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Dell's XPS 730x Core I7 Gaming System Reviewed

MojoKid writes "Shortly after Intel released their new Core i7 processors about a month ago, Dell announced a new update to the XPS 730 with Core i7 tech under the hood. The new Dell XPS 730x is first and foremost a technology update but the chassis has also been buffed up a bit. The Intel Core 2 processor and NVIDIA 790i Ultra SLI chipset powering the original XPS 730 line have been swapped with the new Core i7 processor and an Intel X58 Express chipset based motherboard. The XPS 730x retains the original 730's ability to support both Crossfire and SLI multi-GPU graphics. Like all XPS 700 series machines since the XPS 710, the XPS 730x is available with optional factory overclocking and a H2C edition featuring a two-stage liquid cooling system. And yes, it rips through Crysis quite nicely and puts up rather impressive benchmark numbers."

171 comments

  1. Oblig. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Maybe it will actually run Vista!

    1. Re:Oblig. by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 4, Informative

      News for nerds: Throwing a ridiculous shitload of money at a vendor will buy you a fast machine. Film at 11.

    2. Re:Oblig. by Anthony_Cargile · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, but only to use the extra RAM and processing time to "cache" all of the crap you never use, and to help index your hard drive since apparently us users can never seem to remember where we put anything despite the fact we get a UAC prompt if we choose to save anything outside of our home directory.

      And lets see how well the SLI/Crossfire graphics cards run games while also being called by the desktop window manager and and explorer to redraw aero effects constantly. And by the way, you're paying an assload of money for all of this too, including another crappy chassis.

      </rant>

    3. Re:Oblig. by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, but only to use the extra RAM and processing time to "cache" all of the crap you never use

      I'm confused, you'd rather Windows just didn't do anything with the extra memory and processing power? If you really don't want you hard drive indexed, you can turn off indexing. The memory used to cache frequently used programs is reallocated when necissary, don't let the little graph in the task manager fool you into thinking you don't have enough memory just because your memory is actually being used for a change.

      And lets see how well the SLI/Crossfire graphics cards run games while also being called by the desktop window manager and and explorer to redraw aero effects constantly.

      Aero is automatically disabled when running any full screen game. If you really hate it that badly, disable it.

      Vista has a lot of problems. Having features that many people like, which can be disabled by those who don't, isn't one of them. The only valid complaint you make, in my opinion, is obnoxious UAC prompts.

    4. Re:Oblig. by HAKdragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The only valid complaint you make, in my opinion, is obnoxious UAC prompts.
       
      ..which can also be turned off.

      --
      "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
    5. Re:Oblig. by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      ..which can also be turned off.

      Slight problem there. As techies, we'll work on Vista machines more than actually installing the damn thing for ourselves. As such, do you really want to turn off UAC on some luser's PC? Much as I hate to give MS any credit, UAC actually does help a little bit. And if you troubleshoot MS machines for a living, every little bit helps.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    6. Re:Oblig. by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The only valid complaint you make, in my opinion, is obnoxious UAC prompts.

      Which is also pretty groundless, since generally speaking UAC prompts appear for the same reasons, and with similar frequency, as sudo prompts on Linux or Windows.

      And you can even turn them off, if you want to expose yourself to more risk.

    7. Re:Oblig. by Retric · · Score: 1

      Vista tends to swap memory to disk that's "stale" so it replaces stuff I want in memory with files that help programs load faster. This is stupid, I would like to quickly tab to something I opened 3 hours ago no reload it from disk. I don't care about programs I might at some point use I want the 5 programs I am using right now to all say in ram. I have a tun of ram I would like to be able to use it vs. swapping stuff out to free up memory I might want to load some other application.

    8. Re:Oblig. by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Since you appear to dislike any "pretty" desktop-type stuff, RAM swapping, indexing, etc., you would be a perfect candidate to use Linux and rain down your hate upon Compiz, KDE, Beagle, and GUIs in general. After all, it's a waste of that awfully expensive $25-for-4GB RAM.

      Meanwhile, some of us may enjoy having a cool looking desktop. If the OS actually interferes with your foregrounded tasks by doing cpu, ram, or disk intensive background tasks, that's a problem. But it sounds like you are conjecturing that it does that because it's obviously a horrible product because it was made by Microsoft, as opposed to an open source community.

      On the other hand, I know firsthand that Linux's X windows system/KDE, especially wiht something like Compiz, pretty much uses as much RAM as it can, because RAM does NO GOOD if it is sitting empty. Why can't Windows do that?

      I don't like Vista, either, much prefer XP, and like Linux (albeit I prefer SuSE over RedHat, but use both at work), but let's critique OS's on an equal level, without the preconceived it-has-to-be-bad-because-it's-Microsoft junk...

    9. Re:Oblig. by benjymouse · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It would be stupid if it was correct. However, that is why Vista also has a unique memory priority feature. It is exactly to ensure that a process with lower priority memory requirements (such as the cache, readyboost, disk defrag, defender etc) does *not* page out normal priority memory. What's stupid is how some people are all prepared to make all kind of assumptions about Vista and then use those - often false - assumptions to knock it.

      --
      Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
    10. Re:Oblig. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ugh. If you are going to rant about Vista, at least pick reasonable problems to bitch about (lots of them exist). If you really thing searching is bad, or that windows is redrawing aero during a game... whatever. why am I responding to you?

    11. Re:Oblig. by gparent · · Score: 1

      Since you apparently know nothing about Vista, here's a few things you might want to know:

      -The extra memory that caches all the crap you never use is freed if it is required. Which means it's used only to speedup your computer, and you won't notice the microsecond it takes to free it.

      -The hard drive indexing can be turned off. Windows XP has a similar feature, this isn't new.

      -Redrawing aero effects doesn't happen when you're running a fullscreen game. If you launch Half-Life 2 for example, aero will idle until you alt-tab back in, and thus there is no loss of performance.

      No problem! Glad I could get some myths out of your head!

    12. Re:Oblig. by nedlohs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's not stupid as such, it's the standard human thought process for making decisions which is:

      1. Make a decision based on what you feel or what other people tell you to decide.
      2. Find evidence that supports your decision, ignore evidence that counters it.
      3. If there isn't much evidence make some up so you don't look stupid for making the wrong decision.

      Nothing to do with Vista, or Microsoft, just the usual method of thinking.

    13. Re:Oblig. by gparent · · Score: 1

      Oh and before you pull the "Vista fanboy" card, I use Windows XP, Gentoo and Ubuntu at home. I don't randomly insult stuff I know nothing about, though.

    14. Re:Oblig. by mad_cat_elite · · Score: 1

      Believe it not, nerds may be the target audience, but nerds don't buy these kinds of computers. Generally it is old people who buy these kinds of computers.

      Basically it comes down to, the more money a computer it is, the assumption that there will be less wrong with it. Unfortunately, the opposite is true when it comes for computers.

    15. Re:Oblig. by Anthony_Cargile · · Score: 1

      Lets get something straight. I bought my laptop with 1GB of RAM/1.6Ghz dual core proc in late 2006, and it came with Vista. It was absolutely unusable after about a month, so I started disabling Indexing, aero (then reverting to classic), tweaking registry values and paging options, and defragging daily. Still terrible responsiveness.

      So I upgraded to 2GB of RAM, and damn if Vista still took its own sweet time doing anything.

      After months of this, I gave up and tried Ubuntu 8.04 via Wubi, and not only did it have incredible speed, but the out-of-the-box compiz effects were astonishing, and later I would roll out the cube, wobbly windows, zoom etc. for no performance hit whatsoever.

      Fast forward to now: Vista is gone from my laptop, I triple boot Ubuntu 8.10, Mac OS X Leopard (hackintosh), and Solaris 10. My Ubuntu installation runs almost the entire plethora of compiz plugins, which run incredible on the exact same hardware vista abused, and even running Windows XP in a 384MB RAM virtual machine on top of said Ubuntu has absolutely no performance loss whatsoever, even after coming out of suspension or hibernation, something Vista took literally 45 minutes to do with just a word document open.

      In a nutshell, I love graphics, but I'm not willing to lose productivity over them, and Linux/compiz gives 100% better graphics for an iota of the overhead Aero/Vista in general needs. If Windows 7 (6.1) outperforms Vista as I've seen its betas do (in virtual machines running on top of Ubuntu) then I might consider installing it for good in a VM in the same manner as I've done Windows XP since Vista ruins performance in both virtual machines and right on top of the bare metal.

    16. Re:Oblig. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm more likely to believe you damaged your performance by tweaking registry values and paging options than anything vista did. I've seen Vista run fine on 2 GB of memory.

    17. Re:Oblig. by Blue+Stone · · Score: 1

      Indexing on Vista = goodthing.

      winkey + first [couple of] letter[s] of anything you're looking for and .. you're there.

      It's not about remembering, it's about speed.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    18. Re:Oblig. by lactose99 · · Score: 1
      And by the way, you're paying an assload of money for all of this too, including another crappy chassis.

      Actually the chassis looked to be one of the better pieces from what I read in the article. It does look a little rice-y but it fits standard ATX motherboards so future upgrades can continue to use it. It also has internal LED lighting so you don't need to fumble around with a flashlight when working inside the case (powered by 2-AA batteries so the chassis power can be disconnected, as it should be anytime the case is opened).

      While its way too overpriced for me and my relatively-simplistic PC needs, the case seems to have gotten a bit of innovation (Dell adopting a standard ATX form-factor case incredibly innovative is FOR THEM considering their previous track record).

      --
      Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
    19. Re:Oblig. by Deltaway · · Score: 0

      Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!

    20. Re:Oblig. by billcopc · · Score: 3, Informative

      While it is a ridiculous shitload of money, I did a quick cost comparison and it's actually a pretty good deal considering what's it in. Sure, you get the semi-sucky Dell versions of everything, which means a blah motherboard, blah (underclocked?) graphics card and a "1000w power supply" that competes with 700w models from Antec or Seasonic (same shit really), but you would have a hard time building an equivalent system for that kind of money, and you certainly won't get any kind of warranty from online dealers.

      I hate to say it, but if you're in the market for a $5000 beast, this one ain't so bad. That said, if you're still somewhat sane you could build a rig that yields 90% of the performance for less than half the price, but clearly some people just have to have that last 0.2 ghz for $1500 more.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    21. Re:Oblig. by SirCowMan · · Score: 1

      Ideally, the UAC prompts would only occur as per sudo prompts on a *nix system; however, it is a degree easier to su in a terminal and get what you need done under *nix, and Vista has a truckload of problems with historical file placements. For example, trying to re-arrange the start menu so it's not a disaster will run up UAC prompts atleast once per attempted move.

      --
      !Equality through palindromes semordnilap hguorht ytilauqE!
    22. Re:Oblig. by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

      we choose to save anything outside of our home directory.

      Or you use external drives or have a home network with other systems holding documents, or are in a business environment where you have vast network shares of documents dating back decades.

      I have a couple external 500gb drives and a lot of network shares locally and remotely, and searching a few million documents in a couple of seconds is quite nice, especially when the servers or peer clients do the heavy lifting and you are just querying their search database...

      Just my personal external drive has close to 750,000 documents indexed, with emails and documents going back to the 80s.

      Needless to say on my OS X machine, when you get Spotlight into +200,000 documents, the results are neither instant nor is the performance of moving or changing indexed items very impressive. I can't even imagine doing a few million documents on OS X...

    23. Re:Oblig. by argiedot · · Score: 1

      Is it just me who treats the C:/Users/Username/ subdirectory as a Home folder? What exactly about UAC is a problem? It does exactly what I would expect it to. When I'm messing with stuff outside my Home folder it warns me. When I'm installing software, it asks me for permission. Frankly, I think it's sound. The only thing that got on my nerves is that the bloody Java updater displays this little notification when it has found a new version, and you have to aim at the 'x' exactly or the bloody thing will pop up two UAC prompts trying to update. God!

      That said, I don't use Windows any more because Windows Update and friends are stupid, inconsistent and shoddily made. But frankly, UAC has never been a problem.

    24. Re:Oblig. by Retric · · Score: 1

      That might be how it was designed but that's not how it was implemented. Look I am a coder I can see what's in ram and on disk while using vista and it's broken.

      PS: It's not all about fast boot the OS wants to keep RAM free so you can quickly allocate memory without swapping which is a good idea, but if I open a 24 hour old tab it's not in memory even if I have 2GB of free ram. I think the bug has something with not loading back stuff that's been swapped out in favor of the ready boost crap.

    25. Re:Oblig. by UncleTogie · · Score: 1

      Which is also pretty groundless, since generally speaking UAC prompts appear for the same reasons, and with similar frequency, as sudo prompts on Linux or Windows.

      I'd have to say the big difference 'tween a sudo prompt and UAC would be that any monkey or three-year-old can click an icon and then a button. Might take 'em a bit longer to get past my password.

      That's gotta be my biggest gripe with UAC: without the use of a password, it can't even secure a PC from a click-happy granny from out of town.

      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
    26. Re:Oblig. by Repossessed · · Score: 1

      In my experience, Vista keep caching long after you've gone to paging file. (Or did, its possible MS fixed this) Even if all it does is move the cache to the paging file, thats still a waste of resources, especially since disk I/O is a big bottleneck.

      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    27. Re:Oblig. by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's gotta be my biggest gripe with UAC: without the use of a password, it can't even secure a PC from a click-happy granny from out of town.

      Which is not what it's meant to do.

      If you really want to, you can configure UAC to prompt for a password (and even a username). In typical scenarios, however, it adds nothing.

    28. Re:Oblig. by bdenton42 · · Score: 1

      generally speaking UAC prompts appear for the same reasons, and with similar frequency, as sudo prompts on Linux or Windows.

      I can't believe it's anywhere near the same frequency.

      The equivalent of sudo mkdir "c:\Program Files\MyDir" in Vista is this:

      navigate to Program Files
      right click, click create new directory
      UAC prompt - click allow
      UAC prompt - click allow
      right click, click rename, enter "MyDir"
      UAC prompt - click allow
      UAC prompt - click allow

      IMO that is three UAC prompts more than it should be.

    29. Re:Oblig. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you mean Mac, I believe Microsoft stole Apple's prompt pretty much exactly as it appears.

    30. Re:Oblig. by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      The equivalent of sudo mkdir "c:\Program Files\MyDir" in Vista is this:

      Something's wrong with your Vista install. On my system it prompts once, and the directory's name can be changed immediately.

    31. Re:Oblig. by bdenton42 · · Score: 1

      Something's wrong with your Vista install. On my system it prompts once, and the directory's name can be changed immediately.

      Interesting. My installation is a generic Dell one.

      Perhaps this is a difference between base Vista and SP1?

      For whatever reason I'm still not allowed to update to SP1, so I'm not able to verify this.

    32. Re:Oblig. by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Perhaps this is a difference between base Vista and SP1?

      Quite possibly. Mine is the standard Dell install that came with my E4300, but it is SP1.

  2. The only negative in the review: Pricey by Finallyjoined!!! · · Score: 0

    I'll have two then...

    --
    If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
  3. Re:Windows again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    some of us don't have a grudge against microsoft and don't care if it dies.

    get that through your thick skull already.

    signed, the other 99.5% of the world.

  4. Re:Windows again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    this isn't the world, it's slashdot.

    signed, a fat basement dweller who can't wait for 2009, year of the linux desktop.

  5. Re:Windows again by Psychotria · · Score: 1

    I admire your dedication. Another way to look at it though is that Windows is the most used desktop OS. Ditching it only means (for now) losing access to the majority of games. Wii and PS3... blah. I much prefer my games running on PC. If that means having to own Windows, then that is how it is for the moment. Windows, for me, is only a gaming OS anyway. Does it really matter if, one day, Windows is a gaming OS and serious stuff gets done in, say, Linux?

  6. Re:XPS cases sucks by JCSoRocks · · Score: 5, Informative

    BTX is a far superior mobo layout for air cooled cases. The only reason it didn't end up usurping ATX is because manufacturers didn't want to spend the money to support the new form factor.

    --
    You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
  7. Re:Windows again by JCSoRocks · · Score: 4, Funny

    this isn't the world, it's slashdot.

    signed, a fat basement dweller who can't wait for 2009, year of the linux desktop.

    Oh that's next year!? YES! I'm going to hit up thinkgeek and buy myself every linux shirt I can find. In your face MS admins!

    --
    You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
  8. Re:Windows again by Nethead · · Score: 3, Funny

    I thought that 20NN+1 was the year of the Linux laptop.

    --
    -- I have a private email server in my basement.
  9. But can you upgrade? by SIBM · · Score: 1

    Can I put in another HDD without having to disassemble the whole case or sacrifice my current one?

    --
    Scott
    1. Re:But can you upgrade? by Swift+Kick · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, you can.

      There are 4 drive slots located below the power supply towards the rear of the case.

      1) open the side panel,
      2) remove the drive tray in one of the empty slots,
      3) place your drive in the drive tray, slide it in,
      4) connect the SATA and power cables,
      5) close the side panel.

      That's it.

      --
      "We'll need 2000 crickets, 4 cans of Easy Cheese, and the fluid from 18 glowsticks for this plan to work...." - ph0n1c
  10. Re:Windows again by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While I don't really disagree with your assessment, I find it interesting to note that many people have blamed the fall of the Amiga as a platform on it being too heavily marketed as a games platform rather than being for "work stuff".

    Ironic that now it seems that one of the major obstacles preventing a particular platform's wide level acceptance is the presence of games.

    Truthfully given how limited my scope of gaming is these days Linux could PROBABLY serve all my needs if there were a good WoW (and Ventrilo) client for it. For the time being though my Mac is thankfully able to handle both those tasks.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  11. Re:XPS cases sucks by Psychotria · · Score: 2, Funny

    Conclusion, only fat pasty linux users buy dells.

    I don't know what to say.

  12. Re:XPS cases sucks by DigitalisAkujin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't want it either because I have to buy a new case.

    If I'm just swapping out mobos and CPUs every now and then I don't wanna be buying new cases. Especially if I"m using a really good and very expensive one.

  13. $5099 for a gaming computer... without SLI? by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hmm, this really doesn't make much sense. If you're going to spend that much money, the thing should have four graphics cards and its own nuclear powerplant. The one they reviewed, priced at 5099 dollars, only has one graphics card, so it gets whooped by a $1500 computer at Crysis.

    1. Re:$5099 for a gaming computer... without SLI? by mad_cat_elite · · Score: 1

      When I did support for Dell, a few years back, I use to joke that their XPS top of the line machines, mainly the 700 series, was more of an overpriced space heater than an actual computer.

    2. Re:$5099 for a gaming computer... without SLI? by Samah · · Score: 2, Funny

      By "Crysis", I assume you mean that benchmarking software, as it sure as hell isn't a game. I'd *almost* rather play Spore, and that's saying something.

      --
      Homonyms are fun!
      You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
    3. Re:$5099 for a gaming computer... without SLI? by Avatar8 · · Score: 1
      I despise Dell on several levels, mostly because I've had to support their high-failure rate hardware for the last 10 years. Then there are cases like this where they offer the public what appears to be a high-end gaming system and sell it for an exorbitant amount of money.

      Here's a comparison. Here's a similar system at CyberPowerPC for $3600: http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Gamer_Infinity_SLI_KO/ Same CPU, same motherboard, but twice the memory, twice the video and nearly twice the HD space.

      For $4900 you can get the high end machine overclocked to 4GHz running two 1TB drives in a RAID 0. /drool http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Gamer_Xtreme_XI/

      For a simple, cheap desktop to run Office, Dell is fine. For a gaming system - not a chance. Just another way to point out how much Dell sucks.

  14. Dell? by Quasar1999 · · Score: 1

    Since when did Dell become the de-facto gaming rig? Most gamers that want the machine at the top end of the performance curve will build their own with the top CPU and GPU of the day. And the few who will buy a prebuilt system would probably go with something like AlienWare.

    Next we'll see a story showing just how cheap laptops have become showing an Apple AirBook as the example. I'd give a car analogy, but there are just too many to choose from... and it's too easy to throw dirt at the American car companies at the moment, and it'd be in poor taste. :P

    --

    ---
    Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
    1. Re:Dell? by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Judging by all the grilles, lights, and windows, it certainly looks the part of a dedicated gaming rig to my eyes. At least, no business user would let it near their office.

    2. Re:Dell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Dell bought Alienware.

    3. Re:Dell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      slashvertisement!

      Oh, and Alienware = Dell now. It has been for quite a while.

    4. Re:Dell? by Quasar1999 · · Score: 1

      Dell bought Alienware.

      Well I missed that bit of news... I guess that explains why Dell is making gaming rigs with weird cases.

      --

      ---
      Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
    5. Re:Dell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I wouldn't say Dell became the purveyor of 'de-facto gaming rigs', but they've been trying to get a piece of the action when it comes to higher-end gaming systems.

      Chances are the average consumer is familiar with Dell, so they'll go there first to get a 'bitchin desktop', rather than go to the places that most gaming snobs would look at, like Falcon Northwest, VoodooPC or whatever (which often times are even more expensive than Dell).

      Besides, if you ignore all the whizz-bang lighting effects and other annoying things, they're pretty good development machines.
      I have a air-cooled XPS 720 that I bought from the Dell Outlet as a refurb a couple of years ago. Paid less than 1/2 the retail price, and I'm running Vista64 Ultimate, and VMWare with 3 virtual machines running 24/7 (Ubuntu 8.10, Centos52, XP Pro for VPN access to work).
      The video card is a 7900GTX, so pretty 'old', and I only have 4GB of RAM, but I have no complaints whatsoever about performance (and I do quite a bit of work on it). Also, it's virtually silent even with high workloads, and that's something I've never seen in any custom-built boxes that are air-cooled.

      If you're into building your own systems, more power to you, but if you want a well-performing system at a decent price, go look at the refurbs in the Dell Outlet. Never buy new.

    6. Re:Dell? by CRiyl · · Score: 1

      Judging by all the grilles, lights, and windows, it certainly looks the part of a dedicated gaming rig to my eyes. At least, no business user would let it near their office.

      At least not this guy.

    7. Re:Dell? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well I missed that bit of news

      Might want to peruse some tech-related sites from time to time, then.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    8. Re:Dell? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Or even slashdot.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  15. $4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by larsoncc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think it's funny that we're using Crysis as a benchmark, rather than an object-lesson in "what not to do in game development."

    The only reason why Crysis is being chosen here is because it's notoriously difficult to get it running on any system maxed out. The article's graph notes that the test was run without adding in anti-aliasing, and it manages to barely squeak out a playable frame rate (on a 22" widescreen lcd resolution).

    Crysis looks good, sure, but so do most games at this point. It can scale down to run OK on lower machines, but again, so do most games at this point.

    Benchmarking aside, I think it's beyond ridiculous that anyone would buy a $4,500+ PC for home / game use. What could possibly justify that? I have a year old system (quad core, 8800GT) that can literally play every game on the market at max settings... at 1920x1600! Oh, I guess with the singular exception of Crysis, which I haven't bothered with.

    I wouldn't dream of spending that much cash on a game system. Think about it this way: You can buy this PC, -or- a used Audi. Or... a well-equipped gaming PC, a Sony XBR TV, a PS3, 360, AND Wii, and still have money left over for games.

    1. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      Some people have [a lot of] disposable income and like to have new toys.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    2. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think it's funny that we're using Crysis as a benchmark, rather than an object-lesson in "what not to do in game development."

      What are you talking about. Computer games have *always* been designed to have settings headroom so that they can take advantage of new hardware. Crysis is normal, not some wacky exception.

      I have a year old system (quad core, 8800GT) that can literally play every game on the market at max settings... at 1920x1600!

      That's bullshit. FarCry 2, for example, also wouldn't run on max on that rig. And that's good. It means that game graphics haven't stagnated. It means that games can look better, and all you need to do is upgrade to see them. Just like it's been for the past 15 years.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    3. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by Psychotria · · Score: 1

      I actually like the approach that Crytek took. Sure, Crysis maxed out is hard to achieve (at the moment) but what is the alternative? A game that does less but can run on high or near-high settings on PC, PS3, Xbox2. A game that doesn't have nearly as many effects as Crysis. Crytek took the approach of pushing technology to its limits. And even then it's not all that hard to get Crysis to run on high settings. It would certainly not cost $4,500. Gimme more games like Crysis instead of game engines designed to run "maxed out" on current hardware.

    4. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by east+coast · · Score: 1

      That's the market and who are you to say?

      Dell is building this thing for gamers. Who else do you think the target market is?

      And not to be rude but if someone can afford to buy this rig and still have enough money to ride the bus who are you to question it? It's not like they're molesting children or kicking puppies.

      Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't pay a dollar for an extra frame a second out of any game that I play but at the same time I normally pay many times the normal going rate for a set of headphones. We each have our thing that we're into. It's ok, it doesn't hurt anyone. Live and let live, brother.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    5. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by Zordak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but enough about Bill Gates. Some people have a lot of debt and like to have new toys.

      --

      Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
    6. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by LandDolphin · · Score: 2, Funny

      I feel like your post make some sense, but I was warned not to rely on your post for any reason.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    7. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by lymond01 · · Score: 1

      I think it's beyond ridiculous that anyone would buy a $4,500+ PC for home / game use.

      My dad, approaching 65 years young, purchased a Dell gaming rig recently for over $3K. He showed me the specs and I was surprised to find that I could have built a similar machine for at most half the price (sans warranty and support of course). But building a machine isn't hard, but it's got some nuances (power supply pins for one) and if you don't want to attempt it, you'll buy one pre-built. And who will you go to? The company you've heard of, or maybe even bought from before.

    8. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by mad_cat_elite · · Score: 1

      Built for gamers, bought by old people who think the more money something is, the less that will go wrong with it (and boy are they mad when they have to call into tech support).

    9. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by sponga · · Score: 1

      almost as funny as Doom 3 requirements were huh?

      PC games have always had that extra ultra-high setting that nobody could run and have set the standard high.
      Where you been in the PC gaming?

    10. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by Zeio · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but this new hardware isn't sporting ECC. ECC single bit correction rates as indicated by Google and EETimes are much higher than you would expect. Ever have a memory read error, or a "BSOD" or panic you cant explain? I don't. All my rigs have ECC. Until one converts to a no-compromise on ECC stance, one never knows 2 things:

      Are my bits really safe? (both in memory and on disk)?
      Is my memory actually working ?

      Its tiresome to see that at the end of 2008 ECC isn't standard fare yet.

      EETIMES: Microsoft says PCs may need DRAM upgrade http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=199601761

      By the way, if the anti-ECC crowd comes into play (It seems there is a religion against ECC memory - who would have thought), I have rigs with ECC that blow away most machines. The GPU does most of the work, and for the most part GPU memory can be unprotected due to a bit flip in a frame buffer doesn't result in corrupted files or machine-death for the most part.

      --
      Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
    11. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No bullshit, I have a simular rig. (8800GT, Dual Core)

      Plays it on absolute full graphics.

    12. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      At 1920x1600?

      I've got a 9600 GT (which benchmarks only about 30% slower than an 8800 GT on similar games), and I get well under 20 FPS on Far Cry 2 at 1920x1200 with the settings cranked all the way up.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    13. Re:$4,700 later, you can play a $40, year-old game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about. Computer games have *always* been designed to have settings headroom so that they can take advantage of new hardware. Crysis is normal, not some wacky exception.

      Oddly, I can only get a steady framerate on medium settings (with a computer that is only a year old, mind you), or an acceptable but inconsistent framerate on high. The game looks pretty crappy on medium. It looks like its contemporaries on High, but without the Anti-Aliasing I can use on every other game (and again, with an inconsistent framerate). Furthermore, High is the recommended setting for my system, despite the framerate issues.

      This is an example of poor design/optimization; the 'headroom' justification is not enough.

  16. Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by WiiVault · · Score: 4, Informative

    Your Vista criticism is sound except for the indexing part. I have over a terabyte of stuff on my home machine and despite my best efforts I often cannot find things. OS X Spotlight has literally become my Finder replacement. These days I rarely ever even navigate through the windows. Of course I have had to learn to be a lot more careful when I label documents, but the time savings more than makes up for the occasional indexing. To me at least, real comprehensive search is the killer app of the modern desktop.

    1. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not that I don't agree with you in principle, but how hard is to have a bunch of organized folders: docs, mp3s, porn, etc.? Same argument: do a little work first, save time later.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    2. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by icegreentea · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In principle it's not that hard. That being said, desktop searching is incredibly helpful. You organized your mp3s by genre, band, album... Now you don't feel like clicking through a bunch of folders to get to your music. Sure, the bands you listen to often, you might have down with muscle memory. But when you try to look for something you haven't listened to in a while, it gets frustrating to sit around reading through band name after band name. Desktop search and you're done.

      Desktop search has its place. Organizing yourself is form of self restraint and discipline that is absolutely vital to getting stuff done. On the other hand, the reason we have all this technology is to make life easier.

    3. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by nobodylocalhost · · Score: 5, Informative

      Hold it, you are assuming people are going to search only by file name. However, the rest of us do search by content. How will you remember which file contains "int restriction_level = 1;" on a project with thousands of files and a class diagram that looks like spiderweb on steroids? Indexing is very useful in that aspect.

      --
      Where is the "Ignorant" mod tag?
    4. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      I think the problem with that, is when you want files indexed more than one way. Your approach can work, but you might end up having a shitload of softlinks, since a given file might appear in several different directories. Then let's say you want to delete a file: do you really want to delete it from everywhere, or just that one directory you were looking at. Maybe you want hardlinks instead. But then, maybe not.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    5. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by hellwig · · Score: 1

      Unless you write your code in Word, thats what "Find in Files" or grep are for. Until we develop algorithms to search by image or sound, there are already better tools for context searching.

      --
      Eggs
      Milk
      Bread
      Cat Litter
      Soda
      ...
    6. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by Anthony_Cargile · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The thing is, I use media players like (dare I say it) iTunes, WMP, Media Center, or RhythmBox to manage my songs and/or videos for me (as well as play them), so I don't need to sit there and browse folders or take a performance hit for indexing.

      When the great grandparent post said they liked indexing because they have a huge hard drive, the only thing I can think of for having such a hard drive would be Music/Video libraries, games, or absolutely huge Flash documents. The music/video most certainly would have a manager like iTunes or Media Center, the games are just apps with start menu/desktop launchers, and as a Flash dev myself I just put all of my .flas in a directory such as ~/Documents/Flash.

      And if you need a terabyte of hard drive space to store a bunch of word processing documents, then not only do I feel sorry for you but by all means enable indexing since you apparently do nothing other than edit word processing documents all day long.

      And as far as UAC, Indexing, and Aero having the ability to be turned off, I personally turn off Indexing for better personal organization, and always use the "classic" theme under any Windows version, but I would never turn off UAC in Vista because it is just as vital to security as sudo/gksu/root/wheel in *nix, and one of the reasons Vista does not have nearly the amount of security problems other past Windows versions have had.

      Vista has its share of problems other than what can be disabled (DirectX 10, WDM issues, memory management issues etc.), but many of these have been somewhat resolved in the Windows 7 betas I've tested, although driver issues persist (they were betas, after all). I am personally skipping Vista from my work-related virtual machine collection for these reasons, awaiting the production build of Windows 7 (actually Windows 6.1). Microsoft has been paying attention to our complaints with Vista, and 7 reflects this, e.g. a toned down UAC, better memory management, more streamlining, and graphics without quite as much performance hit.

    7. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by lymond01 · · Score: 1

      Unless you write your code in Word

      Hmm...not that I use Word, of course, for coding, but if I did use Word and was, well, looking for a suitable alternative for writing code, not that I am, what might you, err, recommend?

      And where's the Save button for this comment thing...

    8. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by nobodylocalhost · · Score: 1

      "Find in Files" are inadequate in most the cases without proper indexing. It misses matching files very often and will take a long time crawling through those files when you try to match without indexing. Especially when the files are sufficiently big, the search algorithm just gives up after a certain point. Also, have you ever run into character conversion issues? Anything you write in unicode will not get searched well using the "Find in Files" option. Grep on the other hand is a very good tool in term of accuracy and search flexibility. Although, indexed search is a lot faster and will save you tons of time in long term. Note that I am not saying indexing is the be all end all answer, I am just pointing out that there are significant uses for such methods and curbing user habits is rather archaic.

      --
      Where is the "Ignorant" mod tag?
    9. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ed.

    10. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I prefer Emacs. It is a great IDE and web browser, and unlike the myths circulating around it, it does not eat up too much memory. In fact, I have it open behind Firefox even as I write th

    11. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by Hatta · · Score: 1

      You organized your mp3s by genre, band, album... Now you don't feel like clicking through a bunch of folders to get to your music

      That's what locate, find, globs and tab completion are for.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    12. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by hellwig · · Score: 1

      If you really want to know, I use Emacs (free) and TextPad (not free). I use Textpad at work where they already have the license.

      I had a teacher in highschool who used to write his code in Word or Wordpad. I don't know if he programmed that way or if it was just for his examples and lesson plans, but it was wierd. I heard that a couple years after I left, they got another teacher. He had them write their code in windows, but transfer it to a linux box (via floppy if I recall) and compile it using GCC. Apparently they never heard of DJGPP or MinGW or hell, Cygwin. But seriously, it was a much better class when I took it.

      --
      Eggs
      Milk
      Bread
      Cat Litter
      Soda
      ...
    13. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by Draek · · Score: 1

      So is solving the problem of having a design that looks like spiderweb on steroids, though.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    14. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by ianare · · Score: 1

      Why thank you for that, that was very "the inside of Hellwig's head".

    15. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by mollymoo · · Score: 1

      Uh, locate is desktop search. Just bad desktop search. It only does filenames and typically the index is only updated once per day. Spotlight indexex content as well as filenames and does it on the fly.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    16. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by ickpoo · · Score: 1

      Are you serious?

      Find in files is a joke. It never finds anything, and is really slow in the process. Lets say for example that you have a large collection of .php files. You know that in one of the files in MoneyTalks, find files won't find the file, you could open the file in Emacs and be looking at the class MoneyTalks and Windows cannot find it.

      With source code, Find in Files is useless, it is slow, and only finds some of what it should find (likely caused by file extension, but, that is beside the point). My experience is with source code, I haven't searched mass Word documents, but even with those it still won't be fast.

      --
      I am not a script! .Sig?
    17. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by mollymoo · · Score: 1

      "Find in files" or grep search every file every time. For many thousands of files that can take a while. With an index, like the ones desktop search tools build, it would take a couple of seconds. When finding anything takes a few seconds you can eliminate many tedious processes. When it's quicker to search than to navigate a filesystem, there's not much point organising many classes of information at all. I organise my code, but I never organise my email. I don't even erase the old stuff, I just search and Spotlight finds the right message in a few seconds. Spotlight is faster than using the mouse for launching applications that aren't in the dock too. It's horribly inefficient that it finds everything on my system with "pho" in it when I use it to launch Photoshop, but given Photoshop is already there at the top of the list by the time I have hit the 'o' I just don't care.

      If you've never had a system with fast, pervasive desktop search you really can't understand how it can change the way you work. Grep, find, "find in files" and so on suck donkey balls in comparison.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    18. Re:Indexed Search is a Lifesaver by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or ... you could... you know... use something that has worked great for the last 2 decades at least: grep.

      http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/grep.htm
      (OS X, Linux, FreeBSD and Solaris should have it by default...)

      your there on the command line anyway, so

      grep "int restriction_level" *.java

      is a lot faster then finder or explorer or any other bloated and slow crap that comes with the OS.

      oh, you have a neat little directory structure?

      find

      http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/

      Use what has worked. I hate how Apple and Microsoft come up with all these shitty ass "solutions" [that work much slower] than what we've already had for the last 20 years ago.

      oh, you want a pretty interface? Nothing says you couldn't put a nice interface GUI on grep or find or whatever else is out there.

  17. 4k base and only 6gb of RAM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just can't believe that for their top of the line system, XPS 730x H2C, that you can only get it with 6GB of RAM--if you are going to spend minimum of 4k on a machine and have the assumption that you will get all the bells and whistles no hold backs, why would you short change yourself at 6GB of RAM instead of 12GB?

    1. Re:4k base and only 6gb of RAM? by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Especially since RAM is so much cheaper now. I know the chip is expensive, and the graphics card, but $4500 is a lot of money to get 6GB RAM with, and a 7200rpm hard drive...

    2. Re:4k base and only 6gb of RAM? by gparent · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because no games out right now use 6 Gb of RAM. However, plenty of games are still limited by CPU and GPU power.

  18. Alienware is Dell by WiiVault · · Score: 1

    Dell bought Alienware in 2006.

  19. Re:Windows again by LarsG · · Score: 4, Informative

    From what I can remember, it was also management issues at the top.

    Not to mention that the Amiga was tightly bound to the custom chips they did in-house (Paula/Agnus, etc). Commodore didn't spend (or didn't have?) enough resources on R&D to keep up with the PC, and was also too slow in changing the platform so that it could use PC components instead.

    --
    If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
  20. Re:Windows again by slyn · · Score: 1

    I wish Apple would take OpenGL by the balls and do to it what they managed to do with OpenCL.

    Right now DirectX's advantages (from what I understand) are its integration between all the necessary services needed to actually put together a game (video, sound, user i/o, etc.). If they could code an IDE that took a base of an improved OpenGL (what OpenGL 3.0 was supposed to be essentially) _and_ integrated its services with all the other necessary ingredients required to make a game, throw in some of Apples magical usability sprinkles, and Boom!, they have an oven to churn out delicious multi-platform cake that could turn another tide in the "Year of the Alternative Desktop".

    Currently said cake is a lie, but oh god I can practically taste it now.

    brb pastries

  21. Re:Windows again by binarylarry · · Score: 1

    Actually, it should be:

    signed, the other 89.5% of the world

    --
    Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
  22. Re:Windows again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    anyone else find it ironic that the signer of this document holds the banner of apple and sony high but wants to see microsoft dead? i thought around here that was like being a member of the axis and praising germany and japan but wanting to see italy get over run by the allies.

    i simply can not think of a company worse than apple when it comes down to keeping independent development away from their products.

  23. Re:Windows again by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

    Does it really matter if, one day, Windows is a gaming OS and serious stuff gets done in, say, Linux?

    Yeah, it does. I don't want to have to waste time and resources on Windows. If I was going to do that, I'd buy a console... which is the why of Xbox.

  24. Re:Windows again by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Well what are the options.
    Macs yea they can probably be a good gaming system. However you will always need to buy Apple Hardware with Apple OS (As I type it on my MacBook Pro in Safari for OS X). But for gaming where these guys often make their own uber boxes, going Mac isn't really an option.

    Linux for Gaming... That is actually laughable. Linux is great for a server. Passible for a desktop system, but not much for gaming... To many diver makers will not support Linux other who do take so much heat about not making their drivers open source. Oh I am sure I can get hundreds of responses saying how great linux runs this game or the other so much better then windows with the same configuration. But there are also the a slew of people who cannot get the App to run in Xwindows much less getting 3d acceleration running. Then people will point out all the problems the Windows users have with their cards. However for the most part you buy the hardware you get the drivers and the usually work. In linux you get the hardware then you need to hunt down the drivers find the right configuration etc... All in all if you want to play games on your computer, and not the game of lets get it configured, then you better off with Linux.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  25. Re:Well put... by Psychotria · · Score: 3, Funny

    You're missing the point. Maxis is releasing SimEarth soon, which will model weather systems tracking each individual water molecule; geological processes and modeling of the seismic activity including the role every soil particle assumes; the wind velocities inside a tornado; real-time fluid dynamics; life; accurate supernova recreations/simulations; and a whole lot more.

  26. Re:1st post by Retric · · Score: 1

    XPS 730x H2C = Intel® Coreâ i7-965 Extreme - Level 2 (Factory O/C'd to 3.73GHz), Genuine Windows Vista® 64-bit Ultimate (English) Service Pack 1

    Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium

    No speakers (FAIL)

    PS: I am not kidding they don't give you any speaker options on their most expensive XPS 730x H2C.

  27. Re:Windows again by snuf23 · · Score: 5, Informative

    There were a lot of reasons. Probably the number one overall was the same reason Mac market share dropped: the large prevalence of cheap PC clones from different vendors. The average user didn't see a real difference between Windows and another OS.
    As far as the technical side, you are correct in that the custom chips ultimately held the Amiga back. The updated AGA chipset machines (more or less comparable to VGA at the time) were pricey for the power they offered. For example the A1200 was released with a 68020 at a time when 486s were becoming common on PCs.

    --
    Sometimes my arms bend back.
  28. Re:XPS cases sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have been trolled again. See flamewars such as

    HDDVD/ Bluray
    GNOME / KDE
    Emacs / Vim
    Linux / BSD
    VHS / betamax
    Windows 9x / NT

    Welcome to the club.

  29. Re:Windows again by Psychotria · · Score: 1

    Yeah, ok. I agree with that. But I also don't see why having an OS dedicated to gaming is bad either. If it weren't for driver issues (and this could probably be worked out anyway) I think that an OS designed just to play games would be great. The "OS" would just have to be able to load and support games and do nothing else. I'd buy it. And if XP lost all the crap and became a game only OS then I could live with that as well.

  30. Re:1st post by Hurricane78 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No speakers (FAIL)

    Yeah. You're paying tons of cash for the best hardware out there, and then route the audio trough crappy active PC speakers? That's like those people who buy an expensive car, and then can't afford the fuel for it.

    If you have an expensive display, or sound card, don't be cheap on the sound. Everybody I know, who has a decent system, has it connected to his hi-fi system. I have only one output on my system: Real-time encoded AC-3 trough a fiber glass cable... It's better to let your amplifier do the D/A-decoding, instead of the cheap decoders in your sound card.

    At least I don't have to tell my fellow Slashdotters, that the keyboard is very important too. :)

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  31. Re:1st post by uniquename72 · · Score: 1

    Serious question: Are there any laptops speakers that don't suck? That is, are there any laptop speakers that don't make you instantly run for your headphones?

    (My laptop is 5 years old, and the speakers are unlistenable. Just curious if the situation has gotten any better.)

  32. Mobo? by Skal+Tura · · Score: 1

    What about the mobo? What is it?

    Supporting both CrossFire and SLI is interesting, most interesting is X58 chipset being Intel's ... and it gets SLI?

    Intel's chipsets are faster than Nvidias, partially thereof, Nvidia won't license Intel the SLI technology to make it work on their chipsets. On the other note then again, some Nvidia chipset (MOST OF THEM infact) refuse to work at all, or almost completely on them (Core Quad Extremes 9600-9770), even on the latest chipset.

    I'm running a Q9660 UNDERclocked to 2.4Ghz to make it stable on a Nforce 680i SLI mobo, 780i SLI mobo was actually WORSE than a 680i SLI mobo.

    Regular Quads, and dual core 45nm works fine, but not the very top end, and the word around is it's because Intel won't release the microcodes or something along those lines. More curiously even, the engineering samples worked flawlessly on these mobos, therefore marketing that it would work, and general assumption that they do work. However, 3 mobos and 2 CPUs later, still no stability.

    1. Re:Mobo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Three motherboards and two CPUs later, have you considered that the problem might be something else like your RAM? I assume you actually mean Q9650? Did you update your 780i BIOS?

      A general rule of thumb is if you aren't going to be going all out and running SLI, don't buy nVidia chipset motherboards. They are notoriously buggy.

      nVidia made a deal with Intel allowing Intel to support SLI on the X58 chipset, I don't know what nVidia gets out of the deal, but if nothing else they avoid falling out of favor with enthusiasts who want to run multi GPU configurations since nVidia does not have a chipset which supports Socket 1366.

    2. Re:Mobo? by psycho12345 · · Score: 1

      I don't know what nVidia gets out of the deal

      nVidia get $5 per board. IIRC, each manufacturer must send their board in to get SLI certified and pays nVidia 5$ per board for it.

    3. Re:Mobo? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      What about the mobo? What is it?

      It's the MOtherBOard, which holds a computer's main components such as the processor and disk drives.

      But that's not important right now.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  33. Re:1st post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Altec Lansing speakers mounted in some Hewlett Packard laptop series (the Pavilion TX2000 series for instance) are pretty decent IMHO. Pretty decent for laptop speakers, that is.

  34. Re:1st post by youthoftoday · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes. My PowerBook G4 12 inch machine has really excellent speakers.

    --
    -1 not first post
  35. Re:1st post by Starayo · · Score: 1

    I have a two year old laptop, and my dad has a three month old laptop, and they both have absolutely terrible speakers.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  36. In a recession by wshwe · · Score: 1

    In a recession few people care about a PC that starts at $1,800 and tops out at $4,400.

    1. Re:In a recession by Zan+Lynx · · Score: 1

      This is because most people in America are impatient short-sighted optimists who can't manage their debt.

      The current economy is making it difficult to borrow money, so individuals and companies that are living beyond their means and shoring it up with debt are in trouble.

      People who have money saved up might want to spend it on a nice gaming computer. It helps the economy, even. You wouldn't want poor Intel and Dell to go out of business would you?

  37. Re:Windows again by Domini · · Score: 1

    Yea, the Amiga was seen as too much 'for children' what held it back was paradoxically its more thought-through and superior architecture. I had a choice at the time between similarly priced Amiga 500 and an XT with no graphics. I should have gotten the XT I suppose, but at least I had lots of fun while other people learned to use Lotus 123.
    (I did design and develop a 3D CAD application (with GUI and mouse etc.) while still at high school in 1988 while the rest of my class were still messing around with writing 'hangman' games.)

    Then I skipped DOS and windows entirely and went from OS/2 to Linux. Later to use Windows NT.

    Yea, you can run WoW quite nicely in Linux nowadays... it's just a bit of an issue with Ventrilo still. But, yes, I prefer using a Mac for this as well... even though I have a gaming machine (to play things like Crysis and Fallout 3 on) I still spend about 99% of my time on my Macbook (WoW, VMWare with XP and Linux, mail, browsing).

  38. ?Booting games by uassholes · · Score: 1

    I asked once before without any luck. Not being a gamer, I'm very surprised about something. It seems obvious to me that when performance is the measure of satisfaction, a game should boot on the bare metal, instead of running on top of an OS. Especially a pig of an OS that robs you of a good percentage of the hardware you paid dearly for. Maybe you want something else from the OS at the same time? What if the game company built in email, IM, or etc.; would you still need Windows?

    1. Re:?Booting games by Shados · · Score: 1

      How would you handle hardware support that way? It would have to go back like the days of the DOS game, where a game only supported a finite subset of hardware, and everything else had to run on the CPU...it was possible back then, with games being minimalistic, but now?

    2. Re:?Booting games by Anthony_Cargile · · Score: 2, Informative

      Care to do your own hardware abstraction, graphics library, standard C/C++ implementation from direct x86 ASM? And what about booting from only a DVD, or prepackaging games in the extremely popular HDD format (oh wait, that requires a custom filesystem too unless you want to settle for FAT performance).

    3. Re:?Booting games by uassholes · · Score: 1
      Maybe you are right, but I still think a game manufacturer could package their games with a layer that provided the needed infrastructure like a "live" DVD that boots into memory the way the Linux "live" DVDs do.

      And the infrastructure they need is available free as open source, besides. What's stopping them.

    4. Re:?Booting games by Anthony_Cargile · · Score: 1

      And the infrastructure they need is available free as open source, besides. What's stopping them.

      The GPL.

      And "games on Linux" is for the moment something unheard of without Wine unless you enjoy half-assed Quake clones.

    5. Re:?Booting games by eharvill · · Score: 1

      I would love an option like that. Origin did something similar for Ultima VII to overcome memory limitations of DOS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_VII#Technical_issues

      I'm surprised someone hasn't come with a hypervisor (ala VMWare ESX) specific for home systems. Run everything in a VM, including your games, browsers, mail clients, etc. Everything has their own unique memory space that cannot affect the other systems running.

      I'd deal with the inconvenience of a boot disk or something similar if it netted me ~15% better performance by dropping the OS out of the picture.

      --
      At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend I don't care that you're not here with me
  39. Re:The Oblig. VISTA FUD by westlake · · Score: 1
    And lets see how well the SLI/Crossfire graphics cards run games while also being called by the desktop window manager and and explorer to redraw aero effects constantly.

    Explain to me how the Aero GUI becomes a load on the GPU when you are running Crysis full screen and with F/X cranked up to the max --- which is, after all, the reason why you lay out the big bucks for a high performance gaming system.

    How Do I ... tweak Vista indexing options for better performance [Dec 15, 2008]
    The Great Vista/Mac Showdown: Goodbye, WinRot [Feb 21, 2007]

  40. Re:Windows again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    do you honestly think that the majority of mac users want windows to die? who would they be snobs to if there was no microsoft?

  41. Re:1st post by lymond01 · · Score: 2, Informative

    FTFA: "Also included are a few freebies. Every XPS 730 system comes with a free tool kit with all of the various screwdrivers you would need to tinker with your system, a free Dell XPS metal mouse pad and a free set of XPS branded Turtle Beach Ear Force HPA2 surround sound gaming headset."

  42. Re:Windows again by gparent · · Score: 1

    WoW runs perfectly in -opengl mode, and Ventrilo has a hack to make it work (under wine) with working keybindings. It used to be on Gentoo-wiki, but they lost their database recently and I'm not sure if it's still there.

    This assumes you have a graphic card which has decent drivers (In my case this was the nvidia-drivers package with a 8800 GTS). I never got it to work right with an ATI card.

  43. Re:Windows again by omnirealm · · Score: 1

    MBGMorden (803437) wrote:
    > Truthfully given how limited my scope of gaming is these days Linux
    > could PROBABLY serve all my needs if there were a good WoW (and
    > Ventrilo) client for it.

    For the record, I leveled a priest all the way to level 70 on
    WINE/Gentoo. Never had a single crash. Ventrilo on WINE works fine for
    me too.

    --
    An unjust law is no law at all. - St. Augustine
  44. Re:Windows again by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

    While I don't really disagree with your assessment, I find it interesting to note that many people have blamed the fall of the Amiga as a platform on it being too heavily marketed as a games platform rather than being for "work stuff".

    Ironic that now it seems that one of the major obstacles preventing a particular platform's wide level acceptance is the presence of games.

    I have to admit that I didn't pay much attention to the Amiga. Which is odd, since I was such a fan of the C=64. One of my good friends at that time picked up an Amiga and it did look pretty interesting. But I never went for one. And that has me really wondering.

    I find myself disagreeing with the assessment at face value; it wasn't gaming vs. business that caused the Amiga trouble. There was a more fundamental issue that could have been misinterpreted as business computing. That issue was commodity platforms.

    Business computing was important. That's what got IBM to jump in to the fray. And IBM's hat to be tossed in to the microcomputer ring was the IBM PC. IBM themselves are important. IBM lends a lot of credibility, demands loyal budget spending, and simply draws attention from those who didn't realize a revolution was going on around them. But it doesn't end there.

    It really starts with Compaq. Compaq re-engineers the gatekeeper to IBM PC -- the BIOS. Then Compaq produces a better, cheaper "IBM PC" than IBM. And so begins the clone wars (stop transposing that in a Yoda voice).

    The introduction of clones really means that what used to be IBM's platform instead becomes a commodity platform. And commodities are really difficult to deal with in the business world. What we have is a force that sweeps away almost anything competing against it (and more than a few competing within it). Commodore was one such entity that tried to stand against, instead of figure out how to surf, that wave (Microsoft sells surfboards).

    Truthfully given how limited my scope of gaming is these days Linux could PROBABLY serve all my needs if there were a good WoW (and Ventrilo) client for it. For the time being though my Mac is thankfully able to handle both those tasks.

    I use Wine. I've had minor issues in the past. But things are pretty decent right now. WoTLK seems to have handed me a performance hit (although I have to admit I haven't done a lot to tweak performance - either in game settings, addons, or wine).

  45. Re:Well put... by GXTi · · Score: 3, Funny

    I heard it will also simulate the LHC, which makes you wonder why CERN wasted untold billions building the damn thing in the first place.

  46. Buy low, sell high by westlake · · Score: 1
    In a recession few people care about a PC that starts at $1,800 and tops out at $4,400.

    There are winners and losers in every turn of the market.

    In the 1930s folks went to the movies - an evening out for 25 cents - or stayed home and listened to the radio.

    Those quarters added up quickly.

    So did the return on every pack of cigarettes or bar of soap sold through "our sponsor tonight, your neighborhood Rexall drugstore."

  47. Re:Windows again by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And if XP lost all the crap and became a game only OS then I could live with that as well.

    I'm not getting my head around why this appeals to you so much. Maybe its just how I look at it.

    For me - Linux is great. I work in it. I dabble with various hobbies in it. When I want to game, its nice to just swing over to a virtual desktop and fire up a game for an hour or two (or hell - a weekend lost to downing bosses and fighting battlegrounds). A specialized gaming OS would mean I have to reboot (I couldn't imagine running in an emulator but hey - we're getting there).

    What you're asking for is a specialized OS. That seems to go against the nature of multi-purpose computing. That environment has been producing some very interesting effects over the years and pushing games that didn't exist anywhere else. Narrow the focus and you might miss the Next Big Thing.

    Even consoles are wandering away from their specialized roots. PS3 and Xbox are trying very hard to be all things entertainment; gaming, media, web browsing... it goes on. Unless the market gets burned by this, it is the thing of the future. Even my Tivo wants me to use it to order a pizza (apparently unsatisfied with just recording my TV, delivering movies / internet TV shows / podcasts, and streaming internet music stations).

  48. Re:Windows again by MrHanky · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bullshit. There are two makers of capable GPUs, and both support Linux well with decent drivers downloadable from their web sites. Installing the drivers is straight-forward for anyone capable of reading simple instructions. Different from Windows, yes, but not in any way difficult. You forget that while Linux is different from Windows, the users aren't in general any less competent.

    Also, the fact that you believe there is such a thing as hunting down drivers in the Linux world shows that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. If that's how you tried solving your problems, then it's obvious why you couldn't get it to work: you're doing it wrong. Don't blame the OS for your own incompetence.

  49. Hahahahaha! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dell does computer design like old people fuck.

    1. Re:Hahahahaha! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Old people overpay their partners for sex?

  50. Re:Windows again by binarylarry · · Score: 1

    Linux users of course.

    --
    Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
  51. Re:1st post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They know their target audience. If someone will spend 5k on a computer for gaming then they probably already spent god knows what on some "hi-fi" home theater system for their gaming computer.

  52. Great when it works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The 700 series of the XPS systems have always been top of the line in design and hardware.

    However, if you buy one of these guys and find you need a mobo/cpu/psu replaced within 3 months, request a *new* replacement.

    The problems that plague the 700 series can be vague and since it really is a specialty item, not everyone has proper knowledge of how to fix them.

    ---
    Don't bother, I already did.

  53. Re:Windows again by collinstocks · · Score: 1

    I think that Windows will eventually (not soon, but eventually) fail for a similar reason to Amiga.

    The problem is that technological (hardware) breakthroughs are accelerating (think Moore's law). In order to keep up, proprietary companies must continue to pour more and more resources into research and development in order to keep up. Open source has no such problem since anyone can contribute to research and development at no monetary cost.

    If you don't believe me, just look here. USB3.0 is already being developed for Linux, whereas it doesn't look like Windows 7 will even have support for it when it is finally released. While the latter fact may change (AFAIK it may already have changed), it does seem indicative of similar trends in the future as the rate that technology improves increases even more.

  54. Re:Windows again by Draek · · Score: 1

    Ironic that now it seems that one of the major obstacles preventing a particular platform's wide level acceptance is the presence of games.

    The fact that a couple of slashdotters say so doesn't make it true.

    In my opinion, Linux's only obstacle to gaining a significant foothold on the desktop market is a better acceptance on the business sector, as it happened with both DOS and Windows before it, with games only being a side benefit of the aditional market share. However, I am also a mere slashdotter so don't assume my opinion as truth, though I believe its better supported than the games theory. Still, conclusive proof it isn't, so take it with a grain of salt.

    Ohh, and personally, my gaming habits have expanded so nowadays I do most of it on Windows. But thankfully, everything else (from web browsing to software development) I do in Linux and while it would be nice to someday only need Linux for all my needs, I'm fairly comfortable with the current situation and don't see a pressing need to change. Well, other than the fact that the newest version of Windows sucks ass, but I believe there'll be enough 2K and XP-compatible games for me to wait until Microsoft redeems itself of Vista.

    --
    No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
  55. Re:Well put... by Sam+the+Nemesis · · Score: 1

    You're missing the point. Maxis is releasing SimEarth soon, which will model weather systems tracking each individual water molecule; geological processes and modeling of the seismic activity including the role every soil particle assumes; the wind velocities inside a tornado; real-time fluid dynamics; life; accurate supernova recreations/simulations; and a whole lot more.

    This seems funny right now, but who knows. The pace at which technology is progressing, I will not be surprised if these things actually get incorporated into a game.

  56. Re:Well put... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're just a beta test of Sim Earth, the next test starts in 1461 days, game time.

  57. Can it get any more gaudy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would be embarrassed to own such a gaudy box.

