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Washington Post Blog Shuts Down 75% of Online Spam

ESCquire writes "Apparently, the Washington Post Blog 'Security Fix' managed to shut down McColo, a US-based hosting provider facilitating more than 75 percent of global spam. " Now how long before the void is filled by another ISP?

335 comments

  1. Not Just Spam by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From the article:

    The badness attributed to McColo was not limited to spam. It included child pornography sites; sites that accepted payment for spam and child porn; rogue anti-virus Web sites; and a huge malicious software operation that apparently stole banking and credit card data from more than a half million people worldwide.

    And they operated for how long before they were shut down ... as a United States based hosting provider?

    If they have evidence of these things, I certainly hope that The Washington Post turns any evidence over to the FBI or at the least the local law enforcement where McColo is operating. And I hope a warrant is obtained through the appropriate channels to collect evidence from Hurricane Electric & Global Crossing ... I'm all for user privacy policy from an ISP but obviously these people are criminals.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Your post advocates a

      ( ) technical ( ) legislative ( ) market-based (x) vigilante

      approach to fighting spam. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which used to vary from state to state before a bad federal law was passed.)

      ( ) Spammers can easily use it to harvest email addresses
      ( ) Mailing lists and other legitimate email uses would be affected
      (x) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money
      ( ) It is defenseless against brute force attacks
      (x) It will stop spam for two weeks and then we'll be stuck with it
      ( ) Users of email will not put up with it
      ( ) Microsoft will not put up with it
      (x) The police will not put up with it
      ( ) Requires too much cooperation from spammers
      ( ) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once
      ( ) Many email users cannot afford to lose business or alienate potential employers
      ( ) Spammers don't care about invalid addresses in their lists
      (x) Anyone could anonymously destroy anyone else's career or business

      Specifically, your plan fails to account for

      ( ) Laws expressly prohibiting it
      ( ) Lack of centrally controlling authority for email
      (x) Open relays in foreign countries
      ( ) Ease of searching tiny alphanumeric address space of all email addresses
      (x) Asshats
      ( ) Jurisdictional problems
      ( ) Unpopularity of weird new taxes
      ( ) Public reluctance to accept weird new forms of money
      ( ) Huge existing software investment in SMTP
      ( ) Susceptibility of protocols other than SMTP to attack
      ( ) Willingness of users to install OS patches received by email
      (x) Armies of worm riddled broadband-connected Windows boxes
      ( ) Eternal arms race involved in all filtering approaches
      ( ) Extreme profitability of spam
      (x) Joe jobs and/or identity theft
      ( ) Technically illiterate politicians
      ( ) Extreme stupidity on the part of people who do business with spammers
      (x) Dishonesty on the part of spammers themselves
      ( ) Bandwidth costs that are unaffected by client filtering
      ( ) Outlook

      and the following philosophical objections may also apply:

      (x) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever
      been shown practical
      ( ) Any scheme based on opt-out is unacceptable
      ( ) SMTP headers should not be the subject of legislation
      ( ) Blacklists suck
      ( ) Whitelists suck
      ( ) We should be able to talk about Viagra without being censored
      ( ) Countermeasures should not involve wire fraud or credit card fraud
      (x) Countermeasures should not involve sabotage of public networks
      (x) Countermeasures must work if phased in gradually
      ( ) Sending email should be free
      ( ) Why should we have to trust you and your servers?
      ( ) Incompatiblity with open source or open source licenses
      (x) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem
      ( ) Temporary/one-time email addresses are cumbersome
      ( ) I don't want the government reading my email
      (x) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough

      Furthermore, this is what I think about you:

      (x) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work.
      ( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
      ( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your
      house down!

    2. Re:Not Just Spam by Smelly+Jeffrey · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The CAN-SPAM Act is directed at the commercial entities that actually create the message, not the service providers who happen to be the medium. There are no penalties defined for the ISP at the source end of the spam. This is a slippery slope, and one the US has done well to avoid so far.

      While many have an opinion otherwise, the fact is United States based internet service providers are protected by common carrier laws.

      While shutting down this ISP may have slowed the spam for today, the two fundamental flaws remain:
      • the United States does not have and will never have jurisdiction over foreign spammers
      • the spammers can relay their email through yet another ISP tomorrow.
    3. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the article:

      If they have evidence of these things, I certainly hope that The Washington Post turns any evidence over to the FBI or at the least the local law enforcement where McColo is operating.

      News orgs, as a rule, do not turn evidence directly to law enforcement. This would be bad for the separation between the fourth estate and police (how comfortable would you feel being interviewed as a source if you suspected a reporter to be another arm of the police?).

      If the FBI can't successfully investigate and prosecute based on the details published by the WaPo, then it's time to clean house there.

    4. Re:Not Just Spam by ojintoad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I certainly hope The Washingto Post doesn't have to do the job of the Federal Authorities in the future.

      I think this quote down on the third page was probably the best, from a Trend Micro researcher (emphasis mine):

      "There is damning evidence that this activity has been going on there for way too long, and plenty of people in the security community have gone out of their way to raise awareness about this network, but nobody seems to care," [Paul] Ferguson said. "It's a statement on the inefficiencies of trying to pursue legal prosecution of these guys that it takes so long for anything to be done about it. Law enforcement is saying they're doing what they can, but that's not enough. And if law enforcement can't address stuff like this in a timely fashion, then the whole concept of law enforcement in the cyber world needs to be readdressed, because it's hardly making a dent at the moment."

    5. Re:Not Just Spam by zaffir · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Anyone wanna guess how much faster would they have been taken down had they been hosting RIAA or MPAA copyrighted works?

      --
      "Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway
    6. Re:Not Just Spam by Goaway · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Did you just fill that in at random, or what?

    7. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't see how providing evidence to the government is "vigilante justice". On the contrary it is government justice which is what government is there to provide.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    8. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 3, Informative

      False. ISPs are Not common carriers. They have never applied for that distinction within the courts, and so they remain private-owned businesses. Therefore they are liable for actions committed.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    9. Re:Not Just Spam by Aranykai · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except that ISP's are NOT common carriers in the USA.

      http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/27/1510219

      Now, please stop promoting nonfactual bullshit.

      --
      If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
    10. Re:Not Just Spam by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      GP didn't say that they are common carriers. Go back and read again, slowly.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    11. Re:Not Just Spam by John+Straffin · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Now, please stop promoting nonfactual bullshit.

      Um... this is /. we're talking about here...

      --
      My contempt for the behavior and beliefs of the two major political parties cannot be adequately expressed in 120 chara
    12. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The "federal authorities" cannot be everywhere at once. If you see a man getting beat by another man, do you just stand by and wait for the police to show-up 30 minutes later to collect the body? Of course not. You and your fellow citizens act to stop the abuse.

      What happened here is no different. This reporter noticed an illegality, collected evidence, and then took action (called the ISP) to see if he could stop it. Later on, he will provide the evidence to the government.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    13. Re:Not Just Spam by kkwst2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Be careful what you wish for.

      I'd like to suggest quite the opposite, that this is the way it should be. Do not trust the government to protect your interests in this regard. Time and time again they've been proven slow, incapable, and even corrupt.

      Meanwhile, it is private groups, reporters, etc. that keep things in check. While this system is far from perfect, it's certainly better than the government as the sole "protector" of our interests.

    14. Re:Not Just Spam by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you see a man getting beat by another man, do you just stand by and wait for the police to show-up 30 minutes later to collect the body?

      Well lets not get ahead of our self here. Depends on why the other man is kicking his ass. If the one getting his ass kicked is known child molester and the one doing the ass kicking clams that he has molested his daughter, I would be more inclined to pop open a cold beer watch the show. In the case of a known spammer I might be even willing to lend a hand.

      Hell, I was at a fight a few weeks ago that I paid 50 bucks to see....

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    15. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 2, Informative

      "internet service providers are protected by common [lectlaw.com] carrier [wikipedia.org] laws"

      That's pretty damn close. If they are protected by "common carrier laws" then they are "common carriers" in effect, if not actual name.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    16. Re:Not Just Spam by squoozer · · Score: 1

      I'm quite frankly shocked and a little disapointed that they didn't manage to work a terrorist angle into that list of "badness". What are journalists coming to these days.

      --
      I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    17. Re:Not Just Spam by cgenman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Common carrier laws apply to ISP's because they are providing a neutral gateway, and is no more aware of the details of what is going on their network than the Highway service knows what I'm keeping in the trunk of my car.

      Spam senders, however, is different. It takes a large amount of network resources, spawns repeated complaints, and triggers most network system warning bells. You can't spam on any real scale and not be noticed. No ISP would accidentally allow spammers to operate on their network for any length of time... there must be complicity.

      ISP's generally don't like to talk about it, but the usual arrangement is that you get to spam X amount in exchange for X extra cash per month, or similar. Unless McColo was extraordinarily incompetent, they must have had a similar arrangement. I think it's fair to say that level of interaction (and kickback) takes them out of common carrier status.

    18. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 0, Redundant

      ...or so Smelly Jeffrey claims. I have not read ANY law that treats ISPs as common carriers.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    19. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Even child molesters have the right to not be beaten to a pulp. For one thing, the *alleged* child molester might be falsely-accused and completely innocent. Such judgments should be made in a neutral environment by due process of law (court system), not by people on the street. Therefore I would act to stop a so-called molester from being beaten - you can take him into custody without turning him into a corpse.

      Discussing this issue reminds me of the guy who was beaten in Chicago(?) and then just left to lay there and suffer, while thousands of people walked past him & ignored his plight. You don't just "let the government help him". You use your individual liberty to take the initiative, call an ambulance, and help stop the bleeding.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    20. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Common carrier laws apply to ISP

      Are you incapable of reading the message *directly* above your own? QUOTE: "Except that ISP's are NOT common carriers in the USA. http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/27/1510219 [slashdot.org]"

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    21. Re:Not Just Spam by thrillseeker · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you see a man getting beat by another man, do you just stand by and wait for the police to show-up 30 minutes later to collect the body?

      When seconds count, the police are just minutes away ...

    22. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Judging by the timestamps, I'd say his post was being written at the time as the post directly above his. At the very least, the post was not there when his page loaded.

    23. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even child molesters have the right to not be beaten to a pulp

      Yes, but so have I. And in said case I will not risk waiving my right.

      For one thing, the *alleged* child molester might be falsely-accused and completely innocent. Such judgments should be made in a neutral environment by due process of law (court system), not by people on the street.

      I'm trying to be pedantic here, but the GP never mentioned the word alleged. You're just twisting his hypothetical situation to suit your argument. Granted, in general the distinction is very important, but irrelevant given the stated premise.

      Discussing this issue reminds me of the guy who was beaten in Chicago(?) and then just left to lay there and suffer, while thousands of people walked past him & ignored his plight. You don't just "let the government help him". You use your individual liberty to take the initiative, call an ambulance, and help stop the bleeding.

      Given the stated premise, I would call an ambulance, maybe even remain by his side until the medics arrive. And then let the government help him.

    24. Re:Not Just Spam by idontgno · · Score: 1

      Common carrier laws apply to ISP's because they are providing a neutral gateway, and is no more aware of the details of what is going on their network than the Highway service knows what I'm keeping in the trunk of my car.

      Common carrier laws apply to ISPs because court cases and FCC rulings say they apply.

      No, wait, that never happened.

      I suppose we can give you the benefit of the doubt and say that, perhaps, common carrier laws should apply to ISPs. But it's contrafactual to claim they do.

      Deep packet inspection technology in conjunction with "targeted advertising", protocol interception (like DNS lookup failure replacement web pages), and service-provider-sanctioned (or -provided) content proves that ISPs don't act as common carriers. By both practice and current precedent, they are information providers, not carriers.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    25. Re:Not Just Spam by ojintoad · · Score: 1

      I'd agree, but I don't think this is a matter of "keeping things in check". This is a matter of information about crimes being publicly available and the authorities responsible for those crimes failing to act to stop them. There may be reasons they didn't stop them, but given the scope of the crimes committed and the length of time security researcher's claim to have been talking about these issues, it would appear those reasons won't stand up under scrutiny.

    26. Re:Not Just Spam by cliffski · · Score: 0

      wtf? because none of us can name a website that host copyrighted movies and music that hasn't been taken down.

      oh yes, sorry we can name dozens, huge famous ones.

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
    27. Re:Not Just Spam by ojintoad · · Score: 1

      I agree with your sentiment, but the point is citizens (security researchers) were already informing the authorities by speaking publicly about this problem. This would be more akin to you seeing a man getting beat by another man, informing a cop around the block, the cop doing nothing, and then you and your fellow citizens stopping the abuse. Why is it your responsibility to do what the cop should be authorized to do?

    28. Re:Not Just Spam by Danse · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I'm trying to be pedantic here, but the GP never mentioned the word alleged. You're just twisting his hypothetical situation to suit your argument.

      So what? He was twisting reality to suit his argument. Nobody has perfect knowledge, especially when it comes to a situation like the one described, of someone being assaulted on the street. It's a ridiculous argument. That's why the best answer is to stop it if possible and have it be sorted out in an objective way through the legal system. It's not perfect, but it's better than assaults in the street.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    29. Re:Not Just Spam by icebrain · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, besides the USSC ruling that the police are not obligated to protect/defend you, or come to your aid, it's one of those "basic human decency" things. I don't know if I'd use the word "responsibility," but a decent person probably wouldn't say "meh, not my problem" and walk away.

      I've never understood the "you can't defend yourself or stop a crime in progress, that's the police's job" mentality. I mean, are we supposed to sit there and be dependent on daddy government for every single thing? Yes, if the police are there and doing something about it, stay out of their way unless they ask for your help. But if they haven't gotten there yet, do something about it!

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    30. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pryor: Dead honky.
      Chase: Sir you have the job, your salary is $40,000 per year. Congratulations, you are now the highest paid janitor in America.

    31. Re:Not Just Spam by lymond01 · · Score: 1

      Well lets not get ahead of our self here. Depends on why the other man is kicking his ass.

      Democrat! (See brief synopsis of joke below...)

      Joke
      A democrat armed with a gun (a rarity to be sure) is getting mugged by a person with a knife. He ponders the difficult life this mugger may have had to be forced to stoop to mugging to survive. Was it a bad childhood? Fell in with the wrong crowd? Perhaps he's just homeless and hungry and really just wants to eat, or for someone to care.

      A republican armed with a gun is getting mugged by a person with a knife.
      BANG!

      A texan armed with a gun is getting mugged by a person with a knife.
      BANG!
      BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
      BANG!

    32. Re:Not Just Spam by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

      Which ones? We're talking about a US-based site here. The sites your are probably thinking of are either:
      1. Outside the USA and/or,
      2. Don't actually host the files, just the bittorrent etc. trackers (Isohunt & Piratebay spring to mind).

    33. Re:Not Just Spam by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 1

      So what? He was twisting reality to suit his argument

      Actually I was twisting reality to suit my hypothetical joke. But you people go on an rant. I got my +5, Funny out of it.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    34. Re:Not Just Spam by bcmm · · Score: 1

      US-based ones?

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    35. Re:Not Just Spam by billcopc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Oh boy... field trip!

      The government is not there to enact justice, it is there to provide services to its citizens. Justice is not a service. Justice is a tool, a device to help ensure social stability, and as long as justice is controlled by someone on the payroll, there will be no true justice. There is only loyalty to the payroll.

      Plus, your sig has been bugging me for a while now:

      The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to the lazy.

      ... nor is its purpose to raid lower- and middle-class people's wallets and give it to the rich, but purpose be damned because that's all it's ever been good at!

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    36. Re:Not Just Spam by Lord+Jester · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is like saying that a witness to ongoing child abuse is unaware because they choose to look the other way.

      They are unaware if they choose to be.

    37. Re:Not Just Spam by DavidTC · · Score: 3, Funny

      (x) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money

      No one will be able to fund the guy or collect money from someone who owns a building? Um, okay.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    38. Re:Not Just Spam by void* · · Score: 1

      I mean, are we supposed to sit there and be dependent on daddy government for every single thing?

      It would appear that at least some people believe the answer to that question is 'Yes'.

      It's good to get a chance to wave at someone who, like me, thinks the answer is 'No', though. So, :wave:. :)

      --


      Code or be coded.
    39. Re:Not Just Spam by ruin20 · · Score: 5, Informative
      Truth of the matter is that many of them are required to uphold common carrier regulations on a state level due to the individual franchise agreements required for them to gain right-of-way to lay their infrastructure. The relevant applicable laws are the Telecommunications Act of 1996, the Communications Decency Act, and the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. The Communications Decency Act established immunity from liability for third party content on grounds of slander or libel. The DMCA established immunity for the copyright violations of third parties on a provider's network.

      This is why

      The CAN-SPAM Act is directed at the commercial entities that actually create the message, not the service providers who happen to be the medium.

      as the actual medium as it's put is already constitutionally protected from being liable. So although ISP's are not common carriers in the US, the law is virtually identical for the considerations discussed within the article.

      --
      Oh honey look... How cute... an angry slashdotter!
    40. Re:Not Just Spam by PPH · · Score: 2, Informative

      They have never applied for that distinction within the courts

      [Yawn] This is getting old. One doesn't 'apply' for common carrier status. One engages in a line of business that the regulators and courts determine to be a common carrier. Often in spite of the complaints of the organization in question.

      See the second paragraph here.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    41. Re:Not Just Spam by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Indeed... the Washington Post scooped the FBI in busting a bastion of CP/ID theft/scamware? Somehow this doesn't reassure me of the FBI's competency...

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    42. Re:Not Just Spam by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      Are we playing horseshoes, or hand grenades?

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    43. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>Justice is not a service.

      The government provides courts. I and my fellow citizen walk into the court to let a judge hear our case & decide who is right and who is wrong. That IS a service.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    44. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >>>>>The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to the lazy.

      >>... nor is its purpose to raid lower- and middle-class people's wallets and give it to the rich...

      No shit Sherlock. The common flaw with any of these actions is this - it's theft. Which is why I was strongly opposed to the 700 billion THEFT of taxpayer dollars to give to rich Wall Street fat slobs. And why I voted-out the politicians who voted "aye" to the bill.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    45. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Congressionally-protected, not constitutionally protected. The constitution never discusses ISPs or common carriers.

      And even if the Communication Decency Act, Section 230 does protect an ISP from liable for its users statements, that still does NOT make an ISP a "common carrier" which the U.S. Supreme Court has affirmed as recently as 2005: http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/27/technology/broadband_ruling/index.htm?cnn=yes

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    46. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 1, Redundant

      [Yawn] right back you. The U.S. Supreme Court has affirmed as recently as 2005 that ISPs are not common carriers:

      See this article here: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/27/1510219

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    47. Re:Not Just Spam by Peeet · · Score: 2, Informative

      False. Black bears are better.

    48. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Hell, I was at a fight a few weeks ago that I paid 50 bucks to see...."

      Ummm.. your mom and dad weren't fighting bro. I hate to be the one to point it out, but... they weren't fighting.

    49. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why I have a shotgun in the closet. For some reason the police appear to be much closer when the 911 operator hears that I have the shotgun.

    50. Re:Not Just Spam by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      You don't just "let the government help him". You use your individual liberty to take the initiative, call an ambulance, and help stop the bleeding.

      I would have agreed with you, but since this country has now elected Obama, you would seem to be wrong.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    51. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but the GP never mentioned the word alleged.

      So, in your world what does the word "claims" mean?

    52. Re:Not Just Spam by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      This is the government we are talking about here...

    53. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Therefore they are liable for actions committed.

      "A implies B" does not mean "not A implies not B".

      Even ignoring DMCA protections, courts might be likely to hold an ISP not liable for actions committed that they could not reasonably be expected to be aware of or responsible for. All common-carrier does is makes this explicit (and as you've noted, doesn't apply here).

    54. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Ouch. Way to slam Obama.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    55. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He paid $50 to watch his mom and dad... EW!

    56. Re:Not Just Spam by IllForgetMyNickSoonA · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can't stand those rich Wall Street fat slobs either (really - I just loath them), but the problem is, that if all the rich suddenly get broke and poor, the middle class (that's me, and - I guess - you) is screwed just as well, because the complete system breaks down.

      Of course, one could say screw the system, let the world burn, but the problem is, once the fire goes out, the same rich fat slobs shall crawl out of their lairs and take over the world again, just as if nothing happened.

      One more thing: I'm not a US citizen, so I might be wrong on who woted "aye" to the questionable bill, but I seem to remember, that it was just about everybody and their dogs (at least in the second round). So, whom did you really vote out?

    57. Re:Not Just Spam by genner · · Score: 1

      ... nor is its purpose to raid lower- and middle-class people's wallets and give it to the rich, but purpose be damned because that's all it's ever been good at!

      Well.....that is a kind of service.

    58. Re:Not Just Spam by atraintocry · · Score: 1

      He said:

      clams that he has molested his daughter

    59. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or that awful combination of "funny" and "overrated". Not that Karma means anything anyway... anyone who's not retarded or a total ass can post at 2.

      Or 0.

    60. Re:Not Just Spam by grassy_knoll · · Score: 1

      :wave:

      And see my sig for more.

    61. Re:Not Just Spam by blueskies · · Score: 1

      I don't even think i understand the insult. Are you saying people didn't take initiative and just let the gov't elect Obama or something? Can you put a car in your analogy please?

    62. Re:Not Just Spam by ojintoad · · Score: 1

      My last sentence was phrased poorly, and I really shouldn't have tried humoring the analogy because it's not really applicable here at all (though my analogy is more applicable). This is not the same as an instantaneous crime.

      I agree. I am not voicing a "you can't defend yourself or stop a crime in progress, that's the police's job" mentality.

      But the point here is that the Federal Authorities, who can't be everywhere at once, should have noticed when a bunch of industry professionals were pointing "look over here". You could argue the industry professionals (in this case the citizens on the sidelines) could have intervened, but if they don't that does not exempt the government from doing its job. I'd like to see the SCOTUS case (feel free to message me), but I doubt it says anything about the cops not being obligated to stop a crime that is in progress, or that government agencies in charge of monitoring cyber crime shouldn't do their jobs.

    63. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck i am enjoying watching the right wing moron dummy spits, it warms me heart after the 8 year disaster that was repulican govt.

      Keep it up trolls, I need the laughs!

    64. Re:Not Just Spam by w0mprat · · Score: 1

      What is the real problem here? Every time I see the standardized form I always see this box checked:

      (x) Asshats

      I detect a pattern, consistent failure to account for asshats!

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    65. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i think it was just spam, and now you've replied he has you email address... oh shit, now I replied and he has mine too!

      *runs*

    66. Re:Not Just Spam by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 2, Informative

      What I'm saying is that since the majority of the country voted for the candidate who wants to make the government everything for everyone the idea of using self-initiative and being self-reliant must be obsolete.

      It's like trading in your Volvo for a Jaguar. Sure the Volvo was sturdy and dependable, but it was also boring, and didn't attract the chicks. The Jaguar is way cooler, and makes you more popular and successful with women, but you have to take it to the shop every week because it constantly breaks down. This country moved one more step from being a Volvo to being a Jaguar.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    67. Re:Not Just Spam by cgenman · · Score: 1

      yes sorry about that. Either way, my post was about how protections wouldn't apply due to the level of downright collusion needed to spam from US isps. Apparently said protections don't apply anyway.

    68. Re:Not Just Spam by cgenman · · Score: 1

      Exactly. In this case, it's like a roommate being paid not to see the child abuse going on. It's illegal, amoral, and really slimey.

    69. Re:Not Just Spam by billcopc · · Score: 1

      How do you figure ?

      Here's how I understand this thing we call "economy". There is a fixed amount of various resources in the world... materials, labour, whatever. Those resources are convertible into money and back, right ? So by extension, there is a fixed amount of wealth in the world.

      If fat slobs get poor, that means someone else gets richer. The problem with the U.S. economy is that the gap between rich and average is so great, it destabilizes the entire system.

      I realize this is what prior generations called "Pinko idealism", but at some point we'll have to man up and admit that capitalism and banking are inherently self-destructive. The more money you hoard, the greater the chances the system will collapse under your weight.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    70. Re:Not Just Spam by olesaltyballs · · Score: 1

      If the monetary system collapses, the rich fat slobs won't be rich anymore. If food is in short supply, the rich fat slobs will have to use means other than money to acquire food. If smart, honest, good hearted people rejected the rich fat slobs' parasitic advances to profit off the top of their labor, this whole mess wouldn't have started in the first place.

    71. Re:Not Just Spam by daver00 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is a zero sum analysis of economics, which is incorrect from the outset. To your mind you are thinking scientifically: "The world is finite thus has finite resources". But the system does not behave in that manner, through observation it is known that this is not a scientific analysis. Output of resources and labour are variable in magnitude, and so the system behaves as such.

      It is entirely possible, and has been clearly demonstrated in the last century that everyone can grow richer together, in principle. It may not be working in all corners of the world, and certainly looks like it is not happening in the USA, but it is entirely possible for everybody to gain something from economic output. Hell if your hypothesis were even half correct your lower classes would look more like poor african villages, but instead you have (likely) a roof over your head, food in your belly, television, a computer (clearly). Then theres the really important things: you have a sanitary environment, gifted to you by your peers through taxation systems, you have sanitary distribution networks for your food and water, and in principle access to the best medical facilities in the world. It looks to me that you are quite rich already, even if you are dirt poor.

      This is not to say there are not problems with the current system, but over the centuries the current economic system you live under has grown you richer, and everyone around you.

    72. Re:Not Just Spam by InsaneGeek · · Score: 1

      I'd say that in general it is working in the US, for the most part pretty much everybody has been getting richer and richer. What people seem to have a problem with is that while most everybody is getting more, not everybody's wealth is growing in perfect lockstep unison. Even when things grow in lockstep percentages people have a problem with it.

      If 2 people's worth both grows at exactly 10% (for nice round numbers)

      I have $1,000
      You have $100,000

      A number of people believe that it's a horrible thing for me to get $100, and you to get $10,000 and we need to *make* people get less (even though its the same percentage increase).

    73. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to the lazy." It is just that if the majority says so.

    74. Re:Not Just Spam by HappyEngineer · · Score: 1

      The Republicans have proven themselves to be huge fans of certain types of socialism. The Republican party no longer cares about or caters to libertarians of any sort (except very occasionally they throw a small bone to 2nd amendment supporters). Given that, your claim seems like nonsense.

      Our choice in this election was between someone who probably has socialist tendencies and a Republican who was almost guaranteed to be a huge socialist.

      I voted for civil liberties. At least that's something that differentiates the two parties. Republicans are against them almost 100% of the time while Democrats are sometimes for them.

    75. Re:Not Just Spam by smithy242 · · Score: 1

      Bears, Beats, Battlestar Galactica.

    76. Re:Not Just Spam by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Sorry to burst your bubble,but that 700 billion was just so much smoke blown up our collective rears. The real number so far is $2 trillion and so far they refuse to even tell us where the money went. Don't you just love the brilliant plan of putting Wall Street insiders in charge of bailing out their buds? What could possibly go wrong?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    77. Re:Not Just Spam by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Key word there is reasonable. Since they are hosting more than 70% criminal enterprises can't they simply get them for facilitation and money laundering? Because if what they are doing ISN'T illegal,what is stopping someone from setting up a "illegal stuff R us" ISP and then taking the money from hosting kiddy pr0n,spam,hell anything you want for a price,and then simply saying "It's news to me" while they count their cash? Surely SOMEONE has pointed out to them long before now that nearly all their customers are criminals.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    78. Re:Not Just Spam by evan_arrrr! · · Score: 1

      There is nothing wrong with Pinko idealism, comrade.

    79. Re:Not Just Spam by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>that if all the rich suddenly get broke and poor, the middle class (that's me, and - I guess - you) is screwed just as well, because the complete system breaks down.
      >>>

      Hardly. We'd have a recession, some people would be laid-off, the rich idiots who led us down this path due to their foolishness would jump out of buildings (yay), but eventually things would recover and the system would have restored balance.

      The economy is self-correcting.

      The government interfering with the economy is only delaying the inevitable.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    80. Re:Not Just Spam by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      the rich fat slobs won't be rich anymore

      Just to be pendantic, but in the USA obesity rates are far higher among the poor compared to the rich.

      So being a fat slob tends to correlate with being poor more so than rich. ;)

      If food is in short supply, the rich fat slobs will have to use means other than money to acquire food.

      I seriously doubt that our monetary system is going to collapse; perhaps high inflation. Still, that'll hurt everybody, those who don't have a penny to their name anyways the least.

      If smart, honest, good hearted people rejected the rich fat slobs' parasitic advances to profit off the top of their labor, this whole mess wouldn't have started in the first place.

      Except that, when you get down to nuts and bolts, the rich fulfill an important role - the custody of the nation's busness infrastructure. They're the ones that own the factory that the workers work in, the equipment in said factory acting as a multiplier on the worker's productivity. In many cases, said 'rich fat slob' worked hard, taking the risk and delaying gratification to set up said factory. Or at least his ancestors did, and if he's incompetent, it normally sorts itself out when he fritters the wealth away to new people hungry to be rich.

      That's not to say that I don't think that the current system needs some reforms.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    81. Re:Not Just Spam by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Hell if your hypothesis were even half correct your lower classes would look more like poor african villages, but instead you have (likely) a roof over your head, food in your belly, television, a computer (clearly). Then theres the really important things: you have a sanitary environment, gifted to you by your peers through taxation systems, you have sanitary distribution networks for your food and water, and in principle access to the best medical facilities in the world. It looks to me that you are quite rich already, even if you are dirt poor.

      Well, to be honest, his model might encompass even that - with the idea that we're keeping africa down with our own prosperity. But when you look at it, Africa is a drain on us, we spend far more on charity to them than they contribute. China would be a little better - but they're quickly hauling themselves up, while helping us out with cheap goods.

      Yes, zero sum economics is a bad model.

      Generally speaking, I'm in favor of any system that encourages as many people as possible to be as productive as possible.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    82. Re:Not Just Spam by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      I live in Canada, an hour or so from the Canada-US border. It's easy for me to pick up American TV stations.

      This entire thread really reminds me of American political advertising during an election campaign.

      Every US political ad I've ever seen says basically:
      "My opponent sucks. Vote for me."

      Nothing about what the candidate doing the advertising is going to do, or what they stand for. Just "my opponent is going to do this and believes this, and will fsck you over royally."

      I think the most frightening thing is that this style of advertising apparently works on Americans. Which really says a lot more about the American people than the American political system.

      Hell..how many people believe Obama is a Muslim? Not because of anything Obama said, but because of what Republican attack ads stated and implied.
      It's completely false, and the entire world knows it. But apparently something like 20% of your voting population thinks it's true, because you follow along like fscking sheep whenever your candidate of choice spews some vitriolic bullshit about the other side.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    83. Re:Not Just Spam by JimFive · · Score: 1

      Here's how I understand this thing we call "economy". There is a fixed amount of various resources in the world... materials, labour, whatever.

      And this is where you're wrong. There is not a fixed amount of labour. (For this purpose labour is defined as any amount of physical or mental effort that can be monetized.) Labour can be increased by efficiency gains or increasing population size or working longer hours. Now, if you want to claim that there is some theoretical maximum value to labour you would also need to show that we have reached it.

      Those resources are convertible into money and back, right ? So by extension, there is a fixed amount of wealth in the world.

      And you assume that the value of something is related to the cost of its production. This is also not (necessarily) true. The price/value (wealth potential) of something is an agreement between the buyer and seller. The cost of something is external to that transaction. For example, if I am walking in the desert and find an ounce of gold that cost me no effort, but it has a value to someone of ~$800 (or thereabouts, I'm not going to look up the current gold price).

      --
      JimFive

      --
      Please stop using the word theory when you mean hypothesis.
    84. Re:Not Just Spam by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Frankly, the government doesn't care.

      If they would devote a fraction of resources into tracking down all spammers that they do into tracking down a single bank robber, there would be no more spam originating in this county, and all the spammers would be jail.

      Yeah, spamming might be a slap-on-the-wrist crime, but in actuality something like 90% of the spammers out there have hijacked hundreds of thousands of Windows computer to send their spam.

      Doing that once is a felony. Forget the actual spam...that should just be used to track whoever paid for the spam, and they should arrested for conspiracy to commit felony computer hijacking, and allowed to plea out if they turn over the spammers.

      Hell, that one case: Hire a spammer, get charged with hundreds of thousands of conspiracy-based felonies, really should reduce the amount of spam out there.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    85. Re:Not Just Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's like trading in your Volvo for a Jaguar. Sure the Volvo was sturdy and dependable, but it was also boring, and didn't attract the chicks. The Jaguar is way cooler, and makes you more popular and successful with women, but you have to take it to the shop every week because it constantly breaks down. This country moved one more step from being a Volvo to being a Jaguar.

      This is the worst analogy I've ever read.

    86. Re:Not Just Spam by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Well, he wanted a car analogy. That was the best I think of.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    87. Re:Not Just Spam by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for the MSM because I mostly avoid it. I get most of my news online from multiple sources and saw all of maybe 5 campaign commercials throughout the whole election season.

      That said, I agree with you. It pains me that the commercials are playing to the lowest common denominator. In fact, the entire campaigns play to the lowest common denominator, which is why it is so relevant to do serious digging into the candidates' backgrounds. In the case of Obama, since his paper trail was very thin, knowing who he "pals around with", who his mentors, friends and associates are was a vitally important clue (and often the only clue) to finding out what the guy really believes. As yet, I think these are wholly unanswered in any detail, which is ironic since the guy takes office in two months.

      Neither, unfortunately, are the candidates going to give much information except for a Christmas list of what they hope the accomplish, which is all but pointless. Hey, I want to achieve world peace and eliminate poverty too! The real question is how are you going to do it, Chester? Can you cite the philosophies which undergird how you will govern? (In that case, I think Obama inadvertently spoke volumes with his "spread the wealth" comments.) These are things that neither candidate did a good job of articulating, because, apparently, this is irrelevant to most people who want nothing more than a checklist of hot-button issues to compare against. For instance, McCain adopted certain conservative planks but never really gave us any reason why he supported these things, especially given his history. Do we really think he would be tough on immigration enforcement when he was totally behind that bogus "reform" bill from 2007? Is this a real conviction or was he just placating the law-and-order conservatives?

      I think, aside from being totally in the can for Obama, the MSM did a horrible job of covering this election, which is one of the many reasons why I largely avoid them. On the other hand, the candidates largely did an equal job of describing themselves. Frankly, I think we elected a candidate based on campaigning that was largely contrary to everything he's done in his life up until now, basing himself on vague optimism, discontent with the current administration and a bunch of smooth rhetoric with little real detail or substance.

      In other words, the superficial, knee-jerk, content-free campaigning works really well. I was really hoping 2008 would be a repeat of 1980 and 1992 where independent candidates had a real influence in the race. We need independents like Ron Paul, Dennis Kuchinch, and the host of Libertarian, Constitution, Green, etc, Party candidates to keep the Big Two real, because left alone they are no more honest and revealing than the most stereotypical sleazy used car salesman. This wasn't an election, it was American Idol - The Presidential Edition. The winner looks and sounds great, is a real crowd-pleaser and totally dominated on presentation, but how we will be as a President is no more clear than it was two years ago when hardly anyone had heard of his name.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    88. Re:Not Just Spam by blueskies · · Score: 1

      Neither, unfortunately, are the candidates going to give much information except for a Christmas list of what they hope the accomplish, which is all but pointless. Hey, I want to achieve world peace and eliminate poverty too! The real question is how are you going to do it, Chester? Can you cite the philosophies which undergird how you will govern?

      It's kinda stated on their websites if you go do the research. Both the what and the how. It doesn't mean they are going to do that, but that goes for any historic actions.

      who wants to make the government everything for everyone the idea of using self-initiative and being self-reliant must be obsolete.

      The fact that you are making such an absurd distortion makes me think you do get your facts from the MSM. How do you propose we pay for the hundreds of billions we have spent in Iraq? Should we lower taxes further? (no taxing and lots of spending is ok with you, but tax and spend is bad?) Maybe people are tired of supporting a party that is weakening the US by fighting one war too many? Remember the Taliban and Al-Qaeda? Or maybe that guy Osama?

      The spread the wealth around comment is too broadly interpreted. It was stated at a time lending institutions were going under and people were worried the crooks at the top were going to use the bailout money for bonuses (it turns out they were right). If anything it is corporate socialism to bail out all of the banks for making bad investments.

      But you're right, the guy who graduated at the bottom of his class and relied on his family name is probably far less self-reliant then the guy that graduated Magna from a top law school.

    89. Re:Not Just Spam by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Should we lower taxes further?

      Whoa. That non-sequitur was so abrupt I almost got whiplash. The fact is Obama has proposed an obscene and absurd amount of more government spending. I find it ironic that he's supposed to fix the bankrupt government when, by every measure, he wants to expand it as rapidly as President Bush.

      But you're right, the guy who graduated at the bottom of his class and relied on his family name is probably far less self-reliant then the guy that graduated Magna from a top law school.

      Spoken like a college student, or someone else who hasn't been in the "real world" for very long. You do realize that after your first job, your grades are largely irrelevant. Of course, Obama's grades are the most recent concrete accomplishment you can point to before his election to the Oval Office, so I guess it does matter. And if you think Obama hasn't been riding on the coattails of many, many benefactors, you are really being naive.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    90. Re:Not Just Spam by blueskies · · Score: 1

      Spoken like a college student, or someone else who hasn't been in the "real world" for very long. You do realize that after your first job, your grades are largely irrelevant.

      Spoken like someone who makes a lot of assumptions. Are you asking me if i know that grades are largely irrelevant in getting a normal job? Yes, I know that. Does that make want to vote for a fuck up more than a magna grad? No.

      Now on the other hand what to you do when the VP choice has no experience and no intelligence?

      And if you think Obama hasn't been riding on the coattails of many, many benefactors, you are really being naive.

      And you are being disingenuous if you can't explain you allegations better.

      Of course, Obama's grades are the most recent concrete accomplishment you can point to before his election to the Oval Office

      Yes, of course. We are all glad you educated yourself about the candidates without using the MSM. Because you figured out that he graduated last year and is going directly to the Presidency.

      And if you want to talk about records we can talk about the Keating-5 or flip flopping on torture....(or the creationist VP choice )

    91. Re:Not Just Spam by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      Haven't you made this exact same post before? It's a good one, to be sure, but perhaps you could expand on it slightly?

      Just a thought.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    92. Re:Not Just Spam by dangitman · · Score: 1

      What I'm saying is that since the majority of the country voted for the candidate who wants to make the government everything for everyone the idea of using self-initiative and being self-reliant must be obsolete.

      That's absolutely retarded. Where do you get the idea that Obama is against self-reliance and initiative? For Dog's sake, even his campaign slogan focused on those qualities!

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    93. Re:Not Just Spam by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Now on the other hand what to you do when the VP choice has no experience and no intelligence?

      Come on, I know Senate experience isn't executive experience, but Biden's at least managed to get re-elected a whole buncha times. However, the "no intelligence" part is dead-on.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    94. Re:Not Just Spam by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      See? This is the same tactic always used by the defenders of the indefensible. You don't address any of my points, but simply start attacking McCain and Palin. It's funny that's what Obama supporters almost always do. And it's obvious why.

      Like I said, your non-sequiturs nearly give me whiplash.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    95. Re:Not Just Spam by blueskies · · Score: 1

      Honestly? A creationist?

    96. Re:Not Just Spam by blueskies · · Score: 1

      I did address your points. Just because you skipped over reading it doesn't mean i didn't.

    97. Re:Not Just Spam by ReedYoung · · Score: 1

      My basic objection is based on my understanding of the stock market as the exchange of partial ownership of companies. If this Paulson fund is going to the biggest losers on Wall Street then it isn't an economic plan, it's corporate welfare based on alimony standards as described by Chris Rock: what they've become accustomed to, with no requirement to earn anything. Also, a mortgage lender who approved an overly generous loan and a Wall Street trader who invested in securities filled with such loans have both failed, professionally. I'm not satisfied that struggling national banks are, as Paulson assumes, competent distributors of wealth according to merit, especially considering that local and regional banks are doing just fine, thank you. The borrowers ["liar loans" are the exception that illustrate the problem, not the rule] are expected by free market theory to do what they did, to seek the largest and most luxurious house the market offers at the price they can afford. It's the job of mortgage lenders to correctly evaluate borrowers' credit-worthiness based on accurate information, so encouraging borrowers to input false, inflated incomes of course is also professional failure on the lenders' part, not the borrowers'. Borrowers did their "jobs" in a market that Congress inflated, against the advice of their top finance professional, whom they called "Maestro" for his expertise. According to all the rhetoric of the decision-makers over the past eight years, money is the reward for achievement. Now, the same people are taking money as their rightful reward, for failure. Which brings me to the punch line of the same Chris Rock routine, "I've become accustomed to some things, myself ..."

      --
      "I can't imagine how things could get any worse!" (some guy) "That could just be failure of imaginatioÂn on your p
  2. Slashdot can shut down spammers, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just give us an IP address linked in the summary. That's all we ned.

    1. Re:Slashdot can shut down spammers, too by Goaway · · Score: 2, Informative

      The days when Slashdot could shut down a site with proper hosting are long since past. Imaging it could shut down a whole ISP is preposterous.

    2. Re:Slashdot can shut down spammers, too by biet · · Score: 0

      127.0.0.1

    3. Re:Slashdot can shut down spammers, too by Khemisty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Just give us an IP address linked in the summary. That's all we ned."

      It's funny, laugh.

    4. Re:Slashdot can shut down spammers, too by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      TFA states that they host child porn. You want your IP address linked to THAT?

      It's tinfoil hat time, but i'm willing to bet that simply browsing to a domain linked with child porn, even if it's only a sub-domain, is enough to get some collar-feeling, starting from below your belt.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    5. Re:Slashdot can shut down spammers, too by gooman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Killjoy.
      We can dream can't we?

      --
      "Kittens give Morbo gas!"
    6. Re:Slashdot can shut down spammers, too by jimicus · · Score: 1

      The days when Slashdot could shut down a site with proper hosting are long since past. Imaging it could shut down a properly managed ISP is preposterous.

      Fixed that for you.

    7. Re:Slashdot can shut down spammers, too by Neoprofin · · Score: 1

      Might provide a good last chance defense for those actually browsing for child porn.

      "No your honor, I was part of a concerted effort by the internet at large to shut down these monsters. The only pleasure I took from all these downloads was watching their network burn!"

    8. Re:Slashdot can shut down spammers, too by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      Accidentally? No. But if the summary asked us to deliberately DDOS the site, I think we could still do it.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
  3. good job! by larry+bagina · · Score: 5, Funny

    First they shut down McCain, now McColo. Next up: McDonalds?

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    1. Re:good job! by TheLink · · Score: 4, Interesting
      --
    2. Re:good job! by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, shutting down McDonalds will reduce artery clogging spam by 75% too. ;)

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    3. Re:good job! by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Hmmmm..... I have Hunger for Quarter Pounder with pomme frites!

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    4. Re:good job! by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      MCDonalds sells Spam now? Now that would be a HAMburger!

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    5. Re:good job! by thesolo · · Score: 1

      Why in the hell would they choose a name that has no significance in that market? Japan has been metricated for a long time, and the burgers there are not measured out by the ounce, but by the gram. (Burgers are usually 100 grams there, if I recall correctly.)

    6. Re:good job! by LMacG · · Score: 1

      They do in Hawaii - spam musubi is right there next to the Egg McMuffin on the breakfast menu.

      --
      Slightly disreputable, albeit gregarious
    7. Re:good job! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see they're going by alphabet. Has anyone seen McBeth?

    8. Re:good job! by tenton · · Score: 1

      A Royale with Cheese anyone? :P

    9. Re:good job! by Lost+Race · · Score: 1

      The Japanese love Americana.

    10. Re:good job! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey I've eaten at the one in Omote Sando, went there on opening day. My wife received some free coupons, so we decided to check it out.

      Upon opening my burger box, it looked and tasted just like a MikiD's quarter pounder.

  4. Oblig. by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 4, Funny
    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    1. Re:Oblig. by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 5, Funny

      More like:

      Your post advocates a
      (x) technical (x) legislative (x) market-based (x) vigilante
      approach to fighting spam. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won'... Holy crap how did you do that? 75% of all spam!? So much for it being botnets causing it! Congratulations!

    2. Re:Oblig. by Artuir · · Score: 2

      You know, there ought to be a moderation selection for "awesome" so I could apply it to this. Sometimes "funny" just doesn't work.

    3. Re:Oblig. by shentino · · Score: 1

      botnets may still have been used.

      The ISP could have, however, been hosting the botnet operator.

  5. As long as there is money in it... by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the spam will flow. It's the old "balloon dog" effect. Squeeze it in one place and it balloons in another. The ONLY way to attack this problem is to go after the advertisers who are willing to use spam as a medium to sell product.

    1. Re:As long as there is money in it... by postbigbang · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or change the protocol set to something that can still work with anonymous yet non-commercial/legal mail. I can't think of a single person that would mind changing their email address or taking a few steps to eliminate the spam they get.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    2. Re:As long as there is money in it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use gmail precisely to avoid even having to worry about spam filtering. When I had my own vanity domain, I would have agreed with you. Now, I just don't care anymore as the problem has ceased to impact me (directly).

    3. Re:As long as there is money in it... by HungryHobo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So how do you set up a system where people can still be anon(even if the government issues some warrents) but held accountable for spam?Got any protocols which allow that?

    4. Re:As long as there is money in it... by postbigbang · · Score: 2, Funny

      No offense, but that's when gmail is working.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    5. Re:As long as there is money in it... by postbigbang · · Score: 2, Interesting

      proxy anonymity. someone will think it up and make it work.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    6. Re:As long as there is money in it... by I.M.O.G. · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Usually when people make absolute/exclusionary statements, like "the ONLY way", they end up being not entirely correct.

      While going after the advertisers could solve the problem, that assumes you could track them down AND have any control over their actions. Jurisdictional hurdles and similar problems are obvious with this approach.

      Fortunately tho, that's not the ONLY way to address the problem. It'd be good if ISPs had incentives to address the problem - large scale bittorent protocol usage is something that wreaks havoc on the ISPs network and many ISPs are actively trying to come up with solutions to ease their pain. If there were an incentive for ISPs to monitor for abuse over SMTP, then perhaps another solution to the SPAM problem would be possible.

      Theres lots of "answers". Any answer you provide to this problem falls prey to the same general set of problems tho. Theres a standard form slashdotters post in response to suggestions like this, and by checking off the correct options it can shoot down any possible solution you can think of.

    7. Re:As long as there is money in it... by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I use GMail with email addresses on my own domain (and it's free!)
      The only downside is having only 7GB of mail storage space.
      GMail's spam filtering is indeed second to none, I'm piping one of my old yahoo accounts through to my new address, and yahoo lets a few spams through per day, and then gmail blocks all of those.

    8. Re:As long as there is money in it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > GMail's spam filtering is indeed second to none,
      > I'm piping one of my old yahoo accounts through
      >to my new address, and yahoo lets a few spams
      > through per day, and then gmail blocks all of
      > those.

      Blocked? I guess for some definition of blocked. My gmail Junk folder gets 50+ spam emails per day, and I have to look at them because I get an occasional false positive.

    9. Re:As long as there is money in it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This might come as a revelation to you, but SPAM on a large scale is used mostly by illegal business (unregulated drug sales, etc...) that can not use "normal" advertisement channels.

      Saying "to go after the advertisers" in this case means the same as saying "go after organized crime". It is done, but this crime went global a long time ago, while governments are still trying to figure out what exactly is this inter-tuby-thingy.

    10. Re:As long as there is money in it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The problem with spam filtering is that when a government official contacts you to ask you visit a website to supply your bank details so that they can wire frozen funds to you, the filter thinks something dodgy is happening.

      Usually it is of course, but the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (UK equivalent of FDIC) actually did send such an email to Icesave customers to tell them how to get their insured deposits back from Icesave which went bust a few weeks ago.

      Lots of ISPs, not just GMail, apparently use Google's spam filtering service, and it picked up the FSCS email as a 419 style spam.

    11. Re:As long as there is money in it... by Goaway · · Score: 0

      My net connection goes down far more often than GMail does. I've never even noticed GMail being down that I can remember.

      It's good enough for the vast majority of people, including me.

    12. Re:As long as there is money in it... by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      The ONLY way to attack this problem is to go after the advertisers who are willing to use spam as a medium to sell product.

      Your post advocates a

      ( ) technical (X) legislative (X) market-based (X) vigilante

      approach to fighting spam. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work.

      (X) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money.
      (X) The police will not put up with it.
      (X) Anyone could anonymously destroy anyone else's career or business.
      (X) Jurisdictional problems.
      (X) Dishonesty on the part of spammers themselves
      (X) Lack of centrally controlling authority for email
      (X) Open relays in foreign countries

      And my favorite...

      (X) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough

      You're (in most cases) right: the cause of spam is the profitability of spam. We need to make it not profitable.

      There's technical problems in altering the flow of mail, and there's jurisdictional problems in handling the flow of cash.

      Maybe if we start requiring emails to be signed by a user's keys, and keys would only be certified if you donated money to a charity or something; then we could blacklist keys if enough users reported them as sending spam [uh-oh, joe job ahead]... oh well...

    13. Re:As long as there is money in it... by Jonboy+X · · Score: 4, Funny

      the spam will flow. It's the old "balloon dog" effect. Squeeze it in one place and it balloons in another. The ONLY way to attack this problem is to go after the advertisers who are willing to use spam as a medium to sell product.

      I think we need to go after the clowns making the balloon animals!

      God, I hate clowns...

      --

      "In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user. You've got your own newsgroup, alt.total.loser." -Weird Al
    14. Re:As long as there is money in it... by squizzar · · Score: 1

      I'd suggest, although it's not a direct solution to spam, something along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecash would be a good place to start. I can't remember where I found the exact paper, but essentially it allowed completely anonymous electronic financial transactions. However if necessary a 'coin' could be marked with an additional signature from an investigative agency. This mark would be undetectable to the recipient, but could be traced, allowing illegal cash flow (e.g. money laundering) to be detcted. Thus somebody buys their dodgy pills or dodgy porn with traceable cash and the entire supply chain can be exposed.

      Rather than plugging ID cards and biometrics and all that crap, this would actually be a brilliant system to see implemented, that actually increases anonymity and facilitates law enforcement. Surely a net win?.

      I think it may have been: http://www.emis.de/journals/AUA/acta8/Popescu-Oros.pdf or something referenced to/from it.

    15. Re:As long as there is money in it... by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      We would disagree on 'good enough'. And counting yourself as the majority would be wrong, too. Hotmail, yahoo, and/or aol beats gmail by a significant margin, it's believed. Add them up and gmail becomes much smaller. It also proves that initial market share is difficult to surmount. Google knows this, and just presumes we think they've taken over the world. They have not.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    16. Re:As long as there is money in it... by squoozer · · Score: 1

      Or we could stick the balloon dog with a pin, I find that a pretty effective way to get rid of them.

      --
      I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    17. Re:As long as there is money in it... by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      So what's to stop them from tagging every "coin"?
      As for the mail analogy doesn't this run into the problem with having no central authority for email?

    18. Re:As long as there is money in it... by Goaway · · Score: 1

      Why are you even talking about market share now? Nobody has brought that up before, and I fail to see how it's relevant in any way.

    19. Re:As long as there is money in it... by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      And proxy anonymity stops me from sending spam how?

    20. Re:As long as there is money in it... by sgtstein · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I also am running all of my domain email address through Google Apps. I run all of my own servers. Because of this, my email server is setup to download all of the email from the Gmail accounts and sort it locally into the users mailboxes. This is difficult to setup and initially though it does allow you to use Google's amazing spam blocking options and still use your own "unlimited" storage. Currently my 50 or so users are sharing a 1TB drive. I'm not certain how much control you have over your servers and such, but just to let you know about my setup.

    21. Re:As long as there is money in it... by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      eventual authentication.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    22. Re:As long as there is money in it... by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      That's a pretty sweet way of setting it up.
      I might change to something like that if I get close to GMail's (ever-increasing) storage limit.
      Did you use a catch-all in GMail and then split into separate accounts again when you download them to your server, or did you register all 50 accounts with GMail? Does GMail push your mail to you or do you poll every so often for new mail? What's the additional latency on an email like?

      It would be nice if Google extended their server options to include a GMail server, so you could actually run GMail for your domain instead of passing your email through GMail's servers.

    23. Re:As long as there is money in it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So then that e-mail I got from the Nigerian prince might actually be real?

      Holy cow! I'm going to be rich! I just have to find out how to secure that $10,000 bond so they know I'm legit.

      Awesome!

    24. Re:As long as there is money in it... by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      You do know that google purchased Postini, don't you? they are pretty darn cheap. And almost certainly cheaper than maintaining and documenting your own funky, non-standard setup. Go look them up!

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    25. Re:As long as there is money in it... by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      Seems to me that only a minority of spam actually advertises a product anymore. Most of the spam these days seems to be links to malware, links to scam sites, out right scams in the e-mails themselves, or malware attachments. Even if ever legitimate business that uses spam to advertise stopped tomorrow, I doubt it would slow the flow all that much.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    26. Re:As long as there is money in it... by StrawberryFrog · · Score: 1

      Yes and no. The best way is to find and punish the spammers. That's why I don't think taking these servers off the net was the best thing to do - they should have been investigated instead.

      But raising the cost of spamming (e.g. have to change hosting provider more frequently) is ok, it also helps to drive them out.

      --

      My Karma: ran over your Dogma
      StrawberryFrog

    27. Re:As long as there is money in it... by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      What they took down was a webhost, ie the place where the spam revenue was earned. Without a way to sell their product, spammers can't be profitable, so they hit exactly the right place.

    28. Re:As long as there is money in it... by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Anonymous email is a new concept to me. That means that the receiver has no idea of who sended the message. I guess smtp, when used properly doesn't have this feature. There isn't even demand to it, who wants to send a non-personal personal message?

    29. Re:As long as there is money in it... by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hotmail, yahoo, and/or aol beats gmail by a significant margin, it's believed. Add them up and gmail becomes much smaller.

      Smaller yet better, then. Gmail's spam filtering makes the rest of them appear laughable. I have a Hotmail account and it's nearly unusable unless I set the spam filtering to "exclusive", which means if I get a message from someone who isn't in my address book I won't even realize I have it... i.e. it's nearly unusable with the spam filter set to "exclusive", too.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    30. Re:As long as there is money in it... by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      My gmail Junk folder gets 50+ spam emails per day, and I have to look at them because I get an occasional false positive.

      Really? The only false positives I recall getting were a few mailing lists that I signed up for, and one of those has an unpleasant penchant for sending advertising e-mails to their list. I had to tell it not to trash the mail from the lists that I wanted, and the list that advertises I just let Gmail sort out which messages are adverts and which might be interesting. I don't remember the last time I sorted through my junk mail folder.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    31. Re:As long as there is money in it... by arminw · · Score: 1

      ...The ONLY way to attack this problem is to go after the advertisers....

      Most likely not, until nobody buys any of the merchandise they try to sell. We get plenty of paper junk mail which is much more expensive than the electronic variety everybody is complaining about. In either case, electronic or paper it must be worth the advertisers while to do this, otherwise it would stop. Obviously, there must be people who think their penis can be enlarged or that they can get rich quickly and without effort.

      --
      All theory is gray
    32. Re:As long as there is money in it... by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      I use gmail precisely to avoid even having to worry about spam filtering. When I had my own vanity domain, I would have agreed with you. Now, I just don't care anymore as the problem has ceased to impact me (directly).

      There is a slight problem with GMail's spam filtering.

      Some government officials working for the British Government recently sent a load of emails asking people to visit a web site to confirm their bank details so they could access some frozen funds.

      Spam filters see this quite a lot from people proporting to act for the Nigerian government, and they thought these emails were the same, and promptly deleted them.

      Unfortunately for Google, and lots of other ISPs that use Google's spam filtering service, these emails really were from the British government. They were from the FSCS, the British equivalent of FDIC, and they were email customers of the failed IceSave bank telling them how to claim their money back - they had to log on to IceSave's website, confirm the details of their linked account and agree to assign their creditor claims against IceSave to FSCS. FSCS would then wire the money across to them.

    33. Re:As long as there is money in it... by sgtstein · · Score: 1

      I actually imported all 50 accounts. It was easier at the time. And adding them still is easy enough. Once documented correctly and everything working it seems alright. Though, I will have to go check out Postini like the other guy mentioned. My server polls the the server every 15min. Our business is not extremely time critical so this seems to be an alright added latency. I do agree, it would be great if you could just bounce your emails through their spam filters. What an even easier load that would be.

    34. Re:As long as there is money in it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the old "balloon dog" effect. Squeeze it in one place and it balloons in another.

      but if you squeeze it really really hard, it will burst and make the kid cry

    35. Re:As long as there is money in it... by migla · · Score: 1

      The thing is to set up a system where there's no point to spam. Think outside the capitalist box.

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    36. Re:As long as there is money in it... by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      There's still "convert to my religion" spam and "I liked having nice things back when we were in the capitalist box, viv la revolution!" spam

    37. Re:As long as there is money in it... by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      ???
      either you can authenticate the sender and they're not anonymouse or you can't authenticate the sender and they can send spam.

    38. Re:As long as there is money in it... by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      with smtp it's fairly trivial to forge a message so it appears to come from someone else and if you include some way I can send an email in an untraceable manner then what's stopping me from sending spam.

      As for why you might want to send a message to people without being traced?

      "Everyone!
      i've uncovered proof that the government is killing political dissidents and I have proof! *insert proof like a confidential message signed with the presidents private key*
      They'll probably kill me if they trace this!
      From
      A dissident"

  6. Wow by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had ONE spam message last night. I average probably 20 a night.

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    1. Re:Wow by mzs · · Score: 1

      Yes I have seen a 95% decrease as well and the ones that came through get easily filtered.

    2. Re:Wow by Stormx2 · · Score: 1

      Mine:

      Nov 10th: 5 messages
      Nov 11th: 17 messages
      Nov 12th (so far, it's 4:20pm): 3 messages

      I guess you need to receive an awful lot of spam in order to get reliable data on a reduction.

    3. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nov. 10: 89
      Nov. 11: 85
      Today so far (Nov. 12, 11:35am EST): 20

      The day's half over, so it's pretty good. Problem is, I get a lot of overseas spam, so this one provider's termination won't make too much of a difference on my inbox.

    4. Re:Wow by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      It's true. I run several mail servers, with varying spam filtering solutions... there's been a dramatic drop. Huge.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    5. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? You get spam? I mean, I do too, but I only actually *see* maybe one per month for the past 4-5 years, ever since I started using GMail. False positive rate is essentially nil, at least for the past couple years.

  7. Sigh by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Well, I guess now my Nigerian prince will never come.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Sigh by ji777 · · Score: 1

      Only because he is now being held by rebel forces. His relative still needs your help, seeing as he has heard you are a reliable person, moving his disposed relative's vast fortune across seas... simply wire transfer him a small sum to cover legal fees and he will share a percentage with you!

    2. Re:Sigh by sjwest · · Score: 1

      go kiss some frogs, maybe a local zoo has some from the region and that might become princes.

      Worked for the Brothers Grimm.

    3. Re:Sigh by Sique · · Score: 1

      It in fact didn't.

      In the Brothers Grimm's fairy tale the frog never got kissed. The princess threw him against the wall, cursing him (yes, I have the german original here ;) ).

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    4. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why, does he rub it off to child porn?

    5. Re:Sigh by sjwest · · Score: 1

      Im not quite sure the zoo will like that, but ok, anything for a prince.

  8. is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by petes_PoV · · Score: 4, Interesting

    as the title says. if it gets them "off the air" is this a public service or a criminal act (or both)?

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Since morality is subjective, only you can decide. However, it is certainly illegal, and could get you sent to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by mdmkolbe · · Score: 2, Informative

      This was not a DDoS. They simply convinced their upstream providers to cut them off.

      This is perfectly legal(*) and moral, but is most cases completely impractical (upstreamers don't want to loose the revenue stream, downstreamers can always find a new upstream, etc).

      Of course it is also very susceptible to abuse as it is the digital age's equivalent of old-world shunning.

      (*) There may be contractual obligations and penalties for such actions but perhaps the downstreamer's bad behavior might contractually dissolve those obligations (it depends on the contract).

    3. Re:is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by inviolet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Since morality is subjective, only you can decide. However, it is certainly illegal, and could get you sent to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.

      Interesting. So it's up to me whether it is good or bad to eat broken glass.

      Look, since your mission is to undermine everyone's certainty, at least do it right. The one part of morality that is completely subjective is the discount rate, which is the time horizon that you set for your outcomes. Most things are good in the short term and bad in the long term, or vice versa, or some mixture. Nobody anywhere has yet figured out any rule for choosing or weighting one's time horizon.

      Indeed, probably most political disagreements are really disagreements over time horizon. E.g., stay in Iraq? It's all about how far into the future you look for justification.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    4. Re:is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      as the title says. if it gets them "off the air" is this a public service or a criminal act (or both)?

      Would you have preferred they said "out of the tubes"?

    5. Re:is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fuck the spam issues, even though that was a good thing taking them out. I noticed that a blurb at the bottom said they where in with other criminal activities including hosting child porn sites. I want to know why someone isn't headed off to prison if this is a US based company.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    6. Re:is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by evanbd · · Score: 1

      Vigilante justice is always morally wrong. Of course punishing the bad guys is a public service; that's not the issue. The issue is that vigilante justice has very low standards of proof and no opportunity for the accused to defend themselves.

    7. Re:is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by X0563511 · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is no vigilante justice. Someone noticed things that are (usually) contract terminators, notified the hosting provider, who then exercised their rights that were reserved in the contract between them and the customer.

      There was no justice, only contract fulfillment.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    8. Re:is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by evanbd · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah. But I was replying to the parent post, not the article.

    9. Re:is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by megrims · · Score: 1

      Interesting. So it's up to me whether it is good or bad to eat broken glass.

      Exactly. Try not to confuse words of observation with words of moral judgement.

      The broken glass will probably cut you.

    10. Re:is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Interesting. So it's up to me whether it is good or bad to eat broken glass.

      Not only is that up to you, but it is up to you whether it is right or wrong to eat broken glass - which is what we're actually talking about here.

      Look, since your mission is to undermine everyone's certainty, at least do it right

      My mission is to point out the truth. Morality is subjective. It's in the definition.

      Nobody anywhere has yet figured out any rule for choosing or weighting one's time horizon.

      That is why law should never attempt to legislate morality. You regulate the places where people interface and otherwise leave them alone.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:is it morally right to DDoS spaming ISPs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >

      Interesting. So it's up to me whether it is good or bad to eat broken glass.

      Sorry, but on what planet is the question of whether or not to eat broken glass a moral question?

      Time horizons? Discount rates?! What sort of second-rate philosophizing is that?!

      Most things are good in the short term and bad in the long term, or vice versa, or some mixture

      No shit sherlock! You've just described 3 non-discreet states that can account for any possibility!

      I understand exactly 0% of your arguments with the OP.

  9. Hosting Child porn? by arkham6 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    According to the article, the provider hosted servers that provided child porn.

    1: Is that really possible for kiddie porn sites to be active in the US?
    2: If its true, would that company be partially responsible legally speaking?

    1. Re:Hosting Child porn? by bhima · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have come to the conclusion that it must be impossible to engage in any criminal activity which does not somehow involve child porn, as it seems to me that all stories of illicit behavior include accusations of trafficking in child porn.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    2. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Goaway · · Score: 1

      It's not impossible, but it certainly is stupid to not take that chance. Pedophiles tend to be gullible and desperate, and you can no doubt make a killing off them with extremely little effort, provided you have no conscience.

    3. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      all stories of illicit behavior include accusations of trafficking in child porn

      And terrorism or drugs.

    4. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Pedophiles tend to be gullible and desperate,.."

      Well the ones that get caught most certainly are, but they are mostly self-selecting.

    5. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Goaway · · Score: 1

      I wasn't talking about those who get caught.

    6. Re:Hosting Child porn? by pipatron · · Score: 3, Funny

      Pedophiles tend to be gullible and desperate

      citation needed

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    7. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Beorytis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...all stories of illicit behavior include accusations of trafficking in child porn.

      Is this a new corollary to Godwin's Law?

    8. Re:Hosting Child porn? by X0563511 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's because child porn is the legal Easy Button, in the same way that 'think of the children' is the legislative "Easy Button.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    9. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Goaway · · Score: 5, Funny

      Welcome to Casual Conversation. Many of you may already know this, but Casual Conversation is not Wikipedia. Wikipedia rules such as requiring citations and not allowing original research do not, in fact, apply here. This may be confusing to first-time users, but we hope you will soon adapt and find out the joys of Casual Conversation.

      Enjoy your stay!

    10. Re:Hosting Child porn? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      1: Is that really possible for kiddie porn sites to be active in the US?

      Until they're shut down, I suppose. The question is why weren't they shut down sooner?

      2: If its true, would that company be partially responsible legally speaking?

      If they knew about it...

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    11. Re:Hosting Child porn? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Eh? How do you get this information, then?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    12. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it is nearly impossible to get any potential criminal activity investigated unless it includes accusations of child porn. Or, if you happen to have a metric shit ton of wealth, that helps, too.

    13. Re:Hosting Child porn? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      If you don't catch the un-caught pedophiles, how can you tell that they were gullible and desperate?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    14. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sorry, guess you didn't the memo. saying 'citation needed' is a polite way of calling bullshit. HTH HAND

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    15. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Goaway · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, it's merely a way of showing that you confuse Wikipedia with reality, and are unable to express yourself in your own words.

    16. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Goaway · · Score: 1

      By having to deal with them and their shit on the net.

      Try running a site that lets people post images and comments, and soon enough you will to have the displeasure of doing so.

    17. Re:Hosting Child porn? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Those are the ones that get caught... you know, the ones who are stupid enough to post on a public message board that probably logs their IP address?

      Or were all of them using proxies? I doubt it...

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    18. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      No, I don't use it myself. Anyway, do you have anything to back up your statements, or should I assume it's just ill-informed ranting?

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    19. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to /. Many of you may already know this, but most posting on /. consists of wildly exaggerated claims by people with absolutely no knowledge of TFA or the subject at hand. To such a post, the appropriate response is a simple tongue-in-cheek "[Citation needed]". This is a spin-off of the Wikipedia usage; however its correct usage on /. should not be confused with the Wikipedia usage of the phrase. This may be confusing to first-time users, but we hope you will soon adapt and find out the joys of /.

      ...wait, what am I saying? I meant:

      You must be new here.

    20. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Goaway · · Score: 1

      Experience. If you don't want to listen to that, that's your problem.

    21. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Huh, I have no experience with pedophiles, but I was hoping for something a bit more solid than your personal anecdotes.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    22. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Goaway · · Score: 1

      I've got some pretty good anecdotes, though!

      After some pedophile spammer posted links to one of his sites on a site I admined, I took a look and noticed it was running really bad Chinese message board software, and let users post unfiltered HTML.

      So I sat down and wrote a piece of Javascript that would post a copy of itself with a random headline on the board when viewed, and then send the user to Last Measure, and I posted this on the board. Of course, it started multiplying quickly as each user viewing a single message caused it to repost itself with a new title.

      Once the admin noticed this - and like I said, he was not too bright - he turned on his spamming software on his own board, to try and flood the self-replicator out. This worked for about five minutes, until somebody browsed far enough back into the list to find one of the old messages, and then it started all over again.

      A couple days later, the site hit a hardcoded limit at 30000 posts, and refused to let anyone post any more.

    23. Re:Hosting Child porn? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      truly an epic tale of dickery - I'll have to remember it.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  10. Recomment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The comments on the Washington Post site are pretty worthless, but this one was particularly good:

    "Brian - Well done, and well reported. For the user who asked about reporting news versus creating news, you misunderstand Krebs's reporting. Like most good reporters who write big stories, he either got tips or analyzed data regarding spam and cyber-security. It probably was a combination of both. If he determined from his research, reporting and analysis that this data was coming from one place, he did not create a story by informing the spam host's business partners. Rather, he sought comment from them about this site, and they took action. What Krebs reported is not a big a story as Watergate, but what do you think Woodward & Bernstein did? Wait for a press release? A regulatory filing? No, they took one news event, worked backwards from it, and determined that something big was going on -- just like a spammer. Then they wrote about it, just like Krebs did. When Henry Blodget on Silicon Alley Insider wrote that The New York Times Co faces several possibilities for survival, he did not tap into a planned news event. He analyzed a balance sheet and made conclusions. Much of the news that comes out is because beat reporters see connections and draw conclusions that are not opinion, but reasoned and accurate viewpoints based on evidence out there that resists coalescing into a larger news event because most of us don't get it. That's why we have journalists, and this is a great example of that. And now for the full disclosure: I'm Robert MacMillan. I am a reporter at Reuters who covers the journalism business, and I worked at washingtonpost.com for many years with Brian. I sat right across from him so I know what he eats for lunch. Posted by: easymac | November 11, 2008 9:45 PM "

  11. Better to NOT shut them down? by plsuh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When it comes to these sorts of things, oft times law enforcement and intelligence agencies who know about a source of major operations DON"T shut them down, so as to build a case against the bigger players or to maintain the ability to track what is going on. Given that this is a US-based corporation with US-based servers, I wonder if this shutdown has seriously compromised on-going monitoring and criminal cases. While this has almost certainly seriously disrupted operations of the various bad guys for now, I would give it only a few days before they're back online based at overseas locations where they're less easily reachable. Except for some script kiddies, the operations are all sophisticated enough to use standard techniques such as multiple hardcoded fallback IPs. DNS redirection, and using fake BGP announcements to hijack IP blocks to get back online.

    --Paul

    1. Re:Better to NOT shut them down? by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I think law enforcement and intelligence is too busy working hard in other areas (IMHO due to mismanagement and fear campaigns) to be able to handle their traditional roles. If you see criminal activity that you can stop immediately without any danger to yourself why look the other way? You can report it later instead of making yourself an accessory after the fact by condoning the criminal activity by continuing to let them operate with your resources.

      As for the other stuff, in a world scripted by Tom Clancy the supervillians simply switch to their backup systems. However in reality shutting down something that has taken a long time to establish can stop them for a long time and can open them up to exposure when they are trying to do it again.

    2. Re:Better to NOT shut them down? by garylian · · Score: 1

      If Law Enforcement was really hell bent on shutting down child porn, it would happen. But they aren't.

      It's been way too easy to find child porn on Usenet for decades. You could just read the underage non-nude groups, and sooner or later someone will post which newsgroup has the hardcore child porn. Eventually, providers would shut the group down, and it would respawn in another alt.bin group within a week.

      I've reported which newsgroup is getting the stuff at least a dozen times in the past 5 years directly to the FBI via various websites they have for it, usually the Center for Missing and Exploited Children. I was a semi-active member with a newsgroup that centered around women with smaller busts, and we reported any underage posts without a warning shot. The group FAQ warned about it, and enforcement was hard and fast. So, the FBI and other agencies know where to find it.

      If they really wanted to get these folks, they could get a court order to make newsgroup providers pony up some IP addresses and then get the ISP's to give some names. They should be able to sweep up huge numbers in short order. And yet we get one major bust announcement every 6-12 months, and they barely skim the surface. They don't seem to nail the producers and distributors. They nail the folks viewing it.

      As the old saying goes: "There are thousands hacking at the branches of evil to the one who is striking at the root." That seems to sum up the war on child porn pretty well. It sums up the war on drugs, as well.

    3. Re:Better to NOT shut them down? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right idea, Paul. I would take the argument one step further also. When I see stuff like this, I suspect an out-of-control above-the-law intelligence agency front company (choose your favorite: CIA? Mossad? MI6?) is actually running the show and making the money. I guess we won't know the actual story until punishments are dished out to the perpetrators. I won't be surprised when they get off clean and vanish into the night all on account of "National Security Secrecy".

  12. I wonder what made them turn? by EmperorKagato · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is their AUP from 2005 (Mccolo.com)

    Acceptable Use Policy (AUP)

    All Maxis' Commerce colocation or dedicated server customers are bound by the following Acceptable Use Policy. This document may be updated from time to time. Please consult this site periodically for the most recent revision of this document.

    No Maxis' Commerce customer shall:

    Do anything illegal or anything that adversely affects Maxis' Commerce legal interests. The following list is non-exclusive, and should not be considered license to commit other illegal activities not specified below. All illegal activity is prohibited, and Maxis Commerce will cooperate fully with any law enforcement officials and/or agencies investigating and/or prosecuting such activities.

    Cracking/Hacking - attempts to access accounts or systems other than the userâ(TM)s own accounts or systems or an account or system that the user has been explicitly authorized to access is illegal under federal and state law.

    Child pornography - as defined by U.S. law. This is strictly prohibited and dealt with quickly and harshly.

    Interstate gambling - because Internet traffic generally ignores state and country boundaries, any Internet based gambling site is restricted by Federal Inter-state gambling regulations.

    Pyramid schemes or fraud - are illegal under a number of Federal, State and Local laws.

    Theft of services - attempts to utilize services that are not contracted for is considered theft and will be dealt with as such.

    Harassment - use of Maxis' Commerce network to harass or threaten (in the legal sense of those terms) any other person is prohibited.

    Please consult an attorney if you are unsure of the legal status of your activities.

    Do anything that threatens the integrity of Maxis' Commerce network or the utilization there of by other persons.

    Denial of Service (DOS) attacks - no customer will commit a DOS attack against any Maxis Commerce customerâ(TM)s host, or any other host on the Internet. Similarly, no Maxis Commerce customer will willfully or negligently allow incitement of others to attack any host on Maxis' Commerce network, or any other host on the Internet.

    Blacklists - No customer shall do anything that could get any portion of Maxis' Commerce IP space (or address space announced by Maxis Commerce on behalf of Customer) put on blacklists such the RBL (Realtime Black List) as maintained by MAPS (http://www.mail-abuse.com) or other similar organizations, or perform activities that would cause portions of the Internet to block mail or refuse to route traffic to any portion of Maxis' Commerce IP space (or address space announced by Maxis Commerce on behalf of Customer).

    Perform actions that cause unusual load on Maxis' Commerce servers (for example, mail servers, web servers, usenet servers, name servers, etc.), that cause slowness or denial of service to other Maxis Commerce customers.

    Do anything that threatens the Internet or any other network.

    No customer shall take actions that cause any portion of the Internet, or the Internet as a whole, to become unusable to any other portion of the Internet, or the Internet as a whole.

    No customer shall take actions that degrade the usefulness of the Internet, or any portion of the Internet, either through network degradation, flooding of usenet or email or so on.

    Spam - No customer shall send unsolicited commercial email, unsolicited mass mailings, spam or flood usenet newsgroups, or anything of that sort. If you have questions about what is allowed and what is not, please email abuse@mccolo.com for clarification.

    No spam may originate from Maxis Commerce IP space.

    No spam may advertise sites or services located on Maxis Commerce IP space (even if the spam originates elsewhere).

    No Maxis Commerce customer shall use third party mail servers to relay spam. This is considered a DOS attack on the third party and will be treated as such.

    No customer shall participate in pyramid schemes

    --
    ----- You know you have ego issues when you register a domain in your name.
    1. Re:I wonder what made them turn? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Apparently it wasn't enforced.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  13. How much spam? by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, how much spam does everyone get each day on average? I think I get between 5 and 8, not much by most people's standards I imagine it's still depressing to see.

    I'll be interested to see if this number goes down in the next few weeks, but I doubt I'll notice.

    1. Re:How much spam? by SCHecklerX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You'd have to ask my greylist, mimedefang, and spamassassin filters, as most of it gets killed before even making it to the 3rd, which kills the rest. Stuff in that small threshold I allow, maybe 1-2 every couple of months gets through, and that's usually from a company I actually had done business with in the past.

      Mimedefang rejections on dumb things at the helo/from stage, and greylisting kill most things without ever having to receive or process it.

    2. Re:How much spam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My gmail spam folder contains 35374 mails. I suppose I am a tad over average then...

    3. Re:How much spam? by argent · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So, how much spam does everyone get each day on average?

      Well, according to my mail logs, my mail server that currently provides mail service for myself in the past 8 hours:

      Has blocked 2879 messages, based simply on the IP address, using RBLs.
      Has blocked 1013 messages, based on some early tests in mail delivery.
      Has passed 176 messages on for further filtering, with my address. I haven't checked how many were to my wife or to invalid addresses. Typically that's several hundred an hour.

      The next level of filtering:

      Dropped 18 messages completely.
      Filed 127 messages in the "probable spam" box, where they will be deleted within a week.
      Delivered 31 messages to my home server.

      Of those messages, about half of those were filed as "spam" by Apple's Mail.app.

      That's pretty low by my standards. Good work.

    4. Re:How much spam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeesh...I've got over 12,000 in my Gmail box right now, or 400 per day. However one of the addresses I use there has been open since about 1990.

    5. Re:How much spam? by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Depends on the account. One account I've had for close to a decade is inundated. I barely use it any more and deleted all the aliases I gave out to places I wasn't sure of, but it seems that the root address is on all the lists. It's unusable and I now check it about once a month to remove the two to three thousand spam messages that have accumulated.

      My other accounts sit behind varying levels of spam filtering, rbl checking, SMTP validation, SPF, rDNS etc etc so not too much gets through. Thunderbird tends to eat the rest.

    6. Re:How much spam? by bipbop · · Score: 1

      About 10,000. *sigh*

    7. Re:How much spam? by Ant+P. · · Score: 2, Funny

      Zero. I stopped using email and can't say I miss it.

    8. Re:How much spam? by ed.mps · · Score: 1

      my spam folder has 1146 currently, so I can say, 35 spam/day on average and the same 4 years apply to me

      --
      !sig
    9. Re:How much spam? by s7uar7 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Gmail holds spam in a separate folder for 30 days before deleting them. Usually I have around 3000 emails in there, around 100/day, but at the moment I only have 1442; over the last 4 days I've only averaged 30 spam emails a day (900ish a month).

    10. Re:How much spam? by pipatron · · Score: 1

      I get about 100/day on a gmail account a couple of years old, and I always display my full email address everywhere (for example here on slashdot). There's no point hiding it when gmail handle all the spam for me.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    11. Re:How much spam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About 10,000. *sigh*

      That's over 9000!!!

    12. Re:How much spam? by windex82 · · Score: 1

      Well, I emptied mine out on the first and have come up with an average of 29 per day to my personal email account hosted by google. This account also has 4 other accounts forward to it as well as about 12 aliases.

      My work account receives 5-10 external mails a day and once a week one comes through tagged as spam. No aliases, no other accounts forwarding to it. Using a local provider to facilitate spam scrubbing. They built a cluster of spam assassin servers which do a decent job.

      When I used to be on the other side providing the spam scrubbing services I though gray listing was the best thing since sliced bread. Being on the other side I'm not convinced. It takes out a great deal of spam but waiting for the retry can be killer. Especially when you need a confirmation letter or such and the last time you were mailed by the domain was never or more than the filter allows for.

    13. Re:How much spam? by VisceralLogic · · Score: 1

      It seems all the AIM private message spams are gone now...

      --
      Stop! Dremel time!
    14. Re:How much spam? by riker1384 · · Score: 1

      I mostly use Yahoo accounts, and I get around 8-10 in my main account, the one that I've posted all over the Internet before spam was an issue. I used to get over 100 spams a day on that one, much more than my legit email. I've wondered whether this means there's less spam now, or if Yahoo is just better at filtering. The 100+ a day spams included the ones put in my spam folder, but maybe they're completely blocking some of them now.

  14. OMFG!! by glock22ownr · · Score: 5, Funny

    MY SITE IS DOWN!! WTF !

    --
    Eye for an eye and half of the world will have just one eye!
    1. Re:OMFG!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The child porn one or the spam one?

    2. Re:OMFG!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All your spam are belong to us.

  15. ISPs are clueless? by Bearhouse · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Also FTA:

    'Two hours later, I heard from Benny Ng, director of marketing for Hurricane Electric, the Fremont, Calif., company that was the other major Internet provider for McColo.

    Hurricane Electric took a much stronger public stance: "We shut them down," Ng said.

    "We looked into it a bit, saw the size and scope of the problem you were reporting and said 'Holy cow! Within the hour we had terminated all of our connections to them."'

    So, after much hand-waving here, and elsewhere, about what info the Gov. and your ISP may be collecting about you, they could not spot this, a major spam, child-porn and theft site?

    Maybe the honest version would be;
    "We were making shitloads of money out of selling bandwidth to these bastards, 'no questions asked', but now you've blown the whistle on them I guess we've gotta look responsible."

    1. Re:ISPs are clueless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Because Hurricane Electric is operated by a boatload of fucking imbeciles. As someone who had cage/rack space (as a form of 2nd data centre) from them for numerous years, I can assure you their operational methods are quite possibly the worst (particularly in the Bay).

      It comes as no surprise that "HE had no idea this was happening". They have no idea what's happening on their network at any time.

      Imagine calling them because your network port is showing 30-40mbit/sec incoming traffic, destined to IPs that aren't even in your netblock (but are assigned to another HE-hosted company), and having two engineers tell you "that's impossible". You provide them tcpdump pcaps, and they tell you "those can't be real". The issue mysteriously gets resolved 72 hours later, and no one calls you back to tell you what the problem was. When you inquire, you're told "a customer had a misconfigured load balancer", which just induces even more questions about their network setup.

      Imagine a co-location provider that does not use vlans or any form of layer 2 segregation between customers, relies on out-of-country ISPs to provide connectivity between them and large tier-1 ISPs (specific example: peering with Telia -- a Swedish ISP that does not have a US-based NOC -- exclusively to gain access to AT&T's network), and has no form of failover redundancy, specifically on their core routers (they did have redundancy at the switch level). I'm absolutely convinced their Fremont data centre had a single public-facing router.

      Their main Cisco GSR would crash/lock up for 10-15 minutes at time, before rebooting on its own or being administratively power-cycled. "What is happening with your network? No inbound or outbound packets make it to their dest" "We have an open case with Cisco" "Why was there no failover?" "We've an open case with Cisco". 2 months later, repeat. "Is this the same issue as 3 months ago?" "We believe so" "And why have you not replaced the hardware?" "We've an open case with Cisco". This issue went on for THREE YEARS.

      Then there's their UPS/power situation: twice during a single year their Fremont data centre lost power for 6-7 full minutes at a time. Both times, it was caused by "unexpected problems during maintenance"... but they supposedly have back-up gas generators, and tote photos of them on their web site.

      Then there's the cages. The cages are enclosures which should be 4-post, and are intended to be 4-post, but are front-mounted 2-post (and by front-mounted I don't mean telco style!). Generic, non-managed power strips are shoved into the cages, intended for you to use (rather than a 1 or 2U SNMP-managed PDU at the top of the rack). The cages are not deep enough for full-length servers, which results in full-length boxes blocking said power strip AC outlets. 42U rack, but only 6 or 7 AC outlets usable (unless you spaced your servers in a peculiar way, wasting about 1/3rd of your entire rack).

      One word: ghetto.

      When you consider all of the above, no one in their right mind should be surprised they were hosting a kiddie porn/spam/shady customer. "Build it and they will come".

    2. Re:ISPs are clueless? by lysergic.acid · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      i've never heard of these particular ISPs or web hosts, so i don't know what their policies are. but i would be pretty pissed off if Verizon, Cox Digital, Comcast, etc. were packet shaping to throttle p2p traffic while letting spammers inundate mail servers around the world with spam and spreading mal-ware that actually causes real damages to people and businesses.

      the RIAA/MPAA have government support for forcing ISPs to finger subscribers accused of illegal file sharing, and are even allowed to circumvent the courts to obtain private user info. this may be the interests of a powerful industry lobby, but it in no way serves public interest. meanwhile, clamping down on SPAM originating domestically does serve public interest, but the government has done little to combat spam, even protecting spammers to an extent with the CAN-SPAM act by preventing individuals from suing spammers, or states from enacting stricter anti-spam laws.

      the only thing i can think of to explain this disparity is that spam is a form of marketing, and the U.S. government has always had a very pro-business attitude, to the extent of even placing commercial interests above public interest. since a lot of big, well-known corporations also employ spammers to advertise their products & services, and because the spammers themselves are engaging in commerce/capitalism, it has been sanctioned for so long and even granted a degree of legal legitimacy. in stark contrast, the federal government started cracking down on file sharing in 1996 when the DMCA was passed.

      so i a grandma, who only uses her computer to check e-mail once a month, or a 7-year-old girl who downloaded a couple Britney Spears songs she heard on the radio, can be sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages by the RIAA. but someone whose computer is shot to shit by commercially-developed malware is powerless against the companies who make money off of that malware. i guess the lesson here is that it's ok to be unethical so long as you're exploiting people for profit.

    3. Re:ISPs are clueless? by SuperQ · · Score: 1

      LOL, I was considering buying space in a HE building.. I'm now _really_ glad I am putting my stuff in layer42.

    4. Re:ISPs are clueless? by danaris · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the RIAA/MPAA have government support for forcing ISPs to finger subscribers accused of illegal file sharing, and are even allowed to circumvent the courts to obtain private user info. this may be the interests of a powerful industry lobby, but it in no way serves public interest. meanwhile, clamping down on SPAM originating domestically does serve public interest, but the government has done little to combat spam, even protecting spammers to an extent with the CAN-SPAM act by preventing individuals from suing spammers, or states from enacting stricter anti-spam laws.

      Don't tell us, tell your Senators and Representatives. We all know this stuff already...

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    5. Re:ISPs are clueless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aah, good old Slashdot. Where any argument, no matter what it's about, can instantly be transformed into "WHAAAAAH! PEOPLE WHO PIRATE MOVIES ARE WHAAAAAAAARGARBL! IT'S NOT STEALING, IT'S SHAAARIWHAAAAAAARGARBL! INFORMATION WANTS TO BE WHAAAAAAAARGARBL!"

      -----
      Filter error filter error filter error, fuck you up the ass and your filter error. Use fewer junk characters? Why not try to be less of a pedantic asshole, you filter fuck?

    6. Re:ISPs are clueless? by NevarMore · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So, I don't mean to be a dick here or anything, but you had those kinds of problems with a vendor you were using as a data centre not just once, but over a timespan measured in YEARS.

      While you anecdotes indicate that HE does have problems, I think the bigger concern is that they have customers who put up with those problems. What golden nugget are we missing? Do they have higher than normal payouts for failing to meet SLAs?

    7. Re:ISPs are clueless? by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      As someone who had cage/rack space (as a form of 2nd data centre) from them for numerous years, I can assure you their operational methods are quite possibly the worst (particularly in the Bay).

      I'm sorry, what? What company do you work for, so I can avoid it?

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    8. Re:ISPs are clueless? by JohnnyComeLately · · Score: 2, Insightful

      His management may have been too inept to see the problems as badly as the "geek engineer" who had to deal with the issues. It's very costly to move, and easy to just bury your head in the sand. I'm not surprised they went through this for years. Sounds like a data center from hell and tech support from Sprint LOL

    9. Re:ISPs are clueless? by Foolicious · · Score: 1

      Because Hurricane Electric is operated by a boatload of fucking imbeciles. As someone who had cage/rack space (as a form of 2nd data centre) from them for numerous years, I can assure you their operational methods are quite possibly the worst (particularly in the Bay).

      This raises the question that if things were so bad, why did you use them for "numerous years"?

      --
      Please don't use "umm" or "err" or "erm".
    10. Re:ISPs are clueless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine a co-location provider that does not use vlans or any form of layer 2 segregation between customers

      Wow, you just described aplus.net's dedicated server network!

    11. Re:ISPs are clueless? by Binkleyz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Shit, I could dumb down the issues presented here into words of no more than 3 syllables, and my Rep (Joe Pitts, PA-16, a man who is (Not that it really matters..) significantly to the right of, say, Genghis Khan) who might actually agree to actually listen to me for 5 minutes or so if I asked him REAL nicely, and my 2 senators (Specter and Casey (who almost certainly would not) would not understand more than 20% of it.

      I'd be better off talking to a wall.

    12. Re:ISPs are clueless? by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      I agree, instead of wasting loads of time doing just the reporting, make the politicians aware of this, and which ips might be getting their kiddie p0rn from, and which ips resolve to the same ips as the politicians, .....hey...wait a minute.....isn't that senator xxx ip address......hhhummmm....

      Why do you think the politicians don't do anything,....because they don't want to lose their only p0rn site.

    13. Re:ISPs are clueless? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Maybe if you used fewer parentheses...

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    14. Re:ISPs are clueless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could always move to Infinity Internet. I know they love spammers.

    15. Re:ISPs are clueless? by HappyEngineer · · Score: 1

      But you apparently used them for at least 3 years. I can only assume then that they must be very cheap compared to other places.

      That seems reasonable to me. If they pull crap like that, but the customers don't leave, then why should they spend money to become better?

    16. Re:ISPs are clueless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hurricane Electric is positively clueless. We used a midwest-based hosting web service that colocated at HE's Fremont site. The service just got worse as their tech support began to spend more time with Hurricane than us (their customers). We swapped hosting providers and let the contract run out for the last few days and would be surprised if any of HE's clients are still in business a year later.

    17. Re:ISPs are clueless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe someone can answer this intelligently...

      How come someone smarter than me isn't usurping control of these botnets and either self-destructing them or turning the keys over to the relevant authorities?

      Is the malware so much better than your typical windows app? Seems to me everything that takes commands remotely has been cracked at one point or another.

  16. Holy generic viagra batman! by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1, Funny

    Does that mean that I will NOT be getting my millions of dollars from that friendly nigerian prince?

  17. Registration? by Hatta · · Score: 1

    The story, linked to from the story, linked to by slashdot requires registration. Anyone got a handy login?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:Registration? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.bugmenot.com/view/washingtonpost.com

    2. Re:Registration? by compro01 · · Score: 1

      It's not asking me for a login (Could be as I'm Canadian and in Canada), but did you try bugmenot??

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  18. BS. Not by volume. by suso · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This couldn't be by volume. Given the amount of spam that everyone receives every day, I don't think a single ISP could possibly generate 75% of it. It would take multiple gigabit connections and I'm sure someone would have already noticed that kind of traffic coming from one place.

    1. Re:BS. Not by volume. by radish · · Score: 4, Informative

      RTFA. The ISP in question hosted the control points for the botnets which generated the spam. They didn't need crazy bandwidth, just solid hosting.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    2. Re:BS. Not by volume. by suso · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ok, I did RTFA that slashdot posted too, but not the link inside the article. The initial article didn't mention anything about botnets and made it sound like it was the source of the spam.

      What I don't like about this is that it gives normal people a false sense of security about the whole issue. The real issue is that governments aren't cracking down on people within their borders causing these problems including the U.S.

      The Washington Post is not a security agency, they are a news agency. And when they do stuff like this they don't really have the right motives. Its just like those investigative reports that your local news channel does.

      Slimy business practices have a way to continuing on despite everything, so in the wake of McColo it won't be long before we have a Colo King.

    3. Re:BS. Not by volume. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTFA ?

      You must be new here.

    4. Re:BS. Not by volume. by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      I'd have to say that the real issue is unsecured computers on line that are easily turned into spambots.

      Remove the insecurity & you'll reduce the spambots.

      But, apparently, that's not a practical solution...

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  19. Have no fear! by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 1
    --
    "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    1. Re:Have no fear! by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      Oh that's funny! The shortened URL for your link came out as "[enzyte-mal...cement.com]" aka "Enzyte - bad cement".

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    2. Re:Have no fear! by compro01 · · Score: 2, Funny

      It'll make you rock hard, but then it will crumble after a few months.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    3. Re:Have no fear! by AMSmith42 · · Score: 4, Funny

      For erections lasting more than 4 months, see a mason.

  20. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  21. That's tough, and here's why by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

    Or change the protocol set to something that can still work with anonymous yet non-commercial/legal mail.

    Sure, that's easy. Here's a few things to think about:

    Your post advocates a

    (X) technical ( ) legislative ( ) market-based ( ) vigilante

    approach to fighting spam. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which used to vary from state to state before a bad federal law was passed.)

    ( ) Spammers can easily use it to harvest email addresses
    ( ) Mailing lists and other legitimate email uses would be affected
    ( ) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money
    ( ) It is defenseless against brute force attacks
    (X) It will stop spam for two weeks and then we'll be stuck with it
    ( ) Users of email will not put up with it
    ( ) Microsoft will not put up with it
    ( ) The police will not put up with it
    ( ) Requires too much cooperation from spammers
    ( ) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once
    ( ) Many email users cannot afford to lose business or alienate potential employers
    ( ) Spammers don't care about invalid addresses in their lists
    ( ) Anyone could anonymously destroy anyone else's career or business

    Specifically, your plan fails to account for

    ( ) Laws expressly prohibiting it
    (X) Lack of centrally controlling authority for email
    ( ) Open relays in foreign countries
    ( ) Ease of searching tiny alphanumeric address space of all email addresses
    (X) Asshats
    ( ) Jurisdictional problems
    ( ) Unpopularity of weird new taxes
    ( ) Public reluctance to accept weird new forms of money
    (X) Huge existing software investment in SMTP
    (X) Susceptibility of protocols other than SMTP to attack
    (X) Willingness of users to install OS patches received by email
    (X) Armies of worm riddled broadband-connected Windows boxes
    (X) Eternal arms race involved in all filtering approaches
    (X) Extreme profitability of spam
    ( ) Joe jobs and/or identity theft
    ( ) Technically illiterate politicians
    ( ) Extreme stupidity on the part of people who do business with spammers
    ( ) Dishonesty on the part of spammers themselves
    ( ) Bandwidth costs that are unaffected by client filtering
    ( ) Outlook

    and the following philosophical objections may also apply:

    (X) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever
    been shown practical
    ( ) Any scheme based on opt-out is unacceptable
    ( ) SMTP headers should not be the subject of legislation
    ( ) Blacklists suck
    ( ) Whitelists suck
    (X) We should be able to talk about Viagra without being censored
    ( ) Countermeasures should not involve wire fraud or credit card fraud
    ( ) Countermeasures should not involve sabotage of public networks
    (X) Countermeasures must work if phased in gradually
    ( ) Sending email should be free
    ( ) Why should we have to trust you and your servers?
    ( ) Incompatiblity with open source or open source licenses
    ( ) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem
    ( ) Temporary/one-time email addresses are cumbersome
    ( ) I don't want the government reading my email
    ( ) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough

    Furthermore, this is what I think about you:

    (X) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work.
    ( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
    ( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your
    house down!

    1. Re:That's tough, and here's why by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Great, another wizard that can't do the work.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    2. Re:That's tough, and here's why by Goaway · · Score: 1

      Did you just fill that in at random?

    3. Re:That's tough, and here's why by Lennie · · Score: 1

      "It will stop spam for two weeks and then we'll be stuck with it" That's why it would have been better to keep it at a static place so it would have been easier to filter. :-/

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
  22. Evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Would have been nice if they posted the evidence they sent to the ISPs.

    1. Re:Evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! Pics or it didn't happen!

      Wait a minute... we're talking about CP. Never mind, we don't want pics!

  23. My personal experience by rwyoder · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I use a procmail filter that sends mail from known addresses into my mailbox, and dumps everything else into a "garbage" file that I check every morning before deleting it, (on the off change that a friend or business has sent mail from a new address). This morning for the first time in *years*, the file was empty.

    1. Re:My personal experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd better check that you mail server is still running.

  24. All well and good, but... by Time+Ed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...once the folks who sell spam and porn find a hosting provider who turns a blind eye, they tend to stick with it and consolidate their operations. Paying attention to Spamhaus and the more reliable botnet trackers tells me where these operations are located, and helps me write good gateway filters for my employer, my house, and my friends. Cutting off internet access tends only to disperse the nere-do-wells rather than stop them, and I have to start over again tracking and writing new filters. In other words, I like to know where these guys hang out so I can avoid them, the same way I avoid the riff-raff in the physical city where I live.

    I think its great that someone is doing something about the problem, but I don't think it should be the ISP. We already have laws against spam and certain porn, and it should be up to the government to enforce those laws. Vigilantism is never the answer.

    The tried-and-true way works: if you have evidence, take it to the police. If the police won't do anything, take it to the press. Sure it takes a little longer, but it keeps - in this case your internet connection - safe from the Random Crusader. And the criminals may actually get arrested.

    1. Re:All well and good, but... by dubl-u · · Score: 1

      I like to know where these guys hang out so I can avoid them, the same way I avoid the riff-raff in the physical city where I live.

      That seems reasonable. Except that it only works when you're one of a small number of people who know where they are. If a lot of people knew, they would not go elsewhere. So you're basically saying, "Things are fine because I make a living from being sure it's only you other people have the problem." Feh.

      We already have laws against spam and certain porn, and it should be up to the government to enforce those laws. Vigilantism is never the answer.

      That's utterly ridiculous. The primary tool of enforcement on the Internet is the acceptable use policy, and has been for the 20 years I've been paying attention. Providers don't have to accept traffic from people behaving in ways likely to harm the network, because if they did, then other providers would stop accepting their traffic.

      Choosing to cut off miscreants isn't vigilantism, it's exercising freedom of association and free trade. For comparison, vigilantism would be, say, lynching them.

      The tried-and-true way works: if you have evidence, take it to the police.

      Ha, ha, ha, ha. That's hilarious. Could you point me to your blog where you have successfully done this with multiple spammers? Because as far as I can tell, you're talking entirely out your ass.

      In my professional capacity I've tried on a few different occasions to get the police involved in various network-driven crimes, ones much more serious than spam. Unless you can prove substantial financial damages, and unless you can sort out the jurisdictional issues for them, they just don't care. At all. Calling them up and saying that there's spam in your in-box would get you laughed at.

    2. Re:All well and good, but... by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      The tried-and-true way works: if you have evidence, take it to the police. If the police won't do anything, take it to the press. Sure it takes a little longer, but it keeps - in this case your internet connection - safe from the Random Crusader.

      Umm... I think the Washington Post is generally considered the Press. Hence when the Washington Post writes and article, it's just like taking it to the press. Exactly like, really. When the Washington Post calls the upstream ISP for comment and the up stream ISP decides to immediately server the offending party's bandwidth, That makes it the press writing a story, and a company with a legitimate right to cancel service doing so. No vigilantes or crusaders involved, caped or otherwise. Amazing what you can learn when you read the article.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    3. Re:All well and good, but... by Time+Ed · · Score: 1

      Speak of the devil, its the Random Crusader!

      Boy, when you miss a point you go for broke, don't you buddy? Apparently you live in the Real America where there are no seedy sides of town. If you're up on your metaphors, you can kind of think of that as a netblock. Paying attention such as you do, you probably have a filter list of them like I do that's taken years to develop. Its part of a layered defence you know.

      Lynching? Wow, you are out there. Vigilantism is being a self-appointed dispenser of justice (whatever that may be). But being a networking professional, you don't get involved in any of that, right? I'm sure you can share with us your experiences enforcing your networks AUP and incident responses.

      So please, oh wise sage of the internet, show me your blog that documents how the police laughed at your substantial evidence? If you approach them with your attitude, I'm not surprised they laughed at you. I've had pretty good luck with the police because I tend to not try to do other peoples jobs.

    4. Re:All well and good, but... by dubl-u · · Score: 1

      Touched a nerve, eh? I guess you never realized before that spammers taking a hit puts you at risk of having to be a productive citizen.

      The first part of your point is, to my eyes, incoherent. Feel free to try again if you think it matters.

      Vigilantism is taking the law into one's own hands. Only certain powers are reserved to the law; the rest are ours to use as we see fit, including making things more just. Choosing to refuse business from people who are actively making the world worse isn't vigilantism; it's good morals and good business sense.

      And yes, lynching is a classic vigilante action. Read up on your history a little. E.g., the San Francisco Vigilance Movement, or, more generally, vigilance committees. Canceling a contract by entirely legal means just doesn't compare with, say, tarring and feathering.

      So please, oh wise sage of the internet, show me your blog that documents how the police laughed at your substantial evidence?

      You're the one making the claim that calling the police on spammers has regularly proved effective (that's what "tried and true" means). I say it's an idiotic claim. If you can back your claim up, do it. Otherwise, pipe down and let your betters have a real conversation.

  25. Less spam? by Huwawa · · Score: 0

    Who's going to email me now?

  26. I mostly get "nigerian scam" emails by jonwil · · Score: 1

    Most of what I tend to see in my inbox (or SeaMonkey junk folder) are various variants of the "Nigerian Scam". I dont see all that much actual commerical spam for some reason.

    1. Re:I mostly get "nigerian scam" emails by Mazzie · · Score: 1

      Same here. I get about 40 or 50 "negerian" type spams, 5 to 10 spams with what looks like asian characters in the title, 4 or 5 viruses and maybe 2 or 3 misc spams for things like Viagra and warez.

      --
      Having a bookmark to Google does not make you an expert on everything.
  27. Must be back online already by Scutter · · Score: 1

    I haven't seen so much as a slight dip in spam-per-hour on any of the spam filters I manage.

    --

    "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    1. Re:Must be back online already by Lennie · · Score: 1

      Same here, but maybe they just send spam to US-destinations or something, cause I'm in the EU.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
  28. ISPs are not common carriers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ...or at least, no judgement or legislation in the US has ever held ISPs to be common carriers in the sense that phone companies are.

  29. Spam graph way down by ESCquire · · Score: 3, Informative

    For all those who don't believe that a single ISP can be responsible for this amount of spam: take a look at the munin graph from our spam scanner. When I looked at it in the morning I went "huh, did I misconfigure something on our mail server?", didn't find anything, went to Google News and submitted to /. shortly after that.

    1. Re:Spam graph way down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [My login is not working]

      Our graph looks much like yours. I spent about 30 minutes thinking it was a problem on our end. We process about 2 million messages a day. It would appear that this number will be about halved - we'll wait and see for the day to end. This is an unprecedented reduction in e-mail.

    2. Re:Spam graph way down by farbles · · Score: 2, Funny

      Our graph looks even better - incoming mail is down to a quarter what it was. All the mail servers are ordering margaritas, they haven't seen incoming spam rates this low in years.

    3. Re:Spam graph way down by suso · · Score: 1

      Its been a few days now and I just graphed the number of delivered messages to one of my mail hosts and have seen about a 50% drop in mail. I wouldn't expect it to last though.

  30. less? by revisionz · · Score: 1

    Seems like every time there is a story about a spammer getting shut down , the amount of spam that I get increases.

  31. The spam solution... by Cesaro · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The problem with spam isn't that people send out 35 billion emails... it is that SOMEONE out there is clicking on it. They just need one person out there to respond and they have made money...

    The correct solution to this spam problem is to keep these places up. Find out who it was that actually responded and either
    1) Go educate them about what they're doing
    2) Show them how to shop on their own for hair growth and penis enlargement
    3) Take away their internet connection

    If they weren't making any money, they wouldn't be doing it.

    It is like prostitution... Prostitution doesn't exist for the sake of existing. It exists because people will pay for sex. If everyone, everywhere stopped visiting prostitutes then there wouldn't be prostitutes for very much longer. They would have to get other jobs to survive.

    1. Re:The spam solution... by Nursie · · Score: 1

      "If everyone, everywhere stopped visiting prostitutes then there wouldn't be prostitutes for very much longer. They would have to get other jobs to survive."

      Good luck with that. Just like the drink and drug issues. All we need is for people to stop using them and then the problems go away. Unfortunately, humans like those activities. I don't think it's really a good analogy to spam/phishing/scams/botnets/child porn though, which are out'n'out criminal activites with victims and everything.

    2. Re:The spam solution... by maxume · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I prefer to believe that the endless line of morons are the people who think that they can make money by becoming a spammer (or that is, purchasing spam runs from the real spammers).

      Maybe there are hundreds of thousands of people who repeatedly try to purchase drugs and other crap from shady online retailers, but I don't really think so.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:The spam solution... by Cesaro · · Score: 1

      Okay...I guess for those people we need to add:

      4) Beat mercilessly with a pipe

    4. Re:The spam solution... by giafly · · Score: 1

      It is like prostitution... Prostitution doesn't exist for the sake of existing. It exists because people will pay for sex. If everyone, everywhere stopped visiting prostitutes then there wouldn't be prostitutes for very much longer. They would have to get other jobs to survive.

      Nonsense. Washington would organize a $700 billion bailout.

      --
      Reduce, reuse, cycle
  32. IAAL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I have been retained as the attorney for the Hormel Foods, LLC. I feel that you shutting down 75% of global spam violates free trade. Please cease and desist from shutting down global spam or Hormel will have no other option but to sue for punitive damages.

  33. Now how long before the void is filled by another by rodney+dill · · Score: 0

    THIS SPACE FOR RENT!

    --

    Use your head, can't you, use your head,
    You're on earth, there's no cure for that
    - S. Beckett
  34. Spamcop shows a big dip.. by foniksonik · · Score: 4, Informative

    This shows a dramatic reduction in spam as of yesterday 4PM EST.

    Will be interesting to watch it climb back up....

    --
    A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    1. Re:Spamcop shows a big dip.. by Aladrin · · Score: 4, Informative

      More importantly: http://www.spamcop.net/spamgraph.shtml?spamweek

      This shows the difference between today and the rest of the last week. The month version looks largely the same... Spikes every day until today, which is low.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:Spamcop shows a big dip.. by aardwolf64 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well... the spike is generally shortly after noon. Give it an hour or so and then compare. My guess is that it will still spike, just not as high.

    3. Re:Spamcop shows a big dip.. by KevinColyer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Over here in Brussels I just checked my spam-assassin set up.

      It looks like 200 spam emails from Midnight to 16h00 yesterday compared with 77 spam emails same period today.

      (Spam-assassin is great. It lets a few emails slip by but I can't recall any false-positives ever, and that is important for me!)

    4. Re:Spamcop shows a big dip.. by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Actually, the normal spike would have already occurred. Look at the gray lines...

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    5. Re:Spamcop shows a big dip.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 24h view has almost scrolled it away. The 1 week view shows it better.

      On a more disheartening note... "Horray, we've beaten them back to where they were this January"

  35. You can see the tremendous drop for yourself by kipin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://www.spamcop.net/spamgraph.shtml?spamweek

    Look at Tuesday's sharp drop off coinciding with the shut down.

    --
    If I can not smoke in heaven, then I shall not go. -- Mark Twain
  36. "The only way" by wytcld · · Score: 1

    The only way to go against spam is to simultaneously pursue every avenue. Yes, each solution is flawed, and can be gotten around. But the real question is, if we pursue all of them, aggressively, what will that do to spammers?

    Think of it like disease. Rarely is one disease guaranteed to kill all of a species. But if you can load dozens of serious diseases onto the species, you have a fair chance of wiping it out. Spammers are the species. Anti-spam measures are disease vectors aimed at them.

    Holding back on introducing some disease to spammers, on the logic that it alone won't solve our problem (namely, that their species lives), totally defies pragmatic logic. It's yet another instance of holding out for an ideal solution preventing us from advancing on a practical problem in real time, while we wait as members of the cargo cult of perfection.

    That checklist of reasons proposed spam measures will "fail" - funny unless you're clueless enough to believe the world works that way.

    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
    1. Re:"The only way" by Ricin · · Score: 1

      "Think of it like disease. Rarely is one disease guaranteed to kill all of a species. But if you can load dozens of serious diseases onto the species, you have a fair chance of wiping it out. Spammers are the species. Anti-spam measures are disease vectors aimed at them."

      I think that's a very good description of reality (or model if you will). Mod up.

  37. IronPort reports 66 percent drop in spam Tuesday by tsu+doh+nimh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From their press release: "In the afternoon of Tuesday 11/11, IronPort saw a drop of almost 2/3 of overall spam volume, correlating with a drop in IronPort's SenderBase queries. While we investigated what we thought might be a technical problem, a major spam network, McColo Corp., was shutdown, as reported by The Washington Post on Tuesday evening."

    --
    ...because you never know who you're dealing with.
  38. Stats? by robogun · · Score: 1

    I'm wondering what other people are seeing. I've gotten almost no spam for te last couple days, down from 300 to ~35 day.

    Although there was one set of phishing spam supposedly from ftc.gov and irs.gov, the balls on those guys.

    1. Re:Stats? by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      I generally get one spam message every 20 minutes on my gmail account, almost exactly, like clockwork (and about one every month is mis-filtered - always a spam getting into my inbox, never a real message getting sent to spam - love gmail), but today they're coming every few hours. I've gotten 6 so far, and it's already noon. That's one every 120 minutes. Hell of a difference.

  39. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  40. Re:IronPort reports 66 percent drop in spam Tuesda by multipartmixed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sounds about right.

    I spent significant time yesterday, concerned that recent firewall and DNS changes had had unintended side effects: my inbound mail volume dropped by about 70% around 16:30 eastern.

    Thank God the washingtonpost.com guys posted to netnews (almost) right away.

    --

    Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
  41. and give it to the lazy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The inherited wealth yuppies like Teddy Kennedy and Nancy D'Allessandro Pelosi are some of the laziest people known. They're definitely included in his rant.

    1. Re:and give it to the lazy. by sjf · · Score: 1

      Yuppie is a diminutive acronym for "Young, upwardly mobile". Pelosi and Kennedy are neither young, nor upwardly mobile.
      "Inherited wealth yuppie" is an oxymoron. Yuppies are by definition nouveau riche.

      And for that matter you picked the two candidates who are bi-partisanly acclaimed to be "the hardest working members" of their respective houses.

      Now, I understand that you might not agree with their politics - but they are certainly NOT lazy.

  42. OK, now law enforcement needs to go to work by Animats · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Now it's time for some federal law enforcement action. Over at McColo, there will be records that indicate who's behind the spamming and botnet operations. They'll know who paid for servers. There will be phone records showing who made support phone calls to McColo.

    McColo is in San Jose, and the San Francisco office of the FBI, which covers Silicon Valley, has a Cyber Intrusion Squad. It's their job to start digging and find out who's behind the spam operations.

    Even if the people behind the spamming tried to stay anonymous to McColo, the odds are that they slipped up somewhere.

  43. The Internet by raddan · · Score: 1

    That's not got much spam in it.

  44. Very Dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you see a man getting beat by another man, do you just stand by and wait for the police to show-up 30 minutes later to collect the body? Of course not. You and your fellow citizens act to stop the abuse.

    How certain are you that you know what is going on? If the man doing the beating is an undercover cop, and the one being beaten is fighting back, it may be that the action is perfectly legal, and your involvement can land you in jail (or worse).

    Maybe the one doing the beating is a criminal, and you use force to stop him. The victim whom you protected can then sue you, claiming that he wound up even more injured as a result of your intervention. Of course, no decent person would do such a thing....but you have no idea if the person being beaten is a decent person.

    There are other unpleasant potential outcomes as well.

    The safest thing to do is walk away and call the cops on your cell. If the victim dies before they show up, send flowers.

  45. I am glad by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 2, Interesting

    By doing this, not only does the press shut down a major thorn in internet's side, but also show that the stupid feds/cops are either on the take with this, or just too incompetent.
    Either way, it does not look good for the feds/cops

  46. First McCain, now McColo by bugeaterr · · Score: 0, Redundant

    McDonalds better watch out. These things come in threes, people.

  47. The lesson to be learned is ... by SpammersAreScum · · Score: 1

    ...get a big-name paper to make the problem public.

    I have to assume -- and the post seems to indicate -- that the upstreams were given plenty of evidence of this activity; yet they did nothing. It took the light shone on it by the paper to force them to acknowledge the problem and do something about it.

  48. I do see significant reduction by Omeganon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Down from about 6,000msgs/minute (since forever ago) to about 2,000msgs/minute as of yesterday evening. This one actually seems to have made a difference (unlike the HerbalKing group's 'shutdown).

    --
    Omeganon
  49. No wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I visited here today because I noticed a 60% reduction (estimate) in spam I received over the last day or so and wondered why.

    Thanks again Slashdot for the news and to whoever pulled the plug on those assholes.

  50. this is definetly working by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I checked out my gmail spam folder -- compared to earlier times when spam averaged from 50 to 70 messages a day, 12th November has 5 messages and 12th November only 3(!).

    Kill 'em all.

  51. No response for McColo? by SwabTheDeck · · Score: 1
    FTA:

    Officials from McColo did not respond to multiple e-mails, phone calls and instant messages left at the contact points listed on the company's Web site before the site was taken offline.

    Well, what the hell do you expect when their ISP dropped all their connections? Sheesh.

  52. Ding dong the witch is dead... by Neanderthal+Ninny · · Score: 1

    Today I saw drop in the spam I'm getting in line with what spamcop is seeing:
    http://www.spamcop.net/spamgraph.shtml?spamweek
    Normally I get a daily spike of spam around midnight that stay until 2PM then stay low until midnight and cycle starts again. This has been happening to my mail server since February 2008.
    I see how long this lull in spam will be and I hope for a long, long time. My mail server needs a break from this crap.
    I wish they would find these female donkey anal orifices and send the to some gulag or other torture place for a long, long time. Killing or dying for these people are too good for them.

  53. Re: For one thing, the *alleged* child molester by Talkischeap · · Score: 1

    "Even child molesters have the right to not be beaten to a pulp. For one thing, the *alleged* child molester might be falsely-accused and completely innocent."

    How true!

    And I believe that false accusers should definitely be beaten to a pulp!

    I stupidly married into the middle of a child custody battle, and was accused by the total asshole father several times over several years of molesting my step-son, and the "Child Protective Services" would swoop in unannounced and enter our house uninvited, and interrogate our whole family, freaking out my step-son, because he's sequestered in another room with two unknown adults being grilled about issues he had no idea about.

    And not only was the child scared and confused, the CPS Monsters forbade us by law, to tell the child what all the commotion was all about.

    I've since heard that estranged/divorced parents often pull this crap, and they should be prosecuted for it too!

    And don't get me started on those CPS assholes... it has nothing to do with "the children".

    --
    If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
  54. fear of law by epine · · Score: 1

    Why is it that technocratic hair-splitters distinguish every point of law except the difference between law and fear of law?

    Packet inspection for the purpose of resource management hardly goes against the spirit of common carrier. Does anyone really think you could pack a dozen shot guns into the back of stage coach, and not have the stage coach driver know what goods you were dealing in? Do you suppose no gold miner ever was told by his local stage coach operator, "we're not too keen on porting your two bundles of dynamite; maybe you should seek transport by other means?"

    This might have nothing to do with the actual law concerning common carrier status. I'm just pointing out that it's quite ridiculous to think any common carrier ever has been 100% ignorant of the cargo they convey. Even first class mail is sometimes signed hugs and kisses and botulism.

    Fortunately, the judges sometimes manage to make jurisprudence work, despite the text of the law being often stacked against them. Which is not to say that judges are free to interpret legislation they dislike differently than the legislation is written. But they can resort to generic precedent to put forward the view the legislation is too preposterous to enforce in 100% literalness.

    A good example of preposterous legislation would be a bill passed in the era of stagecoaches being construed to mean that AOL and their like can be put to the thumbscrews by the powerful political lobby of content owners. If that's what congress wants, they should update the law to unambiguously say as much.

    Since we don't know what a judge would actually do, we're not talking so much about law, as fear of law. Deploying deep packet inspection opens an ISP up to the claim, by deeper pockets, that they are no longer operating within the safe confines of common carrier.

    Fear of the law is the regime in effect when people reason "we would probably prevail if we could see this through, but we don't have enough money to find out".

    Fear of law boils down either to lazy government, or bad government bought and paid for. We shouldn't have to sit around trembling over how some stage-coach era legislation would be construed by a higher courts, if a deep pocket stepped forward to contest the matter.

    Really, the legislative and judiciary systems need to get together once in a while for a clean-out-the-fridge party where the dozen eggs from 1850 are finally put to rest. The way it seems to work is that old law just keeps getting pushed further to the back of the fridge, no matter how musty and inedible, it doesn't get thrown out.

    The legal profession has done a pretty good job of creating a generalized fear of opening the fridge. Somehow, despite our purported democracy, we allow them to get away with this. It makes no more sense to me than paying a banker $500m to bankrupt the powerful corporation he works for. Part of the problem is that too many among us exult in fear of law and extolling its minutia.

  55. What Brian Eats for Lunch by Gary+W.+Longsine · · Score: 1

    A poem, created by a fictional worm on Brian's notebook, when you worked with him...

    worm wating, watching
    webcam
    reporters all about
    silently
    patiently
    Brian offers share to you
    lays potato chips
    you cannot eat just one
    worm author waiting, watching
    hoping instead for interoffice tryst with hot young intern
    hoping one day to invade hustler.com or playboy.com
    worm has failed its master

    --
    If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
  56. Re: For one thing, the *alleged* child molester by theaveng · · Score: 1

    >>>the "Child Protective Services" would swoop in unannounced and enter our house uninvited, and interrogate our whole family, freaking out my step-son
    >>>

    They are not allowed to do that without a search warrant. Or probable cause. And no, "We heard a report" is not probable cause. That's just hearsay, which means they need to go see a Judge and get a proper search warrant. Yes it requires more work but they are bound by Constitutional Law same as we are.

    --
    FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
  57. Two cases... by icebrain · · Score: 1

    Castle Rock vs. Gonzales, 2005 - "the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation." (NY Times) A woman sued the police because her husband violated his restraining order, kidnapped their daughters, and killed them, but the police did not respond to repeated calls for help.

    Warren vs. District of Columbia, 1981 - "... a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." (sorry, this one was DC court of appeals, not USSC). Women sued because the police failed to respond to repeated calls for help after a man broke into their apartment and raped/assaulted/did other things to them.

    --
    The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
  58. Re: For one thing, the *alleged* child molester by Talkischeap · · Score: 1

    Oh... you actually believe that the law is in force in America?

    Hearsay seemed to work for him on three occasions.

    No judge, no search warrant.

    Move to Mendocino County, CA and find out how wrong you really are.

    You're not thinking of the children.

    --
    If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
  59. Re: For one thing, the *alleged* child molester by Talkischeap · · Score: 1

    And that past experience is nothing...

    Pity I couldn't find an attorney to document the conspiracy against my now former wife, by her attorney, her ex's attorney's and the judge.

    She had a slam dunk child custody case, and they saveged her to the point of nervous breakdown.

    It's a long story to do with a previous ex-parte hearing that the county judge screwed up on.

    They ALL should be disbarred and in prison for that, but they are free, and fucking over people to this day.

    Welcome to Mendoland where Justice is an empty word.

    --
    If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks