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Amazon & TuneCore To Cut Out the RIAA Middleman
eldavojohn writes "So you're an aspiring band and you haven't signed with a record label. Maybe you've got a fan base interested in purchasing your stuff but you're not really into accounting? Enter Amazon's partnership with TuneCore, a CD printing and music distribution service. You want to sell a full album on Amazon of you brushing your teeth? $31. And you get about 40% back on sales, so selling nine digital copies of your CD will put you back in the black. There you have it, public availability on one of the largest online commerce sites for $31 — no RIAA involved!" TuneCore's CEO put it this way: "As an artist, you have unlimited physical inventory, made on demand, with no [sic] upfront costs and worldwide distribution to anyone who orders it at Amazon.com."
I for one wait to see the lawsuit the RIAA is drawing up to bring down upon Amazon for squelching their draconian business practices by violating their 'copyright' on 'distribution of artistic works of an audio based nature'
I know several up-and-coming musicians, and putting out their first couple of CDs is always a financial adventure. If these guys can produce professional-looking packaging on a one-off basis, it could be just what struggling musicians need!
The fact that it shows how irrelevant the big labels are becoming is just icing on the cake.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
"As an artist, you have unlimited physical inventory, made on demand, with no [sic] upfront costs and worldwide distribution to anyone who orders it at Amazon.com."
What's with the [sic]? 'no' isn't mispelled. upfront isn't misspelled.
Lumping in a prepositional phrase with a noun, verb, and a noun is bad grammer, but I didn't think you used '[sic]' to indicate the bad grammer isn't yours....
How on earth do you figure it's 31$ pr album? It's 31$ to get listed. Read the article, how would you ever make it out to be 31$ pr. album when 9 sales is all that's required to get back in the black?
I could legitimately see this as being the beginning of the end for the RIAA, and I've never thought that before. It makes sense that it would take a big media vendor with a well-established user community, combining manufacturing with sales.
This would be fantastic if I were a musician. No inventory. No worrying about manufacturnig. And you get a percentage of revenue that you won't see anywhere else. The general Amazon community will make marketing a *lot* easier than it would be otherwise. All in all, it seems to make the RIAA meaningless. I really think indie bands might be able to make this work. I'm looking forward to shopping for music on this and know the RIAA ain't getting a dime.
Similar model.
If you read the article, they mention CDBaby:
For TuneCore, the deal expands its primary business helping indie artists get digital distribution through online outlets such as iTunes, Napster and Amazon MP3. TuneCore will now compete directly with CDBaby, the current leader in low-volume CD manufacturing and distribution. CDBaby charges $278 for 100 discs, although it recently lowered its minimum order to just five copies.
I've been a massive fan of CDBaby ordering discs straight from people like Anni Rossi but it has a minimum order those artists have to meet. I don't like the idea of a band having to buy up 500 or 100 or even 5 copies. Instead a flat fee of $31 for the artist makes me excited that this could really be big for indie artists ... I think CDBaby's success is proof that this even cheaper alternative could be a massive success. Let's hope Amazon allows you a 30 second preview and review ratings to quickly separate the wheat from the chaff.
Get into the iTunes store.
While iTunes would be slightly bigger, Amazon is a big leap for Tunecore and I'm happy to see it even on this level.
My work here is dung.
No, no, no. You, the artist, pay them $31 to get started and have them take you on. Then they sell the albums at a "normal" price. RTFA... Although, I also blame /. for increasingly bad summaries these days.
It's not cheap at first glance, but it couldn't be more obvious that it is cheap, if you take everything involved into account. I'm just a bit afraid of the response from RIAA. They proved time and time again that they start suits with or even without a solid reason, so I guess it won't take long before they will say that this service should be taken down immediately.
Which would be a shame.
I give massages and reiki treatments (for real!). More info here: http://www.universele-levensenergie.be
There are lots of elements used in the "Music Engine." One of those crucial elements is radio play. Another is wide-spread marketing. And still another is hiring girls to scream during performances. (Didn't you know? Get a handful of girls to scream during a performance causes other females to start screaming and they begin to believe they "love" this music and/or the performers. I know this flies in the face of common sense, but it works.)
It was my understanding that the band paid $31 as sort of a "starting fee". After that initial $31, there is nothing more to pay (that is, if I understood what I read correctly). They're not trying to -sell- the discs for $31 a pop.
Earn a % of cash back from Newegg, Tiger Direct, Walmart.com, and more: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=458505
You sir, failed to understand whats the $31 is about. Thats the cost for getting the album there, not the price its sold at.
I don't know. You would have to be pretty committed to music to even know about this service. Committed fans are (I believe) happy to spend more money if they know that a significant percentage is going to the artist.
In some ways it's like being an old-fashioned patron of the arts, where you're paying the band so that they can afford to continue making music you like, rather than paying the RIAA $18 for a CD of songs that the artist has already been paid for. (Assuming it's one of the 95% of albums that never sell enough copies to repay their advance...)
Tunecore will charge just $31 a year in upfront fees to handle a 10-track CD from pressing to delivery, passing all other costs through to the buyer.
And
If one of Amazonâ(TM)s 80 million customers buys your 10-song CD on Amazon for $8.98, youâ(TM)ll receive $3.59
However,
one obvious drawback to this model is that you canâ(TM)t sell an on-demand CD at shows, where enthusiastic fans are most likely to pick one up.
That being said, if anyone here wants to potentially earn some money. Create a mobile (or iphone) app that will allow you to buy the CD from amazon, as well as download the tracks (DRM free) to your mobile device there and then. Perhaps using the barcode apps. This would be the best of both (plus another) worlds.
They are NOT pressed CD's. they are BURNED CD's.
There is no way in hell that for $31.00 they will crank up a pressing process. I've seen those machines, they blow 100 disks just in testing runs.
Granted I can get CD-R's that 90% out there cant tell is a burned CD. They have a beautiful Silver dye system out there that with a silver thermal printing surface looks like the real deal.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Upon rereading:
So they don't take a 60% cut...that's what amazon takes. However, that makes it sound like they take their $31 upfront and that's it. Nothing per disk. So if you sell 1 million CDs, they just get $31. No way. They've got to be getting something back from amazon. Their take is buried somewhere in that 60% cut that amazon takes.
Still, that's a good deal for someone getting started.
It's a $31 per year "hosting fee" for the artist.
From the article:
If one of Amazon's 80 million customers buys your 10-song CD on Amazon for $8.98, you'll receive $3.59. After selling just nine discs, you're in the black.
emphasis mine.
"Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
They are NOT pressed CD's.
If that is the case, then the article blatently lied:
Japanese amateur (doujin) artists have been self-publishing professional-quality albums for years now. No RIAA, no middlemen: they set up a booth at a convention and sell it. And then, afterwards, they sell extra copies from their website. It seems to work well enough: some single fandoms have produced hundreds if not thousands of albums.
Isn't it amazing what you can do when you prioritize actually making music over trying to get rich?
And don't think that the Japanese have it easier with regard to music copyright enforcement: the problem is actually so great there that file-traders have been forced to use anonymous P2P systems like Share and Winny.
Yes, massive fail...ON YOUR PART. That $31 is upfront, not per disc. Try RTFA.
Slow down turbo. $31/yr is the Service Cost for the Band. For $31/yr, tunecore/amazon will sell a Physical CD of your music for $8.99.
Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
While iTunes would be slightly bigger, Amazon is a big leap for Tunecore and I'm happy to see it even on this level.
According to their website, TuneCore already has a deal with the iTunes store, as well as most all of the other digital music services.
Who's going to feed all of these underprivileged lawyers once they stop being hired to sue students, 10 year old girls and dead grandmothers? Think of the henchmen! Won't somebody pleeeeeeeeeeease think of the henchmen!
massive read the freaking article before posting FAIL on your part, dude.
kthxbai
Sure, but why bother with physical media at all ? I imagine the margins are even better on digital distribution as there are no costs for pressing the CD's and printing the covers.
Buying content on physical media is /so/ last century.
The $31 is per YEAR, basically setting up an account like you would with some of those "work from home" outfits, but for a reasonable price. The TFA states that "all other costs are passed on to the buyer". What those costs work out to I don't know, but if you can sell a stamped CD at $10 and still make a buck or two minimum, then you're not doing bad.
What I want to know is how a major stamping operation can retool so easily between different CD's that they can still do this economically?
Used to be called mp3.com.
Aside from that indies have been around forever.
I've always said that artists who cry about this have options but they're too lazy/too talentless to do it for themselves. Oh well.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Maybe they should hire editors to clean up the summaries, verify links, and check for duplicate stories.
It was my understanding that the band paid $31 as sort of a "starting fee". After that initial $31, there is nothing more to pay (that is, if I understood what I read correctly). They're not trying to -sell- the discs for $31 a pop.
You're close, it's $31 a year. Which is why there's no "upfront costs" as the quote says at the bottom of the summary but instead a $31/year. Which is still really really cheap. Interestingly enough, Wired uses "upfront" costs to describe it, from the article:
Tunecore will charge just $31 a year in upfront fees to handle a 10-track CD from pressing to delivery, passing all other costs through to the buyer. In other words, the service promises to remove nearly all of the risks of short-run CD manufacturing, which can cost musicians hundreds or even thousands of dollars for discs that rarely sell enough to cover expenses.
I think people are missing the big picture where you don't have to go to multiple services for your music. You'll be able to buy big names like U2 and Weezer right next to little high school rock bands and indie artists. You make that possible so that the people don't know whether they're buying RIAA or not and who knows? Maybe the musician will decide the RIAA route is not really worth it?
My work here is dung.
31 USD is the set up fee, not the cost of the album.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
If you RTFA you see that the 31 dollars is per-year handling of your disc, you set the prices for your prints and get commision based on that... sheesh guys wake up
I find it hard to see much success when you're selling a CD at twice the normal retail price.
From the article: "If one of Amazon's 80 million customers buys your 10-song CD on Amazon for $8.98, you'll receive $3.59."
They are not selling the CDs at twice the normal price. The $31 is the annual fee the artist pays to be included on TuneCore, not the cost of a CD.
who the hell modded this guy up?
The cd's are going to be $8.99
SO actually, they'll be CHEAPER than most regular retail cd's.
Where do you get twice from?
The $31 startup cost paid by the Artist/Band?
I dont like the record labels but people do seem to forget they do some work of value - like marketing.
I put my bands album out on this website and how is anyone going to know its there?
Sure a couple of bands make it from word of mouth and internet activity, youtube etc but the vast majority dont.
Give me a big marketing budget and some pluggers any day.
I for one wait to see the lawsuit the RIAA is drawing up to bring down upon Amazon for squelching their draconian business practices by violating their 'copyright' on 'distribution of artistic works of an audio based nature'
You're thinking of the National Music Publishers' Association, which controls the rights to record cover versions and licenses them through its Harry Fox Agency. Your "RIAA" guess was close because a lot of labels in the RIAA are under the same management as publishers in the NMPA.
> Instead a flat fee of $31 for the artist makes me excited that this could really be big for indie artists
Wow, yeah.
So this basically reduces the major labels to their back catalog. No one that knows about this service would sign unless they already have major sales - and that's an even STRONGER argument for using this service. You retain all rights, get 40% of the take, and costs you one lunch bill?
What freaks me out is that the labels, after staring this in the face for decades, still can't figure out how to sell their catalog. They have 10,000,000 songs in the database, but the only thing they can figure out is how to sell the newest 40.
Maury
This is America, my friend. It can't be MY fault that I didn't read the article and misunderstood the summary. The article and summary were poorly written and therefore confused me. The writers should be forced to pay me for the time it took me to reply in error and for the public humiliation of being a victim of their poor writing. ;-)
from pressing to delivery
Maybe they mean pressing the "burn" button in Nero.
if Apple would do something like this with digital distribution on iTunes, where artists could upload their music and get the same 70/30 split as devs get for iPhone apps. The whole RIAA/ASCAP/BMI paradigm needs a good hard kick in the pants.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Too bad RTFS is retarded.
Dear drinkypoo,
As the author of the summary, I would like to respond to your statement of "Too bad read the read the fucking summary is retarded." I assume that you are referring to the quality of the summary although your sentence is a bit difficult for me to parse. In that case, I appreciate your constructive criticism and would like thank you for making me a better person and Slashdot user.
I hope that someday I might become as gifted at using the word "fuck" as you and perhaps I can beat my apparent bout with down syndrome that you so generously apply to every user of this entire site.
I'm sorry my stories don't pass 'journalistic muster.' I read the entire FAQ and didn't see anything about said muster, could you please expound upon that claim that submissions must pass it?
Also, I believe you are misplacing your disgust with the Firehose and directing it at users. This confuses me, as the users did not implement it. What confuses me even more is that it takes an action by you, drinkypoo, to get to said Firehose in order to 'rate' stories. You curse this UI yet you obviously used it and saw my story in Firehose.
As always, I love you dearly with all my heart and remember to tell drinkyurine that I miss him. Please accept my apologies for such a bad summary and don't let this obstruct our friendship which is sometimes as delicate as a flower covered in dew on a crisp summer morn.
Yours in song and dance,
eldavojohn
My work here is dung.
...as opposed to getting about 50 cents to a dollar on each CD, and that's if you're lucky to be Madonna or someone already famous...
I'd say it's a very good deal.
one obvious drawback to this model is that you canÃ(TM)t sell an on-demand CD at shows, where enthusiastic fans are most likely to pick one up.
I don't think there would be anyone stopping the band from buying the CDs from Amazon for $9 and selling them at the concert for $15, with an autograph and some booklet, or for something like $25-50 with a signed t-shirt and booklet.
They'd only lose about 5$ on each CD, but in the end it may still be better than ordering and paying in advance for a 500-1000 batch of discs at a duplication factory.
Digital downloads are a bit difficult to sell at a concert. Yeah, you could give them a flyer showing them where to go an itunes/amazon/whatever, but then you have to hope they actually bother to go make the purchase when they get home. Selling it to them on the spot, while they are still excited about your music, is probably better.
From the TuneCore-FAQ:
"What format must my artwork be in, in order to upload to TuneCore?
[...] You may not include: email addresses, URLs, any other contact information or any pricing information."
Is this a common (or acceptable) limitation?
sig? Oh, that sig...
Ten bucks isn't twice the normal retail price. RTFA.
"Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
I love to see an artist (eldavojohn) work in his preferred medium (wit). Smartly done.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Goodbye.
The problem with their model is that 35 of those newest 40 are recycled from that 10,000,000.
