Slashdot Mirror


The Woman Who Established Fair Use

The Narrative Fallacy writes "The Washington Post has an interesting profile on Barbara A. Ringer, who joined the Copyright Office at the Library of Congress in 1949 and spent 21 years drafting the legislation and lobbying Congress before the Copyright Act of 1976 was finally passed. Ringer wrote most of the bill herself. 'Barbara had personal and political skills that could meld together the contentious factions that threatened to tear apart every compromise in the 20 year road to passage of the 1976 Act,' wrote copyright lawyer William Patry. The act codified the fair use defense to copyright infringement. For the first time, scholars and reviewers could quote briefly from copyrighted works without having to pay fees. With the 1976 act that Ringer conceived, an author owned the copyright for his or her lifetime plus 50 years. Previously under the old 1909 law, an author owned the copyright for 28 years from the date of publication and unless the copyright was renewed, the work entered the public domain, and the author lost any right to royalties. Ringer received the President's Award for Distinguished Federal Civilian Service, the highest honor for a federal worker. Ringer remained active in copyright law for years, attending international conferences and filing briefs with the Supreme Court before her death earlier this year at age 83. 'Her contributions were monumental,' said Marybeth Peters, the Library of Congress's current register of copyrights. 'She blazed trails. She was a heroine.'"

226 comments

  1. Now I know who to blame by Daengbo · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now I know who to blame for the demise of the public domain. It's all her fault! Get her! I've got my pitchfork. j/k

    1. Re:Now I know who to blame by Gerzel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Her law as written wasn't too bad. Back then a lifetime +50 wasn't that bad; though I do think it is a bit much. I'd say lifetime or n years, where n is the average life span of the time and set n every 20 years, which ever is greater if you don't want to have to establish stricter registrations(to establish start dates).

    2. Re:Now I know who to blame by Runaway1956 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Can we attempt to put this into a little better perspective?

      A lifetime is generally unfair to a lot of authors - if the old dude wrote his greatest work only days, months, or two or three years before croaking, he and his estate make very little.

      Lifetime +50 might be a little to much, but I can live with it.

      Lifetime +25 seems reasonable to me - even if the old goat's work is published the day he dies, his estate has a quarter CENTURY to make something of his work.

      The problem is, WHO OWNS MOST COPYRIGHT TODAY?!?!?!

      It isn't the old goat who wrote a book, a song, or a software. It's the CORPORATIONS!

      And, what, precisely, is the lifetime of any given corporation? In effect, we have non-expiring copyright law today. Even if a corporation goes bankrupt, someone, somewhere BUYS their assets, becoming the new corporate owner of the copyright.

      Time limits on copyright needs to be addressed all over again, bearing in mind that the vast bulk of copyrights are either created by corporations and/or their employees in the name of the corporation, OR bought by corporations.

      Personally, I could justify limiting all copyright to 50 years, period.

      Aside from that, fair use really needs to be defined quite clearly. Copyright law was NEVER intended to inhibit creativity and free expression. It's ONLY legitimate purpose is to prevent other people from plegiarising and/or profiting from an original work.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    3. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just wanted to say thanks for this post, because it seems most folks on the 'net seem to think that the artists own the copyright, and assume that "lifetime plus x years" apply when the author/artist dies. There are very few authors, musicians, etc., who actually own the copyright to their work. This scheme would have only worked back in the days of Charles Dickens, etc.

    4. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not quite accurate. Songwriters often own the copyright to the song just not he recorded performance.

    5. Re:Now I know who to blame by Kalten · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem is, WHO OWNS MOST COPYRIGHT TODAY?!?!?!

      It isn't the old goat who wrote a book, a song, or a software. It's the CORPORATIONS!

      And, what, precisely, is the lifetime of any given corporation? In effect, we have non-expiring copyright law today. Even if a corporation goes bankrupt, someone, somewhere BUYS their assets, becoming the new corporate owner of the copyright.

      Cornell University Law School is your friend when you want to find out about things like this--they have the U.S. Code available online.

      In particular, 17 USC 302 is edifying. Copyright in works for hire persists for 95 years from first publication, or 120 years from creation, whichever comes first. If it's not a work for hire, then it's life of the author + 70 years. Older works (first published prior to 1978) are covered under different provisions.

    6. Re:Now I know who to blame by belg4mit · · Score: 2, Informative

      >A lifetime is generally unfair to a lot of authors^Wother people in society

      There, fixed that for you. Seriously, why should you be able (or want to) rest
      on your laurels your whole life for the production of one item? If you make
      enough money in publication date+X years and decide to be a lazy sod or
      philanthropist, then so be it. But you, and the Nth-generation descendants
      ought not continue to collect royalties and stymie the creativity of others
      for what is effectively perpetuity i.e; the entire/majority lifespan of others.

      --
      Were that I say, pancakes?
    7. Re:Now I know who to blame by Dun+Malg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A lifetime is generally unfair to a lot of authors - if the old dude wrote his greatest work only days, months, or two or three years before croaking, he and his estate make very little.

      You don't seem to understand why we have copyright law. The purpose of copyright isn't to enrich the creator and his heirs, it's to encourage the creator to create more. If he dies, that's over. If the heirs want to get rich on creations, let them write their own shit. And don't bother with the "pass on the family business" thing, because if a plumber wants to pass his business on to his son, he better teach him plumbing.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    8. Re:Now I know who to blame by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      Lifetime +25 seems reasonable to me - even if the old goat's work is published the day he dies, his estate has a quarter CENTURY to make something of his work.

      whats wrong with 28 years and renew by the original author, the estate gets 28 years if they publish the day he dies. The solution to your the who owns the copyright is to only allow the original author/claimant to renew the copyright. Additionally renewing copyright should require registration (very few things would be worth re-registration and so there wouldn't be the same problem with excess requests)

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    9. Re:Now I know who to blame by zippthorne · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uh why not just make it "Y years from first publication" regardless of when the author dies?

      And frankly, I think depending on the work, the term should be from 3 years (graphics hardware and printer drivers) to, say, seven, with no more than three renews, which require payment. But we can argue about the numbers.

      Actually, I wouldn't mind if the term was indefinite, as long as you had to declare a value that you a) pay copyright taxes on and b) must sell for if offered by an organization that buys IP into the public domain. I don't like the idea of all the government revenue, but I do like the idea of not over-valuing IP. Also, there ought to be a grace period depending on industry for determining value.

      Hmm.. On second thought.. I think I know what how to handle the revenue. The copyright tax should be somewhat different from a regular tax, in that it never hits the general fund. The copyright office itself should be an organization charged with buying works into the public domain, and they should spend 100% of the "copyright tax" money on that every year. It will be easy to figure out, since they would have a database of the buy-prices for everything.

      The tax would begin after the Nth year (where N is some number that we will certainly argue about), and the office could take it's administrative costs out of the initial fees for the first issuance.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    10. Re:Now I know who to blame by somanyrobots · · Score: 5, Informative

      You do know that life + 70 (the current term in the US, as of the 1998 Sonny Bono Act) only applies to the life of the original creator, right? It has no relevance to the lifetime of a corporation; even if the rights are transferred to a corporation, copyright still expires 70 years after the death of the original author.

      For works that are created by corporations (i.e. works-for-hire), copyright lasts for 95 years after publication.

      Not that I don't agree with you; copyright extension is awful, and I personally wish it were possible to revert copyright to 28+28 or even the original (1790 Copyright Act) term of 14 years + a 14 year renewal. But you should check your facts.

    11. Re:Now I know who to blame by FiloEleven · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You make a good point, but I think you're being a little harsh. There are other assets that get passed on after death, like stocks and wealth and houses and boats. Why should copyright be any different? It's also no guarantee that the heirs will get rich--the vast majority of copyrighted works don't make much money, especially after the first few years.

      I personally think that the 1909 law (28 years + renewal) was a much better length of time (though I am skeptical about the renewal), and that fair use should have simply been added to that law. If the unfortunate author would still have held copyright while living, it makes sense that his heirs would retain it until it expired, yet the strict time limit would keep pressure on a still-living author to create more works.

    12. Re:Now I know who to blame by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And don't bother with the "pass on the family business" thing, because if a plumber wants to pass his business on to his son, he better teach him plumbing.

      If a plumber does a job and then dies before collecting payment, his heirs are entitled to the money. That's the reasoning behind extending copyright past the life of the author.

      That being said, the current "life plus the number of years since Steamboat Willie was released" is insane.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    13. Re:Now I know who to blame by LoverOfJoy · · Score: 1

      So how do we encourage a dying creator to create more? Well, if the creator is concerned about his children's financial well-being then guaranteeing that the children can be taken care of for some time by the profits of his final Magnum Opus may encourage him to put the effort into creating it (and making it great enough to be profitable for some time).

      Without the guarantee that those he love will profit from his efforts, why would a great creator spend his last few days, months, or two or three years before croaking creating more? He won't have time to spend it. In fact, he might not be able to find a publisher in time to even work with him. Why would people bother getting their dead relative's manuscript published (beyond honoring their name) if there's no profit in it (and possibly even a non-trivial amount of expenses)?

    14. Re:Now I know who to blame by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1

      The bit about their heirs is a good thing though. Why?

      If we say 20 yrs or death, whichever is shorter, then we apply a pressure to encourage "risky behavior" that might result in death. Whoops. Public domain Bayyybe!
      If we say 20 years flat, whatever is in the will is where it goes for the duration. It prevents that "Whoops" behavior I could see companies could encourage.

      And yeah, the relatives could be real scousers. Doesnt matter.

      --
    15. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are other assets that get passed on after death, like stocks and wealth and houses and boats. Why should copyright be any different?

      Well let's see. All the things you mention are MATERIAL THINGS. Copyright is not. You're damned right we should treat IDEAS different from MATERIAL GOODS.

    16. Re:Now I know who to blame by SydShamino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A lifetime is generally unfair to a lot of authors - if the old dude wrote his greatest work only days, months, or two or three years before croaking, he and his estate make very little.

      You don't seem to understand why we have copyright law. The purpose of copyright isn't to enrich the creator and his heirs, it's to encourage the creator to create more. If he dies, that's over. If the heirs want to get rich on creations, let them write their own shit. And don't bother with the "pass on the family business" thing, because if a plumber wants to pass his business on to his son, he better teach him plumbing.

      And if an old dude keeps writing because he knows it will help his younger wife and children once he's gone, he's been suitably encouraged.

      I wouldn't tie life to it at all. Just make it 50 years and be done. Or make it 15, $1 renewal for another 35.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    17. Re:Now I know who to blame by TimTucker · · Score: 1

      A lifetime is generally unfair to a lot of authors - if the old dude wrote his greatest work only days, months, or two or three years before croaking, he and his estate make very little.

      Why is it so unfair as compared to other fields of work? There nothing that would say the author can't demand a large up-front payment from a publisher or take out a larger insurance policy as a means of ensuring money for his heirs.

    18. Re:Now I know who to blame by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, the fact is, few works are worth millions and millions of dollars to an author. An author may reach the end of his productive career, and all of his works taken together may earn him a couple thousand dollars a month. He deserves that couple of thousand, IMO. More, if he dies a short time after publication, his estate should be entitled to something.

      It is the rare author who earns so much on a single work (even if it is his last and greatest) that he could afford to retire on it, and live the life of leisure. Authors aren't exactly movie stars, after all.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    19. Re:Now I know who to blame by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      OK, I'll repeat. "In effect, we have non-expiring copyright law today."

      A copyright on a corporate work goes into effect right now, tonight. How many people born tonight will live long enough to see that work go into the public domain? 95 years is a long time. My great-grandchildren may be dying of old age by that time!!

      So, IN EFFECT, we have non-expiring copyright law.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    20. Re:Now I know who to blame by nametaken · · Score: 1

      The purpose of copyright isn't to enrich the creator and his heirs, it's to encourage the creator to create more.

      I'm confused. Isn't the point exactly to help enrich the creator, thus encouraging creation in the first place? There's less incentive to create if someone else will just profit from it freely... right?

    21. Re:Now I know who to blame by ockegheim · · Score: 1

      An artist obtains copyright through talent and creativity. Corporations obtain copyright using money.

      Money can be fun and useful, but it's a substitute for the real thing.

      --
      I’m old enough to remember 16K of memory being described as “whopping”
    22. Re:Now I know who to blame by ImaLamer · · Score: 1

      I personally think that the 1909 law (28 years + renewal) was a much better length of time (though I am skeptical about the renewal)

      I think the good thing about the renewal is this: you'd only renew if it was worth it. If you weren't making money then you wouldn't bother and then it would enter the public domain. What could be good about this is that an author couldn't find 30 years after the work that it's on an upswing and cash in if it was never profitable before.

      Also, I'm guessing you'd have to be ALIVE to renew the copyright.

    23. Re:Now I know who to blame by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      Plus, any reasonably short copyright term tied to the author's lifetime is incentive to off the author. You really don't want that.

    24. Re:Now I know who to blame by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "only have to renew if it's worth it" is bullshit. The ONLY reason to have copyright last beyond ten years is for the case of people for whom what they have created isn't worth it, yet.

      Something like 10 years, non-renewable, starting from the time the work becomes generally available, might be sane. This means that someone who has been shopping around for a publisher for 10 years won't wake up one day to find that the first publisher to reject him has just started selling his book (in electronic form) at no risk and pure profit.

      --
      -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
    25. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how can there be any rational response to that beyond "Holy Fuck! Fuck You!"?

      Many people create right up to their dying day, without thinking of finances. Those are the real creators. Meanwhile, you want to wave the promise of maybe-cash in the faces of dying people to get them to do what you wish they would instead of letting them just get on with whatever they want? Fuck You. If they want to spend their dying days creating, they'll do it anyway. If they want to spend their last moments writing in a terrified fervor hoping that maybe those last words will help to cover funeral costs instead of spending time with their families, they'll probably do something equally unlikely to help, like praying, instead.

    26. Re:Now I know who to blame by HungryHobo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      define "generally available".
      If some college student working at one of the publishers he sends it to leaks it in a torrent has it been made "generally available"?
      If he then sues that publisher and the draft becomes part of publicly available court records has it been made "generally available"?
      What about changes between publications?
      If at age 10 I write a short story and the teacher pins it on the classroom wall for everyone to read or it gets included in some student publication and at age 20 I decide to flesh it out into a better written longer short story will I still have copyright?
      How big does the change have to be to get my 10 years back?

    27. Re:Now I know who to blame by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      But that's just a nonsense. The copyright on works expire every day. Yes, 95 years and all the various other copyright periods are a long time. Far longer then they should be in my opinion. But they are not "in effect... non-expiring".

    28. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now I know who to blame for the demise of the public domain. It's all her fault! Get her! I've got my pitchfork. j/k

      No no, you got it all backwards. This is what happens when the chain from the kitchen is too long. As much as I would like to put the blame on her, it's her mans fault for not taking appropriate measures.

    29. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why offtopic?

    30. Re:Now I know who to blame by Rakarra · · Score: 2, Informative

      When a copyright is retroactively extended every 20 years for an additional 20 years, they really do become "non-expiring."

    31. Re:Now I know who to blame by Rakarra · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, the fact is, few works are worth millions and millions of dollars to an author. An author may reach the end of his productive career, and all of his works taken together may earn him a couple thousand dollars a month. He deserves that couple of thousand, IMO. More, if he dies a short time after publication, his estate should be entitled to something.

      Why? Why should the estate get anything from the public (copyright is, after all, justified (and justifiable) taking from the public) for years after the author died? What did they do to earn this continued revenue stream, again, courtesy of the American public?

    32. Re:Now I know who to blame by Fafnir43 · · Score: 1

      No, max(author's lifetime, 25 years) would be reasonable. Just because since there are a few cases in which extending copyright past the author's death is justifiable doesn't mean it's still justifiable when the author has already profited from their work for seventy years.

      --
      To know recursion, you must first know recursion.
    33. Re:Now I know who to blame by mirkob · · Score: 1

      just to repeat myself from other copyright posts...

      the original copyright was a monopoly granted from the English crown to the corporation to avoid "pirating" independent printer.

      the intent of the copyright adopted in the USA was to promote creation and innovation.

      at this time everywhere the copyright is reverting to his original despicable form.

      the time limit on copyright should only have one purpose, encourage creators of a good creation to produce other good product.

      not make sure the retirement pension for his nephew

      a professional sf book writer in many essays about copyright drm ecc evaluated that, for a professional book author a copyright of 40 years is about right (do not remember the eventual post mortem part but you should read all his essay yourself here: http://baens-universe.com/authors/Eric_Flint bottom first)

      I'm with you about the fact that the bulk of the protection should to the authors and not the corporation who own them!!!!

    34. Re:Now I know who to blame by SlashWombat · · Score: 1

      Personally, I feel corporations should NOT have any rights with regard to copyright. The recording industry ESPECIALLY have abused copyright when they effectively rob the copyright of most performers when they "contract" to publish/distribute/promote the performers works. As to the length of copyright, it used to be 28 years from first publication ... that was certainly long enough, especially in todays fast paced world!

    35. Re:Now I know who to blame by Dunkirk · · Score: 1

      I'm a fan of short copyright periods with renewal, but it seems like there ought to be a cost involved. If you consider, say, The Dark Side of the Moon, you can see that some works are going to generate money till the end of time. For something like this, it would seem fair to let the record company extend the copyright a little, but that would have to be balanced, say, an increasing tax schedule or something. After all, part of the point of copyright is for the work to pass into the public domain.

      --
      Acts 17:28, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being."
    36. Re:Now I know who to blame by 1u3hr · · Score: 3, Informative
      There are very few authors, musicians, etc., who actually own the copyright to their work.

      Wrong. Most writers certainly DO own the copyright to their work. Even journalists. The publisher has the right to publish it, and keeps most of the profit, but usually even those rights expire after the book goes out of print, or for journalists, a short time after the original publication (which is why columnists can publish books collecting or based on their columns).

      Just look at the copyright notices on a book: almost always it lists the author's name.

    37. Re:Now I know who to blame by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      Plus, any reasonably short copyright term tied to the author's lifetime is incentive to off the author.

      Of course it isn't. The (original) publisher has exclusive rights to publish only as long as the copyright is good. When the copyright expires, it's public domain, and ANYONE can publish it. And if you were one of these public domain publishers, would you murder best-selling authors so you can publish cheap editions of their books, knowing that all the other publishers would equally be able to do so, without becoming liable for life sentences? A lot easier and safer to read the obituaries and pick off books by authors who died of natural causes.

    38. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lifetime is generally unfair to a lot of authors - if the old dude wrote his greatest work only days, months, or two or three years before croaking, he and his estate make very little.

      What is the lifetime of Warner Brothers or Paramount? Works for hire owned by (potentially) immortal corporate entities would have a very long copyright term.

      If you can't make money off of something after 28 years you're incompetent and should get out of the way. Even patents are only 17 years. I think a 14+14 year copyright term (the second only being given if explicitly request by the owner) should be sufficient.

    39. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is, WHO OWNS MOST COPYRIGHT TODAY?!?!?!

      So what? Individual copyright owners need protection and education against thieves. That so many would rather roll over and play dead than stand up for themselves is the problem..

    40. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 1

      no,
      no,
      new edition not in PD*,
      you'd have copyright on the new one.

      *How much a work has to be changed for it to be considered new is already defined as regards sending copies of newly-published books to a deposit library. If you wouldn't have had to send a new copy to the national deposit library, you don't get to restart the copyright timer.

      --
      FGD 135
    41. Re:Now I know who to blame by mcubed · · Score: 1

      The problem being that if the book goes into the public domain immediately upon the author's death, what's the publisher's incentive to make a large up-front payment?

      How many publishers would be willing even to publish, let alone pay a lot of money for the rights to, a book by an aged or ill author? Just wait till the author kicks the bucket, then everything is public domain. Age becomes a disincentive for everyone involved, author and publisher alike.

      --
      "No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality;..."
    42. Re:Now I know who to blame by Kashgarinn · · Score: 1

      50+ years? Really?

      If copyright was used as originally intended, to disallow other businesses/underground operators to copy and sell an item for profit, then fine.

      It's now being used to attack normal people doing normal things. Can we limit copyright so that a normal person cannot get sued for copyright violations?

      The problem with "pirating" is one of business having to adapt to the times, not get a license, in the form of "copyright", from the government to attack its citizens.

      Today, everyone is a potential criminal, from Prince Charles and his sons (don't u think they have Ipods?), the CEOs of the **AA and their children, and YOUR family and friends.

      It's a stupid system if it is allowed to go beyond attacking the wholesale pirating of wares.

      - I would like to moderate it so that no citizen can be attacked, I would also like to moderate it so that if items are unavailable from the owner of copyright, then it is entered into public domain. gladly Google is paving the way forward with the latter. No government official has seen in himself the victim of attacks yet to do the former.

    43. Re:Now I know who to blame by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      There's less incentive to create if someone else will just profit from it freely... right?

      There's another side to that coin: When copyright expires (especially if it expires early) in a particular work, there's more of an incentive for hundreds of new authors to create hundreds of derivative works that they can profit from. We can presume that authors motivated by money will tend to produce works that society values (so they can get paid).

      In order for society to benefit just as much from the original author, the original copyright would have to encourage him to produce hundreds of new or derivative works.

      There's a balance here, and people often only talk about one side of it.

    44. Re:Now I know who to blame by GreggBz · · Score: 1

      It's ONLY legitimate purpose is to prevent other people from plegiarising and/or profiting from an original work.

      Which, in fact, encourages creativity and free expression.

    45. Re:Now I know who to blame by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      A lifetime is generally unfair to a lot of authors - if the old dude wrote his greatest work only days, months, or two or three years before croaking, he and his estate make very little.

      Copyright was never intended to help or protect authors - it was intended to enrich the rest of society. The idea was to give artists an incentive to turn out more stuff. Stuff that would, ultimately, become public domain - it would belong to the world as a whole. That was the whole reason it existed - to enrich everyone, not just one person.

      Which means fairly short limits are necessary. Sure, it's nice for the artist to make some money... But the main goal is to get the art into the public domain as soon as possible.

      And why would we want to pay the artist's estate? Is the estate somehow going to turn out more artistic works?

      Current copyright law turns all that upside-down. Current copyright law is all about making the artist (or the corporation that owns the artis's IP) money. To hell with society... To hell with the world... We want our cash!

      And fairness? Who cares whether it is fair? Is it fair that I have to pay hundreds of dollars every month for medical insurance just to make sure I remain healthy, so I can keep earning a paycheck? Is it fair for someone to lose their job because a banker thousands of miles away got greedy? Is it fair for these mega-corporations to keep buying up their competitors and put all the local shops out of business?

      Since when is our government/economy worried about fairness?

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    46. Re:Now I know who to blame by MikeBabcock · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Copyright isn't and was never designed to be an asset of any kind. Art works are to be considered part of the public good, and to encourage their creation, we hold our breath and let the artists have temporary Copyright despite the stench.

      Copyright is to encourage the creation of public domain accessible works, which should be free to all within a reasonable time to enrich society and culture.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    47. Re:Now I know who to blame by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Agreed. The whole issue is moot if we offer Copyright as a fixed term after publication of the work.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    48. Re:Now I know who to blame by amoeba1911 · · Score: 1

      No, its ONLY legitimate purpose is to prevent other people from profiting from an original work long enough to allow the creator to be rewarded.

      As for the old dude who created the original work right before he died: he's not going to be rewarded no matter the length of the copyright, so extending the copyright past his death is an insult to the purpose of copyright. Rewarding dead people at the expense of the living isn't the purpose of copyright.

    49. Re:Now I know who to blame by LooTze · · Score: 1

      I thought it was the lifetime of the author not of the owner of the copyright. Therefore, the lifetime of the corporation should not relevant.

    50. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "But that's just a nonsense. The copyright on works expire every day."

      No, they don't. Not in some countries for a while now. Not when copyright is arbitrarily and retroactively extended beyond the expiry date that applied when the work was originally created. In the U.S., there won't be any new works entering the public domain (unless people explicitly put them there) until 2019.

      How much do you want to bet that before 2019 some enterprising legislator will come up with some dubious reason for extending copyright terms yet again, and "stealing" another 20 years from the public domain?

    51. Re:Now I know who to blame by zaffir · · Score: 1

      I don't know about everyone else, but I found it kinda odd that PROTECTING THE INTERESTS OF THE PUBLIC AT LARGE was something that almost didn't happen, and it took a hell of a lot of work by one woman to actually get any sort of recognition of fair use in the law.

      --
      "Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway
    52. Re:Now I know who to blame by Xabraxas · · Score: 1

      A lifetime is generally unfair to a lot of authors - if the old dude wrote his greatest work only days, months, or two or three years before croaking, he and his estate make very little.

      That's a problem how? You can't use money when you're dead and the estate didn't create the work, the author did. Why should the estate continue to collect for doing nothing? Hereditary wealth isn't something we should be promoting, especially in the US. It doesn't lend itself well to a meritocracy.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
    53. Re:Now I know who to blame by ozphx · · Score: 1

      Oh shit, those nasty all-caps corporations man! Perhaps we really should limit investment and economies of scale to one man's personal wealth.

      While I am here, I would also like to formally opt out of replying to any hippy tripe you follow up with.

      --
      3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
    54. Re:Now I know who to blame by amoeba1911 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why would people bother getting their dead relative's manuscript published? Why do people like drawing things? Why do people like singing music? Why do people like performing plays? Why do people express themselves artistically? Why do people enjoy art?

      Answer: People naturally create art without any financial incentive. Look at remote tribes in Africa singing, telling stories, decorating things with drawings, that's all art for the sake of art, there's no financial reward involved.

      When you get down to it, art is not a business. The moment art was made into a business was the death of art. Today there is no more art, there's people who think if there's no profit then why should I bother? Art for profit is not art, it might as well just be fart.

    55. Re:Now I know who to blame by nyctopterus · · Score: 1

      You know what, everyone on slashdot loves to keep repeating this, but things change. It's obvious that copyright has become a sort of property right. If you want to change copyright, argue on its merits, not on what it was "designed" to do originally.

    56. Re:Now I know who to blame by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is what it always was.

      Society at large are bearing the burden of those creators. And if we're going to bear that burden, we should be able to maximize our return on investment by distributing the creations as far and wide as we can.

      Copyright destroys value. It's effect is to systematically remove access to knowledge and culture from the majority of people in the world.

      We need a different mechanism that doesn't destroy the value of the creation as a side effect of calculating the reward due for the creative act. If we agree on one, we'll all get richer. Societies that refuse to do so will have a population that are stupid and ignorant compared to the global average, and will be on a one way ticket to third world status.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    57. Re:Now I know who to blame by Endo13 · · Score: 1

      Personally, I could justify limiting all copyright to 50 years, period.

      I could justify limiting it to 5 years, period.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    58. Re:Now I know who to blame by Convector · · Score: 1

      When you publish in a scientific journal, you typically have to transfer the copyright (but not other rights) to the journal before they can publish it.

      From the American Geophysical Union's copyright transfer form:

      The Copyright Law enacted in 1978 requires the American Geophysical Union to obtain specific rights to articles published. This legal requirement does not alter in any way the long-standing relationship between AGU and its authors, nor does it change the philosophy behind our practice of copyrighting our journals and books.

      AGU's philosophy recognizes the need to ensure that authors have a say in how their works are used and the necessity to foster broad dissemination of scientific literature while protecting the viability of the publication system. Authors still retain all proprietary rights other than copyright (such as patent rights), the right to present the material orally, the right to reproduce figures, tables, and extracts properly cited, and the right to deny subsequent commercial use of the paper."

    59. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the Constitution is on your side, assuming you're a US citizen. That is exact purpose of all "intellectual property":

      Article I, Section 8, Paragraph 8:

      "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;"

      IANAL, but it would seem that present laws allowing the persistence of copyrights beyond the lifetime of the creator constitutes a violation of the letter of the law in this case since the grant of exclusivity is to the creator, not them and their progeny. The stipulation of "limited times" is the debatable part for me.

      I believe the fair use allowance is a valuable one, but the crappy baggage that came with it really overshadows the value therein.

    60. Re:Now I know who to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition, with the end of copyright registration, it's no longer generally possible to track down who holds the copyright on a work, or whether or not it has fallen into the public domain.

    61. Re:Now I know who to blame by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      The United States was created because Britain tried to enforce shit like this, and the people of the New World didn't think it was right, so they fought against it.

      You have forgotten the face of your father, and created these calamities. You should be ashamed. You will end your days whimpering in the dark because of your lack of vision, and so will I. Thanks.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    62. Re:Now I know who to blame by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      What about the case of the guy down the street running a bootleg DVD operation out of his garage? Should he not be able to be "attacked"?

      I think the better option is shorter, multiple copyright terms. Perhaps 28 years from date of publication plus another 28 that you have to register and pay a $1 fee for. And in order to claim copyright, you have to register your work before it will be recognized, to aid in getting works into the Public Domain.

    63. Re:Now I know who to blame by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      An author may reach the end of his productive career, and all of his works taken together may earn him a couple thousand dollars a month.

      That's an argument for a copyright duration at least as long as the duration of retirement, about 50 years I'd say.

      He deserves that couple of thousand, IMO. More, if he dies a short time after publication, his estate should be entitled to something.

      So allow that 50 years of copyright to survive the author. He can have one, maybe two lazy generations of heirs before they have to start earning for themselves.

      But enough of this codified so-called "incentive" for people to continue producing new works after their death. They are entertainers; they are not saints able to perform post mortem miracles.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    64. Re:Now I know who to blame by asdfndsagse · · Score: 1

      And now tell me how extending the copyright of works already created "promote[s] the science and the useful arts"...

    65. Re:Now I know who to blame by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      I believe the fair use allowance is a valuable one, but the crappy baggage that came with it really overshadows the value therein.

      And if the compromise was fair use for lifetime+, and they're reneging on fair use while becoming lifetime++....

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    66. Re:Now I know who to blame by Burkin · · Score: 1

      Well at least it was somewhat better than the European Union version which actually revived the copyrights on works that went in to the public domain when they retroactively extended copyrights.

    67. Re:Now I know who to blame by Gerzel · · Score: 1

      The problem with non-lifetime copyright dates is that you have to show when the thing was first published.

      This either requires a lot of legal battles or registration.

      There is a system of registration already in place(and no sending it to your self in a sealed envelope for the post date doesn't work), but it is prohibitivly expensive especially when it comes to works that may or may not be worth that much.

    68. Re:Now I know who to blame by Gerzel · · Score: 0, Troll

      No.

      The US was created for many reasons, one big one being because Britain didn't want us anymore(at least not enough to take us). Copyright law was not on the lips of the founding fathers. Tax law, and Torture, and lack of Due Process, where on their lips.

    69. Re:Now I know who to blame by jbengt · · Score: 1
      To be fair, there was no mention in GP of what copyright was ' "designed" to do originally', which was to grant a monopoly to the King's (or Queen's) favored publisher - nothing at all to do with the author.

      He was arguing what is the only legitimate use of copyright law in the USA. That is, that an otherwise unlawful grant of temporary monopoly is allowed in the Constitution specifically in order to promote the sciences and the useful arts.

    70. Re:Now I know who to blame by jbengt · · Score: 1

      The recording industry has abused copyright, but you can hardly say that they've robbed performers of copyright, when performances are not copyrightable - only the authors, composers, and recorders can copyright their respective works, not the performers. (at least currently in the US)

    71. Re:Now I know who to blame by jbengt · · Score: 1

      Patents can be prohibitively expensive, but copyrights are easy. Currently, anytime you fix something, like writing a letter, or photographing your nephew, or recording your son'd piano recital, you automatically have a copyright on it. If someone violates your copyright, you won't be able to sue for big bucks easily without registering it first, but that's pretty painless and cheap, too.

    72. Re:Now I know who to blame by sorak · · Score: 1

      Also, that time limit keeps getting extended...I think there might be a famous rat involved, but, the point is, that if a work was written in 1938, and you lived ten years, after that, you might have expected it to go into the public domain in 1976 (died in 1948+28 years). Instead, it was extended to 1998, under the copyright act, and has since been extended to 2018.

      If you wrote something today, and lived another ten years, then how much would the time limit have been extended by 2089 (the date at which the item should enter the public domain, under current law)?

    73. Re:Now I know who to blame by sorak · · Score: 1

      From Article 1, Section 8 of the constitution:

      To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

      The purpose of the so-called intellectual properties laws, is not to further the concept that a person can own a set of phrases or ideas, but to promote the arts and sciences. This was not a fairness issue, or a property issue. This was purely about encouraging writers to write and inventors to invent.

      Intangible properties, such as IP are inherently different from physical properties. So much so, in fact, that the document that forms the basis of our legal system explicitly states that IPs cannot be held in perptuity.

    74. Re:Now I know who to blame by u-235-sentinel · · Score: 1

      So then why is Mickey Mouse not part of the public domain and is still a copyrighted image?

      It was my understanding that last year it was supposed to drop into the public domain

      --
      Has Comcast disconnected your Internet account? Same here. You can read about it at http://comcastissue.blogspot.com
    75. Re:Now I know who to blame by idontgno · · Score: 1

      All the things you mention are MATERIAL THINGS.

      Really.

      stocks

      Do you mean, little pieces of paper with the words "STOCK CERTIFICATE" printed on them? Tangible, yes. Valuable, no, unless you really really really have to wipe your butt. Oh, the financial value of those? Completely intangible and immaterial. A number in a computer. A fantasy, supported by the biggest case of mutual willing suspension of disbelief ever.

      wealth

      More of the same. Please display the tangible representation of your net wealth. (I'd atwitter with suspense at what the physical manifestation of a negative net worth would be.)

      houses

      Ah, sticks of shaped pine and slabs of reformed pulverized stone. Or maybe property? Rights to a piece of ground? Which rights? Mineral? Water? Unfettered use of the topographic plane surface of the plat? (I mean, that's how property is described, right? A 2-dimensional descriptor.) That's tangible. No, wait, it isn't.

      boats

      OK, that's tangible. That's material. Copyright can't be compared to nautical vessels. Check.

      Really, you are naively neglecting one critical fact: "ownership" is a fiction, mutually agreed, bound by social contract, and protected by state force. Pretending any kind of property ownership is "natural" and "inherent" is self-deluded, and arguing it is equally deluded or misleading. Therefore, if society has decided that intellectual property is property, you are welcome to disagree as long as you're willing to be wrong, because you aren't making the rules. I'm sure the squatter on the back acres of some rich guy's property would agree with you, because they also disagree with society's definition of property (in this case, "real estate"), but that doesn't make them right either.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    76. Re:Now I know who to blame by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      And why would we want to pay the artist's estate? Is the estate somehow going to turn out more artistic works?

      The two surviving Beatles did finish one of John Lennon's unpublished works. The Lennon estate could have sat on it if it couldn't get a cut.

      Fairness wouldn't tie author's death into the duration at all. I'd rather grant an estate the right to extensions than tie copyright duration to anyone's lifetime (but not if the estate is implicated in the death).

      And no ex post facto extensions for anyone. Whatever duration was in force when you published is the one you should be stuck with. That would put an end to the extensions for Steamboat Willie, even for foreign works that enjoy longer protection in their countries of origin if they were willingly published here under a lesser term (only imported copies enjoy term of country of origin).

      Current durations ensure that public copies will degrade before copyright expires, effectively ensuring no copies survive long enough to enter the public domain and only originals retained by the original publisher exist from which all PD copies must be produced. This creates a situation where public domain works are too easily hoarded by the estates of their creators and withheld from the public or destroyed rather than released.

      So finally, no work may enjoy a copyright duration longer than the medium to which it was affixed. Press a DVD designed to degrade in 48 hours after the seal is broken, then your work is considered published the moment the seal is broken and its copyright is only good for the calendar year in which the seal is broken (because copyright is measured in units no smaller than a year, so break your seals on New Years Eve and copy them New Years Day). Fast food placemats and other instant-garbage can be copied the next calendar year instead of 95 years later by corporate copyright duration.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    77. Re:Now I know who to blame by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      I agree with pretty much everything you said... Except that I still don't see why we ought to be worrying about an artist's estate.

      And why would we want to pay the artist's estate? Is the estate somehow going to turn out more artistic works?

      The two surviving Beatles did finish one of John Lennon's unpublished works. The Lennon estate could have sat on it if it couldn't get a cut.

      So, the estate has possession of unpublished works. And the surviving Beatles want to finish it up and publish it. And the estate is sitting on it because it isn't getting a cut of the copyright.

      What's to stop the estate from writing a contract with the surviving Beatles to get a cut of all royalties? Is there some strange clause in the existing copyright law that prevents someone from creating such a contract?

      If there's something useful in the estate that can be published, by all means, publish it. But then the copyright wouldn't belong to Joe Deadguy, it'd belong to whoever got around to publishing it.

      I don't see why Joe Deadguy's kids are somehow entitled to whatever profits his previous artistic works generated. If they want to make money from artistic works they ought to publish something new - either their own works, or something from the estate that hasn't been published yet.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    78. Re:Now I know who to blame by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      So, the estate has possession of unpublished works. And the surviving Beatles want to finish it up and publish it. And the estate is sitting on it because it isn't getting a cut of the copyright.

      What's to stop the estate from writing a contract with the surviving Beatles to get a cut of all royalties? Is there some strange clause in the existing copyright law that prevents someone from creating such a contract?

      It would be wrong to allow the estate to sit on the only exploitable public domain copies. That's hoarding works from the public domain and grants the estate the power to destroy the works rather than be compelled to release them by the surviving Beatles or anyone else. A destroyed work never enters the public domain. Bankruptcy protects against seizure of all profits enjoyed by copyright of a willfully destroyed work.

      If there's something useful in the estate that can be published, by all means, publish it. But then the copyright wouldn't belong to Joe Deadguy, it'd belong to whoever got around to publishing it.

      Copyright vests in the author of the work, not its publisher. Sometimes it vests in the collective authorship of the work, others in the corporation that commissioned the work (the latter uncoupled from anyone's lifetime). To vest it in the publisher absent a living author extends the copyright. Even an unpublished work eventually becomes public domain anyway (but again results in hoarding with the potential for extinguishment).

      But a last will and testament may permit a deceased person to continue publishing. I address a scenario about this in another subthread.

      I don't see why Joe Deadguy's kids are somehow entitled to whatever profits his previous artistic works generated. If they want to make money from artistic works they ought to publish something new - either their own works, or something from the estate that hasn't been published yet.

      I wouldn't say all his descendants deserve the royalties, but at least those that were his spouse or legal dependents at the time of his death, including those conceived ante mortem (not post mortem by frozen gametes or zygotes as that's using offspring as a profit tool) until the natural expiry of the copyright, presumably meted out by a trust to those that are under 18. That at least encourages continued production of works past retirement age until death, for which society will still eventually benefit.

      Assuming copyright duration is meaningfully finite, i.e. within the lifetime of one's peers.

      (This is where the slope starts getting slippery and where we've already slid down once, where we now allow copyrights to works produced as a newborn to survive the author's offspring.)

