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German Parliament Enacts Internet Censorship Law
TheTinyToon writes that by a vote of 389 to 128, "the proposed censorship law to block child porn has been passed by the German government. Not surprisingly, a member of the conservative party (CDU) announced plans to also check if the law could be extended to include so-called 'killer games' like Counterstrike, only two hours after the law was passed. More [in German] on netzpolitik.org."
519009
Yay me!
some of the blocks have a very phallic shapes. Like for instance:
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Eew... Think of the children!
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
This is exactly why we have to ensure this never happens in Australia, even if the government wants to push ahead. Viva la revolution?
Living in Australia I have the joy of having games censored for the localised version. Violent movies are still widely available in comparison, why is it that the games are always targeted and not the movies. There has been plenty of films i've watched over the years I wouldn't suggest to under 18's but for them it is suprisingly easy to hire said movies from the local video shop.
"Once the legislation passes, police officials will have to draw up a list of web sites that feature child pornography and send the list to all telecommunications companies." Might as well just make the list public knowledge. Anyone with the inclination to view the material will be able to find it easier with any list made.
I've got 101 mod points and you can't have them!
What stops a politician from the "opposite" side from simply stating:
"I'm against this law because you'll use it to cover more content than discussed. We all see your lies."
Then, when the law passed, it could go unchanged, and thus useless, or be used as intended (to push some agenda) and the politician could happily point to the previous declarations:
"As everyone already predicted, it was all a lie and they just wanted the law for their personal use."
Please don't let the response be "nobody cares about truths, people just vote the most charismatic guy".
If only Germany had protected its citizens from violent video games in the 1930's, imagine how many lives would have been saved!
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
In the movie Euro Trip there was a scene where the guy goes to meet his German girfriend and a boy does the Hitler salute with the moustache.
It raised an uproar, especially in Germany and many German politicians swore up and down that they had excercised the Ghost of Hitler.
Have they?
If i remember the massive book "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", Nazi movies in theaters were do devoid of audience that Wilhelm Frick, the Minister of the Interior, issued a stern warning against "treasonable behavior on the part of cinema audiences."
First you start by censoring what's available. Then you start by slowly ratcheting up the local propaganda, and then you outlaw any and all unapproved broadcasts and networks.
German politicians are treading the thinnest line possible between Liberty and Hitler.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
CP
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation"
I'll leave you to guess who I'm quoting.
I'll see your hokum and raise you a boondoggle.
It indeed may be able to reduce the amount of child porn watched in Germany. The problem is that once something has been censored or blocked, if someone wants to get their hands on that censored material, they will find a way. Child porn is not very "mainstream" and I'm pretty sure that quite many of those who are watching it are able to find a new way of watching it. Be it different sites (like you all know, the internet has a habit of rerouting itself once a part of it has been cut. I don't think that this will happen though), proxies or real children (not a likely outcome though). The thing I'm worried about is the fact that once you started censoring something, the threshold to censor something else falls. Once you have started, you may easily start censoring some other things, just like those killer games that were mentioned. First the porn, then the games and what next?
What is the deal with these people? What is their major problem with video games? Did their digital mothers get spawn camped and teabagged when they were children?
Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
If you still needed proof that our political system is crap, this is it.
The vast majority of politicians who voted "yes" on this topic could not even explain the base technologies if you asked them. Nor do they understand how their censorship law works, or what its consequences are. Despite having this pointed out to them repeatedly.
It's becoming rapidly clear, especially with the economic crisis happening at the same time, that we're ruled by people who're simply not good at ruling, nor much else for that matter. Their expertise is in politics, i.e. getting into power, not in anything that matters once you are in power.
If anyone shoots them all, I'll be there to applaud. And yes, I write that with my name on it. These people have nothing to lose and they act like it. While I'm not for violence, I'm starting to believe that at least the danger of violence and personal consequences is required or else our politicians will destroy us all - or, if you think about climate change, kill us all.
Funny how it takes but weeks to throw billions at mismanaged banks, but it's taken years and no end in sight to agree on matters vital to the survival of the damn planet.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Please consider this: Just one really egregious kiddieporn case could result in similar legislation here. How many politicians dare to vote against ForTheChildren legislation? Throw in right wing militia, terrorist, and "hate" sites in general for the win.
/. readers, how many people really care? DMCA? Patriot Act? ACTA secrecy?
I think I'm preaching to the choir here, but other than
In this news, we see the real issue: That the slippery slope of making some information illegal is too steep. The primary issue that free global flow of information will do is dramatically reduce the need for centralized government power at the country level, in many ways. If people allow their governments to start making some information illegal, even for good reasons, then the norm of censorship will be accepted and expanded.
Frankly, the main driver behind making such images illegal seems to be that we don't have the resources or the effort to catch people who actually harm children - so instead they make the next closest thing police *can* find illegal. This is lazy police work.
