Slashdot Mirror
Man Attacked In Ohio For Providing Iran Proxies
David Hume writes "electronicmaji is reporting on the Daily Kos that the individual known as ProtesterHelp (also to be found on twitter) was attacked in Ohio for providing network security for Twitterers in Iran, setting up private networks to provide secure proxies, calling for media networks to remove the Iranians Twitterers' information from their broadcast, and providing counter-intelligence services (including Basiji and Army Locations) within the Twitter community. ProtesterHelp was allegedly attacked by a group of men while walking to class in Ohio. The men, who appeared to ProtesterHelp to be either Iranian or Lebanese, drove up beside him and threw rocks at him while shouting, 'Mousavi Fraud.' ProtesterHelp further reported that his personal information has been leaked, and is currently being spread both online and inside of Iran amongst the government." Relatedly, Wired is also reporting that Google and Facebook have rushed out support for Persian. This move has allowed many pro-democracy groups to connect and translate their message to a broader audience.
A man on US soil gets attacked by agents of a foreign government.
Slashdot response: "It's the US's fault".
Discuss.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
Islam hardliners see current Iran's regime as only force who can stand against 'Western corruption'. They are desperate as they influence around the world shrinks after more moderate US goverment came into power. So it propably wasn't ordered attack, just people who sees current democratical movement with Mousavi as leader as real threat for the regime.
So this fight will echo around the world. If you support those guys in Iran, be ready to take some hits. Let's hope there won't be killings or something, but it will be ugly nevertheless.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
if only they allowed concealed carry on campuses, we'd have a few less rock throwers in this country. . .
. . .provided the fact he has a gun, and knows how to use it of course
At least he can now say that a foreign government has aligned against him and not be considered a tin foiled weirdo.
Well, not that I mean to be insensitive, but when you're messing with that kind of stuff, you want to be as anonymous as humanly possible.
Like, purchasing hosting somewhere else in the world, with a one-time VISA/MasterCard cash card that you bought at a corner store with cash. You know? Uploading everything from your laptop while you're chilling at a coffee shop well distanced from your home.
Maybe I'm just paranoid, but man, I would not be dealing with this kinda scenario where people are getting killed in the night and shit, unless I was doing it ultra un-traceable style. Because I would absolutely anticipate this kind of harsh backlash from the same crazy fuckers that are doing the same thing in Iran.
I actually considered setting up an anonymous web-form -> twitter gateway, but it was just not worth the hassle to set that kind of thing up with the kind of anonymity I would require to be OK with doing that. :P
he's making a difference.
But then I realized the cable was blue, so I only gave it one star. I hate blue.
No. This stops now.
I don't have any money, but I am glad to provide a proxy or whatever if anyone is so crazed that they will attack people across international lines just to silence their speech. I don't have family and I'm not afraid of whatever they think they can do. Such people are scum and not worth fearing.
I need help. I don't know the specific systems, steps and processes necessary to support these people. What do I do or where do I go to find out what to do?
Anyone remember the nutjob who carved a backwards B into her face and blamed it on a black man?
I'm very skeptical of this without corroboration.
Islam is a religion of peace. A truckload of swarthy 3rd world men is so Back To The Future.
I have been on IRC (where everybody is organizing) constantly for the last 3 days or so watching the chatter on this.
Dear god. Guys, some of the people doing this have got their head fully up their ass. People are going to get banned from their ISP or worse. You've got a bunch of idiots that cannot grok how to launch a DOS window running wide open proxies on their home cable connections.
There are people running dedicated servers right now to ferry information out of the country, but some of these people are seriously going to get themselves into trouble.
If you do not have a working knowledge of routing, pf/iptables, and squid, please do not run a proxy. You are going to get yourself into more trouble than having rocks thrown at you.
Or worse, your misconfiguration is going to get people in Iran killed.
For a start Irans shia form of islam means that it will never be seen as a force representing the majority of the muslim world and whilst to an outsider iranians may seem extremely religious they are n't, just look at the youth who are leading this thing.
Islam as the reason for the way things are in Iran is a red herring, the people at the top are basically filthy rich and use the argument of "Gods will" against anyone who they sea as a threat to them, hence the use of the word "devine" by the ayatolla to describe the result.
Is anyone else disturbed by the fact that, apparently, a foreign government identified an American Citizen and had operatives attack that individual? On US Soil? I wonder if there will be hit squads next, or teams of operatives attempting to sabotage servers where proxies are being hosted...
This is exactly why free speech is so critical - so that I can, for example, post a comment on Slashdot without worrying about thugs attacking me for it. Flames and trolls are one thing, angry guys throwing rocks at my car? Quite another.
Never underestimate the potential of Human stupidity. -Heinlein
The Supreme Leader says they are going to crack down on protestors because "the election wasn't rigged." Right, you crack down on protestors because you did not rig the election. That makes total sense...
They are desperate as they influence around the world shrinks after more moderate US goverment came into power.
So Democracy in Iraq, neighbors to Iran, had no influence at all on Iranians *also* wanting real elections?
I'm not saying having a more moderate U.S. president come into power. But let's not heap glory on only one side while forgetting (or trying to bury) the history that made this point possible.
And speaking of moderate administrations, if students here and abroad are willing to take hits, perhaps the President of the U.S. should be as well. And before you repeat the mistaken idea that Iran will crack down harder if the U.S. spoke in support of the protestors, jut what do you think is happening today? Just what do you think is going to happen tomorrow, as Iran ha already warned? Expressing support and best wishes for the protestors gives them a boost in spirit that they need if they are to succeed. Even the president of France has come out strongly in favor of the protestors...
I only want the best for Iranians as well, as one of my friends grew up in Iran. That is why I am so dissatisfied with the lack of upper level support to date.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The department of homeland security should be all over that soon if they aren't too busy confiscating laptops at the airports......
protesting is considered low-level terrorism now..
