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Apple Sued Over iPhone Browser

SpuriousLogic writes "A Los Angeles real estate developer is suing Apple for patent infringement over the way the iPhone navigates Web sites. The suit, which was filed on behalf of EMG Technology, seeks unspecified damages. EMG Technology is a company that holds the patents of Elliot Gottfurcht, the real estate developer, as well as Marlo Longstreet and Grant Gottfurcht. The company claims that the iPhone infringes on patent 7,441,196 — a patent that was approved only last month, after a filing process that began on March 13, 2006. That patent is for an invention that displays 'on-line content reformatted from a webpage in a hypertext markup language (HTML) format into an extensible markup language (XML) format to generate a sister site.' This sister site is a simplified version of the original site that is then displayed on any number of devices — including cell phones, EMG says."

225 comments

  1. Looking to test Bilski? by danaris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's hope this case is the first of many to be swiftly decided for throwing out the patent entirely based on In re Bilski.

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    1. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by CubanCorona · · Score: 5, Informative

      Unfortunately, this patent contains apparatus claims as well as method claims.

      The Bilski decision was limited to method claims, and so it won't apply without a fairly liberal extension of that holding.

    2. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Let's hope this case is the first of many to be swiftly decided for throwing out the patent entirely based on In re Bilski.

      Dan Aris

      IMO, the threat of bankrupting litigation will prevent smaller companies from becoming test cases for In re Bilski and the threat of getting patents busted will encourage big companies to (cross)license patents instead of going to court with each other.

      I'm sure we'll get a good test case soon enough, but self interest creates perverse incentives for companies to maintain the status quo.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, but the apparatus is nothing more than an ordinary computer. It's rather hilariously described from fairly elementary principles:

      "FIG. 4 is a block diagram of a client hardware architecture of one embodiment of the invention. A processor 100 is coupled to various memory units and an I/O bus bridge 110 by a local bus 102. Among the expected memory units are random access memory (RAM) 106, which may be any standard RAM, including standard dynamic random access memory (DRAM), and may be symmetric or asymmetric. Also coupled to bus 102 is a read-only memory (ROM) unit 108. The ROM will typically include the boot code for the processor 100. A non-volatile RAM (NVRAM) unit 104 is also coupled to the bus."

      And so on. This "client hardware architecture of one embodiment of the invention" isn't distinctive in the least. It's "hardware fluff" to make the application look like it isn't only a software patent.

    4. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Teilo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Apparatus claims are not sufficient to get around In re Biski. Simply adding the words "On a computer" or "On a handheld device" (or long drawn-out complicated descriptions which equate to the same), to a process that is, in itself, purely algorithmic or an abstract process that could equally apply to any number of pre-existing machines, does not rise to the level of the machine requirement in In re Biski.

      I like to put it his way (though this is overly simplified, perhaps): If you come up with a novel way to use a screw driver, you cannot patent your method, because you didn't have to invent the screw driver to do it. The screw driver already existed.

      In this patent, you could substitute the words, "web page displayed in a browser, running on a hand-held computer with a touch screen" for the bulk of the claim copy. Well, none of that qualifies a process as unique to a specific machine. The fact that there are many different devices that meet his description, devices that are in no way intrinsically linked to this patent, brings this into direct conflict with In re Bilski.

      --
      Mir tut es leid, Menschen daß Einfältigfehlersuchenbaumfolgendenaffen sind.
    5. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by notorious+ninja · · Score: 1

      But is it tied to a particular machine? a general purpose computer does not count as a particular machine. (and also, what is a general purpose computer? A PC would probably not qualify based on past court cases, not sure about an iphone though)

    6. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Yes, but is:

      [$PRIOR_ART], on a wireless device

      sufficient innovation to demand a patent?

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    7. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by omeomi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is it just me, or does the iPhone not do this anyway? It displays the regular webpage. Sure, there are some sites that detect the iPhone browser and deliver specially-formatted versions of their pages, but the iPhone isn't reformatting anything...

    8. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I dunno, if I discovered a way to browse webpages on my screwdriver, I'd probably be able to patent it legitimately... :D

    9. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by CubanCorona · · Score: 5, Informative

      From a completely subjective point of view, the thrust of your argument makes intuitive sense--why should a method that is not patent eligible be able to skirt this result by reciting a general purpose machine for its execution?

      Unfortunately, in the legal world, intuition must sometimes give way to legal formalisms.

      In this case the formalisms are the statutory categories of invention. Processes (methods) constitute one distinct statutory category, and machines (apparatuses) another.

      Getting back to your point, you are correct to say that, after Bilski, a method (process) claim that is otherwise not patent eligible may not become eligible by simply providing that the disclosed method is executed on a general purpose machine (computer).

      HOWEVER, an apparatus claim is separate and distinct from a method claim that is tied to an apparatus.

      So while it is true that tying a method claim to a general purpose computer is not sufficient to overcome Bilski's machine requirement, it remains true that the holding of Bilski DOES NOT APPLY TO APPARATUS CLAIMS.

      As an example, consider the following:

      Method claim: "A method of ... comprising the steps of ...."

      Method claim tied to a general purpose computer: "A method of ... executed by a computer processor, comprising the steps of ...."

      APPARATUS claim: "A computer readable storage medium containing instructions, when executed by a computer processor, operable to ...."

    10. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The general bias of this board seems to be anti-process patent. But with a great amount US GDP currently being derived from services and intellectual properties which include such processes, is there no benefit from awarding inventors if the only aspect of their invention is algorithmic in nature? I only ask because I'm a computer engineer and entrepreneur by trade and see the investment I make (time and money) developing systems which do not have current peers, and without some mechanism for allowing early market development I would probably never be able to recoup that cost. Am I just "the man" and I didn't even realize it?

    11. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Teilo · · Score: 1

      Your point is well taken. I was not aware of this distinction.

      Now, the next step in the right direction would be a ruling to the effect that a method claim cannot be recast as an apparatus claim, just to avoid the machine requirement. i.e., that if there is no essential difference between a method claim and an apparatus claim when the apparatus incorporates a general-purpose machine, the apparatus claim, by the same standard, should be denied.

      --
      Mir tut es leid, Menschen daß Einfältigfehlersuchenbaumfolgendenaffen sind.
    12. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Slasheot looks and works exactly the same on my iPhone as any desktop browser. Sure typing is a bit harder. But that doesn't matter as to how it works.

      The only big difference is that drop down menu scroll like on an index reel. This is done for limited space and appears the same for all websites. Modding posts is only slightly slower.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    13. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Informative

      Absolutely correct. The iPhone browser is a different UI built on top of a tweaked WebKit. It does not use XML or page simplification techniques in any way. I'm pretty baffled by this suit. About all I can imagine is that some web site served a simplified site to this company's iPhone based on a browser match and these folks with their complete lack of technical knowledge assumed that the iPhone did the simplification, which couldn't be farther removed from reality without talking about Internet gnomes sending messages through a series of tubes....

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    14. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't the Palm Pilot's browser be considered prior art here?

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    15. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did any one actually read the patent in question?

      For example, it states
      "This application, is a continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/518,015, filed Mar. 3, 2000, which is a continuation-in-part of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/440,214, filed Nov. 15, 1999, issued as U.S. Pat. No. 6,600,497, each of which are incorporated herein by reference."

      Then read claims 1 and 8. They are very specific as to what is allowed.
      If EGM are suing Apple, may be they are reading more broadly than they should and I'm sure Apple (who are also not shy of using lots of lawers) will correct them.

    16. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by danaris · · Score: 1

      If it is, in fact, a software patent (whether or not it's applicable to the iPhone, which seems unlikely), then from my understanding, it ought to be invalidated under Bilski no matter how many other patents are being "continued" by its claims.

      Of course, if it's totally inapplicable in the case at hand, my guess would be the case will be thrown out well before the patent would have a chance of getting invalidated.

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    17. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by davolfman · · Score: 1

      Forget that. Blazer has prior art from years before the patent was even filed! There's no way this patent should stand up.

    18. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you are talking about, and here, you don't. You can patent new uses for existing drugs, materials, chemicals, machines. Pretty much anything. Regarding in re Bilski, you poor misguided people have no idea what this decision actually means, which is very little. Yes, a percentage of business method patents that were badly written will be invalidated, but many more were already invalidated by the KSR decision last year.

    19. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Look around your office. How many of the important tools and technologies you use every day depended on patent protection in their early incarnations?

      Chances are, the answer is damned near none, except for the bottle of Viagra in your bottom desk drawer.

      Patents were never supposed to be granted on vague ideas and abstract concepts. As long as they are, they reward the unproductive at everyone else's expense.

    20. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      CSS sounds like prior art to me, but I only read the abstract.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    21. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > if I discovered a way to browse webpages on my screwdriver,
      > I'd probably be able to patent it legitimately

      Nah, I've got prior art on that. I use the tip of the screwdriver to bridge the wires...

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    22. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Teilo · · Score: 1

      Ok, Mr. AC, apparently you don't understand the meaning of the words "overly simplified". It was an analogy. Get a clue. Nor was I saying that every new use for an existing machine could not be patented.

      But what is certain: If the process is not intrinsically tied to a specific machine, and if the process does not perform some sort of transformation of one thing into something else, it cannot be patented.

