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Microsoft's Free AV App May Be a Non-Starter
CWmike writes "Microsoft is preparing to launch a public beta of Morro, the free anti-malware it announced last November, according to reports. Morro will use the same scanning engine as Windows Live OneCare, the software that the free software will replace and Microsoft's first consumer-grade antivirus package. OneCare is to get the boot as of June 30 (along with finance app Microsoft Money). John Pescatore, an analyst at Gartner, has questioned whether users would step up to Morro even if it was free. 'Consumers are hesitant to pay for a Microsoft security product that will remove problems in other Microsoft products,' he said. 'Think of it this way. What if you smelled a rotten egg odor in your water and the water company said, "Sure, we can remove that, but it will cost you $50." Would you buy it?' Not surprisingly, competitors have dismissed Morro's threat to their business. 'We like our chances,' Todd Gebhart, vice president in charge of McAfee's consumer line, said when it was announced OneCare was a goner. 'Consumers have already rejected OneCare,' added Rowan Trollope, senior vice president of consumer software at Symantec. 'Making that same substandard security technology free won't change that equation.'"
As long as it doesn't suck as much as Norton (slow, hard to remove), I'll take a look at it. Right now I'm running ClamWin, and I'm looking for a better (free) anti-virus.
I'm not the biggest Microsoft fan out there, but this summary feels a little over the top.
'We like our chances,' Todd Gebhart, vice president in charge of McAfee's consumer line, said when it was announced OneCare was a goner. 'Consumers have already rejected OneCare,' added Rowan Trollope, senior vice president of consumer software at Symantec. 'Making that same substandard security technology free won't change that equation.'"
How can you say that with a straight face? The difference between for-pay and free is huge. And rebranding can make a big difference-- look at the recent success of Bing, for instance.
Personally, I think people are aching for alternatives to the current big players like McAfee. I'm reminded of this recent slashdot story-
"'Security firms Symantec and McAfee have both agreed to pay $375,000 to US authorities after they automatically renewed consumers' subscriptions without their consent.' The two companies were reported to the New York Attorney General after people complained that their credit cards were being charged without their consent. The investigators found that information about the auto-renewals was hidden at the bottom of long web pages or buried in the EULA."
I think something that's free and easy to use can compete very well against this sort of customer abuse.
p.s. anyone else find the quotation by John Pescatore completely unintelligible? Either he's very confused with his analogies or was misquoted.
Microsoft, the virtual inventor of buggy bananaware and OS monoculture that enables mass distributable malware gets into the A/V market. Sounds like Typhoid Mary selling antibiotics...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Microsoft make shitty pay for software do you really want to trust their free software?
"Making that same substandard security technology free won't change that equation.'"
Hmm?
If you're interested in facts I'll tell you what they are and I'll give you sources - Chomsky on The Big Idea
'Think of it this way. What if you smelled a rotten egg odor in your water and the water company said, "Sure, we can remove that, but it will cost you $50." Would you buy it?'
This analogy is just dumb. This is a free product. Obviously the analogy would have the water company saying, "Sure, we can remove that for free."
Not to mention 'Consumers are hesitant to pay for a Microsoft security product that will remove problems in other Microsoft products,' which is a stupid point to make about a free product.
Furthermore, MS's security "problems" are over a billion installs. As we see every year when they tie Linux as the most secure system in pwn2own, they've got nothing to be upset about on the technical side of things.
And finally, "added Rowan Trollope, senior vice president of consumer software at Symantec. 'Making that same substandard security technology free won't change that equation'" is pretty funny from a guy representing a company that actually charges for substandard security technology.
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
Alternative names sugestions: Sucke, Foo, Stupi etc.
I'm surprised a quote from this article didn't make it in:
How many people want all of their traffic explicitly going through Microsoft?
Right, there's no way you could have, say, a malicious perl script.
Seriously, his analogy is pretty far off. Let me try: Think of it this way. What if you smelled a rotten egg odor in your water and the water company said, "Sure, we can remove that, and it's a free service." Not that I have a lot of faith in MS's product quality here, but still, saying that users won't sign for a free service because it's a service they don't think they should have to pay for is a pretty stupid comment.
fdisk the anti-virus i run on it
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
The rotten egg odor is coming from sulfur. It's probably harmless in the quantity you're getting, even if you can smell it. Whole house filters that remove the odor are going to cost a hell of a lot more than $50 and require ongoing maintenance, so if the water company offers a service to provide extra-filtered water for a one-time fee, you should jump.
perl is relatively malicious on its own
They should have called it noOneCares.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I may not be a big fan of OneCare, but I've got to say this may be a step in the right direction. All too often I'm working on systems that are only a few months old that have been infected, all because the owner didn't notice their AV trial had expired. I'm sure that MS will/should make it easy to remove for those that are tech savy and wish to use their own personal AV package. But for the n00bs and dumbasses out there, this is a good thing to have, just like making Windows Defender a part of Vista.
The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
Supposedly, Morro is based on Forefront Client Security, and onecare has been completely phased out. Considering the poster, I'm surprised that the article didn't say that morro eats babies and killed your dog.
As for Onecare, I had it. It was a great scanner and a firewal. The only reason I got rid of it was because of the onecare circle. in Onecare you had 3 licences. In version 2.5, they developed this Onecare Circle to help you keep track of security on all three copies. and all it would do is scream about this pc being out of date, or scan this pc, or backup this one, or the firewall isn't working on this PC when it was. after two months of that nonsense (since you couldn't shut it offat the server side) I said to hell with this and put avira back on.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
I have to use a bad car analogy. If I buy a BMW and it breaks down, I take it to the BMW dealer to work on it. Some people obviously opt for third party repair, but a lot trust the manufacturer, even though it is often design problems that caused the breakdown. I understand that people have unreasonable expectations that their purchases don't have vulnerabilities and will last forever, but the other 95% of the population recognizes that complicated systems need repairs and protection.
I don't know if this will be successful, but to think that it should not be trusted or immediately dismissed is ignorant. That being said, I don't use Microsoft products, largely because I don't like AV. Linux FTW!
If it's anything as effective as One Care, I'm going to stay away. I received a free 1 year subscription to One Care at a Microsoft event about 2 years ago and ran it until it expired. After removing it and re-installing my previous Symantec product, it detected around a dozen viruses and malware infections that One Care did not notice. Since then I've kept my distance from any Microsoft AV type product.
Launch every sig.
It works on everything I try it on! It works on Windows and Linux and Mac OS X! I just have to go to a web page and it scans my machine and tells me how many viruses I have.
Trolling a little, eh? Your post is complete nonsense.
"Right, there's no way you could have, say, a malicious perl script." - by sqlrob (173498)
on Friday June 12, @09:46AM (#28307331)
Agreed, 110%... And, "right, there's no way you could have, say, a malicious javascripted page or malicious javascript adbanner affect Linux either"
(NOT! Mainly because javascript runs everywhere & is the "vector for infection" across any OS there is, via webbrowsers themselves - correct me if I am wrong on this account fellas, but, it's right along the same lines that sqlrob is hitting upon...).
APK
P.S.=> And, as far as the subject-line above? "Yea, right" (sarcasm) again, because these items show otherwise:
-----
Bitten By the Red Hat Perl Bug:
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/29/1423201
(Per SQLRob's statement, no less)
-----
Linux.Slapper.Worm:
http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2002-091311-5851-99
-----
New worm targets Linux systems (Lupper):
http://news.cnet.com/New-worm-targets-Linux-systems/2100-7349_3-5938475.html
-----
But, then again, because it was said on SLASHDOT that "Viruses aren't a problem in Linux", per the subject-line above (again)?
"Well, heck, those other sources I just put out MUST be lies"... right, Linux Penguins?
Hate to tell you this truth then: "NOT!"
Because the main thing defending Linux vs. these "heinous machinations" is the fact it is less used than Windows (The most used OS on the most used hardware platform for personal computers in x86 that there is, bar-none)...
I.E.-> Security by obscurity, as the saying goes, IS what defends Linux from attacks! IF Linux is ever as widely used as Windows is, you can bank on it that it will be just as oft attacked as Windows is & has been the past decade++ now, because it will be the most used. MacOS X, once it started gaining market share, began to be attacked a lot more than any other *NIX variant I know of, because of it gaining ground... same thing WOULD happen to Linux, should it start stealing personal computer desktop share worldwide.
(Mainly because today's malware makers aren't out to "wreck your machine", as they used to be - now, it's a far more serious game: They're after your personal information & monies (such as stealing credit card #'s &/or other personal info.) OR turning your machine into a zombied DDOS slave, so it can be used to attack others - so, to do that? These malware makers did the LOGICAL thing (from their pov), & that's to attack the most widely used body of systems there is, Windows NT-based ones!) apk
..to computers that don't have any antivirus software on. Same with Defender too... Although AVG and other free antivirus tools are pretty good, a lot of people never think about actually getting and installing them.
Visit ssjx.co.uk
Gee, you had to go back 8 years to find three issues. The first one isn't even malware, just bad programming by the vendor that reduces performance. The next two are specific to Apache web servers, NOT Linux.
If those were the best examples you could come up withm then I guess you succeeded in disproving your own point.
"'Consumers are hesitant to pay for a Microsoft security product that will remove problems in other Microsoft products,"' Well, yes. But it is not just that. We already pay for Microsoft product defects in other ways too. Let's say you are doing a major rollout of Active Directory or Exchange. Sometimes, the only way you get a bug fix is to get a support contract from Microsoft or hire a company that has a support contract. Any Exchange administrator of a good size organization can tell you that Exchange has more than its fair share of bugs, and this new one, Exchange 2007, is no exception. Which leads to the question, where is the incentive on the part of Microsoft to produce really good software? Why not just produce mediocre software and then ask people to pay more money to fix it?
There's a type in the product name - they forgot the 'n' at the end.
Hope is the currency of fools
'Think of it this way. What if you smelled a rotten egg odor in your water and the water company said, "Sure, we can remove that, but it will cost you $50."
I think that analogy is broken. Very few malware use the holes in MS software these days. Most of the viruses spread by user error, email, IM, flaws in Flash/Acrobat etc. MS is offering a service to clean them up and does provide free fixes for bugs in their software. Obligatory car analogy, car company sells insurance for breakins and accidents and charges extra. Why not pay for it if the deal is good?
This space for rent.
Infected windows machines are a plague on the internet. Many of these presumably have no useful anti-malware running. Microsoft takes lots of heat, as the comments above prove. So Microsoft decides that trying to sell anti-malware won't work, but maybe giving it away, and I assume bundling it, will get it widely deployed. And take some heat off Microsoft for shipping vulnerable stuff. If this happens, and it works at all, it will be a great improvement to the current mess. To put it differently - it's clearly impossible to make an OS bug proof - so an OS ought to contain defenses against malware out of the box.
"I think that analogy is broken. Very few malware use the holes in MS software these days. Most of the viruses spread by user error, email, IM, flaws in Flash/Acrobat etc"
Defects in application or 'user error' shouldn't lead to the OS being compromised or the consumers having to pay the sellers more money to fix their defective product.
"Gee, you had to go back 8 years to find three issues. The first one isn't even malware, just bad programming by the vendor that reduces performance. The next two are specific to Apache web servers, NOT Linux." - by parodyca (890419)
on Friday June 12, @10:12AM (#28307657) Homepage
Does it matter how far back I had to go, & no, not all are from "8 yrs. ago", because below also shows otherwise!
So, to prove the subject-line is bullshit? I provided contrary evidence thereof...
However, it appears You need more proofs then, apparently, so here you are/"ask & ye shall receive":
Linux RAMEN Worm:
http://service1.symantec.com/sarc/sarc.nsf/html/linux.ramen.worm.html
Net-Worm.Linux.Mighty:/b>
http://www.viruslist.com/en/viruses/encyclopedia?virusid=23864
DroneBL Security researchers warn of Linux Router worm (PsyB0t)
http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=25399&catid=5
Linux ADORE Worm:
http://www.sss.ca/sensible/home.nsf/6481a22be8dfdd19852568c900171fc6/abbbaec934169f6d85256a280054fd31?OpenDocument
New Worm Targets Linux Web Service Holes:
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/New-Worm-Targets-Linux-Web-Service-Holes/
gicumz worm:
http://blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/305
Linux malware list (37 Viruses, worms, & trojans on Linux):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_computer_viruses
(Want more?? I'll supply them... & they're not all "8 years back either", don't you OR can't you read & determine dates? Apparently not...)
APK
P.S.=> Better luck next time, because all of your "it's old news" b.s. propoganda doesn't matter, if your subject-line is absolute b.s. - gotta love the Linux Penguin crew around here, with their "straight outta pravda" 1/2 truths they spout... lol! apk
The water company advertised spring water filtered through volcanic rock from water frozen in glaciers milena ago. We called them and told them about the 'rotten egg odor'. They then offer to license a charcoal filter to us for $50.00 a year, to be fitter on premises at another $40.00. If we used any other charcoal filter, they advised us that we might be violating some other company's patents. They reassure us that if we buy their charcoal filter they will give us patent protection against getting sued by this other company. The water company hold a financial interest in the other company. They don't ever offer to indemnify us against getting sued for getting sulfur in our water. Even though they are the only water company that sells sulfurous water. The media invariable refer to 'sulfurous water', instead of $company sulfured water ?
As much I would like to bash Microsoft from time to time. latest AV-Comparatives report has them up there with ESET NOD32. With Microsoft you never know if that included some sums of money, but yeah.
I wonder how they got the name, sounds a bit like tomorrow or something Spanish..
I found it funny as the word morro in Japanese is how you describe getting a fatal sword thrust to your heart / neck, i.e. "to suffer a fatal blow that hits you right in a critical place" is a way to translate it.
Of course as others note, M$ selling AV is itself a funny proposition.
I stopped using Symantec products after they failed miserably in supporting Vista.
They tried to blame Microsoft, and yet their competitors (like Kaspersky) already had vully featured Vista-compatible versions out already.
Symantec's solution was to ship out their broken application and hope nobody noticed.
Why doesn't MS just spend the time building an OS that is not as vulnerable to viruses and malware? Since they won't do that, why not just build the AV stuff in at a lower lever so that it is not obvious to the user that they are even running AV? MS likes to sneak stuff in under your nose anyway, why not something that will make the OS safer and more stable? Oh yeah, it's probably because of some conspiricy like they are the major shareholder in Symantec or Norton...
If I was unwilling to pay Microsoft $50 to buy a product that detected and fixed problems with their other products, what makes you think I'd find it any more palatable to be buying a similar product from you folks?
Don't bother answering, guys. Your response would only make me laugh. You see my desktop hasn't needed any of your products for a good number of years now. In fact, the only Microsoft product loaded on any of our computers is a semi-broken version of XP that now wants to be re-authorized because I added an old SCSI controller to the system. Like that's ever going to happen. (When I get the time, another 80GB of disk space will be available for my daughters to use on Linux.)
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
So it can "fail" to recognize my anti-virus software, and sign me up to have all my net traffic routed through Microsoft for analysis? No thank you.
OneCare is to get the boot as of June 30 (along with finance app Microsoft Money).
Man--I have mixed emotions about this one.
Microsoft Money is the one app I still miss from the Microsoft platform. There's nothing like it for Linux.
I occasionally think about settings up a virtual machine to run Money--but I cringe about paying $125 for an XP license to run a $50 program.
But thank God I'm free from the curse. Now I never have to think wistfully about any app on the Microsoft platform...
There's no place like
This would be ZOMG M$ Windoze Con$piracy abusing MONOPOLY power! European Comission come save us!
I can't believe the biggest focus out of all this is on the "evolution" (or whatever) of their anti-virus, with little mention of the end of the Money product line.
I feel for all the people who have been locked in to MS money, like the one in the article. Hopefully it will drive him to open source... however I haven't really been able to find a good alternative to Money and/or Quicken for Home/SMB finance.. any suggestions?
I put on my robe and wizard hat..
It'd be easier to include obfuscated malicious code into some other source code to give you remote access to the machine.
I agree; Money is a good program. Of course, it's not the only app on Windows I use, but since we're both in the same boat... what do you plan on to replace Money?
And please, nobody say GNUCash. It's a pile of crap... I actually moved from GNUCash TO Money!
Must be true, Mcaffe and Symantec have been making "substandard security technology" for years now. The ol "takes one to know one" is irrefutable.
Microsoft has, for years, maintained three separate tools in this space (that I know of, there might be others). They change the names of them periodically, to confuse their hapless victims.
Microsoft Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool
You gotta read this page. They release a new version every month. It apparently cannot remove viruses which are not actively running. Why is this tool not built in to Microsoft Windows Defender?
Windows Live One Care
This link shows a forum moderator, chastising a poor infested user for asking a question about a different Microsoft antivirus product -- Microsoft Windows Defender. Why are these separate products, again?
Microsoft Windows Defender
Formerly known as Microsoft AntiSpyware.
These should be one product. The fact that Microsoft maintains three separate products to deal with this problem is, itself, an indication of a very serious ongoing problem at Microsoft. As a company, they still don't take this seriously.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
The wikipedia article is cute.
Jump to: navigation, search
The Linux operating system, Unix and other Unix-like computer operating systems are generally regarded as well-protected against computer viruses.[1]
There has not yet been a single widespread Linux malware threat of the type that Microsoft Windows software currently faces; this is commonly attributed to the malware's lack of root access and fast updates to most Linux vulnerabilities.[2]
Jump to: navigation, search
The Linux operating system, Unix and other Unix-like computer operating systems are generally regarded as well-protected against computer viruses.[1]
There has not yet been a single widespread Linux malware threat of the type that Microsoft Windows software currently faces; this is commonly attributed to the malware's lack of root access and fast updates to most Linux vulnerabilities.[2]
The likelihood of a successful trojan on any distro using a repository system is as close to zero as you'd want.
I'm sure you already know about unix permissions and SELinux. Have you tried running Firefox via chroot on windows yet? Linux is more secure, period. It's not perfectly secure, but it has never had a major virus. Neither, AFAIK, has Mac OS X. Also, linux can be made more secure than just about any other OS, without losing functionality.
Now, try counting the number of windows trojans. The platform is easier to write viruses for--especially on systems older than Vista, or Vista systems with UAC disabled (that is, the vast majority of Windows installs). Windows has many more vulnerabilities, and once you get onto the system, you've pretty much got the whole enchilada. You can replace something like disk.sys and do a low-level write to the boot sector (or wherever). And do you want to open the cans of worms that are ActiveX and IE6?
It's a very nice troll, but we're not talking out of our asses here.
When you create a product that spawns a multi-billion dollar market focused on protecting people from the flaws in your product, you've done something wrong. This is something that should have happened years ago.
They got Kermit the Frog and Big Bird naming their products now.
It is easy to make a trojan on Linux. Unix permissions mean squat to effective malware. Running as the user is more than enough to spew spam or be part of a botnet. Yes, it's easier clean. No, it doesn't work if someone else logs in. When you're talking single user systems, that's irrelevant.
SELinux and other MAC are a lot of the solution. Problem is, there isn't anything good enough for the average user, not yet anyway. I was hoping Leopard was going to be it, but Apple blew it. MS made Vista too annoying and people turn it off, assuming they hadn't gone back to XP.
I know a ton of people that will use it because it is free- As will I, but I will at keep a regular back-up.
Morro will use the same scanning engine as Windows Live OneCare, Microsoft's first consumer-grade antivirus package
Microsoft's first consumer-grade antivirus package? Oooh, you must mean MSAV, released once, updated never. The most useless antivirus software in the history of antivirus software.
It doesn't matter.
You don't need *any* software vulnerability to infect a user's machine with malware. All you need is a user who will run your application.
In any OS that let's the end-user decide what software to run, Malware can exist.
A dumb Linux user is just as likely to install 'Free Screen Savers!!!' as a dumb Windows user.
"I'm sure you already know about unix permissions and SELinux. Have you tried running Firefox via chroot on windows yet? Linux is more secure, period. It's not perfectly secure, but it has never had a major virus. Neither, AFAIK, has Mac OS X. Also, linux can be made more secure than just about any other OS, without losing functionality." - by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12, @11:29AM (#28308857)
I sure do, & note it in this article (yes, it's for Windows, & allows securing Windows NT-based OS of "modern variety" (2000/XP/Server 2003 & even VISTA etc. et al) FAR better than they are by default) ->
----
HOW TO SECURE Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 & even VISTA, + make it "fun-to-do", via CIS Tool Guidance (& Beyond):
http://www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php?s=1cfece2a1c826e6840c98db9377ac9c8&showtopic=2662
----
CIS Tool is also noted well by COMPUTERWORLD, & is MULTIPLATFORM (meaning *NIX users (BSD &/or Linux variants + SOLARIS users can use it as well)... in fact, Bert64, a user here on /.? His results are featured in that guide, 1st post... & he used SuSe Linux iirc!
SeLinux is a set of kernel hooks (kernel patching) that allows better than std. *NIX permissions, but then again? So do Windows NT-based OS' ACL's... & yes, they work:
Would you like to see others' results which have been just like my own from that guide above?
(With myself & others seeing no virus/trojan/spyware/malware in general infections here for more than a decade using the principals &/or techniques my article above notes on Windows)? I can supply them, just ask (url's & quoted testimonials)
Try this one, for starters:
http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ae352cd32542fe49a55fe00b11086449&t=28430&page=3
"Its 2009 - still trouble free! I was told last week by a co worker who does active directory administration, and he said I was doing overkill. I told him yes, but I just eliminated the half life in windows that you usually get. He said good point. So from 2008 till 2009. No speed decreases, its been to a lan party, moved around in a move, and it still NEVER has had the OS reinstalled besides the fact I imaged the drive over in 2008. Great stuff! My client STILL Hasn't called me back in regards to that one machine to get it locked down for the kid. I am glad it worked and I am sure her wallet is appreciated too now that it works. Speaking of which, I need to call her to see if I can get some leads. APK - I will say it again, the guide is FANTASTIC! Its made my PC experience much easier. Sandboxing was great. Getting my host file updated, setting services to system service, rather than system local. (except AVG updater, needed system local)" - THRONKA (forums user @ xtremepccentral)
----
"It's a very nice troll, but we're not talking out of our asses here." - by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12, @11:29AM (#28308857)
Funny: The lists I put up of over 50++ virus/trojans/worms & other exploits possible on Linux in my previous responses to you, DO seem to show QUITE otherwise...
APK
P.S.=>
"The wikipedia article is cute." - by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12, @11:29AM (#28308857)
Sure is: It shows over 37++ virus/trojans/worms & other exploits possible (or, were possible) on Linux... apk
It's about time MS released an AV product! All those i've tried (Clamwin, AVG, Symantec, etc.) can't detect my viruses. I know for a fact they're called "kernel32", "UAC", "svchost", and the dreaded "taskman." Who knows, there might be more of them gallivanting around my computer!
The problem is not making a trojan for Linux, it is getting it run and getting it to survive a reboot
Getting it to run is harder since it is normally not just a click to run, getting it to survive a reboot is much harder since a user does not normally have the rights to do this ...
There are malware and viruses for Linux, but they were all without exception limited by they fact that most systems were unlikely to allow them to run themselves and on the few that did they did not survive a reboot, all the mildly successful ones used a flaw in a program to get themselves run and when this was patched (usually very soon after) then it died because the majority of systems were updated with the fix
The real problems with Windows systems are being addressed by Microsoft, default rights (don't run as admin, and make sure most programs don't assume/require you are running as admin), auto update (the main parts of a windows systems are now updated automatically, but not all parts and not all programs), don't be a monoculture (Not good in Windows, but Ubuntu Linux is going the wrong way on this....)
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
The cynic in me doesn't trust any of the big AV security companies. They have a clear motive to make sure their products are needed. An OS manufacturer on the other hand is motivated to produce a secure environment, and in this case where Apple has been hammering Microsoft about this issue, there is even more motivation. I'll certainly be giving this free offering a try. BTW- The rotten egg analogy was pretty lame.
The fact that it was McAfee saying that makes me laugh... but even so, it's likely their product will be better than any Microsoft AV will be. Why? Not that Microsoft will make the worst AV, but it's about dedication. "Internet Security" companies like Norton and McAfee only control a niche market (firewall/AV software), so they will prop up their flagship products as much as they can, because without them, they're sunk. A company like Microsoft won't have to maintain it out of necessity, and this could easily go the way of FrontPage, OneCare, Money (as mentioned in TFS), Picture It!, and other products that it shed like excess skin as the years went on.
Yet Another Tech Blog
(but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
Maybe their choice of source product isn't as good this time, but they previously made (I think) a good choice in bringing Giant AntiSpyware into the fold as Windows Defender. Giant was at the time one of the better scanners, which would make a good addition particularly for people who don't want to buy/install 3rd party apps. It's only appropriate that windows had both spyware and virus removal built in (note that there's already the malware removal component of windows update).
This leaves the door open (or maybe sets the bar higher) for 3rd party apps to compete, but at least gives the average users (who don't do their due dilligence in cleaning the PC) a fighting chance of having a non-zombie pc.
On a more pessimistic note, all that correct posturing will turn to dust if the product really does route all data through microsoft, because I'll be blocking it right out of the gate.
When you login to your Linux desktop, there's a ton of bash scripts and other startup software running behind the scenes. Getting a program to survive a reboot on a desktop system is not difficult.
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Carl "Bing" Morro is the protagonist of the novel "Never Lark Nor Eagle" by Ray Castagnaro.
Microsoft "Bing"
Microsoft "Morro"
If the next one is Microsoft "Carl" I think Ray needs to talk to his lawyers.
Given how good they've been at filtering SPAM from my hotmail account (about as good as a deranged chimpanzee using a dartboard), I wouldn't go near this thing...
you are running the worst piece of malware ever created- namely a M$ OS? I doubt it.
Has it occurred to anyone that if Microsoft is not going to make money from this anti-malware product because they choose not to charge users for it. Wouldn't it have made more sense to invest the money spent in the development of this into doing a better job of patching Windows, and generally making it more secure from malware? For the same company that makes such an insecure operating system to also make a piece of software put a "security band-aid" over it makes no sense at all. The Microsoft programmers have access to the Windows source code right to do this right? It's just a matter of upper management making a smart decision with money spent on R&D.
Peace
Why?
1. I don't normally worry about viruses or malwares. Running one is just a precaution, especially after downloading stuff from net.
2. Symantec and McAfee just SUCK. I don't know why they are still in business. Their business model is to spread FUD so people will buy their shitty products that do more harm than good.
3. I've had much more success with free AV software than non-free ones. Microsoft Defender is actually pretty good. There is also a Chinese malware product called 360safe (http://www.360safe.com) that I use. On the contrary S/M never cleaned a malware for me once.
MS Money running in virtual box is the best finance app for the macintosh, too. Actually, I use 2004 since when I tried 2005 I didn't like the UI as much, but I'm still a little sad to see it go, even if I wasn't planning on upgrading.
Does it work with Wine?
This does show the problem with closed source software (and closed source file formats). If microsoft is killing a product, they should release the file format specs so users can migrate their data. exporting as QIF loses information in the translation.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
update: I did a quick search (before trying to reverse engineer it myself) and with a bit of hex editing (and repairing), you can open it with Access
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
I agree; Money is a good program. Of course, it's not the only app on Windows I use, but since we're both in the same boat... what do you plan on to replace Money?
And please, nobody say GNUCash. It's a pile of crap... I actually moved from GNUCash TO Money!
I switched to MoneyDance--it's the one proprietary linux app I run on my box. It's decent, but it's nothing like MS Money. Some basic reports, check register, tracking loans--just none of the 'polish' that Money has. It's getting better though, and I believe you get free upgrades for life once you buy it.
There's no place like
Microsoft Money is the one app I still miss from the Microsoft platform. There's nothing like it for Linux.
Well if you really want to run Linux on your PC and still want to lock yourself into products that only run under an Microsoft OS there are two ways of approaching this problem. Obviously the first step is to install a recent Linux distribution on your PC then.
The total cost of installing MS Money under Linux is exactly the same as if you installed it under MS Windows and the same is true for all MS Windows centric software.
Of course a quick Google search will display Linux software equivalents to MS Windows software. In the case of MS Money you have GnuCash, KMyMoney, jGnash, MoneyDance, Grisbi, PLCash, CrossOver Office with Quicken, lazy8ledger. All run natively under Linux on the Intel architecture and if you don't like the free solutions you can pay for a proprietary solution that will work under Linux.
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Anti-Virus
Have we forgot that MS already tried to bundle AV with their OS?
"You don't need *any* software vulnerability to infect a user's machine with malware. All you need is a user who will run your application." - by RobDude (1123541) on Friday June 12, @12:12PM (#28309469)
TOO true, & unfortunate for folks that create legitimate & harmless wares, such as screensavers which others have mentioned in this exchange (or, others). The misguided miscreants that do so, in creating such malwares that are disguised, truly mess it up for guys & gals that do "freeware/shareware" (like I used to, legitimate benign ones on my part though) via creation of mistrust of their wares nowadays especially.
I'll give you guys a practical example, which anyone that codes WILL/SHOULD, understand:
I wrote up a screensaver for the 2005-present Sci-Fi series called "Dr. Who" by the BBC... it internally contained, as a "resource", an .avi file to playback upon execution (which it extracts from WITHIN itself to disk & then into RAM), which was the new series intro. (which I felt was very cool, so I created it for other fans like myself to enjoy) so it was a "SINGLE MOVING PART ONLY" self-contained design which really needed no other parts (other than CODECS to playback the animation).
I got a LOT of "mistrust" (rightfully so) from the Dr. Who forums where it was featured... until I told them 'scan it first using an up-to-date antivirus &/or antispyware solution', which their admins did, found it safe, & they literally told me "I fell in love with it".
Which is fine, it was NOT a 'malware'...
HOWEVER, the "build principal", of a single moving part that contained its other part (.avi file) I used?
THAT COULD BE USED FOR FOISTING SUCH MALWARES ON OTHERS, & it probably WOULD escape detection by antivirus &/or antispyware programs... I suspect this, because the program itself functioned almost like a "terminator" really, per this quote from the original film "THE TERMINATOR":
"Listen: The terminator's an infiltration unit - part man, part machine. Underneath, it's a Hyper-Alloy 'combat chassis' - microprocessor controlled (Fully armored, VERY tough), but outside it's living human tissue. Flesh, Skin, Hair, Blood... grown for the cyborgs. The 600 series had rubber skin, we spotted them easy, but these are new. They look human. Sweat, bad breath, everything (very hard to spot)"
The point being is, that I could have packed in a malware executable INSIDE the legitimate code, alongside the .avi file it played back, & detonated it (especially only @ RANDOM intervals, so it would not be easily spotted)... I also compress ALL/EACH shareware/freeware I have ever done, fully "armoring it" vs. many forms of disassembly (though not all, especially once it is in memory loaded). It's "skin/hair/flesh/blood" was its actual legit code. I however, did NOT pack in a malware into it, only an .avi file as a playable resource... the theory alone there shows it could be used for nefarious purposes though, by packing in a bogus .exe for example instead.
(And, trust me guys: There truly IS very little "original thought", so IF I CAN THINK OF IT? OTHERS DOUBTLESS HAVE DONE IT... how sad, & it would 'sucker' fans of say, a fav. show via things like screensavers or other apps - taking advantage of human nature in 'fanboyism' I suppose).
APK
P.S.=> So, another quote from that film, "THE TERMINATOR", in regards to the poster I am quoting now:
"LISTEN, & understand: That terminator IS OUT THERE - it can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with... it doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear, AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER... until you are DEAD!"
This is what scares me, & makes me sad how screwed up + bogus some folks can be... & how STUPID we can be to one another, especially in the name of "the love of money" only... apk
"AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition is for private, non-commercial, single computer use only."
"If those were the best examples you could come up withm then I guess you succeeded in disproving your own point." - by parodyca (890419) on Friday June 12, @10:12AM (#28307657) Homepage
Well, @ this point, here are 50++ more evidences of his title of "Viruses aren't a Problem in Linux" subject-line being b.s.!
That all "said & aside"? Here we go:
Threat Encyclopedia Search Results for *NIX oriented malwares/virus/trojans etc. et al (pages 14-25, approximately 50++ more ontop of the 40 or so I have already noted in my prior posts here):
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=14<r=U
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=15<r=U
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=16<r=U
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=17<r=U
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=18<r=U
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=19<r=U
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=20<r=U
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=21<r=U
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=22<r=U
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=23<r=U
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=24<r=U
http://threatinfo.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/alphalisting.asp?NAV=25<r=U
&
New Worm Targets Linux Web Service Holes:
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/New-Worm-Targets-Linux-Web-Service-Holes/
More info on the new Linux worm
http://blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/305
APK
P.S.=> Oh, by the by: If the (so far) 90++ evidences of worms, viruses, trojans, malwares & general faults in Linux' security? I think you're not as experienced in these matters as you'd like to think is all - especially with you're stating & agreeing about this exchange's subject-line of "Viruses Aren't a Problem in Linux" etc. et al... apk
Microsoft Money is the one app I still miss from the Microsoft platform. There's nothing like it for Linux.
Well if you really want to run Linux on your PC and still want to lock yourself into products that only run under an Microsoft OS there are two ways of approaching this problem.
I think you missed my point. If you compare Microsoft Money to *any* money app on the Linux platform, the linux platform comes up short.
I don't use Windows in my house. No virtual machines, not even media lying around. But I still miss Money because there's nothing like it for Linux.
There's no place like
...all of which are owned by root and you (and any malware) have no access to be able to change ....
This is why it is difficult to get it to survive a reboot
There is no such thing as a "Desktop" system there is just a system tuned for the desktop with particular packages selected
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
I'm not sure MoneyDance will work for me; I have the H&B version of Money, and actually use it to create invoices and track business expenses. The only other option seems to be Quickbooks.. and I was happy to leave Quicken years ago..
I'm not sure MoneyDance will work for me; I have the H&B version of Money, and actually use it to create invoices and track business expenses. The only other option seems to be Quickbooks.. and I was happy to leave Quicken years ago..
In that case, MoneyDance won't work for you. I've used MS Money H&B 2007, and it's lightyears past MoneyDance. I'm sure they'll get there eventually. Too bad it isn't open source...
There's no place like
Your .bashrc file is owned by root?
I suspect you are trying to be 'technical' here, but the upshot is that you're 100% wrong.
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
... and the script will be running as you ... will all your lack of ability to do anything destructive (except to your data files)
Puteulanus fenestra mortis