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Man Attacked In Ohio For Providing Iran Proxies
David Hume writes "electronicmaji is reporting on the Daily Kos that the individual known as ProtesterHelp (also to be found on twitter) was attacked in Ohio for providing network security for Twitterers in Iran, setting up private networks to provide secure proxies, calling for media networks to remove the Iranians Twitterers' information from their broadcast, and providing counter-intelligence services (including Basiji and Army Locations) within the Twitter community. ProtesterHelp was allegedly attacked by a group of men while walking to class in Ohio. The men, who appeared to ProtesterHelp to be either Iranian or Lebanese, drove up beside him and threw rocks at him while shouting, 'Mousavi Fraud.' ProtesterHelp further reported that his personal information has been leaked, and is currently being spread both online and inside of Iran amongst the government." Relatedly, Wired is also reporting that Google and Facebook have rushed out support for Persian. This move has allowed many pro-democracy groups to connect and translate their message to a broader audience.
A man on US soil gets attacked by agents of a foreign government.
Slashdot response: "It's the US's fault".
Discuss.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
Islam hardliners see current Iran's regime as only force who can stand against 'Western corruption'. They are desperate as they influence around the world shrinks after more moderate US goverment came into power. So it propably wasn't ordered attack, just people who sees current democratical movement with Mousavi as leader as real threat for the regime.
So this fight will echo around the world. If you support those guys in Iran, be ready to take some hits. Let's hope there won't be killings or something, but it will be ugly nevertheless.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
if only they allowed concealed carry on campuses, we'd have a few less rock throwers in this country. . .
. . .provided the fact he has a gun, and knows how to use it of course
Well, not that I mean to be insensitive, but when you're messing with that kind of stuff, you want to be as anonymous as humanly possible.
Like, purchasing hosting somewhere else in the world, with a one-time VISA/MasterCard cash card that you bought at a corner store with cash. You know? Uploading everything from your laptop while you're chilling at a coffee shop well distanced from your home.
Maybe I'm just paranoid, but man, I would not be dealing with this kinda scenario where people are getting killed in the night and shit, unless I was doing it ultra un-traceable style. Because I would absolutely anticipate this kind of harsh backlash from the same crazy fuckers that are doing the same thing in Iran.
I actually considered setting up an anonymous web-form -> twitter gateway, but it was just not worth the hassle to set that kind of thing up with the kind of anonymity I would require to be OK with doing that. :P
he's making a difference.
But then I realized the cable was blue, so I only gave it one star. I hate blue.
No. This stops now.
I don't have any money, but I am glad to provide a proxy or whatever if anyone is so crazed that they will attack people across international lines just to silence their speech. I don't have family and I'm not afraid of whatever they think they can do. Such people are scum and not worth fearing.
I need help. I don't know the specific systems, steps and processes necessary to support these people. What do I do or where do I go to find out what to do?
Anyone remember the nutjob who carved a backwards B into her face and blamed it on a black man?
I'm very skeptical of this without corroboration.
I have been on IRC (where everybody is organizing) constantly for the last 3 days or so watching the chatter on this.
Dear god. Guys, some of the people doing this have got their head fully up their ass. People are going to get banned from their ISP or worse. You've got a bunch of idiots that cannot grok how to launch a DOS window running wide open proxies on their home cable connections.
There are people running dedicated servers right now to ferry information out of the country, but some of these people are seriously going to get themselves into trouble.
If you do not have a working knowledge of routing, pf/iptables, and squid, please do not run a proxy. You are going to get yourself into more trouble than having rocks thrown at you.
Or worse, your misconfiguration is going to get people in Iran killed.
For a start Irans shia form of islam means that it will never be seen as a force representing the majority of the muslim world and whilst to an outsider iranians may seem extremely religious they are n't, just look at the youth who are leading this thing.
Islam as the reason for the way things are in Iran is a red herring, the people at the top are basically filthy rich and use the argument of "Gods will" against anyone who they sea as a threat to them, hence the use of the word "devine" by the ayatolla to describe the result.
Is anyone else disturbed by the fact that, apparently, a foreign government identified an American Citizen and had operatives attack that individual? On US Soil? I wonder if there will be hit squads next, or teams of operatives attempting to sabotage servers where proxies are being hosted...
This is exactly why free speech is so critical - so that I can, for example, post a comment on Slashdot without worrying about thugs attacking me for it. Flames and trolls are one thing, angry guys throwing rocks at my car? Quite another.
Never underestimate the potential of Human stupidity. -Heinlein
They are desperate as they influence around the world shrinks after more moderate US goverment came into power.
So Democracy in Iraq, neighbors to Iran, had no influence at all on Iranians *also* wanting real elections?
I'm not saying having a more moderate U.S. president come into power. But let's not heap glory on only one side while forgetting (or trying to bury) the history that made this point possible.
