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Tesla Releases First Official Photos of Model S Sedan
Thelasko writes "After several pictures of the Model S were leaked onto the internet, Jalopnik has the first official pictures of the Model S. One of its most striking features is its massive touchscreen in place of the center console."
taking it home, and noticing a bad pixle, what a buzzkill.
Quote from the third link:
"it has a 3G connection all the time."
"There's HD, AUX, USB and iPod input to the car"
"there's no start button. You just sit there and wait for the car to detect your RFID presence."
Keep on building kinda cool stuff that noone actually wants & they'll keep having their lunch eaten by the Japanese & Koreans.
My pics.
If everything 'leaked' to the internet was actually leaked, the whole internet would only be as secure as a Microsoft server.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Did they run out of ways to increase the sticker price on this thing and make up for it by just covering every surface in leather? Does the car for the 21st century have to look like a cow died in it?
The only thing I really want to see is how this thing is charged. How could that picture possibly be omitted?
Call me old fashion, but the center console of a car is a place where I prefer to have physical controls that don't need to be looked at in order to use. Perhaps they plan to back it up with some other type of UI, such as voice recognition or a HUD?
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/index.php
Alright, the /internal/ tech might be neat, but...
It looks just like EVERY OTHER CAR put out in the last 20 years.
Seriously, have car makers forgotten to make a car look like anything other than a squashed jelly bean?
Tech might be nice, but it's just as dull and unimaginatevly plain looking as just about every other soulless melted bean blob out there.
Dissapointing.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
In an all electric car?
Would these cut into range compared to primarially analog dials and switches with displays only for navigation/ stereo readout?
Also, note the displays in place of the guage cluster.
Of course you have to pay the shipping to cart it to California every TWELVE THOUSAND MILES to have it serviced by the only authorized Tesla mechanics in the world, unless of course you want to void your warranty. I wonder what being without your car for a month every year feels like. Surely the $3000 you pay for shipping is less than what you saved that year on gas, right? Another little detail is that the battery life is 100,000 miles. Umm, I would hate to think how much replacing the batteries costs. Providing Tesla doesn't follow the Apple pricing plan, they might cost less than a new car.
I guess it's fine if you live in LA, or within 200 miles of the dealership. Now we need more dealerships/repair centers asap if this is going to go anywhere...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
*blink* I dunno what exactly this says about why the car was built, but I think there is an employee at Tesla who needs a hug.
What if you want to sit in the car without it being on? Do you have to wait for it to start up, then turn it off in the console?
You must be under 25.
You're so enthralled by glassy shiny things like your iPhone (and everyone else's) that the idea of physical controls with physical, tactile feedback is automatically old hat.
The very fact that you had to spend time learning to type on your little Apple-branded toy proves the inappropriateness of touchscreen controls in situations where you should be focusing on something else - like, say, driving. With physical controls you can 'feel around' for something. With a touch screen, you HAVE to look.
I also call bullshit on your "eyes closed" assertion. Try it. You won't finish a single goddamned paragraph. No peeking, now.
Driver: Learn to drive you motherfucking asshole.
Car: Please clam down, your aggravation is safety hazard.
Driver: Fuck you Car! If you don't shut the fuck up I'm going to drive you into something.
Car: That would not be advisable, attempting that may result in property damage and injury.
Driver: Want to see... (Then slams car into a tree, in an attempt to teach the car a lesson)
Does it run Linux?
Dj fuQ [url="http://djfuq.org"]djfuq urges you to listen to the beats[/url] [url="http://djfuq.org"]http://djfuq.org[
I wonder what it takes to damage this screen? Could a 4 year old kick it in? Or would it crack if some large cargo in the passenger seat shifted into it?
Yet another step away from user-maintainable automobiles.
The authorized service mechanics are going to love this.
Does the US have no public transportation? Who wants to drive 2,5 hrs if he could just lean back and relax instead :-)
Fuck you!
I'm afraid I can't do that Dave
I heard it would retail for $50,000. That's 25 Tata Nanos. It's a little more than 2 of my current car when it was brand new (I drive a '07 Honda Civic). Oh, and my Honda can just... you know... fill up when it gets to the end of its range.
I think I'll pass on this. The hybrid Aptera still looks promising though. I think Tesla kinda blew it. The sportster is cool, I live near their HQ and see them all the time. It may end up as a very special collector car. Hmmm... the roadster might be a better investment than the company.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Yeah, right. And Steve Guttenberg's a star because he's a good actor.
I think electric cars will drop in price below that of a gas car in under 10years. I'm talking total cost not just initial though. Generally though. I think for a trip over 2hours it makes sense to take public transit... NVM... Its kinda silly that's not in place for you. Torrington to NYC round trip is like 65bucks. By car gas is about 26$. How ridiculous is it that a bus where you split the cost between 30 other people ends up almost twice the cost.
