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Microsoft and Yahoo Discussing Search Partnership
An anonymous reader writes "The Guardian reports that Microsoft and Yahoo are talking about a search engine partnership as they desperately try to come up with something, anything, to take on Google. 'Although there is no suggestion that Microsoft's failed bid will be resurrected, the two companies are believed to be discussing ways they can link up to combat the growing power of their chief rival, Google. Quoting sources close to the discussions, the authoritative Dow Jones All Things Digital blog said that "the talks between the pair are preliminary and wide-ranging."'"
first post. guess nobody cares about this one.
--Forest C. Adcock--
that doesn't work, does it?
Anyway, Google started with a search methodology that was dreamed up by two guys in their spare time. Obviously, it was a good one. Still, seems to me that Microsoft and Yahoo, with all their money and competent programmers, simply need to come up with a better one. Otherwise, what else can they bring to the table?
Google is now synomonous with the internet. It would take an amazing search engine to be able to topple Google's power.
MS motive: Make money by throwing large amounts of MS branded crap (with some useful stuff) at you and hope your willing to pay to have it cleaned up so you can keep the bits you like.
Google motive: Make money by throwing large amounts of information at you with some of revenue targeted information you may be interested in.
Until MS turns it model around and starts giving people what they want first and then cashing in on that association, they won't beat the trend that Google has going, unless Google turns around and start sending you crap first.
-- The morphemes of your disquisition are ascertainable, but they have eschewed an ambit of transpicuous exposition.
...although, as to which is which, your guess is as good as mine.
Only instead of Peanut Butter and Chocolate, they look to combine used motor oil in a crunchy shell of glass shards.
Metaphorically speaking.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Turns up "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!!!" as the first result.
I bought a new drive namely WD WD1001FALS, as all new drives, I fired up Safari and entered exactly these search terms: WD1001FALS specs
All I had was bunch of clever search optimization geniuses trying to sell me drive and some really annoying google search spammers. I gave up after 5th page and went to Western Digital directly.
Yahoo search gives some market results too but they seem to be legit search results with known reviewers like PC World. Perhaps Google has become so big that it started to hurt them seriously? I guess everyone out there tries to hack their results and become somewhat successful. There is no mechanism to easily tell Google that they are spammers too. Don't even bother telling me about feedback form.
I had another experience where searching for Avast Antivirus (which is extremely popular freeware) on Windows ended up with actual virus/trojan results while Yahoo search gives better results, at least no malware (they got some scanner in search). It really bugged me because it was a completely unprotected Windows fresh installation. Imagine some newbie actually trusting those results.
In a Virtual Windows machine, as I got all stock IE etc. for testing, I remember not being able to find "dotnetfx 3.5 download" via live search. Results coming up were trojans. I ended up going to MS downloads site directly, completely in shock.
Another thing. If you even hear live search is great, better and use Safari, Firefox, you won't feel like going there since you will have a feeling that it will work bad for your browser. I guess that is exact reason why MS wants to partner with Yahoo who never created such "phobia".
"This [search] is the feces that is produced when shame eats too much stupidity."
Seriously, MS isn't about to make Yahoo! their default search over MSN. Yahoo isn't about to cede traffic over to MSN, even indirectly by lending their search backend to make MSN not suck as much. And along those lines, MSN is so terrible that 95% of people go out of their way ignore it even though it is the default in IE.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
That's what I love about IT. All the money in the world won't necessarily beat a persistent and smart person.
Even if you tie two rocks together, it doesn't mean they'll float. MS and Yahoo need to look into R&D, not merger - this move makes no sense.
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
"the talks between the pair are preliminary and wide-ranging."' and hopeless.
Twitter provides realtime search. It shows intent realtime. It shows trends. It's faster than the news media and blogs, and, with a 140 character limit, it cuts to the chase. And it's growing like crazy.
MS and / or Yahoo should be looking at Twitter seriously. It's the real deal.
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
When Google were sniffing around Yahoo, Microsoft complained that a monopoly (in online advertising) was "a bad deal for the consumer". They then release the lobbying hounds to Washington and ensure that any deal is blocked as "anti-competitive". Like most sane people, I agree with them that monopolies are bad for the consumer. Considering their own monopolies on desktop OS's people can buy in stores, and office suites I'd love the same tools to be turned back on Microsoft now. I'd love Google to lobby Washington with the exact same argument Microsoft used. Having said that, politicians decisions are more to do with who is bought than any rightness of a cause.
I'd love to see Microsoft waste money on yet another falling star, try to get market share by acquisition rather than providing a product / service people actually want. Business as usual really. This time round they may not want all of Yahoo, but only cherry pick parts of it. The part that I'd draw attention to is Zimbra. We all know how Microsoft love competition to their flagship earners, so any Yahoo deal will involve the destruction of Zimbra as we know it. Does anyone know offhand how well placed Zimbra is license wise to fork if / when the hammer of Redmond strikes?
It's only very slightly worse than Google, nowadays. Microsoft's, on the other hand, is still crap on a stick, and it's not worth spending time talking about.
So, returning to Yahoo: at this point, what Yahoo needs is a better image, as the search engine itself, in its core, is fine. And to improve their image, Yahoo might want to tone down the "noise" that their site seems to throw at the users. Also, Yahoo should do a real effort to actually unify all those services inside of "My Yahoo". As it is now, "My Yahoo" is utterly useless, and the various Yahoo services seem to be kept together with spit or nothing. MOstly nothing.
For an example of the "Yahoo noise" I was talking about, just see Yahoo Messenger. I hate that shit with passion (but am forced to use it 'cause my GF likes it, and is convinced that the "connection is better than with Skype").
That said, Yahoo services are less "noisy" than Hotmail and the resto of MSN.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Search quality isn't the only issue; Google is bringing in more advertising money (and at a higher rate). Yahoo! and Microsoft combined could well do better than either alone (all they have to do is convince advertising customers that they are providing better value).
I don't use Yahoo! or Microsoft for searching much so I don't really have any idea, but I have heard at least rumblings that they aren't too far from what Google offers.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
It would appear, to me, this is similar to the class bully and that kid who should be on the short bus getting together in an effort to win the science fair competition.
While it works in 80's movies with a mediocre soundtrack for the montage scene, I'm at a loss as to how John Hughes would resolve this in the final act.
IMHO, the mistake of both Microsoft and Yahoo is to think that this is merely a war for market share, and that they can win by simply duplicating whatever google does.
In fact, this is more of an innovation war: users won't switch to whatever microsoft/yahoo partnership offers unless it does something that people find useful AND that google has not implemented yet.
... before looking into other markets in which they can do a half-arsed job and ultimately fail.
Yahoo essentially have been failing at everything for a decade or more
The danger is that search is not "Good Enough". Microsoft can't beat Linux servers because kernels are "Good Enough", but it can win in the office suite space.
In a design problem like "search the web, and return the most popular and relevant sites from the input phrase", there is just not a lot of scope to make massive improvements. Google's pagerank algorithm was probably the only massive step. Nobody needs to switch, unless Google makes a really heinous mistake, like adopting a Twitter-like interface.
MS and / or Yahoo should be looking at Twitter seriously. It's the real deal.
You're on the right track, but why should Microsoft or Yahoo buy Twitter while both of them have their instant messengers? Add a little paragraph to their EULA saying that all user content belongs to them(if they haven't already, and most people will just click through it anyway) and they have the equivalent of a million Twitters' user data and conversations to strip-mine to their heart's content!
Consolidation of both userbases would be the only thing out of a merger which would make sense!
Twitter search will only be good while the spammers stay off. Which means it can never be too popular.
Google Returned a semi useful article that I could actually gleam some info from.
Twitter on the other hand returned no results. Even after simplifying my terms to "drawing on laminated material" I still didn't find anything. Twitter is just another fad for the hive minders.
PS: Does anyone know of what type of material I can use dry erase markers on? I was looking at laminate and foam board as the white boards are too heavy for my purposes.
Common Sense
While there are many mimickers on the scene (Plurk and Yapp come immediately to mind), Twitter seems to have reached critical mass - the Bandwagon effect so to speak. Everyone is on it, and if you're not, you're a crusty, cantankerous old person (no matter what age you really are). Big brands and small businesses are leveraging Twitter as a cost effective social media tool. News media like CNN are amassing huge followings. Pre-teens are on it. It has a more dynamic interface than instant messengers as well (heck, Facebook copied it).
And of course, the Twitter API is open source, so you're seeing funky new apps, hacks and features appear every day.
Google is king of search, but Twitter owns realtime search, and that's where the future is headed. It's what people want.
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
I can understand why this would happen, it's still stupid though. Microsoft's search is an abortion of technology and Yahoo is a Search Directory, how they intend on improving their search tech with a directory site I don't know, but it's guaranteed to be a failed attempt. Hell, I used to run a directory site when I was a teenager (one site even requested to be added to it)! It was nothing more than page after page of lists of links, much like Yahoo was when they first started out. The only difference is that they also had a search box while mine didn't.
how is babby formed?
Ok, so what is surprising about this? Microsoft had an active hand in ousting the Yahoo CEO, and a 'partnership' is news?
It's more like the Borg.... 'you WILL be assimilated, resistance is futile.'
I am open source, and Linux baby!
Well, as someone who uses Yahoo Search exclusively I can say for me Yahoo gives the better experience. It really is a shame that more folks don't try Yahoo Search because IMHO it has gotten better than Google. What makes it better is that little more button tab at the top. I can type in "the dark knight" and I get reviews, interviews,trailer, Heath Ledger, etc. The only problem is the GUI isn't intuitive if you aren't the "ooh what does THAT do?" type like I am.
Most folks don't realize that little blue tab right below the search box is the more tab, since it isn't labeled as such. but after using the more tab I just can't stand using Google anymore. It makes it just too easy to drill down to exactly what I want without having to do a lot of typing. Plus the fact that their more tab supports tabbed browsing just seals the deal for me. Give it a try and I bet you'll be hooked too.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I suppose for at least a few people, the Yahoo homepage is overwhelming and unlike Google's simple homepage. However, http://search.yahoo.com/ does provide a nice, clean Google-like interface.
R&D?!? Bu-wahhhaaa, that was soo 90's. Get over it already.
Ooops, forgot the winky face emoticon after that, -sorry by bad.
'Although there is no suggestion that Microsoft's failed bid will be resurrected, the two companies are believed to be discussing ways they can link up to combat the growing power of their chief rival, Google.
"Their" chief rival... Really? Microsoft is primarily an OS/Office suite vendor. If you had to define the essence of their core business model - that's it. I never understood why Microsoft has singled out Google as an enemy that has to be defeated, as opposed to someone to collaborate with. Yahoo, well, that makes perfect sense - Google has been beating the pants off of them for years. However, Microsoft's shareholders would be better served if they focused on making OS and productivity software that does not suck, as opposed to spending millions of dollars indexing and storing data to make an inferior product to dump more marketing dollars on to compete with a company operating in a different market segment. Why go through all that effort to reinvent the wheel?
It sure must be nice for Ballmer to have a stockpile of money worthy of Scrooge McDuck to piss away on pet projects...
The only people I've ever known to use yahoo or msn where people who didn't know about googles existence.
*DrugCheese rants*
Why are computer business people so brilliant yet so retarded at the same time? Trying to topple Google is like trying to topple World of Warcraft. It's just not going to happen unless the company does something suicidal with their product. The best way to 'compete' against monolithic things like that isn't about direct competition but instead about offering something different.
Ok given my site is programmers centric, but the IE rate fell below 17% on this site absolute.
Programmers usually are 2 years in front of the general public. As it seems they should give up trying to pull crap with IE (even with IE8 they tried to pull crap saying ACID3 is not standards while it clearly is, there is no HTML5 in ACID3 and then scoring measly 17% while even Fox3 scored around 70%)
They have lost the web programmers in the mindshare clearly and as it seems even in the general public Mozilla has surpassed them in absolute numbers on non programmers sites recently (with numbers similar to the programmers ones two years ago)
So in other words, if they loose the HTML dominance they have lost any foot to gain ground in the search engine area entirely. Which I personally see as a positive thing!
