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Will AT&T Charge Extra For MMS & Tethering?
snydeq writes "InfoWorld's Bill Snyder questions whether AT&T's jockeying on tethering and MMS may signal coming iPhone pricing surcharges. After all, as Apple's exclusive US partner, Ma Bell should have plenty of insight into upcoming iPhone features and revenue opportunities. Yet AT&T was very conspicuous in its absence from the list of providers who will support tethering and MMS at Tuesday's launch of the new iPhone at WWDC, and by Wednesday, it was backpedaling furiously, saying it will offer both services — later in the year. Certainly, the exclusive arrangement between the companies is proving to be an ugly roadblock to Apple's iPhone vision. But Snyder thinks it may go deeper than that: 'My best guess is that we'll see horrendous pricing surcharges for tethering and MMS, on top of the already expensive data and voice charges iPhone users pay. I don't think AT&T execs wanted to stand up at WWDC and announce that.'"
The iPhone, with itâ(TM)s global reach and marketing may be the first phone that makes it obvious just how far the US is behind other parts of the world in wireless technology. I hope this opens the eyes of many people. Most people have no idea how we compare to the rest of the world, due to the AT&T and Verizon stranglehold. Those two companies buying up all the regional carriers, as well as having incompatible technologies, has lowered functionality and disrupted normal market forces.
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VZW is notorious for charging for everything .. people put up with it due to verizon has outstanding voice quality and good speed for data. As much as you all want LTE it's at least 2 years away to have adequate coverage so Apple needs to either suck it up and make a short term CDMA based iPhone or wait and make a LTE based with CDMA backband so you have coverage anywhere outside of major metro areas. Not to mention you think carriers are going to roll out faster networks and reduce data prices? Bandwidth and buildout cost money - where does this mindset that this should all be as lost cost as possible? Another thread I read on this (as there are hundreds at this point) is you have a group of people that think and react to this from the point of being a computer user and not a cellphone user. To the pc users this pricing is just not something they feel is fair, while the cellphone crowd has been used to it. I'm in the middle - seeing I don't pay a dime for mobile devices or service being a mobile professional I would never pay upwards to $100 a month. My iPhone is sim free and I only use WiFi. My Bold is on at&t and tethering is $10-12 a month last I checked for a user so they are not about to give services other devices charge for free to iPhone users. Apple should just cut ties with everyone - sell the iPhone for cost and force carriers to offer attractive plans to a growing iPhone user base - I doubt it would work or see the sales volume with $500+ devices but then it's a set price and users are free to change devices everytime Apple trots out a new model yearly.
"Just as the old AT&T stifled landline innovation in the 20th century, the new AT&T is stifling wireless innovation in the 21st."
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Does this question really have to be asked?
Of course they are charging extra for teathering, they always have with other phones. MMS will likely be "included" in the fee.
...paying extra for stuff was considered a feature by Apple users.
I don't know that they need to sell it at cost. Do you see Motorola out their hawking their phones at cost? Nope. Apple has the product. I think they need to find a loophole in their contract, and bring the iPhones to all carriers. I know I would snach one up if they were on VZW
You should write a book.
Finally, proof there IS such a thing as a dumb question! Congratulations! Was this one of the Millennium Problems?
Until they upgrade their capacity. Maybe it's that simple. Maybe it's not a conspiracy to deprive you.
AT&T has Apple by the balls, and Apple has its fanbois by the balls. All of this complaining is just a smoke screen; they will gladly pay the extortionist prices because they are Apple fanbois and are used to it. In the short term AT&T will rake it in. In the long term, who knows? Businesses today aren't really concerned with the long term anyway. With any luck AT&T HQ will be attacked by Godzilla.
What, AT&T doesn't support MMS? Wow, the US truly have fallen behind!
