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Anathem

Max Tardiveau writes "I just finished reading Neal Stephenson's latest novel, Anathem. I was awaiting it with some anticipation because I absolutely loved Stephenson's best-known novels: Snow Crash, The Diamond Age, and Cryptonomicon. One of Stephenson's non-fiction pieces, called In the beginning was the command line, simply wowed me when I read it. The man can write. A few years ago, I got really excited when I heard that he was writing a whole cycle of novels (the Baroque cycle). But I read the first book of the cycle — Quicksilver — and I was somewhat disappointed, so I skipped the rest of the cycle. I realize that many people enjoyed these novels, but I was hoping that Stephenson would get back his old style and inspiration. So, when Anathem was announced, I was full of anticipation — was this going to be the one? Would he find his mark again?" Keep reading for Max's impressions of Anathem Anathem author Neal Stephenson pages 935 publisher HarperCollins rating 6 reviewer Max Tardiveau ISBN 9780061474095 summary Action and philosophical exploration in an Earth-like future The first impression of this book is its heft---at 935 pages in the hardback edition, you'll need strong arms, or a good support, just to read the thing. But otherwise, this is a sharply printed, well-bound book. The official retail price is $30, but you can find it for around $24, less if you buy it used.

Anathem is set on a fictional planet called Arbre, which is very similar to Earth, in a fairly distant future. Much has happened, as we discover during the course of the story. World wars, revolutions, climate change, etc... During all these tribulations, religious orders have provided a certain amount of continuity, and have pursued theoretical scientific research. They still live like monks and nuns, even though there are occasional glimpses of highly advanced technology (materials, genetics, etc...).

In a monastery, ruled by an ancient Discipline, our hero is a young monk who is inquisitive, smart but not brilliant, and brave but not foolhardy. We see most of the action through his eyes.

Not much happens in the first 100 pages or so, which can be a bit trying, but soon we learn that mysterious events are in progress, and the narrative picks up the pace after that. I can't say much more without spoilers.

As usual with Stephenson, there are many neat ideas, and a few mind-twisters. The writing is usually clear, the action can be stimulating, the characters can be engaging. And yet...

It's not that Anathem isn't interesting. It's just that it feels ... self-indulgent. It's a 935-page novel that should be 600 pages or less. Perhaps Stephenson's fame and success make it difficult for editors to stand up to him. That would be his loss (and ours). A good editing job would have turned a good novel into one that is worthy of him.

Why do I say that?

First, the story is replete with made-up words that add very little to the story, the atmosphere, the narration, or anything at all. They just stand in the way. I'm not opposed to a judicious use of this device, but here it feels gratuitous and pointless and, yes, at times irritating.

I know it's not supposed to be Earth, but at least half of this gobbledygook could have been skipped without any detrimental effect. I'm afraid I have to invoke Munroe's Law, which states: "The probability of a book being good is inversely proportional to the number of made-up words it contains". In fact, XKCD had a strip about this specifically aimed at Anathem.

There is a lot of dialog and action that adds little or nothing to the narrative. One feels, at times, like Stephenson is filling time. This is where a good editor should step in and tighten things up. One senses that the entire book was published as delivered by the author, with no critical paring, no condensing. I'm sure I'm wrong about that, but the feeling is there nonetheless.

We meet a very large cast of characters, many of whom seem unnecessary. Names appear and disappear, and the reader is left to ponder why they were introduced at all. Is there some ulterior motive? Will they have some sort of meaning later in the book? But alas, most don't, and we feel like we have invested time and emotion in vain.

There are also a lot of uncompleted story lines and plot holes. Perhaps the novel is simply too ambitious, and tries to broach too many topics. Time and time again, Stephenson introduces an interesting concept, or an intriguing subplot, only to drop it without any follow-up. This is most unsatisfying.

This is a surprise, because I am under the impression that Stephenson's audience is in large part made of people like me — somewhat geeky, interested in science, and therefore prone to paying close attention to details of the story. In this respect, this book simply fails. The reader is left with so many open questions, so many unfinished lines of inquiry, that the whole thing feels unfinished, even rushed. The ending is bland and appallingly predictable, worthy of a Bruce Willis action movie--harsh words, I know, but I am not using them lightly.

I was expecting more intellectual stimulation, a significantly faster pace, and more storytelling rigor from Stephenson, and I have to admit to being disappointed. The book is certainly not without redeeming qualities, I was just expecting quite a bit more.

I would not recommend this book as an introduction to Stephenson. If you're a real fan, you'll probably read it no matter what, but otherwise you can safely skip it. If you've never read anything by Stephenson, then you owe it to yourself to read the three novels I mentioned at the beginning of this article. They are truly excellent. Anathem, sadly, is not cut of the same cloth.

