A Supervolcano Beneath Mt. St. Helens?

We've discussed the supervolcano beneath Yellowstone a few times here (not going to blow, 2004; going to blow, 2008). Now scientists are pondering whether a large area of conductive material beneath Mt. St. Helens might contain enough magma that the area could be classed a supervolcano. The jury is still out on this one. Reader nhytefall sends us a New Scientist progress report. "Magma can be detected with a technique called magnetotellurics, which builds up a picture of what lies underground by measuring fluctuations in electric and magnetic fields at the surface. The fields fluctuate in response to electric currents traveling below the surface, induced by lightning storms and other phenomena. The currents are stronger when magma is present, since it is a better conductor than solid rock. ... [M]easurements revealed a column of conductive material that extends downward from the volcano. About 15 km below the surface, the relatively narrow column appears to connect to a much bigger zone of conductive material. This larger zone was first identified in the 1980s by another magnetotelluric survey, and was found to extend all the way to beneath Mount Rainier 70 km to the north-east, and Mount Adams 50 km to the east. It was thought to be a zone of wet sediment, water being a good electrical conductor. ... [Some researchers] now think the conductive material is more likely to be a semi-molten mixture. Its conductivity is not high enough for it to be pure magma.. so it is more likely to be a mixture of solid and molten rock."

Comments

Mount Helen?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, most slashdotters would mount anyone with that name.

Re:Mount Helen?

[Anonymous Coward]

Chances are that they'll forget to use sudo the first time...

Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[PotatoFiend]

But Democratic leaders in Congress -- they rejected this approach. Instead of trusting us to make wise decisions with our own money, they passed the largest government spending bill in history, with a price tag of more than $1 trillion with interest. While some of the projects in the bill make sense, their legislation is larded with wasteful spending. It includes ... $140 million for something called "volcano monitoring." Instead of monitoring volcanoes, what Congress should be monitoring is the eruption of spending in Washington, D.C.

-- Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Yep. And next time Louisiana gets slammed by a big storm (and it will) Jindal or his successor will go running to the Federal government for help, all the while whining that not enough was done to predict or prepare for the event. But volcanoes? Pffft. Everyone who has to worry about that is a damnyankee anyway.

(Of course, if it weren't for those damnyankees, Jindal himself would never have had a prayer of getting elected county dogcatcher in any ex-Confederate state, much less governor ... but we're not supposed to mention that either.)

Louisiana politics have always been deeply corrupt, but they used to be relatively sane. I'm not sure what happened.

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Wow, parent got modded troll pretty fast. Apparently the Republican mod-bombers are out in force.

It is a fact that Jindal, governor of a state (Louisiana) which has suffered mightily from natural disasters (hurricanes) in the recent past and will inevitably do so in the future, criticized Federal spending on a program designed to predict and prepare for natural disasters (volcanoes) which could easily be as devastating if not more so. It is also a fact that Jindal made this a partisan issue. Pointing this out does not constitute a troll.

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[ultranova]

Leave the politics out of it, and let's just consider MONEY. If those bastards want to live in a hurricane zone, below sea level, fine. Let them. But not on my nickel.

It's interesting that libertarians and other assorted nutjobs always point out that no one has to live in hurricane zone or below sea level, yet fail to realize that they themselves don't have to live in a civilized, cooperative society. They can move to Somalia or some other governmentless hellhole and be free of taxes and all that they imply.

But of course following his own advice would inconvenience the nutjob himself, rather than some unknown people.

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[jabithew]

Why do you consider facts to be "right-wing"? You must then consider left-wingers to live in a fantasy world?

Interesting you mention this. I'm just reading Alan Sokal's Beyond the Hoax, where he criticises the liberal-left academic post-modernists for trying to undermine facts. Of course, he then goes on to criticise the fundamentalist right for the same thing, and notes the irony that the latter wouldn't have been able to succeed without the groundwork of the former.

So there was a period (pre-Bush, essentially) where the literary academic establishment did consider facts to be a right-wing anti-progressive and revisionist construct, or some other such spew of verbal diarrhea. Guess what goes around comes around after all.

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[blincoln]

If those bastards want to live in a hurricane zone, below sea level, fine. Let them. But not on my nickel.

