Places Where the World's Tech Pools, Despite the Internet

Slatterz writes "A decade ago people were talking about the death of distance, and how the internet would make physical geography irrelevant. This has not come to pass; there are still places around the world that are hubs of technology just as there are for air travel, product manufacturing or natural resource exploitation. This list of the ten best IT centres of excellence includes some interesting trivia about Station X during the Second World War, why Romania is teeming with software developers, Silicon Valley, Fort Meade Maryland, and Zhongguancun in China, where Microsoft is building its Chinese headquarters."

Comments

Re:Make physical geography irrelevant

[stonedcat]

Anyone else picture a guy jumping into a cab and telling the driver to "follow that building"?

World's Tech Pools

[Anonymous Coward]

Do these pools drain into the series of tubes that makes up the internet?

no internet = have to program yourself

[timmarhy]

I could see why countries were internet access isn't common but technology is at a reasonible level would require lots of programmers. language barreries would be the other reason - no off the self versions of software in your native language.

Re:no internet = have to program yourself

[mail2345]

Language barriers?

Just load the text from a resource file.

All the text.

No work needed on the programmer's end(except making it load the resource file and adding the option to the installer.)

Guess they forgot about Amazon

[Anonymous Coward]

They include Seattle as an honorable mention due to Microsoft, but it's silly to pretend they're the only software company in the area. Amazon, Nintendo of America, and Valve are all headquartered there. Also, Google has a sizeable development center in the Seattle area (it's where they develop GTalk, among other things).

And, most importantly, icanhascheezburger.com is based in the Seattle area.

Re:Guess they forgot about Amazon

[baxissimo]

This list is just silly. I mean Japan?! Come on. Japan is the size of the entire east coast of the US. How much sense would it make to put "The entire east coast" as one of the top 10 "places" where Tech is pooling. None. This list is nonsense.

Re:Guess they forgot about Amazon

[narcberry]

So you think I shouldn't create my new IT headquarters here?

Re:Guess they forgot about Amazon

[Tubal-Cain]

I already have my Secret Base there. Don't tell anybody.

Re:Guess they forgot about Amazon

[coaxial]

Pffft. Who doesn't? ... Now.

Re:Guess they forgot about Amazon

[algoa456]

Excellent post - I mean Japan. Very very few software innovations have come out of Japan. Similarly everyone praises Bangalore (and indeed Bangaloreans conder it the center of the SW world). I travel there a lot, but have yet to see any innovation, say compared to Finland, coming out of Bangalore (or India). Did the 'center of SW' writer just mean collections of SW developers rther than innovation.

Re:Make physical geography irrelevant

[GaryOlson]

...follow the building...

I was more reminded of the Dr. Who episode where the hospital was taken to the moon.

Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[cryfreedomlove]

Silicon Valley is special to me because of its cultural diversity. In one medium sized company you can work shoulder to shoulder with people from every major world ethnic group and every major world religion (including no religion). They work together, peacefully, to make better lives for themselves and their children. Look around the rest of the world. This place is unique and special. I see lots of other places around the world where folks insist on segregating themselves by ethnicity and/or religion. They must hate my home, Silicon Valley.

Peace.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[Anonymous Coward]

That was inspiring! Lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya!

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[nloop]

And they all happen to be male.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[langelgjm]

I see lots of other places around the world where folks insist on segregating themselves by ethnicity and/or religion.

Yeah, I can't think of any fanatic groups of people who cling to various beliefs like so many religions, segregating themselves from others.

Excuse me while I go sacrifice a goat to Larry Wall.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[maxume]

He prefers pink unicorns (6 at a time if you can manage it).

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[blueskies]

don't forget ruby and vi/emacs.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[cyn1c77]

Silicon Valley is special to me because of its cultural diversity. In one medium sized company you can work shoulder to shoulder with people from every major world ethnic group and every major world religion (including no religion). They work together, peacefully, to make better lives for themselves and their children. Look around the rest of the world. This place is unique and special. I see lots of other places around the world where folks insist on segregating themselves by ethnicity and/or religion. They must hate my home, Silicon Valley. Peace.

Hate to break it to you, but this happens in most of the United States. In my experience, a lot of the people in California just think they are special.

I used to live in California. They may not discriminate on ethnicity or religion, but go visit the Bay Area with an NRA teeshirt and a rifle to hunt some deer and see how nice everyone is to you.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[crossmr]

it happens with any company that is multinational, regardless of location. Its difficult to do any serious business in some countries unless you speak the language. The company I worked at in Canada was at least 50% visible minorities including: chinese, japanese, thai, african, native-canadian (or whatever the term du jour is), south american (I think mostly brazil), mexican, middle-eastern, indian, pakistani, etc our parent company was from spain so at least 40% of the office spoke spanish. The sales and customer training departments were from all over the globe. We're all special snowflakes

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[Tubal-Cain]

You didn't hover over his links.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[blueskies]

ah, yes...i missed the last two links.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[cyn1c77]

Probably directly proportional to how nice you are to animals. In some places, they don't like it when you shoot animals for fun.

Thank you for proving my point.

I actually don't hunt myself, but I am of the opinion that animals need to die for humans to live and I would have no problem killing something that I needed to eat. If someone actually wants to go through with all the BS it takes to hunt nowdays (hunting permit/draw, gun permit, learning to shoot reliably under pressure, finding the animal, skinning the animal and packing it out), more power to them. It's a little piece of history that most of us don't appreciate about when we are in a hurry to buy our chicken and cow meat in the supermarket, on the way home to watch Survivor or get on the internet.

People were meant to kill animals and plants to eat them and use them as resources to live. Much in the same way that animals kill each other for life to continue. The key is to do it responsibly, like the other animals do.

Sometimes, humans even need to die for other humans to live.

Welcome to the real world, it's a messy place.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[DigiShaman]

FYI, most (if not all) hunters eat what they kill. It's not like anything is going to waste.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[Kaboom13]

That's why people normally hunt for deer in forests, not suburban neighborhoods. New Yorkers are also surprisingly closed minded, they got mad when I went duck hunting with my shotgun in Central Park.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[triffid_98]

Yes, we call them H-1B's. In other news, our local unemployment rate is now above 10%.

Silicon Valley is special to me because of its cultural diversity. In one medium sized company you can work shoulder to shoulder with people from every major world ethnic group...

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[saiha]

I work in the Bay area and we used to have an avid hunter who worked at our company. He brought in all types of meat to company parties from wild pig sausage to venison jerky. I never noticed any negative behavior towards him because of that, and a decent amount of the employees are vegetarian.

Your own experience, while possibly true (though I have my doubts) is not everyone's experience.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[Pantero Blanco]

I see lots of other places around the world where folks insist on segregating themselves by ethnicity and/or religion. They must hate my home, Silicon Valley.

Most of them don't care, as long as you leave them and the places where they live alone.

Do you hate them?

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[coaxial]

Oh yeah, there's totally no Asian or Indian Americans in the Bay Area.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[coaxial]

Oh god Redding. I grew up in the rural midwest. My house was surrounded by corn fields and the closest towns had populations all under 2000 people. When my family went on vacation, we traveled to the deep south.

But when I went to Redding I was shocked. I had never been to a place so "hicky" in my life. When I met up with childhood friend up in Portland, he completely agreed.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[arkhan_jg]

discriminate on ethnicity or religion, but go visit the Bay Area with an NRA teeshirt and a rifle to hunt some deer and see how nice everyone is to you.

Discrimination is taking action based upon a prejudice; you're looking at someone's skin colour or hair, things they have no control over, and making assumptions about their character based upon that. Religion is not strictly something you have no choice over, but many arabs and jews share common genetics which make them identifiable to the prejudiced (even if they're actually of another faith, or no faith at all)

Being a member of the NRA is not something you're born into. Carrying a rifle to shoot deer is an active decision you've carried out as an adult. While it's certainly possible to be prejudiced against hunters, it's not discrimination merely to have a dislike of an activity that someone voluntarily partakes in as an adult and express that opinion, whereas it is discrimination to have a dislike of say, black people as a whole, then act upon it.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[jotaeleemeese]

Yes, we call them H-1B's. In other news, our local unemployment rate is now above 10%.

Silicon Valley is special to me because of its cultural diversity. In one medium sized company you can work shoulder to shoulder with people from every major world ethnic group...

Can you assure us that those unemployed can cover the unfilled positions? When I used to interview people (the UK, I know, not the same, but it seems to be in a similar situation) we could not fill positions (even entry level ones) because most students were going for soft option education in University (media studies, photography, film making, etc) instead of science and engineering, which is the exact opposite of what has happened in other countries.

Also kids from other countries have lots of experience under their belt: in the UK university is only 3 years, and very often kids take a gap year, that is all great and good, but people their same age elsewhere will have 4 or 5 years university under their belts and they don't take gap years but instead start working, so when you get both of them in front of you it is frankly a no contest.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[Enleth]

You see, hovering is not for those merely initiated, only ones who mastered at least 2/3 of all emacs keyboard shortcuts can attempt this arcane craft that RMS himself uses to aid himself in fendind off ninjas and visiting Cory Doctorow.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[Hognoxious]

in the UK university is only 3 years, and very often kids take a gap year, that is all great and good, but people their same age elsewhere will have 4 or 5 years university under their belts

Which countries are these, where it's normal to start university at 16?

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[EatHam]

Silicon Valley is special to me because of its cultural diversity. In one medium sized company you can work shoulder to shoulder with people from every major world ethnic group and every major world religion (including no religion). They work together, peacefully, to make better lives for themselves and their children.

Yes, this is entirely unlike any other place in the world, especially unlike New York. Though here, we're polite enough not to discuss religion at work unlike you rude-assed left coasters.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[sethstorm]

How about being more flexible with the degree requirement for some stuff that simply doesn't require it?

If anything, the "skilled worker" program needs to be removed; it only makes citizenship an undue penalty. Second, make offshoring very unpalatable and the penalties unescapable.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[dkf]

I used to live in California. They may not discriminate on ethnicity or religion, but go visit the Bay Area with an NRA teeshirt and a rifle to hunt some deer and see how nice everyone is to you.

You're doing it wrong; not enough gadgets there for the Valley. If you instead take a rifle-mount laser capable of killing deer, you'll get a much better reception.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[kabocox]

I actually don't hunt myself, but I am of the opinion that animals need to die for humans to live and I would have no problem killing something that I needed to eat. If someone actually wants to go through with all the BS it takes to hunt nowdays (hunting permit/draw, gun permit, learning to shoot reliably under pressure, finding the animal, skinning the animal and packing it out), more power to them. It's a little piece of history that most of us don't appreciate about when we are in a hurry to buy our chicken and cow meat in the supermarket, on the way home to watch Survivor or get on the internet.

People were meant to kill animals and plants to eat them and use them as resources to live. Much in the same way that animals kill each other for life to continue. The key is to do it responsibly, like the other animals do.

I have a unique POV here in Arkansas. I don't get into all the outdoors stuff. The bulk of the male population here does some form of fishing or hunting. Hunters use bows or guns of various types. I will tell you something that most environmentalists don't quite realize. If it weren't for the hunters and fishers, we wouldn't have any fish, deer, duck, or other game that they hunt. We'd have harvested them to extinction ages ago, or they'd be limited to farm animals.

I dislike PETA and most other general animal lovers with a passion. Some would like to free all the farm animals so we'd never eat meat again. You know what would happen to most domesticated species if we actually chose to stop eating them? Instead of having stable populations in millions for chicken, cows, pigs, and other critters, the bulk of them would be sold off in one last bid to profitably get rid of them, or just let loose. Those that were let loose would mainly die. We'd be lucky if the various species survived for several generations if we ever decided to change our minds and start eating meat again.

Humanity has always preserved/breed/domesticated animals that we've deemed useful.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[kabocox]

Also kids from other countries have lots of experience under their belt: in the UK university is only 3 years, and very often kids take a gap year, that is all great and good, but people their same age elsewhere will have 4 or 5 years university under their belts and they don't take gap years but instead start working, so when you get both of them in front of you it is frankly a no contest.

Think of it as cultural evolution. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but if you think that the students of an educational environment from else where are more competitive than your locally educated, than obviously they have some sort of international evolutionary advantage.

I think immigrates of any type are a poor indicator of other countries educational systems or national environments. Basically immigrates come in two flavors, those that dislike their native home and have fled for whatever reason, and then those that just choose to work else where and then return home after their work career has ended. Don't you think that those that you actually saw of the second group would by default be the best that their given system produced or tried their hardest so that they had skills/abilities needed to leave their native system?

Look at the US immigrates to other countries. They should generally be "highly educated" by the usual standards of the US educational system.

You could say that being a hard working immigrate is some sort of advantage.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[erple2]

Much in the same way that animals kill each other for life to continue. The key is to do it responsibly, like the other animals do.

False. There's no correlation between an animal's behavior and "being responsible" when searching for food. Hunting for animals is an optimization problem in risk assessment. They have hundreds of thousands of years of evolution to support that claim. Hunting is risky (get an injury while chasing game, and you're probably not going to live), it takes a lot of energy to chase down game (animals don't have the benefit of rifles or other "tools" to hunt with), and the reward is only realized if they're successful.

People, on the other hand, have the luxury of not needing to go hunt wild game to eat. We can just go to the grocery store to get it. We have to think of being responsible, since hunting for food (in the same sense that an animal has to hunt) is not a necessary condition for our continued survival.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[catmistake]

For all hunters, Hunting is violent. But its not about the violence, right? Most, if not all hunting is fun, right? But its not about the fun. Its about life and death, the struggle for survival, and the thrill of having your life in the balance... because in the bush its either you (and your scoped semi-auto big cal rifel) ... or the beast (a fearless big eyed doe, or viscious sandhill crane, or ... the big game... a feral pig with a furious squeel!).

The inherent danger (killing a loved one in a drunkin' rage or your son killing the neighbor boy accidently) is a small price to pay ... people gotta eat, right?
Now, I have heard rumors of this magical place where you can just pick pre-killed food up ready to cook or even serve... where hunting is seen as so unnecessary its even vain... but I think this... whatsitcalled... "civilization," is just a fantasy.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[Red Flayer]

FYI, most (if not all) hunters eat what they kill. It's not like anything is going to waste.

In my experience, most hunters have a butcher package their kills for them, eat some venison once or twice, give away a ton of the meat to friends, and let the rest languish in a freezer until it is discarded so that next year's kill can replace it.

And the friends? They graciously accept the meat, eat some once, then let it languish in THEIR freezer until next year another fried offers them some venison, at which point the old stuff gets thrown out.

I'm not against hunting... but I think far, far less is consumed than shot each year.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[cthulhu11]

I'm vegan, yet somehow I'm alive and thriving despite your testosterone-laden rationalizations.

Re:Silicon Valley = Cultural Diversity

[plutoXL]

Silicon Valley is special to me because of its cultural diversity. ... They must hate my home, Silicon Valley. Peace.

Maybe they just don't appreciate you keeping all the smug for yourself.

Zhongguancun is not a city

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a part of Haidian district in Beijing. As an expat living there, my friends and I used to take day trips ($6 for a 45-minute cab ride) down there to buy cheap computer parts at enormous (and always packed) indoor markets.

Dublin

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone spot the the city missing from the list? Dublin?!

Re:Dublin

[tomhudson]

Anyone spot the the city missing from the list? Dublin?!

Not any more. Ireland is no longer the Celtic Tiger:

Historian Richard Aldous considers that the Celtic Tiger has now gone the way of the dodo. In early 2008 all the talk was of soft landings and money-making resilience. By January 2009, the only question was whether the country can avoid a depression.

...

In January 2009 UCD economist Morgan Kelly predicted that house prices would fall by 80 per cent from peak to trough in real terms

...

By 2009-01-30, Ireland's government debt had become the riskiest in the euro zone, surpassing Greece's sovereign bonds, according to credit-default swap prices.

In February 2009, Taoiseach Brian Cowen said that Ireland's economy appeared on course to contract by 6.5 percent in 2009.

That's a disaster, and much of it is related to high-tech jobs leaving Ireland for elsewhere.

Re:Dublin

[twostix]

"That's a disaster, and much of it is related to high-tech jobs leaving Ireland for elsewhere."

And for Ireland whoring itself out like a 40 year old thai prostitute to every multinational on the planet. A lesson to be learned for those that rant and rave on about how countries should capitulate to the threat of corporations moving offshore if their every whim and fancy isn't catered to in their home country. Ireland catered to every whim and fancy and then some. What happened? Some moved their charters to Ireland abused the lax corporate laws and the *moment* the going got tough, they cut and ran. Where? Back to the protection of their home countries and the laws that they left that prevent them behaving as they did in Ireland. Unfortunately leaving Ireland as a shell of her former self - 30 years of real albeit slow progress undone in 10 years by greed with a side dish of a severe dose of reality for the Irish.

Whoring yourself out with low standards (lax corporate laws and effectively no corporate tax) only attracts the bottom feeders, they don't love you, don't give a shit about your country and the citizens *will* pay for the lax laws and regulation sooner or later.

Re:Dublin

[default luser]

Hell, if you're going to include Dublin, you'd have to include Austin first. Known in the Industry as "Silicon Hills," it's the global headquarters of Dell, AMD's former Fab 25, and many other high-tech companies. It also hosts the huge SXSWi festival.

Romania teeming with malware kingpins

[lennier]

"I do not hack....... Wine."

Network infrastructure of choice: 10base5 Thicknet.

Sorry.

Not just Fort Meade - all of the DC area

[Reality Master 201]

All of the VA/MD area around Washington is a big center for computers/IT. NIST is in Gaithersburg, MD and DARPA in Virginia Square, VA, as well as several universities (e.g., UMD, JHU) that are doing interesting research in human language technology - a big area of interest for the military and intelligence communities. Lots of major corporations have facilities in the area, too - IBM, SRI, and BBN to name a few.

Re:Not just Fort Meade - all of the DC area

[simonv]

Not to mention the Dulles Technology Corridor.

Re:Not just Fort Meade - all of the DC area

[skeeto]

There is no such agency in Fort Meade, Maryland.

Ft Meade tech pool?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ft Meade, seriously? I mean, NSA and all, but come on. I think whoever wrote the summary has never been to Ft Meade. I don't think DISA relocating there quite qualifies it as a "tech pool". If you were to say the DC Metro area, then yes, I would agree with that, particularly with all the defense contracting/DOD/IC elements in the area.

Re:Ft Meade tech pool?

[jrumney]

After discounting Seattle because it is "only Microsoft", Fort Meade did seem a bit of a ridiculous choice.

Summing up the .com boom/bust nicely

[JoeMerchant]

Silicon Valley:

it is the kind of place that inspires people with money to take a punt at a seemingly dumb idea.

Remember that: inspire people with money.

Parent's basement

[syousef]

I don't think we can overlook the fact that tech pools in parent's basements all around the world. Spooky!

Top Places ...

[__aajwxe560]

The list:

10. Boston
9. Romania
8. Fort Meade, Maryland
7. Finland
6. Zhongguancun, China
5. San Fransisco
4. Japan
3. Bangalore
2. Taiwan
1. Silicon Valley

Re:Top Places ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it quite silly to compare countries to cities, or a valley in one case. A few points:

* There are many places in Finland with no tech, because there's no anything.

* Boston itself is tiny and Cambridge certainly outclasses it for tech. This should really be the region bounded by I-495.

* Japan, Taiwan and Romania are quite large compared to those other places.

Re:Top Places ...

[clarkkent09]

It's funny how it breaks down the Bay Area into San Francisco and Silicon Valley while on the other hand it puts entire Japan (population 130 mil) as one entry.

Re:Top Places ...

[Miseph]

"Boston itself is tiny and Cambridge certainly outclasses it for tech. This should really be the region bounded by I-495."

In popular usage, the region you describe is called "Boston". Cambridge may technically be a separate city, but most people think of it more as a large and culturally important neighborhood, and no small number are completely oblivious to the fact that it is different from Boston proper at all.

Re:Top Places ...

[amerinese]

You're absolutely right. In Taiwan, you see the same clustering effects with most of the semiconductor fabs (TSMC, UMC), chip designers, flat panel manufacturers, electronics designers all clustered around Hsinchu and the Hsinchu Science Park. Taiwan's "Silicon Valley" or technology hub is Hsinchu.

In Taipei, about one hour north, there are a growing number of software firms.

In Tainan, in southern Taiwan, there also is a cluster of flat panel and solar green energy firms.

Note though, that compared to many other parts of the world, Taiwan is a fairly small place. On top of that, the high speed rail shrinks the distance between all the major cities so that the whole island in some way could legitimately be considered one large cluster. There certainly has been a spreading out of firms from Hsinchu to Taoyuan (30 minutes north) and Taipei (1 hour north), besides the clusters in central and southern Taiwan.

(Off topic, there are also a bunch of clusters for precision tools, bicycles, and many other industries! But I suppose none of those could possibly be conducted over internet)

Re:Top Places ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, this is hardly a definite list, it was just an off the top from two guys. In the tradition of "two points makes a trend line", we have Finland, b/c they are the (original) home of Linus Torvalds and also Nokia. What about Israel, Cambridge (UK), South Korea, Austin TX, New York City etc.

Enjoy, but take it with a barrel of salt.

Re:Top Places ...

[Snowblindeye]

It's funny how it breaks down the Bay Area into San Francisco and Silicon Valley while on the other hand it puts entire Japan (population 130 mil) as one entry.

Yeah, weird how they didn't even explain that in the article. Oh wait... they did!

The whole San Francisco entry basically talks about why they made it a separate entry from Silicon Valley, and how its different.

From the article:

When we were coming up with this list I joked that San Francisco should be considered a separate region from Silicon Valley if only because companies from the valley actually turn a profit at some point. The differences between the two areas, however, are distinct and have become more apparent in recent years.

On the surface, it seems like San Francisco is sort of the mouthpiece for Silicon Valley; a place where the reporters and PR staff are kept so that they don't bother the engineers down in Palo Alto and Cupertino.

In reality, San Francisco has a technology sector all its own, one which blossomed with the rise of the "Web 2.0" era. Because an internet-based service doesn't require a large lab or factory space, startups were able to move from garages to small offices and apartments.

Today, companies such as Salesforce.com and Craigslist maintain their headquarters in San Francisco, while web sites such as Twitter have taken up residence in the trendy South of Market neighbourhood and made the former warehouse district the new hot place to find a start-up.

[...]

Silicon Valley is where you go to start up a business that needs lots of space to grow. San Francisco is where you come if you're a small services startup with low headcount that wants somewhere with good coffee and the best sushi this side of the Pacific.

Shaun and I may have had a giggle about the loss-making side of the business but the fact remains that online is king here.

[...]

The city is the heart of IT innovation, even if Silicon Valley is the soul.

Re:Top Places ...

[khallow]

Japan is in a class by its own. Silicon Valley including San Francisco has a GDP comparable to the other countries though and it's all much more focused on high tech enterprise.

Re:Top Places ...

[Wellington Grey]

Err... does the author not understand the difference between cities and countries? Japan is the size of the BosWash corridor -- it's not a small place.

Re:Top Places ...

[saiha]

Also they include both Silicon Valley and San Francisco. Personally I don't think whoever wrote the list has been to any of these places.

Re:Top Places ...

[saiha]

FTFA:

Finland
Romania
Japan
Silicon Valley
San Francisco

Apart from the fact that their judgment of SF/SV was nonsense, that still is no justification for being lazy and simply naming a country when in the list they essentially name 1 area twice.

Re:Top Places ...

[Deanalator]

It's not strange that they split up cities. It's strange they listed entire countries as hotspots.

Re:Top Places ...

[houghi]

7. Romania
6. Finland
5. China
4. Japan
3. India
2. Taiwan
1. USA

The revised list. Replace Taiwan with China if your political party says so.

Re:Top Places ...

[Hognoxious]

You read the article? Epic fail, noobzor!

Re:Top Places ...

[stephanruby]

The whole San Francisco entry basically talks about why they made it a separate entry from Silicon Valley, and how its different.

It's too bad they never made it to Japan, otherwise they would have noticed the differences between technology centers over there as well. This list is more about the places they've been to, or the places they know about, but little else.

Re:Top Places ...

[JoeMerchant]

It's strange they listed entire countries as hotspots.

Not really, I imagine they (and their intended audience) just don't know enough about the countries in question to say anything interesting.

I can tell you about two streets in Melbourne, Florida that are a "hotbed" of tech startups, but do you even know/care where Melbourne is?

Re:Top Places ...

[MMInterface]

Yeah, weird how they didn't even explain that in the article. Oh wait... they did!

He never said they didn't explain it, he just said it was weird. Despite the explanation it's still weird that Japan is a single entry. There is just as much reason to at least give Tokyo a separate entry.

I don't think the explanation is accurate. After reading the article, I think the more likely reason is that the authors are just more familiar with the Bay Area than they are with many of these other places. The Japan entry for example reads more like something copied from tourist literature. Here is an example:

it is also far more advanced in a number of areas such as gaming consoles and
smartphones.

Anyone familiar with Japan and the consumers there would know that Japanese Smartphones are not more advanced, most of the popular and advanced phones are not Smartphones but clam shell phones with numeric key pads. In fact most of the actual smartphones you see in Japan are not Japanese, they are American or Chinese. I'm not merely trying to correct him, just point out that the real explanation probably has a lot more to do with the authors having token incorrect information about some of these other places and having first hand info about the bay area.

Re:Top Places ...

[Xest]

I guess they've never heard of Cambridge, England?

Chile

[cenc]

I run a relocation biz in Chile. Chile is one of the most wired countries in South America.

Quality of life trumps connection in my experience.

I have a large pool of clients that are serious IT people that left the rest of the crazy world. They simple would prefer an o.k. connection, and a safe stable quiet place to work and for their families to live.

There is very little going on inside Chile as far as the IT industry is concerned, but it is a nice place to work compared to the rest of the World. They are progressively moving in bigger numbers for the lifestyle, not the connection.

Geeks live where they want to live

[Anonymous Coward]

Richard Florida (an economics prof.) wondered why his home town didn't keep the geeks that graduated from his school. They would graduate and then move elsewhere. Hi-tech companies couldn't get employees in spite of the fact that they graduated within five miles of the company.

What Florida discovered was that geeks want to live in certain places and not others. He wrote lots of papers and finally produced a popular book, 'The Rise of the Creative Class'.

He pointed out how Silicon Valley was able to flourish in spite of the fact that Boston was established in the hi-tech game. In Boston, employers can block employees from taking their knowledge to competing companies. In California, they can't.

Lots of things determine whether geeks will gather in a particular place. The place I would look for the next hi-tech paradise is southern Ontario. It has all the characteristics Florida found that attract geeks and hi-tech companies.

Re:Geeks live where they want to live

[mevets]

| The place I would look for the next hi-tech paradise is southern Ontario. It has all the characteristics Florida found that attract geeks and hi-tech companies.
I doubt Hooters and old people driving with their signal lights on will do it.

Re:Geeks live where they want to live

[drsquare]

I'd imagine it's more of a snowball effect, geeks will move to wherever other geeks are, and where all the companies are. There's little more to it than that.

Re:Geeks live where they want to live

[JoeMerchant]

The place I would look for the next hi-tech paradise is southern Ontario. It has all the characteristics Florida found that attract geeks and hi-tech companies.

Can't resist: is one of those characteristics lack of sunlight?

I find it really hard to contemplate moving more than 30 degrees off the equator - global warming hasn't messed up the sub-tropics yet.

A lot of the living location decision depends on personal history/preference, whether you are seeking or avoiding family, etc. Companies are swayed by financial incentives, etc., but people aren't so easy to shuffle around... even though the US macro economy is struggling mightily to make us all into a bunch of nomads.

Yep, the internet did the opposite

[heroine]

The internet concentrated the jobs instead of spreading them out. Now if you're not geographically in Silicon Valley, your job can be done in Taiwan, so all the job seekers come to Silicon Valley. In the old days, you could have gotten a job in Nebraska. Not anymore. No-one even knows what Nebraska is anymore.

Re:Yep, the internet did the opposite

[Reality Master 201]

No-one even knows what Nebraska is anymore.

I think that'd make a fascinating poll; I wonder how many US citizens actually couldn't tell you what what Nebraska is.

Re:Yep, the internet did the opposite

[godrik]

Everybody knows Nebraska was a software company that used to be located in Silicon Valley...

Re:Yep, the internet did the opposite

[Gibbs-Duhem]

As a datapoint, my roomate and I (both MIT grads, for all that says about our geography skills?) were at a restaurant before the election and for shits tried to name every US state (which we both could in high school).

Nebraska was the only one we couldn't remember.

Re:Yep, the internet did the opposite

[Elrond, Duke of URL]

A: Nebraska.

Q: Where is the United States Strategic Corn Reserve?

Re:Yep, the internet did the opposite

[coaxial]

Nebraska is a type of corn syrup right?

Re:Yep, the internet did the opposite

[Hognoxious]

There is no Nebraska. The Nebraska is a lie.

Re:Yep, the internet did the opposite

[JoeMerchant]

No-one even knows what Nebraska is anymore.

Google maps is your friend, some of the clueless are actually learning how to look things up on their smartphones today.

Re:Yep, the internet did the opposite

[s73v3r]

Its where that Football team is, isn't it? The Big Red one?

What's really behind Finlands IT success

[barwasp]

Far more, I think, is down to the character of the Finns. After being robbed, raped and pillaged by almost every country in Europe the Finns are very independent.

That isn't even wrong. But if the writer prefers to reason Finland's IT success with certain mental characteristics ... well writer would do it better by trying to explain it with "boneheadism" and I am joking less than you think.

Re:What's really behind Finlands IT success

[Louai]

A common expression amongst Finns is "Vaikka läpi harmaan kiven", "Even through gray rock". More elaborately put, if you are determined enough, you'll get there eventually, no matter the obstacles. There are other similar expressions, and even a word that sums it all up, sisu.

Re:What's really behind Finlands IT success

[Hognoxious]

Boneheaded as in stubborn, but not stupid.

If they weren't stubborn, they wouldn't exist - they'd be part of Russia and/or Sweden.

Re:What's really behind Finlands IT success

[barwasp]

Boneheaded as in stubborn, but not stupid.

Exactly ! And that is what the another poster (Louai) was explaining in detail with his erroneously 0-pointed comment.

A common expression amongst Finns is "Vaikka läpi harmaan kiven", "Even through gray rock". More elaborately put, if you are determined enough, you'll get there eventually, no matter the obstacles. There are other similar expressions, and even a word that sums it all up, sisu.

Re:What's really behind Finlands IT success

[PPH]

Where else would someone try to write their own O/S kernel but in a country with nights that are six months long.

Linux would never have been written if Linus lived in Hawaii.

Re:What's really behind Finlands IT success

[Xest]

I thought Scandinavian countries were good technologically because in the winter, when it's -30C out and the days don't last more than an hour there's not much to do other than prat around on a computer.

Like you say I don't think history has anything to do with it.

Mixed categories

[dominique_cimafranca]

The list seems to mix up categories. Some listed are cities or states, but some are entire countries. Where in Finland, Japan, Taiwan, or Romania, exactly?

there's something terribly oxymoronic

[toby]

...in putting "Microsoft headquarters" and "centres of excellence" in the same paragraph.

Missing at least two

[d3matt]

They're for sure missing the "telecom corridor" in the DFW area (hello, TI, inventor of the silicon transistor!) and "research triangle" in North Carolina.

Re:Missing at least two

[zappepcs]

Not only did they miss a few, but the simple part of this is that those tech companies really don't go in big for telecommuting/teleworking. The one group of companies that would most be able to use it... oops!

Missing the Silicon Praire, aka Chicago

[stox]

We may be stealthy, but an enormous amount of tech comes out of the Chicago area.

Geeks and Gays

[swm]

Lots of places would like to be a high-tech hub.
High tech is prestigious, brings high-paying jobs, has good health and safety and low (local) environmental impact.
Lots of places build out infrastructure (roads, office parks, networks, schools, housing) hoping to become a high-tech hub.

Some of these places succeed, some fail.

It turns out (can't recall the source, sorry) that one of the best predictors of where you will actually get a high-tech hub is the size of the local homosexual community.

Why?

Geeks and gays are both seeking the same kind of social tolerance.

Re:Geeks and Gays

[Anonymous Coward]

Like in Singapore? Which libtard are you quoting, Friedman or Florida?

Re:Geeks and Gays

[quarterbuck]

Weather may be a better predictor.
There is an interesting story about how Bangalore came to be the hub for India. In the 80's Texas Instruments wanted to set up shop in India. They visited Mumbai, Delhi etc. and stopped over in Bangalore. They liked the weather. So they sent another team headed by an Engineer called something Dickinson. He was walking around Bangalore and spotted a street called Dickinson street. He loved that and decided to set up a TI office on that street. Before that Bangalore was a retirement destination but now started attracting Engineers due to TI.
Meanwhile in Pune(another city in India), Infosys was building its IT center and they heard that all the Engineers were going to Bangalore. The head of Infosys was from Bangalore so he did not need much convincing to move his headquarters there.
And thus India's Silicon Valley was born.

Re:Geeks and Gays

[Thaelon]

And less competition for women.

Re:Geeks and Gays

[level4]

If that were true, I'd expect Sydney, Australia to be a much larger tech hub that it currently is. We're basically the gay capital of the southern hemisphere, but all you're find here are some crappy branch offices of foreign corporations and boring local systems integrators.

So I think you're wrong about that, but one thing you said was spot on - what attracts both gays or geeks is *other* gays or geeks.

The fact that they both congregate in San Fran is pretty much a coincidence, I think.

Re:Geeks and Gays

[s73v3r]

Then you head toward Silicon Trailer-Park? (Not necessarily a bash on you, just the lame stereotype joke of rednecks living in trailer parks)

Re:Geeks and Gays

[HungWeiLo]

If that were true, I'd expect Sydney, Australia to be a much larger tech hub that it currently is. We're basically the gay capital of the southern hemisphere,

Or Buenos Aires for that matter.

What no RTP?

[MadMorf]

So, I guess Cisco, IBM, GlaxoSmithKline, Bayer, Sony Ericson, NIH, EPA, NetApp, EMC, Red Hat and others don't count? And don't forget, as I've mentioned before, the Sanrio store...

Re:What no RTP?

[PrescriptionWarning]

shhh don't tell em about RTP, lest we see traffic congestion rise to california levels!

Re:What no RTP?

[khallow]

You forgot SAS Institute. They aren't in RTP proper, but have their headquarters in Cary. And of course, three high quality universities.

Re:What no RTP?

[IorDMUX]

So, I guess Cisco, IBM, GlaxoSmithKline, Bayer, Sony Ericson, NIH, EPA, NetApp, EMC, Red Hat and others don't count?

Cisco: Absolutely huge campus (headquarters) in San Jose/Milpitas, in the Silicon Valley
IBM: Research in Almaden and Austin, headquarters in New York
GlaxoSmithKline: Headquartered in UK, U.S. offices split between RTP and Pittsburgh, PA
Bayer: World headquarters: Germany; U.S. headquarters: Pittsburgh, PA. Minor research in RTP
Sony Ericsson: Everywhere.
NetApp: Headquarters (and most offices) in Sunnyvale, CA, in the Valley EMC: Headquartered in Massachusetts, major offices in the Valley and China
Red Hat: Main offices near RTP

No one said that they don't count, but, as you can see, the RTP is more a conglomeration of small branch-offices of companies who direct their main focus elsewhere. I've been to Boston, Silicon Valley, San Francisco, and the RTP, and the latter simply can't hold a candle to the tech environment and opportunities of the other three.

Re:What no RTP?

[SL Baur]

Cisco: Absolutely huge campus (headquarters) in San Jose/Milpitas, in the Silicon Valley

Much of the upper management is in RTP. Much development is in the process of moving to Bangalore.

California is in a death spiral and has been since the days of Jerry & Linda.

Re:What no RTP?

[IorDMUX]

Much of the upper management is in RTP. Much development is in the process of moving to Bangalore.

My daily commute into Santa Clara takes me on a ten-to-fifteen minute drive through Cisco's main campus, where the majority of their engineering and design takes place. Yes, ten to fifteen minutes of actual driving, down a 2-3 mile stretch of road where nearly every office building you can see has the Cisco logo proudly displayed out front.

Maybe management fled the CA hustle for RTP, but engineering is still going strong in Cisco's dozens of building here in the Valley. (Plus, they funnel plenty of money into beautification of the roads and ways in their campus... it makes for a nice scenic drive when friends and family come to visit the area. :-) )

Diff between pools, use, and innovation

[jgruber]

I can agree with many of the points made, but I need to point out a few others. I think the article focused too tightly on software and tech for tech sake. 1) Saying Microsoft is so overwhelming as to nullify the other technology players in Seattle is not correct. There is plenty of tech in Seattle that has nothing to with Microsoft PC based OSes or products (hello... aerospace anyone?) PC based software systems don't equal technology. 2) IT product companies can be notoriously cheap on spending. Business centers in turn can become places where actual use of the technology drives product requirements and innovation. That puts some very bright people making good money in New York, Tokoyo (not the whole of Japan), London, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, etc.. There are some tech folks in the business sector I would stack up against the best vendor engineers or university types out there. Notice most of the world's telecom isn't found in the cities on the list. It's more towards business. Wall Street and Main Street spends money.... Not just the list above. 3) While innovation is increasingly becoming much more a corporate thing (vs government and state education institutions), you have to give props to tech towns built around universities like Austin. You still go to specific universities if you want to research specific areas of science. I'm sure the diversity arguments still play here too. I thought Austin was a pretty big miss.

Re:Fix the "comments" system

[techno-vampire]

This removes the slider functionality.

You mean it's supposed to have some sort of functionality? I thought it was just intended to uglify the page like the rest of the "improvements" and turned them off as quickly as I could.

It isnt about ability

[moniker127]

We could have teleporters and people would still want to live in the vicinity of other like minded people. It is just human nature. Probably the reason we've survived this chaotic evolutionary process.

Why California gets it

[Animats]

One of the big reasons high-tech has been so successful in California is the provision in the California Labor Code that prohibits employers from owning what you do on your own time. No employment contract in California can override that. So you can do a startup while still employed.

Employers hate this, but it's one of the big reasons for Silicon Valley's success. It also boosts innovation in aerospace and Hollywood, both major California industries.

Re:Why California gets it

[stox]

Illinois has a similar law.

Re:Why California gets it

[Anonymous Coward]

Silicon Valley's success is mainly due to Shockley Semiconductor Laboratory. Virtually every other semiconductor company(TI is a notable exception) is a direct descendant or started by a former employee of a descendant.

Ahhh, the way of the world

[iminplaya]

You can't expect a local police chief to enforce the law when he's being paid fifty times his government salary to look the other way.

San Fernando Valley

[oldhack]

You know, the porn capital. Will spare you the obvious verbiage.

Silicon Valley has cheap real estate?

[RR]

Others note the relatively cheap real estate

Silicon Valley and “cheap real estate”? Compared to what? The moon? San Francisco?

Copy Editor

[MaceyHW]

It's pretty hard to take this article seriously considering the number of glaring copy errors. If the authors couldn't be bothered to reread what they wrote, how much time did they put into researching and considering the list itself?

Re:Copy Editor

[colinrichardday]

You mean Cambridge isn't in Boston? It's in the Boston area, but not Boston itself. Also, no mention of the old(?) Route 128? Wasn't Bletchley Park better known for computerized decryption?
Taiwan is only 2,000 miles from US soil? More like 5,000.

Also, "Alumni" is plural.

corrections to article

[societyofrobots]

"Japan leads the world in robotics"
Hardly true. They lead the world in bipedal robots, but that's it!

I would actually argue that Pittsburgh leads the world in robotics. Which brings to mind, considering the huge influence that Pittsburgh has on IT, why isn't it listed?

Re:corrections to article

[samkass]

I was thinking the same thing. Robotics, medicine, IT, and manufacturing technologies especially. They definitely have a solid tech sector and as a percentage of the local industry it's pretty high. But as a percentage of the population it's not, and walking down the street you're more likely to meet a retired couple or a blue-collar worker than a geek in most of the neighborhoods. And if you work there you'd better not piss anyone off because all the geeks in Pittsburgh are between 1 and 2 degrees of separation from each other.

Re:corrections to article

[coaxial]

I'll tell you why Pittsburgh isn't listed. Once you graduate CMU, you leave. If Pittsburgh could hold on to the CMU graduates, they'd have something, but they can't, so they don't.

Paul Graham talked about this very thing, including citing the problems of Pittsburgh-CMU conundrum. He posits that it's the lack of venture capital (or "rich people" as he put it) in Pittsburgh, but I suspect (as he seems to) that there's something more missing.

Re:corrections to article

[societyofrobots]

Yea you're probably right.

Pittsburgh is relatively new as an IT hub, perhaps this 'problem' is only temporary . . .

Re:corrections to article

[OneSmartFellow]

...but I suspect (as he seems to) that there's something more missing

Hmm, lack of good weather ? lack of proximity to a major city ? Safe bridges ?

Or perhaps it has to do with existing attributes. a declining population ? Perhaps a violent crime rate almost twice the national average ?

Maybe the self serving politicians might get to work on these (latter) issues, but it's unlikely.


I don't expect them to do anything about the weather.

Re:corrections to article

[coaxial]

I'd call Pittsburgh a major city. It has professional teams in three of the four major sports, and is a place people have heard of. Which more than I can say about some of the cities with more population. Mesa, Arizona? Jacksonville, Florida has 800k people?

Good weather? It's not any worse than Boston, but let's face it, Boston is second tier when it comes to tech, and everyplace else is third tier.

If you managed to stem the brain drain, population would go up. Crime? Pfft. Come back when you're East St. Louis. ;)

I don't expect them to do anything about the weather.

Well they won't with that attitude. :)

Re:corrections to article

[coaxial]

Given 30 years of IT, I doubt it. Also, are those ironic quotes?

Re:corrections to article

[societyofrobots]

Boston has been an intellectual power house for hundreds of years. Pittsburgh? 30 or so . . .

Personally I think winters in Pittsburgh suck, and the city lacks fun things to do . . . And people go where the jobs are. But its improved quite a lot in the last 10 years . . .

Re:corrections to article

[markov_chain]

I considered Pittsburgh but it has two major problems: 1) weather sucks, 2) no ocean within a couple hours drive.

Re:corrections to article

[djp928]

I think it has more to do with the fact that most people think Pittsburgh is a hole.

Re:corrections to article

[coaxial]

Boston has been, but we're talking about a specific segment of the economy. And a segment that has only existed for 30 years.

If we were talking about investment banking, saying that Willminton Delaware has banks just like NYC, while may be technically true, is also irrelevant. It doesn't have the critical mass of people.

Re:corrections to article

[coaxial]

Pffft. Oceans are overrated. Smelly and cold.

Yeah, and I live on the beach.

I think it a flock mentality

[Chitlenz]

It's like the old joke, "if you live in the desert, go where the water is". I think we as technology professionals should watch with interest the turmoil on Wall Street, another industry that saw people pooling together in set places. While I think that having Silicon Valleys IS a very important and critical starting place, I KNOW from firsthand experience that content creation happens all over for the people who do it. I code from maybe midnight to 7AM every day, like clockwork. I work this way because I like the quiet of working at night. I work alone more often than not, and I like that free design process. I USED to work in a cube in a technology center while I was learning to code, but I think that the future is in people getting out of the 'me too' Valley mentality, and into the self aware entrepenurial mentality. For me this is what it takes, but part of the process was moving to the mountains to avoid all the city life distractions.

Personally, I don't see how anything gets done in office buildings period. They're all so grey and structured. I think imagination is a prerequisite for invention, and that we stack the cards against ourselves by focusing on one or 2 holy grail areas for technology.

Remember, garages are everywhere (at least in America), and I think that this pooling effect is not only not necessarily a good thing, but it might be why computing breakthroughs are slowing down (despite the hype). The last real cycle of innovation ended in the late 90s, and I would say that I don't see much of it now either.

--chitlenz

Re:I think it a flock mentality

[coaxial]

Garages are everywhere, but smart people aren't. Innovation was never by a single guy working in a shed out back in secret. There always was a community of like minded people, trading ideas and competing. SV is biggest place for software, and it's been that way for 30 years.

Depends where you go...

[bashibazouk]

There are places in the bay area that would be entirely unfazed by your rifle and NRA tee-shirt but you have to seek them out. But, considering the fact housing is dense enough that to safely and legally hunt deer you would have to drive 2 to 3 hours away, it's not too surprising you got the response you did. Drive that 2 or 3 hours and you will get the reception you want without looking for it. California is a big and diverse state. Generalizations about it usually usually indicate a lack of experience with it.

Re:Depends where you go...

[cyn1c77]

There are places in the bay area that would be entirely unfazed by your rifle and NRA tee-shirt but you have to seek them out. But, considering the fact housing is dense enough that to safely and legally hunt deer you would have to drive 2 to 3 hours away, it's not too surprising you got the response you did. Drive that 2 or 3 hours and you will get the reception you want without looking for it. California is a big and diverse state. Generalizations about it usually usually indicate a lack of experience with it.

Like I said in my other reply, I don't actually hunt out of pure laziness. I just picked an example that I knew would get a rise out of the people who live in that area based on my experience living there.

As you say, California is a big and diverse state and there are tons of cool people living there. There are also tons of self-obsessed pricks, just like everywhere else in the world.

I moved from Cali to New Mexico several years ago. Obviously it isn't the same as California. But there are some pretty darn nice people here too, and in my opinion, (as a generalization :) they are even less judgmental than California. I think it's because they just want to live their lives and let others live theirs.

Re:Depends where you go...

[saiha]

New Mexico is ok, but there isn't a whole lot to do there besides drink.

Re:Make physical geography irrelevant

[www.sorehands.com]

In one Dr. Who episode, the Daleks moved the entire planet.

Re:Make physical geography irrelevant

[Captain Splendid]

Fuck that. What kind of dumbass cab driver doesn't know his city backwards?

Geographical ignorance

[petes_PoV]

On the one hand it lists entire countries: Finland, Japan, Romania, Taiwan and then gives separate entries to two places a few miles apart - one of which doesn't even exist on any maps. Silicon Valley is a warm, cuddly name dreamed up by the pundits in the 80's - it's not a place, any more than the Bermuda Triangle is.

Luckily, this list is merely someone's opinion and therefore not worth a damn.

Re:Geographical ignorance

[turkeyfish]

No one would accuse the authors of this article as being scientific. A truly scientific approach would be fascinating, however. Nonetheless, the
article does hit the IT phenomenon in once sense, directly on the head.

The single largest component of the innovation is often the magnitude of the HYPE that sustains much of it. Without the hype, how could we compare the true significance of say the consequences of Alan Turing's work to say "Twitter", where all that is wisdom must be limited to 150 characters.

The article on SV

[coaxial]

Two of the greatest cities in America are found here

San Francisco and.... uh.... um.... Los Gatos? Seriously. What's the other one? It sure as hell isn't the overgrown suburb San Jose. It doesn't even have a decent downtown, let alone an a real airport.

Re:The article on SV

[OneSmartFellow]

Oakland, you insensitive clod !

Re:The article on SV

[kchrist]

The best thing about San Francisco is that you can see Oakland from there.

Re:Yo mumma

[Ragzouken]

Garth Marenghi's Darkplace!

Special? Hardly.

[jotaeleemeese]

London, Hamburg, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Paris, Barcelona, Cape Town, heck, even Windhoek, etc.

And nowadays in big corporations everywhere you see the same thing. When I worked in Warsaw there were Indian, Chinese, English, German, Polish and of course yours truly (Mexican), in Kula Lumpur there were Malays (Muslim), Thai (Buddhist), Chinese, varied westerners, Iranians, Indian, all working happily without undue complications.

Your comment sounds terribly parochial to be frank, you guys in the US need to get out of your country a bit more.

Bar extremist regimes (Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea) where people are separated in purpose for religious, ethnic or ideological reasons, in most civilized places (normally democracies) you will see hot spots where peaceful coexistence is the norm.

Oh please, come down from your high horse.

[jotaeleemeese]

The GP was refering to people that hunt for fun. He said nothing about people that hunt for need or that use the kill for their own consumption.

As for the NRA it may be a legal organization in the US, but they are seen as nutcases in many places, and for many good reasons (their extreme views about gun ownership are ayathollic and confrontational, so it should be no surprise if some people find them disagreeable).

Re:Oh please, come down from your high horse.

[khayman80]

The GP was refering to people that hunt for fun. He said nothing about people that hunt for need or that use the kill for their own consumption.

I think he implied that "hunting" = "hunting for fun" by using that phrase when the original poster merely said "hunting". That's a pretty common way of disparaging someone you disagree with- create a straw man that you think represents their position.

As for the NRA it may be a legal organization in the US, but they are seen as nutcases in many places, and for many good reasons (their extreme views about gun ownership are ayathollic and confrontational, so it should be no surprise if some people find them disagreeable).

The interesting thing about intolerance is that people who practice it find ways to convince themselves that it's "for many good reasons". After all, the people across the aisle are just nutcases, so why take them seriously?

I'm not going to take any particular position on this issue, but I will note that both sides are incredibly uncivilized to each other. There are points to be made for each side (and those points are different for different cultures), but it's profoundly unproductive to label people who think differently "nutcases."

Since he probably won't say it again, I will. Thanks for proving his point for him...

Re:Oh please, come down from your high horse.

[amilo100]

Firstly, hunting is fun.

I find it hypocritical of people who eat meat but dish people who like to hunt. Salami does not grow on trees.

Why is it "wrong" to hunt? A deer has a better quality of life than most farm cattle - and he has a good chance to escape. All other meat-eating animals in nature hunt.

Maybe we are programmed to like hunting because we are omnivores?

Or should we separate all animals and feed lions soy?

Re:Oh please, come down from your high horse.

[riceboy50]

It doesn't matter why they do it. The point is that the enlightened Bay Area has just as much bias and intolerance as everywhere else. Your comment about the NRA is case in point. Without further information about your gun ownership views, I can only surmise they would find them disagreeable in kind.

Re:Oh please, come down from your high horse.

[Pandrake]

Hmmm... I live in the "Bay Area" and we have lots of hunters and NRA types living here and we're all quite agreeable to both the "hippie" and the "gun-nut" types here. Downright friendly, in fact.

Not as friendly as "Central Valley" or "Sierra Mountain" people if they don't live in Sacramento, but certainly much friendlier than "Inland Empire" or "LA" people who can't tell the difference between a "surfer" hunting seals and "ganstahs" pretending to be Elmer Fudd.

I'm not saying that this part of the Bay Area is more or less enlightened than other parts. I'm saying that this Republic is very tall and very wide. Please don't stereotype such a large demographic.

Cambridge (UK)

[worip]

It is the British version of Silicon Valley (called Silicon Fen) , and is certainly much more prominent than Romania. ARM is probably the most famous of the Cambridge-based companies.

Re:Make physical geography irrelevant

[stupid_is]

One that doesn't have The Knowledge - i.e. most minicab drivers in the UK...

Re:Make physical geography irrelevant

[AlecC]

*Not* minicab drivers. The ones who have to take The Knowledge are the licensed cab drivers of London, who usually drive the famous Black Cabs (nowadays not always black), and are allowed to pick up passengers who hail them on the street. Minicab drivers is the term used exactly for those those who are *not* licensed drivers who have done The Knowledge. You have to book them (e.g. by phone) and there are far fewer controls over them. And all this applies only in London.

Arlington, Virginia

[wfolta]

DARPA is in Arlington, Virginia, one of the most diverse and well-educated counties in the country. (And the smallest self-governing county in the country.) Arlington County is also a leader in smart growth, planning, sustainable growth (or whatever you call it), with places like Tyson's Corner, Virginia, openly pointing to it as the inspiration for what they want to become.

Virginia Square is a neighborhood and a Metro stop, not a town.

Re:Arlington, Virginia

[Reality Master 201]

Congratulations on being correct about a very small point which in no way improves the quality or intelligibility of the discussion; later we can start correcting one another's spelling and word choice.

Re:Arlington, Virginia

[wfolta]

Whoa, who took the sugar off of your Frosted Mini Wheats this morning?

First, the original post was misleading as to the location and I mentioned that. Second the main point of my reply was to give credit to Arlington County, which is much more than a single neighborhood, and which contains much more than DARPA (things like the NSF and the Pentagon, for example), and to tie it in to the diversity discussion regarding San Francisco, Silicon Valley, etc.

Congratulations on picking up on one small point -- and taking great offense that you might actually be incorrect -- instead of looking at the rest of the posting, which in fact added value to the discussion.

Re:Arlington, Virginia

[Reality Master 201]

Whoa, who took the sugar off of your Frosted Mini Wheats this morning?

Congratulations for picking on my wheat allergy!

I'm just taking out my general frustrations in life on Slashdot these days. Don't take offense, I'm just some jackass on the internets. You were correct, and Arlington county does deserve to be given recognition as part of the overall cluster of tech locales in the DC area.

Jerk.

an interesting read

[v1]

I will simply say that article is a very interesting read. Skip the "honorable mentions", they just rattle off things we're all too familiar with. Skip right to the first (#10) and enjoy.

Dublin was never a power house

[WindBourne]

Look, power houses are NEVER where branches are. They are where HEADQUARTERS are. Branches are always closed FIRST. Dublin was nothing but a set of branches. That is why places like China have worked hard to get branches there, THEN steal whatever tech it can and build new small businesses. These countries KNOW that information can and will be pulled from an area unless you have HQ.

This Lame Article Needs a Follow-up

[turkeyfish]

To really understand where technology pools, we need a follow-up article taking a critical look at where are the big dumping grounds for all the IT waste that is generated world-wide.

Where's the story about the real long term impact of the IT industry? Sure we know all about the tabloid glamor, but what about following up to find out where IT technology really "pools"?

Why limit the conversation to IT?

[rlseaman]

People live where they have the means to live. This implies that we all live in a "centre of excellence" of some technology or other. A few hundred yards over my left shoulder sits the Steward Observatory Mirror Lab with huge rotating ovens for making the world's largest telescope optics. This makes Tucson fancy itself "Optics Valley" - at least, we'd undoubtedly appear on the top ten list for optics centers.

Someone has already mentioned Nebraska's claim as "Corn Valley". Think this is silly? Farming is a far more critical infrastructure than IT. What about biotechnologies in general? These will surely have as much to do with writing the history of the 21st century as IT.

Or generalize this to pure research - the fundamental engine of all technology. Obviously Boston would appear on that list, too, as well as the Bay area. L.A., or at least Pasadena, would jump into place. The original Cambridge and/or Oxford. A lot of IT centers would drop right off this list. Let the current recession linger a little too long and the IT centers buoyed up purely by commerce will collapse under the own weight. Those driven by basic innovation will survive just as the ivory towers did during the middle ages.

Re:Make physical geography irrelevant

[Hordeking]

Anyone else picture a guy jumping into a cab and telling the driver to "follow that building"?

Are you the weird guy who's been following me around with the camera as I hungrily stalk buildings in my natural environment?

Re:Make physical geography irrelevant

[Hordeking]

In one Dr. Who episode, the Daleks moved the entire planet.

So, let me get this straight...
The hospital didn't actually move, the Daleks moved the planet out from under it?

Re:Make physical geography irrelevant

[rlseaman]

So, let me get this straight... The hospital didn't actually move, the Daleks moved the planet out from under it?

Different episode, different villains and different seasons, different (at least, extra) sidekicks, for that matter:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/episodes/S3_01 versus http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/episodes/S4_12

Re:Make physical geography irrelevant

[Hordeking]

So, let me get this straight... The hospital didn't actually move, the Daleks moved the planet out from under it?

Different episode, different villains and different seasons, different (at least, extra) sidekicks, for that matter:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/episodes/S3_01 versus http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/episodes/S4_12

Let's make sure I understand this correctly, since maybe I'm not following.
Not only did the hospital not actually move and the Daleks moved the planet out from under it, but they achieved this by moving the episodes out from under the planet, which they did by moving the seasons out from under the episodes, the sidekicks, and the villians?
This just gets freakier and freakier!

Re:Make physical geography irrelevant

[rlseaman]

Let's make sure I understand this correctly, since maybe I'm not following. Not only did the hospital not actually move and the Daleks moved the planet out from under it, but they achieved this by moving the episodes out from under the planet, which they did by moving the seasons out from under the episodes, the sidekicks, and the villians?

Sounds like a typical Doctor Who episode...

There's a reason so many Steeler fans have left ..

[buzz_mccool]

"... Pittsburgh Steelers bars are the visible cultural artifact of a kind of economic diaspora. People in those bars are the refugees who looked at high taxes, union dominance and lousy schools and voted with their feet. ..." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123214881023691891.html

Re:There's a reason so many Steeler fans have left

[coaxial]

Of course the collapse of the steel industry has nothing to do with it. Got to love the WSJ, everything fits their orthodoxy.

Sophia Antipolis (France)

[bebemochi]

I was surprised to see no mention of anywhere in Europe besides Finland and Romania. I've lived in Finland, and most of my friends were Nokia employees -- if Seattle got an honorable mention because it's overshadowed by Microsoft, then it should have been the same for Finland, which is dominated by Nokia. (Yes, Finland has excellent technology schools, and of course, Linus Torvalds, but that too isn't much different from Seattle.)

In France there's Sophia Antipolis, which is the "French Silicon Valley". HP, France Telecom/Orange, the European headquarters of the W3C, and the European Telecommunications Standards Institute are some of the big names here, then there's a plethora of IT consulting companies, called "SSII" in French, and several different technology schools and a university. Not sure how or why it was overlooked.