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Average User Only Runs 2 Apps, So Microsoft Will Charge For More
Barence writes "Microsoft's decision to limit Windows 7 Starter Edition to running only three concurrent applications could force up the price of netbooks as many manufacturers opt for the more expensive Home Premium. The three-app rule includes applications running in the background but excludes antivirus, and the company claims most users wouldn't be affected by the limit. 'We ran a study which suggested that the average consumer has open just over two applications [at any time]. We would expect the limit of three applications wouldn't affect very many people.' However, Microsoft told journalists at last year's Professional Developers Conference that 70% of Windows users have between eight and 15 windows open at any one time."
Microsoft's decision to limit Windows 7 Starter Edition to running only three concurrent applications could force up the price of netbooks as many manufacturers opt for the more expensive Home Premium.
Ok, ok, hold the phone. I bitched about this last time and I'll bitch about it again. Where is the official Microsoft statement?
PCPro has an interview with a Microsoft product manager claiming this but I would assume everything is up in the air until it's officially released. Even he uses words like "we would" and makes it sound like this would only be available to OEMs. Which if you think about it is a great strategy because once a major OEM adopts a Windows, it's as good as gold. It doesn't matter to Microsoft if Dell's phone lines are awash with people trying to open up Windows Media Player while running anti-virus and IE, the deal is done at that point. Of course it will be sold only to OEMs; using them as insulation to the potential retaliation of consumers but you won't be able to pick it up in Best Buy.
Quite frankly, I'm giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt. I just did a Google search for Windows Vista: Compare editions and the first set of links are all the official Microsoft Compare Editions site. I don't know how long that's been down for but click any of those links and it's broken. From a cache of Vista Starter edition I found this tidbit:
Windows Vista Starter is not available in developed technology markets such as the United States, the European Union, Australia, or Japan.
So I would contend that Microsoft has already washed the slate of the Compare Editions campaign of Vista and put that behind them. They will wise up and change their mind about Windows 7 soon if they haven't already. And if they do have a starter edition--like they did with Vista--it will probably be shipped only on OEMs to undeveloped tech markets where consumers are glad to have a computer and lack a very American sense of entitlement to consumer rights.
And if Microsoft only charges ~$10 for this edition of Windows 7, it may have a positive net effect for third world countries--although it makes you wonder how long other people will put up with shelling out $100 before finding an alternative.
My work here is dung.
Source:TheOnion.com?
Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers
Lurking in the desert
before Windows starts crashing.
id they explain to the users what "an application" is? I'm sure a quick straw poll around non-IT guys in my office asking "How many things are you running?" would result in a similar number, but then if I explained that "the internet" is a browser application, that "listening to my music" is a media player app, that "getting my email" is a mail client, and so on would bump the number up to a couple of visible apps like Word and Excel plus a futher three or four concurrent applications that are essentially invisible.
Another effect could also be to drive the usage of things like Google Docs further in the home marketplace. If you can't run Word but you can run a browser it'd make much more sense to use a browser based application.
Mind you, this could have an 'unexpected' benefit. Anyone running a bot would find they can't open a browser or play music or something. People would have a good incentive to make sure their PC is only running what it should be running.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
What if you get a virus? Oops it opens notepad and wordpad and now you can't run anything.
Hell, what about just running Antivirus? This is completely outrageous.
This means that 2 cores should be enough for everybody !
839*929
This is exactly why I use linux...
[On a Q6600 with 4GB RAM] I have 10 virtual desktops, and on them I _concurrently_ run:
Firefox with >150 tabs (using Tree Style Tabs for nesting);
10+ instances of acrobat reader;
VMWare running Windows XP;
as well as instant messengers, IRC, audio player, multiple VLC video players, etc
Not to mention that in that VMWare (Windows XP guest), I run a HUGE electronics design software suite... and it actually loads and runs faster in VMWare than running in native Windows XP!
Windows could never even attempt to run all these programs concurrently, smoothly, without crashes, and without delays in-between using any given app.