How would you feel about dealing with the massive economic hit to the country involved in all of the people living in similar areas relocating? Whether the government funded it or not, you'd be talking about bringing huge pieces of industry to a standstill for years.
Oh, and don't forget about the ruin you'd wreak on the country by shutting down all of the ports on two of the three coasts. Nearly anywhere that is capable of being a useful port is also going to be victim to natural disasters of some kind - whether it's hurricanes in the South or earthquakes in the West. But, you know, while you're relocating all those millions of people, maybe you can have them dig a container-ship-sized canal to Idaho. Not many options for that in the South, since (AFAIK) most of the states between the South and e.g. Michigan (which already has water access) are hit by tornadoes.

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[Jane Q. Public]

I misunderstood the poster's intent... but it is an interesting topic.

Without claiming that either side is correct politically, I will say that it is my experience that those on the Left, relatively speaking, tend to be more concerned with idealism than with verifiable facts. Which is a very dangerous thing to let loose on the American people.

On the other hand, idealism or no, the Right has done considerable damage to the American people and their society over the last 8 or 10 years itself. So... it has just been one variety of bad after another.

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[FlyingBishop]

It's called Keynesian economics. When the economy is in a slump, you should employ people doing whatever work that you can think of. Especially random, somewhat questionable research. Most of the major breakthroughs have been the result of random, somewhat questionable research.

Furthermore, people need to quit whining about 'pork' in the stimulus bill. A stimulus bill is by definition pork. If there wasn't pork in it, it wouldn't be a stimulus bill. It would be an energy spending initiative, or a bank bailout, or something like that. If you are against pork, you are categorically against stimulus bills. That's fine, but just say that any stimulus is a bad idea, don't nitpick out the parts you think aren't worthwhile.

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[Anonymous Coward]

Left winger: States a position.
Right winger: States a differing opinion.
Left winger: repeats some unverifiable "facts" he read in some pamphlet.
Right winger: criticize the methodology of the facts. states that they are well known as urban legends even though he didn't even listen to the facts. Then proceed to make up some other facts that make the left winger visibly upset.
Left winger: Accuses the right winger of making it up, or quoting "Right wing conspiracy talking points".
Right winger: Provides numerous sources that cite each each pretending the other has collected the hard data.
Left winger: Calls right winger a racist, hate monger, bigot, homophobe.
Right winger: Call left winger an appeaser, a traitor and a spawn of Satan.
Left winger: proceed to form an argument ad consequentium
Right winger: proceed to form a straw man.
Left winger: proceed to cite every logical fallacy then states that all right winger arguments are among those fallacies. Fails to understand he also committed those fallacies.
Right winger and left winger: start insulting each other. Get their adrenaline hate fix for the day.

fixed

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[stonewallred]

I think you are quite ignorant of Libertarian philosophy.We advocate a return to Constitutional government, not lawless anarchy as you imply. OIf course if you are a left wing or right wing, such a return would scare the shit out of you, as there would be no more BS taxes taken from people with the threat of death or imprisonment, and the votes would stop rolling in because you could not promise the "people" anything. I spent 45 minutes carrying on a conversation with the Libertarian candidate for governor in NC this past election cycle. When as the last time you did that with a republican or democratic candidate? The last time I spoke with a candidate for the House of representatives, a republican, I got about 30 seconds. fact is that Libertarian policy requires people to be responsible for themselves, and take ownership of their decisions, good or bad, and that scares the shit out of the left wing and right wing, because with that, they are unable to scare, threaten and bribe the "people" into voting for them. But YMMV, and good luck with you in the upcoming freefall of the US dollar, as inflation and hyper-inflation is right around the corner. And if you doubt that, look at the market data for annuities, it is enough to make you wish you owned gold.

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[stonewallred]

there are some of us down here that don't believe in the invisible sky wizard. Don't write us all off cowboy.

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[Eternauta3k]

you should employ people doing whatever work that you can think of. Especially random, somewhat questionable research. Most of the major breakthroughs have been the result of random, somewhat questionable research

Monkeys with multiple asses?

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[Roxton]

So, while I don't have ANY sympathy for the flood victims

Tell me, how long do you have to sit in intellectual purgatory, destroying all cognitive dissonance in favor of easy-answer ideologies, before you're capable of writing something like this? Only on Slashdot could such socially and emotionally retarded drivel get modded up. Seriously, go fuck yourself.

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[metaforest]

I lived in Seattle for 12 years and during that time.... and every time I laid eyes on Mt. Rainier my hind brain went fraking ballistic.

something deep within me said, " Get the fuck out of here... You shouldn't be any where near that mountain!!!"

