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Kentucky Judge Upholds State's Gambling-Domain Grab
JohnHegarty writes "A Kentucky judge has upheld that state's seizure of some of the world's most popular online casino domain names, ruling they constitute a 'gambling device' that is subject to Kentucky's anti-gambling laws." Wasn't it surreal enough on the first round?
Congress upholds right of DHS to confiscate your stuff for 24 hours.
I know, but is anyone surprised. Really, gambling is in that same circle as cigarettes and alcohol. Somehow the states have held on to their rights to exclusive domain over them within their borders whereas they lost about every other regulatory ability to the feds.
WTO maybe? Some world body should laugh them off.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I can't WAIT to see the flood of suits in a friendly Kentucky court for and against all the domain squatters now, based on this ruling. What a mess.
Come to the University of Mars! Classes starting soon!
Basically the judge didn't throw the case out. He is letting it proceed. It's not the wholesale grab of domain names some people want you to believe.
So is it time to update the DNS servers to ignore Kentucky?
There is a war going on for your mind.
Fried Chicken by scratching a lottery ticket and winning $2. I know it's not the same thing, but I felt twice as guilty as normal.
Task Mangler
I have some popcorn in the Microwave.
...is Kentucky now responsible for the casino-spam flooding my inbox? Where can i sue'em?
A man can dream...can't he?
The book Blown to Bits we previously discussed goes into this in some detail but there is a clear, and increasing, problem that legislatures are very far behind the curve on the global nature of the internet. Not only can district courts in the US have a say, potentially, on the content hosted on a server in another country - let alone another state - but it also creates a pressure to host your servers in the country with the most lax laws around content control.
The application of laws designed to deal with print or broadcast media being applied to the internet - where ISPs are neither publishers nor distributors, from a strict legal perspective - is fraught with difficulty.
The application of social laws, like restricting your citizens access to gambling, also has an inherent problem when the social sphere in question is virtual. The law givers reaction often seems to be to target the technology when the social problem is what the law is meant to address.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
What a lie! Freedom so long as it is granted by the state is more like it. I should be able to have a domain name regardless of what it says. And on internet gambling in general, my money is my money, so I should be allowed to gamble with it if I so choose. If the government did its job and was there to protect the people rather to limit them, they would investigate online casinos for fairness and punish those that aren't playing square or if they are offshores, warn consumers about their practices.
Why don't these companies just move their domains to a registrar that doesn't have to follow US law?
wud
Including by The Register. The judge is upholding his own ruling now that the companies that lost their domains get a chance to object. The loss of domains was done under a sealed order.
I can't find any legitimate reason for this to have been done under a sealed order (what were they going to do... hide the domain names), or before arguments were made. Here's hoping this gets fixed when it is actually appealed.
As for the circuit judge, Wingate (heh... like the old proxy software...), I think he's either making a political play to his career, or has a heck of a power complex. Next up, watch him issue an order that takes away my /. account for criticizing him. -.-
SIG: HUP
Every day there's news here about Government trying to control the Internet. China with their great firewall, the UK and their laws, Australia and their version of internet control. Government gets crazy when they sense there's something they can't control. Judges, Senators, Presidents, the whole system.
What makes me sad is that I always thought it'd be harder to 'control' the internet, but it seems they'll do it sooner or later.
Any life is made up of a single moment, the moment in which a man finds out, once and for all, who he is.
Isn't Kentucky where tobacco comes from? Why doesn't a judge in, say, New York state order the seizure of the name Kentucky for poisoning the good people of New York?
It probablyt doesn't really matter. The judge is going to leave office soon and seek a more public office, probably running for the Senate or state governor (this can't be anything but a publicity stunt) and the order will get overturned on appeal.
Why doesn't Slashdot ever get slashdotted?
...5...4...3...2...1 A state judge rules that state officials have the right to take domain names registered elsewhere and belonging to organizations based elsewhere? This one is not staying in the state courts.
"Among other things, the state says online gambling drains the state of money by undermining horse racing, a key tourism industry for the state."
I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
The initial court orders effectively prevent the name from being released from the previous registrar.
The operations in question can, however, create new domains using offshore registrars, but changing a domain name is not a cheap operation.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Some world body should laugh them off.
Ha! At the end of the day your internet connection does have to come to your house and somebody has to install it and the ISPs router in that state. Either the installation company (e.g. Qwest, SBC, Comcast) or the ISP if different have people paid on salary working in your state.
As a condition of doing bussiness the State can have it block or re-route IP addresses as a condition of the ISP doing bussiness in the state.
