Slashdot Mirror
RIM Accuses Motorola of Blocking Job Offers
theodp writes "Taking a page from the insanely-jealous-husband-playbook, Motorola management has adopted an if-I-can't-have-you-nobody-can stance on its fired employees, reportedly blocking RIM from offering jobs to laid-off workers. In a complaint filed in state court, Motorola is charged with improperly trying to expand a previous agreement 'to prevent the RIM entities from hiring any Motorola employees, including the thousands of employees Motorola has already fired or will fire.' Through its Compete America membership, Motorola has repeatedly warned Congress that failing to accommodate the lobbying group members' 'principled' demand for timely access to talent would not be in the United States' economic interest and would make the US second-rate in education and basic research."
A reach around
Jews did 9/11
If you find this post offensive, don't read it! THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING! I am what I am because of how apes behave.
First boxing day post!!11!one
But if you aren't playing with your toys, you have to share with the other children.
If they really want to keep RIM from having their castoff engineers, just keep paying their salaries.
R.I.M. is a Canadian company, and this is Motorola's way of keeping talent in the U.S. All good and patriotic Americans should support Motorola's actions in this matter!
If RIM had a division in California, they could hire anyone they wanted since California law essentially forbids non-compete clauses.
There was a recent Slashdot discussion about this when a Former IBM Exec Ordered To Stop Working For Apple.
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
Interesting to see how the paragons of capitalism don't believe in the free market.
A company I once worked for once had a written policy that anyone who had ever worked as a direct employee could not be hired at a later date as a contractor (contracting is very lucrative in this industry). I always thought that sounded legally dubious but despite some efforts the media had no interest in pursuing it.
I eventually left that company to contract at a competitor. On my last day the director of engineering told me "You realize I can't approve of this." To which I did not reply, but always wished I had "I can not approve of the way you accept public subsidies and then exported my job to Ireland."
Can't wait until I get a little older so I can name names.
Equine Mammals Are Considerably Smaller
just another log on the fire.
The two linked news sites contain identical regurgitations of the Reuters article.
I have noticed the space between duplicates has been shrinking over the years. Now they have found a way to occupy the same post! How do we stop this collapse before it destroys the universe?
From TFA: "BlackBerry maker Research in Motion sued Motorola over claims the mobile phone maker is improperly blocking it from offering jobs to laid-off Motorola workers"
This is really sad. The US has a very high unemployment rate and people are struggling to find jobs. Some people are barely able to put bread on the table and Motorola wants to keep it that way? For what? A dispute with Blackberry? Screw you Motorola, you've just lost my business forever.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
What bothers me most about Motorol's behavior here is that there are people who are not drawing a paycheck. Some are on unemployment and they could be back in the ranks of the employed, spending money and helping our economy... not to mention the personal ramifications of no longer being unemployed...
However, Motorola wants to keep these people unemployed. they want to flare their feathers no matter who is hurt in their little a pissing match.
We all wonder what went wrong when some ex husband dresses p as santa, goes to his ex wife's fmaily xmas party and kills 8 people, but when a company tries to do the same thing to thousands, we stand idolly by.
Because of this action, I will no longer allow any motorola product in my house. period.
I have never been an employee of motorola and am not mad because i am one being hurt, but I would want opthers to do this if my former company wanted to keep me poor after laying me off.
Stand up, consumers, and let motorola know that it is time to move past the anger stage already.
New and improved Guilt. Now its alcohol soluble!
You'd think Motorola would want their competitors taking on those responsible for their vast array of shitheap products.
I can't believe that anyone is even allowed to fire someone and then to prevent them from attempting to get another job anywhere they want.
One thing is when someone quits and there is a non-competition agreement, another thing is when someone is fired. Has anyone ever lost in court to a company that fired them when they started working for a competitor?
Everyone: if you are a 'permanent' employee, don't sign non-compete clauses, and if you do, at least modify them to say that if the company terminates your employment, then this clause does not apply.
Nice of Motorola, by the way, to attempt and stop people that they fired from trying to find employment, especially in this economy. If anything is going to hurt economy of the USA it's going to be millions of unemployed people.
You can't handle the truth.
The two linked news sites contain identical regurgitations of the Reuters article.
I have noticed the space between duplicates has been shrinking over the years. Now they have found a way to occupy the same post! How do we stop this collapse before it destroOH SHI{#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER
The defense of this is that do not have to for RIM, the could be independent contractors. But the non compete clause might prevent a person from doing that as well. Non complete clauses are not uniformly bad. They may be good for preventing someone from quitting and going to a competing entity, or purposefully getting fired and doing the same. OTOH, in a country where many fears the welfare state enough to allow children to die of lack of medical care, but not due to accidental or forced conception, it would seem that we would not laws or regulations hat force highly trained persons onto those roles, or taking lower skilled jobs that might force other who might take the lower skilled jobs onto the rolls.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Since the US is far behind being 2nd in education - most notably math - wouldn't being 2nd be an improvement?
And they all have draconian NC contracts. It's actually rather sad; I've run into dozens of ex-Illinoisians (sp) here in NYC who simply don't understand that they can negotiate a NC agreement. And none who would ever dream that in many circumstances here in NY and NYC, you don't have to sign them at all without any risk to your employment.
I started my tech career in Illinois, and I'm glad I did. It was incredibly competitive in Chicago in the early and mid 90s, and I learned more there in six years than I could have ever learned anywhere else in twice the time.
But I'd rather sling coffee out of a truck in Union Square than ever move back to Chicago and work in the tech industry there. It's unnecessarily brutal.
I'm currently looking for work and I have been troubled to find that potential employers are not willing to look at my resume because of the perception that I might have a potential conflict-of-interest from a previous employer. Employers are apparently not willing to spend the time to determine if there are any legal issues hat actually exist (in my case I am unencumbered), and instead would rather toss a resume than invest the time/take the perceived risk of hiring someone with a background in my industry. I will probably have to relocate and take work in a unrelated business sector -- which is too bad because I enjoyed and was good at what I used to do.
grrrrr
Well, Motorola phones sucks long time, anyway.
WHO CARES? Nokia ownz.
People must wake up and realize that we allow the corps to employ us at OUR sufferance, not the other way around. Do not let them make you think they are doing you some huge favor by employing you. It's the other way around.
"Crude and slow, clansman. Your attack was no better than that of a clumsy child."
[corporate flamebait start]
If US companies want to keep US workers in the US, they should offer them so attractive working conditions (this includes working environment, good salaries, and job security for those who are concerned with such) that they don't want to leave. US citizens are free to leave the country if it suits them, and if we are to continue calling this country a "beacon of freedom" or whatever the latest slogan is, then it will have to continue to be that way.
And if Microsoft has such a hard time finding workers in the US, why aren't they looking into hiring some of Motorola's castoffs?
[/corporate flamebait end]
How can it possibly be in the economic interest of the US to allow a corporation to lay off/fire workers and then not allow them to accept a job in their own field?
To side with RIM would be to side with forcing the taxpayers to pay unemployment/welfare benefits while the corp gets off scott free. I say make RIM pay these benefits if this is how they want it. In fact, I think that if such "noncompete" crap is to be legal at ALL, it should be allowed ONLY if the corporation pays the worker his/her regular salary NOT to work.
I find it funny how corporations are "gung ho capitalists" when it comes to axing thousands of workers on a whim for their benefit, but become devout orthodox Stalinists when it comes to workers going elsewhere for THEIR benefit...
Corporatism != Free Market
This sounds like it could very well be due to RIM taking advantage of some information it got from Motorola under NDA.
RIM and Motorola had (have?) an agreement to share confidential information about some unrelated matter. RIM notices that Motorola is going to be laying off people from this information. RIM immediately starts soliciting these people that are likely to be laid off.
Now that doesn't sound entirely reasonable, does it? Especially since these people can be approached on the basis of "we're offering you a job with a 25% cut in pay because we know you are about to lose your job."
The agreement has expired, then why the lawsuit?
From one article:
But from the other:
So, both companies agreed not to solicit each other's employees and now RIM wants out of the deal. Why should the be let out of the deal?
Either the writer is incompetent or the above is false because "three months" ago was after the agreement supposedly expired, therefore the suit could not be in violation of the agreement.
From the linked letter to Congress:
How does that apply to anything in this case, in any way shape or form?
To me, this looks like a lot of biased reporting and RIM trying to weasel it's way out of an agreement.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Motorola: Sorry guys, no RIM job for anyone.
Interesting but Dante had figured that one out. In his version of hell, some people were in hell even before they died. The devil just can't wait for that mere formality to take you to hell. He appoints some demon to take over your body until your body dies. I actually saw an updated version of Dantes Inferno where Cheney was one of these people.
I own two Motorola GSM telephones & judging by their performance I was under the impression Motorola had no engineers left.
We need to ENSURE ex-Motorola employees' right to get RIM jobs!
These are the same guys who arrogantly rejected digital cellphones for a long time because it would interfere with their market share grasp of analog cellphones.
According to the Church of Motorology, it is a sin to voluntarily accept a rim job...
I would also like to see a similar employment scourge killed off: There are some big companies (and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the companies mentioned in this topic are among them) who in behind the scenes deals, blackmail headhunters from hiring away employees for better pay.
Employer: "You contract out one of our employees who wants to leave us, and we will never hire another one of your contractors who wants to work for us... ever." (Sounds kind of stupid, but really, that is what it works out to.)
Headhunter: "Understood."
I know for a fact that a telecom software vendor I worked at in Saint Louis had these agreements. I would get a call from a headhunter and when they would find out I was still working for this company they would tell me they couldn't work with me until I quit or was laid off (and this would happen for real jobs, not just their prospecting calls). I heard this from a good number of my workmates too. That is when personal networking becomes very important. I eventually quit for a contracting gig in a different city where my former employer had less sway. I ended up working on the client side of one of their implementations where I could help combat their equally obnoxious manners with their customers (they have a strangle hold on the market).
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
Based on the summary which unduly focuses on the male gender, I'd venture it's safe to say theodp hasn't had much experience dating women.
I'm not even sure what to say here except that along with Sony, Motorola is the next company I will refuse to buy any product they make.
Can the workers who got fired get some kind of restraining order against Motorola and its agents?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
...blocked out that whole "Accuses Motorola of Blocking" part out of the headline.
I thought campaign contributions were considered more valuable than individual votes.
And that's exactly why political campaign contributions coming from anyone other than individual registered voters needs to be outlawed.
I'm sure Motorola isn't doing so, but I wouldn't mind a non-compete so long as the company demanding that would pay full salary equivalent during the interval they effectively demand I stay unemployed. Simple as that. Would also be fine with a severance package of exactly equivalent value (so long as the interval didn't span more than one tax year, in which case the payment would have to be spread to avoid unfair taxation).
Anyway, I know companies aren't up for it. The most generous severance package I got was three months pay on top of untaken vacation, and that was without any non-compete criteria attached.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
I would've told instead that I would only be willing to *sell* him the computer and its hard drive... for maybe like 100 grand.
From a more practical perspective, we are already running a huge trade deficit. Some economists say this doesn't matter, but others say it risks nasty bubbles and major instability. If the US continues being the dumping ground for cheap products and services, this bubble risk grows as the trade imbalances create credit bubbles. Economists tend to under-estimate bubbles, perhaps because they are overconfident in their ability to "fix" them, so I will take the view of the "bubblers".
Further, many times those countries are cheaper because they lack regulations that keep us safe and healthy. They may have 60-hour work-weeks in asbestos-festered offices or work with dangerous chemicals and pollution in factories. It's unfair if we have to compete with regulations that they don't have.
Further, it would push us to all be Walmart greeters and shoes salesmen as "non-face" jobs shift to where the labor is cheaper. Diversity in careers would diminish, and lack of diversity is also a bubble-risk.
The "open borders" labor thinking just has too many unsolved problems. Adam Smith's equations need a rewrite to reflect risk and uncertainty better. Maximizing an economy based over-simplistic models is partly what got us into the current mess.
Table-ized A.I.
That word is TREASON. They know their actions cause direct harm to the people of the United States. only an insane entity would think otherwise.
So the people should just declare Motorola a Traitor to the country. What does it take, two sworn affirmations from people of good reputation? I can find two hundred without thinking.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
What happens with people who work on secret stuff when they are let go, fired or quit?
Are they banned from working in another country?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I don't know which one you mean. I suggest that you get a copy of the Inferno by Dante and read it (or see wikipedia). It was circle 9, round 3 of hell. For the modern update of it (featuring Cheney) , it was a cheap performance I saw on the Ovation channel.
This would be like your former landlord approaching you with your old rental contract, pointing out that he changed the 12-month rental period to 24 months, so you need to keep paying rent for another year. Or like the Armed Forces modifying enlistment contracts to keep personnel from leaving.
Ya know, I'd love to know the enforceability of a non-compete across international borders. Motorola fires me, RIM wants me, and they move me to Canada or the UK. Now what?
I'm not expecting Obama or the 111th Congress to take any action in this direction, but I'd love to see non-competes invalidated nationwide. The ONLY reason I can possibly see for non-competes is to let you not pay employees sufficiently to keep them from going to the higher-paying employer next door. Trade secrets my ass.
In Europe, some countries have adopted the 35-hour working week, which makes it illegal to employ a worker for longer than that. According to your argument, this is unfair...
Close. What's unfair here is if the companies based in 35-hour countries have to compete with products and services made in or delivered from countries without the 35-hour week without any tariffs, the amount of which would only have to be enough to make up for the difference in costs to the companies caused by these regulations.
Also, the average salary in some countries, like Switzerland, is higher than the U.S. ($66,000). According to your argument, this is unfair...
Not even close. The point is not demographics, it's regulations. There is, to my knowledge, no law stating that the Swiss must make an average of $66k/year. It's not even about salaries, directly; it's about costs to the companies in question.
Again, the point is that any country with lower levels of regulation, leading to lower costs to the companies, should, to ensure fair competition, have tariffs on goods and services sold from their country to countries with higher levels of such regulations sufficient to offset the difference in costs.
Personally, I think that a certain amount of such tariffs would be good, to ensure that you can't just ship your manufacturing jobs to the cheapest dirthole you can find and exploit the people there for labour. However, I don't know how far it should be taken. That's the kind of thing I prefer to leave up to economists.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
Non-compete clauses are mostly unenforceable around here (same is true of many other European countries) *unless*:
Or, how, about, they pay you for the rest of your life. - you are being facetious but I am not certain why exactly, I suppose there is very thick sarcasm somewhere there.
Nope and you completely misread what I wrote. What I meant was, if they're going to fire you, for what ever reason, and still enforce the non-compete, then they should pay your salary for as long as they enforce the non-compete because you can't get a job because of the non-compete. Right?
And this BS about not signing it is completely unrealistic because if everyone demands it, how are you supposed to "not sign it"? I understand NDAs, but other than that, these agreements that employers demand that you sign just a form black mailing employees.
... I modify them where I see it necessary. Most people make the mistake of not doing this and it will bite them.
Really? Good for you! Every time I had a non-compete or any agreement that has to be signed for a job was a take it or leave it. In other words, you either sign it as is or you do not get the job. Of course it depends on what you do and who you are. Meaning, someone like you has skills and talent that, apparently, I do not have and you are able to pull that off. (I am NOT being facetious or sarcastic.)
I agree with everything else in your post. I just had a problem with the way you interpreted my comment. I typed this with a smile on my face and with warm and fuzzy Holiday feelings.
Happy New Year!
"If we all don't conform to consumerism the whole world will fall apart."
Don't recognize that one yet?
"If we all don't conform to *ism the whole world will fall apart."
Still having troubles reading that? Bigger hint. Replace the * with an arbitrary religion or philosophy from your list of religions and philosophies to hate.
Now that I've poisoned the well, let me explain.
There is plenty of room on the earth for everyone to have enough land and access to water to live the way this guy suggests. There always has been.
If you can't connect the dots from there, well, maybe I'll have more time to explain it some other day. But I've finally figured out something, and that is that if the other guy would quit competing so hard, I wouldn't need to compete so hard either. But if I keep scaling the competition up because he does, pretty soon it ends in the local equivalent of nuclear war.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
What does a failing company has to protect from another company which is doing better? Blows me...
Is there a +1 stupid mod so we can expose ignorance for what it is?
I lived that way when I was single. Now we pay insurance regularly, etc. My kids get sick regularly. My wife is making herself sick. I'm watching this all go down.
In fifteen years, we've wasted more in insurance than it has saved us, plus whatever it will cost to fix my wife back up.
Me? I've got something that the neither the Japanese version of the AMA nor the AMA recognize. So no insurance covers it. I live with it, and I control it by eating right, as much as is possible in Japan. (Really hard to get good whole-wheat products and other such things that I need here, but somehow I keep finding alternatives when I need them.)
Insurance is just a lottery. It's a luxury neither individuals nor society can afford, in the end, unless we can learn how to quit using insurance as just another whip to keep everyone's noses to the keep-up-with-the-neighbors grindstone.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
I've heard so much about "US ecomomic interests", that quite frankly I' not anymore. Had enough bullshit in my life to see it coming and duck. Unlike the Iraquis, afghanistan, nicaragua who has no choice. At least the americans know what bullshot is cos they killed all the bufallo!!
The question is why the f*meep* would you want to work at a corrupt, dirty company like research (retards) in motion? I worked there for over 18 months and I'm glad I got away when I did.
My advice to Motorola employees? STAY AWAY FROM RIM AT ALL COSTS!
... a form of restraint of trade? A violation of the Sherman Anti-trust act?
If the labor market is similar to any other market and I negotiate with my competitor to split a market between us and not compete with them, I'd get a vacation at Club Fed. Striped pajamas and all.
Have gnu, will travel.
He probably got her when he was making $55k/yr. Now she's stuck with the cheap bastard. ;)
"would make the US second-rate in education and basic research."
-- Wait a minute, somehow the U.S. is going to improve as a result of this beating out the 5 or 6 other countries that kick the 5#17 out of them for education and basic research? Awesome!
Ace
With their donations, which buys ads that matter more than your chad or Diebolt bit!
A country is not made of land; a country is made of its people. --G.A.Rao
I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga
That's why corporate personhood needs to be repealed.
No. The world should take notice. All of those people around the planet earth that cheered Obama's election are going to find themselves learning a hard lesson of history. Today's Democrats are against free trade, and quite frankly, as a Republican who thinks this policy has failed, I'd say, let the Dems pull the plug on it. I don't care.
My question is this. Since when does someone in the rest of the world have the same rights to the marketplace of my country as a citizen of my country. That concept is bullshit.
When push comes to shove, other countries do not, have not, or will not, contribute to American security. I don't see too many Indians flying B-17s over Germany, B-29s over Japan, landing at Okinawa, freezing their asses off at the Chosin Reservoir, fighting at Denang, and certainly not in Iraq. In a similar vein, I seem to recall that the Germans, Japanese and Chinese were all on the other side! For the last 70 years, the USA has been to war all over the planet for some cause or another and the outcome is invariably that the middle classes sent to fight and pay for these wars wind up having to compete economically with the very people that they had to fight. When do Americans actually get to benefit from American wars? I mean, we beat the Germans to have German steel knock off American steel, beat the Japanese to have Japanese cars pollute our streets, fought the Chinese to have their crap on our stores, and now, to top it all off, we go and occupy the largest oil producing nation on the planet in order to have a summer of $4/gallon gasoline and a consequent total economic meltdown.
It's sickening.
There's so many people on the right wing that talk about family values, self reliance and community, and all of it is easily revealed to be a treasonous fraud when its all brushed aside in the name of free trade. You can't have family first when you place them under the microscope of worldwide competition and declining wages. You can't say a nation is self-reliant, when, it replaces a tradition of thrift and industry with a bidding war for imported slave labor, and you can't say you favor community, when, the community factories, schools, and infrastructure all shut down because of imported crap. Republicans continually rant about the death of tradition and culture in America but remain utterly and willingly oblivious to the fact that it is their own economic ideas that cause it.
A nation is more than a geographic coincident of world wide consumers. A nation includes a common history, common art, a common cultural base. As much as someone in Japan or Germany or India or China might make a good product, they do not have the same background as the union stiff next door.