Put identity in the browser.
Sure, but why bother with physical media at all ?
Concerts, as LordKronos pointed out. Also dial-up users, especially if you record in a genre that's popular outside urban areas.
While I'm not myself, a good number of my friends are activly producing music.
This actually looks brilliant, I will definintly recommending.
You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
Ok, here the fixed cost is $31 and you get 40% of the sales. :).
What are these values when using RIAA middle man? If there it's also 40% or less of the sales, they got pretty much owned. If you get more % of the sales, then there's a point where it's more profitable to use RIAA than Amazon
what basis does the RIAA have to sue, anyway? if an artist is unsigned, and not part of the industry, the RIAA does not 'represent' them
Unpaid royalties for a cover version. The National Music Publishers' Association collects royalties for cover versions through its Harry Fox Agency, and a lot of publishers in the NMPA are under the same management as labels in the RIAA. Even if you set out not to record cover versions, you could be writing one and not even know it. Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music, 420 F. Supp. 177 (S.D.N.Y. 1976).
Uuh.. you know it's 2009, right ? You can whip out your iPhone, start up iTunes and buy and download the album right there, on the spot. You don't even have to wait in line at the stall that sells the CD's.
No one that knows about this service would sign unless they already have major sales...
Unfortunately this still doesn't provide a good alternative to one important service the major record labels provide: promotion.
Just because you put your independent band up on MySpace and SonicBids and your own website and sell your songs on iTunes and your CD on CDBaby doesn't magically make everyone in the world suddenly know you exist and want to buy your stuff. Somehow they still have to stumble across you in the first place, out of the trillions of other bands who have done the same as you.
This Amazon service is awesome, and it's part of a much larger trend that will ultimately make the major labels obsolete, but there's still more work to be done.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
TuneCore don't do the disk printing; that's done via Amazon's Disk on Demand service, which is actually performed by CreateSpace.
The service that TuneCore provides is that it handles submission of your album to a whole bunch of online music download stores, like Amazon, eMusic, iTunes, Napster etc. I think from skimming its faq it also handles receiving your payment all into one account.
Therefore, as they say, all of the money Amazon pay goes into your account.
They've been doing this for a little while, but now with the link with Amazon Disk on Demand, albums submitted to TuneCore can for the first time be bought on physical CDs.
No one that knows about this service would sign unless they already have major sales
I don't think that's true. People want more than to break even on the cost of a CD, they want fame and success. If you want your song played on the radio or a music video on MTV, you still need to go through a major label.
I'm not saying this is a good thing. It's a pretty strong financial argument against the labels, but some people want to be famous, too.
Being a computer scientist means you tell people how computers should work, not that you know how they actually work.
What's with the [sic]? What in this phrase is misspelled or unusual?
As I understand it, the "no" is unusual. There is an upfront cost of $31 per band per year.
I don't get the point of pressing a CD. Who has a CD player anyways nowadays? I mean, I can buy a in-car-stereo with a USB connector for 100! It home, most people have their computers hooked to some amplifier or active speakers anyways. And I don't know if anyone even owns a portable CD player anymore.
I should start making band sites, that work like this:
- A basic site and page structure, including tour dates, a "blog", a gallery, a discography, a biography and artist infos, and contact / fan page / forumm.
- A wonderful individual design. Alternatively they could use their own friend- or fan-made design. Doesn't matter. No licensing crap! They have own the whole site.
- A very simple on-site shop with all songs, bundles of songs as EPs or albums, and paypal to buy and directly download the files from the site. In MP3, AAC, OGG, WAV, FLAC, APE, BIN/CUE, etc. With all metadata (even lyrics), cover images, and some bonus stuff too.
- A admin area for the artist, to upload songs (as wav, or an albums in bin/cue), assign cover images, metadata, bonus-stuff-zips, and so on.
- An optional automatic insertion into every music shop on the net.
I would only have to program it once. Then an artist would only have to pay the design, plus a small fee for setup and a tiny part of the initial programming. I bet I could do this for $1100 with design, and $100 without.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I wonder how this will work out for established artists? I could see a lot of big name artists wanting to get out of their contracts and run on this service. They are already know, so the exposure and some sales are in the bag. But this way the music is cheaper, they get a bigger cut, and keep the rights. I am sure that established artists can pay for their own recording studio and techs, so I don't see the quality of this going down either.
Am I missing anything here, or is this going to be the future of the music industry?
Cue baseless RIAA lawsuits.
Congratulations on living up to the minimum possible standards. Making slashdot grate ...
I can't tell which part of my daily duties you're referring to here, is it the endless sets of metal sheets that I cut slashes and dots into that are later installed in the streets to prevent debris from entering and clogging my fair city's sewer system? Or are you referring to my ability to cause friction between Slashdot and another object/site by rubbing them together forcefully? I must say, I'm guilty of both!
No, no. The firehose sucks, AND the people using it suck.
Something about this sentence is very peculiar considering that in your prior post you say:
I sometimes use the firehose, but it is WAY too fucking painful these days.
I'm not a logician but if all who use the firehose suck ... and you yourself use it ... Wait, I think I've got it but I'm not sure. I shall construct a predicate calculus of these two rules and get back to you once I can conclude something from them.
My work here is dung.
I've been a massive fan of CDBaby ordering discs straight from people like Anni Rossi but it has a minimum order those artists have to meet.
I'm just curious how this minimum works. Can you provide some more info, or a link to the details? The reason I ask is I've sold albums through CDBaby and wasn't aware of anything of the sort.
Actually, Wikipedia tells me that "CD Baby has no minimum sales requirement for members; an artist who sells only one CD every 20 years would still remain a part of the company's catalogue."
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1122770/ save The Middleman his middlecar and his cute sidekick
Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
Committed fans are (I believe) happy to spend more money if they know that a significant percentage is going to the artist.
Committed fans pay for live music and share the other stuff.
mmmm...forbidden donut
1. No one listens to radio anymore for music.
I forgot about the traffic, sports, and political commentary, but if even the most poor and uneducated use MP3 players to listen to music these days.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Unless there's some evil clause in the contract prohibiting reselling, it seems like it would work.
Unfortunately this still doesn't provide a good alternative to one important service the major record labels provide: promotion.
Well, this is the essence of what the future of the Record industry is, isn't it? You have two distinct businesses that are finally getting separated. On the one hand, you have the music sales group which makes money based on sales of the actual music. On the other, you have a marketing/promotion group which makes money off of concerts and the like. The former is a dead business model that'll go away with services like the one mentioned in this story. The latter is something that an agent or a marketing company or a PR firm can do. Really, this is what a record company will eventually evolve to.
It's called getting off your ass.
Send CD's to radio stations to get air play. Get out and PLAY at better venues. The Intersection in Grand Rapids is a little crap hole bar that a lot of indies got their leap into fame from.
Get out, play for people, get Cd's in the hands of people that will play it on the air.
If you think as a "band" you can sit back and wait for it to happen, you smoked way too much dope.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
At the very worst a musician could buy their own cd at retail and sell that at the show. They'll get a discount when they get 'payed' for the sale. But I'd be surprised if the service doesn't offer some way to order cd's directly - much like Hulu does for authors. This is pretty much the exact same model - except for whatever reason it's much cheaper. (I'm comparing this to the cost of selling a book on Amazon via hulu with an isbn, etc.)
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
I think people are missing the big picture where you don't have to go to multiple services for your music.