/ The Arrow
"How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
I have an iphone (original model), so the rate increase might affect me. The iPhone has been tremendously successful for AT&T. I can't remember the exact statistics, but something like over half of new subscribers have an iphone and they are getting 2-3x as many new subscribers as any other network. $3-5/month for MMS will not deter many people, so it will probably translate to increased profits. Iphone users are use significantly more bandwidth than other customers, so AT&T is probably going to offset some of the increased network costs. However, it's a common situation where costs for the provider go up a certain amount, x, but the costs increases by 1.5x, 2x or maybe even more. It certainly sucks for consumers, but there is certainly rationale to it. It reminds me of an intro Economics class I took. Consumer Surplus is the difference between how much the consumer values a good and how much the supplier is willing to sell it for. In this example, I would argue that most iphone customers are getting a consumer surplus, which means that AT&T could charge more and still have happy consumers (they still think the transaction is better than holding onto their money). Err, I'll qualify that statement; they will have consumers that are still happy but certainly not as happy. I don't pretend to defend AT&T or even like them, but this is a pretty straightforward business decision.
Sheesh, if you don't like AT&T's terms, then don't buy an iPhone. It's not like there aren't alternatives out there that provide nearly the same functionality.
Want to play their games? Use their apps? Get the iPod touch.
As an IT person at an organization that uses iPhones for both phone service and Exchange support, I can state definitively that the instant it is possible to part with AT&T we would do so. They SUCK.
Don't get me wrong, we are happy enough with the iPhones that we will stay with AT&T as long as the exclusive agreement lasts, but listen up AT&T, you are expendable and we would GLADLY drop your ass. We and everyone else is fed up with your BS.
Facebook is the new AOL
And they didn't trip? They must be on sure footing.
I'm putting out a "buy" signal on AT&T shares.
Of course they are going to try to reap a monetary gain off of this. I remember there was an app on the app store that helped users tether a couple of years ago that got removed.
Come on, tethering is charged for all over the U.S. cell space. Of course it will be extra.
The only real question is MMS, the rumors are that may be free but I am dubious. Since I think MMS is an ancient technology that should die, I'll continue to send images (and soon video) via email just as I do today.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Is the space pope reptilian and does he shit in the woods?
A black hole is where God divided by 0
"Just as the old AT&T stifled landline innovation in the 20th century, the new AT&T is stifling wireless innovation in the 21st."
My Palm Pre and I haven't noticed AT&T stifling much of anything... ;) What's an iPhone, again?
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
One of the rumors floating around at WWDC is that the problem actually lies with AT&Ts customer database and that iPhone accounts are hardcoded to not allow MMS or tethering right now.
Once this is out, Tether your iPhone to your work PC via USB or Bluetooth. Create a connection through the iPhone to the Internet. (With T-Mobile phones you can alread do this, but it's so expensive.)
Most companies do URL filtering at the gateway. With tethering you bypass such filtering restrictions.
In the USA;
If I browse adult stuff at work on works PC and Internet connection, work can be held libel.
If I browse adult stuff on the iPhone at work using my own Internet connect, it is less likely that work can be held libel.
But what if I provide my own wireless Internet connection and bypass the filters work has in place?
I speak as one who does the filtering, not one who is trying to bypass them.
I hate AT&T and am pretty indifferent about Apple, but how do you figure AT&T has Apple by the balls? I figure Apple has AT&T by the balls. The only reason Apple doesn't twist them off, I figure, is 1) Apple thinks it will be easier to wring a bigger percentage of iPhone revenue from AT&T only, than from multiple carriers and 2) convenience of dealing with one vendor and one network to support.
Yeah, that was an awkward moment when they were talking about tethering and totally skipped over AT&T, wasn't it?
Well, AT&T had no problem repeatedly, illegally spying on me and selling me out multiple times and then lobbying to get themselves off.
I canceled them as my home service and will never EVER use them again, which precludes an iPhone (for now).
Which is fine, because rooted Android has had tethering (bluetooth & wifi) for a while now.
This is AT&T trying to get back some leverage in their relationship with Apple.
Right now:
* If you are on AT&T already, either you have an iPhone or you want one.
* If you aren't on AT&T, the only reason to switch to it is to get the iPhone.
* The iPhone is still a great device without AT&T, but AT&T is not great without the iPhone.
By withholding tethering and MMS and not having a 7.2Mbps network in place, AT&T will try to make Apple look bad. AT&T will miss the "late-summer" "deadline" and they are gambling that pressure will grow on Apple to do something about it. Apple can't do anything about it and AT&T will use this in 2010 contract negotiations as a bargaining chip.
