How Office Depot Pushes Service Plans On Customers

Harry writes "I was amused, appalled, and angry — yes, all three — when I spotted signs above every register at my local Office Depot with handy scripts for clerks to use in 'recommending' that customers buy extra-cost, extremely profitable protection plans. And now Laptop Magazine has posted an eye-opening investigative report that charges local Office Depot stores with instructing staffers to lie and tell people who want to buy laptops without service plans that they're out of stock." Update: 03/13 00:53 GMT by T : An employee with Office Depot, somewhere in the southeastern US, wrote to respond to this story as a employee of the company, but in his off time and not in any official capacity: "I will only say that what is described in your article and the Laptop Mag article is not something that occurs across the entire company as sanctioned or ordered by the Corporate Higher Ups and is certainly nothing I have experienced as a 10-year employee of the company, we want sales. Yes, we want add-ons, but we will take the sales regardless."

Comments

The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[eldavojohn]

I've seen these sheets and the further down you read the uglier it gets:

... if the customer somehow still refuses to purchase a warranty plan and can see the SKU on display, assess whether or not you could outrun the customer:

• If YES, grab the company knife from underneath the counter and ask the customer to think of the extended warranty as "protection money."
• If NO and you haven't already seen the victim ... er ... customer's credit card, grab the company camera under the counter and shoot photos as they leave the store. Be sure to get their license plate numbers clearly photographed and submit all photos in a dossier clearly marked "OPEN SEASON" to the Scientology division of Office Depot.

Remember, you're helping them by saving them the loss N years from now when it breaks and they didn't buy an N + 1 year warranty.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[vindimy]

Everyone talks about Circuit City, and indeed, these news are nothing new... Every electronics outlet does that to stay competitive, no? If everyone steals, you either steal too, or go out of business.

Here's an account of a former Circuit City employee.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[jamstar7]

Kind of like the 4th Greatest Lie of History: "Hi. I'm from the Government. I"m here to help."

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[CokeBear]

New great lie of history: "I'm from (wall street/mortgage broker/bank/investment firm) and I'm here to help."

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[kingramon0]

That's not capitalism, that is stupidity. When they go bankrupt, that is capitalism removing the inefficient supplier from the market.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[commodore64_love]

When I worked at Sears they made us push their "protection plans" which supposedly were better than extended warranties because a technician would clean your refrigerator or dryer or whatever once a year. Well, I can clean my own unit thank you, and so too can my customer.

I quit that job as quickly as I could. I don't like lying to customers. Fact is: You Do Not Need an extended warranty. Most items die during the first few months, and that repair is provided FREE by the manufacturer. If an item survives its infancy, it will last a long long time.

And when it finally dies 10-15 years later, it's cheaper to just buy a new unit than to pay that ~$50/year ($500 per decade) extended warranty fee.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[commodore64_love]

P.S.

What really annoyed me about Sears is, if you don't sell their extended warranties, they take you off the floor & make you sit in the break room watching videos. All day. You can't earn a commission if they force you off the floor. I can't believe such tactics are legal.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[Fred_A]

Circuit City is bankrupt. Apparently this tactic didn't actually keep them competitive.

Obviously they didn't lie enough.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[cayenne8]

"Kind of like the 4th Greatest Lie of History: "Hi. I'm from the Government. I"m here to help."

I know the first two:

The check is in your mouth...

and

I won't cum in your mailbox...

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[MightyMartian]

The problem is that the margins on electronics, and in particular notebooks, are so low that the only way a lot of these places can remain viable is to sell extended warranty plans. It's been like that for some time. I was working for a guy who sold point-of-sale systems back in the early 1990s, and basically the hardware was little more than a giveaway. We made a respectable margin on the software, but the real money was in setting up the systems and consultation.

Unfortunately, when you're just a big box store, the whole notion of service is meaningless, particularly when it's the bloodsport of commission sales. To be honest with you, I pretty much avoid those stores now, either dealing online or with the few small-time computer stores in my area which, oddly enough, usually have a better selection and aren't that different on prices.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[jamstar7]

#1 is: The check's in the mail.

#2 is: I won't cum in your mouth.

#3 is: I'll still respect you in the morning.

and #5 is: This won't hurt a bit.

Better Question

[moniker127]

Why would you buy a computer at office depot?

Re:Better Question

[Narnie]

Why would you buy a computer at office depot?

Because you need something with enough mass to make it through the store window when you plan on returning it?

Because you don't feel satisfied with a computer purchase unless you know you've been ripped off?

Because Office Depot is the only place that will extend you credit because you put a months worth of hookers and blow on your creditcard?

Re:Better Question

[IANAAC]

Why would you buy a computer at office depot?

Not so long ago you could have said the same thing about Best Buy - why would you buy a computer from them?

If you can find a better deal at Office Depot, why not?

Re:Better Question

[moniker127]

Id still say the same thing about best buy.

Re:Better Question

[cob666]

I recently purchased an HP laptop at Best Buy that ended up being a few dollars cheaper than what it would have cost to buy direct from HP once you added in the shipping costs and the sales tax.

Re:Better Question

[Icarus1919]

Thank god, someone with some information I can use. Where is it, again, that I can put blow on my credit card?

Re:Better Question

[schmiddy]

Where is it, again, that I can put blow on my credit card?

Glad I could help. On a serious note, if you're the sharp type and good at reading fine print, you can occasionally make money with "credit card arbitrage" by taking advantage of 0% APR balance transfer options. Not for the faint of heart, of course. Or you can take advantage of the US Mint's offers to sell dollar coins at face value with free shipping to skim credit card rewards points.

Re:Better Question

[Lumpy]

Same reason I bought my new dell laptop at Staples..

it was $350.00 cheaper than I could get the exact same thing with my partner pricing from dell.com.

I saved a crapload of cash and got it right now instead of waiting a week and paying for shipping.

for some reason these office supply stores have insane deals that the manufacturers cant touch. Funny part is that I was able to buy a dell extended warranty for it when I got to work at dell.com for 1/2 the price of their special staples care package.

Re:Better Question

[sgt_doom]

Because, douchebag, you are sowing the seeds of your own demise.

Buy from a national chain, and the money flows outward, probably never to return to your region/city/neighborhood.

For every $100 spent at a national book chain, only an infinitesimal amount remains locally (something like $10 or so). Buy from a local book store, and at least $45 remains in your neighborhood.

Which means more employment, etc., etc. Dig????

And in the present economy - which will take from 10 to 20 years to rebound from, if they immediately get rid of Geithner, Bernanke, Summers, et al., and send in the military to all the offshore tax havens (or finance centers) and confiscate all those records for American and American-based multinationals who refuse to pay their taxes (73% at last count) by utilizing the process of "money laundering"......we need every extra bit we can squeeze out of it.

Re:Better Question

[fractoid]

Anywhere you want, but I suggest a discreet location such as your lounge room or kitchen.

Oh... OH. You meant BUY it. Nevermind.

Re:Better Question

[IANAAC]

Buy from a national chain, and the money flows outward, probably never to return to your region/city/neighborhood. For every $100 spent at a national book chain, only an infinitesimal amount remains locally (something like $10 or so). Buy from a local book store, and at least $45 remains in your neighborhood. Which means more employment, etc., etc. Dig????

Great! Point me to a local, non-national chain store to buy a netbook or MID (or laptop, for that matter) and I'm totally there (oh, and I should add at an attractive price, since that's usually what takes people to national chains).

Look, electronics and books are two very different industries and you just can't compare them. Books can be and are sometimes published and produced locally. I don't know of any local, US-based place that produces the electronics I would use. Dig?

Re:Better Question

[bretticus]

250MB hard disk

In this case, I think I'm going to have to agree with the OP.

Re:Better Question

[interkin3tic]

Great! Point me to a local, non-national chain store to buy a netbook or MID (or laptop, for that matter) and I'm totally there.

Do you happen to live in Richfield, Minnesota? Because if that non-national part isn't a sticker, there's this company there called Best Buy you should look into.

If not, I'm 100% out of ideas.

Company or store policy?

[Ethanol-fueled]

Heh, that sounds about right.

I worked for OfficeMax a few years ago. Everybody who worked there received commissions for selling those overpriced plans to customers.

I'm wondering if the examples discussed in TFA are a companywide policy a la Best Buy with their seperate pricing for internet and intranet, or the brainchild of some greedy store manager. When I worked as a film-developer for a major drugstore chain, the store manager approached me about finding a way to cheat customers using standard processing for customers who turned in their film with premium envelopes(which means that customers who wanted offsite "premium" processing would instead have their stuff done in-house, saving us tons of cash and leaving us hoping that the customer wouldn't notice the lack of the extra features they wanted ^_^).

My biggest mistake in that job was mentioning the word "ethics" to my manager. I was never promoted ^_^

Re:Company or store policy?

[Aladrin]

Office Depot does not pay commissions. Instead, they just threaten your job if you don't sell enough. Since the employees are easy replaceable, even at near-minimum-wage, they don't have to care.

Yes, I used to work there as a 'customer service representative' (or some stupid title) and I was told 'never lie', etc etc... And then told that if I didn't sell enough plans there would be problems.

I refused to lie and refused to even -try- to sell the plans to people who didn't want them. Most of the time, I didn't even mention them. The only way I survived was that I was the -only- employee with any actual computer knowledge. I could actually fix computers where others couldn't even name the parts if they weren't labeled. (Okay, there were a couple that could install RAM, if they -had- to.)

They don't just push those plans, though. They also push overpriced ink, paper, cords, power strips... Anything and everything to add money to that sale.

Obviously, the employees hate that shit as much as the customers do. I'm not surprised that they've resorted to lying directly from management to the customer to try to sell the extras.

The one article claims a really odd commission system... While it wasn't in effect when I was there, it was the kind of bullshit they'd pull, so it might be true. They're really, really cheap though, so I seriously doubt it's true.

Re:Company or store policy?

[sahonen]

I worked for OfficeMax a few years ago. Everybody who worked there received commissions for selling those overpriced plans to customers.

OfficeMax was my shitty high school job, I had the same thing... I don't think I'll ever forget the poor customer who bought the protection plan on a $5 mouse because I was following the script and she didn't know how to say "no." I stopped following the script after that.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Ethanol-fueled]

Obviously, the employees hate that shit as much as the customers do.

Yes! Laymen, please keep that in mind the next time you get that crap from one of us working that shit job. Also know that those bullshit policies are often enforced by secret shoppers. Secret shoppers are people who work for agencies who are paid by the company to monitor employee behavioral compliance.

OfficeMax didn't have them then, but the drugstore chain did. In that case, the random weekly visits measured for all of the employees working in the store(YMMV):

Did the employee greet you with a smile?
Did the employee ask you if you found everything you wanted?
Did the employee offer to take(or call somebody to take) you to the item?
Did the employee offer a friendly parting comment?

I never found out for sure, but I've heard that store managers receive bonuses for keeping payrolls low. My store manager was paid 63K a year while the understaffed underlings often work for minimum wages. Keep that in mind the next time you visit a drug or grocery store with 30 people in line being served by only 2 cashiers.

Re:Company or store policy?

[garett_spencley]

"I never found out for sure, but I've heard that store managers receive bonuses for keeping payrolls low. My store manager was paid 63K a year while the understaffed underlings often work for minimum wages. Keep that in mind the next time you visit a drug or grocery store with 30 people in line being served by only 2 cashiers."

Oh please. Everything up until that paragraph I would buy as plausible. But do you know WHY they pay their employees so little ? Because people are willing to take the jobs at those wages. Do you know why they only have 2 cashiers working ? Because people are willing to wait in line a little longer to pay cheaper prices (otherwise Walmart would not be in business, let alone so huge).

Do you know why the employer wants to pay as little for labour as possible ? Because labour is an operational cost, just like leasing office space, buying equipment and paying for advertising etc. EVERYONE, whether you're a business owner or not, always wants to sell high and buy low. That's not greed. It's common sense. However, what people really don't get about it is that by keeping operational costs down, the prices get kept down. So while people's wages may be lower, their costs of living is also lower. Raise the wages, raise the prices. We all make more money but not really because everything costs more.

As for managers, managers are not entrepreneurs. They are hired by the owners to oversee departments and divisions. Their wages are just as much an operational cost as any other employee's. Now, sure, of course they will do what they can to get a higher pay for doing less work, just like any employee will. But in the end the entrepreneur needs to keep ALL costs down in order to compete with other businesses. You know, to stay in business.