      Trivialize it if you wish. Patent lawyers are freaking out. They at least don't think it's trivial.

      http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20081103134949355
      http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20081105132651542
      http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20081109185020183
      http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20081112034806294
      http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20081102011538422

      --
      Mir tut es leid, Menschen daß Einfältigfehlersuchenbaumfolgendenaffen sind.
    23. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by node+3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It won't cost small companies millions to fight a patent like this, and large companies will not pay millions of dollars if they don't have to.

      Even if both situations may actually happen from time to time, they would only have to not happen once to completely invalidate a patent.

    24. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 1

      But with a great amount US GDP currently being derived from services and intellectual properties which include such processes, is there no benefit from awarding inventors if the only aspect of their invention is algorithmic in nature?

      Will that actually increase the number/quality of such inventions? Will it perhaps actually reduce innovation by turning it into a legal minefield? I've run across a book Against Intellectual Monopoly (free PDF) that I'm currently reading, one of the points is that historically patents (and apparently copyright) have in fact pretty much never increased innovation and often appear to hurt it a bit.

      I only ask because I'm a computer engineer and entrepreneur by trade and see the investment I make (time and money) developing systems which do not have current peers, and without some mechanism for allowing early market development I would probably never be able to recoup that cost.

      You understand what you're making, so you should have a higher quality product. You also have a bit of a head start, since reverse engineering takes time.

    25. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      sorry buddy, mexicans already beat you to it! :D

    26. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      Feel free to sell your new product. Just don't pretend it is something entirely new that isn't built on decades of thousands of people laying a ground work that you're exploiting without giving back.

      Here's the point: as an entrepreneur, you get to develop whatever you want and sell it at whatever price you want. What you don't get to do is ask for a government enforced monopoly anytime you change the color on a gizmo or add some random feature, which was probably culled from somewhere else anyway.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    27. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by johanatan · · Score: 1, Informative

      Exactly. They could've picked any number of other [less popular] devices which do this, but they chose the one single device (or at least first) which displays the entire unedited page [elegantly]. Pure ignorance!

    28. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by Shin-LaC · · Score: 1

      But then your apparatus consists of an existing general purpose computer, not patentable due to prior art, combined with the software containing the algorithm, not patentable because it's a method. Furthermore, the act of combining a computer with software is itself not patentable, due to prior art and being obvious to anyone who knows what a computer is.

      I don't think that would result in something patentable.

    29. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'm not aware of any actual devices that do this. Indeed, it would be an idiotic design to do so. Generating a reduced page is necessarily a server-side process, or at best, a web-proxy-side process. The primary reason to create reduced sites is to conserve bandwidth over a really freaking slow connection. Doing it on the client side completely misses the whole point of content reduction---making a horribly slow connection seem not-so-horribly slow....

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    30. Re:Looking to test Bilski? by johanatan · · Score: 1

      I have seen some crapware that attempts this. It does do it server side though. The client software (i.e., web browser) is designed to always pull its data through particular servers which do the transformations. It's the same idea as when you let m.google.com load your pages for you (but in my experience, no where near as good quality-wise).

  2. Oh, well... by MaxwellEdison · · Score: 2, Funny

    That is certainly a necessary invention for a real estate developer...otherwise how could they display information about their latest housing projects or large malls on an iPhone?!

    --
    -=Bang Bang=-
    1. Re:Oh, well... by Theaetetus · · Score: 5, Funny

      That is certainly a necessary invention for a real estate developer...otherwise how could they display information about their latest housing projects or large malls on an iPhone?!

      You're only allowed to invent something that you can personally use? You do know that tampons weren't invented by a woman, right?

    2. Re:Oh, well... by larry+bagina · · Score: 4, Funny

      you do know that they were originally developed for diarrhea, don't you?

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    3. Re:Oh, well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I suppose(itory) you're right...

    4. Re:Oh, well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Yeah, they were invented by a man so the woman would quit her bitchin'.

    5. Re:Oh, well... by MaxwellEdison · · Score: 1

      No, I'm merely pointing out the absurdity of the claim and the likelihood that they really developped anything. This patent is taking the classic shotgun approach. Their core idea appears to be (if one can even be said to interpret patent writings)converting HTML to XML for the purpose of navigation by quadrants. They then of course extrapolate that to all possible uses, even speech recognition software. Had this patent been filed 5 or 10 years prior, there may possibly be a case for it. It's only been 2 and a half years however. This should not, and can not be allowed to stand.

      --
      -=Bang Bang=-
    6. Re:Oh, well... by TheRealZero · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, some of us still have working sarcasm detectors, so I'm right there with you.

    7. Re:Oh, well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Truly epic fail....

    8. Re:Oh, well... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Informative

      True. Ideas can come from anywhere. While Nikola Tesla first invented the frequency hopping that later became Spread spectrum technology, it was refined in part by Hedy Lamarr, a Hollywood actress in the 1940s.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    9. Re:Oh, well... by FreakinSyco · · Score: 5, Funny

      Your shitting me right?

    10. Re:Oh, well... by chill · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's Hedley!

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    11. Re:Oh, well... by Zwicky · · Score: 1

      Actually they were invented by a bloke with vampiric tendencies but who was also a big softie who couldn't bring himself to bite his bride's neck. He would suck on one of these instead.

      Sorry, have I sunk to a low enough level for you yet...? :)

      --
      "Three eyes are better than one" -- Lieutenant Columbo
    12. Re:Oh, well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually that's a great idea, if everybody wanting to enforce a patent would have to actually use the patent in production...

    13. Re:Oh, well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, yes you have.

    14. Re:Oh, well... by johanatan · · Score: 0

      Listen, that came from 'Larry Bagina'--I think he's an expert on the matter.

    15. Re:Oh, well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Spread spectrum technology ... was refined in part by Hedy Lamarr, a Hollywood actress in the 1940s.

      now that's snappy!

    16. Re:Oh, well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bad bad bad idea. so if you want to be a research institute, instead of living off patents, you have to have your production chain attached. bad bad idea. bad idea, bad! now go pee outside!

    17. Re:Oh, well... by trytoguess · · Score: 1

      No, because Ann Rice already used that (seriously).

    18. Re:Oh, well... by Zwicky · · Score: 1

      I can only apologize profusely. I thought it was lame as I wrote it and I guess that proves it :)

      --
      "Three eyes are better than one" -- Lieutenant Columbo
  3. Yet another patent troll. by neowolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So- they essentially patented WAP? I think Apple can come up with enough "prior artwork" for this one. It's unfortunate though that companies like this (EMG) are allowed to even exist. When will it end?

    1. Re:Yet another patent troll. by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Informative

      So- they essentially patented WAP?

      No, it's worse than that. They basically patented XSLT, and the application of it to target different devices.

      Another completely retarded patent.

    2. Re:Yet another patent troll. by Zarf · · Score: 1

      So- they essentially patented WAP?

      No, it's worse than that. They basically patented XSLT, and the application of it to target different devices.

      Another completely retarded patent.

      That's how I read it. And I can believe that a gray bearded judge would completely miss something that obvious.

      --
      [signature]
    3. Re:Yet another patent troll. by Bengie · · Score: 1

      I will have to agree. "Patent", "reformatted (read: transformation)", and "XML" should never all be in the same paragraph. "We've patented a way to transform XML!" Ever hear of "Extensible Stylesheet Language Transformations" A.K.A. XSLT

    4. Re:Yet another patent troll. by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      So- they essentially patented WAP? I think Apple can come up with enough "prior artwork" for this one. It's unfortunate though that companies like this (EMG) are allowed to even exist. When will it end?

      Well maybe not WAP, but at least what Firefox has been doing since before 2006. That is taking an unstructured document and then structuring as XML so that it can go through a common renderer. There is probably more than enough prior art here.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    5. Re:Yet another patent troll. by dontmakemethink · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed, patents are the new domain squatting. Patent applicants should be required to demonstrate reasonable facilities and intent to bring the process or product to market. Otherwise inevitable discovery by an apt and able company should supercede impotent IP claims. "I thought of it first" isn't enough.

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
    6. Re:Yet another patent troll. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yup, actually sounds more like rss feed of an html page using xslt :(

    7. Re:Yet another patent troll. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Absolutely not. There is no way that one should have to demonstrate FACILITY to implement an idea to patent it - that's just an implementation of the "Rich Man Wins" paradigm. Poor and middle class inventors should also have the opportunity, not just whoever's rich enough to have a factory.

      INTENT to implement, that I can agree with. That way, one still has the option of getting the patent then using that as evidence of ability to produce in order to get investors or loans. It should also be a requirement of a patent that the patent has been implemented in a legitimate design or product within a reasonable time (maybe 2 years?) of the approval.

  4. Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shall I laugh? Or shall I cry?

    1. Re:Question by MaxwellEdison · · Score: 5, Funny

      Do both, and then walk in to your boss's office and give them a hug. Offer no explaination when pressed.

      --
      -=Bang Bang=-
  5. Decoding anyone? by Leafheart · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So they got a patent on decoding and interpreting? Isn't that covered by prior art with things like PDFCreator, or is it enough to change file types to get it?

    --
    --- "When you gotta do something wrong. You gotta do it right. (Fighter)"
    1. Re:Decoding anyone? by LandDolphin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seeing as the people who evaluate the patent probably don't have any computer experience, the answer would probably be yes.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    2. Re:Decoding anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the patent is described in the summary. Your analysis skills are apparently equal to your knowledge of law.

