Ten Features To Love About Android 1.5

An anonymous reader writes "Last month, Google officially announced the Android 1.5 update, dubbed 'cupcake.' The new software is apparently ready to roll out to Android-powered devices beginning tomorrow. Make no mistake, Android 1.5 is a major upgrade — they could have called it 2.0. The software brings a host of new capabilities, some of which can't be found on rival mobile platforms, including video recording and sharing."

Comments

Cupcake

[Culture20]

And people think admitting that installing "Jaunty Jackalope" is embarrasing. Cupcake.

Re:Cupcake

[Anonymous Coward]

I installed Ubuntu 9.04, whats Jaunty Jackalope?

Re:Cupcake

[actionbastard]

What's not to like about cupcakes?

Re:Cupcake

[syousef]

And people think admitting that installing "Jaunty Jackalope" is embarrasing. Cupcake.

Not to mention possible confusion with implants. Although sex sells so admit an attractive girl telling us she likes her cupcake might actually work marketing wise. Certainly works better than 'Gimp'.

Re:Cupcake

[skine]

It's not about the name, it's about the content.

Think of it like the Princess Bride.

Re:Cupcake

[meuhlavache]

SUDO buy me some cupcakes...

Re:Cupcake

[Anonymous Coward]

Think of it like the Princess Bride.

Or, alternately, just grow up and stop being so easily embarrassed.

Re:Cupcake

[f1vlad]

Exactly, sure is everything to love!

Re:Cupcake

[Anonymous Coward]

I was going to reply with the whole "SUDO: Command not found" but zsh is too pro and asked if I would like to correct SUDO to sudo instead. Just thought you might like to know that.

Re:Cupcake

[A12m0v]

For the oddest of reasons cupcakes make me think of boobs.

Re:Cupcake

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't, I don't have any money. And stop calling me SUDO!

Re:Cupcake

[Anonymous Coward]

It wasn't until recently that I found out it was a separate movie to the Princess Diaries.

Re:Cupcake

[JakartaDean]

And people think admitting that installing "Jaunty Jackalope" is embarrasing. Cupcake.

When I was running 8.04, I was always annoyed by the "Heron" name. The folks at Canonical missed the opportunity of the century: to name a software release after Norm Peterson's favorite restaurant on Cheers: The "Hungry Heifer."

Re:Cupcake

[oreaq]

Yeah but what doesn't?

Re:Cupcake

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Conveniently, as with any other development nickname, it'll be called something else entirely by the time it reaches those people.

"Android 1.5" for the marketing fluff and "A system update is available" for the people holding the handsets.

Re:Cupcake

[LanMan04]

Okay.

Re:Cupcake

[Goaway]

It's the magic incantation you have to know as soon as you try to search for help about your OS.

Re:Cupcake

[Anonymous Coward]

We trust you have received the usual lecture from the local System Administrator.
It usually boils down to these two things:

#1) Respect the privacy of others.
#2) Think before you type.

Now tell me the secret passcode and I'll get your cupcakes...

Re:Cupcake

[meuhlavache]

thanks for the correction! **** case sensitive! :)

Re:Cupcake

[meuhlavache]

Correction: sudo stop calling me sudo

Re:Cupcake

[meuhlavache]

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!

Re:Cupcake

[juancnuno]

Remember, you don't have to refer to these things by their code names. If Jaunty and Cupcake are too embarrassing, then use their official names: Ubuntu 9.04 and Android 1.5.

Re:Cupcake

[timeis520]

Free Share Sex 18 Girls Porn Videos. http://www.porn007.net/vshare No Signup,No username.

and a million things to hate about it

[Anonymous Coward]

I've tried numerous times to program for this platform but I hate it so much.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[HeronBlademaster]

I find it difficult to program for the Android platform, but only because it's a *very* different programming paradigm. Rather than a single entry point, as with a standard computer program, there are half a dozen entry points. This isn't really a bad thing - having a single entry point would just mean you'd have to figure out which task needs to be done at the beginning of the program.

In other words, the OS does the hard part for you.

You might hate that style of programming, but it doesn't make it bad - and it certainly doesn't mean there are a million things to hate about the Android platform.

(There may, in fact, actually be a million things to hate about Android. I don't have an Android-based device, so I wouldn't know; I've only fiddled with the emulator in the SDK. My point is simply that the programming paradigm needed to write software for the Android platform isn't one of the things you should be hating.)

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[moon3]

Is there C/C++ (native code) support for it yet? I mean without native code, it might discourage hell lot of developers...

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[moon3]

There is no native code (C/C++) SDK for it last time I've checked, that was about a half year ago. That is a show stopper for lot of people.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[Zigurd]

Not only is the application structure and lifecycle unique and structured around a unique UI flow, Android has unique UI classes in an otherwise mostly standard Java runtime, it uses binder for inter-process communication, it has a unique graphics stack relative to most other Linux systems, and it makes it difficult to put programs other than those written to the Android programming model on the screen, among other differences relative to most Linux-based systems.

But it has already overtaken the Nokia 8xx Web pads, which use Hildon, in user acceptance. Google gambled on establishing an entirely different application layer in the userland for Android and appears to have succeeded.

Android answers the question: "What if Linux had a userland based on a managed language runtime and every application used the same UI classes (and what if a company with sufficient resourced to do it right did it)?"

If Android perplexes you, try this:
http://www.amazon.com/Android-Application-Development-Programming-Google/dp/0596521472

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[sketerpot]

But that also means that it will be easy to port to other devices using different processor types. This way if they port Android to run on (say) ARM and Atom netbooks, the programs people wrote will still work without needing to compile two different versions.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[HeronBlademaster]

That is correct, all application development is done in Java. Yes, that is a show-stopper for some people, but that doesn't make Android a "bad" thing.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[binarylarry]

Actually, nothing prevents you from writing applications with native code.

In fact, parts of the SDK explicitly allow this.

However, it's generally bad idea because Android runs on a variety of hardware platforms, making native code "fun" to deal with in the future. I just hope they add proper JIT at some point, so Android's performance isn't fucking atrocious like it is now.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[moon3]

Do not forget that Google's own applications run native, that means your applications is penalized by using inferior interface.

In other words your application will always be a second rate application, serious developers avoids such a scenario. I've never seen a platform that would run smooth without native environment tweaking.

Give me a native support (C/C++) and there is not a problem to port the code to ARM or Atom.

Java was never really cross platform, there were quirks and problems that unlike (C++) you were not able to fix. That might have changed, but still, it is a single paradigm language, and that is a major pain, god forbid this becomes a standard of sorts.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[A12m0v]

Yeah, I mean look at the iPhone, no one wants to program for it.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[moon3]

iPhone is 'doable', it supports C/C++, you do not need to throw all you code out of window and switch to pretty inferior Java or Objective-C, at least it is not mandatory.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[tyrione]

You don't develop in Java on the iPhone. Why the hell would you need to throw out your C++ let alone a single line of C when ObjC is a superset of C and ObjC++ is there to help in in several areas.

Anyone expecting Apple to abandon ObjC in favor of C++ is mentally stunted.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[Anonymous Coward]

There is an NDK under development. It's not out yet, and when it is, it won't allow full development (app logic will still be in Java) but you'll be able to do all the heavy duty work in C, C++, D, whatever compiles down to native code.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[iznogud]

Do not forget that Google's own applications run native, that means your applications is penalized by using inferior interface.

Which Google's application run native? All major applications on Android (Messaging, Dialer, Contacts, Music, etc) are Java applications, and you can get their source code (I'm trying to do some Android programming when I have time, and I learned a lot from Google's applications).

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[gbjbaanb]

Microsoft answers the question: "What if Linux had a userland based on a managed language runtime and every application used the same UI classes (and what if a company with sufficient resourced to do it right did it)?"

there, fixed that for you.

Just imagine, Linux with a standard GUI, managed runtime, and a company with sufficient resources behind it. Sounds remarkably like another operating system I know of. Perhaps they'll also provide the same level of lock-in, vendor-exclusivity, big-buck addons, and horrible performance and maintenance.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[Alex Belits]

Android runs on a variety of hardware platforms

Android runs on WHAT????!!!

The only supported hardware is ARM. Considering that all other CPU have power requirements far beyond anything usable on a phone, it is likely that phones will be tied to ARM for the foreseeable future, likely longer than lifetime of Android platform itself.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[gbjbaanb]

To port C/C++ to another platform generally needs a recompile, possibly a little modification with some conditional compilation. People have been doing that for years - look at linux for example.

If your Java app doesn't work correctly on a different platform, you're stuffed. Java's never been quite as cross-platform as the marketing hype suggested.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[iapetus]

it makes it difficult to put programs other than those written to the Android programming model on the screen

I have not found this to be the case, having been involved in a port of a large and complex mobile app to Android. Good design helps. :P

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[GooberToo]

Its called "event driven" programing. If you hate coding for Android then you hate coding for Windows too - or most any system which is event driven supports a fully asynchronous model.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow, I doubt it will be the same. Time will tell.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[GooberToo]

Do not forget that Google's own applications run native, that means your applications is penalized by using inferior interface.

Total BS you idiot troll! Their own applications run byte code. The fucking code is available for all to see. Here's a hit, the source ends with '.java'.

Any other lies you want to make up?

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[GooberToo]

I'm sure it compiles for ARM and x86. Last I heard an MIPs port was possible. Android is slated for phones and netbooks.

Besides, saying platforms can mean, non-HTC dream hardware.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[GooberToo]

Someone please mod up the parent. You can do native C/C++ (no exceptions) code on Android right now. Google does not support it but they don't prevent it either.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[BitZtream]

Wow, you've never done programming in an event driven environment before I take it?

There really isn't a lot different from Androids event model to the Windows, OSX or GTK/KDE event models.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[HeronBlademaster]

I would say there are some significant differences between your standard Windows event-driven program and your standard Android program. You see, the Windows program has exactly one entry point (WinMain or main); the event handlers are called by library functions or signals or whatever, but the program is already running at that point.

With Android, your program may actually be loaded at any of the entry points (at least, that's my understanding of it). They may both be event-driven, but there are some fundamental differences that make programming for the Android platform a significantly different task than programming a single-entry-point event-driven program.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[FunkyELF]

iPhone is Obj-C. Thats a show stopper for me.
If I didn't know either Java or Obj-C and had to choose, I'd choose one that I could use on more than one operating system.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[ckaminski]

It's never been the write-once-run-anywhere that the vendor has proclaimed... marginal platforms (like Palm) were always going to be marginal, if supported at all.

But it's far more immediately portable than C/C++, though definitely more inflexible. Many of the same portability mistakes that plague C/C++ also plague every other language (idioms that are vastly different between Unix and Windows, for example, pathnames, asynchronous IO, etc). But many of the problems that plague C++ also aren't. Pointer arithmetic, unbounded pointers, memory leaks (this is so/so).

Give me the introspection capabilities in C++ that Java has today, and I'll switch back 100% right now. I'm too used to these extension capabilities and the reliability Java gives me to give it up. Then again, getting Java to talk with libpurple via C++ has been quite the nightmare for me.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[lord_sarpedon]

Anything related to the UI sucks hard. App internals are fine. Wny didn't they adopt Qt for widgets? WHY?

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[moon3]

iPhone is Obj-C for Apple UI only, and that calls C functions at the end anyway.

C/C++ code works there, iPhone uses GCC. That makes iPhone much better development platform then Android, where you are given Java as a prime tool, good luck with that Google.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[moon3]

Do you even comprehend how many disadvantages you get with Java?

How much for example open source code is Java and how much is C/C++ ? They all have the choice, they all have chosen C/C++.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[Alex Belits]

I'm sure it compiles for ARM and x86. Last I heard an MIPs port was possible. Android is slated for phones and netbooks.

Modern phones run ARM, not x86 or MIPS. Even if it did, binaries for three architectures are a pretty easy task to handle, as it can be clearly seen in any Linux distribution's repository.

Netbooks? The last thing netbooks need is another crippled, provider-controlled OS that is barely sufficient to provide functionality usable on celphones. Previous generation of "netbooks" (when they were called PDA) was wiped out by a disease called Windows CE.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[binarylarry]

LOL, what?

Java has at least 10x the number of open source libraries as C/C++.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[moon3]

Java has at least 10x the number of open source libraries as C/C++

Ok, I laughed.

All major software for Office, CAD, Games, Design, photo-editing, CAM, operating systems, browsers all use C/C++ exclusively. All major libs use C/C++ exclusively.

Re:and a million things to hate about it

[GooberToo]

Modern phones run ARM, not x86 or MIPS.

Why are you making a distinction? Android is not limited to running on ARM-only phones. Period. Such a distinction is an artificial distinction your making for absolutely no reason what so ever.

Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[BadAnalogyGuy]

Wow! Video recording?!

What's next? Broadcast TV? True SMTP email? Intuitive UIs?

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[Anonymous Coward]

Yawn. If there were a market for 2001 "Japanese" cellphones in the U.S., then some smart Japanese company would have rolled them out by now. Clearly the iPhone has someone on them besides being "Apple".

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[LordLimecat]

True SMTP email? Intuitive UIs?

Because blackberries havent had those features for just about ever...?

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[Achromatic1978]

I love how "other mobile platforms" has become a synonym for "what the iPhone has/has not". My Nokia N95 has recorded video since the day it came out, 2 years ago. It allows 1 click publishing to Youtube. Hell, FOUR YEARS AGO, the N90 had a 270 degree swivel screen, and a separately 270 degree swivel lens capable of recording video. For that matter, the screen res was 352x416, the highest at the time, and still higher than most cells...

Just because something has a feature the Jesusphone doesn't, doesn't mean it is mindblowing and revolutionary...

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[10Ghz]

There's a difference between "having a feature" and "having a feature that's actually usable".

My Nokia E71 has loads of features. And most of them are so crummy and hard to use, that they might as well not exist. It has GPS. Which is so cumbersome to use that I never use it. It has web-browser. But browsing with it is so frustrating and clumsy that I only use it when I desperately need to check something online.

The thing is that when the iPhone was released, people compared it to other phones (like Nokias) and said "my phone has had those features for a long time already, how exactly is the iPhone "revolutioary?". But they fail to understand that it's not about list of checkboxes called "features", it's about features that people can actually use.

Like I said, my E71 has a web-browser. It also has WiFI. But for some reason I never use it for web-browsing at home through my Wifi, I use my iPod touch for that.

You can't compare phones (or any other devices for that matter) by staring at a piece of paper that lists their specs. You need to actually USE the devices to make that judgement. And the thing is that iPhone might not have every single bell and whistle some other phone has, but the bells and whistles it has. are so usable that people actually use them. Nokia has been piling features to their phones for years, but since they are implemented in such a crappy way, they go mostly unused.

If your phone has a feature that no-one uses, is it really a feature?

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[A12m0v]

Intuitive UIs still haven't reached Japan! Did you try using a Japanese cellphone? It the brainfuck of cellphones.

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[bytesex]

If your phone has a feature that no-one uses, is it really a feature?

Eh yes. Because sometimes, the use of a feature is also a function of the user's intelligence, training, awareness or needs. My mother might use my PC, but I'm pretty sure /she/ wouldn't touch the gcc installed on it. Yet my PC continues to 'feature' gcc.

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[mgblst]

. For that matter, the screen res was 352x416, the highest at the time, and still higher than most cells

Really, higher than 640x480, which some HTC and iPaq phones had 3 years ago? Looks like you are doing it as well, oh and btw, your nokia is a shitty phone. Tacking on everything bar the kitchen sink doesn't make it so great.

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[Ridgecity]

yeah, but does your phone have MEGABASS (SE W580)???

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[robzon]

"Hello I'd like to buy that Nokia phone. Is the 10-hour video recording traning session included in the price? And what's the minimum required IQ for the maps feature?"

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[robzon]

Yeah, exactly! In fact the phones are so unusable they tried to replace the text with little images resembling features of the phone, but kinda failed at it, too.