You can purchase Anathem from amazon.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

56 of 356 comments (clear)

  1. Halfway through the book, and ... by Lord+Grey · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... I agree with Max's review. I'm almost halfway through Anathem and it's simply not compelling at this point. The made-up words that littered the first part of the story were amazingly painful to slog through, at least in the beginning. I either don't notice them so much now or their usage is toned down a little. They're still irritating, though.

    While I love Stephenson's earlier works, his later works are disappointing to me. If you could somehow plot a trend of his writing style, beginning with something like Snow Crash and continuing until the present, you'd find Anathem right on that trend line. If you've been reading his stuff all along, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Anathem is like the Baroque cycle, but more so.

    --
    // Beyond Here Lie Dragons
    1. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by Jaysyn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I thought the Baroque Cycle was brilliant & showed how much the author's writing had matured between it & Snow Crash.

      I'm hoping I get this for Christmas & it isn't a disappointment.

      @ the Reviewer. Dune had a metric crapload of made up words too.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    2. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by Jaysyn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you like sci-fi, you owe it to yourself to read The Diamond Age.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    3. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by immcintosh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, to each his own. I found the first third perhaps a little slow going, but by the end I really just couldn't put it down. Once the plot proper starts going on full steam I found it very compelling.

    4. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You and the reviewer are pretty dense. Most of the words are derived from English, Greek, or Latin, with many of them being jokes and puns. The whole point is to denote a sense of both otherness and familiarity, which is a central theme of the book.

      The characters aren't strictly human, they live isolated from their own kind (in increments of one, ten, a hundred, or a thousand years), they don't usually speak the same language as the majority of their world's population. Are you going to envision them with the appropriate sense of alienness if they keep calling each other brother and sister?

      And for God's sake, who doesn't love the word 'speelycaptor'?

    5. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thirded. The books not an easy read, I'll give them that, but when did that become a requirement of sci-fi?

      I've read it several times now, and the social commentary is so multi-layered I keep getting more out of it, and the philosophy is interesting enough that I keep turning it over and over in my head.

      I'm glad he didn't feel the need to release a mass-market, dumbed-down action piece. Look at The Diamond Age, by far his most award winning novel: he wasn't afraid to throw down the intellectual beat down there either, and it made for a better product.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    6. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by Narpak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Forthed I guess.

      Found Anathem to be one of his best and deepest books so far. While I thoroughly enjoy Snow Crash and Diamond Age; Anathem, and the Baroque Cycle, is simply another type of fiction entirely. More like the Baroque Cycle,a series of novels (in his own words), than his other works.

      Where perhaps his earlier works where a bit more action oriented; Snow Crash being a good example of a story mainly oriented towards action. Interface and Diamond Age go slightly deeper, but in Cryptonomicon things changes dramatically. At that point the action begins to take a back seat to exploration of intellectual ideas and concepts (cryptography, computer science, astronomy, philosophy and others).

      Anathem becomes, in parts, almost like a primer for contemplation of time and long term thinking; interwoven with a story that I personally found quite interesting and enjoyable. Neal Stephenson knows how to write well, explain things in an understandable fashion, and craft believable characters; even those in minor roles.

      Having read Anathem once and looking back upon the story, and sometimes the way it was written, and keeping the ideas and concepts introduced in the book in mind; things become clearer that were perhaps a bit obfuscated before.

      All in all a very good read, but perhaps not for everyone.

    7. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by Redfeather · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Touche! As a writer, I find it hard to avoid making up vocabulary. Especially being a student of etymology, some words are so rooted in the cultures and it's easy to forget that no one other than yourself -cares- if their history is removed because you're not writing about earth.

      Similarly, it's simple enough to find analogous cultures here on earth and mutate their languages to suit. A decidedly oriental-type culture may include permutated Mandarin or Canton words, whereas an exceptionally Norse culture may end up looking like something out of Tolkien. It's a very useful trick that not enough ficton writers use.

      Unfortunately, long windedness is also a common mistake in writers, whether you're new to the business or experienced. Having competed in NaNoWriMo this year for the first time, I can certainly appreciate the need to meet certain benchmarks for word-count, but if it's fluff, there's no way around it; it's still fluff. I've known writers to intentionally blast the backs out of their typewriters just to get to the next 10k mark in their word count, because of payment arrangements with publishers as well. It's uncommon, but perhaps good ol' Neal is labouring under his paycheck a bit too much.

      --
      Those things you're doing with that stuff you just bought? That's not what it's for! -
    8. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by farrellj · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I found the first quarter of the book a little slow...but after that, I couldn't read it fast enough to keep up. I obsessed about the book and ended up getting the audio book as well so I could listen to it in the car to and from work!