So in other words, the tricks Microsoft pulled in the past with IE6+ are backfiring now heavily, they simply screwed too many developers over!
And they have lost them forever, those people are not forgiving years of pain of having to support their crapware as well while trying to support the rest of the world with standards!
Lose the developers lose the web how hard is that to grasp? Probably hard enough because they did not get it while monkey boy was screaming developers developers developers...
And they still have not gotten it!
It has been a long time since Google was genuinely better in its search results. It was definitely revolutionary back in its day (which is why it killed off all competition so quickly), but by now the rest have caught up. It's now more an issue of usability and market penetration than anything else.
Microsoft and Yahoo have been copying Google for the last 9 years, and yet their copies are still really poor and second rate.
I use Google services, and will continue to use Google services, until Yahoo and Microsoft decides that maybe they need to improve quality and service to get customers.
I use Adsense, Adwords, Maps, Gmail, Checkout, Froogle, Scholar, and others - and I spend a lot of money with them too. Compare these to the second rate copies, and Google is way better.
Actually, the quality of Google services are steadily dropping. For example Checkout keeps increasing fees, and Adsense keeps reducing payouts by 50% a year for the last 4 years.
I would happily swap over to Yahoo or Microsoft if they actually offered something better.
Merger != Quality
As Microsoft's search engine share sunk to its lowest level yet in February, with approximately 8 to 9 queries total worldwide, Steve Ballmer has reiterated his willingness to hook up with Yahoo! and its 21 queries worldwide.
The press conference was held on a street corner in San Francisco as Mr Ballmer and Jerry Yang sat with their hats on the sidewalk and playing harmonicas with a "WILL WEBSEARCH FOR FOOD" sign behind them.
"Understandably, we expect less activity in the Great Recession," said Mr Ballmer. "Nobody knows what value assets should be ... say, you aren't finished with that cigarette, are you?"
Press attendees included a schizophrenic local resident in a tinfoil hat ("to keep Google out"), two teenagers drunk on malt liquor and a policeman keeping an eye on things from a distance. The teenagers taunted, confused and upset Mr Ballmer by suggesting he attempt to locate his own posterior.
"My new search technology is unstoppable! Just look at this netbook!" shouted Mr Ballmer, waving an Etch-a-Sketch in a threatening manner. "IT'S MAUVE! IT RUNS WINDOWS SEVEN! LINUX PUT A RADIO IN MY HEAD! I'LL SHOW 'EM ALL! BASTARDS!"
"Some love stories are eternal," said Mr Yang. "Romeo and Juliet. Heloise and Abelard. Leopold and Loeb. Microsoft and Yahoo."
http://rocknerd.co.uk
To be fair, Google Image Search is still shitty. Microsoft Live Image Search is nearly as useful in practice.
Google cracked the text search problem and have the best email client ever. That doesn't mean they shit gold, or even close.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Microsoft getting into the search engine business is like trying to get GM to partner with Ferrari.
There's money to be made elsewhere, and MS, you seem to have been doing a pretty damn good job of it. You already conquer the Office suite market in the corporate world, and you act like you're sitting here scratching your head as to what to bring to the cloud through your own portal? Give me a break. I think people could probably remember how to get to mycloud.microsoft.com without having to search for it.
Really though. in all the latest search relevance rankings, Yahoo! and even Microsoft's Live search both are on par with Google. There "difference" is very slight these days.
Really it comes down to Google having their name out there more then anything else. Additionally, they are willing to pay more to be the default browsers for ISPs and web clients.
So the aim of this deal is not to combine assets to try to compete algorithmically, they both already do that quite well. This is more for advertisers.. so instead of having Google + many other buckets to put their advertising dollars in, they will essentially have 2. I see this more as a problem for the little guys then Google though.. like AOL, Ask.com, etc...
I have had my new gmail address in my yahoo sig since last time it looked like this merger might happen. Out of habit I have been still been using my yahoo one. I loved yahoo in the roaring 90s, but no so much lately.
Msn is crap and I know MS will break yahoo.com worse.
So, now I want to delete my yahoo account. Is that possible?
Troll harder. I'm sure you will get to suck Stallmans cock soon.
it is the first one from live search result. have you really tried it?