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[Anonymous Coward]

what a dumb of explanation

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[memoreks]

My HTC Touch HD does both the video recording and allows you to directly upload the video to Youtube, as did my HTC Touch Diamond before it. It's hardly a capability not found on other phones. FAIL

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem being that the N95 is a horrible horrible phone. Packed full of features but the user interface is fundamentally broken and it has more bugs than Windows ME. Both my iPhone and my father's G1 beat the snot out of the N95.

And before you ask yes I did have a N95. Using it made me want to dash it against a rock or similar hard object. I'm pretty sure I'll never buy a Nokia phone again because of it.

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[10Ghz]

"Eh yes."

In theory. perhaps. It's dishonest to say that "this product is equipped with feature X" if the feature in question is so clumsy, awkward and hard to use that no-one will use it. Sure, the company might be telling the truth in a literal sense, but people do know when they are being dealt in a dishonest way.

And no, it doesn't have to be about intelligence or anything of the sort. The feature can simply be so badly implemented that people simply do not want to use it. I think that having GPS in my phone is a neat idea and I was excited when I tried it out. But after few tries (I CAN make it work, that's not the issue here) it became obvious to me that the feature is so clumsy that I simply have no desire to use it.

Your GCC-example does not work, because developers obviously do not find GCC so hard to use or generally crappy that it's unusable. In other words, it's a feature that is actually used.

I maintain that if a feature goes unused, it's not really a feature. Seriously, what's the point of having feature X in a device, if it's not used? It might as well not exist at all.

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[Inda]

My POS phone could record video and share the results via MMS ten years ago. Big yawn.

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[dwater]

> If your phone has a feature that no-one uses, is it really a feature?

Except that people do use it. What makes you think people don't?

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[mdwh2]

Indeed :) I suspect that by "some of which can't be found on rival mobile platforms" they mean "is available on every other mobile phone that's been around for years, but can't be found on the Iphone". Since the Iphone gets so much hype despite lacking these basic features, you can't blame them for making a dig ;) (Though I do worry that consumer perception is being changed by this marketing, making them think that things like Internet access and video recording are new - but again, you've got Apple to blame for that too.)

What's next? Broadcast TV? True SMTP email? Intuitive UIs?

I look forward to copy/paste, MMS, tethering, and maybe there's this new fangled Java in the works too?

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[mdwh2]

Ah yes, it's the grumpy featurism claim.

Well my Motorola V980 phone is better than the Iphone. No, it doesn't do touchscreen or wifi, but that's just a "list of checkboxes", right? (It also does video recording simply by pointing and clicking - it Just Works.)

but since they are implemented in such a crappy way

* Installing an application from any site on my phone Just Works, it doesn't need the phone to be hacked.
* Tethering on my phone Just Works, it doesn't need the phone to be hacked.
* Copy and paste on my phone Just Works, I don't have to retype the material.

I've given you three objective examples of implementation. So let's hear your examples - I want evidence, not "crappy way". What sort of debate is that? I might as well say "My Amiga 500 is also better than any PC out there - who cares about feature lists, it's just better, it just is, honest, because I say so, anything else is just crappy." I like to think I can come to Slashdot for some intelligent debate, not "Who cares about features, it's just crappy".

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[Anonymous Coward]

What? Do you mean that a Japanese phone finally have an intuitive UI? Welcome to Japan circa 2050

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[PitaBred]

I'm gonna tell your mom you called her stupid!

Re:Welcome to Japan circa 2001

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm surprised you would say that about an E71 of all phones. The E71 has some of the highest reviews both critically and popularly of any cellphone I've ever seen, and in fact I was planning to purchase one.

devices? Since when

[Anonymous Coward]

android looks great, sounds great, blah blah.
When will there be more than one handheld for sale? How about on a network that actually works?
Everybody and their brother is 'working' on one but none of them ever seem to hit the market...

Android coming to Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Android phones are being released in Canada next month. Unfortunately they are only available through Rogers, puke!

Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

The IPhone has a lot of limitations, but the amount of apps for it makes it the killer device. The iphone has more quality apps than all other platforms have total apps combined. and the new hardware/software combo coming out in the next 2 months will make it even better.

until Android, winmo and BB get more and better apps and the ability to install over 10-20 apps on the device i'll probably buy a new iphone come july to complement my wife's iphone. even with all it's limitations.

this is almost exactly like the story with Windows in the 1990's. it was far from the best OS, but the amount of apps for it clinched it's success.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Nerdfest]

There were (and still are) plenty of apps for the Palm devices, but ultimately its limitations did it in. In many ways it had fewer limitations that the current iPhone does as well. The iPhone has better marketing though.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[ornil]

You must be joking. There's lots of apps for Android. Probably fewer than for iPhone, but not dramatically so. I was able to find an app for any task I needed.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize you are quoting Microsoft PC marketing from the 1990, right? Like the 1990's, a monopolist can claim the most applications. Like the 1990's, people with discerning tastes will look elsewhere. BB is already leading in new hardware sales. Enjoy the Apple hegemony while you can. One app at a time.

The IPhone has a lot of limitations, but the amount of apps for it makes it the killer device.

this is almost exactly like the story with Windows in the 1990's. it was far from the best OS, but the amount of apps for it clinched it's success.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[salesgeek]

Insightful? LOL. There was a time when there were more applications for Macintosh. From 1986 until 1990, Windows was irrelevant. Mac was the future.... Then Windows 3.x happened. History is repeating itself in front of our very eyes.

Flash forward to now. Apple has met it's match. And unlike with windows where Apple faced an cheaper, inferior product that was just barely good enough (Windows 3.x), Apple is facing a product that is it's equal in Android (yes, it's that good). As Samsung, Motorola, HTC, and others bring more Android hardware to market and Verizon, Sprint and other carriers offer Android to theri customers, the tide will turn quickly on software development as well.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[alen]

I looked at the android market website since I have an open mind until the new iPhone comes out next month. App store beats it. My wife's iphone has kids games on it along with flash cards for our son to play with. And come this summer you will be able to USe the iPhone to measure blood pressure and cholesterol.
I like listening to slacker and reading a book at the same time on my bb curve, but for a new personal cell I'll probably take the iPhone. New version will have nice 3d graphics almost as good as a console. Games suck on all the other phones

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[RiotingPacifist]

yup, shitloads of pointless apps, while there is in fact nothing (short of playin games) that you can't do on the competitors

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[carterhawk001]

For now, sure, but there are numerous android devices coming out and in development. When android devices outnumber iphones 5 to 1, we'll see which platform gets more love.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[cduffy]

New version will have nice 3d graphics almost as good as a console. Games suck on all the other phones

Funny you mention that -- Android includes an embedded OpenGL implementation.

I upgraded from a first-gen iPhone to an Android dev unit, and am generally quite pleased. It's unfortunate that support for the Bluetooth RFCOMM profile isn't exposed to application level yet -- but one of the things about Android is that it's reasonably straightforward to build a custom version of the firmware with the "hidden" flag turned off for those classes; on the iPhone, I'd just be waiting for 3.0, and then hoping they wouldn't require any device I want to make a serial connection to from my phone to be licensed as an iPhone accessory.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[sarathmenon]

You must be joking. There's lots of apps for Android. Probably fewer than for iPhone, but not dramatically so. I was able to find an app for any task I needed.

On all major mobile platforms I've used, I've been able to get apps for all the tasks I've needed. I don't have an iphone due to all the restrictions on the device, but whenever I see brilliantly made apps like this, I really want to go out and get one.

The success on the platform is due to the fact that there is a lot of choices in apps, and only very few of them suck. It's become the marketleader, and as much as I hate it, I have better success browsing the net using the Iphone user agent on my N810. The N810 has a good browser, that can render content better than the Iphone browser, but market share is why most sites choose to cater only to the iphone while making non-wap mobile sites.

Yes, I hate to say it as the next guy out here, but iphone is the unrivalled smartphone. Google and MS has to do a lot of catchup before they'll get to an iphone level of success.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[salesgeek]

I call BS. That's because At&t doesn't sock it to you for data, they get you on the special voice plans for iPhone. On iPhone you will pay a premium for voice service, where with a G-1 device you pay regular rates for voice service. The iPhone generally costs $600 over two years more than devices priced at standard At&t voice rates. That $200 iPhone is actually $800.

Also, the G-1 sells for $99 at Wal-Mart, so it is $100 less out of the box.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[lostmongoose]

You do realize you're not limited to just the apps on the android market right?

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[ScrewMaster]

Except the iPhone is the same price or cheaper than other similar phones. Every carrier charges the same for data

Really? I paid $179.00 for my G1, and my unlimited data plan is $24.95. So I don't know where you're getting your pricing information.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Culture20]

The IPhone has a lot of limitations, but the amount of apps for it makes it the killer device.

Free or pay apps? I recently started playing the free lemonade stand game until it started asking me marketing survey questions. Delete, 1 star. Want your OS/platform to sell well in the future? Allow people to make free (beer/speech) apps! And yes, requiring someone to spend money on the dev kit, and requiring their app to be approved is a significant barrier. Granted, I potentially like the vetting of something like the app store, but the process turns lots of things that could easily be free (rdesktop, SSH, games, etc) into pay or ad-supported apps.

The iphone has more quality apps than all other platforms have total apps combined.

Windows mobile/CE apps have been around for evers and evers. Add Java VM, and suddenly java apps are added to the mix. Not that I like Windows mobile, but it's got a lot more freedom.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Blakey Rat]

I like how the "killer feature" (according to T-Mobile's flash site on the phone) is that it tracks your carbon impact and you can buy carbon credits right from the phone! That's going to get me off my iPhone? That's seriously the best you got?

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[fractoid]

You must be joking. There's lots of apps for Android. Probably fewer than for iPhone, but not dramatically so. I was able to find an app for any task I needed.

And about gaming, I have plenty of games! Myst, Marathon... photoshop... :/

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love the typical apple users thinking... "their are more quality apps for the iphone than all other os. Total apps combined" and I've had winmo and android,. The average android user downloads 41 apps, that's per google.... get your facts straight or get off

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[cyn1c77]

Apple has met it's match... As Samsung, Motorola, HTC, and others bring more Android hardware to market and Verizon, Sprint and other carriers offer Android to their customers, the tide will turn quickly on software development as well.

People have been saying this since before the G1 came out, but the market numbers just aren't meeting these predictions yet. When are all these amazing phones going to arrive at my carrier (Verizon)? And how open is this Android thing really going to be? Google has already demonstrated that it is willing to pull certain apps that T-mobile doesn't like.

Verizon is one of the big players in the industry and last I heard, it was backing away from Android. But think of the carnage Verizon would wreak on an open-source platform. (We both know they would lock it down so hard you couldn't do anything useful with it anyway.)

AT&T is the other big player and they have a conflict of interest with their iPhone, for now at least.

Currently, Android seems a lot like Linux. It's theoretically open source, but it has limited industry support and is only available on (extremely) limited hardware. But the key difference is that the cell phone industry is dominated by the carriers, who don't seem fully sold on it yet and it's not like we can just go ahead and replace our phone's OS without voiding all sorts of warranties and support.

I do hope this changes with time though. And for what it's worth, I have emailed Verizon and urged them to adopt the OS, but I am not holding my breath.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

You stole my post. Dead on.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Buelldozer]

"The iphone has more quality apps than all other platforms have total apps combined."

No. Not even close. In your utterance of that hyperbole you've given away your fanboi status.

The numbers on this are a bit difficult to track down but it's very clear that the IPhone is nowhere near WinMo and you can absolutely forget about it if you combine Palm and Symbian application numbers.

Here's a quick rundown.

In late July of LAST year WinMo _alone_ had 18K applications.

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/07/windows_mobile_7.html

Some estimates put Palm at 80,000 back in ***2005***.

http://www.pocketprof.org/running_palm_os_software.htm

Symbian numbers are very difficult to come up with but a low ballpark would be 10,000 of them.

The IPhone currently has about 15,000 applications listed in the app store ( http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/so-many-iphone-apps-so-little-time/ ).

It's clear that your statement isn't anywhere near true.

Please leave some of Mr. Jobs AHEM for his wife, sir.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

On the contrary, I wish the iPhone had a lot of apps that you'll only find on Windows Mobile.

You're not limited to 10-20 apps. ...I have 30-40.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

For the tech savvy users who have root access on their Android device, one can create an ext2 partition on their SD card to expand the phones perceived memory (where apps are stored). I have a 16GB microSD (Class 6) card in my G1, 512MB of which is dedicated to "phone" memory for storing applications and their settings/configurations.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[salesgeek]

We'll see in the next eight weeks as Samsung and Motorola roll out their products. Android is not what a lot of people think, so far as openness - it can be as open or closed as any other phone. The value prop on Android is more to hardware manufacturers who no longer want to manager their own OS or pay tons of royalties to for an OS.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Professor_UNIX]

What on earth are you talking about? The voice plans for the iPhone are exactly the same as for any other AT&T phone. When I bought my iPhone the only extra charge was the $20 data plan. My voice plan stayed exactly the same.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[UnknowingFool]

The iPhone generally costs $600 over two years more than devices priced at standard At&t voice rates.

I call BS. Apple has no special voice plans for the iPhone that are "a premium". It's the same rate as every other phone on AT&T. The minimum you will pay for a new plan on AT&T is $39.99 for 450 minutes.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Qwavel]

I agree with you that the lack of RFCOMM (and bluetooth in general) support for applications is too bad, and pretty wierd actually. All Nokia, SE, and Blackberry phones have supported this for years now. Even the iPhone will be getting this soon.

All I can do is wait and hope they add this to Android 2.0. The fact that I can rebuild the OS to fix that doesn't really help me.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[tuna_wasabi]

The iphone [sic] has more quality apps than all other platforms have total apps combined.

[Citation Needed]

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[s73v3r]

Really? I would think that being able to rebuild the OS and fix it would help. Because you'd actually be able to enable it and use it on your phone.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[pudro]

I don't have an iphone due to all the restrictions on the device, but whenever I see brilliantly made apps like this, I really want to go out and get one.

The lame part is that it requires a prop. As you may or may not know, you can't just do that with any rolled up dollar bill, as the touch-screen uses conductivity instead of pressure. You have to stick something in the end of the dollar bill for it to register the touching. (Look closely in the video and you can see it.) The site makes no mention of this. I wonder how many people buy that app then get pissed off when their "snorting" doesn't register. (Also, as they are clearly British (even beyond charging in pounds instead of dollars), why are they using American money for their snorting?)

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[shmlco]

I don't think that spending $99 is going to force someone to produce a paid application instead of a free one.

And actually, I suspect instead that the real motivation is the somewhat heretical idea (stay with me here) that you can make MONEY writing applications for the iPhone. Get enough people to give you a buck an app, and in some cases you can make a LOT of money doing so.

Writing iPhone applications is a difficult, skilled process that can take a lot of time. Supporting and improving said application can also burn the hours. So if someone wants a buck or two in compensation, I, for one, am not going to cry over it. Especially if it means a steady supply of cheap and useful applications, games, and utilities.

But if YOU want to spend a week or month or more writing an iPhone application and then give it away for free, more power to you.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Achromatic1978]

And how open is this Android thing really going to be? Google has already demonstrated that it is willing to pull certain apps that T-mobile doesn't like.

Odd. I mean it's not like Apple would do exactly the same thing over apps AT&T don't like...

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[binarylarry]

This is some FUD for sure.

When I bought my G1, I had to chose the "bronze" one because the white and black phones were sold out.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[pudro]

iPhones (at least when bought through AT&T for a lower subsidized price) require that you also get an unlimited data plan for $30 (labeled as "DATA PLAN IPHONE" - implying to me that it is different than their other data plans) - so the minimum is actually about $70. (The data plan used to be $20, but was raised to $30 when the iPhone with 3G was rolled out.)

Do other carriers require similar things for Android phones? To be clear, this is a serious question, as I don't know. I'm not knocking the iPhone - I own one. My last bill was just under $84. That is the minimum plan plus the lowest (200 texts) $5 texting plan (again, labeled as "IPHONE TXT MSG 200" - implying to me that it is different than their other texting plans) plus all taxes and other regular monthly charges. How does that compare to Android phones minimums, even with unlimited data on other carriers?

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[pudro]

To be clear, those plan labels I mentioned are how they are labeled on my bill.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[s73v3r]

Developers can make free (beer/speech) apps. Developers can also choose to make an app where they ask marketing questions. Many people decide to make an app, give it away for free, and support development with ads. Is it so bad that someone wants to make money?

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Want your OS/platform to sell well in the future? Allow people to make free (beer/speech) apps!

Because that worked so well for Nokia and the N800/810? I mean, you can't turn around without seeing somebody with one of those!

And gosh, look how Linux totally dominates Windows.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[R3d M3rcury]

The IPhone has a lot of limitations, but the amount of apps for it makes it the killer device. The iphone has more quality apps than all other platforms have total apps combined.

You're right. Until I can make my Android phone into a fart machine, a tip calculator, or a flashlight, I'm buying an iPhone.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[cduffy]

I agree with you that the lack of RFCOMM (and bluetooth in general) support for applications is too bad, and pretty wierd actually. [...]
All I can do is wait and hope they add this to Android 2.0. The fact that I can rebuild the OS to fix that doesn't really help me.

It does help me, as it means I can build the rest of my app on a "real phone", then port it to the final public API when that becomes available. Then again, your project may be more time-critical -- mine is more of a hobby, so it can afford to be on hold for a while.

In any event, as RFCOMM was deferred to focus on A2DP, and A2DP is now released as of 1.5, I expect it plumbed through in the next release cycle.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

.. don't you mean '15,000 finished apps - with enough polish to pass review' ?.. they do have that whole nazi-review thing but it's meant I think that what's going in to app store is generally more 'complete' than a lot of the winmo stuff.

I bought an omnia and hated it. After two weeks of absolute rage trying to merely use the thing to make phone calls I bought an iphone. I'm still trying to sell the omnia, it will have cost me a significant amount.

My biggest reason for changing it is the omnia was just flat-out unusable as a day to day phone. Doing nearly anything would take you clicking porbably five different widgets that might be 3px x 3px with your finger on a touchscreen. This became infuriating. At least with the iphone experience they got right that you don't need to worry about missing. Winmo6.1 must honestly be amongst the worst O.S.'s I've ever used because of the U.I. and before anyone points out it - this was both with and without the omnia version of the u.i. - i tried without it and the device was a lot snappier, but still terrible to use.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[mgblst]

Make sure you keep it a secret who you are with then, dickhead, who knows what would happen if you told us stuff like that.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[R3d M3rcury]

Well, one difference is that you could buy a CDMA Android Phone and take it to Verizon and buy a plan. You don't have to do the "bundled" phone thing.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that what he means is that, if you want to produce and sell and app that uses that feature, then expecting the end user to either build their own version of the O/S or even just install your custom build doesn't make for a very good business plan.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[stonertom]

I looked at the android market website since I have an open mind until the new iPhone comes out next month. App store beats it.

Not all the apps in the market are on the website. It's more to give an idea of what's available.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[enjo13]

Simply not true. Nokia S60 has a veritable ton of apps available. Palm has roughly a billion.

It's not quantity, it's quality of experience. Neither Nokia nor Palm have really made the process of locating and buying apps very easy. The iPhone has.

Google has built a promising system for Android, and as they get more phones to market you'll see more and more applications built for it. I think this battle is going to be fought on balancing 'open' versus 'reliable'. Is apple right? Can developers not be trusted to build high quality applications if the phone is largely open?

Time will tell.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[debatem1]

It's a G1, genius- that would mean T-Mobile.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[infinityxi]

That was nokia's own fault. It seemed like they were afraid to market it or even get any sort of word out there. I own a Nokia N800 and I think the only reason I found out about it was through amazon. There is and has been virtually a non-existent marketing budget for those product lines so of course no one is going to buy it compared to the iphone which gets advertised every 20 minutes etc. As far as the apps go for the N800, most of them were really just ports of common linux apps like pidgin and shell utilities and a few native programs written in python.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

And for what it's worth, I have emailed Verizon and urged them to adopt the OS, but I am not holding my breath.

Chin up. They are probably still assessing all those emails. It's going to take time to process that much data.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

iPhones (at least when bought through AT&T for a lower subsidized price) require that you also get an unlimited data plan for $30 (labeled as "DATA PLAN IPHONE" - implying to me that it is different than their other data plans) - so the minimum is actually about $70. (The data plan used to be $20, but was raised to $30 when the iPhone with 3G was rolled out.)

Do other carriers require similar things for Android phones? To be clear, this is a serious question, as I don't know. I'm not knocking the iPhone - I own one. My last bill was just under $84. That is the minimum plan plus the lowest (200 texts) $5 texting plan (again, labeled as "IPHONE TXT MSG 200" - implying to me that it is different than their other texting plans) plus all taxes and other regular monthly charges. How does that compare to Android phones minimums, even with unlimited data on other carriers?

I've got a G1 from T-Mobile, my last bill was $83.09 for unlimited everything. The cheapest plan would be about $55 total, $30 for voice and $25 for txt/data. You are required to get a data plan, either $25 for 400 txts or $35 for unlimited.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[xaxa]

Also, as they are clearly British (even beyond charging in pounds instead of dollars), why are they using American money for their snorting?)

It's funnier.

(Or maybe he's a poor basement-dwelling nerd, and doesn't have a £20 note, which is the stereotypical British cocaine snorting pipe).

But do people seriously pay £5 for crap like that? Yesterday I saw a group of teenagers on a train messing about with a virtual pint on an iPhone, and I assumed it was free. If they'll pay, then I just need an idea...

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[cbhacking]

Some of Nokia's devices use a modified Debian (compiled for ARM, with a window manager intended for small screens) that includes apt (with a graphical front-end) and can run the build toolchain. While the selection of pre-compiled apps is certainly not as good as desktop Linux, a surprising number of them are available, including some that I've seen on no other smartphone/PDA (try AdBlock Plus, full Adobe Flash with desktop-like-capabilities, Pidgin, etc.) For anything not yet ported, you can cross-compile (and put up your own .deb or even repository online) or simply install the build toolchain, extract the tarball, and compile in place (no jailbreaking required - it comes with xterm and the ability to gain root, although by default stuff runs as user like it should). There is no lack of good software for mobile devices; the iPhone just makes a big deal out of it (and restricts you in ridiculous ways, like forcing you to use WebKit).

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[tyrione]

I don't think that spending $99 is going to force someone to produce a paid application instead of a free one.

And actually, I suspect instead that the real motivation is the somewhat heretical idea (stay with me here) that you can make MONEY writing applications for the iPhone. Get enough people to give you a buck an app, and in some cases you can make a LOT of money doing so.

Writing iPhone applications is a difficult, skilled process that can take a lot of time. Supporting and improving said application can also burn the hours. So if someone wants a buck or two in compensation, I, for one, am not going to cry over it. Especially if it means a steady supply of cheap and useful applications, games, and utilities.

But if YOU want to spend a week or month or more writing an iPhone application and then give it away for free, more power to you.

Your lack of ObjC/Cocoa experience is showing if it's an arduous task.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[RotHorseKid]

but the amount of apps for it makes it the killer device

A Nintendo DSi Killer, maybe. Most stuff on the Appstore is games, and more games. The iPhone is becoming the mobile gaming device of choice right now. As for tech-savvy users who see the possibilities in the mobile internet, the iPhone is becoming less interesting, because it is locked down that much. I expect the next innovations in how we use the mobile internet to happen on Android devices.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[totally bogus dude]

Fuck me that's bizarre. I've had Symbian phones for ages and they have loads of apps available for them, but I pretty much don't buy any because I've found that 99% of the time I use it a few times and then never touch it again. And that's for things that actually seem useful at first.

iSnort? Maybe the poster that linked to that as an example of why they wanted an iPhone was taking the piss. Why not just use a drawing application to draw some white chalky lines on a black background and then switch to the eraser tool? Why would you pay 5 anythings for that app?

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Currently, Android seems a lot like Linux. It's theoretically open source, but it has limited industry support and is only available on (extremely) limited hardware. But the key difference

WTF? So are you saying Linux is theoretically open source, have limited industry support and is only available on (extremely) limited hardware??

This is insane!
Linux *IS* opensource, it is used everywhere on industry from divX players, office routers to high performance servers and clusters. It is also the OS with most hardware support (if we take in account legacy stuff).

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[cdrudge]

Fart Machine
Tip Calculator
Flashlight

Looks like Android and iPhone are about even these days with their killer apps...

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Miamicanes]

Honestly, how is Tmo's data service -- both in big cities (like Miami, Orlando, Dallas, etc) and the hinterlands in between (say, in a car/train on an interstate/rural tracks while traveling between two cities through hardcore rural territory with lots of traffic... say, Miami->Orlando)?

I want an Android phone in the worst way, but I'm way too fond of Sprint's data network for my own good. I openly tether (I don't travel often enough to pay for a dedicated wireless modem, but often enough for the $15 extra I pay for "Phone as Modem" so I can tether my phone to my laptop to be easily worth every cent), and use both Google Maps and Opera Mobile daily. Unfortunately, Sprint STILL has no native Android phone, the best port (for the Touch/Vogue) doesn't do Bluetooth or GPS (no bluetooth is a killer... my cell phone is my real phone, and MUST be able to pair with my cordless phone at home and the stereo in my car), and it looks like the only Android phone likely to see the light of day in SprintLand this summer is an iSlab-like brick devoid of real buttons.

Put another way, I like the G1, but have serious qualms about the network it's tied to as a practical matter (the G1 doesn't do 850MHz & is incompatible with AT&T's 3G data network, right? And even if it WERE, based on the bitching from iPhone users I assume THEIR 3G data is even worse than T-Mo's...). And of course, Verizon, even if it HAD an Android phone, manages to fatally-flaw and cripple every phone it sells into uselessness... and if they didn't, their Nazi TOS officially prohibit just about everything besides web browsing.

Argh. Sorry about the frustrated rant. I hate my current phone, but it seems like the best alternatives to it available at the moment merely suck less and in different ways than my current phone (HTC Touch). At this point I'm looking for an excuse to throw in the towel and buy a G1, but two years is a LONG time to be tied to a carrier if T-Mo ends up sucking miserably compared to Sprint. Oh, also... is it really necessary to buy a full-priced dev phone, or can the subsidized ones still be rooted with trivial ease?

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[miknix]

In late July of LAST year WinMo _alone_ had 18K applications.

Does it matters? Most of WinMo apps are utter crap. The platform itself isn't good for any specific purpose.

Seriously, I find my old Nokia N-Gage with Symbian more useful to make calls and manage contacts than my WinMo device.

So lets all assume the platform is more useful for non-phone applications. But it isn't!

The IE browser is totally useless, it cannot render correctly most pages (meaning that you cannot really surf them).
The embedded "office" is a joke, even the MSN messenger is so badly designed that makes me feel totally annoyed with constant popup windows (people login/logoff) that steals the window manager focus.

IM+ is a very good replacement for default mobile MSN messenger. There is also skyfire that renders your pages on their servers and sends you layered jpegs, it works very nice but has privacy issues.
So what can we tell when third party apps are better than platform bundled ones? We can tell that after spending 600â on a HTC phone with WinMob, we need to spend a lot more buying apps to make the brand new phone near useful.
It makes sense, doesn't it?

If everything wasn't bad enough, the bundled messaging app is always crashing. Activesync (which I don't really use) starts up randomly for no reason on the phone at starts hogging the cpu.

Then there is also stupid design issues like when the phone is getting with low battery. In this case, WinMo likes to awake the device from his low power state to inform me that the device is low power. Of course it would be enough to tell me this once, but it doesn't. It turns on every 10 minutes or so.

This is only what I could remember from the top of my head, but I assure you, there is a lot more.
I didn't dumped the device just because I'm actually enjoying hacking Linux into it:
http://linwizard.sourceforge.net/

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[intheshelter]

Probably fewer? The iPhone has over 40,000 apps available now and still climbing quickly. Does Android have even 10% of that?

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[UnknowingFool]

To address your first point, every iPhone requires a $30 data plan. But that was not what the OP was stating. He stated the voice plan was more expensive which is not true. Voice plans for the iPhone are the same as every other phone. The 2.5G data plan costs $20 on AT&T. The 3G data plan on AT&T costs $30. This plan rate is the same for every 3G phone whether it is a Blackberry or Windows Mobile.

To address your other point, I don't know specifically about the Android, I do know that most other carriers require a data plan if you get a smartphone. On Verizon, it is clear that you must purchase their $30 data plan when you get a Blackberry. There maybe legal and technical differences between the iPhone plans and other plans; however, they do not cost any more than other AT&T plans.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[12345Doug]

I got mine at Costco about 2 Months ago for $110. Glad I did. I love the phone. The only issue I have with the hardware is that every connection goes through the USB Port. Power, Audio, ummmm......you get the point. What makes that less than desirable is when in my car I can't charge and listen to at the same time.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[mdwh2]

Looks like it supports Java, unlike the Iphone, so if nothing else it can draw on a large existing base of applications, without requiring applications to be specifically written for it. This is a good thing in my opinion - one of the nice things about phones, unlike desktop computers, is that we've finally broken away from this problem where every phone is incompatible with each other. Or so I thought - then the Iphone came along.

(It's funny to see people showing off all amazed that their expensive new Iphone can do mapping software. I then get out my 5 year old phone that was cheap low-end when I bought it, and fire up Google Maps...)

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Jellybob]

How do you guys deal with such crappy mobile operators?

My G1 was free, on a £30 a month contract. Annoyingly that only comes with 2Gb of data, but I've only hit that once, when I first got it, and used it for everything.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[mdwh2]

Excellent point - whatever happened to "Think Different"?

Well I am thinking different - that's why I don't have an Ipod, Iphone or a Mac...

(Although in this case, the Iphone is not in any kind of monopoly position, it's just a niche in the mobile phone market - it only gets hype about the Iphone only applications because of the app store, and not supporting industry standards like Java, so apps for it have to be Iphone only.)

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[GooberToo]

and the ability to install over 10-20 apps on the device

Not sure where you get that delusion. Probably been drinking the iPhone propaganda too much. If you have an ADP1, you can easily have well over two hundred apps installed. the limit is technically limited only by the size of available micro-SDs. Obviously that's the exception. For a normal user, you can easily have fifty plus applications installed. If you play games much, that number will drop somewhere into the high thirties to mid forties.

Most people don't have a need for more than a couple dozen applications over and above what already comes on the phone.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[mdwh2]

I agree with you on phones, though I'm not convinced that "Mac was the future" back then - even though Windows may have been dire, it was still true that PCs were dominant in business, leaving other platforms such as Mac, Amiga, to other markets.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[GooberToo]

Android has exceeded or kept pace with the iPhone's sells during the same period of time and it has done so during a recession (borderline depression). Simply stated, by 2012 the iPhone platform is easily slated to become the minority platform.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[CompMD]

"Android seems a lot like Linux."

Uh, because it is...

From my ADP1:

$ uname -a
Linux localhost 2.6.27-00392-g8312baf #25 PREEMPT Fri May 1 01:14:35 CDT 2009 armv61 unknown

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[DaleGlass]

That's not a "brilliantly made app", it's a video.

If you look closely it's easy to see that the lines disappear much before the rolled up bill reaches them.

Also, as people say, the iphone can't detect credit cards and dollar bills anyway.

And the author admits in the youtube comments that it's just a video, and it "works" by you learning to go through the motions with the right timing.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[GooberToo]

People have been saying this since before the G1 came out, but the market numbers just aren't meeting these predictions yet.

Stop drinking the Apple BS. Actually the Android platform has been on par or exceeding predictions. Most (all? I've not read any which say otherwise) industry predictions are placing the iPhone behind Android by 2012.

When are all these amazing phones going to arrive at my carrier (Verizon)?

I'd guess this Summer (IIRC), bsaed on their slated release dates. And then again come Winter.

And how open is this Android thing really going to be?

Perhaps as open as the definition means? You're only confused because you've been drinking Apples propaganda.

Google has already demonstrated that it is willing to pull certain apps that T-mobile doesn't like.

They pulled applications from T-Mobile's version of the market. Non-T-Mobile users are completely unaffected. And unlike the iPhone market, you can install third party applications all day long and never even visit the Android Market.

Unless your application in question requires root access, it doesn't matter one bit what the carrier dis-allows on their market as you can always download it elsewhere.

Android is completely open save only for the firmware and radio - but that's not part of the platform in the first place. And if you want to be nasty about it, then your PC isn't open either so long as your running AMI/Pheonix, etc BIOS. Android is the definition of open.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I paid $199 for my iphone, and $30 for my unlimited data plan. Certainly not less, but definition close enough to be considered roughly the same. Especially since T-Mobile doesn't have 3G in my area yet.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[dbcad7]

Verizon is one of the big players in the industry and last I heard, it was backing away from Android. But think of the carnage Verizon would wreak on an open-source platform. (We both know they would lock it down so hard you couldn't do anything useful with it anyway.)

As long as you use CDMA providers like Verizon or Sprint.. you will always be at the mercy of the hardare (and software on that hardware) that THEY choose to let you use... I imagine the real reason the i-phone is on ATT (GSM) and not Verizon (CDMA) is because the majority of the world uses GSM.. and heck that's the market I want as a phone manufacturer... The difference is, that changing phones with a GSM carrier is as simple as buying another GSM phone and putting the sim chip into the new one.(more or less)

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[GooberToo]

And if you shop hard, you can find deals as cheap as $79 for a G1 and TM contract.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[GooberToo]

You can get a G1 for as little as $79 bucks. The data plan is $10/mo cheaper than AT&T's. Over two years that's a difference of $360. No one who understands basic math would call that "close enough" or "roughly the same."

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I really enjoy having a G1, and I'll add my vote to the people who say 'It has a lot of apps already, with more rolling out every day' (adding on a 'becoming an Android developer is cheaper/more open than becoming an iPhone developer' rider). That being said, the iPhone does have something I haven't been able to get with the G1: multiple gigs of memory that can be used by apps. I have a 2GB microSD card in there right now, and the only things I've been able to store on it are media files.

Someone else on /. may have a good way around that, but until they tell me how to put apps on the card instead of the paltry internal phone memory, I'm forced to give that point to the big Apple.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[GooberToo]

I imagine the real reason the i-phone is on ATT (GSM) and not Verizon (CDMA)

Then you would be wrong. The iPhone has created hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue for AT&T. Verizon has been working hard to get some of the iPhone action. They've been completely unsuccessful. Many believe Verizon's big push behind Android is their "F-U" response to AT&T and Apple for not sharing. Expect Verizon to push Android very hard.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[SighKoPath]

The cheapest available plans from T-Mo are:
300 minutes voice w/ free weekends (it doesn't include free nights): $30
Unlimited 3G data with 400 texts (they might throttle you to 2G speeds with "excessive usage"): $25

So, the minimum monthly cost is $55. Probably about $60 with taxes and fees.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[SCHecklerX]

quantity != quality. "Need to do something already covered better with something else? There's an app for that!" "Want to display a screen-scraping interface to a web page? There's an app for that!" When do you guys get a real chat client that doesn't sign you off when you move to another screen? Oops.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[SighKoPath]

Eh, might as well throw in some full-disclosure. I've been using the G1 since launch, and am very happy with it. I'm paying for the $40 voice plan (600 min, unlim nights/weekends) and the $35 data plan (3G, unlim texts). With taxes/fees, my bill is $82.02 this month.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[BlackCreek]

Oh, also... is it really necessary to buy a full-priced dev phone, or can the subsidized ones still be rooted with trivial ease?

Rooting the OS is trivial for US consumers. You have to install the older hackable firmwares, root, and then upgrade to "rooted" images (or the ADP image itself). Check the XDA forums on the "Dream" for the information on how to do that with the G1.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple has met it's match.

If you think that is its match, I can't wait to see where you will put the Palm Pre. Now that is a match.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[shmlco]

Writing a good application in ANY language is a difficult task. Period.

And writing a good iPhone applications, given the physical constraints of the device and the necessity of adhering to the UI conventions, all while the OS itself is a moving target, is an ESPECIALLY difficult task.

Sorry, but your lack of DEVELOPMENT experience is showing if you think it's anything but an arduous task. Hacking a few lines of ObjC/Cocoa is the least of your problems.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[mrsteele]

Crappy devices and development stagnation did the Palm line in. When the iPhone launched it looked exactly what Palm *should* have done with their devices.

I loved Palm 8-10 years ago, and I wrote several apps for my own personal use, but I stopped being interested in them when the entire marketplace passed them by.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Kelson]

FWIW, I have 57 apps on my G1. Of those, I've downloaded and installed at least 35 of them. And there are plenty more apps in the market that I haven't tried.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Miamicanes]

> As long as you use CDMA providers like Verizon or Sprint..
> you will always be at the mercy of the hardare (and software on that hardware)
> that THEY choose to let you use

Unfortunately, it's not quite that cut and dried. GSM lets you use any phone you stick your SIM in? Great... as long as you don't mind buying an $800 GPRS paperweight. AT&T's 3G network is 850MHz. T-Mobile's is 1750/2250. European 3G is 1950/2150. Unless the phone in question was explicitly designed to work on AT&T or T-Mobile, it's going to be useless for anything besides voice calls and text messages in the US. Some imported phones can't even do EDGE in the US. Will that eventually change? Hopefully. But right now, today, in mid-2009, America's two GSM operators are every bit as proprietary as Sprint and Verizon.

Making things worse is the fact that AT&T and T-Mobile's data networks basically suck at the moment, with regard to both coverage AND performance. It won't be like that forever (hopefully), and will probably be a lot better 6-18 months from now... but right now -- in mid-2009 -- they still mostly suck. Even if you're lucky enough to have decent 3G coverage in the city where you live, you're going to be suffering with EDGE or GPRS the moment you hit anyplace remotely rural.

The only companies that have anything remotely resembling high-speed wireless almost everywhere east of the Mississippi, and everywhere halfway urban west of it, are Sprint and Verizon. Of the two, Sprint is marginally less evil... but it's kind of like saying that HD-DVD was slightly less evil than Blu-Ray. Neither one supports R-UIM cards, and I have yet to hear about anyone getting a 100% foreign Chinese CDMA phone to do voice, text, AND EV-DO on Verizon (I've heard of a few who've gotten voice to work, but even text messages fail due to Verizon's nonstandard encoding). And, of course, short of somehow cloning a "real" Sprint phone's ESN to make it LOOK like a genuine Sprint phone to their network (breaking a few dozen MAJOR federal laws in the process that the FBI *does* tend to enforce rather aggressively), using a non-Sprint phone on Sprint isn't going to happen, period. (Sprint's "marginally less-evil" status comes from the fact that they don't forbid just about everything besides casual web browsing in their TOS).

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Buelldozer]

It matters in the context of the A.C's assertion that there were more quality applications for the IPhone than existed for all other platforms combined.

That statement was demonstrably false.

WinMo has many negatives, but it also has some positives. For instance it is a totally free development platform and applications can be purchased from anywhere. This is a far cry from Apple's closed door policy and censorship of their app store and the hardware itself.

Additionally my post didn't ONLY address WinMo. It also addressed Symbian and Palm.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Dog-Cow]

Indeed. I've written one app for the iPhone/iPod Touch and I would still say I'm mostly ignorant where ObjC/Cocoa are considered. And yet I'd never say it was hard to write.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[DragonWriter]

There was a time when there were more applications for Macintosh.

No, there wasn't.

From 1986 until 1990, Windows was irrelevant.

Right. But because the vast majority of apps were for DOS without Windows, not because they were for Mac. In fact, many of the Windows applications didn't require Windows (which had almost no market penetration) but bundled a Windows runtime.

Then Windows 3.x happened.

And then instead of DOS without Windows, the vast majority of apps were for DOS with Windows.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[CZakalwe]

Wow really? I've been on a really old Nokia for ages, I'm talking one of the old dot matrix LCD ones here! I R very poor baboon! I never realised there were phones like that around. While I agree that being forced to use anything sucks balls, being forced to use Webkit is hardly torture, it is pretty good at it's job!

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Trust me, Android phones will come to Verizon. Probably sooner than you expect.

2. Verizon put out something called the ODI (Open Device Initiative) that lists all the specs the h/w and s/w must meet to be allowed into the Verizon network. Locking up the s/w like hell isn't one of the specs.

So Verizon doesn't need to officially acknowledge going with Android. There are enough h/w manufacturers looking to sell Android phones and nothing beats selling a handset for the biggest network.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[salesgeek]

If you count DOS applications, sure, the PC had more apps back then. But when you only include windowed GUI applications, the Mac had a distinct edge for quite some time over the PC. Like you said, Windows had almost no market penetration. Mac had 10-13% market share back then.

There is a good point somewhere in what you said:

Backwards DOS compatibility made the transition to Windows a lot easier than moving to Mac. Because of the overall limited nature and general suckiness of existing Java ME and BREW applications, I'm not sure that backwards compatibility is even remotely an issue with smartphones.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[ckaminski]

The continued platform fuckups Palm managed to do in the PalmOS as a viable platform - it had no evolutionary chance. It's why I'm marginally waiting for the Pre. I *LIKE* the treo style keyboard with a full/widescreen G1 style screen.

I like the BB storm, but want a keyboard... a real keyboard.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[ckaminski]

And who, pray tell, is making one of these fabled CDMA G1s? Is TMo CDMA?

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[ScrewMaster]

I got mine at Costco about 2 Months ago for $110. Glad I did. I love the phone. The only issue I have with the hardware is that every connection goes through the USB Port. Power, Audio, ummmm......you get the point. What makes that less than desirable is when in my car I can't charge and listen to at the same time.

Well, it's pain, true ... but I bought a tiny little adapter on Ebay for about $3 that gives you a mini-USB and an audio jack. Works well enough.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[ScrewMaster]

You can get a G1 for as little as $79 bucks. The data plan is $10/mo cheaper than AT&T's. Over two years that's a difference of $360. No one who understands basic math would call that "close enough" or "roughly the same."

True ... but then again, most Apple owners don't understand basic math when it applies to their favorite computer company. Note to Apple fans: I'm not slamming Apple's products ... I'm slamming you.

Re:Are there more than 20 apps for it?

[dbcad7]

The difference is, that you can shop for phones outside of the ones provided by the carrier.. Yes you have to be smart about it and look for proper 3G compatibility.. but these compatibility decisions are made by the various phone manufactures not the carrier, and some cover more bases than others.

Re:devices? Since when

[salesgeek]

Six weeks. Samsung and Moto have product releases scheduled, as does HTC.

And the #1 feature to love in Cupcake...

[Anonymous Coward]

is not on the list. It's JesusFreke's super-special version (this version based on the HTC build). If you've rooted your phone or have the developer root-enabled "ADP" version, you'll definitely want it.

Features include:

* Everything in regular HTC cupcake, plus...
* Netfilter support in the kernel
* multitouch "pinching" support in the browser
* A superuser app for "blessing" other apps to access root stuff
* Support for the apps-to-SD hack
* busybox in the shell (included)
* none of the crappy space-stealing applications bundled by your phone company you never use

Sure you could add all this stuff yourself, but why?

Install at your own risk.

Exciting but still unappealing & limited hardw

[blahbooboo]

I really like Android as concept. Unfortunately, in the USA the number of devices are not very appealing (the ones that are available). My carrier doesn't even have android phones. Strange, because the whole point of Android I figured was to allow manufacturers to focus on innovative cell phone designs. Maybe manufacturers will eventually make more phones with Android, but right now they are kinda lousy IMHO.

Until better hardware, the future is Palm Pre or iPhone

Re:android sucks

[4D6963]

android and everything google does, sucks.

i hate google, gmail, youtube, etc. fuck'em

A most compelling argument, I am convinced!!

Missing Enterprise Feature

[PaisteUser]

The OS is still missing native MS Exchange support. Our company currently utilizes T-Mobile as a wireless provider and this is the single biggest hangup from us deploying the G1 handsets. I do realize that there are 3rd party apps that provide this functionality, but that gets expensive when you roll out 100+ devices.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[salesgeek]

Actually, you have the issue backwards. Your selection of MS-Exchange as a messaging platform has limited the financially viable choices available to your firm to basically, Windows Mobile. Don't blame your vendor lock in on anyone other than your messaging vendor and the person who decided to buy MS-Exchange. You didn't HAVE TO do it.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[jcnnghm]

Actually, you have the issue backwards. Your selection of MS-Exchange as a messaging platform has limited the financially viable choices available to your firm to basically, Windows Mobile. Don't blame your vendor lock in on anyone other than your messaging vendor and the person who decided to buy MS-Exchange. You didn't HAVE TO do it.

Exchange != Sendmail. Which free groupware package do you recommend?

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Might find some alternatives here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_collaborative_software

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[SaDan]

Good list, and I highly recommend Zimbra. I've had the distinct pleasure of implementing Zimbra for an ISP that had a few decent sized corporate customers. Once a few of them saw what we were providing for all of our subscribers, they asked about setting up corporate accounts with us (switching their corporate domain MX records to point at our servers, etc), and dumped their Exchange systems.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[jcnnghm]

Zimbra actually costs more than Exchange for the same feature set. Why pay more for less.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[salesgeek]

No, it doesn't when you factor in a license of MS office or outlook for every user. Also, vendor lock in is missing from zimbra's feature set.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[jcnnghm]

Outlook licenses are included with Exchange.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Humm my Nokia E51 has Mail for Exhchange...

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[trawg]

How do you figure that?

Zimbra for a 50 seat license: US$1,400

Exchange 2007 Standard with 5 CALs: AUD$2234 (USD1,714.93 at the time of writing).

The site I'm looking at only has CALs available in units of 5, and they're USD$576 for a block of 5.

And that's just a CAL - do you need a license for Outlook as well? I thought you did.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[shutdown -p now]

Your selection of MS-Exchange as a messaging platform has limited the financially viable choices available to your firm to basically, Windows Mobile

Ever heard of BlackBerry? They don't run WinMo...

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[perryizgr8]

some symbian based phones just a few moths ago got their firmware updated to include buiilt-in exchange support. why did ms let them do it and not android? yes, because google does not want you to use ms. it wants to promote its own shitty, unreliable gmail and apps.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[Tony Hoyle]

..and on Android you just install TouchDown and get full exchange support.

Google provide gmail, but they (unlike apple) don't restrict what apps people are able to write for the phone, so that kind of lockin just doesn't happen.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Google Apps for My Domain

Works brilliant. I run my business off it and don't pay a cent.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if Exchange 2007 was AUD$10000, I'd still pick it over Zimbra.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[totally bogus dude]

What phones are these? My newish phone came with RoadSync pre-installed, but I don't think that exactly counts.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[gbjbaanb]

But outlook CALs are not 'unlimited' when you buy Exchange. I think you no longer are allowed to run Outlook with Exchange 2007 but the new licence terms are too complicated for my tiny mind to comprehend :-)

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[perryizgr8]

one of them is e71. it did not have exchange support initially. others were updated too but i am not sure about the model numbers. you can try looking in the 'download' app.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[PaisteUser]

Actually, you have the issue backwards. Your selection of MS-Exchange as a messaging platform has limited the financially viable choices available to your firm to basically, Windows Mobile. Don't blame your vendor lock in on anyone other than your messaging vendor and the person who decided to buy MS-Exchange. You didn't HAVE TO do it.

I agree with you. However my predecessor chose and implemented Exchange. It's not financially viable to forklift Exchange at this time since it is already paid for.
If I was looking at a fresh install of a groupware product right now, I would be looking at the open source products.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a really nice app called "Touchdown" in the Android market. This does Active-Sync to Exchange. Works really nice.

salesgeek does have a point. Exchange is a locked down system that does not use standard protocols. No you don't need to to use Outlook either. Java-Messaging and other email systems work file with Outlook.

Exchange has always been and still is the WORSE! mail system ever.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if Exchange 2007 was AUD$0, I'd still not pick it.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[BitZtream]

And thank you for being a typical OSS fan boy. Your statement maybe not be factually incorrect, but it sure as hell missed the point.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[BitZtream]

I guess no one bothers to read the Outlook license agreement that gives you an Exchange CAL.

Regardless of your argument however, as much as I fucking hate exchange, if you think Zimbra + * compares to Exchange + Outlook from an end user perspective, then you sir have no idea what end users do.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[salesgeek]

Vendor lock in can happen with open source applications, too. I'm just tired of seeing the company that bought into a vendor lock in complain when they can't adopt newer, better technology.

Re:Missing Enterprise Feature

[trawg]

I've spent the last 6 months looking at Exchange vs Zimbra; I have a fair idea. I know Exchange is superior in almost all respects. But I'm prepared to put a bit of money (and more importantly and costly in the long run: time) to Zimbra because it's ALMOST good enough.

Re:android sucks

[koutbo6]

Balmer .. is that you?

Re:android sucks

[ScrewMaster]

Balmer .. is that you?

Nah ... he just said he hates Google. Now, if he'd said he was going to (and I quote) "fuckin' KILL Google", well, yes, that would probably be Ballmer.

Re:devices? Since when

[Warbothong]

I've had Android running quite nicely on my Freerunner for a while now, connected to the O2 account I've had for years. Freerunners are for sale, thus there is more than one Android handheld available to buy.

Re:devices? Since when

[MichaelSmith]

Whats the battery life like? Apart from that, what do you think of Android on the Freerunner?

i would, but data plan is risky & incomprehens

[mkcmkc]

I would love to have and develop for one of these, but the various service plans required to use them seem murky, incomprehensible, and extremely risky.

• Murky and Incomprehensible: Can anyone surf one of the Android sites and figure out WTF plans you actually need to run these phones and what it will cost per year? It's worse than buying a house. I'd rather try to figure out the federal deficit.
• Risky: I keep reading these stories about people who traveled and came home to discover a phone bill larger than my annual salary. Sorry, but I am not going to risk my financial well-being to own a whizzy phone.

Until they can fix these problems, I'm sitting on the sidelines.

Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

http://xkcd.com/178/

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

Please learn basic HTML for us lazy types. Thank you.

This message paid for by Anonymous Cowards Anonymous.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Koiu Lpoi]

Click
Ctrl-C
Ctrl-T
Ctrl-V
If you're not used to doing that on the internet by now, you're probably doing it wrong.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[pisto_grih]

(On Safari 4)

Step 1) Triple click to highlight
Step 2) Right click
Step 3) Select "Open Address in new tab"

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[benji fr]

(On Safari 4)

Step 1) Triple click to highlight
Step 2) Find the right click on this $($ë!!!@@ mouse
Step 3) Accidentally left click
Step 4) Go back to the article...
Step 5) Find the Right click on your mouse
Step 6) Select "Open Address in new tab"

Fixed this for you...

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[zerblat]

(Firefox, assuming middlemouse.contentLoadURL is set to true)

Step 1: Triple click to highlight
Step 2: Middle click to load URL from primary selection.
Step 3: There is no step 3.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[pjt33]

That's fine when the thing you're wanting to open isn't a hyperlink. I use Ctrl-C, Ctrl-T, Ctrl-V to view links all the time with Gmail, because I find that clicking on them runs some Javascript which never seems to complete and take me to the address which shows in the status bar when I mouseover the link.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[OutOfMyTree]

Firefox, assuming Easy DragToGo installed:

Step 1: Triple click to highlight
Step 2: Drag in chosen direction for chosen action - open in this tab, open in new tab, save link as ...

but it is the choice of 4 different searches for a piece of highlighted text that really makes the extension worthwhile.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhh, shall we have a whip round for the halfwit guys?

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Menkhaf]

Thanks for sharing.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Vu1turEMaN]

Why do you need an addon?

Firefox:

1. Triple click to highlight.
2. Drag to empty area of tab bar.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[LiquidFire_HK]

You can do some of that without an extension. Just drag the link onto the current tab/the location bar to open it in the current tab, a space in between/after tabs for a new tab, or the search bar to search for the string.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[kingturkey]

Or just reply in Plain Old Text mode:
http://xkcd.com/178/

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[smoker2]

Why do you need to triple click ?

Double click to highlight, drag to navigation bar.
Of course if the OP hadn't been lazy, it could have been single middle click to open in a new tab.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you need to triple click ?

Because double-click doesn't highlight the whole url.

Double click to highlight, drag to navigation bar.

You didn't actually try it, did you?

Of course if the OP hadn't been lazy, it could have been single middle click to open in a new tab.

Correct.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Upphew]

Why do you need an addon?

Firefox:

1. Triple click to highlight. 2. Drag to empty area of tab bar.

Empty area? In tab bar? With dozens of tabs? Can I have your monitor please!

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[mcfedr]

If your using a mac for more than a few hours and havnt got sufficently used to the right click you clearly shouldnt be trying to share you wisdom with the world

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

But why would one have to "get" sufficiently used to the right click? Can't it work like, you know, a normal right click button?

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[OutOfMyTree]

Apologies for trying to make your life better by mentioning an addon with useful additional functionality. I will try not to do it again, but sometimes even an old-timer gets betrayed into attempting to help.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Vu1turEMaN]

Honestly, I keep forgetting about that...haha

I just set Firefox to only display favicons (except for the current window) cause I visit alot of the same sites everyday.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Vu1turEMaN]

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the addon, I just thought that there are alot of people on slashdot that avoid installing addons so I provided the most efficient non-addon solution.

People that post addons to solutions do help others, and you should try to do it again. Please don't go emo over a slashdot reply...it's not worth it. And IIRC, there is a nicer plugin out there with multi-search just like EDTG.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Vuojo]

Linkification is pretty useful plugin.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[b0bby]

This was new to me; I just tried dragging it to the far right of all my tabs & it worked. Thanks to GP!

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[srussell]

Opera:

1. Double-click to highlight
2. Select "Go to URL" from the context menu that just popped up

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Excelsior]

On IPhone Safari:

Step 1) Curse out loud.
Step 2) There is no step 2.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Please learn basic HTML for us lazy types. Thank you.

PTTL is your friend.

Or perhaps I should have said:

Check out PTTL: http://pttl.mozdev.org/

Edit: Gah! It auto-linked it for some reason.... ruined my joke.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Vu1turEMaN]

I love Opera. I wish FF did that.

I remember, back in the days of bad IT at my school, using Opera was the way to get around the search filters cause they didn't wanna ban installers lol

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

That's so much easier than:

left-click.

The person posting the url should take the extra 3 seconds to make it a link and save 3 seconds x 10,000 viewers.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Ant P.]

Useful tip I found the other day: middle clicking the url bar favicon does that regardless of what the config variable's set to. It won't open in a tab but you can use alt/whatever it is to do that.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Idiomatick]

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1939

This should be a standard feature in FF. I don't know what loss there is and who wouldn't benefit from it.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir, have lifted the light from mine eyes!

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

Firefox + linkification:
1. Middle click link.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

OS X (and everything in it):

1. Highlight text.
2. Drag to Safari dock icon.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

And then you realize you don't have any tab space left!

Click 'Reply to This' to point this out.

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you need an addon?

Firefox:

1. Triple click to highlight.
2. Drag to empty area of tab bar.

Or Chrome ;)

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

With Linkification add-on

Firefox:

Step 1: Middle click on the URL

Done!!

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

Not an addon, a setting. Standard for linux. Go to about:config in your firefox.

Re:i would, but data plan is risky & incompreh

[Anonymous Coward]

Why in the world are you looking at Android sites to find information on pricing plans? The only confirmed carrier is T-Mobile and all their information is on their site.

geeesh.

works for me

[soundguy]

The G-1 has all the "killer apps" I need at the moment - Accuweather, Google Maps with GPS, an IP Cam viewer so I can monitor my security cams at home and at my datacenter, SSH client, voice recorder, handy tools like data conversions, a level, a ruler and of course the Magic 8-ball. The browser works for the kind of things I need every day - my MRTG graphs, logging into my switches, routers, and remote-reboot controllers. It doesn't do SlashDot for shit though...someone needs to work on that.

Seriously, anyone judging a smart phone based solely on the camera, eye-candy, and "gaming experience" is probably 12 years old. Mine is a tool to help me earn a living first, and a toy second.

Re:works for me

[MrCrassic]

Unfortunately, several thousand iPhone owners would probably disagree with your ideology. Most people use their cell phones as tools too, except not in the same light as you use yours. To some, having a cameraphone or gaming capability is of utmost importance; that doesn't make them any more of an immature customer.

I owned an iPhone for a while, and while I was mostly pleased with it, I found it to be very premature as a smart-phone. It met the general requirements for everything except internet browsing, where it exceeded them in spades, but only barely. If iPhone 3.0 changes that, then I might go back. I am, however, getting more interested in the Android platform.

For those that have used an iPhone previously, what differences should I keep in mind while making the transition? Does the G1 play music as good as the iPhone/iPod Touch does? How is its e-mail client? How does internet browsing compare?

Re:works for me

[wc_paladin]

It browses slashdot pretty well, you just have to disable the floating threshold tool first or it constantly moves over top of what you're reading.

Re:works for me

[cerberusss]

It doesn't do SlashDot for shit though...someone needs to work on that.

Someone already did. Make a new account, go to the homepage, click 'Help & Account' at the top-right, click 'Index', then check the 'Simple Design' checkbox.

Go to your phone and go to http://slashdot.org/index.pl
If you use index2.pl, then you'll get back the new (slow) design. Log in and voila, a perfectly browsable slashdot on your phone.

Re:works for me

[mgblst]

I Pee Cam viewer so I can monitor my security cams at home

Really? Can't you just look down?

Re:works for me

[perryizgr8]

that's something new. because i can't get /. to work even on firefox 3.5b4 on winxp or ubuntu. which damn browser do they test this site on? or do they just code and don't debug?

Re:works for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Translation: "If you don't have the same needs I do you're probably 12 years old". I didn't think it was possible to be such a pompous ass over a cell phone.

Re:works for me

[MichaelSmith]

I Pee Cam viewer so I can monitor my security cams at home

Really? Can't you just look down?

Some people have to lean too far forward to make that practical.

Re:works for me

[slyn]

Your concept of a smartphone is that of companies like Blackberry and Palm's 24 months ago.

Apple saw a market for a consumer smartphone and exploited the fuck out of it. Now all the traditional business smartphone companies are trying to catch up.

Re:works for me

[Tony Hoyle]

Music isn't the G1's target market.. TBH I never played music on the iphone and haven't even tried it on the G1. Email client is passable (that my company uses google apps helps I guess) and the internet browsing is about the same as the iphone.

If the camera matters to you install SnapPhotoPro, which adds all sorts of functionality to the camera (stability detection, digital zoom, editing, etc.).

Two other apps I find pretty useful are Timeriffic (mutes the phone to a schedule, so I don't have twitter/email going off overnight), and Power Manager (which currently doesn't work on cupcake - but saves battery by automatically enabling/disabling things on the phone based on certain events).

If you don't like a particular feature (eg. the SMS app isn't to your taste or the email doesn't do what you want) as Android allows apps to replace OS functionality there are a number of replacement apps that can fill the task - it's your phone.. it should do what you want it to do.

Android has really grown on me, both as a developer (I find that app development is *very* easy, and there are no fees to do so), and as a user, where the number of times I've had to say 'I wish it could...' is far less than the iphone. OTOH it's still immature in some areas. The camera is, even with good software, still not up to scratch, and the bluetooth is almost nonexistant (no OBEX, no DUN/PAN (although the latter are available if you root the phone as they're in the OS.. just not exposed in the GUI yet)).

What I do like is that learning it isn't learning one phone - android isn't going anywhere.. there will be dozens of phones with it on, from different manfacturers, so eventually I'll be able to upgrade to something with a decent camera etc. and keep all my apps intact - an important consideration when you're paying for apps.

Re:works for me

[SenseiLeNoir]

I agree with you in one sense, that people have different needs..

Personally I have two phones. I have a ADP1 (G1) and a Sony Ericsson C905 (for times i just need a normal phone with a decent camera, I switch the SIM). the G1 is a great phoen for doing work, and for weekdays. ITs poor for weekends, and vacations.

to answer the rest of your questions. The G1 plays music ok. Its output is good (when used with normal headphones. the ones it comes with suck, but you need to factor in a 3.5mm adapter) But with cupcake, it DOES suppoer bluetooth A2DP (allows u to use wireless stereo headphones via bluetooth)

Email client 'just works' push only supported via gmail though. internet browsing, shoudl be similar to the iphone (both use webkit), but no multitouch.

Re:works for me

[mdwh2]

Oh please - smartphones have been aimed at consumers (as opposed to business) for years. They've certainly been just as commonplace as the Iphone here in the UK. Furthermore, the division between non-smart and smartphones is much less clear in the last 5 or so years, as almost all phones adopt things such as Internet access, mp3 playing, running software and so on. I suspect what you call a "consumer smartphone" is what everyone else has just been calling a "phone" - i.e., the features that were previously only in "smartphones" filtering down to a larger userbase. However, the Iphone is still as expensive as smartphones, so it doesn't win any points here anyway.

If you have a list of things which the Iphone did that other phones are still playing catch up, then please let's hear them.

Now all the traditional business smartphone companies are trying to catch up.

The sales suggest otherwise. Apple are doing okay, but make no mistake, they're a niche player compared to giants such as Nokia.

Re:works for me

[BitZtream]

Tool to earn a living? Maybe, sounds more like your just a geek with a toy. Nothing wrong with that.

I do think its rather silly that you're watching MRTG graphs on your phone. Is there something that unstable about your system that you need to watch MRTG graphs update on your phone? My system just text messages me if theres a problem. A ruler thats 3 inches long, useful on many occasions I'm sure, like your nerd arguments over whos penis is bigger, too bad you can measure both you and your friends at the same time. A level, it sucks, the accelerometers just aren't accurate enough.

What kind of paranoia problem do you have that has you watching your security cameras from random places during the day? If you have security cameras, do you not also have an alarm system that is capable of notifying you of a problem as well?

You point out all these 'cool geeky things' you can do, but their all just dumb things to do on a phone that can be done far better using the proper tool for the job.

Eye candy may be for 12 year olds, but using the proper tool for the job is for adults, and you've pretty much missed that completely in your effort to be an uber-nerd.

Congrats on having a phone that does lots of geeky shit. Sorry you have utterly failed at life.

Re:works for me

[Anonymous Coward]

It depends on what you use the phone for. I believe the works of Cydia and opensource , not apple insight, brought the iPhone to what it is. Like shareware back in the nineties, Apple is imho, in a love hate relationship.

Give me a better phone to run ssh, openvpn, etc. on, and I'll ditch the iPhone. The Blackbery is close but requires a BES to be useful.

I feel dirty using the iPhone it because I know everything I run, or do, will in some way phone home to mac.com. If the Android can convince me that it does not suffer from the same problems, all the better (allowing iptables for example, would be a good start).

Re:i just got off the toilet

[Anonymous Coward]

ugh. this is old. It's not funny, or clever. It's not even a good troll. For the love of trolls everywhere, FIND A NEW SCHTICK.

Just wanted to hit one of these points

[xant]

> Google has already demonstrated that it is willing to pull certain apps that T-mobile doesn't like.

Except it doesn't matter, because on an Android phone you can install an apk package from anywhere on the web without rooting your phone. (There is a single checkbox in the settings you need to check first.) The Market actually has a strong incentive to be less fascist than the app store, because if it is perceived as hampering developers, developers will simply go elsewhere. I have no doubt that Google knew this when they designed the OS, and that they intend to be more egalitarian in the future. They're also still getting used to this thing, so I'm cutting a little slack. Have no doubt that if, in the future, Google decides to be dicks about the Market, I will put the apps I develop for Android online somewhere else.

Re:Just wanted to hit one of these points

[Yfrwlf]

I just want VoIP apps. The government refused to force this monopolistic industry to offer regular internet access plans and VoIP applications to circumvent their precious traditional cell phone plans, something that they should have done eons ago had there been proper competition in the industry. Once again, advancements in technology which have been around for ages take a back seat to greed and corruption.

Imagine if you could use a completely open device, not tied to any one company like with cell phones now, and simply paid to have internet access, period. You were then free to do whatever the hell you wanted to do, the way it should have been 20 years ago. (give or take...5 years? I dunno). It's amazing how software has been used as a tool for control for so long.

Re:Just wanted to hit one of these points

[xant]

I share your dream, brotha. I just happen to think you're more likely to get there on Android than iPhone, recent events notwithstanding.

Re:Just wanted to hit one of these points

[Yfrwlf]

Probably, and probably even more possible with OpenMoko, if it was functional enough to begin with. I'm unsure about the current state of functionality of OpenMoko.

apt-get install

[Doc Ruby]

If I could apt-get install any Debian or Ubuntu package that runs on the Android phone's HW, perhaps from my desktop cross-compiling it to the phone, I'd be really psyched.

Re:apt-get install

[Anonymous Coward]

you can. Look for the debian port. It takes a little work to get in place, but it runs well enough once you've done it.

Re:apt-get install

[cbhacking]

Take a look at Nokia's devices. Some of them run a modified Debian OS, including apt (and graphical front-end, although xterm and sudo are also provided). You can cross-compile to ARM, download the .deb using the browser, and install. You could host a repository, set the package manager to use that repo, and install that way. Or you could install the build toolchain, download and unpack the tarball, and compile/install in place.

Not *every* package is available, but a good number are. Things from Pidgin to AdBlock Plus (for the included browser; you can install other browsers including full Firefox if you want).

Re:apt-get install

[muzicman]

Why not just install Ubuntu on your phone?

Double-Dog-Damn-Ditto!

[rickb928]

About time someone pointed out the real problem with Exchange interoperability. The only way you get it is if M$ lets you.

And of course, the inscrutible API, poor programming support, and the general fun of making a Windows anything work on a non-Windows anything. You almost have to go back to ASP to get a break.

Of course, they coulda chosen Notes. Or GroupWise. And scrap the rest of their Windows investment. Lock-in sucks, man.

Re:Double-Dog-Damn-Ditto!

[ckaminski]

IMAP + SSL... why reinvent the wheel. Thrice. :-)

!Troll

[Max Littlemore]

The parent makes some good points

I own an HTC Dream (called TMobile G1 in the US). My first phone bill after I bought the phone was $200 more than usual. It is now dropped because I changed my plan to allow for more mobile data, but buying the phone to start with, I had no idea that when I first turned it on it would start downloading a crap load of my gmail. It took me a little bit to figure out how to get the data usage down.

I really like the phone, but I wish there was clearer pre-sales on how much data it was going to use and how to make it cheaper to operate. I also would like a "turn data off - just be a phone" mode. Also the fact that it's advertised as having bluetooth but still - even with cupcake - can't do bluetooth file transfer is just stupid.

Re:!Troll

[CompMD]

Why on earth did you buy a smartphone if not to use the "smart" part of it that requires internet access? T-Mobile has the cheapest unlimited 3G service for handsets in the US and you're complaining? When you were told "you are required to have a gmail account to use this" what did you think it was going to do with your gmail?

Re:!Troll

[amon]

For data off and on look up apndroid in the market. Really neat app that renames all your APNs, thus effectively killing any data transfer.

Amen to everything else youve said, not having bt file transfers is equally pathetic as iphone.

Re:!Troll

[Max Littlemore]

T-Mobile has the cheapest unlimited 3G service for handsets in the US and you're complaining?

Did you read the part of my post about having an HTC dream? That's right! I am not in the US, never have been and don't really mind if I never go. So whatever T1 has is irrelevant to me. My entire house is covered by wifi, as are the houses of plenty of people I know, the office and the coffee shop downstairs. Occasionally I'm out and about and I want something that involves data, I use my providers connection, which is pretty cheap by Australian standards. I have rooted my phone so I can use it as an access point for my laptop. I like the smart phone features and I like it to quickly check my emails without having to use heaps of power on a laptop or desktop machine.

I do object to it syncing email when I don't want it too and making me pay for it when I can just wait and do it for free on wifi. It's configurable but out of the box that's not clear and I find that extremely rude. I also don't like the way they have made voip impossible (it appears). It's all geared toward making telcos happy, not owners. Even copying music to it over the air from my laptop using the hardware I own outright involves ftp because there is no bluetooth and wifi tethering requires root access and unsupported builds of the OS.

So far, what it does well is awesome, but there are so many unpleasant surprises that at this stage the whole thing is a little sour. Why on earth would anyone want a smart phone that uses a data service based on what the data service provider wants rather than on own their needs and lifestyle? Gotta root these things and keep hacking to get them really smart.

Re:!Troll

[Max Littlemore]

Thanks for that - really handy. I found wifi, gps, etc but not that one.

Re:!Troll

[CompMD]

Sorry, missed the part about Australia, hadn't had my morning caffeine.

In any case, I do Android development on the side, and while the device I do most of my work on was a G1 at one point in it's life, there is nothing left to indicate that it still is. As far as the way it connects whenever it wants, you're right, it does assume you have an unlimited cellular data plan. Part of this is likely due to carrier pressure, the limited number of worldwide carriers, and the limited number of "supported" service plans for the device. I'm certain that as development continues for more devices, this will open up, because you're right, it is unreasonable to assume that anyone with a SIM card has unlimited data usage at their disposal. As far as VOIP goes, there is a Skype client, though I have yet to use it. Interestingly, in the US, the T-Mobile "hotspot calling" VOIP service does not work with the Dream/G1/ADP1, but with every other wifi-equipped phone they support.

Basically for now, since the device is offered under exclusivity agreements based on geography, the carriers can dictate the usage of the device, just like with the iPhone. However, by the end of this year, there will be competing Android based devices, forcing more openness in the platform and more capability.

And I do agree that for someone who knows what they are doing with an Android device, not having root access and an engineering bootloader would be very frustrating.

Re:!Troll

[Max Littlemore]

don't think of this as me repying again, try to see it as an extra endorsement

Actually - thanx again. That's exactly the kind of comment that kept me reading /, since '98. If the mods where sane and unlimited you would be (+maxint)Informative

I just went to my local manchoir and my battery didn't leave 100% while I needed a pitch pipe. Sweet.

whoever in these comments mentioned the dream is f%&ked for /. Is right though.
/. Is too heavy these days. I want an "old school" button. We need a web campaign - because they always work.

posted from my dream while the new school /. takes its toll on the battery... especially the index.

Cupcakes anyone?

[DownWithMedia1.0]

Im just curious, dont people realize that Google records everything you do on Android and stores it for as long as they wish, while claiming complete ownership rights over it?? This is the same with all of their products. If the open tech community cant even see through Google's game plan, the world is truly helpless from them.

Re:Cupcakes anyone?

[Evan Charlton]

[Citation Needed]

Re:Cupcakes anyone?

[perryizgr8]

and if apple and microsoft do this on iphone and winmo, you wouldn't even have a way of knowing it. atleast with android you can examine the code and make sure.

Re:Exciting but still unappealing & limited ha

[CyDharttha]

Patience, young Padawan. They're coming; Motorola's been all abuzz about it for a few months now, they're hoping it will save their skin. Samsung and Sony are among others that have announced phones arriving in 2009.

Besides, there's only one Android phone in the US market now, and it just came out 6 months ago.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/smartphones/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=212501692

Re:i would, but data plan is risky & incompreh

[Anonymous Coward]

The world is not american, idiot.

Re:Exciting but still unappealing & limited ha

[Hohlraum]

I think I can wait until tmobile gets better 3g coverage or more carriers get android phones. If you want an open platform for your next phone you'll be getting an android phone, cuz afaik there are really no other options.

Video recording can't be found on rival platforms?

[Anonymous Coward]

The software brings a host of new capabilities, some of which can't be found on rival mobile platforms, including video recording and sharing.

Why is it that I can record video with even my crappy Nokia 2600 classic? Even more than that, I don't know any Nokia with a camera that can't record video.

And about the sharing. I can even send videos attached to multimedia messages. As far as I know, that feature has been in Nokias like forever.

Re:android sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

This is slashdot, less compeling arguments have been sufficient with other companies products.

linux.slashdot.org/ok.txt

[Anonymous Coward]

Can anyone explain to me why I'm getting:
"GET http://linux.slashdot.org/ok.txt HTTP/1.0" 404"

In my Apache logs? Is this some kind of test to stop spam bots? or something potentially more sinister?

Re:linux.slashdot.org/ok.txt

[Anonymous Coward]

Proxy checker. Tries to see if you're a pro

Re:linux.slashdot.org/ok.txt

[Anonymous Coward]

I should've suspected that, cheers

Kernel

[jginspace]

I'm sorry, I started reading the article and I stopped here:

First of all, the updated operating system now runs on the Linux kernel 2.6.27, meaning stronger security, improved stability and a range of core applications enhancements

What was the older version using as a kernel? My research tells me Linux, version 2.6. So what is it about the new one versus the old one that brings appreciable 'security', 'stability' and 'applications enhancements' to Android?

Re:Kernel

[borcharc]

Mine is running 2.6.25. I am running the jesusfreke release, i believe its the same kernel version as the t-mobile release.

Re:Kernel

[LiquidFire_HK]

The 2.6 series has been around since 2003, with a new 2.6.x version every few months bringing in fixes and improvements. Saying the previous version was just running "2.6" is far from being specific. The are a lot of major as well as minor differences between 2.6.0 and 2.6.27.

Considering an android but need some answers

[bucketoftruth]

I've been waiting for an android thread! Before I go buy one...

1. Does it have an IMAP client that supports IDLE?
2. Do the IMAP and SMTP protocols support SSL/TLS from personal CAs?
3. Does the email client support identities (like thunderbird)?
4. Can I use my own Openfire XMPP server with my personal CA?
5. Can I use my own iCal/CalDAV server for my calendar? Is there another app besides google's calendar?

Those are my criteria for buying a new phone. Who's got the answers?

Re:Considering an android but need some answers

[cdrudge]

1. I don't believe so.
2. Yes, you just have to approve it's use, not all that much different then most web browsers
3. I'm not familiar with thunderbird so I can't say. Accounts are kept seperately but all accessible from the current user
4. I don't believe the stock IM app does, but there are numerous other IM apps available and I would be very surprised if at least one of them didn't offer it
5. Don't know

Re:Considering an android but need some answers

[GooberToo]

1. Last I heard, yes. This was a desired feature for K9 some months ago. Its likely in now.

2. Yes. See K9.

3. If by identities you mean accounts, then yes. See K9.

4. Not sure.

5. Indirectly yes via iCal format. You can do that with Google's calendar service and in turn your phone can use Google's service.

Re:i would, but data plan is risky & incompreh

[wc_paladin]

Murky and Incomprehensible: Can anyone surf one of the Android sites and figure out WTF plans you actually need to run these phones and what it will cost per year? It's worse than buying a house. I'd rather try to figure out the federal deficit.

Do you go to symbian.com to find information about plans for smartphones running Symbian? If you want to know you should go to the carrier's website, not the phone OS's website or the phone manufacturer's website. If you have a problem with the carrier's website that's alright, but no need to blame Android for that. It probably sucked before Android.

Risky: I keep reading these stories about people who traveled and came home to discover a phone bill larger than my annual salary. Sorry, but I am not going to risk my financial well-being to own a whizzy phone..

This can happen with any smartphone. If you roam and use the data connection it gets expensive. There is an option in the phone called 'Disable Data Roaming.' It has been there since day one, and anyone who racked up huge charges obviously did not check this box before they left the country.

Re:i would, but data plan is risky & incompreh

[shmlco]

Ummm... you can do a significant portion of iPhone development on an iPod Touch, which needs no service plan whatsoever. Depends on the type of application you want to do, of course. Something GPS-related, say, requires the iPhone.

Most games, OTOH, you want to be Touch-ready anyway. Half the market right there.

Why would that be a showstopper?

[SuperKendall]

There is no native code (C/C++) SDK for it last time I've checked, that was about a half year ago. That is a show stopper for lot of people.

I'm not sure who, since on Android devices the code produced is highly performant.

You can do games on Android after all... and as we see with the update real time video recording and encoding. I mean, just what is holding people back here?

The only people who this bothers are those still scared of Java 1.1 and Applets. Java moved past that point long, long ago.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[moon3]

What about people that have hundreds of thousands lines of C/C++ code written, do you suppose we throw that out of window or spend another hundreds of hours rewriting the stuff to pretty inferior Java, the single paradigm language, interpreted, corporation controlled, non-ISO, non-standard, slow, just to enable it to run on the platform ? What about may be 90% of all open source/GPL code out there, that is written in C/C++, what about that ? Should we trash it all and start all over because of Google has an affair with the Sun ? Because Google want developers to use second rate interpreted language while Google's own applications enjoy native speed, all the C/C++ code out there and all?

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[EvanED]

Some of us are way more familiar with Java than you give us credit for, and still have a pretty strong aversion to the language.

The only people who this bothers are those still scared of Java 1.1 and Applets. Java moved past that point long, long ago.

IMHO the watershed moment in Java was 1.5, courtesy of generics which made the collections at least somewhat usable without constant swearing.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[Chrisq]

You could use a c to bytecode compiler

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only people who this bothers are

... people who have to develop the same app for multiple platforms including Symbian, WM and BREW and not including any Java-ish platform other than Android. Code reuse is your friend.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[moogord]

Its a show stopper for me? I was looking into mobile phone development a few months ago, no native C = no open source C libraries i can use (glib/gobject/gtk/clutter etc...)

I don't want to have to reinvent the wheel over and over again in java when my C stack does it fine just now.

Mostly I just don't want my freedom of choice removed, this is supposed to be the worlds open source mobile OS, but in reality it feels just as closed off as anything else, Its their way or the highway.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[shreddertomas]

I'm convinced that the programming model of Android is what will make it a winner. Programming for Android is very easy if you're a java programmer, and there's millions of java programmers out there.
You can't even compare it to developing for WinMo or Symbian phones, which is a very hard task.

The ease of development, and support for a market with tons of free (and paid for) apps simply blows WinMo and Symbian out of the water.
Once you get a phone with the app support of Android (or iPhone) there is no turning back.

Symbian will die soon for sure, except perhaps for low cost, low function mobiles. WinMo will survive just because it has MS to hold it up with their desktop marketshare.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[gbjbaanb]

don't forget there are millions of desktop/enterprise java developers. People who think 2Gb RAM and dual core is a minimum spec :)

Java on embedded devices is relatively small, certainly not as widespread as you'd think. I'd go out on a limb and guess that there are more Symbian developers (who use C++) as there are simply far more Nokia phones in circulation than any java-based phones.

I would think Google should release a C/C++ application environment for Android, lots of people want it, lots of code already exists to make use of it (or the underlying Linux platform), I can't really think there's a good reason to restrict use to java only.

In fact, the java-only model is a poor one, you're locked in to java, get what the environment gives you. Having Android linux based makes such good sense you're likely to get as wide a range of software running on it as you have with Linux. Making it Java only stops that, you only get Android programmers coding for it.

Beats me why they bothered - its not even real Java, considering they reimplemented their JVM to get round the licencing issues.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[pwfffff]

You could cry some more. It's helping, really.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[BlackCreek]

Java on embedded devices is relatively small, certainly not as widespread as you'd think. I'd go out on a limb and guess that there are more Symbian developers (who use C++) as there are simply far more Nokia phones in circulation than any java-based phones.

Wikipedia tells me that RIM with its Java based BlackBerry has 20% of the smart phone market. Wasn't a new BBerry outselling the iphone the other day?

Java may not be the biggest language platform for embedded systems, but in the context of mobile phones it can only be "relatively small" if you actually meant "second largest".

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[LDoggg_]

IMHO the watershed moment in Java was 1.5, courtesy of generics which made the collections at least somewhat usable without constant swearing.

Was casting that big of a deal?
The newer syntactical sugar is nice, but the lack of it was never a showstopper.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[GooberToo]

What about people that have hundreds of thousands lines of C/C++ code written

I dunno....maybe compile it?! While C and C++ code is officially unsupported, its not like they prevent those applications from being published or installed. There are many applications available for Android which are bundled with C/C++ libs.

On Android, it seems, "unsupported" does not mean "disallowed"; it means no support is provided - you're on your own.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[GooberToo]

For the last time, native C absolutely is available. Period. Google is simply not going to support you. Many apps have been released which include libs compiled from C/C++. Android supports but JNI and an even higher performance interface which allows DVM to call into C/C++ libs. Furthermore, there is an interface which allows for C/C++ libs into the DVM environment.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[GooberToo]

Yes! Current market rankings are:

1. BlackBerry
2. iPhone
3. WinMo
4. Android

Android is rapidly closing on WinMo. By the end of 2010 or before, Android should be in the number three slot.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[M. Baranczak]

Well, I thought it was a big deal. I wouldn't call it a show stopper, but it was one of the major weaknesses in the language.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[EvanED]

It's not just the casting, though that was part of it. It was the fact that Java was occupying this weird (and to me, annoying) place that was mostly statically-typed, but you couldn't rely on that because whenever you had collections involved it ceased to be that way around the collections because if you had a Vector that was intended to hold Strings, you could put an Integer or something into it and it wouldn't be detected until (1) runtime (2) at the place you tried to pull out the integer.

I use collections enough that this became quite annoying. Even after 1.5 there are still vestages of the old dynamic ways. (In the Map class, the get() method takes an object instead of something of the Key's type. This actually caused a bug for me a bit ago; the program was small enough that figuring that out was the largest single part of programming it.)

Bascially, I saw Java (and see old Java) as occupying a niche taking the traditions of a C-like, statically typed, Simula-like class-based OO language and moving toward a dynamically typed language enough that you lost a lot of benefit of static typing while at the same time gaining nothing of the rapid-prototyping nature and general terseness that most dynamically-typed scripting languages have, and in fact making it worse over basically any language out there.

IMO Java's almost sole redeeming factors over C++ are that (1) it's memory-safe (encompasses bounds checking and GC), (2) a little more easily cross-platform, and (3) simpler. With use of the STL and things like smart pointers instead of native C concepts as much as you can I think (1) is a somewhat minimal benefit, (2) can be dealt with with a bit of care in when you compile on different platforms and use libraries like Qt or WxWidgets, and (3) is a real benefit -- but I'm already pretty versed in the intricacies of C++ so the simplicity doesn't benefit me a whole lot, especially if I'm working alone. For me, these benefits are rather outweighed by what I view as Java's heavy-handedness about what is good or bad programming practice (or at least what things they want to support), it's annoyingly verbose syntax, and other similar features.

What it comes down to is if I want a language that will result in programs that behave quickly, I'll choose C++ over Java for most things. If I don't care about performance, I'll choose a language like Lisp or Python which is easier, more fun, and terser to develop in than either of them.

Re:Why would that be a showstopper?

[shreddertomas]

I guess you're not a java developer youself, and haven't tried developing for Android.
As later posters comment, the desktop development paradigm works fine on Android, which is why it is so good. Desktop developers can easily get started writing mobile apps. This is much harder for C/C++.

That's probably why even if there are more developers for Symbian out there, they produce a fraction of the apps available on other platforms (not to mention that most of them I tried pretty much suck AND cost money). Yes I did own a Symbain phone, and have talked to developers working on both symbian and android.

Having said that, I would agree that leveraging Linux a bit more would make sense and having access to the underlying platform could produce wonderful things.

The majority of apps should still use the java API though. I'm willing to bet that for new apps you will have a 10-1 advantage in productivity using the java APIs.

Nice Digg-style Headline

[LS]

A list of 10 things, then couch it with the term "things to love". Fuck off with the Digg style shit. It's clearly marketing for google.

Re:WiMo a distant second.

[Splab]

I own neither of those phones, but could someone explain to me why 35.000 is much more important than 20.000? With that many apps chances are you will have a harder time finding quality in the heap of binary junk.

Re:WiMo a distant second.

[Pastis]

It's funny because the number is different depending on the country.

http://www.apple.com/no/iphone/

only 25000 in Norway. Maybe a mistake...

Re:WiMo a distant second.

[perryizgr8]

you said that the iphone has "more quality apps than others have total apps". so you mean iphone has 20 thousand 'quality' apps?(whatever lame definition of 'quality' you may imply)
lets get this clear.
does the iphone store have an app that can convert your 3g iphone into a wlan access point? symbian has had such an app for years (jaikuspot).
does your iphone store have an app that can stream live video from the camera over 3g or wifi? been running qik for three months.
oh, what did you say? the fuckingly expensive to maintain iphone does not have a video camera? even my basic entry level smartphone n73 has TWO cameras, both of which can be used to stream video in vga quality.
does the iphone store have an app that enables you to watch flash video from any website other than youtube? interbine can search many sites (metacafe, vimeo, youtube,etc) at once and show video from any of them.
can you replace the standard ui on the iphone with another one of your choice using an app? its possible on symbian.
can you have a music player app for iphone? shit no, because it can't run in the background. uncountable such apps for symbian, winmo, bb, and even low end se java apps. my e71 has 128mb of ram. i can run as many programs i like simultaneously, until i fill up the ram.
does the iphone have an im app that can log into live, skype, yahoo, facebook, gtalk, twitter simultaneously and allow you to send and receive messages from any of them? nimbuzz for symbian.
is there an app that can function as a call recorder? tens of such apps for symbian to choose from.
can you listen to streaming internet radio on your iphone. app from nokia store has been doing this for about a year.
and i have not even started on python apps.
so what quality do you want exactly? i don't see a single iphone app that is in any way revolutionary. most are just connectors to specific websites because the standard browser fucks them up. whereas most of the apps in symbian and winmo bring new and useful functionality.

Re:Exciting but still unappealing & limited ha

[Anonymous Coward]

You DO realise Android has been out for only 6 months. Let the hardware manufacturers get some dev time behind them eh? In about 12 days I'll have the option of buying one of 3 Android handsets and I'm in Australia. And one of those has 8GB onboard, a 32GB card slot and a 5MP cam...

Re:Video recording can't be found on rival platfor

[perryizgr8]

they probably consider iphone to be the only rival. yes, the shitty iphone can't even record videos. never mind we have had video and mms in every phone (nokia, se, moto, samsung, winmo, htc, asus) since 1999.

Re:WiMo a distant second.

[R3d M3rcury]

Agreed. This is usually the way to spot the Apple fanboi.

When they bring up how Apple's App Store has 35,000 applications and Windows Mobile (or some other phone) has only however many thousand, point out that Windows has far more applications available than Mac OS X, so it is obviously superior.

I did this once. It was great fun to watch him stammer. "But, but, but...it's completely different! How many word processors to do you need?" "Oh, I don't know, probably about as many tip calculators, fart noise generators, and flashlights."

Re:WiMo a distant second.

[debatem1]

That is actually a really clever line of reasoning. You have brightened my day.

Re:i would, but data plan is risky & incompreh

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Murky and Incomprehensible: Can anyone surf one of the Android sites and figure out WTF plans you actually need to run these phones and what it will cost per year? It's worse than buying a house. I'd rather try to figure out the federal deficit.

The ADB-1 is $399, has no contract, and is unlocked. It works with any GSM carrier in the world (which is most mobile carriers in the world); in the US it will work with AT&T and T-Mobile (Verizon/Sprint use CDMA2000, which is incompatible).

The ADB-1 has UMTS Band I and Band IV, which means that it will work with 3G on most worldwide carriers, and with T-Mobile in the US. AT&T uses different Band II and Band V, so in the US the ADP1 will only provide 2G (GSM/GPRS/EDGE) service with AT&T. 2G service is fine for making phone calls, texting, IMing, sending email, and other light usage, but it's obviously not as fast as 3G. Fortunately, the ADP1 also has built-in Wi-Fi.

So, bottom line - get an ADP1. No contract, no changes in your service fees. You don't even need mobile data service for development, since you can use Wi-Fi.

Risky: I keep reading these stories about people who traveled and came home to discover a phone bill larger than my annual salary. Sorry, but I am not going to risk my financial well-being to own a whizzy phone.

If you want to use your phone outside of the US, but don't want to pay the huge roaming fees, get an ADP-1 (unlocked) and switch to a prepaid SIM when you get to your destination. Prepaid GSM SIMs are all over most of the world, and they will enable you to make reasonably cheap local calls and send cheap text messages.

I don't get the people who are freaked out about huge bills with GSM roaming. If you had a CDMA phone, it wouldn't work outside of the US/Canada anyway. You can accomplish the EXACT SAME THING by leaving your GSM phone home.

Clearly you know about large roaming fees. Yet you don't seem to be willing to sidestep the issue by leaving the phone at home.

That just means that you are a troll.

document compatibility??

[robcohen]

How did they miss the ability to read .pdf and MS Office documents?? They're pretty basic to anyone using the phone for business of any size. Sigh... r

Bad summary

[117]

The last line of the summary gives the impression that the ability to record video is exclusive to the Android platform, something which is blatantly not true.

Re:Exciting but still unappealing & limited ha

[mjwx]

My carrier doesn't even have android phones.

This is a problem with the US Mobile carrier system, not the HTC handset, Google or the Android operating system. The concept of picking your phone after picking your carrier is backwards and needs to stop. In many places in Europe and doubly so in Asia the practice of carrier lock-in is all but impossible.

I just bought the HTC Dream (G1) outright in Australia, I paid A$900 for it but I'm getting a fair chunk of that back via tax as its a business expense because I absolutely refuse to use the current Australian Carrier, Optus, I could have gotten the phone for less and gone on a 24 month optus plan but then I'd be stuck on Optus's overloaded 2100 MHz network with Optus's crappy customer service.

I only received my HTC Dream today and I'll be going into a Three (Huchinson) store after work to get a SIM, Optus wanted A$60 + A$15 for the handset for 500 MB download, with Three I'm getting an A$30 phone plan plus A$20 for 1GB of downloads (its illegal here to advertise an unlimited service that is restricted). Despite the fact that I've only had the handset for a few house already become an Android fan but as for what I really think about the phone I'd respond with ask me again in a week. I try to remain aware of my own cognitive bias so that it doesn't turn into Cognitive Dissonance as no-one likes a fanboy, so there may be issues with the phone that I don't know about although I do research a A$900 purchase fairly well.

Re:devices? Since when

[noundi]

Every time I hear the word Freerunner my fingers tickle. I simply must have one, but until the battery life reaches at least 4 days standby I'll wait. Right now it needs a daily recharge and whilst it's an awesome toy daily recharging doesn't exactly cut it as mobile. On the other hand I understand that stabilizing the software is of course of higher priority (and perhaps even a contributing factor). Plus it's not like this battery is cutting edge in any way. I guess they will look for other more suitable battery variants in the future. So let's not forget: good things come to he who waits.

Re:devices? Since when

[franki.macha]

I honestly thought that I'd rather gouge out my own eyes than ask this question, but do you have a blog detailing your experiences in this area?

Re:devices? Since when

[tyrione]

Six weeks. Samsung and Moto have product releases scheduled, as does HTC.

In other words, after WWDC 2009, they are planning to release hardware to try and take away some attention from the iPhone 3.0 OS, new hardware and Snow Leopard 10.6.

Port to other linux-based mobiles?

[Anonymous Coward]

What would it take to port android to other linux based mobiles as e.g. Motorolas Razr2 V8?

Two Features to Love

[Nom du Keyboard]

How about 2 features to love?

1: A good tethering app, preferably via USB, Bluetooth, and WiFi?

2: A good VOIP app?

Re:Two Features to Love

[GooberToo]

A good tethering app, preferably via USB, Bluetooth, and WiFi?

All three are already available - and have been for a while.

A good VOIP app?

Already available. Now that 1.5 is out expect the category of application to build a lot more inertia.

Re:WiMo a distant second.

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPhone app where you have to kill a baby by shaking it as hard as possible isn't exactly a quality app either.

I'd say that there are no more than about 100 to 500 useful applications for the iphone.

Not true

[SenseiLeNoir]

parent is false....

Only Webkit, and its direct connectors run native, the wrapper around the browser runs in the DVM.

This is more due to Webkit itself not based on Java, and allows for performance.
most other apps, including the dialer do NOT use native code.

Of course, some libraries use native Code too (like the DB, etc) but you have access to the same libraries via the same API.

If i only could get my hands on one...

[miffo.swe]

I have been wanting an Android phone since i first lay my hands on one and could try it out. After i put android on my openmoko even more so. I have used most smartphones in my line of work since im the one setting them up for our users. Symbian and Windows Mobile etc. with all the different iterations plainly just sucks compared to an Android phone. Using Android is a pleasant moment of "so this is how a smartphone should behaive!". I know taste is personal, Android and me have perfect chemistry.

The problem for me is that no matter how much money im willing to spend i cant get one in Sweden. For some reason Sweden has become a real backwater for anything but Microsofts crap. Were first with all the boring stuff and dead last with new exciting stuff.

Re:devices? Since when

[achenaar]

The HTC Magic was released very recently in the UK. So that makes two. (both by HTC but hey, more than one.)

Re:Exciting but still unappealing & limited ha

[jez9999]

I really like Android as concept.

I watched the official video. Honestly, am I the ONLY person who doesn't want to type on a fucking onscreen keyboard? Give me a slide-out mini keyboard ANY day. Also, what's with not providing a stylus with the phone? AFAIC those 2 things are major failings of the iPhone. Basically, I'd like a device where I don't have to touch the screen with my greasy fingers. The Nintendo DS and the PocketPC are designed in this way, why the hell does Android have to copy Apple's mistakes here??

Re:devices? Since when

[Tony Hoyle]

No, it means that it takes time to develop and test a phone.

There are lots of releases in the pipeline, at different stages of development, that will be released at different times.

On average a phone has 6 months where it's the 'new' phone that is pushed by the carriers then it's ignored (this has already happened to the iphone - try looking for it on the O2 store.. not there, because it's not the latest). Manufactures *have* to keep pushing out phones to remain at the front, and each one has to have something to sell it.

Yes you can.

[Svenne]

I got one last week. The Android Dev Phone 1 (ADP1) has the same hardware as HTC Dream, with the only difference in that it won't run DRM-damaged applications.

It'll cost you about 4600 SEK all in all, not bad at all. Also, you get the cool dev phone pattern on the back ;)

http://developer.android.com/guide/developing/device.html

Re:Yes you can.

[BitZtream]

Don't you just have to switch to a release build of the software to get the ability to run the DRM'd crap?

Re:Yes you can.

[Svenne]

Uhmm.. I don't know. I just read that DRM'd software wouldn't work on the ADP1. If it does, well that's fine. If it doesn't, it doesn't really bother me.

It's obvious

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux is being taken over by the homosexuals.

APD1 vs G1, vs iPhone- not tied to Tmobile, Apple

[olden]

G1s aren't exactly hard to unlock, especially when one variant happens to be like that out of the box (yes, the Android dev phone 1 or ADP1). Well worth the extra $25 "Google tax" IMHO. Plus I've had a chance to try 1.5/cupcake >2 weeks before most G1 users, and I like it.

I use my ADP1 with AT&T. Yup, no 3G for me (yet?) because US carriers somehow manage to always pick their very own frequencies (wtf?!? 1700 MHz band aka AWS for T-Mobile, some 1900 flavor for AT&T even though they have a 1700/AWS license as well, and whereas the rest of the world agreed on 2100 long ago).
Anyway, I have 3 lines on a $50 +2 x $10 family plan = $23/line, or ~$26 with taxes etc... Unlimited data adds $15/mo.
Yes I'll need about 6 months to recoup the extra cost of this phone ($424) vs an iPhone with typical voice+data plan ($199 + $78-ish/mo) -- not taking into account the pennies I can save on apps (e.g. free SSH client) and on calls using VoIP/SIP.
Speaking of which, check out http://www.sipdroid.org/; it's definitely still buggy but works over 2.5G. Cupcake and open-source in general rock.

Re:devices? Since when

[Kryis]

You mean this O2 store? The one with the "iPhone" link in the "Phones" menu on the left hand side?

Re:i would, but data plan is risky & incompreh

[SenseiLeNoir]

And the grandparent is still right in saying, you need to go to your network provider to understand the costs of data. you cant research on android sites, what tmobile, et al is going to charge.

Re:Exciting but still unappealing & limited ha

[miknix]

Honestly, am I the ONLY person who doesn't want to type on a fucking onscreen keyboard? Give me a slide-out mini keyboard ANY day
(...)
The Nintendo DS and the PocketPC are designed in this way, why the hell does Android have to copy Apple's mistakes here??

I own a HTC Wizard which has an QWERTY slide in keyboard and a stylus.
Seriously, you wouldn't want to take out the stylus every time you want to write a message. It's very annoying and irritating.

About the slide in keyboard, I'm with you. Although the way WinMob (of pocketpcs) is designed, it actually makes your keyboard useless. Plus the fact that it is very slow to rotate the screen when you slide the keyboard and sometimes the app crashes. So I usually type the messages on on-screen-keyboard carefully using the tip of my finger instead.

So, my advice: Typing with your own fingers is much better than stylus. Slide in keyboard is a good idea but I never saw it being well implemented. :)

Re:devices? Since when

[GooberToo]

At least one hardware release is scheduled for Summer. At least one to come in fall. Yet more come Winter, in time for the holiday. Worldwide there should be at least six models available by the end of the year. At least three of them should be available in the US from US carriers.

Re:devices? Since when

[Yogiz]

Daily recharge is a bit harshly put. I'm running on SHR unstable and using phone and SMS (maybe 3-5 calls a day) the Freerunner can handle 48 hours before needing a recharge. It changes of course if you want to use it as a GPS or audio player a lot (Then it's about a day) but it's really not that much of a problem. It's not that hard putting a tail behind it before going to sleep every second day. Never tried how long it would last when on standby the whole time, I can't afford to not have a phone for that long : ).

Re:i would, but data plan is risky & incompreh

[Anonymous Coward]

I keep reading these stories about people who traveled and came home to discover a phone bill larger than my annual salary. Sorry, but I am not going to risk my financial well-being to own a whizzy phone.

There are several applications available which addresses this issue. WiSync, apnDroid, and WiSyncPlus all help you manage or eliminate this issue. WiSync + apnDroid provide a free but non-integrated solution. WiSyncPlus provides a lot more. You'll find all three on the market.

I know WiSync is also available on SlideMe. I think apnDroid may only be available on the market.

On a side note, I'm really not sure why T-Mobile hasn't been sued over this issue. All of the cases I've read, where this happened is US T-Mobile users who traveled overseas where T-Mobile also had a network. The T-Mobile network isn't considered a foreign network since they are already a T-Mobile customer with a T-Mobile SIM. So the phone doesn't believe its roaming since the network doesn't inform the phone it is. The network allows it to register as a homed phone. The user is then billed for roaming despite the fact its completely T-Mobile's fault.

Re:devices? Since when

[Yfrwlf]

All these different open source mobile device projects re-inventing the wheel saddens me. GTK and QT should be made so scalable that they should be made capable of running on mobile devices without being memory hogs, apps should be made scalable too so they can run on small screens and not have to be rewritten, or with very minimal rewriting, and everything should run on X.org perhaps configured some for performance.

Basically, I want to just run standard Linux GUI and command line programs so I can have *all* the same apps available to me, even if I had to scroll around because some app wasn't the "mini" version, you still wouldn't be cut off from the rest of the Linux universe completely like you are with some of these projects like Android?

Proprietary Linux application development sucks, and it just seems like a lot of these companies want you to throw your heart and soul at their Linux Application Island, instead of communicating and co-existing in the rest of the Linux ecosystem by using standards and such.

P.S. And no, that wasn't a reality TV show idea.

Re:devices? Since when

[ryanguill]

So let's not forget: good things come to he who waits.

Just tell that to all of the Duke Nukem Fans.

Re:devices? Since when

[noundi]

Daily recharge is a bit harshly put.

Well I'm not saying this from my experience. This comes from the official site.

Under the topic "How usable is it"

As the hacker's dream toy: it is fully functional. As a GSM phone: some people have been using it to receive and place phone calls and SMS for months, but with currently shipping software the battery life is only one day. As a GPS device: critical bugs have been ironed out and there is nice software to know where you are using OpenStreetMap. As an alarm clock, media player, internet browser, game console, email reader and contacts manager: software is not stable yet.

Either way I've had phones that lasted 48 hours, I've had phones that lasted less and I've had phones that lasted longer. For me 48 hours doesn't cut it. Sure it's perfectly usable, but it becomes a hassle. Perhaps it's just human nature to get spoiled but I know the technology exists so I'm not exactly asking for the impossible. I'll give them time, not to worry, I can always wait and purchase without compromising. :)

Re:i would, but data plan is risky & incompreh

[mkcmkc]

Clearly you know about large roaming fees. Yet you don't seem to be willing to sidestep the issue by leaving the phone at home. That just means that you are a troll.

My CDMA phone had a very important quality that a GSM phone does not: If I forget to leave it at home, flip some switch, do a little happy dance, or whatever it is I'm supposed to do, it won't ruin my life.

Ever heard of risk management? If a house had a big, red button one had to press once a day to keep it from exploding, I could "sidestep the issue" by just remembering to press the button, but there's no way in hell I'm going to buy such a house. I have more than enough things in my life that require my vigilance--I don't need another.

Thank you for the rest of your informative post. I already go completely pre-paid, partly for the reasons above, and partly because I want to be able to switch carriers rapidly when they (inevitably) screw things up. So far I hadn't found anything authoritative that says that a pre-paid SIM even works in an Android phone. (Well, I guess I still haven't, but at least it's another data point.)

The first phone company that comes out with a simple deal that says "this is what you get, this is what it costs, cancel anytime" is going to wipe the floor with the rest of the competition.

Re:i would, but data plan is risky & incompreh

[Anonymous Coward]

this website is not the world, eurofag

Re:devices? Since when

[noundi]

All these different open source mobile device projects re-inventing the wheel saddens me.

Well if the people who invented the wheel refuse to share the secrets one needs to reinvent it and spread it so that it never has to be invented again. Your anger lies within the proprietary sector, not the FOSS sector that are desperately trying to straighten out the mess.

GTK and QT should be made so scalable that they should be made capable of running on mobile devices without being memory hogs, apps should be made scalable too so they can run on small screens and not have to be rewritten, or with very minimal rewriting, and everything should run on X.org perhaps configured some for performance.

This makes me doubt you're even following the embedding progresses so I don't even know what to respond to this.

Basically, I want to just run standard Linux GUI and command line programs so I can have *all* the same apps available to me, even if I had to scroll around because some app wasn't the "mini" version, you still wouldn't be cut off from the rest of the Linux universe completely like you are with some of these projects like Android?

Ok now I'm getting tired, have you even read what OpenMoko is? What you're saying is kind of the whole point of OpenMoko, to bring the Linux world/desktop to mobile phone devices.

Proprietary Linux application development sucks, and it just seems like a lot of these companies want you to throw your heart and soul at their Linux Application Island, instead of communicating and co-existing in the rest of the Linux ecosystem by using standards and such.

OpenMoko is in no way proprietary. You're way out of bounds brother, read, learn, speak. That's the proper way of doing it.

Conversions

[SkimTony]

It's because they use the metric system in Norway; the US Apple Store has 35,000 Imperial Apps.

Re:devices? Since when

[Yfrwlf]

Hmm, yeah, communication, that's why I'm trying for, thanks. ^^ I think the appropriate response you were looking for then is: "OpenMoko is one of the few projects that allows any traditional Linux desktop app to be run in it's environment, and is all about playing nicely with the Linux ecosystem and it's standards."?

I was wondering how 'friendly' are these various projects to the rest of the Linux universe, and wanted to comment that they *should* be friendly and play nice with everything else. It also seems like with all the different "mobile Linux" projects that a lot of duplicated effort was going on what with Moblin, Android, OpenMoko, and others.

From what I know, OpenMoko did seem more "open", but then I don't understand why it has to be under the banner of a single phone instead of a general "helping Linux programs scale better so many programs can be easily run on small devices" project. But hey, if they want to gather around the Freerunner and such because it's an open phone, that's fine I guess, but it just seems a bit skewed to one company. =P

Don't know why it's not just:
1. Make apps more scalable when and where possible, and if needs be, re-write them for tiny screens.
2. Add Linux drivers for the mobile hardware.
3. There shouldn't be a three.

Maybe it is, but then why are there so many projects to do the same thing?

Re:Exciting but still unappealing & limited ha

[Fastolfe]

None of these failings are problems with Android. You seem to be confusing the OS with the hardware. Android covers the software, and it's up to the hardware manufacturers to decide how they want the phone to work. The only existing Android phone HAS a slide-out keyboard, so just buy one of those instead of one that relies on an on-screen keyboard. Similarly, let the hardware manufacturers know that you'd be willing to pay for a stylus. These are hardware design issues, not Android issues.

Re:devices? Since when

[noundi]

From what I know, OpenMoko did seem more "open", but then I don't understand why it has to be under the banner of a single phone instead of a general "helping Linux programs scale better so many programs can be easily run on small devices" project. But hey, if they want to gather around the Freerunner and such because it's an open phone, that's fine I guess, but it just seems a bit skewed to one company. =P

My God you have no idea what you're talking about so I'm ending the conversation. Seriously if you take me for an asshole then go ahead. It would prove that I'm wasting my time anyway. If you're any wiser then please read what the hell OpenMoko and Freerunner are and then read your post again. Be prepared to either painfully cry or painfully laugh though. Me -- I'm still trying to decide and right now it just feels painfull.

Re:APD1 vs G1, vs iPhone- not tied to Tmobile, App

[debatem1]

All of that is true, but it misses the point- the G1 is the HTC Dream rebranded for T-Mobile.

Re:WiMo a distant second.

[shmlco]

First, go to the iPhone page of the Apple web site and see if you can read the big number in the middle of the page.

Never mind, I'll save you the trouble, it's 35,000. And that number was not hard to track down at all. http://www.apple.com/iphone/

Further, a CURRENT Microsoft press release (March '09), states, "Current Windows® phone users already have access to more than 20,000 applications through multiple distribution partners." http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/mar09/03-30CTIA09PR.mspx

The above is NOT flamebait, any more than was the parent post that attempted to refute an earlier statement by giving the WRONG numbers for the number of iPhone and WiMo applications.

Way more than 20 apps, but nobody really cares.

[Anonymous Coward]

I looked at the android market website since I have an open mind until the new iPhone comes out next month.

At which point your mind will slam shut, with a resounding clang? Just kidding, you walked into that one.

App store beats it. My wife's iphone has kids games on it along with flash cards for our son to play with. And come this summer you will be able to USe the iPhone to measure blood pressure and cholesterol.

You gotta wonder why people think these are selling points for a phone. It's not really a phone at that point, it's a computer with communication functions.

The selling point for the iPhone is that it makes people think you're cool. At least until the next fad hits, anyway.

The selling point for android is that you can write your own app to scratch your own itch at a fraction of the price. This is a pretty limited market. However, once enough itches get scratched, you get the kind of momentum that linux and the BSDs have - still a limited market, but big enough for people to make money in, and less fragile than making money by creating or surfing transient fads.

Actually that doesn't really matter

[SuperKendall]

don't forget there are millions of desktop/enterprise java developers. People who think 2Gb RAM and dual core is a minimum spec :)

My experience is all in iPhone development so far, but from what I've seen it applies roughly to Android as well...

When you are developing an application for the new mobile platforms, the app by nature is small enough that taking the approach of a desktop programmer is OK. The frameworks you use are there to help keep your app small, and in the end if you hit resource constraints there are tools to hunt them down and address them.

But generally, it actually doesn't matter much in development that you are targeting mobile, not in the way it used to be the case with platforms like J2ME. And the devices are following the same More's Law path desktops have...

In fact, the java-only model is a poor one, you're locked in to java, get what the environment gives you.

Which is actually the widest range of development tools around! Eclipse is no slouch in development.

Java really is not the limitation people think it is, and it provides 99% of apps an easy way to run across a wide variety of mobile devices. The flip side of being "locked into Java" is that phones are not locked into a processor, which is actually a bit of a concern with the iPhone although Apple has shown they know how to migrate processors in a seamless manner (I don't mind having to generate fat binaries though it's not as elegant).

Re:devices? Since when

[CZakalwe]

:D I know exactly what you mean! I have a rusty spoon handy here if you want to borrow it! Yea I wouldn't mind reading a blog myself, I've played with the emulator of Version 1 like many and it looks promising, but I live in New Zealand and I'm not likely to see any Android phones for a long time if ever!

You're doing it wrong.

[Benfea]

You gave four steps. Ctrl-click is one step.

Re:You're doing it wrong.

[Koiu Lpoi]

...why are you Ctrl-Clicking? The "click" was to "select the text", if you didn't get it. I know I didn't say "drag", but that really doesn't deserve its own step.

Re:devices? Since when

[Yogiz]

Well I'm not saying this from my experience. This comes from the official site.

Under the topic "How usable is it"

As the hacker's dream toy: it is fully functional. As a GSM phone: some people have been using it to receive and place phone calls and SMS for months, but with currently shipping software the battery life is only one day. As a GPS device: critical bugs have been ironed out and there is nice software to know where you are using OpenStreetMap. As an alarm clock, media player, internet browser, game console, email reader and contacts manager: software is not stable yet.

Well, this paragraph was added to the wiki on the 30. July 2008. I assure you that Freerunner's power management has evolved a lot since then. At that time it was pretty much non-existant.

Either way I've had phones that lasted 48 hours, I've had phones that lasted less and I've had phones that lasted longer. For me 48 hours doesn't cut it. Sure it's perfectly usable, but it becomes a hassle. Perhaps it's just human nature to get spoiled but I know the technology exists so I'm not exactly asking for the impossible. I'll give them time, not to worry, I can always wait and purchase without compromising. :)

I agree with you, uptime could always be longer. Still, when taking into account that Freerunner is not really a phone (as it has been wrongly marketed) but a handheld linux computer with GSM capabilities I have to say that I'm very impressed with the power management so far. Kernel guys said that it can be improved even more.

Re:WiMo a distant second.

[Buelldozer]

Yes, and when did this become SOLELY about WinMo?

The original poster that I replied to said that there were more quality (a filter) applications for the Iphone than existed (totality) for all other platforms COMBINED.

You've still not disproven me, despite my admittedly bad numbers and sources. In fact it's quite the opposite. If WinMo is at 20K I'm sure that Symbian and Palm added to it easily surpass 15K.

Now add the "quality" filter to the IPhone application total and you've been handily defeated.

You're arguing an unwinnable position that is demonstrably false. There are NOT more quality applications for the Iphone than total applications in existence for all other mobile platforms combined.

End of discussion.

Re:WiMo a distant second.

[Dog-Cow]

When setting up an app on the App Store you can specify which countries it may be sold in.

Where is 1.5?

[f1vlad]

I've been awaiting but to no avail. I guess T-mobile changed their mind.

Re:Where is 1.5?

[chaynlynk]

Same here. I still haven't received mine.

Re:Where is 1.5?

[f2vlad]

I am surprised nobody has reported their phone having being updated already. No news about this whatsoever on any blog.

Re:WiMo a distant second.

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. This is usually the way to spot the Apple fanboi.

When they bring up how Apple's App Store has 35,000 applications and Windows Mobile (or some other phone) has only however many thousand, point out that Windows has far more applications available than Mac OS X, so it is obviously superior.

I did this once. It was great fun to watch him stammer. "But, but, but...it's completely different! How many word processors to do you need?" "Oh, I don't know, probably about as many tip calculators, fart noise generators, and flashlights."

This is also the way to spot the anti-Apple fanboi shill.

Re:Exciting but still unappealing & limited ha

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow! That's odd! My carrier doesn't even have iPhones!

Re:devices? Since when

[Yfrwlf]

That was as helpful as not responding at all.