      It is an epic book, and it is a memetic masterpiece, since many people are big fans of this book have slowly been infiltrating it's words into the english language...

      Don't overlook the Anathem WIKI at http://anathem.wikia.com/wiki/Anathem_Wiki

      And if you like the music, you can get it via Neal's site: http://www.nealstephenson.com/anathem/music.htm

      ttyl
                Farrell

      --
      CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
    9. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Having not read Anthem yet, I can't say whether this is the case or no. Can you?

      Having read Anathem, I can say that the invented words are necessary. To explain why, unfortunately, would be a spoiler.

    10. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by Stormwatch · · Score: 5, Funny

      Having not read Anthem yet

      Here it is. It's pretty good, and an easy read. Lacks the depth of Rand's later works, but the core values, the philosophical underpinnings, are all there.

    11. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by Random+BedHead+Ed · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you like sci-fi, you owe it to yourself to read The Diamond Age.

      As a coincidence I finished The Diamond Age this morning. I also highly recommend it. It has some slow bits in which I wondered where the story was going, but all of them had redeeming purposes and I was not disappointed for long.

      However I'm a bit disappointed by this review of Anathem because it sounds suspiciously like I'd agree with it. I base this assertion largely on this passage:

      I am under the impression that Stephenson's audience is in large part made of people like me - somewhat geeky, interested in science, and therefore prone to paying close attention to details of the story. In this respect, this book simply fails. The reader is left with so many open questions, so many unfinished lines of inquiry, that the whole thing feels unfinished, even rushed.

      I'm exactly that sort of reader. I pay close attention to details and am interested in seeing them be developed. Snow Crash and The Diamond Age definitely reward the reader for paying attention. The dead ends the reviewer describes would ruin such a book for me.

      Also, at least a couple people above mention that the first 100 pages are a waste. That reminds me very much of Snow Crash, the beginning of which made me wonder why I'd spent my hard-earned cash on a book about a pizza delivery man in the future and his unlikely friendship with a girl who skates behind cars; it took some time before I understood why these two characters are worth following, and why the world they live in is worthy of having a novel set in it. The Diamond Age, too, is a little slow to start and at times seems to be aimless (one of the first characters to be introduced dies almost immediately). While I haven't read this new book, it strikes me from the Anathem reviews and from the two books I've read that Stephenson invests much effort in showing you around his worlds after his books start, rather than thrusting you into some meaningful action, and I get the impression that while he occasionally manages to make this work, sometimes he doesn't, and that Anathem is in the latter category. Rather a shame, because the man is gifted.

    12. Re:Halfway through the book, and ... by Minix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mod this guy up, and the sibling post. It's a fascinating book.

      If you've read half the book and haven't got that the monastic types are using the remnants of a dead language, dating from the time of a long-past world empire which spawned a religion, I doubt you'll understand how it goes from there, Fra (I mean, Bro.)

      Science Fiction is a class of speculative fiction, it's often more about the times in which its written than the times and places in which it is set. Its virtue is that it allows us to see our own time and place in a new light.

      I think this book is talking about what might have happened if religion and rationality had split in a different way in our own world.

      Honestly, what do they teach you kids these days?

      --
      "There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order." Ed Howdershelt
  2. 2nd derivative of plot by Normal_Deviate · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anathem is the classic slow starter. I almost gave up at first, but by the halfway mark it was on my all-time short list. Its great strength is the theme of intellectual elitism. Not the modern "liberal condescension" interpretation of that term, but rather the deeper idea that those willing to do what it takes to perceive reality are both rare and precious. If the book has a flaw, it is in promulgating the idea that intellectual elites are to be found in academic cloisters.

    1. Re:2nd derivative of plot by gardyloo · · Score: 4, Funny

      If the book has a flaw, it is in promulgating the idea that intellectual elites are to be found in academic cloisters.

      OK, now you're just making up words, you elit... eli... overeduma... bastard. :)

    2. Re:2nd derivative of plot by Redfeather · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wonder if anyone's put together a Fame-to-Wordcount algorithm? When I started writing, I could get through about two pages a day. Now, if I'm on my game, I can easily write 10k in a night and had my record set at nearly 20k - which amounts to about 15-25 pages.

      I imagine should I ever get published and suddenly have ALL my time free, I may begin to aim for the Rober J Sawyer law of 8 pages per day. However, when you're really in the groove, it's easy to get overextended. If your deadlines are roughly one book per year, and success means more liesure time in which to produce, the deadline and the volume produced cease to match up pretty swiftly. Editting your own work is all well and good, but I hate cutting scenes I'm proud of, and the better I get, the more I've got to be proud of. Publishers have their own work to decide whether what excites me realy belongs in mass market.