      I'm more concerned about what happens to copyrighted works created by someone who died without any heirs and unassigned by any will, especially if foul play is involved. I don't know what happens in that situation now. Do works revert to the state which can sue for infringement? Do they fall into a legal limbo where they cannot be published until they expire, or where one can republish because no one survives to challenge (de facto public domain, similar to the reasoning behind republishing abandoned works)?

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    79. Re:Now I know who to blame by Teancum · · Score: 1

      BTW, in a "work for hire" or something where a corporation actually owns the copyright (instead of just the "author" under license to a publisher), the term of a copyright is simply 75 years. This is the case of collaborative works like most motion pictures that are clearly owned by a company for liability reasons alone.

      I do happen to agree with you on the fuzzy nature of the lifetime + arbitrary extra constant for copyrighted works, and simply saying that the limit is 50 years works for most people.

      The most ingenuous solution I heard was to charge a filing fee of $1 * 10 ^ (decades of copyright term).... where every ten years you have to pay ten times the previous decade for copyright protection. The fee is payable in advance, so somebody could also arbitrarily establish their own copyright term ahead of time. The first 20 years or so would be free... for those who don't want to bother with filing for copyright protection or are of limited financial means. Seriously, if you haven't made money off of something in 20 years, do you really need copyright protection?

      This way, if Disney or George Lucas want to put incredibly long copyrights on their works it becomes a business decision and the money goes into the general revenue fund rather than the campaign funds of their favorite senators. Putting Star Wars under 100 years of copyright protection would cost George Lucas about $10 million or so. Perhaps it might be something he'd consider, but it would also be obvious about things of this nature and wouldn't be a typical copyright term.

    80. Re:Now I know who to blame by Teancum · · Score: 1

      I believe this to be a mis-reading of the copyright act that is cited here, as the law doesn't really require the "American Geophysical Union" to obtain the actual copyright via transfer, as a simple legal license to the content (proprietary, exclusive, irrevokable) could effectively do the same thing that is done with 99% of the content that they publish.

      It is situations like this where it is some lawyer who got scared because of some potential problems with content licensing and insisted on formal copyright transfer instead. Again, the law doesn't require this, but it does help clean up some legal loopholes that are rarely an issue anyway. The largest is if the original author re-publishes a paper in another journal without formal copyright transfer, it becomes merely a civil contract violation case rather than something which invokes copyright law.

      The above has the copyright transferred, but the author retains a license to that content.

    81. Re:Now I know who to blame by Teancum · · Score: 2, Informative

      No.

      The US was created for many reasons, one big one being because Britain didn't want us anymore(at least not enough to take us). Copyright law was not on the lips of the founding fathers. Tax law, and Torture, and lack of Due Process, where on their lips.

      This isn't quite true either. Admittedly copyright was not the leading issue of the day, but abuses of crown copyright (including "eternal copyright" and having the legal code copyright protected and exclusively printed by a single "licensed" printing house) were among the various "abuses" that did trigger the revolution against England.

      The stamp act in particular was one that incensed the publishers... where a stamp had to be paid for (and affixed to) anything created in a printing house. This also included schedules for certain items including the Bible that were simply prohibited from being published in America.

      The first Bible printed in America was a translation of the King James Version of the Bible in one of the Algonquian languages. An English-language edition of the Bible didn't even get published in America until after the Declaration of Independence, and even then it was considered an act of rebellion. The British printers wanted the revenue from bible production, which is one of the reasons for this law. The reason I'm mentioning the Bible in particular is due to what should be obvious religious influences in the USA and how much publication of the scriptures is linked to political freedoms in general, and how absurd it sounds to be arrested for simply the act of copying the contents of the Bible... even a simple excerpt that today would be considered fair-use.

      I should also note that copyright issues were important enough to the founders of the American Republic that the copyright clause was put into the very first article of the Constitution and put very strong limitations on its implementation that were designed to explicitly prohibit abuses as seen by English copyright law. In addition, one of the very first acts of the first Congress of the USA under the current constitution was the U.S. Copyright Act of 1790. This law was written by many of the original framers of the constitution and also set the model of what they desired in terms of copyright law. IMHO, this federal employee that is being honored by the original post is an example of somebody who clearly did not study, or really understand the abuses that lead to the copyright clause or why the original copyright act was written.

    82. Re:Now I know who to blame by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      Why should copyright be any different?

      I know current Supreme Court jurisprudence is to the contrary, but maybe because the Constitution explicitly states the sole purpose of copyright is to be a utilitarian purpose: "to promote the useful Arts and Sciences."

      If lengthening copyright terms does not promote, then it is unconstitutional.

      The problem is that this is a political question and will be dismissed as nonjusticiable if the courts ever had to decide this issue.

      In effect, unless Congress extends copyright by some patently-to-everyone ridiculous amount like life+300yrs, the courts will consistently say "political question doctrine, we defer to Congress."

    83. Re:Now I know who to blame by jesterzog · · Score: 1

      The purpose of copyright isn't to enrich the creator and his heirs, it's to encourage the creator to create more.

      I generally agree but one small correction -- I think it's to encourage people to publish more. A problem before copyright existed was that authors were creating, but many were hoarding their work and being very careful who they showed it to (perhaps for a price), lest it get leaked. By providing the temporary monopoly over the work, there was much greater incentive for people to release it into the open where other people could access it.

      Other than that, I'm for shorter copyright terms all the way. I'm completely in favour of one initial term of perhaps 15-20 years, plus up to one extension for which the copyright holder must explicitly state their interest in holding the copyright.

      I don't really care about duplicating Steamboat Willy, but I think others should be able to. I also find it concerning how rare works without traceable owners are being lost into obscurity because projects such as Gutenberg aren't allowed to reproduce them, as a direct result of mega-corps such as Disney not wanting to forfeit the ownership on their very small minority of copyrighted material.

  2. Established in USC, not the law by QuessFan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    IANAL As a law librarian, it's always my understanding the 4 fair uses tests were already well establish by a large body of case laws. The congress merely codify them into the United State Code explicitly. Of course, the congress could had choose other directions if they wanted to, but they didn't. I haven't read the article yet. I am sure she is instrumental in the codification of the case laws into statutory language, but don't oversell it.

    1. Re:Established in USC, not the law by stinerman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The infallible resource has your back:

      The doctrine only existed in the U.S. as common law until it was incorporated into the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. Â 107

    2. Re:Established in USC, not the law by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So in return for a codification of Fair Use, we got lifetime plus 50 years.
      Excuse me if I don't celebrate Ringer's monumental achievement.

      I guess the European Union recently celebrated her ground breaking success by passing life + 70.
      But shame on them for not going with their original plan and making it life + 95
      http://news.google.com/news?um=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=european+union+copyright+70

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:Established in USC, not the law by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1, Insightful

      hey it's ok, only in the EU are we retarded enough to re-copyright stuff that had already fallen into public domain

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    4. Re:Established in USC, not the law by Rakarra · · Score: 4, Funny

      hey it's ok, only in the EU are we retarded enough to re-copyright stuff that had already fallen into public domain

      Oh please. Here in the US we've been out-retarding you for years.

    5. Re:Established in USC, not the law by mcubed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lifetime + 50 was a prerequisite for becoming party to the Berne Convention, which the U.S. was going to do anyway. Berne sets the minimum copyright term as lifetime + 50. So it wasn't Ringer's fault.

      --
      "No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality;..."
    6. Re:Established in USC, not the law by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      Oh no, the US did that two with the URAA of the GATT. This Act removed works from the public domain and placed them back into copyright.

  3. So We Got... by akpoff · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "fair use," a not clearly defined defense, meaning you get sued and have to prove you didn't infringe. Copyright holders got life + 50 years and no need to file.

    Faust got a better deal.

    1. Re:So We Got... by diodeus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then Sonny Bono came along and really screwed it up. He did it all for Micky Mouse.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act

    2. Re:So We Got... by Comboman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      At least we go something. The Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act of 1998 gave copyright holders an extra 20 years, and we got nothing.

      --
      Support Right To Repair Legislation.
    3. Re:So We Got... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      <TommyChong>

      Whoa. Karma's like... a tree, man.

      </TommyChong>

  4. A "heroine"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My heroes are rather the big bearded one for the GNU GPL and Lawrence Lessig for Creative Commons. The mess left by this "heroine" obviously needs to be cleaned up, without a flourishing public domain innovation is doomed. Life plus 50 years, come on...

    1. Re:A "heroine"? by ImaLamer · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think you are confusing everything that has happened since her work with her work (Sonny Bono for example). She struck a balance and she should be applauded for that.

      I'm sorry - but we just can't refuse someone's right to protect their work. Even the name Linux is trademarked, most GPL code is in fact copyrighted - it's just given out under a unrestrictive license (so say we, not the GPL enemies).

      But this line; without a flourishing public domain innovation is doomed... shows some ignorance. If everything is public domain there is no reason to innovate. Is it not the restrictions on everything else out there that became the motivating factors behind the GPL et. al.? And if you can just use whatever whenever, why create something better.

      It can't be denied that patents and copyright keep the mind moving forward. Otherwise we'd have stagnation. (I'm coming off as a Disney lover - but even in their work you see how using public domain stories [the first 20 years of Disney movies] let them rest on that without writing anything new for a loooong time.)

    2. Re:A "heroine"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Basically she took something that was more or less working, broke it, and she should be applauded for that? GPL'ed code and works under Creative Commons are indeed copyrighted but the very reasons that made these license appear is the overrestrictive copyright in the first place. Because the "balance that was struck and that should be applauded" had, or rather is in itself, a serious bug.

      As for "if everything is public domain there's no reason to innovate", short answer: why is FreeBSD still improving? (let's avoid nitpicking on the slight difference between the uberliberal BSD license and public domain please) Long answer: Fire up eMule and look for "Public Domain Enclosing the Commons of the Mind" and "Tales from the Public Domain bound by law". The first one is a pdf file, the second a cbz comic book and they explain why public domain is indeed vital for innovation and how it's being continuously undermined much better than I could.

      Finally, regarding patents you're right to some extent. But when you see that some people are currently patenting triple clicks, page up and page down keys let alone living beings if you're not worried by that critical bug and don't feel the need for a serious reform I think there's not much I can do.

    3. Re:A "heroine"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry - but we just can't refuse someone's right to protect their work.

      Sure we can. Because it's not a right. Name one thing an author is allowed to do with his copyrighted writings that he isn't allowed to do with something he's previously dedicated to the public domain. And no, putting restrictions on other people doesn't count, because restrictions aren't rights.

      Intellectual property law is a legal invention, not a right. It could be completely eliminated (at least in the US) by an act of Congress. It wouldn't even require a constitutional amendment. The Constitution gives Congress the power to enact intellectual property laws, but it doesn't require them to do so.

      But this line; without a flourishing public domain innovation is doomed... shows some ignorance.

      Perhaps. Maybe innovation can happen despite a flourishing public domain.

      If everything is public domain there is no reason to innovate.

      I can't argue with that logic, mainly because there's no logic there to argue with. I'm trying to see your reasoning there. I really am.

      I will give you this though; you're the first person I've ever heard argue that artificial road blocks and obstacles are actually good for innovation.

      Is it not the restrictions on everything else out there that became the motivating factors behind the GPL et. al.?

      I believe the original poster is not trying to argue that the GPL and Creative Commons are innovative, only that they're trying to fix the broken system that discourages innovation.

      And if you can just use whatever whenever, why create something better.

      If you can just use a wheel, why stick two of them together with an axel? If you can cook over an open fire, why build an enclosure to contain and control the heat? If you can write everything by hand, why create a device that can churn out multiple pages in just a few seconds? If you can send a telegram across long distances, why invent something that allows you to talk over long distances in your own voice?

      Just because you can use something without restriction doesn't mean you don't want to make it better. If you're not allowed to make it better though because you're basing your invention on something restricted, how can you invent it?

      If cooking with fire was restricted by patent or other "intellectual property" laws, only the guy who originally harnessed fire would have been allowed to invent the oven. If writing was outlawed except by a select group of scribes, Gutenberg never would have invented the printing press.

      The same goes for knowledge. If a would-be inventor never learns how to build what he dreamed up because the knowledge he needs to do so is in a book that never gets into his hands because its distribution is limited, he'll never build the thing. Copyright is in effect a restriction on the distribution of knowledge.

      It can't be denied that patents and copyright keep the mind moving forward.

      Sure it can. I deny it right now. Necessity drives invention; patents and copyright don't. They simply provide an incentive to actually create what the mind dreams up.

      They serve their purpose only before the thing gets built. The instant it comes into existence, they're a hindrance, because now there's one more thing in the world that people hypothetically can build upon, but the law prevents them from doing so.

      Still, it's a good compromise. Create a temporary restriction that causes the thing to get built in the first place, then let those restrictions ultimately expire.

      even in their work you see how using public domain stories [the first 20 years of Disney movies] let them rest on that without writing anything new for a loooong time.

      Your own example proves my point. Disney built his empire on those public domain stories. If t

  5. Reguarding by captnbmoore · · Score: 5, Informative

    Previously under the old 1909 law, an author owned the copyright for 28 years from
    the date of publication and unless the copyright was renewed,
    the work entered the public domain, and the author lost any right to royalties.

    That seems a hell of a lot more fair than the in perpetuity that we have now.
    We really should go back to that or life of the author or 20 years which ever comes later.

    --
    The Navy Motto "IF it ain't broke Fix It" "A day is wasted if you don't learn something new"
    1. Re:Reguarding by PPH · · Score: 5, Funny

      But you do understand that the copyright law's intent is to encourage the creation of new works. With life plus 50 years, there are untold numbers of authors dead only 10 or 20 years who might be willing to rise and take a crack at just one more novel.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Reguarding by Robert+Plamondon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The old 28 years + optional renewal was a brilliant system. Abandonware entered the public domain after 28 years. The vast bulk of copyrighted material is abanoned well before this. The tiny fraction of material that's still making money after 28 years could be renewed for another 28. Also, you don't have to hire detectives to find out when an obscure author died, just to figure out whether a work was in the public domain or not. The old system was better.

    3. Re:Reguarding by swillden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We really should go back to that or life of the author or 20 years which ever comes later.

      That would be a good start, but I'd argue that it's really too long.

      The question is: What's the shortest term that would enable most creators to capture most of the potential income from their works? That's what it should be, and not much more.

      The goal is to provide sufficient incentive to produce works, but get the works into the public domain as soon as possible. That's how copyright promotes progress.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re:Reguarding by Dan541 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why should I work again if I can do it once and still get an income.

      We need to look at the benefit of free information. Copyright is detrimental, after 10 years if everything became public domain we would have many books freely accessible online.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    5. Re:Reguarding by Dan541 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Copyright on software should be significantly lower because it becomes obsolete quicker so it needs to enter the public domain sooner for there to be any real benefit.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    6. Re:Reguarding by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      There needs to be a clause saying that the copyright cannot be renewed when the original artist is dead. Otherwise if I sell copyright to something to a company (or person) they can just renew it indefinitely, unless copyright was made non-transferable.

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    7. Re:Reguarding by rodentia · · Score: 1

      Yes!

      For the first time, scholars and reviewers could quote briefly from copyrighted works without having to pay fees.

      Prior to 1909 these arrangements were not unregulated. Often the fees were often nominal or wholly foregone. These fees did not significantly impair the ability of authors to react for and against, or academics to cite, previous work.

      Better yet, in fuller response to the ostensible value of *fair use*, a term of 7 years might be more efficacious.

      --
      illegitimii non ingravare
    8. Re:Reguarding by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      With life plus 50 years, there are untold numbers of authors dead only 10 or 20 years who might be willing to rise and take a crack at just one more novel.

      It's been my experience that having experienced death puts a whole new perspective into an author's new works.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    9. Re:Reguarding by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Yes, but if it's just life, then there is the very real incentive to simply kill the author. In my opinion, a set number of years after registration is better (with the default going to the public commons with an attribution and a date instead).

    10. Re:Reguarding by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1

      Or as I (sort of) said 7 years ago...

      P2P Killed Elvis.

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    11. Re:Reguarding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not the law's only purpose. Copyright also serves to protect the artistic integrity of an artist's work - an import part of getting people to release work.

      By having copyright extend past death, it allows an artist to create a work secure in the knowledge that it won't be corrupted by others.

      As a great example, see "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies." Thanks to the length of copyright, the original Pride and Prejudice has had time to become cemented as the original. No one will confuse the corrupted version as anything other than what it is.

      But if you shorten copyright, that loss of artistic integrity WILL kill people's desires to create works. Most artists don't create art for the money, they create art for the art's sake. Take away that safety to know that their art is protected, and there's no reason to create.

      Copyright isn't just about money, it's also about protecting the work from being taken and abused by people who just want to rip off other people's art.

    12. Re:Reguarding by johannesg · · Score: 1

      There needs to be a clause saying that the copyright cannot be renewed when the original artist is dead. Otherwise if I sell copyright to something to a company (or person) they can just renew it indefinitely, unless copyright was made non-transferable.

      But that would be great! As long as they pay for the privilege... This should be the way to attack this problem: everything under copyright, automatically, for 14 years, and then yearly payments to extend specific copyrights on a year-by-year basis. This way there is an automatic trade off between the value of the product under copyright and the length of its duration.

      The advantages are that there is something in it for everyone: consumers, who see a much richer public domain; producers, who can keep profitable items under copyright forever (and the price should be high enough that this cannot be done at a whim); and the government, who gets a nice new source of income.

      Obviously we need to decide whether the yearly payments should be constant or rising, and we would need a rule saying that once something enters public domain, it stays there (i.e. copyright cannot retroactively be bought back), but the whole idea appears massively appealing to me.

    13. Re:Reguarding by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      But you do understand that the copyright law's intent is to encourage the creation of new works. With life plus 50 years, there are untold numbers of authors dead only 10 or 20 years who might be willing to rise and take a crack at just one more novel.

      And the reason the term was extended is that most of them are in Chicago where they have the highest voting turn out among the dead.
      See? Your legislators do listen to the voters!

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    14. Re:Reguarding by pmarini · · Score: 1

      Also, you don't have to hire detectives to find out when an obscure author died,

      out of interest, would a cryogenically frozen person (or head, as it stands) qualify for a living author?

      (yes, we need to completely rewrite copyright terms, or simply get rid of them)

      --
      Can I put a spell on those who can't spell?
      Your wheels are loose and they're losing their grip, good you're there.
    15. Re:Reguarding by pizzach · · Score: 1

      I think you may be confusing composing and decomposing....

      --
      Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
    16. Re:Reguarding by Ed+Avis · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, but if it's just life, then there is the very real incentive to simply kill the author.

      Somebody suggested that in the future, Disney, movie studios and other big copyright holders will put authors into spacecraft that fly close to the speed of light, thus allowing hundreds of years on earth to pass while the author ages only a few minutes. Copyrights would then never expire. (I can't find the original website set up to draw attention to this looming problem.)

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    17. Re:Reguarding by clickety6 · · Score: 1

      With life plus 50 years, there are untold numbers of authors dead only 10 or 20 years who might be willing to rise and take a crack at just one more novel.

      And as a consequence we ended up with L. Ron Hubbard's "Battlefield Earth" series!

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
    18. Re:Reguarding by Robert+Plamondon · · Score: 1

      The question is: What's the shortest term that would enable most creators to capture most of the potential income from their works? That's what it should be, and not much more.

      Yes, that's the original idea. The old system was good because the author got one more 28-year inning if he felt like going to the trouble of filling out a form. Usually, this didn't happen -- in the author's mind, the work was already abandonware by then. If we'd kept the old system, non-renewed works written in 1981 would be entering the public domain today. To attempt to find the right term, you'd want to look not only at the income curve but the abandonware curve -- how long it took the artist to become convinced that the work had no further financial potential. You can't alter copyright law successfully if you freak out all the artists.

    19. Re:Reguarding by swillden · · Score: 1

      To attempt to find the right term, you'd want to look not only at the income curve but the abandonware curve -- how long it took the artist to become convinced that the work had no further financial potential.

      I disagree. The creators' perception of whether or not they would be able to eke out every last penny isn't relevant. What matters is the creators' perception of the probability that they can get enough money to make it worthwhile. As long as that is high enough, the financial incentive to create/publish is intact, whether or not some pennies might be missed.

      If you're talking about the *political* viability of a potential change, rather than the effectiveness of the change, then that's a different kettle of fish entirely. Particularly since it's media companies you'll have to convince, and there's no way you'll convince Disney that Mickey Mouse should EVER enter the public domain.

      The most politically-viable approach I've seen was Lessig's. He suggested that copyright terms should be in increments of a small number of years (10-15, IIRC), but perpetually renewable, with a gradually-increasing fee schedule. Orphaned or abandoned works would quickly fall into the public domain, but Mickey would be safe forever.

      The only really bad thing about that is that it might get difficult to determine whether a work is still in copyright. In contrast, the original 14+14 system and its 28+14 and 28+28 revisions were fairly predictable. Of course, the current everything-for-forever system is extremely predictable.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    20. Re:Reguarding by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      Yes, but if it's just life, then there is the very real incentive to simply kill the author. In my opinion, a set number of years after registration is better (with the default going to the public commons with an attribution and a date instead).

      But not by the copyright holders - only by the public in general. The last thing the big copyright holders want to have happen is for this to go into the public domain. And I think most of them would rather go after the copyright holders than the artists, when it comes down to it.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    21. Re:Reguarding by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      As a software developer, I agree. If you can't make your millions on a given piece of software in about 5 years, you probably never will. I'm currently thinking of writing my own software (not the work for hire I get paid for), and releasing old versions under BSD or GPL after the 5-year mark. I've currently not written anything of significance that isn't work for hire, so it's a moot point for me right now.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    22. Re:Reguarding by PPH · · Score: 1

      Why should I work again if I can do it once and still get an income.

      Which is what most of the (lazy) authors/composers claim.

      We need to look at the benefit of free information.

      The US Constitution already addresses this:

      "Article I, Section 8, Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

      Look at the creative process from an economics point of view. The day after an author puts his/her pen down, they are no longer an author, but the owner of an asset. This asset has a present value; either the price a publisher is willing to pay for the rights to said asset, or the value of the expected future income stream should they choose to retain it. It is this value that provides the incentive to produce (and publish) that work. Next week, unless this author has begun another work, they are no longer really an author. They do not differ from any other investor who seeks to profit by investing in an income-producing asset.

      Now as any Econ 101 graduate can tell you, the present value of an income stream diminishes greatly as one looks further into the future. Depending on the discount rate, extending a time horizon beyond 20 or 30 years affects the present value very little. So extending the copyright term out further than this is of little value to the author. Publishers aren't stupid either. The lump sum they are willing to pay for a work is closely related to this present value. So pushing its expiration date out doesn't really affect its value now. It is of great value to the investor who finds themselves sitting on a portfolio of works about due to go into the public domain. The difference between an income stream at year 20 with only 5 more years to go is significantly less than one at year 20 with 50 years to go. Or 100. But the clause in the Constitution is specifically targeted at the creators of works, not subsequent investors even if that investor happens to be the author who originally created the work and is now only living off its income. It certainly wasn't written to benefit investors.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    23. Re:Reguarding by RobBebop · · Score: 1

      Based on your argument, Windows XP should be a public domain OS. Do you know how much havoc that would play to Microsoft's ability to charge $100 each time their customers want to "downgrade" to the better OS? It would be terrible.

      Furthermore... it could be argued that if copyright only lasted 5 years then Microsoft and Apple would both get out of the software business and we'd have to rely on Linux (owned by nobody) and Solaris (owned by Sun/Oracle) to run our desktops. This could arguably create a disincentive for people to develop these assets because of the lack of competition from Redmond and Cupertino.

      The fact of the matter is there is no silver bullet. 5 years is actually a devilishly short time... even for software.

      --
      Support the 30 Hour Work Week!!!
    24. Re:Reguarding by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      out of interest, would a cryogenically frozen person (or head, as it stands) qualify for a living author?

      No. Life suspension is a suspension of life. Perhaps you could request restoration of copyright upon restoration of life, but any exploitation of copyright in the meantime would be immune to prosecution.

      Further, one should not be able to extend one's copyrights by traveling at relativistic speeds.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    25. Re:Reguarding by Deefburger · · Score: 1

      The solution is simple. No Copyright. First to market with a salable work will "extract" all the "potential" you can get from any salable product. If nobody is buying, then there is no potential profit. Time to write another one that IS salable. Second, most publishers purchase the copyright as a condition of publication. If the work fails to sell, the publisher can limit the printing to none if they choose. The author, is then left holding a contract and no book, with no recourse to find another publisher. This is a common practice among publishers. With NO COPYRIGHT, this problem never occurs. If another publisher can print work from that author too, and does, then the author can work with them next time, giving them "first to market" exclusivity. Keep in mind that the law protects only the producer of the product, the book, the music, the movie etc. Not the author, unless the author is self publishing. http://blog.mises.org/archives/009681.asp

      --
      Most people are mostly good most of the time.
    26. Re:Reguarding by swillden · · Score: 1

      Second, most publishers purchase the copyright as a condition of publication.

      You're confusing the book industry with the music industry. In books, publishers sign an exclusive contract with the author but the author retains the copyrights. The contracts have clauses that let the author out if the publisher won't publish the book, and even if they didn't the author could sue for relief, and would get it.

      The solution is simple. No Copyright. First to market with a salable work will "extract" all the "potential" you can get from any salable product.

      I don't think that would work very well. What's the incentive of the publisher (or whoever) to spend the money on the tedious and expensive work of editing and proofreading if another publisher can just start pumping out copies? And what's to incent whoever is printing the copies to pay a portion to the author?

      Many authors would still write, because they love it. But most would not write very much, because it would be difficult to make a living from it. They'd have to have another job, and so we would get less of their writing. Musicians are in a different situation, because even if they don't make money by selling copies of their music, they can still charge for performances.

      Maybe they could make a living on donations, or by a Street Performer protocol or something. Or by putting their work on a web site and selling ads. It's possible that it would work out, but I think copyright with appropriate terms is a better solution for READERS.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  6. Re:No, a torrent is not "fair use". by Dun+Malg · · Score: 4, Informative

    what? people might mod down a snide strawman that contributes nothing to the discussion? Let me try!

    "No, strangling a composer with a piano roll is not fair use"

    wow this is fun!

    --
    If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  7. Ya kiding right? by QuantumG · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The 1976 copyright act was what got us into the mess we're in now. It was a huge power grab by the copyright owners. It extended the copyright term, retroactively, to the insane death + 50 years nonsense. It dropped the registration requirement (perhaps the biggest stupidest idea in copyright law ever). It extended both the scope of what was copyrightable and what was considered an exclusive right. Fair use was already common law, so claiming that the 1976 law established it is bullshit. It codified it, that's all. The only thing that the 1976 copyright law did was remotely good was that it clarified that transfer of copyright required a signed document.. something that wasn't actually clear before the law. But hey, Hilter made the trains run on time too.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Ya kiding right? by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Informative

      But hey, Hilter made the trains run on time too.

      That was Mussolini. Hitler was the vegetarian painter.

    2. Re:Ya kiding right? by Kalriath · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Uh, dropping the registration requirement was a requirement of the Berne Convention. Also, I happen to agree with it. Why should individuals who don't have lots of money not be able to copyright a book they wrote? Oh no, only large corporations should be able to do that. If you ask me, the current system around registrations is fine (no registration means you can only claim for actual damages, having a registration causes punitive to come into play)

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    3. Re:Ya kiding right? by QuantumG · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There's definitely something wrong with a system that makes a scribble on a napkin in a bar be automatically copyrighted.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    4. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that depends entirely on quality of the napkin.

    5. Re:Ya kiding right? by swillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why should individuals who don't have lots of money not be able to copyright a book they wrote?

      Red herring. Copyright registration was never difficult or expensive. You just had to mail one sample and a simple form to the Library of Congress. The main reason for the change was because the volume of stuff being sent in got to be unmanageable, mostly because corporations were registering everything. One example that was used in the Congressional debates was McDonald's sending a copy of every one of the paper tray covers they used.

      no registration means you can only claim for actual damages, having a registration causes punitive to come into play

      My understanding is that without registration you can't press a copyright infringement suit at all. That's not a big deal, though, it just means you send in the registration just before you file your suit.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    6. Re:Ya kiding right? by stinerman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why should individuals who don't have lots of money not be able to copyright a book they wrote?

      Do you have any idea what it costs to register a copyright? $35.

      If you can't pony up $35 to register the book that took you several months (if not years) to write, then well...I'm at a loss here. That's like turning down a job solely for the lack of casual Fridays. And if that scenario ever popped up, I'd think that any number of publishers would be willing to advance the guy $35.

    7. Re:Ya kiding right? by brit74 · · Score: 1

      Welcome to Slashdot - where you're either trying to abolish copyright or you're getting compared to Hitler. Has Godwin jumped the shark yet?

    8. Re:Ya kiding right? by stinerman · · Score: 1

      The fix to copyrighting everything is to raise the bar from something minimally creative to a higher standard. Better yet, require no registration for a copyright of a few years, but require registration for something along the lines of 10-15 years.

    9. Re:Ya kiding right? by EvanED · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What about things less than a book though?

      Take The Old New Thing, Raymond Chen's blog. He posts one or two posts each weekday. Should he have to register each of these? At $35/post, that's somewhere around $10,000/year. I don't see any ads on his blog, so I'm not sure he gets any income from it except from the book that's a compilation of entries. If he doesn't copyright each entry, can he copyright the whole blog? What does he send the copyright office for the entries he hasn't written?

      What about entries to my personal blog? Or posts to /.? Do I leave them uncopyrighted?

      I'm not saying that these challenges can't be overcome, but saying that "if you can't afford $35 to register a copyright" leaves a lot of challenges that you need to overcome before it's practical today.

    10. Re:Ya kiding right? by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Welcome to Slashdot, where the libertarians want everything for free.

      If by "for free" you mean "free of legitimized violent force" then, yes, that is what libertarians want.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    11. Re:Ya kiding right? by Bieeanda · · Score: 0

      Here's a quarter. Buy yourself a sense of humor.

    12. Re:Ya kiding right? by OrangeTide · · Score: 3, Funny

      First one to mention Godwin's law loses the debate.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    13. Re:Ya kiding right? by Selanit · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you ask me, the current system around registrations is fine (no registration means you can only claim for actual damages, having a registration causes punitive to come into play)

      But it also has a major downside in the fact that it's not clear who owns what. Also, the lack of registration has extended copyright over basically everything. The grocery list I jotted down this afternoon is subject to copyright. Heck, this post is subject to copyright.

      And it's not as if registration is an inherently bad idea. There are two issues to address with it -- the cost, and the difficulty of processing registrations. The last time we tried mandatory registration, the price was set by the government, and the processing had to be done by hand on paper. We can do better than that.

      I would prefer mandatory registration similar to the way the domain name system works. Thus:

      1. The Copyright Office determines what information is needed for a copyright registration.
      2. The Copyright Office creates a database to track that information.
      3. The Copyright Office does not gather registration information itself. Instead, it accredits registrars to do so.
      4. The accredited copyright registrars compete with one another to offer the lowest prices and the most convenient service for registering copyrights.
      5. An author (or corporation) selects a registrar, pays whatever fee that registrar has settled on, and gives the registrar the required information.
      6. The registrar transmits the information to the Copyright Office, where it is logged in the database.

      In this way, we get a definitive record of who owns which copyright, and exactly when the work was registered. Because the registrars are in competition with one another, we get cheap registration fees and convenient service. And by making registration mandatory once again, we have ensured that copyright is only applied in cases where the author wants it.

      It's obviously not a perfect system. I imagine we'd probably have to deal with fraudulent or competing copyright registrations. But we already have those anyway.

      A bigger concern would be whether or not the market for copyright registration services would be large enough to sustain itself. Copyright terms are very, very long. The lifetime of the author plus 70 years, or 95 years for corporately owned works. Say I'm the owner of H. K. Fessenscheimer & Daughters, Copyright Registrar. If one author registers a book, that's one sale. Then I don't get any more business from that author till they've created something new to copyright, which could take years, or might never happen.

      So in order to generate enough business to sustain a strongly competitive registration market, we'd probably have to require renewal at shorter intervals. Say, a copyright registration lasts for five or ten years, and then you (or your estate) has to re-register. If you don't, then you get a grace period of maybe six months, and then the copyright expires and cannot be renewed.

      Of course, large institutions which do a lot of copyright registrations (corporations, universities) would be free to establish in-house registrars which would handle all registrations and renewals for their own copyrights without involving a third party. Hell, they could even write their own software to do it. Amortized over time, their costs for registering and renewing copyrights would be extremely low.

      I'm sure that the existing copyright holders will scream bloody murder at the idea. They worked really hard to get rid of registration. They wouldn't be happy to see it come back.

      Also, we might not be able to do anything like this without violating the Berne Treaty. So perhaps it's just a fantasy. But I really wish we could.

    14. Re:Ya kiding right? by xjimhb · · Score: 1

      $35 for a book? I wrote a book and (through not making the best choice of publishers) to date I have made less than $20 on it. Some people SPEND money to self-publish, and end up making less than they spent. Should we have to pay another $35 to register a copyright?

      Or a short story. Some markets pay $10, $5, $1 for a story ... should we have to pay $35 to regi9ster a copyright? No way!

      But I agree that the current term is too long ... way too long! Go back to the 28 years or something similar - perhaps the greater of 28 years or life of author. And maybe one FREE renewal, but only by the original author, no estates, trusts, corporate purchasers, or corporations claiming work-for-hire, all those just get the 28 years and that's it. PERIOD!

      Would Disney really go bankrupt if Steamboat Willie dropped into the public domain?

    15. Re:Ya kiding right? by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 3, Informative

      Welcome to Slashdot, where the libertarians want everything for free.

      I wouldn't go that far, but I would say that both sides ignore the need for a good balance between the two extremes. On one side there is a group which want to charge for ever for something, even when they aren't maintaining the work and there is another group who wants everything for free. While there may some libertarians that a anti-property, there are certainly those that a pro-property.

      The introductory text at wikipedia states: "Libertarianism is a term used by a broad spectrum[1] of political philosophies which seek to maximize individual liberty[2] and minimize or abolish the state.[3] There are a number of libertarian view points, ranging from anarchist to small government, and from anti-property to pro-property.".

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    16. Re:Ya kiding right? by unitron · · Score: 1

      With regard to trains running on time, are you sure that you aren't referring to Mussolini? I'm not saying that he had any more success in that area than Hitler, but it is he with whom the phrase "made the trains run on time" is most closely associated.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    17. Re:Ya kiding right? by russotto · · Score: 2, Funny

      With regard to trains running on time, are you sure that you aren't referring to Mussolini? I'm not saying that he had any more success in that area than Hitler, but it is he with whom the phrase "made the trains run on time" is most closely associated.

      Forget it, he's on a roll.

    18. Re:Ya kiding right? by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      why tie in the life of the author, they can just keep renewing it, just make sure estates, trusts, etc, can't renew it when the original author is dead (ideally make it so that only the original author can renew it)

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    19. Re:Ya kiding right? by nathan.fulton · · Score: 1

      If you find yourself writing something on /. and suddenly think "this is such a good idea I should copyright it," you should probably stop writing, collect your thoughts, and put your effort towards articulating that idea into a piece that can be critiqued in depth and seriously. You know, as opposed to posting it and waiting to see what the karma-seekers have to say about it.

      To generalize: no, I don't think every little tiny thing you write should be copyrightable. Because I think that you should be writing for more altruistic reasons than profit motive -- especially on a blog or /. comment.

    20. Re:Ya kiding right? by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      What if you just want sane copyright laws (like 28 years, with registered renewals available to the original author)

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    21. Re:Ya kiding right? by KahabutDieDrake · · Score: 1

      The blog raises some interesting questions. However, your posts to slashdot, and any other comment threads on any other site aren't, or should not be copywritten. The fact that you expect them to be is part of the root of the issue here today.

      The bottom line is that if you have an idea that you have yet to capitalize on, you should probably keep it to yourself. That way you are free to move at your own speed, and get it to market in the way you envision. Posting your "creative" concept to a public forum pretty much voids the concept of copywrite.

    22. Re:Ya kiding right? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      here's a nickel. buy yourself an actual joke so we can use these senses of humor.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    23. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to have missed that he was talking about Mr. Hilter, the National Bocialist candidate in the Minehead by-election.

    24. Re:Ya kiding right? by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      Why would you copyright things that arn't worth any money, if a book isn't going to make more than $35 who the hell is going to steal it?

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    25. Re:Ya kiding right? by celle · · Score: 1

      "I would prefer mandatory registration similar to the way the domain name system works. Thus:"

      You are kidding right?!! Let's look at the recent history of the dns registration system. Various forms of cybersquatting, registration stealing, improper registar behavior (ex. registering dns names from independent queries(intellectual theft)), questionable registar regulation (ex.registerfly finally lost accreditation after years of misbehavior, finally cracking down on registars preregistering domains from independent lookups), etc. It may work but I wouldn't want to depend something as long ranging and real life/physical as copyright on it. We're talking about registering a record in a computer database somewhere, the cost to register should be minimal if not free as a service and done by the government as an independent/regulatory entity its supposed to be.
              The term should be no longer that 20 years (or less, definitely not more) after publishing, death irrelevant, and afterwards its public domain. You know like the founding fathers intended, the primary goal of copyright is to enrich society by giving creators a monopoly for a limited period to make a profit at the expense of immediate disclosure to the public for reuse. The key words are limited period, even in the life of this country (233yrs) the 80 or so years of a current lifetime isn't all that limited a period.

    26. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No those are anarchists. Libertarians want everything"free of legitimized violent force" except that used by the government to enforce private ownership of property.

    27. Re:Ya kiding right? by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      The grocery list I jotted down this afternoon is subject to copyright.

      While I agree with your sentiments, lists of items are not covered by copyright. Unless you like to add colorful commentary to your grocery lists, they are like lists of ingredients in a recipe and in the public domain.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    28. Re:Ya kiding right? by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Yeah, fair enough. I've been toying with the term "practical pacifism" for an ideology somewhere between anarchism and libertarianism. The only legitimate use of force is to stop or prevent the initiation of force.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    29. Re:Ya kiding right? by Selanit · · Score: 3, Funny

      I stand corrected! In future I shall be sure to write my grocery lists like cheap thrillers.

      "This is a dark city. (Item: lightbulbs, 3, flourescent.) I was cleaning up from my last job (Item: Clorox; item: new scrubbie sponges; item: nitric acid) and contemplating what I'd have for dinner (Items: 5 steaks, 1 bottle steak sauce, a nice Cabernet Rosso, 1 bag potatoes, garlic, broccoli, rice) when I looked up and there she was: redheaded, green-eyed, a short compact frame and legs that went all the way down. (Item: Trojans, more Cabernet Rosso, maybe some flowers.) "Hi, gorgeous," I said. "You need anything at the grocery store?" She cocked her head prettily, and said "We're out of hand soap in the upstairs bathroom, there are only two cans of cat food left, and the kids need more pencils for school -- someone discovered our stash and reduced them all to stubs in the electric sharpener." Rinsing my hands, I asked "Are there any suspects in the case?" She glanced over her shoulder and said "The culprit, I believe, goes by the code name 'Junior.'" I nodded, checked my wallet, jotted a few notes, and headed for the door. "Well, I'll investigate, and if guilty this fiend shall be punished."

