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Multiple Fiber Cuts In San Francisco Area

georgewilliamherbert writes "Multiple news reports, mailing list posts, blogs, and tweets are pointing out two overnight acts of sabotage in the San Francisco Bay area, with long distance fiber network cables being cut in two locations in the early morning hours. The first cut, around 1:30 AM, affecting landline and cell phone service and 911 calls in the communities of Morgan Hill, Gilroy, and parts of Santa Cruz counties, was on an AT&T fiber alongside Monterey Highway near Blossom Hill Road, in San Jose. A second cut, around 3:30 AM, in San Carlos, affected Sprint fiber and has significantly disrupted services at the 200 Paul datacenter in southern San Francisco. Rumor says that this may be related to a AT&T communications workers contract having just expired — but no evidence has been published yet in the media, and this could be an intentional act of sabotage by someone unrelated to the company's workers."

368 comments

  1. This just in by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Funny

    The NSA has volunteered to help fix the cables.

    1. Re:This just in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The NSA has volunteered to help fix the cables.

      "You break it, you fix it."

    2. Re:This just in by Whillowhim · · Score: 1

      I thought it was "you break it, you buy it". Though now that I think about it, that also sound surprisingly likely.

    3. Re:This just in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nope, it had to have been those darned vandals. You know, the ones who knew precisely which manhole to go down, had the tool to open it, knew which wires to cut and had the heavy-duty equipment to cut the large cables.

    4. Re:This just in by GNUbuntu · · Score: 5, Funny

      Nope, it had to have been those darned vandals.

      At least it wasn't those smelly visogoths who did it.

    5. Re:This just in by moniker127 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or, just some morons with a bit of thermite and a crowbar.

    6. Re:This just in by Vu1turEMaN · · Score: 1

      I'm more worried about the tubes. I heard the internet was affected, but nobody seems to care about the tubes anymore.

    7. Re:This just in by Ihmhi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, a lot of "You break it, you buy it" policies are a scam. Customer accidents are often covered under business insurance. Even if you do lose an item in your store, why should you make a profit off of an accident?

    8. Re:This just in by GNUbuntu · · Score: 1

      Don't worry they've brought in some big trucks to dump things on in case there is any damage to the tubes.

    9. Re:This just in by MadnessASAP · · Score: 1

      You underestimate the resourcefulness and intelligence of vandals.

      --
      I may agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to face the consequences of saying it.
    10. Re:This just in by frosty_tsm · · Score: 1

      Or the huns.

      Not only would there have the cable been cut, but the first repairmen on the scene would have been greeted by horse crap all over the place.

    11. Re:This just in by tautog · · Score: 1

      You've never been to Chicago, have you?

    12. Re:This just in by digitalunity · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe they were trying to steal copper and didn't realize it was fiber optic cable. Copper theft is at record highs right now.

      Of course, thats about as likely as a ship dropping an anchor on an Mediterranean communications cable twice in two months....

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    13. Re:This just in by MadnessASAP · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Multiple cuts at the same time definitely suggests some form of planning and coordination in this case. If it was just one I would be tempted to say that it was just some explorers/vandals poking around who poked a bit too hard, in which case they would be lucky that it's only fiber optic and not something that would fuse their bod to their surroundings.
      Incidentally that's why I always bring a live wire detector when I go exploring buildings, even if its a factory that's been abandoned for 30 years.

      --
      I may agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to face the consequences of saying it.
    14. Re:This just in by conlaw · · Score: 1

      But at least no one is trying to attribute it to anchors dragging along the sea bottom.

    15. Re:This just in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      to teach idiots like yourself to be more careful while shopping.

    16. Re:This just in by SunnyDaze · · Score: 1

      Out of curiousity, have you found anything really interesting in old buildings?

    17. Re:This just in by KlomDark · · Score: 1

      A bottle of alien blood in the abandoned Hangar 18. A dark murky liquid, it will turn your hands a metallic bronze color. When you go to wash it off, it dies your hands a shockingly bright hot pink color.

    18. Re:This just in by ishobo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Copper theft is at record highs right now.

      A year ago, yes, not anymore. The prices for scrap has fallen through the floor, thanks to the global recession.

      --
      Slashdot - The great and glorious cluster fuck of Internet wisdom.
    19. Re:This just in by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Copper theft is NOT at record highs. The price of copper has plummeted. I have a bunch of copper scrap that I didn't sell when I should have. Now I am going to wait for the 'long haul' though and sell it years from now.

    20. Re:This just in by SupremoMan · · Score: 5, Funny

      thanks to the global recession.

      Oh thank you recession! First you lowered our oil and gas prices. Now you tackle copper theft! Is there anything you can't fix?

    21. Re:This just in by Miseph · · Score: 1

      Is it really an accident if idiot kids are throwing merchandise around and being stupid? My store doesn't have a break it/buy it policy, but sometimes I wish we did just so we could get the 14 year olds to stop trying to break the expensive electronics.

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    22. Re:This just in by 1310nm · · Score: 1

      Exactly, they would have had to known which cables were both the work and protect loops. Definitely suggests insider or former employee. It would have been extremely serendipitous for a random saboteur to have caused such an outage.

    23. Re:This just in by fastasleep · · Score: 1

      apparently they didn't read the sign then.

    24. Re:This just in by MaQleod · · Score: 1

      the price of copper dropped dramatically a few months ago, copper theft has gone done since then.

    25. Re:This just in by corsec67 · · Score: 1

      Fix our employment problem?

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    26. Re:This just in by ionix5891 · · Score: 1

      our government?

    27. Re:This just in by Frnknstn · · Score: 1

      You think the Huns were bad? In my day we had to deal with the Hittites. Once that horse crap has been ground into the carpet by their chariot wheels, there is no way to get it out.

      --
      If it's in you sig, it's in your post.
    28. Re:This just in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "Economic Crisis" has resulted in government changes at the local level:

      http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=285177&src=3

    29. Re:This just in by SchmellsAngel · · Score: 1

      True story: in my neighborhood, the tubes were rooted. 35 feet of root. At last report, the intrusion was traced to stately elms.

      --
      We must repeat.
    30. Re:This just in by sillybilly · · Score: 1

      Expect gas prices to skyrocket if I move to the country.

  2. Meh by edlinfan · · Score: 3, Funny

    Someone should have told that guy not to cut and run!

    *ducks*

    1. Re:Meh by Slashdot+Suxxors · · Score: 1

      It's hard to run away in a boat. Oh wait, these were cut on land for a change.

  3. Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Too mcuh open, ungaurded land. All it takes is a cut sopmewhere along hundreds of miles of cable to wreak havoc.

    --
    If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    1. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Deadstick · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm happy just to see someone on the Internet spell "wreak havoc" correctly...

      rj

    2. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by GNUbuntu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All it takes is a cut sopmewhere along hundreds of miles of cable

      That would be more probably like millions if not billions of miles of cable that criss-cross the country. And exactly how are you going to remedy that? The fact of the matter is there is neither enough people or resources to protect every inch of those cables.

    3. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm happy just to see someone on the Internet spell "rj" correctly...

    4. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by iminplaya · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Too mcuh open, ungaurded land.

      Oh please! No more fences..We gotta tear down the ones we have. Go microwave if you have to. And lay more cable in a neural fashion to give true redundancy.

      What's all these little red dotted lines beneath your quote there? :-)

      --
      What?
    5. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Em+Emalb · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      EUREKA!

      We allow immigrants into our country in return for watching a span of cable, say 1.5 miles long as their job for 4 years. We could call it Cable Conscription.

      Now they're not only in the country legally, but they're providing a service in return for entering the country. It's win-win! Someone call Obama, he needs to be briefed on this.

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    6. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Red+Flayer · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Too mcuh open, ungaurded land. All it takes is a cut sopmewhere along hundreds of miles of cable to wreak havoc....

      I'm happy just to see someone on the Internet spell "wreak havoc" correctly...

      I'm glad the bar is low then... I was worried you missed the other spelling atrocities in his post.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    7. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Itninja · · Score: 5, Funny

      At least he spelled something right in that sentence.

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    8. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Chabo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's no reason not to have a massive multi-path infrastructure within cities.

      Personally, I'd love to see cities implement GPONs (Gigabit ethernet Passive Optical Networks) within the cities, even if they kept the same connection for external traffic. Imagine downloading the Ubuntu 9.10 ISO on BitTorrent, finding a seeder in your city, and having the download speed limited by your hard drive write speed!

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    9. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by JCSoRocks · · Score: 4, Funny

      Obviously the answer is the use of fences, cameras, GPS systems installed in everyone, and the outlawing of the "terrorist fist bump." Problem solved.

      --
      You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
    10. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by VeNoM0619 · · Score: 1

      We could always build a fence around the cables that prevent people from getting into the cables. I heard that's been working very well at the south border.

      --
      Disclaimer: I am not god.
      We may not be created equal
      But we can be treated equal.
    11. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woosh.

    12. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by rmadmin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Us fiber owners have these neat tools that will tell you exactly where a fiber is damaged. To the foot.

    13. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Red+Flayer · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Woosh yerself. There's a reason I didn't close that HTML tag.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    14. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by silentsteel · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you are going to allude to the tool, you could at least let people know that it is an optical time domain reflectometer.

      --
      I cut it three times, and it's still too short.
    15. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by eln · · Score: 1

      That's it! The solution to our economic crisis! We'll just hire massive amounts of new soldiers and post one every 50 yards along the route of every buried cable in the country. We might have to import some people from other countries too, but we could be the first country ever to have 0% unemployment!

    16. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Kleen13 · · Score: 1

      Must have been a Duke Nukem player.

      --
      That sinking feeling deep in your gut when you KNOW you screwed up bad summed up with: {head desk} {head desk}
    17. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't get it... How would that help Verizon sell you additional services?

    18. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah well guess what those cables are not above ground either. so more details about how it was cut might be better off. We talking Sonet/OC-48+ lines they are typically well buried for protection.

    19. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by GNUbuntu · · Score: 1

      Considering they've been laying down hundreds of thousands of GPON lines for over a year, I'm guessing they've found a way.

    20. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Chabo · · Score: 1

      Well, let's say that Verizon has, in a given city, 8 Gbps of download bandwidth, and they currently have 6 Mbps connections for all of their customers. What they might currently do for their Video On Demand service is take all of the hi-def video that comes into their city central office, down-convert it to a lower bitrate, then push it to the customer. If they suddenly have more bandwidth between the central office and each home, then there's no need for down-conversion; they can feed the source video directly to the set-top box, and you get full-quality video.

      There's plenty that they could do with more intra-city bandwidth, but I know they won't bother until they can provide more inter-city bandwidth as well. :/

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    21. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Chabo · · Score: 1

      Is Verizon really doing GPONs now? Last I heard, it was slower PONs, not even ethernet-based, in the area of 20-50Mbps.

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    22. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Ihmhi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What if the cable was cut a bunch of times?

      "Okay, so... 20 meters out from this station aaaaand... that cable is replaced. That should fix it. What? Another cut 10 meters further?"

      If someone chopped the hell outta a cable, the only thing you'd be able to tell is the nearest cut to the station, yes?

    23. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by GNUbuntu · · Score: 1

      Is Verizon really doing GPONs now?

      Yeah, they announced they were going to doing it back in mid 2007 and started laying lines early 2008.

      Last I heard, it was slower PONs, not even ethernet-based, in the area of 20-50Mbps.

      Huh? GPON is gigabit.

    24. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Chyeld · · Score: 2, Funny

      That sounds like something you'd reverse the polarity on to get a couple more tenths of a Warp speed when attempting to out run the Vrzn or Sprnt probes.

    25. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Deadstick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm entirely willing to attribute the words you bolded to typing, not spelling.

      rj

    26. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by spatley · · Score: 1

      Can we make a special exemption for legal citizens that are contestants on Deal or no Deal?

    27. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 1

      That sounds like something you'd reverse the polarity on to get a couple more tenths of a Warp speed when attempting to out run the Vrzn or Sprnt probes.

      Believe it or not, the time domain reflectometer is real technology, and not particularly new either.

    28. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Chabo · · Score: 1

      What I meant was that last I'd heard, Verizon was using older, slower-than-Gigabit PONs for their fiber-to-the-home services.

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    29. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by jcr · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't really call this havoc. More like inconvenience for a lot of people for about a day.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    30. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by frosty_tsm · · Score: 5, Funny

      At least he spelled something right in that sentence.

      Just not somewhere.

    31. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by petermgreen · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would assume so, presumablly you would have to work along the cable fixing each cut and then taking a new measurement.

      Quite a good way to inflict a lot of financial damage on a telco really. Afaict fixing fibers is FAR more expensive than cutting them.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    32. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by GunFodder · · Score: 1

      Many folks cannot call 911. Local civil services are mobilizing to ensure that folks can get critical services if needed. Banks are closed, businesses are unable to process credit card transactions. And I can't work from home today. I would call this havoc.

    33. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 1

      Well, let's drill down through it.

      Optical: uses light
      Time domain: travel time
      Reflect: uses reflections
      Meter: measures something

      So we have a thing that sends out a pulse of light and measures how long it takes to return after reflecting off the other end of the fiber.

      Working with these things in undergrad was neat. You'd have to have a good bit of a spool of fiber sitting there in order to get useful signal times for the sort of simple (undergrad) stuff we'd do with it. It feels a little silly, since you could have your "break" and your entry point a foot apart, and then you have to make the light bounce down all those meters of fiber.