  58. Re:1st post by Beltonius · · Score: 1

    I have a P4 Dell XPS from about 5 years ago. The battery has a subwoofer. Let me repeat that. The 16-cell battery has a subwoofer. In its defense, it got a good 2.5 hrs of battery life back when it didn't staunchly deny the existence of said battery.

    Fun fact: My T60 (CD 1.83GHz and Radeon x1300 discrete card) benchmarks just about the same as my XPS (3.4GHz P4, Radeon 9700) and gets double the battery life to boot...and I didn't get questions from people asking if it's a laptop in a docking station/media base.

    I genuinely enjoyed its speakers...I primarily used headphones with it to not bother the roommate. I at one point purchased some 'portable' speakers that were battery or wall-wart amplified so I could more easily listen to music from across the room. I almost never used them because they just weren't worth it.
    When I upgraded to a Shuttle desktop/Thinkpad combo I split the desktop's audio output between various headphones and some really nice Behringer studio monitors my roommates and I got. Those things utterly rocked. Too bad we never found a good solution for streaming music between computers (our 'switching' method was a couple of 1/8" stereo extension cables and a Y-splitter. I know, I know, terrible, right?). Shoutcast had too much lag and I was stuck with windows for games and CAD and there didn't seem to be a good cross-platform solution.

    Anyway, the point is, agreeing with everyone above - don't buy speakers from Dell if you're going to drop several grand on a desktop from Dell. Nothing wrong with that desktop, but a DAC/amplifier in a separate piece of hardware is almost always going to do a better job than one crammed into a mobo or expansion card. I have an X-Fi Titanium card (my built-in sound card doesn't do 3D sound in games or dolby live whatever...the 5.1 advertised was something of a gimmick, but the latest Realtek chipsets are a lot better) piping Dolby Digital at 96kHz to a Yamaha receiver hooked up to a couple-hundred bucks of a low-end 5.1 Boston Acoustics setup. It sounds pretty fantastic.

    The only really good PC speakers that were totally worth their purchase price was the set of 2.1 speakers that came with my old P2 Gateway back in the day. They're from Boston Acoustics and weigh about 5 lbs for each of the little desktop units. I snagged them from my parent's house and have them hooked up to the old XPS for listening to podcasts and whatnot when I'm at the opposite end of the apartment from the 5.1 setup.

    ...I guess what I'm trying to say is: I HATE SAUERKRAUT.

  59. Why bother? by coryking · · Score: 1

    The whole point of computers it to make difficult stuff like that go away so we can spend our time doing things humans are better at doing.

    Besides, organized folders are really a piss poor way to structure large amounts of data. It is even piss poor for small amounts of data. For example, how would you structure your folders for a bunch of one-off "I'm learning API XYZ" projects you created in visual studio? Since they are all stupid apps, it isn't worth the time to properly oragnize them, yet still you might want to refer back to them.

    And this is triple for music or any other media. I gave up the whole "iTunes/Windows Media Player is for suckers, I can do it better in folders" attitude a long time ago. It is far, far, far easier to let those programs manage your 20,000 song music library then doing it yourself.

    The computers should adapt to us, not the other way around. IMHO, hierarchical file systems are on their way out for most content. They are good for the "system stuff" like your applications and their libraries, but they suck for your "content stuff".

  60. I hope people listen to you by coryking · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Turning off UAC on your own computer is one thing (I leave it on, turning it off is like running as root all day). Turning it off on a computer that isn't yours is horrible. You are opening them up to security issues by doing that. Instead you should keep it enabled and train the users what it means when you get a UAC dialog (hint: they shouldn't get any unless the install software). If they are really "clueless", train them to call you before clicking through one so you can make sure they aren't about to hose their machine.

    UAC is a godsend for people who maintain their parents or families computer. My mom calls me all the time with questions like this...

  61. Re:XPS cases sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The fact that the specs weren't designed to support on-die memory controller, also didn't help. (The RAM slots are too far away from the CPU)

    Intel was behind BTX,, just after AMD started including on-die memory controllers. Funny how Intel don't care much for BTX, now that they have on-die memory controllers, isn't it?

  62. Re:Well put... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    butterflies? does it include butterflies in all that?

  63. Re:1st post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well, you obviously fail to.

    A really good set of head phones will beat any speakers any day. Plus they block out external noises which helps with immersion.

  64. Re:1st post by Retric · · Score: 1

    It's not a laptop.

  65. Re:1st post by KeNickety · · Score: 1

    Yuck, Behringer, you'd be better off with some Mackies or Genelecs

  66. Re:Windows again by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

    I've gotten WoW to work using Wine, but haven't tried Ventrilo. Still, I've never found Wine to be a preferable solution. I want a native port :).

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  67. Re:1st post by UNKN · · Score: 0

    How exactly do you output the audio to your system, from what device?

  68. perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To put things into perspective, this machine can run 35 virtualized instances of Ubuntu Linux with full compiz effects enabled, or it can run Vista!

  69. Re:1st post by Theoboley · · Score: 0

    and YOU obviously failed English.

    To != Too

    --
    Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
  70. Re:XPS cases sucks by spinkham · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure. I have an Antec 300 case, which puts the CPU up in the top corner and has a 120mm behind it and a 140mm fan above it. I have a good sized CPU cooler which i run without a fan, and the CPU stays cool and silent.

    The BTX layout is better then some ATX cases, but it's just not categorically better then all ATX designs. There's not enough reason to switch, so the market hasn't.

    --
    Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
  71. Dell re-using their Workstation shell by lpq · · Score: 1

    Based on the looks of the machine -- it's the same chassis as their 2-3 yr old "Dell Precision 690" Workstation model.
    The 690 workstation sported a Intel 5000X Workstation motherboard (the other 5000-series boards are for servers) with sockets for two CPU's and expandable to 64GB of memory. It came with a stock 750W power supply or an optional 1KW PS. It's an impressive case that just feels solid. No tools needed to replace boards in the motherboard. Four 5" bays for media drives + 4 internal 3.5 HD bays. You might be able to configure a similarly equipped machine by ordering the basic system as a Precision workstation and adding in your own graphics card (the workstations usually come with Quadro graphics, which suck wrt/price:performance for gaming).

    Haven't tried configuring or ordering one, but you might get a similar i7 based system through their small business and home-office store-front with less flash, similar internals, but less cash. You might also have option to choose a SAS controller that allows you to mix SAS and SATA drives for a RAID0 config + a large cheap SATA drive.

  72. Re:Windows again by o'reor · · Score: 1

    The updated AGA chipset machines (more or less comparable to VGA at the time) were pricey for the power they offered.

    I would say that the AGA chipset was not that much to blame : it compared quite favorably to regular VGA and was better, and more flexible, when it came to 3D capabilities. But the 68020 sucked, definitely. A 68040 with an MMU and an FPU would have made the machine look much better.

    And yet, the price ($599) made the A1200 quite affordable for a multimedia computer, compared with equivalent PCs which cost well over $1000 at the time.

    --
    In Soviet Russia, our new overlords are belong to all your base.
  73. Re:XPS cases sucks by toddestan · · Score: 1

    Technically, the Antec 300 is not an ATX case. It's just a case that can accept most standard ATX formfactor motherboards, power supplies, and other parts. The Antec 300 is not a bad arrangement though, a regular ATX case just has the heat from the CPU blowing into the case, so you need addional fans to blow that heat out of the case. This might have worked fine in 1995, but certainly not optimal with CPUs pulling 100W or more nowadays.

    I've never liked BTX because it vents the air out the front of the case and blows the warm air at the user. Or I guess you can reverse the fan, in which case the air blowing through the case is first heated by the CPU. That, and the computer now opens from the opposite side, and I'm just too used to it being the other way.

  74. Re:1st post by uniquename72 · · Score: 1

    It's not a laptop.

    haha! No, it's not. After rtfa-ing, I was googling around and must have looked at pics of the 1730x, which is a laptop. So my question was totally off-topic, but I'm happy to have gotten good answers nonetheless.

  75. Re:1st post by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

    Yes, you're right (apart from the insult).

    But do you want to have headphones on your ears all day long?
    I sweat like crazy, even with the most advanced materials.

    Besides: I like my 5.1 system. At least as long, as binaural recording for everyone in an unsolved problem. :)

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  76. Re:1st post by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

    Oh, and my setup for a game-headset is a high-end headphone, and a clip-on microphone (like the ones used on TV).
    These microphones have a very impressive sound quality and loudness compared to normal headset microphones.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.