      "Oh, you dashing fellow," she replied. "Don't forget the milk."

    30. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because it's relatively better does not mean it is sane. Public domain is a good thing and should be encouraged. Sane is no copyright, but if we have too, 5 years tops.

    31. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No can do, jokes are registered now. We need $35.

    32. Re:Ya kiding right? by ImaLamer · · Score: 1

      Posting your "creative" concept to a public forum pretty much voids the concept of copywrite. [SIC]

      I think posting something in the public a) begs for you to copyright it because others may plagiarize it and b) publishing works (no matter how significant) creates copyright

      If you keep ideas/works/(or even patentable works) to yourself, there just isn't any point and essentially shouldn't even be in this discussion.

    33. Re:Ya kiding right? by ImaLamer · · Score: 1

      you should probably stop writing, collect your thoughts, and put your effort towards articulating that idea into a piece that can be critiqued in depth and seriously.

      I'm sure The Beatles were just going to play music and wait and see what the response was before they applied for protection. I'm pretty sure they protected themselves before they played one note publicly. And you are talking out of both sides of your mouth; "a piece that can be critiqued in depth and seriously" ... "posting it and waiting to see what the karma-seekers have to say about it". What's the difference? Karma seekers, mods or college professors, it doesn't matter. What you are saying is that minutia shouldn't be protected, but it's your right. It's kind of like the first ten amendments - you don't care until you need to hide behind one of them. Maybe you just don't produce anything worthwhile to have a dog in this fight. But you also can't say everything should meet a certain standard. Britney Spears, for example, is not the greatest musical act to ever live - but people would rip her off left and right if they could (and by her I mean her writers).

      I think that you should be writing for more altruistic reasons than profit motive -- especially on a blog or /. comment.

      Altruism... pretty much doesn't get anyone anything anytime. Stallman didn't create the GPL out of altruism, to simply help his fellow man. While I agree with him he is also a zealot. If you remove the economic motivators people simply aren't going to produce. Sure, there will still be music, but will it be any good? Even those who give it all away are after something, dominance in their genre, satisfaction of knowing they have provided something.

      Humans are not altruistic animals. Animals aren't altruistic. Sometimes they exhibit this behavior, but usually there are deeper motivations than just being 'nice'.

      (This post deserves a few commas, but it's late and I'm refusing to put them in)

    34. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Treaties (such as the Berne convention) are secondary to the constitution. Meaning that congress ultimately decides the nature of patents and copyrights. But remember, there is never any debate for the public good anymore as congress continually falls over itself trying to please corporations.

    35. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not at all. When Pixar eats out, their scribbles are not measured by the quality of the napkin!

    36. Re:Ya kiding right? by gd2shoe · · Score: 1

      I don't think Godwin's law can jump the shark by definition. It's an interesting thought though.

      The term "jump the shark" is not well defined. The best definition that I've read is that the (ex:) television show has taken an irrevocable turn against what originally made it popular. This is usually a specific point when it becomes obvious that the writer/director/producer has become desperate and is willing to kill the show in their attempt to revive it.

      Jumping the shark is not about becoming cliche. It's not about merely losing popularity. If people stopped making Nazi analogies online, perhaps then we can say that it has jumped the shark. (Though obsolete would probably be a much more appropriate term.)

      The real question is: has "jump the shark" jumped the shark? If it no longer has a meaning unique to "unpopular", then I submit that it has.

      --
      I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
    37. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intellectual "property" is not private property. Rather, it's its opposite: http://www.stephankinsella.com/

    38. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Er, +5 funny, maybe. Not so informative on the trains or the vegetarianism....

    39. Re:Ya kiding right? by swillden · · Score: 1

      The fix to copyrighting everything is to raise the bar from something minimally creative to a higher standard.

      I don't think that would work very well. It would require the establishment of an organization akin to the patent office to determine whether or not a given work qualifies. Hugely expensive, and we see how well the PTO works.

      Better yet, require no registration for a copyright of a few years, but require registration for something along the lines of 10-15 years.

      I think automatic copyright is just fine. The problem is the insanely long terms.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    40. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's more politically convenient for Slashdotters to believe that Hitler was a vegetarian. So no one will pay any attention to your post.

    41. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's obvious you're book and other self-published are not part of the useful arts. I don't mean this as an insult, but if it didn't sell, it's probably not wanted.

    42. Re:Ya kiding right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he doesn't receive any income from his blog, what reason does he have to need it copyrighted? The purpose of copyright is to protect an author's source of income for a limited amount of time. That income should easily cover a $35 registration fee. If it doesn't, then it doesn't really need to be copyrighted.

      This idea that everything you say or write or even think should be copyrighted is a huge problem with copyright law.

    43. Re:Ya kiding right? by againjj · · Score: 1

      no registration means you can only claim for actual damages, having a registration causes punitive to come into play

      My understanding is that without registration you can't press a copyright infringement suit at all. That's not a big deal, though, it just means you send in the registration just before you file your suit.

      In the US, if you don't register within a specific time frame, you do lose the right to statutory damages.

      Wikipedia:

      • Statutory damages are not available if the work is unpublished and the infringement began before the effective date of its registration.
      • Statutory damages are not available if the work is published but the infringement commenced after the first publication and before the effective date of its registration, unless registration is made within three months after the first publication.
    44. Re:Ya kiding right? by swillden · · Score: 1

      Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    45. Re:Ya kiding right? by EvanED · · Score: 1

      If he doesn't receive any income from his blog, what reason does he have to need it copyrighted?

      In case he later decides that he wants to. You know, like he did.

      The purpose of copyright is to protect an author's source of income for a limited amount of time.

      That's not the sole purpose of copyright, and I can illustrate that very easily: the GPL. If copyright only served to protect a source of income, then there'd be no reason for the GPL a lot of the time since the BSD license would satisfy the same things.

      Copyright's purpose is to advance the "useful arts and sciences" (if I remember the working right). Protecting a source of income is one way to do that. Ensuring that derivative works remain open is another. Encouraging works by making it so someone ELSE can't make money without paying back is another.

      (As an illustration on that last one, assume that Raymond Chen never did want to make money, so left his blog uncopyrighted. I still think it's useful to prevent a 3rd party from just coming along and putting together a compilation themself and selling it, retuning nothing to Chen. I can definitely see the possibility of that preventing some people from contributing.)

      This idea that everything you say or write or even think should be copyrighted is a huge problem with copyright law.

      Well, you're one out of three. (Writing something leads to copyright, but saying (without recording) or thinking doesn't.) Anyway, I would disagree.

    46. Re:Ya kiding right? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      that depends entirely on quality of the napkin.

      If only it did. If copyright lasted only as long as the medium to which it was affixed, there'd be a chance something would be newly entering the public domain today.

      Not only does this month's paper wrapper covering your Big Mac® soiled with grease, cheese, pickle and onion juices, sesame seeds, and special sauce enjoy at least 95 years of copyright enforcement, it's also registered with the copyright office for punitive damages if you dare try to copy it without expressed written permission.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    47. Re:Ya kiding right? by kelnos · · Score: 1

      Maybe the parent meant that Hitler painted vegetarians...

      --
      Xfce: Lighter than some, heavier than others. Just right.
    48. Re:Ya kiding right? by unitron · · Score: 1

      So the latest just discovered Robert Ludlum work is "The Safeway List" ?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  8. Marybeth Peters isn't a reliable source by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    said Marybeth Peters, the Library of Congress's current register of copyrights.

    Unfortunately, considering what else Marybeth Peters has said about copyright to Congress, I really can't believe anything she says about anything anymore.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  9. Coming up at 11, by l00sr · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Hitler: the man who made the trains run on time.

    1. Re:Coming up at 11, by skine · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that was Mussolini and thyme, respectively.

    2. Re:Coming up at 11, by PPH · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "I'm here to put you back on schedule." - Darth Vader

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:Coming up at 11, by unitron · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      It is actually Mussolini with whom the phrase "made the trains run on time" is most closely associated.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    4. Re:Coming up at 11, by Mr+Thinly+Sliced · · Score: 1

      Hitler made Mussolini run on thyme?

      What a mad parallel universe this is. I shall now experience some of your earth "sex".

    5. Re:Coming up at 11, by Mr+Thinly+Sliced · · Score: 1

      Hmm on my planet the females must bare their breasts immediately when asked by I.T. professionals.

      It does not seem to be the case here on this planet. I shall continue investigating after I have been "Booked" I believe is the term.

  10. Another chapter by mc1138 · · Score: 1

    In the fight between the holders of the copyrights, and the rest of us. I wonder what her thoughts on the DMCA would be.

  11. Heroine? by MrMista_B · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Heroine? Seriously? Extending copyright to 50 years past death? Giving major copyright holdiers just about everything they wanted?

    She should be scorned as the woman who betrayed the American People for the sake of the greed of lazy corporations.

  12. Berne Convention, Bah by mbone · · Score: 1

    I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that fair use is an old common law concept that was just (partially) codified in the 1976 Copyright Act. Putting that in the law was a good thing, but adopting the Berne Convention (life + 50 years, no registration) was not a good thing.

  13. Heroin Hero by tepples · · Score: 1

    Heroine? Seriously? Extending copyright to 50 years past death? Giving major copyright holdiers just about everything they wanted?

    You're right. They misspelled Heroin.

  14. you're right, because by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    I own the copyright on the torrents I create.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:you're right, because by am+2k · · Score: 1

      Hmm, since a torrent is a collection of facts (checksums), isn't it non-copyrightable in most countries, just like a phonebook?

    2. Re:you're right, because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every novel is a collection of words that have already been used elsewhere. Words and their meaning is just facts. No difference between a dictionary and Shakespeare other than the order and number of words.

      Luckily in the US the definition of creative work is pretty loose.

    3. Re:you're right, because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. It is a derivative work. Sorry.

  15. Re:No, a torrent is not "fair use". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm afraid as AC i already patented methods of trolling involving being a strawman that contributes nothing to a discussion! .'. for the part of your text where you are demonstrating this, mainly paragraph 2, sentences 1 through 1:

    "No, strangling a composer with a piano roll is not fair use"

    I intend to sue you for 1...billion dollars!

    cuz when your not sure if copyright law is fucked-up enough to sue somebody, just wait for the relevant patents to be applies!

  16. Old vs New by PingPongBoy · · Score: 1

    It's all about money? Fine. Then why not just let the market decide. Anything that is earning at least 2 or 3 standard deviations below the mean after an arbitrary number of years, 10 years is a good target, is automatically copyright-renewed for another 10. But there has to be provision for adequate supply relative to demand rather than prices being artificially raised by scarcity, that is, prices are based on costs of production, and copyright is based on volume sold rather than per unit pricing. As a result, even stuff that is free could be copyrighted as a sign of its impact.

    The existing and even the old system seems to be a bit outmoded. Copying was a lot harder in the past so that was already a deterrent. Now, the opposite is happening. Not only is it easier to copy, but it's so much easier to create that good stuff is buried under the unending streams of average and mediocre. The

    For vendors, the catch is that copyright would expire if they do not adequately market or make something available. Material that becomes obsolete should lose copyright quickly. Material that does not have price competitiveness would also lose copyright quickly but is that really a big loss?

    The whole idea of copyrights will come to a technological head anyways. The algorithms and guidelines of creativity will become more understood, and computers will be creating very appealing works, but these algorithms will be available for everyone to use. So who has the copyright if independent computers generate the same output? Maybe for the sake of example someone can point out claims over snapshots of the Mandelbrot set?

    --
    Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
  17. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  18. Re:MOD PARENT UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude, if you're a namefag, we can tell who you are. Also, EPIC WIN OP!!!

  19. Following it by NuKeLiTe · · Score: 1

    Hope that the fact to mention this lady falls under the fair use!

    --
    Recave
  20. Copyright by mindcorrosive · · Score: 1

    Copyright is one of those things that everybody on /. seem to have a strong opinion about. We've gone through this innumerable number of times, really. Time for me to take a shot at it, I guess..
    The thing with the current copyright law (both in EU and USA, it seems), is that it needs to please both the public and the authors, with the latter currently having the upper hand. I'd suggest having a two-tier scheme, with a grace period of say 20 years since publication, for which the government guards the copyrights of a work. After that, the individual is required to pay a non-trivial annual fee (probably based on the declared income on the works -- IRS will definitely know how much that would be, and a with a hard lower limit), essentially a tax to the public, for extending the copyright further. This way, Walt Disney could afford probably to pay up say 5 or 10% anually of its income out of Mickey and Co., and still generate profit. For the 90's teen-band, long disbanded, well -- tough luck if you can't cough up the $1000 for extension.
    Of course, everything here's just speculation, and the way to work is through your congress/parliament member. I know which Swedish party I'm voting for on the EU elections in June..

    --
    + 3.14 Transcendental
  21. bad deal by speedtux · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It seems to me that codifying fair use rights in return for lifetime+50 copyright terms and no requirement for explicit copyright registration was very bad deal.

    Without explicit copyright registration, the public domain becomes severely restricted, since the burden to prove that something is public domain is on the user--often an impossible burden.

    (I won't even go into why lifetime+50 is not justified either constitutionally or economically.)

  22. renewal is important anyway by speedtux · · Score: 1

    So in order to generate enough business to sustain a strongly competitive registration market, we'd probably have to require renewal at shorter intervals

    Renewal isn't just important in order to drum up business for registrars, it's important so that public and orphan works actually become usable by the public.

    However, even proposals like registering works for $1 every 10 years have been strongly opposed by publishers. Why? The current legal uncertainty means that they don't have to compete with orphan works and that they can potentially retain copyright for their works indefinitely.

    Also, we might not be able to do anything like this without violating the Berne Treaty. So perhaps it's just a fantasy. But I really wish we could.

    The US has signed some really bad international treaties: Berne is one of them, the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, which prohibits any kind of rational drug policy, is another. There are more. These usually get passed by special interests while nobody is paying attention, and people are tied into those conventions for perpetuity.

    (Not all international conventions and treaties are bad, of course, but separating the good from the bad is hard.)

  23. Yes, and fair use exceeds the 4 codified factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A cookie for you, you are absolutely right.

    Another item people often miss through ignorance about the law (almost everybody) or deliberately (the RIAAs and MPAAs and their disgusting ilk pushing lies) is that the courts have said resoundingly that the 4 items codified in the statute are examples, only, and do not encompass the totality of fair use.

    I have the cases in my office and not where I am now or I would provide citations. But wise up, people, stop listening to RIAA and MPAA lies, and exercise your damn rights already. The 4 items codified in the US Code are examples and not the only instances of fair use, not by a longshot.

    (Heck, IIRC one of those cases from a persuasive jurisdiction (federal appellate) held that not only are the 4 items mere examples of fair use, but they represent only a small subset of fair use rights. This is established US caselaw, people, and not debatable).

  24. An Anti-Consitutional Criminal by LuYu · · Score: 1

    I am shocked at Slashdot's headline for this post. The Washington Post's title "Force Behind Copyright" is much more appropriate. Anyone involved with bringing the 1976 Copyright Act into existence should be jailed, not commended. It is the most significant blow to Free Speech since the ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, Barbara A. Ringer is a traitor, a modern day Benedict Arnold, for helping to draft this legislation.

    Long before 1976, Fair Use was recognised in common law (decisions based on precedent rather than legal code). However, until 1976, Fair Use was not codified in any laws. This meant that the scope of Fair Use was up to the judges to decide. This also meant that it was virtually unlimited because any judicial decision could expand its scope as people understood it. By codifying Fair Use, it became possible to restrict the boundaries of Fair Use by limiting it to the encoded law. This means future actions that might be deemed Fair Use by the courts would be limited or avoided by the law (as for future uses, P2P and other file sharing comes to mind). This was precisely the argument used by the opponents of the codification of Fair Use, and it is obvious today that they were right. If ordinary citizens can be sued for hundreds of millions of dollars for having a few mp3s on their computers, Fair Use clearly is not protecting the public enough.

    The second reason that Fair Use was codified in the 1976 Copyright Act is also insidious. The copyright lobby wanted this law to appear fair and balanced when presenting it to Congress. Including Fair Use allowed them to claim that they had conceded something to the public. This is disgusting because it was something that the public already had, and the copyright lobby took it away, crippled it, and returned it saying, "Look, we have given you a gift!" This is as if your neighbor took your car out for a drive without your permission, destroyed the transmission, and returned it to you saying, "Here is a new car for you!"

    Finally, by keeping the different interested parties together, she brought into being a horrible law which we have all suffered from ever since. If the law had failed, as it should of, I certainly would not be calling copyright unconstitutional today. Unfortunately, though, the law did pass, and so today we have no system to show what copyrights exist (the 1976 Copyright Act abolished the requirement for copyright applications and certificates -- the very copyrights themselves -- eliminating the creation of all records of which copyrights covered which information and who the copyright holders actually were), "limited Times" that are longer than the average human lifespan (obviously unlimited from the perspective of and given human and, thus, unconstitutional), and derivative works rights (allowing copyright holders or even claimants to expand their monopoly to speech that the holders themselves did not create just because it was similar to what they created).

    All of these additions to copyright created massive legal uncertainty. Which words are whose copyright? No one knows. Which works are a derivative? No one knows. Which authors are living or dead, and how do we contact them? No one knows.

    Since 1976, it is nearly impossible to distinguish copyrighted speech from Free Speech, and because of automatic copyrights, all speech recorded in any medium (any server, any computer, any phone with memory) is a copyrighted work. Before 1978, when the 1976 Copyright Act took effect, copyright affected a very small percentage of speech. Today, nearly all speech is copyrighted. I ask the question again: If all speech is "owned", how can there be Free Speech?

    Barbara A. Ringer was a criminal, and enemy of the Freedom enshrined in the Constitution of the United States, and an opponent of Free People everywhere in the world. She does not deserve anyone's praise.

    --
    All data is speech. All speech is Free.
  25. A Hero? by malkavian · · Score: 1

    To the copyright cartels perhaps, for granting them copyright far in excess of a lifetime.
    To me, it's a simple case of theft. I, along with everyone else, have ownership of the Public Domain. A significant part of this has been stolen (in the true sense; what should have been public is now still grasped firmly by corporations).
    What I find to be truly incomprehensible is that copyright used to be 14 years + 14 extension, in the days that it would take 20 years to have your work travel the world (and probably a good 5-10 years to cover your homeland). This was deemed sufficient to cover the author, and still ensure they had to work and produce new content.
    These days, it takes days to cover most of the world. And the term of protection required is life plus 70 years (on average, say about 110 years). Face it, the lobby groups have stolen 80+ years of open culture from us. I'd like it back please.

  26. Re:Yes, and fair use exceeds the 4 codified factor by gd2shoe · · Score: 1

    This is established US caselaw, people, and not debatable

    But it isdebatable... In other US courtrooms. (Granted, courts are loath to overturn prior case-law, but it happens. Bigger changes have happened.)

    --
    I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
  27. Re:No, a torrent is not "fair use". by gd2shoe · · Score: 1

    I'm beside myself waiting for the infamous Mr. Anonymous Coward to appear at the courthouse.

    I've got the tomatoes. Who's got the rotten eggs?

    --
    I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
  28. I lost the game. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I lost the game.

  29. When I'm an old dude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    any money I put into my retirement fund is going to make no difference to my pension.

    Isn't this unfair?

    Now to the copyright: the right is supposed to make the person who is making the work make the work.

    If he thinks that there's no point in doing so because he's old and expects to die soon, then why not just let him not make it.

    Of course, one reason why people die after retirement earlier than those who continue to work (proper work, mind) is that the work stimulates interest, so the old dude may die earlier than expected if he doesn't do work he loves.

    And so its in his best interest to continue to work. Why give special interest to him because of his age?

    And lastly, why should he make any work if he's still getting cash from something written 50 years ago and will continue to make cash for another 50? Surely if his older stuff were already out of his control, he'd be financially motivated to create new works.

    And isn't that why copyright was put there?

  30. Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Isn't the point exactly to help enrich the creator, thus encouraging creation in the first place?"

    No.

    What it does is break the free market and hand a monopoly for a limited time to the creator so that they may profit from their works without competition reducing the profitability of their work and by this method enable them to persue an artist as a career.

    But if you have a winner that will still pay enough to live on for 75 years, where's the incentive to write more? If 90% of the money is made for 90% of the works in 5 years of marketing, then why make copyright last longer than 5 years? That's more than long enough to make and start selling a new work so being an artist full-time is now possible.

    And with the money earned WHILE ALIVE, they can invest it and create a monetary legacy for their offspring (in addition to passing on their fame: you think Paul McCartney's daughter would have a job in a fashion house if her data was a nobody?) just like everyone else does.

    And what about out-of-print works? There is no way to profit from the sale of works when they are no longer for sale. So while copyright lives, the work MUST be made available. Otherwise all the extended copyright allows is the locking away of works until any possible version of the work has deteriorated or been lost.

    Who profits then?

    1. Re:Wrong by phlinn · · Score: 1

      Because if copyright was only 5 years, a lot of purchases wouldn't be made because people would wait 5 years, thus eliminating a great deal of the profit. I'm not saying I support the existence of copyright, or the extreme lengths we have, just that a period of 5 years would produce a lot less than 90% of the profits generated under the current system.

      --
      "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
    2. Re:Wrong by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Because if copyright was only 5 years, a lot of purchases wouldn't be made because people would wait 5 years, thus eliminating a great deal of the profit.

      That depends on the nature of the work. If people waited five years to purchase software to acquire it from the public domain, the hardware upon which it could run would be obsolete.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    3. Re:Wrong by story645 · · Score: 1

      What it does is break the free market and hand a monopoly for a limited time to the creator so that they may profit from their works without competition reducing the profitability of their work and by this method enable them to persue an artist as a career.

      Uh isn't the competition all the other works on the market by other creators? Any book published this year inherently competes with everything in the book store, including public domain stuff without any copyrights.

      --
      open source modern art: laser taggi
  31. Yeah, companies are all looking out for each other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One publishing company will assassinate an author so that even though they get put in jail when found out, all the other publishing companies get to benefit from not having to share profits with the author.

    They're so selfless like that.

  32. Be prepared for a renewed push by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1

    2016 is drawing near, so expect a massive lobby for extending copyright expiry to go beyond 50 years after author's death (probably to 70, even 100 years or more). Why is 2016 significant? Because that is the year marking the 50th anniversary of Walt Disney's death, and I do not expect the House of Mouse to let go of the keys to its money printing business without a long, drawn out fight.

  33. hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    my hero

  34. Re:Yes, and fair use exceeds the 4 codified factor by The+Madd+Rapper · · Score: 1

    The four statutory factors are not exclusive, as you say. Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of courts consider those four and only those four. For example, take a look at Barton Beebe, An Empirical Study of U.S. Copyright Fair Use Opinions, 1978-2005, 156 U. Pa. L. Rev. 549 (2008).

    --
    That's the shit that feds me up
  35. Hey, RMS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is what I had in the back of my mind and as soon as I read this newsarticle, the parts connected...

    Why not call Free software by the name "Fair software"?

    See answers.com (just google the word and click on definition), but I emphasize here:

    - free of storms: fair sky;
    - free of stains;
    - equitable, not partial;
    - in accordance to merit;
    - consistent with rules/ethic;
    - (archaic) free of obstacles;

    The major reason is to stop at once and for all the use of the word "free" which in English leads to confusion and give English-speakers the same advantage people have in other languages: to be able to say "Fair Software is not necessarily free" or "it's free, ok, but it's not Fair Software".

    English os not my native language, sorry if it's a bad idea.

    Oh, thanks for everything. We don't agree 100%, but you're certainly needed in these present days. Please don't stop what you're doing, k?

    Yours truly,

    RSS.

    PS: actually, "fair" would be a problem in other languages which already use the translation of free without problems... like "livre", "libre" etc.

  36. Generally Available by Penguinoflight · · Score: 1

    As the author of the original work, your derivative work should be allowed copyright protection from the date of publishing. This would not be applied retroactively to the original work which would then be public domain.

    None of your examples would qualify as "generally available", unless in the last case your teacher submitted the work to a publication.

    It's not YOUR 10 years, so you can't get them back.

    --
    "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
    1 John 4:14
  37. Posit: post mortem publication by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

    As for the old dude who created the original work right before he died: he's not going to be rewarded no matter the length of the copyright, so extending the copyright past his death is an insult to the purpose of copyright. Rewarding dead people at the expense of the living isn't the purpose of copyright.

    Explicitly rewarding the dead at the expense of the living is an insult to the purpose of copyright. But assuming death sets its own schedule, his dependents should still enjoy the term he would have assumed he would get had he not died.

    But not a single year longer.

    Unless, as an element of the author's artistic expression, his works are withheld from publication until after his death on a schedule set forth in his will, and altered post mortem only by the deterministic methods (i.e. as by a program) set forth in that will, where copyright duration would be determined by the state of the law at the time the will was last amended with the willed publication date. If you want to provide for your future offspring, arrange to have your works published after your death. (An exception to the unpublished works copyright duration would need to be carved out to allow for the last-willed publication schedule of works, unless as part of the alterations to the work is something unique to you, such as the state of your decomposing corpse.)

    If you can invent a machine that is left running after you die that can create works long after your death based on how you programmed it, you can provide for your offspring forever. Hopefully you can accurately predict the future market's demand for your works.

    Imagine if "In the Year 2525" only released new verses on the year of the previous verse.

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  38. We need to go back to 28 years again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This whole work once and profit for life bullshit needs to stop. It only serves the corporations, so they can buy everything up and horde it for hundreds of years. Look for the extensions to just keep on moving out further and further.

    Nothing has entered public domain in my entire adult life.

  39. Shut up KalDouche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject

  40. Kalriath can't read, proof inside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0