My son goes to a school with that union stiff's kid, not some dickhead in Breslau.
This is my sig.
I say all these people go ahead and start working for RIM and let Motorola try and sue all of them.... They will be buried in legal fees and the lawyers will be laughing all the way to the bank!!!
I went through total hell thinking something was wrong with me. I couldn't be blacklisted for having been laid off. It was insane to even think that way.... I couldn't get another communications sector engr. job. The kids were stressed in college-one dropping out and still not getting his life back together. I had to re-invent myself into a new career. A hard and painful task at the 47-53 age range. I needed to borrow from my parents to save the house and the wife didn't understand... Now I find out that there is a good chance we were blacklisted everywhere... That churches and businesses and pols supported this because it was so PC-CORRECT and LIBERAL to want to give INDENTURED SERVANTS (H1B visa holders) jobs and deny them to CITIZENS who worked hard for the MOT for years and years........ Well I hope that there is a HELL and these corporate and other leaders rot in hell forever for the crime they committed against 10s of thousands of us! IF there is an army of class action lawyers out there that want to pursue this.... you have my aid and comfort.
There are re-writes to Adam Smith. No modern-day economist worth his or her salt agrees with Adam Smith's models or the Classical Ricardian model(s). There are re-writes that explain more about the present-day economies. The only places where Adam Smith is taught is in first-year courses, and the upper level courses are basically about how the things taught in first year aren't true.
Headline: Motorola Bankruptcy Triggers Increased Unemployment in China and Mexico; U.S. Employment Statistics Barely Affected. Motorola is still suffering from Chris Galvan's philosophy of "The employee is the enemy." Motorola might as well have hired Catbert as its corporate H.R. Director. Ed Zander at least attempted to reduce the "warring tribes" mentality within the company, but to little avail. I was laid-off during Zander's tenure, so I don't know as much about Greg Brown, et. al., but I doubt that very much has changed in the last few years. One would think that if the employee is the enemy, Motorola would have very few enemies left in this world, but if ex-employees are the enemy, Motorola's in BIG trouble!
Famous last words. Or rather, the last words are "But you can't do this to me!"
Lest anyone be mislead, when he says he works "2 hours a day", I'm sure he means "works for someone else for pay for 2 hours a day". That fixer-upper doesn't get fixed, nor those cows fed or garden weeded, on 2 hours a day.
As for not "indulging" in health insurance: my son had appendicitis. My insurance paid for most of it. If your child has appendicitis, the taxpayers will pay for it.
I think you really need to reconsider your medical insurance. True, you don't currently need it. That is exactly why you should consider "insurance" rather than a "health program" mislabeled as insurance. Real health insurance covers unusual accidents, like getting kicked by the goat and ending up in the emergency room. Usually, this kind of health insurance is called major medical and has outrageous deductibles, but is quite cheap. Granted in most states you can just show up at the emergency room and get treated, but as soon as they find out you don't have insurance your going to face some ugly realities. Farm accidents are particularly nasty and without insurance the hospital is as likely to cut your legs off, rather than spend 300k attempting to rebuild them and send you through therapy so you can walk.
Now that you mention it, healthy kids do have statistically fewer accidents, and take less damage when they do have accidents.
Setting up a savings account for emergency needs is one alternative to buying insurance, but, then, if you're paying out insurance premiums, it's that much harder to allocate money to it. It's also something of a gamble, true. You might end up needing the money before you've saved it.
Of course, you have to have a certain amount of self-discipline to keep your hands out of that money when the newest XBox or PlayStation or iPhone or whatever comes along.
The Japanese Postal Service sells a kind of insurance that basically turns into savings if you don't use it. It has some limitations, and tends to be bought in addition to the other, semi-compulsory health insurance.
(Either your company arranges the "social" insurance for you or have to buy the "National Insurance", which is more expensive. I'm not sure what the punishment for not having insurance is, besides having to pay full rate if you do need to go to the doc for some reason. Hmm. And employers are required to see that employees are insured, one way or another. The employer is required to foot half the premiums or something like that.)
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.