I believe that a free and open society would work best if there were no restrictions on *access* to information once it is available. Laws would only restrict behaviors: The bits are not the issue, human behavior is. Thus, no image or stream of bits would ever be illegal (as I see it), only *actions* that people take that directly result in harm to other people. This would make the job of police much harder, yes, but the benefits become obvious quickly when reading this news.
3 days? One week?
And it's only DNS based AFAIK.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
The law only suggests DNS-blocking, but it allows the ISPs to use other methods too.
Germany is a free and open society and doesn't require censorship. Our leaders are wise and rightful.
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corrected version, publication approved by C102211 on 19.06.2009
And what about whitelisting, when the IP is recycled? I'm worried that the germans will look to China when they see that this project fails....
The golden era is over. We're all doomed.
The exact reverse can be argued. Due to the empowerment the internet has given to Joe Public, the enabling technologies which continue to come to market and the explosion in independent self expression Governments around the world are panicking into passing legislation which they hope will get the Genie back in the bottle. But frankly, they're pissing in the wind. Human ingenuity will win out over the nay sayers maybe for the first time in history because the development of tools is in OUR hands and the infrastructure is essentially beyond the control of individual governments.
If anyone shoots them all, I'll be there to applaud. And yes, I write that with my name on it.
They may as well start rounding up all the Toms now, just in case.
The underlying problem with this law is not limited to Germany: The list of what's to be censored is secret and solely controlled by the German federal police. No one can see this list (after all, it contains links to CP). This is almost the same as the french HADOPI law, where no judge was to be asked and no judgement necessary, before they cut your internet connection (while obliging you to still pay for it)...
I eman, let us have a look at COPA and other similar dumb stuff, or gay mariage law. it is all about politic making something useless but targeted at their audience to look as if they did something useful. Since most people don't look past the face value... But here I think this is mostly because people did not even knew about that law. I talked about my colleagues on this in germany. None KNEW about that law. But even when I talked about it to them, they could not care less. Why ? They never use child porn, never use porn, or "violent" video game. I mean, those are the same people which wanted to forbid PAINT BALL.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
... why the PIRATE party (I hope they come up with a snazzy backronym for that) can expect to get my vote in the elections next fall.
"With 389 yes, 128 no and 18 withheld votes the government passed the so called "Zensursula" bill today with 535 politicians voting in total. Now the plans to repeal on grounds of unconstitutionality begin.
/. yesterday and gives a nice overview of
the things that were done to try to fight this bill. The first paragraph reads:
It's a black day for the digital community and will no doubt have repercussions from tech-savvy voters for the two ruling parties in the upcoming elections.
We've achieved quite a bit with the #zensursula campaign and we can continue to build on this, get better at spreading our message and eventually change this bad policy. I'm happy that the articles here on Netzpolitik have been given a voice in the press and in the minds of everyday citizens. This new information-central world of communication brings us a new degree of openness and we are slowly learning how to use our new digital tools and open source principles effectively. Every day we grow stronger and we'll continue to define and breathe life into these digital communities. Many people are becoming more political and are beginning to share their political views with others, both on the net and in the analog world. This is fun, it's creative and it's a worthwhile democratic activity, so join in!
" The link at the end isn't quite so positive. It asks a lot of the same questions that we asked here on
"After the passing into law of the 'Zensursula-infrastructure' there are undoubtedly many people out there who are feeling disappointed. What more could we have done that we didn't do in the last few months and years? How big does a movement have to be before it's successful? Our group has grown incredibly, so why doesn't anyone seem to understand us?"
I'd do the rest but my translation skills aren't the best and it's already time for me to be getting to class. It's a great article though.
Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I was trying to think of an analogy for dns-based censorship that would resonate with politicians. Got it =D
It's like paying millions of dollars to keep prostitutes out of the phone book.
they think they can censor the internet. *headpat*
93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
As an organisation convicted of serial child abuse affecting thousands of children over decades by a government largely sympathetic to it, the Roman Catholic Church will obviously be a large feature on any blacklist intending to protect children.
source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8060442.stm amongst others.
But, clearly, it won't. Until it does, there is nothing in any of these laws that is protecting children and any proponents of them are clearly immorally using 'think of the children' as a cover.
Business/App ideas are like arseholes: everyone's got one, they're mostly shit, but very rarely they contain a diamond
It might say it allows them, but in practice it mandates it. Just imagine if an ISP didn't - they'd be accused of assisting peadia^H peido^H kiddy fiddlers!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
"Apple:Fuck" ? what it is ? new Apple online service ?
Sure makes sense! If I can run around with an M16 at home without first going through months of grunt training to polish the ego of a dufus, why should I join the military? And there you don't even get to use that rifle sensibly! I, on the other hand, shot more people than any soldier at any time ever!
Sure, I also died a lot more often... Try to beat that, army!
Now, if people can't do that at home anymore, they may have to bite the bullet (no pun intended) and sign up.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Actually the president has to sign it before it becomes official (which he refused to do in a prior case). Plus the german Supreme Court is already on it too. They sacked quite a few earlier atempts of this government to build a police state (of course to protect us from terrorism and whatnot). It's kind of sad to see these laws stopped only at the last chance.
Yes, it is.
We need instructions on using OpenDNS posted to the daily evening news. If someone can accomplish that, in whatever way, he'll be my personal hero.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Slashdot is a great place to discuss and moan, but it isn't the battle site. If you want to change things you need to organise yourselves, write to your representative, get your views across to journalists. Make it known that you are the majority view. Attend political meetings and support those in influence who support your view.
Don't imagine that by whining on Slashdot you will have changed anything.
Your reply does not address his point - which is that a politician who claims that children are the most precious members of society may well be disingenuous. The example of someone as extreme as Hitler saying such a thing is well worth noting.
It is a good quote and conveys that notion very well.
He did not quote it simply because of some random coincidence of words.
Which is why politicians never even mention the latter.
Makes sense, no?
When the same happened in Finland, the Ministry of Communications announced that ISPs are free to refuse as long as they don't. If the results of voluntary ISP participation were found to be unsatisfactory, mandatory measures would be taken.
Come to think of it, there was no way the results could've been satisfactory. A 2% accuracy rate, DNS censoring that takes seconds to get through, trying to do this at all... Fortunately, a couple of big ISPs dropped out in spring 2008, when there was a bit of a backlash, and the Ministry hasn't had the opportunity to grab further state control.
"...violent video games because THAT might lead to actual violence."
And that particular link is tenuous, at best.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
... the German federal parliament will be elected later on this year. Both parties of the big coalition (SPD+CDU) have to use the Summer to prepare voters for the election. And passing a law that protects children in some way will gain them big plus points with most family fathers and mothers (and probably others, as well). During the EU parliament election earlier this month, CDU was leading the polls, and SPD had lost some influence. Many people are sick of this coalition, mainly due to the highest taxes in German history for tobacco and fuel, plus an unusual erosion of social benefits that had unexpectedly taken place during the Schroeder (SPD) government a few years back. Many people will vote for the Left Party (Die Linke) or at least The Greens (Die Gruenen) instead, but it remains to be seen if the power of CDU and SPD can be broken that had us in their grip for decades. Career-driven politicians do not necessarily act in the interest of the people ... this problem has already existed since ancient Rome. BTW, ex-chancellor Schroeder is now board member of GazProm, a Russian gas giant.
Our government broke constitutional law, article 5, section 1 ("Eine Zensur findet nicht statt." = ""Censorship does not happen."), which makes them, by the rules of our constitution, a anticonstitutional, criminal organization. Does anyone with law knowledge know, how this is meant to be enforced in this case? Because, if it is constitutional to shoot them (or do anything else), I'd be the first do do so. I think there is no bigger criminal offense, than breaking such basic constitutional laws. Especially if you are the government.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Oh well, I guess now we'll NEVER get to see that update release of Wolfenstein.
"Think of the children" - you Liberal / Commie morons!
Take Nobody's Word For It.
Since they'll be ready to kill NOW where as you are hoping you can get away with not killing.
"The Sword Of Truth" series has some of this later on (in "Faith of the Fallen", IIRC). You have to be willing to kill and kill first.
Or an armed insurrection will fail, since a gun in your hands gives them more "justification" and is acting against you.
The real problem isn't even censoring internet sites with illegal content - technically I'm not even sure that can be called censorship - hence bringing a drug dealer to court isn't censorship either. The problem is the NOT bringing anything to court. Here in germany we're (sadly only supposed) to have the 'govermental' power divided in three tiers, those who make the laws, those who decide / interpret the laws (judges and courts), and those who execute the laws (the police). The main problem with this new law is that those who execute the law, the police, who put up a site on the block list, is also the power that interprets the law since they decide which site is blocked and which isn't. To come back to the example with drug dealers, this would equal the police shooting people on sight because they think they are drug dealers and this being legal. The problem is not blocking websides that are illegal, the problem is that there no judge, no court, will ever see the sites and get to give a judgement if the site is actually illegal or not. The list is secret and there isn't even a mechanism that controlls the list once it is in place. So as I see it: Blocking sites with illegal conten't (in this case child pornography) is not censorship but it is carrying out a law. But doing it WITHOUT a court and a judge, without making the process transperent, without the chance of a side to defend themselfs if the claims are false, that is a kind of censorship that is worthy the finest dictatorships. Best regards, Licenser - a very very annoyed german.
The German article doesn't cover the counter-strike story. Where does that remark come from?
Anyone who claims that video games can train you to kill should be given a Tony Hawk game and a month to train before they're given a real skateboard and a ramp to demonstrate all the real world skills they've learned on their Xbox.
There are probably many people who know about child porn only because of this debate. How many of them will give it a try?
(+1, Disagree)
We will show these NAZIs how sick they are by raping our children!
This law will be sacked by the courts in no time, it is clearly unconstitutional. The german constitution prohibits censorship!
Unfortunately, censorship would require that everything is submitted to the censorship authorities _before_ publishing.
However, there are other areas where the constitutionality of the law is questionable.
Does that mean they'll block access to Wikipedia for displaying the cover of The Scorpions Virgin Killer?
Welcome to the real world. It's possible to build all sorts of safeguards into a system to protect the people from despots. In the U.S., we did a fairly good job of it, what with all those "checks and balances" and such. But over time, the assholes eventually win. Little by little, the corridors of power see public servants and statesmen replaced by people who just want power. It's inevitable.
The guys who set up the U.S. legal infrastructure (we call them the "Founding Fathers") realized this and built a big ol' reset switch into the system in the form of an amendment to the Constitution specifically designed to make sure the people could possess the means to drag their oppressors into the street and shoot them in the head.
Let me stress: We are not there, yet.
Still, it would be nice to be prepared. Wanna learn something useful, gain a satisfying physical skill, and have some fun, all at the same time? I'm at work and (quite ironically) filtered, so I can't visit sites to find and post specific links, but this site is a fine place to start. Turn your speakers down before you click the link; the drums are nice and the opening riff is brief, but it's still unexpected.
I dont understand how they can still be saying that games like counter-strike are "killer games" its now obvious that society uses these games as a cop out for societies obvious decay and lack of parenting skills. And to even be bold enough as to put these video games, which last i knew were nothing more then a form of entertainment on the same level as child porn? excuse me but i think that 80 year old shithead who shot up the holocaust museum was more likely to be watching child porn than playing counter-strike.
P.S. I just finished playing 24 hours of cs. i'm gunna go smoke some crack and shoot up my local highschool.
Luckily these people die to be replaced by other conservatives who are trying to conserve a slightly later rule set (the one that they grew up with, rather than their parents, allowing us to change the topics of debate at least once or a few times per generation.
Indeed.
I find it ironic that most conservatives think of liberals as trying to "take-control", a la Stalin style, but have a blind spot for enforcing their morality on others. It's well established that these values are socially constructed, so the more paranoid conservatives view education as part of some sneaky liberal agenda.
I wonder what the conservative landscape will look like in 20 years? The current crop were teens and twenties during the social revolutions of the 60s. Teen society seems altogether more conservative now than in the 70s, yet the conservatives poll very poorly amongst the young.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
and search for the Image and Text of the Stop-Sign that is displayed on "forbidden" websites instead of the original content. Was about time to have one search-keyword that returns you the addresses of all of the bigger kiddie porn websites.
Gun ownership is not so much about morality as it is about mortality. Same goes for wearing seat-belts. I guess it comes down to how you measure the public good. The conservatives want to assume that everybody is equal in their self-direction and responsibilities. The liberals want to measure the cost to the rest of us, when people can't be trusted to act wisely. It's interesting that conservatives see morality as something that can be imposed, despite evidence to the contrary (think war on drugs, abortion, or pretty much any other moral crusade), where as liberals think that self-determination and responsibility can be imposed.
It's moral authoritarianism that liberals find so heinous, and for good reason. A true moral standard is humble in its prescription for the behaviour of others. After-all, history is laced with the horrors of conventional wisdom gone mad.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
While it's probably not true that politicians fight for their constituents, it does not follow that therefore all politicians have the same agenda. There are ideological differences between the sides, and it does show up in policy. For example, do you think that the Iraq war would have happened with Rumsfeld and co. were not in the Pentagon?
I guess it comes down to discriminating where they are different, and voting based on a choice between those differences. The differences may not be immediately obvious.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Just made up, I think. And repeated again, and again, and again... This deliberate, tiresome, repeated mischaracteriation of Hitler's words - purportedly to link child protection and censorship in HIS mind - is not, it seems to me accidental. It has come up literally hundreds of times in the context of Australia's debate about Internet censorship. Interesting to speculate who is behind this - and what their motives might be?
In all the years that i've been surfing the internet i have NEVER . I mean NOT EVER, NOT ONCE encountered a website where childporn is openly available on the internet. This is nothing but a mask to control the flow of information and that makes Merkel no better than the ppl who lead Iran and China. I thought they were gone forever but it seems the Nazi's are back. A VERY, VERY sad day for freedom ... we should all move to Sweden where people and consumer rights are actually taken seriously cos if Merkel and Sarkozy get their way with Europe we will soon all have a chip up our European asses.
a very sad day for freedom
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?