      --
      Those things you're doing with that stuff you just bought? That's not what it's for! -
    3. Re:2nd derivative of plot by GogglesPisano · · Score: 2, Informative

      Mind you, promulgating is a perfectly cromulent word.

  3. *Possible Spoiler* An Actual Ending!! by ahoehn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Unlike every other Stephenson novel - this one has a real conclusion!

    While I'm a big lover of Stephenson's work, I've felt like in his other novels the end is just hacked off without literary justification. This time, Stephenson provides us with a satisfying conclusion. It sort of blew my mind.

    As to the rest of the novel, I enjoyed it overall. But I felt like Stephenson did fall prey to the trap of letting his characters discusses theoretics overmuch at the expense of some narrative.

    Also, I'm not sure that forcing readers to learn so much invented vocabulary for the sake of his imaginary world was entirely worth it. Sure, there might not be a word in the English language that perfectly encapsulates the idea he was trying to communicate, but most writers are forced to overcome this obstacle every day, and do so without making up new words. It added a layer of complication to Anathem that was unnecessarily daunting.

    So, read the book if you're already into Stephenson, you'll probably love it. But - as the review said - you'd be better off falling in love with the man's writing somewhere else.

    --
    Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
    1. Re:*Possible Spoiler* An Actual Ending!! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Zodiac is worth reading as well.

    2. Re:*Possible Spoiler* An Actual Ending!! by sootman · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sure, there might not be a word in the English language that perfectly encapsulates the idea he was trying to communicate, but most writers are forced to overcome this obstacle every day, and do so without making up new words.

      Shit, at this point I'm just happy he's not making up letters.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  4. Very disappointing review. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I, too, was hoping for something out of Stephenson more like his older books. I loved Snow Crash, and Diamond Age. I felt Cryptonomicon to be somewhat self-indulgent of the the author in the sense mentioned by the reviewer.

    Yes, some of Stephenson's books were, IMHO, outstanding. Snow Crash was great. I even thought his first novel, "The Big U", was hilarious (apparently unlike many others... it did not sell well or get good reviews).

    After reading this, I doubt very much that I will bother reading Anathem.

    But after Cryptonomicon, I was reluctant to dive into the Baroque Cycle books. Too much prose, for too little effect. Stephenson would do well to return to the more terse writing of his earlier years.

    1. Re:Very disappointing review. by btempleton · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While you may or may not want to read Anathem, don't decide not to based on this review, which misses the mark about what's good and bad in the book.

      --
      Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
  5. you'll need strong arms... by Ender+Wiggin+77 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    or an eBook reader. I picked up the Sony PRS-505 last month and read several books using it. Love it. I can carry a metric ton of books in one hand. Anathem may be next.

  6. Re:The question is... by argent · · Score: 2, Interesting

    His early books were pretty good, but I some time while he was writing Cryptonomicon he became a "fan" of his subject matter instead of a student of it. Heinlein had the same problem... after Stranger in a Strange Land his books turned into well-written fan fiction.

  7. Can you have read the same book? by mofag · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To me its clearly Stephenson's best book and the only one he has written that hasn't fallen apart towards the end. His prose is so much more mature in this. Its such a pleasure to read a book which expects so much of its readers. His humour in the book plays across an enormous range of questions and schisms in philosophy, language an physics and I found myself giggling whilst amazed at his audacity in expecting so much from his audience. Yes it is self-indulgent but only so much as it indulges his target audience. If you found it boring and you didn't find it extremely funny throughout then I guess he was expecting a little too much of you or you were under-estimating him. Seriously, this book puts the rest of his work to shame. Please try re-reading it. Everything else he has written is practice in order to get it right for Anathem.

    Nick

    1. Re:Can you have read the same book? by orin · · Score: 3, Funny

      I cannot help but agree with your assessment of the book. One doesn't have to go far to guess which side of the concent walls the reviewer would live on. Go back to watching your Die Hard speelies reviewer!

    2. Re:Can you have read the same book? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I definitely think his style is maturing, and I completely agree with the statement about the ending. Either he ended it in media res or it wound down in a particularly boring fashion...Neither is fully satisfying.

      Anathem built slowly, something I think was required for the vast amount of world building he had to pull off, and then he took all that he'd built and blitzed it for 400 pages of crazy.

      It's the first real piece of old-school intellectual sci-fi I've read in a while that didn't feel shallow or contrived. Hats off, I'd love to see more of the same.

      //Loved Snow Crash, Diamond Age, Cryptonomicon

      //Liked Big U and Zodiac

      //May one day finish the Baroque Cycle.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    3. Re:Can you have read the same book? by energylad · · Score: 2, Informative

      What a disappointing review.

      Most of the facts stated by the review's author are opinions -- and not especially well-formed opinions. Some comments are purposefully misleading (see "Munroe's Law").

