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Intel CPU Privilege Escalation Exploit

Eukariote writes "A paper and exploit code detailing a privilege escalation attack on Intel CPUs has just been published. The vulnerability, uncovered by security researchers Joanna Rutkowska (of Blue Pill fame), Rafal Wojtczuk, and, independently, Loic Duflot, makes use of Intel's System Management Mode (SMM). Quote: "The attack allows for privilege escalation from Ring 0 to the SMM on many recent motherboards with Intel CPUs. Rafal implemented a working exploit with code execution in SMM." The implications of this exploit are severe."

242 comments

  1. And thus does the dance continue... by downix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The dance between malware writers and the security experts seeking to thwart them continues ever on.

    --
    Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
    1. Re:And thus does the dance continue... by maxume · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hopefully this guy is playing for the good guys:

      http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2934

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:And thus does the dance continue... by hardwarefreak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The dance between malware writers and the security experts seeking to thwart them continues ever on.

      Yeah, except this exploit method allows the defenders to pretty easily slam the dance partner to the floor.

      Simple defeat method:

      BIOS coders write in a checksum routine that runs at system initialization time. The routine checks the board maker's original (i.e. known good) BIOS file size on the flash device against the current used spaced on the device upon every boot. If the checksum routine finds that the used space on the flash device has changed, set off bright red alarms and noises. Obviously this is a *per rev* size, so each new BIOS update offered by the board maker will include the proper size check and checksum code. Thus, flashing your mobo with an update having a different file size won't set off the alarms, but unauthorized changes to the used space on the flash chip will set off the alarms.

      To defeat this countermeasure, the exploit coder is actually going to have to rewrite part of the original BIOS to defeat the checksum process along with burning their own extra code in the empty space.

      This seems like pretty simple stuff. The problem would be non-l337 mobo owners who ignore the alarm for a myriad of stupid reasons, as with many lusers who ignore problems on their PC until it's 'too late'. For the rest of us, this should be a sufficient countermeasure.

    3. Re:And thus does the dance continue... by garaged · · Score: 1

      MD5 checksum isn't it ?

      --
      I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
  2. Ouch by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 5, Funny

    This could make the apple bricking patch look like a kindergarten party

    --

    Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    1. Re:Ouch by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just consider a malware that replaces the PC BIOS with it's own code. Sure it may brick a few, but it may also be a new interesting level of malware.

      Write-protect your BIOS:es and you can be a bit safer.

      Another interesting thing is that this may be a way around the TPM chip and other copy-protection techniques too.

      And beware of special bioses from manufacturers that allows your employer to run keylogging!

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:Ouch by Jurily · · Score: 1

      This could make the apple bricking patch look like a kindergarten party

      What's even worse: I have one of these.

    3. Re:Ouch by Molochi · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think this bypasses bios write protection unless you still have a motherboard that uses a jumper for this. None of mine do.

      Could be used as a force for good, true.

      --
      "The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"
    4. Re:Ouch by Knara · · Score: 4, Funny

      A kindergarten party?

    5. Re:Ouch by machine321 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I was on the apple bricking patch for a while, it really helped me quit apple bricking.

    6. Re:Ouch by Molochi · · Score: 1

      NM, it doesn't go after bios.

      --
      "The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"
    7. Re:Ouch by bytesex · · Score: 1

      Oh ? I had to chew bricks.

      --
      Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
    8. Re:Ouch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just consider a malware that replaces the PC BIOS with it's own code. Sure it may brick a few, but it may also be a new interesting level of malware.

      Write-protect your BIOS:es and you can be a bit safer.

      Another interesting thing is that this may be a way around the TPM chip and other copy-protection techniques too.

      And beware of special bioses from manufacturers that allows your employer to run keylogging!

      I'm surprised we haven't seen that yet ( malware overwriting system bio's ).
      Seems like there was a home router flash attack published not too long ago.

    9. Re:Ouch by lsatenstein · · Score: 0

      Worse then changing the bios, all CPUs have a trap door that allows redefining some cpu instructions. This redefinition is a vendor method of fixing early versions of a CPU model. We call it microcode for the micro processor. So, it is possible with that facility, to change a secure instruction to an insecure one. Big leak.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  3. CD Boot by Baldrson · · Score: 4, Funny
    TFA: The malware code takes over a PC with little or no recourse to remove it.

    Haven't these guys ever booted from a CD?

    1. Re:CD Boot by adonoman · · Score: 4, Informative

      You're assuming that the rootkit isn't loaded before the bios tries booting off the CD.

    2. Re:CD Boot by CannonballHead · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, really. It takes it over! You can't even come within 5 feet of the case, the malware pushes you back!

    3. Re:CD Boot by I.M.O.G. · · Score: 5, Informative

      Haven't these guys ever booted from a CD?

      While you succeed at being snarky, you fail at being correct. Assuming the article is credible and accurate, it explains why booting from a CD won't save you:

      By design, the operating system cannot override or disable System Management Interupt (SMI) calls. In practice, the only way for you to know what is running in SMM space is to physically disassemble the firmware of your computer. So, given that an SMI takes precedence over any OS call, the OS cannot control or read SMM, and the only way to read SMM is to disassemble the system makes an SMM rootkit incredibly stealthy!

      Now with that said judging by the authors language at networkworld he likely doesn't fully understand whats going on - he uses words like "powned" and "the PC is living in the matrix", whatever the fuck that means! I'll reserve my judgement on this until I read more from someone that owns a clue.

    4. Re:CD Boot by InsertWittyNameHere · · Score: 1

      From the article:

      "Rutkowska and Wojtczuk claim they found a method to bypass the system-level protection, allowing them to create a rootkit that installs in the SMM space."

      Does this mean that even if you boot up from a CD (or format) the malware will still be there?

    5. Re:CD Boot by vadim_t · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And you fail at understanding.

      The exploit talks about modifying SMRAM. It's done with root level access on the computer. And in my understanding, the effect is not permanent, since you're changing RAM. Reboot, and it'll be gone.

      Now, once it's there, the OS can't have an antivirus scan that memory area. But that's it. If this thing persists across reboots, something has to put it back into the SMRAM, and you could find that something by booting a scanner from a CD, or reformatting the computer.

      I don't see this as a particularly scary thing. Yes, it's nasty. But a virus could also disable antiviruses and patch the kernel to hide its presence for the same effect.

      This is the same scaremongering as with the virtualization virus. Yes, it's a new way a virus can use to hide. But it's absolutely nothing new. Under DOS, viruses would trap DOS calls, and remove themselves from opened files, so that an antivirus trying to scan the file would see an uninfected one. Boot from a floppy, and none of that trickery will be active.

    6. Re:CD Boot by vadim_t · · Score: 3, Informative

      My understanding is that "SMM space" refers to an area of memory even the OS kernel can't access, but doesn't mean it's anything that persists across reboots.

      If I got it correctly, an userspace app can't write to kernel memory, and the kernel can't write to SMM memory, but it's RAM all the same, and located on the RAM modules plugged into the motherboard and not any particularly special place.

    7. Re:CD Boot by antifoidulus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While you succeed at being snarky, you fail at being correct.

      Dude, I think you came up with a new motto for slashdot!

    8. Re:CD Boot by l3ert · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'll reserve my judgement on this until I read more from someone that owns a clue.

      I assume you meant "powns a clue".

      --
      per dolorem ad astra
    9. Re:CD Boot by kheldan · · Score: 2, Interesting
      There are two things that aren't clear from the article:
      1. Does this include ALL x86 chips (i.e., AMD chips) or just pure Intel chips?
      2. If the SMM firmware is in the BIOS Flash ROM, does/can malware actually overwrite your BIOS, thus making itself more-or-less permanent (save for physically removing/replacing the BIOS ROM chip)?

      BTW if #2 is true, then it really is a huge threat -- and we'd all be better off going back to EPROMs and ditching the ISP flash ROMs, or at least having some sort of hardware read-only switch or jumper on motherboards limiting access to overwriting flash ROMs.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    10. Re:CD Boot by Baldrson · · Score: 1

      Its interesting that the hardware would be designed so that the firmware has no real control over itself. Where do they get these guys?

    11. Re:CD Boot by Joeyspecial · · Score: 1

      I'll reserve my judgement on this until I read more from someone that owns a clue.

      I think you mean powns a clue.

    12. Re:CD Boot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, this IS new in that it's using a low-level exploit that previously wasn't known.

      Also, the virus could use a commonly available BIOS utility to flash malware into the cmos.
      Much, much more insidious than a traditional file-based root. Then it's there on every boot.

      How exactly would you even KNOW you were infected by a BIOS-based kit? That's the question.

      I take particular (if momentary) satisfaction in owning ONLY AMD based platforms.

      I'm sure there will be some exploit or another for them someday, but for now... it's fanboy gravy.

    13. Re:CD Boot by I.M.O.G. · · Score: 1

      If you go thru the trouble of performing an SMM exploit you are already tailoring your attack to specific hardware. At that point, it would be silly not to also write your code to firmware so that its persistent.

      So while theoretically you could find the bug by using a bootable CD and a scanning utility, that wouldn't be a likely situation in practice.

    14. Re:CD Boot by jd · · Score: 1

      If someone has finally produced a rootkit that sits in the BIOS (and why not?), then yes, this would indeed be possible. All you need to do is upload into the Flash memory a stage loader where the first stage is the malware and the second stage is the "proper" BIOS.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    15. Re:CD Boot by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Informative

      Also, the virus could use a commonly available BIOS utility to flash malware into the cmos. Much, much more insidious than a traditional file-based root. Then it's there on every boot.

      AFAIK, it can do that from Ring 0, too. About all SM mode does is allow you to temporarily inject yourself under the kernel in an undetectable way for a single boot; if you don't delete yourself from disk, you can still be detected by virus scanners and deleted, at which point your code would go away on the next boot... unless you start sniffing disk block writes and try to hide your files from the virus scanner. Either way, AFAICT, a cold boot from a recovery disk can clean up anything you could do in SM mode that you couldn't do from ring 0.

