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Publishers Pressuring MS To Push Indies From Xbox Live?
R. Dobbs writes "Microsoft has reportedly drastically reduced the amount of indie titles it's going to allow on its Live Arcade service — but no such limits have been placed on material from major publishers. Have the publishers themselves been pushing this agenda? And what will it mean for indies? Quoting: 'More and more indie developers are being created, bucking the trend of working for the blockbuster-sized titles of many publishers and opting to control their own development and keep their IPs. This is likely becoming more and more of a concern to major publishers, who seem — especially in ZeniMax's recent purchase of id Software and EA's combination of Bioware and Mythic, as well as Warner Bros. purchase of Midway's IPs and studios — to be doing everything they can to consolidate their power and lock down all the available resources.' When questioned, Microsoft released a statement saying that they're 'a great supporter of independent game development.'"
Then independend developers will produce for the PC, Wii and PS3.... :-)
.... Microsoft's PR statements do not reflect the reality of what is actually occurring.
I've only been buying Xbox arcade / Wiiware games on my consoles for the past 2-3 months, they seem to be the most interesting. Perhaps the trend is turning on itself as it takes so much time to make a larger game nowadays.
my band is more brutal techno punk than yours
Umm, guys? Indie titles get crapped on because they're small, not because of some conspiracy. Large businesses simply don't want to expend the resources and time to make things available for the "little guys", because the net return is so much lower. I mean, hey -- if I can corner 90% of the market by setting up my distribution platform to, say, seven businesses, why should I make that same effort fifty or a hundred times more just to get that extra 10%? I think, if I were in that position, I'd just move on to the next thing and save my money. And yes, it's all electronic. That doesn't make it zero-cost; There's administrative costs to everything and those costs don't go up in a linear fashion as you add more members.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
The only thing they can do now is
buy a spaceship, recruit a crew and do random jobs about the galaxy. Get attacked by criminals and savages, harbor known fugitives.
But they'll still be flying.
I don't juse my xbox much(or pay for a gold subscription). I mostly play xbl games because they are mostly the types of games you can play for half an hour or so.
But as I don't follow what's going on in the xbox world, I rarely discover new xbl games. And the navigation are slow and difficult to find out how it is organized. Sometimes it takes 30-60 seconds for it to display all the information for an XBL game and by then I have lost interest and just go on playing the games I have purchased earlier on.
So I say they should redesign it so browsing gets faster and they can accommodate more titles. Seems like the way it is now they have to limit the amount of titles to make sure people gets to see them.
I think short of a widespread boycott there's nothing that can be done to stop this. Microsoft makes so much money off the constant remakes of games like Call of Duty and Madden that they aren't going to change anything. I'm willing to bet the amount of people who own an xbox with the xbox live service just to play those two games outnumbers (by a lot) the amount of people who will show any kind of pressure on this decision. The real victory for indie developers will be to release games on platforms that don't discriminate, like the computer for instance.
I would like to see some investigation into the claims that the publishers are pressuring Microsoft to do this, not that I doubt it's happening, I just think it would make for a good public hanging.
MS are the reason Firefly was canceled.
Well, Microsoft needs to limit the amount of crap that gets put out there. I mean look at some of these games (http://www.karnnage.com/info.php for exemple). No gameplay, commodore 64 graphics, cmon....
maybe Indies are gathering too much momentum for both Microsoft and the larger publishers. You can squeeze more from a watermelon than you can kiwi. But I would think that Indies would be a great benefit to the platform since they're more susceptible to exclusive deals and probably cheaper too. But maybe Indies are, because of the smaller software effort more likely to be cross platform? From Microsoft's many years of evaluating Linux and open source, they probably know it's easier to work with large corporations than small teams of developers. FYI, the word _work_ is used in a very general way since we are talking about Microsoft and working with someone even includes enacting business methods to eliminate that partner or their product.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
They don't like independents.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Well, perhaps not a conscious collaborative conspiracy, but the result is the same. THe big guys tend to cold shoulder the independents and want them out of the way, or out of their hair.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This is pure lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is true lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is real lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is unadulterated lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is unmolested lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is zesty lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is kah-razy lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is pure lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is true lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is real lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is unadulterated lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is unmolested lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is zesty lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is kah-razy lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is pure lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is true lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is real lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is unadulterated lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is unmolested lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is zesty lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is kah-razy lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is pure lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is true lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is real lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is unadulterated lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is unmolested lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is zesty lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool... This is kah-razy lunacy. Why would anyone stop publishing Indianapolis 500 games? Indie games are, after all, so cool...
