Venezuela Purchases a Million Intel Classmates

An anonymous reader submits news of the million-laptop order from Venezuela of Intel's version of the kid-friendly laptop. The computers are produced in Portugal. "The machines, rebranded 'Magellan,' will also come with Linux pre-installed as opposed to Windows XP. This order alone is 50% bigger than the entire OLPC project has managed to sell worldwide."

Comments

Do the laptops come with cameras?

[Centurix]

If so, maybe give one to Miss Venezuela? I'd guess her IM nick would be WorldPeace69...

lolwut

[Anonymous Coward]

So now OLPC comes with windoze and classmates come with Linux? o_O

Tables have turned I gather!

Re:lolwut

[aliquis]

And 2008 is the year of the Linux third world notebook / Linux desktop for children!?!

Re:lolwut

[DrSkwid]

> The machines, rebranded 'Magellan,' will also come with Linux

I tracked down an attribution - with pictures of the device

"This is effectively a second-generation Classmate PC, and integrates a Celeron ULV part and uses Linux, although down the line it is expected to migrate to a fully Atom-based system with a "lighter version of Windows" (whatever that is)."

The Portuguese have also bought 500,000 of the same devices.

Re:lolwut

[Cyclops]

No, they don't. The government assured JP SÃ Couto that they would buy at least 500.000 units.

BTW, JP SÃ Couto was one of the companies that added to the shameful situation in Portugal about Microsoft's OOXML, by only showing up to vote in favour like a good lapdog partner.

This could perhaps be best viewed like a nice reward...

The benefits of not ordering with Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Why order them with Windows when you can just install bootleg copies for free before deploy. You save money,thumb your nose at capitalism and your students gain valuable experience learning to make the OS work firsthand

Re:The benefits of not ordering with Windows

[lysergic.acid]

rational people make rational choices. his socialist stance probably has something to do with his choosing an open source OS based on its merits. i mean, he had no problem ordering laptops from Intel. so i don't think he was trying to make a political statement with this purchase.

and in the interviews i've watched of Chavez, he comes off as a surprisingly intelligent person--i had no idea national leaders could be like that.

Re:The benefits of not ordering with Windows

[MrNaz]

The ironic thing is that Chavez is actually a good leader and a very intelligent person, while the western media does its best to make him look foolish. Bush has the mental capacity of a ball peen hammer, but the western media does its best to make him look smart.

Re:The benefits of not ordering with Windows

[introspekt.i]

and in the interviews i've watched of Chavez, he comes off as a surprisingly intelligent person--i had no idea national leaders could be like that.

Funny, I've watched some interviews of him, too. I think he sounds stark raving mad. I had no idea national leaders could be like that, either. XD

Re:The benefits of not ordering with Windows

[puto]

As someone who has relatives in Venezuela, and who has been there before and after the Chavez regime. He is hardly a good leader. Crowd control with rubber bullets and Cuban interregators for those who choose to protest, again that makes a good leader? I was born in the US but have lived in several south american countries. I hold citizen ship in Colombia and Panama due to family ties. Venezuela is much worse for the wear than it was 10 years ago. Chavez funds Farc in Colombia, and as someone who has been on his knees, assault rifle at his head, explaing why he spoke spanish with an american accent, I cannot say anything good about the man, or his peers. Colombia is taking a stand against the guerillas, they are bringing themselves up, and Chavez does not want to have his people see prosperity in democracy when it is right next door. Go to both countries, and tell who is better off.

Re:The benefits of not ordering with Windows

[lysergic.acid]

well, the wealthy minority may have enjoyed more privileges under the rule of his predecessors, but the majority of Venezuelans are not the ones driving in mercedes or bmws and banging pots and pans in the streets of their upper class suburban neighborhoods.

it's almost farcical watching the anti-Chavez protesters wearing their Gucci sunglasses as they denounce the first leader in Venezuelan history to actually act in the interest of the lower-class majority rather than simply marginalize the poor to cater to the rich.

