Amazon Launches "Frustration-Free Packaging"

mallumax notes Amazon's new Frustration-Free Packaging initiative. Over several years the retailer hopes to convince many of its suppliers to offer consumer-friendlier packaging. It's starting with just 19 products from Mattel, Fisher-Price, Microsoft, and Transcend. Until this program spreads to more products, better get one of these (ThinkGeek and Slashdot share a corporate overlord). From Amazon's announcement: "The Frustration-Free Package is recyclable and comes without excess packaging materials such as hard plastic clamshell casings, plastic bindings, and wire ties. It's designed to be opened without the use of a box cutter or knife and will protect your product just as well as traditional packaging. Products with Frustration-Free Packaging can frequently be shipped in their own boxes, without an additional shipping box. Amazon works directly with manufacturers to box products in Frustration-Free Packages right off the assembly lines, which reduces the overall amount of packing materials used."

Comments

Best packaging innovation ever

[CMonk]

How much cost does it add to a product to make it retail shelf friendly (theft, presentation)? Hopefully this will save us money down the line too.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Dun Malg]

Given that they're the exact opposite of retail B&M store packaging (easy to open and steal, likely shippable in it's own box and thus largely unlabeled) I'd say we're not going to see the disappearance of the hand-slashing blister pack. The "features" of a retail package exist because the necessities of retail in-person sales demand them. These necessities aren't going to disappear because Amazon's mail order business isn't bound by those necessities.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[barfy]

Um... Pennies. It is a negligible cost of the product.

This is mainly a giant win for Amazon, who doesn't have to spend for additional materials for packaging or shipping of single pick orders. As a matter of fact they are probably willing to give the manufacturer some sort of benefit from this. Slightly higher costs for instance.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[roc97007]

The odd thing is that even in situation where theft isn't an issue (like, behind the counter, or in a locked case) the products are still (often) clad in highly annoying, theft-proof, finger-slashing packaging.

In any case, the manufacturer could still use user-friendly packaging, and the stores (were it an issue) could use those reusable plastic lock-boxes you sometimes see software or videos in, which are cheap enough to buy in quantity but still need to be opened with a key at the register. One could make a case that this is even more secure than blister packaging (the anti-steal rfid is inside the locked box, instead of glued on the outside) and since the boxes are reused, much waste is eliminated.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[taustin]

I don't think you realize how cheap those blister packs are, or the economy of scale in packaging everything a given manufacturer makes in the same kind of packaging (even if not the same size). Different kinds of packaging require different kinds of very expensive machines to handle, and that means different assembly lines that can't be easily converted to a product that uses the other kind of packaging. And so on.

Plus, at the retail end, anything the requires a key to sell requires, if not a manager, at least a senior employeed who has been vetted more throughly than the average cahsier.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Anonymous Coward]

their is a security tag inside the case as well look for it to fall out next time you open a cd/dvd if you still buy them (they are a big part of stopping employee theft i.e people who can take the security covers off)

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[hairyfeet]

I don't know about that. I have noticed both at my local Walgreen's and Wal Mart more and more items are simply having an empty box set on the shelf with a card holder in front of it with slips you take to the check out. I personally prefer it this way since you still can read the box while at the same time avoiding the "blister packs from hell" that are such a royal PITA to deal with. Not only is this more eco-friendly but for those of us with hand problems it makes the purchase a LOT easier to deal with.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[bluefoxlucid]

A magnetic lock isn't a key. Well, it's a key, but it's not something you keep locked up. You keep the keys to open the $2000 laptop cage with managers and loss prevention; but you can leave a software box key for easy-to-steal $40 software in a drawer at the cashier's desk, or wired (1/8 inch steel cable) to the cash register. The privilege to open a $40 anti-theft box is different from the privilege to open a cage locking up $2000 handheld computers.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Cow Jones]

I'm wondering if there's a local aspect to the packaging strategy as well. In the EU, if a seller uses redundant packaging material, he has an obligation to either (a) take back all the packaging that isn't necessary to protect the product, or (b) pay what amounts to a monthly packaging tax. Most retailers still opt for (b), but at least in my country they're required to offer you a way to dispose of the excess packaging before you leave the store.

As for Amazon, I've hardly ever seen them use too much packaging. Their packets are made of recycled carton and open by pulling on a paper strap. Everything inside is exactly how I want it. I *want* the DVD cases, and the toy boxes! Getting your Legos in a bag is quite different from getting them in a flashy designed box - six sides with pictures that can show you different ways of assembling the parts.

They could get rid of the plastic wraps around the individual items, no big deal, but that's been done before, and is not news-worthy.

By the way... sometimes there's stuff in those packages that you didn't order. I got small packets of gummy bears a few times, and a "complimentary book" (twice). All in all, I can't complain.

CJ

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[v1]

Most of the "welded plastic bubbles" are NOT shelf-friendly. They often have very little flatness on the bottom, are often approaching top-heavy, and if you view it from above you can see just how much space it wastes due to the front and/or back being rounded.

Though if you are using hooks, they are slightly more convenient to deal with but you can't stack as many of them on a hook as you sometimes can boxes on a shelf.

I personally can't stand needing to fight a package open. I wonder how many ER visits are due to someone trying to open said packaging with a steak knife or a scissors. I'm amazed I haven't managed to get myself at least once... some of those packages are even very hard to open with scissors. I have a tin snips I use now. MUCH better. But I shouldn't have to in the first place.

Also a PITA for the consumer and/or retailer, depending on the return policy. Either way, someone's getting shafted. The manufacturers that box things up that way are doing it to lower the return (to the manufacturer) rate. No way you're going to get that back in the packaging in resaleable condition, so either you can't return it, or the retailer accepts it back and then can't sell it. (or has to sell at an obviously-opened-box markdown)

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Rary]

These necessities aren't going to disappear because Amazon's mail order business isn't bound by those necessities.

Until the B&M retailers start watching their sales migrating to Amazon and begin rethinking their necessities.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[aywwts4]

Anything that requires a key requires basically any lackey who works in that department to unlock. No seniority at all. At many stores security usually does an audit at the end of each night to check for theft in all locked areas, If an employee stole something, they can just review the tapes, and they have their name, address, and social on file. Not quite the perfect crime, or much of a risk to the store.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[taustin]

I can tell you have never worked in retail management. Now you have to a) train all your cashiers not simple "call a manager/whatever to open the lockup case," but rather at least two (or maybe more) tiers of "if customer wants x, call manager, but if customer wants y, call Joe the Department Manager, but if customer wants z, call Barb the Head Cashier." You also have to train the manager, Joe, and Barb in all this, as well. And no training is perfect (and cashier and sales rarely make more than minimum wage, with expected effects on their skill set), so you also back up the lines with each error made. Plus, you now have multiple lockup cases, which a) require more management to keep functioning properly, and b) require yet more multiple levels of training, different for different employees, as to what goes in which case.

Plus, you're now gow multiple sets of security systems, all different, to maintain, both physically, and as part of your security policy.

All in an industry with a net profit margin under 5%, and often under 3%.

If you've never run a retail store, you cannot even imagine the value of economy of scale, and consistenty in training across all employee positions. And few things cost you money faster than a stoppage at a cash register because the minimum wage cashier can't remember who has the key to the right lockup case (or even which lockup case the goods are in).

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[taustin]

Anything that requires a key requires basically any lackey who works in that department to unlock. No seniority at all.

Having been involved in retail management for 25+ years, I can tell you, with certainty, that if it's worth locking up at all, it's worth your minimum wage sales drone's effort to steal. Far more theft in most retails stores is by employees than by customers.

At many stores security usually does an audit at the end of each night to check for theft in all locked areas

And at far more, that would require hiring security personnel (who are more expensive to employ, and a lot more expensive to hire, since there's no point in hiring a security person who hasn't been vetted with a background check, unless you want them to organize the employee theft ring) specifically to review those tapes, because most stores that have anything worth locking up have quite a bit worth locking up. And, generally speaking, a lot of it is dispersed enough that it's not under a camera. Cameras (and recording systems) are rather expensive, especially if you expect to be able to actually identify even someone you know in the video, and installing them is a lot more expensive. At most retailers that even have security cameras, less than 10% of the total sales floor is recorded by one. And your minimum wage employees won't even have to figure out which lockup cases aren't watched, since that will be part of their orientation (if you know how to run your store).

The only solution to virtually any security/shoplifting problem in a retail store is, ultimately, to spend money. Generally quite a bit of it. Which comes out of your 3-5% profit margin.

Retail's a bitch of a business.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[hedwards]

I recall seeing a tool to remove items from those annoying hard to open plastic cases in one of those annoying hard to open cases. I can only assume it was in one for one last shot at giving you tetanus.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[jonwil]

Not necessarily, here in Australia I see a lot of DVDs and CDs and stuff in plastic lock boxes which open using a gizmo fixed to the counter at each register. All registers have them and all staff are able to open them.
Some times they have some kind of special mod to the DVD case that makes it hard for thieves to open without a lot of effort (and without risk of damaging the DVD and/or causing a LOT of attention in the store)

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[drsquare]

Maybe then they should increase the price by putting a landfill tax on it.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you kidding me? You're offering a ridiculous strawman.

Two tiers.

Tier 1 product is not on the floor (just displays). The actual product is not brought out until after purchase. Or is only brought out when a purchase is intended and is accompanied by an employee until the purchase is complete.

Tier 2 product is on the floor in a locked box. It gets opened during purchase at the register using a key attached to the register.

Simple. Easy. Trainable. Secure.

Oh, did I mention that's how retailers are actually doing it right now?

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[hardburn]

By the way... sometimes there's stuff in those packages that you didn't order. I got small packets of gummy bears a few times, and a "complimentary book" (twice). All in all, I can't complain.

Last time I ordered from Amazon, they sent a second box, even though I only ordered one thing. Puzzled, I opened it up, and found a PS3 controller recharger inside. Though the box had an address label for me on it, the invoice inside said it was actually for some guy in Tennessee. (Yes, I did do the honest thing and send it back.)

Every time I order something from Amazon, they find a new and exciting way to screw it up.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[taustin]

I may have mentioned I've been doing retail management (and above) for 25+ years now.

You haven't. I can tell.

Yeah, some retailers do things your way. They tend to be outfits like Fry's, which also feel the need to hire door nazis to search through your bags on the way out. Not to stop shoplifters, mind you, but to cut down on (but never eliminate) theft by employees.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Anonymous Coward]

Sweet. Goodbye oil-based packaging.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[roc97007]

> Maybe then they should increase the price by putting a landfill tax on it.

So, you're saying that as consumers, we have to put up with annoying, wasteful packaging that we didn't ask for, which doesn't serve any direct purpose to us, and we should pay a tax on it to boot?

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[epee1221]

Having been involved in retail management for 25+ years, I can tell you, with certainty, that if it's worth locking up at all, it's worth your minimum wage sales drone's effort to steal. Far more theft in most retails stores is by employees than by customers.

How exactly does it improve the situation to use the "finger-slashing" packaging instead of locks?

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

If you've never run a retail store, you cannot even imagine the value of economy of scale, and consistenty in training across all employee positions. And few things cost you money faster than a stoppage at a cash register because the minimum wage cashier can't remember who has the key to the right lockup case (or even which lockup case the goods are in).

Wouldn't this be more akin to swiping the item on a platter than something that needs escalation to anyone else?

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Jesus_666]

At a local shopping center town (in American terms it's a big mall; in German terms it's a small town made up solely of warehouses) the music department uses hard plastic shells with built-in wireless chips (this system predated RFID). The cashiers there know how to open them - it's a function built into the register and works essentially like the one that removes the antitheft tag from clothes. There are no slowdowns and buying there only takes marginally more time than buying somewhere else. We're talking five seconds tops.

As the trend goes to software being sold with nothing much besides the DVD we might very well just give people the jewel case and put an antitheft shell around it. And then we use bigger shells with the same locking mechanism for hardware. Bam, immediately training transfers between the music, software and hardware departments.

If your cashiers are too stupid to know how to operate the detagging device on the register - what the hell are you doing emplying such morons? The fact that they're cheap doesn't mean they're cost-effective.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Green Salad]

Obviously, the improvement is that your finger-slashings will cost less, as your suppliers' inventory shrinkage is reduced, because all finger-slashing activity that has not been synergisticly consolidated with efficiently manufactured security packaging improvements could be appropriately transitioned with a consumer-education campaign that promotes the value generated by the innovative, presentation-friendly, product-protecting security packing. Of course, the critical cornerstone of the consumer-education campaign would most likely be a demographically-targeted message promulgated via the subject matter experts from the center of excellence in the public relations department. This would be easily financed, in part, from the forward-realized funds the savings extracted from the efficient consolidation of finger-slashing and security packaging upgrades yielding interdepartmental savings that are one of the cumulative components that demonstrate the management team's leadership in reaching a key milestone found in the critical path of plans to implement the corporate economic strategy.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[smoker2]

Yes.
Because then we don't buy the product as it's too expensive, which forces the manufacturer to cut those costs.
No-one is forced to buy any particular brand. Unless you consider yourself a consumer - ie the lowest form of life, destined to open your wallet every time the tv tells you to. You can tax the manufacturer or the consumer but in the end it's always the consumer who pays.
Here in the UK we used to have milk delivered every day in glass bottles. The milkman used to collect the empties for washing and refilling, and the delivery was done with electric vehicles. But - it was cheaper for the milk companies to use plastic and get rid of the milkman, so now we have problem plastic going into the ground as landfill AND the milk has to travel much further to regional bottling plants then be re-transported back to its original area for sale in shops AND we have put thousands of people out of a job*. So which is cheaper in the final analysis ?

* These workers were also delivering bread, vegetables, other dairy products, and also were usually the people who alerted the emergency services when somebody was ill or incapacitated (due to yesterdays milk still being there) and also helped keep burglary and crime down by being around at times when everybody else was asleep. But no, fuck that, we want cheap and disposable. Money rules FTW.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[PietjeJantje]

I don't know about retail laws in the USA, but here in the Netherlands this horrible packaging is not seen as something to prevent theft or for presentation, but simply a trick that forces you to destroy the packaging. It cannot be opened without damaging the packaging. When the packaging is damaged, many people will not return a product when they are not happy with it, despite the fact it will not stand in court (yes, retailers may require undamaged packaging for returns, but no, not when one evilly designs it for this purpose).

Making a "new" package which does not sport this features won't solve this, because they acquire these packaging over normal ones exactly for this purpose. It evolved from normal packaging to provide this, it's not like that's the only thing there is and they don't have choice ("But now they have, with Amazon!"). If they do this with a limited number of products, all it is is a marketing ploy to generate sales incentives for that limited range, but there is no structural solution.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[JasterBobaMereel]

No you should buy everything that would be packaged like this online then the economy of scale balance would tip and they manufacturer would refuse to sell with theft resistant packaging to the retail store and we would get it in easier and cheaper packaging....

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[jalefkowit]

Locks cost the retail outlet money. Your slashed finger costs them nothing.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Bloke down the pub]

I don't think you realize how cheap those blister packs are, or the economy of scale in packaging everything a given manufacturer makes in the same kind of packaging

Perhaps Amazon are big enough that it's worth providing an alternative. Computer components often come in different retail and OEM packs, for example.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[apoc.famine]

A second reason for blister packs is that they allow you to position your product precisely for the best viewing by the customer. Yes, there is marketing research that goes into that in some cases. Presentation is important, and a bin full things all mashed together is nowhere near as desirable as a single item, on display, and surrounded with shiny stuff. They keep all the parts together, and allow items to be shoveled into bins and retrieved later in good condition.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[fredklein]

I can tell you're in Retail Management. You actually think that searching CUSTOMERS cuts down on EMPLOYEE theft.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[BronsCon]

Absolutely true. My wife worked at Sam's Club for a while and employees were NEVER searched. Once they knew me, neither was I.

Thing is, just because someone's a regular doesn't mean they're never gong to steal.