2 processes should be fine... after all, 640K of memory should be enough for anybody ;)
Take a wild guess why an IE user, still the largest browser group on Windows, might have half a dozen or more windows open at once. "Rebuttals" like this do nothing but spread misinformation. Yes, this is stupid on Microsoft's part, but comments like this just make the opposition look stupid.
This is getting really old. At no point has Microsoft even hinted that the Starter Edition would be used on netbooks. It is made for developing nations. Period. Just because a few random blogs found out that the Starter Edition exists and started going "OMFG, MS is going to put this on netbooks" doesn't make it so. Everything else that's come out about this is pure speculation based on rumors started by those same idiot bloggers.
And that's why I can't stand blogs and bloggers.
The End
Out of curiosity has anyone ever actually seen a "Starter" version of Windows in use? I don't think I ever have. I wonder what portion of users actually use that version. That's not, of course, any justification -- I still think this is a really shitty move.
'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
"Browser, Email Client, IM Client. I'm sorry, if you want to play music as well you're going to have to upgrade to a better operating system. It's called Windows 98, you may have heard of it." Ridiculous Microsoft... truly.
task manager has 36 entries in the applications tab, 66 Processes, 37 open Windows.
605413? Yes, it's a prime.
In other words... we don't want anybody to buy our cheapest product, so we'll enforce a ludicrous restriction never used in any other OS or software company before, with some statistical justification in the hopes that people will "think" we offer cheap products but still buy the expensive ones which are virtually identical but have a one-bit flag difference between them.
The average user might only use one or two "apps" but it's the definition of apps that's the problem. Apparently AV isn't an app, by this definition. But a firewall might be. A utility to check your startup entries might be. What about the Adobe Reader Speed Launcher, is that an app? Notepad? This is the problem - they are drawing a boundary where it doesn't make ANY sense to anybody. To users, their startup entries are not apps. But to the professional, a startup entry which works around the app limit could well be the downfall of the entire system that could allow companies or charities to save money by buying the cheaper Starter editions.
They are trying to introduce an artificial limitation based on the intended use, rather than just targetting the intended use - cheap, compatible, standard, available for home use. Instead, they want you to "think" that somebody actually buys that crap and that you are a "power user" because you have more than three apps open, thus leading you to believe that you have to buy a "more powerful" operating system for more money.
It's crap. Nobody will buy it, like nobody bought the other starter editions... because it's an artificial limitation for no good, technical reason.
What is the extra cost to MS for allowing users run more apps? What is the cost savings for restricting to two? Unless there is something significant here... the pricing structure is just silly.
Can I just write a meta app that runs multiple apps beneath it? I'm sure it's not as easy as it sounds... but I'd expect to see some pretty clever work arounds.
Microsoft DOES want people to like their product, don't they?
Seriously, such limitations gives the public the perception that older versions of Windows, in particular XP, are a better value and more usable.
If Microsoft plays up the "most people only run 2 apps" too much, that makes it far easier for others to sell people on netbooks, running a non-Microsoft O/S. For browsing, email, and basic word processing many people can't tell the difference / don't care what the O/S is.
Ron
If one is stuck with that one could run a free OS in one of those vizualisation applications and run their mediaplayer, webbrowser etc in there, while leaving two spots for windows-only applications.
Of course, the obvious alternative would be for people to just dig out their old copies of Windows 3.1.
;-)
That could cope quite well with running two applications, just so long as you didn't sneeze or look at the machine sideways. But the proviso of course applies just as much to later releases. The advantage here is that your two applications will run (or crash) blazingly fast...
*ducks*
Is it April Fool's day already ?
They may (in part) be right if they were surveying those with Vista Home Basic. Everyone I know who has Vista has opted for Home Premium if, for nothing else, media center (the xbox 360 is kinda slick like that). I would imagine that most people using Home Basic would maybe have IE, solitaire, and windows media player/iTunes open at once. We're looking at the bottom rung users here and they're probably right with their figures.
