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UK UFO Sightings Declassified, Still No Intergalactic Relations

schwit1 is just one of the massive flood of readers (and publications) writing to tell us about the recently declassified UK Ministry of Defense account of a supposed UFO sighting. Included are nineteen sightings between 1986 and 1992, with the most notable being a sighting in 1991 with a US Air Force pilot's first-hand account. Not that this lends an air of credibility to anything, just more papers with more words. "Almost 200 such files will be made available by the MoD over the next four years. [...] UFO expert and journalism lecturer at Sheffield Hallam University, Dr David Clarke, said the documents would shed new light on relatively little-known sightings. He said some conspiracy theorists would already have decided that the release of the papers was a 'whitewash.' He added: 'Because the subject is bedevilled by charlatans and lunatics, it is career suicide to have your name associated with UFOs, which is a real pity. The National Archives are doing a fantastic job here. Everyone brings their own interpretation. Now you can look at the actual primary material — the stuff coming into the MoD every day — and make your own mind up.'"

41 of 319 comments (clear)

  1. And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The U.S. government weren't trying to cover up aliens at places like Roswell, they were covering up their secret spy aircraft. Why do you think most of these "UFO cover-ups" involved strange craft spotted near isolated air force bases at the height of the Cold War? Project Blue Book wasn't about little green men, it was about making sure no one had gotten a good look at their latest prototype stealth planes and also checking to see if any hillbillies might have actually spotted any Soviet spy planes in the area.

    No alien civilization is expending the mammoth amount of resources needed to traverse the vast distances of interstellar space just to stick a probe up your ass. Deal with it.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No alien civilization is expending the mammoth amount of resources needed to traverse the vast distances of interstellar space just to stick a probe up your ass. Deal with it.

      Joyriding teenagers at faster than light travel certainly might think it worth their while.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by Jonny_eh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not impossible that we're being secretly monitored by aliens that don't want to be seen, yet are seen by drunks and paranoidians anyways. It's just that rational thinking people are skeptical. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, and all that.

    3. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, it's possible. It's also possible that unicorns are real, and are just really good at hiding.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    4. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by Jonny_eh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Given that honestly witnessing such an event would be such an extraordinary thing, it just follows that a multitude of copy-cats would chime in with fake reports after hearing about it.

      What about a third, more reasonable, explanation for UFO reports? People see things in the sky they don't understand. i.e. it's something natural, not an alien, yet because they think it's an alien, it becomes an extraordinary experience.

      Every case that has enough data, ends up having a mundane explanation.

    5. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by Jonny_eh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about the possibility that sightings were of natural phenomena? i.e. not made by the pentagon, or humans?

      What about lights in the skies created by civilians?

      Don't commit the false dichotomy fallacy of assuming there are two options, and if one is false, the other is automatically true. There can be other options!

    6. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I consider myself kind of a "UFO skeptic", yet not willing to accept that ALL of it is bogus either.

      You're not a very good skeptic, are you? Find something else to consider yourself.

    7. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The U.S. Air Force in 1947 (at that time still party of the Army) had just begun the first two of many programs (Project Mogul and Project Moby Dick) that would involve floating high altitude balloons over the Soviet Union to listen to and photograph military and industrial facilities (remember, this was before satellites and high altitude reconnaissance aircraft like the U-2), mostly to keep an eye on Soviet atomic aspirations. If the Soviets caught wind of this, so soon after WWII, it would have caused a major international incident and ratcheted up Cold war tensions (which were already high enough in the face of the establishment of the iron curtain). So when one of these things went down in Roswell, you bet your ass they wanted to shut people up about it.

      Little did they realize that their efforts to shut people up about what they saw would ultimately provide the perfect cover (leading people to assume they were covering up aliens rather than the secret spy programs they were REALLY covering up).

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    8. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by R2.0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Why is the possibility of of earth being observed by alien xenobiologists and xenoanthropologists always immediately dismissed? It certainly falls within the realm of possible when compared against our current understanding of physics."

      I am perfectly willing to believe in alien observers - just give me proof that isn't easily explained by something else that is far more simple. Look up Occam's Razor.

      Of course, if William of Ockham was actually an alien planted to mislead the human community for generations, that would be a different story.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    9. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by UID30 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I present as evidence ... Meat

      --
      "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte
    10. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by afabbro · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well then, you will have to explain why you can see flying saucers on medieval paintings,

      Of course, you can also see the earth opening up and demons dragging people down to hell in medieval paintings.