I can't explain that feeling. For most of my time living there I believed that volcano to be extinct. I never even looked into it. Much later I did and found that it is not extinct... or dormant or sleeping.... it's considered ACTIVE.... so is there something to it?

I don't live in flood plains.... I grew up in Earthquake regions and have been through some of the worst in the last 40+ years... and I am still here to tell those stories.

IMO: It is a form of ignorance that typical humans will move their families onto a flood plane and blindly trust that their personal relationship with God will protect them from their ignorance of nature's laws, facts to the contrary not withstanding.

OTOH: There is no safe places on this planet. Every possible substrate that is conducive to human well being has some form of devastating environmental feature that promises one might make an untimely exit at Nature's whim....

*shrug

There is no free lunch.

Re:Gov. Jindal isn't worried

[Jane Q. Public]

You call it "socially and emotionally retarded". I call it "social darwinism". The terminally stupid get culled. We have been doing that for millions of years. Oh... but in just the last 20 or so, some pampered know-it-alls seem to think they have a better answer. And I call that hypocritical hogwash.

Hey... don't go living below the waterline, and I'll never have to refuse to bail you out. Sound fair?

Don't panic

[Lost Penguin]

It connects to Yellowstone, and will soon be a second moon.

Re:Don't panic

[ionix5891]

thats no moon

If the west coast blows up

[kbrasee]

can I have your stuff?

hmm if it did blow

[Anonymous Coward]

The force could be enough to take out all the chairs in the Microsoft campus, regardless of what news was being digested by the CEO at the time.

pffft! It's not "Supervolcano"

[Itninja]

I did a little reading under Supervolcano on Wikipedia and it says "...supervolcano was not a technical term used in volcanology. The term megacaldera is sometimes used.."

You got that? It's a Megacaldera guys. Only total n00bz call it a supervolcano! I bet you guys called Yoda a Jedi Knight too....everybody knows he was a Jedi MASTER.

....hehe...supervolcano.

Re:pffft! It's not "Supervolcano"

[maroberts]

Presumably before he was a Master he was a Knight. Once a Master always a Master but once a night is enough....

Re:pffft! It's not "Supervolcano"

[syousef]

"...supervolcano was not a technical term used in volcanology. The term megacaldera is sometimes used.."

It's a supervolcano if it wears it's underwear on the outside.

Re:pffft! It's not "Supervolcano"

[dimeglio]

In my opinion, all volcanoes are all "super." Monsters like Mt. Etna and Vesuvius would be typical in size. Super would be what? The size of Cuba, Iceland, Tasmania - that would be super. How about exovolcanoes (or is it exoplanetary volcanoes)? Do you use the same scale?

I suppose that since the Mt. St-Helens is in the USA, it must be a super something.

Re:pffft! It's not "Supervolcano"

[Mandelbrot-5]

The point is that the very large and active Mt. St Helens could be just a small vent for a much larger volcano. One who's crater / caldera is close to 2000 square miles. If true, something like this going off would make Krakatoa look like firecracker. As in, all of the US and a good chuck of Canada and Mexico covered with ash.

Volcano!

[JWSmythe]

    There's always a volcano about to erupt, or a fault going to shatter in an earthquake, or a comet that's going to smash into the earth, or a polar ice cap that's going to melt. It's always something.

    Wake me up when Vesuvius erupts; California becomes "the Island previously known as California"; New York is under water; or an planet splitting meteor strikes. Otherwise, it's not news, it's fear mongering. Wolf has been cried too many times for people to be concerned any more.

    I've lived in Florida for years. Hurricanes are far more likely to blow through than a volcano destroying a vast swath of the US, yet seasoned residents (those of us who have lived through more hurricanes than we can count) just make sure we have some food and water at home, and a way to cook. Live on high ground, and cross your fingers a tornado doesn't take your house away. Tornadoes during hurricanes are very likely, but the square footage of land destroyed (houses, upturned cars, etc) are so small compared to the square miles of potential damage area that you may as well play the lottery and expect to win.

Re:Volcano!

[Anonymous Coward]

I suggest you actually read the summary. It doesn't say that Mount St. Helens is going erupt and destroy life as we know it, or anything like that. It says "Hey guys, what if that large area under the ground isn't actually water like we thought and is actually semi molten rock?". To which the answer is, "Well that might mean we need to classify it differently." That's it. No grand and dire warnings, suggest an idea that would further our understanding of at least a piece of the earth.

But don't let me interrupt your off topic rant.

Re:Volcano!

[JWSmythe]

    Actually, yes, I was woken up last time a Category 5 hurricane was about to hit. We don't panic because it's reported "This could be the worst hurricane season ever!" That's not news either, it's fear mongering. It's something to worry about when there's really a storm coming, and you may have a day or few days notice. It may be a Category 2 hurricane now, but when it arrives it could be just a tropical depression or a Category 5 hurricane. It may turn towards us. It may turn away from us. When it looks likely that it will hit, that's when we take precautions.

    When Hurricane Andrew came our way, we stored some water, make sure we had food and cooking supplies, and locked down everything we needed to. We were within the storm, but not near the eye. Not that the eye matters that much, these storms are wicked most of the way across.

    We watched Hurricane Isabel, but it turned away from us.

    Hurricane Ivan wasn't much to see when we got it.

    Hurricanes Katrina and Rita danced around us, so we were lucky.

    Hurricane Wilma wasn't terribly strong when it got here.

    A few years ago, I believe 2005, we had 4 hurricanes back to back. I was living out of state, but I had to fly back for work. My first flight was delayed because of the hurricane. They reopened the airport, and I caught the second flight. About a day after I landed, the next storm came in, and low lying areas were evacuated. We were moving equipment between data centers, and had just gotten it all inside when the edge of the storm hit. I called a provider to have a circuit turned up, and they asked "you do realize you're in the middle of a hurricane, right?" I had a 4wd rental SUV (with insurance, of course), food and water were secured at home. Power and traffic lights were spotty throughout the area. I received one phone call for an evacuation. Someone I knew had a Porsche, and couldn't get down his street because of the flooding and trees down. Flood waters were starting to come up, and the wind was driving the rain through his window seals, so the whole West side of his house was soaked. I drove Tampa to Clearwater, got him out of his home and to another friends place on higher ground. It's interesting driving in a hurricane across a bridge. It's hard to see, the winds push you around, the waves are crashing over the side of the bridge, but there are no cars on the road. :) It was us and police looking for people in trouble to help out. If we had seen a stopped car and someone trying to get our attention, we would have picked them up and taken them to safety, just as the police would have.

    Hurricanes are probably one of the best times, because most people turn to each other. The police aren't out trying to write traffic tickets. They're evacuating people from their homes (either mandatory or on calls for help), and looking for people stuck on the side of the road, or in other trouble. No questions are asked, they are just helped. Friends help out friends. People on higher ground give those on lower ground a place to stay until it's over. When its over, neighbors help neighbors with anything they can.

    During Hurricane Elena (1985), because it lingered off shore from us, the lowland houses flooded. We lived inland, and had 8 or so people staying with us for several days. After we lost power, food was cooked on the BBQ. Everyone was happy and fairly comfortable. 3 tornadoes hit our property, one on the house directly, and two uprooted trees and tossed them. When it was safe to go home (i.e., the flood waters had gone down enough to drive home), they went home and started cleaning up. Our only damage was a destroyed 50' TV antenna. The low lying houses weren't all so lucky.

Re:Volcano!

[ultranova]

A miscategorized geological formation isn't newsworthy unless they're trying to imply something else. It would have just been changed on a few note sheets and ignored.

This isn't a generic news site, thought; it's "news for nerds". And the story is not about a miscategorization, it's about new findings about a major geological feature.

Re:Volcano!

[True Grit]

A miscategorized geological formation isn't newsworthy unless they're trying to imply something else.

Its the corrected categorization that is doing the new "implying" here. The implication that St. Helens may be just one vent from a much larger super-caldera structure is what is significant. Now, whether its true or not is something else, I'm a little skeptical because it doesn't sound to me like the caldera structure at Yellowstone, but whatever...

And no, a super-caldera eruption is not "just another volcano going off". Its a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. Super-caldera eruptions are automatically global, catastrophic events simply due to the amount of energy released by them, usually 3+ orders of magnitude greater than a single volcanic event, and the worst of them can be globally life-threatening.

The last time Mt. St. Helen's blew its top in 1980, it ejected ~1.2 km3 of material (cubic kilometers). The last time the Yellowstone caldera blew its top around 600,000 years ago, it ejected ~1,000.0 km3 of material. And the really bad one from the link above (Toba Lake, Sumatra, around 75,000 years ago)? That one ejected ~2,800.0 km3 of material. See the difference? :)

Fortunately, the only good thing about them is that they're rare. Unfortunately, they're very big firecrackers when they go off. How big? If the Yellowstone caldera decides to clear its throat real good in our lifetime, then you being in Florida won't automatically make you safe... That's how big. :)

Wake me

[icebike]

Wake me when Rainer and Adams all start smoking at the same time.

Otherwise, in people as well as volcanoes, an occasional good healthy belch relieves a lot of pressure.

So, to summarize recent science news on Slashdot:

[John Hasler]

If the supernova don't get us the supervolcano will!

Re:Just terrific

[MarkvW]

Look on the bright side. A volcano just does what it does. It won't try to hold a city hostage like professional sports teams do!

Re:He Was Exactly Right

[PotatoFiend]

It can be reasonably argued either way as to whether funding for volcano monitoring belonged in that particular bill (I urge you to consider how the economy might be affected by a volcano-scale natural disaster -- the possible nullification of any progress stemming from the bill's other economic recovery provisions).

More poignant however was the obvious subtext of Jindal's message, which was mockery of science. You probably wouldn't agree, but it'd certainly be worth my taxpayer dollars to fund a permanent residence for Gov. Jindal at the summit of Mt. St. Helens.

Re:He Was Exactly Right

[chefshoemaker]

You insensitive Bizatch!!! I happen to be a Volcano Monitoring Technician. I sit on a rock in Yellowstone for 8 hrs. day, 5 days a week, concentrating on the vibrations coming through the ground and the effects of the magnetic waves on various metal objects. My homeless technical training makes me ideal for this position, so said PrezBO

Re:Lava life?

[BPPG]

Not to be a nit-picker, but lava and magma aren't actually the same thing; lava is magma flowing on the Earth's surface. The properties of the two are the same, aside from lava being surrounded by relatively cool air, and magma being surrounded by insulating earth.

I know that doesn't really answer your question, but consider this; It's not lava yet.

Re:Lava life?

[awarrenfells]

Indeed, sir! Indeed.

I know jack all about geology and vulcanology. Thanks for the info though. ^_^

HOUSE FOR SALE

[kibrenner]

Scenic Blue zone location... peek a boo view of the mountain... today... OK so I live between St Helens and Rainier... (the mountains, not the towns) I guess if the megacaldera DOES go.. I won't have to worry about the value of my home..... Back to mowing....

Re:He Was Exactly Right

[UziBeatle]

Larry blurbed: /quote larry bagina (561269) Alter Relationship on Saturday June 13, @03:25PM (#28322177) Journal

Stimulus? bwahaha. Earlier this week, Caterpillar (bulldozers and stuff) announced 66 more employees would be laid off, on top of the 400 or so in the last 9 months. This is noteworthy because they (and Barack Obama) had previously stated that the stimulus would prevent this from happening /endquote

  BXZZXT> WRONG.

  Despite the rest of your post being full of goodness and all the above 'fact' is a lie and distortion. It is true that the high lord of the progressive party, Barak Obama, asserted what
you say. What is not true is that the head of Caterpillar thought the same way. After that speech where Barack sandbagged the CEO of Caterpillar, the CEO later said he was 'misled' by the Obama brown shirt pre team (brown shirts my interpretation) and said that is was HIGHLY LIKELY more layoffs were to be coming for Caterpillar. He said the stimulus would have LITTLE effect on what
Caterpillar would have to do to survive the upcoming year.

  Don't believe me? Look it up. THis was widely reported in the media unless your main source
of news is CNN or ABC/NBC/CBS and the like.

  No need to spread the lies of Obama progressives and stuff them into the mouths of people who never asserted such lies and no need to allow such lies to promulgate in public.

    I'd add to your other good ideas it would have made more sense to give every American rich or poor a 70 percent tax break this year (or last year actually) and issue huge rebate checks.
  And yes, GM and Chrysler should have been allowed to go Bankrupt along with BOA and the rest of the charlatans but 'they' do not listen to the likes of us.

Re:I don't think this is a supercaldera.

[synesis]

I live between Mt. Adams and Mt Hood. If you look around the area there are many extensive lava beds and lava tubes. The walls of the Columbia Gorge consist of multiple 50 ft. thick lava layers - just saying. IANAG