      These attacks have been around for a while. Here's an article about an attack that obtains SMM access (from user space code in that case) from way back in 2006. The only thing that's new is that this is a new/different way to get into SM mode.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    16. Re:CD Boot by MumbleStumbleGrumble · · Score: 1

      The exploit talks about modifying SMRAM. It's done with root level access on the computer. And in my understanding, the effect is not permanent, since you're changing RAM. Reboot, and it'll be gone.

      Really?? As I understand RAM memory dynamic RAM works as you describe but not static RAM. Which is SMIRAM?

    17. Re:CD Boot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If the bios is compromised, then this won't help.

      It is the bios that loads the boot sector.

      This is worrisome...

    18. Re:CD Boot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      1. Neither. It applies to "recent" intel cpu and hipset combos. No idea which or how recent. i7 is most recent but core2 based systems running on intel chipsets would be most likely targeted.

    19. Re:CD Boot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      2. It doesn't do this. Though if you've ever run a bios/firmware flash in windows and did not afterwards disable this capability in bios your system is already exposed to any old installer you run.

    20. Re:CD Boot by geekgirlandrea · · Score: 1

      You're thinking of SRAM, which doesn't need a refresh cycle, but which does lose its contents without power. SMRAM is an alternate address space on 386SL and newer Intel processors; when the processor executes code in System Management Mode (accessed by triggering a System Management Interrupt in hardware), it asserts a special signal and the hardware makes all memory references go to SMRAM instead of the normal memory. This rootkit works by exploiting a caching bug to write into SMRAM when not in SMM.

    21. Re:CD Boot by The_Wilschon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There must be something I'm not understanding here. GP says "Bug can put itself into BIOS, so it's there every time you boot (and before your rescue disk would even get read)". You say "Yeah, but that's nothing new. What's new is that once this thing has run itself, it can slip under the OS and make itself undetectable by the OS".

      Looks to me as though this would in fact mean that a recovery disk would not help you. A recovery disk would merely boot an OS, just like booting from your hard disk boots an OS. If the SMM escalation code is in your BIOS, and gets executed before any OS gets booted, and once executed is undetectable by any OS, how exactly is a recovery disk going to help you?

      In short, you quote GP: "Then it's there on every boot". Then you say "Yeah. But it's only there on a single boot". Which one is it?

      --
      SIGSEGV caught, terminating

      wait... not that kind of sig.
    22. Re:CD Boot by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      There are are two ways of hiding data under the OS (well, three if you count hypervisors). One is permanent (writing to the BIOS) and one is not (running code in SM mode). Code executing in SM mode goes away unless reloaded on the next boot. If you can get to ring 0 (top ring in kernel mode) then you could already write to BIOS and add stuff permanently under the OS. Doing an SM mode escalation from ring 0 merely buys you the ability to inject something under the OS in a temporary (single boot) way without modifying BIOS. If your goal is to modify BIOS, then AFAIK there's no reason to bother jumping to SM mode because you can do that without needing to do the SMM escalation.

      I could easily be wrong about being able to write to BIOS from ring 0---I'm pretty sure it can be done, but not 100% positive---I've never written a BIOS flasher.... It is also possible that this might somehow allow you to undo soft write protection of the BIOS, in which case there is an advantage, albeit a small and highly device-specific advantage.... That said, I don't think this is nearly as big an opening as people make it out to be. It's like somebody giving you the key to an individual safe deposit box when you've already broken into the bank, have broken into the safe, and are currently carrying a hatchet. For the most part, ring 0 rules all under its domain, and once bad code is running there, you're screwed.

      The hole a couple of years ago where you could get into SM mode from ring 2... that was a big deal. This... might have some impact on security between virtual hosts running on a single server under a hypervisor, but as far as single-user machines are concerned, it seems like small potatoes by comparison.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    23. Re:CD Boot by Simetrical · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that the rootkit isn't loaded before the bios tries booting off the CD.

      So reset the BIOS.

      --
      MediaWiki developer, Total War Center sysadmin
    24. Re:CD Boot by snemarch · · Score: 1

      The thing you're missing, though, is the additional power SMM gives... the ability to trap to SMM code on port I/O, for instance. So if you manage to flash your malware into the BIOS, you can then use your SMM exploit to protect against BIOS re-flashing.

      --
      Coffee-driven development.
    25. Re:CD Boot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      you modify BIOS, store a loader in there, load your code back in SMM space before the floppy/disc drives are accessed.

    26. Re:CD Boot by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      You typically don't need access to SMM to write to the BIOS.

      On the other hand, BIOS attacks aren't very portable. Something that compromises one machine will brick another.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    27. Re:CD Boot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While you succeed at being snarky, you fail at being correct.

    28. Re:CD Boot by hawk · · Score: 1

      OK, this is why the dissipation of waste computer electricity by bay mount gauss guns and laser defense systems that I suggested a few minutes ago is a bad idea . . . :)

      hawk

  4. Yikes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is *not* good.

  5. But more importantly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... Joanna Rutkowska is hot!

    1. Re:But more importantly... by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 1, Funny

      are you kidding? she looks like Q ;)

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    2. Re:But more importantly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a much better picture, but yes.. she is cute.

    3. Re:But more importantly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is an even better picture. But it's not Joanna.

    4. Re:But more importantly... by u38cg · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I know I shouldn't, but this one is too good to pass up. Look out, it's a trap.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    5. Re:But more importantly... by dotancohen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think some of you people haven't been outside in so long that you've degenerated into finding ANY woman attractive.

      Hole and a heartbeat. It's never failed me.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    6. Re:But more importantly... by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      Is that the part right before she stabs herself in the throat with her bare hand while unbuttoning her blouse and making airplane noises? I love that trick!

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    7. Re:But more importantly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But she has a chin like a bare bum.

    8. Re:But more importantly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ahem.

      http://xkcd.com/322/

    9. Re:But more importantly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the full list of evidence is here - http://www.rutkowska.yoyo.pl/

    10. Re:But more importantly... by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      Or maybe it's a man who decided to have sex reassignment surgery.

      Though I fail what relevance does that have to security research. There's something with a working brain finding security issues. Whether it's a man, woman, woman that used to be a man, a dog or a machine seems very unimportant to me.

    11. Re:But more importantly... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Damn, you slashdotted zdnet!

    12. Re:But more importantly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      are you kidding? she looks like Q ;)

      That's an astonishingly simplistic rendition of Q. It looks like it was made from two overlapping circles and he looks like he's fallen over. Or maybe he was trying to squeeze in past all that "Image Hosted by Tripod" crap?

    13. Re:But more importantly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is an even better picture. But it's not Joanna.

      Hey, that girl is in a bunch of music videos and one of those surreal AXE commercials. There is even a weird sort of commercial for HP where she gets jumped by Shaun White.

    14. Re:But more importantly... by snemarch · · Score: 1

      Might want to grab a picture of him before his sex-change operation, then you probably wouldn't be fapping right now :)

      --
      Coffee-driven development.
    15. Re:But more importantly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck yeah! Check out this shot of her and her disdain for zitface.

    16. Re:But more importantly... by syousef · · Score: 1

      ... Joanna Rutkowska is hot!

      That'll happen when you wear a trench coat in summer.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  6. Easy workaround by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Run all code on a 286 or below.

    1. Re:Easy workaround by teknopurge · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your lulz make my Sparcstation weep....

  7. Wait, what? by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wait... You have to get your code running in ring 0 and then you can do anything you could do with ring 0 access? Wow. Quite an exploit. -_- And a reboot removes the code.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the OS can't see or access SMM how does this get installed there in the first place?

    2. Re:Wait, what? by vally_manea · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but what if you are running this code in a VM? Then it's not so funny. Also from what I have read you can't really detect it, because the OS isn't aware when the CPU is running the SMM code.

    3. Re:Wait, what? by Darth+Liberus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, this reminds me of the "Windows XP's Raw Sockets will destroy the Internet!" hype.

      --
      Beauty is just a light switch away.
    4. Re:Wait, what? by Molochi · · Score: 3, Informative

      The exploit allows access from Ring to SMM? Summary is confusing but I think we're talking about an exploit that can write to bios even with flashing disabled at the bios level.

      --
      "The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"
    5. Re:Wait, what? by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It might be more accurate to say the OS does not manage or provide services for the SMM. Any code executing in the OS with sufficient access rights can make "unsafe" calls to trigger SMM events, or to any other hardware device in the system. The OS only recognizes the SMM to the point of saying "If you don't finish what you're doing within N clock ticks, I'll crash", and then it syncs with the clock upon the SMM releasing control back to the OSS. If it exceeded that timeframe, the OS simply throws its hands in the air and says "Frack you." Anything loaded into the SMM would have to be very compact, and would be incidentally detectable much the same way software can detect when it is running in a VM -- by looking for delays.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    6. Re:Wait, what? by Molochi · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it looks like access to SSM gives elevated privilages over kernal (ring 0).

      http://www.rcollins.org/ddj/Jan97/Jan97.html

      --
      "The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"
    7. Re:Wait, what? by anss123 · · Score: 1

      The exploit allows access from Ring to SMM? Summary is confusing but I think we're talking about an exploit that can write to bios even with flashing disabled at the bios level.

      Not really. SMM is a mode that's normally the BIOS's playground. There may be SMM code that prevents BIOS flashing which this exploit could be used to circumvent, but this exploit does not flash the BIOS.

    8. Re:Wait, what? by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Overriding SMM functions (which appears to be what they're doing here) is not actually a function that's intended to be accessible from ring zero.

      So no, you get your code running in ring zero and then you can do something that you shouldn't be able to do with ring zero access.

    9. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, this reminds me of the "Windows XP's Raw Sockets will destroy the Internet!" hype.

      Are you actually going to claim that without raw sockets on XP the internet wouldn't be a lot safer?

      Without raw sockets it would cut down the number of zombie bots.