One can quibble about how the ISPs will be able to block dynamic changes in host IPs, but look if each hour the ISP does a DNS lookup on the domain name then blocks the resolved IP it wil be plenty effective.
That leaves the gambling sites to rely on Proxies, TOR, or constantly changing domain names, all of which will effectively gut their clientele.
The ultimate weapon for the state in this case is that state can legally declare all gambling debts unenforcable. If they allow cost recovery from VISA or Paypal, the gambling sites may not only find they can't do bussiness in Kentucky but that from VISA's point of view they can't do bussiness at all with VISA.
Given the latter death threat I suspect there's going to be cooperation on this at some level.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
All sites should block all of Kentucky. I'm writing a script that will give a "403 - Kentucky, unstable jurisdiction" error for their IPs.
What we need is for a complete blackout of Kentucky in order to cause that judge's world to cave in.
The time will come when the evil of gambling will be prohibited world-wide in a centralized manner, but right now the attempts to fight internet gambling on the scale of Kentukky look heroic, but naive at best.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
So based on that ruling. I am living in the UK but I can not just sue random domains because i can reach them via a domain name.. Sweet.
*nips off to see his lawyer about lawsuits*
So if the state doesn't approve of a radio station can they shut down the transmitter in another state or demand that the station modify all radios to not receive their signal? This falls under violating interstate commerce and KentUHky will likely find itself being forced to reverse by the feds.
So what happens when Utah starts doing the same thing to your porn sites or issuing warrants for people drinking on their *public* MySpace / Facebook pages?
There is a war going on for your mind.
...considering the judge is the guy on the front of the ATV.
that was Indiana...
The banks is where most of the gambling takes place and that not even with their own money, but other peoples money.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Before Kentucky is sanctioned by the WTO?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
And this from the Governor who campaigned on legalizing casino gambling.
So I think alabama should sieze these domains from those bastards in kentucky.
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
Lisa Simpson: But Grandpa, this flag only has 49 stars.
Grandpa: I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I acknowledge Kentucky!
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
...the slashdot collective would be cheering.
The puckered-assed lefties around here want the net as dead as the puckered-ass righties.
I really feel this is just typical of the socialist doctrine that has inundated our country and violated ever tenant this country was created upon. Gambling in all cases is a victimless crime as you have lost only what you have wagered. I'm American and I don't need someone when to tell me to go to bed, what to eat, where to stand, or whether or not I decide to gamble. All of these "notions" of legislation are really the tools of slow-witted bible-thumping scum that would have us give up every freedom we enjoy for THEIR version of right and wrong. I'm sorry, but that's not what this country is about and if you don't like it LEAVE. This country was founded on tolerance and the right to do as you chose provided you aren't harming anyone else. Who am I or anyone else to tell anyone what to do? Where does someone else get that right verses someone else? Screw that judged! I don't care where those domains are located what he's talking about is theft approved by the government and I can't stand by it. Everyone supports the idea of "home rule" in relation to states, but stupid rulings like that make me reconsider someone needs to keep this crap in check. Remember that every ruling like this has a potential to set a precedent and become the basis of federal laws. Honestly, what they are doing is completely unconstitutional; the government has no right to anything of yours regardless of the circumstances unless it is in the case of public use and then you must be properly compensated.
If this goes far enough, there will be threats of action regarding a blatant disregard of international commerce treaties. Seems to me that point came up before when the US tried to shutdown off-shore gambling.
Ah, found it:
http://news.cnet.com/WTO-slams-U.S.-Net-gambling-ban/2100-1030_3-5658636.html
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
The ultimate weapon for the state in this case is that state can legally declare all gambling debts unenforcable.
The state declaring it won't make it so. Gambling debts will still be enforced by large men in very nice suits, who carry heavy objects and know a great deal about the anatomy of the human knee.
If fate makes you a motorcycle, you become a motorcycle.
I can't imagine this case will help matters any...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Indiana House Bill #246
The most famous -- and only known â" case of a state legislature in the US attempting to create by law a new value for pi was that of Indiana in 1897; it has become legendary, and the basis of myth and hoax. Although it has come to represent the occasional ignorance of innumerate legislators, it was not so obviously a bad idea at the time.
The bill was introduced to the house by legislator Mr. Record, but it was reported that "Mr. Record knows nothing of the bill with the exception that he introduced it by request of Dr. Edwin Goodwin of Posey County, who is the author of the demonstration."[3] The bill began in the Committee on Canals (aka the Committee on Swamp Lands), whose chairman tried unsuccessfully to send it to the Committee on Education.
Redefining the value of pi seems not to have been its principal goal, but a side effect. In fact, the bill seems to have offered four different, new values for pi. Rather, the bill was aimed at benefiting its author, who claimed to have patented a new method for "squaring the circle", which he proposed to let the state of Indiana use free of charge if they would pass his bill! Its opening statement is clear:
A bill for an act introducing a new mathematical truth and offered as a contribution to education to be used only by the State of Indiana free of cost by paying any royalties whatever on the same, provided it is accepted and adopted by the official action of the legislature of 1897.
To lend credibility to his claim, Dr. Goodwin gave these credentials:
Section 3. In further proof of the value of the author's proposed contribution to education, and offered as a gift to the State of Indiana, is the fact of his solutions of the trisection of the angle, duplication of the cube and quadrature having been already accepted as contributions to science by the American Mathematical Monthly, the leading exponent of mathematical thought in this country. And be it remembered that these noted problems had been long since given up by scientific bodies as unsolvable mysteries and above man's ability to comprehend.
It seems that Dr. Goodwin had already solved two of the great unsolvable problems of ancient geometry and claimed to have solved a third with his method of squaring the circle.
The bill made it through three readings and votes in the House, and its first reading in the Senate. It was evidently seen as of economical benefit, since Indiana would save royalties on the patent, and the legislators proclaimed themselves unfit to comprehend the details of the bill anyway. The finale was dramatic and down to the wire:[4]
That the bill was killed appears to be a matter of dumb luck rather than the superior education or wisdom of the Senate. It is true that the bill was widely ridiculed in Indiana and other states, but what actually brought about the defeat of the bill is recorded by Prof. C.A. Waldo in an article he wrote for the Proceedings of the Indiana Academy of Science in 1916. The reason he knows is that he happened to be at the State Capitol lobbying for the appropriation of the Indiana Academy of Science, on the day the Housed passed House Bill 246. ... The roll was then called and the bill passed its third and final reading in the lower house. A member then showed the writer [i.e. Waldo] a copy of the bill just passed and asked him if he would like an introduction to the learned doctor, its author. He declined the courtesy with thanks remarking that he was acquainted with as many crazy people as he cared to know. That evening the senators were properly coached and shortly thereafter as it came to its final reading in the upper house they threw out with much merriment the epoch making discovery of the Wise Man from the Pocket.
What if some judge in Iran rules that any websites showing pictures of women without a veil are illegal, and should be taken off the internet ? Would this judge agree to take CNN offline ?
Methinks he is exceeding jurisdiction!
Kentucky has jurisdiction over the global internet. Who knew? Always the guys you least expect, huh?
I guess now I'm glad I moved out here for a job. We can build our own tech sector by just ruling that everybody's computers have to be over here.
Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
That's why we have large men in not-so-fancy uniforms who carry guns.
I just read Slashdot for the articles.
Oh wait, so it is not about some southern Christian social conservative right wing kind of thing to keep people from sin, but all about political pandering and "online gambling drains the state of money by undermining horse racing." ( http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10052137-38.html )
But that's not what they're doing.
They're not rerouting traffic in the state.
They just took the domain names.
As in they can send joe blogs in japan to their own servers when he looks up one of those sites.
Imagine that you ran a mail order buisness, your "domain name" is your postal address.
You live and run your buisness from Iceland say or China.
A judge in an american state decides that you are competing with local buisnesses and signs an order taking your postal address and from then on any post sent from anywhere be it America, Europe or elsewhere will not be sent to you but rather to the judge.
The basis of course being that your postal address is an item required to do illegal buisness with people in an american state.
Clear enough for everyone?
The best solution would be for any registrars outside this juristiction to simply list the correct ownership information for the domains .
that attempting to control the internet also destroys much that is good about the internet. you can't turn the internet into a controlled medium like television without also making it essentially useless for the things that made it useful in the first place
the point is, you really can't warp the internet, you can only kill it. and the absence of the internet is not something people will accept once they get a taste of it
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
on whether gambling will be successfully outlawed worldwide?
and what website can i go to to place a wager on that occurence?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It seems more like a Denial Of Service attack to me.
I didn't quite understand that. Mind putting it in car terms for me?
OK:
The judge runs over your puppy and laughs while pissing out the window on your head.
This makes sense in a way. I mean, really, if the government can't tax it... it's probably illegal.
I really don't think the RIAA need to get involved in this one.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
I know it is hard for some to grasp, but the powers of the US Government are limited. It has no authority to comply with the WTO order.
Who says they're different people?
Everyone has a price.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I'm still confused. When did they get on the Internet in Kentucky. Isn't Kentucky like the boonies where hillbillies and gay cowboys live?
