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Quantum Setback For Warp Drives

KentuckyFC writes "Warp drives were generally considered impossible by mainstream scientists until 1994 when the physicist Michael Alcubierre worked out how to build a faster-than-light drive using the principles of general relativity. His thinking was that while relativity prevents faster-than-light travel relative to the fabric of spacetime, it places no restriction on the speed at which regions of spacetime may move relative to each other. So a small bubble of spacetime containing a spacecraft could travel faster than the speed of light, at least in principle. But one unanswered question was what happens to the bubble when quantum mechanics is taken into account. Now, a team of physicists have worked it out, and it's bad news: the bubble becomes unstable at superluminal speeds, making warp drives impossible (probably)."

41 of 627 comments (clear)

  1. Hiesenberg says.... by MeNotU · · Score: 5, Funny

    Or is it *both* Impossible and not Impossible?

    1. Re:Hiesenberg says.... by ByOhTek · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's the only statement you could come up with?

      What a Bohr.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    2. Re:Hiesenberg says.... by Cpt_Kirks · · Score: 4, Funny

      I always just have Mr. Scott handle the warp drive. He does the impossible instantly, miracles take longer. When Spock lends a hand, hours can seem like days...

    3. Re:Hiesenberg says.... by discord5 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Or is it *both* Impossible and not Impossible?

      Only when you're not observing and you don't hear it meowing

    4. Re:Hiesenberg says.... by RMingin · · Score: 5, Funny

      Perhaps it's only Infinitely Improbable?

      --
      The preceding comment is my own, and in no way construes an opinon of the Emperor of Mankind.
    5. Re:Hiesenberg says.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      "So many of our dreams at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we summon the will, they soon become inevitable."
          - Christopher Reeve

      ...then you fall from a horse and reality hits you like a freight train.

    6. Re:Hiesenberg says.... by RichardJenkins · · Score: 5, Funny

      If I were you I'd stop poking about with things we don't understand. After all, it was curiosity that did and didn't kill the cat. ...

      I'll get my coat.

    7. Re:Hiesenberg says.... by bytethese · · Score: 5, Funny

      Warp drives that wear dresses and makeup?

    8. Re:Hiesenberg says.... by Kell+Bengal · · Score: 4, Funny
      But exactly how improbable is it?

      Frankly, I never get invited to any of those parties, either.

      --
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    9. Re:Hiesenberg says.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Fourier information, I thought it was pretty funny.

    10. Re:Hiesenberg says.... by nomorecwrd · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think he said this words were _after_ his accident.
      He was slowly recovering, something that seemed impossible at the beginning.

  2. improbability drive by phrostie · · Score: 4, Funny

    is this where the improbability drive comes in?

    yeah, someone had to say it.

    1. Re:improbability drive by Lord_Frederick · · Score: 5, Funny

      Will that allow ludicrous speed?

    2. Re:improbability drive by francium+de+neobie · · Score: 4, Funny

      Opening a small bistro in your spaceship will allow it to go beyond light speed without turning you into a sofa.

    3. Re:improbability drive by ari_j · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hi. Literature Nazi* to the rescue, here! The improbability drive's figures are always given in terms of "X to 1 against" where X is greater than 1. While you are correct about probabilities, the figure above was an improbability. Also, 0 is not "nigh impossible" - it is the definition of impossible. Easy mistake, I know.

      * - Possibly also Nazi-Nazi.

    4. Re:improbability drive by francium+de+neobie · · Score: 5, Funny

      Very large values of 1 and very small values of 0.

    5. Re:improbability drive by Kell+Bengal · · Score: 4, Funny

      Is a Nazi-Nazi someone who insists you spell "Eichmann" with two 'n's?

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    6. Re:improbability drive by Garse+Janacek · · Score: 5, Informative

      Also, 0 is not "nigh impossible" - it is the definition of impossible.

      Not necessarily. It may be that there are an uncountable number of possible outcomes, and each individual outcome has a zero probability, but large sets of them collectively still have positive probability. At least, models exist where this makes sense...

      --

      I am the man with no sig!