Chavez should be praised if on for nationalizing the nation's oil resources so that oil profits actually go towards helping the impoverished native citizens rather than line the pockets of overseas oil companies--which is why he's so unpopular in the U.S.--not to mention the fact that literacy rates have increased significantly since his progressive reforms began, and he actually allowed the Venezuelan people to draft their own constitution via mass referendum. and, yes, buying up unused land from the rich and redistributing it amongst the poor to set up food co-ops to feed the local community is such a terrible thing to do. god forbid Venezuelan people actually get to eat.

but maybe he should adopt the American model and simply lock up the poor, or let them die from lack of health care.

Re:The benefits of not ordering with Windows

[Grishnakh]

but maybe he should adopt the American model and simply lock up the poor, or let them die from lack of health care.

I'm not disagreeing with you about Venezuela's reforms (I really don't know much about the country to be honest), but the above is definitely not the "American model". Poor people here live pretty long lives, and get plenty of healthcare. Unlike normal people, who go to the doctor when they might have a problem, and have to pay via insurance and co-pays, poor people (especially illegal immigrants) go to the ER whenever they have a problem, and get their care for free at the cost of the taxpayer and high hospital bills for everyone else. Obviously, this is a pretty big problem, and I don't really know the solution for it, but to say we let poor people die from lack of healthcare is completely wrong and dishonest.

As for locking them up, many poor people commit crimes, unsurprisingly, so they go to prison. Of course, with the highest per-capita incarceration rate in the world, we're definitely doing something wrong. Personally, I think all non-violent drug offenders should go free and just get a ticket (and marijuana should be legalized); this would go a long way to relieving pressure on our prisons and court systems, as the War on (Some) Drugs is an utter failure, just like Prohibition was an utter failure nearly a century ago. But to say that poor people are being locked up through no fault of their own is also completely wrong and dishonest. They're committing crimes to get there, and these crimes (even the drug offenses, unfortunately) are crimes in most other countries as well, so it's not like we're criminalizing things which are legal everywhere else.

Re:The benefits of not ordering with Windows

[Walkingshark]

god forbid Venezuelan people actually get to eat.

Ever since his price controls went into effect, certain staple foods have become harder and harder to find. Milk is hit or miss, same with eggs and the like. Hugo is a weird case, he seems to be trying to do some good things, but unfortunately his actions are based on a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature and economics, much in the same way that opposite end of the spectrum small government no-regulation types do.

Re:The benefits of not ordering with Windows

[Gavagai80]

I think he sounds stark raving mad. I had no idea national leaders could be like that

You must not have seen a national leader before. Most of them are like that.

Re:The benefits of not ordering with Windows

[rtb61]

The most pathetic thing about all this, is the total failure of the current US administration in every area it gets involved in. Take those world leader meetings between the hockey puck mom running mate and, those pathetic sock puppet governments.

Columbia it's drug problems and it is all the surrounding countries fault not the fault of US administration who is in charge, Iraq and it's terrorists problems and it is the surrounding countries fault and not the fault US administration who is in charge, Georgia and it's premeditated murder of sanctioned peace keepers and it is the surrounding countries fault and not the fault of the current US administration who is in charge.

Those three set piece publicity stunts where a damning indictment of the current US administration's corruption and incompetence. The only world (what a joke) leaders willing to be so shamefully used in a third rate publicity stunt, an embarrassment to themselves and their countries and to the US government.

Venezuela's efforts in advancing their technological adoption and bridging the digital divide is commendable and could only be improved upon by working with their neighbouring countries to create local ODM facilities so rather than buying in the technology, as much as possible is manufactured locally this of course would partner well with their likely contributions to FOSS software that are bound to result from their adoption of it.

Made up or unsourced quotes?

[1u3hr]

This paragraph in the submission:

"The machines, rebranded 'Magellan,' will also come with Linux pre-installed as opposed to Windows XP. This order alone is 50% bigger than the entire OLPC project has managed to sell worldwide."

But despite the quotemarks, this is NOT in TFA. No mention of Linux, or the name "Magellan". Hopefully the anonymous submitter didn't just make it up, it would be nice the source was cited. We all know how carefully Slashdot is in vetting its articles, after all, so I'm sure it's all verifiable.

