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Is a 'Katrina-Like' Space Storm Brewing?

pilsner.urquell writes "A newly released NASA report warns that the world has forgotten the power of the sun, creating a technological society susceptible like never before to large infrastructure damage from solar storms. According to the report, the world has grown so dependent on modern technologies without respect of what the sun can and has done, that it's risking major communications, finance, transportation, government and even emergency services disruptions."

38 of 356 comments (clear)

  1. I know the solution by alexj33 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Space Carbon Credits are the answer. Make the check out to me.

    1. Re:I know the solution by beckerist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have an honest question:
      How many people here truly think that if there were an anomaly that they would be able to survive without
      A) Electricity
      B) A grocery store
      C) Modern medicine -and most importantly-
      D) Fresh (clean) water

      I know for a fact that I'd safely have A, B and D. I live in the woods anyway, huge garden, plenty of animals to slaughter for tasty bbq and we have a very high water-table with multiple ponds around. Not the cleanest but I'd figure out a way to survive.
      I'm just wondering about statistics here.

    2. Re:I know the solution by mulvane · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What do you do when people with guns realize this and force you off your land? I had the same thing at my last place, including 4K of windpower and 2K of solar backed by enough batteries to last me through 3 days. Everything that could be gas was gas. 800gal propane tank. What was I to do when that ran out? Someone would find out I was living comfy and then more people would decide they need what I had more than me.

    3. Re:I know the solution by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 4, Funny

      WRT to item C on your list: birth control pills. It would be a completely different world without that medical wonder. Suddenly having hundreds of millions more fertile women in this world would cause lots o' problems.

      --
      the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
    4. Re:I know the solution by afabbro · · Score: 3, Insightful

      WRT to item C on your list: birth control pills. It would be a completely different world without that medical wonder. Suddenly having hundreds of millions more fertile women in this world would cause lots o' problems.

      Hardly. The vast, vast majority of women on this planet (measured in billions) do not use any form of birth control. A few percentage points' worth more would make zero difference.

      --
      Advice: on VPS providers
  2. finance by thhamm · · Score: 5, Funny

    "... risking major ... finance, ... disruptions."

    who needs the sun for that?

    1. Re:finance by oldspewey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm beginning to think that in general, modern society is a Perfect Storm factory.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
  3. Rather dramatic by DeadPixels · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Space Katrina" sounds rather dramatic, but wouldn't the atmosphere lessen the damage? Granted, it's still a valid concern that should be considered, but TFA seems like it's a bit more "doomsday" and a little less "this could happen".

    1. Re:Rather dramatic by TheKidWho · · Score: 3, Informative

      The damage comes about from EM radiation overloading the power grid. The atmosphere isn't going to do much to stop that.

    2. Re:Rather dramatic by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 4, Informative

      It wouldn't. The damage isn't from the particle cloud itself, it's from the ripples it sets up in the Earth's magnetosphere. This makes the magnetic field move relative to any conductors (like power lines and circuit traces) in it. That causes an electric current to be induced in the conductor. The atmosphere doesn't affect the magnetic field at all, so it won't provide any protection from the disturbance.

    3. Re:Rather dramatic by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Lessen? Yes. Could it still be catastrophic? Yes.

      First, every satellite would be "down". That means no GPS. No communication satellites. No weather satellites.

      Second, a violent storm can overload the power grid. Which means days without electricity - assuming important components aren't overloaded and destroyed.

      Third, cell phones, radios and other wireless devices could go down. Your home network will probably be fine. But forget using your 3G phone for anything. Your cordless phone will probably be OK to call emergency services but they won't be able to get them on the radio to tell them where to go.

      So, as long as you don't depend on modern technology, you should be fine.

      --
      Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
    4. Re:Rather dramatic by dtolman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Think the report is kidding around? Go lookup what happened in Quebec on March 13th, 1989. The whole power system was knocked out in seconds. Then go read about the kind of storm they're worried about - the solar storm of 1859.

      It actually caused telegraph wires to short out across Europe and the Americas - some even caught on fire. If that happened now, it would cause global power outages, fried computer equipment (including the ones that control your fancy electronic car), and everything except for milsats in orbit could be knocked out.

      So will people be directly killed? No. But when the fly-by-wire planes fall out of the sky, your new car won't work, your cell phones are dead, power is dead, the internet is down, and landlines fried - I bet it won't take long for a lot of people to die anyway.

    5. Re:Rather dramatic by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Third, cell phones, radios and other wireless devices could go down. Your home network will probably be fine. But forget using your 3G phone for anything. Your cordless phone will probably be OK to call emergency services but they won't be able to get them on the radio to tell them where to go.

      It won't affect terrestrial radio, only satellite communications. If you can call 911 then they have power, if they have power their radios will work. Cell phones won't work well if at all, you'll likely not have any long distance phone service at all.

      It won't bring us back to the stone age, only back to about 1960. It will be an inconvinience, not the end of the world.

    6. Re:Rather dramatic by jonfr · · Score: 3, Informative

      Please check the NOAA solar storm warning levels. They explain how far back to the stone age we will go when a big (X level solar flare) is going to hit the Earth.

      http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/NOAAscales/index.html#GeomagneticStorms

      On the communications. It is not just satellite communications that will get disrupted. But also HF, UHF and other type of communication. Your GSM (2G or 3G really doesn't matter) might work, but then it might not work. It is any body's guess.

      People might be out of power for days or weeks in the worst case.

    7. Re:Rather dramatic by init100 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Once a surge protector trips, its off until its manually reset.

      Not necessarily. Many simple surge protectors just use a couple of varistors and gas discharge tubes connected between the wires. These devices have a variable resistance that is extremely high during normal operation but decreases sharply above a certain threshold voltage, and thus provide a short-circuit path for excess current to take. After the voltage returns to the rated level, the resistance again becomes extremely high, cutting off the short-circuit.

      You are probably confusing surge protectors with circuit breakers. The latter are far too slow to protect sensitive electronics from damage from a voltage surge.

  4. Only thing to do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I guess there's only one thing to do - Destroy the sun!

  5. And now for something completely different by jerep · · Score: 5, Funny

    A study funded by NASA has flagged up yet another terrible hazard for those no longer able to get excited about nuclear war, global pandemics, terrorism, climate change, economic meltdown and asteroid strike.

    I for one welcome our weekly disaster overlords.

  6. Re:Life on Earth by DeadPixels · · Score: 3, Funny

    Nothing says "you screwed up" like a nice plague!

  7. Cold War & EMP by gpronger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At the height of the cold war, this was one of the concerns. As I recall the detonation of a nuclear device in space would cause a massive EMF pulse (Electro-Magnetic force Pulse) that could trash electronics. (Yes, one on the ground is obviously much worse, but this would allow a government to "blind" an enemy without collateral damage.)

    It seems that with the end of the cold war, and the fact that an EMP can occur naturally, has been forgotten.

    Greg P

  8. There's no Canada like French Canada by i_ate_god · · Score: 4, Informative

    Quebec knows what they're talking about.

    --
    I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
    1. Re:There's no Canada like French Canada by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dude, I live in Québec and I've never had any such prob{#`AX%$G{%5&`+'2h${`%&NO CARRIER

  9. the term "katrina-like" makes me angry... by converter · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It really, really bugs me. A lot. I know they are only using it to give the impression of a powerful and disastrous storm. It just seems that likening a coronal mass ejection to a "katrina-like" event is as realistic as likening a tornado to that little swirl in your bathtub drain.

    1. Re:the term "katrina-like" makes me angry... by Kozz · · Score: 4, Funny

      It was the best the author could do, under the circumstances. It was exceedingly difficult to draw comparisons with Libraries of Congress, Volkswagen Beetles or football fields.

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    2. Re:the term "katrina-like" makes me angry... by Rogerborg · · Score: 4, Funny

      I agree. People that use hyperbole are worse than Hitler.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    3. Re:the term "katrina-like" makes me angry... by ShadowBlasko · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would not say that.
      For the most part, there was no way to save most of the victims of the tsunami.
      Many of the victims of Katrina could well have been saved had their been ample planning and communication in regards to a disaster that they knew was coming sometime.
      Most of the deaths of Katrina were caused by failure to plan, failure to listen, or failure to implement disaster plans.

      I can see where the author is coming from.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order- Ed Howdershelt Via Tass
  10. Mr. Faraday reporting by assemblerex · · Score: 5, Funny

    Seriously guys, I figured this out ages ago... -Faraday

    1. Re:Mr. Faraday reporting by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey you, how did you get out?! Get back in your cage!!!

  11. Arthur C Clarke anyone? by thebheffect · · Score: 4, Interesting

    At least he didn't forget. One of the events he mentioned in his writings was the massive corruption of magnetically stored data. I believe it was his 2001 series (2001, 2010, etc...) where he mentioned a devastating solar storm that wiped out a vast majority of Earth's digital records.

  12. Re:Bread by eln · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think the standard protocol for these sorts of things is to sell everything you own, stockpile as many guns as possible, and move into a cabin somewhere deep in the mountains. Disconnect from all power sources, and discontinue use of any electronic devices. Grow or hunt all your own food, and try to avoid contact with the outside world as much as possible. Also, if you could learn to enjoy drinking your own urine, that would be a big help.

  13. I hope it happens. by plasmacutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Private and semi-private energy companies, like all lnstitutions promoted by competition to cut costs, suffer the malady of products and infrastructure "built by the lowest bidder".

    Because of the nature of pure capitalism and even mixed economies, it is against the interests of any individual actor to create a more robust electronic infrastructure.

    This is a role for the dreaded "R" word..ok i'll say it.. RRRegulation.

    This is why i hope a solar storm like the one this article fear-mongers about happens.

    When it does, various electronic infrastructure companies (power, telecom, etc) will happily welcome a law which sets a minimum level of EMP hardening and other standards.

    It's important to note that, despite raising their costs a bit, it won't matter to them so long as their competition suffers the same way.

    The cost will likely be passed on to the consumer, but "main street" will also be happy to pay an extra 3 bucks on a few bills knowing region-wide blackouts of power, phone, and internet will no longer be common, especially with a catastrophic failure fresh in their minds.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  14. Kanye West says: by G-Man · · Score: 4, Funny

    "George Bush doesn't care about BlackBerries."

    1. Re:Kanye West says: by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Kanye West was wrong. George Bush cares about Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Condoleesa Rice, Barack Obama, and their ilk. It's poor people George Bush don't like, and their skin color is unimportant.

      Racism is a tool of the rich, meant to take your eye of the real problem, classism, and meant to keep poor and middle class whites and blacks at each others' throats so they won't see the REAL enemy, the rich bastards who are keeping the poor and middle class of all races down.

      Bernie Madoff stole fifty billion dollars and got out on ten million bail, if I get caught stealing fifty thousand dollars will I get out on ten dollars bail? And why am I the only one asking that question?

  15. Re:Just a thought by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Right. If people had lower taxes, the first thing they'd think of to spend the money on would be EMP-resistant electronics.

    They would forgo extra vacations, faster cars, Jacuzzis, expensive Champagne and plastic surgery, so that they could upgrade to a rad-hardened TV set. They would show off their Faraday-enclosed gear at parties to impress their friends.

    I'm 100% confident that's what everyone would do, and solar storms would be no longer be a risk to anyone.

  16. Re:Another fine mess... by pitchpipe · · Score: 4, Funny

    Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

    --
    Look where all this talking got us, baby.
  17. I can imagine the uproar... by mindwanderer · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...in the World of Warcraft forums when this happens. I predict threats of cancellation for inadequate solar-storm protection and demands for a punch-card character-backup system.

    --
    :wq
  18. Re:My bogus hypothesis by evanbd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oddly enough, that is precisely the problem. A Faraday cage works because the conductive shield allows eddy currents to flow, which create fields in opposition to the original event. This prevents things inside the cage from seeing what happened outside. Unfortunately, the cage in this case is our power grid -- and the eddy currents in it are precisely the things causing concern.

  19. Destroy the sun by OrangeTide · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We must destroy the sun immediately to avoid these disasters (it will also correct global warming).

    The Amish manage to live without electricity, perhaps we should learn how to live without it ourselves for a few weeks. That skill might come in useful in the future.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  20. Hurricane Katrina/Ike by agpc · · Score: 4, Informative

    I lived through Hurricane Ike and have several relatives who lived through Hurricane Katrina. We went 14 days without electricity and I came really close to losing my mind. Two things I learned: 1. the worst part of not having electricity is not the lack of air condition (although that did very much suck). The worst part was the darkness at night. Basic tasks become impossible in the dark. Once the sun sets you go to sleep because there isn't much else to do. Flashlights are great until you forget where you put the flashlight and its pitch black. Cell phones are very useful for illumination until they lose their charge. 2. Ice is the most valuable commodity when you don't have electricity. Stores will eventually restock bottled water, canned food, ect... Ice was the one product that I saw people literally fighting over and huge pallets of it would disappear within minutes of being placed. Another thing - if you are involved in a massive disruption you are pretty much on your own in that you cannot rely on police or ambulance to come to your aid - they are overwhelmed. One good aspect of the whole ordeal was that I met and *gasp* actually talked to many of my neighbors. It was interesting to see that human beings are actually quite good at banding together during times of extreme duress. Of course, once the power was restored we went back to our indifferent ways but at least I know my neighbors now! Finally, contrary to popular belief, there was no mass hysteria, no large group of roving bandits breaking into stores or looting homes. I have a feeling that potential criminals knew they would have been shot on site because people were on edge. This is Texas after all.