He should google Daniel Pearl to know what he's getting into.
I too wish everyone respected each other in a peaceful fashion but clearly that's not the case.
Google and Facebook are supporting Persian before they release support for Klingon?!? WTF?!? Man, there is one set of geeks with really misplaced priorities!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Time for this guy to get a conceal carry permit, a handgun, and most importantly, the training to know when to use the above. Online we defend ourselves with munitions known as anonymity and encryption. In real life we use body armor and small arms.
---- Liquid was a patriot ----
...and blamed it on a White man. Al Sharpton even got in on it, and never apologized for it after it was proved false. So then, what was your point?
This isn't about democracy, although many people claim it is.
If Mousavi had won and violent protests had started in the face of electoral fraud, the press would be condemning the protesters as a violent minority clinging to a past order. Similarly, if the protest had started in the middle of Ahmadinejad's term, to oust him out, the press and most people living in the west would side with them. This is good, this is healthy. It'd be healthier if people acknowledged that is has nothing to do with democracy. If Mousavi will be less repressive than Ahmadinejad, then he should take his place, regardless of what the polls say.
\u262D = \u5350
We have foreigners representing a foreign government attacking a US citizen on US soil for political and religious reasons. That's terrorism by definition. The Administration Party Line is "lone nuts" and there's no attempt to investigate the organizations they are connected to.
We have a plague of right-wing extremists killing Americans for political and religious reasons. That's terrorism by definition. The Administration Party Line is "lone nuts" and there's no attempt to investigate the organizations they are connected to.
Where the hell is the FBI and DHS?
ON what planet is this supposed to be "Change We Can Believe In?"
Tech Public Policy stuff
After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market. Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians. The folks running the government are Iranian. The president is Iranian. The secret police are Iranian. The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur. Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government. We must condemn Iranian culture. Its product is the authoritarian state.
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran. If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence. Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy. The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
The Iranians created this horrible society. It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons. We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans. They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people. Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West. Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society. They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
Cultures are different. Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different. The Iranians bear 100% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran. We should condemn Iranian culture and the Iranian people.
pay the price
not a hero, unless you die
there are others, pick whichever sounds awesomer to you
wish i could be like him
Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
I just did an interview with an AP reporter about my involvement with feeding proxies, Tor bridges and relays to people who can get them to Iranians on the ground.
Is no way to scare people into silence. A suspicious suicide or burglary would still work better.
Quack, quack.
Wish I had mod points to bump you up.
your idea here is just going to promote a whole lot of nothing. Oh, it will provoke serious Iranian hatred of the US though.
Condemn an entire country's culture?
That's like condemning the country North Korea for what is the choice of a dictator. It's not the country's fault that they're basically living at gunpoint. I don't like XYZ object but condemning it does nothing.
Why don't you go back to whatever you support when you use logic instead of what I am replying to on this one.
cba to make account, but it's me, can e-mail on ph.on.twitter@gmail.com if you want to confirm
Just wanting to say:
1) I agree that this was not agency work, but nationalists.
2) I had no clue how serious this was when I started, and by the time I took measures of security, it was too late
3) I tried to have my personal info pulled from twitter, but they gave me form letter about deleting my account. Boo @twitter.
4) Want to say thank you to all of the private sector security people who offered to advise/help
5) go to http://iran.whyweprotest.net to see how you can help
6) There are other reports of odd things happening to other prominent Americans. Cars trailing, seen parked outside their homes. I can't confirm these, but just saying, if you are involved in any major way (beyond proxies/tor setup), please be careful.
Wish I had mod points to bump you up.
Good thing you don't then. GP is a troll; has made the same post elsewhere on this topic, as well as several previous Iranian topics. Was soundly refuted last time. (Hint: The US's deserves a lot of blame.)
Practice Kind Randomness and Beautiful Acts of Nonsense.
but a legitimate political opinion that has been CENSORED by this user community.
Fucking pathetic.
Damn, that actually makes me respect Kos a little. Really, who the fuck cries for mercenaries? Kinda the point of the job, really.
I mean, no one wants to be a mercenary and have people mount vigils when they're captured or speak tearful eulogies when they die, otherwise you lose the whole mystique of the profession.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Given that Iran is operating under an authoritarian government, I would have thought that just shutting everything down would be quite possible. Cut all internet connections from the country save for a few government agencies, done. I can understand the difficulties in providing selective access across the board but I would have thought it would be simple enough for them to pull the plug. The only reason why they aren't must be because they are more reliant on the internet across their entire economy than I previously suspected -- they can't afford to pull the plug.
That even an authoritarian government run by unpleasant people have trouble with this is encouraging; I would hope censorship in western democracies would be even less successful.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
That whole Middle East/Persian persuasion is fond of throwing rocks.
When they drive up to someone and start throwing rocks, did they go collect rocks before hand?
Bunch of dudes picking around a nearby riverbed for rocks muttering to themselves that they are so going to stone that infidel?
Then go driving around with a carload full of angry men with buckets of rocks?
Seems like a lot of planning.
Unless your adulterous sister is inside.
Assuming this story is true, I'd be concerned that this is an attempt to draw the US Government into a confrontation that will help the hard-liners in Iran. As for who would want such a thing.
Clearly the hard-liners would like to try, once again, to get people to rally behind them in the face of "the great satan." You'd also have to look at the US Neocons, many of whom would like to remove any sympathy for Iran or Iranians that gets in the way of their long-disgraced axis-of-evil BS. And then there is Israel. At least some in Israel are on the same page as the neocons, though I wouldn't want to suggest that their position is universally held.
Anyway, I'm suspicious of the motives of anyone who wants to use this as anything but a reason to get the cops and/or FBI on the case.