Not only does this put indie bands next to U2, but it even opens the doors for a whole new level of artist "below" the indie artist, because you no longer have to drop a couple grand to press a thousand CDs.
Currently, if you want to sell a professionally made CD (ie. not a CD-R), you pretty much have to order at least 1000 of them. But what about bands who know they're not going to sell that many? Sure, CDBaby will take as few as 5 discs into their inventory if that's all you think you're going to sell, but what do you do with the other 995 you had to manufacture in order to be able to manufacture any at all?
With this service, if 5 is all you're going to sell, then 5 is all that will be produced, and the total cost to you is only $31 -- which, to most artists, is worth it even if they don't make that money back in sales.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
WTF - are you new here? :D
That would be too much like work and we're here to avoid THAT!
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
Some committed fans are too old to go out to live shows very often. (Although I took my 9-year old to see Chris Duarte, and he wants to do it again.)
As far as sharing, the best fans buy the CDs (if the money goes to the artist) and then shares the music to help make more fans.
Actually, the BEST fan would just send wheelbarrows of cash and hookers, but that type of fan is all-too-rare.
In law school, a bunch of us formed "The Learned Hands" and laid down some tracks. I had seen an ad for TuneCore somewhere on the web, so we uploaded our album for distribution. Sadly, having graduated school, the band no longer exists, but it's cool to say that our original music has been heard in Germany and the UK (Someone streamed "Ten Point Buck" and "Sleepy Hollow").
My experience with TuneCore was great! The initial costs were very low - I think it's like a dollar per track, and a dollar per online music store. And what do you know, our music is available on iTunes, Napster, Rhapsody, eMusic, all over the world! Depending on the vendor, you get one or two cents every time the song is streamed, and for downloads, it's usually 65% or 70% of the purchase price. Uploaded the tracks in FLAC format too, actually, and everything turned out swell.
This is the type of innovation that is changing the music industry, and I don't think the RIAA knows how to, or even can, keep up.
1. Record your album in your garage/basement
2. Upload your tracks to TuneCore for distribution
3. ???
4. Profit!
The problem for my band has been step three, since we no longer officially exist (Singers are in CO and Philly, bassist in VT, and I'm moving to BFE), but we did sell 3 copies on AmazonMP3 and a few tracks on iTunes, plus about $0.76 worth of streaming on Napster and Rhapsody.
In conclusion, TuneCore allows Joe Sixpack to (sort of) achieve his rockstar dreams, at least in terms of getting the music out there and making it available.
Isn't it interesting how you come to recognize posters based solely on their sigs???
Cool. So you've limited your market to people that own iphones. What about EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD?
No one that knows about this service would sign unless they already have major sales...
Unfortunately this still doesn't provide a good alternative to one important service the major record labels provide: promotion.
Just because you put your independent band up on MySpace and SonicBids and your own website and sell your songs on iTunes and your CD on CDBaby doesn't magically make everyone in the world suddenly know you exist and want to buy your stuff. Somehow they still have to stumble across you in the first place, out of the trillions of other bands who have done the same as you.
This Amazon service is awesome, and it's part of a much larger trend that will ultimately make the major labels obsolete, but there's still more work to be done.
I would purchase them through Amazon if they didn't have ties to the RIAA. Today I'm careful NOT to purchase new music sponsered by the RIAA however sites like secondspin.con or Amazon provide a means to purchase music that's in great condition AND not another dime goes to the RIAA.
works for me :D
Has Comcast disconnected your Internet account? Same here. You can read about it at http://comcastissue.blogspot.com
Or an "OFFICIAL" bootleg with an extra track of the artists saying "hello to my fans" - that you make on your computer and the roadies sell at the back of the club... heheheheh.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
There's nothing stopping you from buying tons of your own CDs from Amazon, with what's essentially a 40% discount and selling them at your gig at the appropriate markup to make whatever profit you're looking into.
The beauty of the free market. You'd be speculating in your own band/concert!
Better do a lot of stage dives and that thing that guy who played guitar for The Who did too. ;-)
Send your spendthrift head of state this
Send CD's to radio stations to get air play.
Most stations won't even open the package. College stations might, but mainstream ones aren't interested.
Get out and PLAY at better venues.
That works locally, but what about the rest of the world?
Get out, play for people, get Cd's in the hands of people that will play it on the air.
I'm not saying that it can't be done, and I certainly don't advocate bands sitting on their asses and expecting to become instant multi-millionaires because they recorded an album. But marketing music is hard, especially in a world that has as many bands as this one has. It takes a lot of effort to stand out and get noticed, and you have to recognize that just because you may be good at writing and playing songs doesn't mean you're magically good at marketing those songs. Most bands need someone with knowledge and experience to handle that for them.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
It's called gigging.
You play to an audience. Dish out some flyers. A few of them like you and check your web site or add you as a friend on MySpace/Facebook. Their friends might check you out too.
You even get paid for the gig.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Yes, but then they would have to hire editors to clean up the summaries, verify links, and check for duplicate stories.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Comment removed based on user account deletion
That helps, but it isn't what really matters. Besides promotion, the biggest thing labels offer is a distribution model. Have you seen the end of the aisle displays at Best Buy and Walmart? You don't get those by being a talented artist, or by "getting off your ass", you get them because they have deals with record labels. If Best Buy wants to sell the big name artists, they will have to sell and advertise some of the smaller bands too. Getting played on the radio is very similar. While there isn't outright open payola as much anymore, there is definitely implied indirect payola. Having talent and working hard will greatly increase your chance for success, but if you don't have someone with some sway behind you, even the best efforts often go nowhere.
"But this one goes to 11!"
To be fair who gives a shit about them. They can mime to their crappy cover versions while the world moves on and renders them and their masters obsolete.
This is not entirely true in Europe, where licenses are still restricted by the artist copyright agencies. I've got my music distributed through Tunecore, which is an aggregrator and still I am missing a lot of income because my artist rights are not fully defended through exclusive contracts via a private company...
This is managed by Sabam, our RIAA in Belgium, which demands exclusive contracts like many others in Europe. They demand everything or nothing; which will limit the artist to promote and distribute his music without paying blood money.
Without our artist agencies backing up true royalty rights of the common artist; Tunecore (or any aggregrator); on-line store or physical sales and sales agreements will limit the artist for full coverage. Billboards, radio rights, artist representation, cd pressing and copyrights are being repressed from the common people as we speak. Children are being limited with their creative ideas because Sabam deletes their creations! It has to stop somewhere ....
By loosening up the copyrights a bit, the artist can choose his own distribution model and domains, while still getting royalty incomes from radio, television and cd-sales; also new artists will have a lot more chance to get on the bandwagon of the media industry. Maybe that's why they are so afraid of it, accepting such model; I don't know...
I've been writing about this extensively in previous linkings and: Music Industry, Wake up call for alternative licensing!. A very good read about this from Jam Young, this article (in dutch!) and many more available through google how they operate ...
In the meantime, I'm still forbidden of using Sabam because I don't want to sign away exclusivity contracts without end or real support towards the artist except limitations ...
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
There are music stores available on other devices as well. By selling CD's you're solving the wrong problem. Don't sell CD's to people who can't buy music wirelessly, Get wireless music downloads to people who don't already have that option.
TuneCore's CEO put it this way: "As an artist, you have unlimited physical inventory, made on demand, with no [sic] upfront costs and worldwide distribution to anyone who orders it at Amazon.com."
'no' was spelled correctly.
Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
While this looks good for low quantities, a lot of people don't like burned CD-Rs which these will probably be (but I'll hold off judgement on that until the service is launched).
If you are selling 1000CDs, the deal isn't so great. If you go direct to a pressing plant you can get 1000 CDs made for $999. If you match Amazon's $8.98 price, your profit will be $7,899 minus postage costs, which will be zero if you sell at your live gigs, or at most $4,000 if you sell them all through a distributor like CD Baby.
In comparison the Amazon deal would give you just $3590 profit (with postage paid), but you won't have any stock to sell at gigs or mail out for promotion unless you buy it at retail, you're limited to just the packaging they support (no gatefolds, digipacks, free postcards, signed copies, 2CD sets etc.), and unlike mailing them yourselves, you don't get to build up a mailing list of fan's addresses, which can be invaluable later in your carreer.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Just because you put your independent band up on MySpace and SonicBids and your own website and sell your songs on iTunes and your CD on CDBaby doesn't magically make everyone in the world suddenly know you exist and want to buy your stuff. Somehow they still have to stumble across you in the first place, out of the trillions of other bands who have done the same as you.
This is where I think the future of the recording labels lie. Amazon and iTunes (as well as other services) have shown that distribution is being taken out of the labels' hands. Now Amazon is working to take manufacturing out of their hands also. Recording has been practically out of their hands for awhile now. (Recording artists can buy what used to be thought of as professional level gear for relatively little money now.) The only thing left is Promotion.
The way I see the future of labels (if you'll even be able to call them that) is this: Band X wants to record some songs and sell them. They buy the equipment to record, sign up with Amazon/Apple/whoever to manufacture/distribute, and then sign up with Label A for promotion. Label A gets a cut of the sales, but doesn't own any rights to the music. If Band X is unhappy with how Label A is promoting them, they can drop the label and move on. Label A gets a final paycheck (for work done up to contract termination) and then the next promotion label gets the sales cut paychecks. Labels will have an incentive to treat their bands well and increase sales because otherwise they (the labels) don't get paid. The current labels will fight this tooth and nail, of course, but I think that it is almost inevitable.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
So maybe you aren't an instant star. Big Fucking Deal.
Do you think that the guy behind Portal's Still Alive song was picked for that honor because the Valve devs heard him on the radio?
Do you think the reason someone gets invited to PAX every year is because he's got an agent behind him doling out the payola to Tycho and Gabe?
No, you can't find their CD's browsing Best Buy or Wal-Mart. But I bet you they still make enough on their work that they can afford dinner at the end of the day.
Why would you do that? It's likely far cheaper to get them stamped at a local shop or just burn copies yourself and let people know they're burned copies... sell them for $5 or whatever or even give them away with a note that they can buy a stamped copy at Amazon.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
a music video on MTV
Hahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
-deep breath-
Hahahahahahaha
I don't give a shit. If the record labels die I'll join the chorus singing "Hooray, the labels are dead." I'm saying it's not going to happen.
Everyone seems to think that if we just get right combination of technology and business saavy then a company like TuneCore can kill the record labels and usher in a new era of creative freedom. But guess what: people WANT to be told what to like. The 98% of the population that listens to music in their car, at work and in the gym doesn't have time to listen to 99 crappy indie albums to find the one they actually like. And even if they did have the time many wouldn't want to. And even then most people just want to listen to what people like them are listening to so others will think they are cool.
Certainly if recommender technologies keep getting better it will help, but they're not perfect now, and it will be a while before we can go completely without a middleman.
Being a computer scientist means you tell people how computers should work, not that you know how they actually work.
What?!? The labels working for the band?!? Blasphemy!!! :)
What you've described is exactly how the industry should work, and I agree that it will get there. Interestingly enough, while the major labels are fighting this evolution tooth and nail, the small independent labels are already starting to do exactly what you described.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
I know a lot of musicians. None of them are after fame and success, at least where success = huge sales, tons of money, etc..
People after MTV and commercial radio airplay are not what I would call musicians or artists. Some people who end up on those venues are genuine artists, but invariably that's not their goal--it just happened.
Ultimately, talent, skill, and quality aren't vectors to fame, so if the 'fame' model dies horribly, I don't think anyone will be upset. Well, consumers and artists won't be upset at least. Businesses and shills might be upset that their free ride is over.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Send your CD to the throngs of Music podcasts and blogs. They will listen and if it's not junk they talk about it. There is a HUGE group of people that listen to Indifeed podcast.
Embrace the marketing system that the RIAA ignores. On the Endcap of Walmart is not where you want to be. Being on the endcap there means you are getting $0.06 per disc sold... No thanks.
Honestly this stuff is not that hard, Stop trying to think the way the RIAA and labels WANT YOU to think.
P.S. It's easy to get past the radio station mail guards. You gotta learn Guerrilla Marketing.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I don't think there would be anyone stopping the band from buying the CDs from Amazon for $9 and selling them at the concert for $15...
...or buying the CDs from Amazon for $9 and selling them at the concert for $9, since they're getting $3.59 back from Amazon anyway. Maybe round it up to $10 since it's easier to deal with 10-dollar bills at the merchandise table.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
As always, I love you dearly with all my heart and remember to tell drinkyurine that I miss him. Please accept my apologies for such a bad summary and don't let this obstruct our friendship which is sometimes as delicate as a flower covered in dew on a crisp summer morn.
HAHAHAHAHAH -- brilliant!
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
In that scenario the artist won't make any money from fans like me who often prefer the clean, well-produced recorded versions to the live versions - although it depends on the band really. Some are great live, most are.. meh. Plus when I have to resort to getting music from P2P networks I have no guarantee that it will be at a decent quality. I've had to torrent the Bleach soundtrack and a couple of Android Lust albums as I can't find them easily on CD or MP3 download here in the UK (okay so one of the Android lust albums was available from a 3rd party seller on amazon, but at about 9 times the cost of buying any other normal album), and they're both only 128kbps MP3s.
which is totally what she said
I think you're assuming that the majority of consumers care whether a given musician is considered art, or are even capable of telling the difference.
Artists make art that they think is good. Fame/Success/Money-seekers make a product that will satisfy the desires of a large number of people. Do you really think good art will ever replace commercial art? Good art by its very nature challenges people, and most people don't want to be challenged. They want to go out and dance and party and get laid. And that is, not surprisingly, what most of the Top 40 are about.
I would argue that people will be upset if pointless, fun, mind-numbing, easy to listen to music dies in favor serious, artistic music. But we won't ever find out, because the market will always favor what's popular over what's good. If the labels die, the populist musicians will rise to prominence through a different venue and the true artists will still only be listened to by that small segment of the population that cares about artistic music.
Being a computer scientist means you tell people how computers should work, not that you know how they actually work.
That's not even the worst of it- My band name (and potentially, our upcoming album's name too) is a URL!
Everywhere I go, I run into this problem. I'm going to have to take my business elsewhere, but I'm starting to think that goatse.cx just wasn't meant to be released upon the world just yet.
Well, a natural evolution of something like this would be for Amazon to have an Internet radio service where music tracks are automatically selected for playing based on user preferences be it by user votes, sales, user contributed play-lists or any other options they might choose - artists that sell via this service would be able to choose if they want their music played on Amazon radio or not.
Actually, such a kind of "automated" Internet radio with a large music catalog backing it could potentially have a near infinite number of channels: just give the listeners "personal radio streams" and a large number of variables they can individual adjust to tweak them (say, music genre, Amazon review stars, year of recording, number of user playlists it is on and more).
...when getting a 40% cut is made to sound like a good deal. Sounds just as bad as Handango's cut of mobile app sales.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Tunecore only charges you 99 cents to add iTunes distribution for an album. It's only 99 cents per store actually and you can also put it into Rhapsody, Napster, eMusic, Amazon MP3 and a half dozen other digital distribution stores. The $31 charge is actually comprised of a $20 flat setup fee for the album per year, plus 99 cents per track (10 tracks avg) and 99 cents for the digital distribution store. Tunecore does not keep a dime of what you earn from the online stores, after you pay the initial fee, unlike CDBaby which takes a percentage of all digital sales on top of their setup fees. iTunes pays 70 cents per track sold to the artist who uses Tunecore to distribute their music.
The big record labels run things like a cartel. Bands have no chance with them, and no chance without them. The only sensible thing to do is boycott major radio and major labels altogether.
Well,if you can perform live...get out and TOUR.
That's how bands like Led Zeppelin did it...they certainly didn't have a ton of worldwide promotion pushing them into the spotlight. They worked...concert tour after concert tour after concert tour.
They earned their reputation, and they were actually extremely media 'shy' (hence the lack of that much live recorded material on them).
I'd dare say they made it pretty big without the 'promotion' of a major label.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The latter is something that an agent or a marketing company or a PR firm can do. Really, this is what a record company will eventually evolve to.
I agree, your post is spot-on.
The first thing that has to happen though is to get the record companies to not be so damn dangerous. Pull their fangs.
They killed internet radio because of ideas like this, you know. They still have enough power to get insane laws like this one passed (you actually have to pay the RIAA to broadcast your own unlicensed non-RIAA member music if you can imagine that!) And they'll do anything they can to remain relevant.
Free money and piles of it - who wouldn't fight for that?
So good job Amazon (never thought I'd say that) and keep chipping away at these jerks. Eventually they'll go the way of the dodo.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
The RIAA has not had a reason to exist since the internet come of age. I will use this service in the future since it gives the artists 40% instead of the 10-14% from major labels, and prefer to purchase physical media and rip myself.
I don't think the Major Record Lables provide as much as you're assuming. Yes, they provide promotion, but their ability is somewhat limited, as they tend to fall back on the systems they know and understand, and are hesitant to embrace the new ways of communicating. Worse, they tend to market only the music that fits their specific mold. If you're somewhat of a niche artist, they'll have no idea what to do with you.
:)
An Artist with technology saavy will be able to put together a much larger footprint on the internet than the record lables could ever hope for. Using Twitter, a blog, youtube, an active website, myspace (shudder), and now Amazon, it's actually much easier for them to get their music directly to the fans, no major label needed.
A prime example of this is Amanda Palmer. She maintains a very healthy presence online, and is actively seeking to break with her major record label, as they're entirely unable to market her, and make money off of her.
We may be seeing the beginning of the end for the record labels. I can't say that bothers me much.
--Jimmy
It is the way things are done, you get an agent, a record label and advances. That you pay for everything yourself is in the details and lets face it, musicians ain't the brightest people around.
Also, don't forget the appeal of advances. Sure, you would pay them back if succesful but it is money. Right now, not after you sold copies.
This new scheme is for people who believe in their own music, create their own music and are seeing it is as a job, a career. Not a get rick quick scheme.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I'm not sure you understand the problem. The problem is to make money and sell your music to as many people as possible. Completely ignoring the vast majority of people without phones capable of downloading music doesn't make sense. I would say in this case if you are trying to fix peoples choice of phone, you are indeed solving the wrong problem.
Perhaps this is just too easy, but I find I cannot resist the low-hanging fruit...
So perhaps I once sucked, but have given it up.
No, my friend, I don't think you've quite kicked that habit yet. Perhaps a 12-step program is in order?
You seem to think that the costs of a pressing 1000 CD's is $999 that therefor this is the entire cost of selling these CD's.
What about shipping? Getting the CD's from the plant to your home. Storing them safely as you won't sell them all at once. Setting up a website to sell them. Getting a system to accept payments, which costs money to subscribe to. Shipping to the customers, not just postage but the labor involved in handling the packages. Making the packages. Buying the packages. Handling returns, lost shipments, complaints in general. Keeping track of all your costs for your books.
Can you do all that for 31 dollars? Doubt it. Do you really think you can get better margins then Amazon?
And why can't you make your own CD's as well? This contract ain't exclusive.
No, some larger bands who have a lot of business savy may want to control it all themselves, but if you just want to offer your CD online then this is a very good deal with an extremely payout.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Just curious...on laws/regulations passed in recent years. Don't you have to pay some place (Soundcheck or something) a great deal of money if you are streaming music EVEN IF these are indie artists that give you full permission to play their stuff?
Seems like if you could get past that...just about anybody with a server could play DJ with the indie tunes, and all point them to the Amazon store for purchases....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I for one....have never bought a tune 'online'. I always buy the CD so I can rip it to lossy formats as needed, but, have the best format I can get for my home stereo listening. (Yes, I have that good of a stereo).
Now..if they ever start offering online digital purchases, in lossless formats...at CD (hopefully BETTER) fidelity, I for one will be the first in line for purchase. I wouild like to backup my copies of those purchases to CD/DVD for backups.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
no "downsides"? Things would be "upended". While we would retain backsides, we would be deprived of foreheads (and more people of foreskins).
Life would be downgraded, and some would feel sideswiped, by underhanded, overbearing people who cannot be aboveboard. But, at least we might not have the problem of innocent bystanders.
But, with computers, we would be deprived of throughput... or output.... LOL!
(I think i'll go outside to get some fresh air...)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Cool. So you've limited your market to people that own iphones. What about EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD?
I dunno about GP, but if my music was only for the type of people that own iPhones... yeah, I'd probably kill myself.
Never too old for metal! \ooo/
Touring doesn't mean you don't also need promotion. As someone who has actually travelled to another city to play in an empty room (literally — the only people there were the staff, and whenever they stepped outside for a smoke, we were actually playing to an empty room), trust me that you need promotion as well.
There are ways to promote yourself, as many in this thread have pointed out. Some artists are coming up with really clever ways to do it through the Internet. Personally, I'm thrilled with the opportunities that the 'Net presents for artists.
But not everyone has figured out how to take advantage of it yet. That's the part that services like this one from Amazon are not addressing.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
Radio gets paid through advertising. To get people to listen they play the popular songs. The RIAA can control the playlist all it wants, but eventually some of the more popular songs are going to show up through the non-label medium. At this point the radio will have start making choices about either letting listeners leave or start playing music from the non-label sources.
It won't happen overnight, but this is the direction that the industry is headed.
We do. It's our bread-and-butter. We've been delivering music to iTunes--half a million songs already--for three years now. :)
--Peter
peter@tunecore.com
For live gigs, start locally ... move up from there. As for radio, I'm not sure many would play your stuff, unless there was a decent local groundswell of support. How about Pandora, Last.fm, etc?
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who
has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was,
since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He
will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
Knowing when to come in out of the rain; Why the early bird gets the
worm; Life isn't always fair; and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend
more than you can earn ) and reliable strategies (adults, not children,
are in charge).
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but
overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy
charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended
from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for
reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the
job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly
children.
It declined even further when schools were required to get parental
consent to administer sun lotion or an Aspirin to a student; but could
not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an
abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses;
and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a
burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to
realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in
her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by
his wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason.
He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;
I Know My Rights
I Want It Now
Someone Else Is To Blame
I'm A Victim
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
THIS is what the record labels should fear the most.
Many of us really only have a handful of interesting songs to sing. The rest of it is recycled over and over again.
A model like this, if adopted widely, would destroy the career musician path for all but an exceptional few. One-hit-wonders would be the expectation, and a wonderful variety of good music would be consumed.
Most stations won't even open the package. College stations might, but mainstream ones aren't interested.
Incorrect. You send them the CD, and then have a few different people call in and request the song over the course of a few days. The typical DJ will get curious and pop it open (or adventurous and play it). Of course, this goes hand-in-hand with all of the other steps my GP was mentioning. None of those points alone would get you in the limelight, typically, anyway. They're a concerted effort where the consolidation is exponentially more powerful than the sum of its parts.
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
I hope their in house Photoshop skills are better than those demonstrated in the screenshots of the template page in Wired's article. Someone should inform TuneCore that reflections do not make the objects being reflected translucent, and that design notes ("Black") in the default font should be deleted from the final image.
There are 1.1... kinds of people.
Read the summary twice to make sure....wtf is going to pay $31 for a fucking cd?!?
Ooooh, right, the summary is bullshit. The service itself looks to be fantastic, tho.
They buy the equipment to record, sign up with Amazon/Apple/whoever to manufacture/distribute, and then sign up with Label A for promotion. Label A gets a cut of the sales, but doesn't own any rights to the music.
I see the future a bit different. I would like to pay to the promotion companies (labels?) a fee per service with a clear way to measure the effectiveness. I don't think they will get any where with a business case like: "Give me a fix part of your income and trust me, I am doing what is best for you."
Oh man, I have to wipe coffee off my keyboard... That's the funniest post I've ever read on Slashdot! Ran out of mod points before I got to it though... =(
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
Incorrect. You send them the CD, and then have a few different people call in and request the song over the course of a few days. The typical DJ will get curious and pop it open (or adventurous and play it).
Unfortunately, that's not how it works. As I said before, it may work with college radio, but mainstream radio doesn't let the DJ just pop in whatever he or his callers want to hear.
They get their music from a central playlist, which is why they won't even open the package if you send them a CD. If it didn't come from the central source, then they're just not interested.
Some stations do have (very limited) "free play" slots, but good luck getting in on those slots. Getting all your friends to call in and request your song is a start, but don't think that you're the only one doing this. I hope you have lots of friends.
I'm not saying it's impossible for a truly independent artist to get on mainstream radio. It's just not as simple as sending in a CD and they'll happily play it.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
By "a cut of the sales" I meant that they would get a small (say 3%) cut on song sales. This would give the labels-turned-promotion-companies an incentive to increase sales. Every extra sale is more money in their pocket. With a flat fee, they would earn the same amount of money if they ran a nationwide TV/Radio campaign or if they sat on their rumps and just did nothing. Granted, I don't think any "no nothing" labels would survive, but they might cut corners on their promotions in an effort to raise their profits.
I do agree that there should be a clear way to measure their effectiveness, though. This way the band can tell whether they want to keep or ditch the label. In addition, the labels could use the effectiveness ratings to sign up new talent. ("Band X saw their sales jump 150% when they switched from Label Y to us.")
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Shipping, storing and setting up a website for a thousand cd's is not that of a big deal; there are plentoria of services around, ready available for the artist. Package handling and all that jazz is possible using open source software. Nobody told music is a career which starts from the first CD or did we?
It depends all in how far you want to go; since; Amazon is looking to this in a very commercial way for those who like to pay up for it; although those knowing the ropes will be rather selecting the real thing with all links attached instead of hanging with an Amazon solution... Maybe you are one of those people who sticks with Google tools only till something bad happens ;)
Also, Amazon does not offer which a custom e-shop can offer, a custom website, defined towards the artist, integration and all that; which is not that expensive either these times!... Still, Amazon or a custom solution doesn't guarantee your cd will be either succes from the first beginning ...
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
It's like all those printshops around; small amounts will get you nice prints in return but when you want something printed in large amounts, you will pay less for it with a professional and get often better materials in return; unless they are having their own printing facilities.
When the investment is not known, you can still see how much you really WANT to invest in getting your product on the market. With the physical product local stores and bars could be reached too while this would be out-of-reach with the Amazon solution; unless paying more to Amazon for that; with the Internet product you will get only coverage of those on the Internet. The middle way needs to be set by those who are running the band / the artist / those knowing how wanted they are on cd or on stage...
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Personally, I can't even begin to imagine the RIAA ignoring this. They are bound to whine and cry "Foul play" in... 4... 3... 2... 1...
An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
I suppose the question I'd have to ask is: "Why would a truly independent artist want to get on mainstream radio in the first place?" I mean, it's not as though that's the only way to be financially successful making music, is it? And hell, if you're truly independent (whatever the hell that means), I'd be willing to wager that college radio listeners are going to be a lot more interested in your music than people listening to mainstream radio.
I guess it's the mainstream radio + truly independent construction that's giving me a bit of cognitive dissonance here.
words, words, words, lemur, words, words words
The arrangement between TuneCore and Amazon is certainly an improvement over the current situation, but it doesn't cut out the middleman — it replaces him. Record companies could dictate terms to artists and consumers because they parlayed their control over the distribution of the physical product into a comprehensive racket. This development merely confirms that there is a new distribution channel for music... and that it is dominated by the likes of Apple and Amazon. Jeff Price may have struck this deal because he's a decent fellow who just wants to help music makers and music lovers meet; but I'm pretty sure Jeff Bezos only agreed because he wants to be Caliph instead of the Caliph and, in this space, the RIAA is clearly the Caliph.
One of the things the Opie & Anthony Show revealed about "regular radio" in one of their rants about the industry is that most radio stations do not honor requests, even though they solicit them by broadcasting their "request lines". What they do instead is record the caller's request, and if it happens to match up with something already on the official playlist at some point in the future, they play that call as the lead-in to the song, making it appear that they fulfilled a request, but in reality it was something that was already scheduled to appear in the rotation. Needless to say, if your request isn't on the "approved" list, lotsa luck getting the DJ to gamble with their jobs playing an unsanctioned record.
---PCJ
What's the RIAA's job again? I thought the headline meant that Amazon would just the listeners directly...
Or you could, you know, buy the CDs from Amazon and sell them to your fans at the show. Sure, you pay full price, but you'll get a 40% kickback, but you can sell them for less than Amazon and still make a profit, and it will be cheaper than doing a small press run.
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Why would a truly independent artist want to get on mainstream radio in the first place?
Because it's one way to promote your band. It's not the only way, but it's one way. To be clear, my original point was simply that services like this don't provide promotion. Someone else responded that you can promote yourself by sending CDs to radio stations, and I simply said that this doesn't work for mainstream stations. If you're an artist, it's totally your call if you want to try to get onto mainstream radio. I'm just saying you won't get there just by sending in a CD.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
There's so many responses here I literally don't know where to begin. So I'll just say, we're all totally psyched up for this and the initiatives happening now. If anyone has questions, just write me. Thanks for the lively debate! --Peter peter@tunecore.com
Fair enough. We're probably in agreement that this isn't neccesarily the ideal service for someone looking for a cheap way to get on mainstream radio (I doubt such a thing exists). But for a band, such as the one I'm in at the moment, that's looking for a quick and easy way to get some physical albums out there - promotion, marketing, etc. aside - this looks pretty neat.
Sure, it doesn't give you stuff to sell at shows. But hell - make 30 or 40 D.I.Y. copies of some B-sides and demos, slap a link to the TuneCore site on it, and sell it for $4 a pop. As for the promotion side of things, well that's another question. I'd say there's plenty of ways to promote yourself without needing to get played on the Edge/Peak/Rock/GenericMonosyllable 103.3. Maybe those ways won't translate into massive success, but they could translate into a comfortable living. And personally? If I can make a comfortable living playing music, I'd be pretty damned happy.
words, words, words, lemur, words, words words
My suspicion is just like FOSS means that there will be no next Microsoft, open access for music means that there will be no next (who's the current superstar?).
N.B.: Joan Baez or Bob Dylan style figures will still emerge, but they won't have the dominance that they did when the media companies controlled who could get published. It may be more like the 1960's when you had the Beatles, but you also had Jefferson Airplane, the Grateful Dead, Country Joe and the Fish, and MANY others. (I listed the ones *I* liked. Others would have very different lists.) Diversity of style, not everyone in lockstep.
P.S.: Copyright laws still need to change. Joan Baez should never have been allowed to copyright folksongs. Technically, I suppose that she only copyrighted a particular arrangement of them, but she didn't list what was new and what was old. This shouldn't be allowed unless ANY change that you make allows you to claim a new copyright. And any would include just changing the key or the tempo.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
But for a band, such as the one I'm in at the moment, that's looking for a quick and easy way to get some physical albums out there ... this looks pretty neat.
I agree. I intend to make use of this service as well.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
Well done, sir.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Hmm. I think we agree, but are approaching the issue from different angles.
I have no problems with fun, pointless, fluffy music. I have a fair bit of it in my collection at home, and put it on the playlist regularly. I don't really draw a line between 'fun/popular' music and 'artistic' music. I do, however, draw a line between music written as music vs. music generated as marketing. Mostly it's a matter of intent (and yes, ability) for me. Music is written for the want of writing, performing, and reaching out to people; and if that means a song that gets people up DANCING, that's fine. It's when people sit in an office, generate a song via a formula, based on target radio demographics and sales numbers; then assign star status to fame-seekers who can't sing (because you can always fix it up with autotune), THAT'S what I'd like to see die.
Popularity should be about what people want to hear (or see, or read), not what they're told to enjoy. The problem with the system at present is that the charts and radio exposure are so tightly controlled by the marketing agencies and labels that good musicians--either populist or serious--are being marginalised and until recently have been blocked from accessing much of the market that would appreciate them.
Lemme give you some concrete examples. First, assume that the 'target audience' here is the (very broad) 15-35 year old group which actively listens to popular radio (either pop, country, rap, classic rock, or the like). OK, ready? Here we go...
Maybe one person in 50 (or even 500) might listen to and enjoy the Fiery Furnaces if exposed to them. How many are exposed to them now via the existing commercial media structure? Roughly zero. They get zero airplay, outside of public and campus radio.
The B-52s. Fun, airheaded, silly summer pop. I will stand here and claim that if they were a new band now, they'd never get the airplay they did when they started--because they weren't packaged by the industry. There are an endless number of bands out there that are just plain ol' fun (my brother's country band is one of 'em), but can't get airplay because of the mechanisms of the industry.
Conversely, you have "musicians" that aren't musicians at all--they can't write, they can't play, and they can't sing--either lipsyncing (a la Britney Spears), or relying entirely on autotune (nearly EVERYONE - let's pick on Kelly Clarkson for the sake of argument), and performing a song written as a marketing tool (sometimes simply album sales, but often other products or backers--"Hannah Montana" as a musician? She's a Disney Character folks!) Oh yes, and false anger for the sake of controversy and...sales. (Pretty much the entire rap industry.)
The music we listen to doesn't all have to be serious, artistic, complex stuff, but it should be written for musicans and fans to enjoy--and the industry prevents that as much as possible.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
The music we listen to doesn't all have to be serious, artistic, complex stuff, but it should be written for musicans and fans to enjoy--and the industry prevents that as much as possible.
They aren't doing a very good job at it. There is only one band on a major label that I would still buy CDs from (Tool), and I think that they are about ready to pull a Trent Reznor. Everything else is either old, on an independent label, or self-released. I doubt I'm an exception to the rule, either, yes I might be a little uncommon, but not rare.
As for pop, thats how media markets work. You start with a single channel, and eventually is blows up into millions of specialty markets. The B-52s might not have been massive, but they would have had a respectable fan-base and following. There is way to many bands/artists out there now for even a decent fraction of them to become house hold names.
I look at modern popular music as fashion accessories, or lifestyle products. You wear it as a kid to show all the other kids who you are, what you stand for. Big music is a brand, and brands need tons of money behind them to be recognizable.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
We used TuneCore to distribute the album that I engineered and produced, it worked out really well. I'm just waiting for TuneCore to get their widget back up and running and their service will be perfect. Amazon previously used a different on-demand CD manufacturing service which would have left us with almost nothing in the way of royalties and looked like questionable quality, plus we wanted to press Vinyl so we handled all the physical stuff ourselves. I can confirm that both TuneCore and Amazon's CD services (at least as of two months ago) were doing burned CDRs with dye-sub printed surfaces. For about $1,000 you can actually press CDs instead of burn them, so if you can sell any kind of quantity it is totally worth it.
Still, the Amazon Advantage (advantage.amazon.com) program let us get our vinyl onto their site without any issues. We only did a limited run of promo CDs (mixonic) and have pretty much skipped the CD - digital satisfies most people and Vinyl is great for collectors who want the physical item, artwork, etc. Vinyl was pressed locally, which was extremely price-competitive even compared to eastern-european pressing plants.
Full disclosure and shameless plug: http://www.jackwithoneeye.com/ and Vinyl link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001PQN7VM
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
The internet will end the reign of the majors. Indy music is selling better and better every year and fans are tired of the same old junk being thrown at them over the radio and MTV. As a musician/songwriter myself, I see this as a good thing.
ROTFL! You really don't know what you're talking about.
Knowledge is power; knowledge shared is power lost.
Dear Pete,
Thanks for finally killing the old music industry.
Sincerely, Everyone.
People have been talking for years about how online sales could revolutionize the music industry. Itunes got it partly right, but had to cut deals with the existing music giants to get off the ground and it had no mechanism where musicians could get in without an existing record deal. Working through Itunes AND Amazon (people who bought this ALSO bought...) and giving a fair shake to the artists on sales sounds like the magic combination needed to reduce the old model to irrelevancy. Best of luck.
I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
The other service they provide is financing. Although the cost of recording a professional-quality album has come down in recent years, it is still more than a lot of artists have in petty cash. They need the record deal to finance those costs, since the only bank that will provide business loans for something like this is the "Bank of Mom and Dad".