And speaking of moderate administrations, if students here and abroad are willing to take hits, perhaps the President of the U.S. should be as well. And before you repeat the mistaken idea that Iran will crack down harder if the U.S. spoke in support of the protestors, jut what do you think is happening today? Just what do you think is going to happen tomorrow, as Iran ha already warned? Expressing support and best wishes for the protestors gives them a boost in spirit that they need if they are to succeed. Even the president of France has come out strongly in favor of the protestors...
I only want the best for Iranians as well, as one of my friends grew up in Iran. That is why I am so dissatisfied with the lack of upper level support to date.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yes, Islam is a religion of peace, but that didn't stop some Muslims from flying planes into the WTC, nor does it stop them from strapping on bombs and blowing people up.
Christianity is a religion of peace, but that doesn't stop some from murdering abortion activists. Every group has its extremist nutjobs.
Free Martian Whores!
The department of homeland security should be all over that soon if they aren't too busy confiscating laptops at the airports......
protesting is considered low-level terrorism now..
He should google Daniel Pearl to know what he's getting into.
I too wish everyone respected each other in a peaceful fashion but clearly that's not the case.
a religion of peace
There is no such thing.
Google and Facebook are supporting Persian before they release support for Klingon?!? WTF?!? Man, there is one set of geeks with really misplaced priorities!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Time for this guy to get a conceal carry permit, a handgun, and most importantly, the training to know when to use the above. Online we defend ourselves with munitions known as anonymity and encryption. In real life we use body armor and small arms.
---- Liquid was a patriot ----
...and blamed it on a White man. Al Sharpton even got in on it, and never apologized for it after it was proved false. So then, what was your point?
Hey I resemble that remark!
--
My tin foil hat is now gold with a 0.1 micron filter playing illegally downloaded music while I'm being followed by men from the RIAA in dark suits who are listening to illegally downloaded music from my tin hat.
In my other life, I eat cats.
This isn't about democracy, although many people claim it is.
If Mousavi had won and violent protests had started in the face of electoral fraud, the press would be condemning the protesters as a violent minority clinging to a past order. Similarly, if the protest had started in the middle of Ahmadinejad's term, to oust him out, the press and most people living in the west would side with them. This is good, this is healthy. It'd be healthier if people acknowledged that is has nothing to do with democracy. If Mousavi will be less repressive than Ahmadinejad, then he should take his place, regardless of what the polls say.
\u262D = \u5350
We have foreigners representing a foreign government attacking a US citizen on US soil for political and religious reasons. That's terrorism by definition. The Administration Party Line is "lone nuts" and there's no attempt to investigate the organizations they are connected to.
We have a plague of right-wing extremists killing Americans for political and religious reasons. That's terrorism by definition. The Administration Party Line is "lone nuts" and there's no attempt to investigate the organizations they are connected to.
Where the hell is the FBI and DHS?
ON what planet is this supposed to be "Change We Can Believe In?"
Tech Public Policy stuff
pay the price
not a hero, unless you die
there are others, pick whichever sounds awesomer to you
wish i could be like him
Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
Is no way to scare people into silence. A suspicious suicide or burglary would still work better.
Quack, quack.
your idea here is just going to promote a whole lot of nothing. Oh, it will provoke serious Iranian hatred of the US though.
Condemn an entire country's culture?
That's like condemning the country North Korea for what is the choice of a dictator. It's not the country's fault that they're basically living at gunpoint. I don't like XYZ object but condemning it does nothing.
Why don't you go back to whatever you support when you use logic instead of what I am replying to on this one.
cba to make account, but it's me, can e-mail on ph.on.twitter@gmail.com if you want to confirm
Just wanting to say:
1) I agree that this was not agency work, but nationalists.
2) I had no clue how serious this was when I started, and by the time I took measures of security, it was too late
3) I tried to have my personal info pulled from twitter, but they gave me form letter about deleting my account. Boo @twitter.
4) Want to say thank you to all of the private sector security people who offered to advise/help
5) go to http://iran.whyweprotest.net to see how you can help
6) There are other reports of odd things happening to other prominent Americans. Cars trailing, seen parked outside their homes. I can't confirm these, but just saying, if you are involved in any major way (beyond proxies/tor setup), please be careful.
Wish I had mod points to bump you up.
Good thing you don't then. GP is a troll; has made the same post elsewhere on this topic, as well as several previous Iranian topics. Was soundly refuted last time. (Hint: The US's deserves a lot of blame.)
Practice Kind Randomness and Beautiful Acts of Nonsense.
Damn, that actually makes me respect Kos a little. Really, who the fuck cries for mercenaries? Kinda the point of the job, really.
I mean, no one wants to be a mercenary and have people mount vigils when they're captured or speak tearful eulogies when they die, otherwise you lose the whole mystique of the profession.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Given that Iran is operating under an authoritarian government, I would have thought that just shutting everything down would be quite possible. Cut all internet connections from the country save for a few government agencies, done. I can understand the difficulties in providing selective access across the board but I would have thought it would be simple enough for them to pull the plug. The only reason why they aren't must be because they are more reliant on the internet across their entire economy than I previously suspected -- they can't afford to pull the plug.
