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First Acoustic Black Hole Created

KentuckyFC writes "One of the many curious properties of Bose Einstein Condensates (BECs) is that the flow of sound through them is governed by the same equations that describe how light is bent by a gravitational field. Now, a group of Israeli physicists have exploited this idea to create an acoustic black hole in a BEC. The team created a supersonic flow of atoms within the BEC, a flow that prevents any phonon caught in it from making headway. The region where the flow changes from subsonic to supersonic is an event horizon, because any phonon unlucky enough to stray into the supersonic region can never escape. The real prize is not the acoustic black hole itself but what it makes possible: the first observation of Hawking radiation. Quantum mechanics predicts that pairs of phonons with opposite momentum ought to be constantly springing in and out of existence in a BEC. Were one of the pair to stray across the event horizon into the supersonic region, it could never escape. However, the other would be free to go on its way. This stream of phononic radiation away from an acoustic black hole would be the first observation of Hawking radiation. The team hasn't gotten that far yet, but it can't be long now before either they or their numerous competitors make this leap."

41 of 165 comments (clear)

  1. And the news is where? by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Funny

    I got a shot Bose amp here, and any sound you put in turns into silence. Voila, accustic black hole.

    I'd sell this baby for cheap, too!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:And the news is where? by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm giving my Bosewave radio new respect and standing a couple steps away from it just in case.

      --
      Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    2. Re:And the news is where? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think "Bose" is just the American way to write "Böse", which is German for "evil". Fits pretty well, doesn't it? *puts on double-layered tinfoil overall*

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  2. I guess this proves... by thewiz · · Score: 3, Funny

    that in space, no one can hear you scre...

    --
    If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
    1. Re:I guess this proves... by Abreu · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually, I have another reference to make...

      So, does this mean that the octirion bells in Unseen University clock tower emit Hawking Radiation?

      --
      No sig for the moment.
  3. at last, the dream is realized! by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Funny

    "In one ear and out the other."

    1. Re:at last, the dream is realized! by damien_kane · · Score: 2, Funny

      "In one ear and out the other."

      Except that, in this case, it went in one ear and got stuck.

  4. Sort of Hawking Radiation by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 4, Informative

    That's somewhere in between a metaphor for Hawking Radiation and the real thing. It's not true HR, but it would be a nice demonstration if they were to get it to work, especially if they could show some sort of analog to black hole "evaporation," which is the main implication of HR. I suppose that should naturally happen as the separation of the pairs sucks energy from the BEC and slows the fluid inside, shrinking the event-horizon-analogue.

    Also, let's get properly flowing BEC layers in our noise canceling headphones!

    --
    "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    1. Re:Sort of Hawking Radiation by DriedClexler · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's somewhere in between a metaphor for Hawking Radiation and the real thing.

      Not a physicist, but here's how I think the metaphor between the experiment and the real thing is supposed to work:

      Speed of light: maximum speed information can travel through a vacuum ("the void")
      Speed of sound: maximum speed information can travel through a medium composed of atoms ("substance")

      (When aircraft go supersonic, the air they run into is incapable of "preparing" to be hit, in a manner of speaking...)

      We can't create stuff that goes faster than the speed of light, but we can create stuff that goes faster than the speed of sound. And just as you can't go fast enough to come back through an event horizon, information can't propagate fast enough in the experiment to go back across the subsonic/supersonic boundary. This shows us what it looks like to be in a situation like that of a black hole.

      By the way, there's a similar, cheaper experiment you can do: pop a hole in a pressurized container. The gas cannot escape it (at the outlet) faster than the local speed of sound, which is obtained whenever the ratio of pressure inside to pressure outside exceeds a critical value. One gas dynamics professor said I can think of it like this: "even though a higher pressure ratio creates a greater pressure potential difference, the gas inside the tank cannot 'learn' of the greater difference because that would require information to go *into* the tank, *against* the gas that is escaping at the speed of sound"

      Kind of like in the setup described in the article...

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    2. Re:Sort of Hawking Radiation by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's somewhere in between a metaphor for Hawking Radiation and the real thing.

      This isn't really a metaphor exactly. If the equations governing two systems are the same, then we expect the behavior to be the same, and we can describe them in the same terms. Phonons themselves are a good example of this: a phonon is hardly the sort of thing that you would intuitively think of as a particle, but because the equations governing phonons are the same as those governing quantum mechanical particles, physicists describe phonons as particles. Subatomic particles themselves bear very little resemblance to the 'billiard ball' particles that most people imagine. I think that it would be better to say that Hawking radiation is just an effect predicted for systems obeying certain equations, and in that sense, both the acoustic and traditional black holes exhibit completely real Hawking Radiation.

      It is true that getting 'acoustic Hawking radiation' wouldn't constitute absolute proof that Black Holes do the same thing - our model may be wrong. What it will do do is provide proof that, assuming our model is correct, Hawking radiation is real, and there isn't some unanticipated effect which invalidates the theory.

      I take your point, and you may easily have more expertise than I do (non-specialist grad quantum mechanics classes and a couple undergrad astro classes along with some casual enthusiasm for the subject). My understanding of Hawking radiation is that the split virtual pair explanation isn't physically accurate, but that tunneling of particles through the event horizon is the more physically valid explanation.

      1) I'm not aware of an analogous effect that will work for phonons. Tunneling itself is on the wrong lengthscale.

      2) Since the virtual particle pair splitting explanation also satisfies the radiation equations, maybe this difference doesn't have much significance. Were someone to convince me of this, I'd fully agree with you.

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    3. Re:Sort of Hawking Radiation by blincoln · · Score: 4, Informative

      We can't create stuff that goes faster than the speed of light, but we can create stuff that goes faster than the speed of sound.

      We can't create stuff that goes faster than the speed of light in a vacuum. We create things that travel faster than the speed of light in other media all the time. The blue Cherenkov Radiation glow in fission reactors is caused by particles exceeding the speed of light in water, and creating a light shockwave analogous to the sound shockwave that e.g. supersonic aircraft produce.

      /nitpick

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    4. Re:Sort of Hawking Radiation by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Informative

      One gas dynamics professor said I can think of it like this: "even though a higher pressure ratio creates a greater pressure potential difference, the gas inside the tank cannot 'learn' of the greater difference because that would require information to go *into* the tank, *against* the gas that is escaping at the speed of sound"

      I really don't like that explanation... it makes it seem like the pressure differential is "known" to the gas inside the cylinder via some sort of acoustically-transmitted information. My initial reaction was "HUH" and my secondary reaction was "ok, I don't buy that."

      After a little work on Google, I discovered that the effect really exists, but I think this link describes it better (emphasis mine):

      However, once the downstream pressure reaches or is less than the critical pressure, the compressible mass flow rate does not increase even though the downstream pressure is decreased further.

      This specific phenomenon is called as "choked flow", and the energy difference between the choked exit and ambient conditions is dissipated by shock wave and/or turbulence.

      Also, choked flow does not occur for thin-plate orifices, which wouldn't make sense relative to the explanation as given by that prof. If the flow was really being limited by the non-propagation of information against a gas flowing at the speed of sound, the thickness of the plate shouldn't matter.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    5. Re:Sort of Hawking Radiation by lgw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Arguably, light travels faster in a Casimir cavity than in a vacuum. Really, there's no reason to suppose that "emtpy space" represents the medium through which light flows the fastest, merely that it's somewhere close.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  5. 86 says by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Let's use the cone of silence, chief!

  6. Phonon ey? by Snowblindeye · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I knew light was quantized, but I had seriously never heard of Phonons, or that sound can be quantized as well.

    Well, apparently it can: Phonon

    1. Re:Phonon ey? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2, Informative

      Everything is quantized if you're looking at it at a small enough scale.

  7. Re:So...Bose sucks? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nah, Bose doesn't suck so much as you can get similar quality gear for a better price. It's swanky audio gear for people who don't know anything about audio gear.

    --
    Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
  8. Not Hawking Radiation by Big_Breaker · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is an analogy there in the macro physics but that doesn't mean the small scale stuff like QM will be mirrored.

    You can model gravity in the orbital mechanics sense with a marble and vertical cone that tapers at 1/square(height). That doesn't mean it will do anything relativistic or quantum mechanical.

    1. Re:Not Hawking Radiation by Manchot · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, phonons are indeed quantum mechanical. (A phonon is essentially the joint wavefunction describing many different nuclei in a solid.) The main difference that I see between this setup and a black hole is in the "vacuum" from which particles are created. In a solid, phonons are typically created by a myriad of scattering events. Two electrons could scatter off each other, an electron could scatter off a nucleus, a photon of visible light could make dozens of phonons, etc. Near a black hole, though, virtual pairs need to be created spontaneously from the vacuum. So, the upshot is that while the general mechanism is the same in both cases, I would guess that phonons in a BEC are created far more frequently than virtual pairs near a black hole.

  9. maybe we can use this to... by pha7boy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would hope we can use it to defend our civilization from both outside and inside attack. Maybe put a few of them in orbit that would suck in the drudgery of the reality shows and entertainment-news talking heads so that no outside civilization will feel the need to demolish the planet to build a hyperspace bypass. Plus, we won't have to listen/watch this crap anymore. A world without Fox/CNN/MSNBC... wow. I can only hope.

    --
    -- All this knowledge is giving me a raging brainer.
    1. Re:maybe we can use this to... by lgw · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, when will humanity invent this mysterious technology that allows us to avoid reality TV and cable news? This device, known to SciFi writers as the "off switch" may forever be the stuff of fiction.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  10. I buy it by oldhack · · Score: 2, Funny

    I need one of these for one of my neighbors. Does it swallow people and dogs, too? Cuz that'd be really good.

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  11. Not the first Acoustic Black Hole by GameGod0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Black holes in a Bathtub by E. Berti (2005):
    www.iop.org/EJ/article/1742-6596/8/1/013/jpconf5_8_013.pdf

    The argument basically goes that when you unplug your bathtub, there's a certain point at which waves generated past the "event horizon" near the hole never escape the hole. It's an interesting read, but I was under the impression that this is basically the same thing, albeit not an effect that arises from quantum field theory.

    1. Re:Not the first Acoustic Black Hole by lennier · · Score: 2, Funny

      Little known science fact: the LHC *is* a bathtub, and the Compact Muon Solenoid is merely a frontage for a giant yellow rubber duck.

      This will all be explored in Dan Brown's upcoming novel.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  12. DONT DO IT SCIENTISTS! by nausea_malvarma · · Score: 4, Funny

    You'll create a BLACK HOLE that ENGULFS THE EARTH! Just like the LHC!

    1. Re:DONT DO IT SCIENTISTS! by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 5, Funny

      Or even worse, the Earth will continue to exist and be entirely populated by mimes.

  13. Re:So...Bose sucks? by bFusion · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's like Monster Cables for speakers.

  14. Acoustic Black Hole by ronfuller · · Score: 3, Funny

    now we know how they made the "cone of silence" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_of_Silence

  15. Weaponize it and use it against car stereos. by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This could be even better than the "bass-seeking missile" that I've wanted to deploy for years.

    1. Re:Weaponize it and use it against car stereos. by StikyPad · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm bassuming there's an unintended 'B' in that sentence..

  16. Is it me or does this story scream Spinal Tap? by revjtanton · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
    Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
    Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
    Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
    Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
    Marty DiBergi: I don't know.
    Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
    Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
    Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
    Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
    Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven."
    "Nigel Tufnel: It's like, how much more black could this be? and the answer is none. None more black. "

    1. Re:Is it me or does this story scream Spinal Tap? by revjtanton · · Score: 2, Funny

      You sir are a genius! If these "scientists" try and display this one day to the public or for a nobel prize panel you should show up with the power of rock and destroy their evil!

    2. Re:Is it me or does this story scream Spinal Tap? by PGOER · · Score: 2, Funny

      Now, this is sounding like Yahoo Serious - Young Einstien (real Stupid Funny movie) Were talking splittling beer atoms to power the worlds first electric guitar, and lets not forget the oversized speaker from Back to the Future. Let me tell you there is NO WAY that an accoustic black hole can withstand a 8' speaker, fed from an amp that goes to eleven, and powered by beer atom fission! We're talking, fucking, muscle.

      --
      I am not a nerd, I just play one in real life. My avatar thinks I'm a total loser.
  17. Great by segfault7375 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sweet, now I just have to trick my wife into standing in it.. ah peace

  18. Re:From the tone of the description by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here, I'll fix it.

    The real prize is not the acoustic black hole itself but what it might makes possible: the first observation of something analogous to Hawking radiation. The Theory of Quantum mechanics predicts that pairs of phonons with opposite momentum ought to be constantly springing in and out of existence in a BEC. Theoretically, were one of the pair to stray across the event horizon into the supersonic region, it could never escape. However, the other would be free to go on its way. This stream of phononic radiation away from an acoustic black hole would be the first observation of anything even vaguely resembling Hawking radiation. The team hasn't actually achieved any of this though. It can't be long now before they or their numerous competitors make this leap. Unless their hypothesis is totally wrong, which is entirely possible. But that doesn't sound particularly impressive, so we'll just forget about that bit...

    --
    -1 Uncomfortable Truth
  19. Re:So...Bose sucks? by FusionFox · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In the same way that finding somebody that judges a person based on what cellphone they use is a nice way to know what type of person they are in advance?

  20. Acoustic black hole... by soconn · · Score: 2, Funny

    Isn't that the name of the new Britney Spears album?

  21. Phonon != Photon! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How do you infer from the effects of phonons, that the same happens to photons? If they had the same effects, this would mean that luminiferous aether would exist. Which as far as we know, is not true, and replaced by the theory of relativity. Or would it be the effect of a quantized space-time? And would those quantums then be some kind of particles?

    Or is the analogy just wrong, except for some subsets? ^^

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  22. Not so fast... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Funny

    The first Acoustic Black Hole was actually created back in 1981.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  23. what would happen... by Fuzzums · · Score: 2, Interesting

    we all know photon pairs are connected. an observation on changes the state of the other. (quantum entanglement) but what happens if one of a pair of photons enters a black hole and the other remains outside?

    does quantum entanglement still exist fo these photons? does the photon still exist inside the black hole or does it disintegrate or change state? if so: what would happen to the other photon outside?

    i call whatever will happen the Fuzzums effect ;)

    --
    Privacy is terrorism.
  24. Re:So...Bose sucks? by dangitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The reality is, most people don't have super-discriminating ears, and are therefore not really capable of telling much difference between any speakers.

    You don't need super-discriminating ears to know that Bose systems sound like shit. It's perfectly obvious. Bose doesn't even do well against inexpensive systems, let alone ones in the Bose price-range.

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.