You are completely ignorant of the struggle in Iran. They have been struggling for democracy for over 100 years and have been thwarted at every turn. First by the Russians and British, then by America, and finally by extremist forces within the country. The majority of Iranians DO want a democracy, but they don't want that imposed on them by any foreign power no matter their intentions. You are right that it is not our business because every time any foreigner has attempted to influence Iranian politics it has ended up in tragedy. This is one of the oldest cultures on Earth and the people are patient with very long memories, one day they will achieve democracy but it will be through the efforts of their people alone. Perhaps this will unfold into a real change for the Persian people, perhaps not. But what this does symbolize is that the people of Iran have a voice that will not be silenced. If this movement today fails it will bolster people to work in hiding and maybe in another 10 years they will get what they want.
"For all the hatred spewed at the direction of the USA, I've got to say there's quite an effort underway by normal citizens to help. There are people from all over the world trying to help, but I'd say a good number of them are from the USA."
Did it never occur to you or anyone else that this is exactly why the US is so hated?
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. --River Tam
This is why we are so hated. Yes, I believe in freedom of speech, fair elections, and democracy for all. But, we need to step back and respect countries enough to let them get there on their own terms.
to intimidate individuals, a group, or nation to advance political goals.
Doesn't matter whether you agree with both the Iranian crazies attacking people on behalf of the tyrannical Iranian regime or the anti-abortion fetus fanatics or both. (I presume both from the content of your post.)
Doesn't matter if you simply think it impolite to call people who commit political violence terrorists.
It's STILL terrorism.
No matter how much you 'understand what's driving those people even if you can't publicly condone their methods'.
Tech Public Policy stuff
It was baby incubators.
The men, who appeared to ProtesterHelp to be either Iranian or Lebanese, drove up besides him and threw rocks at him while shouting,
Try that around here. The headline would read something like Mystery Attackers Killed In Hail of Gunfire - Bystanders join police shooting at attackers in van.
I'm always surprised reading about incidents like that. I guess when you live farther from town you don't depend on the cops for protection. The only thing they could do getting here 15 minutes later is fill out the reports.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I got the idea that the few people with access to Twitter and YouTube were mostly using foreign dial-up ISPs and satellite internet connects.
Google et. al. can support pro-democracy movements... when they aren't in important emerging markets like China.
There are many people attacked everyday in the lawless United States of America.
What makes this news?
P.S. Iran has done an excellent job of preventing news about the election results getting to the rest of the world.
Yours In Peace,
Kilgore Trout
This exact comment was posted as-is a few days ago somewhere in here. I also found it (by googling the first sentence) on another blog as well. I find it very strange to have someone copy and paste their thoughts all over the place.
the us should be hunting them down and killing them
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
I bet all those people who blithely sat on their hands while Iran developed rock-throwing technology must be feeling pretty foolish.
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
Sounds like that girl who claimed that an Obama supporter beat her up just before the last election....
I'm sure someone threw some rocks at this guy (no - I'm really not), but I doubt it was a concerted effort to silence him... or even folks from Iran.
It may even be a prank by some other college kids who were A) drunk or B) don't like this kid anyway(or C) a lie).
In any case, no blood no foul, right? That is why we help Iranians in a potential civil war through our twitter accounts instead of sending them material aid that might actually be able to help them in case things start getting really ugly.
If you really want to help them, start translating the anarchist cookbook into the local language, or smuggle copies of it into the country.
Remember folks:
Sticks and stones may break my bones,
but computers can never hurt me.
Tanks and guns can kill me dead,
but twitter will never harm me.
Planes and bombs can level my village,
but a netwar is just crackers having fun.
---
Good thing you don't then. GP is a troll; has made the same post elsewhere on this topic, as well as several previous Iranian topics. Was soundly refuted last time. (Hint: The US's deserves a lot of blame.)
I'm sorry, but I don't speak redneckese. The US's what?
Advice: on VPS providers
Condemn an entire country's culture?
*cough* Nazi Germany *cough*
Advice: on VPS providers
The link provided says Iran should do this:
- remove Ahmadinejad
- recognize Mousavi as president
This suggestion is not democracy at all. Ahmadinejad won the election according to the results.
From what I have seen, the Mousavi party is not meeting the legal requirements to protest the results and is instead encouraging people to protest directly through civil disobedience. One would have to guess that this is because Mousavi knows he lost and the correct process would prove that.
As a democratic country the courts should decide where recounts are appropriate and whether fraud may have been committed.
After all... according to this guys logic, we should have had Gore in office 9 years ago instead of Bush. I mean that whole thing went through the US supreme courts and they came to the correct decision (didn't they?)
The problem I see with most opinions on this whole thing is that our opinions are formed on the reports from Euro/America media sources. There is a definite dislike for Ahmadinejad due to the negative and embarassing comments from him about the West. But in my opinion, the majority of what he says (in english at least) is entirely correct. Most of what I hear about Ahmadinejad comes not from his mouth, but from summarize of what others reporters say he said. Then when I hear his point of view... it is entirely different and taken out of context.
I don't know who should be in office over there. But to assume we know what the majority of people in Iran want just because one leader suits our taste more then the other is ignorant. To pretend that you know and act upon it is to support the US propaganda machine.
Additionally: throwing rocks at the car of someone who's political views you do not like... that is not terrorism. Although expanding the scope of 'terrorist' is a fun past-time.
Hear, hear! GGP is Definitely a troll.
Let's also not forget that Iran is firmly seated in the 'first world' and is in no way a 2nd/3rd world country. How many 3rd world countries are able to even consider developing nuclear technology?