AT&T is wagering the backlash against Apple will be worse than the backlash against themselves and that they will get concessions from Apple that will make them the most attractive iPhone carrier even after they lose exclusivity.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
I'm a Verizon customer. They have HORRID billing practices (throw in lots of ambiguous "fees" and then wait for you to call and bitch about this $20 and that $16 charge before removing them) and downright deceptive marketing.
I have a WinMo smartphone (The HTC Mogul, and it's a pretty cool phone, feels to be about Win'95 as far as its O/S) and (of course) need a data plan. Vzw has two dataplans, the $30 "consumer" plan, and the $45 "corporate" plan. I asked what the difference is, since they both have unlimited data usage, since I didn't want to pay $15/mo more for a feature that I didn't need.
I was explained that the corporate account is designed for people who access company email and intranet applications, while the cheaper plan is for home users. I asked if they actually block connections with the $30 plan, and was assured that they did not. I went with the cheaper plan, and have had no trouble at all connecting to my corporate mail server.
In other words, Verizon wireless charges a $15/mo 'stupid tax' for anybody who wants to use a smart phone for business since their consumer plan offers the same actual functionality. I wonder just how many people are paying this $180/year 'stupid tax'?
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Alright, I understand charging extra for MMS when you have a text plan would be stupid of them, but why shouldn't they charge for tethering? They charge every other phone user extra. Since they started subsidizing the iPhone, the data plans have been the same as every other smartphone plan so why would people think its going to included on the iPhone when it's not for the other phones?
Last I checked, tethering is an extra $30 over your normal plan. If you're getting it for $10-12, then that's some legacy rate and not available for new customers.
Where I live, the best coverage is provided by AT&T and VZW. I dropped AT&T after years with them because their customer service is atrocious. They will never get any of my money again if I can help it.
My phone died with 5 months left on my contract. I went to the AT&T store to try to get a new phone. This was during the ATT -> Cingular merger. They couldn't sell me an "AT&T" phone because there were no AT&T plans available, and I couldn't replace the phone on my existing plan. OK, how about a "Cingular" phone then? "We can do that, but you would have to pay the early termination penalty on your AT&T plan." I said piss off and went home to call AT&T customer service directly, and proceeded to get the same story.
I don't understand why companies feel the need to shoot themselves in the foot like this. I was more than willing to pay for a new phone and sign a new contract, but because they were pricks, I switched companies and will never deal with them again. Oh well, just traded one greedy corporation for another, but at least the new one hasn't tried to screw me over... yet
You don't think they won't try the EXACT same thing if and when they are able to put iPhones on their network? Your point is taken, but we are not living in a properly competitive market in the US when it comes to cell phones. Like many US corporations, they aren't competiting on service and lowest prices, but competing on how much can they squeeze out of their consumers without actually improving service. There are too many barriers to switching services and they all know it.
Verizon, T-mobile, and Sprint are all watching very closely and will probably have pricing structures similar to AT+T the moment someone can switch to their service. T-mobile and Sprint might think they have iPhone killers (The G1 and the Pre), but in truth they want the iPhone on their network as well. They make no money on the hardware, and just want to charge as many fees and the highest rates possible. When one of them does it, all of them follow suit and do the same thing.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
I understand charging for tethering, that's to be expected. I'm curious about how they're going to handle MMS. Will they just include it in the cost of the $15 I'm already paying for 1500 text messages? If I understand the contract correctly, if they raise that fee it means I can opt out of my contract with no penalty because there has been a material change in the fees being charged. I don't see AT&T opening themselves up to droves of users ditching their contract in that manner. Nor do I see them having a separate "MMS Plan" for iPhone users, as that would piss off *everyone*. So, with any luck, we'll only see a new fee for tethering.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
O2 in the UK will be supporting tethering on the iPhone as an add on to their contracts.
Contracts start at 29.38 GBP (approx 48 USD) for an 18 month contract. Tethering starts at 14.68 GBP (approx 24 USD) extra for a 3GB package.
Details at: http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/internet.html
Will AT&T charge extra?
Will the sun come up tomorrow?