That even an authoritarian government run by unpleasant people have trouble with this is encouraging; I would hope censorship in western democracies would be even less successful.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Every group has its extremist nutjobs.
When was the last time you heard of an extremist Agnostic fundamentalist? A man willing to give his life for the proposition that there may or may not be a god?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Unless your adulterous sister is inside.
Assuming this story is true, I'd be concerned that this is an attempt to draw the US Government into a confrontation that will help the hard-liners in Iran. As for who would want such a thing.
Clearly the hard-liners would like to try, once again, to get people to rally behind them in the face of "the great satan." You'd also have to look at the US Neocons, many of whom would like to remove any sympathy for Iran or Iranians that gets in the way of their long-disgraced axis-of-evil BS. And then there is Israel. At least some in Israel are on the same page as the neocons, though I wouldn't want to suggest that their position is universally held.
Anyway, I'm suspicious of the motives of anyone who wants to use this as anything but a reason to get the cops and/or FBI on the case.
The fact that such actions are actually reasonably justifiable from their sacred texts doesn't help their case.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
to intimidate individuals, a group, or nation to advance political goals.
Doesn't matter whether you agree with both the Iranian crazies attacking people on behalf of the tyrannical Iranian regime or the anti-abortion fetus fanatics or both. (I presume both from the content of your post.)
Doesn't matter if you simply think it impolite to call people who commit political violence terrorists.
It's STILL terrorism.
No matter how much you 'understand what's driving those people even if you can't publicly condone their methods'.
Tech Public Policy stuff
The men, who appeared to ProtesterHelp to be either Iranian or Lebanese, drove up besides him and threw rocks at him while shouting,
Try that around here. The headline would read something like Mystery Attackers Killed In Hail of Gunfire - Bystanders join police shooting at attackers in van.
I'm always surprised reading about incidents like that. I guess when you live farther from town you don't depend on the cops for protection. The only thing they could do getting here 15 minutes later is fill out the reports.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Google et. al. can support pro-democracy movements... when they aren't in important emerging markets like China.
This exact comment was posted as-is a few days ago somewhere in here. I also found it (by googling the first sentence) on another blog as well. I find it very strange to have someone copy and paste their thoughts all over the place.
I bet all those people who blithely sat on their hands while Iran developed rock-throwing technology must be feeling pretty foolish.
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
I'm a big fan of the Buddhist Extremists. "The world is an Illusion, so to destroy it, I set myself on fire!"
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
Hi, I'm Troy McLure. You may know from such films as "Adolf Hitler, Mass-murdering Maniac or Fun-loving Vegetarian?" and "Pol Pot, Socialist Revolutionary With A Heart". Today, I'm trolling on Slashdot, supporting another great beacon of freedom and justice, Ali Khamenei, the kind of guy that should be running every country.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I would argue that a country is not a monolithic entity as you seem to imply. A country is made up of citizens, and the rights of the citizens to voice their opinions, I would argue, is a fundamental human right.
When we invade countries for no reason, I agree with you. But when we facilitate communication among disenfranchised citizenry, I'd say we're not meddling at all. We open the door for the individual humans in Iran trying to get to a representative democracy. They either walk through it, or don't.
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
Good thing you don't then. GP is a troll; has made the same post elsewhere on this topic, as well as several previous Iranian topics. Was soundly refuted last time. (Hint: The US's deserves a lot of blame.)
I'm sorry, but I don't speak redneckese. The US's what?
Advice: on VPS providers
Condemn an entire country's culture?
*cough* Nazi Germany *cough*
Advice: on VPS providers
The link provided says Iran should do this:
- remove Ahmadinejad
- recognize Mousavi as president
This suggestion is not democracy at all. Ahmadinejad won the election according to the results.
From what I have seen, the Mousavi party is not meeting the legal requirements to protest the results and is instead encouraging people to protest directly through civil disobedience. One would have to guess that this is because Mousavi knows he lost and the correct process would prove that.
As a democratic country the courts should decide where recounts are appropriate and whether fraud may have been committed.
After all... according to this guys logic, we should have had Gore in office 9 years ago instead of Bush. I mean that whole thing went through the US supreme courts and they came to the correct decision (didn't they?)
The problem I see with most opinions on this whole thing is that our opinions are formed on the reports from Euro/America media sources. There is a definite dislike for Ahmadinejad due to the negative and embarassing comments from him about the West. But in my opinion, the majority of what he says (in english at least) is entirely correct. Most of what I hear about Ahmadinejad comes not from his mouth, but from summarize of what others reporters say he said. Then when I hear his point of view... it is entirely different and taken out of context.
I don't know who should be in office over there. But to assume we know what the majority of people in Iran want just because one leader suits our taste more then the other is ignorant. To pretend that you know and act upon it is to support the US propaganda machine.
