Slashdot Mirror
EU Rejects Law To Cut Pirates Off From Their ISP
MJackson writes "Europe has rejected plans to allow ISPs to disconnect users suspected of involvement with illegal file-sharing. In its final vote, the European Parliament chose to retain amendment 46 (138) of the new Telecoms Package by a majority of 407 to 57. Amendment 46 states that restrictions to the fundamental rights and freedoms of Internet users can only be put in place after a decision by judicial authorities. However, network neutrality remains unprotected."
As far as I'm aware it's not "illegal" to share files. It may breach someone's copyright, but it's not "illegal".
If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
They'll just drop this stinkburger provision into page 923 of the ACTA treaty and ram it down their throats anyway.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
There is no "right" to internet access, and any such attempt at asserting such a right must invariably violate actual individual rights - life, liberty, property, pursuit of happiness. Likewise, the only proper role of government is to uphold and protect these rights through the courts, police, and military. The government should not be providing internet access.
Don't think this is off the table yet. Wait 'til the elections are over.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Innocent Until proven guilty. Granted it doesn't always work properly and it sometimes lets the bad guys go Scott free. But it really is a good idea. As it is better for the Bad Guys to go free then the Good guys to be locked up. Also this could lead to abuse say for this case you are just using a lot of bandwidth legally, They could kick you off and say you were probably pirating just so they don't need to improve their infrastructure.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Alternate title:
"EU return back to re-send a law to spy users communications, and let the ISP ban users based on his habits"
-Woof woof woof!
On another note:
"Amendment 138 adopted: internet access is a fundamental right "
http://www.blackouteurope.eu/
The Somali pirates have web sites now?!?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Where's the "suddenoutbreakofcommonsense" tag when you need it? Just because they THINK someone is committing a crime doesn't mean they have the evidence. This should've been a no-brainer from the start.
Sigh. "Copyright infringement != Piracy", but I guess this just won't die, so here goes... ... <NO CARRIER>
Arrrr matey!
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
It's not only an American thing. We've got the same in Italy, Europe. Check Article 27 at http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Italy
The defendant is not considered guilty until final judgment is passed.
I expect every democratic county to have the same statement in its constitutional chart even if governments (US included) sometimes find ways to work around those principles.
Not another person banging on about Magna Carta. MC simply gave the barons a right to challenge the authority of the king, a damn good step in the right direction I'll grant you, but the peasants and middling-sort were still pretty much screwed until the plague more or less wiped half the work force of England off the map! It allowed the surfs to finally tell their landlords to get stuffed and get decent conditions and pay.
MC was an important step towards the ideas of democracy, but it wasn't until people like Thomas Payne finally started to lay ideas down that later formed the US constitution, that democracy and all it's attendant "interests", started to look like something that people could finally attain.
My first thought was 'how are they going to cut off the Somali pirate's Internet connection from Europe,' then I remembered this is Slashdot, where not all pirates are real pirates.
The counterargument goes, "if it prevents a single criminal from committing another crime then it's worth it." This is the standard tough-on-crime position we see in politics a lot. It is what led us down the road of torture and extraordinary rendition.
Well, I live in the County of Lincolnshire, we've got an original copy of the Magna Carta, but no constitutional chart. What should I do?
If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
Hijacking boats is one thing, but now the Somali pirates have the nerve to share files? Time for some more special ops.
They don't understand what a terrible crime sharing files is. In the US, sharing files can get you a $500,000 fine and 5 years in prison. Compare that for the penalty for robbing a liquor store. There is good reason why file sharing has such a penalty. The media industry is a $4-trillion industry. With file sharing that industry increases to $5 trillion. That's a difference of $1 trillion dollar. The actual loss or gain is not important. The important thing is that it is great deal of money, and it is important that the right people control that money. Also, someone needs to control the flow of information. Right now there is already too much information on the "internet". Does there really need to be more information available?
who read this and thought that the EU was debating the isp rights of somali pirates.
It really does drive home how stupid it is to call copyright infringers "pirates" when we have real pirates on the high seas.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Yes, some action has to be taken against piracy. It has gotten to a point where no nation in the world is capable of enforcing their laws.
There were some pirates that were caugh, most notably by the US, but they are very few comparing to the whole, and piracy is just growing. And to try them... it's just useless. The laws aren't adequate, jurisdiction is confused, a mess.
We need some serious legislative action. But what do we see? France comes with a baseball law. Why??? Although I don't defend pirates' access to the internet, I fail to see the connection. They use mostly radio signals to locate their victims.
Now EU has come and said that internet is a fundamental right. I agree wholeheartdly. It's hard to see how a modern persion would function economically without teh tubes. But it worries me that they are trying to become the US, in this very bad habit of overstepping its jurisdiction. Why the hell would the EU have a say in Somalia?
entropy happens
Go and cry at the base of Boston Stump.
no, Copyright infringement = Piracy.
why should it die? You, your parents, your grandparents, your great-grandparents, and several -generations- of your family before hadn't even been BORN by the time 'pirate' was used to describe those committing copyright infringement.
Also... you probably meant to write: "Copyright infringement = !Piracy"
I wasn't aware there were any ISP's that offered service in the middle of the Indian Ocean anyway.
Do they use their Internet access to notify the ship owners what their ransom is?
Ooh. I see, you were using the wrong term, which lead to my confusion.
"Piracy" is the act of attacking ships with weapons and either stealing their cargo, or the whole ship, and "pirates" is what people who do that are called. Lately its in fashion to ransom the ships.
Assuming you don't agree that 'making copies of music files' is a crime on par with attacking ships and ransoming them, maybe a different term would be more appropriate. Try one of the ones mentioned at:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Piracy
Nope, no fail. What are you even talking about??? The quote asserts a "fundamental right" of Internet users - ie, a right to use other peoples' property (the ISP's). That must violate the actual right to property.
Fail at abstraction?
We're talking about private entities cutting off users of their services, not about the government doing so. Obviously I'm against the latter. Yeesh...
This reject from EU won't avoid our lovely French president to enact the HADOPI law... So in few days in France, if you "share" copyrighted data, you could be cut off from your ISP....
However, any distribution of copyrighted material is. By simply taking away access from someone who is sharing files, you take away fair use of something properly owned. I can make my own music, make an MP3 file, and share it with anyone I want. That's not illegal. Neither is sharing any open-source material that may be of use or interest to others. I think the rule allowing IPSs to terminate based on file sharing may have been too general to protect the rights of people who aren't doing anything illegal.
Speed enforcement does need to be reformed. Officers seem to only give tickets as an incentive to keep their jobs. Its not about safety, its about making the quota to satisfy "the higher ups."
Damn right. In fact, the majority of the time when a speeding ticket is handed out, the distraction of the police car at the side of the road is more of a safety hazard than the speeding driver was.
And could not agree more with the rest of what you posted as well.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
Movie revenues are up over the year, piracy doesn't cost the movie industry money it just prevents them releasing as many terrible films. Many people will buy a movie they download if it is good, but not a bad one. Eventually movie houses will have to produce less dross and more higher quality films.
In other news, an IT manager at the largest french TV network got fired over sending (from his private account) an e-mail to his local representative, in which he argued against HADOPI (the french anti-piracy bill).
"can only be put in place after a decision by judicial authorities"
This statement is pretty generic. Its intent appears to be to acknowledge the issue without doing anything specific and to delegate final authority to the courts. That of course means that the ISP can pretty much do whatever they want. If your Terms of Service says that they can drop you for any reason they want, well you agreed to that. They probably (IANAL) just need to go to court once and have then validate that it all was agreed to in the TOS and then it applies to any of their customers.
Xanthos
Average Intelligence is a Scary Thing
In holland, speed limits HAVE been re-adjusted several times. Raised to 120 a while ago, and then adjusted again to suit local circumstances.
Drugs laws? Well they to have changed as the times have changed.
Your argument, it is made of fail and lose.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
America was its own country, long before it was invaded by europeans. History, those who do not know it somehow keep on repeating it.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
In many ways, the Netherlands is a very enlightened country. Unfortunately, I live in the good ol' USA, where traffic regulations are frequently (but not always) regarded as a revenue source, not a means for promoting safety. For example, the small town of North Plains, Oregon, has the luck that highway 26 (a freeway) runs through a corner of their city limits, so they frequently post one of their half dozen police on the freeway with a radar gun, clocking every car on the freeway as they enter city limits. They then chase everyone going a few mph over the limit, and usually pull them over outside of city limits. Contest you ticket, and you get to deal with a retired judge presiding in the town recreation center who has already decided you are guilty (literally; I asked if I could check the statute cited, and he said he didn't need to bring a copy of the statues to court because he had already reviewed by case and decided I was guilty) and simply rubberstamps whatever the police said. They claim they do this for the "safety of their town residents" but it is obvious that the majority of funding for their police department comes directly from fines issued to motorists on the freeway.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Why can't [government] protect these rights through legislation?
Because a law book won't actually do anything about the burglar who repeatedly trespasses my apartment and steals my stuff.
Addressing the real issues: in most western societies I know about, the trinity of the legislative, executive and judiciary branches of government protect the citizens' rights by working together.
I believe it's fair to say that your parent pointed out that the police (executive) and the courts are the branches that actually do something about it.
HADOPI-like laws will be banned thanks to a different amendment:
http://www.blackouteurope.eu/blog/amendment-13846-adopted-again.-internet-is-a-fundamental-right-in-europe..html
(thanks for think_nix)
Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
This could actually be a monumental decision for E.U., since no disconnection can take place in absence of prior court rule, as the right to knowledge and information, is still considered fundamental. Secondly the ISP is forced to let you know his policy on disconnections.
Sigh. The misconception that piracy is not a term that has been historically and consistently used to described copyright infringement just won't die, so here goes.
I'd also provide you with real sources, such as various cases from an IP law textbook, but I'm too lazy. But they do exist.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
Actually, piracy has long been used to refer to copyright (and patent) infringement. "Long" as in, long before the RIAA existed. Look it up.
If you don't like Wikipedia, here are historical examples from the OED:
1654 J. MENNES Recreation for Ingenious Head-peeces clxxvi, All the wealth, Of wit and learning, not by stealth, Or Piracy, but purchase got.]
1700 E. WARD Journey to Hell II. vii. 14 Piracy, Piracy, they cry'd aloud, What made you print my Copy, Sir, says one, You're a meer Knave, 'tis very basely done.
1770 P. LUCKOMBE Conc. Hist. Printing 76 They..would suffer by this act of piracy, since it was likely to prove a very bad edition.
1855 D. BREWSTER Mem. Life I. Newton (new ed.) I. iv. 71 With the view of securing his invention of the telescope from foreign piracy.
1886 Cent. Mag. Feb. 629/1 That there are many publishers who despise such piracy..does not remove the presumption that publishers and papermakers have been influential opponents of an equitable arrangement.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
America was its own country, long before it was invaded by europeans.
While North America definitely was there before it was invaded by Europeans, there wasn't a single country or state called "America", or anything similar under a different name, before Europeans established one. A bunch of independent nomadic tribes spread over a large territory and constantly quarreling between each other, with no higher authority, does not make a country.
No, it wasn't. Native Americans were divided in tribes. They didn't even have the concept of land ownership, let alone of nation states. Talk about not knowing history!
Fix your summary. Europe is a continent. The EU is a corrupt subversive anti-democratic organization that has with the aid of treasonous national governments almost succeeded in creating a federal superstate.
Once the Lisbon treaty has been ratified across all 27 'member states' the sovereignty of those nations will truly be gone as there is no get-out at that point. At that point there will be an EU foreign minister, national embassies around the world will be closed and replaced with EU Embassies, national military forces will become one under EU control, etc. Only then it will technically be a country, until the globalists that put it together are overthrown.
Mods - before marking this down please educate yourselves. It is all fact.
Legally, "piracy" refers to hijacking boats. (or can you reference any legal code, rather than random quotes?)
Does it? Because when I search through the federal reporter, a lot of the instances of "piracy" refer to aircraft. Or can you reference any legal code, rather than making shit up?
Also, two minutes searching reveals dozens of cases in the federal reporter referring to copyright infringement as piracy, only a couple of which follow.
506 F.2d 392:
To a schoolboy, 'piracy' may mean swashbuckling adventure, lumbering merchantmen, booty, and the Jolly Roger. To a musical composer or a record manufacturer, however, piracy means not doubloons, but dollars, not cutlasses, but cut-rate losses, not the creaking of a ship under way, but the almost imperceptible hum of a reel-to-reel tape, and certainly no jollity about unauthorized copies of a musical work. We conclude here that a composer is not defenseless but, using the guns of the Copyright Act, can force the pirate to heave to in response to an injunctive shot across the bow.
274 F.2d 487
I realize that the view I hold may seriously impair the use of copyright to prevent piracy in an area where this has been recognized to be rampant for thirty years, Cheney Bros. v. Doris Silk Corp., 2 Cir., 1929, 35 F.2d 279, certiorari denied, 1930, 281 U.S. 728, 50 S.Ct. 245, 74 L.Ed. 1145, and probably for much longer, since it may not be practicable to affix the notice to an inside seam on every repetition of the design.
191 F.2d 99
We have here a conflict of policies: (a) that of preventing piracy of copyrighted matter and (b) that of enforcing the anti-trust laws.
574 F.2d 312
Subsequent to the filing of this action, Michigan enacted Mich.Comp.L.Ann. Â 752.781-85 (Supp.1977) which makes record piracy a crime. Most of the states have enacted legislation making record piracy a crime.
While the legal definition of the crime "piracy" may well refer to hijacking of boats/planes, it is a well established practice to refer to copyright infringement as piracy in court opinions. But if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know that.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQJj1BQUiU&feature=related
I strongly object to the title and implying that people who download shared files are "pirates" or doing something illegal. In Spain for example, it is actually legal as the law states clearly that unless there is an economic gain involved, it is perfectly legal.
Stop moaning. Or at least moan in the right way.
I like hearing news that the fundamental concept of being innocent until proven guilty by the judicial system. Fascism everywhere be afraid be very afraid.
It's more about not falling in line with the standard copyright propaganda. Calling infringement "piracy" is meant to evoke images of the horrors pirates have historically done, like pillage and murder.