:S And buses can hold 45people so that's at below half capacity with the business taking a 20% cut ontop... Stupid monopolies
Going on a tangent: It'd cost the bus about 40$ in gas (7mpg), 80$ on a driver (15$/hr), 10$ maintenance, 20$ for stops and offices, over 20people... should cost around 9.00$
Ok, we get it. This car is almost, but ultimately, not for you. But I think it is for anyone who A) lives w/in 100mi from a repair shop, and B)
1. likes public transport every once in a while, or
2. has a 2nd vehicle, or
3. lives with someone with a vehicle they can borrow, or
4. takes long trips so seldom they don't mind the public transport
OR, anyone who has enough money to afford sending the car off for repairs and has a concern for the environment, or doesn't like sending money to the middle east, where some ends up in the hands of al queida, or believes in global warming, or likes to show off their tech, etc.
Keep in mind that although they have finally shown the world their new saloon car, it won't be available for purchase until Q3-Q4 of 2011. Which means we have almost three full years before this car will actually be rolling out onto a street at all.
Think about any concept car you've ever seen, and then think about all of the nifty conceptual bits that weren't there 2-3 years later when the car actually went to production.
All of that said, I like the look of the car, but I'd prefer something smaller and not quite so heavy. Then again, as a single male, I'm not the target demographic for a large saloon that seats seven. I wish they'd produce something like the Roadster for the price point of this car.
The US has no public transportation. At least not any effective public transportation, except possibly sidewalks and a bike.
Not a sentence!
Does anybody remember how GM Volt prototype looked like. I said to myself "wow, I want that car". When they start to actually selling that car, it look like Seat Toledo of my grandpa.
Except bike == on same roads as cars. I'm been hit by cards twice just walking down the sidewalk, I don't think I'd want to try a bike.
That touchscreen is unattractive and a human engineering disaster. It is far too crowded and "busy", the controls are poorly laid out, and even color is used badly.
Talk about "distracted driving"! This thing should be outlawed.
It sounds like parent is being snarky but he's not. The U.S. has no public transit. There are probably less than a half-dozen major urban markets where you can survive without a car. Everywhere else it's pretty much a daily necessity. And I speak as one who doesn't own a car -- I am a bigtime anomaly and my choice not to drive does force me to make sacrifices.
Breakfast served all day!
When one drives a car for any length of time, one gets to know the controls by feel. Good human engineering properly separates the controls not only by look, but also by position, shape and feel.
When you CAN'T feel, you are forced to look at the controls every time, taking your eyes off the road. In addition, the controls are crowded close together, further necessitating taking your attention off the road.
Very, very poor design.
There are a lot of places in the Bay Area where a drive into San Francisco would be around 45 miles. That's less than an hour of freeway driving. The trick here is that most people also want to drive home again. What's the use of driving a car into the city if the only place you can drive it is to a shop where they can plug it in and recharge it while you're at your appointment? (And then you have to take the bus from the recharge hookup to wherever you were going?)
Breakfast served all day!
The US has public transportation in some places. In many places that have it however, you will not "lean back and relax" for a length of time comparable to what it would take you to drive.
I know somebody with a medical license suspension. For something that the system is designed to do, it's OK. Downtown San Jose to Mountain View? Not bad. Suburban San Jose to Half Moon Bay? Yeah, you can do it--in, IIRC, 5 or 6 hours. That's assuming you catch the transfers. He got part way by PT, and I drove him over the hills.
Then there are some economic factors that work against it too. Caltrain from Redwood City to San Francisco? A day pass is $8 (maybe less if you ride often, but probably not astoundingly less). If two people want to take this trip, that's $16. Now, if we carpool, the car burned $8 worth of gas, and this was when gas was $4/gal. By splitting the gas, we've already dropped the round trip cost to $4 a head.
This is why a car pool wins big vs. PT. You can't really "train pool"... it's already pooled. A 4-person carpool from Redwood City to SF would cost $2/person if they split the gas. You have to multiply $4/gal gas by a factor of FOUR to beat that... $16/gal! Of course, the 2-person carpool breaks even with the train at $8/gal. Isn't gas in most EU countries about $8/gal? Maybe that's what you have to do in order to make PT economical. It won't happen in the US, because it's a political non-starter. The only way for gas to cost that much here is because oil costs that much, and then in that case the PT system has to raise prices too. The only way to make PT the better option is to tax the living daylights out of gas, and use the proceeds to build PT. I don't see that happening unless actual gas shortages arise, and by then it would have to be hardcore, emergency PT buildouts just to save towns from isolation--real, dire, WWII style gas rationing.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Cars are, first and foremost, for getting from point A to point B. The ideal is to do so comfortably.
The touchscreen looks like it would do anything but. I can imagine:
1) The backlit display interfering with night vision, even at a very low brightness level
2) Being unable to do simple - trivial - things, like change the radio station or skip a CD/mp3 track without looking away from the road.
3) Being able to quickly and efficiently finding (visually) the appropriate widget to tell you the information you're looking for.
That touchscreen doesn't even have widgets of a size and type which help you quickly identify what you're looking for! They look like mock-buttons, ffs! Weather/temp in particular.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Also... me, me, me, me, me!
Dude, you're probably not the target market. This ain't a mass-market product, and if you can't afford two cars (or a train ticket) you probably can't afford this ride.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
I don't think I'm alone in not being able to reasonably buy two cars - an electric one for most stuff and a gasoline one for when I need to go on a longer trip. The S-Series would not even be able to get me reliably to a city 2.5 hours from my home, like Boston - and it's not unusual for me to drive to a city like Boston.
Anyone that can afford a 55 grand S-Series Tesla can afford a 10 grand, 30mpg gas Kia.
The problem is that a 2 hour trip by car will probably be 3 hours by bus. And that's without counting the drive to the bus station, and the wait for the bus. And then there's the problem of transportation on the other side, if you're traveling to multiple destinations in one city. So, in other words, screw public transportation.
I live in one city, and every weekend I drive my car to another city to visit friends and family. The trip is about 180km (112 miles) each way. It simply makes no sense at all for me to take public transit. It's cheaper and much more convenient to drive. And I actually like driving, which is a bonus.
This is getting closer to my price range, but it doesn't appear to have any kind of cooling system, at least they've been mum on the subject so I assume that's the case. As I live in Texas, that's a pretty big deal... Tesla: Here's an idea... Given that there's space under the hood that's not being used, install some Vortex Tubes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube) in the front of the car and funnel the cooled air into the cab for A/C. It would only work while you were moving fast enough to generate the compressed air, but it would be better than nothing.
I am glad they had the good taste to copy maserati ...
...does it run Linux? It is only a matter of time before someone (with a shitload of money) starts porting Debian. Could make for some interesting driving. Seriously though, what do you do when this thing won't boot? Makes for some interesting driving.
If you don't know what you're doing, you can't make mistakes.
The car itself looks nice on the outside, but my first thought about the interior was, "the center console makes BMW's iDrive look good."
The irony is that we just had a /. article about tactile feedback in keyboards.
Forget 20%. You have to double it first ($18) and THEN see what profit you get after subtracting all the costs you didn't mention - new buses, driver pensions, idle maintenance workers, inspections, license fees, parking lot property taxes, etc.
:) $150 in costs (your estimate) / 5 passengers = $30 each, and then double it = $60-something. There you go.
In theory, all of these fixed costs can go to zero - IF you do enough business. But in practice, with weak demand, you generally have to shoot for 100% profit margin and you might eke out 20% in the end.
Half-capacity can be seen as a generous assumption. For all you know, these buses run with 5 passengers - and profitably. Maybe that's where the $65 comes from
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article5483422.ece
Since you're still here, I assume neither was the ace of spades?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
When was the last time you had to pay for tyres, licence, insurance, oil, maintenance, spares, hire vehicle, exhaust, brakes, lights, wipers, parking, speeding tickets etc ... on public transport.
You can't compare the fuel costs of a car to public transport and complain about the price of public transport. Compare the real costs, including those caused to commerce by congestion caused by too many cars.
I used to give a guy a lift to work, but he never once gave me a penny towards it, even though I asked. So I stopped doing it. Even if you pay part of the fuel bill, it doesn't mean you are covering the costs of the ride being available in the first place.
Will it run Linux?
I do not want to cast a shadow on the glitzy Techfuture, but that looks like a lot of trouble on impact. I never read anything about extensive crash tests and the fate of the battery pack (or a disintegrating massive touchscreen...) at a velocity of say 35mph or 50mph. It took the gasoline eating kind of car decades to grow a gas tank that doesn't turn your car into blazing firework (Ford Mustang, anyone?). Toyota and all the others too promote every Five Star Rating in Crash Tests, but that topic is always kept very quite when it comes to hybrids and their battery packs. Not to compare apples and oranges here, but I still smell the scent of last year's burning laptops...
likes public transport every once in a while
People are actually willing to do that? They mustn't live where I'm living of two thirds of the places I've been internationally.
has a 2nd vehicle
Not sure why this is relevant, wouldn't you be creating more pollution by doing this (capital costs etc.)
lives with someone with a vehicle they can borrow
In other words the 50 grand car you bought is too shit for you to use so you have to use theirs.
takes long trips so seldom they don't mind the public transport
If they don't mind taking public transport then why are they buying a $50,000+ car? So basically you have to be rich and have some sort of environmental idealism or tech/car hobby... you could of just said that.
This car is almost, but ultimately, not for you
Nor for anyone else either
First (R)oadster, then Model S... I wonder if Model T comes next?
Affordable Tesla for the masses?
Aha! My first thought when I read the anonymous comment about public transportation was "exactly, why not take the bus if you need to go for a long ride?". I've never felt the need for a car and always take the bus to work. During rush hour there's a bus every 5 minutes departing from "my" city to the city where I work, so I never have to check any timetable. I'd love to see a low performance short range cheap mass produced electric car. I don't need 0-100km/h in 3 seconds / or > 50 miles range when driving to the store. What I DO need is some way to transport myself short distance in the rain when I don't wanna take the bike.. I live in Sweden btw.
Look at how the front ends of most cars in Europe have grown more substantial all in the name of pedestrian safety. Top regulations of the human kind with regulations of the natural kind; think drag; and what can we truly expect?
Aptera? Get real, the thing is too wide and it still is a three wheeler. The thing people fail to understand is that a wedge shape front is not necessarily the best for aerodynamics, those Ferraris and Lambos we see aren't the best in many cases for aerodynamics - they actually need to manipulate the air for down force as sticking to the road is more important than getting mileage.
My beef with the S is the center console. Sorry, if my car is going to look like a computer it better damn well drive itself. Even then I don't want it to be intrusive and that giant LCD is very intrusive. I don't need a Christmas tree in my car. Frankly I think todays cars and tech give people too many distractions from the responsibility of driving.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Think about it. This is a sedan and it costs 50K. If you afford a 50K car, then you WILL own several cars. To be honest, this car is not for everyone. But it will almost certainly be ideal for the 2'nd car.
With that said, I really wish that Tesla would have done a minivan first AND added the option for a trailer. The electrics have a limited range, and are better suited for the family car. A minivan will appeal to a lot of women who have 2-3 kids and want to haul dogs, grocery, etc. The trailer hitch is not to pull a regular load, but a mini trailer that contains a power source (say a ICE/generator or a fuel cell or a JTEP). That would encourage new add-ons by others.
Speaking of add-ons, HOEFULLY, the car should have a pluggable bus to encourage new cards to be built just for this. What they need is buy-in by other vendors.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
the company has a number of car dealers opening up all over the world. By 2011, I suspect that there will be more than enough that most ppl in the west will be within 200 miles of a center.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The range of the S-Series is reported to be about 150 miles, with plans for a 300-mile extended range version (which will cost thousands more). The original intent was 225 miles, but they've since brought that down to 150. The 300 mile upgrade, (assuming it's not vaporware) won't be around for a while.
... and that's why I won't buy an electric car. A range of 225 miles would take me from my house to *just* within pushing range of my Mum's house. After a four-hour drive, especially in something with as little suspension travel as that appears to have, I wouldn't much feel like pushing it. I'd probably just abandon it and walk the rest of the way. Oh, except then I wouldn't be able to plug it in and charge it for 12 hours, so I'd *need* to push it.
I think I'll stick with my low-tech 21-year-old Citroen CX, which can get there and most of the way back on a single tank of fuel, can be refilled in about two minutes very cheaply, and doesn't require a highly specialised workshop to fix it when it goes wrong.
That pretty much requires a bigger car, or a 3rd row holding 2. With that being a small back end, how do they do that?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The total cost of ownership of an average car is ~ $0.50 a mile.
Can we assume a 2 hour trip is ~100 miles?
The cost is closer to $50 (one way) than the $26 you quote.
You are also grossly underestimating the maintenance costs of a bus. $0.10 a mile it is not.
So $100 vs $65 - bus wins on cash considerations. Cost of time is a whole other story.
Also there's this fancy new invention called car rental.
Electric cars have had an acceptable range of about at least 60 Km with one charge, since a long time. That's acceptable for 95% of the people, that is, for the great majority.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
The hybrid Aptera still looks promising though. I think Tesla kinda blew it. The sportster is cool, I live near their HQ and see them all the time. It may end up as a very special collector car. Hmmm... the roadster might be a better investment than the company.
I am willing to bet, that their production line will be full for the first 3 years of this car. As it is, the roadster is a total sell out even at double the price. Aptera? I am guessing that they will sell OK, but will not be years our for sales UNTIL the next oil crisis. At that time, the Atera's sales will occur quickly (just like the prius). But I would still guess that Tesla S will sell more in their first month, than Aptera sells in their first year. The simple fact is, that Aptera's price will appeal to lower sells, but the body style and the company will not. OTH, Musk is selling to those WITH LOADS OF MONEY. In addition, it is to their liking.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Tesla provides good models of a car, However the security issues are there. I heard that the battery of Tesla cars gets explode sometimes and looks are not that much change. In Tesla i just like the body of its doors. Rest of everything is fine and yes cost is to much. I think a middle class person can't afford that. www.Start-an-Internet-business.net
seriously, you think that each one of you is the first to think of these issues? well we might as well not have microwaves because what if the timer doesn't work and it blows up....like the guy that says, "as a first responder the first thing i do is shut the car off.....blah blah blah" yeah tesla hire all these incredibly smart engineers and they probably designed a car that moves on its own if it is in a wreck. are you stupid? seriously, are you dumb? maybe help yurself the the faqs on the tesla website and maybe, just maybe a little common sense. just about the idiotic first responder remark, i guess cars right now that are in a wreck switch out of gear and turn themselves off? no, the car stays running and in gear until it is shut off, so how is the tesla car any different in that respect than any other car? even mistubishi monterro's have the rfid option. how many of those have taken off under their own power after a wreck? i can't even read any more of these idiotic doomsday posts about how bad the car will be.
Every time you check it, it'll be open.
Deleted
I have the same reservations about the Chevy Volt. How many people (especially people who typically buy a Chevrolet) would be able to afford a car the premium that car is going to cost in order to save a few $$ on gas each week. I'm sure something like that would be great for my daily commute to work (about 4 miles each way) but as soon as I leave town I'll be burning through the gasoline probably at a higher rate than a normal car of compariable size.
The Tesla Model S seems a bit more practicle since it has a longer range.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
For all the people who drive more than 100 miles a day, I bet there are just as many people who drive less than that. Sure, it may not make sense for you to get one, and that's fine. But for plenty of people something like this is fantastic.
I don't understand why these electric and hybrid cars don't have solar panels. Sure, you couldn't meet 100%, or even 50% or 20% of the car's needs on the small amount of roof space available, but that wouldn't make it completely useless. What if you could power 5% of the car's needs that way? Even 1% or 0.5% would be better than nothing.
You charge the car as normal from your home power supply and set off on a full tank, and drive until that charge is all used. Let's say 100 miles. But while you were driving the car was sucking up photons, giving you enough juice for maybe an extra couple of miles. 102 miles is better than 100, right?
Or maybe (more likely) you only use half a tank before coming home to recharge again, but that "solar time" while you were out means that it will now be a few minutes quicker and a few pennies cheaper to charge back up to 100% than if you hadn't been using a supplemental power source. Not world-shatteringly great, but better than a kick in the teeth, surely?
For those rare times when the car is out of use for extended periods, it might even be a viable complete charging mechanism. You could drive to the airport, park it up in a sunny spot, go away on holiday/ business for a week or two and come home to a full tank!
A small increase in the vehicle's range is still an increase, and range is the big deal-breaker with electric vehicles. Therefore anything that increases range, even fractionally, ought to be utilised. What's more, the big selling point of these cars is green-cred, and nothing says "green" like solar panels!
Given the huge cost of these electric vehicles, a few hundred extra [currency] on some panelling wouldn't seem like a big deal.
What am I missing?
From the look of it I was thinking either Lexas or BMW. The back makes me think Toyota, but the wheels and the proximity of the wheels to the car body makes me think BMW.
I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
I've often thought, the answer to this was a portable generator module (designed for the car). Unlike a hybrid, you have a simple electric car for 360 days a year, and when, on occasion, you need to go a long ways, you "hitch" up a generator module, perhaps as a trailer, or as something that simply attaches to the back bumper or roof rack. It could even be a rental system, that way, getting a generator module could by mechanized in gas station-like facility.
"Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
This car would be sold at the price of 49.900 USD, and after a tax deduction of the original price and considering it would have a inexpensive maintenance and refueling: "Because of tax incentives and relatively inexpensive maintenance and refueling, the lifetime ownership cost will be closer to cars with far lower sticker prices. [...] The Model S will become the car of choice for environmentally conscious and discriminating drivers throughout North America and Europe."
Cool! So now they built a relatively environmentally friendly concept that has so many power consuming features that it uses a whole cole power plant on its own. Way to go greenies!
And crashing one of these babies because you're looking for a particular pixel to push on the touch screen would create quite some environmentally unfriendly mess. Blood and all...
So, because it's a car that will suffice for only 90% of trips for 90% of the driving public, it's a total failure?
One extremely nasty stop and go traffic jam or unexpected detour and I could be dead on the side of the road.
And you can't walk or hitch a ride to get a can of gas to resume your trip. Either you pay for a tow or you come back with a generator. This is why hybrids make more sense.
Until the car + gps + google can actually warn you that you're not going to make it to the next charging station, electric cars only make sense for very local trips.
We need to start rating these electric cars by their efficiency. I don't care about the 0-60 time or top speed. I want to know the cost to run it (both to my wallet and to the environment). So how many miles does it get per kilowatt-hour?
From tfa:
The Model S unveiling is Tesla's last-ditch hope at a future in the business. Although it does not have financing for the production of the Model S, or even a site for a factory to produce it, Tesla plans to take deposits for the $58,000 vehicle from customers, a move at least one Tesla executive deemed fraudulent, prompting his departure.
I don't know if this source is trustworthy, but, if it is, then shouldn't the real headline have something to do with this?
Hey look at that S Car GO!
I used to give a guy a lift to work, but he never once gave me a penny towards it, even though I asked. So I stopped doing it.
So how is your son getting to work now? Did he ever get that camero in your front yard working? Or did he just quit his job?
More music, fewer hits
the phrase is "for all INTENTS and PURPOSES" - not "for all intensive purposes" - now that you've read the truth, the phrase makes more sense, doesn't it?
I'm only taking the time to correct you because I, like you, at one point didn't know it and I walked around talking like a moron until someone corrected me.
calling all destroyers
When it is considerably more expensive than a car that will suffice for only 99% of trips for 99% of the driving public, it probably is.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Show cars are stationary most of their lives and touch screens work just fine then. The problems only occur when you drive the thing and clearly it is not meant for that.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
I don't think I'm alone in not being able to reasonably buy two cars
If you need to go on a longer trip once or twice a year, or need to haul a fridge, rent a different vehicle for the day. The idea that you need to own a vehicle that can do absolutely any possible job you might ever be faced with is folly, and is one of the reasons why people find themselves in such dire financial straights.
You know, I find it amazing that on a site like slashdot that is supposedly full of "nerds", people here have absolutely no real imagination or even a desire to see technology change. The day a flying nuke-powered car running Linux comes out for $1000, some loser on slashdot would whine and complain that it doesn't come in the right shade of blue.
Apparently Tata is planning to bring out its http://www.tatanano.com/Nano in an all electric model as well.
While the design looks cool, thing that bugs me is that the car appears to lack a bumper and the "radiator grill" might be the first thing the comes into contact with an obstacle. Misjudge the distance when parking and crack, $2000 repair bill.
Of course the Tesla is not the only car with such questionable design, the same goes for the new Mercedes E class...
C - the footgun of programming languages
They have been released.
For fsks sake.
This problem was solved by the home-made electric car crowd 30 years ago.
You take a small generator & put it on a small trailer & tadaa, unlimited range!
It's amazing people still think the big oil companies killed the electric car and not the inherent difficulties of making a car run on electricity and still have an acceptable range.
The big car companies have crushed [almost all of] their electric cars. The projects ran at a loss, but not a year-to-year loss. Cancelling the programs made no sense unless the goal was to crush the technology itself. If you can't put fuel into it, the major automakers won't put it on the market. Veggie oil is not a major threat because it is already illegal to utilize it as a road fuel. All the gov't has to do is start cracking down on that sort of thing. In rural areas it is not unusual to have spot inspections of diesel vehicles to check their fuel for red dye, indicating that an off-road fuel was used in them, and that you haven't paid your road taxes. Homemade biodiesel is subject to even more issues; I suspect most home producers of biodiesel are in violation of Methanol storage restrictions. The federal government forced California to abandon emissions restrictions which would have been undesirable mostly to oil companies - automakers are more than capable of meeting the requirements.
If you don't think Big Oil is running this game (hint: practically everyone at or near the top of the Bush administration profited directly from investment in Big Oil) then you're not paying attention, plain and simple.
The S-Series Tesla is a very nice electric car, which it should be for the price of 55 grand! It still is not a car I could drive even if I could afford it.
What's the classic quote? Electric cars are only capable of serving the needs of 95% of the population, something like that? The vehicles could be vastly cheaper if they were produced on a wider scale. Tesla doesn't have the benefit of economies of scale to work with, so every car is expensive. Their business plan has always been to produce first the very expensive roadster, then the moderately expensive sedan, and later the inexpensive sedan (or was it coupe?) Your objection about the price is a stupid one. Your objection about the vehicle not serving your needs is valid, but the fact that it doesn't suit yours bears little weight. You are one person.
I don't think I'm alone in not being able to reasonably buy two cars - an electric one for most stuff and a gasoline one for when I need to go on a longer trip. The S-Series would not even be able to get me reliably to a city 2.5 hours from my home, like Boston - and it's not unusual for me to drive to a city like Boston.
Well, I do have two things to say about that. First, it's not clear that it's actually sustainable to have the majority of people driving themselves on long trips no matter what the vehicles are running on. Second, most people make those kind of trips astonishingly rarely. For people with those usage patterns, we have car rental. You can take public transportation to your destination, then rent a vehicle.
Amazing that even at this price, it still isn't there yet.
Amazing that you're so egocentric that you think that because it doesn't suit your needs, it's not a salable product.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
There are probably less than a half-dozen major urban markets where you can survive without a car.
Way less, at least as cities are utilized in the USA today. I lived 15 minutes' drive including parking from where I worked in SF (Bernal Heights to Potrero Hill) - 20 minutes tops, in the morning at commute time. I had to take a bus, a light rail, and another bus to get to work and still had to walk a mile or so - not a problem except in inclement weather. Or I could just drive. Part of the problem was that I ended up living and working in different boroughs, which totally defeats the point of living in the city. SF is so gentrified that it's very difficult to find anything to live in at all. I made 60k/year (nothing fancy, I admit, but on the national scale not bad) and I had to rent a fucking room to afford to live there. When my car was stolen, I left.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
...how people so easily swallow, that "it leaked". Like it did it itself. Or like some guy secretively uploaded it.
You have to ask yourself: Who profits from this?
And you will realize that this is a viral marketing scheme, engineered to create a hype.
So basically it's just a very advanced advertisement, that your adblocker could not detect.
I should program a small Firefox add-in that displays a large "who profits from this?" area next to the article. And when you would click on it, you would get to a site where you could read and edit who profited from it.
That would quite change the game. ^^
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Doesn't it seem like replacing that gaudy touch screen with analog gauges would extend the battery life exponentially? Otherwise, this is the first electric car that passes my "I'd-drive-that" test.
Heh, I think by that logic I've been under 25 for more than 35 years now...
Version 2.0 New and Improved!
Lets get the skinny.
Is this car :
1. priced to be less than $25,000 ? If not, forget the mass market. Keep diddling your rich customers (declining market) for your kicks if you like.
2. designed with the right looks/capacity ? After looking at the pics and the trunk space, this car passes that test. Someone with real world needs can actually use this car for everyday use, instead of being a fashion statement at the Golden Globe awards.
3. designed so as to go into mass production (>60,000 cars per year in the first year, and potentially rising later) ? If not, forget it. This is related very closely to 1.
4. designed so that (battery pack cost / time to replacement) is no greater than $500 / year. If not, forget it. No one in their right mind would want even a cheap electric car that costs a few months' mortgage per year to upkeep.
See, its not so difficult to get a practical car on the road, if your priorities are straight. However, the fact that these people are teaming up with Mercedes is not a hopeful sign of any desire to go past the Hollywood set. In other words, they are setting themselves up for failure (out here in the *real* world). Had they gone with a cheap Japanese or Indian carmaker, it might have been exciting.
Unless you totally eliminate your private car, you have to pay those costs anyway. Yes, you'd save some "wear and tear" by taking PT, but you'd still have to pay insurance, taxes, fees, maintenance, and the biggest expense--the car itself which many Americans have to amortize over time so there's interest involved.
PT only makes sense when you live in an area where you have the ability to give up your car entirely. I went through that twice. The first time was just after college and I was in a relatively small town and could get to everything by bicycle. I took the bus only when it rained, or if I wanted to go to the mall. The 2nd time was in Washington DC, where the hassle of parking a car was simply not justified vs. the convenience of being able to walk to Metro. I joined ZipCar, thinking I might like to take a car once in a while; but I had done almost every daytrip in the DC area so I never used it. Then I moved to California, Bay Area which I've heard has better PT than LA... could I have done it without a car? Yeah, sure; but I would only have seen the urban stuff and I would have always been the passenger when dining out.
As for the costs to society as a whole, that's for policy makers to deal with, not individuals. Yeah, you can be a bus-riding hero and it might make you feel good; but most people don't operate that way.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
I live in Sweden btw.
Last I checked Sweden wasn't part of the US. Where I live, there's one bus every hour plus a special express bus that goes once a day each way at rush hour.
The Tesla press release refers to it as a "haptic" touchscreen; that would imply some kind of (vibration?) feedback that would make it easier to tell what was what on the screen.
I'm not so sure about that in practice, but it sounds like they are aware of the problem.
>but a mini trailer that contains a power source (say a ICE/generator or a
>fuel cell or a JTEP). That would encourage new add-ons by others.
\cue urban legend
like a Jato? :)
hawk
You could rent a car or use ZipCar for that 10% of the time when the electric car's range won't get the job done.
In my city, there are 11 subway lines, two light-rail lines, two enclosed-lane bus lines and literally hundreds of bus and minibus routes...
We still get awful gridlocks :(
No sig for the moment.
The biggest problem with the Aptera is the fact that it is only going to be available in California. They say they'll look into distribution in other states later but for now its out.
The second biggest problem with the Aptera is that that three-wheeled design is treated as a motorcycle for insurance purposes in many places. Yes they say its safe but is it? I'd like to see tests done before I buy. Hopefully by the time they expand their distribution network this will be done.
Those are resolvable problems. The third problem may not be though. Where I live there is a significant percentage of the population that will associate the Aptera with.. certain political leanings. One of my relatives is a mechanic. He says he's found bullet holes in planes on more than one occasion. It seems stupid people sometimes enjoy shooting at planes.
I have concerns over driving such a distinctive vehicle when it just might have a bullseye painted on it.
Those are resolvable problems. The third problem may not be though. Where I live there is a significant percentage of the population that will associate the Aptera with.. certain political leanings. One of my relatives is a mechanic. He says he's found bullet holes in planes on more than one occasion. It seems stupid people sometimes enjoy shooting at planes.
No doubt that most of the drivers will be dems, but I suspect that with first crisis, that will change. Even the wealthy hate sending money from their pockets to others.
I am not surprised about the bullet holes. And it is not just stupid ppl. Many are just plain hateful and NEED to hate someone. Of course, that runs all over. Just the other day, Lula of Brazil blamed all the problems of the world on "white and blue-eye" ppl. What has amazed me is how few ppl called him on it.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
His sig is DESIGNED to piss off grammar nazis. Well bitten.
-DwS
If you don't think Big Oil is running this game (hint: practically everyone at or near the top of the Bush administration profited directly from investment in Big Oil) then you're not paying attention, plain and simple.
One thing I've learned from my time on the internet is that whenever anybody ends their argument with "plain and simple", the truth is rarely plain, and never simple.
Making fun of dumb people since 2009
I know it's still off topic but I do wonder, does this grammar correction do any good? I too have a little buzzer that goes off every time I read slightly incorrect word choices. Sometimes it's a typo, and I make them myself sometimes, but other times it is obviously just someone who doesn't realize their word choice or punctuation is wrong. I think that buzzer was installed by my grade school English teacher, and I don't really know if the fault is with me for stumbling over the error or with the writer for not learning the difference.
So, in the long run, do you think it improves the quality of writing in general or is correcting errors in word choices a pointless distraction?
There's a chance that it may help someone to learn.
Last I checked Sweden wasn't part of the US.
Exactly. I didn't know it was a hazzle taking the bus in the US before reading about it here, so I gave an example about how public transportation can work in other countries.
that India (like China) has fixed their rupees against the dollar to make Exports cheap. It is almost certain that the West is going to say enough is enough and stop that to all countries that fix their money. When that happens AND they are forced to clean up their power emissions, then I think that the cheap car will be anything BUT.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
This is why a car pool wins big vs. PT. You can't really "train pool"... it's already pooled. A 4-person carpool from Redwood City to SF would cost $2/person if they split the gas.
Exactly. I don't have any experience with U.S. public transport but in Australia it seems to be priced to make it roughly competitive, if very slightly cheaper, than driving (assuming you are going to own a car anyway, if you don't own a car full stop then obviously you're going to save more money). The moment you throw a passenger into the mix, public transport rapidly becomes more expensive.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
It's amazing people still think the big oil companies killed the electric car and not the inherent difficulties of making a car run on electricity and still have an acceptable range.
No, the preconception that you HAVE to be able to travel for 600+ kilometers without refuelling, and then refuel in 5 minutes, even though 90% of your trips are most likely less than 30 miles... THAT is what killed the electric car.
Sure, for people that regularly do long trips, an electric is not _yet_ the ideal solution for an only car. But there're an awful lot of households that need a commuter that's capable of doing maybe 50 miles per day, tops, and already have a fuel car for longer or 'family' trips. Even a DC drive / lead acid battery-electric car can cover that easily, let alone one of these newfangled nano-lithium ones.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
Well, since the GP was talking about NYC, there's a rail option that feeds the city from up to 90 miles out (to the north):
http://www.mta.info/mnr/html/mnrmap.htm
And on a northeast-southwest line, there's Acela:
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Route/Vertical_Route_Page&c=am2Route&cid=1080772074490&ssid=134
These might not be the most convenient options, and may be more expensive than a fuel-efficient car, but it looks to me like if you can't find public transport within a 100-mile radius of NYC, you're not trying very hard.
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
Blarg.