That being said, I think this is pretty stupid of MS to do. I don't think this was a problem to begin with seeing that no one in their right mind would want Vista Basic (okay, hold back the Vista jokes buddy) to begin with. Netbook users maybe use a few more than 3 aps at once, but they're surely not using media center and other features of Premium, so it kinda balances.
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
Wine let's me run as many as I want at about 1/28th the overhead... does Steve know this? I anticipate flying chairs.
Will Clippy pop up and tell you that you cannot open anymore programs or will they get some cryptic notification that the limitations placed on their operating system require them close one of the currently open programs.
Will spyware be included as one of the programs or do Conficker and AV360 count as "Anti-Virus"?
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
You will NEVER see this edition in the west. This is designed for ultra poor countries and it's a fraction of the price of other editions. The version you will see on netbooks will be Home Basic (the most logical version for a fully compatible, budget laptop), not this.
Has anyone even seen a computer with Vista/XP starter edition?
The FUD surrounding Windows 7 is getting increasingly desperate each day. Slashdot is almost becoming a parody of itself on this front. If there's valid things to criticise MS on then fine but don't twist things around in a desperate bid to make them look evil in such a pathetic manner.
Carrie Fisher just released her autobiography "Wishful Drinking". The cover shows her, as Princess Leia, nearly passed out with martini glass in hand and pills nearby.
Don't think she'll be saving us from the Empire this time around.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
If Google Chrome opens a new thread for each tab, will Windows 7 Starter recognise this as one app or multiple?
And did I miss the transition to a multi-tasking OS somewhere ?
Does the Ubuntu installer count as only one app?
Have gnu, will travel.
Princess Leia: I'd rather kiss a Wookie.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
Some people do not master basic statistics! I can't fathom how they can be promoted to the highest levels of business in large publicly traded companies.
While the average is a useful metrics, it is not an indication that everyone or even a typical user uses just that average. Just think for a moment, three applications is the bare minimum. You need already two, to make use of things like copy/paste.
Note that a universal OS like MS Windows already does eat lots of resources just to get warmed up. So running many applications will result in hitting the roof on resources pretty soon on something like a netbook. Why you need a cap on "apps started" is beyond me.
Busy helping non technical users of OpenOffice.org - http://plan-b-for-openoffice.org/
Hi! It looks like you're trying to run more than two applications, which is currently not allowed! Would you like to:
- shoot yourself in the other foot (you brought this upon yourself in the first place)
- throw a chair at the nearest bystander
- do the monkey dance while yelling "applications applications applications!"
- write an internal memo whining about your new netbook not being able to do actual work
Just install Cygwin and run Emacs.
Here in Brazil we have starter editions since before Vista, and the xp starter was even more crippled, it didn't allowed resoltions greater than 1024x768, and even though there were computers with this windows and 17" lcd monitors, wich have a native resoltion of 1280x1024, forcing everyone who bought those to have a blurred screen
This is going to be great for power users--the kind that read slashdot.
Why? chances are you want to use Linux or a mac but you can't because the typical user has a handful of application that
1) they have to run concurrently
2) that require windows.
For example, a lot of people MUST use windows (or a mac) because they have no alternative to running Word or Excell or some enterprise app.
but really just how many apps require MS?
the thing keeping virtualization from taking off is that windows is not cheap. But with a starter edition it could be made cheap.
run sun's virtual box. then you can run windows and linux seamlessly at the same time. FOr the aplications that require windows you use windows.
this would probably work out well.
However it won't actually work for the low end user. The lowend user is not going to have the sophistication to run two operating systems.
It may work out however for the high enduser that has the savy and extra computer resources needed to virtualize
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Microsoft should call this Windows Mid-Manager edition, since the only people using 3 apps are enterprise level office drones doing data entry via Excel or Word, Possibly Powerpoint. They are so locked down that they can't listen to music, or use IM or anything except the tools for their job. Even receptionists would balk at this... but the mid-manager's would be okay, they just want to go play golf anyways....