      One of the best things about Anathem is how absolutely accurately the novel pegs the myriad ways in which very intelligent people interact with other very intelligent people -- largely by demanding fact over opinion and by recognizing when something is reasonable over when something is desirable. The author of this review is very enthusiastic about his position, but he is incorrect in most of his statements.

      He entirely neglects to mention -- at the risk of spoiling the story, I'm sure, though after warning away most possible readers it's a disingenuous concern -- that Anathem builds to the most fantastically bad-ass set of scenes and set pieces to grace traditional science-fiction in a very, very long time. And the more deeply you've grasped the conceptual framework that the author laid before you, the more its conclusion will reverberate in your brain for some time to come.

      Anathem is like a clockwork of fantastical proportions; if all you want to do is check the time as you pass, you're set. Breeze on through and it'll be the quickest 900+ pages you've ever read. But if want to follow the inner workings all the way through then there's an extremely rewarding experience in front of you. I strongly recommend that smart people read this novel.

  8. The reviewer is missing the point of the book by xorowo · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I am not going to defend the novel as a whole. While I found it a compelling introduction to a number of philosophical and scientific beliefs, it is clearly a book that will appeal to some and turn off others. That said, I find it hard to believe that he didn't find enough intellectual stimulation. Setting aside the vocabulary, I found the breadth and depth of content in this book very personally satisfying.

    The biggest issue, though, is this complaint that is levied about the language and the made-up words. If you have completed the book, please finish it before slamming the words themselves. You cannot understand the reason that he uses these words until you understand the larger message of the book. I felt for a long time that it added little, and while I got used to the words I wished that they weren't there. Then I read the last 20% of the book, and I got it. It made sense. You could still disagree with the approach, but at least you would be able to do so intelligently. The previous poster who wrote that he was halfway through the book and annoyed at the made-up words should finish the book first. If he is still annoyed, then fine. I wasn't at that point.

    It isn't a perfect book. Many people will find many faults. Personally, I felt that the last hundred pages felt rushed. I wanted more out of them. And I felt that the book changed from an intellectual discourse into a plot-driven made-for-the-big-screen story. But I still enjoyed it.

    And for the award for biggest geek family move of the year, I actually read the entire book out loud to my wife. She wanted to share the book with me, and she loved it more than I did. Go figure.

  9. It was long? What? by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's a 935-page novel that should be 600 pages or less.

    You do know who wrote the book, right? He can't type out the 10 commandments without 250 pages, an epilogue, and a vague feeling that it just wasn't quite long enough since the ending was unsatisfying.

    Calling his writing verbose is like saying Death Valley is tepid.

  10. Re:have a problem with made up words? by ahoehn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't read Tolkien's less common stuff. By less common, I mean, haven't had a movie made out of it yet.

    There's a reason that his popular stuff is popular, and his obscure stuff is obscure.

    Tolkien found a good balance between the background paraphernalia that gave his world depth and narrative in The Lord of The Rings and The Hobbit. Much of his less popular stuff doesn't find that balance, which makes it fine for us more obsessive nerd types, and not much fun for the average reader.

    --
    Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
  11. Completely Disagree by immcintosh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As far as I'm concerned, the reviewer's complaints really only apply to the first third of the book. Yeah, he made up a bunch of words, which was a bit off putting. Also, there was a very prolonged rising action where several hundred pages essentially just introduced the world; the actual plot proper didn't start until maybe page 200 or 300.

    And that's where all my complaints stopped. I found the actual plot thoroughly compelling. I found the world very interesting and all of the characters deep and quirky. Towards the end of the book I couldn't put it down. Once I got through all the introductory material, I thought this was one of the most entertaining books I've read in a good while, and I read a lot.

  12. Better than Quicksilver, not as good as others... by Badge+17 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I feel like the XKCD comic has somewhat unfairly focused the discussion on the book's invented words. While I find it frustrating in some fantasy novels, half of the charm of Anathem for me was learning the rules of this new society- which is what happens in the first hundred pages.

    What frustrated me was that, having set up this immersive, complicated world, focused on scholars and their ideas, Stephenson ended up telling a fairly conventional (if exciting) story for the remainder of the book, essentially forgetting about many of the internal conflicts of the monks about halfway through, rather than letting that drive the action. It's as if he doesn't know whether to make this book look more like Eco's The Name of the Rose or a retread of Snow Crash.

    Nonetheless, I enjoyed Anathem immensely, and I couldn't finish the Quicksilver series (dropped out halfway through System of the World). I feel like this book was more of a return to Stephenson's writing in the Diamond Age / Cryptonomicon era. It's not his best, but I'd recommend it over Quicksilver.

  13. This is Neal's Best Book Yet by DG · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I read this book on the plane on the way into theatre.