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[zeraeiro]

Part is true. I'm from Portugal and all over the media you hear everyday everywhere "The first Portuguese computer ever made (...)". They don't even mention it's a Intel Classmate. http://ww1.rtp.pt/noticias/index.php?headline=98&visual=25&article=356756&tema=29 Not sure about the scale of the order in comparison to OLPC.

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[The Dotmeister]

Actually the name isn't "Magellan" but "Magalhães", and it dual boots (at least in Portugal) Windows XP and Linux CaixaMágica (a portuguese distro) as you can see here http://www.eescolinha.gov.pt/equipamento.html.
It's being sold to kids in primary school for 50 euros and it comes with an option for mobile internet, which you can buy from mobile carriers. If you're not a primary school student, well you've got to pay 285 euros for one.

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[Anonymous Coward]

The name has been translated, the portuguese name is "Magalhaes" (actually there should be a "~" above the second "a", but when I post it looks strange, damn language coding confusions).

There are news here http://waterseven.universebox.com/?p=128, here http://sol.sapo.pt/PaginaInicial/Economia/Interior.aspx?content_id=109149 and here http://www.correiomanha.pt/noticia.aspx?contentid=604E90A9-501B-4A0B-AB89-67561B30D7B1&channelid=00000011-0000-0000-0000-000000000011.

All in portuguese. You can try to autotranslate and become even more confused.

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[weetabeex]

Indeed, Intel Classmate was rebranded 'Magellan' in Portugal for some government funded laptops for students. I wonder if it really will be rebranded the same in Venezuela.

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[Chemicalscum]

Here we are in Portugese from a Portugese IT site is says that Magellan will be sold to Venezuela with Canaimo Linux installed:

"na Venezuela o sistema operativo Canaima (baseado em Linux)"

http://ciberia.aeiou.pt/?st=10098

Linux is the operating system of the Bolivarian Revolution.

"Canaima is a GNU / Linux distribution based on Debian which is emerging as a solution to meet the needs of end users office of the Venezuelan National Public Administration (APN) and to comply with the presidential decree no. 3.390 sobre el uso de TecnologÃas Libres en la APN. 3390 on the use of Open Technologies in APN."

http://canaima.softwarelibre.gob.ve/

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[blind biker]

It's being sold to kids in primary school for 50 euros and it comes with an option for mobile internet, which you can buy from mobile carriers. If you're not a primary school student, well you've got to pay 285 euros for one.

The little I know about Portuguese culture brings me to expect a lot of these machines will be sold for %= EUR, but not to kids only. There's ways to abuse the system, and I suspect it will be abused.

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[lysergic.acid]

oh c'mon. you don't think if the same deal were offered in the U.S., U.K., or any other western nation that you wouldn't also have people abusing the system?

i mean, 285 euros is pretty affordable for most Americans, but i still see people going into stores to buy these for their "kids" and then just keeping the laptop for themselves. consumers want the best deal possible as well. that's the flip side of capitalism.

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[blind biker]

It's just more likely to happen in Portugal than in Sweden or Finland. I don't know enough about the US to say one way or the other. And in fact, the post you are attacking does not mention anything regarding the US.

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[lysergic.acid]

it doesn't have to. i'm pointing out that you're attributing a universal human trait to the Portuguese people. either you're incredibly naive or just incredibly self deluded. i guarantee it's just as likely to happen in Sweden or Finland or any other nation for that matter as it is to happen in Portugal. the likelihood of people abusing the system for a better deal is 100% in any capitalist country.

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[The Dotmeister]

The little I know about Portuguese culture brings me to expect a lot of these machines will be sold for %= EUR, but not to kids only. There's ways to abuse the system, and I suspect it will be abused.

There's always ways to abuse the system, but as far as I know, to be eligible to buy one for 50 euros you need to go into your kids school, fill a form, wait for verification and then wait for a notice to receive your "Magalhães".