My wife stopped the store manager outside the building one day while I was "shopping". Just as the door attendant, who is supposed to check everyone, no matter who they are, let me walk on through with a $100... I forget what... in my shirt, he happened to be looking.

He knew me and he knew I saw him. Given that she had him at the door, he figured out real quickly what was going on. I showed him what I was able to get out with and he had a "meeting" with his LP staff and door attendants later that week.

Yes, the alarm went off as I walked out the door.

No, nobody stopped me.

That said, such security is used by places without door nazis, as well. Home Depot, for example. Unless you live in downtown Hell, there are no door nazis to be seen. Many products are, however, either locked in a cage (by a combination lock that can be opened by and department associate, head cashier, manager or most other associates who've ever had to cover that department), a plastic case (key at register) or an alarmed wire wrap (key at register).

Know what, though?

It does fuck-all to stop theft.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[swillden]

I can tell you're in Retail Management. You actually think that searching CUSTOMERS cuts down on EMPLOYEE theft.

It does.

It's much easier and safer for employees, particularly those working at the cash registers, to collaborate with a friend and simply avoid scanning a few items in order to steal them, rather than try to walk out with the stuff themselves. It's hard for management to catch by watching the checkout process, and if a cashier is caught, it's pretty easy for them to pass it off as an honest mistake.

As a bonus, this sort of attack also defeats the RF tags that many retailers use. They're normally disabled by the cashier during the checkout process, so the crooked cashier just disables them without ringing them up.

Checking customer bag contents against receipts is an effective way to prevent this sort of theft. Of course, it also pisses off the customers.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[roc97007]

>> So, you're saying that as consumers, we have to put up with annoying, wasteful packaging that we didn't ask for, which doesn't serve any direct purpose to us, and we should pay a tax on it to boot?

> Yes. > Because then we don't buy the product as it's too expensive, which forces the manufacturer to cut those costs.

You voted for Obama, didn't you? Let's say I need a SD card for my camera. Every single brand comes in a blister pack, because of the perception that SD cards are too easy to steal and the stores can't get it together to find a different way to dispense them. (This is closer to what we're actually talking about. We can talk about milk delivery another time if you wish -- it's an interesting subject.) As a consumer, I detest this practice for its inconvenience and wastefulness. You're saying that nevertheless it's still my fault for having a need for a product that is only packaged in this fashion? And you're honestly suggesting that the manufacturer can be persuaded to change their packaging by a new tax on the consumer?

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Anonymous Coward]

not all brick and mortar stores use impenetrable packaging. Most of Radio Shack's stuff is in boxes or plastic containers backed by cardboard and held together by staples. Everything's really easy to get to.

Maybe that's why their prices are high.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[roc97007]

> As the trend goes to software being sold with nothing much besides the DVD we might very well just give people the jewel case and put an antitheft shell around it. And then we use bigger shells with the same locking mechanism for hardware. Bam, immediately training transfers between the music, software and hardware departments.

Exactly. And before anyone gets cute, we're not talking about putting an antitheft shell around a washer/dryer. This only applies for products which are perceived as a shoplifting risk -- small enough to more-or-less easily pocket.

The point is, packaging strategies exist that meet the needs of both a mail order company and a brick-and-mortar store which also have the happy side-effect of increasing consumer satisfaction, without the inventory nightmares of multi-packaging.

Taxes on wasteful packaging have little effect on the manufacturer because the cost is borne directly by the consumer, and as long as the consumer has no other packaging choices, the system never changes -- it just becomes more costly. This may make self-righteous people feel better about wasteful packaging, but the wasteful packaging continues.

So, how are manufacturers convinced to adopt more user-friendly packaging? This brings us full circle back to the original article.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[cyn1c77]

Plus, at the retail end, anything the requires a key to sell requires, if not a manager, at least a senior employeed who has been vetted more throughly than the average cahsier.

Like condoms for example?

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Random Destruction]

Checking customer bag contents against receipts is an effective way to prevent this sort of theft. Of course, it also pisses off the customers.

Indeed it would. I've never had my bags searched like that at a store, but if it ever happens, I'm not going back. If i wanted to be searched, id go smoke some hash at the police station.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Anonymous Coward]

Raise the bar. When I was a cashier I was expected to know the location and price of every item in my store.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[porcupine8]

Once I ordered some doll furniture. I got my doll furniture along with a stuffed pikachu. I called them, and they said to just keep the pikachu, I guess it would cost more for them to have me ship it back than to let me keep it.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Qalthos]

Then buy it online from some retailer (perhaps Amazon?) who doesn't need to put up with these things and can thereby sell the products more cheaply.

I once bought 3 SD cards off of woot, they came in a box about the size of a cassette with nothing but the cards in their protective cases and some bubble wrap and an invoice.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[ChrisA90278]

"wasteful packaging that we didn't ask for, which doesn't serve any direct purpose to us, and we should pay a tax on it to boot?"

Yes, that would be a good idea. If there were two items one with horible packing and the tax and the other with no tax, people would buy the lower price item forcing the company that continues to use that hardplasic clam shell to go broke.

I'd go for a $50 per package tax on those hard shells, they'd be gone overnight.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[taustin]

That must be why I said it was to reduce EMPLOYEE theft. Dumbass.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[fredklein]

No, it doesn't. It does not cut down on "employee theft". It MAY cut down on "employee and friend theft".

I say "may", because 1) I've never had the receipt-checker actually count the items in the bag, much less check to make sure they are the correct items, and 2) customers are perfectly free to walk right past the receipt-checker and out the door.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, cause an employee could never give a customer (which he/she knows before hand) an item without scanning it, thus keeping it from showing up on the reciept.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[swillden]

It does not cut down on "employee theft". It MAY cut down on "employee and friend theft".

It does reduce theft. Classifying it as "employee theft" or "employee and friend theft" is silly.

I say "may", because 1) I've never had the receipt-checker actually count the items in the bag, much less check to make sure they are the correct items, and 2) customers are perfectly free to walk right past the receipt-checker and out the door.

On 1), they don't count the items. They look in the bag for high-value items and verify that they're on the receipt. Even with bag checkers, it's easy to steal low-value items this way, but the real value in theft is stealing expensive stuff.

On 2), most people don't realize they're free to walk right out. Go to Best Buy or Fry's when they're doing bag checks and see how many people refuse. Also, at membership-only stores like Sam's Club and Cosco, you are not free to just walk out. When you joined you agreed to allow them to check your bag.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry, we vet the condoms very thoroughly. Every single one.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[stephanruby]

That guy in Tennessee was me! That's the last time I try to inject single quotes and an AND into my address block. I was hoping for a different result.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[mattack2]

Googling, I found a few, but I think this is one of the most well known ones. http://www.enjoyzibra.com/openit/

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[bluefoxlucid]

I know that when I worked at Best Buy, we handled software by magnetic keys that employees were allowed to carry around. Stuff locked in cases, however, needed a manager key. If I wanted a maglock key that wasn't chained to the cash register, I needed to walk up to the LP desk (front door) and take it out of the drawer, from a coworker that worked on my level, usually helping me stick boxes on the shelf and unload a truck.

Locked cases are one type of security. Lock-up boxes are a physically difficult to remove version of magnetic RFID alarm tags. RFID alarm tags are a third security system used for lesser items. Each is handled via a different protocol.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[fredklein]

On 1), they don't count the items. They look in the bag for high-value items and verify that they're on the receipt

No, they don't. At least, they never have with me.

Besides, considering the type of people who have that job, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to tell a 'high-value' item from a low-value item just by looking at it.

On 2), most people don't realize they're free to walk right out.

But the 'friend' part of an 'employee-and-friend' shoplifting team will certainly know, and certainly take advantage of that. So, again, it does NOT stop theft. Which was my original point.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[swillden]

Numbers don't lie.

Re:Best packaging innovation ever

[thexile]

... they find a new and exciting way to screw it up.

Do I need all sorts of screwdriver/allen-key just to open Amazon packages now?

lawsuits...

[eeyoredragon]

Why is it people are sued for their coffee being too hot... but people haven't sued the crap out of corporations for packages that quite frankly maim their customers?

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

The package doesn't maim the customer, the customer maims themself. There is a proper way to open a package, sometimes it's not all that clear, but it is possible to open a package without causing bodily harm. It's not all that apparent, but quite a bit of thought goes into designing a package; sadly, the end-user isn't always the main concern.

Re:lawsuits...

[eeyoredragon]

You can dance around it all you like... but it doesn't change the end result. People every day are injured in some way by this "two plastic bubbles melted together" method of packaging. Because it practically requires bladed weapons to open.

I have instructions on jars that tell me to twist open a cap... I'd say the whole twist cap thing is pretty self explanatory, yet people feel the need to put instructions on how to open jars.

You know why there's no instructions on how to open a solid lump of plastic? Because it being able to be opened isn't on their mind at all... not that it isn't their "main concern". They'd put it in a solid lead bubble with a cytotoxic theft deterrent system, but sadly that costs them more money.

Re:lawsuits...

[Waffle Iron]

Because it practically requires bladed weapons to open.

That's the wrong tool for the job. Use a small pair of tin snips, and there's very little chance that you'll injure yourself. (Making packages that require tin snips to open is still stupid, though.)

Re:lawsuits...

[fiannaFailMan]

The package doesn't maim the customer, the customer maims themself(sic). There is a proper way to open a package, sometimes it's not all that clear, but it is possible to open a package without causing bodily harm. It's not all that apparent, but quite a bit of thought goes into designing a package; sadly, the end-user isn't always the main concern.

That's the defence that Detroit used to fight the safety features that they were dragged kicking and screaming into introducing by Ralph Nader. Initially they blamed the victims instead of taking responsibility for producing dangerous products.

I'm sorry, but packaging should protect the product AND be possible to access safely. If there's no obvious way to use it and avoid injury, the designer is at fault.

There is no way that I have discovered to get into a clamshell without running the risk of serious injury either from the metal blade that I have to use to cut it, or the plastic blade that is formed when using scissors and always ends up pointing into the path of my oncoming hand.

Whoever invented plastic clamshells should be sentenced to an eternity of sitting in a dark room opening one of his creations after another.

Re:lawsuits...

[arminw]

...Because it practically requires bladed weapons to open....

And that is so terrible? A sharp pair of scissors is quite good for this and reasonably safe for anyone that doesn't have two left hands.

Re:lawsuits...

[cayenne8]

"That's the wrong tool for the job. Use a small pair of tin snips, and there's very little chance that you'll injure yourself. "

Yeah..like everyone has a pair of those laying around...

[rolls eyes]

Re:lawsuits...

[HUADPE]

You are aware that scissors are a pair of shearing blades, right. Scissors, tin snips, and other shears must have the property of a hard sharp edge in order to do their job. Good scissors can cut you if you touch the blade. Also, the plastic itself becomes dangerous when cut. That stuff can be quite sharp.

Re:lawsuits...

[Firehed]

I've paid for tools specifically for opening blister packs, and the net result is only that I do less damage to myself rather than none at all. Short of wearing work gloves and safety glasses and then taking an angle grinder to the packaging, I can't think of a better way.

Re:lawsuits...

[adamruck]

I'd say you are the one dancing around the issue.

-Yes the blister packs require a knife or scissors to open.
-Yes it is annoying.
-Yes if you are clumsy or not paying attention or just plain dumb you might cut yourself or damage the product.

If you screw up, perhaps next time you will be more careful. Consider it a life lesson.

Re:lawsuits...

[Waffle Iron]

Well, most everyone who doesn't have a lame-assed assortment of tools has something along those lines.

Re:lawsuits...

[arminw]

...the plastic itself becomes dangerous when cut...

well yes, but then LIFE itself is dangerous. You will never get out of it alive! Honestly, if you don't face greater danger every day than cutting yourself on a piece of plastic, or even on a piece of paper, you are living a very sheltered life. I DARE you to get out of your mothers basement and RUN across the street. The odds are pretty good you will make it, IF you look both ways first! This packaging thing is a non-issue for most people.

Re:lawsuits...

[iminplaya]

Use a small pair of tin snips...

Absolutely. That's how I replace the battery in my iPod...just kidding...I don't have an iPod...Uh oh...I hope this hard plastic is fireproof.

Re:lawsuits...

[Firehed]

Even if they did, tin snips still aren't very effective at getting open blister packs safely unless you're wearing heavy work gloves, in my experience. You'll still end up with a sharp edge whipping around, even if you're not ripping it open with your hands (which is undoubtably unsafe).

The fact that we have to have this discussion at all just goes to show the level of insanity that went into blister packs.

Frustration-free packaging can't come soon enough. I hope Amazon works out a deal with CD and DVD distributers too. They're not blister pack-dangerous, but still a major pain in the ass.

Re:lawsuits...

[poetmatt]

considering that it's about 5 bucks after the first google result, I wouldn't go crying like its' hard to get though.

Re:lawsuits...

[martinw89]

Why is it people are sued for their coffee being too hot... but people haven't sued the crap out of corporations for packages that quite frankly maim their customers?

The ladder is frivolous in comparison. The coffee case has largely been misrepresented in popular media. Liebeck, the plaintiff, suffered third degree burns on her thighs, buttocks, and genitals. She required 8 days of hospitalization, skin grafts, and $11,000 in medical bills. Liebeck first sought to settle out of court for $20,000 to cover said bills. When McDonalds countered with a $800 offer, Liebeck took the case to court.

There have been frivolous lawsuits, definitely true. The scalding coffee was not. Other coffee vendors around the city were, at the highest temperature, 20 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than McDonald's coffee.

Main source.

Re:lawsuits...

[vigmeister]

And that is so terrible? A sharp pair of scissors is quite good for this and reasonably safe for anyone that doesn't have two left hands.

Il facto, even if you have two left hands, there are scissors for people like you!
Left Handed scissors
For the record, left handed scissors beat paper and lose to stone. Cheers! -- Vig

Re:lawsuits...

[timmarhy]

i think someone needs a HTFU t-shirt.

Re:lawsuits...

[Greyfox]

So far I haven't run across anything a pair of heavy kitchen shears couldn't handle. I usually reserve them for king crab (Nature's obnoxious packaging) but occasionally bust them out for RAM or MP3 headphones.

That being said I think the inventor of said packaging should be required by law to be trapped underwater inside a scale model of their packaging. That should deter some of the more egregious packaging offenses out there...

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it practically requires bladed weapons

I'm going to sue Perdue because the way I eat and prepare my chicken requires the use of a sharp knife.

Re:lawsuits...

[anagama]

yeah -- but getting the blister pack off the tin snips -- chicken and egg.

Re:lawsuits...

[Lifthrasir]

You expect hot coffee to be well, hot. It's supposed to be freshly boiled water. Otherwise it is luke warm.

If you pour hot coffee over yourself, you can expect to be burnt.

It's not McDonalds fault that not only are their customers stupid, but so is the justice system that will reward their customers for being stupid.

Re:lawsuits...

[anagama]

You must be a customer service manager.

Re:lawsuits...

[fm6]

That woman who sued over hot coffee was not simply whining about scalding her hands. She went to the hospital with 3rd degree burns. Probably the coffee had been reheated in a microwave. One hazard of heating liquids this way is that you can make them superhot without causing them to boil.

Anyway, we both know that people's hatred for blister packs has nothing to do with the risk of personal injury. (I have several scars on my hands from cutting vegetables or slicing bagels. Not one from opening a blister pack.) It's the extreme frustration you experience while you try to cut away enough plastic to get at the contents. Unfortunately "frustation" aint tortable.

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoever invented plastic clamshells should be sentenced to an eternity of sitting in a dark room opening one of his creations after another.

I'd suggest we reserve that fate for the executives responsible for the decision to use them in mass.

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

The ladder is frivolous in comparison.

lol. I might use that for my sig! A frivolous ladder! lmao!

Re:lawsuits...

[aliquis]

The good solution would be to package in simple to open paper boxes, such as for instance what Nintendo and Apple use, or what books often come in when ordered online, and then spare the cutting tool for the people who commit the theft ...

Speaking of hand problems and all ;)

Re:lawsuits...

[petermgreen]

In my experiance ordinary scissors won't cut the thicker plastic clamshells. A good pair of side cutters will but they have an annoyingly short cut length. Trauma shears are good for opening them but most people don't keep those handy.

So people end up using sharp open blades with all the potential dangers those bring.

And then there are the sharp edges of the packaging itself, not enough to do any serious damage but certainly painfull.

Re:lawsuits...

[pyite]

There have been frivolous lawsuits, definitely true. The scalding coffee was not. Other coffee vendors around the city were, at the highest temperature, 20 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than McDonald's coffee.

It absolutely was frivolous. Here's a tip, a "life lesson" if you will: If you buy something that is, by definition, hot, don't pour it all over your legs. I have no sympathy for people who do stupid things and then blame other people. There is no argument here. Period.

Re:lawsuits...

[aliquis]

I find them annoying, melted together = suck because it require me to find a scissor and sometimes it's not very easy anyway.

Shrink-wrapped plastic = quite annoying to

Plastic bubble over paper card = as long as the plastic bubble don't cover the whole card these are decent, I never care for the pre-cut holes in the card but pull card and plastic appart. Waste of material and impossible to separate the plastic from all the paper though.

A small plastic box with pieces fiting on top of each other holding the package together by friction and a small plastic clip locking it all together but removable with some simple tool in the checkout would work ok to. (Probably easy to remove if you really want to but then brining a scissor is easy to ..)

Re:lawsuits...

[Valdrax]

You expect hot coffee to be well, hot. It's supposed to be freshly boiled water. Otherwise it is luke warm.

You cook pies at a temperature of 350 F, but you don't serve them to people right out of the oven. Why does coffee get a free pass to be served at temperatures that cause third degree burns in only 2-7 seconds of contact, as in the famous McDonald's case?

It would be one thing if McDonald's was selling cups of molten lava with a warning that clearly said, "Don't let the stuff touch you until it cools, you freaking morons!" but one generally expects FOOD to be safe to touch to your body.

Also, it should be easy to add cream and sugar to a cup of coffee without dumping it all over yourself. McDonald's had bad lid design in that respect too. Furthermore, documents produced in court showed the McD's was well aware of the fact that other customers had suffered third degree burns from their product and continued to sell it in an unsafe manner. They even alleged in court that people who buy coffee mostly take it home or to work and drink it there instead of in the court (which frankly doesn't pass the laugh test).

No, McDonald's was clearly negligent, if not reckless, in their behavior and deserved to be punished for it. Coffee isn't a product that should be that risky to purchase and consume. How exactly does serving coffee at 185 F do anything positive for the customer?

Re:lawsuits...

[martinw89]

Except there is, because McDonald's intentionally kept their coffee hotter than needed because they thought customers would be driving long distances and not drinking the coffee until much later. Just 20 degrees cooler, like all of the other coffee shops tested around the city, would have slowed the burning process down significantly. It may have given her enough time to react and not get third degree burns.

Re:lawsuits...

[Rary]

You expect hot coffee to be well, hot... If you pour hot coffee over yourself, you can expect to be burnt.

The point of the Liebeck case wasn't that the coffee was hot -- she expected that much -- but that it was significantly hotter than coffee is supposed to be. Coffee served at industry standard temperature can sit on bare skin for quite a while without causing more than a mild burn (redness and tenderness), whereas coffee served at the temperature that Ms. Liebeck's coffee was served at can cause third degree burns (requiring skin graft surgery) in as little as 2 seconds.

In other words, coffee is dangerous, but this coffee was significantly more dangerous, therefore she should have been warned.

To put it in perspective: everyone has spilled coffee on themselves at some point in their lives (I've done it, and I don't even drink coffee). Yet her coffee spill resulted in $11,000 in medical bills. Can you not see the difference between this and a normal coffee spill?

Re:lawsuits...

[CrimsonAvenger]

"That's the wrong tool for the job. Use a small pair of tin snips, and there's very little chance that you'll injure yourself. "

Yeah..like everyone has a pair of those laying around...

A pair of scissors works just fine. Or do you not have those either? If the latter, you're the first person I've ever met who owns box-cutters but not scissors....

Re:lawsuits...

[bh_doc]

The thing is, the exact same can be said about hot coffee:

- Yes hot coffee is hot (!) and requires care when handling
- Yes handling with care takes more effort than not
- Yes if you are clumsy or not paying attention or just plain dumb you might burn a hole in yourself

The question is why is one form of natural-selection-in-action generating lawsuits and the other not?

Re:lawsuits...

[gparent]

Good scissors can cut you if you touch the blade.

Well you know what to do then! Honestly, I haven't been injured by a blister pack, ever. Just take care when you open them, really.

Re:lawsuits...

[cpotoso]

This is absolutely pathetic. Who's fault it is that the person even drives while drinking coffee or holding it between her legs? I think she got what she bargained for...

Re:lawsuits...

[martinw89]

I'm assuming this is trolling, but I want to clarify anyway. She wasn't driving. She was in the passenger seat. AND the car was stopped. Poor lid design and hotter than standard temperatures led to quick third degree burns.

Re:lawsuits...

[pyite]

That woman who sued over hot coffee was not simply whining about scalding her hands. She went to the hospital with 3rd degree burns. Probably the coffee had been reheated in a microwave. One hazard of heating liquids this way is that you can make them superhot [wikipedia.org] without causing them to boil.

Boohoo. I doubt the coffee was reheated in a microwave. Even if it was, the superheating effect generally doesn't happen with styrofoam or paper cups because the insides are pretty rough. Even if it does happen, as soon as you touch the container, the liquid flash boils. I've done it (in ceramic as it's a smooth surface). So even if was superheated, it would have flash boiled by the time she got the cup, hence reducing the temperature to a maximum of 100 degrees celsius. I don't know about you, but I pretty much assume coffee and tea is going to be 100 degrees celsius. That's why I don't pour it over my legs. If I were to, I would suffer the consequences, maybe including not having my stupid genes copied to another human.

Re:lawsuits...

[Waffle Iron]

You expect hot coffee to be well, hot. It's supposed to be freshly boiled water.

No it's not. The water going over the grounds in the machine should be a good amount less than boiling, or else the flavor will suffer. The temperature typically drops further once it hits the carafe. I measured my drip machine as soon as the cycle finished, and the temperature was 160F. That's the temperature people expect, not the > 190F that McDonald's was serving.

If somebody handed you a pot of water that had just been pulled off of a full rolling boil, you'd be instinctively much more careful with it than you would if they handed you a random "cup of coffee". That's because you realize that the water in the pot could give you severe burns, but a typical cup of coffee won't. However, McDonald's was putting something like the former in a package that looked like the latter, even after being notified multiple times about prior incidents with their scalding coffee.

Re:lawsuits...

[tsalmark]

I think somewhere along the lines consumers lost. When I was a kid, I could open packages myself, without getting into my fathers toolbox.

Re:lawsuits...

[Dlugar]

There have been frivolous lawsuits, definitely true. The scalding coffee was not. Other coffee vendors around the city were, at the highest temperature, 20 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than McDonald's coffee.

Ridiculous. Try another source:
http://overlawyered.com/2005/10/urban-legends-and-stella-liebeck-and-the-mcdonalds-coffee-case/

The National Coffee Association of the USA recommends serving at 180-190 degrees; another article suggests industry standard is 160 to 185 degrees.

According to a Sep. 1, 1994 Wall Street Journal interview with Reed Morgan, Liebecks attorney, he measured the temperature at 18 restaurants and 20 McDonalds, and McDonalds was responsible for nine of the twelve highest temperature readings. Which means that, even before one accounts for conscious or unconscious bias in the measurements, at least three, and probably more (what about the other eleven McDonalds?), restaurants were serving coffee at a higher temperature. And Starbucks serves at a higher temperature today, and faces lawsuits over third-degree burns as a result (Jan. 2, 2004).

Re:lawsuits...

[pyite]

Except there is, because McDonald's intentionally kept their coffee hotter than needed because they thought customers would be driving long distances and not drinking the coffee until much later.

What about the person who went to McDonald's because their coffee was hotter? If she didn't want burns, she shouldn't have poured coffee on her lap. That's it. This is not a 2 year old touching a hot stove. This is an adult handling a beverage that, by definition, is made at or near boiling temperatures.

Instead of this generating a proper feedback loop of "don't pour hot stuff on lap" to the general population, it makes people think "I can be a retard and get paid for it!" The saving grace is that if male to do this around reproductive age, he might never get a chance to breed.

Re:lawsuits...

[TheGratefulNet]

I have instructions on jars that tell me to twist open a cap... I'd say the whole twist cap thing is pretty self explanatory, yet people feel the need to put instructions on how to open jars.

I understand its because of the australians and the way everything is reversed down there. reverse gravity flux or something.

Re:lawsuits...

[Detritus]

I use paramedic shears. They do a good job and they are safe. You can find them cheap on eBay.

Re:lawsuits...

[Lifthrasir]

Well as someone who only drinks instant I make my coffee with water fresh from the kettle (or ZipBoil at work). I don't know what temperature it comes out at (never measured it), but it is HOT. I've spilt it on myself before resulting in minor scalds (it is hot water after all), but never had anything more than a bit of redness. However, I've never poured a cupful of just-boiled water on myself. If I get something when I'm out and it doesn't get served to me HOT, I send it back. I asked for a HOT drink, not a luke-warm drink. But then again it is all about personal accountability. People would much rather blame someone else for their own actions. If I poured a kettle full of water on my crotch and burnt myself, I'm hardly going to sue the kettle manufacturer for making a product that is able to do such damage. People like her are the reason they put warnings like "don't touch moving blade" on a chainsaw.

Re:lawsuits...

[AmberBlackCat]

I've found a katana is much faster.

Re:lawsuits...

[EvanED]

I dunno about you, but I've found a fair percentage of these packages won't cut very easily with standard scissors, sometimes even if you are just trying to cut through a single layer of plastic, let alone the edges where the sides are welded together. I've even basically broken a pair of scissors trying to cut the damn things. I go for my utility knife or diagonal cutters any more.

Re:lawsuits...

[AmberBlackCat]

I look forward to killing your packaging soon...

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

The coffee case has largely been misrepresented in popular media. Liebeck, the plaintiff, suffered third degree burns on her thighs, buttocks, and genitals. She required 8 days of hospitalization, skin grafts, and $11,000 in medical bills.

Absolutely irrelevant. The issue is not was she injured, but WHO caused the injury by direct action or negligence.

Liebeck first sought to settle out of court for $20,000 to cover said bills. When McDonalds countered with a $800 offer, Liebeck took the case to court.

Also irrelevant. Settlement offers have no legal meaning. The famous Washington $54-million pants lawsuit judge was offered $12,000 by the dry cleaner to go away.

The scalding coffee was not.

Bullshit. McD's coffee is incredibly safe. The rate of injury for McD's coffee is 1 per 24 million cups. That is, for every injury, 24 MILLION PEOPLE DRINK COFFEE WITHOUT INCIDENT. And the vast majority of those cases are where McD's employees spilled coffee on a customer.

How safe does a consumer product have to be? The coffee even had a "caution hot" warning on the lid.

Did she ever drink coffee before that day? Yes. Did she know how coffee was made? Yes. Has she made coffee before? Yes. Did she know coffee was hot? Yes.

The cause of this unfortunate injury was the fact that Stella Liebeck is clumsy and stupid. She was in the passenger seat, put the coffee between her legs, took off the lid, and then spilled it. She then sat in the coffee for 90 seconds. Should coffee come with a "do not sit in coffee" warning?

Why didn't she put the coffee in one of the many cup holders in the vehicle?

Read the full story: http://stellaawards.com/stella.html

Other coffee vendors around the city were, at the highest temperature, 20 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than McDonald's coffee.

Also irrelevant. They also get complaints that their coffee tastes like crap.

If you support the Stella verdict, you are saying that you must treat every adult like a 5 year old child.

Re:lawsuits...

[drsquare]

You expect hot coffee to be well, hot. It's supposed to be freshly boiled water. Otherwise it is luke warm.

On the contrary, coffee is made with water off the boil, and then left to brew for several minutes, then cold milk is added. McDonald's were serving it at straight-out-of-the-kettle temperature.

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

You cook pies at a temperature of 350 F, but you don't serve them to people right out of the oven. Why does coffee get a free pass to be served at temperatures that cause third degree burns in only 2-7 seconds of contact, as in the famous McDonald's case?

Because that's not true. As she testified in court, she sat in the spilled coffee for 90 seconds. Should every cup of joe come with a "do not sit in coffee" warning?

It would be one thing if McDonald's was selling cups of molten lava with a warning that clearly said, "Don't let the stuff touch you until it cools, you freaking morons!" but one generally expects FOOD to be safe to touch to your body.

Coffee is hot. So is tea, hot chocolate, and lots of other things. They can all be consumed safely. The rate of injury for McD's coffee is 1 per 24 MILLION cups, and the vast majority of those injuries are when McD's employees spill coffee on customers. How do all these millions of people drink coffee without injury? BECAUSE THEY AREN'T A BUNCH OF IDIOTS!

Also, it should be easy to add cream and sugar to a cup of coffee without dumping it all over yourself. McDonald's had bad lid design in that respect too.

Bullshit. The woman put the coffee between her legs, took the lid off, then spilled it, then sat in it for 90 seconds. Why didn't she put the coffee in one of the many cupholders in the vehicle?

In addition to being clumsy, she is an idiot.

Furthermore, documents produced in court showed the McD's was well aware of the fact that other customers had suffered third degree burns from their product and continued to sell it in an unsafe manner.

Really? Millions upon millions of people can testify to the safety of McD's coffee. The coffee is sold in an insulated container, to adults, with a lid securely attached, and a "caution Hot" warning on top.

They even alleged in court that people who buy coffee mostly take it home or to work and drink it there instead of in the court (which frankly doesn't pass the laugh test).

Maybe they do, but that's irrelevant.

No, McDonald's was clearly negligent, if not reckless, in their behavior and deserved to be punished for it.

This is the kind of whining bullshit that makes you treat adults as if they were 5 year old children.

Coffee isn't a product that should be that risky to purchase and consume.

So, one in 24 million isn't safe enough for you? One in 50M? One in 100M?

How exactly does serving coffee at 185 F do anything positive for the customer?

It will taste like crap at 140F, that's why.

Re:lawsuits...

[Lifthrasir]

Well, the cold milk is only added if you take milk, and if you drink instant then there is no several minutes worth of brewing.

The point is she was given a drink that she knew was hot and didn't handle it with due care. How hot it was really doesn't matter - that's why you test the drink before you gulp it down (or pour it on your crotch).

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm assuming this is trolling, but I want to clarify anyway. She wasn't driving. She was in the passenger seat. AND the car was stopped. Poor lid design and hotter than standard temperatures led to quick third degree burns.

Not completely true.

The vehicle was stopped, she put the coffee between her legs (why not a cupholder?), took off the lid, then spilled the coffee, then (by her own admission) sat in the coffee for 90 seconds.

Get the full story. http://stellaawards.com/stella.html
http://overlawyered.com/2005/10/urban-legends-and-stella-liebeck-and-the-mcdonalds-coffee-case/

Re:lawsuits...

[hardburn]

If I'm going to risk accidently slashing my wrists, there better be a better reward than a 1GB memory card that I already paid for.

More to the point:

• Dieing while driving a Koenigsegg sideways and on fire: Awsome
• Dieing while trying to get a cell phone battery out of its packaging: Not Awsome

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

The point of the Liebeck case wasn't that the coffee was hot -- she expected that much -- but that it was significantly hotter than coffee is supposed to be. Coffee served at industry standard temperature can sit on bare skin for quite a while without causing more than a mild burn (redness and tenderness),

Not true.

whereas coffee served at the temperature that Ms. Liebeck's coffee was served at can cause third degree burns (requiring skin graft surgery) in as little as 2 seconds.

By her own admission, Ms. Liebeck sat in the coffee for 90 seconds. Should McD's put a "do not sit in coffee" warning on every cup?

If you want an intelligent discussion of coffee industry standards, read http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=7th&navby=docket&no=974131

In other words, coffee is dangerous, but this coffee was significantly more dangerous, therefore she should have been warned.

She was warned. There was a "caution hot" warning on the coffee lid.

Re:lawsuits...

[ceoyoyo]

Fine. Use a Dremel instead.

Re:lawsuits...

[Dan541]

Not everyone has a pair of tin snips, but most people have knives. It is still pretty foolish that we must hack our way through all sorts of packaging just to get at the product.

Re:lawsuits...

[Creepy Crawler]

I work at Starbucks. In fact, I worked there this morning from 5am to noon. I've worked there for a few years, so I know what Im doing there.

Our coffee is between 190F-200F. We only hold it for 30 minutes, and it's warmed during that time. Also, when telling customers how to brew coffee, we recommend 190-200F, unlike green tea, coffee needs very hot water to unlock the flavor. However, we steam lattes only to 180 before giving dire warnings to customers who want hotter. Ill usually say "Grande SCALDING mocha" or something to warn the drinker.

Ill say this: only a moron puts a boiling cup of X liquid between their legs. Everybody knows coffee is SUPPOSED to be hot. Now, however, lid deign does indeed suck, and fair to sue over. Especially how many lids crack at Sbux. During rush (7-9 am), I perhaps, deal with around 10 defective lids. They could easily cause insta-burning spill.

Re:lawsuits...

[Waffle Iron]

I'm out and it doesn't get served to me HOT, I send it back. I asked for a HOT drink, not a luke-warm drink.

I just don't get why people say they want a drink boiling HOT. There's no point in drinking it until it drops below 140F anyway, otherwise you'll scald your tongue. What point is there having to wait 10 minutes before you can drink it? That certainly makes normal coffee temperatures hot enough; there's no reason to serve it at near boiling.

What makes matters worse for McDonald's is the fact that they put their overly hot coffee (yes, they still serve it too hot for any practical purpose) into an insulated foam cup with a lid. There's little opportunity for it to cool either by conduction or evaporation, and left on its own it won't cool to a reasonable temperature within half an hour. Trying to blow it cool through the tiny hole they put in the lid won't work. The only way to drink it is to take the lid completely off (carefully, because they fill it to the brim) and blow on it for 5 minutes. That doesn't work at all in a car, and it wastes time if you eat in the restaurant.

Re:lawsuits...

[eeyoredragon]

Yah... I know all about the hot coffee lawsuit... I have lawyer friends. They get hard ons explaining how it was not as irrational as it sounded to people that have yet to hear it. You'll notice I did not say it was frivolous. I simply asked why someone brought that one forth but people gashing up their hands and/or ruining their purchases are not. Frivolous or not, someone looked at their situation and said "I just got burned by by spilling coffee on myself. I think I'll sue." Where're the people doing the same over this ridiculous packaging?

I am glad at least to give you the little bit of pleasure to post The Truth to everyone else on slashdot... Bravo :)

Re:lawsuits...

[titzandkunt]

Word!

I can't even believe that someone was enough of a pussy to even post the origninal!

MAIMED, FFS! like missing a finger or an eye! How fucking clumsy or stupid would you have to be? Oh, right - as clumsy and stupid as the OP...

Fucking hell, Darwin must be rotating at 50,000rpm right now...

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

I missed the part where she went and poured the coffee on her legs, so I'm going to chalk that up to desperate rationalization on your part. You probably also think Ayn Rand was a philosopher.
captcha: cyanide, how fitting.

Re:lawsuits...

[Z34107]

There is no way that I have discovered to get into a clamshell without running the risk of serious injury either from the metal blade that I have to use to cut it, or the plastic blade that is formed when using scissors and always ends up pointing into the path of my oncoming hand.

Some people weren't meant to open packages, and others will just never be destined to wield scissors. Which are you? ^.^

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with your "personal accountability" is that you are applying an arbitrary criteria and focusing solely on one party. Using your criteria and method we will always find fault with the alleged victim in any case where the other party was passive rather than active.

In short, your myopic view means negligence does not exist. People are free to act in unreasonable manner causing all sorts of harm as long as that harm is always indirect. (For you this apparently goes double if you can conflate the victim's wishes with a general consumer demand, such as that for hot coffee.)

By way of analogy, a bar finds a new method to serve drinks faster, with the unfortunate side effect that the lips of the beer bottles are sometimes chipped. The bar has received complaints from customers who have cut themselves, but the bar has done nothing to resolve the problem. Now someone seriously cuts themselves.

In your world, the person who cut themselves should be "personally accountable" because they should have known that glass can cut people. Never mind that it is completely unreasonable to serve beer in chipped bottles just because people want their beer fast.

It's just as unreasonable to serve coffee at temperatures that result in third degree burns just because people want hot coffee. It's especially unreasonable to do so with known complaints, using inferior lids, and really using lids at all which is an admission that you know the liquid is likely to spill!

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

You can dance around it all you like... but it doesn't change the end result. People every day are injured in some way by this "two plastic bubbles melted together" method of packaging. Because it practically requires bladed weapons to open.

Really. How many people are injured every day by packaging? They don't require bladed weapons to open. Get some small straight stainless steel scissors. They will easily cut the package open.

Have you ever tried opening a can of sardines? Each can comes with a special key to open the can. But the key rips off a ribbon of razor sharp steel! Probably millions of people die each year from sardine cans! Why aren't sardine cans banned? And what about cans of dog food and cans of beans? They can have very sharp edges!

Would you be happy if all packaging was replaced by wet noodles and sheets of wet tissue paper? That should be safe right?

Re:lawsuits...

[olman]

Jeez. Somehow I've been able to manage for years with ordinary skissors. Granted, some blisters are more obnoxious than others but most succumb easily enough with ordinary household skissors.

Now and again you run into something that uses just too thick plastic and you may have to reach for a bigger set of scissors but some on..

Re:lawsuits...

[Green Salad]

Snips AND heavy work gloves? Simpler to use sharks with laser-beams attached to their heads.

Re:lawsuits...

[jabuzz]

I would point out that tea is routinely served much hotter than her cup of coffee was served. I would also like to say I find that most coffee served is luke warm and not hot. Though maybe that is because I am primarily a tea drinker and expect my tea to be close to boiling when served.

Re:lawsuits...

[jabuzz]

That is the biggest pile of rubbish I have ever heard. A cup of tea that has fallen below 80 Celsius is frankly cold. Any colder than 60 Celsius and it is undrinkable.

Tea as it comes out the put is in excess of 95 Celsius, and millions of people drink it all the time without getting burnt.

It helps if you don't put it between your legs, drive off, spill it all over yourself, and then proceed to sit in it for over a minute.

Re:lawsuits...

[Hognoxious]

I tried a scalpel but if the plastic is thick the blade can break. Best think I've found so far is poultry shears.

Re:lawsuits...

[apoc.famine]

If you haven't used a pair of these then you're missing out on what scissors are supposed to be like. I've never had much problem with blister packs while using them. Night and day from the old, smooth-bladed heavy kitchen shears of my youth. These don't slip off things.

Re:lawsuits...

[CrimsonAvenger]

I dunno about you, but I've found a fair percentage of these packages won't cut very easily with standard scissors,

I annoy my wife greatly by using her sewing shears. Better quality than your average pair of scissors, and worth every penny of it.

Re:lawsuits...

[fredklein]

I wish I had mod points.

The ladder is frivolous in comparison

The LATTER...

The coffee case has largely been misrepresented in popular media.

No, it has been misrepresentated by softies like you.

Liebeck, the plaintiff, suffered third degree burns on her thighs, buttocks, and genitals.

No one disputes that. It's a horrible thing to get burned. But it was her own fault.

There have been frivolous lawsuits, definitely true. The scalding coffee was not.

Incorrect.

Other coffee vendors around the city were, at the highest temperature, 20 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than McDonald's coffee.

Also incorrect. Doing even a tiny bit of research will show that McDonalds was brewing and serving their coffee at the correct temperature, which was the same temperature other placed brew/serve theirs.

Re:lawsuits...

[pyite]

I missed the part where she went and poured the coffee on her legs, so I'm going to chalk that up to desperate rationalization on your part.

Spilling it on her legs and deliberately pouring it on her legs are effectively one in the same. Both are her fault, not McDonald's fault, and not anyone else's fault. Her fault.

Re:lawsuits...

[Waffle Iron]

Alright, Einstein. Why don't you go chug down a "cold" 80C mug of tea. That'll shut you up.

Re:lawsuits...

[BronsCon]

I know a guy named Habib who owns many box cutters.

No scissors, though.

Wonder what he has all those box cutters for, I've never seen a box in his house.

He must get a lot of deliveries after hours.

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably the coffee had been reheated in a microwave. One hazard of heating liquids this way is that you can make them superhot [wikipedia.org] without causing them to boil.

I've seen that happen. I microwaved a cup of plain water for tea for 2 minutes and ended up chatting with a co-worker. I noticed the water had cooled somewhat so I nuked it again for about 45-60 seconds (not sure). We kept chatting. Nuked it again for about 20-45 seconds. Kept chatting. I may have quit there or nuked it one more time. Not sure. When I took it out of the microwave it looked normal but the cup seemed very hot. I went to get a tea bag and in the process jostled the cup a little and then there was a sudden FWOOOSH and a spray of water everywhere. It evaporated instantly leaving behind no water in the cup. The guy I was chatting with saw the whole thing so at least I had one witness who believed me.

Re:lawsuits...

[halcyon1234]

Creep Crawler says:

I work at Starbucks. In fact, I worked there this morning from 5am to noon

on Tuesday November 04, 12:47AM

Go to bed man! Or at least have a cup of coffee handy in the morning...

Re:lawsuits...

[Malc]

Dunno about green tea (I imagined it to be the same), but most teas I drink are meant to be made with vigorously boiling water. In fact, at a temperature higher than that used for coffee. Most places in the US only use hot water (and offer creamer/cream, not milk - yuck!), and coupled with the ubiquitous shit from Lipton, makes for disgusting tea. The breakfast time tea from Starbucks ain't bad actually, but could be made better with hotter (boiling) water.

As for the drinking coffee in the car... you get what you deserve. You're not in complete control of your vehicle, nor the cup of coffee apparently. Definitely agree with your moron comment.

Re:lawsuits...

[swillden]

Bandsaw

Re:lawsuits...

[Rary]

You're kind of supporting the point. Tea is, as you said, "routinely" served much hotter than her cup of coffee. However, coffee is not "routinely" served at that temperature. Therefore, a tea drinker could reasonably be expected to be aware of the tea's temperature when it's being served that hot, whereas a coffee drinker could not reasonably be expected to be aware of it.

The point is reasonable expectation. You would handle a cup of room temperature water differently than you would handle a cup of scalding hot water. Similarly, you would handle a glass of hot water that would hurt if it was spilled on you differently than you would handle a glass of water so hot that a single drop would kill you instantly. Although this scenario is obviously exaggerated, the point is that this coffee was hotter than one could reasonably expect it to be.

It's worth noting that the jury found Ms. Liebeck partially responsible. It's also worth noting that prior to this case, McDonald's had spent half a million dollars settling 700 other similar cases (the reason people know about the Liebeck case is because it was the first to go to trial). Clearly, they were aware that their coffee was particularly dangerous, but chose to do nothing about it. That fact likely contributed to the jury's decision.

Re:lawsuits...

[noidentity]

Give it up; this case is merely an opportunity for most people to see what they want to see in it, facts be damned. Apparently the temperature of the coffee is irrelevant, just the fact that the customer was imperfect and thus deserved however much surgery was necessary.

Re:lawsuits...

[ceoyoyo]

Ah, the tool with the highest affinity for fingers known to man. My favourite since high school shop. Excellent suggestion!

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

The ladder is frivolous in comparison.

I can't afford a hydraulic lift, you insensitive clod.

Re:lawsuits...

[jbburks]

You should sue the microwave maker, the cup maker, your employer and the co-worker standing beside you.

SOMEONE has to be responsible for your pain, fear and anguish - they have to pay for what you suffered.

That's what I get from the Stella story.

Coffee supposed to be hot. It is. Patron spills. McDonald's fault. From now on, only cold coffee can be served.

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

190 to 200 degrees Fahrenheit? Oh! So, that's the temperature required to unlock the special Starbucks' "cigarette ashes" flavor in coffee! ...I always thought it was because they burnt the ever loving crap out of the beans when they roasted them. All this time I was so wrong.

Re:lawsuits...

[ACMENEWSLLC]

If I see two products next to each other and one has obviously difficult packaging, and the other does not, my decision will have bias towards the packaging that I won't have to fight to open.

I hate how difficult it is to open up a CD/DVD after purchase. And the fact that opening the packaging often breaks the cheap jewel case.

Re:lawsuits...

[EvanED]

How many people are injured every day by packaging?

According to this article, about 200,000 in 2001. (That's about 550/day.)

Colbert had a great but brief segment a while back (0:55).

Re:lawsuits...

[LordVader717]

I have never seen a clamshell packaging with instructions on how to open the product.
While there may be specific tools which allow themn to be opened with reasonable safety, but 99% of people won't know any better way than a knife or household scissors (usually small, lightweight and blunt)
With things like an SD card, many people will want to use it immediately after purchase when they don't even have scissors available.

Re:lawsuits...

[wkk2]

Get a band saw or tell the store you won't buy unless they open the package. I've asked stores to open packages since pocket knives can't be taken on airplanes.

Re:lawsuits...

[Anonymous Coward]

Chainsaw?

Re:lawsuits...

[BronsCon]

I'll concede that the above is offtopic, but really, troll?

Hell, I'm not even sure it was offtopic, as parent was talking about boxcutters.

Funny's what I was going for.

Re:lawsuits...

[fm6]

We can argue about what might have happened forever. The crucial detail is that she was served coffee hot enough to put her in the hospital with serious burns. Not scalds, burns.

There are certainly a lot of laughable lawsuits out there. This just wasn't one of them, despite popular mythology.

Re:lawsuits...

[Creepy Crawler]

It depends...

In general, green tea tends to bring out more bitterness if you use too hot water. 135-170 seems the best for green tea types. Of course, the more delicate the tea, the cooler the water. For example, I love drinking matcha in a tea ceremony. We use bamboo whisks, along with tepid (135-140F) water.

Now, black tea is the one you want hot water for. 190-205 is the best, as is fairly short steeping time. These can get rather powerful and bitter quick if you dont pull out in 2.5-3 minutes. One tea that even 2 minutes is too long for is lapsang sotchung. Everybody talks about "cigarette butt coffee" at Sbux, but sotchung IS burnt... well, smoked actually. Even a minute is too long steeping for even me (and I drink long shots all the time- long as 2x the time it should normally take).

One tea, if you can find it, is a black-like tea from north India called Nilgiri. At first, I thought it was a synthesis of black and green, but is true black. If you use a decent amount in a french press and brew it as you would coffee, then add equal part water, and then chill it and pour it over ice as it makes the best iced tea I've ever tasted. Because it is a green-like black, I'd recommend around 180F for the water.. I tried 200F and it had that burnt taste.

Re:lawsuits...

[Creepy Crawler]

My mistake.. Nilgiri is from south India.

Re:lawsuits...

[Creepy Crawler]

I ended up taking the semester off for financial reasons, so Im now working a bit more. However, Im working all shifts, including our over night.

The nice thing is I had today off :) And even on early mornings, I routinely stay up to about midnight, because I can always get sleep after my shift.

Re:lawsuits...

[mattack2]

Molten lava at McDonald's? Isn't that essentially what the old (deep fried) apple pies were?

Re:lawsuits...

[pyite]

We can argue about what might have happened forever. The crucial detail is that she was served coffee hot enough to put her in the hospital with serious burns. Not scalds, burns.

I really find this laughable. The coffee couldn't have been any hotter than about 100 degrees celsius. Guess what, when I get coffee or tea, I expect it to be that temperature. Only a retard wouldn't.

Re:lawsuits...

[bill_mcgonigle]

Our coffee is between 190F-200F

Can somebody explain drinking scalding hot coffee to me? I brew mine just north of 190 (best my Cuisinart can muster, unless I'm in the rare vacpot mood) but drink it about 130.

I don't enjoy burned tongue. I seem to be in a minority.

Re:lawsuits...

[ProfFalcon]

How do you open the package the tin snips came in, smarty?

Re:lawsuits...

[Creepy Crawler]

Ugh...

To unlock coffee's flavor, you need HOT water. About 190-200F. It doesnt need to stay at that, because about 60% of our clientèle has some sort of milk additives. After that, it's more on the range of 175-180F, as many people like a LOT of milk. And a note: at Sbux, come in to get your coffee. Dont go through the drive through for Brews. (cant be stressed enough) If the urns are blinking, it means they're expired. The heating element turns off. Once, at another store, I ordered a cup of coffee and it was luke-warm..Judging by the temp, id say it was expired for 3+ hours.

Now, yes, Im used to drinking near-boiling coffee. I use a percolator at home when I want a superb coffee, and a lot. A french press only makes about 32 oz (not enough for 2-3 heavy drinkers). And out of the perc-pot, it IS boiling. I drink it, no additives, in less than a minute. Have been since the 6th grade, when I had my coffeecup on my bookbag. Course, I drank folgers then (ugh).

Maybe it's just my mouth. I love super-spicy foods, along with piping hot drinks. My big complaints are when drinks that are supposed to be hot arent hot enough.

Re:lawsuits...

[bill_mcgonigle]

After that, it's more on the range of 175-180F, as many people like a LOT of milk

Ah, that's probably it, I don't add anything to my coffee after roasting my own for a few years. If I'm reduced to buying coffee out ('reduced' ala Dunkin Donuts, not the good local places) I can usually get them to add a few pieces of ice for me, otherwise it sits in its styrofoam in my cup holder for twenty minutes to get to a drinkable temperature. If I take it straight out of the pot, I get burns that last 2-3 days. Different biochemistry I suppose.

Re:lawsuits...

[Creepy Crawler]

---Ah, that's probably it, I don't add anything to my coffee after roasting my own for a few years.

I thought of doing that myself, but the work involved seems too much.. However, I have heard tremendously good things doing it this way though. I'd hate ruining a few pounds getting it right though.

---If I'm reduced to buying coffee out ('reduced' ala Dunkin Donuts, not the good local places) I can usually get them to add a few pieces of ice for me, otherwise it sits in its styrofoam in my cup holder for twenty minutes to get to a drinkable temperature.

Usually, if I order coffee out, I try to go Sbux or another independent that offers french presses for about 3$. If you go Sbux, you can get any coffee (even the Black Apron, which is about 30$/lb) in french press. I'd rather have that, and know the process makes fresh great brew. We also have indie's that I go to also that make some rather damned good french brews.

I've also heard about the Clover System, which is some sort of automated french press. Ive heard of a store in the Indianapolis area have one, but no Sbuxes. The buzz on the Sbux rumor site is we're getting them, and soon. This is something to look forward for, from what I've heard. It's already on the registers and ready for us to start ringing up, but no word as of yet....

---If I take it straight out of the pot, I get burns that last 2-3 days. Different biochemistry I suppose.

Im just used to drinking it very hot.. Could be just me ^_^

Re:lawsuits...

[bill_mcgonigle]

I thought of doing that myself, but the work involved seems too much.. However, I have heard tremendously good things doing it this way though. I'd hate ruining a few pounds getting it right though.

It's cheap learning. A $5 pound of green will give you several batches to experiment. After discarding fancy equipment I now use a Lodge cast iron pan on a gas BBQ grill (outside, smoke is tremendous). Stir somewhat frequently, it'll crack like rice crispies once, stop, then do it again. At that point you'll be about Full City, and can keep going for an Italian(WIN) or French. Cool immediately with a ceramic dish or a fan.

I prefer to do blends and keep charts to get them right. But a single-source coffee like a generic Mexican or Tasmanian peaberry can be nice too. Sweet Marias has good stuff for small quantities.

Anybody with a sign in the window saying 'fresh brewed, roasted today!' is engaging in hype. The flavor continues to develop for about two days. Then brew at least 190, even better with a vacuum.

Be careful, though, you won't be able to go back.

Re:lawsuits...

[badkarmadayaccount]

Laser beams attached to their heads? What, do they attack light saber style? And how the hell do they stop the light in mid-[air]/[water]? A laser, i.e. the device would be much more practical to mount on a sharks head, not to mention following through on the canon set by the original meme.

Re:lawsuits...

[Lost Race]

Ill say this: only a moron puts a boiling cup of X liquid between their legs. Everybody knows coffee is SUPPOSED to be hot.

This is a dangerous attitude that we must all try to avoid. "I work with this stuff for a living, 8 hours a day, day in day out, and everybody who isn't as familiar with it as I am is a MORON." Guess what, laymen are by definition less familiar with the subject than professionals. Maybe the old lady wasn't a regular coffee drinker, and had only had lukewarm coffee before. I sure wouldn't expect some random food item from a drive-through to be lethal (McDonalds food quality jokes aside).

I can understand where the attitude comes from, I mean it's frustrating having to explain the same obvious goddamn thing to an endless stream of ignorant people who just never seem to get a clue, but you have to realize that it's not the same clue-resistant person over and over again. What's old to you may be new to me. (And vice-versa; I'll try to take it easy on you when you wander into my field of expertise.)

Re:lawsuits...

[Creepy Crawler]

Fair enough.. I'll give you that on cases of people ordering lattes. Lattes tend to scorch if you heat the milk over 180-185F. We're direly warned about that, not only for taste, but people Just Dont Expect lattes to be near-boiling. In fact, we dont even go over 180F unless a customer explicitly says XYZ temperature. That's the Just Say Yes policy. Then, after making it, I hand it to them "Grande bla bla BOILING (or burning or Burn hazard) Latte".

Now, hot coffee... Hmm.. Coffee is made to be very hot. It's like at McD. It's like that at Dunkin, and Burger King, and White Castle. Everybody knows Hot Coffee is Hot, hence the name. You add cream, it gets cooler. Our Bunn coffee maker regularly registers 202F as the ambient boiler temp on the coffee maker. Also, when one grabs it, you can feel the heat through the cup, the sleeve, and if you double-cup- the second cup. Our coffee's hot.

Now, as to superheating.. wont happen. Inside the Bunn warming boxes are welds that have somewhat jagged edges, so they encourage bubbles and surface area. The cups also have a strong seam alongside the cup that would also cause nucleation line. One hazard from th seam is if your drinkhole lines up with the seam... if it does, you now have brown-dribble shirt. I hate that :(

Now, as for specific fields, that's understandable if somebody doesnt know something... Take a look at any coffee cup. HOT! Scalding Hazard! CAREFUL! I could understand if you couldnt read, but just feeling the exterior of the cup is enough cue to watch out. After all, I once witnessed an accident where a ass-hole customer got the bright idea to squeeze the hot coffee cup out of my hands (he was running late and taking it out on us). Well, he squeezed hard ad I let go. Awww... some 1st degree burn. I had a damp towel which I handed to him and got him another coffee. I reported it, but he didnt want to: he knew he was being an ass and he knew it.

Re:lawsuits...

[Green Salad]

Hello? I need to be kept up to date on these things! Is that too much to ask?
 
Where's friggin button for your chair?

They could also call this

[amRadioHed]

"Laceration-Free Packaging" as far as that cursed clamshell packaging goes. I hate that crap, good riddance.

Re:They could also call this

[Cassius Corodes]

This is an outrage! I demand hard to open packaging! If you can open it with your bare hands / normal scissors its just not good enough.

Re:They could also call this

[Martin Blank]

Just use a bandsaw. That way, when you cut off your own fingers, it's your own fault.

Re:They could also call this

[sking]

And I always figured that this packaging would end when someone hijacked a plane with it.

Re:They could also call this

[Anonymous Coward]

That's funny, I thought "Frustration-Free Packaging" was a pseudonym for a torrent file.

Re:They could also call this

[iminplaya]

Hell, they could build the plane with it, and you could probably land the thing a hell of lot harder without breaking anything, except a few bones maybe.

Re:They could also call this

[amRadioHed]

I hope the TSA isn't reading this. Holiday travel is bad enough without them confiscating our gifts.

Re:They could also call this

[Valdrax]

The devilish side of me hopes they ARE buying into that idea because I can't think of any better way to ensure the rest of my life is free from horrid packaging than one ruined Christmas.

One holiday seems a fair sacrifice for thousands of more convenient purchases over the next few decades of my life.

Re:They could also call this

[Anonymous Coward]

i think that was watchable movie, or playable computer game :}

I'll be happy if...

[NonSequor]

I never accidentally cut the cord of something while opening the packaging with a pair of scissors.

Knowing that you've accidentally ruined something worth $50 or more is a horrible feeling.

Re:I'll be happy if...

[afidel]

Turn in your geek card, a soldering iron and heat shrink tubing will fix any power cord from 28AWG to about 2 gauge.

Re:I'll be happy if...

[NonSequor]

I can't help it! I'm a discrete math major. I'm like 5 layers away from the soldering iron!

Re:I'll be happy if...

[Anonymous Coward]

Turn in your geek card. A short will develope and the cord will get hot and degrade the heat shrink and the now molten hot solder will work it's way to something vital such as the expensive rackmount server that some schmuck put under it. *banghead*
Wow, no one told me a breaker could fail to trip long enough to do that....

Replacing the cord is optimal, using the proper crimped splice, the proper heat shrink and heat shrinking technique is the next best. Last now and forever is a soldered connection on anything AC except in a carefully controlled location with redundant fuses. That would be inside the electronics. Any engineer that does NOT use redundant fuses should be dragged out and dipped in molten solder. That's you you crisco using Cisco cretins!

Re:I'll be happy if...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've always wondered, with someone being told to turn in a geek card for something trivial in nearly every thread on Slashdot, where do they all go? Are they redistributed to approved candidates, or is there just a pile of them somewhere foretelling the eventual extinction of the card-carrying geek?

Re:I'll be happy if...

[afidel]

They go to junior geeks who prove their worth with a worthy hack.

Re:I'll be happy if...

[moosesocks]

....if you're doing that with 2 gauge, it's going to take a hell of a lot of solder and heatshrink to hold it together.

Seriously. If you're working with cables that carry enough power to mandate a conductor with a 1/4" diameter, let the pros take care of it. You'd also likely want something a bit thicker than heatshrink to insulate it.

(A typical extension cord is ~14AWG = 0.06")

Re:I'll be happy if...

[Firehed]

If he has a knife sharp enough to accidentally cut through 2 gauge wire, we should probably let him keep his geek card.

Re:I'll be happy if...

[lysergic.acid]

i'm not an electronics geek (i'm more of a web developer/graphic designer by trade), so i'm a little curious; how hard, or easy, is it to repair a damaged cable?

i have a couple A/mini-B USB cables that no longer work or are extremely temperamental. i'd love to be able to fix these with a soldering iron rather than having to replace them. it'd also be nice to be able to repair damaged cellphone charger cables rather than having to fork over another $20-30 for a brand new charger.

do other slashdotters have any experience with fixing damaged USB cables or cellphone chargers? would it be difficult for the average person to repair them with a soldering iron?

Re:I'll be happy if...

[afidel]

Ok, realistically I used connector blocks for 2 gauge, it was a bit of hyperbole =)

Re:I'll be happy if...

[afidel]

USB cables wouldn't work well, too high of frequency. Cellphone chargers aren't hard to fix. Just snip out any damaged pieces and strip the insulation back then use crimp connectors or solder to connect the two new ends then heat shrink it. I personally find very small wires don't stay well in crimp connectors so I solder them.

Re:I'll be happy if...

[Tibor the Hun]

whoo boy, did your parents ever roll the useless numbers. Hah, what else? +4 dexterity, but -2 charisma?

Re:I'll be happy if...

[ColdWetDog]

Yes, they are hard to repair - probably not worth it. Most of the problems are located at one of the connectors. On modern, mass produced cables, these are molded plastic. On most modern, cheapass, Chinese mass produced cables, there is no functional strain relief so after the weeney little thing has been yanked out of the socket a couple of hundred times, the connection breaks at the pivot point.

You COULD carefully scrape down the plastic, find the break and solder the thing but it probably would break again and the whole thing would take way more time than it's worth. You can buy USB connectors designed to be hand soldered, but that's a pretty masochistic way to spend your life.

Now, if your pet hamster chewed through the cord itself - that would be an easy repair. In general, it ain't worth it.

Re:I'll be happy if...

[afidel]

How the heck will a soldered connection develop a short under heat shrink tubing or electric tape?

Re:I'll be happy if...

[petermgreen]

Turn in your geek card. A short will develope and the cord will get hot and degrade the heat shrink and the now molten hot solder will work it's way to something vital such as the expensive rackmount server that some schmuck put under it. *banghead*
Seems pretty damn unlikely to me, shorts tend to produce a very large spike of current followed by a tripped breaker or blown fuse

Re:I'll be happy if...

[TooMuchToDo]

I demand a star on my geek card than. I would dare to solder a one aught (0 AWG) cable if need be. =)

Re:I'll be happy if...

[JET 666]

the easiest way is to find a place like http://www.monoprice.com/

Re:I'll be happy if...

[JET 666]

do you have a sonic screwdriver, too?

Re:I'll be happy if...

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

It's true. Mathematics is the refuge of Geeks who never got to play with hardware.

Re:I'll be happy if...

[bruce_the_loon]

Unless you're on a slow curve breaker, designed to handle the surge of a UPS or HVAC starting up and only trip after a 2 minute overload, that some idiot has installed on the wrong circuit. Been there, cleaned up the charred cables.

Re:I'll be happy if...

[MadMidnightBomber]

And I'm an indiscreet math major.

BTW, it's not, hard - take hold of the plastic bit of the soldering iron and poke the heatshrink with the warm end.

Re:I'll be happy if...

[silent_artichoke]

Ok, that's one...

I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye!

[Scutter]

*sniff* I never thought the day would come!

Seriously, as a parent, I've seen packaging on kids toys get progressively worse. Not just ultrasonic-sealed plastic clamshells, but toys attached to cardboard boxes with dozens (sometimes over a hundred) wire twist-ties and highly strecthy rubber-band-like straps.

It took me over an hour just to de-package ONE toy for my kid last Christmas. Seriously, there is no excuse for such obnoxious packaging. I, for one, will be keeping a close eye on this initiative and it will likely make me look at Amazon first for my purchases.

Child-proof packaging

[Brian.Kirby]

Now the next thing they need to research is child-proof frustration-free packaging...

Re:Child-proof packaging

[LostCluster]

No, they don't. Children don't have credit cards and therefore can't shop at Amazon without adult supervision.

Shoplifting

[Bios_Hakr]

The current trend in packaging was for two reasons. It allowed the consumer to actually *see* the produce he/she was getting. And it reduced shoplifting. Big box retailers (rhymes with ball-cart) pushed for these even though the consumer didn't want it.

Fortunately, sites like Amazon can now pressure manufacturers to go back to the more traditional packaging. Maybe I'll finally be able to wrap birthday gifts without needing an additional box/bag. And on Christmas morning, my hands won't be sore from opening 200 packages, cutting wire-ties and tie-wraps, and dealing with having to unscrew the frickin' battery compartments.

Re:Shoplifting

[wideBlueSkies]

If they went for the simpler packaging what would be there to help stop theft in the shipping warehouse, or on the UPS loading dock.

Hell, I just got an order from a retailer (clothing), and the box was clearly opened and retaped... when I opened it and counted the items, it turned out that 2 were missing. So they fell off the truck, one way or another.

Having a relative who works for UPS, I know for sure that this stuff happens all the time. When they load, they punch into random packages, and see what they can pull out.....

SO anyway to get to the the point, I'm all for the more secure packaging.

Re:Shoplifting

[blincoln]

SO anyway to get to the the point, I'm all for the more secure packaging.

Me too. Amazon's motive here seems like a good one, but there is no way I'm going to order items shipped in easily-identifiable, easily-opened packaging. It's too much of a hassle to deal with returns/wait for the delivery window to expire if someone steals some/all of the contents.

Re:Shoplifting

[xaxa]

I've ordered several items online that have been delivered in their normal, decorated boxes with a shipping label slapped on. Three of these are TFT screens, all have a big picture of a TFT on the side of the box.

I've also ordered flash drives etc from eBuyer, which have come loose (sometimes in an envelope, sometimes in a gigantic box, but with nothing more than a small plastic bag around the drive).

Maybe the dodgy couriers need to fire their dishonest employees (possibly put more CCTV in the depot, and track who delivers what and follow up reports of theft).

Re:Shoplifting

[Bios_Hakr]

My only answer for that is that you need to hold your shipping company accountable. Clear packaging and tie-wraps were never intended to stop theft in the transit system or warehouse theft. They are there to stop casual shoplifting. Clothing was never protected with the clear packaging.

To be specific, what we are talking about here is when (mostly) kids' toys come in the clear, celloplastic coverings or half-embedded in cardboard. The celloplastic is hard to open and frequently damages the opener or the item inside. The half-cardboard items are usually secured with 1/4" tie-wraps or twist-ties that can only be cut with wire cutters.

Re:Shoplifting

[petermgreen]

I was under the impression that the screw shut battery compartments on toys for younger children were a safety feature to stop them removing the battery and swallowing it.

Re:Shoplifting

[EvanED]

Amazon's motive here seems like a good one, but there is no way I'm going to order items shipped in easily-identifiable, easily-opened packaging.
TFA explicitly states that the mailed packages will have the standard Amazon brown box, possibly also with the vendor's name.

Re:Shoplifting

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of making packaging that's impossible to open to prevent theft, just prevent theft - period.

Put up a ton of cameras, offer a huge reward (profit!!) to anyone assisting in the capture of a thief (shop, warehouse) and make the punishment a lot harsher (like 20 years mandatory in a survival camp in the middle of the desert, jungle or arctic wasteland). That will either stop theft or make sure everybody that as much as think about it gets put away far away from anything to steal...

As drug abuse seems to be one of the major reasons people commit theft, make being under the influence of illegal drugs in public or at known drug hangouts in any way, shape or form illegal too, the punishment being prison combined with a 'cold turkey' detox where doctors only keeps the subject alive, nothing more. No withdrawal treatment (this is part of the punishment) at all.

Re:Shoplifting

[Anonymous Coward]

> my hands won't be sore from opening 200 packages

You get 200 Christmas presents? Bastard.

Re:Shoplifting

[WebCowboy]

If they went for the simpler packaging what would be there to help stop theft in the shipping warehouse, or on the UPS loading dock.

Large signs posted throughout the warehouse reminding employers that the area is under surveillance and that ANY act of theft (even first offense), of ANY value, is punishable by IMMEDIATE dismissal.

I've done work for warehouse/distributor customers before (inventory management systems etc) and that is common practice. Most of them were in food/grocery. I saw an angry foreman quite visibly fire someone right there in the loading dock for being caught stealing a chocolate bar.

These people are paid quite generously for doing a job that doesn't even require a complete high school education. They are being compensated for being in a position of trust, and as such being fired on the spot for stealing a chocolate bar seems appropriate to me. Certainly more appropriate than encasing such merchandise in a heavy-gauge, welded-shut plastic capsule.

Turnover is as high as you'd expect for such a job and stringent theft policies, but it works very well indeed. And if you think it sounds harsh, some companies opt to invest in automation and rid themselves of many of those jobs entirely.

Will they do this for DVDs?

[Animats]

Now Amazon needs to do this for DVDs. After all, Amazon doesn't have a shoplifting problem.

Given that DVDs are a shock-insensitive waterproof object shipped inside a rigid case, they should be mailed with far less packaging. A manila envelope would be sufficient. Most of the perimeter seals, "Security Device Enclosed", and shrink wrap could be dispensed with. One seal that's broken on opening would be enough to identify packages that have been opened.

Re:Will they do this for DVDs?

[ITEric]

If the companies do decide to address DVD packaging, I hope they do something about the little round disk retainers inside the package. I know the idea is to keep the DVD from falling out when you open the case, but do they have to make the retainers so difficult to release that one worries about breaking the disk trying to get it out?

Re:Will they do this for DVDs?

[russotto]

Given that DVDs are a shock-insensitive waterproof object shipped inside a rigid case, they should be mailed with far less packaging. A manila envelope would be sufficient.

A tyvek sleeve in an ordinary envelope is sufficient to mail a DVD. That's how Blockbuster Online mails theirs.

Re:Will they do this for DVDs?

[slashtivus]

If you lightly press on the center of the retainer while lifting the disk they come out very easily. (some will pop off on their own)

Re:Will they do this for DVDs?

[petermgreen]

I actually quite like DVD boxes, they are far more robust and go on and off shelves much smoother than CD cases.

I have seen a few different styles for the center hub but most I've seen recently seem to be designed so the disk pops off when you press them down.

Re:Will they do this for DVDs?

[compro01]

That's assuming the little retainer doesn't break when you press on it due to the plastic being too brittle.

Re:Will they do this for DVDs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because it's not being stolen at your house doesn't mean that Amazon doesn't lose product to shoplifting. There are many fulfillment centers all around the world, all of them staffed with pickers and packers. They have loss prevention folks, security guys and whatnot all over the place.

Re:Will they do this for DVDs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try pushing in on the centre button first. Some of them are designed to work exactly like that - pushing in releases the disk.

Re:Will they do this for DVDs?

[ITEric]

Yes, I know that's how they're supposed to work...my point is that very often they don't.

Re:Will they do this for DVDs?

[kehren77]

And Netflix. Although, I've received about 4 cracked discs from Netflix over the past 6 years.

For those of us with large collections, the case is a necessary evil unless we want to have to look through piles of discs to find the movie we want.

How about frustration free snack bags?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know what I mean. Plastic snack bags where the tops are fused together so tightly they're near impossible to open. When you apply the force required to get the top open then the cheap plastic bag splits all the way down to the bottom. Chips/pretzels spill out. Oh joy.

Re:How about frustration free snack bags?

[Captain Splendid]

MOD PARENT UP!

Why I'm treated like a criminal when all I want to do is dust the front of my Sephiroth t-shirt in Cheetos orange is something I'll never know!

Re:How about frustration free snack bags?

[clarkkent09]

Exactly. And how about yogurt packaging that doesn't spray your shirt with yogurt when you start peeling off the top? How about soda cans that you don't have to push the opening (that rats were peeing on back at the warehouse) into the soda itself? How about those fancy bottle caps that you are supposed to pull open and closed with your teeth so you only need one hand, except that there is no opening for air to enter the bottle, so when you start drinking you create a tug of war for soda between your mouth and the vacuum inside the increasingly flattened bottle? The list is endless...

Re:How about frustration free snack bags?

[xaxa]

Exactly. And how about yogurt packaging that doesn't spray your shirt with yogurt when you start peeling off the top? How about soda cans that you don't have to push the opening (that rats were peeing on back at the warehouse) into the soda itself? How about those fancy bottle caps that you are supposed to pull open and closed with your teeth so you only need one hand, except that there is no opening for air to enter the bottle, so when you start drinking you create a tug of war for soda between your mouth and the vacuum inside the increasingly flattened bottle? The list is endless...

1) Turn the yogurt around, then it'll spray the other way. No longer your problem!
2) You already have a choice for soda -- buy the bottled version.
3) Squeeze the bottle. Release to allow air back in.

Re:How about frustration free snack bags?

[iminplaya]

A box of cereal is packed the same way. It's more child proof than a bottle of Drano.

Re:How about frustration free snack bags?

[adavies42]

Ever notice how in ads for chips, the bags the actors are "eating" from were never sealed to begin with? Their tops are missing the little horizontal lines where the heat-sealer presses, and the clear bits where it separates asymmetrically when you open it? This has nothing to do with anything, I've just always found it interesting.

Re:How about frustration free snack bags?

[foo12]

Those are prop bags filled with product, not real bags taken off the shelf. I work for a prepress company which specializes in food packaging and we make hundreds of props for ad spots per year. Every bag, carton, etc. we do is a true one-off, tailored for a specific spot and assembled by hand. Those bags aren't even on the same substrate or printed using the same process as a real bag. It's all custom.

Re:How about frustration free snack bags?

[adavies42]

Interesting, I always figured it was something like that, though I was more envisioning someone just diverting a few dozen bags from the ordinary process.

Re:How about frustration free snack bags?

[frenchbedroom]

I've learned to open that kind of bag by grabbing the top and tearing through the seal, perpendicularly.

Re:How about frustration free snack bags?

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

How about soda cans that you don't have to push the opening (that rats were peeing on back at the warehouse) into the soda itself?

Perhaps, but be aware that rodent urine is probably more fit for consumption than the soda.

Re:How about frustration free snack bags?

[smoker2]

1)Open the pot facing away from you
2)They do that because people got cut on the ring pulls and also threw them on the ground.
3)Try squeezing the bottle instead of sucking the liquid.

Not everything is someone elses fault. How about those cars where the reverse gear is right next to the forward gears ? Or those stupid lights that expect you stop and let other people use the road ? The list is endless.

I'm really looking forward to the breakdown of civilisation. The majority of people will be dead within a month because they have NO COMMON SENSE !
Anybody with half a brain will be living in paradise. There was a time when people knew how to look after themselves without relying on corporations to wipe their arses and give them a tit to suck on.

Re:How about frustration free snack bags?

[foo12]

Nope -- we even strip down the art to optimize it for an ad spot. Another one to watch for is cereal commercials -- the inside of the box is white instead of grey/brown of kraft paper.

This will get me to shift buying habits

[Basilius]

I haven't shopped Amazon all that much recently (used to be a big customer, but just slowly drifted awa) but this will bring me back if it gets widespread.

As a parent of two children under 5, I believe the person who invented those wire-wrap fasteners should be shot, drawn, quartered, and hung from the neck until dead. In whichever order is most convenient.

Re:This will get me to shift buying habits

[Tubal-Cain]

...I believe the person who invented those wire-wrap fasteners should be shot, drawn, quartered, and hung from the neck until dead. In whichever order is most convenient.

Bad idea. The most convenient order is not necessarily the most painful.

Re:This will get me to shift buying habits

[mabhatter654]

how about twist-tied and rubber banded inside a plastic & cardboard package filled with red army ants.

There's a cheap solution to this

[Krishnoid]

I heard this product mentioned elsewhere. It's inexpensive enough that I'm thinking of buying one and asking a cashier to keep it under their counter at a local electronics store I frequent.

Re:There's a cheap solution to this

[Fez]

I have a couple of these and they really do work well. Between that and a pair of cutters for wire ties, I can open almost anything in under a minute. Including convoluted child toy packaging.

Toy packaging these days is far, far worse than the plastic clamshell. Dozens of industrial strength wire ties, miles of tape, plastic screwed into other plastic through cardboard, plastic pull-tabs, and obnoxiously shaped boxes. They make me pine for simple hand-slicing clamshells.

Re:There's a cheap solution to this

[Spy der Mann]

Call me paranoid, but I have the slight suspicion that the guys who invented this product are the same ones that sell clam packaging machines.

Let's hope not, but at least we can be sure that clam package openers are an artificial need in the same way antiviruses are an artificial need for Windows systems.

Re:There's a cheap solution to this

[Anonymous Coward]

I just use my Spyderco, I keep that in my pocket all the time anyways.

Re:There's a cheap solution to this

[TheGratefulNet]

I have a couple of these and they really do work well. Between that and a pair of cutters for wire ties, I can open almost anything in under a minute. Including convoluted child toy packaging.

I say, let the convolutes open their own damned toys! ;)

Re:There's a cheap solution to this

[hab136]

I heard this product mentioned elsewhere. It's inexpensive enough that I'm thinking of buying one and asking a cashier to keep it under their counter at a local electronics store I frequent.

If you're not a complete butterfingers, you can do the same thing with a box cutter which is $0.89. Bonus: you can detach the razor blade and use it to clean off old stickers on your car windshield.

Re:There's a cheap solution to this

[Anonymous Coward]

Bonus: you can detach the razor blade and use it to clean off old stickers on your car windshield.

Yes that works, but a dry razor against glass is bad. Use windex or some type of glass cleaner on the area first. It reduces friction and the risk of putting major scratches on the window.

Another (albeit safer) trick to clean glass, is steel wool and glass cleaner. It's good for removing that thick smokey residue off the interior of car windows. Despite being abrasive, wetted steel wool wont scratch glass. (don't reuse steel wool that might have other stuff in it, obviously)

Re:There's a cheap solution to this

[silent_artichoke]

Use hydrogen peroxide and the glue will come off very cleanly with the razor.

Better opener

[Thaelon]

That thing on thinkgeek is a piece of crap. It's a flimsy knife with a weird handle. This is much more effective. And cheaper (since you get three). And you can cut metal with them. They're called tin snips. AKA, the manly alternative to the overpiced ones designed by and for women.

Re:Better opener

[Anpheus]

Isn't it slightly disparaging that there exists widespread, near universal packaging that requires an implement that cuts metal to properly open?

Re:Better opener

[Anpheus]

You know, someone is going to word nazi me and say, "Disparaging is the wrong word" but I meant toward the consumer, hope that clarifies it. It's insulting to the people receiving the product.

Re:Better opener

[VanGarrett]

I would find it amusingly ironic if the package opening device referenced happens to come in a clamshell.

Re:Better opener

[dazlari]

Yet another simple (no moving parts) cheap (US$4:50) device for slicing open clamshell and other thin film crap: The iSlice

The ergonomically shaped iSlice Cutter is a paper and packaging cutter that incorporates a recessed high-tech zirconium-oxide ceramic blade that resists wear and never dulls or rusts. It's great for cutting: recipes, newspaper clippings, shrunk-wrapped CDs ... and those impossible-to-open blister packs (ironically used to package the iSlice itself).

Funnily enough they do mention this fact in their blurb! I use one, and no, I don't work for the company.

Re:Better opener

[CopaceticOpus]

This is much less efficient, but lots more fun.

Re:Better opener

[gEvil (beta)]

I find it amusingly ironic that the "manly" device (as opposed to the one "designed by and for women") is the one that has swooshy flares and comes in a variety of colors. Now, I realize that it all adds to the functionality, but on first glance it just seemed a bit silly.

Re:Better opener

[El_Oscuro]

Nice. I have always wanted one of those, but it is slightly above my price range. :) Mine is a lot cheaper and still a lot of fun. And yes, I have actually used it to open packages!

Re:Better opener

[Anonymous Coward]

The "overpriced" one is designed such that you can open the jaws so far that there's a gap at the "heel" of the blade, allowing you to start your cut without plowing through the [often much sturdier] edge area. It also includes a small razor in the end of one handle, and a mini-screwdriver in the other.

I have 5 pairs of tinsnips, but I still keep that zibra thing around for opening plastic packaging. it rocks.

Scissors

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of idiot buys a product specifically for opening plastic packaging? It's called scissors, and you probably already have a pair.

Re:Scissors

[argent]

No, it's called a "box cutter". Scissors are a pain to open much of this kind of packaging with because of the bevelled edges. Even if they're Fiskars.

Re:Scissors

[EvanED]

Scissors don't work for a lot of this stuff. I've actually broken a pair trying to open something in this hard plastic crap.

Re:Scissors

[istartedi]

Yep, back when I was in DC, the local consumer reporter did a test. They put these fancy tools against scissors. The fancy tools offered no advantage. In fact, since they were designed to do "something different", it usually took people longer to open the package. Scissors are hard to start on the edge of the package, but once you break through it's easy.

At any rate, I agree--the special tools are just preying on people's frustration. What's really funny is when the special tool comes packaged in frustrating plastic...

Re:Scissors

[Anonymous Coward]

Scissors cut jagged and sharp edges. It's like using a hand can opener vs and electric one.

Simple box cutters are very useful in opening all kinds of packages. Scissors are good for arts and crafts.

Aviation shears

[oneiros27]

Also called aviation snips -- they'll go through the packaging, and they'll clip the wires like they're butter.

Don't go for the heavy duty models -- they have smaller jaws, and aren't really needed for going through plastic.

Even cheaper

[EmbeddedJanitor]

What about a pull strip cutter? Anyone remember cigarette packs? They came in cellophane wrappers with a red strip that you pulled to cleanly cut the packaging open. Surely the same idea could be scaled up to open any sort of packaging?

Good for them and all, but let's be honest

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not doing this to be consumer friendly, or environment friendly. This is about saving costs in shipping. Right now, Amazon isn't really much cheaper than Floor-Mart/Searz/Target, but they avoid sales tax (worth 5-10%), and they offer "free" shipping for >$25.

If they dropped the free shipping (especially since if you pay them $75/year as a convenience fee), then a big reason for people shopping at Amazon would be gone. So like any responsible company, they're reducing shipping costs by lowering the size and weight of what they ship. And then marketing it as "Saving the Consumer and Being Oh-So-Green".

I don't have an issue with them doing it, but let's not put them in the hall of fame for trying to cut costs.

Oh, unless they're planning on cutting the price of shipping and merchandise? Nah, I didn't think so.

Re:Good for them and all, but let's be honest

[evanbd]

Um, what? Of course they'll use it to cut prices. Unlike some companies, Amazon is in a competitive field. And when people are shopping online, it's trivial to comparison shop, so people do. There are plenty of other online retailers selling the same stuff as them, and one of the reasons Amazon does well is that they're cheaper. Sure, they want more profit -- but once they find a way to cut costs, the optimal way to make more profit is to pass some of that cost savings along as a price reduction, in order to attract more customers. Remember, there are two ways to increase profits -- increase margins, and increase units sold. In highly competitive markets, the optimal use for any cost cutting measure will be a mix of the two.

Sure, you won't see the whole reduction passed along (at least not until everyone is doing it and they can't afford not to), but who cares? The stuff gets cheaper, and friendlier for the environment, and less frustrating to open. I rather like this idea.

Re:Good for them and all, but let's be honest

[denzacar]

Oh, unless they're planning on cutting the price of shipping and merchandise? Nah, I didn't think so.

If these "first 19" products are any indication - no. Same price for "naked" as for the originally packaged products.

 

 
BTW... does anyone else think that there is a great potential for disappointment for kids when they get their SuperCoolTM toy packed in a plain brown cardboard box?
Boxes those come in are often more than just packaging.
And they sure are shiny and eye-catching.

Something tells me this new packaging method will not be such a great success when toys and gifts are concerned.

Re:Good for them and all, but let's be honest

[Valdrax]

They're not doing this to be consumer friendly, or environment friendly. This is about saving costs in shipping.

Oh to be sure, but if you can kill birds with one stone, make the world a little bit of a better place, and pick up some free PR glow, then why not go for the gold?

Re:Good for them and all, but let's be honest

[story645]

does anyone else think that there is a great potential for disappointment for kids when they get their SuperCoolTM toy packed in a plain brown cardboard box?

They'll be too distracted by their shiny new toy to notice. Kids have very short attention spans and like to get to the good stuff fast. Seriously, they rip up the packaging in a minute to get to the toy anyway, and only seriously notice the packaging when they're at the store (and even then, mostly in so far as the packaging displays the product contained therein.) When I presented kids I've worked with new toys, they've never asked me about the packaging.

Re:Good for them and all, but let's be honest

[grahamd0]

I don't have an issue with them doing it, but let's not put them in the hall of fame for trying to cut costs.

And why not?

Technology has allowed Amazon to do away with inconvenient, expensive, wasteful packaging. This allows them and their suppliers to cut costs, while also helping consumers and the environment.

You're sitting here, on slashdot of all places, poo-pooing the idea that the internet can help us to prevent waste, inconvenience and inefficiency, helping to sustain economic freedom and prosperity while passing multiple benefits on to consumers.

You can turn your geek card in at the door on your way out.

Re:Good for them and all, but let's be honest

[Asic Eng]

BTW... does anyone else think that there is a great potential for disappointment for kids when they get their SuperCoolTM toy packed in a plain brown cardboard box?

I think that's a valid point. However there is also the frustration of a kid trying to get to their toy and being unable to open the package without the help of an adult - made worse by having to wait till *someone else* is opening the packaging. Plus the danger that tackling the packaging could damange the toy. (Seems reasonably likely in that detailed pirate ship, which Amazon uses as an example product). Cutting your fingers on clamshell plastic remains is not so fun either.

blister pack tip...

[zogger]

...aviation shears. Works a charm.

Re:blister pack tip...

[Alioth]

I find an angle grinder is far quicker.

Re:I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye

[peragrin]

you need to add a pair of diagonal cutters, to your knife and scissors for christmas morning. Stuff them next to your drink. something with enough reach to pick away at that sort of packaging. I will never spend more than ten minutes opening a box. I may spend months assembling the item inside the box but the box itself shouldn't take more than a minute.

Smart Move

[Krater76]

I recently purchased a new XBox controller. The packaging was so ridiculous that I ended up slicing my finger and started bleeding - not from my mishandling of the scissors or razor blade but from the plastic packaging itself.

I mean seriously, I get the appeal of the plastic sealed packaging for retailers. It's light, and see through, usually hangs in a display properly, and very, very shoplifter resistant. But what about a nice cuboid cardboard box with a plastic see-through window and some high-quality tape for sealing it up? I can get into it at home, and a shoplifter has trouble at the store. If there are any problems with it I can return it to the store placed back in the packaging and not just the product and the pieces of packaging that are leftover from the demolition I had to perform. I think many Apple products are this way, as was a Belkin n52te (PC game controller) that i recently purchased.

Oblig. Penny Arcade Link

[ASimPerson]

The Space Devil will not be pleased.

He's on my list

[Fulminata]

I'm a pretty laid back guy, but if I ever meet the guy who invented the clamshell package I'm going to punch him in the face.

My congratulations to Amazon for this effort, and I hope they can get more of their suppliers on board. I've made purchasing decisions based on the packaging before, and this will make me check Amazon more often when I make purchases in the future.

Re:He's on my list

[Winckle]

I think the FBI have him on a protection program, even his family don't know where he is now.

Re:He's on my list

[russotto]

I think the FBI have him on a protection program, even his family don't know where he is now.

He's in Guantanemo Bay. The FBI has to open packages too, you see. And when he's down there, he can teach the guards new <strike>torture</strike> tough interrogation techniques in exchange for privileges.

Re:He's on my list

[corsec67]

Hmm, torture:
The food is packaged in throughly sealed blister packs, and they aren't given a knife, tin snips, band saws, thermal lances, etc. to open them.

Re:He's on my list

[mabhatter654]

Wonder what the "bubble boy" did when he grew up? Perhaps the FBI has him surrounded in a protective bubble!!

Re:I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye

[Anpheus]

The scissors come in a blister pack too.

Umm...no...

[denzacar]

You ever ordered a box set or one of those DVDs packed in cardboard boxes?
Pack that in envelope only and you can look forward to scratches, dents and tears on the boxes.

Special edition (read - more expensive) tin boxes are even more sensitive.
Bumping those around even in a cardboard box can lead to dents on the boxes.

DVDs are bought for collections or as gifts. Or for resale. For watching there are cinemas, TV, downloads and torrents.
In all cases - even the slightest damage or sticker mark on the box is a BIG no-no.

Extra packaging and shrink-wrap for my books and DVDs?
YES! Please.

Especially: Fix those two pieces of stupid tape

[Ungrounded Lightning]

... that ruin the clear plastic cover over the artwork when you try to remove them.

A U.S. Thing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Until I moved to the U.S., I'd never had to deal with sealed clamshell packaging and the like. Certainly, in the U.K. and France, packaging is a lot more user friendly.

Re:A U.S. Thing?

[xaxa]

Until I moved to the U.S., I'd never had to deal with sealed clamshell packaging and the like. Certainly, in the U.K. and France, packaging is a lot more user friendly.

Oh.

Well, if the stuff in the USA is really that much worse than the stuff in the UK/France, then I take back all my comments in this discussion.

In fact, seaching "clamshell packaging" on Google.co.uk shows the top few UK websites are all advertising "weld-free" packaging, that's tamper-proof but nice to open. I think this is what I see most often here -- it's easy to open, but difficult to reseal, so you can't pretend you haven't used an item. Maybe theft isn't such a big concern after all?

Re:A U.S. Thing?

[vonFinkelstien]

All the Doctor Who stuff I buy from England comes in blister packs. If I remember correctly the action figures use twist ties too. Plus, we have a lot of U.S. toys on the shelves in toy stores here in Sweden.

Frustration? Try tamper free

[syousef]

I'd quite like to know that shiny new 8GB SD card is actually brand new and not returned or refurbished goods.

Just how hard do people find it to use a knife or scissors anyway? Have schools gotten so over cautious that you now need a college education before you're permitted anywhere near safety scissors?

Re:Frustration? Try tamper free

[Valdrax]

I've never injured myself with the tool used to open hard plastic clamshell packaging before.

I have, however, had my fingers or hands cut open numerous times by the cut, torn, or ripped edge of the plastic itself when the packaging finally gave way to my cutting implement. I tell you, Boy Scout training on knife safety when cutting wood or animal skins does Jack to teach you about how to open nightmare packaging.

Happens with scissors, knifes, box cutters, or whatever. It's the plastic that scratches me up. I'll admit to being a klutz, but that style of packaging is just an irritating menace.

Re:Frustration? Try tamper free

[LostCluster]

Clamshell packaging is not proof that the package came from the manufacturer as new. Returns can be sent back to the manufactuer and reclamshelled same as the originals, your only defense is truth-in-labeling laws.

Re:Frustration? Try tamper free

[Neoprofin]

That's always been my question.

I work, very unsafely, with an uncovered razor blade, cutting towards myself and scraping without any thought to possible laceration and I bet I have fewer cuts than some of the people here claim to have. How hard is it to cut something without hurting yourself? Do you need safety knives with dinner?

Re:Frustration? Try tamper free

[Anonymous Coward]

And as a proof, for the "freshness" of your SD-card, you require a centimeter thick tamper-resistant package? Wouldn't a small duct-tape 'seal' that leaves behind some type/symbol and is essentially impossible to realign properly be enough?

Re:Frustration? Try tamper free

[porcupine8]

I'd quite like to know that shiny new 8GB SD card is actually brand new and not returned or refurbished goods.

How does the packaging tell you any of that? Do you think companies can't put used or refurbished items in a clamshell? I've returned items whose clamshells I'd opened - I'm sure the company just pops it into a new package.

The best way to ensure you're getting what you paid for is only to buy from reputable companies.

Quality Packaging

[VanGarrett]

There was a time when a company was certain to provide their product in an impressive package-- after all, only cheap products, likely to fail at the slightest awkward glance could possibly come in cheap packaging. It seems to me that there are only a few industries remaining that take any sort of pride in the container their product is delivered in. Two that come to mind are the cigar industry, and the wine industry (with some limited extension to hard alcohol, of course). I don't know about any of you, but when I first discovered the "blister pack", I was amazingly unimpressed with it-- after all, this is a protective package that cannot be re-used, in any event. Wine and cigars tend to come in ornate, hardwood boxes, often with clever opening mechanisms. Game controllers, heatsinks, flash drives and some toys have this eye-sore, heat-sealed clear plastic armor that is simply unattractive. Granted, a wooden box is unlikely to be appropriate, but can't we at least get a nice, rectangular cardboard box with some iconic artwork on it, like the same sorts of products came in only 15 or 20 years ago?

Re:Quality Packaging

[Uzuri]

Let me say amen to this! ...

Of course, if stuff came in boxes, we might... gasp!... reuse the boxes! And that would drive tupperware's stocks down :P

stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[cayenne8]

I wish they'd take off that stupid tape thing that is on CD's....damned near impossible to get all off easily. Hell, I go to my Mom's to visit...and her CD's still have most of that crap on them.

I've found so far, best way to get it off...is run a sharp knife under it cutting it on edge..leaving enough room to try to peel each half off in one motion.

This stuff sucks when you try taking it off in the car to listen to it...

Re:stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[lostguru]

Don't open the case the normal way open it with the plastic tape strip as a hinge, then it's easier to take off, or don't bother. Took me years to figure out how my dad had the CD he bought me for Christmas on his iPod before I had opened the package.


GP: as someone who works in retail, I HATE the reusable plastic boxes. For 15 registers we have one key to the things, so we have to get the supervisor to open it. One time when the supervisor was out to lunch it took 3 people to figure the damn thing out.

Re:stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[HeavyD14]

How about the DVDs that have it on ALL THREE SIDES reminding you that there is a anti-theft device inside. Oh, thanks, never would have guessed.

Re:stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[deraj123]

GP: as someone who works in retail, I HATE the reusable plastic boxes. For 15 registers we have one key to the things, so we have to get the supervisor to open it. One time when the supervisor was out to lunch it took 3 people to figure the damn thing out.

This has nothing to do with the reusable plastic boxes and everything to do with your management. Buy some more keys and train people to use them.

Re:stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[thegnu]

slightly flex the bottom hinge, and swing it out the front. This opens it up with the sticker as a hinge, and it peels off easily. I learned that from a guy who owns a record store.

I hate that shit, too, though.

Re:stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[Anonymous Coward]

Buying... CDs?

People still do that?

I can't remember the last time I actually paid for a music CD. Between all the stupid DRM attempts, the waste of physical materials (when all I really want is an MP3 in the end), and the exorbitant cost, I haven't had much of an impetus to open my wallet when the urge to listen to music strikes me.

Re:stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I wish they'd take off that stupid tape thing that is on CD's....damned near impossible to get all off easily. Hell, I go to my Mom's to visit...and her CD's still have most of that crap on them.

Pop the CD case off of its hinge, and unfold it as if the plastic seal were a second "hinge" It then can be lifted cleanly off by pulling the two parts of the case apart.

Re:stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[maxume]

Let me guess, a priest, a rabbi, and a blond?

Re:stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[cayenne8]

" Buying... CDs?

People still do that?

I can't remember the last time I actually paid for a music CD. Between all the stupid DRM attempts, the waste of physical materials (when all I really want is an MP3 in the end), and the exorbitant cost, I haven't had much of an impetus to open my wallet when the urge to listen to music strikes me.

Not me...I am the opposite. I have yet to ever have bought a mp3. I happen to have a very nice stereo for home use, and for that, I want the best possible format I can have...short of SACD, I go mostly for regular CD's. I will often rip them to some lossless format like FLAC to store on my media computer I have set up to play through the stereo....and from there I can rip to mp3 or whatever, for lessor listening environments like the car or the gym.

Until they start selling lossless formatted, non DRM stuff online, I'm not interested.

What DRM do you find on a CD? I've never met a CD I couldn't listen to or rip to flac....?

Re:stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[CastrTroy]

Except that unhinging the CD risks breaking the hinge because the platic they are made out of is so brittle.

Re:stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[Qalthos]

unfortunately that does not always work...

I bought one CD a while back that had the stickers on all three sides... took me forever to get it open. A lot (though thankfully not all) of the discs I've seen of late have it on the top and bottom, presumably to defeat this very trick.

After all, once you've gotten the package open, you could do anything to it... you might even (gasp) listen to the music you just bought.

Re:stupid fucking seal on the edge of CD's....

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I did break the first couple, but have done dozens (hundreds?) since without. There's a bit of a knack to it; as long as you're careful during the unhinging, shouldn't have any problems.

Action figures

[hack slash]

This could spell bad news for the action figure collectors if it's possible to easily open the packaging without any damage - how will traders & buyers know the figure genuinely has never been removed from it's packaging?

*nonchalantly whistles whilst trying to hide his extensive ReBoot collection* (where do you think my user ID came from)

Re:Action figures

[Asic Eng]

how will traders & buyers know the figure genuinely has never been removed from it's packaging?

The more I hear about it, the better I like Amazon's idea...

One of my pet complaints

[Falconhell]

Is the way that the 2 types of modern packaging work.

The first, the plastic blister pack that is almost impossible to open.

The second, used for potatoe chips etc, falls apart
and spreads in contents far and wide, despite trying many ways to open it without this happening!

Ah, modern tech, ya gotta love it!

Breakdown of responses..

[Anonymous Coward]

25% - I hacked myself to bits trying to get the memory card out of the packaging.

25% - If you're too stupid to open the pack you don't deserve what's inside.

50% - I have some super-awesome cutting instrument made from the penis of a long extinct animal. What? you don't own one?

Re:Breakdown of responses..

[silent_artichoke]

This would have been helpful if I didn't read through 90% of the posts to get to it. Thanks anyway though.

Good points. Both of them.

[denzacar]

And what about returns and replacements?
Or warranties?
Even if they shrink-wrap the products the "original packaging" rule goes out the window with this new packing/shipping way.

And yeah... aren't we geeks and nerds supposed to be good with tools?
Heck... forget geeks and nerds. How about just plain guys? .
Or even primates. Those opposable thumbs and all that...

Or are we turning so soft that the slightest problem we face brings us to tears and cry mommy?
What is next? Service that offers opening of cans and jars?

right handed, best twitter sock

[Anonymous Coward]

http://slashdot.org/~SockDisclosure/journal/214377

That is, if the lame .sig wasn't enough of a giveaway.

Bliss!

[bursch-X]

Frustration-Free Packagingâ from Microsoft?

Empty boxes?

Instant Bliss!

Re:Vista Box, Best Pack-Cage Evar

[aliquis]

The guy don't seem to know how to burn a CD-image or understand that he has to shrink his current NTFS-partition before he's able to create a new one though.

Or maybe he do but just failed.

Sawsall?

[maz2331]

What about the numbnuts out there that use a Sawsall to open the damn things? I must admit to being tempted, but decided prudence mandated scissors instead.

MOD PARENT ^UP^

[mr_stinky_britches]

As usual, where are the mod points when one actually needs them? Mod parent up! Raised some interesting points about the possibility of the McDonalds coffee having been superheated, and then the real insightful little gem regarding the tortability of frustration! I love it!

ISBN

[epine]

This from a major book vendor who can't manage to position the ISBN number within the first screen of a book's product page and which feeds up a biased selection of user reviews without a great deal of extra clicking.

Which of my frustrations were addressed when Gillette added a battery to a razor which already has more blades than I can bother to count? Strangely, I can't recall.

Also, one must admire the way Gillette integrated a consumable which changes the blade angle to something less optimal even if the blades fail to promptly become dull.

Of course, if the packaging weren't such a bitch, I'd be happy as a pig in mud to pitch my razor head into the landfill every second shave.

Re:ISBN

[maxume]

Look for problems much?

Try these:

http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?id=prod395859&CATID=306811&skuid=sku395860&V=G&ec=frgl_618217&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=sku395860

(The package is cardboard on the back, to get the razors out, tear along the perforations. Note that these razors do no provide that burst of pride that comes from using the newest, most expensive razor.)

My Leatherman Wave does the trick

[Nimey]

granted, it's rather more expensive than $10, but I use it for so many things that it's still worth it.

Re:My Leatherman Wave does the trick

[Fez]

I also have a Leatherman Wave but I would consider that overkill and dangerous compared to the OpenX. It's rather difficult to accidentally hurt yourself with the OpenX, but I've come close to hurting myself trying to open packaging with my Leatherman.

It does get the job done, though. The OpenX isn't exactly something I'd want to carry around all the time. I have one at home, and one at work, but my Leatherman is always on my belt (right next to the onion).

Re:My Leatherman Wave does the trick

[Nimey]

FWIW I use the serrated edge to open packaging and just slice a big enough hole, then finish by stretching the plastic with my hands until the goodie comes out.

I almost never get scratched by the plastic, and never by the knife.

Re:I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye

[Anonymous Coward]

We bought our son a Little People Noah's Ark. With about a gazillion pairs of animals. Each animal was attached to a piece of card with no fewer than three twist-ties.

Cheaper shipping

[AndrewNeo]

I like this idea. A while ago, I was looking at ordering SD cards for work on Newegg. Buying one was about $1 shipping via USPS. Buying 8? $5, by USPS. What came in the box? Eight full size retail SD card packages, a lot of bubble wrap, and the box itself was about four times bigger than all the card boxes. If it were just the little plastic cases the cards came in (which is all you ever need anyway), they could have still stuffed them all in an envelope for a buck.

Re:Cheaper shipping

[Killjoy_NL]

I usually am happy when the small stuff is packaged in a big box, makes it a lot harder to lose the package :)

HP sending pieces of paper with licenses on them in a big fracking box is stupid though.

Re:Cheaper shipping

[SuiteSisterMary]

Well, once again, makes it harder to lose the package.

Too often would some secretary see a little itty bitty envelope from HP, assume it was marketing fluff, and toss it, little knowing that it contained several hundred thousand dollars worth of product licenses.

Re:Cheaper shipping

[Killjoy_NL]

True true, but I think it's easier to lose a small package instead of an envelope.
And if my secretary did that I would fire her on the spot.

(Mental note: Hire a secretary)

Re:I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, my Leatherman came in a blister pack. I finally burned it open with a lighter.

we dont carry tools when on holidays

[cheekyboy]

and when in a hotel or on holidays, you buy something, and wish to open it at a cafe, or taxi, or hotel room.... you might not have the instruments there to use.

Ipods are expensive, and yet easy to open.

Just hang on the wires for 'last resorts'

[Gazzonyx]

I've tried that, and almost every time you'll find that the shield is braided... solder just rolls off of the mesh (for me at least, I'm a software geek - my solder-fu is weak, at best) and you'll find that it's just not economical when it takes a few hours to patch the wire. The more economical thing is to hang on to the wires and use them as crude jumpers/whatevers when you'd otherwise not have anything to work with. Jump-starting a power supply at 4:30 AM to test something on the bench comes to mind.

Re:I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye

[story645]

toys attached to cardboard boxes with dozens (sometimes over a hundred) wire twist-ties and highly strecthy rubber-band-like straps

So, just about every barbie ever? I don't remember my parents ever doing it for me, but it was kind of fun to slowly unbind my doll from her restraints, trying to do it all evenly. The rubber bands also made good hair ties. Make it a game and your daughter should have fun with it too. The playsets are way worse, utensils and stuff in that sheet of plastic, and you've gotta twist it out without wrecking the pot or plate or whatever that's in the plastic.

The coffee suit was an abuse of the legal system

[ThrowAwaySociety]

From your source (which happens to be a tort lawyer's website):

Before trial, McDonald's gave the opposing lawyer its operations and training manual, which says its coffee must be brewed at 195 to 205 degrees and held at 180 to 190 degrees for optimal taste.

That was the center of their case. The plaintiff brought in "experts" that claimed this was too hot, and introduced some evidence that supposedly showed that competitors sold cooler coffee.

The fact (actual scientific fact, not legal fact) of the matter is, coffee should be brewed at around 200F and served at about 180F to properly dissolve the essences that make coffee taste like coffee. There's an ANSI standard (ANSI CM-1-1986) that says so. Industrial coffee machines (like the ones that McDonalds and practically everyone else uses) are designed to work at that temperature, because of the standard and because that's what makes the best coffee.

An interesting consequence of that temperature is that it does severe damage to human skin. However it is perfectly reasonable to assume that coffee would be at that temperature, and totally unreasonable to sue and claim that that temperature was unusually hot.

The only negligent thing McDonalds did was hire a defense lawyer who failed to discover and introduce basic documented evidence.

TERRIBLE EXECUTION

[VinylRecords]

I received three packages from Amazon.com today and one of them was not properly sealed and it was heavily damaged. The box contained some books .....all of the books fell out of the box because there was only a single layer of thin tape holding the entire cardboard box together......so I got an empty box today from Amazon.com because they are cutting back on packaging materials. I guess this is what you get with "FREE SUPER SHIPPING SAVING" or whatever. Thankfully my package consisting of the collector's guide for Fallout 3 and Dead Space arrived perfectly, but my political science readings are in mail heaven (or hell) right now.

bravo to them

[wikinerd]

There is no invention that I have hated more than clamshell packaging. It's stupid and ugly. So much I hate it that I would certainly consider paying more to buy products not placed in clamshell packaging.

Show us the "Plastic Surgeon Package" package!!

[SpaghettiPattern]

How is the "Plastic Surgeon Package" packed? Will I need a "Plastic Surgeon Package" to unpack it? I mean this sounds a bit like von Münchhausen escaping from a swamp by pulling himself up by his own hair. This is definitively too much to handle before having had large quantities of coffee. Which I'll start having right now.

I'm not paranoid but it's the elections that make me a little itchy...

Re:I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye

[Dzimas]

Umm. You are aware that Amazon currently offers only 19 products in this newfangled packaging?

About time

[coffeechica]

It surprises me that Amazon.com is only making this move now. I work for a company that supplies Amazon Germany, along with a number of retail customers. The retailers get the standard 5-layer cardboard box with product pictures, information etc., while Amazon has their own mail order box - sturdier, different info on the outside, and with a designated spot to stick the address label on. In the household product sector, it's been a standard for years by now.

The secret to opening yoghurt

[abigsmurf]

To open Yoghurt without it spraying, don't open it with your hand pressing down on the lid as you peel it. just hover your hand over it as you peel. That way you won't increase the air pressure inside the pot and it won't spray out when it's opened

A novel idea, I'm sure...

[Sarten-X]

This seems novel enough for Amazon, so has it been patented?

plastic clamshell inventor should be cut

[richlv]

hi. i would like to repeatedly cut the inventor of "hard plastic clamshell casings" with sharp objects. please apply.
thanks, bye.

Cutting cost instead of cutting fingers

[Anonymous Coward]

The real reason is that the cardboard boxes are cheaper. However, the reduction in sliced fingers and palms will be much appreciated too.

And what of the Kindle?

[Hillview]

Does the Kindle come in a plastic blister pack that might as well be titanium like most other electronics of its type? genuinely curious here, I've never owned one. ;)

Re:The coffee suit was an abuse of the legal syste

[Hognoxious]

to properly dissolve the essences that make coffee taste like coffee

But this was at McDonlads, so that's irrelevant.

Frustration free?

[Wowsers]

Microsoft to offer frustration free packaging? I don't think users think the packaging is the frustrating bit, more like it's content.

kids...

[zogger]

..always using that new fangled "lektrictee" stuff. Oh, makes it easier they say, it's more modern. Why, back in the day...after working 25 hours down to the mines, on the way to and from school, after stopping in for the mandatory beatings, we used our pet saber toothed badgers to open up our lunch of mammoth bones, and we liked it that way. Kept ya sharp!

It's about time!

[BLKMGK]

I will NEVER forget being forced to buy a CAT5 cable while on travel once upon a time. Upon returning to my room with it I was faced with one of those damned impossible to open packages. Thanks to TSA I had no knife, no scissors, no normal way to slash open the damned package. I ended up sawing it open on the metal frame of the bed like a madman! Truly disturbing to get so desperate to open one of the damned things.

I really miss cardboard packaging and I hope that Amazon's example starts a trend...

Sounds great

[Drakkenmensch]

What I'm really looking forward to, though, is the day when Best Buy can offer us products that isn't armored in those polyethylene forcefields that I can barely cut through with my biggest, most badass scissors. Those sharp plastic edges, however, have never had any trouble cutting through my soft tender skin...

Re:I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye

[Jason Levine]

Seriously, as a parent, I've seen packaging on kids toys get progressively worse. Not just ultrasonic-sealed plastic clamshells, but toys attached to cardboard boxes with dozens (sometimes over a hundred) wire twist-ties and highly strecthy rubber-band-like straps.

I completely agree. And don't forget that you need to keep an eye on those one hundred twist-ties, rubber-band-straps, and other assorted plastic bits to make sure that they all get thrown out. If you leave one behind, your child *will* find it and then they may wonder what happens if they chew on it. Some of those plastic bits are a huge choking hazard and having them in the box for a small child's toy is just irresponsible.

Science for the sake of science... Re:lawsuits...

[Techguy666]

Even if they did, tin snips still aren't very effective at getting open blister packs safely unless you're wearing heavy work gloves, in my experience. You'll still end up with a sharp edge whipping around, even if you're not ripping it open with your hands (which is undoubtably unsafe).

The fact that we have to have this discussion at all just goes to show the level of insanity that went into blister packs.

Assuming the creators of these packages never had the consumer in mind, what if we reverse the thinking and ignore their product... What's the most effective way to open these blister packs?

I was thinking creating a commercial acid-dropper (burn your skin acid, not burn your brain acid)! Something that looks like a coffeemaker that lets you put a package underneath, it'll drop a few drops of concentrated acid around the perimeter of the package and then after a second or two, drop a neutralizing base on the package. No fuss, no mess, no edges because they've essentially been melted into rounded edges... So what if the product might be turned into slag??

Yes, I'm bored at work.

well

[Larryish]

the best way i have found to open clamshell packaging is to find the widest expanse of flatness and make a 2 or 3 inch cut across is

then grab the flap created by your cut in one hand, and the opposing side in the other hand, and pull it apart

make sure you don't let go

Re:I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye

[porcupine8]

Dear god, I feel you. I collect Barbie dolls, and you would think that they're at risk of untying themselves and climbing right out of the box. It takes a good 10 minutes to get even the most basic doll out of the box, much longer for fancier ones (and this is for someone with years of experience who knows exactly what strings to cut and where to find all the twist ties). Their hair is sewn down to the box liner. WTF? Higher-end doll manufacturers lay each doll in a bed of tissue paper inside a shoebox-style box. While I realize that that sort of setup might not work so well on a shelf in Target, I don't get the overaggressive packaging.

Slashdot: free as in...

[Anonymous Coward]

Until this program spreads to more products, better get one of these (ThinkGeek and Slashdot share a corporate overlord).

Slashdot, free as in... prostitution?

about damn time

[omfglearntoplay]

That's it. it's about time. They should make it like that anywhere theft isn't an issue.

Re:Especially: Fix those two pieces of stupid tape

[Anonymous Coward]

Or how about when the artwork is poking up above the clear plastic and gets torn off with the tape?

Apple called...

[guruevi]

... it wants it's packaging back. Seriously, it has been the reason for picking Apple over other products: just in case you need to ship the product.

Presentation and Security of Items

[davrodg]

Since the items are presented online, there is no need for packaging - except for the obvious fact that the manufacturer has one distribution model per item, typically. Once manufacturers are requested that their goods come in 2 models (which is often true of wholesale/retail items -Sams Club vs Wal-Mart packaging) then the manufacturers will acknowledge the need for different product packaging based on vendor influence. Considering the cost savings associated with eliminating the print and plastic, this should be a win-win for consumers and retailers alike. Adoption of this model is imminent and rational.

Security is the other element of the packaging, and is a rudimentary method in theft(loss) prevention. Since the only way to steal from online retailers is via XSS, SQL injection, cookie tampering, identity theft and other methods of vulnerability exploitation, it seems obvious that the costs savings transferred to the online retailer should be used to thwart online theft, in the form of Web Application Firewalls, Network Security and sound application development practices internally.

Product models are evolving with their distribution models, and the world welcomes a paradigm shift from the current physical markets need to present and secure goods physically to customers to the new market and the need to present and secure goods without pollution, waste and added costs that are passed to the consumer.

I welcome the change, and hope the manufactures realize this can make a difference that generations will benefit from - abolishing waste and pollutants that provide no true benefit to the sales model.

Re:I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye

[badkarmadayaccount]

Than Om that the universe is fractal in nature. [/karmawhoreterrypratchetreference]