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Using Lasers To Generate Random Numbers Faster

Pranav writes "Using semiconductor lasers, scientists from Takushoku University, Saitama University, and NTT Corporation achieved random number rates of up to 1.7 gigabits per second, which is about 10 times higher than the second-best rate, produced using a physical phenomenon. Future work may center on devising laser schemes that can achieving rates as high as 10 Gbps."

29 of 149 comments (clear)

  1. Attention Slashdotters... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    The "Real Genius" and "sharks" jokes you're about to post are less than 1% as funny and clever as you think they are. And no, you're not making them ironically, you're making them because you really do think they're good jokes. This is because you are retarded.

    1. Re:Attention Slashdotters... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I, for one, welcome our new levelheaded overlord.

    2. Re:Attention Slashdotters... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Funny

      I, for one, welcome our new levelheaded overlord.

      Yeah, well. The Frankenstein Monster was levelheaded too.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:Attention Slashdotters... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Minor flamebait, maybe. But the thrust of the post is still worth reading. Austin Powers came out over 10 years ago. At some point (and that point was years ago), making references to it every time you see either the word shark or the word laser becomes old. It's really not funny.

    4. Re:Attention Slashdotters... by Dachannien · · Score: 5, Funny

      Austin Powers came out over 10 years ago. At some point (and that point was years ago), making references to it every time you see either the word shark or the word laser becomes old. It's really not funny.

      Shhh!

      Just know that I've got a whole bag of shhh! with your name on it.

    5. Re:Attention Slashdotters... by alx5000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Do not look into RNG with remaining eye!

      (Hah! Bet you didn't see that one coming!)

      --
      My 0.02 cents
    6. Re:Attention Slashdotters... by elFarto+the+2nd · · Score: 5, Funny

      Nope, I had already looked at 2 lasers previously.

    7. Re:Attention Slashdotters... by ian_from_brisbane · · Score: 3, Funny

      At some point (and that point was years ago), making references to it every time you see either the word shark or the word laser becomes old. It's really not funny.

      That's slashdot in a nutshell.

    8. Re:Attention Slashdotters... by TeknoHog · · Score: 3, Funny

      Seriously, it was moderately funny once upon time

      [citation needed]

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    9. Re:Attention Slashdotters... by amRadioHed · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, this is slashdot in a nutshell:

      "Help! I'm in a nutshell! How did I get into this nutshell? Look at the size of this bloody great big nutshell."

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
  2. A Solution in Search of a Problem by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 4, Informative

    Has anyone out there actually had their system bottlenecked by lack of random numbers? I had thought that the bottleneck in serving large amounts of SSL content was processing the asymmetric part of the cyrpto -- hence the need for SSL accelerator cards. It's a nice invention and a creative application of physical process, but I really want to see just one case where this would be lead to a substantial benefit.

    As an aside, computer simulations always use pseudoRNGs like the Mersenne Twister[1]. For a reasonable exponent (I use 19937 in my simulations), this results in a period > 10^6000 and virtually no correlations between adjacent calls. The notion of a computational physicist using a real physical RNG is laughable.

    [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_twister

    1. Re:A Solution in Search of a Problem by Yetihehe · · Score: 5, Interesting
      From your link to wikipedia:

      Unlike Blum Blum Shub, the algorithm in its native form is not suitable for cryptography. Observing a sufficient number of iterates (624 in the case of MT19937) allows one to predict all future iterates.

      So MT may be good enough for computational physicists, but not for strong cryptography.

      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    2. Re:A Solution in Search of a Problem by hweimer · · Score: 5, Informative

      Has anyone out there actually had their system bottlenecked by lack of random numbers?

      I know some guys doing quantum Monte Carlo simulations. And yes, fast RNGs are crucial for their algorithms.

      --
      OS Reviews: Free and Open Source Software
    3. Re:A Solution in Search of a Problem by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, I know quite a bit about (stochastic*) computational physics and the notion that "repeatable" means "can run the exact same simulation with the exact same seed and get the exact same result" is absolutely incorrect. What is meant by "repeatable" is that one can extract from the simulations some sort of macroscopic quantity (usually a thermodynamic quantity or a correlation function) whose average is consistent across many separate runs (known in the biz as the ensemble average). So, for instance, if I'm observing the coalescence of polymers into a hex-phase (as in [1]), I could measure the average number of aggregated copolymer blocks and compare those (as was done in that paper).

      Let's make an extended gambling analogy. Suppose I have a new roulette table that I want to certify that it works like it should. One suggestion (akin to what you said), would be to put the entire table under the same initial conditions as a known-good table and see if it gives the same results. A more sophisticated approach would be to make a histogram of results for a large number of independent roles and see if it converges to the proper distribution (or, in case the distribution isn't known theoretically, compare it to the distribution from a different device, also tested a large number of times). I would argue that the second method is much more powerful than the first, because it probes a more relevant value. Nobody cares whether the roulette table gave 00 the first time and 23 the second time -- we are only concerned that, on average, it gives 00 with the same probability as 23.

      In stochastic computational simulations, the same story applies. Nobody cares whether a particular simulation did X or Y or Z because that's not relevant. What is relevant is the (converged) probability that, given some starting condition, the systems ends up in X or Y or Z.

      * None of these comments apply in any way to solving deterministic systems. You don't need random numbers for those anyway.

      ** Another commenter pointed out that exact repeatability is incredibly useful for debugging purposes. That is true but that has nothing to do with reproducibility in the scientific sense of the word.

      [1] http://link.aip.org/link/?JCPSA6/128/184906/1

    4. Re:A Solution in Search of a Problem by elashish14 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not true at all, MC is the best method for doing integration in a multi-dimensional space. My research team used it a lot and it's nearly impossible without a good RNG.

      --
      I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
    5. Re:A Solution in Search of a Problem by Vellmont · · Score: 3, Interesting


      My research team used it a lot and it's nearly impossible without a good RNG.

      The question on my mind (and on many others I'm guessing) is why you would need a true RNG, and not a pseudo RNG.

      --
      AccountKiller
  3. Obligatory quote by jspenguin1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    "The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance." -- Robert R. Coveyou

  4. Obligatory joke by Fryth · · Score: 3, Funny

    They should somehow tap into phpBB. I'm already on some forums that generate more than twice this much bullshit every second :)

    1. Re:Obligatory joke by ionix5891 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      stop reading DIGG

  5. FTFA: by lobiusmoop · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Fields and applications that could benefit from their work are numerous, including computational models to solve problems in nuclear medicine, computer graphic design, and finance."

    This explains a great deal.

    --
    "I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
    1. Re:FTFA: by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Fields and applications that could benefit from their work are numerous, including computational models to solve problems in nuclear medicine, computer graphic design, and finance."

      This explains a great deal.

      No kidding. Makes you wonder if they're used in Diebold voting machines.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:FTFA: by MarkusQ · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Fields and applications that could benefit from their work are numerous, including computational models to solve problems in nuclear medicine, computer graphic design, and finance."

      This explains a great deal.

      No kidding. Makes you wonder if they're used in Diebold voting machines.

      No, not at all. Diebold voting machines are specifically designed to eliminate sources of randomness in order to deliver predictable results.

      --MarkusQ

  6. Quantum Choas by physburn · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I'm busy trying to get my head around, why partially reflecting laser light back into the laser, induces a chaotic signal. It doesn't seem right, there's a laser frequency and two reflection distances, (remember lasers have a mirror at each end). It doesn't seem complex enough to be chaotic.

    If it is chaotic and you believe in the Everett Interpretation, they've just produced the worlds fastest world splitter.

  7. Don't believe everything you read by Frequency+Domain · · Score: 5, Informative
    First off, this is old news -- the article is copyright 2007.

    Next, the article claims...

    Generating random numbers using physical sources -- which can be as simple as coin-flipping and tossing dice -- are preferred over other methods, such as computer generation, because they yield nearly ideal random numbers: those that are unpredictable, unreproducible, and statistically unbiased.

    This is garbage -- there are applications where people prefer physical sources, but those of us doing simulation work realized long ago that good algorithmic sources are far better for our needs: 1) It's mighty hard to debug a complex simulation model without reproducibility; 2) You can use the reproducibility to induce covariance between runs, greatly reducing the standard error of your estimates for a given sampling effort; 3) The distributions of algorithmically generated pseudo-random numbers are provably uniform, whereas for physical sources the best you know is that they haven't (yet) failed a hypothesis test for uniformity. Finally, the last statement about being "statistically unbiased" is utter nonsense -- unbiasedness is a property of an estimator, not a distribution.

  8. scary by ascari · · Score: 4, Funny

    I suspect encountering the words "random" and "laser" in the same sentence would be rather disconcerting to an eye surgeon. Maybe I'm off topic...

  9. Random generator needed in semi-conductors by owlstead · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We really, really need more hardware random number generators (RNG's) within CPU's. I think this is one of the more important things for Intel and AMD to work on (VIA and Intel have already working hardware RNG's for x86 as far as I know, with Intel though it is only for an embedded processor).

    Otherwise we will have to rely on "commodity" hardware to generate enough randomness to seed our pseudo-RNG's. And since a keyboard, harddisk and video cannot be trusted to be in a machine, and since using the NIC has too big a tie with the outside world, we are quickly running out of entropy sources. So a hardware RNG is definitely a very good idea.

    That does not mean that these guys have struck gold. There are already fine RNG's available for use within CPU's. I don't know how secure their device is (what happens when it is underpowered/cooled etc) but speed is not really a problem right now. Of course, if it is easy to implement in current designs: why not?

  10. Doing my part for science by Snorfalorpagus · · Score: 5, Funny

    247

  11. obligatory by Hojima · · Score: 3, Funny

    No one will need more than 637 kb of random number generation for a personal computer.

  12. If, as poster states, by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

    this can be treated as a "classical physics" problem (and I have every reason to believe his statement about QM length re: a roulette ball), then at least theoretically the statement is correct.

    But theory and practice are often vastly different. In a case like this, the information necessary to account for all the relevant initial conditions, and the calculations necessary to go from there to final result, are so vast as to make it ludicrous to even consider trying such a feat. Further, we don't even have the expertise to make such calculations even if we had such "perfect" information.

    Think about it: even with classic physics, this is an awesome candidate for the "butterfly effect", in which miniscule differences in initial conditions could cause highly significant differences in the outcome.

    See, you don't just need to know the mass of the ball, and its velocity, and such. You would have to know the exact size and mass of the bearings, and exactly how much lubricant had been applied. You would have to know the exact size and shape of the little fences between the numbers on the wheel (air resistance), and calculate Reynolds numbers for them. You would have to know how many people are around the wheel (if any) and how they are breathing. Is someone wearing perfume? Will that affect someone else's breathing? Even without people, did someone add a little bit extra glue at this particular spot, during the manufacturing process?

    And so on.

    It simply would not be a practical excercise. Even in controlled conditions, and without confounding factors, two well-lubed roulette wheels are almost certain to give you significantly different results, no matter how you try.

    Theory is great, but reality trumps.