Additionally: throwing rocks at the car of someone who's political views you do not like... that is not terrorism. Although expanding the scope of 'terrorist' is a fun past-time.
Here I am! No, seriously, this is the only belief I'm willing to give my life. Provided that it won't hurt. And that it won't be too dirty to clean up afterwards.
Ezekiel 23:20
What if the tanned foreigner has a heavy accent, changing the quality of the vowel?
Ezekiel 23:20
Hear, hear! GGP is Definitely a troll.
Let's also not forget that Iran is firmly seated in the 'first world' and is in no way a 2nd/3rd world country. How many 3rd world countries are able to even consider developing nuclear technology?
FBI knows how to find these guys, and detain them for as long as possible before filing charges. You can bet there will be (non-torture) interrogations. The FBI has plenty of federal laws they can throw at these guys, can work with your local DA, and ICE, not to mention get the warrants to track who these guys are talking to and who else might be a threat to you.
The United States NEEDS you to report ANY activity of this kind immediately.
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/fo.htm
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
No necessarily true-- there are some religions that evolved to combat these extreme religions. Most of these religions simply preach that "if you are a good person then it's all good. Doesn't matter which religion you belong too." Of course this is not a basic tenant of the Middle eastern religions (Christianity, Islam etc) but they do exists. These religions generally gain members when confronted by one of the violent religions. This gives people 3 choices - "convert" to the violent religion, join another violent religion and fight (and maybe die), or join a defensives religion. Of course many of these defensives religions have now been co-opted by extremists...
NO religion is a religion of peace...
Did you know, that the Quakers (a religious group) were awarded the Nobel peace prize?
By George Friedman
Related Link
* The Geopolitics of Iran: Holding the Center of a Mountain Fortress
Related Special Topic Page
* The Iranian Presidential Elections
In 1979, when we were still young and starry-eyed, a revolution took place in Iran. When I asked experts what would happen, they divided into two camps.
The first group of Iran experts argued that the Shah of Iran would certainly survive, that the unrest was simply a cyclical event readily manageable by his security, and that the Iranian people were united behind the Iranian monarch's modernization program. These experts developed this view by talking to the same Iranian officials and businessmen they had been talking to for years -- Iranians who had grown wealthy and powerful under the shah and who spoke English, since Iran experts frequently didn't speak Farsi all that well.
The second group of Iran experts regarded the shah as a repressive brute, and saw the revolution as aimed at liberalizing the country. Their sources were the professionals and academics who supported the uprising -- Iranians who knew what former Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ruholla Khomeini believed, but didn't think he had much popular support. They thought the revolution would result in an increase in human rights and liberty. The experts in this group spoke even less Farsi than the those in the first group.
Misreading Sentiment in Iran
Limited to information on Iran from English-speaking opponents of the regime, both groups of Iran experts got a very misleading vision of where the revolution was heading -- because the Iranian revolution was not brought about by the people who spoke English. It was made by merchants in city bazaars, by rural peasants, by the clergy -- people Americans didn't speak to because they couldn't. This demographic was unsure of the virtues of modernization and not at all clear on the virtues of liberalism. From the time they were born, its members knew the virtue of Islam, and that the Iranian state must be an Islamic state.
Americans and Europeans have been misreading Iran for 30 years. Even after the shah fell, the myth has survived that a mass movement of people exists demanding liberalization -- a movement that if encouraged by the West eventually would form a majority and rule the country. We call this outlook "iPod liberalism," the idea that anyone who listens to rock 'n' roll on an iPod, writes blogs and knows what it means to Twitter must be an enthusiastic supporter of Western liberalism. Even more significantly, this outlook fails to recognize that iPod owners represent a small minority in Iran -- a country that is poor, pious and content on the whole with the revolution forged 30 years ago.
There are undoubtedly people who want to liberalize the Iranian regime. They are to be found among the professional classes in Tehran, as well as among students. Many speak English, making them accessible to the touring journalists, diplomats and intelligence people who pass through. They are the ones who can speak to Westerners, and they are the ones willing to speak to Westerners. And these people give Westerners a wildly distorted view of Iran. They can create the impression that a fantastic liberalization is at hand -- but not when you realize that iPod-owning Anglophones are not exactly the majority in Iran.
Last Friday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was re-elected with about two-thirds of the vote. Supporters of his opponent, both inside and outside Iran, were stunned. A poll revealed that former Iranian Prime Minister Mir Hossein Mousavi was beating Ahmadinejad. It is, of course, interesting to meditate on how you could conduct a poll in a country where phones are not universal, and making a call once you have found a phone can be a trial. A poll therefore would probably reach people who had phones and lived in Tehran and other urban areas. Among those, Mousavi probably did win. But outside Tehran, and beyond persons easy to p
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
By that logic, would the East be morally justified in destroying American nuclear weapons facilities?
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If you'd care to compare the number of Christian abortion activists to the number of Muslim car bombers I think you'll find a difference in the number of attacks.
