Slashdot Mirror


Feds Can Locate Cell Phones Without Telcos

schwit1 sends along an Ars Technica report covering the release of documents obtained under the FOIA suggesting that the Justice Department may have been evading privacy laws in their use of "triggerfish" technology. Triggerfish are cell-tower spoofing devices that induce cell phones to give up their location and other identifying information, without recourse to any cell carrier. "Courts in recent years have been raising the evidentiary bar law enforcement agents must meet in order to obtain historical cell phone records that reveal information about a target's location. But documents obtained by civil liberties groups under a Freedom of Information Act request suggest that 'triggerfish' technology can be used to pinpoint cell phones without involving cell phone providers at all. The Justice Department's electronic surveillance manual explicitly suggests that triggerfish may be used to avoid restrictions in statutes like CALEA that bar the use of pen register or trap-and-trace devices..." The article does mention that the Patriot Act contains language that should require a court order to deploy triggerfish, whereas prior to 2001 "the statutory language governing pen register or trap-and-trace orders did not appear to cover location tracking technology."

50 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. Just one question by Joe+Snipe · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yeah, patriot act, rights violations, unecessary power, etc etc...

    Where can I get one?

    --
    Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
  2. That explains it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I saw a poorly disguised cell tower in a shark suit just yesterday.

    I said it had to be a cop.

    1. Re:That explains it! by dr_dank · · Score: 2, Funny

      Candygram!

      --
      Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
  3. Re:Feds can track my cell phone... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Funny

    any time, I just flushed it down the toilet. Trigger this fish tracking...

    Dude, your septic tank is only 50 feet from the house.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  4. batteries ftw by MoFoQ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    step 1, remove batteries.

    or get a potato chip (mylar) bag and stuff it inside. (who know that the movie "Enemy of the State" would be so handy).

    1. Re:batteries ftw by Zymergy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Removing batteries only protects from the active 'pinging' replies.

      The potato-chip bag only works if the mylar plastic's aluminum layer is sufficiently thick to act as an effective Farady Cage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
      Just as RFID tags do not require batteries to give disclose their location and unique identifiers, modern cell phones also have similar functionality batteries or not...

    2. Re:batteries ftw by mobby_6kl · · Score: 5, Funny

      >step 1, remove batteries.*

      *Does not apply to iphone owners

    3. Re:batteries ftw by Anpheus · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, most cell phones have one and only one battery.

      And for low power EMF (cell phones) even very thin cages can be used, I wouldn't be surprised if most aluminum foil were more than sufficient.

    4. Re:batteries ftw by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Informative

      For your Faraday cage to be effective, it has to be very conductive. The higher the resistance, the worse it works.

      A thin layer of metallised Mylar is not going to attenuate the signal very much. Certainly not enough to prevent my receiving a call just now. I even tried sealing the end with aluminium tape (which, btw, is much better than duct tape for almost everything, especially ducts).

      If you want to make sure some piece of electronics isn't transmitting/in a position to be heard, there are only a few tools that are up to the task. If you're in a hurry: hammer. If you want to be sure: nuke from orbit.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    5. Re:batteries ftw by QuantumRiff · · Score: 4, Funny

      I wouldn't be surprised if most aluminum foil were more than sufficient.

      And to think people laughed at me when I put a pocket in my tinfoil hat!

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    6. Re:batteries ftw by Facegarden · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just as RFID tags do not require batteries to give disclose their location and unique identifiers, modern cell phones also have similar functionality batteries or not...

      Umm... no they don't? That's BS.
      -Taylor

      --
      Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
    7. Re:batteries ftw by Fastolfe · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just as RFID tags do not require batteries to give disclose their location and unique identifiers, modern cell phones also have similar functionality batteries or not...

      Do elaborate, please. RFID does, in fact, require power. It's just that that power is provided by the reader when in proximity to the tag. Are you suggesting there are RFID tags embedded into "modern cell phones"? Or something else? If you're suggesting that cell towers have the ability to blanket a region with an electric field capable of getting all of the cell phones to respond (loudly enough) to a "ping" for their location, I'm afraid I'm going to have to call BS. So what is this "functionality" that you claim allows cell phones to be identified and located without a battery?

