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Layoffs at Microsoft, Intel, and IBM

Normally I try to avoid posting straight business news, but I think that these 3 stories combine to something meaningful. Muleguy noted Microsoft is laying off 5,000, Mspangler reports that Intel is cutting 5-6k, while nonyabidness afraid4myjob submitted that IBM Layoffs have begun with no number, but estimates as high as 16,000.

46 of 623 comments (clear)

  1. WTF is up with IBM? by Prien715 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So yesterday, IBM posted great profits that beat wall street estimates. And today they're doing layoffs? That makes no financial sense to me. Why should any company lay off people just because "Everyone else is doing it"?

    --
    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    1. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't know about Intel or Microsoft, but IBM is at a 20 year high for employment; the highest since it dropped 150k workers in the 90's.

      Even though they managed to pull some solid growth last year, they're on the heavy side for a significant down turn. For a company that deals in services and hardware, it'd be shortsighted not to tighten up a bit.

      Still, no fun. I sympathize with the workers over there. (Before anyone starts calling me heartless; I work for a newspaper company. My department has lost almost 70% of it's staff in the last 3 years. )

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    2. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by momerath2003 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I work for a newspaper company. My department has lost almost 70% of it's staff in the last 3 years.

      Well, with apostrophe errors like that, it's no surprise to me!

      --
      I had but a simple dream, to destroy all humans.
    3. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by Skreems · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sadly it sounds like that's not what they're doing. The articles and the leaked Balmer memo mention a number of divisions that will be included in the cuts, and product development is suspiciously lacking. It sounds like they're cutting all the fringe divisions (legal, HR, R&D, etc) and leaving the developers alone entirely. Which is really a shame, since they have a number of completely incompetent devs who need to go as well.

      --
      Slashdot needs a "-1, Wrong" moderation option.
      The Urban Hippie
    4. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by daem0n1x · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ah, I love the smell of Capitalism in the morning!

    5. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've got news for you, kid: After firing the 10% worst-performing staff, a company STILL has a 10% worst-performing staff, along with newly lowered moral.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    6. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by diamondsw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > IBM is at a 20 year high for employment; the highest since it dropped 150k workers in the 90's.

      Yes, but where? We've done a huge amount of hiring in India, Argentina, and Brazil, and have been laying off US employees left and right.

      We are absolutely cut to the bone in the US, and have been mildly dysfunctional for the last couple years as a result. Every time you try to get anything done, people have either been laid off or reorg'ed to death, and no one knows who to talk to anymore. Last year I was reorg'ed four times, and I can't even tell you who I report to beyond my first-line manager (seriously - I don't know off-hand).

      --
      I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
    7. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by murdocj · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I had a boss who thought like that. He wanted to annually cut the bottom 10%. The problem is defining who that bottom 10% is... some of his buddies were jerks who deserved to disappear, but no chance they would go. Not to mention this constant mentality of "we have to fire people" is horrible for morale.

      Basically the people who get fired are the ones farthest from the boss who wants to do the firing. He just tells everyone they have to fire 10%, and then he gets to sleep well at night, while everyone else suffers the agonies of the damned.

    8. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Personally I will never hire an ex-Microsoftie; they don't have morals or ethics that are worth a damn, or they wouldn't have worked there in the first place.

      I'm not willing to categorically eliminate tens of thousands of people like that. I've worked in enough organizations to realize that no matter how fucked up a company may be, any individual working there can still be competent.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    9. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by Unnngh! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My recollection is that the IBM layoffs of yesteryear focused heavily on senior staff, cutting many of their jobs to avoid paying pensions. They hired a lot of the people back as contractors afterward. I wouldn't bet on the junior staff being at the heavy end of the cut...

    10. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      hey man everyone who actually works for ibm knows that the real bloat is up top. if ibm wanted to save money they would take the ax to the ridiculous tripple tiered management. then you wouldnt need to make excuses for getting rid of your best guys. (and they were the best)

      stop drawing blood from the stone already and cut all the fat from up top. Why does every customer need 3 project mgrs??? why are new tools introduced and the old ones not repaired? why is every data center walk through an exercise in tickling 10 managers butts with a feather?

      its only a matter of time before they begin to feed on themselves.

      bunch of "personalities"

    11. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Personally I will neverhire an ex-Microsoftie; they don't have morals or ethics that are worth a damn, or they wouldn't have worked there in the first place.

      s'okay. Fortunately for the world, with an attitude like that, chances are high that you'll never be in a position to make that kind of decision.

    12. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by homer_s · · Score: 4, Informative

      what's left are foreigners living off the dole.

      I'm on H1b. If I lose my job, I have to either find another job or be out of the country in a week.

    13. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by murdocj · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, I've seen it once, and I can guarantee you it didn't work. In our case, we had already had pretty massive layoffs, so any deadwood was long gone. The basic problem is that you probably aren't going to get rid of the lowest performing 10%, you're gone to get rid of the 10% that the boss doesn't know or doesn't care about, regardless of how valuable those people are.

      And on a basic level, I strongly object to the idea that it's a good business practice to just keep turning up the heat on your employees. I worked for many, many years for a very successful company that thrived because we kept a strong, informed staff that knew how to work together. We were acquired by a "high pressure, gotta deliver now, fire the bottom 10%, no time to do it right just do it!" company ,and the result was dismal failure after dismal failure. So to say the least, I'm not impressed.

    14. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by hobo+sapiens · · Score: 5, Funny

      Everything that is old is new again, including the classic IBM joke:

      Two lions escape from the zoo. They decide to split up and meet back in two months to see how the other is doing.

      Two months later, one lion is scrawny and beat up, the other is fat and happy. The scrawny beat up lion says, "I went to the park and started eating children. The police and national guard came after me and I haven't stopped running since. How are you so well fed?"

      The second lion replies, "Easy! I Just hid outside the IBM office and ate a manager every day. Nobody even noticed!"

      --
      blah blah blah
    15. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As much as I would like to agree, I can't. The problem with this is that you can't just pick some random American and expect him to do some technical job requiring a serious education. Remember, since companies have been hiring H1Bs for so long (since before I started college, long ago), fewer and fewer American students have been going into "hard" professions, namely engineering, and have opted for other professions where they weren't so likely to be laid off at the first hint of economic problems. As a result, when companies want to hire engineers, the only place they can get them is from other countries, where people train in engineering in large numbers (China and India, mainly). When I was in engineering school in the 90s, probably less than half my classmates were American; many were not immigrants, but students on F-1 student visas. In graduate school, the numbers were even worse, as most Americans, wanting to make money (and needing to pay back student loans), opt to go straight into the workforce rather than spend more time starving in graduate school.

      If you want to hire someone to do, for instance, deep submicron IC design, or even just "simply" VLSI design with Verilog, you can't just take some laid-off autoworker from Detroit and train him to do this in a week (or a month, or a year, etc.). It would be like trying to retrain some guy to be a physician. These jobs require many years of education. A smart society would value workers with technical skills, and find some way of protecting them from job loss every time the economy turns sour (about every 5-10 years), and reward them well so they don't decide it's better to just become real estate agents or start their own companies installing pools (as engineers I've met have done). Our society isn't that smart. What's the solution for this? I really don't know; they tried a command economy in the Soviet Union a while back, where high-level scientists were kept employed doing scientific work no matter what, but obviously that system didn't work out too well. But our system doesn't seem to work that well either, as it's short-sighted, and doesn't reward people for doing difficult (but non-managerial) technical jobs.

    16. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Joking aside, most of the "journalism" I read today from major news outlets is filled with apostrophe errors, spelling errors, grammar errors, and just plain poor writing style. Go back 25 years or more and compare newspapers from then with newspapers from today; today's "journalists" can't write for shit. My local paper is even worse: "too-to-two" errors, words left out, just plain unintelligible writing, and more.

      Newspapers aren't just being killed by the internet; they're being killed because no one wants to pay for such poor quality writing any more, especially when many papers are so blatantly biased in their reporting.

    17. Re:WTF is up with IBM? by homer_s · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The kind of people breaking immigration laws are people who work in hourly jobs/etc. The engineers who're here are not going to stick around with no job - they can go back home and earn more money with their 'US experience'. And even if they stay here, they cannot collect any dole.

      I'm generally against protectionism, but in a recession,

      If protectionism is good in a recession, then it must be good all the time! I have no problem with people who oppose free trade. I'll tell them they're wrong, but atleast they are consistent.
      The people who are selective in their views on trade are the ones I watch out for - "trade in A, which I consume, is good, but trade in B, which I produce, is bad".

  2. Consider it ammo by ColonelPanic · · Score: 5, Funny

    There's 5,000 new empty chairs to fling around in Redmond!

    --
    "Skill shows through where genius wears thin." -Wittgenstein || Religion: uniting aviation and architecture.
    1. Re:Consider it ammo by SterlingSylver · · Score: 5, Funny

      Are they cutting 5,000 jobs to free up chairs, or are they down 5,000 chairs so they need to cut jobs?

  3. Some perspective. by Albanach · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Microsoft are cutting up to 5,000 from a total of 90,000 employees - 5.5% of its workforce.

    IBM might cut 16,000 from a workforce of 387,000, a cut of 4%.

    Intel are cutting up to 6,000 from a workforce of 84,000 - 7% of jobs.

    1. Re:Some perspective. by gad_zuki! · · Score: 5, Interesting

      >It's not that simple. A lot of those visas do in fact go to workers for jobs that an employer can't fill locally.

      Yeah right. Im sure thats true a certain percentage of the time but the scenario "why pay someone 80k when we can get a slave for 24k" plays itself out too.

    2. Re:Some perspective. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah right. Im sure thats true a certain percentage of the time but the scenario "why pay someone 80k when we can get a slave for 24k" plays itself out too.

      The problem with H1-Bs is that both of you are right. You're giving two extreme sides of a continuous spectrum of arguments. Increasing supply of labor with constant demand will lower equilibrium price, so yes you can get wage slaves. Likewise, decreasing supply will raise price, so you'll get Americans demanding $10/hr to tend fields.

      Neither of these scenarios are wrong, it's a comparatively simple market situation. But the government is going to have to clarify what it means by "no available person" to fill a job. At what price? It's the law that's out of touch with economics.

    3. Re:Some perspective. by dwarg · · Score: 4, Funny

      Do the words "Smoot-Hawley" mean anything to you?

      Well Smoot was a cornerback with the Minnesota Vikings for a while, but he's best known for the "love-boat" scandal that made the team a laughing stock.

      And Hawley Minnesota is a small town near my hometown that we played high school football against.

      So I guess it has something to do with international recognition of Minnesota football?

    4. Re:Some perspective. by rickb928 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not quite.

      Maine is known, among other things, for the blueberry crop. This used to be picked mostly by Micmac Indians from Maine and Canada, and high-schoolers (like me) and other locals that would do what is by any measure back-breaking work for pretty good pay. I made $600 a week for a month in 1970-1972. Not bad for a student. The majority of the crop was picked that way through the 80's.

      Today, maybe a fifth is picked by hand, and most of that by Hispanic migrants. The Micamcs mostly pick on an Indian reservation farm.

      The reality is that the major producers prefer migrant workers from away for several reasons. The one I hear the most is 'lower pay'. Just the way it is.

      I hear a complaint sometimes that migrants, illegals, etc. take jobs Americans won't do. Mostly, I suspect this is because we 'Americans' don't want to do some jobs for the pay some employers want to pay. Not the same thing as 'not wanting' a job. How did toilets get cleaned before we had a serious illegal immigrant problem?

      But the H1-B problem is a particularly nasty slap in the face. There are so many stories of qualified citizens not able to find work in fields where H1-B workers were being recruited that I'm not going to list any. Not hard to find.

      I work for a company that uses both H1-B and other immigrants liberally for many sorts of IT work. Many of us are at a loss to explain how they can claim there are no US citizens available for the wor, the skill set is not unique, and neither is the workload.

      One clever way around that they use is to contract with an offshore firm. No justification needed. the biggest number of these offshore workers are part of, you guessed it - IBM.

      We'll be dealing with this soon enough, won't we?

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    5. Re:Some perspective. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How many H1-B empoyees working for 24k do you actually know?

  4. Microsoft calls for government bailout by David+Gerard · · Score: 5, Funny

    SKID ROW, Redmond, Friday - Microsoft Corporation has enacted swingeing layoffs in mid-January after the failure of its stock buyback program, and has called for a government bailout in the face of the credit crunch.

    "Vastly popular operating systems like Vista just aren't selling," said marketing marketer emeritus Bill Gates, "and it's all because people aren't confident to spend their money. In fact, they didn't start buying it in 2007 because they were expecting this even then. A subsidy to buy good, honest American computer operating systems is essential to the health of the economy, or my part of it."

    Should the Big One of American virtual office supplies fail, economists predict that it could free up millions of dollars in business spending and provide a devastating boost to an economy reeling from the impact of the credit crunch.

    Hiring in most Microsoft divisions has frozen in the last six months and 30GB Zunes are already on suicide watch. "The workload's impossible to keep up with," said blog technical evangelist Gary M. Stewart. "I've even been answering Slashdot comments on Boycott Novell or Groklaw. It's impossible to keep track of! Anyway, you're just another Twitter sockpuppet. Or Mini-Microsoft. Admit it."

    Additional bailouts have been hooked on the bill as riders for HD-DVD, eight-track cartridges, 78rpm gramophones and Babbage analytical engine gear manufacturers.

    Senators have stated they will only bail the company out with a change in top management. "What the shit," said Linus Torvalds as his draft notice arrived.

    --
    http://rocknerd.co.uk
  5. When will it end? by jollyreaper · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Economists like to pretend that they're dealing with a hard science but they are wrong, so very wrong. Economics is certainly a complex field of study but it is also one of the squishiest sciences there is. Economics is psychology with graphs and math. You can talk about supply and demand, this curve and that, but we're ultimately talking about human psychology. You can't use normal logic to figure this stuff out, you have to work with crowd dynamics, herd instinct, quit talking about how people should behave and pay attention to how they really behave.

    If you want to understand how everything is going pear-shaped, just look at the Great White club fire. Huge crowd, small venue, and the band's pyrotechnics set the place on fire. Rationally speaking, there's no reason why anyone had to die. There were sufficient doors and sufficient time for a calm and orderly evacuation. And our economists are the ones who would look at that situation and not quite grasp why there was a panic, a human log-jam at the door, and a whole lot of dead bodies. "That wasn't rational behavior! That was irrational exuberance, or maybe irrational shit-the-bed terror. The problem here is that my observations of this event do not fit my models."

    That's what we're seeing in this economy, a fire in a club. Everyone is working to maximize their own survival even though it will harm the chances for the group as a whole. Companies are shedding jobs everywhere, getting work is damned near impossible, and we've got a negative feedback loop that nobody seems to be able to break. And nobody wants to take a look at the wall where the writing stands hundreds of feet high -- "we need to reform the way we're doing business and this will change our entire economy as we've come to know it." The thought is too frightening.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:When will it end? by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well psychology is a real experimental science. Economics isn't. That is why economics is strongly affected by politics. Do you ever hear of liberal and conservative chemists? Or even psychologists? Furthermore, economics doesn't want to acknowledge the findings of psychology, so it is just plain wrong on many things. Economics is a social science like sociology. It is a discipline that attempts to be reasonable, but is ultimately not guided by the discipline of experimental results or even the need to only propose testable ideas. There is a lot of sophisticated math in economics, but without experiments that is just a rich toolbox to make up any story you want about anything.

    2. Re:When will it end? by PoiBoy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I suggest you study advanced economics more critically. Having a PhD in economics from a top-tier program, yes I agree that armchair economists are much different from real academic economists. However, I also think there is a tendency for many economists to place too much reliance on ornate mathematical and statistical models and not enough time spent stepping away from the computer, looking out the window, and asking whether or not those models are realistic. Note that looking out the window and seeing what people are actually doing is NOT the same thing as running 10,000 regressions to try and prove your model is correct. Common sense has no substitute.

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    3. Re:When will it end? by mysticgoat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bullshit. The money that governments are currently spending on bail-outs and stimulus programs is not coming from any private parties. It is coming from the future.

      It is coming from the future in the form of debt. It is based on the faith that eventually there will be enough wealth to cover the tremendous costs of yesterday's bad decisions and today's corrective actions. These debts are high risk since there is no collateral to back them. However, if these become bad debts, that means we're screwed anyway. We'll be back in the day when it is more valuable to know how to clean a pig sty than to know Python or even the Pythagorean theorem.

      It isn't like we've got much choice in the matter. Marketplace decisions for the last few years have left us with trillions more dollars on paper than there is real wealth to back, and with all the risk management schemes, there is no way to attach the shortfall to any one region or segment. It's now a general system failure. We're screwed if we don't act, and we might be screwed no matter what we do.

      It would be nice to see those who were responsible for watching the marketplace who should have raised the alarm about this five years ago hung screaming by their cojones in a Texas desert. That wouldn't help us out of the bind the world is now in, but I and others would feel a bit better if that were to happen. Which should count for a little something.

  6. Steve Ballmer's memo to employees by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here is a link to the entire memo Steve sent to employees regarding the layoffs.

    No, it's not my blog nor am I affiliated in any way with the site.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  7. When did things change? by Hodar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Once upon a time, a company had loyalty to it's people, and the worker's were expected to have some loyalty to the company. If the company had a rough quarter or a poor year, people pulled together and worked harder. A company USED to do layoffs to avoid going bankrupt. Workers viewed each other as extended family members - it was common for workers to get together at each other's homes on weekends and holidays. Families got to know each other, work was done in a 'team' enviroment; and if you pulled your weight and did your job - you could expect to retire with the company you worked for. 20 years of service was celebrated, opportunties for promotion were biased such that someone who had shown loyalty to the company had first dibs, over someone coming in from the outside.

    Today, despite record profits, companies close plants and terminate people - so the few executives can reap huge bonus's. Getting laid off by a plant closing, business downturn, or poor managment decisions punishes employees who were powerless to avoid the mistake - but end up taking full responsibility in that they have to sell their homes, and re-locate to find work elsewhere. With the cost of housing - this means that the 401K money must be robbed today, so they can continue to make mortgage payments while they try to sell their home, and have money to bring to closing when their home sells for less than what they paid for it.

    I've been there, I've had my retirment almost depleted because companies transferred jobs to India, a plant closing, terminating a project I was involved with, a company purchased and moved overseas, and a company that failed due to poor managment. Now after 20 years, I finally have solid career.

    When did all this change? Why did this change? It certainly hasn't been for the better - for the USA used to lead the world in production, in technology and development. People used to matter, now each of us is just a cog in the company machine. We are all expendable, and will be dropped on a whim. I wonder why.

    1. Re:When did things change? by Punko · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It changed when your company went public. As soon as the first duty of the company changed from working owners to non-employee shareholders, employees are simply meaningless. As a shareholder of our own privately held firm, our employees are our number one asset. Layoffs, when necessary due to lower service demands, are keenly felt. If our firm was to go public, we would morph into the same heartless money machines as all other publicly traded firms. You want employees to matter? Don't go public.

      --
      If only we could fall into a woman's arms without falling into her hands
    2. Re:When did things change? by Hodar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've done the Dollar Dance before. You end up losing, and losing big.

      Work for company 'x' for 10 years. Get rewards, bonus's and patents. Leverage to get a 50% raise at company 'y'. But wait, company 'y' expects you to single-handedly pull them out of years worth of poor investments and bad managment decisions. A year later the plant closes. Now you and 5,000 of your fellow workers (all skilled) are competing for limited job opportunties in the area. This translates to a glut of houses on the market at the same time, as you have to move to find work. Sell your home for a loss (what color Lexus do you want me to buy you?)and move somewhere else to try to recover. But wait, this company is underfunded and goes down too. Hmmm, I've almost doubled my income in 3 years, moved 2x and am out several tens of thousands of dollars because I had to pay to buy and sell multiple homes - each one at a loss.

      Do this for 10 years, and watch your retirement approach depletion. When you find a stable job, that pays a fair salary - you will give very SERIOUS thought before you consider jumping ship for a job that may pay more in the short term, but may mean you are on the job market involuntarily in a year or two. "Slow and steady wins the race" is a very wise saying. I was unwise in that I chose to ignore it.

  8. Re:Is it cos I iz black? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    To be fair, it was Hoover's fault. Not that he could know; most of the techniques we use today to try and mitigate the effects of a long term downturn weren't even invented during Hoover's administration. It wasn't (at that time) recognized that unregulated capitalism was perfectly capable of committing suicide.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  9. Only one safe place in a time like this ... by oldspewey · · Score: 5, Funny

    I know somebody who works at IBM. They work on a project that supports HR department's requirements when they are doing big layoffs.

    In a kafkaesque sort of way, they have job security just so long as things suck and there are additional layoffs coming down the pipeline.

    --
    If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
  10. Re:Perfectly normal by Hodar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Jack Welch, when he took over GE started the whole 10% of your under-achiever hog-wash.

    Now, if you have poor achievers in your company, who have been there for decades - as GE had - perhaps a 1 time 'cleansing' is necessary. But, if you are doing your interviewing competently, and are teaching and mentoring your new hires - to continuously 'fire' 10% of the workforce is not only stupid, it's counter productive.

    Consider, how long does it take a person to learn his job function and all the nuances that take it from being merely fulfilled, but where he can then magnify it? Given the proper motivation, a below average performer can become a top-performer. If a person knows what's expected, is shown how to do this, and is encouraged - he will either refuse to conform (termination case) or he will improve. I've seen this, I've done this and it works.

    Other employees see this, and morale improves. People do not want to leave that group/company. Motorola USED to be like this. When Samsung came into town, they had to offer 20%+ salary bumps to attract Motorola employees to leave. Why? Because the people at Motorola knew that they were 'safe', that they had a career and a future with the company. Then Hector Ruiz came along and killed Motorola, before moving on to AMD and killing them.

    I do not subscribe to the 10% cull; because you very quickly come to the point that you are cutting good people, and replacing them with good people who you will fire in a year or so. This creates a hostile work environment (why should I welcome you, help you or agree to work with you - if I'm competing against you to keep my job?), slows projects down (people shift departments constantly, at the slightest rumor of a reduction in headcount in a particular division), and you spend a great deal of your time where 90% of your employees are waiting for 10% of the team to come up to speed with their job requirements.

    Show me a company that embraces the 10% cull, and I'll show you a company that is on the way down the tubes. Companies that terminate the poor performers, not due to some obscure quota, but do to performance - tend to retain their employees for the long haul. IBM used to be famous for this, and they rose to world domination. Motorola used to embrace this, and they used to have a world-class semiconductor market, communications division, automotive parts, space, micro-controllers and cell phone groups. The people make a company great - not the managment. Management has never made a company great, but poor managment has certainly killed more than a few.

  11. Job OPENINGS by CrazyTalk · · Score: 4, Informative

    Go to the Microsoft Careers home page and search for job openings - there are six new openings for TODAY alone - 853 openings altogether. Wonder how many of those will eventually be closed?

  12. Just ignore it? by AlpineR · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Previous economic discussions on Slashdot have included several posts with the sentiment: "I'm choosing to ignore this recession. I still have a job so I'm going to continue as before. The only economic problem we have is psychological."

    Are you still so certain that your job will remain when another 5% of your customers are about to become unemployed? Are you still so optimistic that you could easily find a new job with a million other educated and experienced workers back on the job hunt too?

    Even if this recession were purely psychological, it has set a wave in motion that will splash around for a while causing layoffs and bankruptcies. If there is a rational basis for the economic shrinkage then it could be even worse. I wonder how long it will take to return to growth and optimism.

  13. Re:Is it cos I iz black? by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's because Hoover sucks

  14. Sun also had layoffs today by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    15% layoff - or in that figure. We've known about it for months, coming, too. Today is the "notification day" for many Sun employees, too ;(

  15. Which means no hiring by dlsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And here I am looking for a job at IBM, Intel, Sun, . . . . Maybe I should take the in-laws up on their offer to let their son-in-law with a CS PhD live in the basement for a few years.

  16. Re:Perfectly normal by CrazyTalk · · Score: 4, Funny

    One other advantage of the 10% cut pioneered by GE - fear. Fear will keep the local employees in line. Fear of this battle station.

  17. Re:Not H1-B: Try Offshore Contracting by fmoliveira · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Don't blame entire countries because of the people your out-sourcers end contracting. I'm in one of these countries, and I know how fast and bad executed are the recruiting for american companies. They don't expend more than between a day and a week searching. These HR firms are gold-diggers that know you guys have loads of money, and that you don't expect much, so they pick the first worker they think they can bullshit you in, and ask for a lot more than they pay for him.

  18. Re:well... by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, most of us were "put out of business" by big farms, but now we do other things and (judging by waistlines) eat better than ever.

    There's a difference between being put out of business, and choosing a different and better-paying profession.

    And American waistlines are bigger than ever because our food is all crap, loaded with high-fructose corn syrup, trans fats, MSG, and other unnatural things. Americans ate a lot better 100 years ago than they do now. Millions of obese people, with obesity caused by drinking sodas and junk food, is not an indicator of "eating well".

    Remember the Irish potato famine - over-reliance on local food has risks, too.

    The Potato Famine was caused by many things, but somehow during that time, Ireland exported tons of potatoes to England, even though its own people were starving. That says to me that relying on locally-produced food wasn't the problem, it was economics and politics. If they had kept their food at home, they wouldn't have had a famine.

    Finally, while the US is lucky enough to have arable land in varied climates, most countries aren't - should Panamanians eat bananas for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?

    So you don't think Panamanians have fish in the water surrounding them on both sides? People in tropical regions got along just fine nutritionally before modern times, they just didn't eat the same foods as they do now. Buying imported food (in any country) should be considered a luxury for people that can afford it and want to spend the money on it, not a necessity that all people can demand as a right. Just because I live in the US doesn't mean I have a right to cheap bananas (which don't grow here).