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Hackable In-Car GPS Unit?

gigne writes "I'm in the market for a new, in-car GPS/sat nav. I am preferably looking for one that has live, up-to-date traffic information and route planning that doesn't make you want to cry. I'm not quite dumb enough to drive off a cliff, but something that doesn't even try and lead me to watery doom is preferable. The only thing I absolutely must have is the ability to hack it. It would be preferable if it ran GNU/Linux, but given a convincing argument, I would be swayed to another OS. Without wanting the Moon on a stick, what is the best device that would offer a decent modding community and a good feature set?"

208 comments

  1. Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Tmobile G1 running telenav.

    bam. done.

    1. Re:Android by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Tmobile G1 running telenav.

      Maybe a Nokia N810 or N800 (with an external Bluetooth GPS).

      I grabbed a Kogan GPS Watch for AU$129 and paired it with my Nokia N800, which works fine. You can use the default Wayfinder Navigator application for a fee, or try any of the free GPS/Nav packages available. Maemo Mapper is good if you don't want route planning, while Navit looks like a promising contender for an open-source car navigation system with routing engine.

      The underlying OS is Maemo, a Debian port optimised for the N8xx/ARMs. Very easy to hack with, and nicely robust too.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
  2. Proprietary Issues by juanergie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Companies comercializing GPS devices are in the business of making money. I am inclined to believe you would run into proprietary and legal stuff should you plan to hack or reverse-engineer the device. Maybe some provide an API?

    --
    Aeroespacio.org
    1. Re:Proprietary Issues by loufoque · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is perfectly legal to do whatever you fucking want with an electronic device you own, at least in most countries.

    2. Re:Proprietary Issues by JobyOne · · Score: 1

      Unless that would involve breaking or circumventing any encryption, for any reason (at least in the USA)...stupid DMCA.

      --
      Porquoi?
    3. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      It is perfectly legal to do whatever you fucking want with an electronic device you own, at least in most countries.

      Excellent. I shall now go around bludgeoning people with my keyboard.

    4. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Unfortunately that is only true if it does not involve software or data.

    5. Re:Proprietary Issues by juanergie · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't doubt it is, but please check this site where they explain reverse engineering further: http://www.chillingeffects.org/reverse/faq.cgi

      --
      Aeroespacio.org
    6. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Unfortunately that is only true if it does not involve software or data.

      You're the guy who wants to go bludgeoning people with his keyboard, aren't you?

    7. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I hope that is an IBM Model M keyboard, otherwise you will just end up breaking your keyboard.

    8. Re:Proprietary Issues by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Informative

      What he proposes would be quite legal in the USA even if part of the firmware is encrypted. Breaking DMCA-protected encryption for interoperability is explicitly allowed.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    9. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who told you that?

    10. Re:Proprietary Issues by westlake · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is perfectly legal to do whatever you fucking want with an electronic device you own, at least in most countries.

      Never without qualifications. For example:

      Microwave radiation.
      Basic electrical safety.
      Eavesdropping on protected frequencies. {Cell phones][Radar]
      RFI

      There is surely the potential for civil liability:

      Your device catches fire and incinerates your cousin's $56,000 daysailer.
      You taser-shock your girl friend.
      Your faulty navigational display sends your mother-in-law off a cliff.

         

    11. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey, what me and my girlfriend do in the privacy of our bedroom is no business of yours!

    12. Re:Proprietary Issues by eln · · Score: 4, Funny

      Your faulty navigational display sends your mother-in-law off a cliff.

      That's not faulty, it's working precisely as intended.

    13. Re:Proprietary Issues by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, it is illegal to eavesdrop on protected frequencies. But it is not illegal to modify a radio set to do so.

      You can do whatever you want with an electronic device you own. But if you do something illegal with said modified device, you'll get in trouble for doing the illegal thing. Not for modifying the device.

      As it should be.

    14. Re:Proprietary Issues by socsoc · · Score: 1

      Yeah don't taser her bro. You don't want your girlfriend to end up as a melted pile of plastic...

      Also, your nav system sounds perfectly functional to me, some might consider paying extra for that feature.

    15. Re:Proprietary Issues by angelwolf71885 · · Score: 0

      or for adding functionality...

    16. Re:Proprietary Issues by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Unless that would involve breaking or circumventing any encryption, for any reason (at least in the USA)...stupid DMCA.

      More specifically, you cannot traffic in tools that make it possible for others to do that. It's also not true that it is disallowed for any reason ... there are exceptions and that list gets updated from time to time. It's still bullshit, but it's not absolute.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    17. Re:Proprietary Issues by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 0, Redundant

      If you plan on bludgeoning people with a keyboard I recommend a Model M. The steel plate adds stability and mass.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    18. Re:Proprietary Issues by Panzor · · Score: 1

      >some might consider paying extra for that feature.

      Actually, TomTom already has that ability - for free.
      http://garmingpsunit.findfastr.com/garmin-gps-devices/glados-voice-for-tomtom-gps-devices
      Oh Glados...

    19. Re:Proprietary Issues by Repossessed · · Score: 1

      In this state its illegal just to have devices that *can* be modified to do certain illegal acts (like changing MAC addresses...)

      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    20. Re:Proprietary Issues by dlgeek · · Score: 1
      That's not true. The modification itself is illegal. 47 CFR 15.121(f):

      (f) Scanning receivers shall have a label permanently affixed to the product, and this label shall be readily visible to the purchaser at the time of purchase. The label shall read as follows:

      WARNING: MODIFICATION OF THIS DEVICE TO RECEIVE CELLULAR RADIOTELEPHONE SERVICE SIGNALS IS PROHIBITED UNDER FCC RULES AND FEDERAL LAW.

    21. Re:Proprietary Issues by dlgeek · · Score: 1

      Changing MAC addresses can be done by pretty much any device at runtime, it's part of the ethernet spec. However, you are correct that it is required to make certain telephony (radio) devices difficult to modify to work on different power levels and frequencies. For example, Part 15 of the FCC Rules (47 CFR 15) requires manufacturers to make it difficult for users to increase the effective power levels of unlicensed devices like wifi cards.

    22. Re:Proprietary Issues by aceofspades1217 · · Score: 1

      It is perfectly legal to do whatever you fucking want with an electronic device you own, at least in most countries.

      Never without qualifications. For example:

      Microwave radiation.
      Basic electrical safety.
      Eavesdropping on protected frequencies. {Cell phones][Radar]
      RFI

      There is surely the potential for civil liability:

      Your device catches fire and incinerates your cousin's $56,000 daysailer.
      You taser-shock your girl friend.
      Your faulty navigational display sends your mother-in-law off a cliff.

       

      Ahh gosh darn it, my full proof plan has been foiled!

      And the whole tasering thing just sounds kinky.

    23. Re:Proprietary Issues by adolf · · Score: 1

      Can't change MAC addresses? "Clone MAC address" is a pretty common feature in the stock firmware of a number of common consumer-grade home routers. Are there special editions available in your locality?

      What barbaric state is this? (I only want to know so that if I ever find myself driving around in those parts, I know to get gas before I get into that state, to drive only on local, non-Federally funded roads, and to avoid stopping for everything but urination. Vote with your bladder, I say.)

    24. Re:Proprietary Issues by jus1haz2 · · Score: 1

      well you might get your ass kicked but you could try it

    25. Re:Proprietary Issues by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 1

      Oh? I didn't know you could do that.

      Thanks,

      B. Streisand

    26. Re:Proprietary Issues by supernova_hq · · Score: 1

      Could the removal of a digital lock be considered added functionality? ;)

    27. Re:Proprietary Issues by Repossessed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Utah.

      Its not as barbaric as it sounds. The law is full of traps like this nobody has ever heard of, there's around 20000 federal laws, lots of them badly worded enough that things like the mac address problem are present.

      In theory shit like this gets ignored (Unless the prosecutor gets a bug up his ass and makes you the next Lori Drew), some of them do get enforced though, and its impossible to avoid breaking them all, even if you knew all 20000* of them.

      The whole 'I have nothing to hide' thing? Totally false, everyone has something to hide, usually they don't even know what it is.

      *Federal laws only, state, city and county laws also apply, these laws may reference unpublished administrative rules, laws in other states, and in extreme cases, laws in other countries.

      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    28. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't know shit, why did you bother posting a reply?

    29. Re:Proprietary Issues by Bysshe · · Score: 1

      Just a tip: using a virtual keyboard won't be very effective.

      --
      Read what I mean, not what I wrote.
    30. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's precisely why IBM Model M keyboards should probably be registered as dangerous weapons, and certainly not allowed on a plane.

    31. Re:Proprietary Issues by swillden · · Score: 1

      Where in the UCA (Utah Code Annotated) is that found? I have a copy on my machine, but couldn't find anything that would outlaw devices with a changeable MAC address. I'm not arguing that it isn't there, just asking because I'd like to read it myself.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    32. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...
      There is surely the potential for civil liability:

      Your device catches fire and incinerates your cousin's $56,000 daysailer.
      You taser-shock your girl friend ..."

      My girlfriend is a masochist you insensitive clod.

    33. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What clan are you guys in?

    34. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You taser-shock your girl friend."

      Ahhhh jiggety!

    35. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right on dude. I only use cocaine when I'm in my car. Obama Gold... Sooo gooood.

    36. Re:Proprietary Issues by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      You can do whatever you want with an electronic device you own. But if you do something illegal with said modified device, you'll get in trouble for doing the illegal thing. Not for modifying the device.

      This isn't saying much more than "only illegal stuff is illegal". It would be illegal, for example, to create a mercury tilt switch in a country were such devices are not allowed to be held by private citizens, even if you never used it.