    10. Re:Wait, what? by Curate · · Score: 1

      Yes that was funny. What ever happened to Gibson's original article? I looked around on grc.com but couldn't find it. It used to be at http://grc.com/dos/winxp.htm.

    11. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ummmm botnets?

    12. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firstly, SMM is actually a processor mode. A bit like "Ring 0" and "Ring 3" - in this case, it's more "Ring -1" - completely and utterlly invisible to any operating system/hypervisor running on the processor. It has its own, dedicated, section of physical ram (from memory; I think the chipset carves off the space.)

      Anyway, it's usually set-up by the BIOS prior to the OS loading in the first place; in conjunction with the chipset triggering SMM mode. (There's actually a pin on the processor that causes the entry to SMM mode; there's no real software way into it.)

      Honestly, SMM mode is for lazy motherboard designers that want to use the processor for tasks that they cannot be bothered writing code for themselves or including another chip or something. Stick an 8052 or something on the motherboard for all the SMM tasks, if you aske me.

      SMM mode is under the assumption that the motherboard designers are better programmers than the OS programmers. In my experience, they're not.

      (Antother commenter suggests SMM mode is used to emulate hardware - things like a soft-modem and suchlike that should be fully independant hardware but actually is mostly a program that runs on your CPU and there's nothing the OS can do about it. Like a winmodem; but beyond ALL OS control. SMM is not entirely unlike 'ring -1'.)

      SMM is completely unnecessary. It's only a cost-saving measure.

    13. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, 'cause I'll take fucking advice from someone who thinks their computer has a "kernal". God damn retard. Slashdot sure has gone downhill. Why don't you all go fuck off to digg.com?

  8. Doesn't seem that scary by vadim_t · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the PDF:

    Below we describe how to exploit cache poisoning to get access to the SMRAM memory. We assume that the attacker has access to certain platform MSR registers. In practice this is equivalent to the attacker having administrator privileges on the target system, and on some systems, like e.g. Windows, also the ability to load and execute arbitrary kernel code.

    If they can do that, your box is rooted already. The only difference seems to be that in this way it can hide in a place where the OS can't get at it. But IMO, if you're compromised you can't count on the compromised OS being able to remove everything malicious anyway.

    1. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by anss123 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If they can do that, your box is rooted already. The only difference seems to be that in this way it can hide in a place where the OS can't get at it. But IMO, if you're compromised you can't count on the compromised OS being able to remove everything malicious anyway.

      IOW it's like the Blue Pill rootkit except possibly harder to get rid off/detect if you get infected and no need for AMD-V/VT-x support in the CPU.

    2. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's much worse, when combined with a firmware re-write, it will survive a complete re-install and cannot be detected by a security scan booted from CDROM.

    3. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference here is that even if you wipe the hard drive the rootkit is STILL there.

    4. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      Well, and why would the firmware allow a rewrite?

      My motherboard seems to be on the right track -- it's possible to flash the BIOS from the BIOS. So there's no need to allow write access at any other moment.

      Motherboards seem to come configured to forbid flashing by default, too.

    5. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by vadim_t · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The difference here is that even if you wipe the hard drive the rootkit is STILL there.

      Where does it say that? I read the PDF, it talks about modifying RAM. RAM is cleared after a reboot.

    6. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by anss123 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's much worse, when combined with a firmware re-write, it will survive a complete re-install and cannot be detected by a security scan booted from CDROM.

      This is true even without the SMM exploit.

    7. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they can do that, your box is rooted already. The only difference seems to be that in this way it can hide in a place where the OS can't get at it. But IMO, if you're compromised you can't count on the compromised OS being able to remove everything malicious anyway.

      A silly statement. Of course I want to be able to remove everything without throwing the chip away. Did you actually read the paper carefully? It's impossible to tell what is running in SMM and so you can never remove or know that the exploit even exists on your chip. Well, unless you want to physically look at the firmware on it with a probe.

    8. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by vadim_t · · Score: 0

      A silly statement. Of course I want to be able to remove everything without throwing the chip away. Did you actually read the paper carefully? It's impossible to tell what is running in SMM and so you can never remove or know that the exploit even exists on your chip. Well, unless you want to physically look at the firmware on it with a probe.

      I read it, and my understanding is different from that of your. Here's mine:

      At boot time (probably) the BIOS initializes an area of RAM for SMM purposes. This area is made inaccessible to the OS. When a SM interrupt is triggered, the CPU saves state, jumps to the SMM code, does its magic, and then continues what it was doing.

      This is completely out of the OS' control, and the OS never knows when this happens, can't trigger it on its own, doesn't know what's it doing, and can't read the memory used for this. It can only hope it won't change anything under the OS that will make things break. The exploit breaks this protection and patches the code that runs in SMM.

      Nowhere I see any references to that this is anything on the chip. It's simply a higher level of access, above the OS, similar to a hypervisor. Plain normal RAM is used.

      The reaon for the reference to a logic probe is that you can't see this from within the OS, since it's less privileged and has no access or control over the SMM code. But that doesn't mean there's some magic area within the CPU that retains state. It's plain RAM, with access controls. And this trick described in the paper must be redone every time the box boots.

    9. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by Hatta · · Score: 1

      It's impossible to tell what is running in SMM and so you can never remove or know that the exploit even exists on your chip.

      This seems like an extremely stupid design choice. I imagine Intel must have had a reason, and I hope it's a lot better than protecting their trade secrets. What possible technical reason would there be to hide anything from the OS?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by sjames · · Score: 1

      The first part is, but not the second.

    11. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by anss123 · · Score: 1

      The first part is, but not the second.

      Wrong. Even without this exploit a BIOS virus can make use of VT-x (or borrow code from Virtualbox for CPUs without VT-x). SMM may be harder to detect though.

    12. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by sjames · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, and why would the firmware allow a rewrite?

      My motherboard seems to be on the right track -- it's possible to flash the BIOS from the BIOS. So there's no need to allow write access at any other moment.

      Motherboards seem to come configured to forbid flashing by default, too.

      In many cases, the BIOS manages that trick because trying to set the write enable bit in the chipset triggers an SMI. If the exploit has replaced the code that the SMI calls...

      In other cases, it's just that an undocumented GPIO line is anded with the write line on the flash. The flasher program knows which line to set or the SMI routine sets the line in response to a write to a fake register location. Often, that trick can be brute forced using the CFI ID command to the flash to determine when you've found it.

      The one and only real way to protect the flash is to have a jumper that actually disconnects the write enable line in hardware. Practically no motherboards seem to take that approach.

      Keep in mind that some network cards and disk interface cards (especially SCSI adapters) also have a flash in them. They have a boot signature so that the BIOS executes their POST routines before even considering loading a bootloader. Most of those can be re-flashed while running as well if you frob their config registers the right way.

    13. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by Marillion · · Score: 1

      I think the real implications are that an OS running under Virtualization can break out of its sandbox and attack other OS's running on the same system.

      --
      This is a boring sig
    14. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by FrankSchwab · · Score: 1

      If your BIOS knows how to rewrite FLASH, the BIOS routines can be co-opted to, well, rewrite FLASH at any time.
      The fact that the standard BIOS API doesn't provide a way to rewrite the FLASH doesn't mean that a non-standard, undocumented way to rewrite FLASH doesn't exist.
      You seem to believe that because the BIOS doesn't allow "something", that "something" can't be accomplished. I believe that code is code, and unless the BIOS was written in an extremely security conscious manner, the BIOS code to write the FLASH can be utilized without the BIOS' permission.
      Or, more simply, the Flash write code can be duplicated and used outside the BIOS. It's not rocket science.

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    15. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      Well, unlike most people in this discussion you actually seem to be informed.

      That's certainly interesting to know.

      The one and only real way to protect the flash is to have a jumper that actually disconnects the write enable line in hardware. Practically no motherboards seem to take that approach.

      Wouldn't it be pretty easy in hardware to have a line that starts in the "flash write enabled" state on boot, but once set to disabled absolutely refuses to turn back on?

    16. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by Jump · · Score: 1

      What if it writes itself in the firmware when you shutdown the computer just before rebooting, and loads itself back into the SMM during boot?
      Maybe even restoring the original firmware? To work around space limitations, the SMM code could hide another rootkit hiding on the disk and download a new copy if the system has been wiped.

    17. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      What does that matter? SMM or not, that attack is already possible

    18. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by flosofl · · Score: 1

      And this trick described in the paper must be redone every time the box boots.

      Not necessarily. From reading the paper and slides, you *can* get shellcode to execute from BIOS (there's usually *empty* space available), or perhaps the flash on network cards or really anything that's flashable and initializes pre-boot. Just stuff some code there (I know I'm trivializing the effort needed, but trust me, someone *will* figure it out).

      There's a comment earlier in this thread that talks about that possibility.

      --
      "This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" - Vyvyan "The Young Ones"
    19. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by geirnord · · Score: 1

      This also means it can escape from a Virtual Machine into the host, and also remain if it can flash the BIOS for the system. If you can write SMM assembly, I would guess you could flash the BIOS also.

      Now, all your VM are belong to us.

    20. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      Still, the utility of all this seems limited.

      If something managed to patch your BIOS, you're already screwed, no SMM trickery needed. It can already do whatever it wants when the BIOS code runs (power management?)

    21. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > What possible technical reason would there be to hide anything from the OS?

      Hardware level debugging. You can, for example, set breakpoints without altering the running code (or its state) at all.

      Looks to me like this expoit could be blocked with a soldering iron, though at the price of some functionality.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    22. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by Score+Whore · · Score: 1

      Anything is possible. The point is is does any BIOS vendor actually provide an API for doing a flash or is it just one of the options in the menus? And is it provided by the BIOS vendor (Phoenix, AMI, Intel, etc.) or is it provided by the motherboard manufacturer. And is it always in the same place and able to be spoofed the same way. Then there is the question of can you run that BIOS code from within your variously available runtime environments? Will it execute in protected mode? In x64 mode? In real mode? Under Windows? Under Solaris? Under Mac OS X?

      The reality is that a skilled person can take a machine and disassemble the BIOS to learn all these secrets. But how much of that information is usefully transferable such that you can automate your new knowledge? The general risk of someone knowing how to leverage the built-in flash routines for one specific motherboard running one specific version of the BIOS running one specific OS is pretty small.

    23. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      I'm saying this scenario is easy to protect against.

      Flash chip has a "write enable" pin. Connect that to a pin on say, the chipset. This pin would start in the "write enabled" on boot, but be implemented, on the hardware level, in such a way that once write is disabled, it can't be reenabled by any software manipulation and a complete reset is the only way.

      So, BIOS starts in "write enabled" position, does whatever BIOSes do, and turns write off before starting the OS boot.

      Then it won't matter what code is in the BIOS, you can execute it all you want, it won't write anyway.

      I don't know if any boards work this way, but it should be absolutely trivial to implement.

    24. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by flosofl · · Score: 1

      Well, really I was just addressing your question on persistence. IMHO, the real danger is being able to compromise VMMs loaded with Intel's Trusted Execution Technology. I have another comment lower down.

      --
      "This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" - Vyvyan "The Young Ones"
    25. Re:Doesn't seem that scary by sjames · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be pretty easy in hardware to have a line that starts in the "flash write enabled" state on boot, but once set to disabled absolutely refuses to turn back on?

      That could be done as long as they make darned sure that no problem fixable by a BIOS update can possibly prevent the user from telling the old BIOS to leave writes enabled for an update. It would also necessary to make sure the chip cannot be reset without also resetting the RAM or a very clever person might manage to re-enable writing without rebooting the rest of the system.

  9. Practical implications? by icydog · · Score: 1

    I don't know anything about SMM, but it sounds from TFAs that the OS can't interact with SMM. If I am understanding this correctly, then what steps must occur for me to be infected? How does the exploit load itself into my machine?

    1. Re:Practical implications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HaX0rs could turn your PC into a bomb!

    2. Re:Practical implications? by wolf12886 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Of course I didn't read TFA, but it doesn't sound like this exploit has shown up in any malware yet. At this point the potential for attack has just been demonstrated.

      A cording to some other commenters, the exploit code must run in ring 0, so you already have to be rooted for it to work. In a nutshell, this vulnerability can't be used to infect your OS in the first place, but it can potentially make detection and removal near impossible.

    3. Re:Practical implications? by flosofl · · Score: 1
      What I haven't seen noticed by anyone here, but actually discussed at length in the paper, is the danger to VMMs. This is specifically aimed at circumventing TXT (Trusted Execution Technology). Hell, the paper is called Attacking Intel's TXT. FTF Resarch Paper:

      The sole purpose of Intel TXT technology is to provide a trusted way for loading and executing system software, e.g. Operating System kernel or Virtualization Machine Monitor (VMM). This is achieved by performing software measurements and storing them in particular TPM registers. What is extraordinary here is that TXT doesn't make any assumptions about the state of the system before loading the software, thus making it possible for a user to ensure secure load of an OS or VMM, even in a potentially compromised machine.

      What they have found is way to poison this consistently and undetectably. Yes, you need Ring 0, but only for a short period of time to corrupt SMM with the custom shellcode. Now everything is completely undetectable. Plus, Ring 0 would not allow you to attack VMM that utilize TXT.

      --
      "This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" - Vyvyan "The Young Ones"
    4. Re:Practical implications? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Practical implications? How about the ability to create something that strips away DRM behind the sell-out OS's back!

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  10. Hyperbole? by anss123 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Mod this guy up.

    From Wikipedia:
    Joanna Rutkowska claims that, since any detection program could be fooled by the hypervisor, such a system would be "100% undetectable".

    Articles about this exploit are referring to this "Blue Pill" ordeal (a Matrix reference I'm guessing) which was a rootkit using AMD-V/VT-x. Hypervisors, as they're currently exists, are not 100% undetectable and that rootkits could use AMD-V was not unexpected.

    This new SMM exploit could is just an upgrade to that Blue Pill thing. Unless they manage to get into SMM from usermode I'm leaning towards "sensationalism".

    1. Re:Hyperbole? by anss123 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm an idiot. That was supposed to be a reply....

    2. Re:Hyperbole? by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      The fact that you're running in a hypervisor is only detectable by a timing attack.

      They get into SMM from kernel mode, but they modify the SMM functions, which is not something you generally can do from kernel mode.

    3. Re:Hyperbole? by TimeTraveler1884 · · Score: 1

      Articles about this exploit are referring to this "Blue Pill" ordeal (a Matrix reference I'm guessing)

      No, it's a Viagra reference; because it gives malware authors a 4hr hard-on.

  11. Time for some new Anti-virus methodologies by Well-Fed+Troll · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Guess we need to start booting from CD every time we scan for viruses?

    1. Re:Time for some new Anti-virus methodologies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That should already be standard practice.

    2. Re:Time for some new Anti-virus methodologies by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

      Totally. If you suspect a virus might be in place, you must consider that the entire system is compromised, including stealthiness.

      The best way to be sure, if you're serious about scanning everything, is to use an operating system independent of the suspected infection.

      So yeah: Boot from a CD to scan your system. Always.

    3. Re:Time for some new Anti-virus methodologies by dave562 · · Score: 1

      Booting from a clean environment to scan for viruses isn't exactly a new idea. You should be doing it already.

  12. Bricking patch look like a kindergarten party by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This could make the apple bricking patch look like a kindergarten party

    A kindergarten party in a holodeck where all the attendees turn out to be old men.

  13. Intel SMIs and SMM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Intel is extremely secretive about this kind of documentation on their processors. You barely get the bare minimum documentation when you have their Orange books.

    This is probably why it took so long to discover the problem.

    Intel has a number of really nasty micro-architecture bugs related to SMM as well... I wish they'd be more forthcoming about them so we can workaround them better.

  14. Ring of Fire by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So it says you can promote from ring0 to SMM. So I take it that's a lower level of hell?

    If you are running in ring zero doesn't that mean by definition you are completely trusted anyhow?

    Or is the vision something like you enter your root password to install the cheeze-whiz app and the mal ware not only installs the code but escalates itself above the operating system.

    I think I'm not getting it.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Ring of Fire by geckipede · · Score: 2, Funny

      if you're on vulnerable hardware, once some malware that uses this trick has gained root, nothing short of physically setting fire to the motherboard will clean it. Reinstalling from scratch can't help you.

    2. Re:Ring of Fire by geckipede · · Score: 1

      Er... no, I'm talking nonsense there apparently. Reading incompetence on my part.

    3. Re:Ring of Fire by Barsteward · · Score: 1, Funny

      "If you are running in ring zero..."

      No-one is going to running in my ring 0 unless they pay a million or two

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    4. Re:Ring of Fire by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      root's magic powers don't come from running at a different ring level, they come from the OS checking the uid/euid. VT/V work by creating a ring -1 which is where the hypervisor runs. This exploit would let a kernel module or other kernel code to jump into the hypervisor level.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    5. Re:Ring of Fire by blueg3 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, as I recall, the hypervisors run in ring 0 and generally push the kernel up to ring 1.

      Anyway, jumping to the hypervisor level is Blue Pill, by the same people. That was a few years ago. This is actually jumping to a lower level (below that of the hypervisor).

      If you're playing the rootkit versus rootkit detection / prevention game, attacking a lower level than your opponent is powerful. A rootkit detector in the hypervisor has an enormous advantage over a rootkit in a VM, and vice versa. A rootkit at the SMM level has an enormous advantage over rootkit detectors at the kernel or hypervisor levels -- which is the lowest easily-accessible level.

      Note that these guys did propose a solution in the same talk they presenting this problem.

    6. Re:Ring of Fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can desolder the SMM chip and reprogram it manually. Besides that, sounds spot on. There have been several black hat presentations on this and the SMM exploits for more than a year now.

    7. Re:Ring of Fire by geekoid · · Score: 1

      You cant reload the bios.
      It seems to me if this program can inject itself and change yours, you could create one that changes it.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:Ring of Fire by szundi · · Score: 1

      actually i had an abit nf-7 mobo some times ago and my friend had too. he trashed his bios and i restored it by booting his machine with my bios eeprom installed then switched the eeprom in the running machine to the bad and uploaded the bios successfully.

  15. Just like old times... by FurtiveGlancer · · Score: 2, Informative

    Several EE students found a similar exploit for the Motorola 68010, way back when (early 80s). Bumped the user into supervisor mode with a little register manipulation. At least Motorola sent us updated models after they fixed their undocumented stack issue.

    --
    Invenio via vel creo
    1. Re:Just like old times... by anss123 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Several EE students found a similar exploit for the Motorola 68010, way back when (early 80s). Bumped the user into supervisor mode with a little register manipulation. At least Motorola sent us updated models after they fixed their undocumented stack issue.

      Going from usermode to supervisor mode is a far more serious exploit than going from supervisor to "hypervisor" mode.

  16. Powned? by Trouvist · · Score: 1

    I'm about to flip out and kill somebody, namely the writer of that last article. First off, if you are a journalist, "powned" shouldn't be in your vocabulary. Secondly, its "pwned."

    1. Re:Powned? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correcting people when they misspell words that were originally typos is an odd pastime.

    2. Re:Powned? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "pwn" was not a typo. It's 1337.

      The circle in the p makes an o. See?

  17. welp it seems by mcbain942 · · Score: 0

    all your cpu's are belong to us. She totally walks the walk at ITL of everyone doesnt already know

    --
    I will not disclose a 0 day again I will not disclose a 0 day again I will not disclose a 0 day again I will not disc
  18. Let's go retro by AlteredEgg · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wonder if this will spawn a run on Mac G5's.

    1. Re:Let's go retro by Molochi · · Score: 1

      And Athlons and pentium 4s. Woo! My closets are filled with gold!