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[blind biker]

I think it's you who is naive, if you think it's just as likely to happen in Sweden or Finland. Your naivity can be explained with lack of knowledge. I have lived in various parts of Europe, and have lived for almost 40 years. And I have seen the level of corruption in southern and eastern europe. I have learned the various cultural traits of the people of Europe. Each has its pros and cons. I just prefer living in Finland, after seeing the rest. A culture that leads to corruption also leads to a weaker economy (which may or may not be important for you) and a general lack of order and accountability. It's really stupid to say that there are no cultural differences between countries, and that those cultural differences don't contribute to certain behavioural patterns - like, for example, gaming the system. I was born in a country where everyone tries to game the system, to screw up his/her fellow. I have seen other countries, seen shades of grey. One can see a lot of stuff, if he/she travels and lives in various places in his/her lifetime, like I did.

But you know what: your kind of delusion is popular around here. A lot of people who are just as naive as you are. So, you're preaching to the choir and perhaps you get kicks out of that. You're still wrong, though. There are differences between cultures, differences conducive to behavioural patterns, whether that fits into your worldview or not.

Re:Made up or unsourced quotes?

[lysergic.acid]

did i say there were no cultural differences? i'm simply saying that the trait you're describing is a universal _human_ trait, not a Portuguese one.

granted, i've never traveled to Europe, but i've traveled to different parts of Asia and spent a significant part of my life outside of the U.S. i've even spent most of childhood adjusting to the cultural differences between Taiwan and the United States. i know very well how different cultural values can affect a society's development. but some things are constant. as much as you'd like to look down on another society for what you perceive as cultural shortcomings, people are generally more alike than they are different. we're just socialized to not see the corruption which goes on in our own society. that is the result of your cultural lens.

some governments are indeed more corrupt than others, but people in capitalist societies possess certain traits regardless of what culture they were raised in. do you honestly think that greed and corruption are distinctly Portuguese characteristics? you don't think Swedish or Finnish CEOs embezzle from their companies or exploit the economic system to their advantage?

political title - now make it work

[xzvf]

Technology in education has a great deal of potential when you put a computer in each kids hands. The important part is ~$300 million is being spent on hardware. How much will the national government spend on infrastructure that will make it a success. Teacher training and lesson plans, maintenance and support, internet access.... It could be political, your kid now has a computer, but I doubt it will be a success as an educational tool without spending another chunk of money on making it work. By the way OLPC is the reason the classmate exists, and while some zealots will be angry that it isn't their piece of hardware, the real supporters of the OLPC project's mission will be happy to hear this.

Re:political title - now make it work

[QuantumG]

Kids don't need teachers.

OLPC

[Eukariote]

This order alone is 50% bigger than the entire OLPC project has managed to sell worldwide.

And guess who is to blame for OLPC failing to gain much traction? http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4472654.ece Yes, Intel mostly. Can't allow there to be so many AMD chips out there...

Magellan computers make me sick

[Anonymous Coward]

As a Portuguese concerned about the education of the young and concerned about the economy, I must that these Magellan computers (named after Ferdinand Magellan, a very famous portuguese maritime explorer) are nothing but a huge scam based on portuguese tax holders. We are talking about a 900 MHz refurbished Intel Classmate PC that is both ugly, heavy, and marketed as "built in Portugal", which is _not_! And the choice of operating systems is appalling! We can either stick with Window XP or Caixa Mágica, a portuguese GNU/Linux distribution that is horribly produced, horrible to use, horrible to maintain, but thrown around at every state sponsored GNU/Linux deployment. No wonder people dislike GNU/Linux after using Caixa Mágica...

Re:Magellan computers make me sick

[aussie_a]

, I must that these Magellan computers (named after Ferdinand Magellan, a very famous portuguese maritime explorer)

Yeah we all know who he is. There's a Civilization Wonder named after him (Magellen's Expedition, increases the amount ships can move per turn).

Re:Magellan computers make me sick

[SL Baur]

You probably don't know, but the current government offers these computers to kids in elementary school (those from low income families) as also some other conventional laptops (read: 500USD laptops) to kids in medium and high school.
But the truth is that year after year, kids get more stupid.