Verizon Wireless is going to start rolling out LTE tomorrow for testing( or at least so I've heard). ATT and Verizon both have rights to the spectrum that broadcast tv is leaving tonight, and VZW wants to get moving on it asap. They should have LTE G4 by earlier next year. ATT probably a little afterwards. Intrestingly enouhg, Apple's contract ends next year. You think they will have a LTE G4 phone ready for both ATT and VZW?
I am an AT&T wireless customer in California and currently have the ability to tether through my cell phone for internet access (but for disclosure sake, I did not buy the phone from them). I don't see how this is a technological issue, but more an accounting issue. This is a matter of AT&T making time to find the right dollar amount to add to the bill for this service that they feel is above and beyond the call of what a wireless company should offer, unless they have sold you a separate piece of hardware for this particular function. The wireless industry in the US needs much tighter regulation by the US government. I am normally against government involvement in business, but the communication companies of the US have proven time and time again that they can not be trusted to charge a fair price to the public for service.
My experience with both, and T-Mobile is that they do not offer reduced rates if you intend to use a phone you acquired from another source. Their rate plans are all designed with the intent that they should subsidize the purchase of a new phone for much less money based on the entering of a long duration contract. In effect, the telecoms are financing your cell phone-except that if you already have one, you dont get a reduced rate.
Really? Here's my recent experience:
I was recently looking to upgrade my phone. My last phone was from ATT with a two year contract, and I wanted something more updated and faster. When I signed the contract, I was able to get unlimited data added for $15/mo. (they no longer offer this plan) So I looked around for a while and debated between the subsidized Nokia E71x, or an unlocked Nokia model. Now the ATT subsidized Nokia was only $99 after rebate, with of course another two year contract. An unlocked Nokia E75 was $399 after $50 rebate.
However, the subsidized E71x required their PDA/Smartphone data package which is $30/mo - that seemed pretty ridiculous because I was currently getting unlimited data at $15/mo. After talking with an ATT rep, I found that if I bought an unlocked phone I could either grandfather in my old plan and leave it be with the data at $15/mo, or I could upgrade my plan to a current package and tack on unlimited data for only $10/mo! The reason is that ATT cannot force an unsubsidized phone to use their "special" data plans tailored for their subsidized models (please - $30/mo just because the phone has a QWERTY?)
You can do the math. Needless to say, although I've spent more money upfront on a phone, I can recover the cost before two years. If the phone lasts/stays with me longer than two years, I'll be saving even more from it.
Btw, not only are unlocked phones nicer to have in case of travelling/switching providers, you also aren't stuck with the customized provider firmware that they slap onto the phone. From past experiences I've found that the branded firmware often limits advanced functionality.
Prove it.
Telecos are still an evil forced on us by lack of choice. They still have a stranglehold on our wallets. This sort of thing is far from surprising and, let's be realistic here, it's another opportunity to squeeze money out of a popular market. People like to throw stones at the agitated Iphone crowd "If you don't like it don't buy it." "It sucks that you can't upgrade. Welcome to the world of cell phones..har har har" but shouldn't we look at this as a chance to bring the increasingly shitty business practices in this market to light? Few things cause more publicity than the public outrage that ensues when mainstream users of a wildly popular new gadget are being bent over and given the sandpaper rectal treatment. Hell, when RIM has an outage it's all over the news. Yeah, we all have to deal with shitastic contracts and abusive price gouging by cellular companies. Everyone knows it. However the opportunity to have a whole lot of people come together and go "enough is enough" doesn't come around all that often. I read about increasingly shady practices from ISPs and Telcos on a regular basis (especially on /.) Maybe we should be helping to turn Iphone whiners into a rallying cry that we're tired of being pushed around as consumers. Just my thoughts on the whole thing. Before it comes up... No I don't have an Iphone.
I love the iPhone. It's a beautiful and functional work of art. It does everything I want a webpad to do, especially now that peripherals are going to be possible. It's incredible in every way. I drool over the thought of the iPhone 3GS.
I won't pay $90/month for the privilege of having it not turn into a brick. I won't even pay $60/month. I use about 5 minutes of talk time every month, burn through 150 texts per month and might use some data on the go, but typically would be close to a WiFi hotspot if I didn't have a computer with me. If it weren't for the texts, an iPod Touch would be exactly what I want. As is, it seems as though Apple wants me to have my cell phone for texting and emergency calls and an iPod Touch for geeking out. Maybe that's fine, but I already have the phone -- the Touch will wait.