      --
      "The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"
  19. Inexcusable by sjames · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Considering that SMM exists solely to help proprietary vendors hide the "secret sauce", this is inexcusable. Every legitimate use of SMM could be accomplished by telling the OS that the memory area is reserved without hiding it away.

    The most frequent use is to have a proprietary chipset device emulate a standard one without revealing the details of its operation.

    Often enough, the "big secret" is that the hardware is crippled and the CPU is doing the real work. Kinda like those onboard "RAID controllers" that are just a plain old IDE interface and a poorly implemented softraid in the proprietary driver. The next step from that is to hide the softraid in SMM and have an SMI trigger whenever the OS writes to the fake registers in the PCI space.

    1. Re:Inexcusable by anss123 · · Score: 1

      It's not worse than drivers that polls interrupts and spinlocks. Don't like it, don't buy it.

    2. Re:Inexcusable by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Often enough, the "big secret" is that the hardware is crippled and the CPU is doing the real work.

      Yes. And board manufacturers get really angry when someone detects that.

      In the QNX community, where "real time" really means something, there's a common test of the operating system's real-time response. The tester wires up a square wave generator to an input that will cause an interrupt, programs the computer to wait for the interrupt and start a real-time user process, and has the user process turn on an output. You run some program in the background to keep the CPU busy. On a serious real-time OS, this shouldn't hurt real time response, and on QNX, it doesn't. There are no long interrupt lockouts in the QNX microkernel. Drivers are interruptable user processes.

      Input and output lines are then wired up to a storage oscilloscope, to display the interrupt response. On most machines, the scope shows a nice, boring, consistent interrupt response time of a few microseconds. But on some CPU boards, there's a spike way out there from the expected delay period. This shows clearly the occasional huge delay (by real time standards) of hundreds of microseconds, maybe even more than a millisecond. That's because something is going on in System Management Mode. QNX programmers have found USB serial emulation, flash disk IDE emulation, and other crap running at SMM level.

      When a vendor gets caught doing this, word gets around in the real-time community that their board is unacceptable for real-time use. Vendors selling embedded system boards have been caught this way.

      Hard real time is a world in which stuff is expected to actually work every time.

    3. Re:Inexcusable by anss123 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hard real time is a world in which stuff is expected to actually work every time.

      So instead of "real time kernel" it should be called "every time kernel" :-)

    4. Re:Inexcusable by sjames · · Score: 1

      It's too bad they don't own up to it in their marketing materials (and don't provide any tech specs that would give the secret away). I only know this from guesswork confirmed by reverse engineering efforts.

    5. Re:Inexcusable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's what you get for using a toy arch (ibm pc) for embedded work.

      understandable, since x86 is an order of magnitude cheaper than anything else because of efficiencies of scale..

  20. more nonsense from the same people by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These people (I refuse to type their names) employ hype incredibly effectively.

    The implications of these exploit are incredibly minimal. They might help a rootkit hide a little better, but they don't make it any easier to install one.

    If you have malicious code running in ring 0, you're already so boned, you really need to dust off and nuke the machine from orbit anyway. And if you have malicious code that modified your BIOS (as some people list as a nightmare scenario), you again already have problems so large a little bit of SMM trouble means little additional pain.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    1. Re:more nonsense from the same people by Molochi · · Score: 1

      I think it's true that most systems would allow a flash to bios from ring 0 anyways, as every system I've recently built came from the factory with it enabled by default as a bios setting. I don't think most people (even geeks) look.

      There are tons of bios/firmware/driver installers on TPB that promise improved performance and enhanced features and any of them could be doing what this exploit is capable of. Each would be run, voluntarily, on the hardware it exploits.

      --
      "The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"
    2. Re:more nonsense from the same people by jvkjvk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So, never run any VMs, then? Or only allow "trusted users" to run VMs?

      Because if I'm a malicious user, I can gain root in my VM hosted on your box through a local privilege escalation attack. Then, I not only gain access to your hypervisor, but to every other VM instance on that machine.

      Sweet.

      Good thing that no one would ever use a VM, isn't it?

    3. Re:more nonsense from the same people by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

      Running as root (local privilege escalation) isn't the same as running in ring 0.

      As to your conundrum, frankly, no, I don't consider VMs to be uncrossable. They are running on the same hardware, a bug in the system could allow one VM to write into the storage space of another and breach security even without any fault in the system or motherboard.

      --
      http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    4. Re:more nonsense from the same people by il+dus · · Score: 1

      That's one of the cool things about virtual machines: physical addresses in a VM are, in fact, virtual addresses. And anyways, I'm not sure about Xen and friends, but vmware has its own BIOS and own SMM code, and taking control of one VM's SMM (which none of these exploits can do, so it's a moot point) wouldn't affect the rest of of the host system at all.

      --
      "I am Dr. Freud, but you may call me.siggy."
    5. Re:more nonsense from the same people by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Running as root (local privilege escalation) isn't the same as running in ring 0.
      No but at least on a normal linux setup it is trivial to go from running as root to running in kernel mode. Just load your malicious code as a kernel module.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    6. Re:more nonsense from the same people by syousef · · Score: 1

      And if you have malicious code that modified your BIOS (as some people list as a nightmare scenario), you again already have problems so large a little bit of SMM trouble means little additional pain.

      Even a man in incredible pain dying of cancer doesn't appreciate a simple punch in the nose. Pain is pain. It might not be a nightmare scenario and it might have been hyped but it's not negligible. It's another facet of the attack.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  21. Bring back burning at the stake! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I for one would love to torch the pile to BURN the evil these devils are!

    1. Re:Bring back burning at the stake! by ijakings · · Score: 3, Funny

      I for one would like to welcome our new flaming devil overlords

    2. Re:Bring back burning at the stake! by damaki · · Score: 1

      BURN THE WITCH!

      --
      Stupidity is the root of all evil.
    3. Re:Bring back burning at the stake! by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      Actually, no, give me Joanna's phone number...

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    4. Re:Bring back burning at the stake! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The witch is my friend. I personally have more lawfully owned firearms and ammunition than most police departments. I have a battalion of like minded friends. You try either Xtian or ATF witch burning and I will see you dead.

  22. They've found a way to infect the processor itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Geez! What's this world coming to? These malacious programmers have found a way to create a trojan that gets into the small amount of SMM memory inside the processor and execute?? That's insane! So, now viruses can tell the KERNEL what to do!

  23. This could create an awesome anti-virus app too! by rrossman2 · · Score: 1

    Anyone in the know I'm sure wouldn't trust many, if any, anti-virus/malware companies from utilizing a tool like this... but imagine how it could potentially help the anti-virus companies. Rootkits, worms, etc wouldn't be able to disable the anti-virus software, as it wouldn't be able to detect it's even running, let alone try to shut down the anti-virus software. Plus, it would make hiding malware, worms, etc from the anti-virus software themselves!

  24. Apple by jlebrech · · Score: 1

    Does this mean Apples are vulnerable?

    1. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Does this mean Apples are vulnerable?

      No. Macs are imperious to rootkits. Now check out this super cool beta version of Safari:

    2. Re:Apple by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Imperious... "arrogantly domineering or overbearing".... I'm trying to decide if this is a typo or if this AC is really John Hodgman.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    3. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does this mean Apples are vulnerable?

      PPC Macs will be immune to this particular exploit. Oh well, one more reason to keep the old PPC G3 with OS 10.4.11 Tiger until it is so obsolete that I can't even watch You Tube with it.

    4. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...that I can't even watch You Tube with it.

      You're not missing much.

    5. Re:Apple by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      Most insightful typo ever

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
  25. Does this mean you can take over the hypervisor? by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 1, Informative

    The obvious implication of this exploit, if SMM is truly more privileged than the hypervisor, is to escalate from root on one vm to root on other vms on the same box. That could be pretty devastating, both for hosting providers and security researchers.

    On another note, I know nobody RTFA around here, but ya gotta love this quote:

    Intel feels that it has a solution in SMM transfer monitor (STM). The premise is that STM places SMM in a sandbox as Intel explains further:

    Lock-based synchronization has known pitfalls: using locks for fine-grain synchronization and composing code that already uses locks are both difficult and prone to deadlock. Transactional memory is proposed to simplify parallel programming by supporting âoeatomicâ and âoeisolatedâ execution of user-specified tasks.

    Gotta love acronym confusion! (That second paragraph is describing Software Transactional Memory, which is totally unrelated to the proposed SMM Transfer Monitor.)

    --
    I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
  26. Just when I thought it was safe to upgrade.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Darn,I was just considering upgrading my G4 Mac to an intel based Mac... Guess I'll wait a bit longer.
    By the captcha is appropriate for this post... "trapped"

  27. VERY good point! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There should be some space in the processor to run "very trusted" software. This software could be self-updating anti-virus software (assuming the anti-virus company's website doesn't get hacked LOL imagine what would happen to all of our comptuers).. ok, nevermind what I just said...assume you can trust the files coming from the anti-virus site, our computers would be totally protected. Not even the operating system could touch or even detect this code. It could execute every so often (on start up?) and make sure there are no threats on ANY hard drive, USB drive, etc. It will fix any threats or warn you about threats that it couldn't take care of on its own (non-rewritable CD-ROM or DVD-ROM containing a boot sector virus)... Disk ejects on its own, system tells you never to insert it again!...THEN o/s boots!

    hmmm cool idea!

    1. Re:VERY good point! by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      Yeah, so that is a great idea until the virus pwns that sector. Oh wait, this is basically what this is. The point is any resource can go to work for the other side.

    2. Re:VERY good point! by Sfing_ter · · Score: 1

      You're daring Balmer to announce Very Very VERY Trusted Software aren't you?

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
  28. wow by blueforce · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Would you look at the brain on that chick...WOW.

    --
    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
    1. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VM is jsut a software, you wouldn't be able to communicate with the host's kernel space directly. So only the VM would be compromised.

    2. Re:Wow by 1s44c · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To put this into perspective, if you are running some big iron hardware with a dozen virtualized servers. With a local privilege escalation exploit on one VM, an attacker could use this attack to take over the whole system, even the secured VMs.

