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Barack Obama Wins US Presidency
Last night, around 11pm, all the major networks announced that Senator Barack Obama had won the election. Soon after, Senator McCain conceded. There were no crazy partisan court hearings, just a simple election. This is your chance to talk about it and what it means for the future of our nation.
Just watched Obama's victory speech on the BBC, he namechecked Lincoln and derided Wall Street. If this is anything other than empty rhetoric he's not going to last a year. To paraphrase Ian Hislop on last weeks HIGNFY (popular UK satire quiz), "They're expecting a landslide and if that doesn't get him, the CIA will have to find some other way".
Well done, America. You've taken your first step toward re-establishing your international credibility by voting out the Republicans, who have played a large part in engineering the current state of international affairs. We recognize that your country is in a pretty deep hole left by the last administration, but we trust you'll do your best.
I'm sure I'll be modded out, but as an Australian... can I just say, THANK YOU America for making the right decision.
Your country has a huge influence on us and I am so glad you are taking a positive step forward into what I hope will be a new era for us all.
Watching on CNN the sea of people in Chicago cheering for President Elect Obama and his victory speech convinced me that this was one of those unique moments, the kind that people decades from now will remember and ask each other "Do you remember where you were when Obama was elected?" Truly a great moment.
First off, we haven't had a divided government since 06. And JUST because the Dems control the government doesn't mean its in any way a clean slate. Obama is not a normal Dem, he is a moderate in many ways (even though the Repugs tried to claim he was this super liberal which is more what his running mate is) And they are on notice. The Dems didnt get the magic 60, they WANT that filibuster proof margin and before they get it they have to cater to at least the fiscally conservative republicans to get them on their side. We dont have a Carter administration here, we have a whole different setup.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
the first black US president.. The rest of the world is ok with coloured people in office for centuries now.. A dutch Poet / commedian said this morning: Africa congratualtes America with their first black president.. The have had many black presidents.. now all they need is food.. But ot react to what it will mean for the nation.. I say "what nation" My country is not really affected. McCains and Obama's foreign policy will not be very different from each other.. I hope Obama understands that with great power comes great responsibillity.. And as the president of the most infoluencial country in the world he should know that his responsibility does not end at the border OR at the Oil wells...
You can sit on the sidelines, complaining your way to complete misery. Or you can get on board with Obama and his supporters, and do what needs to be done to get this nation back on track.
Seriously, dude, Obama is not a socialist, and Bush put an end to more liberties than Obama would ever have any inclination to end. Your views are seriously out of line with reality. On second thought, maybe it is best if you stay on the sidelines.
I wish I could mod that up, because that's exactly why I voted the way I did this election. I voted D straight down the list for the first time ever. No mix and match, no attempt at balance. Straight Democrat. I feel a little dirty, but it needed to be done, and for the first time since I've been able to vote, I actually have hope that maybe this time it will be different. I was well on my way to becoming disillusioned and apathetic, but this time I care, and I'm hopeful.
I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
Obama's win was widely predicted, although most people underestimated his support (right now, it looks like he will take 364 electoral votes).
The biggest surprise of the night is in Alaska, where against all odds, they elected a convicted criminal to the US senate.
I came here for a good argument
Be careful of your thoughts; they could become words and deeds at any minute.
Did Puerto Rico vote? American Samoa? Marshall islanders? You crazy cats have taxation without representation, have colonies without a vote. I recall that sort of nonsense stirred a revolution once before...
there is nothing wrong with paying taxes, when you can already afford a roof, transportation and food on your table.
If I was an american earning 100k a year, I wouldn't mind paying 50% of my salary in taxes, if that was used to pay for proper healthcare for people doing the less honorable and underpayed jobs around me, like the janitor and the parking attendants...
FWIW, my 2c are that the better candidate won. But this is not a landslide by any means -- despite massive turnout, 47% chose McCain. It's great that Obama acknowledged these people and and said he's going to be their president, too. Quite a change from the divisiveness of the past.
Science-fiction writer John Scalzi had an excellent reality check about an Obama administration I urge all Obama supporters to read. If you're realistic about the man, great. If you're hoping for the moon -- well, this might just save you a lot of disappointment later.
Go somewhere random
When 96% of the black vote goes to one candidate, it's pretty clear we have a long way to go.
No joke. Plus the suspension of basic civil rights, undercutting the posse comitatus act, widespread government surveilance of civilians, launching wars that benefit noone. GOP socialism is the worst kind of socialism anyone could ever think of.
M
With all respect,
Your going to eat those words in a year.
Good bye George, and god bless barrack!
Go go Gadget Nailgun!
Because if the rest of the world likes you, they might stop thinking up ways to blow you up. When you say please don't build any Nuclear missiles they might actually listen. Hell there's a chance that people won't take the whole 'giving people democracy thing' as such a bad joke if you actually came across as well meaning and decent. It's not just the Europeans you need to consider, but if you did, then next time you decide to start a war you might get help from someone other than the Brits.
And if you're going to throw out insults (the OP never mentioned by whom or where that reputation might be held btw.) they could at least be real insults. That said kudos for coming up with a word that isn't in the urban dictionary.
Will change mean that I am not called a racist if I disagree with Obama?
Will change mean that slavery is now something that can finally be put to bed 145 years after it ended?
Will change mean that people can have a rabid hatred of Obama as people had of Bush and still be free?
Will change mean that people with little money will have more money?
With change my conservative values will that make me a target of hate?
Will change mean the majority be sensitive to my beliefs and values?
Will change mean nothing has really changed but people are now happy Europe is not mad at us any more?
Will change mean that our troops will be not be forgotten.
Will change mean that government will not take over our 401k, healthcare, car payments, house payments, freedom?
Will change mean that Obama will campaign for change in 2012?
Change is all well and good but what does change mean. It can mean a lot of things to a lot of people but now the work has to begin words are not enough by any person any where. While people disagree with any election we still have the only country in the world that can transition peaceably from power to power every 4 years if need be. We still have a document that no other country in the world dares to implement because it gives the freedom to the people and not those that run the government.
We are free because we choose so do not let anyone of any party take any of that freedom in the name of change. Support the good and denounce the bad with out fear of retaliation or hate.
We are free because we are American's we are American's because we are free.
Oh, my goodness! Finally someone who took the time to try and understand what I was trying to say.
Thank you.
And, I might add (as a Frenchman) that that Churchill quote you wrote about was also a close second... :-)
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Of course, it won't be portrayed that way. The press will never jump on Obama's every misspoken word, or call out every contradiction in his policy. No, I expect that the press will go right on supporting this guy through thick and thin because they're married to him now.
And that is different to the Bush presidency between 2001 and 2006 exactly how?
I was hoping for a Bush win in 2004 for a simple reason: I wanted him to be president when the whole shit was stinking even up the noses of the big media. I wanted him to be president when it became clear to even the last and hardboiled conservative that President Bush was a failure. I wanted an actual reporting in the daily news how bad a president was in power.
...is the international reaction to Obama's win. I knew that the reputation of America and Americans had been battered over the past few years, but I never suspected that it was as bad as it was. I watched the results last night, said a little "huzzah!" when Obama was declared, listened as McCain gave a warm, dignified, and gentlemanly concession speech, and then went to bed thinking I'd seen it all. I woke up at about 4:45 this morning and I've been flipping between news stations ever since. I got a little emotional last night during the speeches, but I'm absolutely devastated by the number of non-Americans who are dancing in the streets over Obama's win. I never thought I'd see video of a few hundred Chinese people jumping around and chanting "Obama! Obama!" A reporter in France walked up to a woman and simply said "Obama?" Her face lit up and she simply said "C'est formidable!" Kenyans are throwing feasts in his honor. Arab and Persian states are happy. Israel is happy. Pakistan is happy. Australians are losing their damned minds over it. Russia is... well, they're kinda grumpy, but they're not having a good year. And all morning I've been hitting my usual haunts (/., Fark, CNN, BBC, & more) and I keep seeing messages posted by people from a zillion different countries congratulating us and thanking us for "making the right choice." Before you ask, yes I voted for him, no, I don't think he's the messiah, and yes, I'm still pissed at him for breaking his promise over campaign financing. But even with all that, I still can't shake the feeling that something *seriously* important happened last night. I'm almost 40, so I've seen a few elections, but never in my life have I seen or felt the kind of excitement that's in the air right now. It seems like all sorts of barriers have just... vanished. Racial, political, international, interpersonal, it just all seems different now. I know that part of it is just the morning-after buzz of having your candidate win, but there's something special about having a friend email you and tell you how they got hugged twice in Germany while wearing an Obama t-shirt and walking to the bakery on the corner, then reading a post that says "The Netherlands are happy for you!" The world stood up and took notice of us this morning. I hope he doesn't let us down.
Thus endeth my waxing philosophical.
That's fine. How about those who would rather invest their money in innovative companies that build jobs? Oh, too bad, they have to give it to the government as a handout to the unproductive, who will remain unproductive as long as they're sucking on mama's teat.
hmm, well... last I checked, companies in question were designing things in india, producing in china, and selling the shit in the US, all in the name of giving the pension funds their annual 20% profits... I don't see no US jobs in there
so no, it doesn't make any sense to do what you're advocating
I think that the USA is the next Britain and that the next "SUPER POWER" is going to be China.
And Microsoft is going to be the next IBM.
And that Linux is going to be the next Microsoft... done the correct way of course.
And Barack Obama will be the next Kim Campbell. (Yes, you will have to probably google her if you are not Canadian.)
soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
I doubt he's likely to make things worse - and for most people, that's enough on its own. Damning with faint praise, or just a reflection of how bad King George Bush II was? I heard dubya was 6 points lower in the approval ratings than Nixon was - after he was indicted.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Absolutely. I like his "freedom of choice" stance on abortion rights. That's real freedom from government intrusion.
Oh, that's right, he doesn't support that freedom. My bad.
As long as the senate can still filibuster, nothing too crazy will get through. If a party ever got 60 senators though, God help us!
Normally, I might agree with you, but a lot of those Republicans are coming up for election in 2010, and most of them are actually smart enough to read the writing on the wall. Filibustering every issue will not bode well for their chances for re-election, and they know it. I think Obama is going to be able to get a lot more done than some people think.
Well, I wouldn't go as far as "anti-christ", however, he has turned out to be a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE human being.
He only started slinging the mud as thickly as he did at Obama because Obama changed his mind on the town hall meetings? How old is McCain, 3?
He's talking about how we're going to "win the war in Iraq" if he becomes president? Perhaps the old man forgot that "the war" was won within a few days (weeks?) of us heading over there and that, now, we're an occupying force and no longer in war? Hell, he was in at *least* one war -- he should know you can't "win" an occupation.
He wanted to take 300 billion of the 700 billion and buy up a whole bunch of mortgages, re-negotiate them with lower interest rates and at the *current* value of the houses, and OBAMA is the socialist?!
My friends, that's only the beginning of what a terrible man McCain is. Combine him (with his poor health) with Sarah "We're on a mission from god in Iraq" Palin, and we'd have been fucked like we never imagined with Bush in office.
Is Obama perfect? No, he's human like the rest of us, but we're *FAR* better off with him than freakin' McCain/Palin...
bork bork bork!
I agree. And as Boortz likes to say, the point where 50% of the county no longer pays income taxes will be a tipping point. (We are at about 43% right now.) At that point, there is no going back. You'll never get a majority of the people to agree to raise their own taxes. The majority will take more and more from the minority, and there will be nothing they can do but leave the country.
Just watch. In the next 4 to 8 years, you will see the numbers of those who don't pay income taxes rise from 43% to 50%. At the point, this country is Democrat controlled forever. (Unless the communists can convince people that the
The hope is that he won't make things any worse. That, at least, makes me and many other people both inside and outside the US feel a lot safer. Perhaps he'll go the way of Jimmy Carter, but even if he does, at least we can be fairly sure there won't be another pointless war or needless reduction of civil liberties.
You thought you could break the laws of physics without paying the PRICE?
Thank you for your thoughtful, and non-insulting reply. I agree that the blame mostly lies with Bush, but McCain's campaign clearly illustrated to me that the neocons who brought us Bush were still in charge of the Republican party. Until those idiots are no longer running that party, I will not vote for them. That sucks for the good Republicans, but they've got a lot of cleaning up to do. I wish them well.
I have hope that McCain will leave that crowd behind and do some good for what remains of his political career. His concession speech was nothing short of beautiful. His audience's reaction was atrocious, but I don't fault McCain for that.
I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
For me, as a person born in the Southern US in the 1960s, this event is a very, very big deal. I've seen people do things that should never be done, and get away with it, and I never though that a black man could ever be president.
I'm very cynical about politics, but not about people. And for the first time in my life, I am truly proud to be an American.
No one expects miracles, but it feels good to put that chapter in our history at least partially to rest.
Here's my take on all of this, and you can bash it all you like.
I am a 35 year old, college edumacated agnostic white male, with a white collar job in Detroit (ouch), 2 kids, wonderful wife who works outside the home, nice house...the only thing missing is the picket fence. I save for retirement, I live within my means, I feed the economy with my money, I waste gas and drive a big-assed truck, but I also recycle.
I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal: pro-choice, pro-stem cell research, pro-gay "union" (don't care if it is marraige or not), 2nd amendment advocate, screw the mortgage and banking bailout - other stronger companies will suck up their assets and move on - I will hold the politicians responsible for that farking mess forever, let's end the war and use those resources to protect our borders and infrastructure (hell, the terrorists couldn't even take Jersey from the greasers), I'm a flat-tax advocate, fan of alternate fuels like wind/solar/hydro, drill in ANWAR and the Shelf, recycle, build more nuke plants, and yet I like long run on sentences because they're wasteful.
What I'm trying to say is that I'm not unique. I am all parties - I am both charitable and greedy, giving and needy and that these character traits ebb and flow within each of us through our lives. I doubt any of us toe down one line or the other completely, and probably not all the time. This balance is something we all share, like it or not - it makes us similar, regardless of our many differences.
I thought Bush was going to do great things 8 years ago. Now I cannot stand to hear one more word come from his gaping slack-jawed hilbilly maw. He disgusts me with every word and act. It flowed - then it ebbed (more like a tsunami). Yet I still voted for McCain because I believe he had the biggest chance to truly stand against the political machine and make true change. Perhaps I am wrong, but I'm not too big to admit it. And now that it is over I hope I am proven wrong in a big way.
Yesterday we elected our new President, our new Commander-In-Chief, our new "Leader of the Free World". When I checked CNN this morning and saw it was Obama, something stirred inside me. I felt different in some way I can't yet get a finger on - partly ill at first, partly hopeful for tomorrow and our country. Maybe I'm getting pulled into this vast movement of "hope" and "change" that has been swirling in our youth with such fervor of late. Is that a bad thing? Even if it doesn't shake out as much we wish, is hope for lasting change in and of itself a bad thing, considering the past decade we have labored through? Should we instead be dragged into the future kicking and screaming without putting our support behind our elected leadership? If that's the case, we should scrap the whole thing and start over with a new government...who's with me? Yeah, didn't think so. As long as the masses have roofs over their head, food in their belly, this will never happen. It is not until life truly becomes unbearable that "real" change happens in the form of armed revolution. So we must do what we can with what we have to try to ensure the best future for ourselves and our children.
I have made a promise to myself that I will give this man my support and will try to make the U.S. a better place over the next four years. If only a few hundred million others could do the same, perhaps we could reunite together and make the U.S. a better place for ourselves, our children, and our grand-children.
Disclaimer: I'm pretty sure all politicians are criminals in their own rite - most of which deserve to have their heads put on pikes in the town square. They have their own agendas, which should be constantly monitored and reported on by watchdog groups. We should ban all lobbyists from Washington immediately, and anyone taking a sweetheart deal before, during, or after serving as a senator or representative should be prosecuted for treason. You are not representing the people of this country in order to get rich or
Given his lying, two-faced behaviour and U-turns when convenient during his election campaign it seems to me the USA has got it's own version of Tony Blair, just as the UK is getting rid of the original.
I suspect you've already seen his greatest achievement as president: to get elected.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
I have.
I'm hesitant to elaborate, though, for fear of invoking Godwin's Law.
Obama's proposed "Civilian National Security Force" should wear brown shirts just to eliminate any ambiguity about where he got the idea from.
instead of going cold turkey
You might not have to! In some markets, it is actually cheaper to buy advertising in large blocks, rather like buying in bulk at a warehouse store.
Therefore, in some areas, it is not unusual to see campaign ads extend beyond election day because it was actually cheaper for the candidate to buy additional airtime past the election date.
Usually, this stuff gets delegated to early early morning and late late night when no one is watching, but if you are up at those times, you might get lucky and see one or two.
The leader of the Socialist Party in the US was interviewed at some point during the 20th century. He was asked why he had quit running for President. His answer? The two major parties had embraced most of his ideals, so he thought it was no longer necessary. The story may or may not be true; but it certainly rings true. I always remember that when I was learning about these things in my teens, being taught that neither the USSR nor the US is pure in their ideology. There was some minor capitalism allowed in the USSR (private garden plots were allowed, in particular) but the real shocker was being taught that the US actually has a "mixed socialist-capitalist economy". To hear the S-word associated with us just seemed bizarre; but when you broke it down intellectually it was obviously true. We had social security, food stamps, etc. and this was even after the deregulation. Prior to that, the airlines, for example, were regulated down to what kind of food they could serve! I don't think anyone, even Obama, will take us back to that kind of regulation. People wouldn't put up with it, and at that point in history the Right had a point about excessive regulation--it's just that they ran too far with some things.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
I used to think that way, and helped with the Nader campaign in 2000. When Bush won, my thought was "This guy is going to be just like Clinton, or pretty close anyway."
Damn was I wrong. Apparently the Republican administration viewed every international issue as a problem to be solved by bomb-bomb-bombing. Clinton generally avoided international confligrations. I was furious when Clinton compromised down to Don't Ask - Don't Tell, but Bush's push for a homophobic constitution has that beat. Don't get me started on relative deficit levels, the Axis-of-evil and amazing bungling of international relations, and two major crisis which he had been warned about and failed to act upon. Also, having to jam shampoo into 3oz containers to get onto a plane is weak and pointless.
To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure any 3rd party candidate is right for now. A Libertarian "hands off" approach would simply facilitate the economy imploding further. A Green Party candidate would never be able to stomach the smoke stacks required to get us moving again. And things aren't yet bad enough to start setting fire to buildings.
The ______ Agenda
The thing is, I don't think that MLK's dream has been fulfilled. Yes, a black man has been elected as our next president, and that is an incredible thing, and goes some distance towards showing how much things have changed since the 60s. On the other hand, minorities are still disproportionately poor; the criminal system still disproportionately punishes people of color; minorities still do not have a proportionate number of people in power in state and local governments or in the the upper echelons of private industry; and, oddly enough, there are a good number of people who voted for a "nigger" only because they were so tired of Bush that any alternative, even if it is someone they hate, would be better than McCain. Additionally, MLK talked of a time when people would not be judged on the basis of skin color. Throughout the entire race, Obama's skin color has been an issue. Both campaigns tried to downplay it, but it was still an issue. Listen to the comments made by audience members at several of the McCain and Palin rallies, for instance, and the lack of admonishment from either of those politicians. We still have a long way to go. Don't get me wrong, the election of Obama is a fantastic step in terms of civil rights, but don't think for a second that it is the fulfillment of MLK's dream.
Rhapsody in Numbers
BBC?
(This is where someone says they don't like the BBC because they have a British slant.)
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
As a male white Italian with no involvement .... Black people won't be seen "out of place" in any place from now on.
Thank you for that... it is interesting to see how perception can become reality. As a white american man who spent the 80's and 90's with my (now ex) african-american wife, I can tell you that there have not been many places where black people are seen as out of place in the USA in that time. In fact, during our time together we never once had white people make us feel unwelcome, despite living in and travelling throughout the southern US, frequenting redneck bars and backwoods haunts. The only places we were ever made to feel unwelcome were in the minority community, and that was relatively rare. For the most part white America grew up and moved on during the seventies, put those attitudes behind us in the 80's and long before now became mostly color-blind. Hopefully this election will help those who are still clinging to old prejudices and fears let go and grow up.
"irrelevant if you are not a US citizen"
This is utter and utter bullcrap, since the US is a big influence on other countries, mine included, it is damn relevant.
So it IS in our interest to have you on notice, do NOT screw it up.
This is the sig that says NI (again)
Just as a heads up, those of us who have worked and studied world economy. it takes roughly 8-10 years to see the full effect of federal economic decisions in a capitalist environment. Yes, this is Clinton's mess. Yes Bush made it worse. and no Obama is not going to be able to clean it up in the near future, but the MARKET will stabilize and reach equilibrium. It will do so sooner the less we screw with it, which means we may have a bit of trouble yet ahead of us. This is the nature of a free market economy, there are mountains and valleys, some artificially imposed due to poor policy(most recently the Clinton started/bush worsened housing policy) so while Fox news may be crazy right wing, they are not inaccurate in this, 10 years later we are at the end of what Clinton did to the nation, and the middle of what bush has done respectively. The next decade could be troubling.
I was actually watching the election coverage mostly on BBC World News last night. It was kinda refreshing. They were a lot more lighthearted than the American commentators, I found... except for that blowhard John Bolton, but they got rid of him eventually (a bit after he attacked one of the Beeb's own reporters). Two of them basically called it unofficially for Obama way early on ;^)
But yeah, they had Ted Koppel and John Bolton on there, as well as a few other Americans I believe... it can hardly be said that they were giving it a "British slant". The roundtable discussion method of presenting it was quite effective, I found.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
It's a little disheartening how angry the ultra right-wing is about all this. They couldn't be more pissed about what happened last night, and a lot of them showed their true colors last night when they booed at Senator McCain's gracious speech, where he (along with Obama in his) tried to heal the divide in this country. That is the ONLY way we will successfully move forward.
The fact that 8 years of a Republican powerhouse has led us to where we are is apparent to everyone but the hardcore right, and so they take their aggression out on the people who have been clamoring for change. The "wild and unrestrained rhetoric from the left", I can assure you, was the only way to balance the wild and unrestrained spending and bombing from the right. The Republican party, as it stands today, can no longer use the mantra of "fiscal conservatives". Modern Republicans don't even seem to understand their own party's basic foundations anymore.
While I hope that Republicans, Democrats, and Independents alike can come together to try and solve the problems of our great nation, I fear that as the last few cards in the old house fall, the few of the old guard left are going to be more interested in pointing fingers and trying to shift blame, so sure they were right all along.
Is Barack Obama the messiah? No, that's ridiculous. Is he going to solve every problem? No, and I said that months ago, before I even decided to vote for him. I don't see how anyone, even with a Congressional and Senatorial majority (and we've seen how those presidencies go) can fix all these issues. Some of them, including the 1 TRILLION dollar debt, are going to take generations to fix. So sadly, I do believe that there is little hope that in terms of effectiveness, Barack Obama will be seen as anything more than mediocre, at best. In this day and age of people needing instant gratification, when the economic crisis isn't solve in a month or a year or one term, he'll be tarred and feathered, the right will crow triumphantly and say "See! We told you so!", the left will go back to worrying, wringing their hands, and running around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, and once again, ordinary tax-paying citizens (I'm not talking about you, Joe the Plumber, you just keep taking your family handouts and not paying your taxes) will get stuck with the check.
Actually, I live in Britain and have seen the BBC's impartiality take some serious damage over the last few years. Ever since the Hutton report and the subsequent purge of the upper ranks by the Labour government, it's been much less aggressive in its coverage. The Independent is good as a paper generally, but seem to have admitted a quite blatant bias toward the Democrats in the last few days. If you want real truth in your news (or at least as close as you'll get), you have to go those journalistic services that target the financial sector, e.g. paid services such as Stratfor. The public might get fed a line, but business leaders like to get told the truth.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
I thought McCain was eloquent, conciliatory, and most importantly classy in his concession. The man showed a depth of character that I recalled from the 2000 elections, and that unfortunately had not really been displayed through this campaign season. Makes me wonder, if he had displayed the same insight and eloquence prior to last night, could he have won? (Disregarding Palin, party-line, and the other albatross he hung around his neck, of course.)
Confidentiality, Integrity, Availability: without Availability the other two are assured, as is Bankruptcy.
Glass-Steagall (spell it right, people!) is a scapegoat. The situation is far more complex than that. Did weakening that bill have an impact? Absolutely. But it was only part of the problem. The real problem was the excessive greed and risk aversion in the financial market that lead to the creation of new financial instruments to sneakily make risk everyone else's problem. CDSes would have happened regardless of Glass-Steagall, and banks would have found alternative methods of making their financial risks someone else's problem.
There's a fairly good take on this issue here: http://www.bapcha.com/?p=53
The Glass-Steagall act probably should be reinstated, but moreover we should kick the greedy bastards out of Wall Street and replace them with the more conservative financial leaders who were slowly pushed out by the instant-gratification morons.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I seem to remember something about the antichrist being a "false prophet", where people seem to think of Obama as a "messiah".
Now, I don't put much stock in religion, but Obama certainly fits the criteria for an antichrist much moreso than McCain (not to say that McRage isn't a crazy asshole, made bitter by his 2000 loss, who would lead us into Tehran guns ablazing).
In four years, everyone here is going to wish they had voted for Ron Paul. Obama can't fix the economy while maintaining the status quo, which is the corporate backed mandate he and any other mainstream candidate has. It'll just get worse and worse and worse, just like it did under FDR. They'll still call him a "great" president, I'm sure.
If Ron Paul had made it, he would have struck at the root of the issue, which is the stranglehold that the central bank has on this nation, and the problems that arise from their arrogant central planning.
Oh well. Maybe there will be a chance in 2012 for some REAL change.
As another European, I'd agree. McCain in 2000 was someone I could respect, even though I disagreed with most of his policies. McCain in 2008 was not.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Your reference to the "Chinese curse" (there's some debate on the real origins of it) "May you live in interesting times." is actually more "interesting" than you may think.
The phrase in Chinese that is most commonly translated as "interesting" is made of two words (three characters): you3 yi4 si. I won't try to imbed Chinese characters here.
you3 means "to have", as in "I have a car".
yi4 si means "significance" or "meaning", for example, it is used to ask what a word means.
So, a slightly more literal translation would be "May you live in significant times."
To me, that's more frightening than "interesting times".
I think you over-estimate the naivity of the banks and mortgage salesmen in relation to the credit crisis. It was nothing but greedy profiteering and has very little to do with encouragement from any recent adminsistration.
Here are some of the key points to remember:
1) Mortgage salesmen got a commision for each mortgage sold, regardless of whether it was stable or would be paid to completion.
2) Alarm bells should have been ringing down at the local bank branch but they weren't. Why? Because they were selling the loans (and inherent risk) on to larger invesment banks who repacked them.
3) The investment banks repackaged these loans together with the flawed reasoning that only a certain percentage would default based on projected market conditions. Those conditions turned out to be wrong.
4) The producers and packagers of asset backed swaps were further laying off and reselling the risk to hedge funds and banks that didn't necessarily have the capital behind them to pay up in the event of a default. It's illegal for insurance companies to take on obligations that they can't pay for but not for banks to jiggle risk around like this. This is criminal negligence in my view and people should have been in court by now.
5) No one really knows who is exposed to what risk because these leveraged products have been resold and unwound between multiple counterparties. The banks don't know how badly affected their peers are so they've stopped lending to others in case they disappear (like Lehman) or they need the cash themselves for their own write-downs which they don't really know the scale of for the reasons mentioned. This is the real credit crisis, not the mortgages themselves. That was just the catalyst.
Put it this way, you won't find anyone in the finance industry saying that they sold all those dodgy mortgages "because the government made us do it". It was greed, pure and simple.
DISCLAIMER: I worked in credit derivitives many years ago.
This nation wasn't founded on partisanship at all. Everyone knows that out founding fathers didn't initially plan a partisan system, but partisanship is a result of how our government and our psychology works.
I think it would be much better to have a non-partisan system, where there aren't only two opinions to choose from. Wouldn't it make much more sense if one could select from, say, 10 candidates with different ideas on things, rather than choosing either Democrat or Republican?
If we have a more limited number of options, the race becomes much more about choosing "the lesser of two evils" than choosing the best person possible to become the president.
They just don't identify as such, and the public doesn't either. I can see this in my own family. Also look at Tiger Woods, only one-quarter black yet the black community sees him as black.
It seems that many blacks themselves have adopted the Jim Crow "one drop of blood" rule, at least when it's convenient.
Speaking of experience: I'll take a constitutional law professor over a career politician any day when it comes to protecting my rights. Unlike Bush, Obama knows the constitution is more than a "piece of paper" and when he swears to protect and uphold it, I believe his words have credibility and meaning.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
On November 4, 2008, America overcame 221 years of division and another barrier came down. America has elected its first African-American president. Born to a mother from Kansas and a father from Kenya, Barrack Obama overcame numerous obstacles just to be nominated to lead our great nation. I come from a racist family. Many are shaking their heads and wondering how a black man could possibly be trusted with the ultimate office. I am praying for President-Elect Obama. The easy part is done. Now the heavy lifting up and healing of this bruised and battered nation must be accomplished. How could any man fulfill such high expectations that the electorate of this great country have invested upon him? No, I did not vote for him. I have not voted for a main party candidate for President since Ronald Reagan. But I swore an oath when I become an Army Officer to defend the constitution. That oath has no expiration date. It is my solemn duty to support our President. And so I look upon this dawning of a new day... A new era for America, with hope that some good may come from all of the troubles that we now face. May God bless the President and the People of the United States of America and of the world.
Most people who think Fox News is an arm of the GOP, are comfortable getting their news from multiple sources, CNN, BBC, CBS, NBC, etcetera, EXCEPT for Fox News.
while most people who think Fox News is Fair and Balanced(tm) are of the opinion that all other mainstream media are "in the tank" for whomever they are hating that week, and are NOT to be trusted. this magnifies the echo chamber effect, since they are unable or unwilling to consider opposing viewpoints.
What's worse, is they incorrectly assume that everyone else must think like they do, and all other news outlets are as shrill and partisan as Fox is, because they have nothing to compare to.
Perhaps black folks would vote Republican if the Republican party exorcised its racism. Like it or not, they're the party of white dudes scared as hell that they might not be better than some black dude. While that does well for the scared white dude vote, it doesn't do well for the black vote.
You might consider that black people tend to be surprisingly socially conservative. They'd probably lean Republican, if it weren't for the racism.
You might also consider that Latinos were a solidly Republican constituency in 2004, but were solidly Democratic in 2008, despite being generally socially conservative. (Consider the D/R split in California compared to the split over Prop 8.) You can thank Tom Tancredo, Michelle Malkin and their ilk for that.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Obama used racial tension to divide and install anger
[Citation needed]
mobilizing the blacks to vote for him because he was black
[Citation needed]
and promised to give them free money
[Citation needed]
He consistently played the race card while McCain avoided the topic
[Citation needed]
Obama used past generations of racism to his advantage
[Citation needed]
And at his acceptance speech, he began to back-peddle on all of his promise
[Citation needed]
King would be appalled at Obama's actions. Obama has create a division that could tear this country apart.
[Citation needed]
Question: does that hood make it harder for you to type?
Actually, geneticists have shown there is African ancestry (recent as in the last couple of thousands of years) in many European populations. I wouldn't be surprised if much of it spread through Muslim Spain and the Ottoman empire, but we also know that Mediterranean trade missions went as far afield as Britain during the Bronze Age, and where people swap goods, they also have a tendency of leaving genes behind as well. Think about it: Nubia to Egypt; Egypt to Phoenicia; Phoenicia to Celtic lands and so on.
Genes exist to be spread. There are certain Y chromosome markers that are only found in two places: an Indian tribe in the US Midwest, and in Finland. Nobody knows how this happened... well we know how it happened obviously, but the precise history of how this particular Y chromosome spread is unknown.
Likewise, take some historical figure like Alexander the Great. The statistical operation of gene transfer means that after well over a thousand years, either (a) he has no descendants or (b) practically everybody in the world is his descendant.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Entire racial groups have a perspective now?
Obviously not, but in the US there is a strong correlation between color and perspective. Surely you don't deny this?
There's no supportable reason a black person can't see things from a white person's perspective and vice versa.
That is true, but only if there is more than superficial interaction. Much of the US is still self-segregated.
There isn't even enough cultural unity to talk in generalities
This is demonstrably false. Black people of all backgrounds were partying hard last night - almost universally happy. Even before this election, about 90% of the black vote would consistently go to the democrats. There is less cohesion among whites.
If you were white, would it make sense for someone to ask you what white people thought of a particular topic.
I am white, and it quite depends on the topic that you are going to ask me about. As an example whites, in general, do not understand how blacks can sympathize with rioters. Just look at how divided by color everyone was over the OJ trial.
What we should be discussing here is Obama's policies and intentions. Not pages and pages of discussion about his ethnicity.
Why the hell not? It's an important part of who he is, and it's one of the biggest long-term issues that faces the US.
The fact that we are not is the clearest sign of a problem to me, although I think it is one that is being worked out.
Well, considering that a majority-white country just elected a guy with a black father to the highest office makes it very hard to disagree with you :)
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
The last eight years have been the most prosperous of my life. My parents kicked me to the curb when I was 18. I made my way through life by working hard and getting educated. Now I own a house in one of the most expensive cities in the US. I have 10 years of living expenses in the bank. Other than a $180K mortgage, I have no debt. No one handed it to me. I earned it.
Should things get worse for me in the future, I will not blame Obama. I never attributed my success to Bush, I never blamed Clinton when my net worth tanked with the dot com bubble. My house is my house. It was worth $600K two years ago, now maybe $450. So what? I don't have an ARM. It doesn't take too many IQ points to understand that when interest rates wwere at historic lows trying to shave 1 or 2% off your rate at the risk of higher rates in the future was a fool's errand. I have been poor. But I never had a credit card balance or any other debt I couldn't pay. Why? Because I will go without before running up debt.
If you blame the politicians for your lot in life, maybe you should reexamine. Your life is what you make of it. In the end, the leadership of this country has very little to do with it.
Take a break from your hand wringing about how you are being oppressed by the RIAA or patents and examine your life. It's not all about free music, movies and linux. It's about what you do personally to make your life better. Don't blame the government if your life sucks. The blame lies with you.
I don't see anything lacking in Obama. The Bush years were divisive, destructive, and monumentally depressing. McCain was set to traverse that same road, rallying some of the least educated and thoughtful of our fellow citizens as did Bush before him. I for one am glad we avoided that this time.
How about the slack arsed non-working, bitching-moaning-and-whining sluggards to pick themselves up by they bootstraps and *them* contributing to making things better, huh?
I have worked my arse off for over 28 years *and* volunteer to worthwhile causes *and* donate money to such also.
Why should *I* do more? Why not others *doing more* that have not been paying their own freight?
I was going to read your entire post, but got stuck right here:
When guns weren't something that could lead to a massacre of innocent people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_events_named_massacres
Ancient Greece, dude. Ancient Fucking Greece.
This is what people mean when they say 'guns dont kill people, people do'...
You may have a valid point, or you may not, I didn't read it. But I suggest you try and grasp that people have killed one another in droves since they realized they had the power to do so. Wholesale slaughter isn't some magical 20th century invention.
Watch the massive interview that O'Reilly had with Obama. He even asked Obama at the end if he thought he had been even and fair with him, and Obama concurred that he had.
I agree completely. But if you think Obama represents a change for the better you're in for a rude awakening.
Our debt, trade deficits, entitlements are going to bankrupt us. There is no question of whether this will happen, the only question is when. The ridiculous bailouts and printing of money by the Federal Reserve have guaranteed inflation that should easily exceed the highest level in the 80's.
We have the most serious issues in the history of our country at our doorstep, and what do our candidates talk about? Universal health care, tax breaks, and confrontations with Russia and Iran. More reckless spending, more debt and more inflation. The very things that got us into this mess, and will only make it worse.
You do understand that we still are defending Japan and Germany right?
Interesting wording... you're still here, but who exactly are you 'defending' us FROM?
If you pull out your military now, we promise we won't start any more wars, and we're quite sure we'll be fine without you here 'defending' us.
Don't get me wrong, most countries are pretty thankful for some of the things the US has done in the past (e.g. the Berlin airlift that you mentioned), but it's a bit much to expect eternal and undying gratitude for just those few events, especially since the "rebuilding" you did was mostly because you bombed the cities to oblivion first (think of it this way: if yo hadn't bombed it, you wouldn't have had to pay to fix it...)
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
'America, we are better than these last eight years. We are a better country than this.'
This was a triumph. I'm making a note here: huge success. It's hard to overstate my satisfaction . . .
For a few precious minutes last night, it truly felt as if there had been a sudden outbreak of common sense--that we had finally done something meaningful and right. For a moment, I honestly could not understand what I was feeling. It was pride. Pride in my country. How corny is that? Or more to the point: What does it say about us and our recent history that for many people my age and younger, patriotism and being 'proud to be an american' has fallen so completely out of fashion? Is it not significant that my feeling of pride for our nation was immediately accompanied by the initial disbelief and surprise that I was feeling it at all?
This wave of euphoria that accompanies being witness to history unfortunately breaks upon even a cursory inspection of comments posted by Joe the Alledged Everyman on any given blog or message board. Ubiquitous are the comments crafted of outlandish allegations about our President Elect and our future that are almost as unbelievable as the sad truth that anyone actually believes them. The hatred is palpable in a way that unfortunately guarantees the conclusion of euphoria and predicates a swift return to planet Earth.
I don't like people who think hating the opposition is a criterion for supporting their candidate. My stomach tightened up as McCain was giving his extremely gracious concession speech and the crowd actually started booing at the mention of his opponent's name. It was hard to watch.
I really quite admire John McCain. I have for a very long time. It's no secret that he has often been referred to as the 'democrats favorite republican,' and true to this aphorism, he is my favorite as well.
I agree with McCain on a number of issues. I agree with him about building more nuclear power plants, I agree with him about preserving gun rights, I agree him about the troop surge, about school vouchers, and about ear marks. I deeply admire his service to this country and am thankful for his willingness to reach across the isle to get things done. I think he is a man of great character--he is no more Bush III than Obama is a marxist terrorist. McCain would have never been a puppet for Cheney like our current president. McCain doesn't subscribe to cronyism, McCain puts country before party. McCain is a great man.
So why did I vote for Obama?
Because universal healthcare is of great importance to me, but even more important is my belief that our leader should have a socially progressive agenda. I am in favor of gay rights. I believe they should be able to marry, I believe they should be able to adopt, and I believe that they should have the same protections that we would afford any other minority. I believe in a woman's right to choose. In the next term, it is likely that the president will be called upon to appoint two new supreme court justices and I am loathe to risk putting the court in an even larger conservative strangle hold.
However, I share many ideas with those same conservatives, but socially I am a liberal and it is regrettable that in order to pursue the realization of certain political ideals I share with the right that I would have to also be in league with people who I find almost as repulsive morally as I find their self righteousness in being so.
Obama is an intellectual. He is thoughtful, he is deliberate. I like that. His demeanor was another significant reason that I favored his candidacy. I'm not sure when this country started looking down on people with a high level of education. We are the most powerful and wealthy nation on the planet, the idea that we should eschew the educated man is simply ridiculous. I think our leader should be of the highest intelligence available. My mind still recoils every time I think that we elected a C a
First, socialism is theft. Steal from one class to give to another. Theft, by default, is wrong. So the burden of proof lies with you, not me, to tell me why THIS theft is better than regular theft.
Second, socialism failed. We won that war. Remember? Go cross between East and West Berlin (or at least when I did in 1994) and you'll see what I mean.
Third, tell me again what is wrong with our healthcare system? Is it that 44 million citizens don't have insurance, AND YET ARE TREATED WITH THE WORLD'S FINEST HEALTHCARE ANYWAY?
I keep hearing that this healthcare system is broken, and the only reason I hear is that people don't have insurance. I know people who don't have insurance. For MANY it's not for lack of availability!
Or that meds are cheaper in other countries. Are we going to import their tariffs and cost controls now? That's absurd. We can set our own laws, and they have nothing to do with the cost controls of other misguided non-free market countries.
Sorry, I am not buying that "your healthcare system NEEDS drastic change" (since I USE our healthcare system and you apparently don't, and provided no supportive evidence to your statement. I employ a dozen people and pay for their healthcare. Go ahead and increase the employer's healthcare burden, and watch it go from 12 to ten people. Great strategy.
three states passed constitutional amendments making gays second-class citizens with fewer rights.
Incorrect. Gays have the exact same marriage rights as everyone else. They can still marry someone of the opposite sex. Gays wanted a new right, i.e., marrying someone of the same sex. Now, I have no problem with gay marriage, but this argument that I've heard non-stop for months on TV is asinine.
And before someone tries to respond with a 'But they can't marry the person they want!', just realize that everyone has the exact same restrictions. Since I can't marry a 2nd wife, does that mean that polygamist are the new '2nd class citizen'?
Angry responses in 3... 2... 1...
Does this mean that most Americans simply vote they way they always have, regardless of what's happening around them?
No. It means your country's electoral process is rigged. There is no way in Hell that that was a tied election, in any way shape or form, whatsoever. Bush lost both of the elections which put him in power, and anyone with a brain was able to see it.
It's just that the Republican Party (and it's supporters) are so tenacious and gifted when it comes to electoral fraud, that the 3% who appeared to have changed their vote, are simply another 3% of the Democratic vote that was actually able to get through in order to be legitimately counted. Every possible dirty trick that can be used by the GOP to invalidate potential Democratic votes is used; from telling people the wrong day for the election, (as I read about being tried in a previous thread here) to making sure that absentee/disabled votes get diverted to /dev/null, to creating intimidation and holdups in voting queues. I've been reading about all of it happening.
The Republican Party needs to be destroyed, and another opposition party created which has both oversight and strict ethical rules for the conducting of elections.
...after reading through all three thousand plus posts on this topic, admittedly with a filter of +2, I feel compelled to come in and toss away all my mod points to say "thanks" to the /.'ers here and abroad for having actual, real, intelligent discourse about this. The signal to noise ratio was one of the best I've seen on a thread here in years.
I'd been firmly in the Obama camp since he came out against lobbyists in an incredibly direct zero-tolerance fashion (for Washington, at least). None in my ground crew, none in my cabinet, not a dime from them. So, that made the sale for me personally very early in the primary season. Voting for someone who's been a civil rights lawyer, and is incredibly well-spoken... well, that's just a bonus. How cool would it be to have a quotable president in your lifetime? All those speeches you memorize in school? What if you were there for a speech your kids memorize?
I'm not at all proud of what my government, and by association, my country has turned into in the last decade. And as cheesy as it might sound to some people, I really do think we need constructive, positive dialog to move forward. Race, international relations, financial markets... everything. We've gotten in the habit of painting the world in stark shades of idealogical black and white -- on both sides.
Growing up in the US, we're taught to believe in a very idealized, edited version of American history, and America as a symbol -- it's the history that we really wished could be. Down to the specifics of the Lincoln presidency and on, very complex issues are taught to us in a very binary, black and white fashion that loses nuance completely. But it's part of who we are. And for the most part, it's who we want to be. It might be borderline fiction, but it's a noble aspiration.
Something struck me during one of the debates. Obama said "We need to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable." -- which sounds juvenile on the surface, but is a consummate truth at its core and sums up a major issue with the "you're either with me or against me" macho cowboy politic crap we've had to endure.
We've been stuck in gridlock, incapable of positive change for so long that I think we've forgotten how to affect it.
I must say that if the John McCain who made the incredibly eloquent, heartfelt concession speech last night had been the same man who had been campaigning, I think things would have been a lot closer. Well, and ditched his trainwreck running mate, but I didn't log in to burn the neocons in effigy.
If Obama can achieve even a fraction of what he's set about, it'll be positive change for this country and world in my very honest opinion. It's arrogant as an American to believe that my vote affects the entire world, but looking over the last eight years in particular, it's incredibly naïve to believe it doesn't. We're a conflicted people.
McCain may very well have been capable of leading us out of this incredibly dark, deep hole that we're in, but the Republican party as a whole (down to my state and local levels -- I'm in North Florida) has lost any shred of credibility in regard to the term "conservative" where it applies to fiscal and legislative issues, and has taken the moral "conservative" tack -- ie, let's roll back the clock and stand in the way of social progress to regard to people who aren't just like us. You want polarization? Base your politics about making people scared of folks who aren't just like you, and spend your time telling other adults how to live their lives.
The world isn't like that, the country isn't like that... shit, my block isn't like that. So how did we get in this place?
The core of my personal moral compass is that there's nothing on this planet more offensive than a closed mind.
The more we talk, the more we begin to understand each other. And that's a start, isn't it?
As an independent who mostly votes Democratic, this is the true tragedy for me. The 2008 version of John McCain was someone I just couldn't see myself voting for. It feels like he made the conscious decision to compromise his integrity because he knew that was the only way his party would allow him to become their candidate. And I don't doubt that that concession was hard for him.
But the 2000 version of John McCain was someone I was really looking forward to voting for. He was principled and I agreed with a lot of what he said about what needed to be done to clean up the corruption in Washington. And even though I lean far more left than he does on social issues, I will always prefer an elected leader who follows what he truly believes over one who makes decisions based on polling data and party lines. And I truly believe that McCain was that kind of politician back in 2000.
And I can't help but think that we'd be in a much better situation today if McCain had been president these last 8 years. His response to 9/11 would have been much more measured and thought out. And, if this financial crisis had eventually arrived, we would be in a much better position to deal with it having not spent trillions of dollars fighting a war that didn't need to be fought.
But instead, we got Bush, got screwed and now we needed to elect Obama to send the signal that we need radical change to dig our way out of this mess. And so it's hard for me not to feel sorry for McCain. The man gave more of himself to this country than any other candidate we've had to choose from in years. And he deserved to be president at a time when he could have been what the country needed. But he missed his window and both he and the country are worse off for it.
Hard times are coming for the world, but working hard, with joy and passion, we can build a great world to live in.
Kudos, american people, and thank you.
in re: 1., yes you can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test#Biogeographical_ancestry. Of course, whether race means something apart from where you or your ancestors happened to come from, that is still open (*). But make no mistake, there absolutely is a technical concept of "biogeographical ancestry" which is very analogous to what is called race, and incorporating it into a model can increase the power and accuracy of clinical trials and disease screens. I would call this scientific.
But if you want too go that route, then Obama is definitely not of the same race as most Afro-Americans. As far as I know, the American slave population came mostly from western Africa, whereas Obama's dad is from Kenya. And I probably don't have to tell you that genetic diversity within Africa is much bigger than in the rest of the world put together.
So chances are the only "race"-related DNA sequences that Obama has in common with most other black Americans are the ones that passed through Europe.