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Diskeeper Accused of Scientology Indoctrination
touretzky writes "Two ex-employees have sued Diskeeper Corporation in Los Angeles Superior Court after being fired, alleging that the company makes Scientology training a mandatory condition of employment (complaint, PDF). Diskeeper founder and CEO Craig Jensen is a high-level, publicly avowed Scientologist who has given millions to his Church. Diskeeper's surprising response to the lawsuit (PDF) appears to be that religious instruction in a place of employment is protected by the First Amendment." The blogger at RealityBasedCommunity.net believes that the legal mechanism that Diskeeper is using to advance this argument ("motion to strike") is inappropriate and will be disallowed, but that the company will eventually be permitted to present its novel legal theory.
I guess it is Raxco's PerfectDisk to defrag my disks from now on....
Isn't that religious discrimination in the workplace? Seems like a cut and dried case to me. I'm sure the Co$ will lawyer up and try to fight it, but I don't see how they could possibly win this case.
They can fire you, at will, for any LEGAL reason.
Discrimination based upon religious preference is NOT a legal reason.
At will does not mean "anything they do is legal, you can just leave." It merely means that there is no implied contract about severance or notice.
There's one product I won't be buying anymore. Oh, and before you start, I worked for a company that tried to pull that indoctrination stuff on employees, until several people threatened them with the 'L' word and a few more quit nearly putting the company OOB. They stopped it fast.
Sig this!
Under title VII, they will lose. Unless the Supreme Court declares Title VII unconstitutional with respect to the 1st Amendment, of course, which they might since the new ones are a bunch of religious fundamentalists. The 1st Amendment does not give anyone a right to impose their religion on others as a condition of employment. http://www.eeoc.gov/types/religion.html
It is going to boil down to technicalities about whether Scientology practice (or "tech") is actually a religious experience, or just a workplace management strategy. Scientology has gotten very good at dancing across that line when it suits them.
When it's time to hand out tax exemptions, they're an association of faith. When they're incorporating Dianetics into secular practices, it's just a communications, planning, and skill development regiment.
DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
That as the law stands today, it is a flagrant violation of the civil rights act... 'At will' doesn't cover it legally.
Basically, Diskeeper would have to get this case before the Supreme Court to change the law. They have admitted point blank they are in violation of the law.
I'm surprised they ever agreed to work in such a crackpot place to begin with though. I would prefer to find a competitor and watch their sorry asses fail.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Diskeeper is not a country club. It's not some sort of fraternal organization of old men in funny hats.
It is a COMPANY. It EMPLOYS People.
Religious preferences, or training has nothing at all to do with the ability to program software. So it's not like some big hairy dude getting mad since the strip club won't let him on the pole.
The laws are extraordinarily clear about this. You cannot base your decisions on whether to employ somebody, or to continue employing them based on religion. The 1st Amendment does not apply here. Last time I checked PEOPLE, NOT CORPORATIONS enjoyed constitutional protections such as the 1st Amendment.
It's a novel argument, but it won't last 60 seconds in court.
Here's the EEOC's official position-
http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/religion.html#_Toc203359505
That's less than 2 minutes googling. But somehow I still think hundreds of thousands of dollars will be spent figuring that out...
Good to know, that means I won't have to hire Blacks, cripples or homosexuals either.
Oh wait, that's not how it really works now is it?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
If only the cult members could be let in on the joke!
.... Wikipedia has a list of software that defragments disks. Take out Diskeeper and you have a bunch of options. Nothing changes behaviour like the loss of sales.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Quite funny the results that come up when you search for l. ron hubbard and scientology on the diskeeper website http://www.diskeeper.com/Site-Search/SearchDestination.aspx?cx=002880524605280650330:dou154_yxny&cof=FORID%3A9;NB:1&ie=UTF-8&q=scientology&sa=Search and http://www.diskeeper.com/Site-Search/SearchDestination.aspx?cx=002880524605280650330:dou154_yxny&cof=FORID%3A9;NB:1&ie=UTF-8&q=hubbard&sa=Search Still i dont think he's advertising the religion enough with his software, surely it should have an "endorsed by church of scientology" banner etc. and maybe free coupons for their software if they convert or something.