    34. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by digitalunity · · Score: 1

      Sounds expensive. Let's pay the mexicans to do it.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    35. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by fredklein · · Score: 1

      heh. I read a book where a terrorist group buys a russian submarine (complete with non-nuke cruise missiles) and (among other things) sets up two bombs on an under-water oil pipeline. The first, more obvious hole gets fixed, and they start pumping oil again, only for it to spill all out the second hole.

    36. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Sadly, it was supposed to be cry havoc.

    37. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by maxume · · Score: 2

      Still, effort fail. If I think 5 people are going to read something that I am writing, I take the time to read it at least once myself.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    38. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by maxume · · Score: 1

      I imagine that laying a new contiguous stretch would often be cheaper than splicing splicing splicing (of course, you could space your breaks to make sure it wasn't), and if I didn't start looking for evidence of tampering after the 2nd break, I would after the 3rd.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    39. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Tumbleweed · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't get it... How would that help Verizon sell you additional services?

      You spelled 'servitude' incorrectly...

    40. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by jcr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would call this havoc.

      Your scale is a bit out of whack. Havoc is an event like hurricane Katrina, not an event like 911 being out of commission for a day.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    41. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Mr.+PJR · · Score: 1

      Maybe you could measure it from both ends. If you're getting different results then it's been cut more than once, and you can just replace the whole in-between section.

      --

      --
      It is the last resort of the fading intellectual: to accuse your public of stupidity.--Sullivan
    42. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a good article this month in Circuit Cellar on how TDR works and how to build your own (for copper cable at least.)

      http://www.circuitcellar.com/magazine/

    43. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fixing fibers is FAR more expensive than cutting them.

      Well, duh. Only one of those jobs is being done union.

    44. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...To the foot.

      Darnit! How's the rest of the world supposed to understand your infernal Imperial units?! Metric please!

    45. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by cizoozic · · Score: 1

      He probably just hadn't made up as cool of a term for it as you did.

    46. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please tell me more about your fancy time domain roflcopter.

      Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

    47. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      I guessd thatr wqas a caser ofg netbvook frat fgingewr typ[ingh./

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    48. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      test it from both ends, see if both distances add up to the known length of the cable

    49. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by ahoehn · · Score: 1

      I would call this havoc.

      Your scale is a bit out of whack. Havoc is an event like hurricane Katrina, not an event like 911 being out of commission for a day.

      Plus, we all know it's not truly havoc until someone lets loose the dogs of war.

      --
      Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
    50. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by slackbheep · · Score: 1

      pt yu[omh pmr d[svr yp yjr ;rgy/

    51. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the problem with capitalism.

    52. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm more worried about "ungaurded".

    53. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Camann · · Score: 1

      oiaauvkt

      --
      I can't believe you don't know what a Hasemalphaginnojinglanaporphomism is.
    54. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Sfing_ter · · Score: 1

      Don't tease us - we live in the us where most peoples bandwidth is still below 1500kb/s. It is not fair and not funny, give it to me NOW!!!

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
    55. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cause you're a dumbass? Yeah we already knew that.

    56. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Verizon makes you perform work for them in exchange for service? All I have to do is pay my bill once a month, or cancel the service if I don't want to pay. You really got yourself a bad deal there.

      Oh, never mind, I missed the point. Being forced to pay for service is servitude. You deserve your Internet for free, right?

    57. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are these tools realtime? If so, you could have sent five-oh to the crime in progress, assuming it takes time to cut through

    58. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable by iphayd · · Score: 1

      I know it's insensitive, but I have this running through my head as I read this...

      Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
      Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
      Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
      Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

  4. In San Francisco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They call them "tweens"

  5. Scrappers by SnarfQuest · · Score: 5, Funny

    Could be someone trying to steal the fiber cables so they could sell the copper.

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    1. Re:Scrappers by EkriirkE · · Score: 4, Funny

      You mean gold. It conducts light better.

      --
      from 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
      to 45 2F 6E 40 3C DF 10 71 4E 41 DF AA 25 7D 31 3F
    2. Re:Scrappers by SirBitBucket · · Score: 2, Funny

      Perhaps you want to think about that question... When they say fiber they don't mean lots of little copper fibers... Them fibers is glass!

    3. Re:Scrappers by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not true. I cut a fiber and looked directly at it and it shined very much. It must have been good copper because I'm now blind in that eye :(

    4. Re:Scrappers by Lord+Ender · · Score: 5, Funny

      I hear the price on transparent copper is through the roof these days.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    5. Re:Scrappers by RoFLKOPTr · · Score: 1

      fibers dont have any real copper. Not the same thing as the other type of lines.

      I want to say "Woosh" in reply to your post... but something tells me OP was being serious.

    6. Re:Scrappers by GNUbuntu · · Score: 1

      Well just to back him up in case the OP was being serious, some fiber optic cabling does use copper tubing as a water shield.

    7. Re:Scrappers by ameyer17 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While fiberoptic cables aren't copper, it's still possible.
      People who steal copper don't seem to be intelligent enough to make that distinction.

    8. Re:Scrappers by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      I always wanted to find out something. The kinds of posts like yours right now, are they really out of general misunderstanding of the joke in the GP or is it due to a systematic lack of sense of humor? (I used Canadian version of the word, though the meaning is universal.)

      Really, did you not understand the joke in the GP, or did you understand it but believed that the GP was serious? It's not an attack, I just really would like to understand. Thank you.

    9. Re:Scrappers by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Hello? Computer?"

    10. Re:Scrappers by SyntaxFeline · · Score: 0

      "Maybe you should just use the keyboard?"

    11. Re:Scrappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no indication in the GP that a joke was intended - for all intents and purposes, it looks like the poster is simply uninformed. Tone of voice is impossible to convey through text if no additional indication is given, such as a wink or a parenthetical explanation like (joking).

      Other than the moderation of funny (and we all know that moderators are not always accurate), is there any indication that the post was meant as a joke? I see none. I find it reasonable to assume that the poster needs correction. (In fact, i read it, thought it was a bit odd, then was glad someone had pointed out the poster's problem.) People read /. to be informed as well as amused. I would argue first and foremost informed on interesting issues. Without any indication of humor in a post, I am not at all surprised to see a response that assumes it was not a joke.

    12. Re:Scrappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is apparently what happens in S. Africa. They have to constantly lay down cables because they're dug up, melted and sold for their copper value.

    13. Re:Scrappers by EkriirkE · · Score: 1

      The what?

      --
      from 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
      to 45 2F 6E 40 3C DF 10 71 4E 41 DF AA 25 7D 31 3F
    14. Re:Scrappers by SirBitBucket · · Score: 1

      I did not get any type of joke. Seemed like a legitimate post to assert that someone would want to steal copper wiring, as this happens all the time given the recent price of copper (especially last year). Perhaps you are implying that the original poster knew that the fiber was made of glass when he/she suggested the theft of copper? If so I did not see any way to tell this. Please explain the joke as you see it. I tend to get most jokes, and didn't find much humorous is the original post.

    15. Re:Scrappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      fibers dont have any real copper. Not the same thing as the other type of lines.

      That's true, but what's important is what someone thinks is inside the cable before opening it. I have heard of an network outage caused by (disappointed) copper thieves cutting through a fiber optic line.

    16. Re:Scrappers by plover · · Score: 1

      The sad part is: there are some fibers that DO have copper. Some of the gullible audiophiles out there actually purchase "shielded optical fiber", as if EM interference was somehow going to violate the laws of physics and change the shape of their photons enough to "color" their sound.

      Fortunately, buried cable owners aren't nearly that stupid, and their fibers are protected with ordinary non-metallic sheathing. Any wrappers or sheathing around them are put there for the physical protection of the fibers, not for "interference".

      --
      John
    17. Re:Scrappers by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 5, Funny

      You mean gold. It conducts light better.

      You must work for Monster Cable.

      I mean that in the temporal neutral sense: either you do or you should.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    18. Re:Scrappers by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Could be someone trying to steal the fiber cables so they could sell the copper.

      No no no! They're trying to steal the glass for recycling!

    19. Re:Scrappers by yerktoader · · Score: 1

      "Keyboard. How Quaint..."

    20. Re:Scrappers by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      The problem is that you are now so jaded (possibly rightfully so?) that you assume most /. posters are morons who would say something so blatantly wrong, instead of clever techies making a great deadpan joke.

      As jaded as I am, for some reason I still assumed he was joking. Who knows, maybe it was the fact that he didn't misspell basic words and actually used punctuation at the end of the sentence. Or maybe it's because I could see myself making the same joke ;)

    21. Re:Scrappers by dfm3 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Would your average Joe Copper Thief be able to tell whether the cable is copper or fiber optic before cutting into it? I imagine that from the outside both look like a thick cable wrapped in a nondescript plastic insulator.

    22. Re:Scrappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is actually a Copper Beryllium alloy which is resistant to corrosion especially when exposed to saltwater.

    23. Re:Scrappers by m.ducharme · · Score: 1

      I also assumed he was joking, or at least that he knew fiber-optic cable would contain no copper, but that there are always idiots who don't know that.

      --
      Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
    24. Re:Scrappers by mikael · · Score: 1

      Some fibre-optic cables have their own power supplied by copper wires to provide electricity to the optic repeater units. I believe they are still electrically powered.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    25. Re:Scrappers by symbolset · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ordinarily Joe the Copper Thief would make two cuts in his desired scrap material and take the length in between. If he climbs down a hole and cuts one, finding nothing of value to take and abandoning his plan, he's not going to go over a few blocks and repeat that process an hour later. It's too easy to wander around looking for a car with an iPod Touch or similarly negotiable object in plain view.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    26. Re:Scrappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who steal copper don't seem to be intelligent enough to make that distinction.

      Your not talking about the "Solutions Providers" that work for ATT are you?

    27. Re:Scrappers by MaQleod · · Score: 1

      OSP fibers are coated in a thick hard plastic, it is quite different from any type of copper signal cable. The closest resemblance would be the insulated coax used for cell towers, which don't contain much copper and would not be run in the same place. I'm not sure that any random person would know that, I just do because I install all types of cable for a living. I would guess that the person who cut these fibers knew exactly what they were doing as they would have been underground, accessible only through a manhole. OSP cables only surface near COs and their MPOEs, other than that you need to go underground or dig to get to one. In other words, you need to know where they are. Considering that the OSP workers with AT&T are the ones most angry and pushing the strike because their double-time pay is being affected, one of them is most likely responsible for this act of sabotage.

    28. Re:Scrappers by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      That's not a whoosh, it's just a joke-killer. Not that I've ever understood the humor in quoting movies - it seems more like a feel-good "yay, we share the same taste in entertainment" type of laughter. It sure as hell isn't funny in the general sense.

    29. Re:Scrappers by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Not that I've ever understood the humor in quoting movies - it seems more like a feel-good "yay, we share the same taste in entertainment" type of laughter. It sure as hell isn't funny in the general sense.

      I can see where reference humor can fall flat if it's just for reference sake or a common free-association, but at times it is intended in a sense of life imitating art and applying the idea of learning from history to avoid its repetition also to learning from popular culture (often a specific what-could-possibly-go-wrong reference).

      That's not the case here.

      Me, I would not have gone for the Star Trek reference; it was already implied. I would have taken it in a slightly less obvious direction and tried to come up with a reference to invisible police, but I can only come up with one source right now and I'm not familiar enough with Ghost in the Machine: Standalone Complex to come up with a convincing witticism. Plus you'd need to tie in the "through the roof" somehow to fit the humor of threes.

      But overall, I'm not sure "transparent copper" called for a witty response anyway. Appreciation of the humor was already registered with the modding up as Funny. That he was anonymously appreciated by others through modding gives the reader a sense of vicarious appreciation for also getting the joke. I'd consider friending Lord Ender instead.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  6. Revenge of the SysAdmin? by deanston · · Score: 3, Funny

    Infrastructure. Infrastructure. Infrastructure.

  7. Important Notice to WHOMEVER is Doing This! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please let me join your Fight Club. Look I know you have your rules and you can't talk about it *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* but please just take me with you. I want to be a part of Project Mayhem 2009!

    1. Re:Important Notice to WHOMEVER is Doing This! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait by the tall oak near Sycamore and Spruce. We'll be in touch.

  8. Yeah, I was just at West Marine in NJ.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was just at West Marine in NJ and they told me this was why their computer systems were down.

  9. All by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    your base are belong to us.

  10. If this was indeed sabotage.... by Em+Emalb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    then I hope whoever did it gets nailed to the wall.

    Just because you're unhappy about something doesn't give you the right to go fuck with a bunch of other people.

    There's a term for that, it's called being a dickhead.

    In general, I hate people.

    --
    Sent from your iPad.
    1. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by Thaelon · · Score: 4, Funny

      I find your ideas interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

      --

      Question everything

    2. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While in this particular case what happened is clearly illegal, sadly there is no law against being a dickhead.

    3. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by Kleen13 · · Score: 1

      Ya, what gets me here is that the Dickweed that did this could have killed someone by disrupting 911. Is it me, or does it seem like the sociopaths are becoming more and more apparent these days?

      --
      That sinking feeling deep in your gut when you KNOW you screwed up bad summed up with: {head desk} {head desk}
    4. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I wonder if the actual cause will be hushed up?