While it's true that all groups have "extremist nutjobs" it's only a partial story. There ARE differences in scope and frequency. Large differences.
I would be interested in seeing some actual statistics, comparing suicide bomber rates to abortion-related attacks.
I'd take that to mean that he's guessing that they were Iranian or Lebanese. There's no common element in those two ethnicities that distinguishes them from Jordanians, Syrians or what have you. You might recognize an Iranian by face, dress or (obviously) language but not "either Iranian or Lebanese".
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I would say "can't stop the signal" would be more applicable to this case.
An American civilian is providing a means of communication that a government wants suppressed.
He wasn't telling anyone how to do anything, he was helping a country's citizens get around that government's restrictions.
When I was discussing whether or not Islam was peaceful, a Muslim friend of mine explained to me that Islam is a religion of peace during a time of peace and a religion of war during a time of war. That seems a lot more realistic than politically-motivated rhetoric that you hear people say.
According to the Quran, Mohammad was both a reformer and a general. According to the Bible, Jesus was also a reformer but ultimately let himself be killed when confronted with violence (which is why some Christians, like the Quakers, are pacifists).
Plus the "Meddlers" in this case would be the oppressive government, which is exactly what River Tam was talking about.
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Iranian Rednecks
By that logic, would the East be morally justified in destroying American nuclear weapons facilities?
No, because the western democracies do not conduct themselves in the same way as the tyrants that run places like Iran and North Korea. Western governments don't make fist-shaking speeches that include discussions about their glorious nuclear programs and also about wiping another country and its people off the map.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
So Pinocchio was not able to verify a story posted by the Baron Munchausen.
I think that's a bit glib. At least a significant portion of the Blackwater people, at least the ones actually on the ground, are just former soldiers who traded up to an employer who would give them better body armor.
Now if you're explicitly talking about someone who is willing to fight for anyone who pays enough money, no questions asked, then of course they don't deserve any sympathy. But I don't think there are really that many people like that.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
If you think of "authoritarian" and "not-authoritarian" as a binary switch between extremes, and if you assume that an authoritarian government not only is absolutely authoritarian in structure, but also of perfect in loyalty to the leadership and competence, that assumption would be natural.
Reality doesn't quite work that way, and particularly not in the present situation in Iraq. It probably doesn't help the authoritarians that the "opposition" includes people who are former high ranking government officials with lots of contacts in and through the government at all levels, and that some are, in fact, current senior leaders*. Even authoritarian regimes don't have governments that are from top to bottom composed of mindless drones with unquestioning loyalty to the leader.
Mousavi was the last Prime Minister of Iraq before the position was abolished in 1989; among others in the opposition, Mohammad Khatami is the most recent former President of Iran, and Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani is Khatami's predecessor as President and, perhaps more importantly, the current chair of the Assembly of Experts (a body whose official duties include supervising, electing, and dismissing the Supreme Leader), and there are others in positions of power that are either aligned with the opposition or, at the least, not committed to backing Khamenei and Ahmadinejad.
If the South still had slavery, would you have been one of the folk saying we just let the South get around to freeing the slaves on their own time?
Sometimes, the folk in power have enough power to ensure the folk who don't (that constitute 99% of the country) won't ever get a chance to change things.
I remember Tiananmen Square, and how very very sad I was that the only thing we seemed to be willing to do was watch.
I'm not saying Iran is in that spot, but I'm sure as hell not going to avoid lending a hand to the ones who want to get the truth out, just because that might cause the world to label us "busibodies".
PS. People hate the US for all sorts of reasons, but the primary still in this day and age isn't because we were busibodies but because we spent 50 years playing puppet masters who were willing to prop up even the most reprehensible leader of a country if that meant that it wasn't friends with the Soviets.
If it becomes a civil war, the opposition has lost (the existing regime has, too.) A win meanings getting the organs of government that that are currently not intervening (particularly the Guardian Council) to act on their demands.
The opposition being armed for war by foreigners is not going to promote the outcome they are seeking.
do not have a monopoly on the concept of martyrdom
anyone who sacrifices flesh and blood for a noble common cause is instantly elevated to heroic status to be emulated
whether or not this ohio guy's story is true, the ayatollah's warning today means a lot of blood is going to flow soon enough in tehran and anywhere else in the world serious targets run to
but take note, you basij assholes, while you murder your fellow countrymen who simply want a less intolerant life in iran: you are creating martyrs, and we are watching
who are we who are watching? no, not your tired traditional bogeymen of the imperialist american or the colonial british. we are the world, and we see what the truth is, and this has nothing to with meddling foreign powers. it has everything to do with good iranians honestly and organically wanting to make a better country
and we see the tiananmen square bullshit you are about to pull. and you will murder many. and you are not making a stronger iran, you are making a weaker one. because you are killing your better selves
fuck you basij assholes. however religious you think you are, you are most certainly going to whatever hell your religion affords you for the actions you are about to unleash
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I advise caution in believing this story. ProtesterHelp, earlier today, was spreading false information that Mousavi had been arrested on Twitter. The combination makes me suspect attention whoring in lieu of truth.