  3. Longer lifetimes is the answer by tjstork · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The SCI-FI buff in me holds out hope that physics will uncover a trick to FTL, but...

    It doesn't really matter if we cannot travel faster than the speed of light so long as we can live long enough to get there.

    Who cares if it takes 50 years to fly to Alpha Centauri if we can engineer ourselves to live for a thousand!

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Longer lifetimes is the answer by SnapShot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Depends on whether we can engineer ourselves to live 50 years in a tiny spacecraft with a bunch of strangers.

      --
      Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
    2. Re:Longer lifetimes is the answer by Zordak · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, it's time dilation and space contraction. If you're traveling at 0.9c relative to earth, your gamma is something like .44. So if you travel one light year, an observer on earth will see you go one light year in about 1.1 years. But from your perspective, you will have traveled only about .44 light years, and it would take something like .48 years. If you travel fast enough, you can reach even distant stars in very short times from your perspective. But you won't get a nice, tidy Galactic Federation, because people on earth will be getting very old very fast. That's the real problem with relativity. It's not that you can't get somewhere fast. Tell me where you want to go and how fast you want to get there, and we can calculate how fast you need to go (relative to the earth) to make it in that time, and it will be less than c.

      In other words, we could (in theory) colonize all of the habitable planets in the galaxy in a fairly short time. But the colonies would all basically be cut off from each other. Even sending a radio message to another colony would take prohibitively long. And forget about "rescue" or "supply" ships.

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    3. Re:Longer lifetimes is the answer by BigBlueOx · · Score: 4, Funny

      it needs to be of a sufficient size that you don't go bugshit loco crazy

      Inadvertently, a Slashdot poster stumbles upon the reason that aliens, intersteller travelers who travel in very small ships, abduct people on Earth and stick things up their butts.

      And then ...

  4. So we can't go there, big whoop... by bhunachchicken · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just do what the Planet Express Ship does and use a Dark Matter drive to move the Universe around us instead... :)

  5. Proof! by cjstaples · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the article... "strongly implies that such a bubble would be unstable." Sounds like proof to me! Right. Just like it was proved impossible for planes to fly. It might indeed - eventually - prove to be impossible, or impossible to do meaningfully / reliably, but it's pretty unlikely we're in a position to make that call at this time. That's why we do research.

    --
    =cjs
    1. Re:Proof! by geckipede · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This isn't anything new, it's an old idea being analysed more rigorously with quantum mechanics.

      The problem is that in order to have a region of spacetime moving in relation to the outside universe, space has to expand behind it and contract in front, which demands negative and positive gravity in those regions. You need a large negative mass held in place in front of you, and a large positive mass behind. (We'll leave aside the problem that nobody has demonstrated the existence of negative mass, I personally don't believe it could exist precisely because it would enable FTL, but that's seperate to this point.) What you have to achieve is to have the centre of gravitation of the two masses at the centre of the edges of distortion. It means inevitably that half of the negative mass you are using has to stick out of the bubble ahead of you into normal unwarped space, and so that in order to keep generating the field ahead of you, it has to travel faster than light in its local frame. That is strictly not allowed.

  6. Causality by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Faster-than-light travel always causes causality paradoxes, so a priori, FTL drives are impossible unless special relativity is wrong. (That's is a bit like saying that perpetual motion machines are impossible unless thermodynamics is wrong.) The proposed mechanism behind the FTL drive doesn't matter -- it'll still cause a time paradox.

    Just like we know any proposed perpetual motion machine must have a flaw, any proposed FTL drive must also have a flaw. They belong to the same class of impossible device, and deserve the same degree of consideration.

    1. Re:Causality by delt0r · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There have been some papers that even survived peer review on possible resolutions to this. But this is by far the biggest stake in FTL heart. Ironically this is not the biggest problem with the Alcubierre drive. Negative mass energy being one of them.

      IIRC Einstein said they GR and SR may be proven wrong, but that the laws of entropy will never be broken (ie entropy is always getting bigger). I would aggree with this. ie FTL is less sci fi than "vacuum energy" or anti inertia drives.