      This kind of thing has been happening a bit, but nothing widely reported.

      The local paper in Aberdeen (Scotland) reported a couple of weeks ago that a major outage of Shell's global hosting platform (GI-H) had occurred with more than 1000 servers down.

      I overheard some of their (internal) security guys at a pub - so much for security policy, laugh - saying that anger over wide-scale contract terminations related to the big outsourcing deals to T-Systems was the probable cause.

      Nothing else in the media.

      I did get a confirmation that something big/strange had happened to the Windows hosting environment for a while there, from diverse friends within Shell.

      I've been waiting for some kind of journalist or something to cite it. But ... nothing.

      So, don't be surprised if the news ends up fading. It's too embarrassing for lawsuits or anything else if that can be avoided.

    5. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "In general, I hate people."

      I imagine the feeling is mutual.

    6. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by gsgriffin · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the last election too. I hope you didn't end up voting in such a way that causes you to be the kind of person you generally hate.

      --
      jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
    7. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      In general, I hate people.

      I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. That way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody. If anybody wanted to tell me something they'd have to write it on a piece of paper and shove it over to me. They'd get bored as hell doing that after a while, and then I'd be through with having conversations for the rest of my life.

      Then someone had to go invent the Internet. Now everyone is doing it, and they never get bored with it!

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    8. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because you're unhappy about something doesn't give you the right to go fuck with a bunch of other people.

      There's a term for that

      War?

    9. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate you too..times infinity plus.. mainly because I had to sign up just to comment on your comment... but I agree with your comment totally.

    10. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      But if doing it makes you happy, then do you have the right to pursue that happiness?

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    11. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great! We have meetings every Sunday from 11 AM to 12 and plenty of other fellowship opportunities! We look forward to having you become a member of our newsletter and organization.

    12. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by raddan · · Score: 1

      "People. What a bunch of bastards." -- Roy

    13. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by MartinSchou · · Score: 2, Funny

      Question everything

      Why?

    14. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by RocketRabbit · · Score: 1

      911 is not to be relied upon in a real emergency. People have ham radios for real emergencies. Phones are for children and grannies.

    15. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by JimMcc · · Score: 1

      Ummm, no. Licensed amateur operators have "ham" radios. They also happen to be people. The opposite is not necessarily true. In this day and age telephones are ubiquitous, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. However, when all else fails, there are the ham operators. Our ARES group has provided emergency comms when the local phone system and 911 service has failed. We are an adjunct to the telephone system, not a replacement for it. And you'd better hope it stays that way or the spectrum will be so jammed with chit-chat that it will make CB channel 19 in the late 70's sound like an empty echo.

      Jim - a General Class licensed ham

    16. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by chris.evans · · Score: 1

      It is a alkeda operative.

    17. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a new party being born: The People Who Hate People Party.
      - People who hate people, come together!
      - "No!"

      We're kind of having trouble getting off the boards.

      - Come to our meeting!
      - "Are you gonna be there?"
      - Yeah.
      - "Then I ain't fucking coming."
      - But you're our strongest member!
      - "Fuck you!"
      - That's what I'm talking about, you asshole!
      - "Fuck off!"
      - Damn, we almost had a meeting going. It's so hard to get my people together.

    18. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by lxs · · Score: 1

      Why do you hate them?
      Imagine the amount of spam that can't be delivered now. They did everyone a favor.

    19. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In general, I hate people.

      Upset you couldn't play WOW last night too, huh?

    20. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by kcdoodle · · Score: 1

      First lets suppose these acts affected 10 million people.
      Now, lets guess the odds of this stupidity actually killing someone is 1 in 2 million (hospitals affected, heart attack 911 calls, prescription refills, etc.)
      So this disgruntled employee could have easily killed 5 people with his act of stupidity. This person should go to jail for depraved indifference for a real, real long time.

      Oh yeah, 91.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

      --

      - I live the greatest adventure anyone could possibly desire. - Tosk the Hunted
    21. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by fulldecent · · Score: 1

      Fiber = routing
      AT&T = fail

      I would say the internet acted predictably in this circumstance.

      --

      -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

    22. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by RocketRabbit · · Score: 1

      Yes, we licensed operators have ham radios. What else would one use to communicate on the ham bands - coconuts?

      And, depending on your opinion and resourcefulness, the radio can indeed replace a telephone (at least /m).

    23. Re:If this was indeed sabotage.... by gemada · · Score: 1

      or another term for it could be "starting a revolution", "fighting back" or other actions that people may partake in when they don't feel like the system is letting them be heard.

  11. Comm Loss by Dr.+Eggman · · Score: 5, Funny

    A loss of communication could only mean one thing: Invasion.

    --
    Demented But Determined.
    1. Re:Comm Loss by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Someone's invading Santa Cruz? A little late for that!

    2. Re:Comm Loss by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1


      A loss of communication could only mean one thing: Invasion.

      Rogerroger!

    3. Re:Comm Loss by Ernesto+Alvarez · · Score: 1

      Funny, I've seen nothing about the U.S. invading another country in today's news.

  12. Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Shivetya · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Say it ain't so!

    Talk about people who never left high school mentality behind. Before the local GM plant closed here in Atlanta my friend's mom worked there and he also took up that type of employment. My ex-girlfriend is a UPS driver but not in the union. All can basically come up with the same type of stories. The first rule I learned about buying cars, don't get anything made just before, during, or just after, an agreement is being negotiated. The second thing I learned is, if you have union buddies order the car and they will follow it through the plant for you... don't order the fanciest electronics but don't be surprised at what is under the seat or hidden somewhere.

    Sabotaging one's own employer is old hat. Favorite car tricks were bubble gum wads inside of panels. Dries and falls off after leaving the factory producing a nice rattle. Snappy a few clips helps too - but only inside of areas you can't see or get to easily. Getting drunk at work wasn't that difficult, if you got caught you might get in trouble, for about three days... and most of it goes away. As for my UPS friend. Finding dog shit on her car or under the handles is a monthly occurrence. Having her truck break down more than is statistically probable was a nuisance till a friend who knew the guys made it stop. Real damage to her car happened once till the police actually showed up to see it. Then it was down to harmless; if dog shit can count as harmless.

    So I put odds on it being someone inside, someone who knows the areas to hit, just what to hit to not cause an all points freak out, but enough to annoy his employer and possibly the guys who get stuck fixing it. Make the office boys work overtime and see how they like it! Yeah that will show them.

    Really it will blow your mind.

    Please don't think its a majority thing, the fact is most are very good and want a successful company and job, the twits just wreck it all because they are still in that phase of "I'll hold my breath if I don't get my way". The problem is the rest don't do anything about it for fear of being the next target.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Nimey · · Score: 5, Funny

      What does the worker's ionization level have to do with anything? I'll pick up a stray electron here and there, maybe some beta radiation from the coal plant, but that doesn't mean I'm a bad person!

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    2. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Here is a short list of things AT&T has done in recent memory: limits on "unlimited" use, cancellation of service for criticizing the company, and colluding with the RIAA & MPAA to spy on their internet customers, colluding with the NSA to illegally spy on U.S. citizens.

      If the above list reflects how badly they treat they customers, before you get upset at the people working there you should probably consider that AT&T is not treating its workers well. I'm guessing it's not a good place to work and I'm assuming the workers were probably wrong until I found out the truth of the matter.

      --
      Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
    3. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, your sentance structure is terrible. I could hardly understand that post.

    4. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      The first rule I learned about buying cars, don't get anything made just before, during, or just after, an agreement is being negotiated.

      So in otherwords, don't buy a car? It seems like agreements are always being negotiated.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    5. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, as others have pointed out in this thread, you don't even know the workers did this. They could be framed by the company, or it could be random theft. For example, a while back some houses were burned in Washington state and it was blamed on ecoterrorists, but to me it looked just like insurance fraud. The housing market was tanking and that's a sufficient motive for someone to burn the property and blame someone else. If a contract is being negotiated, AT&T has sufficient motive to make the workers look bad, just as the workers have a motive to make AT&T give them a more favorable contract.

      --
      Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
    6. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does the worker's ionization level have to do with anything? I'll pick up a stray electron here and there, maybe some beta radiation from the coal plant, but that doesn't mean I'm a bad person!

      You know what they say about free radicals!

    7. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by gandhi_2 · · Score: 1

      Actually, there is no point in time which exists that is not before, during, or after ANY union/employer agreement.

    8. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      I used to work at a really crappy place.

      I went out and found a new job.

      No union needed.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    9. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah... doesn't really surprise me much. Compounding matters is the fact that when a unionized company supplying parts to an auto-maker strikes, they like to try to keep things running by getting the non-union office people to do some of the work, temporarily.

      (I'm posting anonymously on purpose here, because I was put in one of those exact situations, some years ago.) Instead of my usual I.T. job, I was asked to go use a "straightening" machine out in our shop. Basically, it's a big, mechanized version of a sledgehammer. You put a long rod of metal on the platform, slowly turn it while you look at gauges that indicate how "true" it is near the left end, right end and center. If it's off, you hit a button and it slams down on it in the middle. Then you continue rotating the rod and see if that straightened it out, or if it needs another "whack".

      We had a big collection of driveshafts for Ford to be straightened after they were heat-treated/processed for them. I was practicing on them, essentially, and I can guarantee some of those didn't get quite straight.

    10. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by maxume · · Score: 1

      Man, there actually isn't even time.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    11. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aren't we being tad bit staticky today? That time of the month?

    12. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blah blah blah. I'm afraid of unions and really a middle manager.

    13. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Also, as others have pointed out in this thread, you don't even know the workers did this. They could be framed by the company...

      AT&T framing it's own employees while preventing people from dialing 911, because of a union dispute. Sounds like a plot from a James Bond film. I hope that's not the case, it would be extremely depressing already, and would only get worse when they get off with a slap on the wrist.

    14. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 1

      The first rule I learned about buying cars, don't get anything made just before, during, or just after, an agreement is being negotiated.

      That's funny, I've been told similar advice when purchasing used photographic equipment from the former Soviet Union. A company called Kiev (like the city) produced a really good knock-off of the legendary Hasselblad 500C medium-format camera.

      Kiev's have a reputation for their enormously inconsistent build-quality. Good ones are just as good as their German counterparts (at a fraction the price), but ones built on Fridays or Mondays were crap (shutter problems, light leaks, etc.) because everyone would start their drinking for the weekend early and come in on Monday completely hung over.

    15. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      more like:

      Blah blah blah. I envy union payrates because I make $9/hr at Geek Squad.

    16. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      For example, a while back some houses were burned in Washington state and it was blamed on ecoterrorists, but to me it looked just like insurance fraud. The housing market was tanking and that's a sufficient motive for someone to burn the property and blame someone else.

      Yeah, like four or five years back. When the housing markets *wasn't* tanking. And the group blamed was one whose members had been sighted in the area around time of the fire, and who had previously threatened to destroy the properties, and who were linked with multiple other fires.

    17. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by userlame · · Score: 1

      Sabotaging one's own employer is old hat.

      That sentence made my brain do a little shimmy.

      See also: origin of the word sabotage.

    18. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by ksheff · · Score: 1

      I had some relatives that worked for Chrysler and they had similar warnings. They said to only buy cars that were made on Tuesday or Wednesday. Thursday & Friday people are usually thinking about the weekend and not focused on their job and Monday most people were dealing with hangovers. Hopefully it wasn't put together in the afternoon by people who got stoned during the lunch break. Relatives in the railroad industry talk about all the derailments that don't make the news or how bored workers try to drag race company trucks across the rail yard - and the supervisors wonder why 6 month old trucks are falling apart....

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    19. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by anarche · · Score: 1

      what: `walk noisily in clogs.' http://www.takeourword.com/et_q-s.html#sabotage

      --
      Wait! Whats a sig?
    20. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have ever dealt with ATT on a b2b level? It is a f------ nightmare. *They* don't even know what they're doing. They have almost no communication between various silo's of the operation due in some part to federal regulation.

      To the union point, they have a strong one. We couldn't unbox our phones and set them up on the desk. Had to schedule with union dudes who were really nice and wanted to help but left a lot of crap worse than they found it.

      I imagine working there is really scary. They've been doing a lot of "right-sizing" from what I can tell.

    21. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a dimwit.

      The Washington fires were last year. In March. Housing market was not tanking then, it had only stalled (being not growing, but not shrinking much either). Further, the Washington state houses were luxury homes. High end market, very immune to downturns, and the last to slow too; those homes were already sold from what I recall. Builders do not embark on building million dollar homes unless they have buyers, a buyers don't buy million dollar homes that they have to wait to be built without custom plans; the homes were already contracted and mortgaged. Even IF there were financial difficulties, builders simply STOP building, even mid-build (I've seen this esp. in this downturn). They don't burn houses down for a mini-insurnace payment on a framed but otherwise unfinished house and fubar their development to hell and back with bad news coverage; no one would want to buy there.

      They also burned down a ski resort. Sorry, but the Seattle area probably gets pretty good powder. Even now, still probably a viable business.

      "If a contract is being negotiated, AT&T has sufficient motive to make the workers look bad, just as the workers have a motive to make AT&T give them a more favorable contract."

      So you agree that the action between the two companies is the SAME?