      Are you sure that's what it means? It looks like it needs ring 0 not kernel. Kernel mode would be less than ring 0 where a hypervisor was used. Or does KVM run all kernels at ring 0?

    3. Re:Wow by o.0Man0.o · · Score: 1

      rtfm dude, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware-assisted_virtualization primarily the first paragraph ^.^

  29. ah the exploits of P1 by lrohrer · · Score: 1

    This sounds way to similar to the exploit used in the book P1 -- over thirty years ago.

    sigh.

    1. Re:ah the exploits of P1 by stox · · Score: 1

      P1 is middle aged now, no longer an adolescent.

      --
      "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
  30. Volatile memory? by JoCat · · Score: 1

    I don't see anything about this in the article or on Wikipedia:

    Does SMRAM get cleared when a system is rebooted? It seems like the stuff is stored in chip cache or, worst case, battery-backed bios. Cutting the power and removing the backup battery should be able to clear it, no? It's not much of a rootkit if you can remove it by unplugging your machine.

    1. Re:Volatile memory? by JoCat · · Score: 1

      It occurs to me only now that CMOS is battery backed, not BIOS. My mistake. Still, you can reflash a bios, right?

    2. Re:Volatile memory? by anss123 · · Score: 1

      SMRAM is not CMOS. Reflashing a borked BIOS can be troublesome, but you can clear CMOS.

    3. Re:Volatile memory? by JoCat · · Score: 1

      Duly noted. Thank you for your response.

      To hearken back to the original (now redundant) question: SMRAM does get cleared on a reboot, yes?

    4. Re:Volatile memory? by anss123 · · Score: 1

      SMRAM does get cleared on a reboot, yes?

      SMRAM sits in "normal" RAM, it's not its own chip like CMOS. A cold reboot will clear it; a warm reboot will/should overwrite it.

      CMOS is too slow to keep interrupt vectors in. CMOS sits on an 8MHz buss while SMM interrupts can trigger thousands of time each second, so it needs to be closer to the CPU. Basically the BIOS programs the CPU to ignore a small area of memory and fills it with SMM interrupt vectors.

    5. Re:Volatile memory? by JoCat · · Score: 1

      Oh! I thought SMRAM was some sort of Intel-specific processor cache. Your description makes it all clear. Thank you!

  31. wide reaching, but limited exploitability by v1 · · Score: 1

    So is there any way to exploit this on a mac? It doesn't look like they've actually released information on how the attack gets the foot in the door yet.

    Also, things get a lot more difficult when you are running on such a low level, not interacting with the OS or even the hypervisor. (it's like the difference between coding in VB versus assembly) They talk about it phoning home and downloading nasties, but really, even being able to use the NIC card could be quite an undertaking if you're doing it "by hand" instead of using drivers and OS calls. (so you're going to code a TCP/IP stack in the SMM are you? have fun with that...) Even if they do demo a howto, actually coding something useful may take an equal level of skill as the actual exploit itself required to create. This would at least limit its application.

    Imagine the poor thing getting itself all moved into the SMM and then finding out it's on a mac. Um... what now?

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:wide reaching, but limited exploitability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't look like they've actually released information on how the attack gets the foot in the door yet.

      They need Ring 0 access, then they use the MSR registers. Pointless scaremongering IOW.

    2. Re:wide reaching, but limited exploitability by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      Imagine the poor thing getting itself all moved into the SMM and then finding out it's on a mac. Um... what now?

      I suspect you've got that somewhat backwards. I would think once you get the code into the SMM, if it's as low-level as you suggest, it shouldn't matter whether it's a Mac or not. However, getting the code into the SMM is probably going to rely on OS features, so unless somebody writes a Mac port, it's not happening.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    3. Re:wide reaching, but limited exploitability by evilbessie · · Score: 1

      I think the point is that because this is a privaledged area it can do anything to any system it is running on. So it can add malicious code or change what is already there, because this is more privaledged than root on any system which it has compromised. Which is particularly nasty as exploits go. Not that I've read the article or anything but that was my understanding of this issue. There are things which might make this difficult to exploit in the first place, but once it is there you have no idea what it could have done.

    4. Re:wide reaching, but limited exploitability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine the poor thing getting itself all moved into the SMM and then finding out it's on a mac. Um... what now?

      It potentially becomes a nearly invisible carrier, constantly re-infecting any vulnerable PCs it is connected to. That bad enough for you?

    5. Re:wide reaching, but limited exploitability by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Ah, but it will make a difference, though how much of a difference depends on how it gets there in the first place. If it comes in through a trojan Mac OS X KEXT, it will matter (read "crash") the moment it tries to trap into a BIOS that isn't there. If it comes through Windows, it will matter when it tries to flash an emulated BIOS.... Either way, even at a low level, there are some differences that could make the more interesting uses of such an attack less than 100% cross-platform.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    6. Re:wide reaching, but limited exploitability by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > They talk about it phoning home and downloading nasties, but really, even being able to
      > use the NIC card could be quite an undertaking if you're doing it "by hand" instead of
      > using drivers and OS calls. (so you're going to code a TCP/IP stack in the SMM are you?

      No. You are going to use your powers to install a small trojan into the OS. It will take care of the "phoning" and downloading part.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    7. Re:wide reaching, but limited exploitability by v1 · · Score: 1

      The article specifically discusses the virus downloading and hiding this stuff in the SMM, although they don't discuss the payloads running in the SMM. I suppose it could download and stash it in the SMM and drop it back into windows whenever it detected it had been removed. And give your antivirus programs continuous harassment.

      Point being, such a payload would either be detectable (when copied into normal memory) or harmless (cannot do much when isolated inside the SMM) It's a bit like a virus in a glass capsule in your body. Sure, it's safe from the antibodies, but it can't do much of anything useful because it requires the resources of the body.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  32. amd to the rescue! by scharkalvin · · Score: 1

    Yet another good reason to use an AMD cpu!

    1. Re:amd to the rescue! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      You might want to look into "Blue Pill" before going on about how they will save us from this.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  33. Wow by quo_vadis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Very interesting loophole. For those too lazy to read TFA, basically this attack allows someone running as root (or in some cases as a local user) to run code at a level that even hypervisors cant deal with. To put this into perspective, if you are running some big iron hardware with a dozen virtualized servers. With a local privilege escalation exploit on one VM, an attacker could use this attack to take over the whole system, even the secured VMs. Worst problem is that it would be undetectable. No VM, and no hypervisor would be able to see it. Any AV call can be intercepted as the SMM has the highest priority in the system.

    The solution on the other hand seems pretty simple. Make the chipset block writes to the TSEG for the SMRAM in hardware (by disabling those lines) and use some extra hardware to prevent those lines from being loaded into cache. Finally, make every bios SMRAM update contain a parity and create tools that allow SMRAM parity check.

    --
    Legally obligatory sig : My opinions are my own... etc etc
  34. Summary of the exploit by mkaushik · · Score: 1

    For those who've no time or inclination to read the article:

    1) The attacker should first modify system MTRR
    register(s) in order to mark the region of system
    memory where the SMRAM is located as
    cacheable with type Write-Back (WB).

    2) Attacker now generates write accesses to
    physical addresses corresponding to locations
    where the SMRAM is located.

    3) Finally attacker needs to trigger an SMI, which
    will transfer execution to the SMM code. The CPU
      will start executing the SMM code, but will be
    fetching the instructions from the cache first.

  35. Ummm, about that by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Informative

    How you going to make that work? I'm not talking in theory, I mean in practice. Reprogramming the BIOS is not a simple feat. There's all kind of problem you face that you don't with a program that runs on the OS:

    1) Extremely limited space. BIOSes are small. You don't have gigabytes of space, you don't have many megabytes. Sometimes, you don't even have a megabyte. So whatever code is in there, it is going to be rather limited. More so because you can't simply displace the BIOS. The BIOS is necessary to the system's operation (and of course if the BIOS was gone and replaced with something new, people could know your malware was installed). So you have to preserve the BIOS's function AND add in what you want to do in a very small space.

    2) Highly system specific. BIOSes are not general. You can't take one from a given board and load it on another board. Even within the same manufacturer and general product line BIOSes are not cross compatible. Flash the wrong BIOS on a system, and it isn't booting. So that means that your malware is going to have to be either extremely targeted, as in work on only one specific type of system, or carry around a massive pack of different versions to load the one with the correct BIOS.

    3) Not made to run other programs. The BIOS isn't designed with the idea that you run other software with it. It is designed to set up the system and then load the bootloader. So this means that you don't just write a program and load it on, you have to actually redo the BIOS. Ok, but you don't have the source code for that. Motherboard makers don't open source their BIOSes.

    4) Getting it on systems. Some boards, Intel notably, allow you to update the BIOS from an OS. Their updater actually preps the update to a section for that, and the update is then done on next reboot. However many boards don't have that feature. To update the BIOS, you need to boot to a DOS floppy/CD/flash drive and do it from there. Ya, not so easy to arrange as malware.

    So while a BIOS malware that does things pre boot is a theoretical possibility, it is extremely unlikely in reality.

    1. Re:Ummm, about that by FrankSchwab · · Score: 5, Informative

      As a firmware engineer who patches ROM code in embedded systems daily, I'll give a bit of insight.

      The BIOS as a whole is specific to the board that it is running on. However, that doesn't mean that additions can't be made to the BIOS in a generic fashion. Imagine you searched the BIOS Flash for unused space (all of them will have it), and relocated code into that space (relocating a DOS .exe file is trivial). Writing a FLASH is not a difficult operation, though different motherboard manufacturers probably write protect it in different ways. Your code is now in the BIOS ROM.

      You then modify the code in the flash that handles e.g. INT 14 (Serial communications, pretty much a dead function on modern PCs). This is nothing more than overwriting the first couple of bytes of the address pointed to by the INT14 vector in the flash - you store them in your patch area, and JMP to your routine. Once again, it's a Flash write.

      Now, certainly, at some point in time (BIOS, probably) someone will attempt to enumerate/initialize the serial ports. Your code is now running - the world is your oyster. With this exploit, you can now probably hoist the BIOS code into a VM PRIOR to loading Windows. And you're still there.

      There are different families of BIOS that you would have to support - Phoenix, AMI (do they still exist?), HP, Intel, etc. There are different schemes for protecting Flash, etc. These differences are probably smaller than they sound.

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    2. Re:Ummm, about that by wiredlogic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In PC land most modern BIOSes are designed to be modular and the tools to manpulate them are readily available for free. They usually have enough left over space in flash for a malicious extension to be added. A malicious extension doesn't have to be a complete exploit. It just has to provide the hooks for a compromised OS to call into and execute a small bit of code that would otherwise be impossible to execute.

      I wouldn't be surprised if Macs had similar BIOS vulnerabilities. They're potentially even more vulnerable since, because of the Apple monoculture, all Intel Macs likely have similar BIOS code and a single exploit could easily attack the entire population. This is a growing threat with Apple's increasing market share. The days when nobody bothered to write viruses for Macs are long gone.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    3. Re:Ummm, about that by AndrewNeo · · Score: 3, Informative

      I wouldn't be surprised if Macs had similar BIOS vulnerabilities.

      Except Macs don't use a BIOS at all (well, a traditional one, at least), they all use EFI. I'm certain that they'd have their own brand of vulnerabilities, though.

    4. Re:Ummm, about that by geekoid · · Score: 1

      OK, how do you get it in there in the first place? Can you inject it from a web site? does someone need to have root? do they need to be at the machine?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:Ummm, about that by Khyber · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On several boards I've been unfortunate enough to mis-flash, the fix was to find another board of the exact same model, pull the BIOS, install into the busted board, boot, remove the BIOS after it has booted (still powered on,) plug in the old BIOS, reflash.

      I don't know if this approach works any longer. The last time I did this was about 7 years ago.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    6. Re:Ummm, about that by hot+soldering+iron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My roommate and I both got hit with "Gnats' Ass" virus back in the mid 90's. It was nasty, embedded itself in executables, MBR, any CDs we burned... My roommate had it stuck in his BIOS even *ouch*. A virus written in assembler doesn't have to be huge, or hit all motherboards, just enough of the right ones to propagate.

      --
      When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
    7. Re:Ummm, about that by ifrag · · Score: 1

      Phoenix, AMI (do they still exist?), HP, Intel, etc.

      AMI - American Megatrends - Definately still exists. I recently built a box with Asus R2E motherboard and they went with AMI. In fact, it's one of the most advanced BIOS in terms of tweakage I've ever seen. I hadn't seen a board with AMI in very a long time, so I was rather surprised that they were not only still around, but making stuff on the cutting edge.

      --
      Fear is the mind killer.
    8. Re:Ummm, about that by barzok · · Score: 1

      A virus written in assembler doesn't have to be huge, or hit all motherboards, just enough of the right ones to propagate

      How many different motherboards/BIOSs does Dell really ship?

      How many Dells are installed in offices?

      Getting "the right ones" could be huge.

    9. Re:Ummm, about that by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      While the details are different the principle of a "bios" that runs on startup and provides sufficiant functionality to allow loading a proper OS from a variety of media is still there.

      And I strongly suspect that apples system is just as modular if not more so than modern PC bioses and therefore just as vulnerable to malicious addition of a module.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    10. Re:Ummm, about that by blahrvat · · Score: 1

      Interesting, I'd have guessed that would have deadlocked the machine or cooked the board.

      Defiantly some serious balls of steel right there to do it.

      Don't most mobo makers still allow you to get a replacement bios chip though? I remember them being about $5 shipped when I last needed one.

    11. Re:Ummm, about that by anss123 · · Score: 1

      And I strongly suspect that apples system is just as modular if not more so than modern PC bioses and therefore just as vulnerable to malicious addition of a module.

      EFI is a bit like Java, which means that modules don't consist of native code. As long as EFI itself isn't modified it can prevent modules from doing nasty stuff, or perhaps simply refuse to load unsigned modules.

    12. Re:Ummm, about that by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      While this is all very interesting, 99.9% of PC users don't even know that you can boot from a CD or take the HDD out.

      The only thing they are going to find is that Norton says they have a virus, and can't remove it, and there is no removal tool on the Symantec web site, and Symantec tech support says take the machine back to the shop it was bought from...

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:Ummm, about that by Binestar · · Score: 1

      It's called hotflashing, requires removable flash chips but works fine.

      There is some risk, but the original MoBo is dead anyways, if it doesn't work what's the loss?

      --
      Do you Gentoo!?
    14. Re:Ummm, about that by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Once the BIOS has loaded and you're into the OS BIOS is no longer needed, so pulling the BIOS while the machine is on and booted into the OS is not an issue.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  36. Fight it with the same weapon? by sysstemlord · · Score: 3, Interesting

    TFA: >>"No software you can run on your operating system would be able to detect this type of exploit once you are powned"

    Ok this might be a stupid suggestion, but if it's possible for the malware to use this vulnerability to elevate, why wouldn't the "software", say Antivirus, use the same vulnerability to detect it, or remove it?

  37. what about the fact that RAM isn't wiped on reboot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you remember the headlines here, when it was discovered that RAM doesn't disappear all its data instantly on poweroff?

    That it's possible to make an attack stick across cold-boots?

    ( unless the BIOS scrubs the RAM, which only an idiot, like me, would enable for a default... )

    If it can get into SMRAM, and SMRAM isn't scrubbed on boot, then maybe it bloody well CAN be there next boot.

    I don't know the likelyhood, but I consider it *possible*.

  38. Also, like the virtualization scare by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Strikes me as "Neat in theory, doesn't work in practice." I mean after all the talk about blue pill, you'll notice that attacks of that type are not, in fact, happening all over the place. Why? Well while it is easy to say "Oh you just hide as a hyper visor," it is much harder, I'd say impossible, to actually make a program to do that and not be noticed.

    For example one thing you have to do is properly virtualize ALL hardware. I'm not talking about doing a network card or a graphics card, I'm talking all of them. If you want to be undetectable, it has to look just like the stuff in the system. You can't be having a system with a real Intel Pro 1000 showing up as an AMD PCNet adapter (this is what happens in VMWare, all net cards are AMD PCNet). This includes things like 3D cards. You want to fool me, you have to virtualize my GTX 280. It has to run at speeds consummate with the real thing, and with the same features. If not, I'm going to notice something is wrong and go looking for the reason.

    Rutkowska strikes me as an "ivory tower academic" in that she seems to be real good at coming up with theoretical stuff, with no consideration of how it applies to the real world. Now that's fine, nothing wrong with investigating theoritical means of attack, however she's also a scare monger/over seller. These things are getting promoted as The Next Big Thing(tm) even though there's no consideration for how realistic they are to implement.

    1. Re:Also, like the virtualization scare by ultranova · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You want to fool me, you have to virtualize my GTX 280.

      Why? VMWare needs to virtualize the hardware because it can't give the VM exclusive access to real hardware; but an SMM rootkit can. You can let the OS access the hardware directly to its heart's content, you're simply interested in controlling some memory locations - say, listening to keyboard and occasionally sending some network packets, or perhaps starting a process in the OS.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    2. Re:Also, like the virtualization scare by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You let hardware use DMA, all your hopes of invisibility are gone. DMA means just that: Direct Memory Access.

    3. Re:Also, like the virtualization scare by marcansoft · · Score: 2, Informative

      That was back when the term was coined. These days we have IOMMUs.

    4. Re:Also, like the virtualization scare by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not on your desktop you don't. Your hardware still works via DMA. Remember the recent firewire problem related to that? It is heading that way but DMA is still heavily used in current systems.

    5. Re:Also, like the virtualization scare by entrigant · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's stunning how many people commenting on this story haven't the slightest idea what they are talking about, yet feel compelled to chime in anyways. Even by slashdot standards it's hard to read.

      Some guy before you tried to claim that the hypervisor runs as ring 0 and "pushes" the kernel to ring 1. Nearly all just run all code in ring 3 and employ a combination of interrupt/exception catching and inline code scanning/patching. The ones using hardware virt just run in ring -1 as god intended.

      Another armchair bios writer tried to argue about how no mere mortal could comprehend the bios well enough to inject malicious code into it. That gave me a good chuckle.

      Don't get me wrong, my intent is not to berate you specifically, but I had to reply to one post in this thread, and I got as far as yours before I gave up on reading any more.

      As for your claim, the need to virtualize all hardware known to man was quite funny. Yes all VMware vm's see an amd pcnet32 card. VMware is not virtualization. It only performs one type of virtualization. Hell, many would argue it's not even the best approach.

      A tiny hypervisor can be written with the only purpose of its existence being to simply exist. It can only run a single OS (virtualization does not demand the ability to run multiple operating systems), and it can happily look the other way as that OS accesses all of the hardware on the system natively. The only reason vmware has to give a shit is because it wants to run multiple OSs and give them all a network card. This theoretical hypervisor doesn't need to fullfill any purpose or perform any function. It can be a dumb piece of software that just allows the single guest OS to execute without ever interrupting it or getting in the way.

      Despite the hypervisor being dumb, it has complete control. It can potentially do whatever it pleases with impunity.

    6. Re:Also, like the virtualization scare by TheLink · · Score: 1

      What you do is have YOUR hypervisor running first.

      Then their hypervisor is stuck in your Matrix, not the other way round.

      --
  39. Think of how the NSA and TIA are gonna love this: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NSA, CIA, Total Information Awareness, etc:

    a simple place to store a backdoor,
    so evidence can be got/placed on ANYONE, anywhere, anytime,
    and they can't get any "civil rights" BS going about it,
    because they are prevented from knowing about the backdoor by hardware!

    HEA-VEN, from Authority's perspective!

    ( anyone else remember how an attack was got into a network through a *printer* back in the Gulf War?
    this is much more convenient )

  40. Re:Does this mean you can take over the hypervisor by Jason+Pollock · · Score: 1

    That is how I read it. In fact, that's what the blog says:

        The potential consequence of attacks on SMM
        might include SMM rootkits [9], hypervisor
        compromises [8], or OS kernel protection
        bypassing [2].

    If you get root on any VM on the system, you can take control of the system, not just the VM.

  41. Re:SMM and BIOS write protection by coresystems · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not many BIOSes actually protect BIOS write access through an SMI trap. There are a few more bios protection mechanisms though, like WP GPIO lines to the flash chip that can only be reset on a power cycle. So you'd need physical access for an attack.

  42. coreboot not subject to this kind of SMM exploits by coresystems · · Score: 1

    There's an open source alternative to the BIOS implementations from the usual oligopoly: coreboot. See http://www.coreboot.org/ It's noteworthy to say that coreboot is not subject to the SMM exploits we've seen lately, for several reasons: - coreboot is not using SMM if there is not a significant reason to do it. - coreboot is doing the SMM entry on the non-poisonable ASEG rather than via TSEG or HSEG. Oh, and of course you don't have to break into the code to see what it does, because we don't feel that we have to hide coreboot's weaknesses.

  43. Hiding in RAM - not BIOS flashing by nicuramar · · Score: 4, Informative

    It seems there is a lot of confusion about what this actually does. We're talking about RAM, albeit an area not normally accessible outside the BIOS, so it's not more resilient than anything else hiding in RAM. The BIOS writes code into the SMRAM at reboot, so even if the RAM isn't cleared, it's overwritten.

    This is unrelated to flashing the BIOS, unless there is some special protection that allows this only to happen in SMM, and normal exploits that manage to flash the BIOS would leave you pretty screwed, SMRAM-exploit or not.

    Also, it needs to trigger a SMI to execute the code, so it would need to insert a vector somewhere at a lower level if the exploit code were ever to get executed. I don't see the big deal.

    What does surprise me though is that Intel has made such an obvious mistake in their design. It compares to allowing a user mode app to poison the cache on some kernel memory address. The difference is, of course, that user mode is under MMU and access protection, while ring 0 (from where this attack would normally be launched) is not.

    At any rate, at least root access (on Linux; more on Windows) is needed, at which point, as several people have pointed out, you're screwed to begin with. Only the ability to hide a bit better in memory (but not on disk) seems to be an advantage.

  44. I'm a little confused. by JerryLove · · Score: 2, Interesting

    SMM is volitile, so anything trying to load itself there would have to have a presence on the HDD, where it could be found by an anti-virus (even if it had to be one from a clean boot-disk).

    If SIMM is inaccessable, then how does the root-kit access it. If the root-kit can access it, then how is it inaccessable?

    Last I checked, the CPU SMM doesn't directly connect with other computers. That requires using the network card, which is attached over the bus to a controller (south-bridge?), all of which is potentially monitorable. Then it has to interface with that card (does the exploit include deice drivers for PCI, PCI-E, the network card, etc?) which in turn has a TCP/IP stack (does the SMM package contain that too? Otherwise it seems it's interfacing with the OS and that interface could be monitored) using an IP address that the router will accept (again an action outside the SMM), and sending packets (again monitorable).

    Or am I just clueless here?

  45. Fixed that for you by Tetsujin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'll reserve my judgement on this until I read more from someone that owns a clue.

    I assume you meant "powns a clue".

    There's no "o" in "pwn"...

    Of course, I seriously question the taste of anyone who would use "pwn" in their discussions...

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.
  46. Needs ring 0? by 1s44c · · Score: 1

    Not that I've read the article or anything but it appears you need to insert Ring 0 code, that's kernel level code to exploit this. If you are in a position to insert kernel code you either are root or are capable of becoming root.

    This is just another way to insert a blue pill to hide your presence but it's not really that much better than a well thought out root kit.

  47. Joanna Rutkowska by Any+Web+Loco · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Posting AC becuase I really am a coward but MS Rutkowska is just ridiculously hot - brains, beauty, bitch-slap my loser arse...

    1. Re: Joanna Rutkowska by Any+Web+Loco · · Score: 1

      *facepalm*

    2. Re: Joanna Rutkowska by geekoid · · Score: 1

      You should ahve posted this one as AC, then it accident should have gone from funny, to Hilarious.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  48. Anonymous Coward is gay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Very convincing indeed, I think from this point on, we can now all agree, Anonymous Coward is gay! ... [looks up] oh wait a moment

  49. Re:Does this mean you can take over the hypervisor by oasisbob · · Score: 1

    If you get root on any VM on the system, you can take control of the system, not just the VM.

    If this is true with this exploit (as I assume it is), this is a big deal.

    VMWare is currently of the opinion that it is an OK practice to collapse security zones (eg DMZ/App/DB servers) onto the same physical host.

    Even their documents on PCI compliance with virtualization doesn't say this is a bad idea.

    People in the real world are using VMs as a substitute for more traditional physical security boundaries. If an exploit like this can allow you to VM hop (even if difficult), targeted attacks against PCI compliant institutions are not unlikely.

    Anyone really want another Hearland?

  50. OpenBSD by noz · · Score: 1

    Was this not paraphrased in mid-2007 by Theo of OpenBSD fame?

  51. Security Concepts book covering hardware attacks by solinym · · Score: 1

    I have a free online book here: http://www.subspacefield.org/security/security_concepts.html It covers this attack and some other hardware attacks in this section: http://www.subspacefield.org/security/security_concepts/index.html#tth_sEc8

  52. intel patent the exploit/fix by yupa · · Score: 1

    >What does surprise me though is that Intel has made such an obvious
    >mistake in their design.

    The funny part is that they patent the exploit and fix some years ago : http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0209578.html

  53. Re:Think of how the NSA and TIA are gonna love thi by ion.simon.c · · Score: 2, Insightful

    NSA, CIA, Total Information Awareness, etc:

    a simple place to store a backdoor...

    How many of us physically secure *all* of our hardware when we're done using it? Hell, how many of us do this when we leave the house? Not many, I'd wager.

    There are *far* easier ways to inject malicious devices into our systems than this.

  54. ROM != EEPROM by Baldrson · · Score: 1
    As a firmware engineer who patches ROM code

    As if that weren't a contradiction in terms.

    This points to the underlying problem though:

    SOMEHOW the hardware must support protection of the bios code or you are screwed -- no matter what security architecture you layer on top of it. What is strange is not that there would exist exploits like this, but that hardware manufacturers would be, after all these decades of manufacturing PCs, still be making systems that don't have hardware protection of their bios boot code.

    1. Re:ROM != EEPROM by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      If EEPROM isn't ROM, then DRAM must not be RAM, and Firefox must not be a web browser.

      "ROM" is generic, just like "RAM" and "web browser".

      You're probably thinking of PROM. (there's no erasing that stuff)

    2. Re:ROM != EEPROM by Baldrson · · Score: 1
      In its strictest sense, ROM refers only to mask ROM (the oldest type of solid state ROM), which is fabricated with the desired data permanently stored in it, and thus can never be modified

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_memory

      But then I'm an old guy.

      It might have been understandable to leave out hardware protections for the BIOS boot sequence in the earliest flashable MBs but it really is getting to be rather inexcusable. Did some guy named Gödel prove you may as well give up on it? I'd really like to see the proof.

  55. Funny eh? by golodh · · Score: 1
    Some people might ask: why publish this? Isn't this weakness best covered up (read: exploitable only by the NSA and the like)? Well ... the article itself answers this question:

    Why release this

    Many people, myself included are asking why publicize this? It seems that the researchers felt something needed to be done to motivate Intel into fixing the vulnerability. Rutkowska mentioned that Intel management was informed of this vulnerability in 2005 by its own employees. Rutkowska and Duflot both claim that they also informed Intel of the problem on numerous occasions

    According to Rutkowska's Black Hat DC 09 presentation Intel informed CERT about this potential exploit, eventually receiving tracking number (VU#12784). It appears that's as far as Intel went[...].

    Scary eh? How accurate is Dilbert really when it comes to managers? Or err ... do we need to break out the tinfoil hats?

  56. Seems easy enough to detect to me by dasmoo · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't you just use the exploit to run some software to detect if the rootkit exists? I mean, the OS can't detect the rootkit in the SMM, but other software that's been esc'd can no?

  57. Re:what about the fact that RAM isn't wiped on reb by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    You remember ... when it was discovered that RAM doesn't disappear all its data instantly on poweroff?

    [Does that enable] an attack [that] sticks across cold-boots?

    The RAM content may persist. But you know darn well it won't be executed until it's been overwritten. If it were the machine would have been executing random code on every boot and typically flaking out as a result.

    So, no, I don't think persistence in powered-down RAM is a significant threat.

    (I could imagine it being exploited, though, by a small amount of code that got burned into flash which checked a larger block in RAM to see if it had survived and, if it had, executed it.)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  58. Torrent Link? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    No, seriously..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  59. Re:Does this mean you can take over the hypervisor by kscguru · · Score: 1
    Um ... no. The exploit requires root mode to go and set MSR values to unexpected settings. VMMs do not expose these MSRs to the guest (or rather, they expose fake MSRs that do nothing, because a VM doesn't use cache-control MSRs). Writing to an MSR is a trapping operation, and the VMM will rightly discard these writes as nonsense.

    Breaking out of a VM is like an alchemist transmuting lead to gold. It's a lot harder than it seems, and most of the claims to success are pretenders. I'm sure it will eventually be possible - but the researcher behind this paper is not clever enough to realize when she has failed. (VMware and KVM experts challenged her to write this "undetectable hypervisor" she keeps using as a payload for these "exploits"; she stated that such a thing was trivial academic exercise, yet the world's virtualization experts uniformly believe such a thing is all but impossible. Take anything Johanna Rutkowska says with a very large grain of salt.)

    --

    A witty [sig] proves nothing. --Voltaire