Philip Sandifer's academic website
You don't want to go there buddy... As far as crimes justified by one's understanding of religion, both religions are guilty of a huge number of them.
We aren't talking about the whole period of existence of the religions being compared. Thus, we aren't talking about Muhammad's initial conquests, or Crusades and the Inquisition. We talking about "here and now" - the present days that we live in.
And yes, I'm pretty sure that, when you look at it that way, the numbers will be extremely skewed towards Islamic terrorism.
and don't get me started on those extremist agnostics...
Wait. So some guy in the US with a twitter account is attacked by what is definitely implied to be Basij militia, and it makes news on some buried diary on a political activist blog? What? The guy didn't have a guts to carve an A into his own cheek? (At least an 'A' is symmetric.)
The "Democracy in Iraq" hasn't been considered much of a showpiece for emulation outside of the same group of people in the West who were cheerleaders for the war in the first place.
True. But I doubt there would have been the need to rig the vote if Hussein was still in charge of Iraq. Removing Iraq as a threat enabled people to focus on things beyond their immediate security.
Some people^H^H^H^H^H^Hextremists would count every doctor who is willing to perform a first-week abortion as an pro-abortion activist.
Others would count anyone who "enables" them to stay in business, including their staff, their bank, and even members of the local police department who arrest people who threaten said doctors.
Some would count everyone who openly says abortion is murder as an anti-abortion activist.
As for Christian abortion activists, there are Christians in both groups.
So, depending on who gets to define Christian abortion activist, the number of abortion activists may be very high.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
if only they allowed concealed carry on campuses, we'd have a few less rock throwers in this country. . .
Yeah. Why throw rocks, when you could just shoot him dead? Seems more efficient.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Your post is far too meta, 'though you're spot on.
This one has no chance!
Wikileaks, no DNS
First I'll say that violence is 100% uncalled for, but I wouldn't doubt if the U.S. government is using the private but publicly funded "Endowment for Democracy" to interfere with Iran's election to help bring about the regime change the neo-cons have been gunning for, for a decade now. Imagine if it was found out that Chinese agents were interfering with our governance wouldn't that piss you off?
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Endowment_for_Democracy
http://www.iefd.org/articles/trojan_horse.php
I can't prove this is happening of course but it would very consistent with previous covert U.S. interventions in other countries like Guatemala, Iran, Iraq, etc. My gut feeling is, is that is awfully perfectly timed and heavily pushed by the MSM to be a 100% spontaneous uprising. Again I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that there is more going on here than we are been told about.
What scares me is that an increasingly hawkish foreign policy will probably get almost no domestic opposition in the U.S. as neo-con Republicans are already behind it, and many naive "liberal" do gooder type won't question ANYTHING done by Obama (who I voted for BTW, mistake). Now more than ever it's time for Ron Paul authentic conservatives and lefty activists like myself to share notes IMO as the "center" gets increasingly imperialistic and bloodthirsty.
Go ahead and flame me and mod me down, I've got karma to burn, shrug
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
Maybe because they've been so indoctrinated to follow the current system due to the fact that the United States fully supported (financially and intelligence-wise) the Shah overthrowing the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED government of Iran in 1953 due to the government at that time moving towards nationalizing the iranian oil fields which would have severely cut into British oil company's profits.
I wonder, is Ohio a "shall-issue" state for concealed carry? Rocks can be lethal, and if anyone was throwing rocks at me to make a political point, I'd sure as hell want to be carrying something rather more effective.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
a religion of peace
There is no such thing.
Yes there is. You just have to remember that the actions of the few do not necessarily represent the beliefs of the many. In the case of radicals, by definitions they do not represent the beliefs of the many.
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
I know! --It's beyond cartoonish. It's beyond silly. But people actually eat this stuff up.
"Mission Accomplished!" --Bush in flight gear. It's SO dumb, but so are the people it's being aimed at, so yes, it will work.
Iranian civilians will be piled up in smoldering mountains of twisted limbs thanks to the 19 year-olds quivering with patriotic pride who will be dropping American bombs on them.
This stupid shit works for the same reason that people's mouths fill with gobs of Pavlovian saliva when they see a big yellow 'M'.
-FL
"By that logic, would the East be morally justified in destroying American nuclear weapons facilities?"
Since "morals" are arbitrary and subjective, why not?
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Daily Kos? On Slashdot? That and Huffington Post is why every self-respecting person abandoned Digg long before the end of the last election. Please don't pollute /. too.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
At least a significant portion of the Blackwater people, at least the ones actually on the ground, are just former soldiers who traded up to an employer who would give them better body armor.
You know that how?
I, having worked for BW (and a couple of other DoD contractors), can tell you that most everyone I worked with was there because they pay obscene amounts of money.
Maybe it is more a case of "Not this shit again". We have had this argument so many times, and there are no new points, that it just becomes tedious.
"I think that's a bit glib. At least a significant portion of the Blackwater people, at least the ones actually on the ground, are just former soldiers who traded up to an employer who would give them better body armor"
And a $50,000 a year pay rise.
Most soldiers can't wait to go home. Out of the soldiers who finish their service there's a tiny fraction that can't wait to get back and make $80k a year and not be bound by *any* law or code regarding their behavior.
Blackwater et al are largely a self selecting group, those that *want* to be in a war zone.
Any if they *choose* to go back into a war zone - not under the flag of their government but under a private army then it doesn't have anything to do with body armour (or patriotism) at all.
It's money. Or something worse - the thrill.
So yes they're mercenaries by definition.
I think that's a bit glib. At least a significant portion of the Blackwater people, at least the ones actually on the ground, are just former soldiers who traded up to an employer who would fail at trying to save money by not giving proper armor or support.
There fixed that for you. Bleating the mantra privatized == good may get you karma from various politcal groups astroturfing here, but doesn't match with reality. Reality is that arrangments are better or worse on a case by case basis. In the case of Blackwater, its far, far more expensive for the country to outsource to 'Backwater' mecrenaries than to maintain their own, comparatively competent, comparatively low-cost units:
Blackwater rentacops couldn't handle regular army so they cover all the "safe" zones for tightwad company with political connections and get their asses handed back to them. That's epic fail all around: less efficient, more expensive, bad press.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
First the "brutal Islamic Theocracy" is about half as "brutal" as the "Brutal Facist Dictator" that the US installed was for starters so if you're a yank you've got very little room to talk about the state of governance in that country.
Second I never said anything about being "genetically predisposed" to one view or another so you're talking out of your backside. As if you can be genetically predisposed to a political view, talk about racism.
The people who openly supported democracy in the 1960's were killed by those who (with the full backing of the US and UK) did not. So were many of their children. Out of the remainder of people against the Shah many ran for the cover of extreme religion and many continued to survive the Dictatorship by appearing supportive or keeping their heads down...as people do when being subjected to the horrors of tyranny. Finally the US puppet and his US trained secret police became far too unbearable for both groups of the remainder and they joined forces and overthrew him and his small group of followers. Unfortunately for the pro-democracy faction due to the purges they numbered many less than those who had run for extreme religion who cited "democracy" as the reason they had had all this tyranny, suffering and bloodshed - who had largely been left alone by the Shah - and so lacking numbers were forced out.
*One generation later* the remainders children are becoming politically aware, the old guard of "conservatives" many of whom are anti-democracy *because* of what they saw and lived though LAST TIME they tried it are dying off and losing political power and lo and behold...a pro-democracy movement driven by this generation is afoot.
This has all happened within two generations, the boomer generation that is still alive *today* were the 20 somethings when the US's disgusting dictator was torturing and executing them and their parents and enforcing tyranny on them. It's *their* children now that are the twenty somethings who are starting with a clean slate and don't have the baggage that their parents do which allowed the "anti-democracy / anti-US" extremists to hold power for awhile, that are pushing for democracy again.
Regarding the Soviet Union...So 70 years ago the pro-democracy agitators were purged then their grandchildren demanded democracy.
Thanks for making my argument.
The Iranians have every right to be sore at the US, half the people alive today in Iran suffered under the US's murderous puppet. Only the most blind nationalist would say otherwise.
There the politician has come to be looked upon as the very scum of society.")
I don't think that's an 'American' thing. Here in Europe, they are just as worse , and there are a lot more of them.
Never trust a politician.
Slipping shoelaces ?
I do not admire Blackwater in any shape or form.
My understanding is that they recruit from soldiers who've finished a tour of duty by offering them higher pay and what at least might sound like a sweeter gig. I have no personal knowledge of this, that's only what I remember reading.
From that perspective, I can't blame the people recruited that way for joining a bad organization. I think you could call them sell-outs or something similar, but my point was that I believe that to claim that a particular human life is beyond sympathy is a foolish thing to say when you know nothing about that particular human.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
I just can't stand blanket contempt for any group, self-selecting or not, without regard for the fact that not all people within that group have the same circumstances.
Yes I agree that the use of mercenaries systematically creates bad results. But I hate the idea of assuming that all people who sign into a bad system signed into it for bad reasons.
You could say that I hate misdirected hate. Any form of contempt should be focused as tight as a laser beam, both to avoid any damage to bystanders and to maximize its potential for incinerating the target.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
I despise the "this is one of the oldest cultures on earth" comments. Bull fucking shit. You want to know the oldest cultures on earth? South African bushmen. 10,000+ years.
Someone remember Hiroshima
Yes. The Japanese, who started that conflict and who were busy raping their way around the Pacific Rim (literally), sure were lucky to get a wake-up call from two small nukes so that hundreds of thousands or millions more of their people didn't die in the ground invasion that would otherwise would have been necessary to shut down what they started.
Why you prefer the horrors of being shot to pieces or burned alive in "conventional" attacks that kill many more people is something of a mystery, but hey, if you're a sadist you're a sadist, I guess.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Twice? Actually it's only about 1.76 times. What's the SI unit of brutality, while we're here?
Anyway, it sounds awfully like the "two wrongs make a right" fallacy.
Why? Aren't they entitled to an opinion? What about the ones who were too young to vote back then - what fault to they have? And you have the nerve to accuse others of racism...
Sounds awfully like the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" fallacy.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
1. the situation in iran is the fault of the usa. therefore, since the usa is responsible for events there, the usa should do more, perhaps invade, since, as YOU assert (not me), the usa is responsible for every goddamn thing by the most creative of lines of reasoning
2. the situation in iran is the fault of iranians. including daily chants for 30 years of "death to the usa". (a country that voraciously antagonistic to the usa is still a pawn of the usa??? how the hell does that work in your mind exactly???)
its called personal responsibility. you see it on the public AND private spheres: people who remain mired in awful positions in life, partly out of a system of rationalization and learned helplessness which blames all of their slights and difficulties on someone else. rather than shutting up, picking themselves up, and bettering themselves. i have a good idea of what your personal psychology is like, the way you think about world politics
the usa did plenty of vile things in the cold war. britain did plenty of things in the colonial era. did you happen to notice the cold war ended 20 years ago and the colonial era ended in world war ii? no: apparently you, and the propagandizers in tehran, think that therefore there are an endless supply of american and british secret agents hard at work plotting the downfall of iran. that enemies of iran are alwas lurking in the shadows, ready to spring out like BOGEYMEN to destroy the country. because apparently russia and great britain are still playing the great game in central asia. because apparently the usa is still concerned about tehran falling under the sway of communist moscow. pffffffft
as supposed to gee, i dunno, native born iranians who love iran who are just pulling for a better country? naaah, impossible! clearly the dominant narrative here is spy vs spy hijinks going on in the shadows, just as the propagandizers in tehran assert
you're fucking patehtic the way you think about your world
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
That's all they pay?!?!
Damn..I'd have figured it would be much more than that...that is shit money for that type of risk.
I'd have thought easily in the 6 figure range.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Relax. The AC GP cut/pasted this from an earlier comment in a similar discussion about Iran's post-election communications.
GP: Please don't crib other people's posts. If you aren't original enough to come up with your own well-thought troll, don't bother. Maybe practice on your own for awhile, and start posting when you someday (hopefully) have a fresh thought pop into your head, and can muster the brainpower to write a coherent sentence or two on your own. Plagiarism is such an ugly thing.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
What's wrong with that?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Any if they *choose* to go back into a war zone - not under the flag of their government but under a private army then it doesn't have anything to do with body armour (or patriotism) at all.
Not necessarily. While I'm not trying to defend Blackwater (especially with regard to their conduct toward civilians), I do think there is a role for having specialized guards for diplomats and dignitaries. The U.S. Army doesn't train all that much for such a role, so companies like Blackwater get called on to fill the gap.
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
We open the door for the individual humans in Iran trying to get to a representative democracy
What's the difference between being controlled by the Mullahs, and being controlled by 51% of the population?
What Iran needs is a push for individual rights, that is, the idea that an individual is free, regardless of what the Mullah's or the majority tell them to do.
Mine is Good
I believe Ohio has reciprocity with Florida, but i'd have to check. I've not traveled through there recently - I mean, seriously, WTF is there in Ohio?
I've been posting cloud-hosted proxies for a few days now, and I've not bothered covering up my contact info. Can you imagine what a couple of dead Iranians in rural Arkansas, outside the house of someone verifiably helping Iranians communicate would do to their cause?
Learn about Photography Basics.
Traditionally the US Marine Corp has defended embassies --- the problem of course is that they have to be in uniform to comply w/ treaty requirements &c. (as would the Army) Hence the perceived need for a civilian group to do this.
I believe though, that rather than contract this out to the lowest (or only) bidder that they should create a division of the state department to provide such services --- much more accountability and controllability. Okay, so one loses the easy ability to cancel the contract, but aren't long-term commitments for this sort of thing better?
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
The trouble with organized religions is that they are ultimately controlled by men, and any religion will sooner or later be controlled by men who do not believe the tenets of the religion, but use it as a tool of personal gain.
Free Martian Whores!
If you're not a pacifist and you consider yourself a Christian, you're fooling yourself. Christs's whole message was about forgiveness. If one's not a pacifist, he will not turn the other cheek, nor will he forgive -- he'll fight back. He will not do good to those who harm him, he will not love those who hate him.
Free Martian Whores!
Of course it'd be preferable to have a government department responsible for this sort of thing. The problem is, the need for large quantities of bodyguards was one of the many things that were not anticipated before the war. Therefore, in my opinion, using private security contractors like Blackwater is acceptable until we can get such an agency up and running.
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
Tell that to John "Bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-bomb-Iran" McCain.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca