How Office Depot Pushes Service Plans On Customers

Harry writes "I was amused, appalled, and angry — yes, all three — when I spotted signs above every register at my local Office Depot with handy scripts for clerks to use in 'recommending' that customers buy extra-cost, extremely profitable protection plans. And now Laptop Magazine has posted an eye-opening investigative report that charges local Office Depot stores with instructing staffers to lie and tell people who want to buy laptops without service plans that they're out of stock." Update: 03/13 00:53 GMT by T : An employee with Office Depot, somewhere in the southeastern US, wrote to respond to this story as a employee of the company, but in his off time and not in any official capacity: "I will only say that what is described in your article and the Laptop Mag article is not something that occurs across the entire company as sanctioned or ordered by the Corporate Higher Ups and is certainly nothing I have experienced as a 10-year employee of the company, we want sales. Yes, we want add-ons, but we will take the sales regardless."

Comments

The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[eldavojohn]

I've seen these sheets and the further down you read the uglier it gets:

... if the customer somehow still refuses to purchase a warranty plan and can see the SKU on display, assess whether or not you could outrun the customer:

• If YES, grab the company knife from underneath the counter and ask the customer to think of the extended warranty as "protection money."
• If NO and you haven't already seen the victim ... er ... customer's credit card, grab the company camera under the counter and shoot photos as they leave the store. Be sure to get their license plate numbers clearly photographed and submit all photos in a dossier clearly marked "OPEN SEASON" to the Scientology division of Office Depot.

Remember, you're helping them by saving them the loss N years from now when it breaks and they didn't buy an N + 1 year warranty.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[fm6]

Remember, you're helping them by saving them the loss N years from now when it breaks and they didn't buy an N + 1 year warranty.

I'm reminded of a certain really bad thriller starring Judd Nelson as a serial killer. He'd always inform his victims that he was there to "help" them.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[vindimy]

Everyone talks about Circuit City, and indeed, these news are nothing new... Every electronics outlet does that to stay competitive, no? If everyone steals, you either steal too, or go out of business.

Here's an account of a former Circuit City employee.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[SpecBear]

Circuit City is bankrupt. Apparently this tactic didn't actually keep them competitive. I suspect Office Depot will follow suit.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[w0mprat]

I accuse you of down playing the issue, you conveniently missed the what was further down.

...If threats of violence fail to persuade the customer to pay for the protection policy proceed to detain the customer in the sound proof room behind the office and follow the procedures in the Stage 1 Pain and Humiliation guide. Do not proceed with Stage 2 Amputation and Mutilation until completing stage 1

...

...be sure to sever the finger/kneecap all the way through ...

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[jamstar7]

Kind of like the 4th Greatest Lie of History: "Hi. I'm from the Government. I"m here to help."

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[Tubal-Cain]

No. 1 being: "I never lied as a kid."

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[CokeBear]

New great lie of history: "I'm from (wall street/mortgage broker/bank/investment firm) and I'm here to help."

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[kingramon0]

That's not capitalism, that is stupidity. When they go bankrupt, that is capitalism removing the inefficient supplier from the market.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[mcvos]

Offering an extended warranty as an extra? Sure, go ahead. But refusing a sale to a customer who doesn't want the extended warranty? Then you're just begging to go out of business.

By the way, aren't there any laws about false advertising in whatever country Office Depot operates in?

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[commodore64_love]

When I worked at Sears they made us push their "protection plans" which supposedly were better than extended warranties because a technician would clean your refrigerator or dryer or whatever once a year. Well, I can clean my own unit thank you, and so too can my customer.

I quit that job as quickly as I could. I don't like lying to customers. Fact is: You Do Not Need an extended warranty. Most items die during the first few months, and that repair is provided FREE by the manufacturer. If an item survives its infancy, it will last a long long time.

And when it finally dies 10-15 years later, it's cheaper to just buy a new unit than to pay that ~$50/year ($500 per decade) extended warranty fee.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[commodore64_love]

P.S.

What really annoyed me about Sears is, if you don't sell their extended warranties, they take you off the floor & make you sit in the break room watching videos. All day. You can't earn a commission if they force you off the floor. I can't believe such tactics are legal.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[Fred_A]

Circuit City is bankrupt. Apparently this tactic didn't actually keep them competitive.

Obviously they didn't lie enough.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[sesshomaru]

The same thing happened to me at Radio Shack. Of course, I think I probably just wasn't selling enough stuff. (I refused to buy things myself or have family come in and by things to pad my numbers. I was just supposed to be a spending money job for while I was in college full time, anyway.) This was years ago. What they did was zeroed out my hours.

I still had to go to the meetings with the greasy guy explaining the great value of extended service plans, though. "When the customer comes back with an extended service plan, you tell him... he'll be like a king. Now, you might have a hard time selling a service plan that costs more than the item itself [some cheap headphones], but you replace the item 3 times on the service plan, you tell him, and you've more than made the money back." Of course I quit... stopped shopping at Radio Shack, too.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[Lee in Ohio]

Gee Whiz...I've worked at Office Depot for 11 years in two different stores as a technology sales person. I've never seen such sheets as mentioned, nor have I ever had any advice to do anything but tell the customer the truth. Well...save for one boss...who was fired.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[Natetheinfamous]

Kind of like the Brewster sisters in "Arsenic and Old Lace"...

Only more evil

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[cayenne8]

"Kind of like the 4th Greatest Lie of History: "Hi. I'm from the Government. I"m here to help."

I know the first two:

The check is in your mouth...

and

I won't cum in your mailbox...

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[MightyMartian]

The problem is that the margins on electronics, and in particular notebooks, are so low that the only way a lot of these places can remain viable is to sell extended warranty plans. It's been like that for some time. I was working for a guy who sold point-of-sale systems back in the early 1990s, and basically the hardware was little more than a giveaway. We made a respectable margin on the software, but the real money was in setting up the systems and consultation.

Unfortunately, when you're just a big box store, the whole notion of service is meaningless, particularly when it's the bloodsport of commission sales. To be honest with you, I pretty much avoid those stores now, either dealing online or with the few small-time computer stores in my area which, oddly enough, usually have a better selection and aren't that different on prices.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[SkeezerDoodle]

We don't have any Velcro stores where I live. Is that a West Coast thing?

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[mcvos]

The problem is that the margins on electronics, and in particular notebooks, are so low

Then maybe they should increase those margins. Drawing customers with low prices and then charging them much higher prices is (or should be) illegal.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[MightyMartian]

Oh I agree, if the margins are too low, raise them or just get out of the business entirely. I, quite frankly, would never be nuts enough to run a computer store. I don't think there's any room left, and if the only way to make a buck is to screw the consumer with high-pressure sales and unnecessary warranty programs, then I'd say you're business is little more than a pile of bullshit.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[z0rprim3]

Umm... do you know how retail works? It's not the up to the store. There's a little more involved but basically the margin is the difference between how much the store got said item and its MSRP (manufacture suggested retail price). If the store got a laptop for $800 but it's MSRP is $824.99 you'll begin to see that in order to make a decent profit it would need to sell hundreds of units. Now throw your attachments in there where it costs almost nothing for the company do. That $199 3 yr extended warranty really costs the company $19. On let's say 5 of these sales: (($824.99 - $800) + ($199 - $19)) x 5 ~ $1025... that's a lot more impressive than just 5 lone laptop sales giving the store a revenue of $125. CHA-CHING!

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[jamstar7]

#1 is: The check's in the mail.

#2 is: I won't cum in your mouth.

#3 is: I'll still respect you in the morning.

and #5 is: This won't hurt a bit.

Re:The More You Read the Uglier It Gets

[mcvos]

So they increases the margins by a lot, but pretend they didn't. That's dishonest on several levels. If they need to sell the laptop for $1025, then they need to advertise it for $1025, not advertise it for $825 and refuse to sell it for that amount. That's false advertising.

Better Question

[moniker127]

Why would you buy a computer at office depot?

Re:Better Question

[Narnie]

Why would you buy a computer at office depot?

Because you need something with enough mass to make it through the store window when you plan on returning it?

Because you don't feel satisfied with a computer purchase unless you know you've been ripped off?

Because Office Depot is the only place that will extend you credit because you put a months worth of hookers and blow on your creditcard?

Re:Better Question

[IANAAC]

Why would you buy a computer at office depot?

Not so long ago you could have said the same thing about Best Buy - why would you buy a computer from them?

If you can find a better deal at Office Depot, why not?

Re:Better Question

[moniker127]

Id still say the same thing about best buy.

Re:Better Question

[HeronBlademaster]

I still say the same thing about Best Buy. What was your point again? ;P

Re:Better Question

[dcooper_db9]

Why not? I've noticed that prices at office supply store are sometimes deeply discounted. I suspect that people who pay for the warranties are subsidizing the rest of us.

My parents bought a computer from Dell many years ago. When it turned out to have a problem, Dell refused to honor the extended warranty. I haven't paid for a PC warranty since then (or bought from Dell). If I'm buying off the shelf it doesn't matter where I get it. It's all about price.

Re:Better Question

[cob666]

I recently purchased an HP laptop at Best Buy that ended up being a few dollars cheaper than what it would have cost to buy direct from HP once you added in the shipping costs and the sales tax.

Re:Better Question

[Icarus1919]

Thank god, someone with some information I can use. Where is it, again, that I can put blow on my credit card?

Re:Better Question

[NeverVotedBush]

I would never buy a computer from Best Buy or from Office Depot. Or Circuit City. Or Office Max. Or any retail outlet that sells cookie cutter computers to the general public.

You're going to get a stock package that works, but isn't going to have much RAM, not much of a hard drive, a slow processor, a small screen, etc. And the parts you get are going to generally be the cheapest the system builder could find.

I know many might think it's a waste of money, but I'll buy the parts I want, put the money where it will do the most good for me and how I use a computer, and build it myself. I've always done it this way and always will.

Don't all real, manly, Slashdotters do that? ;-)

Re:Better Question

[Digital Vomit]

Not so long ago you could have said the same thing about Best Buy

You mean, like, "yesterday"?

Re:Better Question

[RudeIota]

It's a "high-low" store. They have outrageous prices on some stuff, good prices on others. And when they need a boost, sales keep the customers coming in despite their embarrassingly high prices for certain merchandise (computers).

Sometimes the sales are attractive -- and that would be the answer to your question.

Re:Better Question

[AmigaMMC]

What if you buy a laptop, does that count as a "computer"? Is not like a Gateway/Sony/(insert favorite brand) laptop sold at Best Buy is going to be different than one sold directly by those brands.

Re:Better Question

[Pingmaster]

Because you know where to get hookers on your credit card? putting blow on your credit card is easy. Step 1, buy blow with cash. Step 2, distribute some on the surface of a credit card. There you have it, blow on a credit card!

Re:Better Question

[schmiddy]

Where is it, again, that I can put blow on my credit card?

Glad I could help. On a serious note, if you're the sharp type and good at reading fine print, you can occasionally make money with "credit card arbitrage" by taking advantage of 0% APR balance transfer options. Not for the faint of heart, of course. Or you can take advantage of the US Mint's offers to sell dollar coins at face value with free shipping to skim credit card rewards points.

Re:Better Question

[Mr. Underbridge]

Why would you buy a computer at office depot?

I dunno, because they have the identical model cheaper than elsewhere?

I helped my mother-in-law get a laptop from Office Depot, and I got one a few months later from Best Buy. In both cases, they were far cheaper than I could have gotten them straight from HP, by a few hundred dollars if I recall. In that case, why the hell wouldn't you get it wherever it's cheapest - the computer's the same either way.

For what it's worth, I didn't experience the behavior discussed in the article. I'm sure they pushed the warranty, I said no, done.

Re:Better Question

[Conficio]

Well, sometimes they simply have good offers. Limited selection but good deals.

Re:Better Question

[Lumpy]

Same reason I bought my new dell laptop at Staples..

it was $350.00 cheaper than I could get the exact same thing with my partner pricing from dell.com.

I saved a crapload of cash and got it right now instead of waiting a week and paying for shipping.

for some reason these office supply stores have insane deals that the manufacturers cant touch. Funny part is that I was able to buy a dell extended warranty for it when I got to work at dell.com for 1/2 the price of their special staples care package.

Re:Better Question

[sgt_doom]

Because, douchebag, you are sowing the seeds of your own demise.

Buy from a national chain, and the money flows outward, probably never to return to your region/city/neighborhood.

For every $100 spent at a national book chain, only an infinitesimal amount remains locally (something like $10 or so). Buy from a local book store, and at least $45 remains in your neighborhood.

Which means more employment, etc., etc. Dig????

And in the present economy - which will take from 10 to 20 years to rebound from, if they immediately get rid of Geithner, Bernanke, Summers, et al., and send in the military to all the offshore tax havens (or finance centers) and confiscate all those records for American and American-based multinationals who refuse to pay their taxes (73% at last count) by utilizing the process of "money laundering"......we need every extra bit we can squeeze out of it.

Re:Better Question

[MightyYar]

Actually, they make them just different enough to make it impossible to compare prices directly. It's quite annoying.

Re:Better Question

[fractoid]

Anywhere you want, but I suggest a discreet location such as your lounge room or kitchen.

Oh... OH. You meant BUY it. Nevermind.

Re:Better Question

[Tubal-Cain]

It's a "high-low" store.

Contrast with Circuit City, which was a high-really_high store.

Re:Better Question

[IANAAC]

Buy from a national chain, and the money flows outward, probably never to return to your region/city/neighborhood. For every $100 spent at a national book chain, only an infinitesimal amount remains locally (something like $10 or so). Buy from a local book store, and at least $45 remains in your neighborhood. Which means more employment, etc., etc. Dig????

Great! Point me to a local, non-national chain store to buy a netbook or MID (or laptop, for that matter) and I'm totally there (oh, and I should add at an attractive price, since that's usually what takes people to national chains).

Look, electronics and books are two very different industries and you just can't compare them. Books can be and are sometimes published and produced locally. I don't know of any local, US-based place that produces the electronics I would use. Dig?

Re:Better Question

[Culture20]

Why would you buy a computer at office depot?

Just before netbooks came out, they were selling the low-end laptops (which are still better than netbooks) for ~$400. Not a bad deal.

Re:Better Question

[fireheadca]

You had me at manly.

Re:Better Question

[badasscat]

You're going to get a stock package that works, but isn't going to have much RAM, not much of a hard drive, a slow processor, a small screen, etc. And the parts you get are going to generally be the cheapest the system builder could find.

I know many might think it's a waste of money, but I'll buy the parts I want,

Yeah good luck with building your own laptop from parts you've bought.

I bought my wife's laptop at Best Buy and it is a better laptop in some ways than my own - and my own is a year newer and a ThinkPad that I had custom-built to order by Lenovo. And hers cost $400. RAM is cheap; if you're going to complain about not having much RAM, well good lord, spend fifteen bucks on an upgrade.

Best Buy is big enough that it gets custom configurations at prices lower than you can custom order the same model direct from the manufacturer web site (in this case, we're talking mostly HP, Sony and Acer). Office Depot occasionally gets similar deals.

Obviously I still believe in custom building to order because I did it myself, but I don't see that I got any particular advantage over my wife's pre-built laptop by doing so. In fact, my laptop's been in the shop twice over the first three months I've had it, whereas hers never has been. There's nothing I can do with my laptop that she can't. And I paid more for my machine.

Re:Better Question

[bsDaemon]

I just bought a new laptop last Friday from Best Buy. It's a Toshiba with dual-core 64bit amd processor at 2.0Ghz, 3GB of RAM, 250MB hard disk, 15.4" screen, dvd-ram, etc. Running FreeBSD and everything works just peachy (except the internal web cam just yet, but then I've never had luck with webcams or printers on any os), so I'm not sure that your assertions hold much water. However, no, I wouldn't buy a pre-made desktop. Where's the fun in that?

Re:Better Question

[bretticus]

250MB hard disk

In this case, I think I'm going to have to agree with the OP.

Re:Better Question

[interkin3tic]

Great! Point me to a local, non-national chain store to buy a netbook or MID (or laptop, for that matter) and I'm totally there.

Do you happen to live in Richfield, Minnesota? Because if that non-national part isn't a sticker, there's this company there called Best Buy you should look into.

If not, I'm 100% out of ideas.

Re:Better Question

[drinkypoo]

For every $100 spent at a national book chain, only an infinitesimal amount remains locally (something like $10 or so). Buy from a local book store, and at least $45 remains in your neighborhood.

You're assuming that the owner of the local book store invests profits locally. That's not a safe assumption.

The vast majority of retail stores are going away. They are being killed by internet shopping. This is not a bad thing. You think it's a bad thing because it interferes with your immediate gratification. However, most people waste a lot of energy when they shop. Internet shopping is a lot more efficient because all the driving involved can be optimized for efficiency of route.