    37. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, for instance at least in some places for sure You aren't allowed to make a weapon out of it. It will get you sound criminal charges and conviction afterwards even without putting it to any use - plain announcement of possession will do just fine.

    38. Re:Proprietary Issues by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      And the whole tasering thing just sounds kinky.

      The proper tool is not a taser -- which, after all, might kill your lover. The proper tool is a violet wand, TENS unit, or similar apparatus. Have fun.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    39. Re:Proprietary Issues by nothermark · · Score: 1

      Forget that. Your real problem is that the GPS does not differentiate between road types so it sends you through the housing development rather than around it. You will need to figure out how to add data to that database to differentiate road types and software to read the data. That is a massive task. If it was simple it would already be done as it would end most of the GPS ctiticism.

    40. Re:Proprietary Issues by rwuest · · Score: 1

      I see where the FCC rules tell the manufacturers to afix that label. But I don't see where the modification of a radio set is actually illegal. It is certainly vague with respect to an individual making modifications. I read 15.121 through a couple of times; it is a strange requirement about that label. Clearly, manufacturing a radio to receive cellular signals is illegal. And it's clear that if you modify one, you can't sell it: section 2(d). Only in section 2(b) is there a hint that having such a radio might be illegal: "Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, scanning receivers shall reject any signals..."

    41. Re:Proprietary Issues by dlgeek · · Score: 1

      I think there's lasw elsewhere in 47 CFR about requiring type certification for a device, prohibiting modifying a device outside of it's type certification, etc., that applies to all device classes not just part 15 but I can't be assed to look them up right now.

    42. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your faulty navigational display sends your mother-in-law off a cliff.

      That's not faulty, it's working precisely as intended.

      We Call That a "Security Feature"

    43. Re:Proprietary Issues by Pollardito · · Score: 1

      or maybe a repeat victim...

    44. Re:Proprietary Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah i saw a video a while back ago of a guy trying to bust an Apple, not metallic, white keyboard with his head. He broke a few keys off of it and stuff and then his eyes got cross eyed and he passed out. It was funny but they took it down from youtube.

  3. g1 by blackomegax · · Score: 5, Interesting

    what about the android platform. telenav, and soon garmin will be on it.

    1. Re:g1 by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      For hackability Windows CE 5 running iGo 8 is your best bet.

      There is a lot of information on the net about how to customise iGo 8, and there are lots of skins and voice mods available too. I posted a complete guide to the voice configuration file on my blog (http://blog.world3.net/2009/06/igo-8amiga-voice-commands-csv-format/) which allows you to customise voice prompts any way you like. I changed the default three warnings of every turn to two, for example.

      iGo Amigo is out now, but it seems to be a lot less hackable. It's basically a much simpler version of iGo 8 with a slightly clearer display. There is much less information about it at the moment, so if you want to customise I'd stick with V8.

      Unfortunately TomTom, Garmin and the rest are mostly locked down and you can't do too much with them.

      A word about traffic data - it doesn't work, at least here in the UK. The reception is so poor, even on major motorways and in big cities, that if you ever do manage to get any data it will usually be way to late and there will be no way to avoid the jam.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:g1 by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      Not sure telenav is a good source, at least in Oregon, it's missing most roundabouts and a substantial number of streets, and trap streets are a real hazard to navigation in Salem. I'll be interested to see if Garmin's software will read garmin gmapsupp.img files; if so, then I can still use a decent map with it.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
  4. Ask Microsoft by cwike · · Score: 3, Funny

    Everyone famously knows tomtom runs (GNU/)Linux, and uses FAT formatted memory cards, just ask Microsoft.

  5. in-car computer by socsoc · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sounds like you want something more than a TomTom. Peruse the forums at mp3car.com and you'll find tons of information. Build a computer in there and you can have whatever flavor of GNU/Linux you like. Add GPS and you're done. Add EVDO and you have Internets to watch pornhub while traveling down the interstate.

    1. Re:in-car computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I found the cheap Navigo to be pretty good. Costs less than £50 and runs WinCE and provides MP3 playback as well as doing GPS. Not investigated it too much yet and just running the default software, but I think you can just stick a different .exe onto the SD card and it'll run that instead of the default GPS software.

    2. Re:in-car computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Get a PDA with window mount and a built-in GPS, few on deal extreme. Get one of those, buy TomTom's PDA versoin, comes on a CD. Available at their website. install it on the device. Also since this is a PDA that looks like a GPS, you can pretty much do what you want with it.

      Here is one http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8545

    3. Re:in-car computer by EdIII · · Score: 1

      watch pornhub while traveling down the interstate.

      Did you just advise him to drive one-handed while watching porn while also driving down the interstate? You must have the strangest carpool ride ever.....

    4. Re:in-car computer by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 3, Informative

      Agreed. And If you go this route, you'll be interested in this list, since it tells you which GPS units are likely to work well the gpsd on Linux or *BSD.

    5. Re:in-car computer by cowbutt · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, the TomTom already runs Linux, and there's an established project for hacking it - OpenTom. Source code for the FOSS bits and notes on the toolchain TomTom use at www.tomtom.com.

    6. Re:in-car computer by Krneki · · Score: 1

      I saw once a truck driver cooking pasta while driving on the highway.

      You should never underestimate what a bored driver can do while driving.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
  6. Mio GPS by pkbarbiedoll · · Score: 4, Informative

    I own one of these and it is hackable. Good luck!

  7. Uh, it's called Windows Mobile by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I drove from California to NC, I wrote a custom app that read the GPS lat/long coordinates, searched a database of 5000 fast food places, gas stations, and hotels within 1 mile of I-40, so I could find where I wanted to go even if it was 70 miles up the road, and hit a great big button to search for it so I wouldn't wreck my car, and then enter the coordinates in the navsat program to start driving me there.

    Does that count as hacking it?

    I did it on my PocketPC. Does that mean Windows Mobile still sucks and is useless for hackers?

    1. Re:Uh, it's called Windows Mobile by CarpetShark · · Score: 4, Funny

      When I drove from California to NC, I wrote a custom app that read the GPS lat/long coordinates, searched a database of 5000 fast food places, gas stations, and hotels within 1 mile of I-40, so I could find where I wanted to go

      I believe that's called making your windows GPS function like a proper GPS ;)

    2. Re:Uh, it's called Windows Mobile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so I wouldn't wreck my car

      Ah, but with all that hacking, can you still prevent the device from wrecking itself? I know I can't.

      My Windows Mobile devices rarely see more than a month of uptime before I am forced to reboot because some feature silently fails without providing any hints as to why.

    3. Re:Uh, it's called Windows Mobile by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      There are plenty turn-to-turn navigation apps for windows mobile which already have POI databases.

      So yes, I second that. HTC Athena is a pretty decent device with a huge screen, internal GPS and a full keyboard. Good both for hacking and for navigation and is pretty cheap at the used devices market (got one for less than 200 euros).

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    4. Re:Uh, it's called Windows Mobile by johannesg · · Score: 1

      When I drove from California to NC, I wrote a custom app that...

      You should be careful with that. The authorities frown on people who program while driving for some reason.

      read the GPS lat/long coordinates, searched a database of 5000 fast food places, gas stations, and hotels within 1 mile of I-40, so I could find where I wanted to go even if it was 70 miles up the road, and hit a great big button to search for it so I wouldn't wreck my car, and then enter the coordinates in the navsat program to start driving me there.

      Does that count as hacking it?

      Not really, you were just using interfaces for their intended purposes here. Besides, while I am sure some people might be greatly in awe of your leet skills, this is actually a basic function of any normal GPS unit...

    5. Re:Uh, it's called Windows Mobile by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I did it on my PocketPC. Does that mean Windows Mobile still sucks and is useless for hackers?

      What? Windows mobile sucks, yet is not useless to hackers, and has not been since about WM5, where they introduced GPS sharing.

      As you sort of suggest though, I think the best platform for what he wants to do is a PocketPC device with Garmin XL. Garmin XL is only $99 on MicroSD card with the USA maps. You can get a reburb PocketPC with GPS for about $200 if you look around.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:Uh, it's called Windows Mobile by ShannaraFan · · Score: 1

      My TomTom will do this out-of-the-box, it's called "Find POI Along Route".

    7. Re:Uh, it's called Windows Mobile by mspohr · · Score: 1
      Unfortunately, I purchased a Michelin GPS device (950T) which is based on WinCE. It's truly a piece of shite from the underlying hardware (slow), to the WinCE (slow and frequent crashes) to the Michelin GPS software (absolutely terrible user interface).

      I would love to be able to hack this hardware to install Linux and some decent GPS software but haven't found anything.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  8. Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    iPhone

  9. navigon by eobanb · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have a Navigon 2100, which runs WinCE but it is quite hackable. The whole OS and related data is stored on an SD card; you can simply plug it into an SD reader, replace the files, maps, everything.

    --

    Take off every sig. For great justice.

    1. Re:navigon by Smooth+and+Shiny · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I have the 2100 Max and the 7200T. I love the Navigon units, but they are no longer manufacturing units for North America sadly.

      Newegg right now (sorry if mentioning the site is bad around these parts) has the 2100 3.5" and the 7200T. The 7200T they have for about half of the MSRP ($440).

    2. Re:navigon by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 3, Funny

      I have a Navigon 2100, which runs WinCE but it is quite hackable. The whole OS and related data is stored on an SD card; you can simply plug it into an SD reader, replace the files, maps, everything.

      Interesting... so if you can replace the maps, any idea what program would convert OpenStreetMap data to the appropriate format for the Navigon? I have one of these useless doorstops (thanks to the absolute crap map data that it ships with) and i'm trying to rehabilitate it, since Navigon's support told me to go fuck myself (in those words).

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    3. Re:navigon by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Navigon's support told me to go fuck myself (in those words).

      Now we didn't, you lying little shit. We told you if you bad mouth us on the internet we will kidnap your dog again. And this time the furball will come back in PIECES.

      Yours sincerely,

      Navigon Legal Department.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    4. Re:navigon by schweini · · Score: 1

      try Gosmore. It's extremely(!) basic, but kinda works, once you figure out the controls. I;m using it on a very shitty Navigon unit here in Costa Rica. Little bonus: you can save you GPS traces, and add POIs, and then afterwards incorporate them back into the OSM database.
      There seem to be other programs, though

    5. Re:navigon by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      I looked at that, but I can't help but wonder if there isn't a quickstart guide that makes it easy... I'm not a WinCE programmer by any means!

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
  10. Easy options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Many car GPS units use a cut down WinCE. There are plenty of these around, and they are cheap. I use a Binatone X350 to run XCSoar. MS can provide the development environment if you want it.

    I also have a TomTom. I bought it because the OpenTom stuff meant there was a development environment for it. I never went further than getting a few simple non graphical progams compiled for it, but the information is all there if you're keen on development.

  11. Obligatory XKCD Reference by BobReturns · · Score: 4, Informative

    Randall Munroe had a cool python program on his blag at one point for a simple GPS program for linux. Can be found here

  12. Get a TomTom. by B5_geek · · Score: 2, Informative

    It runs Linux, uses mplayer for media output, and is very hackable.

    http://www.webazar.org/tomtom/index.php

    Tripmaster is the #1 3rd party app that you can install. There is lots of other stuff you can do to it too.

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
    1. Re:Get a TomTom. by B5_geek · · Score: 1

      I have the 720, and it is great.

      P.S. Hey Slashdot, can we get an edit button!

      --
      "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
    2. Re:Get a TomTom. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I have the 720, and it is great.

      P.S. Hey Slashdot, can we get an edit button!

      I wish Slashdot had an "Edit" button that when clicked would say "quit being lazy and proofread."

    3. Re:Get a TomTom. by B5_geek · · Score: 1

      I did proofread. I didn't think till later to add the model information.

      --
      "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
    4. Re:Get a TomTom. by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      Perhaps an "append" button then?

  13. You're a couple of generations too late by syousef · · Score: 2, Informative

    Earlier TomToms had a developers kit. With the latest versions of the OS that offer many new features, like text to speech and use of faster aquiring GPS chips, they've removed the ability to do any kind of hacking. A real pity. I came into the game just a little too late. So I get the nice features, but not the nice hacks.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:You're a couple of generations too late by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > ...they've removed the ability to do any kind of hacking.

      No they haven't. They've just stopped providing a convenient kit.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:You're a couple of generations too late by commlinx · · Score: 4, Informative

      Without the developer API you can still access the functions that were there, you just need to roll your own code. The site http://www.opentom.org/Main_Page is a good reference for source code and documentation.

      I've got a TomTom One V3 that doesn't have Bluetooth and got console access by running a scope over the external connector to determine the functions and attached a TTL to serial converter, I've posted details of the connector pinouts for anyone interested http://blog.peter-johnson.com.au/?p=49

  14. OpenMoko by overshoot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sure -- try a FreeRunner. Sure, it's nominally a smartphone but it's got your key requirements: GPS, decent graphics, networking, audio I/O, and ssh.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    1. Re:OpenMoko by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does it do routing and use sound to tell you when to turn left or right?

    2. Re:OpenMoko by erko · · Score: 1

      The believe navit program has this type of more advanced "giving directions" feature (you can probably find more information on the navit website). I haven't tried navit much, since the other GPS apps such as tangogps have been enough for me..

  15. Arduino + GPS Shield by sgrover · · Score: 1

    I've been looking into this recently as well. Best bet I've found, in terms of "tinkering" ability is to use an Arduino and a GPS Shield (more details here). The two of these (and the GPS chip) will cost under $150, but allow you to code it to do whatever you want. Throw in a TouchShield and you begin to open up possibilities. The downside is the time/effort needed here. The "convenience" factor is not part of this solution... :)

    1. Re:Arduino + GPS Shield by arh9623 · · Score: 1

      +1, The Arduino is blowing up. It's very usable.

    2. Re:Arduino + GPS Shield by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      +1, The Arduino is blowing up. It's very usable.

      Usable for what? A grenade?

  16. Moon on a stick by garryknight · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've just written a hackable gnu/linux satnav program that runs on a USB stick. It's called 'Moon'.







    Disclaimer: No I haven't.

    --
    Garry Knight
    1. Re:Moon on a stick by pickled+doughboy · · Score: 1

      M-O-O-N that spells GPS!

    2. Re:Moon on a stick by BatGnat · · Score: 1

      Is it small enough to fit on my imaginary 1TB wireless USB4 device?

  17. not exactly "hackable", but... by v1 · · Score: 5, Informative

    the new garmin units plug in like a usb thumb drive and you have direct access to their .GPX data files. The files are in flat XML, heavily documented, and very flexible. (apparently garmin has gone away from NMEA/serial, good riddance)

    They come with two pieces of software, one that runs locally on your computer and the other is a browser plugin that I assume gives java control over the same things. I was very impressed with the software, but it does have its limits. (such as building routes) But since the files are xml you can use any off the shelf standard .GPX editing program (there are several, and I recently wrote my own too) to edit things how you need to. Some are free, most are pay. But the software for the garmin is free with it.

    You can't ssh into the thing, but as far as file/format goes, this is about as "open" as it gets. FYI I have an Edge 605, use it on my bike. It's got a really small screen unfortunately but those are the breaks for small and long battery life.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:not exactly "hackable", but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I trust you already know about developer.garmin.com then. You can download all sorts of tools from there and even source code for the Linux based devices.

      I don't think its a great idea for people to be modding the devices that many blindly trust to give them proper directions. The "whatcouldpossiblygowrong" tag is actually appropriate. I have seen devices in development do some really wonky things. Any GPS with routing abilities on the market from any company has done bizarre things in engineering, like telling you it is convinced Kansas City, MO is in the middle of the ocean 3000 miles east of Kansas City, KS.

      Also hackers should keep in mind that the memory requirements for the proprietary routing program are likely not documented. Hacking a device to run additional programs or act in a manner differently than it was designed to could negatively affect that and possibly cause the device (well, the UI) to crash.

      Posting AC since I work for Garmin.

    2. Re:not exactly "hackable", but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just an fyi, the garmins have always done this as long as they have had an external card available. This goes back to the legend series. It probably also works on those without a card as well as long as you can put the unit into mass storage mode so you can just see the flash contents.

    3. Re:not exactly "hackable", but... by Curmudgeonlyoldbloke · · Score: 1

      Garmin units also support maps created by "mkgmap":

      http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/index.html
      http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mkgmap

      This takes openstreetmap data (mentioned elsewhere - actually any data in OSM format would do) and creates a map in a style that you choose.

  18. Lots of potential by slashqwerty · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think the market has lots of room for improvement. It would be nice to have, not just a GPS system, but an in-car computer. Imagine if the computer could hook up to OBD-II, odometer, speedometer, radio, rear-view camera, a cell/wireless network, and other in-car systems. It could track fuel usage on every trip, overlay Wikipedia geographic coordinates, log milage information for tax reasons, record traffic stops (even capturing a few minutes of video prior to the stop), and countless other things.

    A good system would boot up in less than two seconds, start playing music where it left off, and instantly switch on a rear-view camera as soon as the car switches to reverse. Most existing systems have only a few of the aforementioned features, they tend to run fairly slow, and they have startup times that leave you wonting for music.

    I think a feature-complete system would require a fast processor, a large display (probably requiring custom dashboard work), and a lot of wiring.

    My own research turned up Navit which looks pretty good for the navigation piece.

    1. Re:Lots of potential by nsaspook · · Score: 3, Insightful
      --
      In GOD we trust, all others we monitor.
    2. Re:Lots of potential by alan_nsb · · Score: 1

      This would require work but could customized to your own desire. http://www.buglabs.net/products

    3. Re:Lots of potential by hands · · Score: 1

      I have one of these for my boat. Made by Raymarine, has a 13" screen, displays GPS position on charts with various overlays (radar, weather, aerial photos, etc.) displays engine diagnostics, interfaces with video, and ethernet, etc. If I had a car, I'd want one in my car too.

    4. Re:Lots of potential by tgd · · Score: 1

      Your research wasn't very good if you didn't turn up the hundred companies building car computers that do precisely that or the tens of thousands or more people who use them.

    5. Re:Lots of potential by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A good system would boot up in less than two seconds, start playing music where it left off, and instantly switch on a rear-view camera as soon as the car switches to reverse.

      This is a Garmin nuvi8xx and VIB11+Camera.

  19. Omnitech GPS sold at Staples or Nextar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    The most hackable GPS I have seen and owned is the Omnitech 4.3 inch GPS unit sold at Staples. On a good sale day you could get the GPS unit for under $80, and some have even found them as cheap as 50-60. They run Windows CE5, and all of the files are stored on the SD card so it's incredibly easy to modify. There are already SD card images on the net that include multiple GPS programs like iGo8, TomTom, Nav N Go, Destinator, etc. and also come with a lot of games, programs, utilities, Office for PocketPC, etc. The Omnitech GPS can be had on eBay for as little as 70-80 dollars new if you can't find it in stores. If you cannot find an Omnitech unit, the next best thing would be one of the lower tiered Nextar units sold in Kohl's and Best Buy. I also own the Nextar 43NT (this is the one I use on a daily basis) and my GPS unit normally runs iGo8 as the GPS naviation program, and I also play games on it when I have down time, and have even been known to watch an XviD TV episode on the highway on long trips.

    The downside to almost all GPS units though is that they don't accept SDHC cards. Theoretically 2GB is the maximum for a non-SDHC card to hold, but Transcend does market a 4GB non-SDHC card on Newegg for around $14 bucks. They all have about the same processor speeds and RAM though....the more you pay for the unit, the more you're paying for the software that comes on the device. Do yourself a favor and stick with the cheapie GPS and hack the unit to your satisfaction

    1. Re:Omnitech GPS sold at Staples or Nextar by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      Most newer ones do support SDHC cards.

      I know the DealExtreme ones do.

      While the TomTom units run Linux, all of the "useful" functions are in the highly proprietary NavCore application. Despite being Linux-based, they're not really "hackable". There are some hacks, but they still depend on cooperation with NavCore.

      The Windows CE devices tend to be quite hackable, such as the 4.3" and 5" WinCE + SiRF Atlas-III devices at dealextreme.com. I have one such unit on order and am looking forward to receiving it.

      In general, there are few open source mapping applications for portable devices, and not a single one that I know of that does turn-by-turn due to lack of turn restriction data in publically available data sets. For example, any of the "open source" street datasets in the United States are descended from the US Census Bureau TIGER dataset. This dataset does not (or at least did not, as of 2005-2006) contain any turn restriction data, e.g. one way roads and intersections that don't allow certain types of turns. The end result is that any attempt to do routing with these datasets will have odd results (namely, high chance of illegal turns and going the wrong way on a one way road.)

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  20. Why not try... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Nokia N800 and a Bluetooth GPS.
    1. It runs GNU/Linux so very hackable (comes with a Nokia-written Debian-derivative, but you can install a completely free Ubuntu derivative)
    2. GPS stuffs are in the bluetooth box so no legal issues
    3. There is no 3

    Or perhaps the N810, it has a (somewhat usable) built-in GPS (or you can use a bluetooth one again) and it comes with most of a car mount (you just have to buy the bit that fits your car). N800 might too though...

  21. A linux PDA and Navit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get a linux PDA (Nokia n800/n810 or sharp zaurus?) or maybe even a small netbook, bluetooth or USB GPS and run navit (http://navit.sourceforge.net/) on it. Navit displays moving maps (from opensstreetmap) on screen based on GPS data.

  22. Freerunner by wurp · · Score: 4, Informative

    Get a Freerunner. It's an open phone with: GPS, internet via gprs, accelerometers, full bluetooth, wifi, 640x480 touchscreen. It runs any of several flavors of Linux (including Debian or Android, but my personal choice is SHR) and there are already Free gps programs that use OpenStreetMap (TangoGPS or Navit).

    It's about $250, IIRC, but of course you can carry it around and use it to browse the web and receive calls, as well as using it in-vehicle for navigation.

    It doesn't get any hackabler.

    1. Re:Freerunner by sgrover · · Score: 2, Informative

      turning on GPS and Bluetooth (supposing you needed BT for some reason), gives you about 1 hour of battery life, in my experience. The Freerunner does "fit the bill" in a number of ways, but it's battery life, and steep learning curve (compared to a TomTom type tool) score it lower. (I've been trying to get the GPS stuff working reliably on the FR for a week or so - getting the base system stable is um, troublesome in my case at least)

    2. Re:Freerunner by ingsocsoc · · Score: 1

      >

      you can carry it around and use it to browse the web and receive calls, as well as using it in-vehicle for navigation.

      Except that it hardly works. Soldered on that 1mm capacitor yet?

    3. Re:Freerunner by wurp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I actually have a Neo 1973 - no need for the capacitor, nor is there a need for it in the newest Freerunners. I do agree that he should read up on it and hang out in #openmoko on irc.freenode.net to see what to expect. Early on, software was very buggy. Now, afaik, the only persistent problem is short battery life (about a day with normal usage).

      "it hardly works" is inaccurate. There are issues he should understand *is* accurate.

    4. Re:Freerunner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While it's in the car it doesn't need to run on battery

    5. Re:Freerunner by just+fiddling+around · · Score: 1

      I was looking at a Freerunner for my next phone this summer, but I can't seem to get the real state of that project anywhere, not even on openmoko.org.
      Is there a source somewhere for complete infos?

      I'd like to use it primarily as a phone (incredible, right?), then make an app for it that uses the GPS and accelerometers on my spare time.

      --
      You're not old until regret takes the place of your dreams.
  23. A Nokia N810 with Maemo Mapper . . . ? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 3, Informative

    . . . it fit's your GNU/Linux/Hackable requirements . . . I dunno about the "live, up-to-date traffic information and route planning " stuff. But worth taking a look at.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:A Nokia N810 with Maemo Mapper . . . ? by mabs · · Score: 1

      N810 is perfect for hacking, lots of gps fun to be had. Like getting a gpx file from your favorite geocaching site and track some caches down; maemo mapper using festival tts engine and a reliable data connection (uses google maps); and there's wayfinder for your commertial nav class app. The only reason i use tom tom is that none of these are reliable solutions in rural australia, neither is tom tom, but at least i can correct tom tom errors enroute. Maemo.org - os2008, have a look.

      --
      VK3TST
      -- "People aren't stupid. Usually." -- jd
    2. Re:A Nokia N810 with Maemo Mapper . . . ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, you got a GPS signal with a Nokia N810? Could you link to the details of the proper animal sacrifice ritual?

    3. Re:A Nokia N810 with Maemo Mapper . . . ? by quenda · · Score: 1

      Wait, you got a GPS signal with a Nokia N810? Could you link to the details of the proper animal sacrifice ritual?

      Sure,
      http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9415~r.60561251
      (external GPS unit - OK, I have an n800, but I'm sureit works with the n810 :-)

      Maemo Mapper is great, but its just a map program, not a navigator. It can download maps as images from Google maps, Virtual Earth, Yahoo, Openstreet, ...
      It's fantastic when you don't have an internet connection. And it's open-source.
      You need do download routes from elsewhere.

    4. Re:A Nokia N810 with Maemo Mapper . . . ? by JesseL · · Score: 1

      Wait, you got a GPS signal with a Nokia N810? Could you link to the details of the proper animal sacrifice ritual?

      http://betalabs.nokia.com/betas/view/gps-beta-nokia-n810

      "Assisted GPS (A-GPS) provides assistance data for GPS calculations within the device. This application enables A-GPS on your N810 Internet Tablet device and provides improved performance and GPS fix times."

      --
      "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
    5. Re:A Nokia N810 with Maemo Mapper . . . ? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      "The application requires active Internet Connection to obtain fresh assistance data."

      Not proper GPS at all. Watch you don't get assraped on data charges, especially if you're roaming.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:A Nokia N810 with Maemo Mapper . . . ? by maxume · · Score: 1

      The N810 is not a phone, the internet connection there would be wifi.

      I think there are Nokia phones that provide a similar combination of hardware and software though.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    7. Re:A Nokia N810 with Maemo Mapper . . . ? by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      It's a proper GPS. The A-GPS application in this case is not the "classic" tower-based A-GPS, but is what is often refered to as "QuickFix" or "HotFix" or "InstantFix" depending on manufacturer.

      The idea is that even with a good signal, satellite ephemerides take a minimum of 30 seconds to download from a GPS satellite. Even with good pseudorange data, without ephemerides a satellite is unusable for a navigation fix.

      Most of the current "A-GPS" approaches involve preloading approximately a weeks' worth of ephemerides into a receiver, so that a position fix can be obtained as soon as pseudorange data becomes available.

      Huge difference from the original meaning of Assisted GPS, where the handset collected pseudorange data and passed it to the tower for E911 purposes. This was needed back when handsets didn't have much CPU power. Nowadays basically any handset has enough CPU to calculate a position fix on its own.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    8. Re:A Nokia N810 with Maemo Mapper . . . ? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Yes, the E71. I have one and I accidentally left the A-GPS on. It used ten Euros of credit in about twenty minutes, hence my warning.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  24. Android by simonloach · · Score: 1

    What about something like an android phone, they come with GPS. Then you also have a pretty cool phone to go along with it. I have no idea what apps there are for mapping but I would hope there would be something good by now.

  25. Define hackable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What exactly are you trying to hack the GPS to do?

  26. blue-sky ideas ... by timothy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I really would like an R2 unit / the earthly equivalent.

    First, I have a penchant for getting lost. As in, it's happened in my own neighborhood -- GPS device, while in some ways it's a crutch, also helps me *learn* streets by taking me the (or a) correct way a few times. As the saying goes, sometimes crutches are useful.

    Second, I like to drive long distances / cross-country (for instance: I plan to go east in not many weeks from now on this route -- and back to Seattle via a slightly less direct path -- ), and would like something that can fake AI pretty well as a travel aid. ("Infotainment!")

    Right now I have a decent-enough (discontinued, middle-end) Garmin, which took me several GPS-buying attempts to settle on, and it does a lot of things well (interface is OK, and it plays MP3s). But a guy can dream ...

    I know this is not yet a reasonable demand for products in my price range, but I'd like to be able to use moderately complex spoken demands / requests / ideas, Star Trek (or Star Wars, or Hitchhiker's Guide) fashion, some of which would require either a really big data store or (at least intermittently) an internet connection:

    "Plot me a course to the nearest used bookstore, artoo."

    "How much longer if I take a route with no tolls?"

    "Does that Taco Bell have a 24 hour drive through?"

    "What happened at this battlefield? Give me the short version."

    "Play that interview from EconTalk.org about the difference between law and legislation, and then some up-tempo Bach."

    "What are reviews like on this cheap motel?"

    --
    jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
    1. Re:blue-sky ideas ... by timothy · · Score: 1

      Flubbed above; corrected below:

      Second, I like to drive long distances / cross-country (for instance: I plan to go east in not many weeks from now on this route and back to Seattle via a slightly less direct path ), and would like something that can fake AI pretty well as a travel aid. ("Infotainment!")"

      timothy

      --
      jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
    2. Re:blue-sky ideas ... by adolf · · Score: 1

      Timothy, oh most respect-worthy of Slashdot editors:

      Here's a shot in the dark: Didn't you just describe GM's Onstar service?

      And, if not -- didn't you just describe a good secretary?

      Perhaps the thing you want isn't so far-fetched afterall.

  27. What about an Android phone? by jafo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It has a GPS and compass, wireless, maps and searching... And the full source code to the OS is available with a fairly good development environment, if you can cope with Java or wait for one of the other available scripting systems they're talking about. You want hackable? Do a "git" of the phone software source, and you can do a "make" to produce new firmware. With the exception of a few Google-only applications, like the gmail app, you've got everything you need. There are community members that are doing their own builds, I've had good luck with the jesusfreeke builds. I've written several applications with a friend of mine -- nothing GPS-based yet, but an IP address calculator and an app that turns the Android into a webcam, and will automatically take pictures and upload them to an HTTP or FTP server. See http://slackey.com/ for more information. The benefit is that if you can use it for your phone, it's not another device you have to keep with you and keep charged. The down-side is that it only works with GSM phone providers. The biggest thing for me has been that it's something I'd have to be carrying anything, for when I'm on-call. So, it's literally not another thing that I have to keep charged and with me. That's been the biggest issue I've had with the Palms and other GPS devices I've had, and the Nokia 770/N810. It's a GPS that is SO much more useful than the typical GPS. Of course, all IMHO. Sean

    1. Re:What about an Android phone? by cellurl · · Score: 1

      The poster will never see this, but you are exactly right. Old-school GPS's will be replaced by Android-app's any day now... Wikispeedia

    2. Re:What about an Android phone? by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1
      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    3. Re:What about an Android phone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been using my G1 for 9+ months and it has stopped me from buying a GPS unit, the hardware utilization is improved with every update and the uses are increased daily by the every growing app market.

  28. Pioneer AVIC by gregmac · · Score: 3, Informative

    I just got a Pioneer AVIC-F700BT (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/Navigation/In-Dash/AVIC-F700BT). It doesn't quite do everything you asked, but there are other models that add traffic updates, etc.

    It runs Windows CE (bear with me here..), and has ways to boot into it. There are people that have hacked the firmware, and added various features to it - check out avic411.com. I haven't tried this myself, but it doesn't look overly difficult. I get the impression that community is not really full of "programmers" per-se, more just enthusiasts, so it's likely that someone who actually knows how to program would get quite far. (Note, I am a programmer, I just haven't had time to mess with my car stereo which works satisfactorily).

    Pros: relatively cheap (note: the MSRP is $900-something, but it can be found for $500), has pretty decent maps, decent directions, plays MP3s from USB/CD/SD (and DVD, in some models), ipod interface, has XM/Sirius capability via add-ons, bluetooth with voice recognition (which works extremely well)

    Cons: slow-ish bootup time (~7 seconds to playing music, another 7-10 before UI is fully available), music-related voice control features only work with ipod (eg, "play songs by ____" doesn't work on cd.. but you can say "next track" or "change source to FM" - which frankly, is kinda useless), playback from SD/USB won't resume right where it left off, it always starts the song over, fast-forward/rewind is frustratingly slow (both of these are probably fixable via firmware, or even hacking.. unfortunately, they contribute to mean I can't really listen to podcasts, which is one thing I was hoping for with the ability to use SD cards). Ships with a stupid "feature" where you can't change Nav destination/settings while driving (luckily, this is easily bypass-able by connecting an extra wire while installing).

    I'm quite happy with it, honestly, and I'd definitely recommend the unit. Like I said, I haven't really gotten in to hack it yet (I likely will), but then again, I haven't really needed to.

    --
    Speak before you think
    1. Re:Pioneer AVIC by givon · · Score: 1

      I purchased an AVIC-F700BT recently and have to agree with the parent.

      I also have not "modded" it, but you can load different GPS software through hacks (it'll run TomTom and others if you don't mind "borrowing" the needed binaries).

      The interface offers modest customization for the casual hacker. You can change images, sounds, and add/remove/rearrange buttons all by modifying a text file found on the OS if you boot into Windows CE.

      My only complaint is the somewhat slow boot time. It starts playing the last song/station you had on within 20 seconds, but you can only control volume for about a minute until it boots all the way.

      It integrates well enough with the ipod touch. You have complete access to your music library directly from the unit.

      The touch screen doesn't work as well as the ipod touch, but what touch screen does.
      Definitely check out avic411.com and don't but at a retail store, you can save $300-$400 online even from big retailers like amazon.

  29. I think you've got to make a decision. by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How much is your time worth?

    Yes, you can screw around hacking GPS units. The question is, why do that instead of buying an ultramobile PC with GPS and navigation software?

    Do you save money? No. Not if your time is worth anything. Also, if you're going to depend on this, say to equip your business or something, you have no guarantee you can do the same hacks when you replace the devices.

    Do you learn anything? Well, sure, especially if you're the one who puts the time in to figure out how to do the hack. But less than you'd learn if you spent the same time just building software on a platform where the manufacturers are scheming to make your life miserable.

    Are you striking a blow for freedom? Nope. You're sending your money to a manufacturer who's trying to restrict people's freedom. They don't really care if you manage to hack the thing, only that the process makes it worthless to most users. So maybe you should support folks who are marketing and supporting platforms, and save yourself a bundle of time too.

    Of course, if the dedicated GPS units are better for their purpose than putting navigation software on an open PC, you can buy both; a GPS unit for navigation, and a UMPC with GPS for hacking. If your time is worth anything, you're still ahead.

    I speak from experience, as an inveterate opener of cases and tweaker of things that are not supposed to be tweaked. It's only worth buying something to hack if the act of getting this thing to do something the manufacturer doesn't want it do has some kind of twisted appeal to you. One possible exception is if there is something unique about the hardware, which is certainly not the case for most GPS units. In fact they probably lack things you'll want, like certain interfaces. If there were a device that was amazingly cheap and known to be super hacker friendly, I might be tempted, but probably wouldn't bother. Where the manufacturer is trying tie your hands, why give them money for the privilege of spending your time escaping?

    If you've bought one without the intention to hack it, and then you get the itch, sure go for it. That's a different story. But I think you'd be nuts to buy one for hacking if that's a high priority for you.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:I think you've got to make a decision. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A good GPS unit will have accelerometers to be able to tell where you are when GPS cuts out. This is especially important in places like New York City because of all the bridges and tall buildings that block the GPS signal.

      dom

    2. Re:I think you've got to make a decision. by sgrover · · Score: 1

      You seem to have made an assumption that the commercial GPS units are suitable in EVERY possible need. The edge cases are not covered in most cases and still need a way to start from an existing solution that does most of what may be needed. An example. GPS Datalogging is well known/solved. But throw some custom analysis on there. Perhaps you want the unit to automagically know which trips are business trips and which are personal, and then provide a nice convenient report showing the total business usage of the vehicle. I've yet to see a commercial device do this. And that's just ONE sample. Of course, if you are simply trying to recreate a basic GPS data logger, then yeah it's probably better to spend $100 bucks or so to buy one.

    3. Re:I think you've got to make a decision. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you striking a blow for freedom? Nope. You're sending your money to a manufacturer who's trying to restrict people's freedom. They don't really care if you manage to hack the thing, only that the process makes it worthless to most users. So maybe you should support folks who are marketing and supporting platforms, and save yourself a bundle of time too.

      If only Nintendo thought the same way. *rolleyes*

  30. Pioneer AVICs... by FourG · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's a healthy hacking community for Pioneer AVIC in-dash units (http://www.avic411.com/). The current generation (F-series) is basically a Mio Windows CE 5.0 Navi that runs iGo 8.0 and interfaces to an AV board for sound out. It uses a Parrot Bluetooth for the handsfree but it's not a full BT stack so no A2DP. The interface Pioneer had an external software house design has been rather bemoaned for some frustrating "quirks", so there's a lot of motivation to hack the units at the moment. There is a way to launch external apps from the iGo script interface now and there's even an effort to write a new interface from scratch that launches from the SD slot (sort of like MioPocket for some of the PNAs). There may also be a way to use SDIO 802.11b/g wireless cards with the units that was borrowed from gpspassion.com.

    Pioneer will be releasing a new series of in-dash units soon (X series) and a 3.0 firmware release for the F-series that apparently removes the ability to use the backdoor method many of us use to hack the unit, so if you do decide to get one make sure it's only got the 2.0 firmware on it.

    --
    -- "I have a great faith in fools. Self-confidence, some call it..."
  31. An easier solution by nickj6282 · · Score: 1

    What about a netbook with a built-in mobile broadband card? These can be had for $400 or less (probably much less if you can get the mobile provider to subsidize the device). Add a decent GPS software package that includes a USB receiver and you've got a ~$500 GPS that can do it all with no hacking required.

    Hell, a high-end GPS unit with half the screen size will set you back the same. But with this setup, you can take it out of the car when you get to where you are going and have a handy little netbook.

  32. Some good work from a friend by bnoel · · Score: 1

    http://mboffin.com/earthbridge/ this is something you may want to check out... B

  33. Magellan RoadMate 800 by Bordgious · · Score: 0

    I have a Magellan RoadMate 800 which runs a stripped-down version of Windows CE. With just a button-press combination you can view a full windows desktop environment with touchscreen behind it and run whatever programme you want. It's super easy as it has an SD slot and 20-40GB of internal memory to do just about whatever you want with it.

  34. I think you've lost the point by symbolset · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, you can screw around hacking GPS units. The question is, why do that instead of buying an ultramobile PC with GPS and navigation software?

    Talk about missing the point...

    You know, I think your attitude is the problem with consumer electronics today. They give you GPS with maps and you think "hey! That's cool! Now I can get navigation!" Some time later they come out with turn by turn spoken directions, and you're thrilled with that too. And then you come here on slashdot and argue against the open products, because they might be hard for you to use, or people might put them to uses the manufacturer had not intended.

    Look: people are clever. Give them neat gear with open interfaces and they'll put it to creative uses the manufacturers had never considered - and publish the source code for anyone to use. If the features are interesting, useful and most importantly, popular, they'll wind up in the next generation of the manufacturer's products and you will benefit. It's like having a half billion geeks working for free.

    Fortunately for you and for the rest of us, most manufacturers have figured out that they don't have the corner on creativity and so they make open, or "hackable" interfaces that allow us to bend these devices to unintended uses that they can then adopt in your next generation product.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:I think you've lost the point by hey! · · Score: 1

      No, I'm arguing for open products over struggling to make closed products act like they're open. I'm for spending my money with vendors who treat me right.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  35. Check out the Advent ADV3500PC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out the Advent ADV3500PC GPS, it's a VIA 1GHz based unit, and is loaded. It's one sale right now @ Buy.com for $270. I have one sitting on my desk and it's one of the most fun toys I have owned in a while. Check out the thread below for more info: http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13829 Its main function is GPS, but it can do so much more. I also use it in a home automation environment, and considering getting a second one as a CarPC.

  36. Just talking about this today! by NukeDoggie · · Score: 1

    I was just talking about this with my wife today. We just got a Garmin, and it's nice and everything as a GPS and Bluetooth phone integration and has other useless stuff (Games and msn? UGGH) but it's not integrated into the car like it should be. What is wrong with the car manufacturers, why hasn't Apple done an iCar? If I turn up my music I can't hear the directions.
    And having my car computer on the cellular network for web updates of traffic etc. Also having engine computer diagnostics on my screen would help. Also, having mileage and Trip statistics and memorys of places and cell phone hands free and ability to hook my USB drives up for mp3 jukebox... Don't forget voice recognition. And it could phone the ambulance if I crash. All in one built in unit.
    But I guess it's too much to think someone would build it into a car where it belongs and it would *JUST WORK*...
    So I will have to do like the poster is talking about and hack up my own system... And Linux is a great start.

  37. Mac Mini by miggyb · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've heard a lot of people have had success with putting a Mac Mini in vehicles. There's even a site dedicated to it: http://www.macvroom.com/ Downside is that while the software hacking would be relatively easy (there's already GPS software for OS X), the hardware would be the hard part. You'd have to find a place for it in the car, as well as a touchscreen, and possibly a keyboard.

    --
    This signature serves no purpose other than to help you see which posts were made by me.
  38. Don't ask Slashdot, ask OpenStreetMap by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 2, Informative

    Seriously, the OpenStreetMap folks have this one figured out already. See their GPS reviews wiki entry on their site for your guide to what GPSs are hackable.

    --
    Furries make the internet go.
  39. Why not the HTC G1? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It runs Linux, Android has an SDK, it has Google maps and GPS apps for it, is open and low cost...

  40. Omnitech GPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look for an Omnitech unit, they were sold at Staples for $70 and very hackable. You can put basically any vendors GPS app on it and it runs WinCE . You can play games, run apps including media players.

    Good forum for details is... http://www.techsmarttips.com

    Hope that helps.

  41. OpenStreetMap by ingsocsoc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The first thing we need is free map data. All current maps have very tight legal terms, which makes this kind of thing impossible. Check out http://www.openstreetmap.org/, there might already be decent maps where you live. For navigation you can use TangoGPS but there are other programs available too.

    1. Re:OpenStreetMap by RJFerret · · Score: 1

      The US Government Tiger road maps are free (and the basis for much of NavTeq's data I believe in the US).

      Quo Vadis for the original Palms used those maps for navigation when you plugged a GPSr into your Palm.

      That was my first in car nav system back in 2002! And it was nice having the separate screens, the GPSr showing speed, average speed, odometer with the map on the Palm separate.

      Although hardly the most bleeding edge tech, obviously there's tons of development for Palms. (Absurdly inexpensive too, just $5 or so for a Palm and tens of dollars for a basic GPSr.)

    2. Re:OpenStreetMap by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      The US Government Tiger road maps are free (and the basis for much of NavTeq's data I believe in the US).

      It's also the basis for the US data in OpenStreetMap and TeleAtlas as well; though OSM has done a LOT more with that data than the commercial sources have. For example, Navteq and TeleAtlas generally have limited, sponsored POIs, and no cycleway data, but OSM gets the cycleways, and has pretty much every POI that at least one person finds useful.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    3. Re:OpenStreetMap by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      How is that doing more with the data?

      POIs are not in the TIGER dataset.

      Also, OSM has done NOTHING with that dataset. They did a straight import that appears to have tried to cleanup/simplify maps and in the process broke them.

      For example:
      Lake Street in Owego, NY, USA is a one-way street. TeleAtlas and NavTeq know this, OSM does not (as the source data set does not contain turn restrictions data)
      The OSM importer seems to have taken NY State Route 17 and turned it into single lane of a divided highway. NY State Route 434 (which parallels 17) is shown as the "paired" lane to 17. This is WRONG. NYS 17 has two one-way subroads (divided highway), and 434 is a standard two-way road. OSM shows these three strips of pavement as two with completely bogus directionality info. The autoimporter clearly guessed at what the direction restrictions here should have been, and guessed blatantly wrong.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    4. Re:OpenStreetMap by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      How is that doing more with the data?

      POIs are not in the TIGER dataset.

      No, but there's a hell of a lot more data in OSM than TeleAtlas or Navteq have.

      Also, OSM has done NOTHING with that dataset. They did a straight import that appears to have tried to cleanup/simplify maps and in the process broke them.

      For example: Lake Street in Owego, NY, USA is a one-way street. TeleAtlas and NavTeq know this, OSM does not (as the source data set does not contain turn restrictions data)

      OSM didn't break the map, the feds (Census) really do have that down as a two-way street, but nobody in your area (you) has fixed it in OSM yet. So if it's wrong, it's your fault for not fixing it.

      The OSM importer seems to have taken NY State Route 17 and turned it into single lane of a divided highway. NY State Route 434 (which parallels 17) is shown as the "paired" lane to 17. This is WRONG. NYS 17 has two one-way subroads (divided highway), and 434 is a standard two-way road. OSM shows these three strips of pavement as two with completely bogus directionality info. The autoimporter clearly guessed at what the direction restrictions here should have been, and guessed blatantly wrong.

      Or it's just wrong in the TIGER data itself. TIGER was crap in 2000, I'm actually rather annoyed that it was used at all since in places like you describe, it's worse than nothing. Hopefully, all of the unreviewed TIGER data gets peeled off the map and replaced with the 2010 TIGER data next year. But there's nothing stopping you from reviewing your area now and getting it fixed up; I've done quite a bit of that along the Amtrak Cascades corridor.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    5. Re:OpenStreetMap by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      "OSM didn't break the map, the feds (Census) really do have that down as a two-way street, but nobody in your area (you) has fixed it in OSM yet. So if it's wrong, it's your fault for not fixing it."

      You seem to have failed to understand what I said. The Census data *does not have turn restriction data of any sort*. (this includes one-way street markings). The Feds didn't say anything about whether it was one-way or two-way. Before the OSM import of TIGER data even happened, NavTeq and TeleAtlas added this information themselves. So in terms of who has done "more" with the Census TIGER data, NavTeq and TeleAtlas clearly have.

      In terms of the directionality info of 17 and 434, that wasn't wrong in the TIGER data either. IT WASN'T THERE. IT ISN'T THERE FOR ANY ROAD. The OSM importer apparently tries to guess directionality for some roads, and in this case, it *guessed wrong* and made the data *worse*.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    6. Re:OpenStreetMap by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      So did you do something about it or did you further compound the problem by ignoring it and complaining on Slashdot instead?

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    7. Re:OpenStreetMap by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      I attempted to try doing some edits, but it's so broken as to be next to impossible to fix.

      It seems that once a street has a directionality applied to it, you can't remove it.

      Also, so far it seems next to impossible to take two roads that are connected and say, "these roads are NOT actually connected" and split them.

      Let's not forget the fact that frequently the editor decides that for whatever reason, it can't undo something and you have to scrap your entire editing session...

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    8. Re:OpenStreetMap by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      I attempted to try doing some edits, but it's so broken as to be next to impossible to fix. It seems that once a street has a directionality applied to it, you can't remove it.

      All ways have directionality, whether or not they're "one way." You need to add the oneway=yes tag to indicate that the way only travels the direction it points (or oneway=-1 if it travels the opposite direction and it's not practical to reverse the way). You might want to paruse the wiki, especially the beginner's guide.

      Also, so far it seems next to impossible to take two roads that are connected and say, "these roads are NOT actually connected" and split them.

      Try using your editor's "split way" command.

      Let's not forget the fact that frequently the editor decides that for whatever reason, it can't undo something and you have to scrap your entire editing session...

      Try using an editor that isn't the flash based Potlatch on the edit tab, like JOSM.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
  42. how about IPhone by Trieuvan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Iphone has gps and you can do crazy stuff there ...

  43. Nokia N800, N810 by delafield · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Nokia N800 and N810 both run a version of Debian and can do GPS. The N800 (what I have) does not have the GPS antenna built in, but you can purchase an antenna from Nokia and connect via bluetooth. The N810 has GPS antenna built in. You can run the free maemo mapper (openstreetmap.org) or purchase a commercial product from Nokia (NavTech). And the Nokia N800 and N810 are great for lot of other things too. I teather the N810 using bluetooth and AT&T. With that you can create a port forwarding ssh tunnel and have any GPS daemon listening in on your coordinates from anywhere. A personal tracking app. See maemo.org. Regards, Delafield

  44. It is the maps by grotgrot · · Score: 1

    All the stories about watery doom are almost nothing to do with the GPS and entirely due to the maps. The GPS can only give as good instructions as the underlying map data. Map data on highways is usually fine as they don't change much, many people use them and the information is easy to incorporate. Smaller roads change more often, there are lots more of them, and the company making the maps is less likely to keep completely up to date with them. Nowhere do I see how you intend to deal with maps.

    1. Re:It is the maps by 80N · · Score: 1

      That's what OpenStreetMap is all about: http://openstreetmap.org/ Crowdsourced mapping combined with an open license produces free, high quality mapping that can be very detailed and very up-to-date.

    2. Re:It is the maps by grotgrot · · Score: 1

      Yes it can be good, just as the commercial maps can be. But all it takes is one area you happen to be driving through with less than correct mapping information for you to be guided in an unsuitable way. Those are what all the newspaper stories are derived from.

    3. Re:It is the maps by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, it's a little easier to accept errors when you can fix the error yourself, and get the changes on your GPS in a few hours, rather than writing to the cartography company about the error, waiting for them to verify the problem, and having to pay out $80+ every three months for the updates so that maybe you see the changes you told them about three months ago.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    4. Re:It is the maps by grotgrot · · Score: 1

      TomTom already let you fix some errors. And of course the way you find out about errors is at the worst time and if routing in the worst way possible, such as if the unit tries to send you the wrong way up a round, a turn that doesn't exist, a road that is different etc.

      I certainly believe that crowdsourced maps will be better just as Wikipedia is better than the paper encyclopedias. However it is going to take a while.

    5. Re:It is the maps by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      TomTom already let you fix some errors. And of course the way you find out about errors is at the worst time and if routing in the worst way possible, such as if the unit tries to send you the wrong way up a round, a turn that doesn't exist, a road that is different etc.

      TomTom does not let you pick your own map, so any errors you do report to them simply become part of TeleAtlas's proprietary data. I don't know about you, but if I'm going to work for free on something, I want to get the result of my labor on my terms.

      I certainly believe that crowdsourced maps will be better just as Wikipedia is better than the paper encyclopedias. However it is going to take a while.

      I think we're already there with OSM in the US, any additional work is just icing on the cake at this point.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    6. Re:It is the maps by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      OSM appears to have botched the TIGER import so badly (merging lanes of a divided highway into one, incorrectly marking an adjacent road as being a lane in that divided highway) that fixing the OSM data would be incredibly difficult.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    7. Re:It is the maps by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure OSM botched the TIGER import so much as the TIGER data was botched to begin with.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
  45. Dashdaq by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out dashdq. It's an arm9 processor running linux and the source is available. Mine is still on the way so I can't say how hackable it is yet but it might be a good starting point.

    http://www.dashdaq.com/

  46. Get an iPhone 3G by The+Cisco+Kid · · Score: 1

    Or the new 3GS one. It has a GPS receiver, and there are a variety of applications which can utilize that to offer mapping and directions. Plus the backend is OSX - once you jailbreak it, you can ssh in and do all sorts of hacking.

  47. Why NOT ask for the moon on a stick? by lotho+brandybuck · · Score: 1

    If you did have the moon on a stick, and a sextant, and an almanac, and knew how to use them, you'd never be lost. Not so sure about the traffic updates...

  48. Car charger is probably $5. Fixed that. by billstewart · · Score: 1

    Hey, almost any car GPS is going to be plugged in; I assume that if the Freerunner is an open phone, it probably uses some fairly standard power plug.

    Of course, if you meant that the battery life using a car battery is about 1 hour, that's a more serious problem... :-)

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  49. Re:Car charger is probably $5. Fixed that. by sgrover · · Score: 1

    killing the car battery in an hour would be a serious problem. Luckily that's not the case. But the FreeRunner is charged via a mini-usb port. Still you are right, a suitable charger cable can be found.

  50. Nokia N810 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try looking at the Nokia N810. Open source OS, has GPS run whatever you want...

  51. GPSmid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GPSmid is a (not so nice yet) open source J2ME app for navigation. It wants to do all the dedicated boys do and seems to be making good progress. Disadvantages: hard or impossible to load big maps; openstreetmap is not perfect (yet); lots of features but also unfinished functionality.

    If you show the app it is hard for people to belie it is J2ME and runs only in the phone.

    gpsmid home page

  52. OpenMoko by MoHaG · · Score: 1

    The OpenMoko freerunner has a GPS... Just no decent navigational software that I know of...

    The dash.net GPS is based on the Neo1973, but it is only partially open-source....

  53. TomTom by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    TomToms are linux based - download their source and change. GPL, it is what you're asking for...

    1. Re:TomTom by flux · · Score: 1

      Well, it seems to me N810 has the development side much more official and open: for one, it isn't called hacking ;-). Also I doubt the mapping software itself on the TomTom unit is GPL.

      But on the other hand, the built-in GPS of N810 is not very sensitive. You also need to pay extra for the navigation features (obviously no source available for that component). The navigation software doesn't seem as nice as the older TomTom software I've tried on a S80 phone. I haven't tried Navit (just read about it on this thread) so no idea if it's any good.

  54. VW RNS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess you'd need a volkswagen for this, but I really like the Volkswagen RNS 510. It has a hard drive, can store mp3's, play dvds or TV, and the map files can be hacked to include your own POIs. Now if someone would port linux to it ...

  55. Waze GPS by eyal0 · · Score: 1

    This isn't hackable but it's awesome:

    http://www.waze.com/faq/

    Works in Israel so far and they say that it will roll out to the USA soon. Doesn't require special hardware and the software is free (as in beer).

  56. Not true! by crhylove · · Score: 1

    After the first few people, even my cheap USB keyboard has enough sharp edges to cause some damage!

    --
    I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
    1. Re:Not true! by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Most electronics can be gnawed down to form a shiv, given a week or so of gnawing. Good to know when the apocalypse hits.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  57. Hey Hans! by crhylove · · Score: 2, Funny

    I didn't know Hans Reiser could still post on /.!!!

    --
    I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
  58. Nokia N810/N800, of course. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nokia makes PDA-like Linux computers - the N810 has a built-in GPS. I have an N800 and tether a GPS to it via Bluetooth. I haven't paid a dime for software. It runs 1,000s of linux tools in addition to Maemo-Mapper which is a navigation application.

    It isn't limited to 1 process at a time like the iWhatevers. I routinely run 4+ applications including GPS and audio playback at the same time.

    This is a general device that adds GPS, not a GPS device that adds general computing, so your expectations need to be set with that in mind. Source code for 80% of the OS and applications is available. There are proprietary portions as you get closer to the hardware, I've been told.

  59. GpsDrive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    try GpsDrive + OpenStreetMaps on an automotive MiniITX kit. It'll fit into a stereo bay and draw about 20 watts, and is hackable to your heart's content.

  60. Why the fuck MUST it be hackable? by PensivePeter · · Score: 1

    Why not also your dishwasher? or the whole fucking car for that matter? Is there something special about something that contains technology and electronics that means hat it must be hackable and at the mercy and preserve of idiots like you? I suppose you'll decline all responsibility and run for cover when your amateur hacking causes a car crash? and would be the first to start bleating when someone else hacked your set, no? Get a life and apply your talents (if you really have any) to something useful, for pity's sake

    1. Re:Why the fuck MUST it be hackable? by flux · · Score: 1

      It appears you don't have a clear idea of what is being discussed here. How is a PDA-class device with navigation going to cause a car crash? And what would be lost if someone indeed managed to change software on my device without permission, I can always just reflash the firmware and I'm set again?

      Having hackable devices means that when you find something that doesn't work or doesn't work the way you like, instead of bitching and whining to the vendor, you are actually in the position to do something about it. Possibly even share the solution with someone else. Which also means that the solution might already be out there.. You might actually learn something while fixing the software, too.

      If everything just worked Just The Way I Wanted(TM), there would be no need - or atleast much less need - for hacking. Unfortunately, until the world is perfect, that's not going to happen. I prefer hackable devices over non-hackable just for the capability, even if I never did do any alterations to it, though - why take the chance?

    2. Re:Why the fuck MUST it be hackable? by DanJ_UK · · Score: 1

      How is a PDA-class device with navigation going to cause a car crash?

      Oh how you'd be surprised.

      --
      - Dan
    3. Re:Why the fuck MUST it be hackable? by PensivePeter · · Score: 1

      Well, nothing in the world is perfect, no - and I'm happy to work my life around that essential fact rather than bitching or whining to anyone! ;-) Furthermore, it never will be perfectso - just get over it! I just find it odd and arrogant that IT geeks are the only "class" of person who believe they have some god-given mission to fiddle around. If I don't like my toster, I don't screw around inside until it makes waffles - I go and buy a waffle iron. Some people just have too much time on their hands, it seems! In reality the only people who are truly in a position to "do something about it" as you claim, are a self selected class of specialists which - when they have their way - only make the experience more unpredictable and, yes I would say less safe, for ordinary users. And no, an "ordinary user" isn't someone who talks in bash, shell scripts and sysadmin commands. I appreciate your main point - which is indeed a driving force behind the open source movement - but I do not buy the argument that just because there is a vocal "hobbyist community", everthing should be opened up to satisfy their whims. I'm sure they could find a way to make the D.C. metro signalling system safer and more efficient, but it doesn't mean that the authorities abandon their responsibility and throw open the gates to anyone. Or maybe it should?

    4. Re:Why the fuck MUST it be hackable? by flux · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between hacking a device you own and you use, and a system that's used by others.

      It's not just IT people. People all times have fiddled with devices they've had, and I believe this is in part how many inventions have been made. It just is that some people do it with computing devices and other people do it with, say, cars. Software-based devices are much more malleable than devices built out of screws and bolts; just changing a few lines can go a long way making the device do what you like, instead of doing what the device builder thought would be good.

      It is quite difficult to turn a toaster into a waffle iron. But how about making your mobile phone location-awarely be silent automatically while you are in the movie theater? How about interfacing your car GPS with your mobile phone's GPS to mark the spot where your car is at the moment? It can actually be fun to do those things, which is actually the biggest reason why people do it! Don't you have any spare time? All work and no play?

      Regarding the "unpredictability" - well, if they're doing it for themselves, it's just them that need to worry about it. It's not like that all commercial devices behave fully predictably. Why would "an ordinary user" make use of my device? It is each person's personal choice to make use of a customized - or self-built - device.

      I too can see that there are interests to not make systems hackable. But where is the downside? History has shown that it has been an excellent way to make a device or platform more popular by giving people the possibility to play around with it. Perhaps an open source project about D.C. metro signalling would indeed allow people to find issues in the system and fix them? Of course, it's not likely to attract a lot of eyes, because many have a metro system they can run at home - not that fun.

    5. Re:Why the fuck MUST it be hackable? by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 2

      Why not also your dishwasher? or the whole fucking car for that matter? Is there something special about something that contains technology and electronics that means hat it must be hackable and at the mercy and preserve of idiots like you? I suppose you'll decline all responsibility and run for cover when your amateur hacking causes a car crash? and would be the first to start bleating when someone else hacked your set, no? Get a life and apply your talents (if you really have any) to something useful, for pity's sake

      The GPS doesn't drive the car, the driver does. Unless you're guilty of driving while Californian, using a GPS isn't going to cause an accident. The state of satnav today is crap, and if someone is motivated to fix the problem, why shit on him for it? Perhaps the original author comes up with a marketable product for people who aren't interested in building their own GPS to solve a problem commercial solutions consider an edge case now. Consider taking your own advice: Bitching on Slashdot about someone else's creativity is not a solution to the lack of your own creativity.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    6. Re:Why the fuck MUST it be hackable? by tgd · · Score: 1

      Why not also your dishwasher? or the whole fucking car for that matter?

      That's why I built my own car, from scratch.

      And you should see my dishwasher. That wasn't from scratch, but boy it'll clean dishes.

    7. Re:Why the fuck MUST it be hackable? by PensivePeter · · Score: 1

      All very fair points. My main issue is that proprietary solution providers shouldn't be taken to task by people who want to muck around. Innovation is to be encouraged, of course, but it shouldn't be about cracking open every perfectly functioning closed system. To be fair, the top poster did state that *he* wanted a GPS to be hackable and was not insisting that all GPS's should be. That'll teach me for blowing off on a lazy Sunday afternoon...

    8. Re:Why the fuck MUST it be hackable? by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      All very fair points. My main issue is that proprietary solution providers shouldn't be taken to task by people who want to muck around. Innovation is to be encouraged, of course, but it shouldn't be about cracking open every perfectly functioning closed system. To be fair, the top poster did state that *he* wanted a GPS to be hackable and was not insisting that all GPS's should be. That'll teach me for blowing off on a lazy Sunday afternoon...

      Why shouldn't they be taken to task, when the only reason it's a closed system to begin with is vendor lock-in purposes? This isn't just about having a nice toy to play with, it's also about not locking the casual user into one single, overpriced and inaccurate, source of map data.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    9. Re:Why the fuck MUST it be hackable? by PensivePeter · · Score: 1

      Why shouldn't they be taken to task, when the only reason it's a closed system to begin with is vendor lock-in purposes?

      I don't buy that argument.

      You should make a distinction between vendor lock-in by design - where I would share your sentiment - and de facto proprietary solutions coming from suppliers that simply did not factor into their designs the desire or need to conform with open standards.

      Apple's core technologies, for example, have always been locked down by design, whereas your average Joe's Acme tool may be as it is simply because Acme took to market a tool with a specific, limited, function set without thinking that there may be an army of people out there eager to add other functionalities.

      And, yes, I do believe that there are massive amounts of technology out there that fit that latter category. Not everyone, alas, has interoperability through open standards, as a core design principle.

  61. Re:Nothing to hide by maxume · · Score: 1

    It depends on how you look at it. If, when I say I have nothing to hide, I mean that I do not believe any of my actions to be immoral or unethical, I could be making perfect sense, depending on my attitude towards avoiding societal consequences (someone might even feel it is important to bring attention to such laws; I don't think I would risk much prison time to do such).

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  62. freerunner? by Herve5 · · Score: 1

    I've very happily used an Openmoko Freerunner last december during about one month, which comes with what I believe i the only open-source GPS hardware (in addition to being linux-based).

    I went into Openstreetmap which of course can be both downloaded for offline use and upgraded since you can record paths, and definitely was a happy camper, until a crease appeared in the ubernice touchscreen, soon resulting in 50% of the touch capacity being down (ie the phone is unusable).

    I intended to prepare some startupscripts to turn it into just a nice GPS... and never had time to do it :-(

    I'd say it's a very nifty GPS, OSM-based, being undertood that it won't feature the tomtom-like autoupgrade of GPS constellation ephemerids which accelerate the first acquisition (in other words: it'll converge more slowly than the average dedicated car-GPS)

    In case you're interested I could offer you my broken package for basically the cost of packaging/sending (say 50E?), but be really aware that the touch function of the screen is dead, you must program it ith a keyboard or via SSH...

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    Herve S.
  63. Magellan & MioPocket Lite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suggest a Magellan 4250, and MioPocket 3.0(http://rapidshare.com/files/247598756/MioPocket_3.0_Release_49.zip) or Lite (http://www.freewebs.com/miopocket-lite/). Free unlocking software for WinCE devices. I've had it on my GPS for a while I love it. It can play Divx,Xvid, you can put screen into landscape mode and read PPT/DOC & PDF files, mp3 player, you can also load third-party gps software, it comes with Beeline GPS and several others, and it allows you to retain the original firmware.

  64. Hum. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uhhh how did this post make it on slashdot?

  65. Time and date by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, and one thing to look for in a GPS is one with a PPS output. This adds a lot of fun to any project as while it is idle, it can function as a stratum 2 clock for your network.

  66. Uh, it's called Android by mrjohnson · · Score: 1

    And they already wrote it, it's called Places.

  67. PNA mods by Falconhell · · Score: 1

    I have an IPAQ 312, which has a US equivalent,
    the 310. This is easily hackable but is still windows CE. You finish up with a Win95 type desktop look.

    I have got it to run TomTom6 and the open source glider navigation program XCSoar,
    which is very good indeed.

    As another poster mentioned TomTom units run linux.

    There is a lot of good info on the gpspassion forum regarding hacking lots of differnet nav/gps devices.

  68. Bug Labs by JuzzFunky · · Score: 1

    How about Bug Labs. It doesn't get much more hackable than that.

    --
    Unexpect the expected!
  69. What it will take to make GPS Hacking Hot. by mp3car.com · · Score: 1

    Hacking your navigation device will be HOT after the community develops three things.

    • Passively user generated map data (not to be confused with actively generated map data from openstreetmap.org) (see blog entry comparing active vs. passive maps)
    • Open source navigation routing algorithms to use the above map data.
    • Devices anonymously reporting data to improve the above.

    If those three things happen I could see a ddwrt type of pack being developed.

    There is little incentive to hack GPS or PDA devices:

    • Map data is expensive. Free data is mostly unusable for routing.
    • Quality navigation routing algorithms are expensive and/or unavailable.
    • Open source routing isnâ(TM)t as usable as paid options.

    One that is done and a certain mass of users are using the above data and algorithms; maps would become dynamic information sources constantly updated with road changes and maybe even real time road closures, road speed data, one way street information and other valuable tidbits. More advanced devices with accelerometers could make that data even clearer for eventual technology like eco routing.
    If you have to have a hackable linux navigation solution now get a cheap umpc or netbook running igo 8 or another nav engine on wine.

  70. Windows CE 5.0 based units may be your answer by tanveer1979 · · Score: 1

    I have the mio c320, unlocking which was a breeze.
    for around 200$ you can get the ones equipped with traffic.
    Mio is however just one brand, but due to excellent community built around unlocking, its one of the easiest to hack.
    I suggest you head over to gpspassion.com forums to check it out.

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