    3. Re:Decoding anyone? by tyrione · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seeing as the people who evaluate the patent probably don't have any computer experience, the answer would probably be yes.

      That's rather rich. ``So let me get this straight, all I have to do is validate or invalidate software patents but I don't need any experience on computers?''

      Respondent: ``That's correct.''

      Self: ``Now I understand the meaning of `this is government work.'''

  6. Patent reform by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We need some serious patent reform. Patents are good and necessary in general but many of these go too far or are too vague or are not based on working prototypes.

    How long before we see a patent on "a system of placing letters and numbers in sequential order in order to convey something meaningful"?

    1. Re:Patent reform by bigmouth_strikes · · Score: 5, Funny

      How long before we see a patent on "a system of placing letters and numbers in sequential order in order to convey something meaningful"?

      Sadly, there's no prior art for this on the internet...

      --
      Oh, I can't help quoting you because everything that you said rings true
    2. Re:Patent reform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have the patent on that, and now you owe me... 100 billion dollars! muhahahaha

    3. Re:Patent reform by Sun.Jedi · · Score: 4, Funny

      How long before we see a patent on "a system of placing letters and numbers in sequential order in order to convey something meaningful"?

      Sadly, there's no prior art for this on the internet...

      Yes. There is. /. is a great example.

    4. Re:Patent reform by Zarf · · Score: 1

      How long before we see a patent on "a system of placing letters and numbers in sequential order in order to convey something meaningful"?

      Sadly, there's no prior art for this on the internet...

      Yes. There is. /. is a great example.

      I completely disagree.

      --
      [signature]
    5. Re:Patent reform by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      "How long before we see a patent on "a system of placing letters and numbers in sequential order in order to convey something meaningful"?

      Well thank God Slashdot will be safe if this ever happens...

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    6. Re:Patent reform by Anpheus · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, you'rr wronajf aopfjawr pojasf poawtj ow ao BANANA BANANA BANANA BANANA

    7. Re:Patent reform by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      How long before we see anti-patent people come up with a new joke formula?

    8. Re:Patent reform by richie2000 · · Score: 1

      Patents are good and necessary in general

      How do we know that? No, really. I have seen exactly zero studies that come to this conclusion while there is at least circumstantial evidence to the contrary.

      --
      Money for nothing, pix for free
    9. Re:Patent reform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe you mean Banana banana banana terracotta banana terracotta terracotta pie

    10. Re:Patent reform by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 3, Informative

      We need some serious patent reform. Patents are good and necessary in general...

      I seriously doubt this. The claim for patents is that they protect the 'useful arts' by offering inventors a limited-time monopoly on whatever they have invented - provided that the invention passes some test of non-obviousness and utility.

      However, if you look back in history to periods in which some countries had patent systems and some did not - the United Kingdom and Germany in the nineteenth century, for example - it's clear that lack of a patent system did not in the least hold back inventors in Germany from inventing and developing new technologies. On the contrary. So the intellectual justification for having a patent system in the first place looks a bit thin.

      I think we'd all - drug companies included - be better off if there were no such things as patents.

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    11. Re:Patent reform by maxume · · Score: 1

      Your tail is showing.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    12. Re:Patent reform by ErikRed1488 · · Score: 1

      Off topic, but I'd love to see some type of BOINC based software that tested this theory. It could generate completely random text then grep that text for a certain pattern, say a few paragraphs of Hamlet. I'd certainly throw a few clock cycles at this.

      --
      I was not touched there by an angel.
    13. Re:Patent reform by blhack · · Score: 1

      However, if you look back in history to periods in which some countries had patent systems and some did not - the United Kingdom and Germany in the nineteenth century, for example - it's clear that lack of a patent system did not in the least hold back inventors in Germany from inventing and developing new technologies. On the contrary. So the intellectual justification for having a patent system in the first place looks a bit thin.

      This is because in the 19th Century (and prior), things were large enough to be made by hand. A farmer could, using tools and materials that were readily available, create a machine that would revolutionize his industry (see: the cotton gin).
      This isn't true in today's world. Things are built to almost-atom scale. The sometimes-multiple-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars cost of entry to an industry is the reason why patents have become a necessity (see: jets, microprocessors, exotic-materials, space exploration, telecommunications).

      Really, the last area in which an entrepreneur can enter the global market is software. Because of this, patents need to be reformed, but the basis of the system needs to remain intact.

      --
      NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
    14. Re:Patent reform by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Funny

      They can't all of them have been patentented.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    15. Re:Patent reform by Gorbag · · Score: 1
      The simplest patent reform, and applicable to all civil suits, would simply be "loser pays." If these bozos had to pay for Apple's defense, Apple would be more likely to defend than settle, and these guys would have to put up a substantial bond to go forward, discouraging frivolity.

      In addition, disbarring lawyers for the real imbicilities could only make the world the better place.

      --
      -- I speak only for myself
    16. Re:Patent reform by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      How long before we see a patent on "a system of placing letters and numbers in sequential order in order to convey something meaningful"? Sadly, there's no prior art for this on the internet...

      Yes. There is. /. is a great example.

      No, that's a terrible example, '/' and '.' are not letters or numbers.

    17. Re:Patent reform by jonadab · · Score: 1

      Usenet is nothing like Shakespeare.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    18. Re:Patent reform by scamper_22 · · Score: 1

      The issue is two fold.

      1. Try reading a patent application. Since it is worded in 'lawyer speak' no one knows what it really means. One of the key patent reforms must include writing patents and claims in simple language.

      2. Allow for an easy process for invalidating a patent. Mistakes can and will happen in any system that requires judgment. So why not make the process easier to correct such decisions?

    19. Re:Patent reform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should we innovate? None of the patent trolls are.

    20. Re:Patent reform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, not all of us. I'd be out of a job :P

    21. Re:Patent reform by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      I think we'd all - drug companies included - be better off if there were no such things as patents.

      I wouldn't. I invented and hold several patents (and have several more pending) for specific, realized, and used improvements to loudspeaker technology. And I earn a large portion of my income in license fees from large companies, many of whom started out by infringing (a few after being shown the patented designs) and with a few well placed legal shots-across-the-bow decided my small royalty was cheaper and easier to deal with.

      Patents are, I believe, a necessary device and I think the US founding fathers got it right by including patents in the Constitution (yes, to eliminate patents would take a Constitutional amendment). Sometimes the process of granting patents is screwed, but for every bad patent issued - like the one of this article - there are many that are valuable, worthwhile, and actually USED to improve product by their original inventor or assignee.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  7. Uh... wrong browser? by Millennium · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I know Opera Mini and some other mobile browsers do this, but I thought Safari worked on the HTML itself. Wouldn't that render the patent irrelevant?

    1. Re:Uh... wrong browser? by Professor_UNIX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you're going to interpret rendering a page with less "features" as generating a sister site then Mosaic 1.0 is prior art for this patent. Try browsing the web with Mosaic 1.0 and you'll see a drastically different web "scaled down" for older computers by cutting out Flash, Java, Javascript, CSS... hell, it may not have even supported tables.

    2. Re:Uh... wrong browser? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I was visiting Linda at the hospital and logged on to wikipedia from the computer in the waiting room to google "Bilirubin" (probably misspelled; she had elevated levels because of the cancer. The substance is what makes pee yellow.)

      Then I tried to log onto Yahoo! news, but got an error. The error said that the page wasn't supported by Windows CE.

      It was some HP internet-only device smaller than a cigar box, hooked to a Dell flat screen monitor and apparently running Windows CE, although the desktop looked like Windows 98 or XP.

      So I guess Microsoft is in the clear with this patent. Now all Apple has to do is prove that their method doesn't infringe.

      I had a friend who worked in a factory with a machine shop. His boss would bring some gizmo in and ask "can you make one of these?" He said they didn't care about patents, that was what the firm's legal department was for. Often all it took to get around a patent was to simply use a different material than the patented device.

    3. Re:Uh... wrong browser? by digitig · · Score: 1

      Lynx even more so.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    4. Re:Uh... wrong browser? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Almost definitely one of HP's CE based thin clients: 5510, 5520, 5530, or 5540 depending on the age of the anecdote and hipness of the hospital IT department.

    5. Re:Uh... wrong browser? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, although I'm not sure (not being a patent attorney and all), it seems to me that these greed dumbfucks just blindly filed against the most high-profile target without bothering to check whether Safari on the iPhone actually infringes. Either that, or they're less dumb and more evil and deliberately trying to extend their patent to any and all in-browser reformatting of a web page.

    6. Re:Uh... wrong browser? by freemywrld · · Score: 1

      If I am not mistaken, the HP thinterms run XP Embedded, not Windows CE. At least the ones we have deployed in our hospital do.

    7. Re:Uh... wrong browser? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      logged on to wikipedia from the computer in the waiting room to google "Bilirubin"
      logged on to wikipedia to google "Bilirubin"

      lol whut?

    8. Re:Uh... wrong browser? by Tom · · Score: 1

      Correct.

      Tables were introduced in Mosaic 2.

      The first releases of IE, btw., also did not support tables.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    9. Re:Uh... wrong browser? by Gnavpot · · Score: 1

      If you're going to interpret rendering a page with less "features" as generating a sister site then Mosaic 1.0 is prior art for this patent.

      No, that is not what the GP referred to with the Opera Mini example.

      Opera (the company) runs a proxy which simplifies the pages before serving them to the clients. Opera Mini (the browser, typically installed on a cell phone) connects thorugh this proxy.

      Works beatifully, by the way - except that the proxy seems to take longer and longer to process the pages.

    10. Re:Uh... wrong browser? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      HP offers both options(along with two flavors of linux) on their various thin client models. I'm assuming that parent wouldn't have gotten a "not supported by CE" error had it been an XP embedded box, though.

  8. Oh boy... by Linuss · · Score: 5, Funny

    I hope my patent for hamburgers is approved soon, i filed it in 1607 and want to sue mcdonalds. truth.

    1. Re:Oh boy... by I+cant+believe+its+n · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "They set up the Campaign for Real Time to try to stop this sort of thing going on. Their case was considerably strengthened by the fact that a week after they had set themselves up, news broke that not only had the great Cathedral of Chalesm been pulled down in order to build a new ion refinery, but that construction of the refinery had taken so long, and had had to extend so far back into the past in order to allow ion production to start on time, that the Cathedral of Chalesm had now never been built in the first place." - Douglas Adams

      --
      She made the willows dance
    2. Re:Oh boy... by DPyro · · Score: 1

      But McDonald's is already patenting the sandwich! http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/11/25/0034229.shtml

    3. Re:Oh boy... by initialE · · Score: 1

      You filed a patent at 1607 and want an answer by 2254? isn't that a bit unreasonable?

      --
      Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
  9. I think Opera Mini does the same thing? by ekran · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Isn't this how Opera Mini works?

  10. But... they sued the wrong company by Dekortage · · Score: 4, Informative

    Safari doesn't create a different version of the web page. It shows the original HTML version, just graphically scaled down. So EMG should be suing all the other cell phone browser companies. As the article notes:

    Now, it seems to me that this is a description of what every single mobile phone on the market does. Every mobile phone EXCEPT the iPhone, that is. Remember all those commercials touting how the iPhone doesn't display a simplified Web site, but the full Web page? ... The press release issued by EMG claims that the iPhone uses the same method as their invention. So, doesn't every other mobile phone do this as well? Should a patent granted last month hand over intellectual property rights for every single handheld device that accesses the Web?

    --
    $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
    1. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by powerlord · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Four possibilities:

      1) They wish to claim that "scaled down" is included in their definition of a "Sister site" (absurd)

      2) They believe the Safari browser in the iPhone is not showing the "real" site (uninformed)

      3) They are trying to use Safari as a test case since Apple's best argument is that it "doesn't scale things". Even if they lose, they can't point to this lawsuit and use it as a basis to force other cell phone makers to pay up (since they can't claim apple's defense) (unlikely, but plausible. IANAL)

      4) They are going after Apple because its the "hot" thing with lots of money to go after (likely)

      Anyone have any other ideas? :)

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    2. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, they basically described the entire functionality of Opera Mini. Opera Mobile renders full pages, but Opera Mini gets simplified shrunk pages from an opera run proxy server.

    3. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Anyone have any other ideas? :)

      5) They're a real estate company that doesn't know their head from their ass. -ets.

    4. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by ergo98 · · Score: 1

      Or Google if you search from many types of mobile phone (Google automatically transforms results, as you navigate to them, to simplified versions).

    5. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by truthsearch · · Score: 4, Informative

      4) They are going after Apple because its the "hot" thing with lots of money to go after (likely)

      "We haven't looked at anything other than the iPhone," Gibson told Reuters. "That was the device that we looked at. Obviously it's very popular."

    6. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by powerlord · · Score: 1

      Even if they lose, they can't point to this lawsuit and use it as a basis to force other cell phone makers to pay up

      Meant to say CAN.

      New meme: Playing Duke Nukem Forever on my Apple MiniPro while REEDITING my slashdot comments :/

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    7. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Oh man, I love iPhone fanboys and their belief that the iPhone is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Hint: you might want to tell Nokia, and Microsoft(?). Nokia's N Series browsers use Webkit and have been around since pre iPhone times, happily rendering full web pages, likewise Pocket IE, I believe (though I may be wrong on the latter).

    8. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by immcintosh · · Score: 1

      Yeah, this is what really just blew my mind. They could have sued any other phone manufacturer on earth and had a case, but yet they chose Apple. I... I just don't understand the world anymore :(

    9. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are!

    10. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by pxuongl · · Score: 3, Interesting

      they know their patent claim is pretty thin, and that all other cell phones are in themselves prior art as they only filed for this patent last year. sounds to me that they've chosen to target the iPhone because it was only released last year, therefore being least likely for a company to claim prior art

    11. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      6) They're scam artists hoping to force Apple to settle rather than go through the time and expense of defending themselves and/or getting the patent overturned.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    12. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MobileSafari would be useless without multi-touch.

    13. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by dontmakemethink · · Score: 1

      "We haven't looked at anything other than the iPhone,"

      They have never noticed a browser on any cel phone but an iPhone? Where do these people live?

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
    14. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by egghat · · Score: 2, Informative

      I' quite sure they mean websites like this

      Top 10 iPhone Optimized Websites or 20 Websites Optimized for the iPhone

      While this is no rewriting/transformation it could be considered as some kind of "sister site".

      I'd still consider their claims "wobbly" and hope that they'll fail.

      --
      -- "As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
    15. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, they're fucking retarded.

    16. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by brainnolo · · Score: 1

      Actually the iPhone is one of the few cell phones which doesn't do what is described in the patent, so the probably didn't even look at the iPhone.

    17. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by mini+me · · Score: 1

      I recall back when IE started to gain in popularity it wasn't uncommon to have two versions of a given site. One for IE, and one for Netscape. A "sister site" in that sense is nothing new.

    18. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by notrandomly · · Score: 1

      Now, it seems to me that this is a description of what every single mobile phone on the market does. Every mobile phone EXCEPT the iPhone, that is.

      I don't understand this comment. Haven't both Opera and Nokia been doing this for years before Apple came around?

    19. Re:But... they sued the wrong company by notrandomly · · Score: 1

      That's amazingly honest of Gibson, admitting that they aren't aware of all the prior art, and that they haven't even researched it. Hope these people get fined or something for their pathetic patent trolling.

  11. Reformat content? by fermion · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I thought the whole point of the iphone was to not have to reformat content, the iphone can display it the way it is. I know some sites, like amazon, are so badly formatted that the owners feel the site has to be rewritten for iPhone, but it does not help much. Other sites, like NYT, wrote an app, but that appears to be for ad revenue purposes, as iPhone does not have flash. The same for Youtube.

    So, at the end of the day, I fail to see how this applies to any modern smart phone. Only the older phones, or non-smart phones, can't render HTML as is. Of course most of these problems are caused by graphic designers not understanding HML, and borking the standard so we now have web pages that make no sense in almost an common browser.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:Reformat content? by jornak · · Score: 0

      Henceforth why any user should validate their code through W3C's Markup Validation if they're wanting to display it on a mobile browser of any kind.

    2. Re:Reformat content? by IceCreamGuy · · Score: 1

      What they are talking about is its ability to recognize blocks of text and items by looking at the HTML and CSS. If you notice, the iPhone doesn't just zoom in an arbitrary amount when you double-tap; if you tap on a paragraph, it knows what the paragraph is and sets it to the screen edges dynamically.

  12. Opera by selfabuse · · Score: 1

    Opera on my Zaurus has been doing this since well before 2006

    1. Re:Opera by SteveRyan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Someplace I have a Handspring Visor with a Xircom WiFi adapter that does this, too; it was from early in 2002. It might even still work, if Palm hasn't unplugged the proxy servers yet.

    2. Re:Opera by TypoNAM · · Score: 1

      Yep, good ole Opera 6 on my Sharp Zaurus SL-5500. I personally used the OpenZaurus distribution with the exported Opera browser from the last sharp firmware release for my model.

      But yeah it worked great at the time for any website I visited to be presented just like the computer version of opera and the other web browsers and the zoom features were fairly decent. Of course back then websites weren't so web 2.0 crazy either since majority of the content wasn't drastically dynamically manipulated in javascript like current slashdot is today. So, I'm not sure how well it would work on websites of today.

      On a side note the last time I used my SL-5500 it had a screen refresh problem as it slowly updated and it was like watching a badly flickering CRT monitor update, except you could see the lines of the display redraw at like 8 FPS and it just made me think that it was dying so I just stopped using it all together.

      --
      This space is not for rent.
  13. pitiful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    this reads like the first chapter of every book about XML, titled "why use XML?". Gee - ship out XML and transform according the the display-location's needs and abilities.

    I'm patenting a system wherein the movement of the person's diaphragm enables the lungs to draw i air thereby retaining consciousness and enabling continued living".

  14. Simpsons by forgoil · · Score: 4, Funny

    Worst... patent... ever...

    Just kill patents now, please, they are just in the way and never ever actually protects individuals, only capital, and money should flow to help innovation, not be collected by greedy old men to lure attractive (but oh so dumb) women to be with them.

    1. Re:Simpsons by Theaetetus · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Worst... patent... ever...

      Just kill patents now, please, they are just in the way and never ever actually protects individuals, only capital, and money should flow to help innovation, not be collected by greedy old men to lure attractive (but oh so dumb) women to be with them.

      Spoken like a good consumer whore, parroting back the words of large companies who can pay for trade secret protection and would love to steal from small inventors.

    2. Re:Simpsons by Xerolooper · · Score: 1

      When inventors come up with a new device, the first thing they want to do is patent it. Patents are a government's way of giving an inventor ownership of his or her creation. For a certain period of time, patent-holders are allowed to control how their inventions are used, allowing them to reap the financial rewards of their work. Patents are a palpable, legally-binding manifestation of a person's genius and innovation; they allow a person to actually own an idea.

      from How stuff works
      If it actually worked this would be good.

      Worst... patent... ever...

      I tend to agree. There should be stricter rules. But what happens is they start to come up with some rules to help prevent things like this and they are turned around to actually be used to cause more trolling.

      --
      "The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." -Thomas Szasz
    3. Re:Simpsons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No no no...don't kill the patents. Kill the people that decide to create these crappy patents and then sue everyone and their dogs.

      I believe the "fist of death" list would currently include McDonald's and their patent for how to make a sandwich.

    4. Re:Simpsons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you. Very, very correct.

    5. Re:Simpsons by A440Hz · · Score: 1

      Baby, bathwater, meet ground outside kitchen window.

  15. Re:first poop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess that's why they call this board random

  16. Junk patent: lots of prior work by lieuwen · · Score: 5, Informative

    The patent examiners seems to have missed all the prior work at WWW. For instance,
    Juliana Freire, Bharat Kumar, Daniel F. Lieuwen: WebViews: accessing personalized web content and services. WWW 2001: 576-586
    Anyone reasonably skilled in the art could have gone from my paper to that claim without much trouble---we use htmltidy to turn html into xml and used xpath to extract pieces out of it which we could transcode in various ways including in voicexml. We built a system that did just that. And thats just one paper. WWW had a number of papers, any which of them should have killed this patent if the patent examiner had done the proper due diligence.

    1. Re:Junk patent: lots of prior work by argent · · Score: 1

      Almost as much fun as when Dennis Ritchie demolished SCO's claims about System V code in Linux.

    2. Re:Junk patent: lots of prior work by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2, Funny

      The patent examiners seems to have missed all the prior work at WWW.

      Ya, but this patent adds "on the Internet". :-)

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    3. Re:Junk patent: lots of prior work by pxuongl · · Score: 1

      and i'll file a patent that adds "in bed"

    4. Re:Junk patent: lots of prior work by kansas1051 · · Score: 1

      The patent goes back to November 1999. Good prior art would have to be published before November 1998 (your paper looks like it was published in 2001).

    5. Re:Junk patent: lots of prior work by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 1

      on the Internet over wireless. Double top trumps to you.

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
  17. The iPhone Browser is plain WebKit, renders HTML by mstroeck · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is just awesome. The "Dumbest Fuck Ever"-Award clearly goes to the lawyer who filed this laughably thin suit against a company that never has done anything funky to display HTML on its handhelds. The iPhone runs OS X, slightly scaled down for memory and power consumption gains.

  18. Did I miss the memo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Is today Patent Wednesday or something?

  19. Eh? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I know it is all flashy and high profile and profitable and stuff; but isn't the iPhone a really stupid target for this sort of thing? My impression was that mobile safari behaved almost exactly like desktop safari(in terms of rendering), which means acting pretty much like any webkit based browser. There are phone/mobile browsers that do all sorts of curious chopping and reformatting, possibly event patentable chopping and reformatting; but wasn't one of the perks of the iPhone that it didn't need to?

  20. Palm 7 by argent · · Score: 1

    Um, wasn't there prior art on the Palm 7 *last century*?

    1. Re:Palm 7 by vondo · · Score: 1

      Or my Palm Pilot Pro before that. I can't remember the program anymore, but there was a proxy browser where a server simplified the content for the Palm and sent you a very reduced page with tiny monochrome graphics.

      And yeah, it was cool in 1997.

  21. XSLT is the key by Vapula · · Score: 4, Informative

    Easy prior art :
    <xsl:stylesheet xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3c.org/1999/XSL/Transform" version="1.0">

    </xsl:stylesheet>

    XSLT clearly existed in 1999... And if you use an empty stylesheet, you get a (very) simplified document which only contains the text nodes, without any HTML (or other) tags...

    That can easily be displayed on text-only devices.

    If you add a

    <xsl:template select="a">
        <xsl:copy-of select="." />
    </xsl:template>

    The links are preserved (but are the only kind of formatting preserved)... That's basic XSLT and I guess that many teachers who give XML lessons have used similar examples...

    1. Re:XSLT is the key by DrXym · · Score: 2, Informative
      XSL wouldn't work on HTML because generally speaking it isn't well-formed. Not even a XHTML DTD ensures well-formedness because browsers are far too forgiving.

      Anyway this patent is bullshit. If the iPhone were transforming the site in some meaningful way, it would be guaranteed to break any JavaScript in the page. That code calling document.getElementById("foo") would break when "foo" wasn't there or was rearranged. Safari might scale images or reflow the content, or ignore certain style rules but nothing that hasn't been done numerous times in space-confined browsers - Pocket IE, Opera, Netfront, Minimo, Lynx etc.

  22. What do you expect by qazwart · · Score: 4, Funny

    When does Apple ever do anything creative?

    (WARNING: The above post contains a large amount of sarcasm. It is not intended to be taken seriously. If you feel a need to argue with this point ("No way, Dude! Apple is the bestest company in the whole wide world!). Go download an iPhone application. I hear there's a new one out that's nice and shiny. If you want to defend this post (Yeah, Apple Sucks!). Go back to your PC and marvel at the wonders of Vista. If you only use Linux as your operating system, let your parents know I feel sorry for them.)

  23. There's prior art by TeXMaster · · Score: 5, Informative

    Opera has been doing this kind of stuff (the specific things discussed in the patent, I mean, not the patent trolling itself) since they got heavily into the mobile business anyway. Opera Mini, specifically, was officially launched on 2006-01-24, which is before that patent was filed. Earlier releases, which already used methods and apparati addressed by this patent, were already deployed in 2005.

    --
    "I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
    1. Re:There's prior art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Right (except for the XML part, that is, I really don't think Opera Mini would receive the reformatted pages as *XML* of all things -- this piece of specify is enough to make the patent apparently not appliable, BTW). Funny thing is, iPhone *doesn't* do this, it's browser does no reformatting, it shows the page just as a desktop browser would, except that it's miniature and you have to zoom in. The lawyers probably got confused by sites that detect iPhone and serve simplified pages...

    2. Re:There's prior art by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Ah, so what they need to do is sue web designers for detection of browser types. I guess that will need a whole new patent:

      "... to use User-Agent browser head on a computer, provided via a network connection, via RAM, to the processor, to match to a list of browsers to serve the appropriate page."

      Hey, I'd better head down to the patent office right now! Time to attempt the extortion of a few more companies.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:There's prior art by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      I don't know what I was thinking, but I misread your post as saying that "Oprah has been doing this kind of stuff...". I was wondering, WTF, is she getting into the patent troll business too?

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
  24. sue google then? by Bizzeh · · Score: 1

    shouldnt they be suing google since they have been doing this as long as i have been using the web on my phone.
    search anything on google via your phone, and it will pass the site through its own parser giving a mangled xml version of the site, and they even split large pages into multiple pages.

  25. NKOL by mstroeck · · Score: 1

    Huh?

    Your post rings a weird bell in my head that hasn't been rung before. Some completely new kind of ... lameness, maybe? Virgin territory to man, in any case.

  26. opera mini by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How long have Opera Mini done this? Since the first version? Opera mini was released 1996.

  27. error: time machine missing by Kartoffel · · Score: 0

    "Only approved last month"? Sounds like the iPhone is prior art. Too bad, patent troll.

    1. Re:error: time machine missing by Markspark · · Score: 1

      since the submission date counts, i would disagree with you, however there are plenty of other cases of prior art.

      --
      i find your lack of faith in science disturbing!
  28. Prior Art by Dragoon412 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    First off, IANAL. I am a law student with IP and patent law classes under my belt, but I'm still just a law student. Take the following with a grain of salt.

    In a lot of the patent articles on Slashdot, where someone will ask "Isn't X prior art?" Often, even though it seems intuitively that it should be, it's not.

    Actual prior art, which would be sufficient to legally defeat a patent, must read on all of a patent's claims. Assume the patent in question has claims (basically, technical description of features) A, B, and C. You research patents, and you find older patents:

    Patent 1 has claims A and B.
    Patent 2 has claims B and C.
    Patent 3 has claims A and C.

    None of those will defeat the patent in question on prior art grounds, because none of them include all of the claims A, B, and C.

    What you may have at that point is an obviousness objection. You could argue that because there are patents 1-3 exist, that combining them to create A, B, and C was so obvious to someone skilled in the art that the patent should be invalidated for failing to be non-obvious. But that's different than prior art.

    Having a patent invalidated for prior art is actually pretty uncommon. Obviousness issues are more common, but often, it's cheaper to just settle.

    1. Re:Prior Art by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As a law student what would be your take on this company that seemingly has sued Apple when their technology doesn't infringe on the patent at all. Now I haven't read the exact patent and don't pretend to fully understand it but the article quotes:

      That patent is for an invention that displays "on-line content reformatted from a webpage in a hypertext markup language (HTML) format into an extensible markup language (XML) format to generate a sister site." This sister site is a simplified version of the original site that is then displayed on any number of devices--including cell phones, EMG says.

      Most phone web browsers do this because of the limitations on the device. Apple's iPhone however scales the web page in size for memory and screen considerations but does not rely on a sister site nor simplifies the page. At best this is a case of a plaintiff not doing their research. At worst, it's another patent troll company looking for the biggest fish.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re:Prior Art by Fzz · · Score: 3, Informative
      Actual prior art, which would be sufficient to legally defeat a patent, must read on all of a patent's claims.

      I'm not a lawyer either, but I have successfully contested several patents in court (one European, one US case), and had them invalidated. Your statement is not quite correct.

      Usually a patent has a series of independent claims. A piece of prior art must read on all the elements of a single claim to invalidate that claim. However you can use different pieces of prior art to invalidate different independent claims.

    3. Re:Prior Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, let me get this straight:

      1 - any patent that combines earlier patents to produce a unique mix will not be denied because of Prior Art?

      2 - So I could generate new patents by random mixing of existing patents?

      3 - And even if the result is 'obvious', it may be less cost to settle?

      4 - PROFIT!!!

    4. Re:Prior Art by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Yes

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    5. Re:Prior Art by immcintosh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, that's fine, but from what I gather this patent has a couple of points against it in that (a) its claims seem quite simple and happen to only encompass a process that has been quite common for several years, and (b) it the iPhone doesn't even implement the process covered by this patent; it doesn't even come close to implementing it, in fact, it's the one phone on the market that is overwhelmingly not covered by this patent, unless I'm vastly misunderstanding the content of this patent.

      Prior art aside, I'm guessing it's point (b) which is going to see this one dead in the water. They chose the iPhone because it's hot and popular, but failed to realize that their patent doesn't even relate to it. I'd think Apple would even be able to pursue something like malicious prosecution charges because of how flagrantly inapplicable this patent is.

    6. Re:Prior Art by ensignyu · · Score: 1

      IANAL, nor do I know much about patents (so correct me if I'm wrong), but that doesn't sound right. The claims are usually independent. I was under the impression that you could invalidate individual claims of the patent, making them effectively unenforceable, even if the patent itself isn't thrown out. As long as you can invalidate all the claims that you're being sued over, that's good enough.

      Scenario (again, IANAL):

      You can claim "1. Suppose there is a round, disc-shaped object that can rotate freely on one axis" (aka a wheel). Obviously you can't patent the wheel, but people usually throw in as many claims as possible, even if some are completely obvious, and they don't affect the validity of later claims. Next, suppose your main claim is "2. A method for optimizing wheel traction using unobtainium, whereas 3. the wheel is coated using alternating strips of unobtainium, and 4. etc". Finally, suppose you throw in a claim, "16. The wheel gains a slight performance boost by injecting it with ice cream."

      Obvious, injecting the wheel with ice cream is a totally novel, if not particularly useful/practical, but most likely the claim you would try to enforce is the one about using unobtainium. If someone had to invalidate the ice cream claim too, it's highly unlikely they'd be able to kill the entire patent. But if only the ice cream claim remained, it wouldn't be a particularly useful patent.

    7. Re:Prior Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      First off, IANAL. I am a law student with IP and patent law classes under my belt, but I'm still just a law student. Take the following with a grain of salt.

      In a lot of the patent articles on Slashdot, where someone will ask "Isn't X prior art?" Often, even though it seems intuitively that it should be, it's not.

      Actual prior art, which would be sufficient to legally defeat a patent, must read on all of a patent's claims. Assume the patent in question has claims (basically, technical description of features) A, B, and C. You research patents, and you find older patents:

      Patent 1 has claims A and B.
      Patent 2 has claims B and C.
      Patent 3 has claims A and C.

      None of those will defeat the patent in question on prior art grounds, because none of them include all of the claims A, B, and C.

      What you may have at that point is an obviousness objection. You could argue that because there are patents 1-3 exist, that combining them to create A, B, and C was so obvious to someone skilled in the art that the patent should be invalidated for failing to be non-obvious. But that's different than prior art.

      Having a patent invalidated for prior art is actually pretty uncommon. Obviousness issues are more common, but often, it's cheaper to just settle.

      I think you may be confusing anticipation with prior art. Prior art can be anything that teaches an element of a claim. The combination of prior art makes an invention obvious. A single piece of prior art renders it anticipated. Iaapl (I am a patent lawyer).

    8. Re:Prior Art by Dragoon412 · · Score: 1

      I think you may be confusing anticipation with prior art. Prior art can be anything that teaches an element of a claim. The combination of prior art makes an invention obvious. A single piece of prior art renders it anticipated. Iaapl (I am a patent lawyer).

      You are, of course, correct.

      Open mouth, insert foot. I should be more careful about my own terminology before I go on trying to correct other people for theirs.

      How embarrassing.

      Hopefully people see this and mod my previous comment down.

    9. Re:Prior Art by theantipop · · Score: 1

      It seems you didn't pay close attention in your IP law class, but this only borders on the truth. In reality, a document can be considered prior art under one of a few different USC102 sections. These statutes basically define sets of documents based on their publish or made-available date, inventors or authors and so on. Now a given document may only read on one claim or even one limitation in a claim, but if that document qualifies as prior art it is fair game for use in an obviousness rejection. A document used in a 103 rejection is required to qualify as art under 102 as well so, yes, any art used in an obviousness rejection is still prior art.

    10. Re:Prior Art by notrandomly · · Score: 1

      it's the one phone on the market that is overwhelmingly not covered by this patent

      You mean showing the full web? Opera, Nokia and others did it ages before Apple, so the iPhone is definitely not "the one phone" not covered by the patent.

    11. Re:Prior Art by phayes · · Score: 1

      No need to be embarrassed, it's a complex subject which many of us would like to understand better and your posts have enlightened us somewhat. If you could explain what anticipated means in this context we would be further enlightened.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
  29. Re:Yet another patent troll by geobeck · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think Apple can come up with enough "prior artwork" for this one.

    Changing "prior art" to "prior artwork" paints an interesting picture of a potential courtroom exchange...

    "I would like to present Exhibit A, "Motherboard Descending a Staircase" by Ed Picasso, painted in January 2006. Despite its neo-cubist style, this work shows an example of "client hardware architecture" much more clearly than the patent troll--I mean, defendant's patent documents.

    --
    Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
  30. Does it really require a patent attorney? by Millennium · · Score: 1

    Does this even require a patent attorney? The patent is quite specific in that it depends on re-rendering an HTML site into XML. The iPhone browser does not do this; it renders the HTML directly. Thus, whether or not the patent is valid, I don't see how it could possibly apply to the iPhone.

    The patent is itself invalid, and should never have been granted. But in this case, it's not even relevant; it covers functionality the iPhone doesn't even have.

  31. Hmmm. by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

    The patent doesn't claim that representing a web site in XML is original. Instead, it seems to be claiming patent rights on a caching mechanism somewhat like the tiling scheme used in Google maps, except that instead of converting a map into a series of image tiles, they convert a web page into a series of tiles on the server. In Google Maps, this allows a huge document, if you will, to be served in bandwidth efficient chunks to support a responsive user interface.

    This tiling strategy is clearly not original, so the claim is for a mechanism for doing this by converting a web page, server-side, into an XML document, portions of which can be fetched (in cases of adjacent tiles preemptively) from the server, updating the display using DOM style manipulations. The HTML->XML transformation is used to try to convert a number of common practices, inventions:tiling and caching content, displaying advertisements in response to web page navigation events, doing said things on the server side or client side, doing it on mobile devices and set-top devices; doing it in response to voice command, doing it in response to keyboard entries, doing it in response to mouse clicks; allowing the user to zoom in on a tile, etc.

    The supposed secret sauce is converting an HTML web site into geometric tiles represented by XML. That's what's supposed to make this thing stick when thrown against the wall. Everything else in the patent is there to maximize the size of the blob sticking to the wall. Oh, yes and mumbo jumbo that makes the idea sound a lot more mysterious than it really is.

    I'm guessing that what they are going after is Apple's implementation of something analogous to tabbed browsing on the iPhone, an interface that has a coverflowish feel. The patent claims rights to using zooming/magnification with three dimensional representations of web sites created with their secret XML sauce. You can sort of imagine confusing the Safari interface with this if you had never seen it in action, but the inexplicable thing is that Apple isn't using the secret sauce of HTML-XML conversion to produce their interface. You can sort of imagine going after low end phone news and messaging browsers that use WML as looking something like the secret sauce in that it uses HTML to XML conversion, but it doesn't use it in the way specified by the secret sauce. And it's prior art.

    Basically, this is a worthless BS patent. Even if this were not BS, what it describes doesn't apply to the iPhone browser. They don't have any chance at all. So I can only speculate they're trying to hype the value of their "property" to attract stupid investors.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  32. What about the universal translator? by s-whs · · Score: 1

    Whether HTML to XML shouldn't matter, some webpage is modifed into another in some not too difficult way. I therefore assume the universal translator is prior art, and, much more fun:

    http://www.psyclops.com/translator/

    The linked article translated into

    pcworld article in skinhead

    Much better!

