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Altered Organism Triples Solar Cell Efficiency

An anonymous reader writes "By harnessing the shells of living organisms in the sea, microscopic algae called diatoms, engineers have tripled the efficiency of experimental dye-sensitized solar cells. The diatoms were fed a diet of titanium dioxide, the main ingredient for thin film solar cells, instead of their usual meal which is silica (silicon dioxide). As a result, their shells became photovoltaic when coated with dyes. The result is a thin-film dye-sensitized solar cell that is three times more efficient than those without the diatoms."

158 comments

  1. When can I buy them? by wheeda · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Neat. When can I buy them for my house?

    1. Re:When can I buy them? by BikeHelmet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You don't have to buy them. You can get titanium dioxide from donuts and use that to enhance your solar cells.

      Our food really is filled with crap!

    2. Re:When can I buy them? by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Well, the basic concept of using nanoscale structures to improve solar cells is well known, so I'd assume that using diatoms to self-assemble such a thing would be a step in the process of turning "wow neat this works in the lab" into "solar cells, X dollars 99 per meter".

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  2. Just had to ask... by hyades1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    So does this mean we now have to call them dye-atoms?

    Don't bother throwing things...I've already taken cover.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    1. Re:Just had to ask... by poetmatt · · Score: 2, Funny

      This sounds like a good passover joke. If they had dyed the atoms, it would have been good enough for us.
      dye-atom!

    2. Re:Just had to ask... by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's too bad they used Titanium instead of Lithium. We could have had DyeLithium Crystal solar power

    3. Re:Just had to ask... by SEAL · · Score: 1

      Yeah but since it's triple the output, you could call it Tritanium.

    4. Re:Just had to ask... by hawk · · Score: 1

      >So does this mean we now have to call them dye-atoms?

      No, but PETA is already preparing to complain about people who string too many together, cooking them with their own over-voltage condition, while screaming, "Die, atom!" :)

      hawk

    5. Re:Just had to ask... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, your perfectly correct Trek reference remained unobserved. How sad.

  3. 120% efficiency! by Two9A · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So, with the "breakthrough" a few months ago that three different dyes in a cell could capture 40% of light from the sun, does that make this more efficient than coal?

    Could the ecomentalists finally have something to cheer about?!

    --
    xkcdsw: the unofficial archive of Making xkcd Slightly Worse
    1. Re:120% efficiency! by Jurily · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So, with the "breakthrough" a few months ago that three different dyes in a cell could capture 40% of light from the sun, does that make this more efficient than coal?

      Well, it doesn't take millions of years to make more when we run out.

    2. Re:120% efficiency! by MaxwellEdison · · Score: 4, Funny

      How long does it take to make a new sun? I mean...it will run out eventually...

      --
      -=Bang Bang=-
    3. Re:120% efficiency! by Red+Flayer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So, with the "breakthrough" a few months ago that three different dyes in a cell could capture 40% of light from the sun, does that make this more efficient than coal?

      From an energy standpoint, direct solar has ALWAYS been more efficient than coal. How much sunlight do you think was needed to create the coal we burn? How much energy do we use to extract and refine it (when necessary)?

      More cost-effective? That's a different matter, and impossible to calculate since we can't even properly measure the true costs of burning coal for electricity.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    4. Re:120% efficiency! by linzeal · · Score: 1

      You gather the requisite ~290k Earth's mass of Hydrogen and than we will talk.

    5. Re:120% efficiency! by Nutria · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Well, it doesn't take millions of years to make more when we run out.

      I guess you were busy "Go Green! Hate Bush!" posters on the day in Science class where they mentioned you can't get more than 100% efficiency.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    6. Re:120% efficiency! by geekoid · · Score: 4, Funny

      I got er. I just keep them loose all over the place, help yourself.

      free range Hydrogen

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:120% efficiency! by WCguru42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How long does it take to make a new sun? I mean...it will run out eventually...

      When the Sun runs out it won't matter how much coal we have, (or any other energy source) unless we've used it to ship out far, far away from this solar system. Nothing is truly indefinite so your argument is mostly pointless.

      --
      "Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
    8. Re:120% efficiency! by Nutria · · Score: 1

      More cost-effective?

      Tied to that is practicality: you don't get much solar energy at night or during snow or dust storms.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    9. Re:120% efficiency! by MaxwellEdison · · Score: 4, Funny

      It wasn't even an argument...I was being wholly pointless. Jeez, a new "super efficient solar cell of the month" story comes around and everyone puckers their sphincters like they're about to be exposed to the vacuum of space...

      --
      -=Bang Bang=-
    10. Re:120% efficiency! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      ..you don't get much solar energy at night...

      Solution: Flip the panels over and dig a deep, deep hole..

    11. Re:120% efficiency! by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, we need to build an energy storage infrastructure... and factor the cost in.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    12. Re:120% efficiency! by x2A · · Score: 1

      fantastic :-)

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    13. Re:120% efficiency! by entgod · · Score: 1

      Wait, it wasn't a joke?

    14. Re:120% efficiency! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Modern coal-fired power plants are at about 30-35% efficiency on average.

      In any case, comparing the efficiency of two totally different kinds of energy sources is not necessarily useful for determining which is the better choice. There are also economic (cost of production) and environmental (real cost of GHG emissions, regardless of any state carbon pricing plan) metrics that need to be applied.

      The parent commenter should probably notice that it was the OP (pro-coal?) commenter who made the original (sarcastic) 120% claim. The rest of us here clearly understand physics.

    15. Re:120% efficiency! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      If the teacher was using Bush's "faith based" standards, then the students would never have been told about the 100% limit on efficiency.

    16. Re:120% efficiency! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, if you clean the panels off afterward, you might get more energy after a snow storm as more light is reflected back from the ground at the panels.

    17. Re:120% efficiency! by epine · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How much sunlight do you think was needed to create the coal we burn?

      The accrued savings from a raging fusion inferno a million times the mass of the earth whose wispy out layer glowed incandescent for four billion years will be pretty much wiped out by about 200 years of human activity.

      More cost-effective? That's a different matter, and impossible to calculate since we can't even properly measure the true costs of burning coal for electricity.

      Is there where the multi-tasking generation leads us? This has the trappings of someone who actually boarded the bus toward useful cognition, then at the first sign the going was less than 100% straight forward, decided to check out the latest Android killer. The next morning the incomplete thought was picked up off the bedroom floor and tossed into the hatbox beside the front door labelled "father knows best" (just as soon as he unjams his slide rule of universal valuation).

      Human society never returns to exactly the same state. We can't actually measure the true cost of anything without making abstractions about myriads of future differences having some kind of linear relationship to present conditions, briefly shared by a fleeting census coalition. The duration of the consensus condition is inversely proportional to the number of people consulted.

      This whole thing works a lot better for renewable resources than what we term "non-renewable", which actually means a resource whose replenishment cycle is like watching paint dry in bullet time. Everything in life is relative to our boredom threshold. It's the only metric humans widely agree on.

      It also denominates our discussion threads. On a logarithmic scale from 1 to 10, your comment betrays a boredom factor of about 3. The threshold for useful engagement in the multidimensional value space associated with our environmental choices is somewhere around six. Six earns you a seat at the table of meaningful errors.

      It will be interesting to see what a generation of multitaskers is able to accomplish on deep challenges. Who knows, it could work.

    18. Re:120% efficiency! by Jurily · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nothing is truly indefinite

      Heisenberg begs to differ.

    19. Re:120% efficiency! by aliquis · · Score: 1

      120% isn't relative coal, it's relative the sun lights energy. And it would probably be cost effective yes. But 120% would be impossible.

    20. Re:120% efficiency! by aliquis · · Score: 1

      When the Sun runs out it won't matter how much coal we have, (or any other energy source) unless we've used it to ship out far, far away from this solar system. Nothing is truly indefinite so your argument is mostly pointless

      Except Chuck Norris... and blendtec blenders.

    21. Re:120% efficiency! by Kiuas · · Score: 1

      When the Sun runs out it won't matter how much coal we have, (or any other energy source) unless we've used it to ship out far, far away from this solar system. Nothing is truly indefinite so your argument is mostly pointless.

      WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!

      --
      "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
    22. Re:120% efficiency! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love when Heisenberg begs. Although, I can never be certain that he's serious...

    23. Re:120% efficiency! by crispytwo · · Score: 1

      move

    24. Re:120% efficiency! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the plants, etc. on earth, which provides ALL of your oxygen and energy(in the form of glucose, etc.) will die when the sun dies...good luck trying to live without the sun.

      I think we should bring back sun-worshipping cults. The Ancient Egyptians were on to something there, etc. :-)

    25. Re:120% efficiency! by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      I'd frankly be shocked if we were still around as a species at that point. At least, if we were, I sort of doubt we'd really look like we do now. Probably not even think. That's so very, very far off. That's further off than the origin of life on earth. That's frankly an incomprehensible amount of change to life on earth that may occur between now and then, to the point where any speculation isn't worth the oxygen used to imagine it. Nothing we can possibly think will come close to the realities of that future.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    26. Re:120% efficiency! by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Does Heisenberg actually define it as indefinite or simply unknowable.

      Something can be definite and unknowable. It's entirely possible for instance that an electron actually does have a definite position but be unknowable.... we just don't know.

    27. Re:120% efficiency! by Jurily · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      RTFW:

      In quantum physics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle states that certain physical quantities, like position and momentum, cannot both have precise values at the same time.

    28. Re:120% efficiency! by Jurily · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How long does it take to make a new sun? I mean...it will run out eventually...

      Let there be light.

    29. Re:120% efficiency! by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Simple, we mine the sun for coal once it cools off. We then use the hydrogen we get from burning that coal in the little widget I bought on the internet for my car, and turn it all into hydrogen, then BAM! Problem solved.

    30. Re:120% efficiency! by pmarini · · Score: 1

      you are implying that humankind will still "rule" this planet at that point...
      what's the bacterial equivalent of travelling to another celestial body? :-)

      --
      Can I put a spell on those who can't spell?
      Your wheels are loose and they're losing their grip, good you're there.
    31. Re:120% efficiency! by pmarini · · Score: 1

      I know that you're trolling, user 679911, because many of my colleagues get a big bonus for overperforming, and because the 100m world record keeps going down 20ms each year :-)
      everything is relative, absolutism is a human convention...

      --
      Can I put a spell on those who can't spell?
      Your wheels are loose and they're losing their grip, good you're there.
    32. Re:120% efficiency! by pmarini · · Score: 1

      and there I thought that the Earth was flat... luckily there are people who believe that instead it's spherical and that electrical power can be transmitted over long distance, as required...

      --
      Can I put a spell on those who can't spell?
      Your wheels are loose and they're losing their grip, good you're there.
    33. Re:120% efficiency! by pmarini · · Score: 0

      then, if we have any loss or any toxic storage, can we bail it out?

      --
      Can I put a spell on those who can't spell?
      Your wheels are loose and they're losing their grip, good you're there.
    34. Re:120% efficiency! by wealthychef · · Score: 1

      It's amazing, I thought Heisenberg says you cannot KNOW both values at the same time. Is it true that the precise values don't even EXIST simultaneously?

      --
      Currently hooked on AMP
    35. Re:120% efficiency! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can it have more than 100% efficiency? It generates more power than it is possible to harvest?

    36. Re:120% efficiency! by wealthychef · · Score: 1
      what's the bacterial equivalent of travelling to another celestial body?

      When Christina Aguilera gives Jessica Alba an infection.

      --
      Currently hooked on AMP
    37. Re:120% efficiency! by HiThere · · Score: 1

      It's not pointless. It's a genuine problem. It's just one that won't get here for a very long time. So other, more immediate, things are more significant...in the short term.

      It's probably really too early to give it much attention, or to try to solve it...but it is a genuine problem.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  4. Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by Khyber · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From toothpaste to DE Filters to solar cells.

    I love nature - if mankind paid more attention to it we'd be so much more advanced than we are currently.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by esocid · · Score: 1

      they're also that shiny reflective stuff on road signs

      --
      Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
    2. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by Nutria · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I love nature - if mankind paid more attention to it

      Mankind is of and surrounded by "nature". We can't we can't do anything *but* pay attention to nature.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    3. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by Vectronic · · Score: 1

      Mankind is the reflective stuff on road signs? Is that why they are red, or what they mean by sacrificing one, to save a thousand?

    4. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

      Indeed. So many of the useful things we now enjoy were based on either observing the natural world, or using things from pretty much directly (many medecines). It's distressing that we are destroying so many natural habitats, and associated species, that could some day be really helpful.

      As yeah, they're often interesting and pretty, too...

    5. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by x2A · · Score: 1

      Pay more attention to nature?! You should try google fighting it before making those kinds of statements.

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    6. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pay lots of attention to nature. I have plenty of latina women nature walking around me and I pay lots of attention to their natural assets, on the hope we can engage on a natural process like reproduction...

    7. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by gbear711 · · Score: 1

      What they can't do nanotubes will.

    8. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by idontgno · · Score: 1

      Mankind is the reflective stuff on road signs?

      Yes. Soylent Red steet signs are PEOPLE!

      So are Soylent Yellow lane dividing stripes.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    9. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by corbettw · · Score: 1

      if mankind paid more attention to it we'd be so much more advanced than we are currently.

      citation needed

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    10. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      From toothpaste to DE Filters to solar cells.

      They can also apperantly clean up red tides

      http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/118946.php

    11. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by b4upoo · · Score: 1

      Only if it produces lobster or King crabs.

    12. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by bensafrickingenius · · Score: 1

      They also produce around 1/3 of the world's oxygen supply. That doesn't make your list? sheesh.

      --
      I am not left-handed, either!
    13. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Hmmm lets see here, a dam built by a beaver for a beavers purposes is nature, a dam built by man for man's purposes isn't?

    14. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by Nutria · · Score: 1

      Hmmm lets see here, a dam built by a beaver for a beavers purposes is nature, a dam built by man for man's purposes isn't?

      Yes, according to environmentalist fools.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    15. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

      Sometimes it is a good idea to build a dam, sometimes it is a bad idea. The Hoover dam seems to have been a pretty good idea; the Kariba dam seems like a pretty bad one. Whether it is a good idea or a bad idea depends on who is doing the calculating and the weights given to different features. I don't think that the Chinese government thought that moving millions of people for the Three Gorges dam deserved much weight; but I'm guessing that the people who were moved have different opinions. But, in general, normal people separate out what humans do from 'nature'. I can't look at the Three Gorges dam and call it 'nature'.

      --
      The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
    16. Re:Diatoms, what cnan't they do? by Nutria · · Score: 1

      the Kariba dam seems like a pretty bad one.

      Building the Hoover Dam out in the middle of a desert sure did eliminate the possibility of 'development refugees'.

      Your comments raise three thoughts in my mind:

      1. Why are the Tonga so passive? Instead of remaining in the poor areas they were resettled to, why not pick up and move somewhere else, like to the cities? (For that matter, why do the Palestinians still live in refugee camps, instead of finding some place better to live?)
      2. It sucks to be African.
      3. Some regions of this world are way too populated.
      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
  5. Wait till PETA hears about this! by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 2, Funny

    Nasty humans exploiting those defenseless unicellular creatures!

    1. Re:Wait till PETA hears about this! by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nasty humans exploiting those defenseless unicellular creatures!

      We'll call them Sea Puppies! Because who would want to hurt a sea puppy?!
       
      /In case you don't get the joke

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Wait till PETA hears about this! by marco.antonio.costa · · Score: 1

      Worse. They're making them eat titanium.

      If that's not torture, I don't know what is. :D

      --
      Send your spendthrift head of state this
    3. Re:Wait till PETA hears about this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PETA. A strange organization...

      Do terrible things to defenseless animals and you are rewarded with naked women delivered right to your door, free of charge.

    4. Re:Wait till PETA hears about this! by Vegeta99 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh dear lord. I don't call that a joke, I call that horrendous. The fact that the website seems to be targeting children gives me chills. If my son or daughter was suddenly upset with my fishing and hunting habit because PETA told her its mean to kill "sea kittens", I'm gonna be marching down to headquarters in my camouflage to take care of the problem MY way.

      Fucking PETA. I'm going to eat a creek kitten right now. A trout. And, by the way, PETA, I paid $30 to be licensed to actually catch that trout, and I have a limit to how many I can take daily. The money I paid for that license is used to A. Figure out just how many fish I can catch without too much of an impact on the ecosystem, and B. hatch me new trout for every season.

      And I'm gonna wash down my creek kitten meal with some milk. I'll do my best to make sure the milk comes from a cow whose offspring went to the veal factory, and for dessert I'm going to have bear-liver pate spread on bread made with yeast that were genetically engineered to feel the pain of being baked at 350F.

    5. Re:Wait till PETA hears about this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PETA are rather akin to a religious group.

    6. Re:Wait till PETA hears about this! by aliquis · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yeah, we get it, you're so fucking cool.

    7. Re:Wait till PETA hears about this! by abuelos84 · · Score: 0

      <quote><p> spread on bread made with yeast that were genetically engineered to feel the pain of being baked at 350F.</p></quote>

      THAT made my day/night.
      Thank you, sir.

      --
      -- Counting backwards since 1984!
    8. Re:Wait till PETA hears about this! by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Oh dear lord. I don't call that a joke, I call that horrendous. The fact that the website seems to be targeting children gives me chills. If my son or daughter was suddenly upset with my fishing and hunting habit because PETA told her its mean to kill "sea kittens", I'm gonna be marching down to headquarters in my camouflage to take care of the problem MY way.

      Fucking PETA. I'm going to eat a creek kitten right now. A trout. And, by the way, PETA, I paid $30 to be licensed to actually catch that trout, and I have a limit to how many I can take daily. The money I paid for that license is used to A. Figure out just how many fish I can catch without too much of an impact on the ecosystem, and B. hatch me new trout for every season.

      And I'm gonna wash down my creek kitten meal with some milk. I'll do my best to make sure the milk comes from a cow whose offspring went to the veal factory, and for dessert I'm going to have bear-liver pate spread on bread made with yeast that were genetically engineered to feel the pain of being baked at 350F.

      I think Dennis Leary says it best (starts at approx. 6:20 in, although the whole thing is great).

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  6. OK... by Rollgunner · · Score: 4, Funny

    Diatoms that generate electricity... great! Who's in charge of soldering the leads to them so we can harness it ?

  7. an industrial waste angle. by bombastinator · · Score: 5, Interesting

    titanium dioxide is the main pigment base in modern (but not pre-70's) white paint. While titanium is not a particularly cheap metal, paint chips are something that is actually hard to get rid of. I wonder if they could be fed on waste drywall stripped from homes. that's basically paint, paper, and gypsum.

    1. Re:an industrial waste angle. by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What gets done with that sort of thing currently?

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    2. Re:an industrial waste angle. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      titanium dioxide is the main pigment base in modern (but not pre-70's) white paint. While titanium is not a particularly cheap metal, paint chips are something that is actually hard to get rid of. I wonder if they could be fed on waste drywall stripped from homes. that's basically paint, paper, and gypsum.

      I think that's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure the underlying economics support it. If the efficiency of the new model is only three times more than the old, then presumably we'd need to get titanium dioxide at no more than 3 times the cost of silicon dioxide.

      Silicon dioxide is sand. It's hard to compete with the price of something that is literally dirt cheap.

    3. Re:an industrial waste angle. by maxume · · Score: 3, Informative

      Titanium is expensive because the oxygen needs to be stripped off of the ore; titanium dioxide is far cheaper.

      That doesn't mean that recycling paint is a bad idea, but the cost of titanium isn't going to drive it.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:an industrial waste angle. by turing_m · · Score: 1

      Silicon dioxide is sand. It's hard to compete with the price of something that is literally dirt cheap.

      It's a lot easier if what you are competing with requires silicon dioxide to be melted before it can be used, which in turn requires a lot of energy.

      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    5. Re:an industrial waste angle. by b4upoo · · Score: 1

      Florida has a pot load of homes with Chinese drywall that is a curse from hell. Getting rid of this stuff involves a rework of the entire mansion.

    6. Re:an industrial waste angle. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Silicon dioxide is sand. It's hard to compete with the price of something that is literally dirt cheap.

      Rutile and Leucoxene are two of the primary components of heavy mineral sand (eg. the magnetic black and at some beaches). The other main component of those sands is Ilmenite which is basically a compound of iron oxide and titanium oxide.

      Seems like a good comparison to "dirt cheap" to me.

    7. Re:an industrial waste angle. by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Titanium oxides are also sand - not quite as plentiful as the silicon dioxide but very easy to get from sand by gravity separation. Another poster beat me to it here, but the only reason titanium is expensive is the amount of energy to reduce it to a metal.

    8. Re:an industrial waste angle. by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 1

      Waste sheetrock ('rock' as the home builders call it) goes to landfills currently. At least on the east coast of the US.....

      --
      Huh?
  8. Re:hmm by bFusion · · Score: 1

    I get e-mails like that all day... this isn't news!

  9. Well Duh by sokoban · · Score: 2, Funny

    Of course diatoms are going to make better solar cells. I mean just look at the name, diatom is greek for two atoms. There's twice as many atoms there, so you'd guess they would make at least twice as good solar cells.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
    1. Re:Well Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now tell me about the word, kimono.

    2. Re:Well Duh by schmurry-mooseness · · Score: 1

      The secret that they didn't tell us is that they are using triatoms.

    3. Re:Well Duh by UncleTogie · · Score: 1

      Kim Ono: Yoko's illegitmate love child. Next question?

      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
  10. Re:What will the Libs do? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

    Oh noes, poor diatoms.

    Gimme a break; even the PETA retards aren't that rabid.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  11. Do your hands every get itchy . . . by StefanJ · · Score: 1

    . . . from whacking at straw men?

    1. Re:Do your hands every get itchy . . . by Bryan+Ischo · · Score: 1

      Probably. And my eyes are getting sore from reading so many pointless strawmen on Slashdot. We'd all be alot more comfortable if the retards spewing these strawmen would just keep their inane thoughts to themselves.

    2. Re:Do your hands every get itchy . . . by x2A · · Score: 1

      hehe nothing says "correctness!" like a typo in the subject line...

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
  12. 3 times what? by SupremoMan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Triple efficiency of what? I was only able to find this paragraph that put some numbers.

    Dye-sensitized solar cells are favored as a thin-film material because they work in low-light conditions and are fabricated with environmentally benign materials compared to silicon solar cells. However, silicon cells have more than twice the efficiency, as much as 20 percent compared to less than 10 percent for dye-sensitized solar cells.

    So Are we talking about 3x 20%? One could only wish. I think they mean 3x 10%, so 30% efficency, which is only 50% better than silicon solar cell. I guess that's still a big improvement.

    1. Re:3 times what? by Ragzouken · · Score: 1

      Solar cells are -20% efficient now?

    2. Re:3 times what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      30% is huge. 30% is ~10x as efficient as the cheapest solar cells. This has the potential to be the cheapest process. Of course there is a question about lightfastness of the dye and the life of these materials. It also suggests an organic approach that can self assemble and self repair.

    3. Re:3 times what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      50% of 20% is 10%, so 20%+10% = 30%. You can only add the numbers directly if you say "percentage units". Ie if something is 50 percentage units more than something that is 20%, then it would be 70%.

    4. Re:3 times what? by hort_wort · · Score: 2, Informative

      Another thing I've run into in the past that was a problem: sometimes when people are talking about solar cell efficiency, they switch sensitive wavelengths on you.

      There was a young boy who received high praise for making a solar cell that was "20 times as efficient as comparative cells"... Well, since the other cells were already getting 10% of the output from the sun, and since there was no way the boy could be getting 200% from the sun, it means he just expanded the wavelengths of light the cell was sensitive to. Yippee. So instead of a "Solar PV cell", he ended up with a "Vega PV cell" (or whatever star or light source you want). He made something entirely useless, but still could say it was 20 times more efficient.

      I'm not saying they did that in this case, but it's something to watch for if you're paranoid.

  13. Re: !120% efficiency by End+Program · · Score: 1

    FTFA: However, silicon cells have more than twice the efficiency, as much as 20 percent compared to less than 10 percent for dye-sensitized solar cells.

    Looks more like 30% efficiency to me.

    I don't know why they can't just tell you the percentage up front!

  14. harvesting method? by bugi · · Score: 4, Funny

    Do the diatoms die from shock?

  15. this sounds like a harebrained scheme by circletimessquare · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    someone cooked up while being stoned

    "so we feed the bugs the solar cell stuff man, and they just like use it make better solar cells. whoa"

    and yet it works. amazing

    all hail marijuana science

    next up from stoned science: "dude, did you ever look at your hand, no, i mean really look at it?: curing phantom limb symptoms by really looking at your hand"

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:this sounds like a harebrained scheme by UncleTogie · · Score: 1

      next up from stoned science: "dude, did you ever look at your hand, no, i mean really look at it?: curing phantom limb symptoms by really looking at your hand"

      Y'must be high. If your hand is completely there, you'd not have a problem with it being nonexistent and itchy, would ya?

      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
    2. Re:this sounds like a harebrained scheme by starworks5 · · Score: 1

      HAH, I'm a Portland State student, and a medical marijuana patient. Let me fill you in on something, you can cure phantom limb by looking at your REAL hand while stoned, and placing it in the mirror while pretending its your phantom limb.

      Seriously,

      http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/vilayanur_ramachandran_on_your_mind.html

      I must say for the record, 'all hail marijuana science'.

  16. Lousy Headline by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3, Informative

    Lousy headline here. They haven't tripled the efficiency of the already best solar cells out there, but just some over variant that wasn't so very efficient to start with.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:Lousy Headline by corbettw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In tripling the efficiency of the not-so-good ones, did they bring them within cost parity of the better ones? If the better ones were four times as good and cost four times as much, and now these are three times as good at double the cost, then that's a significant breakthrough.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    2. Re:Lousy Headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not the efficiency that counts so much as the cost, if they can make the total cost less than that of coal, then it will be viable, until then it will require government subsidizing or punishment of coal burning/natural gas burning/whatever burning plants. Or we could just use nuclear like sensible people until science perfects fusion or solar.

    3. Re:Lousy Headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually, it's even better than that.
      This is because they tripled the efficiency of what is currently the cheapest type of solar panels, thin film, which recently via First Solar and via NanoSolar have achieved production prices of $1/W (and are expect to fall towards $0.50/W within the next 5 years), which is equivalent to building new coal, oil, nuke or natural gas plants, ie thin film is already competitive with retail grid electricity prices where they are 10c/kWh.
      Assuming this advance doesn't add dramatically to the cost of the thin films, this would reduce the cost to $0.30/W for panels or 3c/kWh, ie competitive with wholesale grid electricity prices.
      Dropping to $0.30/W by or before 2020 would be in line with the 3X per decade price drops for solar which have been happening since 1958

      - Spiralman

    4. Re:Lousy Headline by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I'm not convinced that nuclear is a good alternative. *Some* nuclear might be a good choice, but so many designs seem to have major hidden costs associated with them that aren't being counted.

      When the builders of the plants don't demand a government subsidy to cover their insurance costs (or relieve them of the necessity for carrying insurance) then I'll consider them seriously. Until then I won't believe that the people building and running the plants believe that they are safe.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  17. Re:What will the Libs do? by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 2, Funny

    Not for diatoms, maybe, but for nano-sea-kittens?

    --
    Not a sentence!
  18. Re:What will the Libs do? by fuo · · Score: 1
  19. Altered ...orgasm? by letsgetsilly · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Did anyone else read this incorrectly at first? I wanted to know what I needed to do to triple the power of my orgasm

    1. Re:Altered ...orgasm? by andrewd18 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm sorry, but three times something you'll never have is still zero.

    2. Re:Altered ...orgasm? by letsgetsilly · · Score: 1

      Zing! Best "come"-back ever.

      Sigh..with each post my maturity level decreases by 1.

    3. Re:Altered ...orgasm? by andrewd18 · · Score: 1

      I know what you mean... the internet has ruined me forever.

    4. Re:Altered ...orgasm? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      That could have been a pretty good zinger, but it would have made more sense if the poster had actually mentioned sex rather than orgasm.

  20. Re: more advanced than we are currently by macraig · · Score: 1

    Apparently we once were... ever heard of Atlantis?

  21. Re:What will the Libs do? by x2A · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "even the PETA retards aren't that rabid"

    Wanna bet? :-p

    --
    The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
  22. I wonder.. by Anachragnome · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wonder what effect this will have on evolutionary processes in the diatoms.

    How will they respond to the titanium dioxide in an evolutionary context?

    1. Re:I wonder.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why, they'll die of course!

    2. Re:I wonder.. by bar-agent · · Score: 1

      How will they respond to the titanium dioxide in an evolutionary context?

      Article says they only take up titanium dioxide if no silicon dioxide is available. But if they maintain a strain of diatoms perpetually deprived of titanium dioxide, we might see some natural selection in action. I guess diatoms don't currently make used of silicon dioxide in any capacity aside from shell production, though, since the diatoms fed only titanium dioxide seem to be able to live, so I doubt anything much would happen.

      --
      i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
  23. Just me? by user-hostile · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Anyone else read that as 'Altered Orgasm'?


    U-H

    1. Re:Just me? by RazzleDazzle · · Score: 1

      First thing I thought was "Altered Beast".

      RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE! And seriously, if you can be risen from the grave surely you make me better then a weasly wimp that takes 2 hits to knock a wobbly zombie head off before I get my POWER UP water bubbles.

      --
      ZERO ZERO ONE ZERO ONE ZERO ONE ONE! Just brushing up for my next big invention: Ethernet over Voice (EoV)
    2. Re:Just me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe... what's an orgasm?

  24. Humans Who Don't Eat by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Funny

    Maybe they can do the same with humans, and we no longer need to eat: just hang out in the sun. My wife keeps telling me that I'm as lazy as a plant anyhow. Might as well go all the way.

    1. Re:Humans Who Don't Eat by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Reginald Bushroot thought the same thing... look what happened to him.

  25. I wonder by gurps_npc · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    how long before some idiot decides he can patent this idea.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  26. Affected by temp? by Zot · · Score: 0

    Since this is organic, how is it affected by temperature?
    Will it have problems in freezing weather? What about hot weather?
    Will animals want to eat it?
    Will it biodegrade?

    1. Re:Affected by temp? by Sowelu · · Score: 1

      FTA: "After removing the organic material from the shells, leaving behind the diatom's nanoscale skeletons composed of titanium dioxide, the researchers mixed the material in a dye."

      It is an organic production method, but the final product is not organic. Still valid questions perhaps, but not because it's organic.

  27. Anyone else notice? by __aagmrb7289 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Did anyone else notice that the article didn't bother to compare the solar cells with, I don't know, other solar cells? They didn't talk about efficiency compared to any other existing method of making solar cells, except for the exact same methodology minus the diatoms.

    Sounds like they are "fishing" for some more funding. Oh yes I can.

    1. Re:Anyone else notice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      FTFA:

      Dye-sensitized solar cells are favored as a thin-film material because they work in low-light conditions and are fabricated with environmentally benign materials compared to silicon solar cells. However, silicon cells have more than twice the efficiency, as much as 20 percent compared to less than 10 percent for dye-sensitized solar cells.

      In the low-light environmentally safe field, these are the "normal" solar cells.

      If you are looking for the replacement power plant cells (toxic, always aligned with the sun, typically out in the middle of a desert to avoid clouds) these aren't the cells you want.

      But if these are intended to be mass marketed and put all over the place, this is the type you want.

    2. Re:Anyone else notice? by vadim_t · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's nothing wrong with fishing for more funding.

      The important thing isn't the efficiency, but the price/performance ratio.

      1% efficient cells that are dirt cheap still aren't worth installing on your roof.
      95% efficient cells at $50K per square meter are only of interest for satellite applications.

      But, a 30% efficient cell that's reasonably cheap is a whole lot more interesting than a 40% one that costs 5 times as much. Taking a cheap 10% efficient tech and making it 3 times better without making it 3 times more expensive is a very useful thing.

  28. Can someone say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shellular exploitation?

  29. Re:8==C=O=C=K==S=L=A=P==D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Brought to you by BME?

  30. Re:I for one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fail.

  31. Biology - Underutilized by WGFCrafty · · Score: 3, Interesting
    A lot of animals will alter chemicals in the same way regardless of whether it is natural to the organism.
    Dr. Alexander Shulgin talks about something similar, making a mushroom take care of his work.

    However there is a very interesting study that took place in Leipzig about 15 years ago. Jochen Gartz, a mushroom explorer whom I know quite well, has done some fascinating studies with Psilocybe species by raising them on solid media containing strange tryptamines that are alien to the mushroom. Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin.

  32. Okay time to start a bounty: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $50 to the first hacker wh can replace those fish with images of sushi.

  33. More Bullshit by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Between this, that kid who had some amazing breakthrough with no help from his parents and others, honest, and all the other breakthroughs we've had, solar efficiency has been boosted over 100 fold in the past decade.

    Why has none of it come to fruition?

    Could it be that bullshit headlines and shoddy research yields more research funds?

    1. Re:More Bullshit by tsotha · · Score: 1

      The bullshit headlines probably come mostly from j-school grads reading actual science papers.

      As to why we haven't seen it in the real world? I'm not surprised. There's already an existing method to create solar cells, so for a new scheme to actually hit the market you have to solve problems with manufacturing and lifespan. If your vastly more efficient solar cell requires plutonium to function it probably won't amount to more than a lab curiosity.

  34. Re: !120% efficiency by aliquis · · Score: 1

    Because:
    "This gives cells with up to 20 percent efficiency" don't give them as much money when other technologies gives up to 40% as "twice as much."

    Three times sounds wrong, unless it's over 20 percent now and much less than 10 percent earlier, your 30% figure don't make sense either.

  35. Problems Remain by ewhac · · Score: 1
    After allowing them to breed for a couple of generations, the organisms accused the scientists of being, "big ugly bags of mostly water," and subsequently attempted to destroy the lab before the technicians could shut the lights off.

    Schwab

  36. viability by Rue+C+Koegel · · Score: 1

    It's not the efficiency that counts so much as the cost, if they can make the total cost [of solar power] less than that of coal, then it will be viable, ... Or we could just use nuclear like sensible people until science perfects fusion or solar.

    yeah, you're totally right, solar power isn't already more cost efficient than the loss of our entire freaking planet.

    we should probably just all start burning everything--our homes and our children, cause there's nothing better for us to do than speed up the process.

    sit boo boo, sit.

    --
    DON'T CAPITALIZE! CO-OPERATE! AND FREE EVERYTHING!
    1. Re:viability by Smallpond · · Score: 1

      Fortunately, there is no negative side to solar power: for example, harmful chemicals used in the production of solar cells. So we don't need to have any reasoned debate on the costs and benefits of one technology versus the other. We can just launch straight into hyperbole to flatten anyone who disagrees with us.

    2. Re:viability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just remember, i wasn't the one who said it was so.

      no, really, honestly i just think it's unfortunate that cost is even discussed. it seems irrational to me. one thing has been proven to cause mass and undesirable--and possibly unrepairable--effects, yet we insist on not changing forthwith.

      it appears to me to be succinctly on par with both addictive and childish behavior.

      consider if you will the 13 trillion dollars the US Gov is borrowing to spend on US business over the next several years just to keep our economy afloat, what's the point if we have no land to grow food on. how much do you think it would cost to simply replace all coal burning plants with an alternative tech? even nuclear could work since we could actually send the waste into space (not that i really like the idea, but it would probably allow for the survival of human beings on this planet).

      BTW, any harmful chemicals used in the processing of solar cells can be contained easily enough and repurposed far easier than the exhaust and waste from the use of coal, oil, and nuclear.

      also, from what i've read and seen, solar cells can actually be made from rather inert chemicals and compounds and without nasty chemicals during processing. such simple solar cells may however not be nearly productive enough for capitalists to consider making them in mass, less people realize that even with high costs per watt they're still doing greater good. which is obviously better than less good.

      let us not forget wind, solar, and hydrogen power.

      the solutions are there, we just aren't using them because of our overdeveloped and under-reproved sense of greed.

    3. Re:viability by Rue+C+Koegel · · Score: 1

      i'm logged in, i have no idea why that posted anonymously... but i think reposting would be silly, so...

      the above post was by me folks! ; )

      --
      DON'T CAPITALIZE! CO-OPERATE! AND FREE EVERYTHING!
  37. 6-10% by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 4, Interesting

    30 seconds of googling reports that dye cells currently produce around 6-10%. If you can triple that, it makes a really good solar cell. If you can do that and keep costs low, it makes a great solar cell.

  38. Don't tell PETA by WindShadow · · Score: 1

    I'm sure the harvesting of innocent diatoms for their shells will offend someone. Maybe the right to life folks as well, and if these are naked diatoms, the people who want clothes on cats and dogs, as well.

    There is no end to stupidity, therefore the Universe must be infinite.

  39. The artcile is tagged "PETA" by joocemann · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... but diatoms are *Not* animals.

    They are eukaryote, but not animals. Plus, PETA doesn't really care about microscopic animals --- they care about the animals you would learn about in a book for children.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromalveolata

  40. Obligatory by s1lverl0rd · · Score: 0

    I, for one, welcome our new solar-powered overlords. /ducks

  41. USDA organic? by mi · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    How long before use of this technology by a farm will disqualify the farm's produce from the "USDA organic" label?

    They already can not use genetically modified ingredients (which are harmless), equating GM with pesticides and anti-biotics (which aren't)...

    Someone (PETA?) will claim, that such twisting of nature is bad, unethical, and somehow unhealthy and lobby the government to add the requirement for its "organic" certification...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:USDA organic? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'd be more likely to expect Monsanto to add that requirement....and an expensive way to get around it.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    2. Re:USDA organic? by rhakka · · Score: 1

      You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder about "organic", which is a label intended to let interested consumers know that food is relatively naturally produced.

      GM does not meet that definition for good reason. Your GM food has seen a few generations of testing... not thousands. It is not organic, whether or not we think it's harmless at this time. Organic does and should remain a very strict bar to reach.

      If you want a new label for GM only, but OTHERWISE natural, lobby for it. "Pesticide Free" maybe.

      but fuck you for even insinuating GM should be included in the "organic" family of foods. or even the trolling that how a farm generates POWER would have any effect whatsoever on its organic rating. Nobody says gm is the same as pesticides or antibiotics (except, of course the GM that creates such compounds like BT corn and its bug killing bacteria) but that doesn't make it natural, which is what organic consumers are looking for. Not "deemed safe by a testing organization" but instead "deemed safe by thousands of years of consumption".

      If you don't care about eating organic, don't eat organic. But don't screw with people who do care about not being guinea pigs for whatever biotech Monsanto has declared safe this week, or paid large amounts of money to have FDA employees who may or may not ever get jobs at Monsanto declare safe over a few years of reading Monsanto reports and maybe, if we're lucky, reading something Monsanto didn't point them at. Maybe the stuff really is safe: great. Too bad for all those people paying all that money for unnecessarily expense food, eh? But Maybe, just Maybe, all the testing isn't quite exhaustive or conclusive all by itself, eh?

      and before you even start, only about half of my diet is organic, at best. I'm hardly a zealot. I just acknowledge the limits of testing and don't begrudge anyone the right to be FULLY INFORMED about the food they choose to put in their bodies.

    3. Re:USDA organic? by mi · · Score: 1

      GM does not meet that definition for good reason. Your GM food has seen a few generations of testing... not thousands.

      To anyone with even a college-level understanding of science, that is not a good reason... Thousands of generations may be required to determine long-term survivability of the species, but they are just as edible. Far more "dangerous" things can be done by simply mixing various organic foods into a meal (or a food product) after slaughter/harvesting, than can happen in a living organism.

      If you want a new label for GM only, but OTHERWISE natural, lobby for it. "Pesticide Free" maybe.

      Why don't you lobby instead for non-GM to be a separate certification? That would make far more sense... People opposed to GM, for whatever reason, will then be able to buy non-GM foods, but if they don't care for pesticides or anti-biotics, they don't have to pay extra for that?

      but fuck you for even insinuating GM should be included in the "organic" family of foods

      Oh! So that is the high-minded discourse one gets for doubting the dogma. Thank you very much...

      If you don't care about eating organic, don't eat organic.

      I do care. But I don't want anti-business fear-mongering to affect the meaning of what "organic" means. Things like traces of anti-biotics and pesticides may well be harmful. Genetic modifications can not.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    4. Re:USDA organic? by rhakka · · Score: 1

      CAN NOT be hamful? really? that's quite a dogmatic statement, for one who "doubts dogma". So plants engineered to KILL THINGS... that has no effect whatsoever on a person that eats it? it's exactly the same? That would be an amazing thing, if true. However, it's a ridiculous statement: you can't know that for all current and future GM technology. THAT is what organic means: we are not guessing. I'm a little stunned you could even pretend there could be no effects. You could GM a plant specifically to kill people, so your statement is obviously wrong. And if you are interested in science, you should realize you could not make such definite statements such as "can not" be harmful. All you can say is "doesn't seem to be harmful so far". Any time you change something significantly you introduce the possibility of unintended consequences.

      the World Health Organization is on my side as well,

      http://www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/biotech/20questions/en/

      Q8. Are GM foods safe?

      Different GM organisms include different genes inserted in different ways. This means that individual GM foods and their safety should be assessed on a case-by-case basis and that it is not possible to make general statements on the safety of all GM foods.

      GM foods currently available on the international market have passed risk assessments and are not likely to present risks for human health. In addition, no effects on human health have been shown as a result of the consumption of such foods by the general population in the countries where they have been approved. Continuous use of risk assessments based on the Codex principles and, where appropriate, including post market monitoring, should form the basis for evaluating the safety of GM foods.

      Your thousands of generations may be well and good in a lab, but I mean thousands of human generations, not plant generations. I don't care how many plants people peer at in a lab. I care how many people have grown old eating the stuff.

      Organic is a specific term because that is what organic consumers want. Seriously: fuck you for even mentioning watering it down, it's already hard enough to stop Walmart and other big boys from co-opting the term to make it meaningless. That would only serve to mislead consumers who don't wish to be full time participants in science experiments. and consumers of natural foods want to know if it's GM, for the most part, like it or not, and it should be our right to make that decision for ourselves.