It's about Independents.
It's funny. Laugh.
Looks like game developers have finally grown big enough to start considering building their own RIAA/MPAA. I just want to say thanks to the people who only buy games that they have heard of through commercials of or only buy sequels. I also want to thank the graphics whores who only support games that a mega company could afford to make. Without you guys, none of this would be possible. (This also counts for presidential elections etc...)
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
There don't need to be any specific rational reasons behind this. It's simply a matter of species recognition.
Giant corporate behemoths are into slave labor. Their bodies are larger than any group of moral people within it, and so the cost/benefit analysis cancer is much more able to grow in yucky ways. (Is it cheaper to do something awful and pay the occasional price of a lost law suit than it is to not do it?)
Indy companies are much more likely to exist for the express purpose of serving its human masters and not the other way around. So when a large, psychotic company detects another similar species out there in the shared environment doing things differently, it sees it as a criticism of, and indeed. a threat to it's own chosen mode of behavior. Therefore, this Other is labeled "Enemy".
It's kind of like how two geeks of differing opinions will attempt to annihilate one another on instinct. Which version of "True" will become dominant in the world? Blood will flow over this.
-FL
Maaybe, by guiding them to other platforms, this is a great way to support independent game developers.
I noticed that you used the plural, meaning you can thinking of at least two other platforms more friendly to indies than XNA. So then, PCs and what else?
They can always re-publish for the PC as Shareware.
How well does the PC shareware model work for shared-screen multiplayer games, which really need a 25" or larger screen? Monitors that come with PCs are smaller than that, and I'd wager that most PC gamers don't know that they can connect a PC to an HDTV or buy an adapter to connect a PC to an SDTV.
The real victory for indie developers will be to release games on platforms that don't discriminate, like the computer for instance.
Say I design a video game for multiple players that is not FPS or RTS. It's designed such that there is no disadvantage for a player if other players can see his view of the playfield. One way to do this is to place the view far enough out that the entire relevant portion of the arena is visible, like in Final Fight or Bomberman or Smash Bros. or ball sport sims. Another way is to make the players cooperate against the game, like in Rock Band or the "Grand Prix" mode of Mario Kart. So the most efficient way to do this is to have four players sitting on a sofa, holding gamepads, and looking at one big monitor.
In theory, the PC can implement such a design. Input would be through USB gamepads connected to the PC through a USB hub like the one that comes with the Rock Band set. On the output side, HDTVs can display VGA or DVI signals from a PC, and a $40 adapter converts VGA signals into composite or S-Video for an SDTV. Examples of such games include the Serious Sam series and the Lego $MOVIE series. But in practice, SDTV rules two-thirds of U.S. living rooms (source), and most people don't know that these adapters exist because major chains such as Walmart* and Best Buy don't carry them. So what would be a good way to market a console-style multiplayer game for the PC?
Looks like game developers have finally grown big enough to start considering building their own RIAA/MPAA.
They've had one for fifteen years.
Before you mod this as flamebait, please read this whole post:
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As an indie developer myself, I've been somewhat appalled by the utter lack of quality among indie games. We live in a world where there are hundreds of thousands of beautifully designed "indie" websites, but when it comes to indie games, we're apparently supposed to pretend that professional-quality design is something that requires lots of money. We're asked to somehow equate "indie" with "unprofessional".
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This is not only bullsh*t, but it's a disaster for everyone.