You can blame some of that on television, the rest of it on poor education one way or another.

The most valuable education I ever got was sitting down with a friend in HS to write a development system. I wrote the editor, he wrote the assembler (and later rewrote the editor in assembly language instead of binary patching with the Apple "mini-assembler").

I would not want to sit down in front of one of today's computers and learn the assembly language via a data sheet like I did with the 6502. In some ways, our technology has gotten backwards and "advances" in programming haven't been.

Re:Magellan computers make me sick

[fireboy1919]

I know for a different reason.

All the best stuff I know I learned from cartoons.

Turns out that I'd never heard "Get Along, Little Doggie" before that, either.

Re:Magellan computers make me sick

[fsmunoz]

Hello,

While I disagree with the usefulness of this programme as stated I have some comments on your remarks:

"We are talking about a 900 MHz refurbished Intel Classmate PC that is both ugly, heavy, and marketed as "built in Portugal", which is _not_!"

They are partially made in Portugal, which is better than not made in Portugal at all - from a Government POV companies that develop and build here should be favoured, and I agree. As for the ugly and heavy, so is the OLPC and pretty much every laptop in the segment, they're ultimate value is utilitarian.

"And the choice of operating systems is appalling! We can either stick with Window XP or Caixa Mágica, a portuguese GNU/Linux distribution that is horribly produced, horrible to use, horrible to maintain, but thrown around at every state sponsored GNU/Linux deployment. No wonder people dislike GNU/Linux after using Caixa Mágica..."

I disagree with your descrition. Instead of a Portuguese distribution that has been developed for years now and to some extent commercially successful and fully localised - not only language-wise but also in terms of local available ISPs and other peculiarities - they should have used something else? Like, let me guess, Ubuntu - which seems what everyone and their dog propose nowadays whenever they hear that something else is available?

This is exactly part of the reason why GNU/Linux user distributions more often then not fail when bundled: there is always a distro-du-jour that describes the one included as "horrible", and people just say "Fuck *this*, if even Linux users say this is braindead [because it uses apt/yum/emerge instead of yum/emerge/apt and other really life-defining stuff] I will just use Windows". Which, more often than not, they do.

Re:quick, bomb them

[jacquesm]

Funny you should say that, no Canada is actually pretty good, I've lived there for 5 years, I know lots of Aussies and just visited England and Scotland a couple of weeks ago. And I met some really nice people there.

There is really nothing wrong with any of these countries, it's their governments that get it very much wrong a disturbingly large amount of the times that they make decisions.

The 'genocide in your backyard' portion of your comment somewhat puzzles me, but I'm sure you will enlighten me as to what it was you meant. My backyard is rather small (all of 1500 square meters) and I'm pretty sure I would have spotted a genocide taking place there. Even a single murder would probably stand out quite clearly.

Whether Russia is 'ok' or not is really not something I can comment on, I've never been there (up to the Polish-Russian border but not to the other side), I just said that Russia has a pretty strong maths and programming tradition but that not much of it made it across the border.

I would like to bet with you that I've spent more time travelling and living abroad than you have and so will ignore your 'get out of your basement' comment.

Also, uid's are free so if you want to be taken a little more serious I suggest you get one and log in.

Thank you for taking such a disproportionate interest in my posting history.

Depends on the intelligence of the kid

[burnitdown]

Technology in education has a great deal of potential when you put a computer in each kids hands.

Computers don't change the intelligence of kids, but they may help their motivation.

You cannot educate a congenital idiot into being a genius. You can make him flip burgers faster however.

I think people are hoping that buying computers for kids is the "magic bullet" to somehow turn them all into middle-class level performers.

No scientific evidence exists that shows that will work.

Some useful research:

* The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature, by Stephen Pinker -- proves beyond a doubt that intelligence and personality are almost exclusively heritable.

* The Bell Curve, by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray -- although the portion about race attracted the most media attention, the real point of the book is that intelligence in populations follows a distribution curve so that only a few are actually all that smart.