    8. Re:batteries ftw by megamerican · · Score: 2, Funny

      And to think people laughed at me when I put a pocket in my tinfoil hat!

      Is that a tinfoil hat in your pocket, or are you just exercising your 4th amendment rights?

      --
      If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
    9. Re:batteries ftw by IorDMUX · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just as RFID tags do not require batteries to give disclose their location and unique identifiers, modern cell phones also have similar functionality batteries or not...

      I am a cell phone designer, and a phone reporting *anything*, even just a handshake, to a tower thousands of meters away takes significant power.

      It is possible that the little coin cell battery in most phones could handle the receiving of a signal, and then wake the phone up and have it reply with the main battery, (though to the best of my knowledge we don't let phones do that [and yes, I design power systems]), but if the main battery isn't there, that's a no-go.

      Passive RFID is a completely different batch of apples than active cellular communications. Passive RFID has a maximum range of around 10 meters (phased array antennas notwithstanding, but seriously...). You would need a specially designed phone to use some sort of active RFID when the battery is removed, and we don't make those.

      Now, this isn't to say that I'm not pissed at the Feds for doing something like this--perhaps even more so than the average user. I can see how they are taking advantage of perfectly innocuous and functional code and systems designed by my co-workers to agreed standards, and then using those standards to make our customers lose their privacy.

      *sheesh*

      --
      >> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down.
    10. Re:batteries ftw by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      RFIDs also have a much shorter transmission range than cell phones, this is the price they pay for being powered by the RFID reader that reads them. I seriously doubt cell phones are capable of doing anything similar, and even if so, it would be limited to about the range of an RFID reader. If someone was using it to track your cell phone, you could turn around and ask them to please kindly go away.

    11. Re:batteries ftw by Tiger4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some cell phones work INSIDE a closed elevator box. Creating a good shielded enclosure is not a casual thing to do.

      The only way to be sure, besides nuking from orbit, would be to seal up the phone, then call it. If it doesn't answer, you have *probably* got it right. But no guarantees.

      --
      Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
    12. Re:batteries ftw by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's not. Even multiple layers of aluminum foil will not block a cell phone signal. The best thing is to get a cell phone jammer, but those are often not readily available. Second is a faraday cage, but those are expensive and not really convenient. Third are EMF bags, which look like static shielding bags, but work slightly better, but realistically those don't work very well either.

      --
      Qxe4
    13. Re:batteries ftw by rtfa-troll · · Score: 2, Interesting

      designed by my co-workers to agreed standards

      most of those standards were specifically weakened for "the Feds" requirements (basically that meant USA & France over the interests of Germany if I remember right). It's a) clear that it's not really the cell phone industry's fault since they wouldn't get approval otherwise b) clear that "everybody" in some sense knew about this otherwise the weakening wouldn't have been done.

      A very specific change made in the UMTS standard from GSM is to require that the phone verifies the network. Without that it's always been possible to intercept. The change is pretty useless at present, since all UMTS phones include a GSM radio and very few can be forced into 3G mode.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    14. Re:batteries ftw by penguinchris · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just so you know, here in Southern California, where the FasTrak system the parent mentions is, most toll roads that I'm aware of do not take cash. You must have the FasTrak, or presumably they will photograph your license plate and you will pay a hefty fine.

      Here it's different than most places, of course; there are usually alternate routes you can take just as easily that don't have a toll. It'll just take you a little longer; the main difference being that the free route will have our notoriously heavy traffic or be jammed all the time, while the toll road you'll presumably fly through.

      They dynamically adjust the toll depending on traffic level, to make sure the toll road is always operating at or below reasonable capacity. There are electronic signs at various points before the exits to these roads that tell you the current toll so you can decide to go that way or not. I've seen it go up to over $15 on the one near my house!