      Hell, in ancient Egyptian art, there are humans with falcon heads. If that doesn't smash theories of evolution all to hell...

      --
      Advice: on VPS providers
    11. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by Plekto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow. I've read hundreds of doomsday and off the wall ideas over the years, but this one is by far one of the most entertaining conspiracy theories that I've heard. Truly tinfoil-hat time.

      That said, it's pretty clear that there are some incidents that look to be legitimate mixed in with all of the various piles of other junk. What they are, though... that's a whole other discussion. It's far more likely that they are actually the results of various secret programs. Doubly so since most "sightings" take place near military bases.

      And even *if* they were aliens and they did exist, it's still not going to fix our economy, make gas cost $2 a gallon, or even take out the trash. Life goes on, and there's a zillion things to deal with and fix that are more important.

    12. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by johnlcallaway · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's an unidentified object. Just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean it's an alien spacecraft.

      Just because it can't be explained, doesn't mean it's an alien spacecraft.

      When someone produces some real evidence instead of 'I don't know what this is, so it must be an alien spacecraft', I'll pay more attention.

      --
      I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    13. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by Baton+Rogue · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and about 1,000 other possible explanations that are all much more reasonable than intergalactic alien visitors traveling almost incomprehensibility vast intergalactic distances only to buzz our aircrafts and probe our hillbillies.

      Just because the distance is incomprehensible to us, doesn't mean that it is to other alien races. To an ant in Africa, people flying 10,000 miles to study them would be incomprehensible (and yes, I know that ants have no idea what distance is, but it's an example).

    14. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by bogjobber · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nobody is saying that it's outside the realm of possibility, it's just that there's no proof. People mock UFO believers because their "evidence" consists of crazy government conspiracies and small dots of light appearing on film taken on terrible video equipment, all of which is explained simply and logically (with evidence) by other hypotheses.

      There are several groups that take an objective, scientific approach to the search for extraterrestrial life (NASA, SETI, etc.). Those institutions are well-regarded by the community. It's just the crazy people that are mocked.

    15. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why publicize it was just a "weather balloon", yet go to all the apparent trouble to guard it from public view, quickly whisking it away under military guard?

      Because it wasn't just a "weather balloon". It was a balloon sent up to monitor Russian nuclear tests. In the late 40's, that's super-duper top-secret stuff - heck, I can almost imagine that they deliberately covered that program up with stories of a flying saucer crash!

      And there wasn't a whole lot of trouble taken to guard it from public view. A farmer found a bunch of shiny junk, it got picked up, the local paper ran a story about it, some joker at the Roswell Army Air Field conflated it with recent stories about "flying discs" and issued a press release. Thirty years later, reports of "rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks" somehow became wreckage of an alien spacecraft.

      The "Witness to Rosell" book published in 2007 lists over 600 people who claim, in some fashion, that it was really some type of UFO that was collected. That's a significant number of people.....

      You can find millions of Americans who claim, in some fashion, that a big bearded guy in the sky created the whole universe just a few thousand years ago, including a garden where he put a man made out of clay who is the ancestor of all of humanity. That's a significant number of people. But numbers don't make a belief sensible.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    16. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by Plekto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow. We're so clever that we couldn't learn anything from aliens?

      (looks around) Given the general lack of intelligence that Humanity seems to be demonstrating, I seriously don't think anything that they would teach us would sink in.

    17. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by Liquidrage · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The world would be no more interesting. It would be the world you've always known, complete with struggles and accomplishments, and highs and lows.

      Plato's cave is really a mathematical proof.

    18. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by Xest · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "1. that there is something unidentified in our airspace. Project Twinkle definitively proves this."

      Yes, roughly as well as the Bible proves god exists.

      The crux of the problem is this, whilst we have UFO sightings world wide the sheer number reported from the US is entirely disproportionate- especially abduction reports.

      The number of reports from the rest of the world simply don't match up to those from the US, statistically it just doesn't make sense unless someone can suggest a valid reason why visitors from another world would be interest mainly in Americans?

      We have people who say they've seen UFOs but we still have no photos that aren't either extremely poor quality or been exposed as hoaxes. This means the reality is we still have no more evidence for UFO visits than we do for the existence of god and the UFO is consistently, as in all your examples provided only as something unprovable "Oh it moved too fast for us to catch", how convenient.