Some people don't feel they need to behave unless there is an omniscient parental figure monitoring their every thought. Essentially a large group of people never progressed beyond childhood. They are just children with a job and a mortgage.
When referring to Scientology as a "church", please put quotes around the word "church".... because, well... it's not.
Anyone who says otherwise is either stupid, or lying... and, if you disagree with this then you must be, by definition, complicit in their crimes.
A friend of mine use to work there an always complained to me about the internal scientology efforts. He eventually left the company because they where driving him nuts.
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
Diskeeper founder and CEO Craig Jensen is a high levelI, publicly avowed Scientologist who has given millions to his Church ...but we're repeating ourselves...
Diskkeeper's contention seems to rely on the First Amendment to the Constitution, which is a higher law than the one you cite. It doesn't matter what state or federal law says if that law violates the employer's constitutional rights.
Now whether the employer actually has a constitutional right to force his employees to take Scientology classes is up for debate, but you can't win that debate by citing any number of lower laws.
Oh, God, the irony, Google Ads gave me a 'What is Scientology?' video from scientology.org.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
they are confusing their right to free speech as the right to force people to listen - sure they can hold all the scientology sessions they want, but employee's shouldn't be forced to go and it shouldn't be allowed to impact on their jobs.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Last time I checked PEOPLE, NOT CORPORATIONS enjoyed constitutional protections such as the 1st Amendment.
Hate to burst your bubble, but there have been several court decisions stating the corporations do indeed have freedom of speech protections granted by the first amendment. This is because corporations are considered to be legal "persons". Don't think this will help Diskeeper.
The "link" (however security-audited and tested) that was entirely removed for Server 2008/Vista? Really?
Christ, freetard. Get a grip.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
How ironic it would be if the guy who attributes his success to Scientology, kills his company's sales through forcing it to be taught to his employees. ;p
While working at a place may have you end up with forced Scientology indoctrination, I really don't think a file system is going to make you kill your wife.
Of course if avoiding the taint of Hans Reiser is how you choose a file system, perhaps you've never left the basement ;)
About two years after high school, I started working for a local office supply business as a low-level manager. The owners, all of the upper staff, and most everyone else were Scientologists. They never SAID anything about the training manuals being Scientology, but that is exactly what they were, and, of course, we were forced to study them and pass the tests. They never actively tried to recruit me or make me go to one of their churches/meetings/whatever (though it was mentioned politely a couple times) and didn't discuss it too much, but the manuals were enough to make it clear: Scientology was the way to move up in the company. I played the game for a while and did well there while managing to not become brain-washed, but, eventually, I had to bail. I'm a patient, easy going guy, but I could only take so much of their pseudo-scientific, pseudo-psychological, pseudo-religious cult junk before blowing a fuse.
What I want to know is, if Scientology was the key to success, why then did the business fail? That company no longer exists. :)
I hope this comment is well received... I could have moderated instead!
Persecutors will be violated!
I have always felt that religion in the workplace should be forbidden as it creates a hostile work environment. I have always felt this, but I have never known this to be fact. It will be interesting to watch. Personally, I always feel uncomfortable when certain company meetings begin with prayer... if Scientology were required training, I'd be even more uncomfortable.
> Last time I checked PEOPLE, NOT CORPORATIONS enjoyed constitutional protections such as the 1st Amendment.
Hold on... Are you telling me that corporations can't get married.
I guess the wedding is off.
How am I going to break the news to my family?
Worse, how is my true love going to break the news to her board of directors?
Of course if avoiding the taint of Hans Reiser is how you choose a file system, perhaps you've never left the basement ;)
Good for you.
It's a bold statement to admit to voluntarily seeking out another man's taint to choose a filesystem.
Me? I'm old-fashioned. I spread my cheeks and lift my sac.
have you checked the code for OCA personality tests?
It's not about fate, it's about character.
there be no shelter here, the frontline is everywhere!
I've been a Diskeeper customer for several years. Every year around Christmas time (excepting this year), I've received a Christmas card from them containing an L. Ron Hubbard quote. I've always been slightly annoyed by this, as I'm no Scientology fan, but I've put up with it because I haven't been able to find a suitable replacement for their Undelete software. http://www.undelete.com/ If someone can recommend a good replacement, I'd be happy to ditch them.
My own experience with Diskeeper.
This was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. I showed up for an interview at the L.A offices in 2002 or 2003. At the time I knew almost nothing of the COS. I did know that my current boss was from a family of hard-core COS followers. This was one of my last interviews of my "junior years". I'm un-ease, eager to please, eager to get a new job, dare I say, very impressionable.
So here I am waiting in the lobby. Looking around I see a row of huge books (10-12 inches tall), from L. Ron Hubbard, known to me only as a sci-fi writer, and I love sci-fi. Each book had titles related to good management, personal growth and similar stuff. More books a bit further, too far to see the titles. A picture of LRH was hanging on a wall in the back. Something was strange.
I meet the RH person, after a few nice words; the conversation turns on to Dianetics, how incredibly great it is, how it would help me like it helped others, and how we all owe it to the great LRH, and how incredible he was. I nod my head and am somewhat curious.
After some small talk, I am asked to do a quick personality test. I heard before that many businesses do this, but it was the first time for me. The questions where a bit strange, not quite like the personality test from high-school. Once done I gave it back and the HR "corrects it" on the spot in front of me. I then receive strange comment about some strength, and others I will need to improve.
I then get a quick tour of the place, where I am told that every new employee gets a free (and mandatory) "3 day seminar" on the week-end before they start working. After that the employees must stay at the office several evenings for a few hours for at least a month (less often after that) to receive evaluations and more "training". They really want to keep people educated to the latest technology was my thought.
More small talk walking around. Back to the lobby, "We will call you soon for another meeting. Once home, curious about that test I hit Google with some of the questions I remembered from the test.
I was in shock! I studied COS the entire week-end and felt violated in my intellectual integrity. Looking back at it, this was clearly some attempt to enrol me into COS. The test is a sham, not recognize by any real professional in any science. Many claim it's purposely design for failure, you need help and guess who will help you.
Reading on I realized that almost every phrase I heard was to lure me into COS. The "free 3 day seminar" coukd only be the horrible COS spirit breaking seminar used to bring new sheep in. The following evenings of reviews were for COS audits.
I started to be angry. I read that like many cults they use these seminars to manipulate people in despair looking for help. I quickly understood that depressed by a boring job I was in the right state of mind to be a victim. Now I was just mad.
Worst part was, the more I read on scientology and "audits" treatment, the more I realized my current boss (from a family of COS) was using these tactics at work. Making you feel like crap, incompetent, never doing any good work, so when he asked anything we would all comply ASAP. At least it was a wake up call, I changed job, realized how good I really am, and hated the COS ever since ... and it's personal.
> Hold on... Are you telling me that corporations can't get married.
Well, certainly not gay corporations.
Something backward about this. :P
The official reasons for firings vary, but the unwritten reason is almost always "I don't like you," "I've lost confidence in your ability to do the job," or "You are too big a liability to the company."
You may do your job well and not steal, but if you boss doesn't like you...
Your boss may like you and you may not rob the company blind, but if you constantly miss reasonable deadlines...
Your boss may like you and you may do your work well, but if you were caught at home snorting coke and your employer's name was on the 5 o'clock news...
That probably covers 99% of individual firings and targeted "layoffs." Un-targeted layoffs are another matter.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Evangelical Christians have been doing this for years. You've either 'found Jesus' or you're out. And complaining about a hostile workplace can work both ways. The Christians can claim a hostile environment is being created by those of other faiths in their workplace.
Have gnu, will travel.
So what you are saying is that my Hard Drive isn't fragmented; it's really full of Body Thetans?
Sh*t!
I better get an audit soon, so I can get my OSX to be OT-5.... Thank the FSM that my Linux install is already "clear"!
I for one welcome a Hard-Drive overlord - but sorry, I have to denounce Xenu.
(sorry, couldn't resist...)
Politics will sooner or later make fools of everybody... - Dick Armey
IANAL, but if I had to guess...
Diskeeper is probably arguing from Corporation of Presiding Bishop v. Amos. A gym open to the public but affiliated with the Church of Latter Day Saints fired a janitor who wasn't a Mormon. The janitor sued, arguing the exemption for religious organizations from Title VII of the Civil Rights Act (prohibiting religious discrimination in employment) violated the establishment clause of the 1st amendment. IIRC, the Church argued that this exemption was a permissible accommodation of the Church's free exercise rights under the 1st amendment. The Supreme Court agreed with the Church.
The problem is, Diskeeper isn't a religious organization, so they don't qualify for the statutory exemption in Title VII. While religious instruction in the workplace may or may not be lawful, making continued employment dependent on religious instruction in a particular faith almost certainly is unlawful.
Hopefully Diskeeper goes down at the summary judgment stage, if not on a motion to dismiss.
On top of being the developers of all but the newest defrag that comes with Windows, the Diskeeper branded version of Diskeeper light came pre-installed on my Thinkpad T60.
Oh, I can see it now: KB111666: Thetans cause random restarts.
A religion does two things: Prays to God, and passes the collection basket.
Scientology is not a religion.
Alcoholics Anonymous is a religion.
Tag lost or not installed.
So how much of Linux was programmed by avowed Scientologists? Christian fanatics? Or other types of people who some others might not like?
Will we really want to split up the world along such kinds of lines?
It's because Google Ads are driven by keywords on whatever page it's attached to, so that the ads are more "targeted" than just coming up at random. We're discussing Scientology, and Scientology has Google Ads, so the (ahem) "appropriate" *cough* ads show up.
Tag lost or not installed.
Trust me, both you and Apple are happier this way. She was cheating on you with Office-for-Mac anyway.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
In a civilized country this "church" would be declared to be a criminal organization, banned, and its leaders would be prosecuted for fraud, extortion and other obviously illegal activities -- all without a need for a single complaint or a civil lawsuit because this is what police and criminal courts are for.
However in US, where people value "freedom" (the American version of "freedom" that means "you can get away with anything as long as you are rich enough"), they would rather pretend, it's all perfectly normal, and instead chase pot smokers and random Arabs.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
You should pay higher taxes if you don't have any black friends.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Is there any evidence that they rewrote the defrag engine rather than just the UI? I vaguely recall hearing that Vista's defrag tool was just a new UI on the same core.
No, not a fork. Microsoft bought a very limited version of Diskeeper for use with its products.
I personally don't care if the developer killed his wife or not - if the filesystem works, it works.
While working at a place may have you end up with forced Scientology indoctrination, I really don't think a file system is going to make you kill your wife.
However, I'd say that a program with a root-level access to the disk made by a Scientologist is a risky thing to have on your computer. While the CoS has officially abandoned their Fair Game doctrine, I would not go so far as to assume it is completely abandoned in practice. Maybe I'm paranoid, but techincally, the moment you oppose them, your data may be theirs. It's not like we can inspect the source.
Ignore this signature. By order.
The very first version of Diskeeper (for Windows NT 3.5, at a time MSFT claimed, just as a lot of ext3 users still do nowadays (ahem..), that NTFS did not require any defragmentation) had very obvious references to Scientology and Ron Hubbard plastered about everywhere (about box, help files, I seem to remember -- but forgive me, that was 14+ years ago -- a page in the help file "about Scientology" or "about Dianetics" or something. It got quickly toned town when they cut the deal with MSFT, something like MS gets the low-level code to integrate into NT's API, but they keep it a bit quieter.
Funny to see that shit bite them back now.
PS: oh, and that copy of Diskeeper sure helped my 3.5 box a helluva way, at the time. Nefarious loonies they are, but they did cause the state of arts and crafts to advance a bit, for which credit is due to them.