If I could buy an iPhone outright, unsubsidized, and then go to any carrier I wanted, who would then offer a "$0.40/minute voice, 200 texts, unlimited data" for $40/month, I'd do it. Strangely, Cricket has the data for 3G for $40/month, then I'd have to pick up the 200 texts for maybe $5/month. So, I'm almost there. But... AT&T wants to charge me more than twice that. No deal. Of course, Cricket would love to set me up with unlimited voice, long distance and texting for $40/month, which would knock $5 off the data plan, putting it at $85 for what AT&T would like $150 for an iPhone plan with those features.
I'm not unreasonable. I understand that AT&T needs to make some money here, but I don't want much service. Their lowest plan has 5000 night & weekend minutes -- 4999 more than I'd use -- and 450 anytime minutes. Just find a way to cut all the fat out and they'll get my money. Nickeling and diming for MMS (whatever that is, I don't even care) or tethering (I can't imagine that's more than a few people) isn't going to win a lot of customers and just scares away people like me.
Keeping my 3G for app testing. Switching to Boost Mobile to save $900 per year with tethering.
I have an original Samsung Blackjack (i607).
It's a Windows Mobile phone (5, and Samsung put out a new image with 6 for free).
My unlimited 3G data plan is $25 / month.
I can tether my phone to my PC/Laptop/whatever and use it as a modem.
This is a feature of the phone, and not the wireless carrier. The wireless carrier has no idea what's going on. My phone gets data as it would regardless of whether or not I'm tethering. My phone then sends that over USB to my device (my phone doesn't have WiFi).
I'll never be "upgrading" my contract with AT&T.
It's a flat out lie that AT&T is claiming their network does not support these features and even after the update we will have to wait a few months for them to implement them. I had a phone about a year and a half ago that was able to sent MMS. My coworkers black berry sends video, picture messages and hooks up to his laptop to provide internet. AT&T is flat out lying when they say their network is not cable of supporting these features yet. I'm getting sick and tired of their BS and I think if Apple offers this phone on another network I would be likely to jump ship because of their shenanigans.
Large corporation with near monopoly power is bad for the consumer. Film at 11.
I can tether right now on my 3G iPhone by setting up a proxy server on wifi and bridging the 3G connection.
How would my telecom even know I was viewing the 1s and 0s on my laptop screen instead of my phone's screen?
It's unethical to charge more for the same bits just because I'm viewing them on a different device. It would be like the cable company charging you more to hook your TV signal to projector instead of a TV.
Or they were told not to spoil the festive atmosphere of the party with a line that was sure to bring out the Boo Birds bigtime.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I don't think either company has the other by the balls. They're both making a ton of money off this partnership.
Is a duck's ass water-tight?
Actually they will, after they and your new carrier merge.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
This would be a net loss to Apple since they believe that anyone who wants the iPhone bad enough will switch to AT&T to get it, and Apple makes far more than the sales cost of the phone due to the "exclusivity cut" of the monthly fees that they receive from AT&T at the moment. In an open market no carrier would be cutting Apple in on their profits and Apple would not only have the App Store as their only other source of ongoing revenue, but the additional problems and headaches of each individual cell phone company wanting to block different apps from "their" phones.
The easiest solution for consumers is to realize that you really can live without an iPhone in your life.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
AT&T does not care if you "drop their ass".
Do you not think they know what they are doing? They know this very well. But they also know they are not in a competitive industry so they can do whatever they want.
And therein lies the rub. While they aren't a monopoly in technical or legal terms, they are a monopoly in practical terms. Until we reconcile that, the only thing certain is that AT&T will continue to try to fuck customers as much as they can. You would too if you had a business model like they do and a regulatory environment that allows it.
As they say....common sense isn't so common. We all know it isn't right. But nothing is being done to correct it. After 30+ years, I am not holding my breath for positive progress in this area. In other words, the beatings will continue until morale improves.
Please sign this petition for better service from AT&T. If I'm able to get enough signatures then it will be used as a source for generating bad press and hopefully putting more pressure on the death star. http://xrl.us/leashless
- Holy crap, I've got MOD points! Who thought that was a good idea.