      There's also plenty of room for plausible explanations in many cases too, how can people be so sure Russians don't have aircraft as high tech as proposed by the aurora project, it's not like the Russians are somehow less capable of keeping secrets, with their oppresive regime quite the contrary.

      Even in this newly released report a pretty obvious answer is sitting right in front of us. The incident happened in 1991, the object was brown. What was flying to/from the UK in 1991? British Tornado and Jaguar aircraft to and from Iraq from the first gulf war. The MoD confirmed it wasn't a balloon, a missile, a rocket and nothing more- why in war time would they confirm the flight path of their military jets?

      If we get some evidence that's a little more concrete then great, but whilst UFOs remain as provable as the existence of god in the context given then it really can't be given any more merit than religious belief.

    19. Re:And before you U.S. UFO conspirists chime in... by TheTapani · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Their case really isn't as shoddy as it seems.

      The case of existence is open and shut.

      Every serious investigation on the UFO phenomenon has concluded that they are real (US, Soviet, British, Feench, Mexican, Brazilian miliaries for instance). That is not the issue anymore.

      The issue is to understand what we are seeing. Remember, UFO is not the same as ET. There is no single explanation that could explain the vastly different type of reports. One of the difficulties is that there is no clear border what reports to accept. The cases get continuously more and more wicked and logic defying.

      To give three examples of cases along the scale:
      Easy to accept case (probably an unknown natural phenomenon): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessdalen_light
      Classic case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Tehran_UFO_incident
      "Wicked" case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_sun

  2. Cause & Effect by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it is career suicide to have your name associated with UFOs

    Not career suicide, just a hilariously pointless hobby like squirrel eating ... or Warcraft.

    Something that's always bothered me about Alien sightings and 'abductions' is that the sightings really didn't kick off until 1897 which coincides closely with the release of the War of the Worlds. And, interestingly enough, alien abductions didn't really take off until the 1960s when movies about abductions had been in circulation since the 50s (as any devout MST3K fan knows).

    Aside from a few odd reportings (and maybe a few religions) the above holds true.

    We are human beings, we have awesome imaginations and a multitude of chemicals that effect them. I don't know what it's like to be coked out in an opium den or suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning but I think a lot of UFO stuff is pretty much a direct result of the human psyche, not extraterrestrials.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Cause & Effect by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Something that's always bothered me about Alien sightings and 'abductions' is that the sightings really didn't kick off until 1897

      That's wrong. They were happening before 1897, but instead of "aliens" they were blamed on "angels" "demons" or simply "the gods".

      There are highly detailed accounts of "otherworldly" abductions going back to the Sumerians, who sort of invented language. That's a pretty long time ago.

      I'm not saying that there have ever been real "otherworldly" abductions alien or otherwise, but to say that they started in 1897 is just plain wrong.

      It's amazing that it's taken as obvious that there's no such thing as UFOs (which as many as 80% of Americans believe in) but you'll get modded as flamebait if you suggest that there's no such thing as God (in which about the same number of Americans believe).

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Cause & Effect by plasmacutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Something that's always bothered me about Alien sightings and 'abductions' is that the sightings really didn't kick off until 1897 [wikipedia.org] which coincides closely with the release of the War of the Worlds [wikipedia.org]. And, interestingly enough, alien abductions didn't really take off until the 1960s [wikipedia.org] when movies about abductions had been in circulation [thetriangle.org] since the 50s (as any devout MST3K fan knows).

      Let's not mention the historic accounts of people meeting "gods" and going away with them, ezekiel's wheels within wheels, vimana's, the presence of UFO's in renaissance paintings, etc etc.

      This is called a cargo cult, and similar cults centered around aircraft have been encountered among previously undiscovered tribes in central south america.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    3. Re:Cause & Effect by bogjobber · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I really recommend Carl Sagan's book The Demon-Haunted World. A decent amount of the book is focused on this phenomenon, with several scientific explanations for why people have abduction dreams. There are the obvious ones (a traumatic event that damages your mind, unconsciously covering up abuse, plain old lying) but the mind is capable of some crazy things.

      What many abduction believers are conscious of, but don't really take into account, is that normal people hallucinate all the time. Most people do it every day, although not very vividly. It can be triggered by anything, but it is especially common when you are waking or doing something monotonous and repetitive (such as driving while tired). Everything from tiny daydreams to full out trips are possible if your brain is in a certain state.

      Some people can have vivid hallucinations quite regularly without drugs or anything unusual in their body. When that happens their mind goes to extraordinary things (no one hallucinates about doing their laundry). Little kids see monsters. If you watch sci-fi movies, maybe you'll see aliens. If you spend your time at a hellfire and brimstone church maybe you'll see demons. How many times have you woken up from a dream and it took you a long time to realize that you were awake?

      The scientific method is the only way to examine these things in a neutral way. There's nothing wrong with believing that there might be UFO's. But until there is proof you can't claim that anything extraordinary like that exists. Right now there isn't even crappy evidence, let alone enough to prove something that incredible.

    4. Re:Cause & Effect by gnick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's amazing that it's taken as obvious that there's no such thing as UFOs

      They do exist - I can testify to it personally. I see maybe 2-3 very strange flying things in the sky around Los Alamos, NM per year. Definitely not planes/helicopters and their shape & flight patterns make balloons a strange guess.

      They're flying objects that, at least for me and most (possibly all) of the town, they're unidentified. Now, whether or not they're extraterrestrial as opposed to some weird LANL experiment or hobby object is up for debate. (Los Alamos is full of nerdy hobbyists - LANL/hobbyist seem about equally likely.)

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    5. Re:Cause & Effect by timholman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sorry, but this just doesn't seem very scientific. You obviously experienced something, but you've instantly correlated it to internal factors without any other supporting evidence? Do you frequently succumb to suggestion in this manner, or was this the first time? Have you experienced something due to suggestion since? What, other than your "rigorous education and scientific training" led you to this conclusion?

      I submit that you probably lack the necessary information to support the conclusion that "psychological tricks of one's own brain" were at play here.

      Well, I applied Occam's Razor to what happened. I had two possible explanations:

      (1) Aliens or supernatural beings visited my mother, then visited me. Maybe they were working their way through my family tree?

      (2) My mother's vivid recounting of her experience made a deep impression on me. She was really very concerned about what had happened to her and was more than a little frightened. She really didn't completely calm down until I explained the phenomenon of sleep paralysis to her. I spent a lot of time over the next couple of days thinking about what had happened to her, and reading more about sleep paralysis - and then, boom, I have an episode myself. So yes, I think the power of suggestion was clearly at work.

      Either my mind was playing tricks on me, or aliens (or maybe devils) visited me in my bedroom. So which explanation sounds more plausible to you?

    6. Re:Cause & Effect by Ihmhi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You see strange things really close to a military base where they work on experimental aircraft? Color me shocked.

      I'm a skeptic with most things - even UFOs - but I believe in the possibility very much. I really don't think the conditions for life are so stringent that we are the only sentient beings anywhere in the entire universe, much less the entire galaxy. That's arrogant and ignorant when you consider the full scope of outer space.

      It is very likely that those are just experimental U.S. aircraft, but I admit it's likely that it could be extraterrestrials as well. I mean, wouldn't you want to know the military capabilities of a planet before you went and said hello? That could also explain all of the pilots coming across things - maybe they were testing our fighter jocks. Or, ya know, just fuckin' with us and having a larf.

    7. Re:Cause & Effect by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, I applied Occam's Razor to what happened. I had two possible explanations:

      Why only two?

      Perhaps the fact that this happened to your mother shortly before it happened to you is merely coincidence. Perhaps you inherited a neurological trait from her, once that has nothing to do with the power of suggestion. Perhaps what happened to you was not the same phenomenon at all, and you merely had a "hysterical" belief about such events based on what happened to her. Perhaps this same thing had happened to you before but you just ignored it, forgot about it, but this time paid more attention to it because of her report.

      Nothing personal, but we outside observers also have the possibility that you're lying or delusional - or your mother was lying or delusional.

      Perhaps you were not actually visited by aliens, but just targeted by their telepathic rays from Sirius. Or maybe just telepathic emanations from your neighbor. Perhaps it was neither aliens nor demons, but simply voodoo. Or government mind control experiments.

      As a practical matter, if Almighty Goddess herself came down with a sealed envelope holding The Truth of The Matter and invited me to bet on what it said, yeah, I'd put my money on sleep paralysis influenced by the "power of suggestion". But to say there were only two possible explanations is to overly simplify.

      Always remember that through any finite set of data points, an infinite number of curves can be drawn.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
  3. Choice of words by Dr.+Grabow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "charlatans and lunatics" - what an exquisitely perfect choice of words ...

  4. Proves nothing! by snarfies · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The government is still holding onto the REAL paperwork that shows what they've been hiding all these years! This stuff they're declassifying is just a distraction. ...or so the kooks will be saying shortly, if not already.

  5. Why not by tsa · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Sorry as long as there aren't good and verified explanations for all the UFO sightings out there we can't rule out the existence of alien craft visiting our planet. Having said that, the chances of aliens visiting us is really very small. The first reported UFO sightings are much older than 1897, BTW.

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Why not by thermian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That first link is indeed a bit dodgy, but if you look a bit around you find more articles on the web with references in them that show older sightings than from the 19th century.

      I don't doubt there are. However, its not early sightings of strange things in the sky I take issue with. Rather its the insertion of spurious conclusions without proof, and worse, the hailing of these rather childish idea's as confirmed and reliable sightings.

      I do in fact believe wholeheartedly in the existence of extraterrestrial life. However I do so as a scientist. Therefore I recognize my belief in this regard is totally without proof, and I freely admit this. It is more a hope then a belief in this respect, and one I expect only my descendants will answer.

      I don't however believe in alien visitation on Earth, in fact I disregard such claims completely. Those who do believe such things lack even the most basic grasp of the inconceivable distances involved and the velocities that would be required for such a journey.

      --
      A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
  6. Re:What UFO conspiracy theorists REALLY want by zappepcs · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Personally, I kind of hope these stories are true.. Much preferred to the whack-o magical stuff theists believe, and some big government conspiracy makes much more sense than the thought that all governments all over the world are full of nut-job power hungry ass-wipes.

    sigh... I just read that back, I know there is probably no aliens visiting us... but I rather like that explanation best.

  7. Well said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "Not that this lends an air of credibility to anything, just more papers with more words. " ...spoken like someone who didn't take the time to read the documents before jumping to conclusions. Congratulations on that.

  8. Why don't we have more pictures of UFOs? by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are literally tens-of-millions (if not hundreds of millions) more cameras in the hands of the residents of the planet earth than there were even 15 years ago. Cameras in phones, cameras in purses, cameras in trunks of cars, cameras in PDAs, the list goes on. Most of the cameras also shoot video.

    As a consequence we have many more pictures of police misconduct and celebrity's privates than we ever have in the past, but we have no noticeable increases in the numbers of good UFO pictures (or good sasquatch pics for that matter).

    If the number of UFOs are constant, and there are many more cameras, why aren't we seeing many more pictures flooding the intertubes?

  9. Re:The US has a good UFO detection system by BobMcD · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If anything big enough to be interesting was anywhere near the planet for more than a few hours, it would be noticed.

    And it would probably get written into a classified report, filed away for twenty or thirty years, then released to the public, yes?

  10. Better question: "Why do you think we don't?" by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the number of UFOs are constant, and there are many more cameras, why aren't we seeing many more pictures flooding the intertubes?

    You must look in order to see. --This is always the case when it comes to subjects which do not bear the stamp of, "Official Truth".

    There are actually quite a lot of phone camera UFO pictures. Videos, too. --Many tend to be poorly shot and of low resolution, but that's to be expected given that the objects are photographed with crappy cameras at great distances by untrained people. I expect as resolutions on phone cameras get more powerful, we'll also get better images.

    -FL

  11. Actually it makes sense by voss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Rectal thermometers are standard in hospitals and rectal probes would be safer for the patient and the alien scientist than oral ones.

    Second if youre doing scientific experiments on a primitive population your not going to raid the population center youll grab somone on an outlying settlement. Plus you would figure the rednecks would have interesting diseases to study.

    1. Re:Actually it makes sense by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, I suppose it could be aliens expending vast amounts of energy and traveling across distances that the human mind can't even easily comprehend just to do cursory exams of human biology. But may I also suggest the more radical idea that it's just a bunch of ignorant yahoos mistaking a rape nightmare for an anal probe and interpreting simple sleep paralysis as being held down by aliens?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  12. What about Edgar Mitchell then? by meist3r · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I agree to the assumption that we can't possibly be the only sentient species in the universe and given there were a few million years to evolve why shouldn't have something come up with better ways of generating energy? Not every species is as retarded as ours...

  13. A Moderation Haiku by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The insightful mod
    Although very useful sometimes
    Should not be used now.