So if the owners are paying the managers ridiculously large wages while the people actually doing the "real work" are getting cheated then the entrepreneur will not be in business very long. It will only take ONE company to pay his manager just a little less (since apparently there's so much of an inflated salary to cut into right there), and pay his employees better (he'll take all the good employees and undermine his competitors on service) and presto, he's got the market share.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Yeef]

I used to work at the local Best Buy and, like most big retailers, they had us pushing the service plans and other stupid add-ons (magazine subscriptions, credit cards, etc). While they never told us to lie, they'd often tell us to omit mentioning any potential negatives unless the customer specifically asked about it.

Best Buy employees don't work on commission, true, but of course they gave more hours to the people that managed to get more customers to sign up for service plans. There's nothing wrong with that. Now, most of my co-workers were honest people; it wasn't uncommon to see some of them give the customers faulty information, but it was usually out of ignorance rather than trying to purposely be deceptive.

There was a handful of people, though, that would tell outright falsehoods to customers to get them to get a service plan or what have you. There was one employee in particular that would sign people up for the magazine subscriptions without even asking then (the 'free' trial that they charge you for after the 8th week if you don't cancel).

Of course, since I worked Customer Service I was the one who had to deal with all of the angry customers. Easily the most stressful job I've ever had. On the one side I had customers venting their frustrations at me. Then, with the way Best Buy's hierarchy is set up (there were about 12 managers, all with the same level of authority and conflicting sets of instructions) it was chaos trying to figure out exactly what they expected from me. So, I simply stuck to the official store policy and, of course, I got 'spoken to' (but not written up, because they really wouldn't have a leg to stand on) for accepting too many returns even though I was following company policy to the letter. After putting up with that shit for two years, I'd finally had enough and quit.

I suppose I'm going off on a tangent here, so let me get back on topic. I think that, with the exception of a few people, most retail employees loathe using lying to people, even if only through omission. Unfortunately, the way the system is setup, there isn't really much of a choice. I was fortunate enough that I could afford to quit a job that I hated (and that was back when the economy was still relatively good). But not everyone has that luxury. If you have a family to support or are a student paying your own tuition (as a lot of my co-workers were) it's not really an option. When I was working at Best Buy, the only people there that seemed to genuinely enjoy their job, other than the managers, were the people working in the warehouse (away from the customers). Most everyone else just sort of begrudgingly accepted that things could be worse and did their best to bear it.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Anonymous Coward]

no, he's right. I used to work at a Blockbuster and if the overall payroll for the week was lower (presumably there were a few set levels), the store manager got a cash bonus. i acknowledge that your free market bs about people taking the jobs and the consumers putting up with it is correct, but the bonus for low payroll is true. it's not illegal, it's not really immoral, it's just a shitty policy from a store that doesn't care about it's customers and is not surprisingly going under.

Re:Company or store policy?

[LaskoVortex]

Could you be any more insulting to your species ?

Yes, of course he could. He could offer them a protection plan they don't need. I'd call that a first rate insult.

Re:Company or store policy?

[ENIGMAwastaken]

That's the stupidest bit of free-market fundamentalism I've heard today.

Due to all kinds of factors like economies of scale, customer loyalty, established physical presence, detailed infrastructure, etc. an existing company has so many competitive advantages over an upstart that to pretend some entrepreneur could (for God knows what reason) start up a consumer electronics store to take on, say Best Buy, is just absurd.

Somehow this perfect entrepreneur would have to know that (for example) Best Buy was paying its managers more than the market reasonably could bear (which is basically impossible since Best Buy now almost wholly comprises the market for big box consumer electronics store, which means that the price BB pays its managers is, de facto, "the market price") and, in order to leverage this into a competitive advantage over BB, this manager would have to run his stores at least as well as BB does in nearly every other respect (the stores would have to be roughly equal in other respects for this small competitive advantage to accrue) and he would have to hope that this disparity in price he pays his managers (which couldn't reasonably be more than a few ~10k per manager) would, eventually, allow him to overtake BB or at least put enough pressure on them to lower their wages, which they would do, driving this stupid entrepreneur out of business, because of all the aforementioned advantages Best Buy has as an entrenched company. For example, BB could pressure suppliers not to sell to this company, or to sell products to him at a higher rate, because BB accounts for a huge amount of, say, Toshiba's laptop PC sales. So if Best Buy says "Either stop selling to this guy with 5 stores or stop selling to me, and my 3500", what do you think Toshiba is going to do?

Of course, this is just an elaborate fiction. None is stupid enough to take on an entrenched monopoly like Best Buy for some Robin Hood goal of righting a wrong in manager pay when anyone with half a brain knows they would be pounded into dust like dozens of companies before them.

On its face, this claim is absurd, that all it would take is ONE company paying its managers "just a little" less will have any effect on anything. Like all free market fantasies, this falls apart as soon as you give it more than a moment's reflection. For example, it forces you to either conclude that Best Buy is almost absolutely perfectly efficient (doubtful) or business leaders would absolutely be jumping at the chance to take them on. Thus if your free market logic were so impeccable, you'd be able to secure money from real capitalists (ie., people with money) and enact the plan yourself. So why haven't you?

Re:Company or store policy?

[sahonen]

Much better, you're up to 7/10, and actually worth replying to.

Also, the GP didn't say how much the warranty cost.

I don't remember exactly, but far more than simply buying a new mouse when the old one fails, especially considering we're talking about devices with no moving parts here. I've never had an optical mouse fail on me under normal use. Also, depending on how you value your time, spending the hour or so digging up the receipt and waiting on the phone, going through whatever procedures they require for you to get your replacement... It's simply not worth spending that kind of time on something you can pay for out of pocket by just working for 15 minutes.

If it weren't for competitive strategies such as that we'd all still be paying $50 per mouse like we were 10 - 15 years ago.

Yeah, advances in miniaturization and manufacturing techniques have totally had nothing to do with that. I suppose you think the reason I've got more computing power for a third of the cost in my iPod Touch than my desktop machine had 15 years ago is because Apple sells warranties too!

Insinuating that people are somehow idiots who can't think for themselves, and that companies prey on them is WAY more insulting.

I suggest you take a hypnosis class some time, you'll learn that even your average person is fairly suggestible. On the low end of the bell curve there are people you can sell *anything* to. There's enough weak-willed people out there that a good panhandler can live in a house.

Re:Company or store policy?

[mkiwi]

I worked at CompUSA, and our management was constantly trying to get us to sign people up with *AOL*. The whole thing was so ridiculous that even the department managers didn't fire us for lack of sales.

The people who made a lot of money on commissions were the hardware guys selling compete systems. I never got to see a big benefit from selling the plans, other than I got to keep my job.

Re:Company or store policy?

[tkrotchko]

>>EVERYONE, whether you're a business owner or not, always wants to sell high and buy low.That's not greed. It's common sense.

>Nope. Still greed.

Not really. If you're buying a used car from a guy, and he's asking for $5K, and book value is $4K is he being greedy?

What if you offer him $3K? Are you being greedy?

I think the answer to that is no. It's not immoral to sell things for as much as you can, nor is it immoral to buy things for as low as you can. Even communists do that. Nobody gives away stuff to be a nice guy. Nobody pays too much because they feel it's "the right thing to do". That applies to cars, widgets or labor. It's all a commodity.

Re:Company or store policy?

[paulgrant]

thats nice in theory but....

managers get paid more 'cause we're the one's who a)give a shit about performance and b)capable of dealing with the unexpected crap that arises during the course of business.
the lack of business sense (or worse, common sense) is so appalling at the minimum wage level I'ld rather just automate rather than deal with the stupidity.

and in case u want (dis)proof ;) witness all those lovely mining/meatprocessing plants with safety records from the 1800's paying crap wages.... occasionally a crappy job
is better than no job.

Re:Company or store policy?

[fractoid]

5) The manager quits because you just cut his pay by $10k a year and the shop down the road is willing to pay him $65k because he spun them a story of how profits are up $6k over last year.

Re:Company or store policy?

[syousef]

So if the owners are paying the managers ridiculously large wages while the people actually doing the "real work" are getting cheated then the entrepreneur will not be in business very long.

Is that why CEOs are paid so many million whether or not the company is failing? Everything up until that paragraph was BS, but that really clinched it.

Here in Australia we have a scandal going on where an iconic Australian clothing company called Pacific Brands is firing thousands of local staff to move their operations offshore. Anyone that quits early loses their redundancy payouts. Meanwhile the CEO doubled her salary. This is possible because company executives have all the power and are able to decide where to make cuts first. Meanwhile they also pat each other on the back and increase their own wages if company performance improves as a result. Their money doesn't come from the money fairy. The employees and the share holders all lose out as the company is sold out from under them.

Re:Company or store policy?

[dcollins]

Nobody gives away stuff to be a nice guy.

Bullshit. Sometimes I really wonder what circles you people travel in.

Appalled?

[phantomfive]

Wow, if you get appalled over scripts for cashiers, wait until you find out about telemarketers, what THEY have. I fear the day you learn about politician's speech writers. Oh, and did you know? Those bills that get passed through congress, often the congresspeople DON'T EVEN READ THEM.

OK I'll stop now to keep your rage meter from going overboard.

(This message brought to you from the 'please channel your anger towards things that actually matter dept').

Man, I must be feeling bitter today.

the slide shown

[bugs2squash]

did not look that bad to me. It seemed to stick to the facts. They are supposed to make money

Re:the slide shown

[vux984]

Not at all. The true reason the salesperson recommends the extended warranty is because they get commission. The reason given in the script is an unrelated fact, so by following the script the salesperson is lying.

No. By following the script the sales person is giving you a true reason why you might want to buy it. It doesn't happen to be the reason he wants to sell it to you, but what has that got to do with anything?

The true reason the store exists at all is to extract money from customers. So if I walk in an ask to buy a single pen, and an employee suggests buying the 3 pack for twice the price 'because you get 2 for the price of 1' he isn't lying to me. Its the truth, and perhaps even a good reason to buy the 3 pack.

The fact that he makes more money from the sale this way is the reason he suggested it, but that doesn't make the rest of the conversation a lie.

Depot dumbness

[pilgrim23]

I bought a keyboard yesterday. I was asked if I wanted a warranty. I said "On a keyboard?" with a sardonic sound. It went right over her head. Then she put a tape over the edge of the box "Whats that?" I asked "our return policy" she said. "So if I break the tape I cannot return it? You do realize I need to open the box." " I'm sorry sir, that is the policy" she smartly replied. I left with my wallet, but not wits intact...

Re:Depot dumbness

[garett_spencley]

Meanwhile everyone has a higher cost of living because stores need to account for the higher costs of complying with such regulations (being out perfectly good inventory that comes back damaged, having to pay more for labour to deal with accepting returns and the turn-around etc.) which goes straight on to the prices.

If the majority thinks that the cost is worth it, then it doesn't matter. They're getting something for it. People just need to realize that those types of regulations don't purely help consumers and hurt businesses. They have a cost associated that everyone has to bear.

On the flip side, without those regulations you can always turn around and resell a product that you realize that you don't want. You might still take a loss, but then, you went out and bought a product you didn't really want. Personally I'd rather people who buy products that they don't want take the loss instead of everyone.

Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[Doug52392]

About a year ago, I walked into a local Best Buy, and was shocked, appalled, angry, but not surprised, to see anti-filesharing propaganda set up throughout the store.

I counted over 25 fliers hanging on walls, telling people "DOWNLOADING IS A CRIME!", and other propaganda. The most elaborate display they set up was in the MP3 Players section of the store. They mounted two flashing strobe lights on top of a display, designed to look like a police car's flashing lights. They then placed a large sign stating that "DOWNLOADING IS A CRIME. DON'T GO TO JAIL, DON'T DOWNLOAD".

So I asked one of the employees about the signs. They said it was an order by their upper management (as in, from their corporate offices). I then asked if they believed that downloading music is a criminal offense that can result in arrest, as they clearly try to say. They did not know. Some of them said "Yes", while others didn't answer the question.

Needless to say, I guess people complained, because the signs were gone after a while...

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[MrEricSir]

"Sir, I saw you put those CDs in your pants. Are you stealing them?"
"Yes, well I wasn't going to download these, but then I saw your sign..."

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[MrEricSir]

-wasn't
+was

Guess I should have bought an extended warranty on my original post.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[PCM2]

Needless to say, I guess people complained, because the signs were gone after a while...

