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How Much Money Do Free-To-Play MMOs Make?

simoniker writes "Over at Gamasutra, a new feature article discusses how much money free-to-play MMO games make, with specific real-world stats from game developers willing to discuss how they make money with microtransaction-based PC games. In particular, Puzzle Pirates co-creator Daniel James reveals that 'the average revenue per user (ARPU) is between one and two dollars a month, but only about 10% of his player base has ever paid him anything. As a result, he says, approximately 5,000 gamers are generating the $230,000 in revenue he sees each month.' It's obviously quite a different model from the regular $15/month for World Of Warcraft, but it evidently works for some companies."

157 comments

  1. Dear free MMO companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Stop making your games for Windows only and maybe you'll see more money.

    Hint: on campuses there's at least 50% Mac users.

    1. Re:Dear free MMO companies by f0dder · · Score: 1

      They're moving to consoles & other proprietary devices like the iPhone & iPod.

    2. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Bieeanda · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How many of those Mac users are too busy studying, socializing in person, or ransacking the couch for ramen money though?

    3. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Mprx · · Score: 5, Informative

      Puzzle Pirates is written in cross platform Java. Works on every major OS.

    4. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      None.
      We sit in Starbucks all over the nation, sipping our latte all day long, waiting for the master to return.

    5. Re:Dear free MMO companies by SleepingWaterBear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, dunno about studying or socializing, but if you can afford a mac, you're probably not ransacking couches for Ramen money.

    6. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 5, Funny

      "ransacking the couch for ramen money" That sounds really dirty to me for some reason.
      Is that what you kids are calling it these days? In my day was just called it sex, I guess I am just old.
      Get off my lawn.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    7. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Quirkz · · Score: 5, Informative

      Some of us are browser based. I play www.KingdomofLoathing.com all the time, and it's platform independent. I also run my own game at www.Twilightheroes.com.

      With just under 30k accounts, maybe 2,000 of them active in a given month, I'm not really quite "massive" yet but my own experience is that I pull in on average less than $0.50 per account per month, with some fair bit of fluctuation. I'd be jumping for joy at an average of $2/player.

    8. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hint: on campuses there's at least 50% Mac users.

      Biggest load of bull ever.

    9. Re:Dear free MMO companies by dingo8baby · · Score: 1

      if 50% of college students are mac users, then 50% of them don't care about playing games on their computers.

    10. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Itninja · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think a better statement would be 'at least 50% of the people who I see with computers use Macs'. That's because Macs are status symbols first, and computers second (not to say they are not great systems). If PC's were as sexy as Macs then folks would be proud to be seen using them too. And I would imagine those people would far out number the Mac users.

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    11. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Plaid+Phantom · · Score: 4, Funny

      No no: that Mac is *why* they're plundering the furniture. ;)

      --
      All comments are properties and trademarks of the voices in my head. Not like I'm gonna claim them.
    12. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Stauken · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yeah. Some campuses are probably closer to 90%. Alternatively, theres probably some campuses who have few students who can afford anything close to a mac.

    13. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      if 50% of college students are mac users, then 50% of them don't care about playing games on their computers.

      What? WoW works on the Mac, and the XBOX 360 is for everything else...

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    14. Re:Dear free MMO companies by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Hm.. perhaps the Windows version is free, but the Linux or MacOS versions could be built (and require an extra periodic fee to use)

      Without some manner of subsidizing the development, it's really hard to justfy porting your app to OSes that have a _combined_ market share of less than 10%

    15. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, you could "fund" developers who can tell their ass from a usb port and can write code that doesn't need any work to port.

    16. Re:Dear free MMO companies by hipifreq · · Score: 1

      Hint: on campuses there's at least 50% Mac users.

      [citation needed]

      I don't know what campus YOU'VE been on lately, but our local campus has FAR more Windoze boxes running around.

    17. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Omestes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Odd, I got a Mac in college when my PC crapped out thanks to some defective parts after $300 of upgrades. I decided I had enough of futzing with my computer, and fixing things, so I bought an iBook. With student discounts it was cheaper than most comparable Wintel laptops, and did pretty much the same stuff, and I got a free iPod with it. Sure, I couldn't game, but I had more important things to do.

      It actually served my purposes fine, and it was damn cheap. Hardly a status symbol. Hell, even if it was a status symbol it might have left my dorm room 4 times 3 years.

      Stop generalizing to justify your own selection of OS as being far superior to everyone elses. And stop deluding yourself into thinking you OS choice has anything to do with anything that actually matters. Its shallow, and obnoxious.

      And just so you don't call me a fan-boy (which is also vapid, I might add) I'm typing this on my Windows gaming rig, sitting next to my Ubuntu laptop, which is sitting next to a Mac Mini I'm fitting into a mini media center.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    18. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Dr.+Zim · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, as an openly gay mac user, I have to say I've gotten far more dick when I leave my computer at home.

      If you think your hardware choice will get you laid, I'm guessing you don't get much from either sex.

      --
      (name withheld by request)
    19. Re:Dear free MMO companies by westlake · · Score: 1

      Stop making your games for Windows only and maybe you'll see more money.

      I suspect that if you are in this business you have credible numbers for the OSX and Linux platforms.

      It would be helpful if OEM Linux shed its reputation as a bottom feeder.

      That you could point to mass-market sales of entry-level gaming systems at least as plausible as the mid-line HP Pavilion sold at WalMart.

    20. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you may be. At my college we were all required to get a Mac at the beginning of freshman year, it became part of my student aid package, and I was most certainly scraping change for ramen noodles.

      I'll leave to argument as to whether I should have been playing games on it while in school for another discussion :)

    21. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Hillman · · Score: 1

      You forgot: coding with ruby on rails

    22. Re:Dear free MMO companies by dingo8baby · · Score: 1

      hence the "on their computers".

    23. Re:Dear free MMO companies by beav007 · · Score: 1

      our local campus has FAR more Windoze boxes running around.

      Maybe this is why Windows keeps crashing...

    24. Re:Dear free MMO companies by indiechild · · Score: 1

      I don't think he was trying to be a smart ass at all. In fact, he's probably on to something. However much I want to deny it, Macs have become status symbols of a kind. Not blingy useless crap that hangs around your neck like a gold chan does, but status symbols all the same. Look at all the Mac product placement in movies and TV shows for example. Macs have entered the public consciousness.

      I think Macs have become status symbols in spite of themselves, which is rather surprising. After all, no-one (despite what the Mac haters claim) buys a computer just so they can look good. Computers have to work, first and foremost, and Macs do that very well. They combine form and function better than anybody else.

      I find it very amusing that people keep claiming Macs are so much more expensive. When I bought my first Mac, an iBook G3 in 2003, it was the best value notebook for my needs. It was actually cheap in comparison to most PC notebooks, which really surprised me. The Mac notebook line has always been good value.

      The haters like to promote this image of rich wankers using Macs, but I've never come across anybody who fits that stereotype. Most of the Mac users I know are middle class or even low-to-middle class.

    25. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Turor · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ahoy matey, Puzzle Pirates runs on Mac and Linux just fine.

      In fact I'm using Linux and logged in right now. Arr!