Full disclosure: I am anti-Scientology, and generally anti-religion. If your imaginary friend is easily offended, maybe you should scroll past my humble paragraphs.
I've noticed many of the Scientology defenders cite the religion as helping with some challenge in their life, most often drug addiction, adultery or gambling. I don't know the method by which this assistance is administered, but I would say it is a good thing. What's not so good is how they turn around and bash psychology for essentially doing the same thing for less money.
The big problem is that this "help" is the value-add in their business model. They put a band-aid on your pathetic self-control issues, then sell you a religion before the buzz wears off, and they seem to pitch it so well that their converts truly believe it to be the "One True Way", and that everyone else is wrong and stupid... you know, like every other religion.
What the Diskeeper guy could/should be doing, rather than illegally coercing everyone to join in his quackery, is condense the relevant "teachings" he considers essential to his business into formal documentation, be it a management book or 1-2-3 day training seminar. If he wants to be another Cruise/Travolta trainwreck, that's his choice to make, but to force others down the same path is vile and short-sighted.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Ahem... If I were to walk into, say, a predominately black church, stand at the pulpit and say "Water is wet, niggers!" my 'correctness' would not even slightly dampen the raw power of trollishness that I have just unleashed.
When are you insecure nerds (I'm a secure nerd, myself) going to learn that being smart and being a douchbag don't go hand in hand, nor does being right excuse unnecessarily rude behavior. People like to joke that nerds can't get girls, but it's just not true. Nerds can get girls, but nerds who've never bothered to spend even an ounce of thought about social graces don't get along with much of ANYBODY (especially girls), except similar people who are willing to overlook your social ineptitudes out of sheer loneliness.
BTW, this applies to that "I'm going to be so helpful and easy to push over she'll HAVE to love me" train of thought too, which is a thought that most people would easily see the flaw in, if they bothered to spend the effort thinking about it.
In short, anyone who can successfully manage memory in C should EASILY be able to discern at least basic social rules and strategies. Slinging terms like 'freetard' because someone is misinformed about a recent development in some obscure topic is 10x the fail of getting the fact wrong in the first place.
I don't know how it is around your family and friends, but in THIS place, you're not the brightest bulb in the box, there are many bright bulbs here. Random insults at strangers on the internet don't make you look cool, or too smart for the rest of us, or 'leet' or whatever you're going for, it makes you look immature. The GP was troll, flamebait and informative all in one, but I would argue that it's more of the first one than it is the last.
You know what the fun thing is? I agree with you.
I did not call NeverVotedBush a freetard because he was "uninformed." I called him a freetard because he is very much exemplifying the knee-jerk, "MUST TIE EVERYTHING INTO WHY WINDOWS SUCKS" attitude that pervades a very large part of Slashdot. The groupthink that anything even peripherally related to Windows or Microsoft, whether or not it still applies, is--well, more or less precisely that: the act of a freetard. It's a behavior pattern, not simply a pejorative.
And for what it's worth, I agree with you regarding insecure nerds. My fiancee might suggest that it doesn't quite apply to me, though. ;-) Or, at least, not IRL, and I don't consider being pointed and aggressive online to be a mark of security or insecurity. I have no real issue with being as pointed as the situation warrants--and given that the person I replied to is more or less a troll himself, "very pointed" was the order of the day. You'll notice that in speaking to you, to another poster who writes with a degree of eloquence and intelligence, I'm making a concerted effort to be respectful and explain my position. "NeverVotedBush" does not rate that, and so I did not do so. :-)
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
would you expect promotion from a $cientology-based organization to include anything but non-fact based opinion?
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
It seems to be that falsely claiming you are officially abandoning your Fair Game doctrine would be perfectly fine under the Fair Game doctrine.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Your employer cannot imprison you. No really, they can't. The only power your employer has over you, the ONLY power, is terminating your voluntary association. Yeah, it sucks getting fired. But it sucks breaking up too, but I don't see too many people lobbying to pass laws requiring girlfriends to give thirty days notice before dumping their asses.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!