      When I lived in New York (I just moved out here a few months ago) I had the EzPass for the NY Thruway, which was a little more nefarious. To get to any other city in New York in a reasonable manner, you have to use the Thruway, which is a toll road. I'm sure a whole lot more people in New York have EzPass than people in California have FasTrak. Of course, there are a lot more toll bridges and stuff in New York, which the EzPass also works on, which makes it, again, even more useful/essential than FasTrak since there aren't a whole lot of toll bridges around here (I can't think of a single one off the top of my head, while I regularly used them back in Buffalo.)

  5. With the more advanced phones.... by Bomarc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can a program be written to notify if it's information is being 'given' out? Anyway, this is one more reason to NOT get one (cell phone). I was finally going to break down, and get one. With this report, it one more reason to just say no.

    1. Re:With the more advanced phones.... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Anyway, this is one more reason to NOT get one (cell phone). I was finally going to break down, and get one. With this report, it one more reason to just say no.

      Well, if you're planning on the overthrow of Western Civilization or other misdemeanors, good idea.

      If you just want to talk to people, perhaps this isn't such a problem.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:With the more advanced phones.... by bhtooefr · · Score: 4, Informative

      The thing is, you don't have control over the GSM/CDMA radio - it's controlled by a completely separate processor, and get access to the microphone, speakers, and a serial link to the main processor, so that the processor powering the phone's OS doesn't cause spurious radio transmissions.

      Some data goes back and forth, yes, but you probably won't be able to tell when it's doing this versus a legit cell tower connection...

    3. Re:With the more advanced phones.... by pithen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure, what is the problem with gradually eroding civil liberties and ever increasing surveillance of the populace. Why don't we just throw the Constitution right in the garbage while we're at it?

      All in all, its almost as much a problem as this "If you've got nothing to hide, what are you worried about?" attitude that we're seeing more and more.

    4. Re:With the more advanced phones.... by Facegarden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Can a program be written to notify if it's information is being 'given' out? Anyway, this is one more reason to NOT get one (cell phone). I was finally going to break down, and get one. With this report, it one more reason to just say no.

      What? No, this is a reason not to vote for people that don't understand basic civil rights. The cell phones are not the problem. Do you also not have any bank accounts, a car, any credit/bank cards, or any taxable income? Because if someone wants to track you, there are plenty of ways.

      You seriously don't own a cell phone? On purpose? I mean, i know some people can't afford them, but you're telling me that you can afford one (i'm assuming that part) but you choose not to buy one because... what? Because the government could be tracking you?

      I know that tracking people against their will is absolutely NOT okay, and we need to vote for people who will help put a stop to things like that, but realistically, do you ACTUALLY think someone has any reason to track you? I have a huge respect for civil rights and i very much think we should vote for people who do too, and we need to fix all of the laws that trample over these rights that have been passed lately, but when it comes down to it, for day to day stuff i'm not worried. Realistically, i can ditch my phone and buy a handful of prepaid phones, or stop using them at all, when i decide to overthrow the government. Till then, day to day, i absolutely don't think it's a reason to avoid owning a phone... what the hell do you do that you think is so important?
      -Taylor

      --
      Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
    5. Re:With the more advanced phones.... by PPH · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Who needs a program? Just set your GSM phone near an FM radio. Every time the damned thing checks in with the tower, the radio starts buzzing.

      There's an outfit that makes a little LED gadget that flashes whan your cell phone goes active, receiving a call, etc. These also flash a little when the phone contacts a tower.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  6. this is news? by DM9290 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The sentence "Courts in recent years have been raising the evidentiary bar law enforcement agents must meet in order to obtain historical cell phone records that reveal information about a target's location. But documents obtained by civil liberties groups under a Freedom of Information Act request suggest that 'triggerfish' technology can be used to pinpoint cell phones without involving cell phone providers at all. " is weasily.

    How does triggerfish lower the evidentiary bar required to authorize law enforcement to use special sensing technology to search for a cell phone?

    --
    No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
    1. Re:this is news? by digitalchinky · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The theory, in Australia at least, is this: (With some background info)

      I first heard about these kinds of devices in 1997. (From a tin foil hat kind of person) At the time they were said to be the size of a regular briefcase and were used largely in airports or places where interesting people might be seen nearby. The reason for their use was simply to ID a specific handset of interest, tie it to an individual, then do the actual grunt work via all the little black (beige really) boxes installed at various exchanges around the country.

      So how does this legally work? Backing up a few years earlier than this, a law was enacted (somewhere around 1994/95) that allowed the "government" to do 'domestic non communications signals' - in human speak this amounted to a free for all on in country transmissions that don't convey 'communications' intended to be understood or received by a person, or transmissions that are of a one way nature - things like beacons, RADAR, navigational aids, and, conveniently enough, your regular old mark 1 spoofed hand held cell tower. The astute reader will correctly surmise the wide ranging scope of such a law. One can easily envision situations where traffic analysis is of infinitely more value than any intelligible message content.

      My guess is that similar legal word plays exist in the US.

    2. Re:this is news? by number11 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      but this is a mobile, non-documented technology, so the information gathered would be hearsay, not enough to be evidence and not enough for a real warrant.

      You're kidding, right? All they need to get a warrant is to tell the judge that the request is "based on information and belief" or due to "a reliable informant". The judge is unlikely to ask hard questions, even less likely to go back and check afterward to see if what they were told was true, and unheard of for there to be any consequences (to the police) for fudging the truth in asking for the warrant.

      Maybe it can't be used as evidence in a court of law, but they can use it to find other evidence that is admissible.

  7. This Was In HBO's The Wire by darkmeridian · · Score: 3, Interesting

    McNulty and Co. used "trigger fish" to collect info after the Barksdales moved to disposable cell phones. The devices would collect info without the use of pen registers and obviated the need for a lot of paperwork such as search warrants.

    But this is like going through the trash. It's clearly an end-run against privacy laws, but I don't see where the deviousness is. If you carry a cellphone around that emits radio waves, you probably don't have a great expectation of privacy if you leave it on all the time. And it's not like the triggerfish are recording the conversation.

    --
    A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    1. Re:This Was In HBO's The Wire by garett_spencley · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "If you carry a cellphone around that emits radio waves, you probably don't have a great expectation of privacy if you leave it on all the time. And it's not like the triggerfish are recording the conversation."

      Maybe I'm underestimating the average individual, but I'm not so sure that the "normal" person would see it that way.

      Anecdote: I'm taking a driver's ed course and the instructor was casually asking where everyone goes to school / does for a living. I told her that I'm in online advertising and she said "ah so you're the guy to ask about computer problems".

      Most people don't have a clue when it involves electronics or radio waves. When I tell people that they can be located via their cellphone, even when they're not using it (and some cases when it's turned off), they don't believe me.

    2. Re:This Was In HBO's The Wire by Red+Flayer · · Score: 5, Funny

      This isn't like going through the trash at all. Besides, where are your manners? This is Slashdot, and the decision to opt for a trash analogy instead of a car analogy is just plain rude.

      This is like you're driving down the highway, listening to tunes and shit, and some dude on the side of the highway is using x-ray vision, man, X-RAY VISION, to look at the driver's license in your wallet to see who you are...

      Except he's got a bunch of machines to do it for him, and get this -- with three machines, he can not only see who you are, but he can also see exactly *WHERE* you are, dude. He's all violating Heisenberger's Uncertainty Principle or something... and the worst part is, he can ALSO tell if you're alive or dead *before* he gets a warrant, so he's violating the fundamental laws of physics not once, but twice.

      Put that in your trashcan.

      Besides... The Wire? As a source of tech knowledge by a Slashdot reader? What is the world coming to?

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    3. Re:This Was In HBO's The Wire by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But this is like going through the trash. It's clearly an end-run against privacy laws, but I don't see where the deviousness is. If you carry a cellphone around that emits radio waves, you probably don't have a great expectation of privacy if you leave it on all the time.

      If it is illegal to receive broadcast signals like satellite television, then logically this sort of interception should be illegal too.

      And it's not like the triggerfish are recording the conversation.

      No, they are going one step further. Recording the conversation would be simply passive - in this case they are gaining unauthorized access to a computer (the one in the phone).

      A similar goose and gander comparison comes to mind - if it is illegal for joe blow to gain unauthorized access to a computer, then it should be illegal for the government to gain unauthorized access to a computer.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:This Was In HBO's The Wire by darkmeridian · · Score: 2, Funny

      The show actually used the term "trigger fish" when referring to the devices. Apparently, they were sitting in a storage room somewhere, a part of a federal grant that none of the other police officers had the sophistication to use. The Baltimore PD wanted to borrow a trigger fish from the FBI when the FBI agent said, you have one! We gave it to you.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
  8. Patriot act by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 5, Funny

    The article must be in error. Bush passed the patriot act to allow this to happen without warrants, not to impose the need for warrants, right?

  9. Triggerfish...? by AdamTrace · · Score: 3, Funny

    I wonder why they didn't use the Hawaiian name, "humuhumu-nukunuku-a-pua'a"...

    *shrug*

    1. Re:Triggerfish...? by cailith1970 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Interestingly enough, that's the same interference sound that comes through my radio in the car when my phone rings... :)

      --
      I intend to live forever, or die trying. - Groucho Marx
  10. Re:I wonder if this is why my cell phone has by davidsyes · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think it's because they want the public to THINK the courts are working, and that the government spies are having to bust their asses to do their jobs. But, they probably are 5 steps ahead, but then get outed. I wonder if anyone else is outing that Predator/drone/RPV that (almost) nightly buzzes/hovers over Glen Park BART Station with such a loud buz that it is annoying as hell. The police i talked to say they know nothing of it. They recommend I write the police chief/commissioner/city mayor.

    Whatever nutcase dreamed up the drone surveillance (probably watching gangsters from LA/OC, or Salvadorian or Nicaraguan or Chilean/whomever cartel gangsters in the area, or just for gunshot triangulation, who knows?) seems to have thought that placing it OVER the GP BART building or near the freeway would mask it. But, the fucker is LOUD, and i can hear it adjusting power when coping with the local temperature and wind changes. The noise sweeps up the hill, unmolested by the thousands of homes. It may be quiet directly beneath it, but it's not at all quiet along the ridges and up the hill. They should buy a quieter model, or lose their permit to fly. Fortunately i don't have a brown-out gun, or i'd terminate it (without bragging, of course, lest i face jail/prison), not because of spying, but because that fucker makes it hard to sleep without the use of earplugs from ~~ 1030PM to ~ 0230...

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  11. Re:Privacy is an antiquated notion. by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Privacy is not explicitly spelled out, though. I mean, there are the ninth and tenth amendments, but they're exactly the kind of thing you'd expect politicians to ignore due to their unambiguous, but unspecific language (and ironically, one of the more prominent "pro-privacy" rulings pretty much ignored the tenth amendment). Whittling at the weapons first, that's what's unexpected.

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  12. Why are cell phones so lame? by joekrahn · · Score: 2, Funny

    Apparently, cell phones are designed to transmit everything they know: phone numbers, call logs, etc. Why are cell phones designed to be so insecure?

    Surely there are cell phones that are not so lame, unless the government is requiring anonymous access for snooping purposes.

    1. Re:Why are cell phones so lame? by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Why are cell phones designed to be so insecure?

      For the same reason bank accounts, Web sites, etc. are. Not more than one user in a million cares.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  13. Re:Can it be rescinded by Bulk Executive Order 1? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Barack will not change America in the way you're hoping.

  14. Re:Can it be rescinded by Bulk Executive Order 1? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 4, Funny

    You have no idea as to what I'm hoping, Comrade.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  15. Re:Feds can track my cell phone... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    rural != modern

    Well, you're comparing traits on multiple axis, but to your point, individualistic remote living requires a higher level of technology than living in cities does. We probably went hunter/gatherer-tribes -> cities -> 'modern' agriculture -> rural individuals, though there's debate about which came first, cities or agriculture. n.b. sanitary sewers are rather new in the history of cities.

    More concretely, you'd have a hard time arguing with the farmer running giant gps-guided irrigation robots or my friend who has linux boxes with webcams as shepherds, that rural != modern, but really any rural home is going to be packed full of technology to make life more enjoyable.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  16. Get an IMSI Catcher from Rohde and Schwarz by gd23ka · · Score: 5, Interesting

    http://www2.rohde-schwarz.com/en/products/radiomonitoring/product_categories/signal_intelligence/overview/
    Click on the GC128 datasheet. They have a firmware for that device that turns it into an IMSI Catcher. There is
    also a portable suitcase version of the device.

    IMSI Catchers basically work by impersonating the cell tower of the network the subscriber is on, forcing his
    handset to it by protocol and higher signal strength and then (this is important) flipping whatever calls are
    made into non-encrypted mode. Some phones have a debug mode that will show you whether encryption is activated
    or not so if you're making a call and encryption is suddenly off - you know what to do at least I hope.

    Basically an IMSI catcher is a still a device that is used on the levels of industrial espionage or espionage
    by foreign services that don't have access to the normal national monitoring - which incidentally _all_ (cell)
    phone networks are hooked into. The claim US intelligence services are not plugged into their telcos and have to
    go outside for surveillance by using a device like this is what it is: Disinfo.

    1. Re:Get an IMSI Catcher from Rohde and Schwarz by citizenr · · Score: 2, Informative

      Something tells me they dont sell it in corner shops :) more like "agencies only" equipment just like Cell jammers in Poland.
      But no need for that, we are talking about localisation, not intercepting calls http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/05/18/1838222&from=rss
      http://www.pathintelligence.com/website-prodnserv.htm
      you can buy boxes from that company and build your own Triggerfish system (using cab fleet for example to cover whole city)

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
  17. Billing and e911 by pavon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As far as I know, phones don't transmit call logs. But the reason they transmit it's serial number and phone number and GSM IDs, is because they need to have a unique identifier to hand off call from one cell tower to another, and that ID must be traceable to an account in order to bill it properly. So you can't really opt out of this even if you controlled the hardware, although I suppose you might be able to filter the towers that the phone will talk to.

    The rest of the privacy invading features are intended to provided a more accurate triangulation for use with the e911 system. This could be evaded except it's against the law to manufacture/distribute a phone without e911 support.

  18. Re:Feds can track my cell phone... by Fuzzums · · Score: 2

    I wonder how a sceptic tank works.

    --
    Privacy is terrorism.
  19. IMSI-Catcher by guruz · · Score: 2, Informative

    By the way, since ages there is also a technique/device called IMSI-Catcher. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI-catcher

  20. Re:What does it take with these people? by jc42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What part of "surveillance of American citizens without judicial oversight is illegal" do they not understand?

    I'd guess that they probably do understand that, where by "they" we presumably mean the top guys in the current US administration. But in their own words, such laws are "quaint" and "irrelevant".

    To put it in some sort of perspective, such laws have historically only been relevant when the government actually wants to take you to court, since illegally collected evidence is usually not accepted by the courts. But if they're interested in you for reasons other than getting you convicted and sent to jail (or exported or executed), then the legality of their actions really isn't a very interesting point. After all, you can't realistically expect to file suit against the surveillance agencies and win anything. If a violation of the law can't end up in court, how is the law relevant to anything?

    Yeah, we can post messages complaining about illegal government activities here and in other blogs. Lotta good that does.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  21. Re:Feds can track my cell phone... by MarkGriz · · Score: 2, Funny

    I wonder how a sceptic tank works.

    Isn't a sceptic tank the opposite of a think tank?

    --
    Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.