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Sounds like a standard genie agreement to me: You are allowed 3 wishes. I guess Virtualisation software is like wishing for more wishes.
Get free bitcoins: http://freebitco.in
... for giving people even more reasons to run Linux instead of Windows. Really, this is completely sick. My last Windows machine at home has been reformatted with Linux last year, I'll never run Vista and I doubt the next Windows will go anywhere. Windows users are basically happy with XP, meaning that XP finally did what '95, '98 and 2000 should have done but never did accomplish. Who needs Vista? What is Windows 7??
No, but Apple certainly doesn't care if people get misled by their commercials into thinking that the standard home edition they were thinking of getting with their laptop might not be able to run four apps, and decide to go with the mac instead.
I had to use a XP Home edition on a laptop that wouldn't run Linux/*BSD without pains 2-3 years ago. (That XP came preinstalled with the laptop accompanied by a rescue CD that extracted an image into a partition. This would result in a XP installation with lots of other crap preinstalled.)
So I first got my backups (as administrator of course) unpacked onto the XP Home box and tried to change the permissions on that backup so that it could be accessed by an account with normal user privileges. It took me nearly half an hour to realize that XP Home doesn't let you change permissions on files. Another half one to find the way Microsoft thinks this should work (Copying into a folder called sth like public documents or so. Hardrive was 80GB large and I had ~60GB of backups.). I finally found a HOWTO on the net for making a XP Professional (nearly feature complete) out of my Home edition and an installation CD using BartPE.
Result: even XP has editions which are crippled beyond being useful. This is hardly news.
My mum uses more than three apps at any one time, even ignoring Anti-virus.
MSN Messenger (which she uses mainly to access Hotmail), Web Browser (i've managed to get her using Firefox atleast), Spider Solitaire and a Music Player.
then ofcourse there's MS Word which she uses ocasionally
That's 5, and if Anti-virus software is included 6. Any other user might well use a seperate Email Client to, and that's the 7 applications from the old report (the 70% of windows users have 7 apps open at once thing)
If it's released only to developing countries what will they be using on it? Browser, check, Email, possibly, Office tools, most likely, Solitaire/Minesweeper, probably. Messaging sofware, also likely (that's 5 off the bat)
As they get more net Savvy they'll probably have Bittorrent, Itunes, perhaps even a proper Game. At this point they'll be net Savvy enough to know their version of Windows is seriously locked down and will want an upgrade. They will do one of two things: Shell out for a new computer with a proper version of Windows (doubtful, they're in a developing country and if they've had to buy a nerfbook they're probably too poor to do so) or they download through their newly acquired Bittorrent programme a dodgy copy of Windows 7 (or perhaps are savvy enough and go download a copy of XP)
As the second one is more likley, but may not always happen, if you ever happen to speak to a nerfbook user in a developing country with a starter edition of windows, point out their windows is crap and point them towards a proper version of windows (point them to the version your conscience allows - or indeed, Linux).
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
The reason that Vista Starter Edition was never seen in US/Europe was because Microsoft would only license it for computers sold in developing countries. However, from what I've read, this time around Home Basic is going to be for developing countries only, while Starter Edition is going to be available to OEMs worldwide. The rational being that Windows (including Home Basic) is too expensive for small computers like netbooks, so Starter Edition will be the inexpensive alternative.
That said, I think it would be idiotic for anyone to sell a computer with Starter Edition on it, even a netbook, but Microsoft is making it an option this time, and business world doesn't have any shortage of idiots when it comes to cutting costs on products.
This quote, even if not an official policy of Microsoft is indicative of the monopolistic mindset of a tyrant.
There is *no* technological reason or justification to limit the number of applications that can be run. The *only* reason to even think of doing this is that if you are confident that no one can compete with you.
In a truly competitive environment, *NO* ISV could dare even think of this. The instant that you artificially limit your software, competition eats you up.
We, as an industry, REALLY REALLY need to nuke Microsoft. They are anti-customer (this), anti-worker (H1B), andi-freedom (DRM), and anti-competitive.
"This is typical of MS though--something not completely thought out that's going to have unintended consequences..."
It's NOT unintended consequences. It's intended. You probably think Microsoft is a software company that is sometimes abusive. It's not. It's an abuse company that uses software as a way of delivering abuse.
Yes, it's my opinion. But I'm not the only one.
I'd say it's Microsoft's own fault if this were to happen. They don't *have* to have 10 different flavours of Windows, they *want* to have them. If a competitor takes advantage of the confusion generated by this, it's up to Microsoft to properly educate their target customers, or to simplify the selections to be less confusing.
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
In other news - a new Starter Car was introduced by Ford. It has 2 gears and can only manage 30mph but a spokesman said "when drivers learn the ins and outs of driving they can upgrade to a more powerful version - which can do 60!"
Oh please.
A computer is a tool - you expect it to have certain fundamental abilities and since we're not in 1980 running DOS computers are expected to be able to run as many apps and services as memory and CPU allow.
How long before they go back to that model?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The article poster is incorrect and basically talking rubbish.
Windows 7 Starter Edition is simply the next version of "Vista Starter Edition". This is a version of Windows for 3rd world/developing countries to run on old/recycled computers, or possibly OLPC type laptops. You won't find it on any netbooks sold in the Europe or the US. In fact it will probably impossible to purchase it in these areas (as it was to try and purchase Vista Starter Edition).
If it didn't affect users then there'd be no reason to implement such a limit. It obviously affects users and forces them to buy a more expensive version of what is essentially the exact same program, while allowing Microsoft to still claim how cheap Windows is.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Disclaimer: This post makes the assumption that Windows7 sh!t version really is planned to exist and really will limit you to 3 open apps.
It's 2009. In theory we're making "progress" with technology. The basic function of an OS is to provide a standard framework on which programs can run. All the fancy UI tweaks, audio and video nonsense, bla bla bla is extra. You're going to give them all the extras but limit the basic, core functionality of your software. Really, I don't understand why we need multiple versions of the OS to begin with. If you want to have add-on software...well SELL THAT - separately. Everyone buys W7 for whatever (reasonable) price. Sell an add-on pack that includes...well whatever other crap you want to consider value-add. This way if someone buys a computer and later on decides they need XYZ functionality they can just buy that and not have to reinstall (or hack) windows.
I suppose my underlying point is that it's way past time for an OS to be transparant to the end user. Give them extra software and capability if you want, but no user should need to worry about "oh noes, did I get the right windoez version? Is it going to stop my computer from doing cool things?" when a computer is delivered to their house.
Hey, car analogy! It's a 2009 Ferrari with a 1995 geo metro engine. Except even drug addicted rock stars crash ferrari's less often than windows and vista/W7 are more akin to a UPS delivery truck with fancy decals on the side. Big, ugly, and slow with valuable but hidden/inaccessible content and a fancy look on the outside disguising it all.
Oh, and 3 programs excluding AV? Ok, so let's also exempt anti-spyware, firewall, and disc encryption tools. I run at least 2 chat client, MSIE, P2P (closing and restarting screws up xfers too), webcam program that insists on coming up, solitare or other games...
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
A Microsoft study has shown that gamers seldom use all keyboard keys; and thus, Microsoft will release Windows 7 Gamers Edition, which will only support the following keys:
Users will still be able to spray their logo.
What they need is Windows 7 Solitaire edition which only runs Solitaire, this would probably satisfy a good 75% of users.
I'm sure nobody would need 3 applications ?
2 would be plenty ...
BitTorrent (to download a pirate copy) .torrent file required)
Browser (to find the
Perhaps this is straight out of the Department of the Bleeding Obvious, but I can't be the only one thinking that Microsoft proposes to actually charge money for an operating system intentionally broken so that it only runs three applications at a time. Meanwhile, if I install Ubuntu (just to pick a distro), it's free and I can run whatever I want, as much as a I want?
Is that what I'm reading here?
It is?
Oh, okay, just checking...
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
New for Windows 8 will be the "Time Sharing" version. This version of Windows will be cheaper yet, you will get 1 hour tiwce a day of computer time, you get to run 1 program at a time and get 10 megs of file storage. All for the low price of $29.99. If you wish to get more time on Windows, you can just call Micro$oft at 1-666-666-6666 and buy more time, they take Visa, Mastercard, American Express and PayPal.
The Truth is a Virus!!!
I wonder, which antivirus does it exclude? For instance, will it see AVG Free as an antivirus and exclude it from the 3 app limit, or as an application that counts? (How does it know?) Microsoft has been somewhat unfriendly to third-party antivirus companies in the past. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
(Assuming that you couldn't get a pirated version to begin with)
Get computer, get windows, spam and hack US consumers for "ch33p vi4gara" and bank account #'s, get rich
Then use that to buy a bunch of machine guns.
Seems in some places this actually *is* a business strategy, although it likely doesn't involve actually purchasing windows.
Minor quibble -- kanji is the Japanese word for Chinese characters, and Japanese really only makes use of ~2,500 kanji or so on a regular basis, with a total lexicon of maybe ~5,500. If you mean Chinese characters as used in Korean, say hanja. If you mean Chinese characters as used in Chinese, say hanzi. (Naturally, all three words are 'spelled' the same way when using Chinese characters.)
That aside, if you're at all interested about typing in Chinese, Japanese, Korean, or various other non-Latin-based scripts, look up "input method editor" or "IME" on Google. I'm a Japanese-English translator by trade, and I've also studied some Chinese and Korean. I routinely have to type in at least one of these non-Latin scripts, using my stock-standard US keyboard. The IME is programmed to read in certain Latin character combinations and convert these into the appropriate script, offering alternates when these exist.
So say I activate the Japanese IME here in MS Word and type in "seikou" and hit the space bar -- I get a drop-down showing 23 different possible kanji renderings for this reading, together with hiragana and katakana. Well-programmed IMEs also allow for new renderings to be added in addition to the built-in dictionaries.
The sheer number of characters required, and the ridiculously huge keyboards needed to input these in any hardware-based solution, is precisely why computers took so much longer to gain market penetration in China, Korea, and Japan (among other countries). It wasn't until the software capabilities caught up to the linguistic and practical realities that widespread local-language computer usage was feasible.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Quote from the fact sheet:
"Simplified task management. With Windows XP Starter Edition, first-time home PC users can have up to three programs and three windows per program running concurrently. Further simplification of the operating system includes setting a maximum display resolution of 1024x768 and no support for PC-to-PC home networking, sharing printers across a network or more advanced features such as the ability to establish multiple user accounts on a single PC."
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/newsroom/winxp/WinXPStarterFS.mspx
Just last night I was watching my 12-year-old son running media player, while browsing the web looking for cool wallpapers, while writing a story, while downloading a video, while playing othello, while having an IM window open...and I noticed a few apps minimized... Of course, this was on my Ubuntu machine, but I think my 8-year-old had 5 or 6 things running on his Acer laptop running Vista. If they had an OS than would only run 3 apps at a time, they would think it was broken (they thought Windows 2000 was broken for other reasons... no complaints about XP, though, and Vista's been okay since the first Service Patch, but they like Ubuntu the best -- they say it's a lot like XP(!?!)). I've never understood the strategy of marketing a crappy, crippled, "toy" OS, so that one can charge money for it with the rationale that their real OS is so much more expensive. It's especially puzzling when one considers that one can get a very powerful professional OS for free, with a bunch of great free applications. Does Microsoft have a human factors department? I guess they have gotten away with these strategies for so long, they've forgotten how to develop something that people really want.