You can see why people go into "cognitive dissonance" when they see this evidence. We all like to think we can be anyone we want to be. But just like few are as handsome as Paul Newman, few are smart enough to achieve the kind of results that are desired.

Just as only one out of 100,000 has the talent to be an engineer or an acrobat, only a few are those truly capable of managing the matters of a nation or mankind as a whole.
Pentti Linkola

Re:Depends on the intelligence of the kid

[Collapsing Empire]

Here is a modest proposal:

The races may not be equal because different races represent different sub-evolutionary strategies of human groups who moved to different parts of the world long ago. Each race has capabilities that represent adaptation to a particular environment.

If we get away from a discussion of saying one race is inferior or superior to the other, can we have an objective discussion on these differences?

A lot of the modern science regarding racial differences has come to the conclusion that Jews and East Asians have the highest intelligence, so its not some sort of "nazi" type propaganda. Some of us just want to have honest discussions rather than emotion-laden ones that this thread invariably degenerates to. I'm not even Jewish or Asian, yet this topic is fascinating to me.

Why can't y'all just step away from your ego and emotionalism and have a talk?

That's capitalism

[burnitdown]

Can't allow there to be so many AMD chips out there...

That's fair play under the rules of capitalism.

And if we want "freedom," we probably don't want a whole bunch of rules about what's fair play.

Then again, maybe we can do better than a capitalist system.

Re:That's capitalism

[aurispector]

The OLPC is a nice toy and Negroponte gets credit for creating the netbook category, but that's it. Face it, the hardware is slow and not really special - oops sorry, the case has pretty kiddie colors. You could make the case that the OS is something new, but I don't see a huge clamor to bring it into every classroom everywhere. My kids use whatever OS is put in front of them. They take a while to find how to do stuff, then they do it. Where's the demand for the OLPC? They want to put nonstandard hardware and software in the hands of kid's in the 3rd world. Apparently, Secretaries of Education everywhere are scratching their heads wondering why they would put their kids on a different track than the rest of the world. And somewhere down the road the kids would have to be retrained to use standard PC's. Why?

The OLPC project should return to it's original vision of giving one laptop per child and get out of the hardware & software market. Change the mission to helping fund computer acquisitions. If they took all the money they wasted on hardware and software development they could have put more laptops out there by now.

OLPC is a classic example of why the market is better at developing and bringing products to market - better, faster, cheaper. Don't put the blame on Intel.

Re:That's capitalism

[KGIII]

There are a lot of unproven beliefs here on /. and one of them is the belief in a utopia created by a free market. It is commonly supported here. Then someone comes along and finds that it isn't doing what they want and they'll say it is corruption, bribing, etc... They do this without any evidence to support their statements. Much like they believe in this fictional market as a cure.

What they forget is that we're humans and those genes haven't been removed yet and probably won't. Self preservation and greed are short term goals that are a part of who we are. The true irony is when they come and say that they're "naturalists" (as has been done before here) and completely ignore the fact that being natural means being true to your genetics, being things like an omnivore, and having the instincts to gather all you can in case lean times are in the future.

It is as if they think we've reached *the* high point which is odd because they seem to believe in evolution. The belief is that they have the answers now, don't need to substantiate them, and then go on to ignore much of what they claim to believe in.

The sad truth is that we're here for a short time and if we kill off a huge percentage of the population both the environment and the resulting changes in our species or learning would certainly better us as a whole. The claim is that people don't think long-term enough. The reality is that those who claim to think in advance are only being very short term thinkers as far as the scope of existence.

Re:That's capitalism

[PaintyThePirate]

Since when was an x86 cpu and linux "nonstandard hardware and software?" I'm going to assume you've never actually used an XO.

The hardware is "special" for several reasons. Mesh networking mitigates the lack of networking infrastructure in most of the places these are getting deployed. The absurdly high resolution screen also supports dropping into transflective grayscale for use in sunlight. Under normal load, it pulls around 4w, and goes below 1w in ebook mode (cpu, wifi, and backlight off). Of course, theres also the sealed keyboard, rugged design with no moving parts, LiFePO4 battery, security LEDs on the webcam and microphone, and so on. All of these things add up to show the key difference between the XO and the Classmate. The Classmate is a laptop made as cheaply as possible; the XO was designed from the ground up for education in the developing world.

You've also contradicted yourself about the software. On one hand, you say kids will figure out how to use whatever is on front of them, but then it must be some huge effort to retrain kids to use Windows down the line? Beyond the obvious contradiction there, you are also assuming that the XO exists to teach kids how to use computers. That is a secondary goal at most. The goal is to provide educational tools. I agree that Sugar is far from perfect, but it is improving every day. (And I mean that literally, the development builds seem to be released on a daily basis). The OS was designed largely to maximize the benefit of networking for collaboration. Pretty much anything that exists on one laptop, from Activities to content, to specific sessions done in an Activity can be shared with other XOs on the network. In addition, many Activities allow for multiple kids to be using it cooperatively.

Regardless, politics seems to come into play more than the merits of either program in bulk orders like this. In this case, Venezuela would much rather make friends with the Portuguese government than an American non-profit.

Classmate, Magellan, Venezuela and Portugal

[lejerdemayn]

Even though TFA doesn't mention it, it's true that the computer being sold is called Magellan. It's basically a rename of Intel Classmate, with 1/3 of it being produced in Portugal. It was launched a few days ago over here (Portugal). The computer is being given (almost free) to kids in the 5th grade, and sold to the public for ~285 euros. Imo, it's just sad to see what I believe is a waste of public funds! First, the government is pouring cash into Intel's pocket for a sub-product, when it could've allied itself with the OLPC. Second, they think that by throwing fishing sticks at people, they'll learn how to fish. The computers will most likely be used for IM (MSN), social network (hi5) and warez. As for this deal with Venezuela, Chavez and Socrates (portuguese prime minister) are having some deals, and this is just another one. Portugal also has a huge community in Venezuela (around 1 million iirc).

Re:quick, bomb them

[PopeRatzo]

Also, uid's are free

What does birth control have to do with this?

Chavez!

[saterdaies]

Damn right-wing reactionaries and their mega-corporations! When will they realize that they should be purchasing from friendly non-profits like OLPC. I say we all move to Venezuela and start a socialist revolution!

Good for Venezuela

[damburger]

Although its popular on both left and right to demonise Chavez, I think his rule will have a long term positive effect. Regardless of the current state of Venezuela, the Missions he created are contributing to a healthier and better educated population which is the foundation of future success.

I predict he will be out in a few years, and Venezuela will continue on a roughly social democratic route. The idea that he is turning it into another Cuba is just absurd hysterical screeching from the elite he has pissed off by treating the Venezuelan poor like human beings for a change.

Re:Good for Venezuela

[Zeros]

No, Chavez is trying to make Venezuela like Cuba. No poor people in Venezuela are now even worse than they where before. Anyone that thinks Chavez is doing something good has definitely never lived there. (I'm Venezuelan and middle class). I know defending Chavez has become cool among some people but no, he is a horrible human being that is doing MUCH MUCH worse damage than bush did in this 8 years.

Re:Good for Venezuela

[Anonymous Coward]

With a bit of help from petropolitics any idiot like Chavez can become popular.

Bush couldn't.

Re:Good for Venezuela

[Toll_Free]

lol.

That's pretty much how everyone was viewing Castro in the 'early days'.

Socialism is screwed, US isn't a democracy. You might be right in that Chavez might be out in a few years, but I highly doubt his "legacy" will be a good one.

Just because he is putting missions out in the field and educating the general populace in his ideals doesn't mean he isn't brainwashing them and / or leading them to the future revolucion (spelling intentional) against the tyrannical Norte.

Bin Laden educated his followers, for Crissakes.

--Toll_Free

Re:Good for Venezuela

[damburger]

I have no evidence you are from Venezuela. I have no evidence of your economic status. I simply have your unsubstantiated statements - and the fact you made the very hysterical comparison I mentioned was being made by the elite of Venezuela. I heard a business owner in Venezuela, with a straight face, compare the current situation to the Bolshevik revolution DESPITE THE FACT HE STILL OWNED HIS BUSINESS. The Venezuelan elite are comically shrill when it comes to complaining about their lost privileges, and you have simply provided an example (if you are indeed Venezuelan at all).

