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Windows 7 Sets Direction of Low-Power CPU Market
Vigile writes "News is circulating about Microsoft setting hardware limits for the Windows 7 Starter Edition rather than sticking to a 3-application limit. With just a few simple specifications, Microsoft has set the tech world spinning — not only is Microsoft deciding that a netbook is now defined as having a 10.2-in. or smaller screen, but by setting a 15-watt limit to CPU thermal dissipation they may have inadvertently set the direction of CPU technology for years to come. If Microsoft sticks to that licensing spec, then AMD, Intel, VIA, and maybe even NVIDIA (who might be building an x86 CPU) will no doubt put a new focus on power efficiency in order to cash in on the lucrative netbook market."
I don't see a whole lot of netbooks selling with the starter edition in the developed markets.
Yeah.
not only is Microsoft deciding that a netbook is now defined as having a 10.2-in. or smaller screen
Does it also mean that a low-cost subnotebook that runs Windows 7 Starter Edition is not allowed to have a VGA output? My cousin has an Acer Aspire one with an 8.9" built-in screen, but I have a 32" Vizio monitor.
... OEMs will not offer Windows 7 options. If netbooks are mostly for email, web, etc., who needs a particular OS? All seem to do those basics well enough (often with the same software ported around to fill the market).
And how do they go about detecting how much power these CPU's use? Why can't I just go and install Starter Edition on my Pentium D?
I don't quite get the big deal here since they are just setting the bar as high as needed to make sure Windows kinda runs on the hardware. Microsoft must be the one to set the bar because if it was anyone else, that bar would probably be too low to have any fun or use running Windows.
15 watts for the CPU is huge compared to what some of the ARM chips are doing while also doing HD video.
If anything, these specs for Windows netbooks is just another way to segment the winbook market to make sure a much higher price can be obtained for notebooks. After all, Microsoft can not have the netbook market grow up and start eating into its profits and people getting the idea that the OS is way too much of the cost of the device.
So, it's really all about marketing and little else. yawn.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
from light blue all the way to dark blue....
Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
If the 10.2 inch limit refers to the largest diagonal of the viewing area, then screens with round corners might make a come back.
the article didn't explain how they were going to improve the BSOD
That's not all they wouldn't explain:
Would Microsoft charge PC makers less per copy for Home Premium than it charges to run the exact same Home Premium SKU on a full-fledged notebook or desktop system? Would Microsoft attempt to establish itself as the judge of what is a "netbook"? Microsoft officials had nothing more to say about my questions.
The problem has become that there is simply nothing left to improve in a typical OS for the vast majority of users. If you have a browser, an spreadsheet, and a wordprocessor, you cover 95% of your users' needs. So what can you do for sales? This seems to be the plan: (1) Increase general shininess and bling. (2) Reduce essential functionality relative to earlier distributions. (3) Price the OS on tiers based on restoring the essential functionality. You are seeing the self destruction of an antiquated business model, namely that OS sales should be profitable.
Here is a hint to all of the companies in the OS market: give your best distribution awayand use it as a client for services that google can't profitably provide for free.
That's the future.
Just callin' it like I see it.
Seriously /., you can't even buy starter edition in the US or most technologically-capable countries. It's for underdeveloped countries. It's been this way for years now, it was like this for Vista also.
Article after article about this is dumb, now you're just taking jabs at MS for the sake of taking jabs at them. We all realize the edition is stupid, you're spreading a lot of FUD about a version of the OS that 90% of the readers here won't even see in stores.
I don't care about screen size so much as resolution. I can always get stronger glasses.
If MS holds to such a spec, it will keep the CPU separate from the chipset and GPU. Dumb, and the best/cheapest notebooks will use Linux.
You can't program for an open system. Writing rules like this is programming, whether they think so or not. The world doesn't execute instructions with the fidelity of computers. It is also much harder to debug.
I long for the day when Microsoft's greed will not be able to set the direction of anything.
If netbooks are mostly for email, web, etc., who needs a particular OS?
You may need a particular operating system if "mostly" does not equal "entirely", or if the tasks that you intend to run on a low-cost subnotebook are highly "etc." You may need a particular operating system if your "web" site uses a particular plug-in that has no complete Free implementation, such as Silverlight or Flash.
> Here is a hint to all of the companies in the OS market: give your best distribution
> away and use it as a client for services that google can't profitably provide for free.
And use it to lock the customers in.
> That's the future.
Grim, isn't it?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
bite this! We are doing fine without going back to the land of being dictated to. Adapt the software to meet the hardware, not the other way around.
It would be a better world if the CPU manufacturers required Microsoft to meet certain standards.
Seriously /., you can't even buy starter edition in the US or most technologically-capable countries. It's for underdeveloped countries. It's been this way for years now, it was like this for Vista also.
Was, past tense. Between Windows Vista and Windows 7, Microsoft swapped the roles of Starter Edition and Home Basic. In Windows Vista, Starter Edition was for the third world and Home Basic was for entry-level hardware in the industrialized world. But in Windows 7, Home Basic is for the third world and Starter Edition is for low-cost subnotebook PCs.
So where is the DoJ.
The 800lb gorilla and the wild elephant are tearing up the china shop.
Seriously, this is using your ILLEGAL Monopoly to control other markets and that is ILLEGAL.
Will just to wait and see of our new set of congress-critters are neutered or have some brass one.
Flash has been on Linux for ages now.
On ARM, or only on x86?
Silverlight has Moonlight which is sorta comparable
Moonlight supports Silverlight 1, which by now is only good for showing "Please upgrade to Silverlight 2" messages, just as the Flash Player 7 on Wii Internet Channel is only good for showing "Please upgrade to Flash Player 9" messages. And a lot of sites use Silverlight with non-free video formats whose freely available decoders aren't ported to ARM even if they are ported to Linux.
most of the netbook still have options that use some flavor of linux as OS, so who cares if it runs Windows 7 or not? Personally I don't want my netbook running Windows 7 or even XP because it's not designed for it (consuming too much resource).
I'm a bit puzzled by the notion that this might mean CPU developers would put a new focus on power efficiency. The focus from CPU manufacturers in the netbook space already is on power efficiency. That is the whole point of Intel'a Atom processor line, for example.
In a minute there is time For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. -T.S. Eliot
That means my new 2.2 GHz netbook with 128 GB SSD and 10.25 inch screen that dissipates 16 watts is going to run that Linux stuff.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
When we see a Space Shuttle sitting on the launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are the solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at a factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs might have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site so they must be US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) or 4 feet, 8 1/2 inches.
That's utter bs. If you bother to check wikipedia, you'll find out that diameter of the boosters are 12.17 ft. That's not us standard gauge by any means. Plus, if you think about it, NASA doesn't have any issues shipping the main fuel tank assembly to florida.
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it
so they must be US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) or 4 feet, 8 1/2 inches.
Track gauge (spacing between the rails) != loading gauge (maximum dimensions of a car on the railway). While there is some relation between track gauge and loading gauge (you can't make the loading gauge too big or the train will be unstable and you can't really make it narrower than the track gauge) loading gauge can vary without track gauge changing. IIRC american and continental european loading gauges are quite a bit bigger than british loading gauge even though the track gauge is the same.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Product differentiation. If you want the premium netbook with the big screen and the low power chip, your choices are full-fat Vista that limps like a three legged dog, or Linux that flies. Good Jorb, Mr. Ballmer!
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Other than Windows itself, are they specifying what other malware needs to be installed too?
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
why would this be tagged "streisand effect?"
Actually, there's plenty to improve in a typical OS: making the OS more componentized, programmable, adding new layers of APIs for different functional domains, and otherwise supporting the developers that write code for that OS, so that they can be more productive and write more functional code in a fraction of time. For example, things like COM, WMI, DirectX, .NET, or the new WDF toolkit for driver development in Windows Vista. I don't see how you can separate any of this from the rest of the OS. The job of the OS is to bridge the gap between the developer and the hardware, and this is all part of it. And all these things have continued to evolve and will probably keep evolving for a very, very long time.
"Plus, if you think about it, NASA doesn't have any issues shipping the main fuel tank assembly to florida."
If I remember correctly, the external tanks go to KSC by barge from the coast of Louisiana. Not so easy to sail a barge from Utah...
I had no idea they intended to port Vista 7 to ARM.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Linux runs on just about anything, these days, and if it doesn't, NetBSD does.
Get an ipod that can run IPodLinux, plug in one of these, and a pair of these, and you'll be ready to dodge bullets. ;-)
With the above, they can sell as many of their crippled, gimped notebooks as they want; you can use that stuff and the hacked ipod to create your own system. If you don't mind the weight, there's still this old trick, too.
Microsoft can do whatever they want. All we need to do is route around them.
Stop being afraid of them; they have no power. We can do whatever we like, and there is nothing they can do about it...for the simple reason that there are so many more of us. Microsoft are only one company.
How many people are going to be limited by Microsoft's decisions? Obviously, the unintelligent and unimaginative. I don't even WANT a netbook - but if I did, and IF I wanted Windows, I would re-format, and install a pirated edition with no restrictions. MS has no right to decide which part of their operating system I am "permitted" to use, and which parts I am not "permitted".
Oh yeah, someone tell me how DISHONEST it is to pay MS 15 bucks for a castrated operating system, then reinstall the same system without limitations. I'll be quick to remind you how dishonest Microsoft is in all of it's dealings, including this underhanded attempt to cut competitors out of the netbook market. Most *nix distros will install full version, without restriction, provided you have minimum disk space and minimum memory to run a full fledged GUI.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
MS realizes that to continue to succeed it will have to charge a different OEM price for "netbooks" and "laptops" otherwise they will be eaten alive based on price.
Because of this, a standard must be set, otherwise you will have a hardware manufacturer attempting to pay the "netbook" price for windows in order to undercut everyone else even though the computer has a 2ghz dual core, etc.
From what admittedly little I've read, so-called netbooks have razor-thin profit margins and the only reason they're selling is because the full-size laptop market is getting closer to being saturated. For people who want an underpowered, smallish laptop for web browsing and email, what's wrong with a 12" PowerBook G4 from eBay? Full-size keyboard, 1024x768 screen, 1 to 1.5 GHz. $250-$300.
As per TFA, this is nothing new - they had specs for XP and Vista, too. It would be nice to see some genuine competition for MS in this emerging market - i.e. Apple.
Spekkio Master of War
It's a sad day when wikipedia is how you 'bother to check' your facts.
way to go there billy boy...
l,
OEM's would be able to preinstall this limited version (thereby bringing down the price) and allowing the consumer to decide if they want/need the upgrade or not.
Quack, quack.
At Microsoft, Tremblay joined the Strategic Software/Silicon Architectures team, nicknamed "SiArch".
Today's news that Microsoft will set a wattage limit on netbooks running the starter edition of Windows 7 clearly shows why Microsoft has an SiArch team and why Microsoft hires "processor" guys and gals. Only a team packed with "processor" experts can do the kinds of studies that are needed to determine what is a reasonable wattage to impose on netbooks.
Why must Microsoft spend several million dollars on a SiArch team to pick a simple wattage? Microsoft is facing severe competition from Linux at the low end.
If Microsoft picked a wattage that is too low, then the netbook manufacturers could not build such a system and would rebel -- right back into the arms of Linux. Microsoft absolutely needed to pick a realistic number.
Until April of 2008, Linux owned the majority of the netbook market. Then, Microsoft submitted its Windows XP to that market and quickly seized 90% of it. Microsoft wants to keep that market share. So, if Microsoft wants to impose hardware restrictions on netbooks, Microsoft will ensure that those hardware restrictions are reasonable.
or does it seem that Microsoft is using bad marketing decisions to get them out of the computer business faster than IBM did?
... a new focus on power efficiency in order to cash in on the lucrative netbook market.
I don't think that word means what the writer thinks it means. In what way is the netbook a "lucrative market"? The profit margins must be almost non-existent. It's a race to the bottom, and I think many companies will regret chasing this market.
... and then they built the supercollider.
.
If Microsoft is successful (through marketing "incentives") in strong-arming hardware OEMs to lower the hardware capabilities of future netbooks, that is nothing less than an enormous win for Microsoft.
I am nothing but amazed that the hardware OEMs do nothing but roll over and say to Microsoft, "please, Sir, may I have another."
an "Operating System."
Both of these words have existing, very clear definitions and Microsoft is trying to change them to make a profit. It's called fraud.
I can't draw up a contract offering to sell someone a "fully operational car" and then put a little asterisk next to those big letters and down at the bottom, in tiny print, put "P.S. my definition of a fully operational car does not include wheels, an engine, or a steering wheel."
Much less if I am the dominant, perhaps even MONOPOLY car company that has been selling cars in my country for decades, which people use continually, and whose existing cars are being crippled for their intended purpose due to being "end of life."
If I'm in THAT position and I send circulars to the nation advertising a "FULLY FUNCTIONAL CAR, GREAT NEW FEATURES, BE SURE TO UPGRADE, YOUR OLD ONE WON'T LONG BE SAFE ON CURRENT ROADS!*" and THEN put in tiny print at the bottom, "New version does not support wheels, engines, or steering wheels, for those you'll need to upgrade!" well... The FTC would be involved pretty quickly.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
I'd rather see HDMI output. Then it's digital, and not only would also be compatible with consumer electronics like HDTVs
I haven't seen a single TV that has HDMI in and no VGA in. But I've seen a lot of TVs with VGA in and no HDMI in, such as any SDTV with a scan converter connected to its S-Video or composite input. And then you have connectors like DVI-I and Apple's mini-DVI that carry both VGA-compatible and HDMI-compatible signals.
If Microsoft cripples their software for netbooks, they *should* be forced to disclose this on the side of the box. The companies who ship Linux-based netbooks should point out on the box that their software has no artificial limitations.
It is amusing to see Microsoft trying to come up with new and unethical ways to manipulate another market. Then again, "unethical" is Microsoft's middle name.
The Apple admen must be salivating over exploiting the Windows 3 app limit.
Microsoft must die. It's that simple.
And cloud computing could make that happen because it should make the client OS irrelevant. We don't have to do anything "to" Microsoft. Just build world-class productivity apps that use open standards and run in the cloud. This forces Microsoft to compete on a more level playing field as it can no longer leverage its OS hegemony because Firefox on Linux works exactly like Firefox on Windows XP/Vista/7.
Google Docs is one potential Microsoft killer. Unfortunately, Google Docs is _still_ in beta (after how many years? -- if we count Writely, and I think we should) and you'd better believe it's "beta" because its still feature poor (which is more an "alpha" characteristic) and buggy (I just lost a document I was working on last night). OK, Windows users will be used to that behvior, but that's not the point. Google, perhaps the most of all the major cloud computing vendors (e.g., Amazon, Yahoo!), has the best chance to finally put Microsoft in its place by making the OS irrelevant.
And, that's how you kill Microsoft.
So, what's the problem, Google? Why aren't you throwing everything you have at making Google Docs a world-class, cloud-based productivity application suite? Or, at least, making it a priority project (which, at present, it obviously is not)? As it currently stands, the Google Docs mini-suite is a good start, but its apps are not yet good enough to get hardcore users of Microsoft productivity apps to switch. Until that happens, Microsoft is going to continue to attempt to control the "cloud threat" using its Windows OS. When netbooks can access powerful applications in the non-Microsoft cloud, it won't matter (for a large portion of the netbook owners/buyers) what OS is running on their cloud client. And, that is Microsoft's worst nightmare.
In closing, I would be remiss to not point out that the cloud already is helping make Microsoft's OS-enforced "app limit" irrelevant. Firefox only counts as one OS application. But, Google Docs is actually three applications (writer, spreadsheet, presentation tool). So the "three app" limit is relatively easy to get around when you're working in the cloud.
When cloud-based apps get good enough and the other cost-reducing advantages (especially to business owners) of cloud computing are considered, there will be no rational reason why Microsoft doesn't become "just another cloud computing vendor."
One "Aw, Shit!" is worth 100 "Ata boys!"
The problem has become that there is simply nothing left to improve in a typical OS for the vast majority of users.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
How is this "typical" OS you describe going to be mass marketed to the typical user? The vast majority of computer sales will be to people who won't even know what an "OS" is. Sure, there will be a market for power users and developers who would benefit from the enhancements you describe, but that's a niche market at best.
Microsoft needs to die. Who's up for a staged protest in Redmond?
Sure,
Because having every single application be vulnerable to exactly the same problems makes the computing experience both more consistant and more secure.
Please god, stop the madness. Starter edition is an edition that they plan to sell for next to nothing to developing (read: third world) nations in order to provide the same kernel and ability as the rest of the business world (ideally to increase their participation in the market and get them out of the "developing nation" category by fostering growth of the IT sector and all the dependencies it places upon an economy.)
Starter Edition is not Netbook Edition. There is no Netbook Edition. I repeat: There Is No Netbook Edition of 7.
Here are the editions of Windows 7, from least capability to highest, and each successive entry is a superset of the previous one's capabilities:
Windows 7 Starter: OEM distribution to "developing markets" only. We're talking third world here. China? No. India? No. A lot of African nations apply. Sold for dirt cheap.
Windows 7 Home Basic: Retail distribution to "emerging markets." Like China, India, Taiwan to a lesser extent, basically not fully developed nations that are economically growing.
Windows 7 Home Premium: This is what your netbook will have if you buy it yourself.
Windows 7 Business: This is what your netbook will have if you bought it from the "Small Business" section of the online retailer.
Windows 7 Ultimate: This is medium sized businesses and developers will likely use. Basically a one-off type license of the following edition.
Windows 7 Enterprise: This is for volume license agreements only, and is identical to Ultimate.
If you're reading Slashdot, chances are, you won't be able to buy Starter edition anywhere. In fact, I'd like to see you get a price on it. From anyone.
There will be a version for "machines which only cost $250 so there's no way we can charge the regular price or they'll end up with moblin on them instead".
What limits will it have? Whatever they can get away with...
No sig today...
These are pretty much the standards Intel put out to define netbooks for the Atom. They haven't had complete luck getting people to comply either. It's kind of like defining which rules you have to break to make a product that stands out. Vista 7 rules will be the same way. They can't really restrict screen size on a software product for antitrust reasons.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Actually, there's plenty to improve in a typical OS: making the OS more componentized, programmable, adding new layers of APIs for different functional domains, and otherwise supporting the developers that write code for that OS, so that they can be more productive and write more functional code in a fraction of time. For example, things like COM, WMI, DirectX, .NET, or the new WDF toolkit for driver development in Windows Vista. I don't see how you can separate any of this from the rest of the OS.
You don't see how it can be separate? Like GTK, OpenGL... shall I go on? I hope you mean that you CAN see how it could be separated, but Microsoft WON'T separate it. They make too much money when people can't take the DirectX modules from Windows and hack them into OSX/Linux. Technically, or legally.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
If netbooks are mostly for email, web, etc., who needs a particular OS?
In each hardware generation, the geek reinvents the web appliance - only to see it crash and burn at WalMart.
He never questions his basic assumptions about the home user.
While Microsoft - which has thirty five years experience in this market - rakes in the chips once again.
The Win 7 netbook with a single core CPU, ION graphics, 1 GB RAM and a 160 HDD has better specs than a first-generation XP desktop.
Plug in a USB Flash ROM. Your USB mini-mouse. Shop the Good Old Games at gog.com. Knock yourself out.
There is nothing lucrative about a razor thin margin sub notebook where the most expensive component is the hobbled Windows dreck staining it's hard drive.
Fiat Homos et Pereat Theos
And that version will be Home Premium, which is the "lightest" SKU available in the developed world. You and I will be hard pressed to find or purchase Starter and Home Basic. The former is assured, the latter is all but certain, barring Microsoft changing their strategy to target Basic towards netbooks as well as emerging markets (China, India, primarily.)
OS is not for the users, it is for the developers. When was the last time your mom was pinning memory, loading a texture, or creating a security token? Applications are for the users. The job of the OS is to lure the application developers with lots of great APIs and cool new features to play with. Once the developers are there, the users will follow.
So, would you rather prefer to have 1000 homebrew versions of the .NET framework and DirectX, for that matter? Boy, that would be one big mess and hell of a bloat. Or better even, would you rather not have any of that, and instead let each developer reinvent the respective functionality in every application they write? What would possibly be the point of that? Actually, fewer versions of each and every library means that the best developers can spend more of a focused quality time finding bugs in it and improving it rather than spread themselves thin between the 1000 different alternatives..
This is proof that corporations that arise from your beloved "market" can be every bit as evil and draconian as the government.
And don't even give me that B.S. that monopolies wouldn't arise if there was less government intervention in markets, Stadard oil arising when there was NO government intervention in markets ring a bell? In short Ayn Rand fans time to find another paradigm that maps the real world.
A smart person questions BOTH concentrated public and private power which is why I hope OSS wins in the long run as it's inherently decentralized and avoids BOTH public and private monopolies on production that lead to debacles like this on private side and debacles like the "v-chip" on the public side.
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
No amount of self-inflicted sabotage can compensate for the irrational loss aversion that characterises most computer users. They just don't feel they can afford to be without Windows.
There is nothing irrational in choosing a platform that is compatible with everything you have - and everything you want - in proprietary software or free and open source.
The portable video game player runs one app.
The geek who rants on about - the soon to expire - "three app limit" will - when he catches his breath - argue that users in this market really only need three apps.
Both propositions can't be true.
You can't stop the FOSS port to Windows.
That implies that there is no way to build a distinctive identity for Linux in the home and SOHO markets.
WalMart has been struggling with this problem for years.
It doesn't help that the bad news has to be posted like a road hazard sign - big and bold, black on yellow:
YOU CANNOT RUN YOUR WINDOWS PROGRAMS ON THIS COMPUTER.
I was pointing out that writing good APIs and tools for developers is effectively part of building the OS, and there is much to be done in this regard. You are complaining that Microsoft won't build versions of its tools for Linux or that they won't port Linux tools over the bare bone NT kernel. One is orthogonal to the other. But in fact, I do agree with you that it would have been great to have all those tools ported both ways, except I don't have much faith that this will ever happen.
Yes that IS a nice theory.
Sadly it's failing badly in practice as evidenced by the continuing inability of MS to actually produce secure, bug free code.
I can easily control the quality of MY code, I have no control (or usually knowledge) whatsoever of the bugs in the MS supplied libs/dlls.
IMHO, the .net framework is not worth the time it took to learn it, directX is better but (of course) still has the MS method bias.
I personally think that they are much more about MS controlling your ability to easily support other platforms than being as good as they should (or could) be.
I find this to be an odd assumption, as I've used a netbook type computer for a while now and it was by FAR the easiest device to lose the M$ OS and apps. On my desktop and laptop I still game and run apps that sadly keep me coming back to M$, but the netbook is running Linux, full time, with no loss of functionality.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
What a pile of horse puckey. I have yet to get w7 to work on it's minimum requirements. Linux and bsd has been working on a multitude of low power devices for years now. Linux and bsd have set the standard and not Microsoft. I can run debian gnu/linux on my Cisco Linksys Nslu2 with much less than 15 watts. I dare W7 to do that. I still run debian linux on my old pentium 1 166 mhz laptop with only 96 megs of ram that uses only twenty watts. I have never been limited to only three applications. I dare MSwindows to run on a Gumstix. Maybe the author of the article should pay a visit to linuxdevices.com to get a clue of how many low power devices that run linux and bsd that MSwindows has or will never run on.
Except that few people in the developing world will really be interested in being limited like that. Its only a matter of time before they all run Enterprise. And yes, I live in Africa.
The reason I can't give you a price for "Starter" is there is absolutely no market for it here. Dirt cheap is meaningless compared to free. On top of that a lot will stick with malware target number 1 (XP) because it runs fairly well on low spec machines (think P2-P3).
Then there are the few that have gone or are going the linux route. Nope, no market at all here.
I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
When was the last time your mom was pinning memory, loading a texture, or creating a security token?
;)
When she was looking for another man to rescue her from being a bored housewife. Sad but true.
> For example, things like COM, WMI, DirectX, .NET, or
? the new WDF toolkit for driver development in Windows
> Vista. I don't see how you can separate any of this
> from the rest of the OS.
That's very easy to do.
After all, there are at least three operating systems (and I don't mean three iterations of one developer's OS) that don't use at all .net, DirectX, WMI, or WDF - all proprietary Microsoft products and completely irrelevant to other operating systems.
10 inch is already pushing it on netbooks to make them useful for what they're supposed to be, IMO. 12 is just too big.
If netbooks are supposed to be so small as to a pain to use, you're right.
Personally I couldn't give a toss if a company calls a computer a "netbook", a "home computer" or whatever. A claimed 12 of these quaint old units (I haven't bothered to measure) makes my Dell "Mini 12" just as legible as what it may replace, the decade-old Toshiba "Portégé 7200" that usually lives on my desk. (The Dell's CPU is faster and its hard drive's a lot bigger.) And perhaps the decent screen is what encouraged the designer to adopt a keyboard big enough for continuous, nine-finger touchtyping. It's easily light enough for carrying around, and slim and small enough to fit in any of my bags.
To me, the mystery is the relative appeal of the average "netbook". I suppose the smaller screen would consume less juice, but the reduced size makes it trivially easier to carry around and hugely more of a pain to work with.
Still, as MS calls the shots I expect that Dell will obediently discontinue the "Mini 12" and not replace it. Time to order an second one (also with Ubuntu, of course) for the missus.
The CPU specs look to me like a problem for Intel. Because the Atom's core has pretty low performance, the limit of one core under 2GHz means that it'd be easy to pass in performance. It might still win in power, but 15W is high enough for faster solutions than the Atom.
Great. So now MS gets to control what OEM's will sell in a market that they aren't even well suited to thrive in. It sucks cause I bet it will work. OEM's are going to want the cheap windows licenses for netbooks, so they will of course make netbooks that fit MS's definition of what a netbook is. Otherwise, no windows starter edition. That means that even if there could be amazing-new-cpu x that happens to have great-new-capability y is absolutely perfect for a new-generation netbook-like product, but it would have to run at 17watts and 1.3ghz, it will never receive any notice from netbook makers. OEM's will want NOTHING to do with it just because they can't offer windows on it, since regular non-starter edition windows 7 will run terrible on it. That means that another potential advance in technology won't occur. Why can't MS instead let OEM's choose which of their OS's they want to install on which hardware, and not have to worry about future developments in tech as much. Just dumb if you ask me. Even from a windows user point of view, this isn't an ideal situation, but for other OS's it's more grim still. The fact that these specs are out means a couple things. Mainly that MS has probably known it was going to design for these specs in the first place, and tuned OS features and performance SPECIFICALLY for this hardware definition, since they could bet this would become an industry standard once they did release the spec. For other OS's, this means that any os-feature-or-program x that they planned to include in the future once netbooks got a bit more powerful/better or would require slightly higher or even just different specs to run well won't be used on this platform. It essentially gives other OSes a late start, since now they have to rethink what they should develop/how they should develop it for this market in the first place to fit a particular definition of what the platform even is, since they know it will now get no better than that spec anytime soon. Yeah, some OEM could adopt a netbook that isn't windows7 starter compliant, but honestly, even with an amazing amount of effort integrating really impressive features by some other OS community, how successful could you bet on that netbook will being? Probably not very. OEM's know that, and they wouldn't gamble unless a large portion of their customer base told them they wanted something like it. The whole situation sickens me.
There's no doubt in anyone's mind that there's a lot of software written for the Windows API that businesses starting in developing nations would like to use. Or at least, it would be an extraordinary claim to say that there is no market.
History says you're wrong. History says, Microsoft put out an XP starter edition, they put out a Vista starter edition, and for whatever reason, they're continuing with a 7 starter edition.
And yes, it is a matter of time before they all run enterprise or switch to Linux. It is my sincere hope that Linux replaces all of my desktop computing needs, and does so so thoroughly that it replaces all of the desktop needs of any business I will ever have to deal with. That would be fantastic. Regrettably, Windows continues to "just work" and installing Ubuntu or other distros still involves significant trial and error and a bit of frustration, as I am an avid gamer as well.
I'd prefer they make standards like OpenGL, the STL, that sort of thing.
I think you may have missed my point - in retrospect perhaps I wasn't clear enough. They won't switch to a legal version of enterprise...
If you get a limited version of windows 7, just upgrade. It doesn't actually cost anything. There may be a demand for 7, but there is no market since no money ever changes hands. The only legit versions of windows are those that come on laptops. These only remain legit if they are full versions.
What is driving people to switch to linux here is not cost, but simply the fact that at the moment you can get away with using Linux without a antivirus which eats bandwidth for updates. Bandwidth is certainly not cheap here.
At the moment, Linux covers all my needs better than windows - I prefer the free PIC development software to the windows version from Microchip. But for a general user, I'm not convinced its quite there yet. Its very close though.
I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
Would the OEM's REALLY fall for this? Would not a single asian company smelling a market dare to break out? Asus did it before, what is to stop them doing it again?
Worse, Apple is bound to release a netbook sooner or later. They would be silly not to and they would not pull this kind of crap. Apple netbook, full OSX as they can charge a premium for that product.
So, I think MS might actually be shooting itself in the foot with this. It ain't the same market anymore. The OEM's not only have tasted freedom, there are more of them now. Who would have thought Asus of all companies would lead the netbook market for a while? That the netbooks would take of like this?
Do you really think netbook makers are going to LIMIT their current hardware to these specs and risk another company shipping linux or just a more expensive version of windows getting all the cash? Don't forget that Intel is pushing a linux for netbooks. Sure, acer made a joke of its version by having it extremely limited and yes, lots of people seem to expect windows when they buy linux, MS might well over-estimate how thight their control is over the market.
MS does this thing because it has a problem with its product and its greed. In theory, everyone could have the ultimate supreme deluxe version of Vista/W7 for say 30 dollars and MS would make billions, they want to make even more and have come up with ways to segment its product into artificially different versions. MS had to pay for development of the ultimate version and in fact has to pay for the development of the different versions as well as the cost of support, different advertising, stocking different versions etc etc. But their greed tells them enough will buy the supreme version to make up for it while still having a seemingly cheap windows on offer to keep linux out.
If they would just sell one cheap do it all version, they would kill linux in a second, safe everyone a major support headache and actually be liked for it. Bt that is not the MS way. Bleed the market for all its if worth, high and low.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I despise praying, the very thought of it makes me physically hurt inside, but every night before I go to bed I suffer through a prayer that MS will one day do these limitations, for they will sink the already sinking ship.
No and no.
FTFA
Windows 7 Starter Edition, unlike XP Starter Edition, will be for sale to users in both developing and developed nations.
Oh come off it. Those jokes are getting old.
I quite agree. The BSOD jokes are old, tired, dead horses that have already been rendered into Elmers, yet people still feel the need to continue beating them.
Funny thing is, I got a BSOD on Vista just a few days ago. Surprised the shit out of me. First time ever since I got this laptop with Vista preinstalled in Dec '07. I gave it a moment of thought and figured it was probably due to me sending it into my Ubuntu partition on an update reboot instead of letting it go back into Windows as it expected. I let it reboot back into Vista, and it seems to work just fine. Let it run the updater again, and now I'm happy in my Ubuntu partition. Don't let these remarks make you think I'm a Vista fanboy or MS defender. I still hate Vista, and use Ubuntu for 99% of the work I need to do on a computer. I'm just saying, MS has done a reasonably good job of making its OS handle weird shit a lot more gracefully than it used to.
And to bring this post back toward topic, the reason I started with Ubuntu in the first place was to replace my ancient Win98 install. It still works quite well (currently sitting at about 2 months uptime - had to shut the power down for a thunderstorm), and only rarely gives me BSOD or similar problems (once this year, so the BSOD jokes aren't even terribly accurate for this case). Only, that OS is so old that none of the new hardware I want to use with that PC is recognized by Win98. (Shocker! Who knew 10+ year old OS wouldn't be able to recognize that shiny new MP3 player I bought last week?) Such a waste to just retire a PC that is still in good working order, so I installed Ubuntu on it (dual-boot, natch) after I test drove it for a while on my laptop. Ubuntu runs a hell of a lot better than Win98 or XP ever did on that box, and even my wife thinks so, but she's not ready to upgrade her user experience to this century.
Now it would be very interesting to see a netbook capable of Win7 version come out that might work on that old box. Then I might be interested in actually purchasing a copy of Windows for the very first time in my life so that she would be able to do whatever on that computer in Windows, which she prefers, rather than Ubuntu, which I prefer. Somehow I doubt it, and eventually I'll have to clonify that ancient Win98 install on a new HDD (again) to keep her happy. It's too bad that change, even for the better, is so terrifying to some people.
Hmm... yet another late-night rambly post that someone might take offense to and mod Troll for no good reason. Oh well, one more beer and it's off to bed for me. Cheers.
1.Netcraft confirms:In Soviet Russia all your base welcomes a beowolf cluster of CowboyNeal overlords. 2.? 3.Profit!!1!
Isn't the point of Windows 7 Starter Edition for it to be 'Windows for Grandma'? Browser, E-mail, Word Processor? Do you think anyone who has had their hands in the guts of their machine buys Windows XP Home? Vista Home? No? Then what's the big deal? Windows 7 Starter Edition is for those Other People(TM).
I'm still on the fence regarding Windows 7 in general. I'm running the RC on my primary machine, (Previously running Windows XP x64) and so far, I'm still not out of the 'new install' disorientation, when you're still running into things you've forgotten to install, or settings that aren't the way you like them, so I can't really speak to how it compares yet, but I don't immediately dislike it.
Some things I've certainly noticed: There are a lot of features that make the OS feel 'smarter' than it used to. My GPU acceleration in Photoshop CS4 actually WORKS. And h264/AVC video actually seems to play A LOT better now.
The fact of the matter is, my biggest issue at this point is that I can't find any decent themes/visual styles. (I prefer a subdued UI) And I can't even change the color of the overall window. Kinda pisses me off that I can make the Aero title bar any color I want, but the menubar and stuff are still blue. Other than that, and a lack of decent screensavers (And the SS not starting for some reason), I don't have much to complain about.
I have had no driver problems, and a few long-standing issues I was having were resolved by Windows actually automatically finding newer chipset drivers than available on the site of my motherboard mfg. And my Canon EOS 350D is actually recognized by windows now without having to hack together a driver to get the pictures off of it.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
I just realised. I have no loss aversion. Wow a personal epiphany.
That rarely happens. But it's much more likely that abused people believe their abuser has changed (or will change) - when he or she hasn't and won't.
Hmm, did you ever see an actual train? It generally is not as wide as the train tracks it rides on. Not many people would fit in otherwise. For example, trains carry standard size shipping containers, which are 8 feet wide. Exterior width of a typical boxcar is 10 feet 8 inches. Since there has to be some space at both sides, 12 feet is not an unreasonable width for a single-lane train tunnel.
molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
It's so artificially crippled that the issues with Linux (i.e. lack of application compatibility) seems insignificant.
Flash on Windows is x86 only as well, and so is Windows itself
Windows Mobile based on Windows CE runs on ARM.
and so is Flash on any OS - so how is this relevant to choice of OS on a netbook. It is relevant only to choosing and ARM based vs x86 netbook.
There isn't a lot of advantage to the median end user[1] beyond the cost of a Windows license in offering Linux on an x86 product, but there is a battery life advantage in switching to ARM. But an OEM first has to choose against a 100% Windows product line, or possibly bring back the Handheld PC running Windows Mobile, before it can consider ARM.
I have never actually come across any site that uses Silverlight
Other people use such sites (like MLB and Netflix), and they will return an ARM netbook that can't run those sites.
If you have a real 'power user', they might want a standalone email program, word processor, spreadsheet, presentation, graphics. Again, all of this is available for free.
Realistically, what software can you sell today? I haven't purchased any software in years. The last software I purchased was Windows antivirus which was replaced with free antivirus and then replaced with nothing when I got rid of Windows.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
It's 2009. Our computers and displays are digital.
Yours might be, but not everyone's are. For some people, a CRT VGA monitor costs $0 because they already own it and it still works, but an LCD monitor costs $200. And a CRT SDTV costs $0 because they already own it and it still works, but an LCD HDTV costs $600. I haven't seen anything to turn HDMI or DVI-D into composite video, S-Video, component video, or analog RGB video for the legacy monitors still in homes and businesses. And I have a feeling this has something to do with HDCP.
Of course, you probably mean an external display connector in general.
That too.
so we can use the analogue signals designed for a CRT to drive a digital display.
But HDTV penetration still hasn't reached 50 percent yet. So more than half the large screens out there, those designed to be seen from more than 1.5 m away, are CRTs.
Yes, and as written in the article, Home Premium for Netbooks will have special pricing.
Then buyers can choose which OS they want, and Microsoft hopes and can reasonably expect that most will chose the free latest version of that old familiar - Windows.
After a while that the three application limit is begging to be broken, but Microsoft doesn't have to charge much for it - say $50. That fee will be collected directly, and even if this is relatively small, it is probably bigger than the OEM's are paying now.
Let's extend it - why not, if you are Microsoft, ship every computer with the free/crippled version, and take the OEM out of the equation entirely?
I wonder how long it's gonna take before OEMs get pushed over the edge by Microsoft and start to tell them to fuck off. Like many abusive relationships, there's a turning point where the victim says "no more". Of course there are plenty who will die at the hands of their partners because they are too scared to say no. I'm guessing it'd take action by a few of the big players to start the ball rolling which is not likely in the near future at least.
Who do Microsoft think they are, setting hardware limits? They're a fucking SOFTWARE company, they have NO say in the hardware OEMs choose to use. If an OEM puts out a low spec PC with Vista on it and it takes an hour to boot up, customers won't buy it and the OEM loses to their competition. I know the concept of competition is hard for Microsoft to understand in terms other than "it's a bug, we must crush it" but it actually exists on some sectors, are they not happy that THEY win from every purchase, since they won't allow OEMs to sell anything other than fucking Windows? When they make hardware they can set all the hardware limits they want on THEIR stuff.
I'd love to see OEMs start to take a stand against Microsoft, or yet another anti-trust investigation into Microsoft for shit like this. They are totally unrepentant in their actions and intentions. I fail to see how anyone can continue to defend them unless they are paid to.
Heh, reminds me of when I was in year 9 and thought I knew all there was to know about maths... I couldn't see what more there was to learn. Then I got to year 10 and met Calculus and realised how wrong I was... :P
That said, I like the direction they're taking with defining netbooks. Netbooks are not subnotebooks, they're different. If a desktop computer is an SUV and a smartphone is a hatchback, a netbook is a dune buggy. It's small and light and cheap, and offers most of the utility of a car while not attempting to just be a small car.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
It won't be marketed to users or developers? It'll be marketed to OEMs on the basis of price? We're talking largely about computers that cost a few hundred dollars. Shaving $10 USD off the OS price has a meaningful impact on the selling price or on someone's margins. (This will not be good for Microsoft BTW).
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
Thank you. Someone mod this message up.
How did this get on the front page of Slashdot?
I don't see that at all. Just looking at stuff that's been in the OS pipeline:
1) Database filesystems (like the systems on most mini computers) and a OS provided RDMS. Allowing for search, metadata, system services provided for apps.... Replace flat files all together.
2) Better security management for mobile systems.
3) Seamless backup and portability of data and applications to allow people have different computers for different needs easily (so one person might have 2 desktops a notebook and a cell phone that can all access common data).
4) Suites of integrated apps. Essentially what Apple does. But also for all sorts of other areas that are common like Quickbooks,
5) Full naturally speaking integration.
Don't let these remarks make you think I'm a Vista fanboy or MS defender. I still hate Vista, and use Ubuntu for 99% of the work I need to do on a computer.
It's funny that on Slashdot you need to reassure people that you hate Windows in order to say anything about MS that isn't direct criticism.
1) Task managers are getting popular
2) Information managers are picking up
3) All sorts of webform autocompletion systems would be useful
4) Automated backup and system to system data migration tools
5) Quickbooks continues to sell very well.
6) The game market continues to grow
There is still a lot of money in software
if there are 10 companies in some space, and one of those companies has 90% market share, and the other 9 companies get together and agree on a single way to do things to compete against the first company, this is not standards, this is 9 companies looking for a way to compete. The way the first company is doing it is the standard, and the "standard" devised by the other 9 is nothing more than sour grapes (who cares if you outsell all of us combined by an order of magnitude, your stuff is not "standard"). MS controls the majority of the market, even if it were only 51%, they are the majority of the market. Whatever they do is the de facto standard, like it or not.
Come again please? The margins in that market are so razor thin, that I wouldn't call it lucrative by any means. There was a huge run on netbooks and it might have been somewhat profitable for a while, but now? And it becomes worse as new players come in.
I would say it is less lucrative than the traditional notebook. But what do I know?
An interesting potential side effect may be to encourage users to run more web applications. My browser now contains my email, calendar, crm, virtual file server. Google docs and zoho are ready for prime time all the time but may not be far.
"ILIA"!
I was a bit confused after reading this article. I don't understand why this is a bad, or good thing for Microsoft to set or force this standard. I figured reading several Score 5 insightful posts would explain, but I am still left wondering.
The problem has become that there is simply nothing left to improve in a typical OS for the vast majority of users. If you have a browser, an spreadsheet, and a wordprocessor, you cover 95% of your users' needs.
The OS was complete when it could address 64k of RAM. Nobody will ever need more than that.
That's the future.
In the future there will be 4 computers.
1) Task managers are getting popular
2) Information managers are picking up
3) All sorts of webform autocompletion systems would be useful
4) Automated backup and system to system data migration tools
5) Quickbooks continues to sell very well.
People pay money for these things?
I use some of these tools but they are all free open source software.
6) The game market continues to grow
Since I'm not interested in games, I keep forgetting about them but I do suppose that this is a good software market. Aren't the game platforms (XBox, PS, Wiiii) better for games than PCs? I don't think low end netbooks are useful for games.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
The only beating I'm aware of around an MS product is usually related to an image or video file.
Apple's netbook / tablet PC will be out sometime in 2010 and, as usual, it will rewrite the rules and Microsoft will then change these silly specifications in an attempt to try and catch up to Apple. I've seen this movie before.
i wanna know if the java updater, google updater, and the itunes/quicktime updaters, and the acrobat speed launch are going to count because these are on almost every system I see, i can see this becoming really annoying, add google desktop and IM clients to the list and the three app limit will be hit on boot for many users
You appeared to have entirely missed the GP's point. OSs haven't fundamentally done anything new from a user perspective for a decade.
As was pointed out, most people want a word processor, a web browser and (if they don't use webmail) an email client, plus one or two other apps depending on their casual requirements. They fact that a product like MS Office has struggled to invent anything new for users to do since about the late 90s, or that the latest versions of any web browser will most likely function on XP well after it goes into double figures age-wise is indicative of how little the underlying OS matters to most people.
OS is not for the users, it is for the developers.
You've just described in a short sentence why Linux, despite being freely available for anyone, still languishes in a distant third place.
Gotta call BS. I think I know what you mean but you have to agree they capitulated early-on?
http://users.erols.com/whitaker/wordsos2.htm
WORDS - Version 1.97 for OS/2 (i386)
Ported to OS/2 by Fr. Mike Thompson (mbt@gator.net) The latest version, 1.97, was released on August 30, 2001.
And the FAQ actually says 286 or better... http://www.faqs.org/faqs/Team-OS2-FAQ/
4(a) - History of OS/2
In 1987, IBM and Microsoft released OS/2 version 1.0 as the successor to MS
DOS, the PC operating system shipped with the original IBM PC. OS/2 ran on a
286 or better processor, and required a minimum of 2MB of RAM.
Actually, there's plenty to improve in a typical OS: making the OS more componentized, programmable, adding new layers of APIs for different functional domains, and otherwise supporting the developers that write code for that OS, so that they can be more productive and write more functional code in a fraction of time.
I think your example fails supremely in representing your point. I think your point is valid. Add to your citations the constant need to upgrade the OS for new hardware paradigms (give! me NBTP - Nano Bot Transmission Protocol) and I think there's a lot of room for new ideas in OS.
Yet, here in Canada I look at the back of the local paper and see an Acer Aspire 5315 advertised ($399.99 cdn) with Vista Home Basic. The cheapest with Home Premium is $599.99 and other cheap laptops/netbooks have various versions of XP.
If they're selling Vista Home Basic here in Canada I'd think they'll sell Win 7 Home Basic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
No. I don't hate Windows. I just hate Vista. I tolerate Win98, but it's pretty snappy on the 4-year old box and still gets its job done reasonably well. Win2K and to a lesser extent WinXP are much superior versions than anything that came before. Vista is just crap, and Win7 looks like it will outdo Vista primarily by removing a lot of Vista's suck, and will probably finally feel like a real upgrade from Win2K and WinXP. Doesn't matter, in testdriving Ubuntu before loading it onto the box carrying that ancient Win98 install, I got to like it a lot more than any version of Windows I ever tried. Mind you, I don't give a crap about games, which seems to be a major complaint about any of the linux distros. For me, Ubuntu just works a shitload better than Vista possibly could, it's much easier to use, and has more polish on the desktop. As soon as WINE is improved enough to allow me to run Photoshop and iTunes (or those programs are ported to linux - I'm not holding my breath) I won't have to put up with Vista at all on this PC. Win7 will not only have to outperform Vista (which all reports indicate it will), but it will also have to outperform Ubuntu for me to start taking any interest in Windows again.
Of course, all this relates exclusively to my own experience and preferences. Others will have different, equally valid opinions. It all comes down to what you think will let you get the job done better for you by whatever measurements you choose to use. Having to tiptoe between different Windows/Mac/*nix/BSD/etc zealots is pretty damned annoying. None of them are the one OS to rule them all. All have strengths and weaknesses. Taking someone else's opinions on these things personally and getting pissy about it is just retarded.
1.Netcraft confirms:In Soviet Russia all your base welcomes a beowolf cluster of CowboyNeal overlords. 2.? 3.Profit!!1!
The diameter of the boosters is not the railroad gauge itself, but is tied to the loading gauge of the railroad tunnels in the Rocky Mountains, which is a function of the railroad gauge.
And NASA has no trouble shipping the external tank to Florida because they put it on a barge. There isn't a lot of barge traffic in Utah.
Parent is highly uninformative.
I wonder if this might eventually lead to circumvention by creation of "multipurpose" apps that use multiple threads performing completely disparate purposes, in a logical extension of that multiple-tabs exemption granted to browsers? Perhaps some enterprising coder will even figure out how to write a shell app that can spawn other normal apps to make them appear to the OS as threads rather than distinct apps, and thereby circumventing the three-app limit?
Your average user doesn't know what the hell you are talking about. The only improvements the average user wants to see are faster, simpler prettier.
Wow,
That's one twisted view of the world you have there.
It's also historically inaccurate, microsoft created competing standards well AFTER the creation of the "real" standards and has used it's market clout to train a generation of sysadmins and programmers that don't know any better, dare I say, like you.
I have a little story, with little to do with this but a great deal to do with marketing winning out over good tech.
I just replaced a server at one of my long term customers site, they are a small shop with 3 PC's that need the network to use a common database.
I had built them a Novell 4.11 server in 1998 and it has been running 24/7/365 since.
It has been rebooted probably all of 10 times, usually because of reaching the end of the UPS battery during a blackout. Once due to the new Polish cleaning lady not being able to read the Spanish sign for the old cleaning lady that said "don't touch".
Anyway, that USED to be called reliability. But now thanks to advertising to the CEO's that don't know any better and bringing up college kids to be ms brainwashed masses, you all ACCEPT servers that have to be rebooted all the time for stupid reasons. For a patch? no, you shouldn't have to reboot for a patch, you swap out the files & unload and reload the service, not reboot a SERVER.
Oh and the day I put the new server in, the old one had 893 days of uptime and it's still up waiting for me to migrate one other app to the new server, humming away happily.
10 years with no failures, no security holes, no every other week patches requiring reboots.
think about that everytime you have to reboot your windows server & disrupt your life or the users workday.
Interesting, I can't even get Home Basic in the states. I've never even seen it for sale.
The main reason is: MS-Office.
Let's face it: OO is sadly nowhere close yet to MS-Office.
MS-Office is the most used client productivity suite in the world, and until we have a credible open source alternative, most people will still want to run Windows on their machine.
"Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong." (Oscar Wilde)
Heck yeah. I just for example bought Omni Focus a few months ago. I've pretty much bought everything they make. I also buy information managers.
I'm not a gamer myself but I think PC games are still more complex than the the gaming system games. The gaming systems are very good for arcade style but $300 worth of excellent hardware still loses to $2000 worth of so/so hardware.
FYI here is the stores website, http://www.mikescomputershop.com/
Note at the top of the page both systems come with Home Basic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Seriously? Go to Best Buy. Retail copies of Vista Home Basic are on the shelf and computers preloaded with it are there as well.
Here comes Silverlight 3. Feel like sisyphus yet?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Au contraire, OpenOffice is at least as capable as MS Office
OpenOffice.org Base is currently not capable of running a commercial off-the-shelf order management package designed to run in Access and written in Visual Basic for Applications. Or has that changed in the latest version?
Crippleware is crippled.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcat17006&type=page&_requestid=110350
As you can see, of the 6 stores it finds within over 100 miles of me (Dubuque is almost exactly 100 miles away,) four of the six don't carry it.
Color me impressed, you're right that it is carried and sold in the US.
The number of Home Premium laptops outnumbers the Home Basic laptops 9 to 1, and again, I've never seen a Basic at my branch of Best Buy.
That said, Starter is still OEM only.