Slashdot Mirror
Worlds.com To Extend Virtual World Lawsuit To Second Life, WoW
FiveRings writes "BusinessInsider has a story about Worlds.com, a company that inherited the patent on virtual worlds from the Starlight Starbright Foundation and is taking it to court against NCSoft over the company's various MMOs. If successful, he will press on and sue the makers of Second Life and World of Warcraft as well. The article notes that the NCSoft case is being held in east Texas, which has been a favorable venue for patent trolls in the past."
wow. i'd hate to be on the wrong end of the World of Warcraft legal team they'll hire to burn these trolls into the pavement.
I'm going to sue God because I came up with the concept of 4-dimensional space-time.
Someone needs to patent the patent troll business model and sue this guy for infringement.
Are they +5 armor Patent Trolls?
do these guys have anything at all to do with Ron Britvich? He could, conceivably, have some non-virtual ground to stand on.
Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
Blizzard makes a few handy billion per year. I imagine they could front a defense that would make the SCO epic look like a parking infringement notice.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
He might want to press on and sue Blizzard for WoW, but I imagine both they and Sony will have plenty to say at this initial case. Hopefully when this fails it destroys Worlds.com in the process.
I also hope that they'll get burned into the pavement. I understand the importance of wanting to have patents for intellectual property. However, I think you should only be able to apply for patents AFTER you have created some kind of working implementation of your idea. All these broad patents are just political bull dust.
Already been done.
United States Patent Application - 20080270152 - October 30, 2008
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20080270152&OS=20080270152&RS=20080270152
Patent Acquisition and Assertion by a (Non-Inventor) First Party Against a Second Party
Abstract
Methods for a first party to acquire and assert a patent property against a second party are disclosed. The methods include obtaining an equity interest in the patent property. The methods further include writing a claim within the scope of the patent property. The claim is written to cover a product of the second party where the product includes a secret aspect. The methods further include filing the claim with a patent office. The methods sometimes include offering a license of the patent property to the second party after the patent property issues as a patent with the claim. The methods sometimes include asserting infringement of the claim by the second party after the patent property issues as a patent with the claim. The methods sometimes include negotiating a cross-license with the second party based on the assertion of infringement of the claim, where under the cross-license the first party obtains a license to an intellectual property right from the second party. The methods sometime include attempting to obtain a monetary settlement from the second party based on the assertion of infringement of the claim.
hardcores kick the brains outta the litigants and their attorneys in the first chance they get.
Read radical news here
IANAL, but I can't see where rattling your saber at a couple of big dogs while suing the small fish isn't begging to have some timely amicus briefs filed by the opposition.
I'm pretty sure that's why the more successful patent trolls get a bunch of smaller cases on the books as precedent before going after the guys with real money.
Imagine this happening to WoW. Now, imagine Blizzard deciding to say "ok, we'll withdraw from the US market. Btw, dear folks who have been playing for 5+ years now and lose everything that's dear to you, THIS is the company that made us shut down. Maybe you find something creative to do with your life".
Who said mob rule has to be a bad thing?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Patent filed in Aug 3 2000. Prior art in the form of launched MMORPGs: Dec 31 1996 The Realm Online Sep 30 1997 Ultima Online Sep ?? 1998 Lineage: The Blood Pledge Mar 16 1999 Everquest Oct 31 1999 Asheron's Call Source: http://www.mmogchart.com/analysis-and-conclusions/
Anyone gone to StarbrightWorlds website (http://www.starbrightworld.org) and seen who sponsors the project at the moment?
Big logo on the left hand side saying Vivendi...
So let me get this straight, Worlds.com are using money from Vivendi to sue WoW made by Blizzard which is part of Activision which is part of Vivendi. If I was Vivendi I would withdraw my sponsorship/funding right about now.
Neuromancer 1982
Tron 1982
A Dream of Wessex 1977
http://michaelsmith.id.au
and its a book published in 1991-2 :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash
I thought I had stumbled into another gamer's nightmare (I have them often)....
Lead Attorney for the Plaintiff: Your Honor, I intend to prove that NCSoft has intentionally, and willfully, violated the....
Lead Attorney for NCSoft: FUCK YOU!!