Truly amazing. By that same argument, Calling me on my cell phone from Kentucky makes me virtually present in Kentucky as well.
I hope it won't be long before a higher court calls him an idiot.
By seizing the domain name, the State now owns or controls the domain name. It owns or controls it in the home state, and by virtue of the full faith and credit clause of the U.S. Constitution, it owns or controls it in all the states. This is part one--the acquisition of the right.
Part two--the enforcement of the right--will be very interesting. Destruction of the domain's ability to do business in the home State appears to be a trivial problem. Destruction of the ability to do business in each of the other states is a tedious process, but thanks to the full faith and credit clause, a doable thing.
The dormant Commerce Clause, however, looms over all of this as the big Green Monster looms over Fenway. In short, the several states can't go writing laws that straightjacket interstate commerce. But addressing that question is probably too much trouble for to take for the two or three people that will read this post.
Who will show up after you've already been injured, fail to locate those who did it, and fine you for breaking the state's anti-gambling laws in the first place.
"The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
The general public have uniforms?
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
But at first no one believed there were Internets in Kentucky. Well their pipes are in trouble now.
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
The more I learn about the United States Govenment the more it seems that aside from being able to blow the world off the face of the universe it has very little real power.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
The issue, the core issue, is that the politicians in Kentucky feel compelled to meddle with their citizens' personal choice to indulge in "vice". It might have been argued that it was all about coin, and that the state just wanted their piece of the action, but that is not the approach that they have taken, so we're left with an attempt to just stop it (the evil vice of gambling) entirely. In that, the State of Kentucky is indistiguishable from say, the People's Republic of China (which has adopted a rather more effective means of restricting their citizens' access to to "offensive" content). The Bible Belt butt-heads responsible for this silliness should just face facts and look into building "The Great Firewall of Kentucky".
As a former resident, I can say that this is no surprise. Kentucky is probably one of the most corrupt states in the union. The entire state is governed by old money and the horse racing industry. Every governor in my life time has had a major scandal of some sort. Kentucky is the best argument against States' rights that I can think of. The bridges on Interstate 65 have been being painted for about 8 years now because of the corrupt transportation cabinet forcing various contractors to pay bribes that drove them off from finishing the job.
sitting around drinking coffee and eating donuts.
I believe the issue was largely that it blocked most online gambling but left online bets on horse-racing intact. This was deemed discriminatory. Had the US outlawed all online gambling, it would likely not have been subject to sanction.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
I'll tell you what I REALLY think this is about: They're trying to create the foundations for government censorship of the internet in general. Next step, if this is successful, would be to seize the domains they deem are "damaging to children". Somewhere down the road they seize domains that just plain disagree with or criticize them, like ALL social networking sites. FUCK THAT noise.
And that's a bad thing? Having a weak central government was the original intent. A weak government lacks the power to take your stuff or your liberty.
In this case, since the businesses who own those domains are outside of Kentucky's jurisdiction, the U.S. Supreme Court will declare this decision nullified.
FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
The solution is to refuse all updates to DNS from inside Kentucky on the grounds that they could be compromised.
Are there any major domain name registrars operating in Kentucky? Perhaps when this decision causes them to instantly be unable to do any business at all some sh*t may hit the fan.
I think the key difference is one event physically happens that anyone can watch to verify and the other is digital and has to be taken on blind trust.
But i agree, it is discriminatory. They should have allowed some sort of 3rd party overwatch & tax to authorize specific online gambling sites.
http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
That might be incredibly difficult to do. It would require either that the gambling sites collect SSNs (did they already?), or taxing the profits of companies not actually in the US. But I'm not sure jurisdiction would be there for the IRS to monitor such things, and sanctions might still be brought.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
Let's face it, it only happens because ICANN is a US organization. See if somebody in the UN/WTO member country of Dictatorstan said "hey, Kentucky's allowing people to register motor vehicles online. Registering motor vehicles in foreign countries is illegal for our people. Sue them and claim Kentucky.gov!" if the WHOIS would change that fast.
However, it is illegal to have certain kinds of gambling in Kentucky. This is really no different that running a college betting ring via the telephone number 1-800-Win-Bigg. The courts could sieze your distinctive "1-800-Win-Bigg" number as a an "asset".
FYI, as a former Kentuckian, we have a fairly good internet presence in the larger cities. You might be surprised how many large pipe circuits actually terminate here. I know of several dozen organizations with their own OC3s and at least two "private" OC12s in Louisville. I know of several data center companies and several large (Fortune 100) companies with data centers located in Louisville.
I've been on slashdot so long I'm starting to get out of touch with the cool stuff if it ain't on slashdot.
You forgot to mention its your car and hes re-tuned the radio presets.
I'll be by your feedlot to take what's mine on Tuesday.
"And that's a bad thing? Having a weak central government was the original intent. A weak government lacks the power to take your stuff or your liberty." Really?? Patriot Act, Property confiscation laws....
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
"A weak government lacks the power to take your stuff or your liberty." Really?? Patriot Act, Property confiscation laws...."
He did say 'the original intent' most true conservatives (not neo-conservatives) think thinks like the Patriot act are sham.
Neo-conservatives want to project US power and that cant be done with a weak central government.
American Liberals want the federal government to provide health care, education, cradle to grave hand holding and you cant do that with a weak central government
Either way We the People are getting the short end of the stick..
"Ahh! Arrogance and stupidity in the same package, how efficient of you!" --Londo Molari
FTFA:
"He went on to write that the domain names "are virtual keys for entering and creating virtual casinos from the desktop of a resident in Kentucky. The domain name is indispensable in maintaining the player's continuing access to the virtual casinos which serve as the internet gambling operators premises for conducting illegal gambling activity."
The crime is only committed when a resident uses it. Not just because it's there or potentially there.
Oh, you know Mr. Bertrand "Bat" Patella, too, eh?
"If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" --Voltaire
That's "Innernaits", and sounds like they just got some "ruts" growin' into them thar pipes.
Well there is the silly part of this, some judge rules that gambling is illegal in Kentucky (I will bet that this spreads to other states in the "bible belt") and rules some DNS registration will have to be "surrendered" .. good luck with that. ...This could get interesting and will be a litmus test on weather this is just political BS or a serious effort to have a impact on internet gambling. ..
However it has been pointed out about the legal status of collection of gabbling debts
And if some ruling came out of this that it is not 'collectible', I for one would wonder just what that would really imply. No more VISA usage, I could see how in terms of a credit card that a state might be able to do this but a debit card could be more of a challenge for a state to regulate. I suspect that the judge will not go here, it will just be some silly ruling about DNS, then will be able to say "I did something but the heathens prevented enforcement of it" BTW are judges elected in Kentucky? This could be relevant information
Right, because everything you see in video is totally trustworthy and accurate, just like all that Chinese fireworks footage from the Olympics. We've just about reached the point where technology has rendered video feeds counterfeit-able, even nominally realtime ones. Unless you're standing there in person, or have someone you trust standing there to verify what you saw, there's no way to say for sure that what you've seen is actually what happened.
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
Btw, I think the state is way over the top here and should be smacked down doubly hard. Stupid examples show how stupid this whole idea is.
Stupid Example #1: Another state also seizes the same domain names based on the same reasons. Who gets them?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I'm a member of the PPA and there are positive efforts at a national level to get decent legislation in place for poker.
The argument FOR is that poker is a skill game, not gambling, and as such, should be treated differently than craps, roulette, etc.
Currently, the UIGEA is in place...this being the Unlawful Internet Gaming Enforcement Act that was tacked on to the Port Authority Bill.
It's stupid and short-sighted. If the US would legalize and TAX online poker, the revenues would be in the billions annually.
If you play online poker, check out the PPA; it's doing some good.
I am my own gestalt.
I have an idea why don't you dismantle the police state the US is turning into? The government is not your Mom. If you can't control yourself then you have a crappy life, you earned it. Why should deadbeats get to sluff off their debts because they are weak and stupid? The weak and stupid should not do well due to a rarely seen phenominon called life being fair.
Um, what? That doesn't make any damn sense. I'm assuming this is all in reference to the US bullying of Antigua, specifically through the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, which was passed by Congress. That makes it specifically within the domain of the US government. As a matter of fact, it was the US government that essentially settled the matter "out of court," to use a term our disgustingly litigious society has become so fond of, and the terms of that settlement are held captive by the Bush administration supposedly as a matter of "national security."
So in sum, I have no clue whatsoever what you are thinking when you say the US can't comply with the WTO order. The fact is the US just doesn't WANT to comply with that order. Arguably international treaty, upon which the US loss in this case is based, takes precedence over domestic law (arguably; clearly the Bush administration is not a proponent of the value of international treaties).
wto will not like this and likely will give even more to Antigua and Barbuda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_Museum
I don't need to mention anything else. To hell with all the anti-'ism' crap in today's PC world.
To hell with respecting another religion or point of view, in the face of such blatant and utter garbage.
$27 million dollars, 500,000 visitors, political support... the whole situation is something directly from the warped mind of a retard suffering dementia and who had had a frontal lobotomy by rusty ice-picks.
All of this is in Kentucky. If they are able to be serious with their proposition and execution of such garbage as the above mentioned museum, how the hell can anyone expect anything more sane in any other area?
I wonder if this judge realizes that he's jeopardizing businesses in his own state by doing this. All it would take is for North Dakota to ban horse racing and then poof! there goes kentuckyderby.com.
In this instance, the control is given, not taken. Nobody makes us use a DNS that is ultimately under central (i.e. coercible) control. People choose (though most do it unwittingly) to give power to ICANN to resolve names, and ICANN is unable to resist governments. If you choose otherwise, you can live in an independent (but much smaller) world. It's the trade off of joining society, and you can still opt out, if you want to live a pioneer's life.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
As an NMSR member, I feel that it's incumbent on me to point out that the case of Alabama legislating pi as 3 was a famous April Fool's hoax that still seems to live. The Indiana case was, as you point out, unfortunately real.
http://www.nmsr.org/alabama.htm
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
I don't think this is quite right. The US has an obligation to allow on-line gambling under WTO treaties. The only way to avoid requirements of the WTO treaties is under moral grounds. If you allow any kind of gambling, you can't object to on-line gambling as "immoral".
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Actually, this is just a matter of a judge re-affirming a court order he produced in secret in violation of probably some Kentucky and US laws and also in violation of Judicial ethics. And if you now tell me there are no laws to prevent this, let me direct you to the Bill of Rights paragraph 6, 7, and 8. This was originally a secret ex parte seizure of assets. The defendants never had a chance to defend themselves prior to having those IP addresses taken, and thus had no due process, which is also required.
In my opinion this Judge should be removed from the bench and prosecuted for crimes against the people. But it will never happen.
Unless the registrars of these domains are in Kentucky, the State of Kentucky has no jurisdiction over them and no way to enforce their decision. To paraphrase Andrew Jackson's famous comment, "The State of Kentucky has made its decision. Now, let's see them enforce it."
Good, inexpensive web hosting
The entire time I was in the military I had to endure the Kentucky jokes. Now this has to top everything negative to hit the news outside the state. This blatant disregard of international commerce treaties further enforces Steve Beshear's place as the absolute worst governor Kentucky has ever seen. The federal government needs to step in immediately and slap this idiot down. He's already belittled the people of Kentucky publicly inferring we're a bunch of backwards racists because we supported Clinton over Obama. Now, unhappy with national coverage, he gives us an international black eye. Steve Beshear is a egomaniac on the loose. Someone needs to reign him in.
If nothing else, this is clearly federal jurisdiction since it is international. I truly hope Steve Beshear is run out of Frankfort on a rail before he embarrasses us again.
One can quibble about how the ISPs will be able to block dynamic changes in host IPs, but look if each hour the ISP does a DNS lookup on the domain name then blocks the resolved IP it wil be plenty effective.
Nice new DOS tool you are advocating there !
1. setup gambling site
2. US ISP's block it by resolving dns name every hour.
3. update your gambling site's dns with IP of microsofts activation servers.
4. repeat for more fun.
Of course General Public has uniforms. He's a general, fer cryin' out loud!
Or more likely, credit card companies that don't like people violating contracts. If a state passed such a law, it would likly be blackballed by a good piece of the banking industry.
That's the part where I'm a little puzzled.
The individual states ban gambling often on 'moral' grounds, and it is perfectly legal. I'm wondering if the Federal govt....has the right to tell a state that it has to allow gambling or not? Is membership in the WTO a treaty per se? If so..has it been ratified by the states (sorry, not sure the exact method by which a treaty is passed, I know it generally isn't just a signature by a president).
Personally...I question the ability of the Federal govt. to enter into such 'agreements'..but, then again, I wish for the fed govt. to go back to being small and weak like it is supposed to be Constitutionally, but that's another thread entirely.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Actually...YES!
Many of us believe the Federal govt. really overstepped its bounds on most all of those topics you brought out above...
I do not, for one, believe they have the power to enact most of those acts according tot he limited powers granted the Federal govt. by the Constitution.
Unfortunately, no one seems to care much about that any longer....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
It is worse than that. Germany is already enforcing its laws against Holocaust denial on websites that are not anywhere in Germany. See for example http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/02/secondworldwar.australia where someone who was never in Germany was arrested in Great Britain so they could be extradited to Germany. Holocaust denies are obviously shmucks but in the long run this is the same sort of behavior which allows any country to piss on the basic rights of people in other countries. How long until Thailand decides to extend its laws against criticizing the monarch to other countries? Or how long until Italy extends its laws against making mean comments about the Pope or the Italian Prime Minster? (see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4732048.ece ).
As an American Liberal who doesn't care much for central authority nor cradle to grave hand holding let me be the one of many who lets you know that we do not want that. Health care is not hand holding, it's a basic human right. Maybe where you (and Sarah Palin) are from treatment for a broken bone or chronic illness is "hand holding" but here in Montana its considered a basic necessity. Even if most people around here don't see the state as needing to take a role in health care, no one would consider that hand holding. Education is much the same way, though everyone around here does think that's a government function (though no one wants to pay the teachers...). And having social programs doesn't inherently increase the power of the state. It's poor implementation that does that. Socialized health care should be handed off to a team of highly skilled and respected health care providers. The government just foots the bill. Maybe you take issue with that last part. But no one wants the government involved in how to best treat a migraine. So please leave the strawman at the door.
The point i was trying to make is that anyone else can come and see it as well. If there is one and only one video feed of the event we end up in the same place as before, all our trust in one group of people.
Third party verification is essential in almost everything. You need a witness to get married, we need "co-signers" for ssl to work..
But like you said, we need someone there we trust. There can be trust in many opposing groups showing the same infomation. My opinion of course : /
http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
"Health care is not hand holding, it's a basic human right."
No, its not. A human right is not something given to you its something all people have by right of their existence. The freedom to voice your own mind (freedom of speech) is not something that is provided to you as all people have that ability (in one form or another).
Socialized health care is an entitlement just like public education and social security. Entitlements are not a bad thing but they are not to be treated as rights. The bill of rights does not 'give rights' it restricts the government from taking away rights people are naturally endowed with.
"Maybe where you (and Sarah Palin) are from treatment for a broken bone or chronic illness is "hand holding" but here in Montana its considered a basic necessity."
And maybe you (and Joe Biden) decides the desirable ends of an entielment merit destroying the purity and uniqueness of human rights by calling every good thing to be given a 'right' but here in reality rights and entitlements are different things.
Personally I am all for socialized Medicine *at the state level* I am also for free college education *at the state level* and Living wage enforcement *at the state level*. The more local the government the more they should be the ones who I have to interact with on a day to day level.
"Education is much the same way, though everyone around here does think that's a government function (though no one wants to pay the teachers...)"
Are there no private schools in Montana? What? there are... Seems to me people think its an entitlement the state can provide but its not solely the states job.
"And having social programs doesn't inherently increase the power of the state. It's poor implementation that does that."
It does over those benefiting from the programs (and those paying for them). Federal health care is a way for folks from California or South Carolina to have a voice in what conditions I have to meet to get care at a hospital. My Grandfather had little say over what treatment he was allowed to get for cancer in a socialized system.
"Socialized health care should be handed off to a team of highly skilled and respected health care providers."
Right because that's what our experience with the ever growing role of the federal government in K12 has demonstrated... The government will hand off that roll to a team of skilled and respected providers... Its not like they have a history of growing bureaucracies that are outperformed by private institutions (Private Schools / Charter schools) and self service people (home schoolers) spending far less money to do the same job.
"The government just foots the bill. Maybe you take issue with that last part."
Nobody, not you, not me, and most certainly not the government foots a bill without having a major say in how the money is used. I don't mind paying my taxes one bit, and if there is a real need I don't mind them going up. Personally I would rather send 7% of my check to DC and 28% to St. Paul (not counting SS, Medicare, ..., ...) but its not the money coming out I mind.
"Ahh! Arrogance and stupidity in the same package, how efficient of you!" --Londo Molari
Wouldn't it be great if offshore firms
wronged by Kentucky decided to return
the favor and pwn Kentucky tlds?
What would the inbreds do then?
The ultimate weapon for the state in this case is that state can legally declare all gambling debts unenforcable. If they allow cost recovery from VISA or Paypal, the gambling sites may not only find they can't do bussiness in Kentucky but that from VISA's point of view they can't do bussiness at all with VISA.
Most gambling sites won't allow you to go into debt anyways, but require you to maintain a zero or greater balance in your account with them (if it falls to zero you simply are not allowed to gamble on the site until you put more money in the account). So not allowing them to collect gambling debts would be pointless.
As for VISA and MC not allowing them to collect, that's already a problem and there are ways around that (that usually involve setting up a third party overseas payment service, similar to paypal, that can't be directly tied to the gambling site).
Windows is a bonfire, Linux is the sun. Linux only looks smaller if you lack perspective.
Treaties are approved by the Senate, not the states, and yes, there is a treaty (actually a series of treaties and annexes, I think) involved in joining the WTO. The president approves, but the Senate must consent.
Treaties occupy a spot between the Constitution and statutory law. Law must conform to adopted treaties, but treaty language can be overridden by the Constitution.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
"The ultimate weapon for the state in this case is that state can legally declare all gambling debts unenforcable. "
Nah. I work in the sports industry (NOT in a sportsbook, only programming some things aroung the betting industry.
FYI, many serious operations moved from POST-UP to Credit. That means, that you do not deposit money via credit card, but you have a credit with your land based agent.
That also means, that there will be no law and credit card company enforcing the payment, but 2 guys with a baseball bet knocking on your door.
If the domain thing and routing goes live (won't happen IMHO), then there will be a client based software very quickly One that uses multiple ips, and an updated list of the "UP sites". There are a lot of talks about something like that. That would work, because they are not going to block whole nations, and places like Costa Rica (where I live), Dominican Rep, Panama (etc. etc.) have "normal" sites mixed with gaming sites all over. Sometimes on the same server and IP.
Here is the other thing: casinos and poker rooms might get screwed, but sportsbooks will happily take bets over the phone. Many people actually do that, as they have no idea how to use a computer.
Well, just my view on the issue. I am somewhat thinking on the technicalities, but most of the people I know just laughed at the whole thing.
Thank you...I knew it was something like that.
I wonder, tho....if we were to start observing the 10th amendment more often, would that possibly start knocking down some treaty provisions, such as some of the WTO ones? Seems this would interfere with states rights to regulate gambling?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
it will be ok, the people can still visit the sites via ip address.
You don't understand or you don't care cause you do not gamble? ...
First they came for the dirty pothead (Marc Emery from Canada), but I did not care.
Then they came for the dirty software pirate (Hew Raymond Griffiths from Australia), but I did not care.
Then they came for the ditry gamblers, but I did not care.
You're next buddy!
That also means, that there will be no law and credit card company enforcing the payment, but 2 guys with a baseball bet knocking on your door. [Emphasis added]
So if I don't pay, they send over two other customers to watch the game with me? Cool!
Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
The domain names "perform a critical role in creating and maintaining connection by way of the various interfaces to transact a game or play," he wrote. "Accordingly, but subject to further review during the forfeiture hearing, the court finds reasonable bases to conclude that the internet gambling operators and their property, the internet domain names, are present in Kentucky." He went on to write that the domain names "are virtual keys for entering and creating virtual casinos from the desktop of a resident in Kentucky. The domain name is indispensable in maintaining the player's continuing access to the virtual casinos which serve as the internet gambling operators premises for conducting illegal gambling activity."
So basically he has given a certain amount of cover to an act of *censorship*: pre-emptive state seizure of intellectual assets. Unfortunately for him, this does not pass the smell test of "imminent threat to public health or public safety". I predict that this action will -- somewhere up the line -- be overturned as an unlawful use of state power to restrict First Amendment access by Kentucky citizens.
DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.
http://www.antiguawto.com/WTODispPg.html
My impression was that the US was under sanctions because we allow meatspace gambling on a state-by-state basis, but forbid internet gambling on a federal level. One of the treaties we signed allows states to allow or forbid gambling, but not selectively allow gambling based upon random criteria. In this case, we forbit internet gambling but allow Indian casinos, state lotteries, Atlanta, Vegas, etc. Antigua wants to compete in the US gambling market over the internet, but is prohibited by federal law. The WTO ruled against us, and we have been in non-compliance for about 4 years now.
The ______ Agenda
>>>Health care is not hand holding, it's a basic human right.
You are 100% correct. Everyone has a right to walk into a doctor's office, say "I'm sick", and request treatment. In turn that doctor will do his best to cure you, and hand you a bill for his labor & expenses.
What you do Not have a right to do is pass the bill off to your neighbors, and demand that they pay it. That's called theft.
FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
true BUTT:
that re-routing concept,, it constitutes hacking under federal guidelines!, its a form of cross site attack
you bet! :)
I hereby establish the soverign country of Itsallmine.
Accordingly to the laws I have enacted, the property of all countries, states and territories becomes the property of Itsallmine if such countries, states and territories enact, enforce or propose stupid, outlandish and "America Rules the World" types of legislation.
Accordingly, the US State of Kentucky is now the property of Itsallmine.
All citizens of Kentucky are now subject to the laws of Itsallmine.
Gambling is now legal. .. that I will establish) to determine the level of corruption that they have been a party to.
All state taxes are abolished.
All elected representatives of the state, county and city councils will present themselves to the State Police for a polygraph test (which will be admissable in a court of law
Well .... if the state of Kentucky can make up laws that are unenforceable, are in breach of International Treaties and just laughable ... why the hell can't I?