    This is Neal's best book yet. His work is high concept, intellectually challenging stuff that winds up educating as much as it entertains, and past Stephanson works have wobbled back and forth between action and education. This one gets it exactly right. It starts slow, but it has to, as there are a lot of new concepts to introduce and a whole different world to paint in before we can get going with the main story. As we learn and gain confidence with the new vocabulary (and there is a lot of it, although it is cleverly constructed to provide semantic clues as to what it means in "our world") he builds and builds on what he has already contructed, and before you know it, we are fully immersed in the culture of Arbre - at which points the story takes off and you can't put the damn book down.

    And unlike some of his other work (Diamond Age?) this book ends strong.

    I love how this book isn't written to the lowest common denominator. I love that it is willing to tackle things like philosophy, the nature of conciousness, the ramifications of the "many worlds" theory of the cosmos, thinking "long view" with people who only live a short time, and many other subjects, while still wrapping the whole thing up in an entertaining yarn.

    After I finished, I felt smarter. How many other authors can pull that off?

    DG

    --
    Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
  14. Stephenson by Xeth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Self-indulgence has always been Neal Stephenson's curse. Cryptonomicon could've been half the length. The Diamond Age got lost in several places.

    I think his best work (from an entertainment perspective) is Zodiac. It presents the tightest narrative, without all the unfocused wandering that he often falls into.

    --
    If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
  15. Re:have a problem with made up words? by moderatorrater · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It depends on the goal of making up the words/names. Tolkien created an entire world with actual languages, not just made up ones. He tends to use the made up word when he's presenting something as coming from that culture, the same way that we would pronounce something with a quasi-french pronunciation if that's where we got the word; in this way he distinguishes the item and gives it more background. He was also presenting it as a historical piece, as middle earth being the same earth that we're on right now, only a long time ago. For those reasons, it's less grating to have him make up words. However, that tendency still puts people off of his books and it's hard to fault them for it.

    For other books, where they make up new names for periods of time, like "cycle" instead of "day" or make up a new word that replaces "hour", there's no reason to do so. If an author makes up a word, let's say "klek", and then defines it as "60 minutes", they've lost a lot of credibility with me and made it so that I'll almost certainly never recommend that book to anyone else again.

  16. Baroque Cycle by DaedylusSL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I just have to thrown out a few comments to the people that quit the Baroque Cycle part way through. Yeah, this series is a beast to read (I have 100 pages left, been reading since January) but it's a fantastic story with a scope that I've never seen anywhere before. Book 1 (Quicksilver) doesn't seem to do too much on it's own, but most of what happens in that book comes back to haunt you (and the characters) in book 3 (System of the World). I'm more than impressed with Stephenson's ability to see a story this big. The books occasionally do get a little too philosophical for my taste, but those scenes are relatively easy to gloss over. (Be careful doing that though, Stephenson is a master at making small details very important later.) Over-all, I thought Book 1 was decent, Book 2 was tons of fun, and Book 3 makes it all worthwhile. Maybe the ending sucks (don't know yet) but the trip has been awesome.

    That said (and in an attempt to get back on-topic), I really haven't decided whether I'll attack Anathem yet. If there's anyone out there that shares my opinion of The Baroque Cycle, I'd love to hear your opinion on it.

  17. My wife had an interesting observation by hey! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Neal Stephenson is a writer who simply adores a shaggy dog story.

    I think he writes for the love of being clever; cleverness for its own sake, whether or not it leads to anything. Contrast this to other, even more wildly inventive authors such as Douglas Adams or Terry Pratchett, where absurdity seems to have more of a purpose, which is to make the characters struggles more sympathetic. Everyone can put himself in Arthur Dent's place, because while we might be a little self-absorbed, we're surrounded by even more aggressively self-absorbed people. In the case of Terry Pratchett, we have more pure fantasy; we can imagine ourselves to be stronger and cleverer when faced with the absurdity and corruption of everyday life than we are.

    Stephenson's characters seem to me a lot less sympathetic -- not that the have to be. He seems a lot less interested in something you might call "the human condition"; more interested in ideas, places, and things than people perhaps. Cryptonomicon is perhaps the most appealing of his novels that I have read, especially the Goto Dengo character. His survival story is immediately understandable and compelling.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  18. I'll have to read it now... by IMightB · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I must read Anathem now...

    Personally, I think that Snow Crash, while a good read is not his best (but will make a great movie). Zodiac sucked. I really liked The Diamond Age and Cryptonomicon.

    I find the Baroque Cycle (unlike so many others) utterly fascinating, it's like reverse Science Fiction. It's the story of how humans dealt with and brought about the birth of modern science and the culture and the ways of thinking that went along with it.

  19. Even Awesomer by kmhebert · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I thought the book was very good. I thought the made-up words were absolutely essential to the basic idea of the book, that there is a type of "universal knowledge" that any intelligent culture would have to understand to even call itself intelligent. This meta-knowledge took the specific forms described on Arbre and is explained to us in the terms used by the avout. I enjoyed the philosophical discussions very much, although I agreed the ending was rather unsatisfying.

    --
    Regular Meta Moderators are not more likely to get mod points.
  20. A review already? by daveewart · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A review already? Nah, not possible. The book only was only published in September. That's nowhere near long enough to read A Neal Stephenson.

    --
    "If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it." --- Arthur Kasspe
  21. I'm over Stephanson by dave562 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I read Snow Crash at least three or four times and I think it is a great book. The last book of his that I read was the Cryptonomicon. It was good and I enjoyed the parallel stories that took place in different time periods and the way that he tied them all together in the end. However as I was slogging through the 1000+ pages of the book I came to realize that Stephanson writes the equivalent of verbal ejaculate. He makes things needlessly complex. He uses so many metaphors on top of metaphors laced with adjectives contrasted by similes... He seems to be the literary equivalent of the Rube Goldberg machine, using so many devices for the simple sake of using them, as if he's challenging himself to see how unnecessarily verbose he can be. The guy simply has too much going on in his head. Reading a Stephanson book is like being plugged into the mind of a schizophrenic idiot savant.

    1. Re:I'm over Stephanson by Lurker2288 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Aw, poor baby. Hang on, maybe I can find you something with smaller words and more pictures.

  22. 100 by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 2, Funny

    Not much happens in the first 100 pages or so

    Yeah, that happens a lot in his books. Also for other blocks of 100 pages scattered throughout.

  23. Anathem - first 120 pages posted by publisher by dtolman · · Score: 2, Informative
    If you're looking for something to read in the office... harper-collins posted the first 120 pages online, plus the glossary (for those too lazy to figure out the words in context... or have the memory of a fruit fly, like I do). http://browseinside.harpercollins.com/index.aspx?isbn13=9780061474095

    Why does it stop 120 pages in? Because the next page is where the plot starts. Everything up to then is just world building.

  24. Every 200 pages by ISoldat53 · · Score: 2, Informative

    something happens.

  25. Anathem is Literature by Crutcher · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Stephensen has been stepping incrementally closer to being a literature author with each book he's written. Snow crash is fluff, Cryptonomicon is pretty deep, and the Baroque Cycle is a master work (in the original sense). Anathem is his first post master work book.

    Many posters have made the claim: "It would be better if you removed X", for various values of X. What is instructive is that not everyone agrees on X. Stephensen had a lot to say in this book, on many topics.

    I'll address a few things here, but this list isn't exhaustive:
    * Unresolved plot elements are not bad. Only in very bad fiction does absolutely everything happen in service of the ultimate confrontation. Some things just happen, and we learn about the characters in how they deal with them.
    * Characters exist for themselves, not the plot. If every character was there 'for something', this would be a (bad) video game, but it isn't, its a book.
    * The ultimate conclusion of the book is that intellectuals have a duty to the world to remain engaged. The first half (roughly) of the book exists to convince you that being segregated would be lovely, while the second half drives towards the negative consequences of that approach. The character development and the plot both work to develop this theme over time.

    --

    -- Crutcher --
    #include <disclaimer.h>
  26. In defense of the Baroque Cycle by EEDAm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Baroque Cycle is just an utterly different (huge) work to anything like Snowcrash or Diamond Age. It needs an editor who isn't scared of Stephenson in places but it is one of the most fantastic feats of human imagination I have ever read. If you can only deal with sci-fi then clearly a novel about Baroque England with Isaac Newton, a half-dicked pirate king and a fabulous ex-Hareem girl turned Duchess with diverse characters and fantastical imaginings isn't going to be your thing. But I can hardly remember a book that left me more open-mouthed with the sheer imagination and achievement of the author. The B.C. is a book that will never leave me.

  27. Re:have a problem with made up words? by daigu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I generally agree with your statement regarding making up words. Typically, it is a sign of sloppy cliche thinking and someone trying to dress it up in semantics.

    But I think you have to recognize that depicting a believable future sub-culture in a novel that you want to stand the test of time - that's a special case. You need to use language that won't become dated over time - eliminating the possibility of using current jargon. You also cannot use standard English because it misses conveying how differences of this future sub-culture. So, you have to make something up - particularly because standard concepts don't tend to cover what authors are trying to convey in this context.