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The problem with indie games on X-Box Live is that Microsoft has utterly failed at creating a Darwinian process of user reviews, and user promotion. Because users can't rate games (or vote to have them removed), we end up with an enormous amount of "noise" on X-Box Live. Users are confronted with dozens of truly sub-par, poorly designed games, and given no way to filter the best of the best.
This lack of promotion/filtration disincentivizes both indie and commercial game developers alike, because they end up with something akin to the AppStore-Problem -- which is a glut of too many sub-standard titles.
We don't need more restrictions on indie developers. What we need is quality control, and it needs to be done by (and for) the community.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
If XBLA published every Indie game that applied for it, there would be a flood of really, really crappy games and you could barely find the good ones. If MS is artificially limiting the number of games, it's because it wants to keep the offerings in the 'good-to-great' range and not offer junk just to make some quick cash.
Try this: Name 3 Indie games that was turned away from XBLA that was or would have been successes. If they are being turned away in droves, naming 3 of them should not be that hard.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Luckily there are new guys out there like GameStreamer.com who are supporting the indie community. They have the first open catalog and they're doing it smart, unlike Microsoft. They realize you can do it like iTunes and have EVERY game on there and just sort based on quality and reviews.. no reason you can't have them all. MS Has the money, no clue what they're doing.
I made a TINYURL of this post to spread the word to the indie community: http://www.tinyurl.com/ms-hates-indies .
You're welcome. I always purchase games that I find entertaining. I can't remember the commercial I saw for Braid and I'm sure it's a sequel to something.
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Most indie games get rejected because they aren't good enough to warrant the attention of very many people. And if your indie game looks bad it has nothing to do with your budget except that you were too cheap to pay the salary of an artist or two. I've seen great looking games in 2D and 3D produced by one or two artists.
Is M$ descriminating against people from india?
Or do they not like indie music?
I think the bigger problem with Xbox Live right now are the insane number of just unspeakably bad trash that gets put up there. I don't know if it's still up there, but there used to be a game actually called "Don't Buy This Game" or something to that extint. I think the zinger was, if you did, it basically said "I told you so." There was no game there really. It was 400 points and whether on accident or intentionally I'm sure someone bought it. This is an extreme example, but Microsoft was not monitoring submittals for this kinda garbage. It got to the point where at least I would never visit the indie game section.
And now? Well, if there's 35 slots that's a good thing, it means the cream of the crop will rise. I honestly couldn't name you over 10 of the "indie" games on Live worth buying. Basically, this means that MS can actually push the indie games section and encourage people to visit it instead of slightly burying it like they have now. Giving indie developers an outlet on a console is a great thing, but all the craps been pulling everyone down. I only see this as a positive. And, if there's a resurgence of great talent and great games that start to spill in from the indie community, I'm sure MS will change their stance...but for now, this limit is doing exactly what it should, it's going to discourage people from spending 2 days programming "Poop II: Revenge of the Turds" and hoping someone actually buys it.
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
You don't. You market it for a console
But the article is about the growing difficulty of qualifying to do just that. Once I have a nearly complete video game designed for a PC, how do I make my company big enough to convince the major console makers to allow my company to port the game to a console?
If it's good enough it'll be published, if not it won't.
Try telling that to Bob.
Or the end user might have only an SDTV.
...which works just as great for PC's as it does for consoles if your PC has a S-Video port.
I've seen more PCs without an S-Video port than with one. On the other hand, every game console I've owned has come with a composite cable and had an S-Video cable available. Most people don't know about the $40 adapter to turn VGA into S-Video because brick-and-mortar stores tend not to carry it.
Would it be possible to publish your game as a dvd image to be downloaded and burned to DVD?
Sorry for my ignorance. I'm not an xbox360 hacker and don't know squat about it.
-Viz
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
Is this some more of that insider bubbleworld gamer lingo that really, really, really annoys the rest of the ( non-gamer ) world? And does nothing to enhance the image of hard core gamers? And makes me click to another article? And kills my sympathy for the plight of the Indies?
All aside, I really hope the Indies are ok. They are nice people. I always hoped to visit Indie O Nesia some day.