Actually, I think it's more likely that the [RI|MP]AA paid to advertise at Best Buy, the same way that technology companies can buy end-of-aisle display placement. When the money ran out, the ads came down.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[PunditGuy]

Damn it! Aunt Mabel bought me this iTunes card, but since downloading is a crime...

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[arekusu_ou]

Sir, you didn't purchase any music CDs today, so I must believe you have stolen CDs. Please strip naked and prepare for a cavity search. On another note, remember to have your handy RIAA Support badge worn for a low low purchase price of $100 to avoid being hassled on the way out of our store.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[shutdown -p now]

I hope they answered "yes", because it is.

"Downloading music" is certainly not a crime. Violating someone's copyright is, but it's not something that's inherent in downloading. For example, you can download these songs absolutely legally, and there are plenty more.

The Script..

[$1uck]

"This _____ is eligible for our replacement plan. I recommend it because if the product fails after the manufacturer's warranty, it will be replaced with an Office Depot Merchandise card for the full price you are paying today."
If this shocks, amazes, or angers you. Get a fucking life. How is this news at all? If they want to lose a sale b/c they're not selling a protection plan, well I would think they are just shooting themselves in the foot.

Reminds me of OMAX..

[mackinaw_apx]

I used to work for Office Max for over a year. These exact same employee "policies" were in place there too.. though our plans were called "Max Advantage". We'd be told to only help customers on the floor that were looking at or thinking of purchasing items that carried a service plan... and got "write ups" if we didn't sell X amt. of plans per month. And since the day I quit, I haven't worked retail again...

Yabbut...

[cptdondo]

Wait till they get a patent on this method!

Re:Yabbut...

[Bromskloss]

Wait till they get a patent on this method!

Exactly. We have the patent system so that new ideas do not become widely available to society, thereby confining the damage.

I bought mine... at Circuit City

[PCM2]

Believe it or not, I bought my current PC at Circuit City. I know, I know. But at the time, Circuit City had the same model HP Pavilion for as little or less than anyone online, with the additional advantage that I could jump on the bus and go buy one today, rather than having to wait around for UPS to deliver it. A week later, Amazon.com dropped the price by $50, so I went back to Circuit City and said, "Hey! I you guys ripped me off!" The nice kid at the cash register promptly credited $50 to my card. Total time without a working computer: 18 hours. Total money lost due to not shopping online: $0.

Am I sorry they're out of business?

I dunno. Not really.

Re:I bought mine... at Circuit City

[icannotthinkofaname]

Am I sorry they're out of business?

I dunno. Not really.

Good. You shouldn't be sorry. It's not your fault they're finished. It's everyone who didn't buy their computers from Circuit City, thereby denying Circuit City a profit from the consumer's money.

Re:I bought mine... at Circuit City

[Anonymous Coward]

Future Shop and Best Buy also offer a service like this, something along the lines of if what you bought can be found cheaper somewhere else for 30 days after you buy it you can get a refund for the difference. The only requirement was that you had to have a copy of the ad showing the lower price.

Here is what I do

[bogaboga]

When I am to buy anything from stores like Office Depot, and happen to be coaxed into these service plans, I tell them:

"Look, this is a gift. If I must purchase a service plan before walking out with this product, then I will leave it. Now, can I have this product without a service plan or not?"

This script has worked remarkably well at all times. I have never been disappointed.

Re:Here is what I do

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you could try my favorite.

Oh its out of stock? Damn thought you guys had a good service plan too. Guess I will go to insert other store here.

Magically in stock again? At register with item in hand. Service plan? What service plan? I didnt say I wanted one please take it off.

Bait and switch works BOTH ways.

Re:Here is what I do

[thestreetmeat]

I always ask them "Why? Do these break a lot?" If they answer yes, then I tell them I don't want it anymore. It's fun to listen to them try to convince you to get the plan, but at the same time reassure you that it's a good product in the first place.

An Old Adage and a Modern One

[sehlat]

Since the days of the Romans, the adage has been "Caveat emptor." (Let the buyer beware.)

Now Modern Marketing has their own adage: "Carpe emptor!" (Seize the buyer.)

Let the Battle of the Adages Begin!

Re:An Old Adage and a Modern One

[shermo]

"Carpe emptorem!" Perhaps

Certainly not new

[mschuyler]

Selling up is hardly new with computer stores. Long time ago I bought a high-end VCR (Yup, THAT long ago) from a Silo store I had frequented. They always tried to sell the warranty, and this time I was damn sure I wasn't going to buy one. The sales lady rung up the order without asking, so I sarcastically asked, "Aren't you going to try to sell me one of those extended warranties?" "No," she said. "I can see it in your face that you aren't going to buy one." which I thought was pretty funny.

About the scripts: I worked retail for awhile and I gotta tell you, some of these 'sales associates' are so afraid of what to say that they demand scripts. They'll say, "What do I say?" so I'd say, 'Just talk to the customer and answer his questions.' "But what, exactly, am I supposed to say?" and it just goes on and on until you write them up a script to keep them quiet. This was especially true for customer complaints where no one wants to say the 'wrong' thing. As you know, once in awhile a customer can be kind of unreasonable, and there's this old aphorism that "the customer is always right." But as far as I'm concerned, that doesn't mean a front-line flak catcher has to take abuse. What the phrase means is, "The customer knows what he wants to buy, and if you don't have it, you screwed up." It doesn't mean if he starts yelling at tou that you have to stand there and just take it. Leave. get a manager. Whatever.

I did the same thing at Office Max

[slummy]

When I was 17 I worked for Office Max.

The incentives that they gave the salesperson who sold the extended "warranty" on any electronic/furniture item far outweighed any moral obligation for me. I would push a $5.99 1-year replacement warranty on just about anything I could, selling someone a $29.99 inkjet printer with a warranty gave me an extra $12 bucks in my check. Some weeks my check gross amount just about doubled from the volume of extended replacement plans I sold.
I don't blame them.

Re:I did the same thing at Office Max

[hansamurai]

Yep, did the same at Staples during high school. I remember one particular Sunday morning where I had sold a bunch of plans by noon, basically tripling my pay check for those sorry few hours, "$19 an hour! WOW!"

I don't regret selling the plans, some of them were nice, like the laptop screen repair. I never followed scripts, you can read people pretty easily after a while of selling electronics, I don't think I bothered asking even 50% of the time. I was only a top seller like once, but it didn't bother me.

Just remember most of these salespeople are just kids doing their job. If you don't want it, just say no. If they keep bothering you about it, just vote with your wallet and walk out.

A former employee

[UnrealisticWhample]

A few years ago I worked at Office Depot for about a month while I was looking for other work. I was hired on as a stocker, though they'd occasionally have me cover the computer department when we were short staffed. At our store, management set a quota for each employee for how many service plans we were supposed to sell each week with a required Saturday morning training session for any employee who did not reach their quota where we would do crap like train on these scripts and brainstorm incentive plans on how to motivate us to sell more.

I went to one of these stupid meetings and all I could say for myself is that since I worked as a stocker in office supplies, I didn't even sell anything that I could in theory have pushed a service plan on, even if I didn't think they were crap. They responded that I was mistaken because batteries were in my department and they qualified. WTF? How the hell are you supposed to sell a service plan on a pack of AA batteries? I quit before the next Saturday as I'd found another job, though I probably would have given them notice if it weren't for the crappy work environment.

Re:A former employee

[Akili]

About a decade ago I worked for Staples, in their business center.

I witnessed, firsthand, a 'model' employee taking a printer out of a customer's cart when the customer revealed that they weren't going to buy the money pit of an extended warranty plan! Subsequently telling that same customer that the entire wall of boxed printers was on hold for 'a school' was the icing on that particular cake.

Our store had the best rankings in the district because 'we' flat-out refused to let warranty-able items go out the door without a warranty being purchased. While the official store policy was never to use those sorts of tactics, there was a sheet that was distributed to each store in a given district, posted prominently in the break room, ranking each store by how well they did selling those warranty plans, and the best store got awards and the like. Kind of a we don't condone this behavior, but if it gets results, we'll pretend not to notice arrangement, it seemed.

I got in some hot water for not pushing those warranties - I sold perhaps one a month, usually because the customer wanted it - but I had other good employee qualities that they apparently decided were worth keeping me for.

Anyway. I have no idea if they still do such a thing, but it's not a new idea.

I've got a better script.

[Locke2005]

"Nice little laptop you got here... shame if anything happened to it!"

Scam

[interval1066]

Just another scam. Why go through the hassle? I just bought a netbook for my wife from Amazon. Has as low a price as I could find for that particular product, no hassle, no muss, no fuss. The only hassle I can see is that I can't walk out of their establishment with my purchase that day. But I didn't have a sales clown in my face telling what I need, getting in my way, forcing me to smell his BO, etc... For this kind of service I can wait.

Will they replace a candy bar under the plan?

[Joe The Dragon]

Will they replace a candy bar under the plan?

I can see it now.

Just buy a candy bar and they ask do you want a protection plan you say yes eat it right there and ask them How do I make a clam?

As for batteries will they give new ones for free when they go dead or does the plan cost more then the batteries?

Re:Will they replace a candy bar under the plan?

[CannonballHead]

clam

Get a mother clam, a father clam, and put them in a clamhouse.

Re:Will they replace a candy bar under the plan?

[CannonballHead]

*sigh* -1 ruined joke. what I meant to say is ...

How do I make a clam?

Get a mother clam, a father clam, and put them in a clamhouse.

Not News

[hduff]

When did we forget caveat emptor and expect the seller to be fair and do business in our favor all the time?

• The idealism of consumer-focused selling always falls prey to reality.
• We demand low prices that result in low profits, so a business needs to find some other means to generate profits.
• "Selling what we have" will prevail over "Selling what's best for the customer" almost every time.
• People lie and cheat to achieve their goals, especially when their goals are at contretemps to the other party and they'll lose their jobs if they aren't successful.
• Buyers always have a choice; complain and/or vote with your pocketbook/feet.

I once worked at a bank that set high goals for the "sale" of credit life insurance on consumer loans. Without exception, credit life insurance obtained through the lender is a bad deal for the borrower and a great deal for the bank - DON'T EVER BUY CREDIT LIFE INSURANCE. If the borrower "asks" for it, the premium is not counted in the A.P.R. calculation; if it is required, it must be part of that calculation, vastly inflating the A.P.R. Guess how much credit life was sold as "asked for" and how much was sold as "required"?

We were instructed as to patently illegal and devious means to write it as "asked for" while the bank President stood in the room. The one fellow who questioned the practices was fired within the month. I left shortly thereafter.

It happens everywhere. That's the sad, harsh real world.

This is not news.

"Office Depot Provides Legitimate Extended Warranties At No Extra Cost" would be news.

Well, that's one problem I'll never have

[istartedi]

I found one vintage keyboard model that I like, and I've stuck with it, accumulating them when they come up on eBay and various other places. The one I'm typing on now has dual English-Japanese key caps on it which, IMHO, is cool and different. I have to use an AT to PS2 converter, which I plug into a PS2 to USB converter. If anything supersedes USB (doesn't seem likely) it might get really ugly though.

Re:Well, that's one problem I won't have

[bhtooefr]

If USB goes away... start collecting USB-equipped dumb terminals, as ethernet isn't going anywhere any time soon. Use them to VNC into your main computer, and just use it for the keyboard.

Office Despot

[tverbeek]

I've avoided buying anything at Office Despot since I walked into one years ago and they had a sign boasting that they test their employees for drugs. Even aside from the fact that I find that invasion of employees' privacy troublesome on principle, why would I - as a customer - care whether the guy ringing up my sale smokes a little weed once in a while, or even if the girl restocking the shelves does a line of coke every night? What kind of business brags about how worker-unfriendly an employer they are?

Re:Office Despot

[khellendros1984]

I suppose that's one way to think about it. Another is that since those drugs are illegal, they tend to be supplied by large drug-smuggling operations. You buy something, some of that money goes into the salesperson's pocket, and some of that goes into the illegal drug trade.

Re:Office Despot

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that more people abuse legal, prescription drugs than illegal drugs in the U.S. And that money goes into the pocket of Big Pharma...oh. Nevermind.

Re:Office Despot

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Given the choice would you really want to be standing next to warehouse racks holding palettes of merchandise built by some one who toked up before they came to work or some one who doesn't use.

This is a red herring. "Before they came to work," of course not, but then, I wouldn't want to be there next to someone who downed a six-pack before coming to work either. But if he got stoned the night before, or got drunk the night before, or both, or neither -- why should I care?