FBI knows how to find these guys, and detain them for as long as possible before filing charges. You can bet there will be (non-torture) interrogations. The FBI has plenty of federal laws they can throw at these guys, can work with your local DA, and ICE, not to mention get the warrants to track who these guys are talking to and who else might be a threat to you.
The United States NEEDS you to report ANY activity of this kind immediately.
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/fo.htm
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
By George Friedman
Related Link
* The Geopolitics of Iran: Holding the Center of a Mountain Fortress
Related Special Topic Page
* The Iranian Presidential Elections
In 1979, when we were still young and starry-eyed, a revolution took place in Iran. When I asked experts what would happen, they divided into two camps.
The first group of Iran experts argued that the Shah of Iran would certainly survive, that the unrest was simply a cyclical event readily manageable by his security, and that the Iranian people were united behind the Iranian monarch's modernization program. These experts developed this view by talking to the same Iranian officials and businessmen they had been talking to for years -- Iranians who had grown wealthy and powerful under the shah and who spoke English, since Iran experts frequently didn't speak Farsi all that well.
The second group of Iran experts regarded the shah as a repressive brute, and saw the revolution as aimed at liberalizing the country. Their sources were the professionals and academics who supported the uprising -- Iranians who knew what former Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ruholla Khomeini believed, but didn't think he had much popular support. They thought the revolution would result in an increase in human rights and liberty. The experts in this group spoke even less Farsi than the those in the first group.
Misreading Sentiment in Iran
Limited to information on Iran from English-speaking opponents of the regime, both groups of Iran experts got a very misleading vision of where the revolution was heading -- because the Iranian revolution was not brought about by the people who spoke English. It was made by merchants in city bazaars, by rural peasants, by the clergy -- people Americans didn't speak to because they couldn't. This demographic was unsure of the virtues of modernization and not at all clear on the virtues of liberalism. From the time they were born, its members knew the virtue of Islam, and that the Iranian state must be an Islamic state.
Americans and Europeans have been misreading Iran for 30 years. Even after the shah fell, the myth has survived that a mass movement of people exists demanding liberalization -- a movement that if encouraged by the West eventually would form a majority and rule the country. We call this outlook "iPod liberalism," the idea that anyone who listens to rock 'n' roll on an iPod, writes blogs and knows what it means to Twitter must be an enthusiastic supporter of Western liberalism. Even more significantly, this outlook fails to recognize that iPod owners represent a small minority in Iran -- a country that is poor, pious and content on the whole with the revolution forged 30 years ago.
There are undoubtedly people who want to liberalize the Iranian regime. They are to be found among the professional classes in Tehran, as well as among students. Many speak English, making them accessible to the touring journalists, diplomats and intelligence people who pass through. They are the ones who can speak to Westerners, and they are the ones willing to speak to Westerners. And these people give Westerners a wildly distorted view of Iran. They can create the impression that a fantastic liberalization is at hand -- but not when you realize that iPod-owning Anglophones are not exactly the majority in Iran.
Last Friday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was re-elected with about two-thirds of the vote. Supporters of his opponent, both inside and outside Iran, were stunned. A poll revealed that former Iranian Prime Minister Mir Hossein Mousavi was beating Ahmadinejad. It is, of course, interesting to meditate on how you could conduct a poll in a country where phones are not universal, and making a call once you have found a phone can be a trial. A poll therefore would probably reach people who had phones and lived in Tehran and other urban areas. Among those, Mousavi probably did win. But outside Tehran, and beyond persons easy to p
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
By that logic, would the East be morally justified in destroying American nuclear weapons facilities?
Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
I would be suspect to believe this story. The Huffington Post tried to verify this story, along with police records of the incident, and were unable to.
I'd take that to mean that he's guessing that they were Iranian or Lebanese. There's no common element in those two ethnicities that distinguishes them from Jordanians, Syrians or what have you. You might recognize an Iranian by face, dress or (obviously) language but not "either Iranian or Lebanese".
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
We have a true "Enemy Within" in this country. Really frightening if you ask me.
Those Americans who cannot name the prime minister of Canada or the president of Mexico should quit politics and not be agents of U.S. propaganda.
I have not seen any proof of a stolen election by the Western press. I have seen documented polls showing 2/3 Iranian support for Ahmadinejad. I think those trying to steal the Iran election are a minority of wealthy Iranians and the U.S. and its allies.
Everyone should know now that the Western press are liars. Below is a link exposing the BBC using a cropped photo of a pro-Ahmadinejad rally and claiming it is a protest rally.
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/june2009/061809_iran_propaganda.htm
I only wish that rock knocked that blogger's teeth out.
Iranian Rednecks
By that logic, would the East be morally justified in destroying American nuclear weapons facilities?
No, because the western democracies do not conduct themselves in the same way as the tyrants that run places like Iran and North Korea. Western governments don't make fist-shaking speeches that include discussions about their glorious nuclear programs and also about wiping another country and its people off the map.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I think that's a bit glib. At least a significant portion of the Blackwater people, at least the ones actually on the ground, are just former soldiers who traded up to an employer who would give them better body armor.
Now if you're explicitly talking about someone who is willing to fight for anyone who pays enough money, no questions asked, then of course they don't deserve any sympathy. But I don't think there are really that many people like that.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
If you think of "authoritarian" and "not-authoritarian" as a binary switch between extremes, and if you assume that an authoritarian government not only is absolutely authoritarian in structure, but also of perfect in loyalty to the leadership and competence, that assumption would be natural.
Reality doesn't quite work that way, and particularly not in the present situation in Iraq. It probably doesn't help the authoritarians that the "opposition" includes people who are former high ranking government officials with lots of contacts in and through the government at all levels, and that some are, in fact, current senior leaders*. Even authoritarian regimes don't have governments that are from top to bottom composed of mindless drones with unquestioning loyalty to the leader.
Mousavi was the last Prime Minister of Iraq before the position was abolished in 1989; among others in the opposition, Mohammad Khatami is the most recent former President of Iran, and Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani is Khatami's predecessor as President and, perhaps more importantly, the current chair of the Assembly of Experts (a body whose official duties include supervising, electing, and dismissing the Supreme Leader), and there are others in positions of power that are either aligned with the opposition or, at the least, not committed to backing Khamenei and Ahmadinejad.
No, west does not talk about it, they actually do it instead and set an example to all other nations. Either you are with US or you are against US. Someone remember Hiroshima? Korea?
with a direct link from his twitter to homepage this guy's bio.php is STILL up, supposedly after the attack.
the index was changed to obfuscate but to leave the bio.php up after an attack? it took about 30 seconds
to find this guys info even after he was supposedly fearing for his life. btw, how exactly do you go about
planning to assault someone who is Walking to school with same-day planning? this whole thing sounds
highly suspicious.
do not have a monopoly on the concept of martyrdom
anyone who sacrifices flesh and blood for a noble common cause is instantly elevated to heroic status to be emulated
whether or not this ohio guy's story is true, the ayatollah's warning today means a lot of blood is going to flow soon enough in tehran and anywhere else in the world serious targets run to
but take note, you basij assholes, while you murder your fellow countrymen who simply want a less intolerant life in iran: you are creating martyrs, and we are watching
who are we who are watching? no, not your tired traditional bogeymen of the imperialist american or the colonial british. we are the world, and we see what the truth is, and this has nothing to with meddling foreign powers. it has everything to do with good iranians honestly and organically wanting to make a better country
and we see the tiananmen square bullshit you are about to pull. and you will murder many. and you are not making a stronger iran, you are making a weaker one. because you are killing your better selves
fuck you basij assholes. however religious you think you are, you are most certainly going to whatever hell your religion affords you for the actions you are about to unleash
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I advise caution in believing this story. ProtesterHelp, earlier today, was spreading false information that Mousavi had been arrested on Twitter. The combination makes me suspect attention whoring in lieu of truth.
Philip Sandifer's academic website
Wait. So some guy in the US with a twitter account is attacked by what is definitely implied to be Basij militia, and it makes news on some buried diary on a political activist blog? What? The guy didn't have a guts to carve an A into his own cheek? (At least an 'A' is symmetric.)
The "Democracy in Iraq" hasn't been considered much of a showpiece for emulation outside of the same group of people in the West who were cheerleaders for the war in the first place.
True. But I doubt there would have been the need to rig the vote if Hussein was still in charge of Iraq. Removing Iraq as a threat enabled people to focus on things beyond their immediate security.
Korea?
That was TOTALLY justifiable, I mean they were going to turn into commies. And a bunch of people living half the world away choosing a political system different than ours is a REALLY bad thing! It would really hurt America in a terrible, and not at all nebulous way! Those strange Asian people living in a country that most Americans couldn't find on a map turning pinko would cause human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
Think of the affront to the American way! Truth, Justice, Apple Pie, and Crappy Action Movies would cease to be, completely!
See also those scary brown people in South America trying to govern themselves in their own way... The nerve.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Some people^H^H^H^H^H^Hextremists would count every doctor who is willing to perform a first-week abortion as an pro-abortion activist.
Others would count anyone who "enables" them to stay in business, including their staff, their bank, and even members of the local police department who arrest people who threaten said doctors.
Some would count everyone who openly says abortion is murder as an anti-abortion activist.
As for Christian abortion activists, there are Christians in both groups.
So, depending on who gets to define Christian abortion activist, the number of abortion activists may be very high.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
if only they allowed concealed carry on campuses, we'd have a few less rock throwers in this country. . .
Yeah. Why throw rocks, when you could just shoot him dead? Seems more efficient.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Your post is far too meta, 'though you're spot on.
This one has no chance!
Wikileaks, no DNS
First I'll say that violence is 100% uncalled for, but I wouldn't doubt if the U.S. government is using the private but publicly funded "Endowment for Democracy" to interfere with Iran's election to help bring about the regime change the neo-cons have been gunning for, for a decade now. Imagine if it was found out that Chinese agents were interfering with our governance wouldn't that piss you off?
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Endowment_for_Democracy
http://www.iefd.org/articles/trojan_horse.php
I can't prove this is happening of course but it would very consistent with previous covert U.S. interventions in other countries like Guatemala, Iran, Iraq, etc. My gut feeling is, is that is awfully perfectly timed and heavily pushed by the MSM to be a 100% spontaneous uprising. Again I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that there is more going on here than we are been told about.
What scares me is that an increasingly hawkish foreign policy will probably get almost no domestic opposition in the U.S. as neo-con Republicans are already behind it, and many naive "liberal" do gooder type won't question ANYTHING done by Obama (who I voted for BTW, mistake). Now more than ever it's time for Ron Paul authentic conservatives and lefty activists like myself to share notes IMO as the "center" gets increasingly imperialistic and bloodthirsty.
Go ahead and flame me and mod me down, I've got karma to burn, shrug
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
Maybe because they've been so indoctrinated to follow the current system due to the fact that the United States fully supported (financially and intelligence-wise) the Shah overthrowing the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED government of Iran in 1953 due to the government at that time moving towards nationalizing the iranian oil fields which would have severely cut into British oil company's profits.
I wonder, is Ohio a "shall-issue" state for concealed carry? Rocks can be lethal, and if anyone was throwing rocks at me to make a political point, I'd sure as hell want to be carrying something rather more effective.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I know! --It's beyond cartoonish. It's beyond silly. But people actually eat this stuff up.
"Mission Accomplished!" --Bush in flight gear. It's SO dumb, but so are the people it's being aimed at, so yes, it will work.
Iranian civilians will be piled up in smoldering mountains of twisted limbs thanks to the 19 year-olds quivering with patriotic pride who will be dropping American bombs on them.
This stupid shit works for the same reason that people's mouths fill with gobs of Pavlovian saliva when they see a big yellow 'M'.
-FL
"By that logic, would the East be morally justified in destroying American nuclear weapons facilities?"
Since "morals" are arbitrary and subjective, why not?
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Daily Kos? On Slashdot? That and Huffington Post is why every self-respecting person abandoned Digg long before the end of the last election. Please don't pollute /. too.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
Just when you thought Iran was a monoculture with everyone voicing and toeing the official government line, bang!, protesters (strongly) against the government. Just when you thought the current, old, hard-ass hard-line regime was purely and perpetually sour at the west just because we are in the west, BANG!, you fully understand them in context with their own people. Lie, cheat, steal to stay in power (like cheap pocket dictators the world over). Its not because the others are unqualified to govern/lead, or that the others may not have earned the job, no, these cheap pocket dictators obtained power by fiat. They lied/stole/cheated/killed to grab power, and will do any and all of the previous to maintain their hold on power. Getting rid of them is always a pain-in-the-ass. There are some in China (they call themselves communists), there are some in Iran (claiming a theocracy), there are some in Burma (going under the guise of a military junta), some in Russia (not sure of the title, but former KGB/communists), one in North Korea (communist dictatorship, rule for life, and as the power is absolute and now looking hereditary, more and more like a kingdom), and others. Iranians may have to wait for the political freedom they desire. In Chile, they had to wait till Pinochet was mostly dead. In Cambodia, the sonofabitch Pol Pot who was responsible for the death of millions didn't really get any justice till a stroke and heart attack finally killed him. In Iran, Ayatollah replaces Ayatollah. There is no end to them. If they don't ever want to let go of their grip on power, you will have to force power from them. It might not be a fun job, but if Iranians want freedom (not imposed on them from some outside power, but taken internally on their own behalf), they will have to take it. If those who have it insist on keeping it by all means necessary, then those who want it but don't have it, will have to use all means necessary. It seems we are living in interesting times.
>Now if you're explicitly talking about someone who is willing to fight for anyone who pays enough money, no questions asked, then of course they don't deserve any sympathy. But I don't think there are really that many people like that.
I believe that Hannah Arendt (who wrote, among other things, about how easy it is to get ordinary people to do evil) and Machiavelli (who spent a good chunk of his writing on railing at mercenaries who would work for anyone with the money) would like to have a polite word with you about how incorrect that belief of yours is.
At least a significant portion of the Blackwater people, at least the ones actually on the ground, are just former soldiers who traded up to an employer who would give them better body armor.
You know that how?
I, having worked for BW (and a couple of other DoD contractors), can tell you that most everyone I worked with was there because they pay obscene amounts of money.
Western governments don't make fist-shaking speeches that include discussions about their glorious nuclear programs and also about wiping another country and its people off the map.
You haven't been paying much attention to what's been going on here in the United States the last decade (or four), have you?
and are obviously taking your freedom for granted. As someone who grew up in the Soviet Union, I assure you that there is a big difference between the ideology of freedom and an ideology of collectivist serfdom, with the ideological high priests claiming to have the one and only true teaching on top.
Checks and balances seem such a ridiculous waste of time and effort, until you find yourself facing an actual tyrant, no matter how small.
Then, after the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe in 1989, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market. Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
That is how people act when they want freedom and free markets.
In 1979, after the Iranian people overthrow the despot whom the Americans supported, the Iranians immediately established a brutal, authoritarian theocracy.
That is how people act when they reject both freedom and free markets.
Cultures are different. Eastern-European culture and Iranian culture are different. The Iranians bear 100% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran. We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.
See African civil wars in the 80's and 90's, especially Angola, then tell me that there are not many who are like you described.
For 70 years, the Kremlin systematically exterminated people who opposed communism. The Kremlin "killed off all the democracy advocates". Yet, in 1991, the Russian people removed the communist government. Today, though the government of Russia is seriously flawed, the overwhelming majority of Russians does not support re-establishing the communist government.
The Iranians are radically and uniquely different from the Russians and the Eastern Europeans. The Iranians are 100% responsible for creating a brutal Islamic theocracy in Iran.
"I think that's a bit glib. At least a significant portion of the Blackwater people, at least the ones actually on the ground, are just former soldiers who traded up to an employer who would give them better body armor"
And a $50,000 a year pay rise.
Most soldiers can't wait to go home. Out of the soldiers who finish their service there's a tiny fraction that can't wait to get back and make $80k a year and not be bound by *any* law or code regarding their behavior.
Blackwater et al are largely a self selecting group, those that *want* to be in a war zone.
Any if they *choose* to go back into a war zone - not under the flag of their government but under a private army then it doesn't have anything to do with body armour (or patriotism) at all.
It's money. Or something worse - the thrill.
So yes they're mercenaries by definition.
Now if you're explicitly talking about someone who is willing to fight for anyone who pays enough money, no questions asked, then of course they don't deserve any sympathy. But I don't think there are really that many people like that.
But there *are* a lot of people like that. And they join up with Blackwater. It's a big part of the reason that the regular soldiers (like Kos was) hate mercs, they left their brothers behind to go make bigger money. Plus, mercs take almost no responsibility for anything - they make a mess, piss off the locals, fuck everything up? Well, that just sucks. Guess who has to go in, clean it up, calm everyone down, and put things right? That's right, the regular soldiers.
Which is exactly what happened in Fallujah, where those assholes drove around "patrolling" and lighting shit up, enrage the locals, got killed for it, and then a bunch of regular soldiers were stuck going in and shooting it out with an angry, heavily armed populace to save our country's seat in the grand media dick-waving contest.