      But if I were a betting man, I would bet on light speed as the ultimate speed limit of the universe.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    2. Re:Causality by SafeMode · · Score: 5, Informative

      entropy dictates that that everything loses to heat. This heat is at such a low energy level eventually that it can't cause any increase in energy to anything at all around it. This is how a system winds down, eventually all the energy in the atom will get sapped off this way and then it will start breaking down. Eventually devolving into the quantum soup that makes up the subatomic particles. Eventually, those too will lose energy to the space around them until everything is the same indistinguishable quantum soup.

      This is the cold death scenario, and the only thing that can stop it is space itself increasing the density of energy instead of forever decreasing it. It's the expansion of space that continually provides for this loss of energy.

      so no, atoms aren't perpetual motion machines. Though, for practical reasons, unless you need the machine to be functioning billions of years from now, you can call it perpetual.

  7. Paper was submitted 1. April by 49152 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please note the submission date:
    Semiclassical instability of dynamical warp drives

  8. They won't be strangers for long. by wiredog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Heck, after 8 weeks of army basic training none of the 50 or so people in my company were strangers.

    1. Re:They won't be strangers for long. by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh my.

      This is why we need women in the army to stop that nonsense.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:They won't be strangers for long. by inerlogic · · Score: 4, Funny

      nah, 8 weeks of basic training doesn't generate THOSE kinds of issues....

      the real problems, and a closer analogy, (pun? what pun?) would be the Navy....

      500 men leave on the ship, 6 months later 250 couples return

  9. Cancel the Star Trek movie by Onyma · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's it, cancel the Star Trek Movie. Now that I know it's all fake it just ruined it for me.

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  10. Mod parent up by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Right. At about one G acceleration you can reach any point in the universe in a few years of ship time.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:Mod parent up by maxume · · Score: 5, Funny

      With magic, you can ride a unicorn.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Mod parent up by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Funny

      Perhaps this is why, despite our best efforts, no other civilization has contacted us. It's simply too hard to bridge the huuuuge gap between the stars.

      More likely, they've just chosen not to. Like why we tend to not talk to people from Alabama.

    3. Re:Mod parent up by mgv · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah but you need a massive amount of fuel to accelerate to C and then slow down again. About 40,000 times the size of the shuttle's boosters.

      Perhaps this is why, despite our best efforts, no other civilization has contacted us. It's simply too hard to bridge the huuuuge gap between the stars.

      Yes, if I was going to build a universe with all sorts of playthings in it, I'd probably separate the experiments with enough spacetime that when the odd experiment blows up it doesn't really affect any others around it.

      Not that I think that the universe was actually designed, but if it was, that would be how I would do it.

      Michael

      --
      There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
  11. Re:Warp Drives?? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's a shame they're both 3.5"

    Zing!

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  12. Re:We already have faster-than-light communication by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sorry, but we already have faster-than-light communication trough quantum entanglement. The change in state happens instantly, without any delay, no matter what the distance is.

    That doesn't work. You can't transmit information faster than light; contrary to popular conception, quantum entanglement does not involve classical information transfer.

    If you have one of a pair of dice, and the other is a thousand light-years away, one way to think of entanglement is to imagine that whatever number you roll is the number that shows up on the other die the next time it is rolled. Even if the two dice are linked, you can't control which number shows up, so you can't use the dice to communicate information.

  13. Re:WARP 10 by MaxwellEdison · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's just silly...No one would mate with Kate Mullgrue...

    Unless...
    Go East
    You have been molested by a Mullgrue

    --
    -=Bang Bang=-
  14. Re:We already have faster-than-light communication by holmstar · · Score: 4, Informative

    That doesn't work either because Joe doesn't know if you have rolled the dice or not.

    Entangled particles are like dice that are already rolling, and they stop rolling the moment that either particle is observed.

    So you and Joe each have a dice that, say, always roll the same number as each other. You look at your dice to cause it to stop rolling, and see that it rolled a 6. Joe can look at his dice too, and will also see a 6, but he doesn't know if he was the one that caused the dice to stop, or whether it was you who stopped it.

    You both see a 6, but no actual information was transferred.