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German Police Raid Homes of Wikileaks.de Domain Owner
BountyX writes "First and foremost, wikileaks.org is back up after downtime due to server load; however, the German government wants to keep the site down. According to their twitter page, police have raided the home of Wikileaks.de domain owner Theodor Reppe (PDF) over internet censorship lists that were leaked two weeks ago. What the Australian government's secret ACMA internet censorship blacklist has to do with Germany is a mystery. This case is a prime example of multiple governments collaborating in support of censorship." Reader iter8 provides a link to coverage on Wikileaks itself, which says that police searched Reppe's homes in both Dresden and Jena, and adds:
"According to police, the reason for the search was 'distribution of pornographic material' and 'discovery of evidence.' Wikileaks has published censorship lists for Australia, Thailand, Denmark and other countries. Included on the lists are references to sites alleged to contain pornography, including child pornography. Wikileaks has not published any images from the sites."
His house was raided by the cops because he was listed as the registrant for the domain wikileaks.de? Is that what passes for probable cause in the Fatherland?
WTF?
The BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst ~ foreign new service) ie German CIA are still upset over its secret agents getting exposed in a black flag operation in Kosovo.
T-Systems (Deutsche Telekom) was exposed revealing over two dozen secret IP address ranges used by the BND.
The email of a top BND official might have also been listed.
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Bundesnachrichtendienst&fulltext=Search should give slashdot readers some idea as to why Germany is so active around wikileaks.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
To us, it looks like a game of whack-a-mole. To the authorities, however, it may look like a hydra, and I worry that they might start acting like it. If they haven't already.
Athy, athier, athiest.
Apparently the German's have something they want to hide. Power to the people.
Smart move, raiding the home of a person involved in a website devoted to leaking crappy behavior by companies and governments. Even smarter citing wishy-washy reasons for doing so. Real smart.
Silly rabbit
What happened to the whole "Conroy: Go after our source and we'll go for you" thing?
Was their bluff called?
Many posts so far and still no mention of Nazis
we don't need nazis anymore over here. we can fuck up just by ourselves now.
I have to ask because i don't know. If some secret document from the CIA was leaked onto wikileaks, how quick and how hard would the CIA ask for a retraction ? Do we know ? Did this happen ?
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
... however, the German government wants to keep the site down. According to their twitter page, ...
The German government has a twitter page? ;-)
Additive identity, multiplicative cancellation, distributive multiplication over addition: pick any two (unless 1 = 0)
and you are on the wrong site.
Read radical news here
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Keep up the good work, wikileaks. Somebody's got to.
No, they were not. The immense majority of currently living Germans were not even planned at the time of the Nazis. Guilt is not inherited, you know...
Don't they realise that the national wikileaks sites are mirror sites, the guy has nothing to do with the content!
Sure, I'll probably go on a government watch list, but the way things are going we either all already are or soon will be, so why should that be a discouragement?
Because the list is probably numbered, graded and color-coded?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
More seriously, what the fuck did the police think they're doing? They are persecuting people for exposing censorship.
Well, you're a German citizen, right? Germany has, last I checked, a constitutional federal, parliamentary representational democratic republican form of government, correct? Does the Grundgesetz für die Bundesrepublik Deutschland not guarantee your basic rights?
Well, then stand up for them and write your representatives in parliament. Tell them you, as a German citizen, won't stand for the rights of citizens being violated! Tell them that Germany is no longer a gestapo state. The Geheime Staatspolizei is no more! And you won't stand for having it recreated!
My blog
If this looks like the first case of international collaboration over a wikileaks takedown, it could be a sign of things to come.
Wikileaks relies on the fact that, although they piss countries off, they never piss of a lot of countries at once. As such a takedown in one country means little because of its distribution.
However what would happen if something really major got posted on Wikileaks, something that a government would need to go all out to remove. Say someone posted a list identifying all CIA agents. Would the US government make its allies act to take down wiki leaks presence in each of their country? Would they get ICANN involved and order them to wipe all of its urls off the web? Even block all wikileak IPs at a root server level?
The second a website like Wikileaks which tries to evade potential countermeasures becomes a nuisence to enough people, there'll be plans (if they don't already exist, it's hard to see intelligence agencies not having thought about it) drawn up about how you'd go about wiping a site from the internet. If this does happen, it'll have dire consequences about the future of the net.
First post WAS Godwin-ed. Rightfully so judging by the way they're acting. Governments in general suck because the people that want that kind of power and authority are not the kind of people you want with that kind of power and authority. But since they're the only ones going for it . . .
They posted it to ISPs.
And how many governments leak information? ALL OF THEM.
So the AUS government is guilty of distribution of KP links too.
German police to raid Australia in 3, 2, 1...
the "You're-A-Pee-On" Union...
Anymore questions?
Some details of the search raise questions:
* Wikileaks was not contacted before the search, despite Wikileaks having at least two journalists which are recognized members of the German Press Association (Deutscher Presse Verband).
Okay, this is stupid. Do they actually expect the police to kindly ask a suspected criminal if they could raid their premises?
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
By that logic, simply mirroring a child porn site would be okay?
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Don't they realize that the more they tighten their grip the more web systems will slip through their fingers?
It's almost like you can see the rebellious side winning this one from the start.
the problem is, they don't care.
if they write back, they write something along the lines of "i am a professional politician, i was elected so i know better than you what's best for the country".
don't believe me? read it up yourself
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Somebody please mod this down as a troll, I have no points.
It's so easy even I noticed it, and I've been described by people I know as "dense as a bag of rocks."
It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
So does this mean that you are equating Hitler to Adam... does this then make Herman Goering his Eve? *shudder*.
Cheers, Chris
Guilt is not inherited, you know...
If only this were true. Everyone needs a scapegoat and if people near your recent ancestors did anything monumentally bad and your ancestors weren't the victim, then you will be forced by society to wear the sins of whatever group it is until the outrage has died down. It doesn't even matter if you are better towards the victim group than most of society in general.
This runs along the lines of why the US attacked Iraq. Iraq was our scapegoat for a notoriously difficult to find perpetrator of a real crime against the US. Not that Saddam was a stand-up guy, but America needed someone to take it out on that they could actually put their hands on.
Given the contents of those lists, be careful to keep them encrypted and without obvious names linking them to the original files (e.g., first pack them up in an archive with other random files to thwart attempts to match file sizes or other meta-information).
Personally, I wouldn't go near those lists, even if they do contain non-child-porn sites which might be interesting to find. I'm sure that even if I tried to filter out the real child-porn sites using cross-validation, I'd still end up with a lot of more-disgusting-than-goatse stuff which I wouldn't want to wade through.
Steven Conroy will be appearing on a public forum broadcast live on Australian TV on Thursday, March 26, 2009 at 10:30:00 UTC (9:30pm AEST). Questions for this forum can be posted at http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/
My post wasn't a troll, but people like you are why I firmly believe most people should NOT be mods. You disagree with me so your desire is to mod it troll. Maybe, just maybe I disagree with you. Actually considering you brought no value to the conversation I would wager you are the troll.
I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
First of all , i do not believe this story is what it says it is, first off, in today's age of technology and persecution, pedophiles have accepted encryption as a norm , of which any content distributed would not be out in the open as they would have you believe.
Also, hiding behind the premise of "we could show you, but that would incriminate you" is a scam to stem fear into those who would question such tactics. I for one know there is a small margin that is offered in such cases where R&D is needed for that field, and for developing new ways to track if not capture such "types".
Lastly, if we were to hear that the same website also posted personal data or email addresses of government officials or ambassadors to the sited nation, whether in error or not, and then decided not to retract the information posted after being asked nicely, would constitute a good indication of why this cover story is being used.
my 3 cents
There would seem to be a concerted effort across the globe to tighten control of information that gets out to the public. Jay Rockefeller trying to take down the existing(free) version of the internet is another example. One of the many sources of information out there that the "establishment" is concerned about is the Alex Jones Show (or infowars.com) Inform yourself, we are coming to an important time in history where those in power(our so-called leaders) are moving to a global government that has been planned for many years(i am not against global government per-say but i AM against one lead by the current corrupt pricks in power). Also something of interest: The Movie - The Obama Deception One other thing: I Want You to get MAD!!
~ awaiting spiritual enlightenment ~
Organizations like the CIA tend to do whatever the US government wants them to do
Yes that is a duh statement. They are employees of the US gov't and do what the US gov't wants. Just like the KGB did what the Communist Russian gov't wanted. Just like the Mossad does what the Israeli gov't wants. Makes sense.
This may include trying to save lives (but, most probably that would be in actuality, lives of citizens of the US and, to some extent, its allies), but it most likely also includes things like toppling foreign governments which the US dislikes, irrespective if this would likely make Americans safer.
Yes the CIA tries to topple gov'ts and while there can be abuse your statement of "irrespective" makes it sound like that is their primary goal. I would argue their primary goal is to make the US safer. You would have to prove otherwise.
It is really not clear, and actually rather unlikely, that the CIA is able to accurately predict the consequences of its present-day actions on the future safety of US
Nobody can accurately predict the future - but when you stop a terrorist cell you are pretty sure you did something to help save lives - or do you think terrorist cells are going to support the Infidels?
The reality, if you would take off your glasses, is that as long as everything the CIA really does is kept secret from you, you have no idea whatsoever if what they do is actually what you believe they do. After living for a while in an Internet-enabled world, I, for one, become less and less willing to blindly believe whatever the US government tells me "the CIA is doing for me".
The reality is I do not wear glasses, nor contacts. My vision is 100% fine - so is my perception of reality. While I do not know everything the CIA does I realize I do not need to know everything. If everyone knew every inch of the CIA there is no way they would be effective. It would be in the news "CIA investigates Joe"...well first, Joe may get harassed by people as many may already assume Joe is a criminal (hey if you are being investigated you did something wrong)...second if Joe was a criminal may stop or shift his activities foiling CIA plans to figure this out.
I am not asking you or anyone to blindly believe the US gov't is 100% kosher - make sure you vote and get the right people into office...or better yet, get yourself into office and on the right comittees. Join the CIA/FBI and do the right thing - but realize secrets are needed because our enemies have no qualms about using secrets or using our knowledge against us.
I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
> but realize secrets are needed because our enemies have no qualms
> about using secrets
I daresay that any information which has hit Wikileaks is 99.9% likely to previously already be known to any intelligence agencies which would be interested in it. All Wikileaks is doing is letting us see it also. Security through obscurity is usually bad security.
> or using our knowledge against us.
So it's good that we remain as uninformed as possible? Yes, I understand that you probably didn't mean it that way. Just couldn't resist.
There is a fine balance which needs to be maintained between secrecy which protects the public interest and secrecy which is against the public interest. It's not clear to me that this raid, or rather, having secret Internet censorship lists, falls in the "protects the public interest" side. Even if I think people producing, selling, or distributing child pornography should have their own special corner in a Hell which I don't even believe in.
That's it. NO PORN FOR YOU!!!
...
I'm sorry, but just... no.
You post that "you're not sure what they are posting on their site," even though it says it right in the summary. You make sure and state that you "don't know," because if you did read the summary, you wouldn't be here applauding these actions.
Then you come out and talk about how it's great that "countries are working together to fight crime," even though that has absolutely no bearing on what this story is about.
Conclusion, you're a troll.
It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
Guilt is not inherited, you know...
Tell that to American blacks.
Free Martian Whores!
A delicious irony lies in that sentence. :)
Ignorance and apathy are the two more dangerous diseases of our time, and very difficult to cure. Take the Red pill.
~ awaiting spiritual enlightenment ~
Summary makes it sound like the government uses Twitter.
... at the time of the Nazis. Guilt is not inherited, you know...
Italics added by me. You would think that most people would realize this simple statement that guilt is not passed from generation to generation. I might be starting a flame war but the Germans (unless their actions dictate it) do not deserve to be treated as Nazis, just as caucasians/whites from the USA do not deserve to be treated as slave-owners, just as every black person does not deserve to be treated as a thug/gangster, just as every Oriental person does not deserve to be treated as a math genius, and just as every other racial/ethnic stereotype does not deserve to exist.
But they do. It is one of our human failings that, in some respects, the internet is breaking down and I for one am supremely glad of that fact. Unfortunately, we have Governments stepping in to shut down, block, black list, and filter the internet and it always boils down to one reason - power by control. I'm not saying we're headed to a utopia, but one can hope. I think we are more on our way to a global village that breaks down and lessens the control of governments power over their people. The free flow of information, even incorrect information, scares those in power because it gives control to the people. An informed populace is a well-armed populace. The power of knowledge cannot be denied and the more information an individual has, the better he/she can take charge of their lives.
Keep this firmly in mind when someone, anyone, tells you that a specific piece of information must be kept away from the people for reasons of security. Or for the "good of the children". Or for any of the myriad of other reasons those in power seek to deny the people they represent - and are supposed to maintain the freedoms of - the key points behind a law, or a treaty, or anything that is of consequence.
I'll stop my rant now and jump off this soap box. I think I hear the black 'copters hovering outside now...
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
How can you get in trouble for linking to a site that is on the "bad" list, if you aren't allowed to know what is actually on the "bad" list? I know I must be missing something. Will they actually fine people for linking to a site that is secretly on the "bad" list? What would stop them from fining anyone they wanted for linking to any random thing if there is no list for the link-er to consult ahead of time? Do they assume that what is on the "bad" list is so obviously illegal that anyone that links to it deserves what they get? Are they just afraid people will use the "bad" list as a salacious index to the best of the worst of the internet?
But there you go, 25 EUR sent on their way.
...
Just watched an interview on TV with some guy who is representating interests of (some) ISPs in germany. He actually referred to the leaked Australian censorship list and how it was used to block sites that were not cp. He also mentioned that they are already forced (not by law, but somehow else) by government to block access to certain sites and how they are already breaking laws by doing so.
The interviewer didn't react to these statements at all - I mean, c'mon, he just said (some) ISPs in germany break the law many times because government wants them to - but just went on with some stupid questions about how germany still hasn't such censorship laws although they work so flawlessly in other countries
That's sickening.
From the summary " According to their twitter page, police have raided the home of Wikileaks.de domain owner ...."
I can just see it. "Arresting transsexual prostitute on 5th St." and "Eating a free jelly filled donut"
I read Slashdot for the headlines, because the headlines, unlike the articles, are usually original and never duplicated
You're missing the point. The Nazi party wasn't just something beamed into Germany from outer-space, it represented real social / political feeling that people felt they had the right to express; something like that just doesn't go away.
Fascism isn't unique to Germany and it doesn't always declare itself as such. We have the BNP here in the UK and both our main parties (Labour & Tory) have, in certain cases, adopted far-right rhetoric on things immigration, race and human rights in order to appeal to BNP voters.
An AC below made the point that the Nazis were ordinary people just like us. That's the key to understanding fascism, the idea that "the end justifies the means" or that it's OK to ignore human rights because we're the "good guys" is what lead the the atrocities not just of the Nazi holocaust but also Stalin's gulags.
Nick
That's not a bad idea: move it to a country where we already know about the human rights abuses!
Nick
If you had something to say, you would say it with a name, not anonymously. Obviously you either lack the balls, or are frightened of people who think your a raving lunatic being able to ignore you, as they should be able to. Either that or your paranoid delusions have grown to the point where you really think that "they" (they of course being people of differing opinion, i.e. the conspiracy) will come and get you for coughing up your own personal version of the "truth".
Personally the fourth option is the most viable, your a stupid troll. Meaning your probably some form of teenager, probably socially maligned by your peer group, probably in ill physical shape, and probably lashing out under the cover of anonymity since you lack the ability to do so in real life. In other words, a genuinely pathetic individual.
I'm not even sure if you have a valid point, since I still haven't bothered to read a single of your bizarre rants, since they are not presented in a way that grants a single shred of credibility. You sound like a schizophrenic hobo, thus the only accord you deserve is perhaps a pitiable glance, and some beer money. You have no valid sources, and your just quoting right wing talk-show conspiracy theories, none of it is new, most of it is long refuted or disproven, and most of it is lazy ad-hoc justification for being firmly trompted in a popular election by people who are completely sick of your backwards, harmful, political ideologies which are based on nothing more than shallow theories, and personal feelings of petty greed and Ayn Randian idiocy. Oh, and a large helping of "Sky Daddy says so".
Good for you. Now go shut up and let the adults talk. /. really needs to get rid of open "AC" access, its getting annoying. Keep the AC action, but force registration to use it, so I can block these "copypasta" morons. Since the death of goatse, and the advent of overly political rantings, they've lost their amusement value.
Oh, and I hear that Obama and HITLER have been having dinner together a lot lately? Any thoughts?
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
At a guess, Eva would be his Eve.
Sorry, but if you're going to try a joke, at least avoid the obviously shite ones.
I would argue their primary goal is to make the US safer. You would have to prove otherwise.
Easy enough:
The Central Intelligence Agency's primary mission is to collect, evaluate, and disseminate foreign intelligence to assist the president and senior US government policymakers in making decisions relating to the national security.
Mind you, I acknowledge that the two goals are not entirely exclusive. But "make the US safer" is very broad and leaves a lot of discretion, whereas "collect, evaluate, and disseminate foreign intelligence" is specific and narrow. For the record:
The CIA may also engage in covert action at the president's direction in accordance with applicable law.
But note that this is under the direction of the President, within Congress' laws as evaluated by SCOTUS. Also pretty narrow.
Viewpoint I don't like: "I don't care if governments are abusing their power, England must prevail."
Obvious troll: "I don't know what's going on, and I haven't read the article, but I'm sure that these governments are doing what's right."
See the difference?
No, of course you don't -- what am I wasting my time for...
It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
No, they were not. The immense majority of currently living Germans were not even planned at the time of the Nazis. Guilt is not inherited, you know...
I hear a lot of people aren't planned either.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
The last American black guy I was talking to had done his time in the Marines - not only had he worked really hard to get where he was, he was also a genuinely nice guy.
So fuck you.
"It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
Maybe the next Auschwitz will happen on Polish grounds instead. Oh, wait...
Don't get me wrong, I see the merit of posting anonymously, and the need for it to be an option, but what really pisses me off is the trolling. There's a difference between free speech and the bullshit we always see within the first three posts. It's enough to make me give up moderation and browse at +4 (is +4 even an option?). I normally browse at -1 so I can mod people up when they've been unfairly modded down, but there's been an explosion in trolling lately, and it's getting impossible to sift the good comments from the bad. Look at the majority of the replies to the comment I'm replying to. It's a fair bet they're all by one or two different people. Can't we IP-ban repeat offenders? Sometimes it's not obvious what's a troll and what's unpopular, but when you see the same shit pasted into post after post after post, I'd say it's likely that's a troll.
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
twittering... it's what parliaments are good at.
The page I viewed this morning had this mornings date on it.
The current page is what was up 5 days ago, the 20th of march.
All information about the search warrent, etc. , since it had not happened on yet, on the 20th, is now absent from the main page.
So is this site (which links to the list of sites which include child porn) also distributing child porn under that same logic? If we go to Wikileaks are we then also breaking the law? How do we verify the sites on the list are legitimate to be censored without looking at the list? It seems to me that by making the list the government itself is also 'storing' child porn. It is a catch 22. Also, if the German government knew about the list and had seen it or possessed it then aren't they also storing child porn too? I don't see how anyone can get around this obvious contradiction.
The Germans, like many other NATO members, apparently don't take their alliance commitments seriously. As an American I find it extremely disappointing that we've staked our blood and treasure on defending the freedom of our NATO Allies for generations and many of them can't even be bothered to send troops without caveats to Afghanistan. You do recall where Article 5 was invoked right?
Apparently the NATO alliance is a one way street. Thanks Europe.
Afghanistan isn't a member of NATO, and the USA is not being directly attacked by Afghanistan, If anything it was Saudi Arabia which launched the attack.
And in any event there is no immediate threat to the US.
(and since Germany was the aggressor in the second world war they can hardly be said to owe the US for their intervention in that instance.)
http://michaelsmith.id.au
I'm seriously considering printing and laminating copies of those fear posters to use here in New Zealand. First I'll put the rubbish-fear poster on the side of my council wheelie bin.
Then I'll splash the fear-CCTV-watchers poster somewhere prominent in town (I gather there are 30 CCTV in Cathedral Square alone).
I'm more tempted than ever to add a reassuring poster to any traffic counter I see. "ATTENTION, VISITING BOSTONITES: This is not a roadside bomb. It is not even a Mooninite. It is a traffic counter. DO NOT BE AFRAID!"
I expect people to fall over in the streets laughing when they realise that the posters are more than mere derivatives of the propaganda posters in Terry Gilliam's Brazil.
Blancmange
A delicious irony lies in that sentence. :)
And the bitter tradegy is that it doesn't just apply to Germany, but everywhere that politicians/parties manipulate gullible/uninformed citizens for their vote.
Guilt is not inherited, you know...
Tell that to American blacks.
It was some American whites who felt *guilt*. What *some* American blacks feel is not guilt, but *resentment*, but you're right in that its now become counter-productive to hold onto that resentment for this long.
Of course the guilty always get over their crimes long before their victims get over it, so I'm not at all surprised.
There are a number of congruencies between this and the 1995 raids by Scientology...see Alt.Scientology.War cover story in Wired Magazine December 1995.
In 1995 an anonymous remailer in Amsterdam called anon.penit.fi run by Johan Helsingus was visited by police, who sought the the logs, using an excuse (cover story, shore story, suitable guise) that there was pornography involved...
Johan's remailer had been used backthen, for posting Scientology secret rubbish to the net...by a nickname "scamizdat" which turned out to be an ex-scientologist named Joe Harrington... who admitted this on his death bed.
I believe that complaints about the porno turned out have come from scientology...
I just got raided and sued by the scientologists for posting the XENU story, that you guys watched on South Park a while ago..
Wikileaks has been recently publishing thousands of pages of scientology secrets and internal memorandums...
Perhaps history is repeating itself?
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind that live fearing to speake The Internet is the liberty tree
Why doesn't someone do something useful with their programming expertise and deliver the real news straight to people's boxes?
How difficult would it be to set a million people's homepages to a news article, and make the public aware of what's going on?
If people are going to get viruses anyway, can't we make them useful?
Or christians
I think you're referring to Jews and Muslims -- Christians are forgiven. You Christian-bashers (and most so-called "Christians" I daresay) would do well to read the first four books of the new testament to see what Christ actually taught.
Hint - it isn't "god hates fags". The actual quote is "God is love". Gays, just like everyone else, are forgiven.
Free Martian Whores!
WTF does that have to do with the fact that the more racist, extremist blacks are trying to get reparations from me for what my anscestors may or may not have done?
You think the guy you're talking about is the only black guy who was ever in the service, or worked hard? WTF is your problem?
Free Martian Whores!
My ancestors were Union soldiers in the Civil War, and before that other of my ancestors were part of the Underground Railroad who risked their lives and freedom freeing your anscestors. Who owes who what, now?
Free Martian Whores!
Beautiful! I'll do that!
Blancmange