Re:Office Despot

[interkin3tic]

I suppose that's one way to think about it. Another is that since those drugs are illegal, they tend to be supplied by large drug-smuggling operations.

I run a mom-and-pop drug smuggling operation, you insensitive clod!

Lie?

[PPH]

instructing staffers to lie and tell people who want to buy laptops without service plans that they're out of stock.

I don't get how this would work. Generally, extended service plans are pushed at the end of the sales transaction, when you are standing at the cash register.* They might be good, but I've yet to meet a sales person that can convince me that the laptop I'm holding is out of stock** and must be a figment of my imagination.

*Any earlier and the issue of product reliability becomes an issue. "What! I need a service plan? Does this thing break down a lot?"

**Generally, when I walk in to a store to buy something, the first thing I do (before aking about all of the expensive accessories) is to see if they actually have one in stock. Yes? Well, bring it out and let me take a look at it. The continuation of the transaction is predecated upon them actually producting the item in person.

Once upon a kind sales person ...

[indian_rediff]

I remember going to one of these big box retailers - I vaguely remember it to be The Wiz (sometime known as Nobody beats The Wiz) and buying a VCR or a DVD payer (I forget which). The salesman told me about the extended service plan. I told him that I don't need one. He said, 'Sir, it is simple. Please buy the extended service plan. It will cost you $45.00. But you have 3 days within which you can come back to the store and cancel it. Please do it for my sake'

I did buy the extended service plan and then canceled it a couple of days later.

One other time, when I was buying one of those ultra-cheap DVD players ($20 or so) from Circuit City (I think - it could have Best Buy too) and the sales guy tried to foist a $25 extended waranty on me). When I told him that it would be cheaper for me to buy 2 of the players, instead of his warranty, he didn't know where to look.

All in all, pretty sad the way they catch unwary customers.

read this for the real stormy on car sales men

[Joe The Dragon]

read this for the real stormy on car sales men
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

Re:read this for the real stormy on car sales men

[Falconhell]

IT vendors only exist so that people who are too evil to sell used cars have somewhere to work.

Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[Futurepower(R)]

Circuit City had a bad reputation. If you could buy something somewhere else, you would probably go there. Now it looks to me as though Office Depot is ODing on the same foolish management ideas.

It would be interesting if we could know two things: 1) Exactly how much Office Depot makes by selling overpriced "protection" plans. 2) How much it will cost Office Depot because of stories about the company being abusive on Reddit.com, Digg.com, and Slashdot.

That Digg link leads to a New York Times article about the Office Depot CEO. Quoting: "The worst chief executive of the year was Steve Odland of Office Depot, according to Glassdoor.com's reviewers. He had an 80 percent disapproval rating."

CEOs in the U.S. often make 475 times the pay of the average person. I suppose it doesn't matter to many CEOs if the company they are managing dies. The CEOs make millions as fast as possible, and when the company dies, they retire or do something else.

That isn't honest, I think it is psychologically self-destructive, but it seems to me that's the way things often are.

Warren Buffett warned about bank failures in 2003. It was certainly no secret; anyone with any interest in financial business knew about the problem. Bank executives knew that what they were doing would be the end of their companies. I suppose they were making so much money (sometimes $40 million per year) that they didn't feel it was necessary to care. It was understood, and often discussed even on TV, that the U.S. taxpayer would pay for any problems that were created; that is happening exactly the way it was planned.

Re:Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[Skapare]

You mean this?

1. Get job as CEO
2. Drive company into bankruptcy
3. Profit (retire rich on fat bonus)!

Re:Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[interkin3tic]

It would be interesting if we could know two things: 1) Exactly how much Office Depot makes by selling overpriced "protection" plans. 2) How much it will cost Office Depot because of stories about the company being abusive on Reddit.com [reddit.com], Digg.com [digg.com], and Slashdot.

Not only that, but it seems to me that they're doing it wrong if they're pushing an extended warranty with the hard-sell. Its supposed to be an impulse buy that customers don't really care one way or another about, so they'll agree to another nickel and dime.

I worked at gamestop for a while, they have their version of the extended warranty that was for 1 year on new and used games, for something like three dollars I think. The trick was telling the customers they wanted to spend just a tiny bit more rather than trying to convince them it was in their interest. I guess some people see gamestop employees as authorities on games and listen to them, which is silly.

If Office Depot is having problems pushing the extended warranties on people, they're charging too much, and possibly offering too much, making it something people actually think about rather than just saying "sure, I don't care." Maybe they should offer the same warranty that the manufacturer does for like $20 or $10, and in the fine print say something like we'll ship it to the manufacturer for you, you'll get your replacement in 4-6 weeks.

And by "should" I mean "they're clearly without morals, so this is just doing it smarter, and they'd go to hell quicker for doing it."

Re:Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[Nick Ives]

Because once you get past having enough money to survive the rest of your life, money just becomes a way of keeping score. I remember hearing Bernie Ecclestone saying it once in an interview and I've heard other very rich people express the same sentiment.

I expect someone like Buffett will have a hundred million or so stashed somewhere. He could loose everything else and still be able to live better than virtually almost anyone else in the world.

Re:Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[E. T. Moonshade]

Just as a note, while Odland is a dick, and there's a good chunk of OD employees who disapprove of him, the company itself consistently wins customer service awards - apparently, the "Stevie" (whatever the hell THAT is) was won this year by the company.

This is an isolated and overblown incident - and if someone at my store pulled this stunt, they'd be fired - right before I punched them in the face (If they're no longer employed, it's just simple assault, right? ;) (bonus points - I'm not a manager, just management-ready) We actually -do- value our customers, especially in our store where we get plenty of regular ones.

That being said - we -are- encouraged to sell PPPs at our store, and they -do- get touchy if we don't. Also though, experience counts. I bought a $300 chair with one of the PPPs, using my tax rebate money last year. The back snapped off it near the beginning of this year - called 'em up, got my money back for it. I'll grant, it comes back on a gift card, but it can be used for pretty much anything you want in-store short of another gift card. ;p

And yes, as far as the stores are concerned, the PPP is damned near pure profit. On the other hand, like I said - perhaps I've had a dose of the kool-aid, but not having to spend another crapload of money (especially when I'm making retail money) on something gives one a different perspective on the things.