    26. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Repossessed · · Score: 1

      15k a month?

      I need to start one of these. Either that or this is where you tell me your operating cost is 16k a month.

      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    27. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 2, Informative

      You mean like Game!? I don't really see many Mac users, substantially more Linux users actually.

    28. Re:Dear free MMO companies by daath93 · · Score: 1

      You assume that mac cultists would dare defile their home with a Microsoft product. They are all playing Sims3 on their iPhone.

    29. Re:Dear free MMO companies by daath93 · · Score: 1

      Just out of curiosity...

      Did the free iPod cook toast?

    30. Re:Dear free MMO companies by daath93 · · Score: 1

      Poor wankers buy Macs too. I've seen them spare changing for their Starbucks latte with their Che Guevara t-shirts and ratty jeans (and sadly this is not a joke).

    31. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And they're willing to pay for shiny.

      No, hold it, that's not quite it. It's more that the average Mac user, at least to my observation, wants his stuff to do what he wants. He's quite willing to say "here's the money, now bend over and do what I want you to do!"

      Windows users are generally hoping things would work out, notice they don't, then putz around and reach for workarounds before ever even considering paying another dime.

      And Linux users are actually looking for and thriving on traps, pitfalls and shortcomings.

      So. All stereotypes done?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    32. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Omestes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When I bought my first Mac, an iBook G3 in 2003, it was the best value notebook for my needs. It was actually cheap in comparison to most PC notebooks, which really surprised me. The Mac notebook line has always been good value.

      Sadly this doesn't hold true on the higher end. MacBooks and iBooks were a decent value, and at least comparable to Windows laptops with the same specs, but PowerBooks and MacBook Pro's are generally way too expensive for what you get.

      My HP Pavilion Vista Laptop (now running Linux) was around $300 (maybe a little less) than my girlfriends MBP with the same hardware (less bundled RAM, Apple still thinks RAM is a rare commodity mined from the last rainforest on Venus in quantities over 1GB for some reason), and a smaller screen. This always confused me, how the entry level can be an good value, while the top-end is overpriced.

      Its not even "bling" value, since I rarely see a MBP in the hands of a young person.

      The same is true for iMacs, the low level is a good price for a computer/monitor, while the high level isn't.

      I think Macs have become status symbols in spite of themselves, which is rather surprising.

      Anecdotal, so take with a grain of salt, but I don't know anyone who bought a Mac for the status symbol aspect. ipods and iPhones, yes, but not the computers themselves. I might know the wrong crowd, or am too old to know many people who would do such a thing, though. Half the people in college bought them because that is what they grew up on (odd, I know), or because our school's computer shop only sold Macs, and the only retailer in my town (Flagstaff, AZ) was a OfficeMax (depot?), so you had to drive 150 miles to get any competition.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    33. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    34. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Ihmhi · · Score: 1, Funny

      What about this guy?

    35. Re:Dear free MMO companies by pklinken · · Score: 0, Troll

      That should be Dr. Rim, really..

    36. Re:Dear free MMO companies by davidphogan74 · · Score: 1

      I thought the Master was killed at the end of Fallout? Doesn't that mean he's destined to fail, like why you don't build an AI and name it Skynet?

    37. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Funny

      Kids these days. When I was in school, we ransacked the couch for ramen.

    38. Re:Dear free MMO companies by syousef · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually, as an openly gay mac user, I have to say...

      There's a special version of Mac based on your sexual orientation? Damn! I knew Apple's DRM was getting restrictive but this is ridiculous!

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    39. Re:Dear free MMO companies by MrMista_B · · Score: 1

      "Status symbol"? Hah! I take it you've not actually used one, then.

    40. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Veggiesama · · Score: 4, Funny

      You heard it here on Slashdot first, gentlemen. Gay men aren't attracted to your operating system.

      We already knew they weren't aroused by the size of your external hard drive, but the jury's still out on whether or not you should wear an anti-virus shield when having unprotected file-sharing with another anonymous gay man. Some call this controversial practice "bare-backuping," and it remains highly controversial in online gay communities.

    41. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Ambvai · · Score: 1

      Oh hey, nice to see you here. I play both as well.

    42. Re:Dear free MMO companies by xepel · · Score: 1

      ClanLord (www.clanlord.com) is a 'free' game for Macintosh. You pay ~$15 for the account, but there are no monthly charges past then (which is fairly new, it used to be pay by month). It's been around for 10 years (and looks it), but I love it, personally.

    43. Re:Dear free MMO companies by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually, as an openly gay mac user, I have to say I've gotten far more dick when I leave my computer at home.

      What about your iPhone?

      Shazam!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    44. Re:Dear free MMO companies by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I just discovered that you could play for free again. Yarrr! Now if I can play on windows mobile my head asplode.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    45. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      He's likely only getting revenue from active accounts, so it's $1k per month.

    46. Re:Dear free MMO companies by drtsystems · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I actually have noticed that a disproportionate amount of mac users bring their laptops places (library, class, coffee shop, etc) than PC users on campus, but I attributed it to a different reason. I've found Macs to be better suited to portability. Apple laptops are very portable compared to many WIndows laptops (the $500 massive PC laptop doesn't exist for Apple customers). Most Windows laptops I see around campus are massive and heavy. OS X also handles sleeping very gracefully. Maybe this has been improved with newer motherboards and/or Win XP service packs, but Windows always seemed to give me problems with not sleeping and crashing when waking up from sleep. Obviously this isn't always the case, there are plenty of portable PCs, but it seems the ones that college students buy aren't those.

    47. Re:Dear free MMO companies by emptycorp · · Score: 1

      Are you kidding? Every single mac user and fanboy I've ever talked to has said the same thing "anything we can't run, we can run in a virtual windows". When you tell them macs suck for video games they just say that same thing over and over again as if that makes mac superior to windows when they have to run things virtually to do things they normally can't totally defeating their point.

    48. Re:Dear free MMO companies by drtsystems · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Stop looking at the 10% overall market share of Macs and start looking at the percent of your targeted user base who are mac users. College kids are willing to forgo video games when they make the Mac-PC decision, but I know a lot of my friends spend time playing games (keep in mind in college anytime a college kid is "home" in their dorm, there sitting at their desk. Its pretty much your either at your desk or in the bed, there isn't much room for anything else. This leads to a large amount of time sitting in front of a computer. And any game for Mac has an advantage because of the lack of competitors. Most of my friends have macs, and I've heard multiple times something along the lines of "hey, that game is for macs? let me try it out".

    49. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He means Steve the White.

    50. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget writing in public.
      We do that a lot, too.

    51. Re:Dear free MMO companies by anarche · · Score: 1

      I thought the Master was killed at the end of Fallout? Doesn't that mean he's destined to fail, like why you don't build an AI and name it Skynet?

      SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT!

      Or name it Jon Eaton and elect it president?

      --
      Wait! Whats a sig?
    52. Re:Dear free MMO companies by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Proper sleep support is really important. For a while I owned a PowerBook and a ThinkPad (well, I still do, I just don't use them much now). To take my ThinkPad somewhere, I needed to shut it down, then when I got there reboot and reopen all of my applications in their last state. With the Mac, I shut the lid and opened it when I got there, with all of my applications in exactly the same state I left them. I theory I could do the same with my ThinkPad, but it only had an 80-90% chance of coming out of sleep mode correctly, and I didn't think even a 10% chance of data loss was acceptable every time I closed the lid. The battery on the PowerBook also lasted about twice as long. Guess which machine I took with me, and which I left at home...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    53. Re:Dear free MMO companies by JosKarith · · Score: 1

      Sure, all you need to do is replace the battery with a cheap knock-off and leave it running near some bread. Hey presto, 10% chance of having toast...

      --
      'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
    54. Re:Dear free MMO companies by polle404 · · Score: 3, Funny

      You read the article, AND researched the game?
      You ARE new here!

      --

      ~men are from earth. women are from earth. deal with it.~
    55. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Silentknyght · · Score: 2, Informative

      I use a thinkpad t61 for work, and used a t43 before that, and I have never, ever, ever had any problems with the suspend/resume functions with closing/opening the laptop lid. And I virtually ONLY use suspend/resume because otherwise I have to sit through the ridiculously long log-in script.

      I'd say I've reasonably done this at least twice over the last four years, or about 2,500 times, without ever (remembering) any problem like you discuss.

    56. Re:Dear free MMO companies by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Mine is an R31; much older model. Sleep is a bit more reliable in Windows, although sometimes on resuming from sleep the processor gets stuck in the lowest-power mode so the machine runs painfully slowly, and there was no safe-sleep mode, so you lost data if the battery went flat while in sleep mode (or you hibernated manually, but that took 30 second or more to sleep and wake). With other operating systems it was a lot less reliable, although apparently OpenBSD recently committed some fixes for the buggy ACPI implementation.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    57. Re:Dear free MMO companies by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      You had *couches*?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    58. Re:Dear free MMO companies by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 1

      That's true for some people but I got my Mac for its power, its ease of use, its UNIX base, and the fact that I can use it with my neuroimaging research. Most of the people here at college who have Macs got them not for their looks or status symbol, they got them because they wanted a computer that worked.

      I think more often than not, college students now get Macs because they are in fact sick of Windows. Further, for people in fields similar to mine, Macs have become the platform to do the work. Most or all of the programs that I use do not exist on Windows computers.

    59. Re:Dear free MMO companies by julesh · · Score: 1

      With just under 30k accounts, maybe 2,000 of them active in a given month, I'm not really quite "massive" yet but my own experience is that I pull in on average less than $0.50 per account per month, with some fair bit of fluctuation. I'd be jumping for joy at an average of $2/player.

      Means your game isn't sticky enough. You need to tweek it to get your players competing against each other more. :)

    60. Re:Dear free MMO companies by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      I think also people tend to notice it more often, because of the way your attention is drawn to it - e.g., someone saying "I'll just do this on my Mac", but no one says "I'll just do this on my Windows laptop". So even if that only happens 5% of the time, we have a tendancy to overestimate its occurance.

      Similarly with people who say "I'll just check this website on my Iphone", but no one else ever bothers to mention their model of phone, they just use the perfectly acceptable word that already exists: phone.

    61. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Scala is better. Rails can't scale.

    62. Re:Dear free MMO companies by nicolas.kassis · · Score: 1

      Blah, they'll buy the cheapest macbook cause it's apple and it's cheap enough and seriously most of them don't even need anything more then that. Could they get better for 1K? Yes, do they care? no. The free iPod was just too good to pass up.

    63. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Quirkz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, that's fifty cents per active account. People who don't log in or play generally don't donate.

      Server costs are about half of my income for two dedicated servers (one file server, one database server). Doesn't leave a lot of profit (especially if I want to do any advertising or hire out any services), so at this point it's still more of a minimum-wage hobby. On the other hand, that beats the hell out of hobbies that *cost* money and it's still fantastically fun, educational, and rewarding.

    64. Re:Dear free MMO companies by GeorgeS · · Score: 1

      I too am running a browser based MMO that is free to play.
      It has no advertising or other annoyances as it's not very popular(and I have no clue how to setup a banner ad in the code)
      If any of you old timers remember the BBS game TradeWars 2000 then you may want to check it out here http://www.frodoslair.net/blacknova/ I just did a reset on the game so get in now if possible.
      I plan to open another game server just for developers and testing soon too so email me if you'd like to get more info about when and where the new dev server will be running.

      --
      "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than have to have a frontal lobotomy."
    65. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.

    66. Re:Dear free MMO companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could you please clarify whether you are making 0.50 per ACTIVE account, or per account? IE: if I were to calculate based on your post, you make $15,000 per month? Do you mind sharing what your cost (servers, marketing, etc) is?

  2. 5,000 equal $230,000 a month by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Wow, when did $46 become a micro payment?

    1. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when you do 5$ nine times. approximately.

    2. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by PMBjornerud · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wow, when did $46 become a micro payment?

      From when you RTFA:

      Three Rings' MMO Puzzle Pirates takes in approximately $50 each month from each paying user (ARPPU) for a total of $230,000 a month, all resulting from microtransactions.

      --
      I lost my sig.
    3. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Maybe he used to work for Verizon?

    4. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by retchdog · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I suspect that the median monthly payment is much smaller, and that there's a "long tail" of people-who-would-be-called-irrational-by-economists, who see the game as a social venue and thus are chipping in a lot. I used to play Kingdom of Loathing, and some of the hard core users seemed to be spending upward of $100 a month on the game partly because they spent a lot of their social time in the game and meta-game (forums; auctions; clan dungeons; &c.). They seemed to be getting a whole lot more out of it than I was and I was very impressed at the tight-knit community. Anyway, I just chipped in $10 after my first ascension and shortly thereafter lost interest entirely.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    5. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by JeffAMcGee · · Score: 1

      Have you seen what has happened to the value of the US dollar over the past 10 years?

      --
      This sig cannot be proven true.
    6. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Sounds like those 5000 would be the 10% of players all the revenue actually came from.

      The total number of players (including the ones who don't pay), I suppose, would be. 5000 divided by (1 - 0.9), aka 50000 players.

      So if each of the 5000 payers generated $46/month in revenue, that would average $4.60 a month per player over all 50000 active players (inclusive of the ones that didn't actually generate revenue).

    7. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by mysidia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes... the ongoing decline is partially caused due to rampant USD farming.

      Once upon a time, the $$$ you earned were based on real work, and/or legitimate investment using your own cold hard cash.

      And then the $$farmers (botters) came... and didn't follow the rules... they exploited bugs, that allowed them to leverage obscene amounts of phoney $$$ they weren't supposed to have access to.

      They created an inherently deceptive market. Distorting the value of things such that it would be valued increasingly higher, at ridiculous price momentum.

      They got their cronies in place throughout the political arena, so $$farmers have better representation than the people.

      Instead of the past fair work/investment-based economy, huge profits came from breaking the game rules.

      They bring the world economy to the verge of collapse. And the real world is by no means out of the woods yet.

      The $$farmers continue to look for and try to get short-term fixes from their puppet government And matters continue to worsen

      In 48 months, $1000 may be a "micro" payment.

    8. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      I want to know when "free mmos" included micropayments.

    9. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Oh c'mon, bait-and-switch. You can play for free, but to get the "good stuff" and don't have the feeling you're just wasting your time (why that changes when you pay is beyond me, but ... ya know...), you have to shell out dough.

      It's not really that uncommon, ya know?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by shentino · · Score: 1

      Compared to the bottom line of any retail outlet, what you pay at the cash register is probably considered a micro payment.

      When you spend a billion dollars on R&D for the latest pharmaceutical, selling a billion pills for a few bucks each would be micro payment.

      For MMO's that earn a few million dollars a year, the subscription fees are probably considered micro payments, with payments for in-game perks probably also being micro or even nano payments.

    11. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by Majik+Sheff · · Score: 1

      I just read your post in stunned disbelief. Your analogy is remarkable in many MANY ways. Congratulations to you good sir, you just won the internet.

      Please mod parent up; if you don't understand, look up quants.

      --
      Women are like electronics: you don't know how damaged they are until you try to turn them on.
    12. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by phorm · · Score: 2, Informative

      Maybe I read this wrong, but I could see that as being several smaller payments throughout the month, totalling up to roughly $50 per user in a month.

      So if you paid around, say, $1.60/day you'd end up around that mark but each payment is in itself rather small.

    13. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      Yes, I know, but I've never called that "free".

    14. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by goodmanj · · Score: 1

      Having played Puzzle Pirates back when it was transitioning from subscription to micropayments, yes, the payments are individually small: 50 cents here, a buck there. But if you're a big pimp pirate, they add up.

      I also believe the median is a lot smaller than the average. Many pirates paying a little, a few paying truly ridiculous amounts of cash.

    15. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 1

      You mean those people who act like the U.S. government which apparently has nothing better to do other than spend money. :)

    16. Re:5,000 equal $230,000 a month by retchdog · · Score: 1

      Yeah or, you know, almost anyone.

      A real-life person who actually behaved consistently with economic theory, would be the biggest freak you could possibly imagine.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
  3. If you advertise it as free by Xaoswolf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    most people are going to play it like it's free, as in, not paying for anything. You'll still have a minority that will help to boost the sales by paying a whole lot more than they should for in game items. Likewise, I have never played a free MMO that didn't have someone running around the home city just shouting out advertisements.

    1. Re:If you advertise it as free by LandDolphin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have never played a ANY MMO that didn't have someone running around the home city just shouting out advertisements.

      Have not read the article, but it seems fro mthe summary that they know that most people are going ot play for free. But the free draws them in and then some pay for things and they make enough to stay in business.

      A good business model does not require making millions of profit. If a company makes enough to pay it's employees well with a little leftover capitol to grow then it is doing well.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    2. Re:If you advertise it as free by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      I have.

      Granted, that's partly because you're trapped in one area until level 50 (at which point you have to start paying), and that area is hard to get to after level 50. Generally, people who would just shout out advertisements aren't willing to spend $10 for the very short opportunity until they get jailed.

      But I would guess that is a problem -- if it's a pay game, there's a hurdle for griefers and spambots. If it's free, you have to play with CAPTCHAS and the like, just like any other free service.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    3. Re:If you advertise it as free by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      most people are going to play it like it's free, as in, not paying for anything.

      I don't know that that is the case. I've been involved in a handful of free-to-play, but pay-for-perks games, and most of the people I played with threw money at the game.
       
      Currently, the game is Requiem: Bloodymare, and most of the people I play with throw a fair bit of money at it. I wouldn't be surprised if the average wasn't near WOW's average. Why would we throw money its way? The game makes it easy and fun. There is no marketing pressure, but a fair bit of social pressure. At the same time, money spent = easier advancement or more fun stuff.
       
      All that I know don't treat it as free because they can play for free. They spend what they want to get the fun stuff. While my sample size isn't huge, it's a solid 10-15 people.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    4. Re:If you advertise it as free by anarche · · Score: 1

      I have never played a ANY MMO that didn't have someone running around the home city just shouting out advertisements.

      Fury. Sydney-developed MMO that lived a very short life due to chronic mismanagement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fury_(computer_game)
      I played it for most of those 10 months and don't remember hearing anyone running around yelling out adverts. Don't remember that many people running around...

      --
      Wait! Whats a sig?
    5. Re:If you advertise it as free by dword · · Score: 1

      I have never played a free MMO that didn't have someone running around the home city just shouting out advertisements.

      Hero Online doesn't have ads and you only pay if you want bonus stuff, like armors and such, which you can trade in-game anyway so there's no need for any real money to get that stuff and the game is playable even without it.

    6. Re:If you advertise it as free by skiman1979 · · Score: 1

      That's nothing. I used to play an MMO where several, or many, characters stand in each of the 5 towns shouting advertisements. Literally hundreds of bot characters clog up the 37 servers running all over the map killing mobs for gold that they sell on external websites to other players in the game. The company sells premium tickets so users can get priority access to log into "full" servers. You have to actually log in with a character in order to buy the premium ticket that allows you to log in with priority access... so new players don't have much luck. The company has a supposed "war on bots", but their GMs have been essentially extinct in the past 2 or 3 years. They used to publish lists of 30,000 banned bots every few weeks across all servers, but now we're lucky to see a few hundred or thousand banned every few months.

      But hey, it's a free game. :)

      --
      Having a smoking section in a public restaurant is like having a peeing section in a public swimming pool.
    7. Re:If you advertise it as free by shoemilk · · Score: 1

      try samuraioflegend.com you any advertising brings instant banishment

    8. Re:If you advertise it as free by julesh · · Score: 1

      most people are going to play it like it's free, as in, not paying for anything

      This tallies with my experiences of playing free MMOs... e.g., I've been playing Galaxy Online lately, where the vast majority never pay anything, but there's an a kind of inverse-long-tail effect going on where there are one or two players who spend absolutely obscene quantities of money. The mean per paying player may well be $50/month, but I bet you the median is more like $20. And while there may be thousands who spend only a couple of dollars a month, there's probably 10-20 who spend a couple of hundred dollars balancing them out.

  4. Re:bad math by SomeJoel · · Score: 2, Informative

    Maybe it's because the $1-$2 range is across ALL users, not just those that pay. Of ALL the users, only about 5000 pay anything, and what they pay is about $230,000. The only thing "bad math" about it is that the 5000 users probably represent slightly less than 5% of the userbase, not the 10% he mentioned. But that's hardly a big enough deal to get worked up over. Perhaps you just misread the summary and instead of re-reading it, posted about how bad the math was.

    --
    <Complete your profile by adding a signature!>
  5. Re:bad math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those 5,000 are the ones paying. Total user base would be 115,000 - 230,000 users.

  6. Re:bad math by dmadzak · · Score: 1

    My guess is that the average paying user, will pay 1-2 dollars a month, but there are the very small % of users that drop a ton of cash to make up for it.

    Maybe he is using the median average instead of the mean?

    --
    Spelling and grammar mistakes specifically left in to give the grammar and spelling nazis a meaning to their life.
  7. Re:bad math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those are the 5,000 users who actually pay. The rest don't.

  8. Re:bad math by Knave75 · · Score: 4, Informative

    if the average user gives an average of 1-2 dollars per month, how can 5000 users generate 230,000 dollars?

    I believe that the average per user is $1-2 per month.

    However, the average per paying user was something along the lines of $50. So the math would go something like:

    ($50/paying user)(5000 users) = $250,000

    or

    ($1.50/user)(160,000 users) = $240,000

  9. d-oh, stupid units by Knave75 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ($50/paying user)(5000 users) = $250,000

    Clearly it should read:

    ($50/paying user)(5000 paying users) = $250,000

  10. Wait What? How Bad is My Math... by greymond · · Score: 4, Informative

    "(ARPU) is between one and two dollars a month, but only about 10% of his player base has ever paid him anything. As a result, he says, approximately 5,000 gamers are generating the $230,000 in revenue"

    So 10% of the player base is paying him and that player base equals 5,000 people. So there are 50,000 people a month playing - nice.

    But wait a sec...ARPU is only $2 on the top end and 5,000 people pay this, so that's $10,000 a month - where is the other $220,000 coming from!!!!! Even if all 50k people were spending $2 a month that's be $100k - Where did I miss something?

    OH I GET IT NOW - From the actual article....
    "Indeed, James reveals that Three Rings' MMO Puzzle Pirates takes in approximately $50 each month from each paying user (ARPPU) for a total of $230,000 a month, all resulting from microtransactions."

    This is different than what the blurb mentioned - I guess it did get me to read, but only this time - you're tactics won't always work on me!

    1. Re:Wait What? How Bad is My Math... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      And if I add apples and oranges, I can eliminate the national debt as long as I remember to divide by zero!

      10% of the player base is paying him

      No, 10% of the player base has ever paid him. Some other % (presumably smaller) is the 5000 players paying monthly.

      ARPU is only $2 on the top end and 5,000 people pay this, so that's $10,000 a month

      No, the average is over all of the players, so thats (total players)*$2 a month.

    2. Re:Wait What? How Bad is My Math... by Endo13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I love summaries like this one. It's a great tool for figuring out who has poor reading comprehension and/or logic ability.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    3. Re:Wait What? How Bad is My Math... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Real bad.
      They get US$2 in average from total user base.
      but from all users, only 5K pay anything, these are called paying users.
      And from paying users, the average income = US$50.
      5K * 50 = 250K bucks
      Gee... English is not my first language but I can read better than you.

    4. Re:Wait What? How Bad is My Math... by daveime · · Score: 0, Troll

      If you divide by zero, surely the National Debt will go to infinity ?

      No wait, Barak already covered that, didn't he ?

    5. Re:Wait What? How Bad is My Math... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      This inability to comprehend cleverly worded math problems is how Vegas and wall street were built. The fact that so many people are confused about the math who are regular readers of slashdot, is down right disturbing. Or actually quite promising to the ethically challenged, but financially motivated. Can I interest you in investing into my split strike investment scheme? The fund is actually closed to investment due to its rock solid 15% return, but for the right clientele, I can make an exception. Many large educational and charitable endowments are reaping the rewards already and can attest to the quarterly investment statments I print out.

    6. Re:Wait What? How Bad is My Math... by julesh · · Score: 1

      No, 10% of the player base has ever paid him. Some other % (presumably smaller) is the 5000 players paying monthly.

      [...]

      No, the average is over all of the players, so thats (total players)*$2 a month.

      And total monthly = $230,000, so we can surmise total players = ~115,000. So the smaller % is actually about 4%.

    7. Re:Wait What? How Bad is My Math... by YourExperiment · · Score: 1

      As opposed to a properly written summary, which would be a great tool for dispensing information to readers of the site.

  11. Re:Fuzzy Math? Call in the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey Troll, please look at the comment right above yours.

  12. Comparing to WoW by bertoelcon · · Score: 1

    I think the reason those numbers work for a free MMO is there is most likely a small userbase and doesn't take mass network resources. But WoW on the other hand has some high costs associated with a larger game. In the end its still not the same overall numbers but it might nearly be the same net profit gain percentages.

    --
    Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
    1. Re:Comparing to WoW by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, then look at profit per player instead of profit overall. You'll notice that with more players using up more resources, you also end up with more players paying more money. Actually, certain cost (like support and core maintainance) start to decline on a per player base if your playerbase grows.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Comparing to WoW by julesh · · Score: 1

      I think the reason those numbers work for a free MMO is there is most likely a small userbase and doesn't take mass network resources. But WoW on the other hand has some high costs associated with a larger game. In the end its still not the same overall numbers but it might nearly be the same net profit gain percentages.

      Indeed. Smaller development costs (I don't know much about the game in the article but I think a typical free-to-play MMO has about 3-4 developers for a year or so), smaller running costs (probably only 2 or 3 servers, rather than the huge cluster the big names will need), smaller takings. If that kind of investment can turn $200K+ per month, it's a clear win.

  13. Re:bad math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    rtfa, ARPU = Average Revenue per user
    ARPPU = Average revenue per paying user.

  14. Re:bad math by Pollardito · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That 5000 is the percent that actually pays, the 1-2 dollar average is across all his users. There's still some bad math or heavy rounding in there since they say that 10% of the users pay, and so the average paid by paying users should not be 25-50 times the average paid by all users.

  15. I think 6 by geekoid · · Score: 5, Funny

    is it 6? I'm guessing 6, 6 right?

    "approximately 5,000 gamers are generating the $230,000 in revenue he sees each month."

    If you knew, why the hell did you ask me?

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  16. DDO - free to play by ludomancer · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Interesting that this was posted today without announcing that today was also the day that DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online, Turbine Entertainment) announced it was going free to play. Just a thought.

    1. Re:DDO - free to play by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's really not that interesting.

    2. Re:DDO - free to play by Lunzo · · Score: 1

      I'd say it was a co-incidence, as opposed to sneaky DDO (Dungeons & Dragons Online) marketing. There was no mention of DDO at all in TFA (I did read it for once. It felt wrong I tell you). In fact the article focused on smaller indy games which use this pricing model. Contrast that with the major effort that went into DDO which wanted to be a World of Warcraft killer but flopped.

    3. Re:DDO - free to play by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting that this was posted today without announcing that today was also the day that DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online, Turbine Entertainment) announced it was going free to play. Just a thought.

      Going free for now..but aren't they coming out with a new expansion. Is this their angle.

  17. Re:bad math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, however your spell it, I love buying Squishies from that guy.

  18. Re:bad math by reilwin · · Score: 1

    It's an error in the summary. The article states:

    Indeed, James reveals that Three Rings' MMO Puzzle Pirates takes in approximately $50 each month from each paying user (ARPPU) for a total of $230,000 a month, all resulting from microtransactions.

  19. Predictions by cybereal · · Score: 1

    I haven't read the article, but, to me it seems the takeaway here is pretty obvious: Your users are content and they are providing themselves. The question becomes "Are the users that never pay anything valuable enough to the users that may pay something to convince them to continue paying and participating at that paying level, or would those same paying users pay as much without the addition free users as human content?" And I think that's a tough question to ask which can only be answered through actual testing.

    The resulting possibilities are 1) You get no money because now hardly any players join the game world and thus it is not as fun and thus people who are willing to pay, aren't willing to pay for very long. or 2) The game is equally as fun with a smaller user base, the paying base actually grows because their friends hear it's fun and put up cash before they even try it, and you end up with more revenue even though you have a much smaller total playerbase.

    Big gambles because to me it seems like you have to try pay-to-play first before moving to free-to-play. And moving to a microtransaction model might alienate the small userbase you already accrued in the first situation. And switch it around? You'll lose all the free players who never would've paid and if they were required for paying players' enjoyment... yeah, I think I'll stay out of this market.

    --
    I read the script, and I think it would help my character's motivation if he was on fire. -Bender
    1. Re:Predictions by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Starting pay-to-play may be a huge mistake. Your starting player base will be much smaller. Not only that, but you get less free marketing.

      All those players of a free-to-play game are prospective customers, and they will attract other prospective customers ("friends") to the game on their own.

      As individuals they may not be worth much, but as a group, their presence contributes to the popularity of your game in their social circles, which can attract more players; more players = more payers.

      This is essentially free marketing.

      It would be when you have a _massive_, even excessive player base that you hesitantly start to think of reducing it to save on costs....

      If you don't want to leave players with a bad taste in your mouth, you create a NEW MMO, so you'll be maintaining 2 at the same time actually. That way there can be no complaint that you "changed" the rules of the existing MMO to be pay-to-play, which can scare off, even your paying customers.

      You make free access to the new MMO initially a perk of being a player who has "bought" things in the prior version, and give them special perks in the MMO.

      You let high-level/advanced players who've been playing for free for a long time "beta" test the new MMO, in exchange for free access to it. Make sure the new MMO is quite different and appealing to players as a shiny new game.

      Give your customers with a history of paying for things in game some "invites", so they can let friends in on the new MMO.

      Shut everyone else out of the new MMO, or just give them a limited 60-day trial and/or make the game extremely difficult or annoying to actually try to play without paying, with things like 'level caps', ordinary equipment in game that for-free players can't use.

      Fundamental game commands for-free players can't use, etc. You can cripple things severely enough that the rest will pay or leave.

  20. No thanks by yoshi_mon · · Score: 1

    I've not played a lot of the free/micro-payment MMOs but the ones I have fooled around with act the same way. That being if you want to have any real power in the game your forced to pay. And it's not that I'm saying that paying for an MMO service itself is bad. Rather that paying a flat rate subscription MMO is a better deal.

    As such I either want to a) play for free when online; such as when playing a FPS, RTS, or even back in the day with a RPG like NWN. (A philosophy I supported by writing/hosting Stick a Fork in Me.) Or b) pay a subscription that covers everything, save for legitimate-not one every 3 months-xpacks, such that I don't get sucked into some micropayment black hole.

    I think it's cool that the model exists and all the more power to those implementing it but I find it unlikely that it will be as good a model as subscription based MMOs. Too many ways that micro-payments can be 'shady' methinks.

    --

    Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
    1. Re:No thanks by julesh · · Score: 1

      I dunno, the micropayment based systems I've played you could get realistically powerful spending less than you would on a typical subscription game. E.g., I'm playing Galaxy Online these days, where I'm a corps leader of a mid-strata corps and get to have quite a bit of fun, and I'm spending roughly $5 a month on it. I don't see the issue, anless its the somewhat bait-and-switch aspect of how these games are marketed.

  21. Especially since micropayments seem to be more by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    If you read the article, it says the money is coming from people making micropayments adding up to $50/month each. Ummm, ouch, that's a shitload of money. For that you could buy a new, retail game each month. It is also way more than subscription MMOs. Pricing for those varies, but seems to cap out at $15/month for the big ones like WoW. Means for each month those people pay for this game, they could have a little over 3 months of WoW.

    I think that is precisely why some publishers are so in to the micropayment idea. They figure if the individual transactions are smaller, you'll end up spending a lot more money. I don't like that idea. I'm certainly willing to pay for games, I buy retail games and I pay for an MMO, but there's a limit to how much I'll spend. For $50 a month I'd better get a hell of a lot of entertainment, otherwise I'll be looking elsewhere.

    1. Re:Especially since micropayments seem to be more by yoshi_mon · · Score: 0, Troll

      If you read the article, it says the money is coming from people making micropayments adding up to $50/month each.

      Exactly. I actually did read some of TFA, don't tell anyone!, and was not shocked to see that number really. Those who are playing the game for free are being subsidized by those who are paying more than what the game is likely worth.

      Of course that last bit is so highly subjective that I'll qualify that by adding it's not my place to say what anyones entertainment should be worth. Rather just that as you pointed out, and the point I was making in my OP, the money that is spent via micro-payments can get out of hand with a quickness.

      --

      Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
  22. And now a word from our sponsor. by westlake · · Score: 1

    I am curious about the investment Disney and others are prepared to make in games like Pirates of Caribbean.

    Free to play.

    Period.

    I think the small-time developer should be asking this question.

    Disney has a lot of assets it can bring to the table.

    IP. Creative talent. Tech.

    It won't be generating headlines on Fox News when the addict passes $100/mo in "micropayments."

    This I think is a model for disaster.

    1. Re:And now a word from our sponsor. by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      I am curious about the investment Disney and others are prepared to make in games like Pirates of Caribbean.

      Free to play.

      Period.

      And probably every penny of running the game is written off as an advertising expense. Since the 'cost of doing business' comes right off the top, it's not taxed. Add to this some Hollywood accounting and you have the potential to create a profit center from something that looks like a loss from the outside, if you don't look close...

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    2. Re:And now a word from our sponsor. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Free? As in ... you don't pay?

      That doesn't sound very Disney, where's the catch?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:And now a word from our sponsor. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It's only available from the Apple app store and you need an iPhone 3GS to play?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  23. How much? Pretty much a loss... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... per player. But they make it up in volume!!!!

  24. Does Guild Wars count as free-to-play? by tdelaney · · Score: 2, Informative

    Guild Wars is pay to purchase, but from then on it's free to play. Its graphics are astounding (better than WoW IMO - much less cartoony) and it supports huge numbers of players. It's got a huge amount of content - after 2 years of solid playing there's still lots that I haven't done yet.

    I've got 3 accounts (mine, brother, mule - used to be 4, but I gave one to my nephew). The interesting thing with GW is that there is no significant advantage to buying additional stuff beyond the 3 campaigns (each standalone) and one expansion (which can be used with any of the campaigns). There are lots of things you can buy (extra character slots, extra account-wide storage, skill unlock packs, etc) but nothing that gives a significant advantage in the game - e.g. everything in the skill unlock packs can be unlocked by playing the PvE game, or doing well in PvP and using the points you get to unlock things.

    Over the past 2 years we've gradually bought all the campaigns and expansions (most at sales, some full price) - all up, we've spent approx US$500 on the 4 accounts. ArenaNet has continually added new content and updates - enough that last night I finally bought the other 2 campaigns for my mule account.

    GW has been more than worth the money I've paid - and maybe some day I'll buy some more character slots, etc.

  25. Re:bad math by daveime · · Score: 1

    APU = Thank You, Come Again

  26. Any mention of micropayments in Sims 3? by MattSausage · · Score: 0

    Of course I understand this is article is about MMOs, but I was surprised/not surprised about the Sims 3 making their new items all micropayment based using 'Simsbucks' or something like that (1 cent = 1 simbuck) most items are a dollar or less. And the only things that are free are people's recolorings of existing items and the little people and the lots they make. What with the Sims being the biggest game ever or something I would be interested to see exactly what sort of money they make from that?

  27. Business is about to get better by petrus4 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was looking at Warcraftrealms.com overnight; WoW's population is about to drop like a rock. It's already begun, in fact.

    Character classes have been nerfed into the ground, with the Paladin or DK now being the only two worth playing. Any originality is gone. WotLK had the worst instances the game has ever had, and the only thing the developers now focus on is the Arena.

    I can see it in my own behaviour; I'd be lucky to log into WoW once a week, now, and even just this last night, while I got up planning on playing WoW, it never happened, even though I spent practically the entire night idling on IRC, bored.

    When I'd rather spend a night vegetating on Freenode than playing World of Warcraft, (which I used to genuinely love, incidentally) I know that the game has truly died in the ass...and it has.

    I'm starting to think Guild Wars might be worth a look. WoW sure isn't getting much of my time these days, that's for sure.

    1. Re:Business is about to get better by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, maybe warrior isn't man-bitch for casters anymore. That's why I quit. My favorite class was basically a dartboard for any class with a range attack and that's even if you stack up points in Protection.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    2. Re:Business is about to get better by Renraku · · Score: 1

      The problem is that there's little reason to log on.

      The arena, even if you do poorly, will give you equipment that's 90% as strong as the best equipment. In only a few weeks. Without having to 'roll' on it and compete with people who can't even use the equipment in question.

      I love PvP, but PvP will not float WoW alone.

      --
      Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
    3. Re:Business is about to get better by Kenja · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is claimed at least once a week, but has yet to be true. Fact is, there's nothing on the market that can compete with WoW.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    4. Re:Business is about to get better by petrus4 · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is claimed at least once a week, but has yet to be true. Fact is, there's nothing on the market that can compete with WoW.

      I fairly regularly see trolls making this statement as well, but then never offering anything more specific to back it up. Allow me to offer you a clue.

      a) The levelling game is dead. D-E-A-D. Blizzard reduced the xp requirement between 20-60 by 20%. Then you've got Recruit-A-Friend, and the +10% xp heirloom bonus on top of that. They're killing the ability of new users to really acclimatise, learn the game, or experience what was genuinely good content, all for the sake of letting the established crowd race to the cap.

      b) Once a person powerlevels their way to the cap in two days, they will very swiftly discover that there is less than no point to being there. Heroics? Boring. Naxx? Boring. Sarth? Boring. Ulduar might be marginally less boring, but I doubt it. WoTLK has the worst instances, as stated previously, that this game has ever seen. They are a total sleepwalk; no strategy required at all. Just get DKs and AoE lol.

      c) The battlegrounds, which used to be my main reason for playing the game, are also dead. Blizzard killed twinking a couple of patches back, which caused a lot of people to leave, and the Death Knight and Paladin are also, as stated, now the only two classes in the game that are worth playing. Everything else has been nerfed into the ground.

      d) Chilton had to kill world PvP too, because if that had remained viable at all, people might not have wanted to play the Arena...so now that is dead, also.

      That leaves the Arena, which is literally the only thing left to do in the game at this point; and I don't know about you, but if I'm going to bother playing an FPS at all, I'm going to play a real one, not a half-assed joke.

    5. Re:Business is about to get better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, i sorta saw where bliz was taking WOW a long time ago and left far in advance of it. I left the game at lvl 60. Came back a few months later, and left again at 68. I will never see lvl 70, or 80 now. The "end-game" that i would experience seemed so pointless to attain. I was right. It would have been wasted time. Im glad i instead used all that time saved to watch pr0n.

    6. Re:Business is about to get better by Archimonde · · Score: 1

      a) The levelling game is dead. D-E-A-D. Blizzard reduced the xp requirement between 20-60 by 20%. Then you've got Recruit-A-Friend, and the +10% xp heirloom bonus on top of that. They're killing the ability of new users to really acclimatise, learn the game, or experience what was genuinely good content, all for the sake of letting the established crowd race to the cap.

      I agree with all your other points but I don't really agree with this.

      There is still *a lot* of leveling to do. Not everyone has a recruit-a-friend ability, and even if you level your alt there is some serious leveling from 1-60-70-80. Even from 60-80 there is tons of leveling to do actually. And I'm not so sure about that "learning the game and experiencing genuinely good content". Many people, including me, didn't learn much from 1-60. All you learn is something like 1-2222-3-222-f key combos to kill a mob and move on. Only on end level you can actually learn how to deal with multiple mobs, other players, guilds, pvp, raids etc. Leveling is pretty much completely devoid of any content. It is just run to x, kill y, loot, move on. And that is extremely, extremely boring.

      Finally, truth be told, there isn't much of genuinely good content when you level too. Sure, you have 3 million mobs standing in your way but they all react in the completely same way and there are not many models of them anyway. They just rehash them all the time. At least to 60 and dare I say 70, there is no coherent story anyway (alliance's the missing diplomat and onyxia chain were a notable exception), you are just sent around to kill, kill and kill some more. But if you think about the design of zones, yes, some of them are nice, but you won't miss anything if you magically skip them all and then return to explore them when you are much higher level. The only thing you'll lose is the problem of the whole zone aggroing on you, which isn't such a bad thing to miss. Instances at 60 were generally weak and even if you level properly you won't find a group to do them anyway. I can understand that people might miss "good old days" when to get to 60 you had to level for like couple of hours a day for a month, but it is my belief that large majority of people just don't like it. So I can understand that blizzard want to address the problem (even though their solutions are usually more worse than the problems).

      --
      Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
    7. Re:Business is about to get better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      b) Once a person powerlevels their way to the cap in two days, they will very swiftly discover that there is less than no point to being there. Heroics? Boring. Naxx? Boring. Sarth? Boring. Ulduar might be marginally less boring, but I doubt it. WoTLK has the worst instances, as stated previously, that this game has ever seen. They are a total sleepwalk; no strategy required at all. Just get DKs and AoE lol.

      I'd just like to point out that Naxx is actually pre-TBC content that was recycled for WotLK since the flavour fit and very few people got to see the original instance. Obviously, it would have been better to see new content, but comparing Naxx to Ulduar is patently unfair.

      Sarth is a very interesting case of end game content, because it was Blizzard's first attempt at allowing players to scale the content to their level through "hard modes". Depending on the number of drakes you leave alive, this fight becomes very difficult, and very fun. Sarth+0 is a joke. Sarth+3 was the best encounter in the game prior to Ulduar.

      Ulduar is also by far the most engaging content released by Blizzard ever. With hard modes on 11 of the 14 bosses, there is a lot of genuinely interesting replayability for top guilds while still keeping content available to casual raiders.

      WoW definitely leaves much to be desired in terms of PvP content, but saying WoW end game PvE is dead is just patently false. Blizzard has set a new standard for quality of content with Ulduar which other companies are going to need to match.

      imho, "easy modes" for progression content has permanently changed the PvE MMORPG landscape. Casual players expect to be able to see end game content, without it being trivial for the elite.

    8. Re:Business is about to get better by Stickerboy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wow. This pile of sour grapes gets modded informative?

      >>Fact is, there's nothing on the market that can compete with WoW.

      >I fairly regularly see trolls making this statement as well, but then never offering anything more specific to back it up.

      You mean, other than the tens of millions of World of Warcraft customers. Because it would be a shame if, while proclaiming yet another time that WoW is dying (Netcraft apparently confirms), you would miss the blatantly obvious fact that WoW continues to thrive in terms of both profits and player mindshare.

      >a) The levelling game is dead. D-E-A-D. Blizzard reduced the xp requirement between 20-60 by 20%. Then you've got Recruit-A-Friend, and the +10% xp heirloom bonus on top of that. They're killing the ability of new users to really acclimatise, learn the game, or experience what was genuinely good content, all for the sake of letting the established crowd race to the cap.

      Wha...? You want the leveling to be slower? What the fuck are you thinking? Do you honestly believe grinding out quests solo as a lowbie in any way relates to becoming a successful PvE raider or PvPer? The storylines are generally good, but staying in lowbie zones for extended periods for the content ought to be a player choice, not a shackle to make new players pay their dues.

      >b) Once a person powerlevels their way to the cap in two days, they will very swiftly discover that there is less than no point to being there. Heroics? Boring. Naxx? Boring. Sarth? Boring. Ulduar might be marginally less boring, but I doubt it. WoTLK has the worst instances, as stated previously, that this game has ever seen. They are a total sleepwalk; no strategy required at all. Just get DKs and AoE lol.

      Heh. Two days from 1 to 80? Maybe if you give your password^W^W^W buy a Chinese powerleveling service who will grind 5 mans for you nonstop for 48 hours. I'm sorry the PvE content bores you so; the sheer number of random people who are still failing heroics, much less the raid content tells me that it isn't boring for a large number of players. Blizzard has stratified the instances more, not made everything universally easier.

      The instances that rate as easy are easier - you can throw a PuG together and faceroll those regardless of who you play with - but that started in BC, too. M-T/SP/Ramps/BF regular or heroic were noob heaven. In other words, Blizzard wanted introductory content that even the least skilled players (read: extreme casuals) can enjoy. The harder instances have actually become harder than in BC. Even in 5-mans, it is extremely difficult to put together a successful PuG for heroic Oculus or HoS without screening extensively for gear/guilds/achievements, and the chances are that without long-term PvE connections or a successful guild to rely on, it won't get done. Factor in hard mode achievements and rewards (starting with Glory of the Hero and going all the way into hard mode Ulduar 25) and the other end of the PvE difficulty spectrum reaches as high as it's ever been in WoW, from AQ40 to Sunwell. The difference is that Blizzard has made all of this optional, instead of a required part of raid progression. And that's got the panties of some elitists in a bind, because it just isn't fair that you no longer have to be an obsessive-compulsive social malcontent working with 39 or 24 others just like you to get to the "end".

      Want proof? How many people on your server are walking around with the Twilight Vanquisher title? Or the Immortal title? Probably about the same number of players who were kitted out in Tier 3 or Sunwell gear - hell, they probably are the same hardcore PvE players in many cases.

      It's true that DKs have a shallower learning curve than a lot of other classes. But while it's easier to faceroll a DK to a decent level of performance as a DPS or tank, it seems to be just as hard to excel in it as any other class, judging from the low signal:nois

      --
      Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
    9. Re:Business is about to get better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a true WoW addict.

  28. No data from the big players by PsyQ · · Score: 1

    The article lists only Three Rings and hints at what some other operators make, but it completely skipped the big names in the industry. Frogster and Runewaker (Runes of Magic), Aeria Games (Luminary, Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine and a dozen other MMOs), Nexon (Mabinogi), Ankama (Dofus) and all the others. Where's Barunson, NCSoft (the Korean version) and gPotato? These companies usually localize multiple games from Asia (or France in the case of Ankama) and then launch them as free-to-plays in Europe and the USA. Aeria reported several million players on a bunch of their games, and Frogster reports over a million RoM players in Europe.

    If the figures Three Rings gives can be applied to these games as well and 10% of the players pay, there could be several hundred thousand a year in each game. And that's just for operating and translating. In their home countries, these games likely do even better since Asia doesn't like subscription-based MMOs.

    Also, there's been discussions about F2P and subscription pricing and the cultural differences between MMO markets these last few months in the MMO blogs. Read Tesh, Wolfshead and Chris F.

    It's nice to see real numbers in an article, but it would have been more interesting to get numbers from the heavyweights.

  29. DDO going Free to Play by BlueBadger · · Score: 2, Informative

    this topic seems appropriate as it was just recently announced that my favorite MMO, Dungeons and Dragons Online, was moving towards a Free 2 Play Hybrid model. The way it'll work is that existing subs at the standard MMO rate of 15/month or so will be converted into VIPs who will have access to all content as well as 500 points / month. Once the game is relaunched this summer, people will be able to play entirely for free, play for free but pay to unlock certain pieces of content or customization options or pay to be a VIP and have the 500 points/month to spend on convenience and customization options. This system is a generally well planned but highly complex system aimed at providing the most options and attracting the most players in a financially responsible way. More information about the specifics of the announcement can be found at the website for the game at http://www.ddo.com/

    --
    BlueBadger
  30. Maple Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    maple story's developer, Nexon makes a lot through selling in-game NX Cash...

  31. sounds about right by Tom · · Score: 2, Informative

    Interestingly, I can confirm those percentages. I run a free online game (see footer) where you can donate, if you want to. Whenever I checked, it was around 10% (+/- 2% maybe) of the long-term player base that had donated anything, ever. "long-term" here means that I don't count the accounts that go inactive within a few weeks, those people obviously just took a look and decided the game's not for them.

    At the same time, those people who do give anything are often very generous. Again, confirmation there.

    Does this work as a business model? Not for me (too few players) but then again I've never tried to make a living off what I consider a hobby. Very nice to know, however, that it can work. The problem is, of course, long-term viability. If your income depends crucially on a fairly small number of customers, you're always at risk of them moving elsewhere. Online gamers have a bit of a herd mentality, they often take their friends with them when they move somewhere else.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  32. The trick might be the number of users by readthemall · · Score: 1
    The more users you have, the higher the chance that some of them will want to spare a few dollars to make the game more funny them.

    I was surprised that the article didn't mention the largest 'free-to-pay' game, Maple Story. It is played by more than 50 million players all over the world. And the developers get hundreds of millions every year, yes, from micro transactions.

  33. Rappelz by trust_jmh · · Score: 1
    Even if your one of the free players you see some players are paying $$ thousands into the cash shop.

    Best of all the cash shop items are tradeable for in game items, so free players may not entirely loose out, (but at the cost of farming more.) Latest addition is an alter donation system that may take money out of the games economy by giving rewards to the rich, seems better than the lottery most F2P games have.

    The free game give the violence and sex. The cash shop adds the gambling (can you get the rare pet) and drugs (Stamina Savers - double experience.)

    Doubt the revenues will be made public though.