And in the present economy - which will take from 10 to 20 years to rebound from, if they immediately get rid of Geithner, Bernanke, Summers, et al., and send in the military to all the offshore tax havens (or finance centers) and confiscate all those records for American and American-based multinationals who refuse to pay their taxes (73% at last count) by utilizing the process of "money laundering"......we need every extra bit we can squeeze out of it.

I'm not sure that's really what is called for; you can observe public financials and find out enough to detect wrongdoing. And if we just expected the top taxpayers to pay taxes on 100% of their income like the rest of us, we wouldn't have a tax problem anyway. It doesn't matter if your money came from actual economic activity of your own or just investing it in a bank and collecting interest, either way the money wouldn't exist without the government, and even if it did you wouldn't be able to hold onto the money without it, so being taxed on it is always reasonable - it's the degree to which certain people are taxed which is objectionable, and the degree to which some are able to avoid paying taxes on their income which is utterly unreasonable.

Re:Better Question

[commodore64_love]

>>>isn't going to have much RAM, not much of a hard drive, a slow processor

I bought my current computer Best Buy, and it did come stacked. Two hard drives, 2 terabytes of storage, 16 gig of RAM, 3000-something megahertz DualCore.

Re:Better Question

[jridley]

I actually did buy a laptop at OD about a month ago. I bought it there because laptops are just a damn commodity, they had the one I want and they had the best price. I don't want any support from the store, I just want to give them money and have them give me a laptop, factory sealed, and I'm done with them.
Why would I *not* buy a computer there? OK, this article gives one good reason (not wanting to deal with dishonest people) but it sounds like all the office supply stores do the same.

I've actually been buying most of the computer stuff that I don't get from Newegg at either Staples or OD lately, since Circuit City and CompUSA are gone, the only other option is Best Buy and I won't intentionally give them a dime.

Re:Better Question

[jridley]

Actually I just bought a laptop for my daughter at OD, and it came with dual core, 3GB of RAM and a 250G hard drive for $500. It's a pretty nice looking machine too. Maybe that sounds like "not much ram and not much hard drive" to you, but it sounds pretty good to me. She actually has the highest spec machine in our house right now.

Where exactly do you go to buy the parts you want and build a laptop?

I actually used to own a business building custom laptops. For many years I built all my machines myself. For the last 5 years or so, I just buy prebuilt machines, because I'm not a gamer so even the cheapest of machines is still way more than I need, and I can buy a cheap machine for less than I can buy the parts to build one. I usually price them out, but for 5 years I've wound up just buying one already built.

I'm sure in YOUR case building is the right option, and you didn't say that it was the right option for everyone, but in the larger discussion here, buying a pre-built computer is just fine for many people, even including myself, even though I've built easily hundreds of machines. This may be because I've built so damn many machines that it holds no interest for me anymore; I won't do it unless I'm really getting something that I both need and can't buy.

Re:Better Question

[DrgnDancer]

I'm not manly enough to build laptops, nor to lug desktop systems around on my back with a monitor attached to a helmet.

Re:Better Question

[stewbacca]

Because all generic low-end PCs cost roughly the same amount of money, and if Office Depot is closer to my house, on the way home, has a hot clerk, is next to my favorite bar, etc. etc., why NOT shop there?

Re:Better Question

[bsDaemon]

Damned typos... yes, I meant GB. And I got $20 off a 500GB external USB hard disk if I bought them together. Seeing as how I doubt I've generated 10GB of content in my entire life, I ought to best set for space.

Re:Better Question

[Anonymous Coward]

The parent post wasn't referring to the manufacturer, but the retailer. You can find plenty of local electronics retailers if you would leave your house for once.

Re:Better Question

[fataugie]

Thank you....I thought I better peruse the comments before adding my $0.02.

My first thought when reading the article was...who the f#ck buys a computer at Office Depot unless they are the LAST place in town with stock and you absolutely, positively need it right now. Otherwise, Newegg baby!

Re:Better Question

[digitalunity]

I got a HP dv4 at Best Buy for $639 on sale with a 250 GB hard drive, 4 GB ram and Vista 64 Home Premium. The key is to do your research before you enter ANY store, so that you can make a rational purchasing decision. Know exactly what you want and don't take any substitutes, because if you have the patience, anything you want can be had online. I got exactly the right amount of computer for me at a great price. Sure, they tried to push an extended warranty, geek squad bullshit, etc. but I said no. If I had taken the warranty, MS Office, geek squad bullshit I would have paid over $900. Screw that. In comparison, I found a similar HP dv4 at Office Depot for $899, which was almost identical but had a thumbprint reader. If I had not done research and blindly accepted what the Office Depot rep called a "great buy", I would have royally screwed myself.

I promptly removed the minimal amount of trialware that was installed and have really enjoyed my nice shiny new laptop.

I used to build my own desktops but quickly realized 1) it's not financially rational, upgrading an OEM box makes a lot more sense and 2) really, I just don't have the time. I have an old Athlon 64 box I did put together in my girlfriend's sons room running Ubuntu. It's got my mailserver and SSH running, so I can access Linux any time I need.

Re:Better Question

[Coopjust]

I bought a cheapie Toshiba in May 2007 for $600 + Tax. Came with Vista Home Premium, an 160GB Hard drive, 15.4" display, 1GB of RAM. It didn't run Aero, but it was the cheapest laptop I could get with decent specs at that time, and it has great Ubuntu compatibility, which I wanted to move the recipient to if possible. I was buying it for a nontechnical friend who needed a web processing/email machine.

Thing is still running great after two years of good usage. However, when I tried to buy it, I was hounded by three employees for five minutes. When I gave them "My AmEx gives me an additional year on the warranty free" spiel, they relented and sold me the laptop- after they spent another 5 minutes trying to sell me Microsoft Office, a laptop backpack, Geek Squad, etc.

In their defense, they eventually relented and sold me the laptop. It helps that it was very much visible in a glass case, and was the Sunday special.

Re:Better Question

[cayenne8]

"you can occasionally make money with "credit card arbitrage" by taking advantage of 0% APR balance transfer options. "

Interesting...I'd always kinda thought someone could do that with those cards, but, never heard of it having a proper name, nor that many people doing it.

I started looking about at it..interesting.

I'm guessing in the current economic mkt, it is quite a bit harder to do this, with less 0% no interest cards out there, and interest rates down.

Have you done it much? What kind of success? Still doing it?

Re:Better Question

[danlyke]

In my case, because I got run out of several other places when I asked if I could boot an Ubuntu live CD in order to check for compatibility, but the OfficeDepot guy said "sure, no problem".

And because I've twice gotten some really good answers to "what have you got in the back that was returned that you really don't want to deal with and will cut me a radical deal on?" question.

Re:Better Question

[schmiddy]

I haven't tried it yet myself -- I think the prime opportunities for credit card arbitrage are mostly passed. In order for it to work, you need:

1. A checking account/savings account/CD with a suitably high (preferably 5% to 6%) interest rate on a large amount of money.
2. A very high credit limit, that you don't need to use for anything other than this arbitrage
3. A good credit score, and not mind taking a temporary hit to your credit as your debt to credit ratio temporarily balloons while you have the loan outstanding.

For item 1.), this is getting tricky -- there are a few checking/savings accounts yielding 5% to 6%, though there's always the danger the yields will be driven down at any moment. Best deal I've seen is United FCU's 6% guaranteed until 2010.

For item 2.) I've noticed a drying of credit from credit card companies lately, though if you already have built up a huge credit limit, you may be in luck. You also, of course, need an attractive 0% cash advance or balance transfer offer from the credit card company with no hidden fees. Sometimes, they'll charge you 4% up front for any cash advance. They'll also apply any payment you send to the lowest interest rate loan you have outstanding -- so you basically can't use the card for any other substantial purchases while your large loan is outstanding.

For item 3.), you just need to be aware you'll take a credit score hit for the year or however long you have the loan outstanding. Not a huge deal, *unless* you're planning on buying a house or car on credit in the next year or so.

Re:Better Question

[sgt_doom]

The vast majority of retail stores are going away. They are being killed by internet shopping. This is not a bad thing.

Wrong, douchebag #2.

The bookstore pays local commercial property taxes..the bookstore employs locals....I could go on and on covering various local categories..but you appear woefully ignorant about these matters.

Any suggestion after ALL the confirming data is now in, that globalization is "not a bad thing" - along with all those forms of commercial consolidation meant to lower wages and increase the wages and perks of senior management -- can't be disputed by even the dumbest among us.

Chuck Norris only plays Special Forces types in the movies, he was Mental Category Four in the USAF.

Company or store policy?

[Ethanol-fueled]

Heh, that sounds about right.

I worked for OfficeMax a few years ago. Everybody who worked there received commissions for selling those overpriced plans to customers.

I'm wondering if the examples discussed in TFA are a companywide policy a la Best Buy with their seperate pricing for internet and intranet, or the brainchild of some greedy store manager. When I worked as a film-developer for a major drugstore chain, the store manager approached me about finding a way to cheat customers using standard processing for customers who turned in their film with premium envelopes(which means that customers who wanted offsite "premium" processing would instead have their stuff done in-house, saving us tons of cash and leaving us hoping that the customer wouldn't notice the lack of the extra features they wanted ^_^).

My biggest mistake in that job was mentioning the word "ethics" to my manager. I was never promoted ^_^

Re:Company or store policy?

[Aladrin]

Office Depot does not pay commissions. Instead, they just threaten your job if you don't sell enough. Since the employees are easy replaceable, even at near-minimum-wage, they don't have to care.

Yes, I used to work there as a 'customer service representative' (or some stupid title) and I was told 'never lie', etc etc... And then told that if I didn't sell enough plans there would be problems.

I refused to lie and refused to even -try- to sell the plans to people who didn't want them. Most of the time, I didn't even mention them. The only way I survived was that I was the -only- employee with any actual computer knowledge. I could actually fix computers where others couldn't even name the parts if they weren't labeled. (Okay, there were a couple that could install RAM, if they -had- to.)

They don't just push those plans, though. They also push overpriced ink, paper, cords, power strips... Anything and everything to add money to that sale.

Obviously, the employees hate that shit as much as the customers do. I'm not surprised that they've resorted to lying directly from management to the customer to try to sell the extras.

The one article claims a really odd commission system... While it wasn't in effect when I was there, it was the kind of bullshit they'd pull, so it might be true. They're really, really cheap though, so I seriously doubt it's true.

Re:Company or store policy?

[sahonen]

I worked for OfficeMax a few years ago. Everybody who worked there received commissions for selling those overpriced plans to customers.

OfficeMax was my shitty high school job, I had the same thing... I don't think I'll ever forget the poor customer who bought the protection plan on a $5 mouse because I was following the script and she didn't know how to say "no." I stopped following the script after that.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Jurily]

My biggest mistake in that job was mentioning the word "ethics" to my manager. I was never promoted ^_^

Heh. I actually used the sentence "If you want to be ripped off that badly, I can get a colleague for you, but I won't sell you this" once. I was supposed to sell phone plans and horribly crappy and overpriced ADSL connections together. The phone part was good though.

I worked a total of four days there.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Ethanol-fueled]

Obviously, the employees hate that shit as much as the customers do.

Yes! Laymen, please keep that in mind the next time you get that crap from one of us working that shit job. Also know that those bullshit policies are often enforced by secret shoppers. Secret shoppers are people who work for agencies who are paid by the company to monitor employee behavioral compliance.

OfficeMax didn't have them then, but the drugstore chain did. In that case, the random weekly visits measured for all of the employees working in the store(YMMV):

Did the employee greet you with a smile?
Did the employee ask you if you found everything you wanted?
Did the employee offer to take(or call somebody to take) you to the item?
Did the employee offer a friendly parting comment?

I never found out for sure, but I've heard that store managers receive bonuses for keeping payrolls low. My store manager was paid 63K a year while the understaffed underlings often work for minimum wages. Keep that in mind the next time you visit a drug or grocery store with 30 people in line being served by only 2 cashiers.

Re:Company or store policy?

[garett_spencley]

"I never found out for sure, but I've heard that store managers receive bonuses for keeping payrolls low. My store manager was paid 63K a year while the understaffed underlings often work for minimum wages. Keep that in mind the next time you visit a drug or grocery store with 30 people in line being served by only 2 cashiers."

Oh please. Everything up until that paragraph I would buy as plausible. But do you know WHY they pay their employees so little ? Because people are willing to take the jobs at those wages. Do you know why they only have 2 cashiers working ? Because people are willing to wait in line a little longer to pay cheaper prices (otherwise Walmart would not be in business, let alone so huge).

Do you know why the employer wants to pay as little for labour as possible ? Because labour is an operational cost, just like leasing office space, buying equipment and paying for advertising etc. EVERYONE, whether you're a business owner or not, always wants to sell high and buy low. That's not greed. It's common sense. However, what people really don't get about it is that by keeping operational costs down, the prices get kept down. So while people's wages may be lower, their costs of living is also lower. Raise the wages, raise the prices. We all make more money but not really because everything costs more.

As for managers, managers are not entrepreneurs. They are hired by the owners to oversee departments and divisions. Their wages are just as much an operational cost as any other employee's. Now, sure, of course they will do what they can to get a higher pay for doing less work, just like any employee will. But in the end the entrepreneur needs to keep ALL costs down in order to compete with other businesses. You know, to stay in business.

So if the owners are paying the managers ridiculously large wages while the people actually doing the "real work" are getting cheated then the entrepreneur will not be in business very long. It will only take ONE company to pay his manager just a little less (since apparently there's so much of an inflated salary to cut into right there), and pay his employees better (he'll take all the good employees and undermine his competitors on service) and presto, he's got the market share.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Yeef]

I used to work at the local Best Buy and, like most big retailers, they had us pushing the service plans and other stupid add-ons (magazine subscriptions, credit cards, etc). While they never told us to lie, they'd often tell us to omit mentioning any potential negatives unless the customer specifically asked about it.

Best Buy employees don't work on commission, true, but of course they gave more hours to the people that managed to get more customers to sign up for service plans. There's nothing wrong with that. Now, most of my co-workers were honest people; it wasn't uncommon to see some of them give the customers faulty information, but it was usually out of ignorance rather than trying to purposely be deceptive.

There was a handful of people, though, that would tell outright falsehoods to customers to get them to get a service plan or what have you. There was one employee in particular that would sign people up for the magazine subscriptions without even asking then (the 'free' trial that they charge you for after the 8th week if you don't cancel).

Of course, since I worked Customer Service I was the one who had to deal with all of the angry customers. Easily the most stressful job I've ever had. On the one side I had customers venting their frustrations at me. Then, with the way Best Buy's hierarchy is set up (there were about 12 managers, all with the same level of authority and conflicting sets of instructions) it was chaos trying to figure out exactly what they expected from me. So, I simply stuck to the official store policy and, of course, I got 'spoken to' (but not written up, because they really wouldn't have a leg to stand on) for accepting too many returns even though I was following company policy to the letter. After putting up with that shit for two years, I'd finally had enough and quit.

I suppose I'm going off on a tangent here, so let me get back on topic. I think that, with the exception of a few people, most retail employees loathe using lying to people, even if only through omission. Unfortunately, the way the system is setup, there isn't really much of a choice. I was fortunate enough that I could afford to quit a job that I hated (and that was back when the economy was still relatively good). But not everyone has that luxury. If you have a family to support or are a student paying your own tuition (as a lot of my co-workers were) it's not really an option. When I was working at Best Buy, the only people there that seemed to genuinely enjoy their job, other than the managers, were the people working in the warehouse (away from the customers). Most everyone else just sort of begrudgingly accepted that things could be worse and did their best to bear it.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Anonymous Coward]

no, he's right. I used to work at a Blockbuster and if the overall payroll for the week was lower (presumably there were a few set levels), the store manager got a cash bonus. i acknowledge that your free market bs about people taking the jobs and the consumers putting up with it is correct, but the bonus for low payroll is true. it's not illegal, it's not really immoral, it's just a shitty policy from a store that doesn't care about it's customers and is not surprisingly going under.

Re:Company or store policy?

[sahonen]

3/10, obvious troll is obvious. If it had more of an actual point I might have bitten. Keep trying, you'll get it.

Re:Company or store policy?

[shmlco]

"My store manager was paid 63K..."

Put in the ten or fifteen years and take all the training need to become a store manager, and you might be worth something too.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Ethanol-fueled]

So while people's wages may be lower, their costs of living is also lower.

Are you referring to the fact that many retailers hire high-school kids whenever possible? True, their costs of living are low. They usually don't pay rent or other subsistance money. What little they do make they save or buy bling with it. And there's far less guilt for treating them as expendables because most of them won't worry about rent or their next meal.

But do you know WHY they pay their employees so little...Because people are willing to wait in line a little longer to pay cheaper prices (otherwise Walmart would not be in business, let alone so huge)...

It will only take ONE company to pay his manager just a little less (since apparently there's so much of an inflated salary to cut into right there), and pay his employees better (he'll take all the good employees and undermine his competitors on service) and presto, he's got the market share.