      Yeah...AT&T cutting lines to make workers look bad, when they can simply keep their mouth shut, keep their lines, and HIRE DIFFERENT WORKERS. The contract was over. Kaput. AT&T can do whatever the !@*# they want. No reason to cut lines.

      To the earlier poster about bad unions, yeah, many are bad. Some are still necessary though. The rest suck money away for lazy ass workers. In reply:

      "Before the local GM plant"
      "The first rule I learned about buying cars, don't get anything made just before, during, or just after, an agreement is being negotiated."

      My parents bought a Pontiac Grand Am on the last redesign around 1997 or so. GM had just released the new design, and we bought it a month or two after release, just as a union strike was going on.

      In 40 years and various vehicles through their marriage, they've never had a car with so many problems, even with cars that they had purchased which later people would claim the model was a completely lemon (Cadillac Seville circa 1984). The worse? Improperly fitted fuel hose. Would have blown up my mother if another gas station customer several lanes down hadn't looked over and saw the gasoline that had started to puddle under the car.

      We don't even look to buy GM unless we have to. And the only time then was when we went to look for a replacement cargo van (GMC had an extended mini-van).

      "My ex-girlfriend is a UPS driver but not in the union."

      Unfortunately you cite stuff that happened to her personally, which absolutely sucks. I was thinking you were going to go the GM route and give examples of bad treatment of packages, but I realized that would be futile--given how UPS handles packages, no one would have noticed.

    22. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by symbolset · · Score: 1

      If the above list reflects how badly they treat they customers, before you get upset at the people working there you should probably consider that AT&T is not treating its workers well.

      Is it true they just up and fired all the directory assistance people? And the operators who help connect your calls? And the lady that reads the time? I read that somewhere. The bastards!

      Well at least they're not a national price fixing market abusing company like that old monopoly we used to have that was broken up into "baby bells". I wish I could remember the name of that monster. You definitely didn't want to do business with them, but you had no choice.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    23. Re:Sabotage by a unionized employee? by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      I don't envy the union payrates, I envy the unionized worker's ability to provide no (or negative) value to the company while still drawing a salary. That's a pretty sweet gig, even if it is morally disgusting.

  13. It's a wave *and* a particle by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Funny

    Could be someone trying to steal the fiber cables so they could sell the copper.

    Give him a break guys, after all since the cables are carrying photons they can simultaneously be glass and copper. It all depends on what you do with them.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:It's a wave *and* a particle by SCPRedMage · · Score: 5, Funny

      The cables are indeed both glass and copper. But only until you check.

      --
      My sig can beat up your sig.
    2. Re:It's a wave *and* a particle by vrmlguy · · Score: 1

      Schrodinger called, he wants his cat back.

      --
      Nothing for 6-digit uids?
    3. Re:It's a wave *and* a particle by SCPRedMage · · Score: 1

      I may or may not have bad news for him...

      --
      My sig can beat up your sig.
    4. Re:It's a wave *and* a particle by iphayd · · Score: 1

      He has it. So do I.

  14. Conficker by odin84gk · · Score: 3, Funny

    We learned another important detail about Conficker. Not only does it destroy software, but it feeds on fiber!

    1. Re:Conficker by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      We learned another important detail about Conficker. Not only does it destroy software, but it feeds on fiber!

      Fortunately, an anti-Conficker program has been developed. It's called 'Super Colon-Blow'.

    2. Re:Conficker by Earthquake+Retrofit · · Score: 1

      We learned another important detail about Conficker. Not only does it destroy software, but it feeds on fiber!

      You know, that's the first thing I thought. The working group site was broken earlier and one report said it was blamed on a problem with fiber. Three cuts seems to indicate coordination. And it's the day Conflicker chooses to update it's older versions. (Adjusting tinfoil)

      Steve

      P.S. This is the first time I've posted using Linux.

      --
      Fifty years of Yippie! 1968-2018
    3. Re:Conficker by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Congrats!

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
  15. And that sound... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And that sound was the joke going WAY over your head at 50,000 feet.

  16. You know, like I've heard a lot of old timers say by mdm-adph · · Score: 1

    The whole Internet is so fragile on the backend.

    Could one day we just learn to deal with the 1000ms latency times of a completely satellite-based network?

    (Yes, I know it's not flawless, but it would prevent a lot of things like this happening.)

    --
    It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
  17. Or it could have been... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    .. a large cargo ship that got extremely lost and had to put down anchor.

    1. Re:Or it could have been... by cyphercell · · Score: 1

      Pirates!!!

      --
      Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
    2. Re:Or it could have been... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In before "butt pirates" joke!

  18. Just curious... by cplusplus · · Score: 1

    ...but how do you repair a fiber optic cable that has been cut? What is the magic process for sticking it back together?

    --
    "False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
    1. Re:Just curious... by bami · · Score: 5, Informative

      ...but how do you repair a fiber optic cable that has been cut? What is the magic process for sticking it back together?

      splicing it together.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_splicing

      It's like getting two copper wires and just heating the copper to such a high temperature that they melt and re-form one strand.

    2. Re:Just curious... by Starteck81 · · Score: 1

      I've never seen one operated but there are machines that cut the damaged ends, polish, and fuse a replacement length of fiber. The process is accurate to some small faction of a millimeter.

      For more info fusion splice

      --
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed H
    3. Re:Just curious... by Anti_Climax · · Score: 1

      Depending on the materials used (glass or different types of plastic) they can be fused back together with heat or an appropriate optically clear resin. I'd imagine each time it has to be done it would add a bit of loss to the line.

      I don't work with fiber, just an educated guess.

      --
      Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
    4. Re:Just curious... by georgewilliamherbert · · Score: 5, Informative

      Cut the fiber carefully and cleanly back from the cut, which has ragged ends. Usually a few feet in each direction.

      Bring in a fiber patch section.

      Go in with fiber polishing gear, to every individual fiber on one side, polish end, test end, polish again until it's smooth enough. Identify what fiber ID that fiber is. patch it together with the patch cable. Repeat on the other side of the patch.

      Cross-test to ensure that you didn't cross any fibers in the reattachment - if so, pick one end as new ground truth, and repatch or logically reroute the other to match new physical reality.

      Once the whole bundle has been repolished, patched, and tested on both sides, you wrap the patch sections up with new covering (armored section, flexible covering, depends on the cable and location). Apply waterproofing goop.

      Put the manhole cover back on. Consider locking it down in place, this time...

      This is tedious work, requires careful attention to detail to properly polish the cut fiber ends and repatch them, and for large fiber bundles takes forever. You can start running data through a fiber once its two ends are repatched - you don't have to get the whole bundle back for that - but the whole process can take 24-48 hours depending on how many fibers are involved and how much space there is to work in the trench or down the manhole. In many cases, there's only enough space for 1 or maybe 2 people to be working at any given time, which makes the repairs take forever...

    5. Re:Just curious... by Chabo · · Score: 1

      Well, what I'd do is take the cut ends, terminate them both, and put a coupler in the middle. It won't be "good as new", but it'll do pretty well. If it's a critical piece of fiber, you could put a repeater in, and theoretically improve the performance.

      Re-terminating a fiber by hand takes less than 15 minutes, (I've only done it once, so it may even be well under 10 minutes for someone who does it all the time) and you'll have performance nearly as good as before.

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    6. Re:Just curious... by silent_artichoke · · Score: 1

      Duct tape, of course.

    7. Re:Just curious... by Cramer · · Score: 2, Informative

      you'll have performance nearly as good as before

      No you wont. This is not 62.5/50micron multi-mode fiber. A coupler in a single-mode fiber causes a great deal of signal loss. I have never seen anyone terminate SM fiber anywhere but a termination point (i.e. at the equipment, repeater, or patch pannel inside a building.) "Just install a repeater" is laughable... those things are not free and require power that isn't found in most ditches.

      Today, we have very good equipment for making fusion splices -- to the point it's almost automatic. The real time consuming process is getting to the fiber to fix it in the first place. Followed closely behind by the tediousness of getting each strand connected to the correct other half.

    8. Re:Just curious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to do this for a living. The part that takes the longest is prepping the fiber. The individual fibers are usually in small tubes that are filled with a water blocking gel. The gel is really sticky and a real pain to clean off. If there was enough slack you would only have to splice the ends together. If there were no slack then you would have splice in a piece. You can see the slack that is stored between poles, there are metal frames that look like snowshoes. When the crews are installing the fiber the wrap some cable between the snowshoes for this type of circumstance.
      The machine I used was very cool. It used about 600v between 2 electrodes to melt the fiber together. All you had to do after you prepped the fiber was position each end in the machine and press the button. It would feed the fiber ends toward each other ever so slightly as it arced across the electrodes and melted the fiber together. This took less than a second, the time consuming part was getting every thing ready.

    9. Re:Just curious... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      One place where I worked another agency was digging a hole with a boring machine, straight down in the middle of the road. They hit our fibre cable straight on. You know when you stick a fork into a plate of spaghetti and twist it.....

      That one took a while to fix.

    10. Re:Just curious... by pete-classic · · Score: 2, Funny

      Vitrus repairo. You never pay attention in Flitwick's class.

      -Peter

    11. Re:Just curious... by ksilebo · · Score: 1

      Despite this long repair window, you'd think these companies would install some sort of redundant system to fail over to when the cable is cut....

    12. Re:Just curious... by ksilebo · · Score: 1

      Dammit, meant "in spite of"

    13. Re:Just curious... by Chabo · · Score: 1

      Fair enough; I've never terminated single-mode fiber. I only even have a tiny bit of experience as a user of single-mode; almost all of my fiber dealings have been multi-mode.

      I wasn't suggesting that a repeater would be a trivial solution though -- I did say "if it's a critical piece of fiber". I know they'd require power, but if you really needed a repeater, I would assume you'd go to the trouble of getting power to it, like having the power company allow you to tap into nearby powerlines, if they exist.

      I didn't know that fusion splicing was that easy, so I hereby retract my post. :)

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    14. Re:Just curious... by kabocox · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is tedious work, requires careful attention to detail to properly polish the cut fiber ends and repatch them, and for large fiber bundles takes forever. You can start running data through a fiber once its two ends are repatched - you don't have to get the whole bundle back for that - but the whole process can take 24-48 hours depending on how many fibers are involved and how much space there is to work in the trench or down the manhole. In many cases, there's only enough space for 1 or maybe 2 people to be working at any given time, which makes the repairs take forever...

      How long would it take to repair if a few lines were cut, and the manhole cover was rigged so that the person opening would set off a pipe bomb or grenade? O.k. What kinda of union hassles/strikes would happen if that happened once, twice, or a half dozen times?

      That's something a more competent uni-bomber could do.

      Now assume that the fiber-bomber has planned 4/1/2011 to bring down an entire state or metro area. He basically plants a pipe bomb with a timer for his black out date behind or on the lines coming into as many sections as he can find. Let's declare this a domestic terrorist that has used his two week vacation to do this and has only used house hold products found at walmart for supplies. Let's say he is willing to spend $2K on gas and his various supplies. How much of the internet could our fictional fiber-bomber physically take down and how long would it take to repair it?

      That's the kinda of terrorist that gives government folks real nightmares. There is no way to stop that kinda of individual.

    15. Re:Just curious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for posting with your name. It'll save the 3 minute call to the home office to get your address. We'll be by to pick you up in a couple minutes. Continue as usual, we know were you are.

    16. Re:Just curious... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      fiber glue.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    17. Re:Just curious... by darrylo · · Score: 1

      How about "Nuclear-grade duct tape"?: http://lifehacker.com/5159500/nuclear-grade-duct-tape

    18. Re:Just curious... by MartinSchou · · Score: 1

      Just don't get it mixed up with fusion welding. When the Mythbusters tried it, I heard they managed to take out windows a mile away

    19. Re:Just curious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds to me like this would be a perfect job for a dedicated robot with camera. Worker does initial positioning of robot and preparation of work piece and then the robot whips through fusing all the fibres.

    20. Re:Just curious... by symbolset · · Score: 1

      That's the kinda of terrorist that gives government folks real nightmares. There is no way to stop that kinda of individual.

      Which kind of makes the HR guy for the companies that maintain these links kinda important. You don't want some guy recruiting H1B fiber techs from Pakistan for this gig.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    21. Re:Just curious... by pimpimpim · · Score: 1
      This would not be the act of a terrorist. A terrorist act has the goal to as efficiently bring fear in the largest part of the population. Your scheme would only bring fear to the workers of the local fibre maintenance company, and only inconvenience to the rest of the population. Seriously, what happened to just putting bombs near crowds? The idea is to instill fear into the public that at no place in their daily life they are safe.

      True, cutting fiber at different parts in town would bring chaos, but why would you use a plan that requires such meticulous planning (and therefore a bigger chance to fail) when you could do it with easier means, just bomb one or two medium sized electricity outlets and along with the electricity network most communication systems will go down.

      The stuff you describe would better fit a psychopath, but why would a psychopath purposely endanger the lifes of glass fiber technicians, unless of course they had a traumatic experience with one of them in their youth.

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
    22. Re:Just curious... by vertinox · · Score: 1

      How long would it take to repair if a few lines were cut, and the manhole cover was rigged so that the person opening would set off a pipe bomb or grenade? O.k. What kinda of union hassles/strikes would happen if that happened once, twice, or a half dozen times?

      As opposed to putting a bomb on a bus or the subway?

      Anyone who wants to hurt another human can and will. There is no real good way to stop that except to hide in a cave.

      Actually, I remember that History Channel about that guy who goes underground of cities and they did a Washington, DC episode and the sewer system security was pretty strict. I think most manhole covers in DC are locked down and electronically monitored.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    23. Re:Just curious... by kabocox · · Score: 1

      True, cutting fiber at different parts in town would bring chaos, but why would you use a plan that requires such meticulous planning (and therefore a bigger chance to fail) when you could do it with easier means, just bomb one or two medium sized electricity outlets and along with the electricity network most communication systems will go down.

      The stuff you describe would better fit a psychopath, but why would a psychopath purposely endanger the lifes of glass fiber technicians, unless of course they had a traumatic experience with one of them in their youth.

      Nah, the only big planning is setting a date, and setting the devices. I'd think that it would be easy for any IT guy that was aware of how fiber is run to ID it and pick some of the easier places to cut it. True, actually killing the repair techs is just mean, but it isn't so much of instilling fear as in slowing down repair efforts. As a ruse of war, you are taken out the trained civilians that can actually repair the infrastructure that you just took out. O.k. if a foreign country planed to do this, it could cost only a few million, and instead of timers, have 'em hooked up to either single purpose cell phones, or some remote controlled device so that they just sit there waiting just in case your country is ever at war with the US. Delayed bombs and such aren't about killing lots of civilians, they are about killing trained techs that are able to repair the infrastructure. Say that you just added a month or two to the repair time. That would work fine.

      Now as one of nut job terrorist plot, it would suck for widespread killing except unless you had some personal grudge against a few techs or the companies within that region. But think of the school shooting stuff. I a lot of that is being up set at the world and wanting to take out as many of those that were picking on the individual when they make their big shooting run. O.k. new personal rule don't piss off any nut jobs at work.

    24. Re:Just curious... by iphayd · · Score: 1

      I had a run of fiber spliced at work last summer (we got rid of a trailer that had a patch panel in it.)

      - First, they prep the cable by putting a case around the area to be spliced.
      - Next they splice it, although it can't be a windy day because the splicer will not have consistent temps.

      The machine heats up the ends, pushes them together, then pulls them back apart just enough that there is no bulge, but not enough that there is a thin spot either. It then tests the splice to make sure it is a good one. Finally the operator slides the sleeve over the splice and the machine heats it to shrink it in place.

      - The operator then places the strand into the carrier within the case and does the next one.
      - When all of the strands are done, he torques all of the seals on the case and fills it with nitrogen. It can then be buried.

  19. BOFH by Starteck81 · · Score: 1, Informative

    Sound like the work of the Bastard Operator From Hell.

    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed H
  20. Fiber Cut Solved: +1, PatRIOTic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Get some pipe and welding equipment.

    Yours In Corruption,
    Ted Stevens

  21. Story is a troll? by PFAK · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Back in '05 when our local telecommunications company (TELUS) in British Columbia went on strike, some lines were cut and service for a couple thousand customers was lost. Of course, the first thing the company does is blame the union for sabotage.

    Turns out it was just some thieves cutting the lines for copper, but that didn't come out until a month after the labour dispute ended.

    Most likely the same thing happened here, thieves aren't exactly smart and most union employees would not risk the bad press something like this would generate.

    --

    Free means no restrictions, ironic the FSF's GPL forces restrictions, isn't it? What's your definition of free?
    1. Re:Story is a troll? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most likely the same thing happened here

      thieves aren't exactly smart

      Cutting fiber optic lines for copper...

      Those would have to be some rather stupid thieves.

      union employees would not risk the bad press

      yeah, whatever.

    2. Re:Story is a troll? by darkwhite · · Score: 1

      In this case, it sounds like someone knew exactly what they were doing, and they knew there was nothing they could steal, and brought along serious equipment. This was certainly sabotage, the question is by whom.

      --

      [an error occurred while processing this directive]
    3. Re:Story is a troll? by SCPRedMage · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your average copper thief isn't exactly a trained professional. Hell, most of the copper theft around where I live is down by transients who probably don't know a damned thing about cables other than that they can sell them.

      Put a length of fiber and a length copper in front of them, don't let them see the ends, and they'll NEVER know the difference.

      --
      My sig can beat up your sig.
    4. Re:Story is a troll? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just like a Union Apologist. You conveniently leave out the Union Zealots who refused to allow a repair truck through to fix a cut line in a community where it was their only 911 access and there was a woman with a medical condition. They had to AIRLIFT a repair crew in because the Union Zealots refused to place a womans health ahead of their delusional demands.

      You also fail to mention that it was in BC where most of the union zealotry took place. 60% of employees in Alberta crossed the picket lines.

      Oh, and don't forget to mention how the Union later targetted selected employees for retribution, attempting to sue them in civil court for crossing the picket lines, picking only those they thought wouldn't fight back (financially strapped single parents for the most part). A lawyer defended them pro bono, and they have repeatedly lost in civil court but CONTINUE to spend union dues suing union members in vengeance.

      The TWU is as bad as any bad corporation to its members.

    5. Re:Story is a troll? by chris.evans · · Score: 1

      Alkeda.

  22. Multiple cuts as sabatoge by internerdj · · Score: 1

    Oh wait, by multiple they mean two...

    1. Re:Multiple cuts as sabatoge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      which means more than one hence...

    2. Re:Multiple cuts as sabatoge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, even zero is a multiple of something...

  23. Act of Terrorism by altek · · Score: 1

    I'd put money that they will call this an act of terrorism if they catch the parties responsible. These folks are going to get pinned to the wall. Especially since they have disrupted infrastructure and broken the 911 system.

    --
    THE MAGIC WORDS ARE SQUEAMISH OSSIFRAGE
    1. Re:Act of Terrorism by altek · · Score: 1

      Wow, bitter much???

      Seriously, it's folks like you who contribute to our divided country. How can you possibly state that people wouldn't or shouldn't care about acts of terrorism on American lives simply because they reside somewhere that you don't like the culture or politics (or whatever crack pot reason you have).

      It's diversity that makes America great.

      Stop trolling.

      --
      THE MAGIC WORDS ARE SQUEAMISH OSSIFRAGE
    2. Re:Act of Terrorism by The+Mighty+Buzzard · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nah, this is San Francisco we're talking about after all. They'll probably trace it back to a couple college kids who heard smoking fiber gave you a killer high and immediately start up federally funded fiber-smoking bars.

      --
      Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
    3. Re:Act of Terrorism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's Santa Clara county. Completely different set of politics.

      But nice try painting the whole area with your politically jaded wide brush.

    4. Re:Act of Terrorism by Crackez · · Score: 1

      First, they didn't break 911, they somewhat broke E911. Subtle but important difference. there's 52 LMUs down, which means they can't trilaterate the position of 911 callers from Cell phones on the AT&T network in that area. It's probably a much bigger deal that several cell sites are unavailable. Lets just hope no ones life depends on it.

    5. Re:Act of Terrorism by pcolaman · · Score: 1

      People in SF only care about diversity if it benefits their cause. Just ask the United States Military.

    6. Re:Act of Terrorism by pcolaman · · Score: 0, Troll

      I'm from the Eastern US so I don't care if the whole damn state of California falls into the ocean.

    7. Re:Act of Terrorism by justinlee37 · · Score: 1

      You ought to, considering that you'd no longer enjoy the benefits of all the federal income tax they pay. How would America fund its frivolous, misguided wars without all of that hard currency?

    8. Re:Act of Terrorism by pcolaman · · Score: 1

      You are joking, right? We're not too far off from bailing out California because they are on the verge of bankruptcy. They are the only state in the US that may fail completely if they do not get the bailout money because their economy is hemmoraging cash. Don't get me started on wasteful spending. Obama took a bad deficit and made it worse in less time than it took for Bush to even mobilize our military to Iraq. The Iraq war was a huge mistake and we're paying for that now, only we're making things worse by spending our way into an even worse hole.

    9. Re:Act of Terrorism by justinlee37 · · Score: 1

      You're joking, right? Regardless of the merit of the federal spending program, or the current state of the Californian government's books, you ought to care if an entire state of people fell out of the union. Particularly California. It's a major sea trade center, the site of a historical gold rush, and the center of America's modern movie industry. Think of all the money the Californian citizens generate and try to consider that objectively outside of the state government deficit, the actions of the fed and your own political slant.

      While Schwarzenegger's administration has estimated the gap between state income and outgo over the next 18 months at $40 billion, California is responsible for 13% of the United States' gross domestic product (GDP). The state's GDP is at about $1.7 trillion (as of 2006).

      Regardless of what's going on right now in the government and the economy, you'd be right fucked if California dropped off the face of the map. Or, better yet, if we gave it back to Mexico. It was kinda theirs to begin with before we shot a bunch of Mexicans and called it ours.

    10. Re:Act of Terrorism by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      Some 911 centers themselves were actually mostly down, unable to get calls routed to them except from local landlines that dialed directly. From a Santa Cruz Sentinel article:

      NETCOM, the dispatch center for most police and fire agencies in Santa Cruz County, was able to receive 911 calls placed from hard lines, but could not receive calls placed from cell phones, senior dispatcher Stephanie Zube said.

    11. Re:Act of Terrorism by pcolaman · · Score: 1

      Or, better yet, if we gave it back to the Aztecs and Myans. It was kinda theirs to begin with before we shot a bunch of fellow invaders and called it ours.

      There, fixed it for you.

    12. Re:Act of Terrorism by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      There were no Aztecs or Mayans in what later became the state of California.

      California Pre-contact Tribal Territories Map

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    13. Re:Act of Terrorism by pcolaman · · Score: 1

      Nope, but plenty in Mexico. The Spanish killed most of them. And the Mexicans were the ones he said we stole it from. My point (although, if I wanted to be truly accurate, I would've said Native Americans) was that we did nothing less bad than what the Spanish did before us. So it's really a stupid thing to say, being that the strongest generally survive and conquer. Us taking California and Texas from Mexico is really no different than the Spanish taking Mesoamerica from the Aztecs and the Myans.

    14. Re:Act of Terrorism by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      You have a point. An imbecilic, off-topic point, but a point nevertheless.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    15. Re:Act of Terrorism by pcolaman · · Score: 1

      My original point (got off-topic mainly because of people flaming me without taking a second to really consider my post) was that authorities in San Fransisco will not call this terrorism, with all due respect to the OP. They shelter illegal aliens in open defiance of state and federal laws (San Francisco is a publicly noted and self proclaimed Sanctuary City. Don't bother trying to correct me on this, it's been proclaimed by the Mayor himself). San Francisco also defied state drug regulations (whether you agree or disagree with them, that doesn't mean you get to just openly defy these laws).

      San Francisco claims to be a city of civil liberties, but anyone or any organization that is Pro-Life or Pro-Military (or just Pro-anything that liberals think is moral grandstanding) is openly criticized by the local government and the US Military on many occasions has had to fight the city trying to kick out their recruiters, who have just as much of a right (both legally and in the spirit of the freedoms of our constitution) to be there as any other agency, whether it be the military, a peace corps recruiter, or PETA and Green Peace. SF reminds me a lot of the ACLU. Used to be great, but has been compromised by hypocritical ideaology. SF is considered a place where people are free to think and do as they wish, but this is only the case if you "think like they do." Let's remember that we all have the same rights, even if we think people who don't think like us are right.

      Flame away, call me an idiot conservative troll, I really don't care, I have karma to burn. But really, anyone who thinks that anyone in SF is going to start screaming terrorism is incredibly, stupidly naive. Maybe if it was Rush Limbaugh throwing stink bombs at an Abortion Doctor. They'd probably try to get him sent to Gitmo (although I find him incredibly annoying, I wouldn't be against sending him to some remote island myself). But if it was a gay, illegal immigrant setting off a bomb near a military recruiting center, they'd say he's a persecuted innocent and try to hide him in some basement when the FBI came calling. Yeah, it's an exaggeration, but really, how far off the mark is it?

    16. Re:Act of Terrorism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, so it doesn't?

  24. Bank Robbers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That was my first thought. Cut off 911, and other hiden alarm systems, then rob bank

  25. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  26. Re:You know, like I've heard a lot of old timers s by orkybash · · Score: 1

    Depends - what do you plan to do with it? Web browsing? Streaming media? Voice or video chat? Networked games? For some of those a 1 second latency is only a minor inconvenience, but for others its a bit more serious than that.
    There's also the question of bandwidth costs which, I'm guessing, are more than a little bit higher for satellite-based networks.

  27. Must have been a Canuck..... by IgnacioB · · Score: 1

    If it is terrorism from an insurgent...that's the most angry Canadian I've ever heard of...and we clearly need better border security for this new threat!

  28. Status from earlier in the day... by sillivalley · · Score: 5, Informative

    Activity Type Code Desc: PROGRESS COMMENTS
    Activity Type Code: PROG

    OTDR readings were taken by AT&T West and a cut was located 1600 ft from
    the San Jose, CA central office. AT&T West technicians are onsite
    working to isolate the exact location of the cut. There are 4 cables
    impacted. AT&T Mobility has 61 GSM and 45 co-located UMTS sites out of
    service off of Santa Clara Base Station Controllers 15 & 23, and Santa
    Clara Radio Network Controller 4. E911 has 52 Location Measuring Units
    down. The AT&T West Santa Cruz 11 central office (41,803 ATNs) is
    experiencing an SS7 isolation and the San Martin central office (11,904
    ATNs) lost it's umbilical and is isolated at this time. The Bailey
    remote site (4,973 ATNs) is also isolated. Scott's Valley has 3 out of 4
    SS7 links down. The Santa Cruz 01, Aptos, Scott's Valley, Felton,
    Boulder Creek, Ben Lomand, San Jose 11, San Jose 13, San Jose 21 central
    offices have trunks impacted such that all lines are busy and incoming
    calls are receiving trouble messages. The Santa Cruz County SO (178,040
    ATNs), Scott's Valley PD (12,007 ATNs) and the UC Santa Cruz PD (14,909
    ATNs) are all without ALI at this time. The Gilroy PD PSAP and the
    Morgan Hill PD and CDF have been rerouted with ALI/ANI. The Felton CDF
    has not been rerouted. There are 17 DSLAMS and 4 ATMS out of service
    impacting DSL service. There are 3 SMDI Links down impacting voicemail
    service. Verizon's Morgan Hill and Gilroy central offices are currently
    isolated. There have been 224,865 blocked calls.

    1. Re:Status from earlier in the day... by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

      Dunno if I would be quite so quick to point the finger at a
      disgruntled Union employee just yet. It would make little
      sense to cut the fiber BEFORE a strike actually takes place.

      Typically, when something like this occurs, the folks responsible
      will wait until the strike goes active as it would greatly prolong
      the outage. With that said, I can't imagine any reason for someone
      doing this ahead of time outside of a potential warning. -shrug-

      The contract has expired yes, but as of this writing, there
      isn't any information from the Union nor the Company on how
      the negotiations are going outside of the usual propaganda from
      both sides.

      There are currently two rumor mills circulating about. One has a
      potential strike occuring sometime in the May timeframe. The other
      pegs it as early as Easter Sunday. Either way, I wish they would
      either agree to the damn contract or get on with a strike. Sitting
      at work not knowing for days on end really gets annoying after a while. :|

      If a strike does happen, it's going to simply be a test to see who
      can hold out the longest. On one hand you have folks not getting paid
      in a sh*tty economy. On the other, the company will be working it's
      management to death to compensate. My understanding is twelve hour
      shifts, six days per week initially. Folks being moved around to different
      offices means roundtrip drive times of two to three hours ( traffic permitting )
      in some cases.

      It boils down to:

      Can the non-management folks handle the lack of pay long enough to outlast
      the management who will be ready to kill anything in sight after a few weeks
      of insanity level work hours ?

      All in all, this is just going to suck for everyone.

      *Except those highly compensated executive types and high level Union officials*

    2. Re:Status from earlier in the day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like someone is posting from some NOC. Maybe ATT global noc?

    3. Re:Status from earlier in the day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you spell U-N-I-O-N-S????
      http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/04/taking-out-internet-with-hacksaw.html

    4. Re:Status from earlier in the day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Coordinates of San Jose fiber cut: 37.25722,-121.805665

  29. Looking on the bright side by OMGcAPSLOCK · · Score: 5, Funny

    At least this happened in a geographically fortuitous area when it comes to repairing the damage. I hear San Francisco has some of the most experienced pipe specialists in the country

    1. Re:Looking on the bright side by GNUbuntu · · Score: 1

      I hear San Francisco has some of the most experienced pipe specialists in the country

      That's what he said!

    2. Re:Looking on the bright side by geekoid · · Score: 1

      They're in it for the glory.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Looking on the bright side by dhammabum · · Score: 1

      That's OK, you look. I don't want to damage my eyes.

      --
      I am not a robot. I am a unicorn.
    4. Re:Looking on the bright side by Triv · · Score: 1

      At least this happened in a geographically fortuitous area when it comes to repairing the damage. I hear San Francisco has some of the most experienced pipe specialists in the country

      Wait. Was that some sort of gay joke, or some sort of stoner joke? Or I guess some sort of gay stoner joke.

      Whoa. That hippie's starting to kick in.

  30. Explains a lot by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can't get through to ucsc.edu today.

    --
    Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    1. Re:Explains a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bad day to set up a firewall. I thought the firewall was blocking everything :( ...couple more grey hairs

    2. Re:Explains a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Duuuuuude they're just practicing for the 4/20 brownout.

    3. Re:Explains a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My pr0n site is down too...

  31. ObCoolHandLuke by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1

    What we have here, is a failure to communicate!

    --
    Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
  32. Re:Tweets by silent_artichoke · · Score: 2, Funny

    I dugg your slashdotteriffic post after I reddit.

  33. these weasels always get to walk in a year or two. by swschrad · · Score: 1

    it's a Federal offense to tamper with regulated communications infrastructure, five years in the slammer and (pitifully inadequate) $5000 fine. they need to catch these weasels, and for once, put them away like the Wacko bin Loonies they are. a garden variety thug in Fargo took that town down for almost a week with a hacksaw a few years ago, and only sat for a year to think about it.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  34. ya gotta look at it with the OTHER bad eye by swschrad · · Score: 1

    long haul comms always run on laser IR light. can't look for it with a broom handle (the smoking part is where the light is) because it's not THAT powerful. doesn't have to be for an eye toaster, though. even visible red multimode fibers should be hack-tested with a dull white paper if you don't have your power meter with you, that's too bright for ya, too.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  35. Question by moniker127 · · Score: 1

    Why would an ATT employee make more work for themselves by cutting a fiber line? Besides, they're still in negotiations.

    1. Re:Question by dwye · · Score: 1
      It is always possible that some kind-hearted pychopath is trying to be helpful, like the pair who shot Frick (Andrew Carnegie's partner) during the Homestead Steel Strike against the Carnegie Steel Corporation.

      After all, that turned out so well (not).

  36. Haven't had this much fun... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Since a backhoe cut 50,000 fiber lines twice in two days in North San Jose. The phone company had people watching the backhoe to make sure that didn't happen a third time.

    1. Re:Haven't had this much fun... by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Haven't had this much fun... Since a backhoe cut 50,000 fiber lines twice in two days in North San Jose. The phone company had people watching the backhoe to make sure that didn't happen a third time.

      They were watching the backhoe? Did they suspect it of being a robot in disguise? 'Cause you can usually tell by the presence of a red or purple face-like logo prominently emblazoned upon it.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  37. Revision3 by hippie-joel · · Score: 1

    San Francisco bay area you say? I blame Revision3, since IIRC they are located there...

  38. Two cuts in two hours = 1 person by klapaucjusz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's not multiple cuts. It's just two cuts, done within two hours. The two sites are apparently within an hours' drive.

    So it's not some massive conspiracy, just a single person with a saw.

    Interestingly enough, while our best-beloved governments are posturing about how they need to enact even more security laws in order to fight terrorism, a single person with a chainsaw is all it takes to deprive a large area of telephone and Internet service, including emergency service.

    1. Re:Two cuts in two hours = 1 person by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How unpatriotic, criticizing terrorism laws! Expect a knock on your door.

    2. Re:Two cuts in two hours = 1 person by GNUbuntu · · Score: 1

      It's not multiple cuts. It's just two cuts

      You've just contradicted yourself.

      1 : consisting of, including, or involving more than one

      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/multiple

      Unless someone has changed things, I'm pretty sure two is more than one.

    3. Re:Two cuts in two hours = 1 person by roaddemon · · Score: 2, Funny

      You had to bring Mr. Webster in for this? Like bringing a gun to a knife fight, no?

    4. Re:Two cuts in two hours = 1 person by Macrat · · Score: 1

      So it's not some massive conspiracy, just a single person with a saw.

      Have you tried to move a man hole cover by yourself?

    5. Re:Two cuts in two hours = 1 person by Maelwryth · · Score: 1

      I wonder if you could splice the cable to a more powerful laser and burn out a whole line? Does anyone know if it is possible to overload a fiber optic cable?

      --
      I reserve the write to mangle english.
  39. Satellite for redundancy by klapaucjusz · · Score: 1

    Could one day we just learn to deal with the 1000ms latency times of a completely satellite-based network?

    A satellite net is suboptimal for day-to-day traffic, but it's just perfect for backup. I'm sure you'd be willing to deal with a couple seconds RTT when all the other links are broken.

    But redundancy doesn't pay -- it's more economic for an operator to have no redundancy, and blame any issues it has on the trade unions.

    (I'm actually amazed to hear that the emergency services went off too -- they don't even have backup for 911 service.)

  40. Free Terry Childs!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know he had something to do with it.

  41. Re:You know, like I've heard a lot of old timers s by quickOnTheUptake · · Score: 1

    Issues of latency aside:
    1) I don't know the numbers, but it seems like there would be a very definite limit (given the technology at any particular time) to how much data can be broadcast to an area over the air on a finite RF band. Given that satellites tend to cover large areas I doubt they would come close to satisfying demand.
    2) satellite links can be just down through interference (natural or manmade) or bad weather. Fiber actually has to be cut. In a lot of ways, going all satellite would make the Internet even more fragile. To say nothing of the potential for communications satellites to be shot down by other states.
    So no, I don't think we are going to go to all sat links. The answer to this problem seems to be just adding more redundancy to the networks so that cutting a few lines doesn't cut off an area entirely.

    --
    Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
    Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
  42. Not Terrorism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Communication disruption is a prelude to invasion...

  43. When I heard the news this morning... by Phizzle · · Score: 1

    I thought it was the same retards that cut fiber in Union City few months ago. Turned out those idiots were looking for copper :)

    --
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
  44. Back In My Day by sexconker · · Score: 1

    We buried our cables.

  45. Fiber Lines easy to Find? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aren't fiber lines buried in the ground, in big plastic conduit? Wouldn't someone kind of need to know where it was, and have the equipment to dig it up and cut it?

    Yeah, I'd say it's pretty safe to say that it was someone in the company.

    That's just my humble opinion. If I'm wrong, however, I'd think my humble opinion that they need to get their heads out of their ass and put 911 service on a medium that can't be as easily disrupted is relatively valid.

    1. Re:Fiber Lines easy to Find? by Bourbonium · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yep, AT&T confirms someone climbed down an unsecured manhole to cut the cable in San Jose and in Gilroy. These things don't accidentally cut themselves, so yeah, I think it was probably someone who knew they could do a lot of damage with very little effort, who knew where the manholes were easily accessible and knew which cables to cut.

  46. Re:You know, like I've heard a lot of old timers s by maxume · · Score: 1

    I prevent car accidents by driving a picnic table.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  47. I'd expect four. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    SONET fiber is in a ring, so there are two routes to every box. These cuts were very widely separated and the outages affect areas beyond them. So I doubt they'd be cuts on the same ring and would expect there to be FOUR cuts, not two.

    Of course maybe the telcos were putting in some stuff on the cheap, with the fibers for both halves of the ring going along the same path or using a tree rather than a ring topology and merely having redundant fibers but still a long stretch of potential single-points-of-failure (close to the same thing). But I wouldn't expect that of even a modern phone company. Service requirements are too high.

    So I'm wondering where the other two cuts are.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:I'd expect four. by vrmlguy · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, you must have missed this comment: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1194265&cid=27528153

      --
      Nothing for 6-digit uids?
  48. Shotgun! by ferrgle · · Score: 1

    Is this another USA shotgun thing?

  49. Re:Your optic fu is strong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I can tell from your UID and the description that you know the old school ways.

    I never want to see another polishing puck again.

    The new fusion splicers really do make it easy as now it is just strip the insulation back a quarter inch for the 62.5 (MM)or more probably 9 (SM), get a good cleave, and let the fusion splicer rip. Have seen a 24 strand cut fixed in about two hours, with about a quarter of the splices at 0.0dB loss (yes, I do mean ZERO) and the rest 0.05 to 0.1.

    I think Corning Cable Systems (Siecor) also has a ribbon cable splicer for instant pigtails up to 72 strand, its been a few years since this happened, so not really up on the latest.

  50. No problems here by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

    I've been in San Carlos all day, and not a hint of any network problems.

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  51. tinfoil by saiha · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Mountain View (and some surrounding areas) have had a power outage, fiber cut and internet outage all within a 24 hour period. The spooks must be setting up some new equipment.

    1. Re:tinfoil by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      Hmm... a cable cut would be the perfect cover for a splice elsewhere.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
  52. Vulnerabilities..... by IHC+Navistar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's really *not* that hard to get to underground conduits and vaults where utility and telecommunications lines run. Anybody who can pry open a manhole or defeat a lock can gain access to these lines, as the type of utility (water, power, gas, telecom) is usually cast into the metal cover itself. Any deranged individual with a screwdriver can access these points and cause a major outage. Even someone knocking down a utility pole or above-ground junction box (both most commonly by accident) can cause a major outage.

    Telecom and power runs are particularly vulnerable, as they generally share the same pole, vault, or conduit, as it reduces the digging and pipe laying that needs to be done.

    When it comes to fiber and phone lines, the risks are pretty small, as cutting or damaging fiber is easy, and there are no high-voltages to worry about. Phone lines are the same, since the voltage is low enough that a wooden or plastic handled tool is all the protection that is needed from shocks.

    The downside of technology is that the more advanced it gets, the more vulnerable it is to failing. The only solution would be to armor fiber runs, but that would not stop a determined nutjob from success and would be extremely expensive.

    Might be worth it though in areas where this kind of anarchic behavior is present.

    --
    Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
    1. Re:Vulnerabilities..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrap the fiber optics around the power transmission lines to the city. That should keep the average Joe Copper Theif away.

    2. Re:Vulnerabilities..... by IHC+Navistar · · Score: 1

      Haha! "Joe Copper".....

      Nice pun. In my part of California, we've had people stealing live power cables and even pressurized irrigation and water pipes and such..... Even manhole covers, large statues, and industrial HVAC units off of building and gymnasium roofs (there was a case out here where 6 such units were removed off of the roofs of a high school overnight, and in a populated area)!

      --
      Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
  53. We need a plague by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's just too many people with nothing to do.

    1. Re:We need a plague by maxume · · Score: 1

      Indeed, they are a plague.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  54. this is so funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    were i work half the fiber is documented by a outside source to prevent this kind of problem lol...

  55. dot dot dot dash dash dash by epine · · Score: 1

    Believe it or not, the time domain reflectometer is real technology, and not particularly new either.

    This from a five-digit palindromic slashdot ID. God rest my soul.

    William Thompson (class instance Lord Kelvin) had his way with the telegrapher's equations in 1850 when the lack of a plastics industry proved to be a huge threat to the first trans-Atlantic cable. Notorious dullard that he was, he can't possibly have noticed, either in his equations or in real life, signal reflections originating from impedance discontinuities. Not doubt he thought his needle was possessed by nervous daemons.

    While I was quickly checking my dates, I came across this humorous early expression of the BBQ assembly gene:

    http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/cable.htm

    The Anglo-American Atlantic Telegraph Company was formed in 1856 with money from Cyrus Field and technical expertise from Britain. The cable was projected to extend from Valentia Bay in Ireland to Trinity Bay in Newfoundland, 3039 km, in depths of 1700-2400 fathoms, which was by far the most ambitious project yet attempted. The project was rushed to completion in 1857, but the first attempt in that year quickly failed. The two companies independently manufacturing halves of the cable managed to spiral the armor in opposite directions, which caused splicing difficulties.

    Picture the 3200 ton HMS Agamemnon and the 5000 ton USS Niagara engaged in a stern exchange at the moment of truth. If the Americans handed the semaphore flags to an Italian crew member, they probably got the better of the exchange. It takes half a cup of tea to text back FU2 in Morse code with the shutter contraption. Your average hot-blooded Italian can compress the Sodomites Compendium into three gestures.

    Comments elicited by the great blackout of August 2003 brought up the speed of electrons, the average slashdotter's knowledge extending to the existence of electrons as carrying electrical energy but not much further.

    1. Re:dot dot dot dash dash dash by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This from a five-digit palindromic slashdot ID. God rest my soul.

      The worst part is that I was reading for a while before I decided to register a user account, as I didn't see the point.

      If only I'd known then what I know now...

    2. Re:dot dot dot dash dash dash by nido · · Score: 1

      The worst part is that I was reading for a while before I decided to register a user account, as I didn't see the point.

      Five digit palindromes are much better than four, three or two digit ones. I think you did pretty well.

      --
      Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
      www.teslabox.com
    3. Re:dot dot dot dash dash dash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The worst part is that I was reading for a while before I decided to register a user account, as I didn't see the point.

      I still don't see the point of registering an account.

    4. Re:dot dot dot dash dash dash by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 1

      Re:dot dot dot dash dash dash (Score:3, Interesting)

      Come on, is it really?

  56. Reward has been posted by c0y · · Score: 3, Informative
  57. Re:You know, like I've heard a lot of old timers s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could one day we just learn to deal with the 1000ms latency times of a completely satellite-based network?

    (Yes, I know it's not flawless, but it would prevent a lot of things like this happening.)

    Satellite is a good idea, but wouldn't airplanes get all tangled up in the fiber going up to the satellites?

  58. Uhhh... not funny at all.. Not a union sabotage... by cloudance · · Score: 1

    And I bet not random vandalism either. Come on... think. (all of the following was from local news sources)

    Union or disgruntled ATT person? No... ALL fibers were cut in the manholes, and they were clearly labeled for each carrier affected: ATT, Verizon, Sprint, AboveNet, Nextel,

    Random Vandalism? Done in two places: South San Jose and Redwood City, and Redwood City's lines were cut multiple times in several different manholes.

    They also knew enough to cut Fiber rather than the Copper lines... no copper was cut, even though all of the manholes carried labeled copper as well. This tells me that it was not random vandalism either or a mistake by copper stealing persons.

    This tells me that it was intentional... by someone. I'm also NOT a tin-hat believer in conspiracy theories, but this could easily be a quick test by a terrorism group to see how effective it would be, test emergency resources, and see how long it would take to fix it.

    As others here have said... it's not all that difficult to get into the underground lockers and conduits. Hell... most are marked pretty clearly on the manholes what's down there (sewer, steam, storm-drain, communications)

    Again, I'm not an alarmist or a conspiracy-theorist, but if you add this to the hacking of the national electrical grid a few days ago. Think of what could be done with a dozen or so people in each of a few key urban areas (say... 10 or so around the country) all at once, coordinate that with hacking the grid and/or other things. Oh... then add in Conficker or something worse that we don't yet know is there on a bunch of kiosks and/or infrastructure. Heh... there are what... 6 en-route ATC centers across the US, and they all use phone for coordinating between themselves and local ATC centers. Even with fallback procedures it could cause a short-term mess.

    Well.. it makes me think. Not enough to stock up on survival supplies... but it makes me think.

  59. It's that network admin on a rampage! by macraig · · Score: 1

    Yeah, that's it, it's that network admin the city fired with prejudice and is now suing for refusing to give passwords to people who didn't have rights to them. He's gonna make 'em pay even before his day in court!

  60. Re:these weasels always get to walk in a year or t by Akita24 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Look at the bright side. If some mp3's fell out of the tubes they can nail the perps for the truly heinous crime of pirating music. Isn't that an automatic death sentence now?

  61. I'm just SO remote by professorguy · · Score: 1

    So remote the telco would lose money on connecting you? Well, that is SO VERY remote. It's so remote, 50% of the population lives there. Yeah, real fucking remote.

    1. Re:I'm just SO remote by vrmlguy · · Score: 1

      I used to work for a mining company. A lot of mines are in remote locations, like Arizona or Wyoming. We'd regularly install a PBX in our office that handled more lines than the local telco's switch, and then we'd connect to said telco over barbed wire fences. Literally. Digging trenches disturbed the land, so we'd use posts that were designed for electric fencing to isolate the individual strands, and run barbed wire because it was the only thing that grazing ungulates wouldn't eventually lean against.

      --
      Nothing for 6-digit uids?
  62. Aftermath by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The saboteur went home, tried to go on facebook, but his Internet was down. So he shot his wife and kids to avenge this cruel situation.

  63. Retribution? by tgrigsby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Could it be retribution for the fact that AT&T got away with aiding the federal government with the warrantless wiretapping program that violated the Fourth Amendment and which the Obama administration seems determined to protect, continue, and maybe even extend?

    No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm a conspiracy factualist. There is a difference...

    --
    *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
    1. Re:Retribution? by cloudance · · Score: 1

      Solid point... there is a difference between the conspiracy theorists and factualists. Funny though that the factualists always promote their ideas as theory (Could it be... ...?) vs. the theorists who always promote their ideas as fact.

    2. Re:Retribution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could it be retribution for the fact that AT&T got away with aiding the federal government with the warrantless wiretapping program that violated the Fourth Amendment and which the Obama administration seems determined to protect, continue, and maybe even extend?

      No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm a conspiracy factualist. There is a difference...

      Cutting 2 fibers and causing this outage is an act of terrorism. I hope the guys who did this are not only caught, but that they are locked away for the rest of their lives

    3. Re:Retribution? by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      Or could it be a cover for intelligence agency cable splices elsewhere? Since we know that US agencies have virtual carte blanche to tap backbones but use covert splicing for lines outside the US, these cuts could cover a technically resourceful entity such as China, Russia or Israel putting in taps here in the US. I doubt it's Israel, though, since I gather they already have about as much access to US telcom as they want.

      Or, to get more creative, perhaps some industrial espionage organization did it. I can think of some tech billionaires who seem to live as if trying out for Bond villain roles who might find such a spy caper stimulating and profitable.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
  64. Likely perp: telecom insider, Motive: layoff/labor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As much as I hate to cite it, this stuff has "security through obscurity". The only people who would know which man-hole to pop and then which cable bundles to track down and cut are in order of probability of having the knowledge and skills to do the job:

    1. Telecom insiders - 80% chance
    2. The government agent/employee - 50% chance
    3. US-born (a la Timothy McVey) - 10% chance
    4. An Islamic Terrorist - 5% chance
    5. Average Eco-Terrorist - 2% chance
    6. An Average Joe - 1%

  65. The Arpanet was supposed to survive nukes. by EWAdams · · Score: 1

    At least, that was the point of the DOD funding. There was supposed to be massive redundancy so the data just got routed around any breaks. I myself have multiple ways of accessing the 'Net -- cable modem, land-line telephony, and wireless telephony.

    How did we get to the point where an idiot with a backhoe can bring down Silicon Valley itself?!

    --
    I piss off bigots.
    1. Re:The Arpanet was supposed to survive nukes. by Schemat1c · · Score: 1

      The Arpanet was supposed to survive nukes.

      Nope.

      --

      "Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
    2. Re:The Arpanet was supposed to survive nukes. by ScottKin · · Score: 3, Informative

      Blame the Tier-1 & Tier-2 backbone providers and telcos for skimping on SONET implementations; UPSRs (Unidirectional, Path-Switched Rings) do not have the line-fault switching capabilities that a BLSR (Bi-directional, Line-Switched Ring) because of the single-direction design of a UPSR. Since UPSR networks are cheaper (1/2 the fiber-lay costs) than BLSR, many large telcos and backbone providers play fast and loose with fiber capacity and provisioning...which, in this case, apparently came back to bite them.

      The original ARPANet, as it was designed at that time in history, *was* redundant and met the needs for the spec. The ARPANet / NSFNet is as distant from today's Internet as a Blue Whale is from granite.

      During "The Great Internet Build-out" of the late 90's, outages similar to this were more common than what you have been led to believe; the reason why people heard virtually nothing about those outages was because (a such outages weren't "visible" to those outside of the telco industry, and there wasn't such a demand 10 years ago for such high capacity circuits, and (b circuits were more carefully planned-out and used BLSR as much as possible. Now, where stockholders go crazy if their investment in a given telco doesn't grow by 10%, those telcos scrimp and cut corners wherever they can - including running SONET networks with inherently unsafe ring topologies.

      For more about the differences in SONET topologies, please visit:
      http://www.hill2dot0.com/wiki/index.php?title=2F-BLSR

      --ScottKin

      --
      I don't give a rat's behind about "karma" here or anywhere else. Don't like what I have to say here? Deal with it!
    3. Re:The Arpanet was supposed to survive nukes. by 1310nm · · Score: 1

      Not true, 2-fiber BLSR has just as many fibers in use as a UPSR, and there is no advantage to either one. In a UPSR (let's say OC48), there are 48 STS1 channels available on both the inner and outer rings. The terminating nodes determine which side of the ring to grab a signal from. Channels can be selected from one or both sides of the ring simultaneously.

      In a 2-fiber BLSR, you only have the ability to switch the entire OC48 line, but you can run "extra traffic" in the protect channels. Generally half the working channels are normally running in one direction, half the other. During a line switch, only the working channels are run along the active line. Extra traffic is squelched for the duration of the switch.

      In a 4-fiber BLSR, you gain the ability to span switch between 2 nodes rather than having to switch the entire ring, but ring switching is available if both your spans between nodes fail. You can also run extra traffic on them.

      The latest trend in optical networking is G.709. Most of the time different types of SONET or Ethernet payloads are encapsulated in a G.709 wrapper for transmission across the network. These are generally 1+1 unidirectionally switched.

  66. at&t by zip-a-dee-ay · · Score: 1

    http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg16843.html has the email archives of the North American Network Operators Group. One comment: That AT&T has stopped provisioning protection fiber for automatic restoral is mind boggling. That our crack (or on crack) govt contracting/emergency-preparedness staff didn't demand protected facilities for 911 is another mind boggling issue. That there is no over-under wide-area back-up coverage for the cellular canopy ... We posture and orate about being prepared for terrorist attacks and natural disasters, and then events like these reveal the reality: The emperor has no clothes.

    1. Re:at&t by zip-a-dee-ay · · Score: 1

      http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg16816.html: Service to South Santa Clara county [and northern Santa Cruz county] is completely down: Internet,
      landline, and cellphones. Both Verizon and AT&T are affected. 911 is also down. My cellphones show one or no bars. Normally they are all four bars.

      The idea that all of that is lumped in one fiber bundle is mind boggling.

      [apparently verizon was leasing bandwidth on the at&t fiber. ETA for repair sometime between 8 pm and midnight tonight.]

    2. Re:at&t by myspace-cn · · Score: 1

      YEah and the good frequencies to warn the people are now making nice profits for FCC insiders and corruption.
      When's the last time bars and tone from the Emergency Broadcast System had anything valuable to say?
      If a real terrorist attack does happen, your HAM/CB radio will be more valuable than your TV, Phone or AM/FM radio. You can blame that on the FCC appointee.

  67. Re:Why our infrastructure is vulnerable: Unions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yay, unions. "Hey, kids. Got a beef with your employer? Why not attack the underpinnings of modern civilization? Join the Communications Workers of America, and get back at the MAN."

  68. Re:Uhhh... not funny at all.. Not a union sabotage by myspace-cn · · Score: 1

    Actually, you don't know who did it.

    The same argument you give that it might be a "terrorist test" could very well be a "CIA TEST."

    Since we no longer control our government, (can't get our vote counted, and the constitution shredded) we can't get past the state secrets and so we will never know, yet the only thing you can be sure of is some how this will be used to take more civil rights away from people and continue the propaganda and fear of an invisible enemy--the terrorists.

    There's a lot of people pissed of a the phone companies. There has been for years. I remember back in the 70's, "Ma Bell is a Cheap Motherfucker" Now Ma Bell is a spying motherfucker, Ma Bell is a data capping motherfucker. To simply call everything terrorism, when in fact you don't know what the fuck happened.

    I want my Constitution and Bill of Rights back, not this fucking symbolic shit we currently have. It won't be restored as long as this "crap fear mongering terrorist propaganda bullshit" comes out every time.

    What has the fucking level changed from yellow to red? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_Security_Advisory_System
    Better breakout with the national guard, fusion centers, fema, and CENTCOM. Better fire up the fascist media and drive more shit stories.

  69. They are unmistakable differences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The very distinct place on the pole where the cable hangs belies what the cable is for.

    It is obvious. You must have never looked at utility lines. Copper is on the top for the power.
    Down the pole we then have phone (which is antique and mostly deprecated) and then, below that, we have the cable and fiber. There may be many different fibers for different companies. Here we have Comcast, RCN and Verizon. Verizon also does the phone.
    The fiber will have 'snow shoes' on it every so often as, unlike copper, it is not easy or trivial to make a splice with fiber. So the extra fiber is wrapped up and put in a bundle which looks like a snow shoe.

    A lot of fiber is dark fiber. During the telecom bubble (the dot comm bubble) there was a lot of fiber hanging as it cost less to hang the fiber than the equity that the fiber represented to the banks that were lending money. So for every mile of fiber that was hung the telecom could borrow more than it cost to hang, and they didn't care if the fiber was ever going to be used.

    Anyone who has the ability to cut the cable, ie is aware of it, has a bucket truck or ladders, is most likely also smart enough to know the difference. Also, the power goes to a transformer where as the fiber goes to a box on the line near a pole. And the fiber goes to a cable that goes to a box on the house, where as the power goes to a power meter and then to a circuit breaker or fuse box (fuse is old school).

    This sounds like union sabotage, really it does.

  70. NSA silver lining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a wonderful opportunity for the repair crews to install new fiber-optic taps during the downtime, either inside the vaults or anywhere upstream of them while the fiber is disconnected. (http://www.pastpeak.com/archives/2006/05/att_whistleblow.htm and many more references.)

    Given the criminal behavior of the NSA to date in laying such taps, which are prohibited by its charter, and given AT&T and other institution's cooperation with such activity, how can we assume that any such network interruption is not occurring as an opportunity to repeat their criminal behavior?

  71. at&t using twitter to post updates on restorat by zip-a-dee-ay · · Score: 2, Informative
  72. Felt it here in Santa Rosa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I lost most all connectivity last night all the way up here in Santa Rosa (~70 miles north of San Fran) and I'm on Comcast!

  73. Like I've heard a lot of old timers say... by symbolset · · Score: 1

    The internet routes around damage.

    Unless of course it's carefully damaged by someone who knows those routes and you can't get there from here.

    Oops.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  74. Re:Your optic fu is strong by symbolset · · Score: 1

    And if you get a zero loss link you can still snap it and try again 'till you get enough leakage for your vampire tap.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  75. Re:Multiple Cuts! by Macrat · · Score: 1

    Local broadcast news is reporting there were 2+ separate cuts in San Jose and up to 7 cuts in San Carlos.

  76. Knock knock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get the door, will ya? Tell 'em we didn't order any pizza.

  77. Re:Uhhh... not funny at all.. Not a union sabotage by cloudance · · Score: 1

    Nope... I don't know who did it... it just made me think. I didn't say it was terrorism, just mentioned that I'd considered it.

    As for the rest of your comment, I'll let it lay where it will.

  78. RE: A Curious Case of Dick Chaney by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dick Cheney is making the rounds to preserve the previous bodily fluids of his most belovid Love-God Penis Symbol George Walker Bush.

    Dick Cheney wants desperately to suck the precious fluids of George Walker Bush.

  79. Current Status from an internal ticket by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Market: San Francisco
    Alert Details: AT&T has cables prepped and splicing has begun. ETR is 1:00am CDT.

  80. Another cut in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    For what's it worth, there was also another fiber cut in Seattle today.

    1. Re:Another cut in Seattle by Bourbonium · · Score: 1

      This is big news. The unreported part in the SF Bay Area is that they've now discovered more fiber cuts in Santa Cruz and Watsonville. Your posting was the first I've heard about any fiber cuts outside of California.

      This definitely sounds like a coordinated effort either among CWA Union activists who know where the fiber runs and how to get access to it, or very organized vandals with inside information in how the network is configured.

  81. Union-type thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The core thinking behind a union is extortion: Pay up, or the agreed-upon exchange of labor for wages won't happen.

  82. internet terrorism takes a new meaning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    terrorizing the internet itself!!

  83. Martian Revenge by tengu1sd · · Score: 1

    Marvin Martian was interviewed and demands that Earth stop sending communication cable cutting drones to Mars. If we continue to disrupt Martian services, the consequences will be worse than than mankind can imagine.

  84. This is indicative of a poorly designed network by chaos99 · · Score: 1

    Doesn't this indicate a serious lack of a reasonable network design on AT&T's part? There are technologies available (SONET rings, etc) which prevent cuts like this from causing outages by setting up redundant paths. I worked as an engineer in telecom for several years, and it was my belief that all the major carriers deployed essentially bulletproof networks, and made good use of the available technology (and this was 12 years ago!). I guess I was wrong!

    1. Re:This is indicative of a poorly designed network by Bourbonium · · Score: 1

      Does this mean Verizon is going to have to stop advertising their service as "America's most reliable wireless network?" If they're leasing lines from AT&T, they are even more vulnerable if those leased lines aren't just redundant backup systems for their own network. This incident is exposing all kinds of "single points of failure" that a well-designed network should not have. What pointy-haired boss approved these plans anyway?

  85. UC Berkeley Astronomy affected by scapermoya · · Score: 1

    I do grunt work research in the ucb astro department, and I overheard some professors in the hall today complaining about these fiber cuts. apparently it affected their ability to download images from the keck telescopes in hawaii.

    --
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch.
  86. Re:Uhhh... not funny at all.. Not a union sabotage by cpghost · · Score: 1

    Heh... there are what... 6 en-route ATC centers across the US, and they all use phone for coordinating between themselves and local ATC centers.

    Funnily though, if they cut the wrong cables, they'd also lose phone connectivity between themselves. It reminds me of NOC administration: you can easily cut the NOC itself out by applying a buggy ACL to its backbone routers. Recovering from this mistake is every NOC's worst nightmare, esp. if the ACL went to a huge number or routers.

    --
    cpghost at Cordula's Web.
  87. Multiple paths in San Fran by DragonHawk · · Score: 1

    "That's no reason not to have a massive multi-path infrastructure within cities."

    I saw someone on NANOG saying these cuts were in a narrow geographical corridor. In their words, "your paths are 'one side of the tracks' and 'the other side of the tracks'". Dunno if they're correct or full of it.

    --

    dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
    I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
  88. Write much? by yt8znu35 · · Score: 1

    "...a AT&T communications workers contract..."? WTF does that mean?

  89. Once again... by petergriffinismyhero · · Score: 1

    ...the Mythbusters crew have escaped blame.

  90. Gotta love telco union workers! by Electric+Eye · · Score: 1

    When I hear that critical lines were cut, I thought to myself "I bet there just happens to be some sort of labor dispute going on with the union guys in California." Sure enough, you guys confirmed it.

    My father worked for Verizon (formerly Bell Atlantic, etc) for roughly 15 years until he recently retired. He was "management." EVERY SINGLE TIME the union guys went out on strike, the vandalism began. There's a lot of political back-scratching going on when this happens and the union is VERY good at protecting these guys from any sort of prosecution. Fortunately, one time, one or two guys were electrocuted in Brooklyn (or maybe it was Staten Island) the last time around. They were climbing a pole attempting to cut lines. They successfully sabotaged lines in Fairfield County back in 98 or 99. They set fires in buildings, flooded tunnels containing copper and fiber lines, attack managers physically or damage their cars while they are working and these guys are "picketing." Disgusting behavior.

    Union workers are a pathetic bunch. Very petty, very childish, very ignorant and are often despicable. You cut phone lines that people rely on for 911 services because you want a f***ing pay raise??? I hope one day a family member of a union telco worker dies due to an intentionally cut line. Maybe they will learn. but I doubt it.

    1. Re:Gotta love telco union workers! by Bourbonium · · Score: 1

      While I don't wish anyone harm, I do have to agree with you about union activist vandalism. My wife worked for over 10 years as a nurse manager for a large hospital group with multiple campuses, and the SEIU union (now split into two factions, SEIU and HCW) staged labor actions EVERY SINGLE YEAR, even when they HAD a valid contract in place. One time, they visited the houses of nurses who had confirmed to management that they were going to cross the picket lines to report to work and slashed the tires of their cars on the first day of the walkout to make sure they couldn't get to the hospital.

      Another time, they set fire to a trash dumpster between two hospital buildings, forcing an entire nursing wing to be evacuated and the patients, some in critical condition, had to be relocated to other areas. And of course, the place was being staffed by expensive travelling nurses, who were just getting oriented to the hospital and its layout since the regular staff were either on the picket lines or otherwise unable to report to work (their tires were slashed, or they received threatening phone calls by union activists, etc.)

      They staged daily press conferences with the TV/radio/print media shouting about how they were doing this to protect the rights of the hospital's patients ("Patients before Profits" was their slogan, even though the hospital group is a not-for-profit corporation). In fact, their vandalism did more to endanger the lives of patients than to protect their interests. To be fair, the nurses were generally not involved in these actions. These things are usually done by professional union activists, who have no other jobs except to enforce the orders of the union bosses.

      From the early part of the last century, Unions have been run by gangsters, and they use gangster tactics to get what they want from management. The Teamsters were formed by gangsters after the repeal of prohibition to control the liquor market by controlling the trucking and distribution of distilled spirits. And the Teamsters are the most powerful union. Most of the other unions (SEIU included), take their marching orders from the gangsters who run the Teamsters.

    2. Re:Gotta love telco union workers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Telco management is the lowest form of management. Scott Adams got the pointy-haired boss material mostly from Pac Bell where he worked in ISDN in the late 80s - early 90s. These telco managers are utterly corrupt and idiotic herd-beasts. No sympathy from me if they get some pushback in negotiations, but most places they fuck things up unhindered by any resistance from the untermenchen. Maybe in New York you have the thug thing going on, but that's because New Yorkers are so often thugs, not because of anything to do with the communication workers union in general. Most places in the US there hasn't been a CWA strike in decades. So I'll take your criticism as being of New Yorkers, which pretty much fits all I've observed of that heaving, loathsome mass of villainous yobbos.

  91. Re:Uhhh... not funny at all.. Not a union sabotage by Electric+Eye · · Score: 1

    Sorry. You are dead wrong. This is a classic move by union telco members when there is a contract dispute. It's way too coincidental this was done (in two places) just when their most recent contracts expired. CLASSIC telco sabotage.

  92. T-Shirt by Das+Auge · · Score: 1

    I'm putting this on a t-shirt!

  93. Re:Uhhh... not funny at all.. Not a union sabotage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of our sites were back up by 11:00 p.m. last night, but the latest update from our techs indicate that they found even more fiber cuts in other areas (Watsonville, Santa Cruz, etc.). The media reports I've seen have only mentioned the two San Carlos and San Jose cuts. This is news I just got through internal email. I'll be an anoymous coward to post this, as I don't need the FBI coming to my office to question me.

    Sounds to me like an inside job. Who else would know where the fiber runs in Watsonville and Santa Cruz? And someone hit all of these manholes in a matter of three or four hours in the very early morning. A lone vandal might have driven between all these sites during that period, but it would be easier if two or three people were involved. That's a consipracy.

  94. Likely perp: electronic medical records protester by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    w/o any paper records to fall back on and a broken telephone/internet infrastructure, going to the hospital will be a crapshoot if all medical records are electronic only...

    (as long as we are engaging in idle speculation ;^)

    Yes whoever did this deserves the death penalty (or a one way ticket to Juarez, Mexico)...

  95. Personal Experience by rea1l1 · · Score: 0

    I was in Santa Cruz at the time this occurred. All data systems including the credit card system, cell phone network and all land lines (incl calling down the street) were unusable.

    I heard through the grape vine that it was quite likely an AT&T employee that cut the cable in 4 different places. AT&T is attempting to seriously lower benefits and wages for all of its employees, in this area at least.

    At the time I thought the feds had just cut communications nationwide and were beginning the hostile gun collection sweep and check point set up! Another day I suppose.

    I'm having a hard time to think to such a thing could so easily happen. Isn't there any line redundancy? Why don't we have fiber running along the side of every highway?