  33. a software patent suit filed in East Texas... by haaz · · Score: 1

    I'll have to visit the complainant the next time I'm in Tyler. (Which should be in January.) Somewhere I saw a scan of the filling, which looked like it was written on the back of napkins. I wouldn't have much confidence in the suit, but IAMNAL.

    --
    -- haaz.
  34. significantly scaled down by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

    The OS running on the iPhone vs. the OS running on a Mac is far more than "slightly scaled down."

    Have a look at an architectural overview. There's some pretty significant differences between the platforms

    1. Re:significantly scaled down by pohl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A debate about "slight" versus "significant" strikes me as silly. The page you linked to shows that the phone has a kernel that supports posix/BSD 4.4, and layered upon that are a lot of familiar APIs from the desktop version, with some things removed (printing, carbon,...) to reduce weight as appropriate for a mobile platform. UIKit is unique to the mobile version.

      One could make a case for calling this slight - especially if juxtaposed against the architectural differences between the desktop and mobile versions of Windows. The iPhone OS is essentially NeXTstep on my phone. Windows Mobile is nowhere near "NT on a phone". So, in comparison between the two pairs, it is slight.

      I suppose one could make a case for it being signifigant, as well -- but I'd be surprised if one could do it in a way that would undermine the validity of the other perspective. The page you linked to does as much to support "slight" as it does to support "significant".

      --

      The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...

  35. No sympathy for Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

    Apple has no problem using crappy intellectual property laws to hurt smaller players, so why should I care when they in turn are attacked?

    1. Re:No sympathy for Apple by notrandomly · · Score: 1

      Because if Apple falls, so will all other mobile browsers? It will set back internet access on your phone by many years.

  36. Re:Yet another patent troll by Cow+Jones · · Score: 1

    Changing "prior art" to "prior artwork" paints an interesting picture of a potential courtroom exchange...

    "I would like to present Exhibit A, "Motherboard Descending a Staircase" by Ed Picasso, painted in January 2006..

    Picasso? Does this make sense?
    No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!
    The defense rests.

    --

    Ah, arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari
  37. Ugh! Enough with the prior art, people! by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 1

    Software patents generally suck, but it's generally not because of "prior art".

    It's because the general trend of progress in this industry is to make small, incremental improvements on what exists. Patents are supposed to encourage big, radical (and *clearly radical) breakthroughs in technology.

    When you focus on prior art, you fall into an argumentative trap where the troll says "yes, $priorArt did A, B, C, D, E, and F .. but see! I added G! Them's tasty intellectual properties!"

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
  38. It's not about patents so much... by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

    ... as about people being encouraged to create bogus issues in order to harvest money.

    A previous poster cited the lawyer who filed this patent application as "dumbest fuck ever" but I feel reasonably confident he got paid to file the patent.

    I'd be surprised if there are not several members of the legal profession getting paid to decide this matter, including a judge.

    The legal system probably can't be trusted to stop these abuses, especially in jurisdictions that have actively encouraged this type of litigation. Quick; without looking it up, take a wild guess at which state the complaint will be filed in. I have not looked either, but even if it's being filed somewhere else, I bet most readers thought of the same place (perhaps even the same county)

    Even if all patents were eliminated, do you think that the bickering over IP would stop ? No; I read here another poster was concerned that some gray haired judge would not be able to see the truth for what it was.

    I would add to that concern about "rocket dockets" that have signaled a particular leaning toward litigants with money to spend in this way.

    Sure, patents could be much improved, but there are problem with the legal system too. Eliminating patents would not eliminate trumped up bogus legal proceedings that favor wealthy litigants.

    --
    Nullius in verba
  39. Re:Yet another patent troll by orlanz · · Score: 1

    Judge: "The court finds the term patent troll to be quite accurate, please do continue"

  40. ahahaha by ynohoo · · Score: 1

    patent troll, meet DMCA bully.
    DMCA bully, meet patent troll.

  41. Re:Looking to test Bilski? (mod parent up) by DreamCoder · · Score: 1

    Oh c'mon, mod parent up! That was funny :D.

  42. Prior art... by Gunark · · Score: 2, Funny

    I wrote software to do exactly this back in 2003. We took pages written in XHTML and ran an XSLT transform on them generating simplified XHTML for the then-primitive Blackberry browser.

    The idea was that we could write one rich user interface in XHTML, viewable through a regular web browser, and then used the XSLT transforms to degrade the interface for a simplified browser. This was supposed to be one of the miracles of XML. In practice of course it turned out to be more work than if we had just manually created a different set of pages.

    1. Re:Prior art... by Tribbles · · Score: 1

      I did this back in 1998, transcoding HTML into both simplified HTML, and also WML 1.0.

      However, like you, it was a lot of work to do this.

  43. such a clever innovation by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Glad I've only done it dozens of times myself before 2006.

  44. Apple: Victim of the Mortgage Market Meltdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come on government. Get our mortgage mess in check so that this Real Estate developer can go back to developing real estate. Lame.

  45. I don't think so by swillden · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm not a lawyer, or even a law student, but am an engineer who has worked under the direction of patent attorneys to evaluate patents to determine whether or not my employer's work infringed or whether we could demonstrate prior art.

    From my experience, patents consist of a series of claims that are independent and severable, except where they explicitly depend on one another. That is, a patent often consists of claims A, B and C, where B and C are both extensions of the idea in A.

    Each independent claim contains multiple elements, and for prior art to apply, or a technology to be infringing, ALL of the elements of a given claim have to apply. It is not, however, necessary for all of the CLAIMS in the patent to apply. If I have prior art that covers everything in claim C, then claim C is invalidated. Since claim C is an extension of claim A, then the prior art also contains everything in A and it is invalidated. But if B contains elements that are not in the prior art, then that portion of the patent stands.

    So far, this is consistent with what you said, but the point is that if B is the only claim left standing, then ONLY technologies that implement B can be infringing. So even when prior art doesn't completely invalidate a patent, it often dramatically pares down its applicability. Often to the point where it's a trivial matter to sidestep a patent.

    Having a patent invalidated for prior art is actually pretty uncommon. Obviousness issues are more common, but often, it's cheaper to just settle.

    True, but don't forget that prior art is often a key part of the settlement negotiations. If the alleged infringer can show prior art that would invalidate a large part of the patent, they can reduce the settlement to almost nothing. It's even been known to happen that in a case where the defendant has been able to come up with not only prior art but also some counter claims, that the plaintiff ends up paying a settlement to avoid having their patent dragged through court and invalidated.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  46. Another episode of Days of Our Patents by earlymon · · Score: 0, Troll

    Today's story is a huge plot twist in our continuing patent-troll soap opera:

    The tiling mobile browser is the illegitimate love child of EMG and JMBM. It just now got a copy of its birth certificate but its conception is sure to be disputed.

    (A few years ago, JMBM ran off with Dr. Michelson, to really get back at Michelson's former lover, Medtronics - but Michelson reconciled with Medtronics over the billion+ kongbucks from his collusion with JMBM. JMBM, feeling jilted but richer, found true love in the arms of EMG. Sources: see TFA and http://articles.latimes.com/2005/apr/23/business/fi-doctor23)

    EMG, with its tawdry mini-skirt at the top of its thighs and panties at half-mast, revealed itself as transexual - and needed someplace to stick it. (Here's the plot twist...) Jealous that no one takes a real estate firm seriously as a technology solutions developer, EMG raged and is attempting rape of a technology solutions developer whose name was derived from a piece of real estate.

    Next episode - thank your lucky stars that the tech firm wasn't from Southern California and didn't call themselves.... ORANGE!

    (Guest appearance by Bender as EMG, all other roles played by Calculon.)

    --
    Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
  47. Re:Yet another patent troll by tyrione · · Score: 1

    You object to Picasso, but not Ed?

  48. Even older by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Portals/Gateway to recompress and simplify content have existed for almost as long as slow analog modems have appeared as a way to connect to the Internet.

    Some even use more generic methods that the explicitely stated "HTML to XML".

    Also they claim to be able to generate "sister sites" (i.e.: present the same content in a different website). Looks exactly like what content aggregation is, except that they don't have an actual RDF/RSS/ATOM file to begin with but have to generate an XML on the fly.

    Lastly, mining HTML into XML is a common activity and I'm sure half of the /. readership have all already written such scripts. For as long as Perl has existed.

    (I even personally have a couple of such HTML to XML mining scripts. Some of them where even used on portable device. Some of which device are so old that the company have long been bankrupt before TFA's troll even started considering filing their patent)

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  49. simple by xoundmind · · Score: 1

    1. Lie that you invented something novel 2. ??? 3. Profit!

  50. Anybody remember WAP? by Quila · · Score: 1

    People were doing this in the 90s. WAP's WML was just a form of XML.

  51. Re:Yet another patent troll by Cow+Jones · · Score: 1

    You object to Ed, but not 2006? ;-)

    --

    Ah, arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari
  52. Re:Yet another patent troll by jonadab · · Score: 1

    I'd prefer Soft Construction with Boiled Capacitors: A Premonition of Browser Wars.

    --
    Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  53. look at the priority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Before you all get too upset, this application is older than you think.

    According to the patent, this patent is a continuation of U.S. patent application 09/518,015, filed Mar. 3, 2000, which is a continuation-in-part of U.S. Patent 6,600,497, filed Nov. 15, 1999.

    Any prior art must be older than March 3, 2000, and might need to be older than November 15, 1999, depending on whether a particular claim is shown in patent 6,600,497.

  54. Re:Futurama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "All civilization is just an effort to impress the opposite sex."

  55. Legal tort reform by zymano · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Make this bastard pay for the legal costs if he fails.

    Democrats love the present system.

    The PUBLIC pays. Thats right. Thats part of where our paychecks are WASTED.

  56. Opera Mini... by rizzo320 · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't this lawsuit be against Opera Mini, since they reformat through their own proxy server? As far as I know, the iPhone uses WebKit and does not modify pages in any way, other than scaling to screen size.

    I think these patents that specify "hand held device" are going to be extinct soon. The iPhone OS and Android are full blown operating systems, and the hardware they run on are more like handheld computers than anything else.

    1. Re:Opera Mini... by notrandomly · · Score: 1

      There were lots of proxy solutions before Opera Mini. And besides, the patent seems to talk about converting to XML, whereas Opera Mini uses some proprietary binary format (OBML) to send to the client.

  57. I think it fails on substance by Tjp($)pjT · · Score: 0, Redundant

    The Safari browser on the iPhone does not generate a sister site nor does Apple, so on the face of the claims this seems to be a grab a the deep pockets of Apple when current sentiment is to settle to avoid expenses of trials. It seems to me that the people opposing Apple in this matter are either ignorant of the way safari works on the iPhone or seek to broaden the already broad to the point of absurd claims of the patent to cover some hypothetical mechanism that could possibly be used for a browser for the iPhone. I hope the courts squash this quickly (even though the Texas court leans heavily in the favor of patent holders and seems to have a fairly high level of misunderstanding technology and lacks fair understanding of the state of the art). While some individual claims may in fact cover aspects of Safari's operation, those claims are overly broad and are restricted to appling to the prior claims cases and are subordinate to them. If Safari is held to violate this then almost all mobile phone browsers would be in violation simply because you can manually change the displayed portion of the web page at the broadest interpretation of the patent. So if you allow that Safari does violate this patent then all mobile browsers violate it, and thus those in existence prior to the earliest claimed priority can be shown as prior art. So in short, if this patent describes Mobile Safari, it also describes Prior Art and is invalid.

    Just my take on reading through the patent and applicable prior documents. And while I used to be paid for my opinions on such matters I did not do such due dilegence as to make this something I'd go into court with, but it seems Apple will have an easy case here and just have to spend an outrageous amount of money to defend itself since the honorable Texas Court is biased in eyes of most people in the field and thus is almost always the chosen venue for people to press such cases especially marginal ones or ones without technical merit.

    --
    - Tjp

    I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!

  58. i want to meets your seester... by Sfing_ter · · Score: 1

    Not at all obvious, obviosity is in the hole of the behinder. First off, real estate "professionals"== car salesmen.
    Second, they do not have "ideas", they, like micrososft, buy or steal them.
    Third, this holding company is a team of Douchebags, that is nothing but a front for patent trolling.
    Fourth invokes the LouisCK law: They must suck a bag of dicks.

    These guys are some of those that sit around all day dreaming of ways to get rich off of other peoples work. If they invested half the effort into actual work they would be on an island somewhere spankin it on the beach.

    --
    A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
    1. Re:i want to meets your seester... by tjscott · · Score: 1

      So you're saying, in essence, that Gottfurcht can Gettfurcht?

  59. Wow. by earlymon · · Score: 1

    OK - I expected to be modded down for maybe not funny enough...

    I have in my parent post attacked a patent troll, to vent my anger - and have been modded down as a troll.

    Wow. No, really - wow.

    --
    Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
  60. What they're patenting is like by mysidia · · Score: 1

    Patenting the use of IMAP to retrieve an e-mail message if that message can be displayed on a secondary device.

    HTML4 and XHTML That followed it were DESIGNED with the goal and one of the major objectives of device independence and portability in mind.

    There is nothing "novel", no "invention" in using a standard for one of its intended and well-publicized applicable purposes.

    The real-estate developer is essentially patenting use of the public standard in a very basic manner that the standard is expected to be used for by its designers.

    The "invention" involved in their patent is HTML and XHTML. So a group of protocol designers can spend YEARS and thousands of man hours, and hundreds of thousands of $$$ in resources to develop standards, BUT it's still perfectly permissible for a third-party to come up with a (clearly anticipated) use for those file formats, and patent it as novel???

    For over 3 years, it has been considered so important that the W3c has a working group dedicated to the objective of a device independent unified web.

    I'll patent the idea of using a Microsoft .DOC file to store a contract in.

    It's essentially a convenient document system that can be used for storing contracts. I can even include the concept of a program that can archive signed documents combined with use of a scanner that converts documents to .DOC or .PDF.

    Surely these are just as great inventions as using something like XSLTPROC to trim down a HTML document and render a reduced XHTML version.

  61. Abolish the patent system entirely. by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    The rationale for the existence of patents is to promote innovation by guaranteeing the inventor of a new technology the opportunity to profit from it.
                  The patent system has degenerated into a game that awards profits and damages to the person that can most aggressively or audaciously prevent other people from innovating. I don't just prior art; I mean patents that are extremely obvious and can be easily thought of.
                  This in turn causes a bottleneck as innovations are covered by blanket patents that prevent more than one company from even *researching* the field (and providing more innovation).

                  Yeah, yeah, "anything is obvious when it's been thought of" and "first-come first-served" and "intellectual property". That's not the point. Lose the preconceptions of the patent system as it is now and tell me: What is the point of protecting ideas in the first place? As above, to encourage people to have them. This does the opposite.
                  Instead of promoting innovation, the patent system stifles it. It was invented in a time when technology progressed more slowly and innovation did not pay as much as it now does. We have overtaken the patent system, and it slows us down. Let the inventors freely crib and copy each other. This will accelerate innovation because in the fast-moving world of today, second-hand inventions are worthless unless you improve on them.

  62. Citation needed by gr8scot · · Score: 1

    The general bias of this board seems to be anti-process patent. But with a great amount US GDP currently being derived from services and intellectual properties which include such processes, is there no benefit from awarding inventors if the only aspect of their invention is algorithmic in nature?

    The general opinion of this board, as I see it, is that process patents retard production, especially but not only innovative production, more than they advance it. Can you quantify the "great amount of US GDP currently derived from services and intellectual properties which include such processes"? Once you have, can you honestly claim that taking all those patent-enforced methodological [I will not call this farce "intellectual"] monopolies off the open market really reduces GDP?

    --
    All 19 hijackers were known terrorists 09-10-2001. Lack of FBI intelligence does not justify warrantless wiretaps..
  63. Yup - meets the transformation test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, because then you'd be "transforming an article" (the screwdriver) into an effectively different "article" (a web browser).

    IANAL - IAMA(L?)J [I am making a (lame?) joke]

  64. Re:Yet another patent troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude, I don't ever wanna see your fat motherboard descending a staircase in the nude. Your daughterboard, maybe.

  65. yet another suing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When will this stop?!?!? Some people have lots of money to throw away and make lawyers rich. What gives? Why not sue Microsoft for not making Word 2008 work well with Spaces in Leopard and traumatizing the heck out out of a poor defenseless teacher trying to write up an exam and flicking command tab forever and a day. Anybody want to lend me some money and take MS to court?

    Sorry but every time I see a "Apple sued for ****" it just irritates me. What's next? "Apple companies sue Apple for using the name Apple when it was originally patented by Adam and Eve in the garden?"

    Get a life!!! Then again...I should get a life for responding to this thread....oh well, I just wanted to say something.

  66. Sounds like... by ja4444 · · Score: 1

    Elliot Gottfurcht and Grant Gottfurcht are about to Gettfurcht by Apple.

  67. Re:Yet another patent troll by Grizzlysmit · · Score: 1

    I think Apple can come up with enough "prior artwork" for this one.

    Changing "prior art" to "prior artwork" paints an interesting picture of a potential courtroom exchange...

    "I would like to present Exhibit A, "Motherboard Descending a Staircase" by Ed Picasso, painted in January 2006. Despite its neo-cubist style, this work shows an example of "client hardware architecture" much more clearly than the patent troll--I mean, defendant's patent documents.

    You sir are a sick puppy lol :-P

    --
    in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that :-D
    Francis Smit
  68. Another stupid patent by GooberToo · · Score: 1

    on-line content reformatted from a webpage in a hypertext markup language (HTML) format into an extensible markup language (XML) format to generate a sister site.'

    I hold a patent for British English to American English translations. If you've ever watched a British show which used the word, "fag", and turned to a friend or family member and said, "cigarette", you owe me money. This patent is equally stupid and without merit. HTML is so close to XML it's sad and there has already been standardization efforts to create XML compliant HTML (XHTML). To make matters worse, they are using XML as intended so the patent is both obvious and as intended by the technology creators. Please find the patent agent which granted this patent and begin flogging him while forcing him to shoulder all legal costs to fight this patent which is woefully invalid.