I sense a contradiction there. Unless you're saying with a straight face that retail companies(especially no-union companies) strive to pay more for employees, or that businessmen are idiots.

Re:Company or store policy?

[LaskoVortex]

Could you be any more insulting to your species ?

Yes, of course he could. He could offer them a protection plan they don't need. I'd call that a first rate insult.

Re:Company or store policy?

[ENIGMAwastaken]

That's the stupidest bit of free-market fundamentalism I've heard today.

Due to all kinds of factors like economies of scale, customer loyalty, established physical presence, detailed infrastructure, etc. an existing company has so many competitive advantages over an upstart that to pretend some entrepreneur could (for God knows what reason) start up a consumer electronics store to take on, say Best Buy, is just absurd.

Somehow this perfect entrepreneur would have to know that (for example) Best Buy was paying its managers more than the market reasonably could bear (which is basically impossible since Best Buy now almost wholly comprises the market for big box consumer electronics store, which means that the price BB pays its managers is, de facto, "the market price") and, in order to leverage this into a competitive advantage over BB, this manager would have to run his stores at least as well as BB does in nearly every other respect (the stores would have to be roughly equal in other respects for this small competitive advantage to accrue) and he would have to hope that this disparity in price he pays his managers (which couldn't reasonably be more than a few ~10k per manager) would, eventually, allow him to overtake BB or at least put enough pressure on them to lower their wages, which they would do, driving this stupid entrepreneur out of business, because of all the aforementioned advantages Best Buy has as an entrenched company. For example, BB could pressure suppliers not to sell to this company, or to sell products to him at a higher rate, because BB accounts for a huge amount of, say, Toshiba's laptop PC sales. So if Best Buy says "Either stop selling to this guy with 5 stores or stop selling to me, and my 3500", what do you think Toshiba is going to do?

Of course, this is just an elaborate fiction. None is stupid enough to take on an entrenched monopoly like Best Buy for some Robin Hood goal of righting a wrong in manager pay when anyone with half a brain knows they would be pounded into dust like dozens of companies before them.

On its face, this claim is absurd, that all it would take is ONE company paying its managers "just a little" less will have any effect on anything. Like all free market fantasies, this falls apart as soon as you give it more than a moment's reflection. For example, it forces you to either conclude that Best Buy is almost absolutely perfectly efficient (doubtful) or business leaders would absolutely be jumping at the chance to take them on. Thus if your free market logic were so impeccable, you'd be able to secure money from real capitalists (ie., people with money) and enact the plan yourself. So why haven't you?

Re:Company or store policy?

[Anonymous Coward]

It will only take ONE company to pay his manager just a little less (since apparently there's so much of an inflated salary to cut into right there), and pay his employees better (he'll take all the good employees and undermine his competitors on service) and presto, he's got the market share.

I sense a contradiction there. Unless you're saying with a straight face that retail companies(especially no-union companies) strive to pay more for employees, or that businessmen are idiots.

I think GP was saying: 1) Pay the manager $53k instead of $63k, saving $10k. 2) Pay the each cashiers $1/hr more (~$4k/yr more total). 3) Profit $6k more than the other store. 4) By virtue of paying more, you can hire the best of the worst for just $1/hr more than minimum wage. Therefore his store's line movers a little faster and outcompetes the other store. Capitalism, as opposed to merchantalism or corporatism, returns and there is a net gain to the new store and the public at large, greater than the loss oto the old store.

Re:Company or store policy?

[sahonen]

Much better, you're up to 7/10, and actually worth replying to.

Also, the GP didn't say how much the warranty cost.

I don't remember exactly, but far more than simply buying a new mouse when the old one fails, especially considering we're talking about devices with no moving parts here. I've never had an optical mouse fail on me under normal use. Also, depending on how you value your time, spending the hour or so digging up the receipt and waiting on the phone, going through whatever procedures they require for you to get your replacement... It's simply not worth spending that kind of time on something you can pay for out of pocket by just working for 15 minutes.

If it weren't for competitive strategies such as that we'd all still be paying $50 per mouse like we were 10 - 15 years ago.

Yeah, advances in miniaturization and manufacturing techniques have totally had nothing to do with that. I suppose you think the reason I've got more computing power for a third of the cost in my iPod Touch than my desktop machine had 15 years ago is because Apple sells warranties too!

Insinuating that people are somehow idiots who can't think for themselves, and that companies prey on them is WAY more insulting.

I suggest you take a hypnosis class some time, you'll learn that even your average person is fairly suggestible. On the low end of the bell curve there are people you can sell *anything* to. There's enough weak-willed people out there that a good panhandler can live in a house.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Sir Holo]

Keep that in mind the next time you visit a drug or grocery store with 30 people in line being served by only 2 cashiers.

Making people stand in line increases sales of impulse items. The line is there by design.

Re:Company or store policy?

[atol angengea]

Because labour is an operational cost, just like leasing office space, buying equipment and paying for advertising etc.

True.

EVERYONE, whether you're a business owner or not, always wants to sell high and buy low.That's not greed. It's common sense.

Nope. Still greed.

However, what people really don't get about it is that by keeping operational costs down, the prices get kept down. So while people's wages may be lower, their costs of living is also lower. Raise the wages, raise the prices.

The rate of wage appreciation/depreciation and the cost of living don't go hand-in-hand.

I guess I don't disagree with you in principle, but both managers and employees are working as surrogates for those in charge of hiring/firing managers, etc. This is what makes scripted "suggestions" for warranties/cartridges/toner, etc. so onerous. With the push, a "friendly" shopping ambiance suddenly turns into Disney World right before the eyes of the consumer. This does not even begin to address the fact that, as the quantity of productive labor expended is absorbed in - let's say - the synthesis of a commodity in a grocery store or pharmacy, the employees should be entitled to at least as much of a salary as the managers, no? They have, after all, performed the work of stocking shelves, returning stubborn shopping carts, or counting pills. All in all, both working AND shopping at an Office Max are degrading activities: degradation painted with a scripted smile and reinforced by the prowling eyes of secret shoppers. As has been said before: stay away.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Canberra Bob]

"My store manager was paid 63K a year"

Umm, yes, and...?

You must be a student or just starting out, no?

Re:Company or store policy?

[mkiwi]

I worked at CompUSA, and our management was constantly trying to get us to sign people up with *AOL*. The whole thing was so ridiculous that even the department managers didn't fire us for lack of sales.

The people who made a lot of money on commissions were the hardware guys selling compete systems. I never got to see a big benefit from selling the plans, other than I got to keep my job.

Re:Company or store policy?

[tkrotchko]

>>EVERYONE, whether you're a business owner or not, always wants to sell high and buy low.That's not greed. It's common sense.

>Nope. Still greed.

Not really. If you're buying a used car from a guy, and he's asking for $5K, and book value is $4K is he being greedy?

What if you offer him $3K? Are you being greedy?

I think the answer to that is no. It's not immoral to sell things for as much as you can, nor is it immoral to buy things for as low as you can. Even communists do that. Nobody gives away stuff to be a nice guy. Nobody pays too much because they feel it's "the right thing to do". That applies to cars, widgets or labor. It's all a commodity.

Re:Company or store policy?

[sgt_doom]

Dood, you sound like an ethical Democratic socialist? Instead of those Socialist Plutocrats that don't want any of the rest of us to enjoy their "trickle down" socialism. Why haven't they changed the name of Wall Street to Dole Street (as in On-The-Dole Street, as that is what they are)?

[Bloomberg files FOIA against Federal Reserve about use of $2.2 trillion -- inquiring minds wonder why would anyone think of filing an FOIA against a private concern - it is only legal against federal agencies, you Bloomberg BSers!!!]

Re:Company or store policy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Another former associate here. Same deal. When I was there, the big deal was to sell the custom computers from the kiosk, the configure-to-order systems. Which drove me absolutely farking batty, because the CTO systems weren't any better than the shelf systems, except that you could tweak the setup some.

People didn't come into our store to buy CTO systems. If they wanted a mail order computer, they could mail order it themselves. They came into the store to buy a system off the shelf, one that they could have *right now*. And I had a coworker that would lie about the advantages of the CTO systems to make the sale, so he was the manager's golden boy. Bastiges, all of them.

Re:Company or store policy?

[atol angengea]

OK - I think I see where you're coming from. Cross out 'greedy' and put in 'exploitative.' The only possible way a commodity can be sold above its labor-value is if the productivity of labor is such that more widgets, let's say, can be produced in an hour. The profit from the increase in widgets (accompanied only very rarely by a decrease in price of widgets) is siphoned off the top and used to buy more widget-machines to produce even more widgets to receive in turn even more capital. But the people actually assembling the widgets receive none of the runoff for the increase in the productivity of their labor. I'm not talking about the ethics of "buying low" and "selling high", nor paying more or less because it's "the right thing to do" - macro-economically buying and selling dear all balance in the end. I'd just rather see it balance a little fairer.

Re:Company or store policy?

[paulgrant]

thats nice in theory but....

managers get paid more 'cause we're the one's who a)give a shit about performance and b)capable of dealing with the unexpected crap that arises during the course of business.
the lack of business sense (or worse, common sense) is so appalling at the minimum wage level I'ld rather just automate rather than deal with the stupidity.

and in case u want (dis)proof ;) witness all those lovely mining/meatprocessing plants with safety records from the 1800's paying crap wages.... occasionally a crappy job
is better than no job.

Re:Company or store policy?

[hydro123456]

Sounds like one of those things that gets passed from manager to manager to flunky, but is never put in writing. When I worked in the Geek Squad this really slimy guy from the corporate office would stop in every now and then, and one time he actually told us to make up words like "flux capacitor" to confuse customers and make them think they need our services.

Re:Company or store policy?

[fractoid]

5) The manager quits because you just cut his pay by $10k a year and the shop down the road is willing to pay him $65k because he spun them a story of how profits are up $6k over last year.

Re:Company or store policy?

[syousef]

So if the owners are paying the managers ridiculously large wages while the people actually doing the "real work" are getting cheated then the entrepreneur will not be in business very long.

Is that why CEOs are paid so many million whether or not the company is failing? Everything up until that paragraph was BS, but that really clinched it.

Here in Australia we have a scandal going on where an iconic Australian clothing company called Pacific Brands is firing thousands of local staff to move their operations offshore. Anyone that quits early loses their redundancy payouts. Meanwhile the CEO doubled her salary. This is possible because company executives have all the power and are able to decide where to make cuts first. Meanwhile they also pat each other on the back and increase their own wages if company performance improves as a result. Their money doesn't come from the money fairy. The employees and the share holders all lose out as the company is sold out from under them.

Re:Company or store policy?

[tkrotchko]

I think I see where the issue lies. Labor is a commodity at a macro level, but when you actually see some poor guy working twelve hour days for minimum wage trying to raise a family, it strikes everyone as basically unfair that the guy at the top reaps the benefits of the guys labor.

Here's the thing. The world is a very harsh place. To make it in this world, you've got to equip yourself with skills that people will pay a lot for. And unfortunately, choices made at an early age tend to influence what you end up as later in life. The reality is that some people choose wisely in terms of career paths. The reality is that some people are really smart and work hard/smart to make themselves more valuable. And of course, another reality is that some people are just plain lucky.

I don't think there's a fix for these types of issues. I think we have to accept at a certain level that people will do whatever it takes to earn a buck and plan accordingly.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Falconhell]

I believe a sock with a 3.5" hard drive in it is a bit more effective.....and it has geek cred!

Re:Company or store policy?

[Alpha830RulZ]

Do you call paying the manager $63K/yr a ridiculously high wage? I call that pretty low pay, for a guy who probably works a buttload of hours, has a large staff with a lot of turnover to manage, and who is probably under a lot of pressure to meet sales targets despite having to pay shit wages. I've managed retail outlets, it's a thankless, mind wearing job.

Whether /.rs prefer to believe it or not, managing is hard, too.

Retail pays shit, because the skill requirements are low, the supply of available help is high, and the competitive pressures on the businesses are extreme.

Re:Company or store policy?

[dcollins]

Nobody gives away stuff to be a nice guy.

Bullshit. Sometimes I really wonder what circles you people travel in.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

So if the owners are paying the managers ridiculously large wages while the people actually doing the "real work" are getting cheated then the entrepreneur will not be in business very long.

Have you paid any attention to economic news over the past year or so? At all?

Re:Company or store policy?

[ultranova]

But do you know WHY they pay their employees so little ? Because people are willing to take the jobs at those wages.

Given a surplus of labour which has existed since the start of the Industrial Age, people are willing to work for any wage, since each and every penny pushes starvation a little further down the road. That's why minimum wage laws exist in the first place.

Do you know why the employer wants to pay as little for labour as possible ? Because labour is an operational cost, just like leasing office space, buying equipment and paying for advertising etc. EVERYONE, whether you're a business owner or not, always wants to sell high and buy low. That's not greed. It's common sense.

So basically, paying as small wages as possible is a common-sense way of minimizing wage costs; in other words, it's motivated by greed.

Raise the wages, raise the prices. We all make more money but not really because everything costs more.

Actually, no, we wouldn't all make more money. The people making minimum wage would make more money. Your buying power would drop a little, theirs would rise a lot, leading to a more egalitarian society.

Re:Company or store policy?

[MistrBlank]

It's funny. A few years ago I worked for Gamestop who sold the plans. We were pushed for replacement plans, reserves on games and pushed to make subscription sales.

Fortunately our sales manager did not make us do anything letting us handle it and told us to try to make them where we could. We often hit the target but not all the time. Our district manager didn't like that. However in our ability to read customers we had the largest repeat customer base in the region. We boasted the largest sales numbers and the least shrinkage in the area.

After my store manager left (because they wouldn't promote him), I left. Then the store turned into a shithole and eventually closed because the new manager was a corporate kiss ass and people (myself included) stopped shopping there.

Kind of funny how that works. Start forcing crap on your customers and they are going to feel uncomfortable coming into the store and eventually find somewhere where they aren't being asked to buy into every crap deal the store has to offer. It also gives you an idea of what is wrong with this country today, management. There are too many managers, there are too many of them that are "management trained" instead of trained through experience. Hell I have 3 bosses in my current job, NONE of them have the technical experience with what I do and look at me like I'm foreign when I try to explain things in even the most layman terms. Yet they are where they are because they have a degree that says they know how to manage people. They couldn't manage someone out of a paper bag and yet they get paid more than me.

Re:Company or store policy?

[MistrBlank]

"So basically, paying as small wages as possible is a common-sense way of minimizing wage costs; in other words, it's motivated by greed."

Yep, managers who are looking to line their pockets, so they try to pay the "plebs" as little as they can to get things done.

This society is about personal profit, not sharing the greater good. That's a problem. It's why we are where we are economically and it's why the welfare system in place doesn't work either.

Re:Company or store policy?

[MistrBlank]

Actually his store manager was probably the least talented individual in the store. He probably did nothing more than organize a schedule each week for his workers to come in, yet earned 63K for that.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Leafheart]

There's enough weak-willed people out there that a good panhandler can live in a house.

Just a quote in here, a local newspaper where I live (O Globo) once did a survey on how much in general a panhandler, asking for money for about 9 hours a day, was getting in a month. It ammounted to almost 1000 dollars. After I got out of college, my pay, as a Computer Scientist Bachelor was 1100 dollars. Working the same 9 hours.

Re:Company or store policy?

[radish]

You seem to think that firing the local staff and offshoring means the company is "failing". I don't see why. The CEOs job is to maximise shareholder value - to get the best return on their investment. I don't know any more than you've told me about this case but if she's figured out she can improve profits by lowering costs, then she's doing her job and deserves the payrise.

Meanwhile they also pat each other on the back and increase their own wages if company performance improves as a result. Their money doesn't come from the money fairy. The employees and the share holders all lose out as the company is sold out from under them

This makes no sense whatsoever. If company performance improves then the CEO is doing well and the shareholders win. How on earth are shareholders losing in this scenario? The company can't be "sold our from under them" - they own the company! You clearly have a poor grasp of economics.

Re:Company or store policy?

[jbrandv]

When I approach the cashiers and there are 30 people in line with only two cashiers the store personnel get to put all the stuff in my basket back on the shelves because I will leave it there and walk out of the store. I occasionally point it out to the store manager if he/she is available. (They never seem to care though. Sigh.)

Re:Company or store policy?

[bitchzilla]

Same applies to Staples. I worked there for a few years as a manager and the number of service plans the employees sold was part of the review process. If you couldnt sell the plan's you didnt go far. As a manager if your team didnt sell them you were OUT! They say the company actually loses money when the cheap laptops go out without the plan. Also there is always somebody whos computer breaks at 13 months and expects the store to replace it free of course if they had the plan they would no plan no replacement.

Re:Company or store policy?

[bitchzilla]

Plus they have to listen to bs story about why lazyass cant make it to work. Ohh and lets not forget upset customers yelling at you! The whole time the DM wants to know why turnover is an issue.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Theoboley]

Sadly, It takes that piece of paper for a wage increase. I'm in the same boat.

Re:Company or store policy?

[vertinox]

That's not greed. It's common sense. However, what people really don't get about it is that by keeping operational costs down, the prices get kept down. So while people's wages may be lower, their costs of living is also lower. Raise the wages, raise the prices. We all make more money but not really because everything costs more.

But what you just described is a deflationary economy.

And if you haven't been paying attention, both the Great Depression and the current crisis were caused by deflation.

And we've had this arguments on other stories... Because people paid less, they buy less things, which leads to the price of products being lower, which means the cost of raw resources gets lower? Which means a good thing? Right?

WRONG

Because the factories already have an inventory of raw resources and the warehouses already have an inventory of product, which means either they keep making products at a loss or lay off workers.

Given the choice, they'll lay off the workers.

Which leads to people who aren't buying anything and hording cash resulting in an increase of deflation because money is going anywhere and the economy shuts down.

Like it or not, inflation and growth must always occur for a functional economy. Hyperinflation and stagnation is another end of the spectrum that we do not want, but usually deflation (aka the great depression) is the ultimate in the "do not want".

Re:Company or store policy?

[MightyMartian]

I loathe Staples. They're turning into the new Circuit City. I went in there to buy a PS/2-to-USB keyboard/mouse adapter for my old KVM switch, and they wanted something like $30. The small computer store a few blocks away was selling them for about $15, which about the same as I saw online at a few places. Their staff are largely morons who probably should be flipping burgers, and if I went in there to be a mid-range power bar with decent surge protection, and it cost about $30 they tried to hustle me with a bloody extended warranty. The really sad part is that it's putting the old stationary store that had been around for about 40 years out of business, and it's not as if they're even that cheap.

Pretty much all my major purchases now are online. I can usually get really good deals out of Dell by telling my rep the fantabulous system I saw on NCIX. All the people I've dealt with online are getting so desperate I get at least one email from each every couple of days with new low prices. So screw the big box stores. I'm hoping most will be dead in the water soon. If there's one upside to the current economic crisis, it's that most of these guys will probably be shutdown, outcompeted by online stores and Walmart (which now, at least at my store, sells extended warranties, JEEZUS CHHRIIIISTTT!!!!).

Re:Company or store policy?

[spsheridan]

This is a classic short term profit / long term loss strategy. Fire the local workers. Depress the local economy. Fewer locals can buy your product. Your sales go down. Your competitors sales go down. THey fire people. Economy continues to decline, more people are fired, and sales continue to plummet.

Long term companies thrive when the local consumers are well paid. No one can go for a long term strategy though because shareholder value is only measured in next quarters dividend / share price and not the expected value in 5 years.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

nah, sharp edges tear the sock and leave marks. Go with the tried and true soap in a pillowcase.

Re:Company or store policy?

[Skuld-Chan]

That happened to me - I asked the guy what could possibly posses me to buy a protection plan to replace a 15$ ms mouse that had a 3 year warranty from the manufacturer. Luckily he just shut up.

Re:Company or store policy?

[sabt-pestnu]

Anyone that quits early loses their redundancy payouts.

You shouldn't think that the software industry is immune to this, or that it is unique to Australia.

I'd heard fairly recently (and perhaps even on slashdot) of a company setting up to outsource development, that retained some of their developers specifically to train the offshore outsourcer replacements. And like your Pacific Brands, if you didn't take that deal, you were out right then.

Once a company decides to take your job and move it elsewhere, your only remaining value to the company is in what you know that they can hoover out of you. And your only options are: play along, walk, or try to convince or force the company to change its mind. And in a case where there are no replacement workers to heckle (because the manufacturing has gone elsewhere), your best places to go are the press and the government.

Re:Company or store policy?

[VortexCortex]

I used to work for Office Depot and I completely agree with Aladrin.

Once a week we would have a mandatory sales meeting where the Manager went over the "attachment" rates.

For instance: A printer or fax machine sale was to also include ink, paper, a warranty, and a USB cable; A computer sale was to include a monitor, a warranty, and a printer; A camera sale was to include memory, camera case, and a warranty; Desk sales were to include a chair, a floor mat, and a warranty; A chair sale was to include a warranty and a chair mat; A paper shredder sale was to include a warranty and shredder lubricant.

If one additional item was missing from a sale the attachment rate went down.

Salespersons who did not make a 70% attachment rate were demoted or fired. Employees were "made example of" so that we would know exactly how expendable we were.

My manager instructed me to sell new USB cables to customers who purchased printers even if they were replacing a printer that had a USB interface by lying:
"USB 1 cables will not work on a USB 2 printer"

I was also instructed to sell additional ink for printers by saying, "Trial ink cartridges come with the printer, but they will only last for a few days once installed"

Often times a set of replacement ink would cost as much or more than the new printer.

We were pressured to push warranties on the customers because they were considered "Pure Profit".

If a customer was tech-savvy enough to know they didn't need the attachment items we routinely told them that the items they wanted weren't in stock.

I eventually learned that Office Depot store managers get their bonuses based on the attachment rate, not sales figures.

My stay at Office Depot was short because I could not stand the sleazy sales practices that were enforced there.

Re:Company or store policy?

[syousef]

You seem to think that firing the local staff and offshoring means the company is "failing".

I didn't say Pacific Brands was failing. I said CEOs get large payouts regardless of whether or not the company is failing. Get some comprehension skills.

In this case the CEO is doing s completely different thing wrong. They're burning good will and burning the value of the brand, which are the only thing that distinguishes the company from other clothing retailers. Regardless of offshoring the actual manufacture I doubt the company's going to remain profitable in the long term competing with companies run entirely in Asia. Oh and there's also that little thing about sweatshop labour and ethics.

The CEOs job is to maximise shareholder value - to get the best return on their investment.

Not at the expense of everything else. In case you haven't noticed focus on short term profits at the expense of assets, ethics and everything else doesn't work and has led to a global financial meltdown. One job the CEO has is to keep the company profitable, but that doesn't mean they get to neglect everything else with no consequences.

I don't know any more than you've told me about this case but if she's figured out she can improve profits by lowering costs, then she's doing her job and deserves the payrise.

Well I hope you like working for peanuts, because I'm willing to bet no matter what you do, someone else can do it for cheaper. That's the direct result of your logic: Everyone gets paid barely enough to subsist as they are constantly undercut. You're also neglecting the fact that if everyone is fired and replaced by the cheapest possible labour there's no one left to buy the product. What use is it being able to make t-shirts for $3 instead of $5 if the working wage for your target market is $5 a month?

If company performance improves then the CEO is doing well and the shareholders win. How on earth are shareholders losing in this scenario? The company can't be "sold our from under them" - they own the company! You clearly have a poor grasp of economics.

It's fun slinging insults isn't it? You clearly are an abrasive fool who has no comprehension skills.

Please read the above. Try to comprehend it. When you fail, try again. Your suposedly superior grasp of economics is nothing more than a rant about basic unfettered capitalism, which doesn't bloody work.

Re:Company or store policy?

[cartermb]

Actually, the entire economic system of barter and trade is based on greed. If I weren't greedy and I had a fish, I would say to you, "Here, take my fish please." Not that it is all bad. Darwinism (for lack of a better term) would say that greed is a self-preservation mechanism - if I need the fish to survive, I should keep it because it is in my own best interest. Christianity, on the other hand (in its purest form) - the religion (among others)that teaches that greed is bad - would just allow me to give it all away and then let the unseen hand take care of me, representing pure lack of greed.

Appalled?

[phantomfive]

Wow, if you get appalled over scripts for cashiers, wait until you find out about telemarketers, what THEY have. I fear the day you learn about politician's speech writers. Oh, and did you know? Those bills that get passed through congress, often the congresspeople DON'T EVEN READ THEM.

OK I'll stop now to keep your rage meter from going overboard.

(This message brought to you from the 'please channel your anger towards things that actually matter dept').

Man, I must be feeling bitter today.

Re:Appalled?

[MrMista_B]

Alright, so you just roll over and take it?

People like you who /aren't/ appalled by this sort of bullshit, is why it's so successful.

So next time, take responsibility for yourself, don't just dully sigh and go 'oh, I guess this is how it is', but actually /stand up for yourself/ and say no.

Just because people like you don't get appalled by this sort of stuff, doesn't mean that those who /do/ are being silly. Rather, it's people like you who just accept it, who are the sort of people the companies that do this rely on.

Re:Appalled?

[Canberra Bob]

Appalled because employees follow scripts? Who woulda thunk it?

Now don't get me started on safety training! The hide of those companies to make employees follow set procedures!!!

Re:Appalled?

[tkrotchko]

"Alright, so you just roll over and take it?"

No. You *stop shopping there*. Office Depot isn't the only place to buy computers, it's probably not even the best. If people didn't give them money, they wouldn't sell overpriced service plans.

If Office Depot's market is people who are technically inept who fall for dumb marketing, and they can make a profit, good for them!

But if you walk in buy a computer for $400 and then walk out with a $200 service plan, you can't blame Office Depot for trying. You can primarily blame yourself for being an uninformed consumer.

Re:Appalled?

[atraintocry]

The problem with that argument is you can use it all the time, so it becomes essentially meaningless. It's not that you're wrong, it's more of a case of "so what?" The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Re:Appalled?

[phantomfive]

but actually /stand up for yourself/ and say no.

Yes, that's exactly it, I go in, and if they offer me a service plan, I say no. If they offer me a lot of times, I say no a lot of times. Then I pay, and leave. I got what I want, I am happy. If that makes you upset, you probably have troubles navigating every day life without getting upset. Do you get annoyed when people cut you off on the road? Or even pass you on the freeway?

Re:Appalled?

[ultranova]

But if you walk in buy a computer for $400 and then walk out with a $200 service plan, you can't blame Office Depot for trying. You can primarily blame yourself for being an uninformed consumer.

And when you get mugged, you can't blame the mugger for mugging. You can primarily blame yourself for not learning karate.

While victims should certainly learn to take care of themselves, their failure to do so doesn't excuse anyone who takes advantage of their weakness. Scum is scum and a moron is a moron, and one party being one doesn't mean that the other couldn't be the other. And someone who takes advantage of some moron's gullibility to fool him out of $200 is a scum.

Re:Appalled?

[tkrotchko]

Well, that's not even a close analogy. The merchant is asking you to give them money. They're not threatening you in any way. They simply say "Okay, you gave us some money, now give us some more". By contrast a mugger threatens you with harm. I don't see where the situations are in any way analogous to each other.

Re:Appalled?

[ultranova]

Well, that's not even a close analogy. The merchant is asking you to give them money. They're not threatening you in any way. They simply say "Okay, you gave us some money, now give us some more". By contrast a mugger threatens you with harm. I don't see where the situations are in any way analogous to each other.

A mugger uses a superior attribute of his - his brawn - to take something of yours. A dishonest "merchant" uses a superior attribute of his - his salesmanship - to take something of yours. Both are examples of an amoral scum taking advantage of the weak, making the situations analogous and, in fact, nearly identical.

the slide shown

[bugs2squash]

did not look that bad to me. It seemed to stick to the facts. They are supposed to make money

Re:the slide shown

[Mprx]

Not at all. The true reason the salesperson recommends the extended warranty is because they get commission. The reason given in the script is an unrelated fact, so by following the script the salesperson is lying.

Re:the slide shown

[vux984]

Not at all. The true reason the salesperson recommends the extended warranty is because they get commission. The reason given in the script is an unrelated fact, so by following the script the salesperson is lying.

No. By following the script the sales person is giving you a true reason why you might want to buy it. It doesn't happen to be the reason he wants to sell it to you, but what has that got to do with anything?

The true reason the store exists at all is to extract money from customers. So if I walk in an ask to buy a single pen, and an employee suggests buying the 3 pack for twice the price 'because you get 2 for the price of 1' he isn't lying to me. Its the truth, and perhaps even a good reason to buy the 3 pack.

The fact that he makes more money from the sale this way is the reason he suggested it, but that doesn't make the rest of the conversation a lie.

Re:the slide shown

[Mprx]

From dictionary.com:

recommend

1. to present as worthy of confidence, acceptance, use, etc.; commend; mention favorably: to recommend an applicant for a job; to recommend a book.
2. to represent or urge as advisable or expedient: to recommend caution.
3. to advise, as an alternative; suggest (a choice, course of action, etc.) as appropriate, beneficial, or the like: He recommended the blue-plate special. The doctor recommended special exercises for her.
4. to make desirable or attractive: a plan that has very little to recommend it.

Common usage of "recommend" implies a benefit to the person being recommended to. In your example the salesperson can reasonably assume this to be true, as many people want more than one pen for cheap, but in the case of extended warranties the salesperson knows it is very unlikely to be beneficial to the customer. The intention is to trick the customer into buying something they don't need, so this is not using "recommend" as in common English usage.

Re:the slide shown

[vux984]

Common usage of "recommend" implies a benefit to the person being recommended to. Wow. No. Common usage of "recommend" is precisely what the definition said: to present as worthy of confidence, acceptance, use, etc to represent or urge as advisable or expedient The person making the 'recommendation' presents it as worthy or represents it as advisable. That doesn't imply that it actually is, nor that the person making the recommendation believes it. In your example the salesperson can reasonably assume this to be true, as many people want more than one pen for cheap, but in the case of extended warranties the salesperson knows it is very unlikely to be beneficial to the customer. Why should it matter what the sales person **assumes** to be true about how useful something will be to you. As long as they don't actually deceive you they are in the clear here. It is ultimately up to us to decide whether something is useful to us, or whether it is worth a given price. Otherwise, who will you entrust to decide this? The government? Make the retailer accountable so that they can only sell us things we need? Get real. The intention is to trick the customer into buying something they don't need, The intention is to convince the customer. You can't say trick unless there is deception. And there is nothing wrong with convincing people to buy something they don't need or even want. The entire contents of most stores is filled with stuff we don't need, and advertising and sales reps to convince us we do. Our entire system works like this. If you don't like it fine, but you can't single out office depot here.

Re:the slide shown

[Mprx]

If somebody presents something as worthwhile when they do not believe it to be worthwhile they are lying. With the pens it is a reasonable assumption that 3 for the price of 2 is worthwhile. With the extended warranties it is not a reasonable assumption, as the only way it could be economically viable is if the user's time is extraordinarily valuable, in which case they are highly unlikely to be using products from Office Depot. Having unnecessary items on the shelves is not the same thing because nobody is actively trying to deceive people into buying them.

Re:the slide shown

[RattFink]

If somebody presents something as worthwhile when they do not believe it to be worthwhile they are lying.

No, it's only lying when they believe that it's not worthwhile to that person. The only way they can know that without an intimate knowledge of the person is if they ask the person if they want it.

Nothing new

[Slumdog]

America is the land of opportunity and innovation in science and business. All Office Depot has done is work out an innovative way to generate extra profit for their company. I'm sure they consulted their legal department to find out if federal and state laws allow this innovative method of training salesman to follow a sales flowchart.

There ought to be a patent on this technique! Infact, the only hurdle is used-car salesmen who might sue claiming prior art (but thats a minor inconvenience)

Re:Nothing new

[Gordonjcp]

the only hurdle is used-car salesmen who might sue claiming prior art

I don't know why people slag off used-car salesmen. I've bought a lot of cars from used-car salesmen, and paid a price commensurate with the vehicle I was getting. Cheapest car was the absolutely immaculate Volvo 340 for £30 ("Get it off the lot before someone sees it, jeez, just get it out of here") that had to be towed away and repaired in the next street ;-) There's a refreshing honesty in "Warranty? Yes, it'll get at least as far as the gate, then it's all your problem. Lose the VAT for cash? Certainly, sir..."

Re:Nothing new

[icannotthinkofaname]

I don't know why people slag off used-car salesmen.

...um...wasn't that the car analogy for this thread? Seemed like it from where I was standing.

Am I the only one ...

[Anonymous Coward]

that read "How Office Depot Pushes..." as "Home Depot Pushes..." and wondered why you'd want a service plan for a screwdriver and a sheet of plywood?

Depot dumbness

[pilgrim23]

I bought a keyboard yesterday. I was asked if I wanted a warranty. I said "On a keyboard?" with a sardonic sound. It went right over her head. Then she put a tape over the edge of the box "Whats that?" I asked "our return policy" she said. "So if I break the tape I cannot return it? You do realize I need to open the box." " I'm sorry sir, that is the policy" she smartly replied. I left with my wallet, but not wits intact...

Re:Depot dumbness

[Anonymous Coward]

In the UK it helps if you know the trading laws. That won't prevent a cashier calling in help from the manager to try and BS you, but they do tend to recognise someone who knows what he's talking about.

Talking of laws, there is also a way to reverse the situation and take advantage of a shop. In the UK, credit agreements have a legal 30 day "change your mind" cooling off period, and if you return the goods (in decent state, of course), the shop has to roll back the credit as if it never happened (read: no charges apply). This means you could get yourself a free 30 day loan of a decent camera for whatever event you're trying to shoot, just make sure you buy it on credit - even if you have the cash..

Re:Depot dumbness

[garett_spencley]

Meanwhile everyone has a higher cost of living because stores need to account for the higher costs of complying with such regulations (being out perfectly good inventory that comes back damaged, having to pay more for labour to deal with accepting returns and the turn-around etc.) which goes straight on to the prices.

If the majority thinks that the cost is worth it, then it doesn't matter. They're getting something for it. People just need to realize that those types of regulations don't purely help consumers and hurt businesses. They have a cost associated that everyone has to bear.

On the flip side, without those regulations you can always turn around and resell a product that you realize that you don't want. You might still take a loss, but then, you went out and bought a product you didn't really want. Personally I'd rather people who buy products that they don't want take the loss instead of everyone.

Re:Depot dumbness

[intheshelter]

While your point is technically true I can't help but wonder where this line of reasoning ends? I know that most stores probably have to charge more because of those damn regulations that prevent them from shooting you when you enter the store, skinning your carcass and selling it for dog food, taking your credit cards and charging them to the max, and from pimping your wife. But then again maybe it's a good thing we have those regulations, since without those regulations we'd probably pay FAR more when stores collude with other stores to price-fix items, pulled bait and switch schemes, lie to their customers, etc.

I find it odd that you somehow equate regulations designed to prevent fraud against consumers as something that is artificially raising prices, even in the face of evidence that corporate management creates policies designed to encourage sales staff to sell high profit, unneeded extended warranties. Don't those unnecessary sales raise prices to the customer too?

Personally I'll take some decent regulation and a minor increase of cost if it helps avoid fraud and un-checked greed by corporations who have the ability to hide behind expensive lawyers. Look at what is going on in the financial sector right now. How much extra is everyone paying (or have they outright LOST) due to lack of enforced regulations and oversight, which allowed them to outright lie to their investors and ruin them, while earning million dollar bonuses for running their company and investors life savings into the ground? I think the cost of a lack of regulation, oversight, and enforcement is turning out to be MUCH higher.

Re:Depot dumbness

[cstdenis]

The cost of a product is the highest price that the largest number of people are willing to pay for it.

What is costs to manufacture/sell has nothing to do with it beyond is needing to be less than the price above.

Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[Doug52392]

About a year ago, I walked into a local Best Buy, and was shocked, appalled, angry, but not surprised, to see anti-filesharing propaganda set up throughout the store.

I counted over 25 fliers hanging on walls, telling people "DOWNLOADING IS A CRIME!", and other propaganda. The most elaborate display they set up was in the MP3 Players section of the store. They mounted two flashing strobe lights on top of a display, designed to look like a police car's flashing lights. They then placed a large sign stating that "DOWNLOADING IS A CRIME. DON'T GO TO JAIL, DON'T DOWNLOAD".

So I asked one of the employees about the signs. They said it was an order by their upper management (as in, from their corporate offices). I then asked if they believed that downloading music is a criminal offense that can result in arrest, as they clearly try to say. They did not know. Some of them said "Yes", while others didn't answer the question.

Needless to say, I guess people complained, because the signs were gone after a while...

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[MrEricSir]

"Sir, I saw you put those CDs in your pants. Are you stealing them?"
"Yes, well I wasn't going to download these, but then I saw your sign..."

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[MrEricSir]

-wasn't
+was

Guess I should have bought an extended warranty on my original post.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[PCM2]

Needless to say, I guess people complained, because the signs were gone after a while...

Actually, I think it's more likely that the [RI|MP]AA paid to advertise at Best Buy, the same way that technology companies can buy end-of-aisle display placement. When the money ran out, the ads came down.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[Locklin]

Funny... I bought a DVD player from BestBuy last boxing day. The employee told me he has the same model and it played every DivX file he has downloaded.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[dfsmith]

They probably came down because of those nice, decent folks at iTunes or Amazon downloads. You know: the ones with lawyers.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[PunditGuy]

Damn it! Aunt Mabel bought me this iTunes card, but since downloading is a crime...

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[arekusu_ou]

Sir, you didn't purchase any music CDs today, so I must believe you have stolen CDs. Please strip naked and prepare for a cavity search. On another note, remember to have your handy RIAA Support badge worn for a low low purchase price of $100 to avoid being hassled on the way out of our store.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[shutdown -p now]

I hope they answered "yes", because it is.

"Downloading music" is certainly not a crime. Violating someone's copyright is, but it's not something that's inherent in downloading. For example, you can download these songs absolutely legally, and there are plenty more.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[Spookticus]

She probably spent way to much on that iTunes gift card. You should get her over to taobao , I hear they have them pretty cheap in china.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[IKnwThePiecesFt]

As a Best Buy employee I'll say that was not a company wide initiative. It's more likely by "upper management" they meant the GM of their store or at best District staff.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[dedazo]

Violating someone's copyright is

Yes... because everybody knows that the vast majority of material on P2P networks is just good old public domain music, videos, software and books.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[shutdown -p now]

Yes... because everybody knows that the vast majority of material on P2P networks is just good old public domain music, videos, software and books.

There was no mention of P2P in your original post, either. You just said, "downloading music is illegal", which is obviously a wrong statement. If you want to be taken seriously, please be careful with words.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[dedazo]

You just said, "downloading music is illegal", which is obviously a wrong statement.

The semantic gyrations and disingenuous arguments used by some people when discussing this issue never cease to amaze me. No, it's not illegal to download an MP3 from Magnatune. But you and the OP know exactly what I was talking about.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[shutdown -p now]

The semantic gyrations and disingenuous arguments used by some people when discussing this issue never cease to amaze me. No, it's not illegal to download an MP3 from Magnatune. But you and the OP know exactly what I was talking about.

Of course I do. You might want to notice that I'm not spouting "copyright is evil and should be abolished" rhetoric.

However, it is always good to be precise when trying to get a point across. If you remember, this thread started with a mention of a sign in Best Buy that says "DOWNLOADING IS A CRIME". Note that it doesn't even mention music! Personally, I think that this is disinformation at its worst - it's really no better than saying "SMOKING IS A CRIME" when you actually mean "smoking cannabis". This sort of thing - knowingly and deliberately disseminating obviously incorrect information about laws of the country for your own gain - should be considered fraud, and treated as such.

Re:Best Buy tried this as well to "fight" piracy.

[dedazo]

In all that we definitely agree.

The Script..

[$1uck]

"This _____ is eligible for our replacement plan. I recommend it because if the product fails after the manufacturer's warranty, it will be replaced with an Office Depot Merchandise card for the full price you are paying today."
If this shocks, amazes, or angers you. Get a fucking life. How is this news at all? If they want to lose a sale b/c they're not selling a protection plan, well I would think they are just shooting themselves in the foot.

Re:The Script..

[garett_spencley]

Also, while people might not like the sales pitch, by selling protection plans the company is able to lower the prices of it's products to compete. It's competitors follow suit to remain competitive and, while we might have to listen to a slightly annoying 2 second sales pitch, we ALL pay less for hardware as a result.

Re:The Script..

[Exawatt]

That's what we do at Staples with the office chairs. If we don't carry it and can't order it, we'll just give you the money back on a cash card. b We make a killing off furniture anyway, so you can replace that chair five times and we're still making a profit.

Re:The Script..

[michrech]

You appear to have misread the statement. It says you will receive a store "gift/credit card" for the amount you are paying for whatever item you're protecting. At that point, you can buy whatever current thing replaces the thing that you had to return, or buy something else.

That still doesn't mean I'd buy one of those plans. Of course, I build my own computers, so I'd never have to worry about that anyway. Newegg never hassles me if I tell it I don't want the plan they offer on each thing I've ever purchased, and that's exactly the way these B&M stores should handle it.

Whoa? Full purchase price? Not a replacement item? Not after they try to get it repaired? That actually might be worth doing...

My problem with those plans is that they always give you the run around when you try to make them honor them. "They don't make this anymore," or "we don't have stock on this item," or whatever lame excuse they give always slows things down. "That's not my problem" doesn't seem to register with them until I've said it a half dozen times.

Reminds me of OMAX..

[mackinaw_apx]

I used to work for Office Max for over a year. These exact same employee "policies" were in place there too.. though our plans were called "Max Advantage". We'd be told to only help customers on the floor that were looking at or thinking of purchasing items that carried a service plan... and got "write ups" if we didn't sell X amt. of plans per month. And since the day I quit, I haven't worked retail again...

Re:Reminds me of OMAX..

[Itninja]

I started working for Office Max when they were still called Biz Mart. Then it was called 'Biz Advantage' and the manager would give daily pep talks over the intercom before we opened reminding us that Biz Advantage was 'pure profit'. They had contests to see who would sell the most, but they never wrote anyone up for not selling them. But that was back in the early 1990's so things may have gotten more cut throat since then. I too swore off retail after my experience in the office supply mega store industry. I went into IT and never looked back.

Re:Reminds me of OMAX..

[vilain]

I bought a bunch of _paper_ and office supplies, maybe about $50 worth or so. The sales associate kept insisting that I had to apply for a Office Max preferred customer card but I kept refusing. I said I rather buy the stuff elsewhere than give them my personal info. He finally shut up. I paid cash and walked out.

I get the same thing with Safeway whenever I pick up something there.

Re:Reminds me of OMAX..

[mattack2]

Well, at least for weekly 'club card' purchases, you're paying more without the card. Fine, it's your choice.

Yabbut...

[cptdondo]

Wait till they get a patent on this method!

Re:Yabbut...

[Bromskloss]

Wait till they get a patent on this method!

Exactly. We have the patent system so that new ideas do not become widely available to society, thereby confining the damage.

Re:Yabbut...

[JD-1027]

+1 Sad, But True

Pushing the hell out of service plans in retail...

[damn_registrars]

Really worked well for these guys, and of course these guys, too. Sounds like a great idea to apply to more retailers. I wonder, can I buy an extended warranty on a case of pens from Office Depot as well? Damned things keep breaking on me.... And how about these? They might break, too.

Maybe they're lying

[joeflies]

but I think it has to do more with poorly trained employees and managers who don't care about the top line revenue of the sale, and rather focused on driving just the attachment rate. I don't think this is limited to Office Depot because you can go to any car dealer and most electronic shops and get the same story.

Something about this story doesn't add up though. From the article "We were surprised by how aggressively the sales associate tried to convince us not to buy the system and then, when we said we still wanted it, how aggressively he tried to convince us to buy its corresponding tech services.". I thought the point the article is supposed to be making is that the rep will say it's out of stock AFTER they refuse the corresponding tech services, not before.

Now the people who call my cell phone warning me "This is the second notice that your car warranty has expired", well those people ARE lying.

I have -2 words- for Office Depot

[david.emery]

"Circuit City".

Not that I'd buy tech there in any event (I'm one of those smarmy Mac guys), but this certainly means I'll minimize my purchases to only those staples (pun possibly intended) like paper and pencils.

Appalled and angry? Deal with it.

[Xaximus]

Why would anybody be appalled and angry at a store for trying to upsell a customer? That's business, and there's nothing inherently wrong about it. A store has no duty, legally or morally, to inform a customer as to whether or not a purchase is a "good deal." If you don't want to buy the extended warranty, then don't. Of course, I'm not talking about dishonesty here. If someone lies to you about what you're buying, that's a different matter completely.

Things that matter?

[gknoy]

> This message brought to you from the 'please channel your anger towards things that actually matter dept

I believe that when you say "things that actually matter", you really mean "things that you feel you can change". Politicians not reading bills is Very Bad -- but there's little one feels they can do about it.

I bought mine... at Circuit City

[PCM2]

Believe it or not, I bought my current PC at Circuit City. I know, I know. But at the time, Circuit City had the same model HP Pavilion for as little or less than anyone online, with the additional advantage that I could jump on the bus and go buy one today, rather than having to wait around for UPS to deliver it. A week later, Amazon.com dropped the price by $50, so I went back to Circuit City and said, "Hey! I you guys ripped me off!" The nice kid at the cash register promptly credited $50 to my card. Total time without a working computer: 18 hours. Total money lost due to not shopping online: $0.

Am I sorry they're out of business?

I dunno. Not really.

Re:I bought mine... at Circuit City

[icannotthinkofaname]

Am I sorry they're out of business?

I dunno. Not really.

Good. You shouldn't be sorry. It's not your fault they're finished. It's everyone who didn't buy their computers from Circuit City, thereby denying Circuit City a profit from the consumer's money.

Re:I bought mine... at Circuit City

[sxltrex]

Let me see if I've got this right. You found the best deal in town, made the purchase, a different retailer a week later lowers their price to $50 below what you paid, so you return to the place of your purchase to complain that you were ripped off? I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.

Re:I bought mine... at Circuit City

[Anonymous Coward]

Future Shop and Best Buy also offer a service like this, something along the lines of if what you bought can be found cheaper somewhere else for 30 days after you buy it you can get a refund for the difference. The only requirement was that you had to have a copy of the ad showing the lower price.

Re:I bought mine... at Circuit City

[Onyma]

I think he was joking on the literal "ripped off" comment. It is a great service though, got a decent refund on a camera a week after I bought it once from Future Shop.

Re:I bought mine... at Circuit City

[The Grim Reefer2]

Let me see if I've got this right. You found the best deal in town, made the purchase, a different retailer a week later lowers their price to $50 below what you paid, so you return to the place of your purchase to complain that you were ripped off? I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.

I would guess he has a pretty good idea of what it means. Obviously he knows how to use the phrase to get a retailer to follow their stated policy on post-sale price matching in an expeditious manner as well.

In fact I'd say he got "ripped off" anyhow since CC had a 110% price matching policy.

Re:I bought mine... at Circuit City

[hansamurai]

The margin on computers is very small, if you would just go in, buy JUST the desktop or notebook and nothing else, they would rather not to business with you. What they want to sell you is the printer, the usb cable, the ink cartridges, and of course, the service plan.

Re:I bought mine... at Circuit City

[DocSavage64109]

I suppose that's why I occasionally see the same or better laptop at newegg.com for $200 less.

Perhaps you just mean low profit compared to the amazing markups placed on clothing.

Here is what I do

[bogaboga]

When I am to buy anything from stores like Office Depot, and happen to be coaxed into these service plans, I tell them:

"Look, this is a gift. If I must purchase a service plan before walking out with this product, then I will leave it. Now, can I have this product without a service plan or not?"

This script has worked remarkably well at all times. I have never been disappointed.

Re:Here is what I do

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you could try my favorite.

Oh its out of stock? Damn thought you guys had a good service plan too. Guess I will go to insert other store here.

Magically in stock again? At register with item in hand. Service plan? What service plan? I didnt say I wanted one please take it off.

Bait and switch works BOTH ways.

Re:Here is what I do

[thestreetmeat]

I always ask them "Why? Do these break a lot?" If they answer yes, then I tell them I don't want it anymore. It's fun to listen to them try to convince you to get the plan, but at the same time reassure you that it's a good product in the first place.

Re:Here is what I do

[IKnwThePiecesFt]

If they're halfway competent they'll just come back with "all break a lot, your model included" as most people won't say "oh if computers break I guess I don't want one".

Re:Here is what I do

[mgblst]

You know, I just say no. Maybe say no a couple of times. Hey, but you have got your magic story, you go right ahead, looking like an idiot.

Re:Here is what I do

[Ixitar]

My response to the pressure to buy a service plan is to counter with "So what you are telling me is that the product is crap." The salesperson extols the benefits of the great product, but then tells me that I need the extended service plan. If the product needs an extended service plan, then I do not want it.

Re:Here is what I do

[robert899]

"Look, this is a gift. If I must purchase a service plan before walking out with this product, then I will leave it. Now, can I have this product without a service plan or not?"

When I worked retail (Montgomery Wards) way back when, customers tried this line and we would always respond that the plan is transferable.

Now when I visit these stores my response to the sales person is "No thanks, I used to work retail and had to sell those plans". That tends to end the sales push.

Re:Here is what I do

[Just Some Guy]

I did exactly that when trying to buy an iMac without Applecare. After being held up for 5 minutes at the checkout while he kept trying to coerce me into getting the warranty, I loudly asked him exactly how big a piece of crap this thing was if it's so likely to break in the next 6 months and started to walk away. He decided that maybe it wasn't absolutely mandatory after all.

An Old Adage and a Modern One

[sehlat]

Since the days of the Romans, the adage has been "Caveat emptor." (Let the buyer beware.)

Now Modern Marketing has their own adage: "Carpe emptor!" (Seize the buyer.)

Let the Battle of the Adages Begin!

Re:An Old Adage and a Modern One

[shermo]

"Carpe emptorem!" Perhaps

Re:An Old Adage and a Modern One

[base3]

Geek :).

Re:An Old Adage and a Modern One

[Falconhell]

Ah slashdot, where there is a grammar Nazi even for
Latin-ya gotta laugh!

Re:An Old Adage and a Modern One

[shermo]

Hey! Those years of high school Latin are finally coming in handy.

Certainly not new

[mschuyler]

Selling up is hardly new with computer stores. Long time ago I bought a high-end VCR (Yup, THAT long ago) from a Silo store I had frequented. They always tried to sell the warranty, and this time I was damn sure I wasn't going to buy one. The sales lady rung up the order without asking, so I sarcastically asked, "Aren't you going to try to sell me one of those extended warranties?" "No," she said. "I can see it in your face that you aren't going to buy one." which I thought was pretty funny.

About the scripts: I worked retail for awhile and I gotta tell you, some of these 'sales associates' are so afraid of what to say that they demand scripts. They'll say, "What do I say?" so I'd say, 'Just talk to the customer and answer his questions.' "But what, exactly, am I supposed to say?" and it just goes on and on until you write them up a script to keep them quiet. This was especially true for customer complaints where no one wants to say the 'wrong' thing. As you know, once in awhile a customer can be kind of unreasonable, and there's this old aphorism that "the customer is always right." But as far as I'm concerned, that doesn't mean a front-line flak catcher has to take abuse. What the phrase means is, "The customer knows what he wants to buy, and if you don't have it, you screwed up." It doesn't mean if he starts yelling at tou that you have to stand there and just take it. Leave. get a manager. Whatever.

I did the same thing at Office Max

[slummy]

When I was 17 I worked for Office Max.

The incentives that they gave the salesperson who sold the extended "warranty" on any electronic/furniture item far outweighed any moral obligation for me. I would push a $5.99 1-year replacement warranty on just about anything I could, selling someone a $29.99 inkjet printer with a warranty gave me an extra $12 bucks in my check. Some weeks my check gross amount just about doubled from the volume of extended replacement plans I sold.
I don't blame them.

Re:I did the same thing at Office Max

[hansamurai]

Yep, did the same at Staples during high school. I remember one particular Sunday morning where I had sold a bunch of plans by noon, basically tripling my pay check for those sorry few hours, "$19 an hour! WOW!"

I don't regret selling the plans, some of them were nice, like the laptop screen repair. I never followed scripts, you can read people pretty easily after a while of selling electronics, I don't think I bothered asking even 50% of the time. I was only a top seller like once, but it didn't bother me.

Just remember most of these salespeople are just kids doing their job. If you don't want it, just say no. If they keep bothering you about it, just vote with your wallet and walk out.

Re:I did the same thing at Office Max

[GreatGrizzly]

I call bull on that, the most expensive plan I sold (for a 1400 dollar laser printer) netted me 9 dollars. I didn't care much about the plans. Never sold them and I was techie enough (and the only one) that I was never sacked for not selling.

Re:I did the same thing at Office Max

[Chrondeath]

Wait, so....they gave you an extra $12 for selling someone a $5.99 warranty? How's that work? Did you start offering to pay for the $6 plan yourself and pocket the extra $6?

A former employee

[UnrealisticWhample]

A few years ago I worked at Office Depot for about a month while I was looking for other work. I was hired on as a stocker, though they'd occasionally have me cover the computer department when we were short staffed. At our store, management set a quota for each employee for how many service plans we were supposed to sell each week with a required Saturday morning training session for any employee who did not reach their quota where we would do crap like train on these scripts and brainstorm incentive plans on how to motivate us to sell more.

I went to one of these stupid meetings and all I could say for myself is that since I worked as a stocker in office supplies, I didn't even sell anything that I could in theory have pushed a service plan on, even if I didn't think they were crap. They responded that I was mistaken because batteries were in my department and they qualified. WTF? How the hell are you supposed to sell a service plan on a pack of AA batteries? I quit before the next Saturday as I'd found another job, though I probably would have given them notice if it weren't for the crappy work environment.

Re:A former employee

[Akili]

About a decade ago I worked for Staples, in their business center.

I witnessed, firsthand, a 'model' employee taking a printer out of a customer's cart when the customer revealed that they weren't going to buy the money pit of an extended warranty plan! Subsequently telling that same customer that the entire wall of boxed printers was on hold for 'a school' was the icing on that particular cake.

Our store had the best rankings in the district because 'we' flat-out refused to let warranty-able items go out the door without a warranty being purchased. While the official store policy was never to use those sorts of tactics, there was a sheet that was distributed to each store in a given district, posted prominently in the break room, ranking each store by how well they did selling those warranty plans, and the best store got awards and the like. Kind of a we don't condone this behavior, but if it gets results, we'll pretend not to notice arrangement, it seemed.

I got in some hot water for not pushing those warranties - I sold perhaps one a month, usually because the customer wanted it - but I had other good employee qualities that they apparently decided were worth keeping me for.

Anyway. I have no idea if they still do such a thing, but it's not a new idea.

Re:A former employee

[SuiteSisterMary]

There was, several years ago, a Dilbert strip series where Dilbert goes to sales person training. The class started with the teacher saying somthing like 'I can't legally tell you to lie to customers, but it's really the only way to make quota.'

oh yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

office depot isnt the only place that pushes these.... i lost my job at k-mart years ago for openly opposing them (though the termination notice was full of lies about poor service).

at the time the statistics said only 5% of the smart plans were ever used, and nearly 100% of those used were within the time period when you could still return the product to the store, or get it repaired/replaced by the manufacturer. plus the service was provided by a third party, with a call center located in india. so they were difficult to deal with and k-mart had no liability.

from what i see of the marketplace now, the only time a service plan might be worth it is while perchasing $1000 plus products with service plans that only start AFTER the store and manufacturing warranty plans end... or provide crazy handy services, like pick up and delivery service during purchase/repair, and move-it-fr-you services when you move for the durration of the warranty (if you move a lot).

other than that in store plans mearly pad big corp's pockets and encourage the whole generations selling them to rely on lies and deceit to maintain basic employment; and just basic employment, since few companies share their profits with their employees.

I've got a better script.

[Locke2005]

"Nice little laptop you got here... shame if anything happened to it!"

Re:I've got a better script.

[Exawatt]

I hear my manager use that all the time. Not with the intention of damaging the laptop, but trying to scare customers into buying plans.

Re:I've got a better script.

[ProfM]

TROLL????? WTF?

I dunno who modded you as a troll, I personally found it pretty funny. Only if I had some mod points now ...

How is this different?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is it different from Barnes and Noble where a young teenager offers their *membership* everytime you check out? I only go their once a year anymore (as Amazon often has better prices than B&N membership prices). In fact, it was one of the motivating factors for me to stop walking in the store. They have been doing this for years. Perhaps this is the reason they are unable to keep employees.

Not just Office Depot

[bradgoodman]

I've recently been to Sport's Authority, twice, and each time was solicited extended warranty plans for a pair of rollerblades, and (get this), a pair of freaking ski goggles. Anything for a buck...

Scam

[interval1066]

Just another scam. Why go through the hassle? I just bought a netbook for my wife from Amazon. Has as low a price as I could find for that particular product, no hassle, no muss, no fuss. The only hassle I can see is that I can't walk out of their establishment with my purchase that day. But I didn't have a sales clown in my face telling what I need, getting in my way, forcing me to smell his BO, etc... For this kind of service I can wait.

CompUSA was the same way

[eyeota]

When I worked at Compusa, we had similar quotas on our ESP (extended service plans) later renamed TSP (Technology Service Plans). The quota/goal was 3% of gross individual sales.

We didn't refuse sales, although, we would put sales out the door without going under our name in the system as to not affect our individual percentage.

Store managers were under the same type of pressure to maintain the overall TAP percentage and would basically do whatever was necessary to make it happen. One 'trick' was to 'negotiate' the sale of the TAP with the customer and discount the computer and record the reason as a 'price match'.

On the plus side, I do recall purchasing a couple 2 year Exchange Plans on cell phones there (when they sold them) in case my phone mysteriously died, I could get another phone of equal value [read newer/better] at that time. Strangely enough, both phones purchased failed around 18 months and I had to get an upgrade. Glad I had that instant exchange warranty on it. :)

Re:CompUSA was the same way

[El_Oscuro]

I bought a $150 car stereo from Radio Shack about 20 years ago. When the drone pitched the service plan, I was about to tell him what he could do with it when he mentioned it also covered theft. I bought the plan, and sure enough, the damn thing was stolen the day after I installed it. Maybe the drone was in on it, but it seems like a waste of time to drive 10 miles to get a $150 stereo when probably there is a better one down the street. Anyway, Radio Shack covered the stereo but I still did have to eat the $80 for a new window.

Will they replace a candy bar under the plan?

[Joe The Dragon]

Will they replace a candy bar under the plan?

I can see it now.

Just buy a candy bar and they ask do you want a protection plan you say yes eat it right there and ask them How do I make a clam?

As for batteries will they give new ones for free when they go dead or does the plan cost more then the batteries?

Re:Will they replace a candy bar under the plan?

[CannonballHead]

clam

Get a mother clam, a father clam, and put them in a clamhouse.

Re:Will they replace a candy bar under the plan?

[CannonballHead]

*sigh* -1 ruined joke. what I meant to say is ...

How do I make a clam?

Get a mother clam, a father clam, and put them in a clamhouse.

Re:Will they replace a candy bar under the plan?

[Pontiac]

As for batteries will they give new ones for free when they go dead or does the plan cost more then the batteries?

Yes

Simply go to our website and click on the battery return button. Fill out the Battery RMA request including date/time,location purchased, name of sales person, intended use, device model name, serial number the battery was installed in, mothers maiden name and current contact information (name, address, phone number, email address and emergency contact)

One form per battery please

Simply print out the RMA form ship the battery to the "Battery service center" in Elbonia so a qualified battery service technician can verify that they are indeed defective. Then you can get a new battery but you have pay for return shipping plus a $6 processing fee.

Bundling multiple RMA's in a single shipment is not allowed.

Re:Appaling?

[nsayer]

That's a good word.

Actually, it's not. Appalling is a word, but not appaling.

Frys Beat Them to It

[Sponge Bath]

Fry's (at least in Austin) has been doing this for a while.
I got to be on the receiving end of that scam. The sales drone confirmed it was in stock. Someone went to get it as the original drone typed in my info. After I declined the extended warranty, the original drone stops typing, initiates a call, mumbles something into the phone, hangs up, and then informs me that the laptop was out of stock.

I mean come on, at least make it look more convincing by having the second guy come back and say 'oops I could not find one'.

Re:Frys Beat Them to It

[AndrewNeo]

I think a good way around this would to be to use two people.. after they do that to you, come back in a couple of hours with a friend. Split up, have your friend motion to get it with the service plan, then back out at the last second, just as you come up. "Oh, you -do- have them in stock!"

Re:Idea

[Walpurgiss]

How do you prevent some other shopper from buying the items you wanted before you arrive there, or prove that such did not occur?

Also, how do you prove that their computerized inventory is infallible?

Re:Appalled and angry? Deal with it.

[sgage]

Yes, selling people stuff they don't need, because they don't know any better. Nothing wrong with that! It is fundamentally dishonest. It is deceit. Our system is (was) based on it. No more.

Not News

[hduff]

When did we forget caveat emptor and expect the seller to be fair and do business in our favor all the time?

• The idealism of consumer-focused selling always falls prey to reality.
• We demand low prices that result in low profits, so a business needs to find some other means to generate profits.
• "Selling what we have" will prevail over "Selling what's best for the customer" almost every time.
• People lie and cheat to achieve their goals, especially when their goals are at contretemps to the other party and they'll lose their jobs if they aren't successful.
• Buyers always have a choice; complain and/or vote with your pocketbook/feet.

I once worked at a bank that set high goals for the "sale" of credit life insurance on consumer loans. Without exception, credit life insurance obtained through the lender is a bad deal for the borrower and a great deal for the bank - DON'T EVER BUY CREDIT LIFE INSURANCE. If the borrower "asks" for it, the premium is not counted in the A.P.R. calculation; if it is required, it must be part of that calculation, vastly inflating the A.P.R. Guess how much credit life was sold as "asked for" and how much was sold as "required"?

We were instructed as to patently illegal and devious means to write it as "asked for" while the bank President stood in the room. The one fellow who questioned the practices was fired within the month. I left shortly thereafter.

It happens everywhere. That's the sad, harsh real world.

This is not news.

"Office Depot Provides Legitimate Extended Warranties At No Extra Cost" would be news.

Re:Wow

[dabbaking]

Like I said in my earlier comment, it's one bad apple most likely. Getting PIP'd is an inside joke and it doesn't really mean much. I honestly care that people get the right stuff when they walk out. Like when someone gets a printer (not networked), I ask if they need a cable. It's not that I want to raise out Market Basket, it's that I don't want them coming back pissed wondering why it wasn't working (they didn't know to get the cable). Any replacement plan or repair plan for any store preys on people's distrust of the technology. It's also pretty much pure profit for the company. If they didn't make enough doing it, they wouldn't do it, but it's too lucrative.

I don't know why anyone is surprised by this

[kybur]

Every experience I've had with Office Depot customer service was abysmal.

Last thing I tried to buy from them was two file cabinets. I ordered them for delivery from a brick-and-mortar Office Depot They charged my card, gave me an expected ship date, and, later, notification that the cabinets had shipped. When over a week passed, and they hadn't arrived, I drove back to the store, and they told me that they had shipped already and that I should have them. An hours worth of phone calls later, I find out that they had not actually shipped them yet, and that they just tell everyone that the products have shipped without even looking it up.

When the cabinets did arrive (expensive, $400 two drawer cabinets), I opened both boxes before the truck left and found both of them damaged. The guy from the trucking company that Office Depot contracts in my area, told me that there are like 4 or 5 times more problems with Office Depot stuff than any other company that he delivers for.

I sent them back with the trucker and cancelled my order.

Ordered the same thing from Staples online, and had them two days later.

Dealing with Office Depot is always like this. The only reason to buy from them is if you been in a really good mood for weeks and can't think of any other way to shake it.

Well, that's one problem I'll never have

[istartedi]

I found one vintage keyboard model that I like, and I've stuck with it, accumulating them when they come up on eBay and various other places. The one I'm typing on now has dual English-Japanese key caps on it which, IMHO, is cool and different. I have to use an AT to PS2 converter, which I plug into a PS2 to USB converter. If anything supersedes USB (doesn't seem likely) it might get really ugly though.

Well, that's one problem I won't have

[istartedi]

I found one vintage keyboard model that I like, and I've stuck with it, accumulating them when they come up on eBay and various other places. The one I'm typing on now has dual English-Japanese key caps on it which, IMHO, is cool and different. I have to use an AT to PS2 converter, which I plug into a PS2 to USB converter. If anything supersedes USB (doesn't seem likely) it might get really ugly though. If it weren't for the fact that most old equipment uses more power than new equipment I'd probably get everything refurb. Yeah... guys like me killed the consumer driven economy. Sorry 'bout that, oops! My bad. Now, let's see if this gets attached to the proper thread. Somehow my original reply got attached to the next comment after yours...

Re:Well, that's one problem I won't have

[bhtooefr]

If USB goes away... start collecting USB-equipped dumb terminals, as ethernet isn't going anywhere any time soon. Use them to VNC into your main computer, and just use it for the keyboard.

Re:Well, that's one problem I won't have

[Bryan Ischo]

If it has Japanese characters on the keyboard, does it also have many of the punctuation marks in the 'wrong' places, like real Japanese keyboards do?

If so, it wouldn't be something that I would want. I've declined some really nice Japanese import computers for that very reason - I don't want to have to re-learn how to type just to use the thing ...

Re:Well, that's one problem I won't have

[i.r.id10t]

I know how you feel... I have 3 model Ms in the garage, waiting to be needed.

Re:Well, that's one problem I won't have

[E. T. Moonshade]

Woosh!

That was the point going right over your head, by the way.

Standard practice

[Soubrause]

This is standard practice at every big box store. there is no profit in the laptop itself so if you don't buy the warranty and the $30 USB cable they can't stay open. If every customer got their rebates, nobody bought the warranty, and accessories were reasonably priced they couldn't compete without going bankrupt in a year.

Office Despot

[tverbeek]

I've avoided buying anything at Office Despot since I walked into one years ago and they had a sign boasting that they test their employees for drugs. Even aside from the fact that I find that invasion of employees' privacy troublesome on principle, why would I - as a customer - care whether the guy ringing up my sale smokes a little weed once in a while, or even if the girl restocking the shelves does a line of coke every night? What kind of business brags about how worker-unfriendly an employer they are?

Re:Office Despot

[khellendros1984]

I suppose that's one way to think about it. Another is that since those drugs are illegal, they tend to be supplied by large drug-smuggling operations. You buy something, some of that money goes into the salesperson's pocket, and some of that goes into the illegal drug trade.

Re:Office Despot

[atraintocry]

I think it was pretty clear that the signs were meant to provoke a positive kneejerk response from the "DRUGS ARE BAD M'KAY" crowd.

Re:Office Despot

[ImNotAtWork]

I don't care what people do in their spare time... however something to consider Given the choice would you really want to be standing next to warehouse racks holding palettes of merchandise built by some one who toked up before they came to work or some one who doesn't use.

Re:Office Despot

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that more people abuse legal, prescription drugs than illegal drugs in the U.S. And that money goes into the pocket of Big Pharma...oh. Nevermind.

Re:Office Despot

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Given the choice would you really want to be standing next to warehouse racks holding palettes of merchandise built by some one who toked up before they came to work or some one who doesn't use.

This is a red herring. "Before they came to work," of course not, but then, I wouldn't want to be there next to someone who downed a six-pack before coming to work either. But if he got stoned the night before, or got drunk the night before, or both, or neither -- why should I care?

Re:Office Despot

[interkin3tic]

I suppose that's one way to think about it. Another is that since those drugs are illegal, they tend to be supplied by large drug-smuggling operations.

I run a mom-and-pop drug smuggling operation, you insensitive clod!

Re:Office Despot

[xilmaril]

I suppose that's one way to think about it. Another is that since those drugs are illegal, they tend to be supplied by large drug-smuggling operations.

I run a mom-and-pop drug smuggling operation, you insensitive clod!

hahahaha... that's awesome. Incidentally, so does your mom. no wait, I mean my mom.

Re:Office Despot

[stephanruby]

Think of it like a badge of honor. It's like a restaurant that renames itself to "Quality Food", or a dry cleaner that calls itself "Best Cleaners". It's a subtle way to admit that there was once a huge problem, for instance that Office Depot was a major drug operation, or that crack whores were working the copy machine at the back counter, but now it's a show of good faith that says -- we used to be bad, but everything is taken care of now -- because now there is a sign that says that it is.

Re:Office Despot

[Darby]

I suppose that's one way to think about it. Another is that since those drugs are illegal, they tend to be supplied by large drug-smuggling operations. You buy something, some of that money goes into the salesperson's pocket, and some of that goes into the illegal drug trade.

That's just an argument not to pay your taxes since they go to fund the enforcement of the drug laws which is the root cause of the overwhelming majority of the problems associated with the drug trade.

The illegal drug trade and the associated violence is caused directly by the drug laws, so by paying your taxes, you are choosing to fund that activity in a far more direct and damaging manner than simply buying drugs.

 

Re:Office Despot

[PitaBred]

You know, we really should just legalize more drugs and tax the shit out of them... that'd be a great way to get money back into the economy. Why do we let the drug cartels get it under the table tax-free?

Re:Office Despot

[tverbeek]

That's a stretch that would do Plastic Man proud. I know I don't obsess over how the employees of business I patronize spend their paychecks, especially employees whose pay is not directly related to how much I spend.

Lie?

[PPH]

instructing staffers to lie and tell people who want to buy laptops without service plans that they're out of stock.

I don't get how this would work. Generally, extended service plans are pushed at the end of the sales transaction, when you are standing at the cash register.* They might be good, but I've yet to meet a sales person that can convince me that the laptop I'm holding is out of stock** and must be a figment of my imagination.

*Any earlier and the issue of product reliability becomes an issue. "What! I need a service plan? Does this thing break down a lot?"

**Generally, when I walk in to a store to buy something, the first thing I do (before aking about all of the expensive accessories) is to see if they actually have one in stock. Yes? Well, bring it out and let me take a look at it. The continuation of the transaction is predecated upon them actually producting the item in person.

Re:Lie?

[Renraku]

Actually, there used to be a scam site that mainly sold digital cameras.

The big scam was two fold. First, the warranty. They said their parts came with no warranty at all, and you had to buy one in order to buy a camera from them. Secondly, the cameras were body only. So you pay for the body, which is some what normal in the photography world if you already have a set of decent lenses that work with that body. But the thing was, the body supposedly had no mounting hardware, since they didn't ship from the makers this way, so you had to pay extra for that. So far, all of this has been a complete lie by the scammers. If you refused the warranty, or all the extra shit they tried to sell you, they'd tell you that they were currently out of stock but that your order has been processed and you'd receive it when they got it in stock. Then your credit card would get charged from random places all the time, because it had been stolen.

I don't know if they were still around, but there were many lawsuits filed and they just reopened under new names.

Since the scammers couldn't be proven to have used the credit info them selves, beyond a shadow of a doubt since it would be a felony charge, the only way people could actually nail them for their scam was by catching them in that 'out of stock' lie. Something about bait and switch, false advertising, etc, etc.

If someone tells you they have something in stock and suddenly they don't when you don't want to buy their scammy extras, you could have a bait-and-switch case.

Re:Lie?

[ebuck]

As corollary to "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetency", try "Never assume that all business initiatives are foolproof or inherently based on logic."

My personal approach...

[rlk]

If the salesperson makes it clear that s/he's simply going through the motions with the extended warranty because he's required to, but that he really understands that I know better, I will politely decline it. This actually happened at Tweeter a number of years ago when we bought a TV -- he even prefaced it by saying that he was required to ask us, even though he knew we knew it was a bad deal. If the person acts serious about it, I'll be rude -- cold, snarky, or just plain condescending depending upon my mood. My strategy is to make pushing this kind of warranty an unpleasant experience while rewarding sales people (at least emotionally) who treat me respectfully.

Someone at Radio Shaft sold my mother in law a "protection plan" on a $12 phone. I managed to convince her to go right back to the store and demand a refund on it, which she had no problem with.

Re:My personal approach...

[shermo]

while rewarding sales people (at least emotionally) who treat me respectfully

So people who don't push the plans will get some smiles. People who push the plans get $12 a sale.

Unfortunately I think most salespeople will keep on pushing protection plans.

Once upon a kind sales person ...

[indian_rediff]

I remember going to one of these big box retailers - I vaguely remember it to be The Wiz (sometime known as Nobody beats The Wiz) and buying a VCR or a DVD payer (I forget which). The salesman told me about the extended service plan. I told him that I don't need one. He said, 'Sir, it is simple. Please buy the extended service plan. It will cost you $45.00. But you have 3 days within which you can come back to the store and cancel it. Please do it for my sake'

I did buy the extended service plan and then canceled it a couple of days later.

One other time, when I was buying one of those ultra-cheap DVD players ($20 or so) from Circuit City (I think - it could have Best Buy too) and the sales guy tried to foist a $25 extended waranty on me). When I told him that it would be cheaper for me to buy 2 of the players, instead of his warranty, he didn't know where to look.

All in all, pretty sad the way they catch unwary customers.

Re:Commission

[evolx10]

Superman cannot make 15% = 200%, unless.......

read this for the real stormy on car sales men

[Joe The Dragon]

read this for the real stormy on car sales men
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

Re:read this for the real stormy on car sales men

[von Prufer]

Thank you for the link. Great read!

Re:read this for the real stormy on car sales men

[Falconhell]

IT vendors only exist so that people who are too evil to sell used cars have somewhere to work.

Re:wait a sec

[VGPowerlord]

The only Office Depot store around where I live moved out.

Of course, Office Max and Staples are still around...

Upsells happen everywhere

[kkrajewski]

At the video store, we had to ask if you wouldn't like to get another candy bar for only 30 cents more, or if you'd like to sign up for our frequent renter program and get some free older movie rentals. It happens; it increases revenue; get used to it.

To be devil's advocate, maybe there's someone that really beats the hell out of their $5 mice and the service plan would really benefit them.

It's not that hard to say, "No, thank you."

I have -1 word- for Circuit City

[ProfM]

Closed.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/16/news/companies/circuit_city/

Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[Futurepower(R)]

Circuit City had a bad reputation. If you could buy something somewhere else, you would probably go there. Now it looks to me as though Office Depot is ODing on the same foolish management ideas.

It would be interesting if we could know two things: 1) Exactly how much Office Depot makes by selling overpriced "protection" plans. 2) How much it will cost Office Depot because of stories about the company being abusive on Reddit.com, Digg.com, and Slashdot.

That Digg link leads to a New York Times article about the Office Depot CEO. Quoting: "The worst chief executive of the year was Steve Odland of Office Depot, according to Glassdoor.com's reviewers. He had an 80 percent disapproval rating."

CEOs in the U.S. often make 475 times the pay of the average person. I suppose it doesn't matter to many CEOs if the company they are managing dies. The CEOs make millions as fast as possible, and when the company dies, they retire or do something else.

That isn't honest, I think it is psychologically self-destructive, but it seems to me that's the way things often are.

Warren Buffett warned about bank failures in 2003. It was certainly no secret; anyone with any interest in financial business knew about the problem. Bank executives knew that what they were doing would be the end of their companies. I suppose they were making so much money (sometimes $40 million per year) that they didn't feel it was necessary to care. It was understood, and often discussed even on TV, that the U.S. taxpayer would pay for any problems that were created; that is happening exactly the way it was planned.

Re:Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[Skapare]

You mean this?

1. Get job as CEO
2. Drive company into bankruptcy
3. Profit (retire rich on fat bonus)!

Re:Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[interkin3tic]

It would be interesting if we could know two things: 1) Exactly how much Office Depot makes by selling overpriced "protection" plans. 2) How much it will cost Office Depot because of stories about the company being abusive on Reddit.com [reddit.com], Digg.com [digg.com], and Slashdot.

Not only that, but it seems to me that they're doing it wrong if they're pushing an extended warranty with the hard-sell. Its supposed to be an impulse buy that customers don't really care one way or another about, so they'll agree to another nickel and dime.

I worked at gamestop for a while, they have their version of the extended warranty that was for 1 year on new and used games, for something like three dollars I think. The trick was telling the customers they wanted to spend just a tiny bit more rather than trying to convince them it was in their interest. I guess some people see gamestop employees as authorities on games and listen to them, which is silly.

If Office Depot is having problems pushing the extended warranties on people, they're charging too much, and possibly offering too much, making it something people actually think about rather than just saying "sure, I don't care." Maybe they should offer the same warranty that the manufacturer does for like $20 or $10, and in the fine print say something like we'll ship it to the manufacturer for you, you'll get your replacement in 4-6 weeks.

And by "should" I mean "they're clearly without morals, so this is just doing it smarter, and they'd go to hell quicker for doing it."

Re:Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[Nick Ives]

Because once you get past having enough money to survive the rest of your life, money just becomes a way of keeping score. I remember hearing Bernie Ecclestone saying it once in an interview and I've heard other very rich people express the same sentiment.

I expect someone like Buffett will have a hundred million or so stashed somewhere. He could loose everything else and still be able to live better than virtually almost anyone else in the world.

Re:Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[E. T. Moonshade]

Just as a note, while Odland is a dick, and there's a good chunk of OD employees who disapprove of him, the company itself consistently wins customer service awards - apparently, the "Stevie" (whatever the hell THAT is) was won this year by the company.

This is an isolated and overblown incident - and if someone at my store pulled this stunt, they'd be fired - right before I punched them in the face (If they're no longer employed, it's just simple assault, right? ;) (bonus points - I'm not a manager, just management-ready) We actually -do- value our customers, especially in our store where we get plenty of regular ones.

That being said - we -are- encouraged to sell PPPs at our store, and they -do- get touchy if we don't. Also though, experience counts. I bought a $300 chair with one of the PPPs, using my tax rebate money last year. The back snapped off it near the beginning of this year - called 'em up, got my money back for it. I'll grant, it comes back on a gift card, but it can be used for pretty much anything you want in-store short of another gift card. ;p

And yes, as far as the stores are concerned, the PPP is damned near pure profit. On the other hand, like I said - perhaps I've had a dose of the kool-aid, but not having to spend another crapload of money (especially when I'm making retail money) on something gives one a different perspective on the things.

Assclowns like the employee mentioned in the original article? They're just trying to draw a paycheck and keep a job in this economy. The ones who actually believe in the plans are the ones who are A: not pushy, and B: successful. ... I rambled. Sorry. _

Re:Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[Wyzardking]

Darl? Is that you?

Re:Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[DrgnDancer]

The problems being that someone with the kind of money buffet has almost literally can't "cash out". If Buffet's billions were made liquid that would, in itself, put a huge strain on the economy. I just heard on the radio today that between them the world's top 10 billionaires control almost 3 TRILLION dollars. That's down from a high of over 4 TRILLION dollars. There's not that much liquid cash in the world.

Re:Office Depot CEO: "Worst CEO of 2008"

[digitalunity]

The reason its different is that a couple dollars on a $50 purchase isn't much money in absolute or relative dollars. It's around 5% of the purchase price.

I don't know about Office Depot, but at Best Buy the extended warranty for my laptop was like $70, over 10% of the purchase price. Higher, by far in absolute and relative terms.

Another key difference is that computers are already covered by manufacturer warranty. If my laptop dies today, HP will repair or replace it and I didn't purchase any extended warranty.

I want you in my...

[jonaskoelker]

Wow, if you get appalled over scripts for cashiers, [...] Man, I must be feeling bitter today.

I want my coffee to taste how you feel ;-)

I can top that...

[TiggertheMad]

I worked at ChimpUSA in college (same shit, different company), and once of my co-workers with less than stellar morals managed to sell some lady a 1 year warranty on printer ink.

When the boss found out, he yelled at the guy, not for being a total slimeball, but because the woman could have probably come back and got free replacements for her 'defective' (re:empty) ink cartridges for the next year...

Re:I can top that...

[MistrBlank]

A clever manager would be able to point to the clause that states normal wear through proper usage is not covered.

He probably wasn't clever enough for that though.

Afterlife?

[Tau Neutrino]

My favorite experience of this sort was when the Home Depot cashier tried to sell me an extended waranty on a sump pump. I had selected the particular model because it came with a life-time guarantee, and said so in very large print, right on the box.

That must have been some extended warranty.

Re:Afterlife?

[Tau Neutrino]

Hey, I just noticed this article is about Office Depot, not Home Depot.

Never mind.

tell them they're stupid and laugh your ass off

[enricohale]

Just do what I do: announce loudly that anyone who buys an extended warranty is an idiot, that it's a tax on people who can't do math, and that anyone who recommends an extended warranty is either a liar or stupid, and then ask the clerk, "so which is it, liar or stupid?"

Simply ask if what is the defect on the product.

[Conficio]

Pushing some sort of added warranty plan is common place for a long time. Office Depot might be even more aggressive, but I have dealt with them for years by asking "Hmm, you make me think, why do I need this extended warranty. Are you telling me that the product is of such shoddy quality that it won't last very long? May be I should buy another product and/or elsewhere?"

So far all sales people, without exception, stopped pushing after that. :-))

 

That's nothing new

[lewp]

I worked at Best Buy back in college and we used to tell people the cheap boxes we advertised in the paper were out of stock if they weren't gonna buy the service plan all the time. We'd do it even if there was a whole row of boxes sitting right in front of them. The first time I saw it, I was amazed, and I'm sure Best Buy would never admit it, but we used to be instructed to do it by management on a regular basis.

Re:Appalled and angry? Deal with it.

[m.ducharme]

And you're neglecting the subset of people for whom it is a good deal. By no means is every extended offer worth the price, but if you pay attention to what they actually give you (and trust the store to give it to you when you need it), it can be very much worth it.

Re:Idea

[m.ducharme]

Also, how do you prove that their computerized inventory is infallible?

Let me answer that one: you don't.
I'm sure all online inventories have a disclaimer about being up to 24 hours out of date, and I'm also sure, from personal experience, that is' probably because the online inventory is often as much as 24 hours out of date.

Re:No comprendo

[night_flyer]

I dont know about now, but when I worked at Computer City, we rarely broke even on the sale of a new computer... accessories and extended warranties made up the difference

It's just so pathetic

[robmclaughjr]

I never had a problem with a business trying to earn money but these clowns are pathetic. Thanks for the info, I'll never let them know if I want to buy their "service plan" until I have a look at the product and have it in my hands at the cash register. It's just sad how these businesses race to the gutter. They have no integrity and deserve no respect. I think people should approach these businesses as they would a criminal in a black market deal, I do. Watch your back and know your stuff before you talk to them.

How does that work?

[interkin3tic]

While this is an annoying policy on paper, there are several ways I could see this actually playing out, and none of them really seem to work.

Scenario 1

Customer: "Hi, I want to buy this laptop"
Clerk: "You wanna buy an extended warranty?"
Customer: "No thanks"
Clerk: "We don't have any in stock"
Customer: "Uh... then yes I do?"
Clerk: "We just got some in right now!"
Customer: "Then I'll take one without the warranty."
Clerk: "Aw, what a shame, we just sold out."

Scenario 2

Clerk: "Hey, you seem interested in that there laptop, you want to buy one?"
Customer: "Sure."
Clerk: "Extended warranty?"
Customer: "No thanks"
Clerk: "Sorry, I just checked, we're out of stock"
Customer: "But... you didn't go anywhere, you didn't even act like you were looking in the stock room"
Clerk: "Uh... Telepathy!"

Scenario 3:

Customer: "I want this laptop."
Clerk: "You want extend waranty."
Customer: "No"
Clerk: "No computer in stock"
Customer: "Yes you do, this box right here, in my hand, I want to buy it."
Clerk: "Me ring up"
Customer: "Okay here"
(Customer hands computer to Clerk, Clerk smashes the computer with a primitive club)
Clerk: "No computer in stock."

Then again, I haven't worked in retail for a long time, maybe my "Lying to strangers" skills are rusty.

OD Sales

[Terakkan]

I worked at Office Depot for a while and yeah a lot of them push this stuff, especially the newer and younger managers. But generally if you get into a store with a tech sales person who's been around for more than a couple of years they'll try and sell you on them but won't pull that "We must've just sold the last one" BS on you. Any honest one will check the availability for you early to avoid running you through the sales pitch and sending you home with nothing. The newer ones will send you to a store who will sell it to you with nothing so they can keep their numbers up.

Re:OD Sales

[symbolset]

When the purpose of a store becomes to avoid the simple sale of the product at the marked price, management has failed and the store is doomed.

Re:OD Sales

[Dhalka226]

I take it you've never heard of "loss leaders?"

Re:Staples does the same thing

[shentino]

I wish there was a +1 brave

Re:Idea

[ImNotAtWork]

In most US States if it's not explicitly stated while supplies last the store must offer you a rain check for the same or comparable item (same specs) at the advertised price.

Re:Lieing or just dumb?

[mattdt0]

I bought a paper cutter (the kind with the circular blade you slide up and down) the other day from Office Depot. I asked if they sold replacement blades. The girl behind the counter swore up and down that if I bought the $10.49 replacement plan and the blade dulled I could bring the thing back and get a replacement of the entire paper cutter. This was on a $50 item. I don't know if she was lieing or just dumb, but she swore up and down 3 times that was the policy. I laughed and refused to waste the money.

I'd put my money on both, lieing and dumb.

You are wrong

[aepervius]

Quote On the flip side, without those regulations you can always turn around and resell a product that you realize that you don't want. You might still take a loss, but then, you went out and bought a product you didn't really want. Personally I'd rather people who buy products that they don't want take the loss instead of everyone.

Thsoe regulation do not cover second hand sale but first hand sale. So with or without those regulation you can both do the above as second hand sale.

Secondly there is a good reason to have SOME of such regulation. Without them it would be "CAVEAT EMPTOR" everywhere with the customer screwed up. Whether there are too much of them right now is open to interpretation, but after seeing the seedier part of the business side of such shop, I don't see anything wrong with the current regulation.

This seems familiar...

[tnok85]

Back in high school, I worked at a Media Play. It was a chain similar to Best Buy and Circuit City, but it had a massive book section alongside video games, software, music, and movies.

I worked in the video games/software section as a sales associate. Unfortunately, they didn't pay us commissions, but they sure as hell threatened us with losing our jobs if we didn't meet quotas.

Let me list out what we had to push on customers:

- "Free" issue of some general entertainment magazine (That would automatically charge your card if you didn't cancel in a week)
- "Free" issue of some movie magazine (That would automatically charge your card if you didn't cancel in a week)
- Dish TV subscription. (Yes, they wanted 16 year old 'associates' pushing a new TV form. Needless to say, only one person EVER sold one, and that was a manager)
- Media Play Rewards Card (The only semi-reasonable thing, low signup fee and money back - worth it if you spent more than a hundred dollars a year there)
- A Discover credit card... what the hell?

These were required to be pushed on EVERY CUSTOMER we saw, regardless of if they were walking to another section or not. I felt worst for the people heading towards the book section, as they had to pass through two other sections and were accosted at least once or twice before even reaching the book section.

This was only required if the customer was buying something electronic: (Gameboy, XBox, Playstation, etc)

- Extended Warranty Plan

We were told to lie about this, saying it was 100% coverage no matter what happened. Needless to say, 16 year old employees do not care to read a 10 page document of fine print to find this out. Not to mention that the store was on the way to being closed down (and they knew it) so these 3 year warranties wouldn't be honored anyway.

I never sold a single 'extra', even going so far as to tell people directly that these 'deals' were scams (except for the Media Play Rewards card, but I told them it'd be easier to just ask the cashier about it if they were interested) but I kept my job because I got a half dozen reports to my manager from customers about what a great employee I was. ;) I still got bitched at, but I kept my job.

And this is a situation where there's no commission.. ;)

Damn it...

[Greyfox]

I was going to boycott them, but then I realized that I've never actually purchased anything at Office Depot. So right now their relationship with me is already at 0 for them. If only there were some (legal) way to make that the number assigned to our relationship go negative for them...

For the benefit of the doubt

[despeaux]

I worked at Office Depot in Seattle for almost two years as a technology salesman. I know the system very well, and I can, with complete honesty, say that our store managers and the employees who sold the plans cared very much about the customers.

Yes, the employees and managers make a profit and bonuses (both) from selling them. And perhaps the plans are a bit more expensive than they should be.

But ya know what? If a customer ever came back to the store, complaining about a product that they had purchased that broke, for WHATEVER reason, we would ALWAYS take care of them if they had purchased a plan, even if they were still under the manufacturer's warranty. You can hate on OD all you want, and there very well may be "evil" stores out there who are just out to screw customers, but my experience was very different.

Our store had frequent repeat customers, because we would simply ask them if they wanted the plan. If they said no, we let it be. If they were hesitant, we would explain exactly what it would do for them. Because of this straightforward, honest, approach, people liked us and we always sold more plans than most other stores in the whole company.

So, again, it sucks that there are these bad policies put in place by certain stores, but you should know that not all stores take this approach, even if it is demanded by upper management. Having the customer's trust always brought more business.

This is why ...

[golodh]

Because nowadays, to the majority of customers, PC and laptops are just commodities?

They all run MS Windows, and therefore practically any software any ordinary customer is likely to use. So they can concentrate on essentials like: "Do I like the screen and the keyboard?".

With commodities it doesn't matter where you buy them; you shop on price and to some extent on features (like "Does it come with speakers? Are there USB and headphone jacks at the front?")and "extras" (like: "Do they throw in a free inkjet printer?").

Only nerds want to know things about processor type (let alone stepping), memory timing, motherboard make, BIOS make, extensibility, make and type of HDD, do I get a Windows install CD, can I downgrade to XP, right?

So?

[ez151]

What is the big deal. I used to setup pc's and printers for HP in Best Buys and it is common knowledge they would rather sell the "Service Plan" then the pc. No margin in pc sales without add-ons like $45.00 gold plated USB cables, etc. or the Fat all-profit plan. And yes if you said you did not want the plan they came back and said "Sorry, we just sold the last one and we are out of stock."

Re:So?

[ez151]

What i would do if I saw a great deal was tell them YEs I want the plan, then they walk you to the counter with the pc and as they are ringing you up I say I changed my mind, no plan, just the pc thank you very much. The rep would come back give a speech about pc's breaking, end of the earth as we know it, blah blah and I would say NO. Just the pc I have right here thank you very much byebye now!!!

An Office Depot story:

[Futurepower(R)]

Perhaps your Office Depot is run better than others. Office Depot advertised a "Centrino 2" laptop. I went to buy two. I tried one in the store, and discovered that the processor was not Centrino 2, but Pentium mobile. False advertising. I suppose a lot of people bought them and didn't discover until later that what they had was not what was offered.

Re:An Office Depot story:

[mccrew]

Isn't Centrino the Intel-branded Wifi chip, not the CPU?

Re:An Office Depot story:

[E. T. Moonshade]

As I recall, the Centrino brand referred to the whole mess - processor + mobo + wifi chip. I still remember the laptop he was talking about - vaguely, at least. I can't remember if it was a screw-up on the manufacturer's part or OD's part, but I do remember that there was a fix in place for it. It's happened a couple of times - sounds like the store he went to wasn't up on the shit they were supposed to be doing.

this is not news

[Uzik2]

Most of those types of stores have been trying to push warranties on me for years.
I have an angry face I guess. I just say "I'm not interested thank you". I don't usually have to say it twice.

Office Depot Responds

[Mindy K14]

First, as part of our commitment to providing office supply solutions to our customers, we offer numerous products and services, including service warranties and other complementary products and services for many technology products. These offerings are similar to other sellers of consumer electronics. Office Depot's objective is to offer such products and services to our customers, without regard to whether a customer purchases or does not purchase service warranties or other complimentary products and services. Although we offer a variety of sales promotions, like most retailers, we sell customers only what they wish to purchase. We do not have, nor have we ever had, policies or strategies contrary to this objective, and we do not condone sales practices to the contrary. Accordingly, we do not have any policies or sales objectives to limit the sales of laptop computers to only those customers who agree to purchase service warranties. Office Depot has been recognized with numerous awards for our commitment to customer service, so please know that we take this issue very seriously and will take the necessary steps to ensure that we continue to enhance the customer experience and promote quality in our customer-related processes. We are currently in the process of reviewing this situation, and if any associates have deviated from our sales objectives and policies, then they may be subject to disciplinary action, including termination. Mindy Kramer, Director of Public Relations for Office Depot

Slashdot attempt at sticking it to the man: fail.

[stewbacca]

Here we have another stupid story about how some rogue retailer is employing some strong-handed, unfair tactic to separate you from your hard earned cash. Bitching and moaning about Office Depot does nothing about this situation because....wait for it....ALL RETAIL STORE DO THIS.

Seriously, when are these targeted crusades against (fill-in-the-blank-large-box-store) going to end? Criticize the system, but quit pretending Office Depot are the bad guys. The real answer is to NOT shop there if it pisses you off. Better yet, you can always, you know, say "no thanks" when they run through their spiel.

Have any of the editors who thought this story was a good idea stopped and thought to themselves: "how is using a script to ask customers to buy an extended warranty any different than asking customers if they'd like fries with that, or if they'd like to supersize their coke?"

What did you honestly expect?

[TbB_thund3rp33l]

I work as a tech monkey / computer mechanic at a FutureShop in canada / BestBuy Canada.

Honestly, what do you expect from a retail chain where margin of their product is basically 0.

You sell a laptop .. you get MAYBE $5 in your pocket .. you sell a service contract you might quadruple that .. so where do you think you are going to make up money? On the service end of things .. IBM seems to have understood that ...

If you think that the general population KNOWS how to actually setup a computer ... how to do basic updates etc .. you are sadly mistaken. They DONT want to talk to someone over the phone .. they dont want to do things for themselves .. welcome to modern life .. do it for me and make sure it is done correctly .. whatever correctly is ...

Sure EVERYONE that reads this site can setup systems in their sleep, make recovery media while snacking and replace a kybrd/hd/lcd in the bathtub .. but can average Joe do it? no...
Flat no. And the only reason I say it, my phone at the store rings off the phone by the minute asking me these questions.

in the end ... duh .. yes there are service and setup options ... look at EVERY industry ... you will find them

Chairy

[spamguy]

Doesn't just pertain to computers, either. I walked into a ghost town of an Office Depot (or was it an Office Max?) looking for a comfy swivel chair. I found one, but it only existed as a floor model. The sales guy demonstrated his skill at one-sided haggling: while I said nothing, he kept pushing the price down, each offer prefixed with 'I shouldn't be doing this, but'.

Then came his concluding offer, which I suspect was the actual price of the chair minus markup. Unlike the ones before it, this offer had strings attached: instead of the $120 on the tag, pay $80 plus $10 extended warranty, or no deal.

Whatever. It's a comfy chair.

A fool and his money are soon parted

[fulldecent]

Everyone here knows not to buy these warranties. People who do buy the warranties subsidize the cheaper purchases that YOU make. This is how they offer the good deals on priceline (except on priceline stores, they call it "accessories").

By bringing attention to the matter, you are making it harder for us in-the-knows to buy things for subsidized prices.

Re:A fool and his money are soon parted

[citylivin]

That is the stores problem, doing things like loss leaders. Not the customer. Even less, the responsible knowledgeable customer. WHy would you want a system where other people got ripped off so that you could profit? You dont work in the banking industry do you?

Circuit City Back in the Day

[abroadst]

16 years ago when I worked for Circuit City they had a similar procedure. Sales counselors (as we were called) weren't explicitly instructed to deny the product to customers who didn't want the "cheese" (aka extended service plan or ESP) - but we too were subject to management scolding and eventual firing if we didn't meet our quotas. So there was a significant incentive to tell customers who didn't want the ESP, especially on a promotional item with a low spiff (aka commission) that they should either buy something else or maybe wait around awhile while the sales person ignores you until you leave. From the sales person's perspective, why bother selling a laptop that pays the sales person a dollar or 2 (if it's on sale) and reduces his or her ESP percentage? The only way out is to lie about stock, sell lots of overpriced accessories, or upsell to a higher margin unit with a higher spiff.

Re:Simply ask if what is the defect on the product

[Shadow99_1]

You must have had some crap sales people if they couldn't make a comeback to that... Not only have I sold plans to people who have said something like that when I worked at such stores during college, I've swung it into a higher end item & a plan on it...

It's really easy to not even lie about that when you see what comes back in as returns... "Oh model X comes back several times a week for one reason or another, you may really want to get item Z instead", I never lied to customers when selling plans. I didn't get as many as the liars did, but I got enough to keep me in a job... Even enough to make some extra cash at one point when they shared part of the profits with employees who sold plans (before I left they ended up taking all the money and giving salespeople nothing). This sadly was never much, a $100 service plan may net you $4... Most things net you a quarter or 2... The biggest payoff from them I ever got was on a $350 laptop plan (the plan was $350, the laptop was nearly $3k) and I kept a whole $15...

Desperate measure of cornered rats...

[Kazoo the Clown]

Out of stock? So they'd rather not sell it to you at all then? Nice to know they don't need your business. Or I guess the margins are so razor thin they actually lose money on them w/o the insurance.

Well, if so, we saw what happened to Circuit City, looks like these guys will be next...

I've seen similar

[slapout]

I once worked at an electronics retailer (whose name rhymes with "ack"). It wasn't approved by upper management, but the manager at my store used to tell the employees to add the extended warranties to the customer's bill without telling them. He said to do that and if the customer complained to take it off.

Re:I've seen similar

[bratwiz]

Years ago when I worked at the same electronics retailer (whose name rhymes with *RADIO SHACK*) It wasn't approved by upper management-- wait, are the Regional and District managers considered "upper" ???-- but the manager at my store (and the District Manager and the Regional Manager) used to tell the employees to add the extended warranties AND the two-or-three boxes of extra floppies AND the modem AND the printer AND the paper AND anything else we could think of on the customer's bill without telling them. They said to do that and if the customer complained to take it off.

They held regular meetings at the District HQ to teach us all sorts of methods to make the sleazy, easy.

Huh?

[TRRosen]

OK everyone here that posted they got a great deal on a hp at best buy please turn in your Slashdot credentials.No real slashdoter buys a HP, or shops at Best buy. If your last PC wasn't a mac or a homebuilt PC running linux or a pirated volume liscense version of XP Pro you are on the wrong site please try AOL.

mod parent up

[Lorens]

That should be insightful or informative :-)

It is well known in engineering that the failure curve of components is usually high in the first few weeks of use, high after a number of years corresponding to the expected product life, and extremely low in between.

The guy below who recommends not taking a warranty at all and using a credit card with a warranty has a good idea too (especially as some places the warranty comes in a pack with services you may want, so if you're paying anyway . . .)

Re:I am offended at what you people are saying.

[MightyMartian]

Im done ranting.... these comments people are posting are just outrageous and uninformed.

Quite frankly, the reason I don't visit stores like yours is because I simply detest some creepy kid trying to "help me".

Beyond that, what of the article's allegations?

Re:Let's look at reality. . .

[Fulcrum of Evil]

If you don't like the business model either a) Quit shopping there or b) Open your own computer business and attempt to be profitable just selling computers. Just quit your bitching about it.

If your business model requires you to sell upgrades to every PC that walks out the door, you deserve to go out of business. Sorry, but your negative margin isn't my concern.

Re:Its the employees

[Sj0]

This is a bit off-topic, but marketing has totally ruined word-of-mouth.

Ten years, I'd see all these posts like yours saying "There are some unscrupulous employees but corporate is great", and I'd be saying "Ok, there isn't a problem here". Today, I'm saying "Gee, I wonder if these are people paid to say this by a marketing company?"

I wonder if companies realise the damage their unethical tactics are doing to genuine grassroots support?

Re:Its the employees

[Sj0]

I'm not talking about this particular instance. Thanks to unscrupulous marketers, I've got to question every single instance where a seemingly large group of people come forward to defend a company's actions.

Frankly, y'all are spoiled by having these stores around. If *I* want to buy a computer, I've got to drive 16 hours round trip, consume almost 200 dollars of gasoline, and find a place to stay for the night. Compared to that, having to say "No, I don't want the service plan, thanks" is a minor annoyance.