    Clockwork Orange is an excellent example of the technique. Even novels like Stranger in a Strange Land do it with some degree of success - and grok is a good addition to the language. On the other hand, using a cliched abortion of a word like Islamocfascist, deserves the limited lifespan it gets. It's a fine line, and we won't know whether authors that attempt it like Neal - whether they walked it successfully for a decade or two.

  28. I have the great forturne ... by smcdow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... of NOT reading Stephenson's earlier books. This enabled me to enjoy greatly The Baroque Cycle, which I've read twice. FWIW, I don't think that Anathem is as good as The Baroque Cycle, but I may change my mind on a second reading.

    At any rate, I'm glad I passed on Snow Crash, The Diamond Age, and Cryptonomicon. If I'd read them, I'd probably be another one of those purists who can't stand it when the object of their fanboi enthusiasms has the audacity to actually change and grow and not continue to be what they were.

    --
    In the course of every project, it will become necessary to shoot the scientists and begin production.
  29. Re: Made Up Words by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 3, Funny

    Fermat called, with the help of a medium. He wants his cryptic margin annotations back.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  30. Protractors by buildguy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Fraa Erasmas: "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."

    That line, and everything after that point, made that book worth reading. It was frankly uninteresting until that it was suddenly made clear that the next 500 pages would involve defeating the opponent using applied and weaponised platonic epistemology.

    I agree with the review to some extent, but having read the book three times at this point, I put this up with Snow Crash as an example of what Stephenson can do. Now can someone make a mini-series or movie out of his books already!

    Yes, I wrote the TVTropes.org entry of Anathem and I stole some of it.

    --
    You think that's a building. Now this is a building.
  31. Litany of the Long Sun by arth1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I agree that it's a hell of a good book, but to be honest, it's extremely similar to Gene Wolfe's Litany of the Long Sun. I'm not sure whether Stephenson had read Wolfe's book and it stuck in his unconscious for a while before he wrote this one, or whether it's just zeitgeist, but the similarities are too many to not note:

    In Gene Wolfe's Litany of the Long Sun, Patera Silk, a young "cleric" from a science-based "religion" that has outlasted governments for generations, has to go forth into the world outside, and becomes an important chess piece on a global scale.
    In Stephenson's Anathem, Fraa Erasmus, a young "cleric" from a science-based "religion" that has outlasted governments for generations, has to go forth into the world outside, and become an important chess piece on a global scale.

    Fraa = Patera
    Suur = Matera
    Avout = Augur
    Arbre = Whorl
    Math = Manteion ... and so on.

    I do not think it's plagiarism, but the similarities are so great that I'm fairly certain that anyone who has read Wolfe's book can't help but think that this is a very close relative.

    And while Stephenson might be more popular these days, I still think Wolfe is the better writer. Perhaps they're not as engaging, but I find that his books stands up to re-reading more than Stephenson's novels.

    Anyhow, I recommend that people read both. They're very similar, yet different. Where Stephenson has more of a technical point of view, Wolfe appears to me to have a deeper psychological insight, and characters with more grit to them. Again, read both.

  32. Re:Harry Potter and Ann Rice got wordy too by Chuck+Chunder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Alternately authors get big enough that they don't have to bend to editors worried about commercial success.

    I for one am glad Anathem exists as it is. I don't feel that the author is self-indulgent. I feel that he's indulging me.

    --
    Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
  33. Re:have a problem with made up words? by STrinity · · Score: 2, Funny

    I have to disagree, my droog. Proctolexicogenesis is doubleplusungood. Any muggle author or holodeck scenarist worth his quatloos should be able to make do with the words that exist in plain frakking English.

    --
    Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
  34. Prepare to be "Planed" by RedLeg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The reviewer is an intellectual liteweight, in other words a clueless fuck-wit without the ability to create, but literate enough (barely) to string words together into a critique.

    Ah, Critics......

    This is perhaps one of the finest pieces of speculative fiction I have read in the past 40 years. It ranks with Herbert's Dune, and shares many qualities with that masterwork. I will be surprised if it is not the Hugo winner.

    ---SPOILER ALERT---

    The Reviewer gets it wrong from the beginning.... This is not about "religious orders", in fact a great deal of time is spent dealing with the difficulty (impossibility?) of establishing the existence of a god. Further, it's not set on a world "very similar to Earth, in a fairly distant future", but on a world in a parallel cosmos, probably not more than 100 years in our future, if that.

    The "made-up words" factor that he takes to task is critical to the whole book. To a reader with a classical education, most, if not all, of the "made-up words" have roots that are familiar. When this fails, a trip to the provided references is sufficient. The fact that these words are just on the edge of understanding is subtle evidence of the "hylean flow".

    Yes, it is "wordy". Welcome to Stevenson. If you're here, you're expected to bring enough wit and dedication to understand.

    I wonder if the fuck-wit even finished the book. It's certain he did not understand it.

    Red