Lead Attorney for the Plaintiff: Your Honor! I must strenuously object!
Your Honor: Fuck you!
It seems one man's nightmare can be another man's wetdream......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_(AOL_game)
Neverwinter Nights, the first graphical MMORPG, had all the elements most modern ones have (though far cruder of course), ran from 1991 to 1997.
There are, of course MUD's far older than that which were persistent worlds.
Corporatism != Free Market
The question is, why now? Why the 2 biggest video game company? You can see here what money means to the world, for sure they want to have some warcraft gold - a profit share from Blizzard... With the number of subscribers, think about it. . how much money it is.
This is from worlds.com news page..
May 19, 2008, the pioneer platform in 3D virtual communities announced today the appointment of a new non-executive board member; Thomas Duterme. Mr. Duterme is currently a New Business Development Manager who assesses new business opportunities at Google. Joining Worlds' board, it is expected that he will help to drive the expansion of the Company's pioneering patented 3D technology.
Neverwinter Nights, the first graphical MMORPG, had all the elements most modern ones have (though far cruder of course), ran from 1991 to 1997.
Except the ability to look up at the sky.
This lends so much to the idea that some things should have never been patentable in the first place. personally, virtual worlds seems like an obvious concept. hell, if you want to get picky, every fiction author creates one in one sense or another. burn down our patent system and build a new one.
I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
Reading their patent claims, they're patent is VERY broad and IMO pretty obvious.
It's basically saying that the client passes avatar location and heading to the server, and the server passes the info on all other nearby characters back to the clients. Thinking about the problem for a couple seconds, you should be able to determine that it MUST work this way.
Any MMO game with a central server pretty much has no option other to work this way.
------
End software patents!
http://www.wowwiki.com/Shiny_Bauble Looks like they're fishing for money, they may need this.. Blizzard has deep pockets.
Yes, MUDs are c.1986 or so. However, the patent in question specifies 3D graphics, so MUDs per se are not prior art. They should be...I mean, I am sure I am not the only one reading Slashdot who frittered away thousands of hours on Epic and Bigboy at the end of the 80s, and more than once thinking "I wonder if there's a way for this kind of game to have graphics?" That idea probably occurred to huge numbers of MUD nerds a huge number of times. It can hardly be called an original idea by the time 2000 rolled around.
Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
Anyone that has proof worlds.com is wrong can make 50,000! Details are here http://www.businessinsider.com/2009/1/50000-reward-offered-for-proof-worldscom-patent-lawsuit-is-bogus
The earliest virtual worlds I remember were described in Vernor Vinge's "True Names" and William Gibson's "Neuromancer" Don't these count as prior art? How about that silly game Adventure, sure it was only one user when I first saw it but it had other characters and action. How about email lists? Those are multi-user virtual worlds. They have their own community, libraries, written and unwritten rules. Seems like the culture itself has produced sufficient prior art to make the patent absurd.
Worlds.com (or worlds.net) isn't a patent troll, like Caldera (who bought SCO before they started suing).
I remember participating in Worlds.com back in 1996. How many of your precious 3D MMO environments existed then?
http://web.archive.org/web/19961108105356/www.worlds.net/news/press_releases/press-101.html
I think many of you are reacting emotionally to any threat against your favorite current games. But please do a little research before the name calling. As much as I disagree with intellectual property and software patents, this one is at least slightly more legitimate than most.
Compuserve had MMO games back in the '80's. Islands of Kesmai was an RPG. It was ASCII based, but otherwise quite recognizable as a member of the the MMORPG genre.
Holding the case in East Texas? Check.
Sat on the patent for at least five years? Check.
Suing over a patent that is obvious enough for multiple entities to independently and simultaneously develop? Check.
Testing the waters with the little guys first? Check.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck. Or in this case patent troll.
How much was your check for astroturfing?
Yes, and maybe beat sentence structure and grammar into the guys behind Worlds.com
Picture very related.
Sounds like some crappy rip-off of a particular Disney animation.
Screw skies, who needs them anyway?
Throwing water at people and burning trees with electricity then forcing humans to come up with names for both!
Don't get me started on those flying demons.
I like it when companies pursuing litigation of this sort try to attack the largest companies first. Know why? Small companies will often have to settle because they can't afford to fight the suit. Once you sue the two largest vendors, suddenly there is a whole lot of money behind the defense. With Blizzard now part of the lawsuit, I suspect Worlds.com is gonna get beat down in the court room. Even if they are not, it won't be just because the defendents didn't have enough money to mount a defense. If they win, it is more likely that there was some kind of legal merit to their suit (not necessarily guaranteed, mind you, but at least the case should be rigorously challenged by decent defense lawyers).
Holding the case in East Texas? Check.
So anyone suing over an alleged patent violation is automatically a "troll"?
Sat on the patent for at least five years? Check.
They were actively using and advancing the technology involved, I wouldn't call this "sitting on it".
Suing over a patent that is obvious enough for multiple entities to independently and simultaneously develop? Check.
I agree that most patents are bullshit for this reason. I don't know that this one is. It's easy to say after the fact, but the company doing the suing in the case is at least the first one I personally came across with the product described, making prior art a little harder to argue.
Testing the waters with the little guys first? Check.
I'll admit I don't know the legal history here, but going after the low hanging fruit first makes sense in every business I've seen. It also doesn't make the claim any less legitimate.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck. Or in this case patent troll.
How much was your check for astroturfing?
Silliness and name calling? I think I addressed this in my first post. I don't even know what the term astroturfing means and it doesn't sound important enough to look up. I hate all software patents. I hate patents in general, and copyright and trademarks. All I'm saying is that I see software companies in the news, suing each other every day, and this is the only time where the example I've seen appears to actually be the first person to try to sell the product suing other companies that are making money off of the same idea years later. I would save the term "patent troll" for the companies that do nothing but buy patents or buy old companies that come with intellectual property for the sole reason of suing other companies. Those type of companies contribute nothing to the field and hurt innovation without even trying to pretend that the patent system ever helped it.
As a hobbyist game developer, this pisses me off and scares the shit out of me at the same time. If I were to ever try to join a small indie game company, or start one of my own, I would feel like every little feature, concept, algorithm, or artwork I add to a game could infringe on some vague bullshit patent, even if I came up with the idea on my own. It's assholes like these that are subduing ideas and the chances of new companies to enter the market. Fuck them.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
I would argue that text based MMO/MUD's would count as prior art, for they did indeed have graphics (ASCII art FTW!) And that going 3D represented a glaringly obvious step once the hardware to support it was widely available. when you only had 32 mb of ram polygons were a pipe dream, but still the dream was there.
East Texas is patent troll central. If you need a judge that's going to side in favor of the troll, you get the case heard there. If it was a legit claim it would have been heard elsewhere.
They got the patent in 2000. The companies they are suing released their products years later. If they weren't a troll, they'd have brought it up as the projects were announced publicly or shortly after being released. Trolls wait until their victims have money and a reason to pay.
Why go after a game with ~200k subscribers when there's an even bigger infringer with 12 million subscribers? Unless you really don't have a case and you need to set precedent so a competent judge won't personally dropkick you out of the courtroom, that's why you go after the small fries first. If they had a solid case they'd be able to force Blizzard and Sony into a settlement that would be larger than all the combined assets of NCSoft.
And apparently I've found the only slashdotter with a six digit ID that doesn't know what astroturfing means and who can't be bothered to go hit up wikipedia. Either that or the check must have been worth trashing such a low ID.
Of course they go after financially hurting NCSoft to try and establish a precedent before going after the Blizzard Juggernaut. Cowards.
Thanks for taking the time to explain. That's an interesting thing to know about Texas.
In regards to wikipedia and not keeping current with the most fashionable ad hominem attacks, I don't mind not representing the majority on slashdot. The general quality of the comments hasn't been increasing over the last 10 years. Most of the time I stick to the headlines and links.
Do all of your posts end with an attempted insult?
Don't forget The Shadow of Yserbius which was on The Sierra Network/TSN. This was around in 1992.
In May 1996, Ultima Online: Shattered Legacy is shown at the 1996 E3 Expo. ultima online had "2d" graphics but is a 3d game (it has x y and z coordinates)