Henry, is that you?
My guess is that AT&T won't charge for MMS messages. With every other phone that has MMS messaging, an MMS message is treated like a text message. Each is deducted from your bucket of monthly messages. It's that way for both 'dumb' phones and other PDA-phones. They used to charge separately for text and MMS messages (i.e., 200 text + 20 MMS /month for $5), but they stopped doing that and lumped them together several years ago. Charging more for iPhone users to MMS would be pretty harsh. Not that they wouldn't or couldn't do it, but it would be a step back for them in terms of plans and billing.
Tethering, on the other hand, they absolutely *will* charge for. You can opt for the "official" tethering ability on the Blackberry and other PDA data plans. It costs and additional $30 month (for 5GB of data) on top of the $30/month data plan. Considering that many of these phones have 3G, I see no reason why they'd charge differently for iPhone 3G tethering. Unless, of course, they want to.
I'm not saying that I think it's ok to charge another $30 for "more-unlimited" data. It's asinine. Unlimited data should be unlimited data. And it clearly isn't. But anyway, those "in the know" understand that it's trivial to tether _right now_ with a stock iPhone. Just pick up a Samsung Sync for $25 off eBay. Use it + your iPhone SIM + bluetooth/USB cable to connect to your favorite PC/Mac/Linux machine. Poof. 3G tethering. Yes, it's against the TOS but AT&T historically hasn't cared so long as you don't abuse it. Of course, they could crack down on this if they wanted to.... YMMV + use at your own risk.
Since they don't charge extra for MMS on non-iPhones, my guess is they won't do so for iPhones.
Since they do charge extra for tethering on non-iPhones, my guess is they will do so for iPhones.
Honestly AT&T are making some poor decisions right now. Whatever your opinion on the iPhone it has changed the game with cell phones, and has been a huge win for AT&T. I have no idea how many new customers the iPhone has given AT&T, but I am one, and most of the iPhone owners I know also switched networks so it must be a pretty substantial amount. The thing is, iPhone users have no loyalty to AT&T so when the exclusivity contract is over a huge number will jump ship. I would have thought that AT&T would be jumping through hoops to appease Apple so that when it's time to renegotiate the contract things go well for them, but as I see it now, Apple would make much more money opening the iPhone to Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint and AT&T when they are able. I would love to see the iPhone on all the networks because they we could have some competition on plans/pricing.
AT&T just screws us over whenever they can. I'm still on the first gen iPhone and to upgrade to the latest I will have to pay at least $15 more a month to get the most basic plan ($10 more for the 3g data, and $5 for the 200 text that were included in the original plan). I'm not really one to have government step in and mess with businesses, but something should be done with the wireless providers because I'm tired of being screwed over.
Look, I am not a fan of seeing laws written for every little thing out there, but it is clear that in capitalist society, that "taking advantage of opportunities to make more money" is actually part of the game and quite often results not in providing more value to customers, but taking unfair advantage of consumers.
AT&T is a communications service provider. They provide the link service connecting their wireless device to a larger global network. They also sell handsets and other gear to their wireless service customers. Both of these things are "okay with me." But what I am not okay with is their attempting to control how a handset or other gear is used and charging more for people who use their equipment to the fullest extent of its capability. I think it is just about time that some regulating agency step in to tell the wireless people what they can and cannot charge for. SMS texting is certainly one thing they shouldn't be able to charge more for. Others include tethering and MMS. If they have a "data plan" then they have paid for the right to use the data plan in any way that is suitable. SMS is an inherent feature of most mobile phone technologies protocols. Using that built-in aspect of the protocol should not represent an additional cost since that is technically a part of the service. They sure as hell can't (or won't) allow blocking the service.
Such regulations presently exist for POTS service providers and it has not proven terribly detrimental to the operability or profitability of the businesses. Wireless providers would similarly not suffer under such regulation.
I agree! I'd rather be bound by data usage caps than pay more money for what I do with that data.
I'm sure both are making lots of money and are at least marginally satisfied. The point is who has power in the relationship.
AT&T could tell Apple to screw off, in which case they would lose iPhone exclusivity. Plenty of other carriers would beat Apple's door down to get either future model exclusivity, or at least availabilty on their network.
That would substantially reduce AT&T profit because there are plenty of iPhone users ready to switch carriers, and plenty potential users who won't even consider AT&T but would consider an iPhone on T*mobile or others.
Apple could tell AT&T to screw off and you'd have the same result.
Who has the power in this relationship?
Tethering and MMS cost extra on every other device that AT&T provides service for. What makes this one any different?
Like some other posters on this thread, I find it sad that the iPhone is just now getting around to supporting these features.
I recently purchased a Blackberry 9000 (Bold) through AT&T and it does both. I can share my phone's data plan with other devices via USB or Bluetooth. Piece of cake. It does, however, cost an extra $30/mo for the ability to tether it. Sucks, but that is half the cost of a standalone data card.
Also, the author of the story missed the reason that Verizon and the iPhone didn't happen. Verizon is a CDMA carrier, whereas AT&T is GSM. There is no such thing as a CDMA iPhone. Everyone may bitch about AT&T, but they are the only carrier other than T-Mobile in the United States that CAN support the iPhone. AT&T's 3G coverage leaves much to be desired, but it is a hell of a lot better than T-Mobile's. To make things worse, T-Mobile also has no plan that allows tethering of its devices. It is prohibited in the TOS.
Don't get your hopes up for a CDMA version any time soon. The problem with CDMA and the iPhone is that CDMA radios are larger and consume far more power than GSM radios. Think of the battery life that you have with your current iPhone, and cut it in half.
The Motorola RAZR is a prime example of a device that was nice on GSM, but the CDMA versions should have never made it out the door. Once I asked a friend how long the battery lasted in her Verizon RAZR v3. She said "Oh, usually till lunch time". haha!
Out of order? Fuck! Even in the future nothing works! - Dark Helmet (Rick Moranis) "Spaceballs"
Guess they must think they have enough golden eggs and feel like a feast. Enjoy that goose! Once eaten, it's gone for good.
Yes, I imagine it's fantastically expensive to get started with the cell tower infrastructure. And yes, as soon as they become a network, Apple won't have too many mobile partners anymore.
On the other hand, Apple loves selling the whole widget. And they certainly wouldn't mind the margins on SMS. And they have a big pile of money in the bank. And they must have some decent infrastructure to handle selling the music and apps.
I'm completely ignorant on the details, but I wonder if the expiration of the AT&T exclusivity doesn't mean doesn't mean they hop to Verizon, but try to do it themselves. In theory, they could even make the iPhone 8 Xtreme hop to 802.11(x) networks. Imagine if all those Apple Base Stations got turned into microcells in a software update.
So are these crazy ramblings? Well, yes. ;) But tell me why they might be true or false.
It's my understanding that Apple gave up it's cut of the monthly charges in exchange for AT&T's offering the "subsidy".
Very often, people confuse simple with simplistic. The nuance is lost on most. - Clement Mok
With unlimited dataplans the laptop use dominates traffic volume. I do not remember now exact figures, but in one European network more than 95% of traffic volume is from laptops. The network has unlimited dataplans starting from 9.95€
It is funny to see US carriers to cripple phones to save their business model.
So just to take a dispassionate look at this.
First, AT&T's network supports MMS and tethering just fine. I use connection share on my Windows Mobile smart phone via Bluetooth all the time. No problems. I send MMS on the AT&T network all the time as well. So I'm not sure why there are so many stories that suggest the AT&T network is incapable of doing this. I'm not sure about the HSDPA, but for GPRS... there really isn't any effective way for AT&T to prevent you from using connection sharing. And you can put any GSM phone on their network.
Second, how many iPhones are on AT&T's network? Three and a half million, maybe? With over 75 million subscribers the idea that 4% are going to overload the MMS or GPRS infrastructure is crazy. That stuff is so over-built at AT&T that they hardly sweat. Now, RF capacity might be a different story... but I rarely see any articles even mention that. And its hardly an iPhone specific problem.
AT&T definitely benefits from its deal with Apple. AT&T definitely wants to maintain an exclusive deal. So how could they be dictating to Apple? To me it looks like Apple is the ones who either want rules changed for their benefit or some other concession. You build a phone to the GSMA spec, AT&T can't stop you from allowing people to share the GPRS connection. You can definitely turn MMS service on and off per MSISDN... but it has nothing to do with the device. Why do it?
None of it makes economic sense. Generally, mobile providers are selling phones at a loss or at cost if you don't sign up for a contract. I don't see how AT&T has an interest in crippling Apple phones. All they want is the subscribers. The more people who think an iPhone is good to by... the better.
That's public information... for the whole company, not specific items like SMS, etc....
For example, here are some "profit margin" numbers:
Verizon 6.4%
AT&T 10.12%
for comparison
Apple 14.9%
Microsoft 25%
and something boring, like food, ADM is at 2.7%
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
...and it will be all Apple's fault for not opening the iphone up to other vendors. Apple needs to take a lesson from companies whose technologies died because they didn't open up the tech for all to play. IBM and - oh, wait, Apple - have both done stuff like this and suffered in the past.
My source that works at AT&T said that MMS will be part of your monthly fees that you already pay. So from what I gather, there will be no new charges for MMS.
Q: Will AT&T Charge Extra For [...]?
A: Yes.
Next question.
VZW is notorious for charging for everything ..
Sometimes they even charge you an additional 99 cents for each penny.
The easiest solution for consumers is to realize that you really can live without an iPhone in your life.
That's like saying dealing with the TSA is such a headache that it's easier for travelers to realize they can really live without flying. Yes, it's technically true, but it's a silly philosophy to live by. Pretty much everything has a downside, an annoyance, etc. The trick is to find the things that have the better mix of upsides and downsides.
O2 are charging £14.68 a month for tethering, with a 3GB cap or £29.36 for 10GB. It's not available on Pay & Go. http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/internet.html
"Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance." - G.K. Chesterton
Does the Touch do email?
It most certainly does. The iPod touch is, for all intents and purposes, the iPhone without the phone part and the cellular data. If you've got a Wifi signal, you're online.
I have a first-gen Touch, and I'm very happy with it, though I still drool over an iPhone (but am put off by the rather high monthly prices).
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
"Will AT&T Charge Extra f..."
YES
You forgot point 3, money. At least on the original iPhones someone backtracked from Apple's quarterly earnings report to an estimate of $50/month received *per*iPhone* by Apple from AT&T. AT&T were pitched, realized the iPhone was going to be a money maker and bought the exclusivity. Apple couldn't really care less customers are locked in to AT&T, they're raking in the dough and selling iPhones like hotcakes.
I hate AT&T and, until the iPhone, have never willingly had service from AT&T (the one time it happened (unwillingly) was rectified on the following billing cycle...). I bought an iPhone knowing full well it would result in a contract with the evil and hated AT&T. Up to then I had no cellphone and my wife had service with Sprint -- 6 years on the same phone and very happy. But AT&T's estimate was right -- the iPhone changed the game and is bringing them increased revenue (in this case two iPhones plus service plans), including from people who would never otherwise do business with them. What they pay to Apple is just the "tax" for the increased revenue.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It's Telecommunications Ass Rapeâ in the US.
This isnt final yet- but the iphone data plan will go down in price, and tethering will be an option if you add tethering to it. It will increase the total price back to either what it is now, or slightly higher.
Yes, I do work for at&t, but no, I wont be able to provide any further information, or confirmation, this is just what they've been discussing.
Its not about AT&T wanting to charge for MMS, its about the fact that their MMSC servers arent up to the task of all those iPhone users sending MMSs. And the fact that there is no easy way to disable the MMS redirect only for phones that have MMS support.
Tuesday's launch of the new iPhone at WWDC
Actually, that was Monday.
can kiss my ass!
I have to admit this made me chuckle, however I still prefer my play on it: "Does the Pope shit in the woods?"
you pay for unlimited Internet access already. How can they charge you extra for using their sanctioned device's built-in functionality?
That seems an awful lot like double-dipping.
I can already tether with my G1, but what's the point when T-mobile's 3g coverage is like Swiss cheese. Slow Swiss cheese.
They're using their grammar skills there.
In the UK, o2 are charging 4 regular text messages for every MMS and the absolutely ridiculous fee of a minimum of £14.95 for tethering with a 3 Gig allowance. What if I want to tether occasionally on the rare occasion I don't have WiFi?