Assclowns like the employee mentioned in the original article? They're just trying to draw a paycheck and keep a job in this economy. The ones who actually believe in the plans are the ones who are A: not pushy, and B: successful. ... I rambled. Sorry. _

I can top that...

[TiggertheMad]

I worked at ChimpUSA in college (same shit, different company), and once of my co-workers with less than stellar morals managed to sell some lady a 1 year warranty on printer ink.

When the boss found out, he yelled at the guy, not for being a total slimeball, but because the woman could have probably come back and got free replacements for her 'defective' (re:empty) ink cartridges for the next year...

Re:I can top that...

[MistrBlank]

A clever manager would be able to point to the clause that states normal wear through proper usage is not covered.

He probably wasn't clever enough for that though.

How does that work?

[interkin3tic]

While this is an annoying policy on paper, there are several ways I could see this actually playing out, and none of them really seem to work.

Scenario 1

Customer: "Hi, I want to buy this laptop"
Clerk: "You wanna buy an extended warranty?"
Customer: "No thanks"
Clerk: "We don't have any in stock"
Customer: "Uh... then yes I do?"
Clerk: "We just got some in right now!"
Customer: "Then I'll take one without the warranty."
Clerk: "Aw, what a shame, we just sold out."

Scenario 2

Clerk: "Hey, you seem interested in that there laptop, you want to buy one?"
Customer: "Sure."
Clerk: "Extended warranty?"
Customer: "No thanks"
Clerk: "Sorry, I just checked, we're out of stock"
Customer: "But... you didn't go anywhere, you didn't even act like you were looking in the stock room"
Clerk: "Uh... Telepathy!"

Scenario 3:

Customer: "I want this laptop."
Clerk: "You want extend waranty."
Customer: "No"
Clerk: "No computer in stock"
Customer: "Yes you do, this box right here, in my hand, I want to buy it."
Clerk: "Me ring up"
Customer: "Okay here"
(Customer hands computer to Clerk, Clerk smashes the computer with a primitive club)
Clerk: "No computer in stock."

Then again, I haven't worked in retail for a long time, maybe my "Lying to strangers" skills are rusty.

Re:OD Sales

[symbolset]

When the purpose of a store becomes to avoid the simple sale of the product at the marked price, management has failed and the store is doomed.

This seems familiar...

[tnok85]

Back in high school, I worked at a Media Play. It was a chain similar to Best Buy and Circuit City, but it had a massive book section alongside video games, software, music, and movies.

I worked in the video games/software section as a sales associate. Unfortunately, they didn't pay us commissions, but they sure as hell threatened us with losing our jobs if we didn't meet quotas.

Let me list out what we had to push on customers:

- "Free" issue of some general entertainment magazine (That would automatically charge your card if you didn't cancel in a week)
- "Free" issue of some movie magazine (That would automatically charge your card if you didn't cancel in a week)
- Dish TV subscription. (Yes, they wanted 16 year old 'associates' pushing a new TV form. Needless to say, only one person EVER sold one, and that was a manager)
- Media Play Rewards Card (The only semi-reasonable thing, low signup fee and money back - worth it if you spent more than a hundred dollars a year there)
- A Discover credit card... what the hell?

These were required to be pushed on EVERY CUSTOMER we saw, regardless of if they were walking to another section or not. I felt worst for the people heading towards the book section, as they had to pass through two other sections and were accosted at least once or twice before even reaching the book section.

This was only required if the customer was buying something electronic: (Gameboy, XBox, Playstation, etc)

- Extended Warranty Plan

We were told to lie about this, saying it was 100% coverage no matter what happened. Needless to say, 16 year old employees do not care to read a 10 page document of fine print to find this out. Not to mention that the store was on the way to being closed down (and they knew it) so these 3 year warranties wouldn't be honored anyway.

I never sold a single 'extra', even going so far as to tell people directly that these 'deals' were scams (except for the Media Play Rewards card, but I told them it'd be easier to just ask the cashier about it if they were interested) but I kept my job because I got a half dozen reports to my manager from customers about what a great employee I was. ;) I still got bitched at, but I kept my job.

And this is a situation where there's no commission.. ;)

For the benefit of the doubt

[despeaux]

I worked at Office Depot in Seattle for almost two years as a technology salesman. I know the system very well, and I can, with complete honesty, say that our store managers and the employees who sold the plans cared very much about the customers.

Yes, the employees and managers make a profit and bonuses (both) from selling them. And perhaps the plans are a bit more expensive than they should be.

But ya know what? If a customer ever came back to the store, complaining about a product that they had purchased that broke, for WHATEVER reason, we would ALWAYS take care of them if they had purchased a plan, even if they were still under the manufacturer's warranty. You can hate on OD all you want, and there very well may be "evil" stores out there who are just out to screw customers, but my experience was very different.

Our store had frequent repeat customers, because we would simply ask them if they wanted the plan. If they said no, we let it be. If they were hesitant, we would explain exactly what it would do for them. Because of this straightforward, honest, approach, people liked us and we always sold more plans than most other stores in the whole company.

So, again, it sucks that there are these bad policies put in place by certain stores, but you should know that not all stores take this approach, even if it is demanded by upper management. Having the customer's trust always brought more business.

A fool and his money are soon parted

[fulldecent]

Everyone here knows not to buy these warranties. People who do buy the warranties subsidize the cheaper purchases that YOU make. This is how they offer the good deals on priceline (except on priceline stores, they call it "accessories").

By bringing attention to the matter, you are making it harder for us in-the-knows to buy things for subsidized prices.

Circuit City Back in the Day

[abroadst]

16 years ago when I worked for Circuit City they had a similar procedure. Sales counselors (as we were called) weren't explicitly instructed to deny the product to customers who didn't want the "cheese" (aka extended service plan or ESP) - but we too were subject to management scolding and eventual firing if we didn't meet our quotas. So there was a significant incentive to tell customers who didn't want the ESP, especially on a promotional item with a low spiff (aka commission) that they should either buy something else or maybe wait around awhile while the sales person ignores you until you leave. From the sales person's perspective, why bother selling a laptop that pays the sales person a dollar or 2 (if it's on sale) and reduces his or her ESP percentage? The only way out is to lie about stock, sell lots of overpriced accessories, or upsell to a higher margin unit with a higher spiff.