Re:Good for Venezuela

[freddy_dreddy]

Bush is popular, you're just not in his target group

Re:Good for Venezuela

[Colonel Korn]

This conversation is being derailed, I am venezuelan and you cant prove i am not. In fact why the hell would i lie about that?

You could point out that your posting record, easily available with a single mouse click, obviously shows you at least have a deep interest in Venezuela along with a lot of demonstrated knowledge about it.

People have difficulty dealing with Chavez in the "western world." The man is obviously intentionally antagonistic, which understandably leads to a lot of people, even those who might normally be more moderate, seeing him as the devil incarnate, or at least incredibly annoying. The extreme level of this response leads opponents of cultural and economic imperialism to take a rather extreme response in opposition. They genuinely think Chavez is a wonderful leader, ignoring corruption, torture, etc. There are several posts here today responding to Chavez's torture record (hey, just like we have in the good ol' US of A) by saying it's okay, because he's torturing business owners and such, who are obviously the scum of the Earth.

My tentative perspective is that Chavez really is an improvement, economically, for a lot of the people in the country, but that this is only because predecessors were particularly bad. If a man like Chavez were suddenly made the effective dictator of the UK, he'd be seen as the worst tyrant in two hundred years.

Re:Good for Venezuela

[Alioth]

No, Chavez has aspirations of dictatorship. You can now go to jail for over 3 years for simply saying 'Chavez is a crank' in Venezuela. He's cracking down on freedom of speech, and his hobby of trying to provoke the United States has turned from an amusing hobby to a bogeyman to blame everything on. When he silences a political opponent, he simply says the opponent was an agent of the United States and throws them out of the country or jails them.

Chavez might once have had promise for doing something great for Venezuela. However, sadly, he's now sliding towards dictatorship with all that implies (i.e. doing only things that will keep him in power).

Re:Year after year, kids get more stupid.

[edsousa]

Mostly, lack of education.
Moral education at home, and not demanding work from the students. Its lot alike to the US "No Child Left Behind". To give you an example:
A colleague of mine taught some years in high school and was dismissed because he was being to hard with kids. He demanded one kid to solve "1000/100" without the calculator. She couldn't.

Actually, this source is well-regarded

[burnitdown]

"The Bell Curve"? Are you fucking kidding me? Where do you get your reading list, the Josef Mengele Book Club?

Godwin's law in action: if you can't beat 'em, call them fascists.

The Bell Curve is still widely regarded as the definitive tome on an unpopular but valid scientific pursuit. Why are you trying to censor science for your personal preferences of what you think reality should be? What are you afraid of?

It's the new Scopes trial: can you accept thinkers like Pinker or Herrnstein/Murray, or must we find some way to shut science out of the debate?

My statements reflect Pinker's thesis

[burnitdown]

But you know what. I am inclined to agree with Pinker but it's absolute statements like these that discredit him.

And the Bell Curve has not only been criticized for racism but also methodology.

I wouldn't consider him "popular science," since he uses hard science in the book and his research is about anything but a popular topic.

Stephen Pinker: Research

The entire point of his book is that intelligence and personality are heritable, in contrast to the "blank slate" theory which suggests human beings can be shaped or educated into having certain intelligence and personality traits.

Every book has been criticized for its methodology. Criticism alone debunks nothing. Do you have a valid counterargument, or are you just trying to insult away the problem?

Re:quick, bomb them

[KGIII]

I'm not sure what country you are hailing from but it is IUD. Intra-uterine device.

gotta like a bit of source

[DrSkwid]

The official details on the BOM state the computer costs 180 to manufacture, although a source told us 369 total

Re:quick, bomb them

[jacquesm]

And your post history includes all kinds of weird stuff about frosty piss, goatse and the GNAA, but by not mentioning it here, I'm sure no mod will ever look it up. I guess I should have expected that.