So yeah, they tend to hate those merc fuckers.
This is all ignoring the fact that using mercs is strictly illegal thanks to the US Constitution and the Geneva convention.
(To remind you trolls: the constitution explicitly states that any treaty signed in our nation's name must be treated as if it were the highest law of the land. The founding fathers were quite concerned with the possibility that some jackasses might sign a treaty lightly, then ignore their obligations, and thus damage the nation's credibility and make us hated around the world. But that would never happen, right?
Of course, this once again highlights the basic flaw in their design: restrictions on the people in charge only work if the people in charge enforce them. As the Anarchist Prince, Peter Kropotkin once put it: "America is just the country that shows how all the written guarantees in the world for freedom are no protection against tyranny and oppression of the worst kind. There the politician has come to be looked upon as the very scum of society.")
I think that's a bit glib. At least a significant portion of the Blackwater people, at least the ones actually on the ground, are just former soldiers who traded up to an employer who would fail at trying to save money by not giving proper armor or support.
There fixed that for you. Bleating the mantra privatized == good may get you karma from various politcal groups astroturfing here, but doesn't match with reality. Reality is that arrangments are better or worse on a case by case basis. In the case of Blackwater, its far, far more expensive for the country to outsource to 'Backwater' mecrenaries than to maintain their own, comparatively competent, comparatively low-cost units:
Blackwater rentacops couldn't handle regular army so they cover all the "safe" zones for tightwad company with political connections and get their asses handed back to them. That's epic fail all around: less efficient, more expensive, bad press.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
I see an almost unanimous American attitude that this elections was a travesty. I attribute it to wishful thinking and people latching on to what ever confirms their bias. Objectively it is possibly a stolen election but evidence is rather elusive. It is only reasonable to act in a fashion that accepts the possibility the election was not taken from the winner. However I do enjoy seeing the sharing of our American ideals regarding censorship, petiton and peaceful assembly (even as we struggle to live up to our ideals).
There the politician has come to be looked upon as the very scum of society.")
I don't think that's an 'American' thing. Here in Europe, they are just as worse , and there are a lot more of them.
Never trust a politician.
Slipping shoelaces ?
I do not admire Blackwater in any shape or form.
My understanding is that they recruit from soldiers who've finished a tour of duty by offering them higher pay and what at least might sound like a sweeter gig. I have no personal knowledge of this, that's only what I remember reading.
From that perspective, I can't blame the people recruited that way for joining a bad organization. I think you could call them sell-outs or something similar, but my point was that I believe that to claim that a particular human life is beyond sympathy is a foolish thing to say when you know nothing about that particular human.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
I just can't stand blanket contempt for any group, self-selecting or not, without regard for the fact that not all people within that group have the same circumstances.
Yes I agree that the use of mercenaries systematically creates bad results. But I hate the idea of assuming that all people who sign into a bad system signed into it for bad reasons.
You could say that I hate misdirected hate. Any form of contempt should be focused as tight as a laser beam, both to avoid any damage to bystanders and to maximize its potential for incinerating the target.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Yeah, well, Kropotkin was speaking about a hundred years ago, prior to WWI, when people in many places still thought politicians a great idea. The past century has done much to disabuse people of these fantasies, but we've still got a ways to go before the people are ready to embrace the more ethical alternative that is anarchism.
Western governments don't make fist-shaking speeches that include discussions about their glorious nuclear programs and also about wiping another country and its people off the map.
Of course not, instead of talking about it we (the US) just try to sell it to the public as the right thing to do and then, whether the people are convinced or not, do it anyway. So no, maybe we don't talk about wiping countries off the map, but invading sovereign nations, setting up some truly horrible leaders because they're friendly to us and generally just raping poorer countries of their resources is all fair game.
I honestly think that Kim Jong Il's stance is what it is so that his people can focus on a common enemy and be distracted from the real cause of their woes, which is something that a number of countries do, but I seriously doubt that anyone is going to start a war when everyone has nuclear weapons. Then again, the US must have a reason for building that missle defense shield...
I despise the "this is one of the oldest cultures on earth" comments. Bull fucking shit. You want to know the oldest cultures on earth? South African bushmen. 10,000+ years.
than the 2000 elections were.
We didn't see the EU tell the US to do it all over again and this time vote for the right person.
With the huge cockups the US have managed, the vote rigging that is STILL being found in the US and the US's past history of removing the democratically elected leader (from a fair and honest election) to place a despotic leader in who likes the US means that the US MUST and I mean ***MUST*** keep it's big fat gob shut.
Someone remember Hiroshima
Yes. The Japanese, who started that conflict and who were busy raping their way around the Pacific Rim (literally), sure were lucky to get a wake-up call from two small nukes so that hundreds of thousands or millions more of their people didn't die in the ground invasion that would otherwise would have been necessary to shut down what they started.
Why you prefer the horrors of being shot to pieces or burned alive in "conventional" attacks that kill many more people is something of a mystery, but hey, if you're a sadist you're a sadist, I guess.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
The strange thing is that slashdot mostly approves violence, just as long as the correct groups commit it. Like these "demonstrations" at international meetings like the G8 top. Those are not demonstrations, they're looters and pillagers hiding in a crowd that fully agrees with what they're doing, but anyone in the "demonstration" will claim they were there to "protest" and nothing else. Likewise the constant massive violence in North Korea, and especially in Venezuela never gets as much as a peep. Even in Iran the government is barely talked about. Of course the track record of muslim theocratic governments is almost as bad as that of socialist governments. They did not start shooting their own people 3 days ago you know. They've been doing that for 30 years now. Every muslim government has comitted genocides, but such a "detail" can't be mentioned on slashdot, you see it'd be insensitive to their "kill everyone" religion. The same goes with socialism, which sounds like a good idea to the average toddler, and promises free toys, and delivers genocide. Again EVERY significant socialist government has carried out (or "tolerated") genocides, including the current Venezuelan government.
Meanwhile hundreds of businesses and homes are totally destroyed.
I mean I wonder : is there anyone here who dares to claim that e.g. "repression" of blacks in America is 1/10th as bad as minority repression in Iran, or for that matter in any islamic country. When have you last read 5000 blacks disappeared without a trace in America ? These things are a regular occurence for religious minorities all over the muslim world, yet nobody gives a peep.
Let's not pretend the "slashdot attitude" is anti-violence. It isn't. Or at the very least they overlook the groups ideologically aligned with them, or any group somehow "victimized" and fail to convict their violence. The constant lethal religious violence comitted by muslims, comitted while screaming how they're all doing it for islam, gets a free pass. The constant massacres comitted in the name of "socialism" like currently ongoing in, among others, North Korea and Venezuela likewise seems to be A-okay. The obvious repressive violence in Iraq, including massacres on the Kurds, comitted before the American invasion is also non-existent (since those attacks were carried out using poison gas rockets, which are classified as WMD, and we all know these don't exist, right ? That 50.000 Kurds died after those weapons were fired at them is therefore very inconvenient if you want to keep claiming Iraq had no WMD's or poison gas factories).
The majority opinion here is not anti-violence. It's just that anyone who has not sworn openly to be leftist (excuse me, "progressive"), or real violence in the name of any religion is considered very positive.
You know, what you call "counter-intelligence services (including Basiji and Army Locations) within the Twitter community" caused the death of at least 7 people until now, including a mother and a child that was near a Army location and got shot by rioters.
I think every Iranian, no matter where he lives, is angry about this situation.
Btw, not every simple American know the location of Iran's Army places, and it seems these guys had some sort of relation with intelligence officers from Israel, the only country that has spy stations in US.
http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/06/proof-israeli-effort-to-destabilize-iran-via-twitter/
1. the situation in iran is the fault of the usa. therefore, since the usa is responsible for events there, the usa should do more, perhaps invade, since, as YOU assert (not me), the usa is responsible for every goddamn thing by the most creative of lines of reasoning
2. the situation in iran is the fault of iranians. including daily chants for 30 years of "death to the usa". (a country that voraciously antagonistic to the usa is still a pawn of the usa??? how the hell does that work in your mind exactly???)
its called personal responsibility. you see it on the public AND private spheres: people who remain mired in awful positions in life, partly out of a system of rationalization and learned helplessness which blames all of their slights and difficulties on someone else. rather than shutting up, picking themselves up, and bettering themselves. i have a good idea of what your personal psychology is like, the way you think about world politics
the usa did plenty of vile things in the cold war. britain did plenty of things in the colonial era. did you happen to notice the cold war ended 20 years ago and the colonial era ended in world war ii? no: apparently you, and the propagandizers in tehran, think that therefore there are an endless supply of american and british secret agents hard at work plotting the downfall of iran. that enemies of iran are alwas lurking in the shadows, ready to spring out like BOGEYMEN to destroy the country. because apparently russia and great britain are still playing the great game in central asia. because apparently the usa is still concerned about tehran falling under the sway of communist moscow. pffffffft
as supposed to gee, i dunno, native born iranians who love iran who are just pulling for a better country? naaah, impossible! clearly the dominant narrative here is spy vs spy hijinks going on in the shadows, just as the propagandizers in tehran assert
you're fucking patehtic the way you think about your world
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
That's all they pay?!?!
Damn..I'd have figured it would be much more than that...that is shit money for that type of risk.
I'd have thought easily in the 6 figure range.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Relax. The AC GP cut/pasted this from an earlier comment in a similar discussion about Iran's post-election communications.
GP: Please don't crib other people's posts. If you aren't original enough to come up with your own well-thought troll, don't bother. Maybe practice on your own for awhile, and start posting when you someday (hopefully) have a fresh thought pop into your head, and can muster the brainpower to write a coherent sentence or two on your own. Plagiarism is such an ugly thing.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
What's wrong with that?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Any if they *choose* to go back into a war zone - not under the flag of their government but under a private army then it doesn't have anything to do with body armour (or patriotism) at all.
Not necessarily. While I'm not trying to defend Blackwater (especially with regard to their conduct toward civilians), I do think there is a role for having specialized guards for diplomats and dignitaries. The U.S. Army doesn't train all that much for such a role, so companies like Blackwater get called on to fill the gap.
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
Mousavi was the last Prime Minister of Iran
There, fixed that for you (seriously).
I believe Ohio has reciprocity with Florida, but i'd have to check. I've not traveled through there recently - I mean, seriously, WTF is there in Ohio?
I've been posting cloud-hosted proxies for a few days now, and I've not bothered covering up my contact info. Can you imagine what a couple of dead Iranians in rural Arkansas, outside the house of someone verifiably helping Iranians communicate would do to their cause?
Learn about Photography Basics.
Traditionally the US Marine Corp has defended embassies --- the problem of course is that they have to be in uniform to comply w/ treaty requirements &c. (as would the Army) Hence the perceived need for a civilian group to do this.
I believe though, that rather than contract this out to the lowest (or only) bidder that they should create a division of the state department to provide such services --- much more accountability and controllability. Okay, so one loses the easy ability to cancel the contract, but aren't long-term commitments for this sort of thing better?
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Of course it'd be preferable to have a government department responsible for this sort of thing. The problem is, the need for large quantities of bodyguards was one of the many things that were not anticipated before the war. Therefore, in my opinion, using private security contractors like Blackwater is acceptable until we can get such an agency up and running.
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
Tell that to John "Bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-bomb-Iran" McCain.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca