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Lawyer Jailed For Contempt Is Freed After 14 Years

H. Beatty Chadwick has been in a staring match with the judicial system for the past 14 years, and the system just blinked. Chadwick was ordered to pay his ex-wife $2.5 million after their divorce. He refused to pay saying that he couldn't because he lost the money in a series of "bad investments." The judge in the case didn't believe him and sent him to jail for contempt. That was 14 years ago. Last week another judge let Chadwick go saying that "continued imprisonment would be legal only if there was some likelihood that ultimately he would comply with the order; otherwise, the confinement would be merely punitive instead of coercive." Chadwick, now 73, is believed to have served the longest contempt sentence in US history.

408 comments

  1. Well... by Bin_jammin · · Score: 3, Funny

    do we get to find his treasure now?

    1. Re:Well... by MiniMike · · Score: 3, Funny

      It might be gone already, if anyone else received the Nigerian-style scam (so I thought) letter from a PA prison as I did last year...

    2. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Props to H. Beatty Chadwick for not giving in to the (wo)man

  2. I love that movie! by jbacon · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of Nothing but the Truth, except his motives were a heck of a lot different. Furthermore, Kate Beckinsale is ridiculously hot.

    Never give up the source

  3. I guess by gubers33 · · Score: 4, Funny

    This guy must have really hated his ex-wife.

    --
    Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.
    1. Re:I guess by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yup, to intentionally lose all your money in bad investments is spiteful enough, then you realize this was 14 years ago, BEFORE the current economic downturn or the dotcom crash. That must have taken effort!

      Of course, his ex-wife is the judge who sent him to jail for it, so there's a lot of hate on both sides.

    2. Re:I guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, he really did loose the money...we can't always assume big bad man is trying to keep down the weak, weak woman

    3. Re:I guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're confused - it's the other way round.

      Are you really that stupid? SHE was the one trying to TAKE his money from him. Did SHE earn it? Not unless you class her as a prostitute.

      Oh, wait...

    4. Re:I guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This guy must have really hated his ex-wife.

      No kidding! He must have fucking hated that bitch.

  4. Why didn't this happen sooner? by afidel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's seriously scary that this guy was basically in debtors prison for 14 years! Wasn't it a bit obvious after say 6-12 months that the guy either didn't have the money or wasn't going to ever hand it over? I can't believe that the original judge thought it was fair and ok to keep this guy in jail for over a decade on the assumption (not proof) that he was lying.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    1. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by westlake · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wasn't it a bit obvious after say 6-12 months that the guy either didn't have the money or wasn't going to ever hand it over?

      If he has it - and refuses to pay - in jail he stays. You can't allow mule headed stubbornness to defeat the law.

    2. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 1

      You assume that our justice system makes sense.

      --
      I came, I conquered, I coredumped
    3. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Bigby · · Score: 1

      So you are sent to jail for not paying, but let out of jail if you can't pay. Some would say they can just donate all their money to charity, but the court would seize that money.

      What would they do if I got a hold of the cash and literally burnt it? Would I avoid jail?

    4. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      As the judge apparently said "continued imprisonment would be legal only if there was some likelihood that ultimately he would comply with the order; otherwise, the confinement would be merely punitive instead of coercive."

      Why is he getting out now then?

    5. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're right, the guy should suffer forever because he made the mistake of getting married.

      If this doesn't illustrate to men everywhere why getting married is a stupid idea, nothing ever will. You only have everything to lose by doing it. But no "she's not like that!" and "we're really in love and she'd never want anything from me!". Then it all goes south or she cheats on you and decides she wants 50% of everything you have or ever will have and becomes vindictive and spiteful and you end up giving her $2.5m or spending 20% of your life in prison. All because she decided you needed to pay for all those years of pussy after all (sounds like a retro-active hooker to me).

      Jut imagine how much more fun you could have had without any commitment and for far less than 50% of everything you'll ever earn? Man, I wish I were a woman. It's no risk and all gain!

    6. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by brusk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not a sentence for a crime, it's imprisonment for contempt, refusal to comply with a judge's order. They're fundamentally different things.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    7. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by kevinNCSU · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wouldn't you be willing to do 6-12 months for 2.5 million dollars? That's a large chunk of change, it's hard to say how long a person would be willing to hold out to keep it. And once you've been in for a year your thinking well that would be a huge waste if I gave it up now, I'm sure they'll blink first and let me out soon.

    8. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Depending on the country, you'd do time for burning money.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by gabebear · · Score: 1

      I can't tell if you are being facetious... I hope so.

    10. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? Mine was totally different. We were so in love. Then she turned out to be a cheating ho. Oh, wait, that's exactly what you said. Nevermind, you're right, I surrender.

    11. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh yeah, because insane, out of sync punishment as deterrent works so well.

      The RIAA sues for amounts that exceed anything sensible, did it stop people from copying? We outright KILL people if they killed someone else, did the killing stop?

      If you want to fight crime, fight the reasons to commit it. Unless you're willing to do that, punishment will be no deterrent. It will serve as an act of revenge, it will serve as a tool to ensure the same person will not commit it again, but you will not turn anyone who didn't commit it yet away from it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by MarkvW · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Nope. The guy SHOULD sit in jail. You can't defy court orders. If you can defy court orders, the system loses all of its terror and, consequentially, all of its power.

      If the court loses its power and authority, then people will resort to self-help to resolve their legal problems.

      Don't assume that social stability is always a given!

    13. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Obviously in this case the "deterrent" failed epically - the fine was never paid. So explain to me how the threat of jail was a deterrent to the defendant in this case??

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    14. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by laron · · Score: 1

      After 14 years, that is a pretty big if. Any sane person would have payed after a few months, so IMHO chances are that he didn't have the money and the judge wasted 14 years of his life, never mind a large sum of taxpayers money.

      --
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
    15. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by tsstahl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm a judge. I order you to bend space time with your mind.

      In 14 years there was no other way to ascertain if the guy really had the money? Really?

    16. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Kotoku · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because no likelihood that he would ultimately comply with the order exists. He either cannot or will not ever pay up.

    17. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Ok, so "stealing" $2.5M from your ex-wife carries a 14 year prison sentence, but robbing a bank of a similar sum probably carries a smaller punishment. How exactly is that just?

      How is it that refusing to testify to a court should carry a lifetime prison sentence (if the judge feels so inclined)?

    18. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 0, Troll

      If you can defy court orders, the system loses all of its terror and, consequentially, all of its power.

      You heard it here first: the US court system is a tool of terrorism.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    19. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Sique · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He didn't get into prison because he was convicted of withholding money, he was in prison because he didn't follow a court order. So the prison was to coerce money out of him, not to punish him for something.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    20. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't get contempt. Why should judges have the power to imprison people at all?

      By all means, make lying to a judge a crime. Then when somebody does it, they are charged with it, a jury rules against them, and then they are sentenced to a finite prison term.

      Contempt of court essentially allows people to be imprisoned without the consent of a jury - that is just wrong.

    21. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by tnk1 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Thank God then, that we have Gitmo. At least there, people aren't subjected to the US Judicial Terror system.

    22. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Does anybody else see this distinction as being rather weak?

      IMHO, prison time should require a jury verdict to sustain it. I'm all for punishing people for perjury or interference with the functioning of the courts, but that should be a criminal charge like any other.

      This guy spent 14 years in prison based solely on the decision of a single judge, without any kind of trial. That is just over the top.

    23. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by yacc143 · · Score: 1

      Ok, the problem is that nothing stops a judge from ordering an impossible.

      And impossible is quite a gray area.

      It starts from the legal problems (judge in country A orders company to commit crimes in country B, that could lead to fines or even jail times for the employees should the company comply, the US has this tendency to believe their law rules the world, privacy and data protection laws in other countries, who cares),

      to the provable (mathematically) impossible, e.g. Mr MarkvW, hand over the decrypted content of /etc/shadow on your server? What that's impossible? Don't believe you. Guess I'll have to find you in contempt.

    24. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Stew+Gots · · Score: 1

      You can't allow mule headed stubbornness to defeat the law.

      Right. It's not as if the law has anything to do with justice. It's all about the State, or one asshole judge, imposing its will.

      And if the law is totally whacked - say forcing men who have been proven via DNA not to be fathers pay child support - too bad. That's the price of "social stability".

      Fuck that.

    25. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm more bothered by the continuing concept that someone deserves massive amounts of your wealth simply because they married you.

    26. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      Wasn't it a bit obvious after say 6-12 months that the guy either didn't have the money or wasn't going to ever hand it over?

      If he has it - and refuses to pay - in jail he stays. You can't allow mule headed stubbornness to defeat the law.

      What if he really doesn't have it? I'm curious, since IANAL, are your rights completely stripped away when you are held in contempt? For example, was he not allowed legal council? Could he not make an appeal?

      If not, it sounds to me like this guy was given a free background lesson in the United Socialist Soviet America style of communism, which saddens and disheartens me.

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    27. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Refusal to pay and inability to pay are also two fundamentally different things. Assuming the guy is telling the truth (innocent before guilt), then his entire imprisonment was punitive and unjust. He did not have the 2.5 million before, but after some lawsuits he'll probably have it now. It is not contempt of court if he has no means to pay the debt. It will be the burden of the court to prove he had means and refused to pay. Otherwise, he was unjustly imprisoned and is due damages.

    28. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by hodet · · Score: 1

      no I wouldn't. freedom is what i place the highest value on.

    29. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by sacdelta · · Score: 1

      With the recent economy, even if he had the money then, its gone now.

      --

      Brought to you by: "Al"toids - the curiously weird mint.

    30. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by MindKata · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Why is he getting out now then" and "He either cannot or will not ever pay up"

      They are very good questions. All the links tend to give the same information, so I did some more searching and found this...
      "The petitioner, Mr. Chadwick, has been imprisoned without trial for eight years in Delaware County, Pennsylvania for 'civil' contempt because he has been unable to deposit with the court $2.5 million in cash, funds which he maintains were part of an illiquid overseas real estate investment he does not control."
      http://www.amatterofjustice.org/amoj/cases/chadwick3.htm

      This news was from 2003, so its very disturbing if he has been held 14 years without trial?. Also surely they would know after 14 years the legal status of his overseas real estate investments?.

      It seems the legal system and government suffers from systemic procedural bureaucracy so bad that its taken years more to final free him, but suffocatingly bad bureaucracy is no excuse to allow the legal system to behave the way we have been lead to believe only happens in police state countries.

      --
      There are 10 kinds of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
    31. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by gabebear · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know how you can justify "civil contempt" being an offense where you automatically lose your personal freedoms. If anything, these judgments that seem to come from parallel worlds force people to seek self-help to resolve their legal problems. If the guy had just killed his wife he would have likely gotten out sooner.

      "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B.F.

    32. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by tsstahl · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up, and deliver chocolates to his/her house.

    33. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by brusk · · Score: 1

      It's not about lying, it's about refusing to comply with an order. For example, what if rather than lying a witness simply refuses to answer questions, or even to show up to testify? Or refuses to turn over evidence? It's not perjury, but the state has a strong interest in compelling people to provide evidence, otherwise the legal system would not work. Maybe the current procedure isn't the best imaginable, but I'm not sure that a jury trial is the solution.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    34. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Lying under oath already is a crime - it's called perjury. However, trying someone for perjury requires that you prove your case "beyond reasonable doubt".

      If a man claims not to have $2 million (and we assume that if he does he isn't stupid enough to hold it in bank accounts that can be easily traced to him), how on Earth do you prove he's lying "beyond reasonable doubt"?

    35. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by sckeener · · Score: 1
      No. If this were a criminal case, I'd say sure, but it is civil.

      For much less than the cost of housing him in prison for 14 years, they could have hired someone to find his assets.

      Even then, his ex-wife is just one of many debtors that need to be paid. We have systems for dealing with that and they are out side the prison system.

      --
      "Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
    36. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by lenkyl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      well for starters you don't jail him for 14 years.

    37. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      . If the guy had just killed his wife he would have likely gotten out sooner.

      I was thinking the same thing. If the guy really had 2.5 million the wife and/or the judge would have been dead meat.

    38. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by flajann · · Score: 1

      It's not about lying, it's about refusing to comply with an order. For example, what if rather than lying a witness simply refuses to answer questions, or even to show up to testify? Or refuses to turn over evidence? It's not perjury, but the state has a strong interest in compelling people to provide evidence, otherwise the legal system would not work. Maybe the current procedure isn't the best imaginable, but I'm not sure that a jury trial is the solution.

      You assume that the legal system "works" at all. Nope. It is broken. It's one where it will slam you whether you are innocent or not just so it looks as though "something was done."

      Not MY definition of a working legal system!

    39. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Nope. The guy SHOULD sit in jail. You can't defy court orders.

      And what if its not possible for you to obey the court order? I mean, a court can order me to fly to Alpha Centari all it wants, its not something I cna do.

    40. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ok, so "stealing" $2.5M from your ex-wife carries a 14 year prison sentence, but robbing a bank of a similar sum probably carries a smaller punishment. How exactly is that just?

      How is it that refusing to testify to a court should carry a lifetime prison sentence (if the judge feels so inclined)?

      Oh, it's better than that. He could have beaten her to death and gotten a lighter prison sentence.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    41. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      It's seriously scary that this guy was basically in debtors prison for 14 years! Wasn't it a bit obvious after say 6-12 months that the guy either didn't have the money or wasn't going to ever hand it over?

      That's not even the scary part. The scary part is that, if you don't believe in the criminal justice system, and refuse to be judged by it (say, without the judge sitting down with you as a reasonable adult and coming to some mutual understanding), they'll just take your life away anyhow. So basically, you're entitled to justice as long as you play along with THEIR definition of justice.

    42. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      I'm a judge. I order you to bend space time with your mind.

      Done. Unfortunately you won't notice judge, because you're bent too.

    43. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by TerranFury · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And this is yet one more reason why the government shouldn't be giving people marriages. Anyone. Gay or straight. There's no reason to regulate marriages -- which are a religious institution and personal committment -- in any way, whatsoever. If there are financial things attached to a marriage, they should be handled as a private contract like anything else. And with the contractual obligations of marriage made explicit rather than existing in the legal code, I think this kind of garbage would end -- because two people in love wouldn't make each other sign grossly unfair contracts.

      It's funny: I'm not particularly libertarian. I like government to do stuff. But I'm pretty staunchly libertarian on this because it seems like such a personal issue, and such an intrusion of government into the intimate parts of our lives which are simply not other people's business.

      Some hypothetical questions and answers:

      "Doesn't this mess up taxes?" Why does it need to? If someone is a dependent, it shouldn't matter why from the government's point of view.

      "But what if an 80-year-old wants to marry a 10-year-old girl?" Then he's committing statutory rape. We don't need separate laws.

      "But what if someone with AIDS marries someone without it? Shouldn't we require that people be tested?" Do we require government certification of sex partners in any other context?

      "Don't we need a way to understand 'who is a couple' for adoption purposes?" Is it currently illegal for single people to adopt children? Or to raise children?

      "But what about bigamists? Polyamorists?" The government doesn't snoop in people's homes to keep polyamorists from living together. Why should it care if people decide to make these kinds of arrangements long-term and official?

      The end. That's what I think.

    44. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Should have happened after the statute of limitations occured, like 7 years or so.

    45. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Whorhay · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That just shows that he was smart enough not to get caught committing a crime.

      A judge should be able to jail someone and direct a prosecutor to file charges. Contempt of court should be a criminal charge that requires a jury conviction.

      In this case the guy alledgedly committed perjury or fraud, maybe even both, but is held in contempt. If the prosecution can't prove it then he shouldn't be imprisoned.

      What if you went to court and the judge demanded that you produce the secret moon rock presented to Mickey Mouse by Dirk Diggler the night of the Roswell "incident"? You obviously can't do what he asks, do you want to spend 14 years imprisoned until you do?

    46. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by NonSequor · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, I'm sure that he could have left any time he liked if he either paid up or filed for bankruptcy allowing his ex-wife's claim to be settled alongside his other debts.

      IANAL, but I'm guessing his legal theory was that if he didn't have the money to pay, the court order was invalid as it was formed under false pretenses. I'm not sure I buy that. If immediately prior to the beginning of divorce proceedings, he has $5m and then before those proceedings are complete, he claims to have pissed all of that money away, I think at the very least he owes her some portion of what he has left. And his failure to deliver at least that is clearly a continued violation of the court order.

      If we're dealing with a question with clear, attainable conditions for compliance then I'm okay with a judge deciding to this sort of thing, subject to all of the usual mechanisms for higher review.

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    47. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by icebike · · Score: 1

      > You can't allow mule headed stubbornness to defeat the law.

      Its debatable which was more mule headed in this case.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    48. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by icebike · · Score: 1

      He didn't have the money you fool!

      How would keeping him in prison bring money into his hands?

      http://www.amatterofjustice.org/amoj/cases/chadwick3.htm

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    49. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by rednip · · Score: 1

      With the recent economy, even if he had the money then, its gone now.

      Not really, as it was 1995ish when he stashed the money; I'm guessing that it's in gold. About that time it was about $350/oz, now it's 940/oz. Of course there is every chance that he laundered it to friends, gave it away to strangers, or was taken to the cleaners, but I suspect that we'll never really know.

      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    50. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      "It's not a sentence for a crime, it's imprisonment for contempt, refusal to comply with a judge's order. They're fundamentally different things."

      So, judge says: "I order you to be in contempt of court." Your move.

    51. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 5, Informative

      So you are sent to jail for not paying, but let out of jail if you can't pay.

      He didn't go to jail for not paying. He went to jail for contempt of court.

      He was getting divorced from his wife, and his wife alleged that he hid $2.5M in overseas accounts. He never contested the existence of the $2.5M, but claimed that he lost it all in bad business transactions.

      The judge said, "OK, show me documentation of these bad business transactions or show me the money." He said, "No." So the judge held in in contempt of court, not as a punishment for not paying, but to coerce him into paying (or at least showing what happened to all that money).

      The whole point of holding someone in contempt is not to punish that person--it is to coerce that person into complying with a lawful court order.

      The new judge found that after 14 years, Chadwick was not going to be coerced into complying with the order by further confinement, so holding him in contempt could no longer be considered a form of coercion. At that point, holding him further would have to be considered punishment without a trial. And as you surely are aware, it is illegal to deprive someone of life, liberty, or property in the US without due process of law (see US Constitution, Amendments 5 and 14).

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    52. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I find amazing is that you actually believe that it was from 2003 simply because the web page has a date written on it. Do you know how easy it is to fake that?
       
      Jesus Christ, people. Don't believe anyone. Not even me! Test out the faking if you want.
       
      Here are some helpful resources:
       
        Information on modifying web pages
       
        Description of your mentality right now, MindKata

    53. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 1

      In 14 years there was no other way to ascertain if the guy really had the money? Really?

      How? The judge can't hire a private eye and an accountant to get to the bottom of every divorce case out there. The judge, on the other hand, CAN throw people in jail. So he threw the guy in jail. I'm not saying it's right, but it was viable.

      Now, this doesn't cast the judge in the best light, and I know nothing of the fine details of American court procedure, so if someone has more info please correct me. But to me, it seems that the primary advantage of the jail tactic is that it's fast and free. I know the government has to feed and shelter and guard the guy for however long it takes for him to break, but that's not the judge's concern. On the other hand, a backlog of cases building because someone is balking IS his concern. So it seems like shunting stuff from the "in" box to the "waiting for someone else to do something" box would be, to the judge, a good idea.

    54. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If a man claims not to have $2 million (and we assume that if he does he isn't stupid enough to hold it in bank accounts that can be easily traced to him), how on Earth do you prove he's lying "beyond reasonable doubt"?

      Yeah, and it can be hard to prove that somebody is a terrorist as well. Does that mean that gitmo is a perfectly reasonable solution?

      Yes, it is quite unfortunate that in order to convict somebody of a crime you actually need to have some proof. That is, it is unfortunate up until the point where you are accused of a crime you didn't commit. Then it turns out to be pretty handy.

      If there is evidence the guy lied, then try and punish him. If there is no evidence, let him go. It is better to set the gulity free than to punish the innocent.

    55. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      The judge made the right decision. Chadwick was being held to coerce him into coughing up the money (or documentation of investment losses). After 14 years, it should be clear to anyone with 2 brain cells that Chadwick is not going to be coerced into coughing up the cash.

      So if he's not being held in coercion, he is necessarily being held as punishment. I'm sorry, but as much as you'd like to, we do not deprive people of life, liberty, or property in the US without due process of law (see US Constitution, Amendments 5 and 14).

      You seem to think he needs to be punished, and maybe you're right, but the fact of the matter is, if he is to face punishment, then he has the absolute right to a trial by a jury of his peers.

      This is America, pal.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    56. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by hattig · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have no problem with the concept that all assets earned/obtained within a marriage by both people should be split equally should that marriage end.

      At the end, there should be no upkeep requirement from one party to the other.

      At the end, assets each person had going into the marriage shouldn't be taken into account, but retained by that person (or the value of that asset if sold off during the marriage). There is an argument that if you get married after a long relationship, that relationship period should also count.

      I.e., if you own five houses, then get married to someone with none, buy two more together then get divorced, you keep six houses (including your original five), they're yours, they get one.

      The only ongoing support should be for children created in the marriage or adopted in the marriage, unless subsequently found out that someone cheated.

      Also the sex of the person should not be taken into account. Cases should be submitted as person A and person B, the above should be fed into a computer, and a figure should come out. The arguments won't be about what each person should get, which is horribly weighted towards the woman, as if they're incapable of work or earning anything when they are, divorce law should come out of the 20th Century at some point. Instead they will be about what went in at the beginning. A pre-nuptial can override, but maybe a prenuptial should be mandatory anyway.

      Burning loads of money after separation isn't an excuse, it's vindictive and silly.

      And I'm sure the above, hastily written concept, has holes in it, so don't get pedantic on me.

    57. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The reason one can be jailed indefinitely for contempt is that one "has the keys to one's own cell", and by complying with the judge's order, they will be immediately released.

      When I divorced, my ex could not buy me out of the house, but we wanted the kids to continue to live there. So, she got title (which, surprisingly, she never registered, presumably to not be on the hook for property taxes while I remained on it), while I remained responsible to the lender for the mortgage. Now, the divorce decree required my ex to make the actual payments. My relief, if she did not, was to have a [b]power of sale[/b] over the property, once I demonstrated that I was making the lender whole (making the payments).

      Well, she never made a single payment, I sued, got that power of sale, and hired a real estate agent to sell it.

      We lost two buyers in a falling market because my ex [b]refused to sign[/b] the agreement of purchase and sale (see, I could offer it for sale, but I could not sell it). I went back to court, seeking, among other things, a finding of [b]contempt[/b] for her ignoring the judge's order to cooperate with the sale.

      She would be jailed if found guilty, until she signed, which she could easily do. (It's not clear, in this case, if the respondent could comply.)

      In the end, she could have dragged the contempt hearings out for two or three visits ("I haven't got a lawyer, yet."), costing me close to $1000 every time we returned to court, and losing yet another buyer as we got close to winter. I agreed to drop the contempt charge in exchange for an irrevocable [b]power of attorney[/b] to sign the purchase and sale agreement in place of her, and the only matter left for the court to rule upon was the matter of the reimbursement of my legal fees (of which I recovered only a small fraction).

      So, given that it's "obvious" that a defendant or respondent can comply with a judge's order, jailing for contempt is not the "big stick" it is made out to be, to be used against those that can't comply, as a "fast track" to imprisonment. It's no different than being held without bail until a speedy trial. In this case, respondent could have offered the defense that he can't comply. But, I gather that he chose 14 year in jail instead of making the legal case.

      --
      In Liberty, Rene
    58. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      We used to have this idea here in America that you are presumed innocent of crimes until actualy getting 'caught.' That being 'caught' involves things like 'evidence' and 'trial.'

      This story makes me mad. Real fucking mad. A founding-father kind of mad that I didn't know that I could feel.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    59. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However, in this case there doesn't appear to be any evidence that he can actually produce the property at stake. If you're going to put somebody in prison there ought to be evidence to back this up. If you have evidence, then you should have no trouble convincing a jury to back up the sentence with a verdict.

      Contempt of court should be a crime exactly like any other crime. If you commit it then you must be charged and tried and a jury should decide your fate.

      Otherwise if a judge is ticked at you they can basically toss you in prison and your only recourse is an appeal. If judges and appeals were so infallible, then why is it the right of every citizen in every civilized nation to be tried by a jury of their peers?

    60. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn, and then a real bitch of a wife turned around and appealed his grant of habeas corpus relief after he had already spent eight years in prison. And the appeals court reversed the grant of habeas corpus based on a technicality?

      God diggers and judges with their heads up their asses. Hallelujah USA!

    61. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by publiclurker · · Score: 1

      He didn't get 14 years for stealing from his wife, he got it for not following the judges orders. Judges kind of take offense to that.

    62. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Wowlapalooza · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Judges make decisions of law, juries make decisions of fact. If the judge thought this guy was lying about his financial situation, that's a decision of fact, and it's not his place to make it unilaterally, at least not in a way that results in the defendant's loss of liberty for 14 years.

      I have no fundamental problem, conceptually, with the crime of Contempt, but if the penalty is incarceration, then it needs to follow the usual legal process, i.e. effective representation, presenting evidence in accordance with the usual rules of evidence, presenting testimony in accordance with those respective rules, opportunity for rebuttal, respect for the decisions-of-law/decisions-of-fact distinction, proper instruction/composition/integrity of the jury, etc. Also, the judge presiding over a Contempt trial should not be the same judge against whom the Contempt was allegedly perpetrated. That's such an obvious, flagrant conflict of interest it shouldn't even be considered as an option.

    63. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Atlantis-Rising · · Score: 2, Informative

      Under most circumstances, you can appeal a contempt order.

      If a judge ordered you to provide something obviously ridiculous, your contempt conviction would be overturned by an appeal court.

      --
      "It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Peak Performance
    64. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      For example, what if rather than lying a witness simply refuses to answer questions, or even to show up to testify? Or refuses to turn over evidence?

      Then pass a law making those sorts of things against the law. Then when somebody does them, they can be tried for their crimes.

      Maybe the current procedure isn't the best imaginable, but I'm not sure that a jury trial is the solution.

      Why not? For some reason it is the constitutional right of every citizen in almost every civilized nation to be tried by a jury of their peers before being punished for commiting a crime. Juries aren't perfect, but their drawbacks are far superior to the alternatives.

      Why not have a trial? Why not have the court provide evidence that this guy is lying, and then have him convicted and punished appropriately?

      Suppose he had killed his ex-wife - he could actually spend less time in prison, and he also wouldn't have had to pay her the money. How is merely concealing his wealth (assuming he was doing this) worse than murder?

    65. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      applause good sir, I couldn't agree more about the marriage stuff.

    66. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can appeal a conviction also. So, why do we need juries?

      We need them because the power of the courts need to be held in check by the citizenry. It is not merely enough to have an avenue of appeal.

    67. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the judge had good reason for awarding his wife 2.5 million dollars (which given my experience with divorce law is probably crap!), then make him pay. Ruin the guys credit, garnish his wages, make the guys financial life a living hell. But 14 years for simply refusing to pay a debt owned in a divorce is crap. Granted I dont know the context of the rest of the story, but refusing to pay alimony or something is not a criminal offence in my opinion.

    68. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and I take offense when people call me names. That doesn't mean that I can put them in prison for 14 years.

      Interference with court procedures isn't an offense against a judge, or against the courts, or against the country. It is an offense against the people of the United States (or whatever jurisdiction you're in). The punishment should be set by the people - by their elected representatives. Then a jury of one's peers should determine if the law was violated, and then a judge should hand down the sentence that was set by the legislature.

      I'm sure the judge sure was ticked. That is completely irrelevant to justice.

    69. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by battlemarch · · Score: 1

      What happened to "innocent until proven guilty?"

      --
      Oh, come, come, come. Without a monster or two, it's hardly a quest... merely a gaggle of friends wandering about. - Owl
    70. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by C18H27NO3+ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is mind-boggling.
      There was the story a few weeks ago about a guy that raped a 4-year-old and was sentenced to 1 year in prison.
      This guy spends 14 years in jail because a judge just doesn't believe he doesn't have his wife's allowance to give.
      People in power that don't have a shred of sense and ruin people's lives aught to be shipped off to a non-existant island somewhere.

    71. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by sjames · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you're saying he was guilty of contempt unless or until he could prove otherwise? Something sounds wrong with that......

      What's wrong is that a judge can actually give someone an indefinite sentence without any proof of guilt whatsoever All he has to do is call it "contempt" and petulantly pound on his desk with a hammer.

      If the original judge actually HAD proof that the defendant had the money, he could have issued a court order to have it handed over to the wife. 14 years later, he apparently could not find 2.5 million or even a substantial portion of it in the defendant's name.

      The only reasonable interpretations of this are that he did not have the money at all, and so was jailed for an indefinite time with neither proof of guilt (in fact, without being guilty) nor due process primarily because a judge personally didn't like him OR he has a sufficiently serious mental illness that he probably can't properly be considered responsible for his actions and certainly should have been in a mental ward rather than a jail cell.

      I simply can't fathom that a person of sound mind could prefer to sit in jail for over a decade rather than turn over money that he had.If the report in the article that before being jailed, he rationed toilet paper are true, that can only support the idea that he is and was mentally ill.

      It's posted as humor, but anything beyond a cursory thought about it suggests that something very UN-funny and UN-American has happened here.

    72. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      It's no different than being held without bail until a speedy trial.

      Except that you can't be held without bail except under certain circumstances (a high risk of flight, or a serious danger to the community). Also, there was no trial at all, let alone a speedy one. So, the current situation is completely different from being held without bail until a speedy trial.

      In your situation, there were lots of remedies available besides jailing your ex until she signed some paper. The courts should have the power to simply assign you the title with a lean for half of its value given to your ex. Then you could sell it at will, and evict the current occupants if necessary. Or, the courts should have the power to assign power of attorney to you. Or, the courts should be able to just outright sieze the property, sell it, and distribute the proceeds.

      I don't see how contempt needs to be this process that is above trials and juries. If somebody does something wrong, then charge them with a crime, try them, and then punish them if a jury of their peers agrees. What's so hard about that (beyond meeting the basic protections that should be afforded to any accused person)?

    73. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Sique · · Score: 1

      I am not the fool who put him in prison. I just explained why he was there. There are means to prove that you are unable to pay a sum put down in a court order, they are called insolvency (which is latin, means 'not fluent' and is the legal version of declaring you are unable to pay). He didn't do that. So the assumption that he could have paid if he wanted to is sound.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    74. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because two people in love wouldn't make each other sign grossly unfair contracts

      ...And in here you can see a rare species known as the optimist, also known as the naive romantic that are fast becoming extinct in our dangerous world...

      Although I do agree with you on many points.

    75. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by tsstahl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How? The judge can't hire a private eye and an accountant to get to the bottom of every divorce case out there.

      And they aren't supposed to.

      The other side in the case _can_ do all those things. In fact, they should do all those things. Before a trial there is a period of time called discovery. As you would assume, it is the time to for both sides to discover stuff about the other side.

      IANAL, and all that; nor do I know any specifics beyond what we have all read here. It is my belief that this guy is a 'victim' of assumed knowledge.

      This guy being a lawyer, you can assume he has a lucrative career. You can further assume that he has the knowledge and ability to utilize shelters, loopholes, whatever to hide wealth.

      The usual recipe is that the other side claims it can't find anything because he is hiding it so well. Based on the accusation and assumed knowledge, the judge believes this to be true absent any sign of the money. The guy gets to spend some time in the crossbar motel mulling over his stratagems.

      Maybe the guy is a pig headed fool; maybe he is flat broke. Regardless, FOURTEEN YEARS FOR CONTEMPT IS A CRIME AGAINST SOCIETY.

    76. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Read the link I posted.

      Contempt of court is not something you can file a motion and get out of. It is absolute unfettered power of one judge over any individual who pisses him off (inside or outside of his courtroom).

      Further, there is no constitutional basis for it. It is a power simply usurped by the Judicial branch.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    77. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by MindKata · · Score: 1

      Troll, its a *FACT* he has been in there 14 years!!! ... so you've totally missed the point, in your very off topic troll rant about easy web page editing?!?

      --
      There are 10 kinds of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
    78. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

      the judge's feelings are not the issue here. ticked or not, doesn't matter. contempt means you're in jail until you comply. that's the law, and I don't see people lining the streets trying to get that changed. it's not a punishment at all - it's a means to coerce results.

      a guy (or girl, whatever) refuses to pay child support, a judge orders him to explain himself, the guy does nothing - if we let that person run around free while we write stern letters, nothing happens. This way, we get to let the person decide to either follow the legal process or stay in jail.

      It was not applied correctly in this case - it should have been obvious a long time ago you weren't getting money. it's not that he was hiding evidence or not cooperating. He probably submitted bank account details and flat out said I can't pay, I don't have the money. that's what you should be angry at - not at the idea of contempt.

    79. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by afidel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly, recently a Cleveland Browns football player got 30 days for vehicular manslaughter (he got trashed and killed someone) and this guy gets 14 years for not having money to give to his ex, that's just a travesty of justice pure and simple.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    80. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But to me, it seems that the primary advantage of the jail tactic is that it's fast and free.

      Average cost to house a prisoner: $25k-$35k USD per year

      Time this man spent in jail: 14 years

      Estimated cost: $350k-$490k

      It would have been cheaper to hire an investigator.

      Neither fast, nor free.

    81. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anarchduke · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Because contempt of court doesn't work the same way as criminal charges for assault or rape or any other crime. A contempt of court charge is the Judge's ultimate method of enforcing order in the courtroom.

      Was this an abuse of the power to hold people in contempt of court? Absolutely.

      The power of a judge to keep his court orderly, however, is of utmost importance to the continued functioning of our legal system. Furthermore, the man obviously was telling the court to fuck off. I am sure he could have proved he didn't have the money. I can't imagine him losing 5 million dollars and not being able to show just how he pissed it away. And I don't see a lawyer not keeping legal paperwork to cover his ass in this instance.

      Thus, I conclude that he was telling his ex-wife, via the court system, to fuck off. I don't admire him for treating our court system with contempt, but I have to say the man has balls of steel if he is willing to go to prison for 14 years all for the sake of spite. Maybe not wise, but definitely very ballsy. I can even see the conversation in prison.

      "What are you in here for."
      "I got a couple of million stashed in offshore holdings and was willing to go to prison rather than let my bitch of an ex-wife have a penny of it."

      "Well, shit, I don't blame you. My ex-wife was a bitch too. That's why I stabbed her with an ice-pick."

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
    82. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Wowlapalooza · · Score: 1

      No, fundamentally anything that results in prolonged incarceration by the legal system must go through an orderly legal process, with appropriate checks and balances, whether you pin the "crime" label on it or not. If the constitutional requirement of "Due Process of Law" can be negated simply by affixing a label other than "crime" to a particular legal process, then this would make a complete mockery of the protections that the Framers intended.

      Law, and the practioners thereof, are supposed to look at the substance of things, not merely at labels or forms. Incarcerating someone for months or years, or indefinitely, is, in substance, a constitutionally-significant outcome, and constitutional protections must not be evadable simply by playing label games. You can call the procedure "fred" if you want, but Due Process of Law must be observed.

      Didn't the "enemy combatant" failed experiment teach us anything? Don't play silly label games with indefinite incarceration. Any judges of integrity will see through that deception, sooner or later. In this case it was "later"; it took 14 years for the injustice to be corrected. Hopefully this has set a precedent which will allow the vindication of other victims of judicial abuse in a much more timely fashion.

    83. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by TerranFury · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow, you chose a bunch of silly "arguments" as your straw men. It's amusing to see someone list five ridiculous "questions" that no one would ask; rebut them; then say, "Q.E.D.!"

      Yeah, kindasorta. But can you think of any better arguments against the idea? Because I haven't. And I thought these were the kinds of concerns people would have. Maybe not people on Slashdot, but people in general.

    84. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it was me, the same would be true of the judge shortly after I left prison, in the most public and spectacular means possible. There needs to be a deterrent to this kind of silliness.

    85. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by mugnyte · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Except you ignore the true ways marriage is used/abused and instead make up some wacky questions.

      Marriage changes certain rights a person has, and allows legal claims that arose because of abuse, not the other way around:

      - Would we allow families to marry off their daughter to older men in return for payment?
      - How would monetary issues, property ownership, health care coverage, duties of care for minors, and land transfers be regulated? Would a couple participate in both, but would we need the proof of identity in each transaction?
      - If a crafty husband walks out on his family and 4 kids, leaving nothing for them, would any crime have been committed?

      Overall, if the government didn't have a single record of which 2 people were married, many of the crimes we prosecute now would get mired down in claims without more than testimonial evidence. It doesn't seem like it would simplify anything, to me.

    86. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That makes no sense at all. In order for there to be a jury, something needs to be in dispute. In the case of contempt of court, there is nothing in dispute. He was ordered to pay, he didn't pay, end of story. No jury could possibly find any other way than he was in contempt. All of the evidence as to whether or not he had the money was presented already, at the original trial, and he was ordered to pay it. He already had his day in court. Now, if your assertion is that he shouldn't have had to pay because there was a mistake in ordering him to pay it, or that he didn't have the money, that is a different story. In that case, he could either appeal the original decision, or failing that, declare bankruptcy. He did neither, he just basically said to the court "I'm not going to pay, and you can't make me".

      In your little fantasy world, where does that process end? If he ignores the first court order, and that automatically triggers a second trial, what happens when he doesn't like the outcome of that? Just ignore it again and expect another jury to hear the second case of contempt? In that case, we may as well abolish the whole legal system, because no dispute is ever going to be resolved by it.

      According to your thinking, if someone is convicted of a crime and is sentenced to prison, all they need to do is escape from prison and that would automatically trigger a retrial of the original case in order for them to get sent back to prison. That is not how it works (I'm guessing anywhere in the world).

      I am not sure I understand at all what you mean by your last sentence. Of course judges and juries can make mistakes, that is why there are appeals. What does that have to do with your right to trial by jury?

    87. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by jcrousedotcom · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apparently, even as recent as his final hearing (in which the judge decided he was to be released) the imprisoned (who is himself an attorney) indicated he would not sign a power of attorney to allow the plaintiff (ex-wife) to confirm the money does not exist.

      FWIW - I do have to say once the case went all the way to the supreme court and the guy *still* didn't comply - let him go (which is what finally happened but probably about 13 years too late).

      --
      Illiterate? Write for free help!
    88. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently that deprivation only applies to punishment.. As in they can do it for other reasons all they want, they just can't punish people by taking all their stuff and putting them in jail, and torture is only for coersion.

    89. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, provide a question which is not "ridiculous." I come upon this argument often, and those seem to be the absolute most common arguments.

    90. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Atlantis-Rising · · Score: 1

      We don't need juries. Juries are a blight on the criminal justice system and the source of far more injustice than any justice they might incidentally have meted out. There is a very good reason that judges try to keep juries at arms length.

      --
      "It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Peak Performance
    91. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you want to fight crime, fight the reasons to commit it. Unless you're willing to do that, punishment will be no deterrent. It will serve as an act of revenge, it will serve as a tool to ensure the same person will not commit it again, but you will not turn anyone who didn't commit it yet away from it.

      So in this case, where a guy was either hiding money from his wife, or refusing to show the judge any evidence that he lost it in the bad investments he says took away his $2.5 million, you're suggesting that society just needs to change the underlying problem? Which problem is that, exactly? That women getting a divorce are allowed to go after assets in the marriage? Or that the guy's quite possibly a dick? I see.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    92. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by bensode · · Score: 1

      And this is yet one more reason why the government shouldn't be giving people marriages. Anyone. Gay or straight. There's no reason to regulate marriages -- which are a religious institution and personal committment -- in any way, whatsoever. If there are financial things attached to a marriage, they should be handled as a private contract like anything else. And with the contractual obligations of marriage made explicit rather than existing in the legal code, I think this kind of garbage would end -- because two people in love wouldn't make each other sign grossly unfair contracts.

      This.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenup

      --
      "Keep at least 3-6 full bottles of hard alcohol on hand, a 2 week resignation notice,..." - Poetmatt
    93. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Leave America.

      Never come back.

    94. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Informative

      This isn't a criminal case. The guy DOES owe his ex-wife $2.5m. If he's not going to pay because he says he doesn't have it, then he needs to allow access to his financial affairs so that the court can see that he doesn't have it. To not do so is contempt and is imprisonable without charge or further trial. This is not a flaw of the system.

    95. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No evidence is required. The fact that he owes $2.5m is not in contention. If he says he can't pay then he's bankrupt. He needs to go through bankruptcy proceedings to follow through on that. And the ex-wife would then get in line for a share of what he does own. That he does not either pay or go through with bankruptcy is contempt. No "belief" or evidence is needed.

    96. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by brusk · · Score: 1

      Why not? For some reason it is the constitutional right of every citizen in almost every civilized nation to be tried by a jury of their peers before being punished for commiting a crime.

      Actually it's not. Relatively few countries, mainly those who follow British legal traditions, have a jury system. You can argue that it's better, fine, but I don't think countries that have different legal traditions are necessarily less civilized (i.e., most of continental Europe).

      On the more general issue, again, maybe we should have a different way of dealing with contempt of court, but making it a crime creates another set of problems: the original trial would have to be put on hold until a decision was reached, and presumably the judge and attorneys present could be called as witnesses. That could further bog down the whole legal process.

      Certainly there could be a system for appealing contempt of court decisions, but jury trials are not necessarily the answer.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    97. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      In the link you posted I read as far as the part where it asserts he does not have the money to pay. No point in reading beyond that because it's wrong. If he doesn't have the money then he can claim insolvency, and the court will see he doesn't have it. The fact that he won't is a sure fire indication that he does have the money (or assets enough to provide it) squirrelled away.

    98. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Pendant here, its spacetime.

      --
      Good-bye
    99. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by orzetto · · Score: 1

      make lying to a judge a crime.

      That single crime would take 50% of all US prison capacity.

      --
      Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
    100. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by BasilBrush · · Score: 0, Troll

      I can see why you'd end up divorced if you ever married.

    101. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For example, what if rather than lying a witness simply refuses to answer questions, or even to show up to testify? Or refuses to turn over evidence? It's not perjury, but the state has a strong interest in compelling people to provide evidence, otherwise the legal system would not work. Maybe the current procedure isn't the best imaginable, but I'm not sure that a jury trial is the solution.

      IANAL but sounds like those would be considered ...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice

    102. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is absolute unfettered power of one judge over any individual who pisses him off (inside or outside of his courtroom).

      Contempt of court cannot be used by a judge on someone who is not violating a court order or disrupting court proceedings. A judge can't like the taste of his drink and find the server in contempt. If you're referring to indirect contempt (ignoring a court order outside of the presence of the judge), someone accused of contempt must be served and provided a hearing during which rebuttal evidence can be presented.

      The ability for a judge to summarily punish someone in direct contempt has been upheld for a very long time. It's the only manner in which a judge can attempt to force the compliance of someone who would otherwise subvert the course of justice. It may have been abusive in this case, but calling it unfettered completely ignores the very widely-covered appeals to other judges and to appellate courts of contempt findings against journalists that withhold information.

      I did go looking for information pertaining to this case, though. I found the following background from a ruling from the US District Court of Maine in 2003 (citations and mid-paragraph line breaks have been removed). In short, he moved money out of the country, it was returned, and then he fled the jurisdiction when told by the court that he had to turn over the money that had been shown to have been available to him. His accounts were then seized, he was arrested and imprisoned six months later, and his 14 attempts at appeal (at the time of the ruling) seeking his release have apparently all been turned down. (There goes the rest of your "unfettered" argument. Fourteen appeals is a significant quantity.)

      In November of 1992, Defendant Barbara Jean Crowther Chadwick filed for divorce from Plaintiff H. Beatty Chadwick in the Court of Common Pleas of Delaware County, Pennsylvania. During an equitable distribution conference in February of 1993, Plaintiff revealed that he had unilaterally transferred $2,502,000 of the marital estate to a partnership in Gibraltar, allegedly to satisfy a debt. After it was discovered that the Gibraltar partnership had returned approximately $2,000,000 to an American bank account and a Swiss bank account, both in Plaintiff's name, 2 and that $550,000 in stock certificates that Plaintiff claimed he had transferred to an unknown barrister in England to forward to the Gibraltar partnership were never received, the Pennsylvania divorce court determined that Plaintiff had transferred the money in an attempt to defraud Defendant and the court. In an order dated July 22, 1994, the state court ordered Plaintiff to return the approximately 2,500,000 to a court-administered account to be held in escrow pending further order of the court. The court further ordered Plaintiff to pay $75,000 to Defendant in attorney's fees and to surrender his passport; and the order enjoined him from further assigning and dissipating marital assets and from leaving the jurisdiction until further order of the court.

      When Plaintiff did not comply with the July order, Defendant filed a Petition for Contempt and for Writ of Ne Exeat or Writ of Capias Ad Satisfaciendum. Plaintiff was personally served with a subpoena directing his appearance at a hearing on the petition, as was his attorney. Plaintiff failed to appear at the hearing, but he was represented by counsel. By order dated November 2, 1994, Plaintiff was found to be in contempt for willful violations of the order of July 22, 1994, and the judge issued a warrant for Plaintiff's arrest. Because Plaintiff had fled the jurisdiction, a hearing was held in Plaintiff's absence on August 29, 1994, after which the state trial court ordered his bank accounts frozen and directed all funds held in his name to be held in escrow pending final resolution of the divorce proceeding. In addition, Defendant successfully sought the attachment of two spendthrift trusts from which Plaintiff, as a life incom

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    103. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had a friend who got divorced and his wife (who had left HIM, incidentally), had his dog put to sleep. I bullshit you not. Divorcing women can be vicious and spiteful in ways that men never even DREAM of.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    104. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by VJ42 · · Score: 1

      So, judge says: "I order you to be in contempt of court." Your move.

      I appeal: court orders can be appealed, at least here in the UK.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
    105. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by VJ42 · · Score: 2, Informative

      this would make a complete mockery of the protections that the Framers intended.

      AFAIK Contempt is a common law principle you inherited from us here in the UK. Your framers would have been quite aware of it.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
    106. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by icebike · · Score: 1

      You should have kept reading.
      Any alleged funds are tied up in overseas assets over which he has no control.

      Courts do not honor insolvency claims with regard to contempt of court citations.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    107. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Magic5Ball · · Score: 1

      Really? I would think that US currency would fall under federal jurisdiction since it issues from the federal reserve and is policed by the Secret Service. Alternatively, does the flexible money now contain enough interesting stuff that it's combustion products would fall under state EPAs?

      --
      There are 1.1... kinds of people.
    108. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Magic5Ball · · Score: 1

      The current justice system could do with less volume. For that reason, we don't bring lawn care violations to court by default. Running every contempt incident through the courts will recurse destructively when someone who hates courts in general becomes an input and is held in contempt...

      --
      There are 1.1... kinds of people.
    109. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by dynamo · · Score: 1

      A - At the end, there should be no upkeep requirement from one party to the other.

      ...
      B -

      I.e., if you own five houses, then get married to someone with none, buy two more together then get divorced, you keep six houses (including your original five), they're yours, they get one.

      ...
      C -

      The only ongoing support should be for children created in the marriage or adopted in the marriage, unless subsequently found out that someone cheated.

      ...
      D - A pre-nuptial can override, but maybe a prenuptial should be mandatory anyway.

      A - I strongly agree.

      B - This is already technically the law, at least in my state.

      C1 - By putting in a rule about "cheating" into the law, you'd open a huge loophole, and discriminate against marriages with more relaxed rules about sex, which there are plenty of. It is also religious discrimination in that it implicitly favors religions which support monogamy. Other religions that support polygamy etc.. are discriminated against, which is illegal.

      C2 - It's ridiculous to put an exception in for cheating if you don't put exceptions in for other potentially family-harmful actions - drinking to the point where the whole family is ruined, spending all the money on gambling to the point of bankruptcy, refusing to allow the children to attend school, or just deciding they are no longer interested in being part of the family. The only way to cover all these things fairly is to NOT have special rules about them. When it's over, the reason is not important. IF both people want a special cheating rule, they can write it into a pre-nup and it should be respected by the law. But not by default.

      C3 - About the child support itself. Child support should only happen when one parent would rather pay the other than to have custody and support them him/herself. In real life right now, this is inappropriately weighted in favor of custody for the mother.

      D - Pre-nups can't be required. If there are a common set of changes to the laws governing a particular marriage, they should be check-boxes on the marriage certificate request, both parties sign that and can opt-into the child-support obligation, cheating rules, etc.. that you suggest above. Requiring a separate contract just pays lawyers.

    110. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by icebike · · Score: 1, Insightful

      > and his 14 attempts at appeal (at the time of the ruling) seeking his release have apparently all been turned down. (There goes the rest of your "unfettered" argument. Fourteen appeals is a significant quantity.)

      Say what?

      That pretty much PROVES my point of unfettered.

      If anything, it totally demolishes your claim of
      "the very widely-covered appeals to other judges and to appellate courts"

      14 appeals. Over 14 years. Why wouldn't the 13th appeal be just as convincing as the one that finally succeeded?

      The judiciary closes ranks just as effectively as the police in many cases, especially in any case that seeks to question a basic judicial powers.

      And your argument that "The ability for a judge to summarily punish someone in direct contempt has been upheld for a very long time" does nothing to resolve the constitutionality of the procedure. Upheld! By who? Congress? The Executive branch? A vote of the people? Who? Judges!

      The fact that (surprise) Judges agree they have this power, where no constitutional provision of the power exists seems less than convincing to me.

      Yes, I know, lawyers in general laugh up their sleeves at any appeal to the constitution. Still, I can't help it.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    111. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by dynamo · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but Contempt of Court should have a maximum term of 30 days without an independent trial in front of a different judge to determine if it is reasonable. Judges who leave people in contempt of court longer than that without review should be put in an adjacent cell.

    112. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There comes a point, where the lesson really is: just have the judge and ex-wife killed. And if anyone files a wrongful death suit, have them killed too.

    113. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      He's old, he's probably getting sick.

      Rather than force the taxpayers to pay the bills for his depends, catheters and geritol they let him out. How he'll have to spend whatever money he's got left on his own health care, and he didn't get to use it (if he had it) for pleasure.

      Makes sense to me.

    114. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      Not sure if what you said is meant in jest or not.

      I have more confidence in a jury generally to come to a reasonable conclusion given what they are presented than a single Judge.

      However there have been times when our justice system has failed us as a society, although it could be argued that we were failing as a society to uphold the justice system properly. The Jury nullification of civil rights laws is a prime example. Those were not truely a "jury of your peers" situations though.

    115. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by BrookHarty · · Score: 1

      The first you sit in a cell because you committed a crime, the 2nd you sit in a cell because committed no crime.

    116. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by bughunter · · Score: 1

      Pedant here. It's "pedant."

      And it's "it's."

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    117. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...perhaps so that he could die in peace? The article didn't say what his state of health was.

    118. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the guy is a pig headed fool; maybe he is flat broke. Regardless, FOURTEEN YEARS FOR CONTEMPT IS A CRIME AGAINST SOCIETY

      Indeed. Hell it should have pretty obvious after, say, 5 years; heck if they REALLY thought he had it and they wanted it they could have just tortured the guy right away to make him caugh it up. Seeing as that's back in style these days.

    119. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After this insane prison sentence, the man is 74 years old. The article asks him what he will do with the rest of his life. If I were him, I would systematically hunt down and murder the judge, the ex-wife, and the ex-wife's lawyer.

      14 years is a long time.

    120. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by McFly777 · · Score: 1

      While I agree with your point that there are situations where recursive application of the proposed jury review would be ridiculous, there is a good point here. Judges should not be above review (and they aren't, just the process takes too long) and in many cases a jury is the proper instrument of review. You don't want to rely on an appeals court as they (if I understand correctly) mostly only determine if the proper procedures were followed. The concept of a jury of peers was supposed to prevent overreaching judges and laws.
       

      Unfortunately, even in the situations where our jury system is used, it has become perverted over the years. Judges will tell you that the jury is only to decide the facts of the case, and not determine whether the law really should apply to the situation presented, but it is the jurors right to do just that. Some would say that it is the jurors responsibility, as it is a part of the people's checks and balances over the government.
       

      Please don't believe just me. IANAL, etc. Instead, go to the Fully Informed Jury Assoc. web site for a better explanation, with proper legal citations etc.

      --

      McFly777
      - - -
      "What do people mean when they say the computer went down on them?" -Marilyn Pittman
    121. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by afidel · · Score: 1

      She would be jailed if found guilty

      Except you aren't found guilty of contempt, you are ruled in contempt by a judge. That is a very important distinction, and one that should not exist. If you are to be put in jail for more than 30 days it should require a jury of your peers to find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    122. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by jafiwam · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      It seems to me like the judge had good reason to think he's lying.

      For fucks sake, if he lost 2.5 million, there's no receipts? No prospectus? No Fidelity account and history of day trading? No small business owner who says "yeah, he gave me money, I lost it in my business" If the guy wasn't lying, accounting for where 2.5 million went should be easy. Heck, with that much, he probably has an accountant who could whip up a report.

      Furthermore, it is very very clear on the divorce papers for the filee and the second party what will happen upon hiding or otherwise restricting or even lying about money during the divorce. Go directly to jail due to contempt.

      So he's either refusing to cooperate by paying up, or refusing to cooperate by not providing a good paper trail. Either way, he's refusing to cooperate and the contempt of court jail time is well deserved.

      Your freeper fucking troofer shit link means nothing moron. Nobody need read link, comprende?

      He's lying. He's a lawyer, of course he's lying.

    123. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by jafiwam · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Ah, so he deliberately hid it after the divorce filing.

      You sir, are a fucking moron.

    124. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Juries only make decisions of fact when there is a reasonable dispute as to what the facts are. In this case (contempt), there are only two facts: he was ordered to pay $2.5M, and he did not pay $2.5M. The only possible dispute he could present to those facts are: I was not ordered to pay it, or I did pay it. Neither could reasonably be found to be true, so there is no need for a jury.

      And no, "I can't pay it" is not a dispute of those facts. That is a dispute of the original trial, not the contempt. And he has tried 14 appeals, at both the state and federal levels, and every one failed, so you can't really say that the legal process broke down somewhere.

    125. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      On the more general issue, again, maybe we should have a different way of dealing with contempt of court, but making it a crime creates another set of problems: the original trial would have to be put on hold until a decision was reached, and presumably the judge and attorneys present could be called as witnesses. That could further bog down the whole legal process.

      The legal process wasn't designed to be efficient - it was designed to be fair and just. If we wanted efficiency a judge would just look at the evidence, talk to anybody they wanted to, and issue a ruling. Almost any trial could probably be disposed of in a few days that way.

      In the current case, locking the guy up for 14 years hardly greased the wheels of justice, either.

      There is no reason the original trial needs to be held up - the trial can move on without the testimony in question. The punishment for witholding the testimony can then be made appropriate for the effects of witholding it (assuming that a conviction is sustained).

    126. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The new judge found that after 14 years, Chadwick was not going to be coerced into complying with the order by further confinement, so holding him in contempt could no longer be considered a form of coercion. At that point, holding him further would have to be considered punishment without a trial.

      Many would argue that it passed beyond coercion much sooner than 14 years.

      And as you surely are aware, it is illegal to deprive someone of life, liberty, or property in the US without due process of law (see US Constitution, Amendments 5 and 14).

      Like... say... holding someone in prison for 14 years because they cannot provide you adequate documentation? Btw, he did not say "No.", he said "I cannot."... big difference.

    127. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, the guy should suffer forever because he made the mistake of getting married.

      Pretty sure that is what being married is like.

    128. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by julesh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Marriage changes certain rights a person has, and allows legal claims that arose because of abuse, not the other way around:

      It shouldn't change anything; that's the point. The legal status of two people who are married should be no different to the legal status of any other two people who are dependents (e.g. cohabiting partners).

      Would we allow families to marry off their daughter to older men in return for payment?

      Before I answer the question, remember that this happens anyway, whether or not the system permits it.

      Now: If their church (or whatever other marriage-issuing authority they chose) permitted it, yes. This would, however, be completely meaningless as the person forcibly married could simply choose to ignore the marriage if they desired.

      - How would monetary issues, property ownership, health care coverage, duties of care for minors, and land transfers be regulated? Would a couple participate in both, but would we need the proof of identity in each transaction?

      The same way they are for cohabiting partners at the moment. Quite simple, really.

      If a crafty husband walks out on his family and 4 kids, leaving nothing for them, would any crime have been committed?

      Yes. Probably along the lines of failure to pay court-arranged child support. The marriage may also (at the option of the couple at the time of the marriage) have included a contract to share possessions in some fashion, at which point he may also be in violation of that contract, and could be ordered to comply and (like this lawyer) imprisoned if he refused to comply with the court's order.

      Overall, if the government didn't have a single record of which 2 people were married, many of the crimes we prosecute now would get mired down in claims without more than testimonial evidence. It doesn't seem like it would simplify anything, to me

      Why does whether or not two people are married even enter into any criminal procedings? It doesn't need to.

    129. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Yup. It would be far more efficient to just line the people up after araignment and issue summary judgments. However, efficiency isn't our goal here.

      If somebody comits contempt, they can be tried for contempt. If they commit contempt during their trial in front of the jury it might have an impact on their verdict (juries are allowed to consider the demeanor of the witnesses). If they're just generally disruptive they can be barred from the courtroom (their attourney would of course remain). It isn't like we need an infinite loop or anything.

      Sure, it is less efficient, but it is more just.

    130. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by McFly777 · · Score: 1

      I agree with most of what you said, except for the blanket statement quoted here:

      Judges make decisions of law, juries make decisions of fact.

      Although you won't get a judge to admit it (they aren't allowed to) the jury has the right to try both the law and the facts of the case. Go to the Fully Informed Jury Assoc. web site for a better explanation and proper legal citations, etc.

      --

      McFly777
      - - -
      "What do people mean when they say the computer went down on them?" -Marilyn Pittman
    131. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by jcr · · Score: 3, Informative

      This guy spent 14 years in prison based solely on the decision of a single judge, without any kind of trial.

      Looks like two of his constitutional rights were violated. We have a right to a jury trial for any dispute involving an amount of money over twenty dollars.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    132. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      The fact he was let out without complying with a lawful court order is the crime.

      If we are not a nation of laws, we are a nation of thugs.

      I hope a thug shoots you, your dog, and your family. Don't you dare whine and ask for justice, you just asserted it has no power and can dispense none.

      Moron.

    133. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by MrMista_B · · Score: 1

      What if a 'crafty wife' walks out on her family and 4 kids? If you're going to be speaking on hypotheticals, that's at least as common, if not more so.

    134. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by jcr · · Score: 1

      No jury could possibly find any other way than he was in contempt.

      A jury could find that he wasn't able to pay, as opposed that he wasn't willing to pay.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    135. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or for the price of a couple .22LR bullets (about 20 cents, we'll use two, to make it humane) he could have been put down in the back room after his first day of contempt.

      What's your point? A just society is expensive. Deal with it or go move to some African shithole where money always means getting out of jail no matter what you do.

    136. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Fnkmaster · · Score: 1

      I would assume that if he was willing to prove by disclosing statements from all banks, etc. that he had actually lost the money, and shown the court where the money had gone (or rather, had a forensic account pick through his statements), that he wouldn't have had to spend 14 years in prison.

      If somebody screwed me out of $2.5M that a court had ordered them to pay me, I'd want them to sit in jail and rot if they were too stubborn to prove that they had lost the money.

      If on the other hand, this was some sort of massive judicial abuse of a guy who was genuinely down on his luck, then I take this all back and the judge should be drawn and quartered for jailing a guy who legitimately had shown that he didn't have the assets to pay a settlement.

    137. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In order for there to be a jury, something needs to be in dispute. In the case of contempt of court, there is nothing in dispute. He was ordered to pay, he didn't pay, end of story.

      Except, there was a fact in dispute - where he could pay. Additionally, I don't think that there are any circumstances where a man can be sent to prison for a long term based on a summary judgment without the ruling of a jury (or a guilty plea). That is - other than contempt.

      In your little fantasy world, where does that process end? If he ignores the first court order, and that automatically triggers a second trial, what happens when he doesn't like the outcome of that?

      Well, the second trial would convict him for a criminal matter - not a civil one. If he sentenced to prison they would just haul him off to prison - whether he likes it or not is irrelevant.

      According to your thinking, if someone is convicted of a crime and is sentenced to prison, all they need to do is escape from prison and that would automatically trigger a retrial of the original case in order for them to get sent back to prison.

      Hardly. There is already a conviction and judgment on their record, and they can be stuffed right back in prison. Now, if you wanted to charge him with escaping from prison so as to make him stay in prison longer, that certainly should require an additional trial.

      My objection isn't the enforcement of judgments. If the plaintif can identify money then the court should order the account frozen and handed over. If the plaintif can identify property it can likewise be siezed. If the defendent refused to testify they can be charged and convicted and punished (if a jury of their peers agrees). Once a jury finds somebody guilty of a crime they can be sentenced, and most criminal sentences do not require cooperation from the defendent to enforce (when they do it is usually in the defendents interest to cooperate - such as when given a suspended sentence).

      I'm not suggesting that defiance of court orders should be taken lightly. All I'm suggesting is that nobody should be placed in jail without the agreement of a jury of their peers. It doesn't really sound all that unreasonable, does it?

    138. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      14 different appeals (state and federal) did not find that he didn't have the money - they all think he did have the money, and they all had access to a hell of a lot more evidence than you. Therefore, the most likely explanation is that he is simply a spiteful old bastard who would rather sit in jail than pay the ex-wife. And actually, he made out pretty well - 14 years for $2.5 million. How long would it take you to make $2.5 million?

    139. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      This isn't a criminal case. The guy DOES owe his ex-wife $2.5m. If he's not going to pay because he says he doesn't have it, then he needs to allow access to his financial affairs so that the court can see that he doesn't have it. To not do so is contempt and is imprisonable without charge or further trial.

      Agreed.

      This is not a flaw of the system.

      Here, I disagree. Nobody should be held in prison without being charged with a crime. Contempt simply should be made a crime, and those who commit it should be charged, tried, and punished.

      In this case a jury could decide whether there are reasonable grounds to determine that he is witholding payment, and that the original judgement was reasonable enough that it ought to be enforced.

    140. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, by all means. Let's promote justice by executing those who are tasked to administer it.

      THAT will work, I am sure. ... (only in freeper republofacist la la land of course)....

    141. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Wowlapalooza · · Score: 1

      this would make a complete mockery of the protections that the Framers intended.

      AFAIK Contempt is a common law principle you inherited from us here in the UK. Your framers would have been quite aware of it.

      Oh, I'm sure they were aware of it. But, you know, part of the reason we went through the whole American Revolution thing (did you hear about that? it was in all the papers), wrote and ratified a Constitution, a Bill of Rights, etc. was to establish greater personal freedoms and liberties than the English legal system permitted at the time.

    142. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by afidel · · Score: 1

      We have a system for ascertaining guilt or innocence, it's called trial by jury. Also there should be a limit to the length of punishment for a single act of simple theft, and it's probably less than 14 years.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    143. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course he was allowed legal council, and he did file an appeal. In fact, he filed 14 of them, at both the state and federal levels. Each and every one failed. The most recent appeal found that his claim that he couldn't pay 'completely lacks any credibility'. Despite having plenty of opportunities, he never presented ANY evidence that he could not pay, in spite of the mountain of evidence that, in fact, he COULD pay. Prior to his arrest, he didn't even bother showing up at the hearings he was ordered to attend.

      This guy would rather spend time in jail than pay his ex-wife. The fact that he spent 14 years there was 100% HIS decision, not a judge, jury, or the legal system.

    144. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      One problem is that you're apparently limiting the split to tangible assets.

      There are lots of marriages in which one partner supports the other partner in ways that enable that other partner to make more money. One spouse might put the other through medical school, or stay home and take care of the kids. The wife of a high executive will usually be expected to drop any of her career plans to support her husband.

      I don't think we want to ban these sorts of arrangements. They can lead to benefits for the couple and society.

      However, I don't think we want to disregard these sorts of arrangements come divorce. A spouse who skimped and worked for money and made sacrifices for years to put the other through med school has done a lot of the work, and deserves a share of the benefits. If assets are to be split equitably on divorce, they should each get a share in the MD degree. Since that's not possible, they should each have a chance to benefit from the MD degree financially.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    145. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Wowlapalooza · · Score: 1

      Though courts have inherent power through civil contempt to enforce compliance with their lawful orders, the justification for coercive imprisonment as applied to such contempt depends upon the contemnor's ability to comply with the court's order.

      . That's from Shillitani v. United States, 384 U.S. 364 (1966).

    146. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by VJ42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      this would make a complete mockery of the protections that the Framers intended.

      AFAIK Contempt is a common law principle you inherited from us here in the UK. Your framers would have been quite aware of it.

      Oh, I'm sure they were aware of it. But, you know, part of the reason we went through the whole American Revolution thing (did you hear about that? it was in all the papers), wrote and ratified a Constitution, a Bill of Rights, etc. was to establish greater personal freedoms and liberties than the English legal system permitted at the time.

      You kept the English legal system as it was then almost entirely the same*, that includes contempt. I'm not intimately familiar with the US constitution but I don't see anything that makes this unconstitutional. Had your founders seen fit, they had the chance to abolish it, they didn't. I doubt they saw anything wrong with it. Indeed, even in this extreme case from everything I've read it seems to have been used appropriately, they guy seems to have gone through several judges who all believed he had the money but was refusing to comply with the court order, so he remained in contempt. He's had the keys to his cell from day one.

      *Aspects of the current US legal system are closer to the old english one than parts of the current English one, e.g. we no longer have jury selection.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
    147. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      contempt means you're in jail until you comply. that's the law

      Is this law written down somewhere, and was it passed by a legislature and signed by a governor/etc? And, when you violate the law, aren't you entited to a trial by a jury of your peers to determine whether you are in fact guilty of violating the law?

    148. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      Why wouldn't the 13th appeal be just as convincing as the one that finally succeeded?

      Maybe the last one shouldn't have succeeded. On multiple occasions, the courts found his ex-wife's evidence more compelling than his own. Let's say that the money really is gone. Maybe he's got a fraud case against his ex-wife if he can prove that her evidence was forged. But what if the money isn't gone, and is waiting for him, perhaps to show up overseas and start living large off the interest that $2 million (plus whatever the stock is worth) racked up in that time? Some people really must win at any cost, and 14 years in prison is what he was willing to give up to prevent his wife winning in the divorce case.

      And your argument that "The ability for a judge to summarily punish someone in direct contempt has been upheld for a very long time" does nothing to resolve the constitutionality of the procedure. Upheld! By who? Congress? The Executive branch? A vote of the people? Who? Judges!

      All three branches, actually (the people don't get to vote on federal legislation or rules). As the following is part of statute law, it must have been passed by Congress, signed by the president, and enforced by the courts.

      United States Code Title 28 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure), Part III (Court Officers and Employees), Chapter 43 (United States Magistrate Judges):

      Section 636. Jurisdiction, powers, and temporary assignment
      (e) Contempt Authority.-
      (1) In general.- A United States magistrate judge serving under this chapter shall have within the territorial jurisdiction prescribed by the appointment of such magistrate judge the power to exercise contempt authority as set forth in this subsection.
      (2) Summary criminal contempt authority.- A magistrate judge shall have the power to punish summarily by fine or imprisonment, or both, such contempt of the authority of such magistrate judge constituting misbehavior of any person in the magistrate judgeâ(TM)s presence so as to obstruct the administration of justice. The order of contempt shall be issued under the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.
      (3) Additional criminal contempt authority in civil consent and misdemeanor cases.- In any case in which a United States magistrate judge presides with the consent of the parties under subsection (c) of this section, and in any misdemeanor case proceeding before a magistrate judge under section 3401 of title 18, the magistrate judge shall have the power to punish, by fine or imprisonment, or both, criminal contempt constituting disobedience or resistance to the magistrate judgeâ(TM)s lawful writ, process, order, rule, decree, or command. Disposition of such contempt shall be conducted upon notice and hearing under the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.
      (4) Civil contempt authority in civil consent and misdemeanor cases.- In any case in which a United States magistrate judge presides with the consent of the parties under subsection (c) of this section, and in any misdemeanor case proceeding before a magistrate judge under section 3401 of title 18, the magistrate judge may exercise the civil contempt authority of the district court. This paragraph shall not be construed to limit the authority of a magistrate judge to order sanctions under any other statute, the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, or the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    149. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If he doesn;t have the money he still oes $2.5m and needs to go through insolvency so that his creditors (including his wife) can be paid from what assets he DOES have.

      There's no need for a jury. This isn't a question of a crime that needs proving. That he is disobeying the court is a matter of record. It's a civil matter, compounded with contempt for not following the remedy instructed by the court. There is nothing for a jury to do.

    150. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Magic5Ball · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure why you've attempted to change the argument to summary judgment out of the blue, but maximizing total justice in society (if that could somehow be quantified) is almost certainly not equivalent to maximizing the number of jury trials when resources, time and the number of involved parties are considered.

      Trying contempt before a full court may be more just for the relatively small number of contempters as compared to the total number of accused, but the delays it would cause would certainly be less just for the hundreds or thousands of non-contempters already detained and waiting to get to a trial at all, along with all other parties to the trial in which the contempt is alleged to have occurred if the contempt trial and its appeals have to complete before the contempt interrupt is resolved in the original trial. An important reason we use the contempt construct in the first place is they they are an effective tool to reduce delays to trial proceedings.

      If an admitted but not convicted murderer contempts her way through every justice in the state, and then dies before the original murder trial, then no justice would have been served, save the murderer's own with respect to the contempt trials. Even if contempt trials are non-blocking, their availability do nothing to help the original trial since they do not plausibly increase compliance with orders in any way.

      The Sixth Amendment requires a speedy trial as much as it does fair trials for those accused of crimes, in recognition that justice delayed is justice denied. A special court could be established for contempt cases if that is the wish of the citizenry. But within the current infrastructure, simply criminalizing contempt would unjustly affect a greater number of people to lesser extents (more accused and victims would have to wait for available prosecutors and defenders and trial dates, there would be a greater number of accused and victims in the form of contempters and justices, and the amount of time available for individual justices to preside over trials would be reduced) than those involved in unjust exceptions such as the one in this story.

      If incarceration for contempt did not satisfice what we want out of that part of the justice system, we'd be more actively stumbling around for new alternatives.

      --
      There are 1.1... kinds of people.
    151. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's promote justice by executing those who are tasked to administer it

      Administer? You mean abuse.

      And it works quite well. If the system itself does not provide remedies, people will seek them outside the system. Often that is the only way the system ever changes.

    152. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      That's his claim. But it;s irrelevant. If he doesn't have the money to pay then insolvency is the answer. The only reason NOT to do that is that the bankruptcy procedure would find his real financial situation. i.e. Not the one you naively believe.

    153. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it's not so much a requirement. Keep in mind, they DID release him all the same. 14 years is quite a bit bogus, really.

    154. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait a sec. Hold on. Calm down. Deep breath. First, the guy is not charged with any crime, and has not been found guilty of anything. The guy was found to owe someone $2.5M, and he was ordered to put that money in escrow with the court. He did not. He appealed that finding 14 times, and each time the outcome was the same - he owes the money, AND has the ability to pay it. So now you want a new court proceeding, because the prior 15 were not enough. OK, so now you want a new trial on the contempt charges. There are only two facts to the defense case: he was ordered to pay the money, and he did not pay the money. The only defense possible for those are: I was not ordered to pay the money, and I did pay the money. Is there a greater than 0% chance that any non-tampered jury could find either of those defenses believable? No. The 'evidence' you want is simply the court order (which remember, has been appealed 15 times), and the lack of any payment to the court. The only evidence he could show is a receipt from the court stating he paid it, and even HE is not claiming that is the case. Because there is no chance that any reasonable jury could find other than that he is guilty of contempt, there is no need to go through a trial (remember, he is not charged with any crime). As soon as the guy decides to comply with the order, he is free to go.

    155. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by BitterOak · · Score: 1

      You can't allow mule headed stubbornness to defeat the law.

      Which law is that precisely? I am unaware of any law which mandates a 14 year jail sentence for failing to pay debts.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    156. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 1

      You'd think it would have been easier to get POA, or title with lien from the court (the latter would have worked out very well for my kids), but that would have meant arguing for that as a remedy, whereas failing to comply with a court order was clearly contempt on my ex's part and far easier to argue.

      We (myself with council) did have to show that she could comply (i.e. sign the papers), but that would have been trivial as she did not claim an incompetence defense (she would have lost the kids in that case).

      The problem we had was that she'd agree in open court, then fail to follow the order, we'd have to bring her back to court, she'd agree, fail to follow the order, etc. Eventually, she would have tried the judge's patience, and she'd be ruled in contempt, but we had a buyer waiting (very patiently, considering the circumstances).

      My realtor worked wonders! The buyer was fully informed what he was getting into, the price reflected this (and the horrible condition my ex put the house in -- I think she was trying to render it unsalable), and finally agreed to give my ex 30 days to vacate. My ex wanted the first $5k of proceeds ahead of my liens (I had about $30k in liens against the property for the mortgage I'd been paying, getting it out of foreclosure, and legal expenses) as well. I agreed to these terms IF I got a POA. So, the POA came from a negotiated settlement, and not by order from the court.

      My alternative was an evaporating buyer in a downward spiraling market, with an occupant destroying the house for which I was responsible for the mortgage. Yes, I had a "hold harmless" provision in the divorce decree, but other than rapidly diminsing equity in the house, my ex had no assets.

      So, we agreed to drop the contempt charge IF she signed a POA, which we got four notarized copies of before she left the courthouse. Armed with that, I concluded the sale. What pissed me off was that we did not recover legal expenses to bring the contempt action on the grounds that because my ex granted a POA, there was no contempt ruling.

      But, I expect if it went to trial, we would be required to demonstrate that my ex could have complied with the original order, but refused.

      --
      In Liberty, Rene
    157. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Trying people for contempt only delays other trials if the total resources available to the courts remains fixed. If you simply build more courtrooms then you can accomodate the additional load. The question is whether justice is worth the cost of justice.

      As far as summary judgement goes - the reason I brought that up is that it is analogous to what happened here. Some have argued that no facts are in contention therefore there is nothing for a jury to try. Well, that amounts to summary judgment. I imagine that in a criminal court a jury verdict is always necessary to imprison somebody unless the right to a jury is waived or there is a guilty plea. It doesn't really matter whether there are facts in dispute.

    158. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is nothing for a jury to do.

      Except convict him. There have been other cases in history where there was "nothing for a jury to do" and yet a jury verdict was still necessary. There have even been cases where the judge basically instructed the jury to return a guilty verdict because no facts were in dispute, and yet the verdict was still required.

      If he doesn;t have the money he still oes $2.5m and needs to go through insolvency so that his creditors (including his wife) can be paid from what assets he DOES have.

      Bankruptcy doesn't exist for the benefit of creditors - it exists for the benefit of debtors. Those creditors can pursue collection against his assets without his cooperation. He only needs to file for bankruptcy if he wants to be shielded from these collection activities.

    159. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 1

      She would be jailed if found guilty

      Except you aren't found guilty of contempt, you are ruled in contempt by a judge. That is a very important distinction, and one that should not exist. If you are to be put in jail for more than 30 days it should require a jury of your peers to find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

      Dunno about the distinction. In my case, we had to make a case for contempt. And, my ex was provided a public defender to counter the contempt charge. (What really pissed me off was that she, instead, argued the civil matter regarding recovery of legal expenses, when she was assigned in a criminal capacity.)

      I think the issue here was that the respondent (as it was a divorce, and therefore civil case) chose to not appeal the contempt ruling on the basis of an inability to comply.

      --
      In Liberty, Rene
    160. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by bws111 · · Score: 1

      OK, but the original court and 14 appeals have all found that he DOES have the ability to comply, and that his claims otherwise are 'completely not credible'.

    161. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by sexybomber · · Score: 1

      I say, "Okay, I've just complied with your order. Therefore, by definition, I cannot be in contempt of court. With all due respect, Your Honor, you're not making any logical sense. Are you feeling all right? I know it's a bit stuffy in here, maybe we ought to break for lunch and get some fresh air."

    162. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 1

      Contempt of court essentially allows people to be imprisoned without the consent of a jury - that is just wrong.

      Well, the police can imprison you without consent of a jury.

      But, you are entitled to due process.

      I think, in this case, the respondent chose to not appeal the contempt ruling, because he did not want it demonstrated that he could, in fact, comply.

      --
      In Liberty, Rene
    163. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by zsau · · Score: 1

      [b]power of sale[/b]

      Completely off-topic, but why do I keep seeing these square brackets around html tags? If you know html, how on earth can so many people use the wrong kind of brackets? It's not just one person, I see it regularly here!

      --
      Look out!
    164. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by LordEq · · Score: 1

      two people in love wouldn't make each other sign grossly unfair contracts.

      This.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenup

      Not "this". A grossly unfair prenuptial agreement is a pretty good indication that you're not dealing with two people in love. More likely, you have one person driven by greed presenting a prenup stacked in his/her own favor, and the other person motivated by love—or some other factor, possibly—to go along with it.

    165. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by zsau · · Score: 1

      Juries are actually in much more limited use outside of the United States. In Australia, the Parliament gets to decide whether you have a right to a jury (only trials on indictment have the right, and Parliament gets to decide if a trial is on indictment). In other countries, they're only the right for specific serious offences. In yet other countries, like Germany, they're not used at all.

      --
      Look out!
    166. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by brusk · · Score: 1

      There is no reason the original trial needs to be held up - the trial can move on without the testimony in question.

      What if, for example, someone refuses to turn over key evidence, such as documents that would be necessary to show fraud? The first trial can't proceed, and if the punishment for contempt were less serious than that for fraud it would create an incentive to not provide evidence.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    167. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So we should rephrase the constitution to: It is illegal to deprive someone of life, libery, or property without due process of law for more than 14 years.

      It sounds reasonable.

    168. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Bankruptcy doesn't exist for the benefit of creditors - it exists for the benefit of debtors

      Sure, like for example keeping this idiot out of prison. He seems to prefer 14 years inside to that benefit though.

    169. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by zsau · · Score: 1

      he has a sufficiently serious mental illness that he probably can't properly be considered responsible for his actions and certainly should have been in a mental ward rather than a jail cell.

      So ... if someone would rather go to jail than give his ex-wife $2.5 mil, he should be locked up in a mental ward. In that case, our friend the lawyer would still be deprived of his liberty.

      Me? I'm in favor of anything that puts lawyers behind bars.

      --
      Look out!
    170. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nicely done.

      Thank you.

    171. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by edschurr · · Score: 1

      I think they're BBTags. They're used in certain forums and they're similar to HTML but they're not HTML. The poster might just be familiar with them from spending time on another forum.

    172. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Women are not entitled to a man's money. That is the end of it.

    173. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah what's with these rich people being forced to get married? Errr. I mean its not like transfer of wealth and power through marriage was the gold standard for centuries? Err.

    174. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Here lies one of the bigger issues people don't think about from outside court rooms.

      The crime was not following the lawful court order, the proof of that is easy to see. Whether or not that order was created with good information is kind of up to the judge, they are there to do exactly that, they judge and they usually are fairly intelligent folks that have worked in that industry a long time and think that they have a good idea when someone is being truthful.

      This guy was probably doing all sorts of squirrely things to avoid showing the court an accurate record of his finances. Perhaps he should have agreed to have his books audited or filed bankruptcy or something else. It looks like he just disobeyed a court order though. The judge that freed him agreed with the first judge that he thought he could pay the penalty. It's hard to say, how long would you sit in jail for $2.5m in cash? (Really like 4 to 5m since he's already paid the taxes on it.. ) I could see a lot of people sitting there for 4-7 years if they got that kind of payout, clean, if you actually busted your ass and earned that money the "hard way?" You might be willing to stick it out longer than that.

      There is a logical problem with contempt of court being tried like any other crime, if that was the case then nobody would ever comply with a court order and when contempt was tried they'd not comply with that trial either. The judge needs to have some bite to maintain order and push the legal process through.

    175. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by icebike · · Score: 1

      But as I've posted, Insolvency need not be honored for contempt of court detention.

      Once you are detained for contempt of court, you no longer have any constitutional rights.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    176. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Iowan41 · · Score: 1

      This sort of thing cannot be allowed to stand. Some judges use 'contempt' in a tyrannous way. There needs to be a short time limit on such things. As to this case, surely the IRS and the SEC would have been able to determine the truth in a few weeks' time.

    177. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Wowlapalooza · · Score: 1

      "But what if an 80-year-old wants to marry a 10-year-old girl?" Then he's committing statutory rape. We don't need separate laws.

      Well, conjugal relations weren't something you mentioned previously as a necessary element of marriage, so theoretically, an 80-year-old and 10-year-old could enter into a platonic marriage without breaking any laws. But, I highly doubt that any religion would sanction such a union, and that only leaves "personal commitment" , which is questionable, at best, with respect to the relationship between individuals of such disparate ages.

    178. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by hattig · · Score: 1

      Oh course, I meant C as in the kid wasn't yours because she had cheated. But indeed it is but one reason for getting divorced, just one where support shouldn't be ongoing from the man even if he was named on the birth certificate. I wouldn't go as far as backdating money invested by the man in the child and returning it, but ...

      I do think a computerised algorithm that takes a lot of things into account, even including career abandonment of one party in the marriage is at least a reasonable first step to working out fair awards, and could lead to fewer cases going to expensive legal proceedings.

      Also when we start dealing with silly amounts of money (tens of millions), it's not like losing half of it is going to destroy any ones life.

    179. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Iowan41 · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, the jury could nullify. The jury could find that the prisoner was unable to comply with the judge's order, or that the judge lacked the authority to order that payment. The jury could nullify the legal basis for ordering that payment. That is why we have juries and not just judges.

    180. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Ardipithecus · · Score: 1

      what do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 50?

      Your Honor

    181. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Ardipithecus · · Score: 1

      a little cutting to highlight more hijinks

      "recently a Cleveland Browns football player got 30 days for vehicular manslaughter... that's just a travesty of justice pure and simple"

    182. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would we allow families to marry off their daughter to older men in return for payment?

      Do we allow families to pimp out their daughters (in states where prostitution is legal)? Why do we need a separate law?

      How would monetary issues, property ownership, health care coverage, duties of care for minors, and land transfers be regulated?

      The same as for any other two random people who wanted to own property (etc) jointly.

      If a crafty husband walks out on his family and 4 kids, leaving nothing for them, would any crime have been committed?

      If he signed a contract agreeing to support them, then yes. Otherwise, no.

    183. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need them because the power of the courts need to be held in check by the citizenry. It is not merely enough to have an avenue of appeal.

      I thought the Judge can override any decision made by a Jury. (like if they find a Defendant Guilty, and he decided to overrule them)

    184. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by sjames · · Score: 1

      GO to jail? Perhaps not if it's a really nasty divorce, but I would think he might cool off and think it over at some point in 14 years.

    185. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by religious+freak · · Score: 1

      IINAL, but I believe he went to jail for 14 years, not prison, and I believe there's a distinction between the two, regarding powers of judges. I think it would be pretty difficult for a judge to send someone to prison for 14 years w/o trial, but jail is another matter. But like I said, IINAL.

      --
      If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
    186. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by brusk · · Score: 1

      That's similar, but a slightly different issue. What some seem to be suggesting here is that a criminal statute similar to that against obstruction of justice be created for actions that block the progress of a trial, such as a refusal to testify or disrupting the proceedings.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    187. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Divorces are really a dumb thing to do financially. A spouse should never get 50% of everything you own unless that person were raising your children. I hate it how money and material good are involved with divorces.

    188. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      (he got trashed and killed someone)

      According to what I found, some ran in front of him on a road where he was speeding (50 in a 40 - I do that). He then stopped and called the cops immediately - this is hardly a drunk hit and run you're trying to imply. His BAC was fairly high - .126, but there's not much proof that it would've been different had he been sober.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    189. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why should she even get half of all made during marriage? What about a guy who gets a huge inheritance from his parents the day after he marries? A huge severance for 25 years service? She deserves half of that too? Not good incentives nor fairness.

    190. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by mugnyte · · Score: 1

      Before I answer the question, remember that this happens anyway, whether or not the system permits it.

      Now: If their church (or whatever other marriage-issuing authority they chose) permitted it, yes. This would, however, be completely meaningless as the person forcibly married could simply choose to ignore the marriage if they desired.

      And if this daughter was a minor? Remember, there is a case that was tried against a church that did just this, and they lost.

      The same way they are for cohabiting partners at the moment. Quite simple, really.

      Except we'd fill the courts with claims to ownership or liens that would only have heresay as evidence. I'd rather not wait behind that docket. A state may explicitly declare how ownership works within marriage (CA's 50% law) or it may not, but it overwhelmingly simplifies things from the onset.

      Yes. Probably along the lines of failure to pay court-arranged child support. The marriage may also (at the option of the couple at the time of the marriage) have included a contract to share possessions in some fashion, at which point he may also be in violation of that contract, and could be ordered to comply and (like this lawyer) imprisoned if he refused to comply with the court's order.

      So now you're slowly edging back into a optional contractual definition that most people would take anyway (when viewed as insurance toward the other party fulfilling obligations such as taxes, childcare, property). The state formalizes this contract and adds a few other things (hospital visitation, rights of survivorship, credit responsibilities) and they called it "Marriage".

      Overall, think of the meta-level: Two people would be able to disagree on the fact if they were even married, ever. Either side (yes/no) could be abused:
        - Yes : Stalker ex-boyfriend claims he's married to starlet. Were they? Must we really have a case to decide this?
        - No : Family abandonment by 1 party in the relationship after X years. "We were never really married, I have owe them nothing" Sorry, no "contract" no crime? Do you really want a society built around that much welfare?

      The state attempts to keep a formal switch in place (and the ceremonial aspect to it) called Marriage so that all these messy details are at least somewhat filtered through a point: It's when 2 witnesses, an officiant, a notary, and a country records clerk all interact with 2 people to ensure they "enter freely and willingly" into a loving bond that has certain rights and obligations. It's not perfect, but it's better than a lot of other options.

      And romantically, who wants to have a giant meandering semantic discussion instead of following social custom? Marriage is really fun when two people are in love, so why spoil it?

    191. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting, but I believe the state does have a valid reason to regulate marriage. Children. Only when they have child-bearing relationships (traditionally between married couples) regulated, can the government provide incentives and benefits to the people raising kids. Why should the government want to do this? So that a next generation exists, even after wars.

    192. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Atlantis-Rising · · Score: 1

      I'm not joking in the slightest. On average, juries are composed of people of below-average intelligence with absolutely no legal experience or expertise whatsoever. Moreover, sociology studies have demonstrated that jury groups are very, very prone to overreaction simply due to the fact that they operate in groups and do not have to explain or justify their reasoning.

      Basically, you'd rather be judged by twelve people who are almost certainly going to overreact and who are stupid and don't know anything about the topic on which they are deciding than a single person who's spent their entire life to date doing exactly what they're doing now and who is constantly scrutinized by their peers and superiors, not to mention has specific training.

      Would you like surgical decisions to be made by a committee of laypeople? No? Then why would you entrust your freedom to one?

      --
      "It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Peak Performance
    193. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by cryogen01 · · Score: 1

      We outright KILL people if they killed someone else, did the killing stop?

      One assumes the odds against a repeat offense are rather high, so I'm going to vote yes.

    194. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      .126 BAC isn't just a couple of drinks.

      And he is a football player, a male with a presumably (possibly very) high weight.

      Therefor, it is almost certainly more like 8 or 9 drinks and straight behind the wheel or something comparable.

      And he earns enough to easily afford alternate transportation (a cab, a limo, etc).

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    195. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you fucking kidding me?

      Read what you posted again and think long and hard about it. You're proposing that HE file for bankruptcy so that she can lead a rich and extravagant lifestyle. This kind of bullshit is why the divorce system is just plain broken and it's very likely the cause of more than one homicide.

    196. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      First, the guy is not charged with any crime, and has not been found guilty of anything.

      Fucking B.I.N.G.O.

      He has spent 14 years in jail and has not been charged with any crime, and has not been found guilty of anything.

      That makes me fucking founding-father-mad.

      he owes the money, AND has the ability to pay it.

      Was there a trial which determined that he has the ability to pay it?

      No? That makes me fucking founding-father-mad.

      There are only two facts to the defense case: he was ordered to pay the money, and he did not pay the money. The only defense possible for those are: I was not ordered to pay the money, and I did pay the money.

      Only two? How about 'I do not have the money.'

      Under your beautiful fucking world view, a judge can always imprison someone for eternity by simply saying that person has to pay a sum more than is possible to pay. Not charged with a crime. Not convicted of a crime. In jail for eternity.

      That makes me fucking founding-father-mad.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    197. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by professionalfurryele · · Score: 1

      He refused to give his former spouse power of attorney so she could reasonably attempt to recover the money. I'm certain if he had given her that power he would be riding the next bus out of jail.

    198. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 1

      Because I fscked up. I've spent to much time recently in another forum that dislikes HTML.

      --
      In Liberty, Rene
    199. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To not do so is contempt and is imprisonable without charge or further trial. This IS a flaw of the system.

      fixed that for you.

    200. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      And he is a football player, a male with a presumably (possibly very) high weight.

      Irrelevant. Blood volume is almost wholly dependent on height, so it's reasonable to guess it around 5-6 beers. It's certainly impaired, but the burden is on the state to prove that the impairment is what caused the crash, and when he claims that the person darted into the road (which I've seen too many times) and when he stayed at the scene and called the cops himself, it's a hard thing to prove.

      So yes, he was drunk behind the wheel and killed someone, but this isn't something to get all outraged over.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    201. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We outright KILL people if they killed someone else, did the killing stop?

      yes, I've never seen anyone who was executed kill someone again. ;-)

    202. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by FLEB · · Score: 1

      How doesn't this conflict with the Constitutional right against deprivation of liberty without due process?

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
    203. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      touché

      --
      Good-bye
    204. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1

      "So yes, he was drunk behind the wheel and killed someone, but this isn't something to get all outraged over."

      Actually, this is something to get all outraged over, drinking and then getting behind the wheel puts us all in danger.
      This is simply unacceptable behaviour.

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
    205. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Juries are a result of believing in actual democracy, that is to say, what the people believe to be true simply is true as a result of them agreeing on it.

      This isn't always fair, and this isn't always equitable, but it is the American way. In all honesty, I'd rather be tried by a judge alone in most cases I can think of anyway.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    206. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Just to be a jerk myself for a moment, what entitles her to any of the $2.5 million he earned as a lawyer and through his investments anyway?

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    207. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue is that it took 14 years, during which he was never convicted of a crime. You should not go to jail for 14 years for cheating your ex-wife out of 2.5 million dollars. Regardless of what the law says about contempt of court, the situation was entirely unacceptable. If he absolutely refused to pay it should be considered some sort of theft or fraud, not violation of a judge's order. Then he could be charged with a crime and sentenced appropriately- opposed to being imprisoned without due process of law for 14 years.

    208. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by multimed · · Score: 1

      But if he's actually hidden the money and is lying/has lied to the courts, then why wouldn't he just claim insolvency and not declare the assets there either?

      --
      Vote Quimby.
    209. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by countach · · Score: 1

      Bankruptcy doesn't help if you are in jail because the judge thinks you have the money, and you won't cough it up. Bankruptcy would just put you in front of another judge who would presumably put you in jail for the exact same thing.

    210. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by khallow · · Score: 1

      [rant]Because other forums require brackets. Slashdot doesn't let you edit, so if you fire and forget, they're forever.When I post on several forums, I sometimes get the notation mixed up.[/rant]

    211. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..why is it the right of every citizen in every civilized nation to be tried by a jury of their peers?

      Well, not so much in "every" as in "many" civilized nations operating under more common-law-like systems, really.. if the right to a trial by jury would be the mark of a civilized nation, you're dismissing large swathes of Europe as barbarians with bones shoved through their noses.

    212. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by compro01 · · Score: 1

      And, AFAICT, decided to not include it in the constitution.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    213. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by k-macjapan · · Score: 1

      The player in question is Donte Stallworth. For what it is worth, there were also trace amounts of weed in his system. For complete coverage of the situation check this link.

      http://blogs.nbcsports.com/system/mt-search.cgi?search=stallworth&IncludeBlogs=14&limit=20

      It is quite likely that he will be suspended indefinitely by the commissioner of the NFL Roger Goodell.

      At any rate, I know sports isn't the flavour of the week,month,year here however, if you are is interested in the NFL then I would suggest the following site.

      http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/

      It is run by a lawyer by the name of Mike Florio.

      Cheers

    214. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Depends on the circumstances. Someone shooting someone else in a gang war is likely to repeat it, given the chance. Someone shooting his wife to avoid divorce isn't necessarily (unless he gets married again).

      It depends mostly on the motivation for the murder. If it's hatred for a group, the chance for a repeat offense is high, at least as long as that group is not extinct. If it's for money (gun-for-hire), very likely as well as long as there are people willing to pay for the death of a person. If it's hatred for a single person and that person is dead, the chance is zero, the only person he wanted dead is dead, mission accomplished.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    215. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      I suspect the $2.5million is in contention. It is hard to get to the bottom, but if the ex-wife was awarded say 50% of his assets that the court said was $5million, but he is saying is now $1 million due to bad investments, he cannot pay the $2.5million, but does not need to either, he only needs to pay $500,000 now and there is no bankruptcy involved.

      Why the court did not pass an order, giving the court the right to find out the value of his assets, and employ some forensic accountants to do so, is what I don't understand.

    216. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by sam0vi · · Score: 1

      The actual question is: if he gets money for his wrong imprisonment, will they make him split it with his ex-wife (ala "Life")?

      --
      When my Karma level reaches 0 I feel in piece with the Universe
    217. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Sircus · · Score: 1

      Think about this case: A and B are both working. Then they have a child. At that point, they decide that B will stay at home to look after that child. A goes to work, but is now working 60-hour weeks to bring in enough money to cover B not working. This turns out to work quite well and after a while, A is bringing in money - but still working long hours. The child is old enough for Kindergarten now and B doesn't really need to stay home any more. But doing so keeps the home running, the laundry washed, the place clean, the grocery shopping done and means there's someone there for the child when kindergarten is done. A works hard to bring money, but doesn't need to do anything at all around the house. B works hard to keep the domestic side going, but doesn't do any money-bringing work.

      After ten years of doing this, A and B divorce. B's chances in the job market are now much reduced from what they were. A is still raking in money.

      Is it really equitable that A has no responsibiliity to support B? At least for a time?

      --
      PenguiNet: the (shareware) Windows SSH client
    218. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Divorcing women can be vicious and spiteful in ways that men never even DREAM of.

      You should look at the stats for men who kill their ex-partners (or their children) for daring to leave them, then reconsider that statement.

      There's nothing quite as vicious as a man phoning his ex-partner so she can hear her children being killed by him.

      And, yes, this happens regularly in the UK (so I would expect the same in the US).

    219. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Just to be a jerk myself for a moment, what entitles her to any of the $2.5 million he earned as a lawyer and through his investments anyway?

      There's no way to know without getting boringly into the details of their divorce. Let's face it: some spouses are cruel idiots. It goes both ways. For all we know, she brought more money to the marriage than he did, and he spent it all, while hiding his own stuff overseas. It's not worth guessing. The point is that the judge in the case thought it was important to know about the assets in question, and the guy's being coy about it, to a fault.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    220. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to fight crime, fight the reasons to commit it. Unless you're willing to do that, punishment will be no deterrent. It will serve as an act of revenge, it will serve as a tool to ensure the same person will not commit it again, but you will not turn anyone who didn't commit it yet away from it.

      Don't be silly. Of course it is a deterrent. Think about it - let's just get rid of punishments for murder, say, and watch the murder rate go through the roof (same applies to theft to an even greater degree and everything else that is illegal). The fact is there are a lot of bad people out there who would commit these crimes if only there was no punishment.

    221. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "This is not a flaw of the system."

      14 years says it is a flaw to me. Telling a judge to stick his sentence in his ear is not the same as murder, and yet he got the same or worse.

      The system really hates it when you challenge its power. It believes to its core that it has the right to do whatever it wants to you, and that you have no right to resist.

      I know this much, after reading this, I'm even in more contempt than before.

    222. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by lagomorpha2 · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, I'm sure that he could have left any time he liked if he either paid up or filed for bankruptcy allowing his ex-wife's claim to be settled alongside his other debts.

      IANAL but IIRC alimony and child support are both part of a gro

    223. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by lagomorpha2 · · Score: 1

      sigh... the preview delay is terrible

      IANAL but IIRC alimony and child support are both part of a group of things that are immune to bankruptcy.

    224. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by hattig · · Score: 1

      I think we could adjust the brief, hastily sketched out ideas to accommodate these issues.

    225. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Courageous · · Score: 1

      The Constitution does not so much a attempt to apply scope or definitional power of this subject. I.e., it essentially has no say. There is nothing to "usurp". I.e., the Constitution simply does not work the way you think it works.

      C//

    226. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He did. Several forensic accountants have tried to find his assets, and all have come up empty. The [pig-headed] judge refused to accept that there was no money to pony up, so he kept him.

      So, it really is a flaw in the system.

    227. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, the guy should suffer forever because he made the mistake of getting married.

      Well, yes. That's what marriage is!

    228. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      There's no reason to regulate marriages -- which are a religious institution and personal committment -- in any way, whatsoever.

      The regulations were established to keep the 'white' bloodlines 'pure'.

      Same reasoning they used to get drug regulations on the books - they didn't want those drug-crazed 'negros' to defile 'our' white women.

      Subsequently, both regulation regimes have taken on lives of their own. Logically, they both would have been discontinued with the Civil Rights Act.

      Marriage licenses and drug prohibition are Jim Crow laws.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    229. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Is it really equitable that A has to keep working 60 hour weeks to support B in their lazy life of luxury?

      If I were A I would quit my job with immediate effect, demand custody of the child and refuse to pay B a penny. But I'm a bloke and fed up with the incredibly sexist "family" court decisions.

    230. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Or, perhaps, they could just execute a search warrent on any property the guy had and just look for the documents.

      I suspect that in the vast majority of criminal proceedings the defendent doesn't just hand the presecution a case. They only find evidence by looking for it. I'm not quite sure why defendents should be compelled to turn over any kind of evidence - other than the fact that the 5th ammendment as written only covers testimony.

    231. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Because of the constitutional right to a jury trial, I don't believe a judge can override an acquittal. They can override a guilty verdict under various circumstances. Basically, the judge can only take action in the defendents interest. The rights to trial by jury and the prohibition of double jeopardy essentially guarantee this.

    232. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      And if this daughter was a minor? Remember, there is a case that was tried against a church that did just this, and they lost.

      Since marriage has no legal meaning, it doesn't matter if a 3-year-old wants to marry a 75-year-old. Now, if they have sex, that is an entirely different issue.

      If the church of wacko down the street declares that I'm married to the guy down the street, who cares. Now, if they decide to walk into my house as if they belong there I'm calling the cop and they're going to be arrested for trespassing.

      The whole point is that marriage should have no legal recognition in any way. It confers no rights or restrictions in the eyes of the law.

      Except we'd fill the courts with claims to ownership or liens that would only have heresay as evidence. I'd rather not wait behind that docket. A state may explicitly declare how ownership works within marriage (CA's 50% law) or it may not, but it overwhelmingly simplifies things from the onset.

      And why doesn't that happen with cohabitation?

      Just sign a contract stating how you want your pssessions sorted out if you split up. That isn't a big deal.

      The state formalizes this contract and adds a few other things (hospital visitation, rights of survivorship, credit responsibilities) and they called it "Marriage".

      Except that the state decides who can and can't get married, and decides on all the terms of the agreement. You can't marry somebody under your own terms. For some bizarre reason we allow people tax benefits for having the legal status of marriage.

      Two people would be able to disagree on the fact if they were even married, ever.

      And since in the eyes of the law it doesn't matter if they were ever married, the state wouldn't even care whether they were or not. The only questions are simple factual ones like:

      1. Did the parties sign a contract containing binding terms?

      2. Did the parties have a child?

      Sorry, no "contract" no crime? Do you really want a society built around that much welfare?

      Yes - I do. I'm fine with child support since the child was not a party to the decision of their birth. However, if the parties want to be "married" they should put in writing exactly what that means.

      And romantically, who wants to have a giant meandering semantic discussion instead of following social custom?

      Perhaps they don't agree with the social customs? Do you think that two people should enter into marriage without actually discussing the consequences? Also, it isn't like the parties would need to draft their own contracts. Most likely every church or other interested organization will publish boilerplate agreements that parties could sign to enter into whatever it is that they consider marriage to be.

    233. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Only when they have child-bearing relationships (traditionally between married couples) regulated, can the government provide incentives and benefits to the people raising kids.

      That's nice - except that a huge percentage of kids have divorced parents. And, there certainly is no requirement to be married before having kids. If you want to regulate who can have kids you better put everybody on Norplant (and some male equivalent) at the age of 10.

    234. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Couldn't agree with you more. I have some pretty strong feelings about the importance of marriage, and its meaning. However, that is all the more reason to get government out of it. If some crazy people down the street want to do marriage their way, that's between them and God. Just don't tell my wife and I how things should be done.

      As always, reasonable laws for everybody's protection will still apply.

    235. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Where does the consitution give the legislature the right to allow the courts to imprison somebody without a jury trial?

      The fact that congress approved this procedure doesn't make it constitutional.

      I'm all for congress making contempt a crime. I'm all for prosecuting people for it, and jailing them for it - AFTER a jury delivers a guilty verdict.

    236. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by cekander · · Score: 1

      Pennsylvania. Say no more.

      Remember the recent scandal involving judges taking more than 2.6 million in payments from owner and builder of a juvenile detention center.

      And don't forget Pennsylvania's judge Sabo, who unofficially handed out more death sentences than any judge in US history! Of course it's unofficial because such dubious records aren't kept in record-books... which seems bogus to me, since if we're going to support the death-sentence, then we need to do it with transparency and conviction, damnit.

      Oh yeah, and how about the Move 9; nine black men who have spent nearly 30 years in prison for the same crime - allegedly killing a police officer who was shot with 1 bullet. Conveniently these men were all active members of a political family that openly complained about government corruption.

    237. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by bar-agent · · Score: 1

      so theoretically, an 80-year-old and 10-year-old could enter into a platonic marriage without breaking any laws. But, I highly doubt that any religion would sanction such a union

      What are you talking about? Marriages arranged at birth happen in several different religions. Well, actually, in several different societies, but those societies also have a typical religion.

      --
      i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
    238. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      I suppose the constitutionality can be debated. However, icebike's contention was that contempt of court was something made up, used, and found constitutional by judges and judges alone, and that no one else had a hand in it.

      That said, it has been found to be constitutional. I just can't find the exact case just yet (I spent about 30 minutes looking for it yesterday).

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    239. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Wowlapalooza · · Score: 1

      "Arranged at birth" doesn't mean "married from birth". The actual marriage happens much later.

    240. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by NonSequor · · Score: 1

      Reading a couple of things, I see you're right that the alimony debt wouldn't be handled with the rest of his debts.

      Still my understanding is that under bankruptcy, the bankruptcy court will use whatever assets he has to pay off his ex-wife first, with other debts being resolved after that.

      I'm guessing that if he didn't have enough to pay her, that they would take whatever he has and garnish his future earnings to cover the rest, but any other debts that stand in the way of the alimony payments being made could be eliminated.

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    241. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Sircus · · Score: 1

      A probably won't be able to keep working 60 hour weeks, since there's now significantly more housework that A needs to do...

      I'm not saying that A needs to support B totally or in perpetuity, but there's surely some sort of compensation needed from A to B to deal with the decision that they made together which negatively affected B's job prospects and positively developed A's.

      B definitely now needs to go to work. My argument is that if A doesn't supplement B's wage, then B has very much got the short end of this deal.

      There's no laziness involved here. I know a couple (still together) who fit the roles of A and B. In my opinion, B in that case works just as hard as A.

      Also note that I don't care which gender A and B are (can be the same gender for all I care). The fact that B is often female is neither here nor there.

      And the example has nothing to say about who gets custody of the child. That's a separate matter.

      --
      PenguiNet: the (shareware) Windows SSH client
    242. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by gabebear · · Score: 1

      I hope a thug holds you in contempt for 14 years...

    243. Re:Why didn't this happen sooner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MindKata rubbed his nipples slowly through his diaphanous robe. A small, rodent-like erection popped through a hole in the fabric.
       
      "Mmmmm..." he moaned, as a GOLDEN DROP OF PRECUM oozed STICKLY from his PIN-SIZED HOLE.
       
      Just then, morgan_greywolf appeared from the heavens. "Rape me like one of mcgrew's prostitute friends!" he shrieked.
       
      Diarrhea flooded the room, and all was well.

  5. Why is this slashdot worthy? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not like this is an RNO story. Chadwick wasn't imprisoned for taking a moral stand. Divorce isn't especially nerdy. What's the relevancy to my life that this story brings?

    I'm not trolling, either; I just want to know if there's some angle that I'm missing.

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    1. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Aladrin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He was imprisoned because the just -though- he was lying. No proof, just a judge's whim. You can't see how that affects you?

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Swizec · · Score: 1

      Don't piss off the judge when you're getting a divorce because you don't have boobs and will NOT be forgiven. It's valuable advice.

    3. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by BradleyAndersen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Agreed. I can tell you first-hand that walking into Family Court or anything remotely like it (say, Divorce Court) with a penis is grounds for immediate imprisonment.

    4. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by e9th · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The next time a judge orders you to turn over the passphrases for your SSH/PGP private keys and holds you in contempt until you do so, it will seem very /. worthy.

    5. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

      Slashdot is for nerds. Law is code. Peculiar behavior in code is a possible bug worth looking into. This is pretty peculiar behavior, and we code specialists should examine it to see if it indicates a bug.

      Lawyers have a better grasp on the practice of law, but we are pretty good at analyzing the mechanical aspects. The public should take an interest in ensuring that law does not serve only lawyers, and we geeks have a skill that lets us help with that oversight. It's a duty we should take seriously, IMO.

    6. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By that logic, any news is therefore applicable to this site, right.

    7. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's completely fitting. Think of all your geek friends that fell for the first piece of tail that came along and paid attention to them and they were so desperate that they just walked right into it and put everything on the line without thinking about it. See it happen all the time and you can never rationalize with these guys because they're just so thrilled to have a female who gives them attention. And they willingly put their entire income and success on the table for her to take on a whim.

      It'd be great if love won out and blah blah blah and bad stuff never happened, but it DOES happen all the time. And how can you say he didn't take a moral stand? What's not a moral stand about "it's my money". I mean, was his wife a prostitute or something? Is that why he owes her the money? Once you're divorced, you have to pay for all those years of sex?

    8. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

      By that logic, any news is therefore applicable to this site, right.

      Any news which also engages our civic duty, yes.

      Just to get you up to speed -- the United States has been in decline for about 25 years, with various tonics to alleviate the symptoms from time to time. Those tonics have let the disease fester, and now we are faced with a very difficult road ahead. We all, not just geeks, need to figure out how our skills can help bring the nation about or we will go down. Worse yet, we're so tied into the global economy that we'll probably start a new dark age if we go down hard enough.

      So, yeah, any news which indicates a potential civic bug does belong on Slashdot.

    9. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by LordKronos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but the only reason why I read this article was because I was curious what relevance it had to technology

      Slashdot isn't "Technology news for nerds"...just "News for nerds". And before you jump on that, "nerd" doesn't just mean computer programming or whatever. Nerds have a passion for a variety of topics, and one subject I find they are often passionate about is civil rights/constitutional violations/etc. So open up your nerd horizons. Don't feel the need to be stereotyped into sitting behind your computer with a pocket protector and tape on your glasses. If legal rights isn't your cup of tea, that's fine...we all have our individual interests, so just pass on the story without posting. I promise I'll do the same the next time there's a Firefly story or something.

    10. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      If a judge says you must turn over your SSH/PGP private keys, then you are legally obligated to do so.

      You are free to appeal, that's what appeals are for. You're free to fight it, again that's how the system is supposed to work, but if in the end you are ordered to turn over the keys, you are legally obligated to do so.

      If you believe that having to turn over those keys is something you cannot live with, you are free to take a stand and refuse to turn them over, that's your right as a human being and one of those rights that no one can take away. You can always refuse to comply or cooperate. Doing so would however be showing contempt for the order of the court, and would be illegal. The government can, would, and should jail you for doing so.

      Taking a moral stand is about doing what you believe is the right thing and paying the consequences, not about doing what you want and getting away with it. Too many people in our society forget that.

      There's nothing wrong with jailing people for contempt, in this case, or in your hypothetical. The issue in your hypothetical is the judge being able to order that, and it's perfectly justifiable for you to argue that this is not the case and change it, but you're fighting the order, not your punishment for contempt. Personally I think that being forced to turn over your passkeys is probably a violation of your 5th amendment right not to incriminate yourself, and I take issue with any order from a judge forcing anyone to do so, even if that person is obviously guilty of some terrible crime and the only evidence is in those files. I do not however have any problem at all with people being tossed in jail for however long for failing to comply with a court order. If we didn't allow that we'd have far less justice than we have now.

    11. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by flajann · · Score: 2, Informative

      ... I do not however have any problem at all with people being tossed in jail for however long for failing to comply with a court order. If we didn't allow that we'd have far less justice than we have now.

      What if the order was confiscatory, as is apparently the problem in this particular case? If you don't have 2.5 million dollars to give to your ex, you are unable to comply, period. There should be at least some evidence that YOU DO have the money, not just some idle speculation.

      This sort of thing scares the hell out of me, because I am in a divorce situation, and to think I could be thrown in jail for noncompliance with a confiscatory order for an indefinite amount of time!

      I would rather have a non-functional "justice" system rather than one that does injustice to innocent individuals!

      Wow, 14 years. If I were locked away for just a few months, I'd loose everything. I'd have nothing left. And as one who have been falsely accused more times than I care to think about, this deeply scares me.

      But it would appear that many doesn't care that the (in)justice system does harm to innocent people. Oh, I know -- it "did something". Well, if that's what it's all about, time for me to check out of this country! I don't think even China would be that bad!

    12. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      I don't think any of us knows enough about the case to say whether he did or didn't actually have that money. Hiding money from your wife is sort of an international rich man hobby, and there was likely fairly good evidence during the divorce itself that the guy had the assets, and he quite obviously failed to adequately prove he didn't have them.

      Confiscatory orders are pretty much exactly why we need contempt of court jail terms, because without them, you may as well not bother with them. Why on earth would you pay if they can't force you to do so? That's why this sort of thing is important for justice, not because it "does something" but because without it there would really be no way to enforce any order that can't be physically enforced.

      If this guy really didn't have the money, then I feel bad for the guy, but generally speaking you don't usually go from having 5 million dollars to having nothing without a fair amount of documentation proving that this happened. The 2.5 million dollars didn't just get plucked out of the air, at some point prior to the order he had that money(most likely at least twice that much), he failed to prove over the course of 14 years that this was no longer the case.

      The moral of the story is pay your damned child support/alimony no matter how much it sucks, and if you can't, be prepared to prove why you can't.

      As for the whole "China" BS, every government in the world will do exactly the same thing because if you don't punish people for not doing what the court ordered them to then you may as well not have a court or for that matter a government.

    13. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to be quibbling. I'm only obligated to do so, if it is a lawful order, and the court has jurisdiction over me. The fact that it comes from a judge does not make it lawful--following the laws of our nation makes it such.

      It's quite well established that most courts are...not in fact, following the laws of our nations--they barely follow the defined processes.

      In my case, any request for private keys would violate the 5th. In fact, it was even established in Hibel v. Nevada that stop and identify statutes are pretty much only lawful until the first time a cop asks a wanted criminal to identify themself--at which point the 5th amendment protections would apply as their identify *would* be incriminating, and this would place them in a position of either lying or incriminating themselves.

      Don't get me wrong--you'd be thrown in jail at gunpoint--but that doesn't make it lawful, or mean you should obey.

      Go back to your shepherd coward--this country needs better men than you.

    14. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Exception+Duck · · Score: 1

      Always someone asks this question for every article.

      Should be noted that this is filed under IDLE - which seem to be all sorts of stuff, if you don't like it, filter it out.
      If you don't like KDawson posting - filter it out. (I don't understand what the big deal is with that btw. Can't see any big difference between his articles and other - interpret that as you wish :)

    15. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      I never said it was a correct decision, or that you had to obey.

      I said that if you choose not to obey you have to face the consequences of not doing so. If you refuse to turn over your keys and go to jail for doing so, I salute you.

      Doing the right thing is hard, it's hard because a lot of times you pay for it. That's what makes doing it worthwhile, and far too many people in this world think that there are no consequences to their actions.

      You are free to take any moral stand you want to, as am I. I try to do so, and I encourage you to do so. I however humbly suggest that when you do so you should expect to pay the price and not come crying afterward about the fact that life isn't fair. The most fundamental and irrevocable human right is the right to refuse. They cannot take it away from you, even by killing you, but it doesn't come free and it doesn't come easy.

      Penalties like this are necessary to enforce lawful orders, and if you believe that an order against you is unlawful you should expect to suffer those penalties for your refusal to follow it.

    16. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by e9th · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Let's make it not so hypothetical. Some years ago, a friend came by and gave me some .doc & .xls files to hang on to. He told me he was suspicious that there was massive fraud going on at his employer, and that if he died under strange circumstances, I should go to the police. Meanwhile, he would continue to look for absolute proof. I copied them, then used gpg to encrypt them. His wife was aware that I had copies.

      Not too long after that, he was diagnosed with cancer and died a few months later. I didn't have the heart to ask him, "Hey, since you're dying of natural causes, is it okay if I delete those files?" Anyway, this was over 5 years ago, and I haven't though about them until I saw this article. I have no idea what passphrase I used when encrypting the files.

      The above is all true. Now I'll be hypothetical. Suppose his former company really did come under suspicion of fraud, and his widow told investigators that I had copies of his files. A SWAT team breaks in, confiscates all my computers & backups, because they may contain "important evidence."

      Now here is me in court.

      Judge: Sir, we can't read those documents that Mr. X gave you. Please give us the keys.
      Me:Your Honor, I'd love to, but I just can't remember them.
      Judge: I don't believe you. Bailiff, take him away.

      There's no 5th amendment issue, since the files can't incriminate me. In essence, I would have to prove that I had forgotten the keys, or sit in jail waiting for the judge to have a change of heart.

    17. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by ekimminau · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >He was imprisoned because the just -though- he was lying. No proof, just a judge's whim. You can't see how that affects you?
      I wouldn't call it a "judges whim". A judge, in a court of law, ordered a plaintiff to comply with an order, i.e.

      "Show me the money or show me the proof you lost the money"

      An answer of "No" isn't either A or B. You are in contempt of a direct order from a judge of the court. He could have either produced the proof, even if it was a letter from a business partner saying "We lost all of our money in an investment" and "heres the business bank account showing a 0$ balanace". Done. End of contempt.

      If a judge issues an order, in this case, an order that is absolutly in line with the judgement against the plaintiff, that is, you have to pay, and you do not comply, you are in contempt of court.

      The definition of "contempt of court":
      Behavior in or out of court that violates a court order, or otherwise disrupts or shows disregard for the court. Refusing to answer a proper question, to file court papers on time or to follow local court rules can expose witnesses, lawyers and litigants to contempt findings. Contempt of court is punishable by fine or imprisonment.

      In this case, he won't show the money, so a fine is inappropriate. The alternative was improsonment. This makes absolutely perfect legal sense. The fact that the guy chose to stay in jail for 14 years rather than produce the evidence tells me he is a complete and utter imbecile and deserved the time out of the gene pool.

      My .02.

      --
      Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
    18. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      Right, because an empty bank account is 'proof'. There's a billion ways to make all your bank accounts empty and still have money.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    19. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Krneki · · Score: 1

      Meh, you could just say you forgot it.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    20. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by McFly777 · · Score: 1

      If a judge says you must turn over your SSH/PGP private keys, then you are legally obligated to do so.

      Have you ever forgotten a password, particularly a long complicated one? . . . I didn't think so.

      --

      McFly777
      - - -
      "What do people mean when they say the computer went down on them?" -Marilyn Pittman
    21. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by ekimminau · · Score: 1

      Look, he needed to provide that he lost all of his money due to bad investments. Anyone with the amount of money in question probably had an accountant, had to have a set of books and should have easily been able to produce them.

      --
      Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
    22. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe you should delete those files and all backups of them before the company sends hypothetical hitmen to murder you? I'd think sitting in jail would be one of the lighter hypothetical penalties you can come up with.

    23. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by glwtta · · Score: 1

      It's not on slashdot, it's on idle.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    24. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by zen-theorist · · Score: 1

      In your hypothetical case, this would not count as evidence then, and the prosecution will have to find other forms of evidence. It is the prosecutions job to find the evidence, not the judges. I wonder why the guy did not say he liquidated the 5mil into, say, cash. And subsequently had the money stolen from him. He might have to show proof of a bank transaction of the liquidation, which he could have done. But IMO he does not have to prove that the money was stolen from him. Any legal opinions?

    25. Re:Why is this slashdot worthy? by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1

      Firefly was awesome :D

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
  6. could have been avoided by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He should have just told the judge that he spent all the money on hookers and blow.

    A judge would understand that.

  7. the guys name by BigHungryJoe · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Was "H Beatty Chadwick" - that's a wealthy, old money name if I've ever heard one. He's got the money.

    1. Re:the guys name by haruchai · · Score: 1

      Guess you'd make a good judge, with that reasoning

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    2. Re:the guys name by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      You sir, are in contempt.

      Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect 200 dollars.

      Stay there for 14 years.

    3. Re:the guys name by dasunt · · Score: 1

      The guy's name was "H Beatty Chadwick" - that's a wealthy, old money name if I've ever heard one. He's got the money.

      Some days, the concept of trial by a jury of my peers scares me.

      Perhaps we should have trial by Magic 8 Ball instead. The Magic 8 Ball will not use my name to judge if I'm guilty or innocent.

    4. Re:the guys name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suggest you do the math : 2.5 million dollars over 14 years makes less than $200,000.- *a year*.

      Assuming he made his multi-millions by being a shrewd business-man that ammount of money is sort of pocket-change.

      Do you *really* think 14 years of not being allowed to move freely and just pocket-change per year would be worth that ?

      Somehow it does not add up (no pun intended).

    5. Re:the guys name by BigHungryJoe · · Score: 1

      I was trying to be funny.

    6. Re:the guys name by TerranFury · · Score: 1

      Was "H Beatty Chadwick" - that's a wealthy, old money name if I've ever heard one. He's got the money.

      Similarly, "Shaqeel Lawrence Johnson" obviously mugged the old lady, and "David Emmanuel Goldsteen" weaseled that other guy out of his money. The names say it all, right?

    7. Re:the guys name by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Good thing the guy's name wasn't "Jack D. Ripper"...

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  8. What a waste of taxpayers money. by hattig · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I fail to see where the benefit is in keeping an old man in jail for so long, at taxpayers expense, is.

    14 years? I've seen figures of $30,000 PA to keep a prisoner captive. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_cost_of_one_prisoner_in_the_U.S.

    So we're talking $420,000 so far spent on this man. Instead he could have had assets seized and been forced into work, and paying tax, and having some money garnished. Or his actual money would have shown up after a few years when he thought people weren't looking.

    It's not as if he was a danger to people on the street - the number one reason to put someone into jail.

    1. Re:What a waste of taxpayers money. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Or his actual money would have shown up after a few years when he thought people weren't looking.

      I'm sure that they money will show up again, about 30 seconds after he sets foot in Europe where the ex-wife can't touch it.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    2. Re:What a waste of taxpayers money. by netruner · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point - this is just attorneys' arrogance at work (on the public dime, no less). The Bard had it right - they lawyers need to go.

      This reminds me of a joke I heard from a court clerk:
      Q: Do you know what they call an attorney with an IQ under 80?
      A: Your Honor

      --



      DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
    3. Re:What a waste of taxpayers money. by tsstahl · · Score: 1

      had assets seized and been forced into work

      I know the constitution has been a bit of a sieve in recent years. However, there is still an amendment banning forced labor, a.k.a. slavery.

      Really, it's true: link

    4. Re:What a waste of taxpayers money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      he could have had assets seized and been forced into work

      Apparently, he shipped his money over seas just to avoid this issue: http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Should-He-Stay-or-Should-He-Go-Chadwick.html

      Another blog I found claimed that he refused to sign papers that would have allowed the courts to conduct a proper search (which were probably needed since the money was over seas). I'm not linking to it, because it's just a blog.

      All signs point to this guy just refused to pay. And it seems like neither you nor the judges involved had any good ideas to deal with him.

    5. Re:What a waste of taxpayers money. by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      "It's not as if he was a danger to people on the street"

      The clients of Mr. Madoff may disagree.

      In all seriousness though, it is a bit silly.

    6. Re:What a waste of taxpayers money. by -noefordeg- · · Score: 1

      30.000 USD ?
      That seems rather low.
      For Norway I've seen figures ranging from 160 USD to 300 USD a day per prisoner or 58,400 to 109,500 USD per year... =/

    7. Re:What a waste of taxpayers money. by hattig · · Score: 1

      I meant forced as in "if he wanted more than a double wide and 20" TV", not as in "do this or else".

      Someone who has made millions and lived the lifestyle will have tried to make them again.

      He could have had his passports confiscated and have been required to report to a police station every week instead.

    8. Re:What a waste of taxpayers money. by tsstahl · · Score: 1

      Oh.

      And probation is not very coercive...

      I heartily agree that some other creative coercion or investigation should have been done some time long before the 14 year mark.

    9. Re:What a waste of taxpayers money. by hattig · · Score: 1

      Does seem from other comments (although their veracity is in the air) that this guy could have been the Numero Uno Miser ever.

      But, 14 years. You know, I might have held out for a year or two if I was that miserly and spiteful and if I stood to gain $2.5m (especially if I had little more than that in total) ... but we're talking about 14 years that he could have said "screw this, $2.5m for me to get out of here is surely better than this!" at any time.

      Somewhere, at around the fifth year, some alarm bells should have been ringing. There's no way it should have got to 14. I also have deep worries about sending people to jail for so long without a trial by jury, especially for contempt in a civil case.

      Maybe he's too much of a miser to sue!

      Or the miser stuff is made up because he was in jail, and his ex-wife wasn't and got to create the history.

    10. Re:What a waste of taxpayers money. by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      Minus about $10,000 or so provided to the appropriate parties to ensure the judge is made an example of.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    11. Re:What a waste of taxpayers money. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      $10,000 to take out a judge? I'd imagine not. That is an enormous risk. Murder for hire is punishable by death in Pennsylvania. The murder of a judge in such a high profile case is going to get a lot of attention, not just some overwealmed local police department but Pennsylvania State police and FBI. You'll have to multiply that number by 20-30x before anyone will take that sort of thing on.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  9. What a surprise, a misleading summary by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lawyer Jailed for Contempt Freed After 14 Years

    The fact that he was a lawyer has little relation the story - he could've just as easily been a baker, a banker, a doctor...

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:What a surprise, a misleading summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      he could've just as easily been a baker, a banker, a doctor...

      probably not a banker, [s]he'd have got a bailout by now...

    2. Re:What a surprise, a misleading summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      They should also change 'ex-wife' to 'money grabbing bitch'

    3. Re:What a surprise, a misleading summary by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      probably not a banker, [s]he'd have got a bailout by now...

      I get your current-events joke. Setting that aside, I don't think you can get bailed out of jail for a contempt charge.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    4. Re:What a surprise, a misleading summary by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      The fact that he was a lawyer has little relation the story - he could've just as easily been a baker, a banker, a doctor...

      Actually the fact that he is a lawyer is probably the most important part of this.

      You see, the judge is a lawyer too, and he knows that the lawyer in front of him is full of shit and trying to get away with stuff. The only proof required is that he's a lawyer.

      Needless to say, throwing all lawyers in jail would be against the interests of the profession in general, so the *real* reason that he's in jail is that the judge is pissed at him for a prank he played on him at the Country Club.

      You don't fuck with a man's 6-iron. Especially when he is a judge. You heard it here first.

    5. Re:What a surprise, a misleading summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about setting bail at $2.5 million...

    6. Re:What a surprise, a misleading summary by MrCrassic · · Score: 1

      It has everything to do with the story, since he could have easily seen this coming all along...

      One of the guards described him as "enigmatic," so it could be possible that he didn't mind spending 14 years in prison. I guess when you're that old and life holds little benefit, there's really nothing to lose.

    7. Re:What a surprise, a misleading summary by daveywest · · Score: 1

      The fact that he was a lawyer has little relation the story ...

      As the child of a lawyer, I can attest it most certainly does. Lawyers are expected by judges to know the law and follow it expressly. My dad would rewrite permission slips for school field trips because some office aid had put some stupid release of liability clause in there. (Eventually we just learned to take those things to Mom.)

    8. Re:What a surprise, a misleading summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this misleading if he is a lawyer? You might argue it is not relavent.

  10. And what about the judge? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What does it say about the judge that he/she (I'm guessing he) would leave the guy imprisoned for 14 years for contempt? Are we looking at some near-cosmic game of chicken? Is this just a face-off between two enormous egos? Is there nothing in law that prohibits truly insane sanctions such as this? Or that limits the power of a judge to apply them - apprently without any sort of review or oversight? Did the judge just forget the guy? Didn't anybody ever remind him about the guy rotting in jail simply because he didn't do what the judge said to do? I'd really like to hear the judge's rationalization of why this happened.

  11. It's only fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If his ex-wife wants half of everything she should get to serve half the time in prison.

  12. Prove he has the money? by characterZer0 · · Score: 1

    How hard is it to prove he has the money?

    --
    Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    1. Re:Prove he has the money? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      How hard is it to prove he has the money?

      Impossible. The theory isn't that he actually has the money. The theory is that he is in consort with someone who was "managing his investment" and that they are holding his money until after the divorce.

      No one believes that he actually has the money, only that he has access to it if he really wants it.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    2. Re:Prove he has the money? by doc_u · · Score: 1

      From the blog on this at:
      http://freebeattychadwick.blogspot.com/

      A. Leo Sereni, a former president judge in Pennsylvania, was appointed to track Chadwick's money. Eighteen months and two accounting firms later, Sereni reported no trace beyond what had been discovered a decade before. Money had been transferred to Europe and a small fraction had reappeared in U.S. accounts. Sereni concluded, 'most of it...nowhere.'
      "He recommended Chadwick's release, stating, 'My God -- if he had stolen $2 million, he would have been out a couple of years ago.'"

      So, it appears that the courts have made some efforts to trace the money, and have been unable to locate it.

      -Doc

  13. Wow, life fail by squoozer · · Score: 1

    This has got to be one of the scariest stories that I've ever read. No trial and not even evidence was necessary to put this guy in jail for 14 years. If that doesn't make you question the legal system nothing will. I think there is need for contempt of court punishments but they seriously need to be looked at in light of this case. For example, anything over two weeks should need the agreement of three judges and there should be a cap of a year. I would argue that in cases like this there should be a jury trial with evidence from both sides, the only trouble with that is it's virtually asking the guy to prove a negative (e.g. he doesn't have the money) but it's better than allowing one guys will to send him away for essentially ever. If there was a trial at least the guy would have some idea the maximum penelty and be able to formally present some evidence of how he lost the money - because surely there would have to be some sort of paper trail or other evidence of $2.5 being spent.

    --
    I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    1. Re:Wow, life fail by Eskarel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sometimes shit like this is necessary. I can't say whether it was in this case, because I don't know the details, but sometimes it is necessary. Personally, from what I've seen in the vast majority of cases where some millionaire divorces his wife and then claims poor, he sure as hell does still have the money and knows damned sure where it is.

      There can't be a cap on contempt of court, because if there was, there wouldn't be any court. If I can get sued, lose, and basically say "fuck you, I'm not turning over that money" and just wait three weeks in jail, then what's the motivation for ever paying that money. You'd just wait three weeks and walk away free and clear without having to pay a cent. That's what contempt of court means,

      This isn't an issue of trial or no trial, there was a court case, the divorce was a court case, he had ample opportunity within that case to prove he didn't have 5 million dollars(presuming a 50/50 split), he obviously failed to do so. Then the court case was decided, all nice and legal like, and he seemingly cried poor and said he couldn't pay. He again couldn't prove that, so they tossed his ass in jail. Contempt isn't something magical with no trial, and it's not generally the stuff you see on tv where someone just acts a bit like an ass in a court. This is failure to comply with a court order contempt, which is breaking the law. There doesn't need to be a trial on the contempt charge because quite obviously he is in contempt, he's been ordered by a court to do something, and he hasn't done it. It's a bit like being found guilty of murder and then saying, well I don't feel like going to prison. Only difference is they can drag your ass down to jail whereas they can't get back the money you hid offshore, so they do what they can to try and make you do what you should.

      Realistically the only reason this old geezer got freed was because he was 74 and the judge reckoned if he'd put up with 14 years he'd put up with another 20 and they got sick of feeding him, not because he was innocent or anything, he's still presumably failing to comply with a legal court order and is so still guilty of contempt of court(since he won this great game of chicken, he presumably has even more contempt for the court.

      FFS people, I know slashdot is largely male and largely single and full of contempt and bitterness for women and marriage, but whether or not you feel that a wife getting a portion of the families assets is right or wrong, if you let people refuse to follow the orders of the court you may as well scrap the whole system.

    2. Re:Wow, life fail by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      This shouldn't be a hard matter. The wife can get a civil judgement based upon a preponderance of the evidence (it is more likely that he has $2.5M than not).

      Then she can seek to enforce it, and ask him to tesify about the location of the money.

      He can say that it doesn't exist or refuse to testify. So, then he can be charged with interference with collection of a lawful debt or perjury or whatever the crime is.

      Then a jury needs to decide if there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt that he lied. He does not need to prove a negative - the state needs to prove that he lied, or witheld information about money that actually exists.

      I'm all for punishing what is currently called contempt, but it needs to be a criminal charge and handled like any other criminal charge. If a reporter refuses to divulge his sources we can make that a crime, and punish him accordingly. However, it is wrong to turn that into a life sentence.

    3. Re:Wow, life fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes well if you allow unjust punishments that far exceed the crime you might as well scrap the whole thing too. The guy spend 14 fucking years in jail for not turning over money they cannot even prove he has.

    4. Re:Wow, life fail by hattig · · Score: 1

      He must have really hated his wife for 14 years in jail to have been a better alternative that even holding over every penny he had, never mind what was presumably a 50/50 split, or more generous in his favour given it was 14 years ago.

      But not enough to hire a hitman or run her over or something?

      You see, something doesn't add up. He was around 60 when jailed. Now he's 74. That's 14 years out of a theoretical 20 years he had left to live at the time. It's illogical. If it was pure spite, then that's amazing.

    5. Re:Wow, life fail by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Bullshit, this guy is an American hero. If there are children, then the caregiver should get a reasonable amount of support from the spouse. If there are no children involved the spouse shouldn't get shit other than what she brought into the marriage and some portion of joint assets reasonably claimed as having been earned by by parties.

      After spending 14 years in prison I would burn that money on video and send her the video before letting her have a penny of it.

    6. Re:Wow, life fail by squoozer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is you are saying he has to prove that he doesn't have the money. That's totally back to front. The other party should have to prove he does have the money. Making him prove he doesn't have something opens the system to abuse by his wife who presumably hates the guy because she left him to rot in a cell for 14 years (I'm assuming that if she waved the money the judge would probably have let the guy go).

      Note that I'm not saying the other party has to know exactly where the money is just build a sufficiently good case that the money is still in some way under this guys control in one form or another.

      --
      I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    7. Re:Wow, life fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He does not have to prove that he does not have the money, he has to provide ANY SORT of documentation in relation to his "overseas investments" to back up his story (it appears that his overseas investments were actually offshore banks, although he claims otherwise) and he flat out refused to provide the court with ANY documentation, which is illegal, unethical and plain dumb.

      I mean if you bought a 2.4 USD million property anywhere in the world you would get some documentation ?

    8. Re:Wow, life fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haven't followed this closely, but from the sounds of things there was proof he had a lot of money. He just transferred it overseas and claimed he lost in bad investments, and then refused to provide any documentation or allow for any checking in to it. It's not like she's saying "He's got 20 billion worth of Spanish Doubloons buried in the back yard, and I want half." It's more like, "here's the account that had $Xmillion in it, and it got sent to that overseas account I don't have access to, I want my share."

      If they did trace it as far as they can without his cooperation (US law not applicable to foreign banks; this is a good thing) this is about they can do. He's a US citizen in the US, so the law can apply the pressure where the lever is. Namely, a court order to give an accounting of the funds.

    9. Re:Wow, life fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently the other party was able to provide evidence that he had the money, or there wouldn't have been a court order for him to turn it over.

    10. Re:Wow, life fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you let people refuse to follow the orders of the court you may as well scrap the whole system.

      You realize we are talking about divorce court, right? Can we burn it down and start over right now? No regrets.

    11. Re:Wow, life fail by Wowlapalooza · · Score: 1

      I still maintain that proper Due Process should be observed when incarcerating someone indefinitely, it doesn't matter what you call the procedure or the offense -- it's a significant, open-ended loss of liberty (not to mention wealth, if you are deprived of the means of making a living), and deserves the proper protections and safeguards that have been developed based on Constitutional Law.

      I also think that punishments involving long periods of incarceration should automatically raise the state's burden of proof to "beyond reasonable doubt", regardless of what class of crime is being charged, or even if the charge has the "crime" label on it at all.

      Now, if you go through all of that, cross all of the t's, dot all of the i's, and the defendant is found to be wilfully disobeying a valid court order, as may be the case here (based on some of the comments I'm reading), then sure, let him rot in jail. And I don't even have a problem with the jail term being open-ended, since -- as they say -- the defendant "carries the key to the jail cell in his own pocket", i.e. he can end his "sentence" at any time by complying with the court order. If, at any time, however, it becomes literally impossible to comply with the court order, e.g. the person to whom one owes money dies without any heirs (IANAL, is the debt erased in this case?), then I would say the contempt status evaporates and the defendant should be released.

    12. Re:Wow, life fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >.... if you let people refuse to follow the orders of the court you may as well scrap the whole system.

      I am in 100% agreement. he should have handled the matter outside of court for *far* less.

    13. Re:Wow, life fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      STD = Sexually Transmitted Disease
      FTD -= Financially Transmitted Disease
      WIFE Washing, Ironing , Fking, Etc.

    14. Re:Wow, life fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not that I disagree with some of your points, but, in the case of extended sentences, wouldn't it make more sense to change contempt to become a trial by jury, like a perjury charge? I don't think a person should be capable of being jailed for 14 years solely on a judge's word and zero evidence.

    15. Re:Wow, life fail by sean.peters · · Score: 1

      The other party should have to prove he does have the money.

      The other party, did, in fact, present considerable evidence that he was still in control of this money. He refused to show any evidence at all that he didn't. He was therefore ordered to pay, and refused.

    16. Re:Wow, life fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I can get sued, lose, and basically say "fuck you, I'm not turning over that money" and just wait three weeks in jail, then what's the motivation for ever paying that money.

      Well, that just shows that the limit should be higher than three weeks.

      What if it was a year? Two years? Five years? Would you still say "fuck you, I'm not turning over that money" and just wait five years in jail?

      I haven't mind up my mind on the whole story, but I'm also a bit troubled by your assertion that this was valid because he "couldn't prove that [he didn't have the money]". Being jailed for contempt after refusing to pay is one thing, but shouldn't the burden of proof that he COULD pay in the first place be on those demanding payment?

      Of course, he should be required to cooperate and provide the necessary paperwork for the court to assess his finances. And if he refused to do THAT, then that's certainly a reason to hold him in contempt, too, although things do get hairy when he claims he can't produce those papers but you're pretty sure he's just lying.

      But "he couldn't prove he was innocent" is not enough of a reason to hold him in contempt.

    17. Re:Wow, life fail by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      As has been said many times. Divorce settlements aren't pulled out of thin air. His ex-wife would have had to prove that he had enough money that 2.5 million was her fair share of it at least at some point close to the time of the divorce. She would likely have had bank statements and all of that sort of thing proving the money existed. If she hadn't, then their wouldn't have been an order to refuse.

      After having proved definitively that he "had" the money, it is then his burden of proof to show he doesn't anymore, we're talking about probably at least 5 million dollars, that doesn't just disappear into thin air. He failed to prove it(most likely because in all reality he did still have it), and so was in contempt. However much Slashdot seems to hate divorce and alimony in particular(not that I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some changes to that), the judge didn't just magically say "give her 2.5 million dollars".

    18. Re:Wow, life fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes the audience here sees "Marriage 2.0" for the fraud that it is. What is Marriage 2.0? It is a result of the nonstop tweaking of the Family Laws thanks to divorce-industry lobbying during the 70's annd 80's. Here are the eleven strikes against Marriage 2.0:

      1. No-Fault Divorce (i.e. unilateral divorce, with no recourse for other spouse)

      2. No-Fault Alimony (i..e she cheats, he pays; the party breaking/violating the contract gets paid)

      3. Women Catching on to Unfair Divorce Laws: 66-75% of all divorces are now filed by the wife (CDC data; Google it) â" cha ching!

      4. Presumed mother-custody in most stateâ(TM)s family courts (goodbye Daddy, hello ATM)

      5. Presumed guilty until proven innocent DV laws (now widely used as the âoeopening chess moveâ of divorce â" once the husband is removed from the primary residence he never comes back, and she gets the primary residence in the asset split; you have 27 minutes to leave the house after the initial phone call. Also known as the Federal VAWA Legislation).

      6. Decriminalization of Adultery (you can run a brothel and still get primary custody of the kids, plus alimony!)

      7. Lobbying by the National Organization for Women against Shared Parenting bills in many states. (NOW is no longer about equality, itâ(TM)s now about a zero sum game for resources. Children are cash-cows, and NOW will be damned if they allow Shared Parenting to stop the cash-flow.

      8. Lifetime Alimony (One NJ Appellate Court recently upheld a lifetime alimony sentenced rendered for barely an 8-year marriage. Their argument was that now in these days of short-term marriages being the norm, 8 years was pretty long, and as such probably deserved to be treated as a long-term marriage. Brilliant!)

      9. Fathers Decreed as Optional Parents (States are enforcing payment-obligations by non-custodial parents with an iron fist, however they are completely ignoring the visitation-rights of NCP parents. If you are going to police one parents obligation to pay, why not police the other parents obligation to allow the Dad to see his kids?)

      10. One Sided Alimony: Ok so ex-spouse B got used to a certain standard of living, so we will make ex-spouse A pay alimony. Fine. But how about the things ex-spouse A got used to? Shouldnâ(TM)t we have some sort of reverse payment by ex-spouse B in the form of weekly cleaning, a hot meal 7 nights a week, and âoeromantic companionshipâ services? How come one spouse is on the hook to provide something that the other was used to during the marriage, and not vice versa?

      11. Paternity Fraud (If you missed the 2 year window to catch that your kids arenâ(TM)t really your kids, you are SOL in most states. Whatâ(TM)s worse if your cheating wife divorces you, and you can bring the DNA tests to court, and you will still be forced to pay 18-23 years of child support for these kids who are some other guyâ(TM)s spawn). In most fraud crimes, once the crime is proven, the guitly party gets punished. However in the topsy-turvey world of Family Courts, it is the innocent party that gets punished.

  14. Profit - Free food/housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can "prepay" with a huge retainer your lawyers. Good way to 'hide' money.

    Let's see -- 14 years in prison, x 3 meals a day, plus housing. $2.5 million in renewing CD's x 14 years = PROFIT.

    And at 73 years old, He can now file for SSI and collect max benefits.

    Hmm also at 73 the memory's not so good and I don't remember where the bank is... or I hope the bank hasn't turned the money over to the State of PA after 14 years as 'unclaimed accounts'.

    1. Re:Profit - Free food/housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two words: Traveler's checks.

      I worked with a guy who hid his money exactly that way during a divorce. They're tagged in your name, but they don't show up against your SSAN. You just need a secure lock box somewhere, and you don't collect interest. Afterward, you just spend them or redeposit them over a period of time.

      Other methods are available

  15. They're fundamentally different things. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not after 14 years.

  16. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  17. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by greenreaper · · Score: 1

    Just goes to show: you can lead a man to the door, but you can't make him use your keys and walk through it.

  18. Abuse of power by kheldan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This judge should be removed from the bench, and perhaps prosecuted for doing this to this man. 14 years! WTF?

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  19. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Still I think 14 years in prison without a trial is a scary thing in any legal system.

  20. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Lord+Kano · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, he was a real asshole. The problem I have with this is that the legal system is supposed to be about what you can prove, not what you "know". You, the judge and I all know that this asshole isn't really broke. But if the judge and his ex-wife's lawyers can't prove that he has the money, then it's not right to hold him in a cell for so long.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  21. I hate Idle by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

    But I like the new index. I managed to banish idle stories from the classic index, how do I banish them from the new index? I don't care how newsworthy some random editor thinks they are. I do not want to ever see them.

  22. Let me fix that for you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    You heard it here first: The US is a tool of terrorism

  23. More reason to never get married! by orsty3001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll just keep reading sits like www.nomarraige.com and girllookslikeabitch.com. No seriously, before someone jumps down my throat for saying that. I think if I was this guy, I would have worked out some kind of deal with my ex-wife before I spent what could be the majority of my golden years in jail. I never understood why people want so much stuff from their ex, most of the time requiring that they have to stay in contact with them. I would understand if children were involved, but I've never wanted to see her again after it's over. Too much else to do in life.

  24. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Roogna · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually it was a complete waste to ever stick him in prison. As others have said, let him loose, tax the hell out of him, garnish his wages, and make him pay what he owed. But sitting in prison has simply cost the tax payers money, prevented him from paying his owed debt by working, and potentially collecting the money he "hid". The judge was a fool in this case and accomplished nothing.

    In fact this is a good example of why it's stupid to ever stick someone in prison because they owe money to someone else. It's far better to keep them out of prison, make sure they're working, and then collect the money owed. In fact, what are the odds that instead, they could have let him go, watched his bank transactions for a bit, then frozen his accounts and paid his debts? If he really did still have access to the money.

  25. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by BOFslime · · Score: 1

    Maybe, or MAYBE he really didn't have the money, so he couldn't really afford the toilet paper!
    Its expensive to keep that baller image.

  26. Like the songs says... by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    That's what ya get folks

    For Makin Whoopee

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  27. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by mdarksbane · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Which means that he should have been tried in a court of law with a jury, and the prosecution should have had to prove that he did have he money.

    Just because we think someone is an asshole should not mean we get to imprison them.

  28. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

    and we all know the TV doesn't lie, especially when their biggest source was most likely the ex-wife. Then again, maybe she was doing landscaping and having her toilet paper rationed because he lost all of his money in a bad investment.

    --
    -PainKilleR-[CE]
  29. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by avandesande · · Score: 1

    Is it a crime to be an ass?
    Divorce awards are the problem, not tightwads.

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  30. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can you link to evidence of these claims?

  31. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pro-tip: prenuptial agreements are for suckers.

  32. Truly Insane... by flajann · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is truly insane. There should be limits on how long a judge can lock you away "for contempt." Also, there should be some evidence that you have the ability to comply with the court order. What we now have is a system so broken that any judge, if he so wishes, can hit you with a confiscatory order and lock you away for years for "noncompliance".

    This is NOT the type of country I want to live in. I would rather live in the old Soviet Union!

    1. Re:Truly Insane... by ekimminau · · Score: 1

      Do you need someone to show you the way to the airport or do you have directions? I, for one, would like anyone who doesn't understand that contempt of a judge will land you in jail, and thinks that makes this a bad place to live, should leave. Good bye. Sayonara. Arrive derci. Chow. Hasta La Vista. Good riddance. The day contempt of court is allowable is the day the court will no longer function.

      --
      Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
    2. Re:Truly Insane... by syzler · · Score: 1

      ...hit you with a confiscatory order and lock you away for years for "noncompliance".

      This is NOT the type of country I want to live in. I would rather live in the old Soviet Union!

      At least we get prisons and not bullets to the head. Would you really rather a contempt of court order be punishable by death?

      Not that I agree that this man should have spent any time in prison, but your statement about wanting to live in old Soviet Union is on par with cutting off your foot because you cannot abide having a splinter.

  33. Debt to Society? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

    Will he be re-imbursed for his time? Imagine how much you could have made in 14 years. Another 2.5 Million perhaps (given that he works in real estate)

    1. Re:Debt to Society? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Given that he works in real estate, he could have made 2.5 million in 13 years and lost 4 million in one.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  34. The solution is to charge you with a crime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The solution is to charge you with a crime (for refusing to comply with the court order, etc) THEN throw your ass in jail. It's not ok that a judge can sentence someone to jail for an indefinite period without a trial and conviction. The current system is enabling judges to be assholes.

  35. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Rich0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Then when she sued for divorce he hid all his money in some offshore company and pretended it was lost in a "bad investment". It was a blatant lie. This guy deserves to rot in prison until he decides to come clean.

    No, he deserves to be charged with purjury, which is the crime of lying under oath. Then a jury needs to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt that he did in fact lie. Then he gets punished per the laws passed by the appropriate legislative body (which probably won't include 14 year prison sentences).

    People should go to jail for committing crimes. Crimes should be established by laws passed by legislative bodies. Whether somebody has committed a serious crime should be determined by a jury of their peers.

  36. Guinness Book by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 1

    Not for contempt...

    Rather for spite.

    --
    "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
  37. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by superdave80 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "This guy is a real tool....This guy deserves to rot in prison"

    Yeah, but what happens when some judge thinks you are a real tool, and deserves to rot in prison for 14 years? With no trial? No evidence? No jury?

  38. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  39. People forget! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In order to do any of those things however, they should be able to prove that you have the ability to provide those key. They need to account for people who lost their passwords. Hell, even gmail accounts for people who lost their passwords.

    People will loose their stuff, and forget things. You can't imprison them for that!

  40. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Duradin · · Score: 1

    Instead of the 2.5 million the wife should have gone for the standard "ex-wife is set for life" package with the house, car, and alimony of 50% of the guy's income and or gains for life.

  41. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

    Tax the hell out of him how? Are you going to pass special legislation targets only at him?

    If he doesn't work, and from what I understand he doesn't, then he has no wages to garnish.

    He was put in prison for contempt of court, not owing money.

    Watch his bank transaction? All he has to do is have the money sent to him as he needs it via Western Union or MoneyGram. He could also do other fun things, like staging a fake lottery and claiming it as winning. Granted he would have to pay taxes on the money, but he would not have to share it as it was not "won" during the marriage.

    Money laundering just takes a little creativity.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  42. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  43. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "tax the hell out of him"

    Judges don't impose taxes. Taxes are not levied on crimes. You seem to be completely oblivious about the purpose and even the basic definition of taxes.

  44. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can't charge him for what he owed, since he didn't owe a set amount. He probably owed a proportion of the assets that the couple had. The problem was that he hid the money over seas, and refused to allow the courts to investigate. He had two ways to free himself: pay up, or let the courts search his overseas assets.

    Ironically, your suggestions are more draconian that sticking someone in jail.

  45. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

    Then when she sued for divorce he hid all his money in some offshore company and pretended it was lost in a "bad investment". It was a blatant lie. This guy deserves to rot in prison until he decides to come clean. He held the keys to his release the entire 14 years. He was just a stubborn liar.

    Whether or not he knows the whereabouts of the money is totally immaterial. Even the judge who freed Chadwick believes he knows where the money is.

    The fact of the matter is, this is America pal. We don't have judges summarily meting out punishments to people. We have due process, and trials by juries of peers, and things of that nature.

    Contempt of court is a special case where a person is detained, not as punishment for refusing to comply with a lawful court order, but as coercion to comply with said order. The new judge ruled that Chadwick's confinement was in fact a punishment, not coercion, because after 14 years, Chadwick was unlikely to be coerced to comply with the lawful court order.

    If Chadwick ought to be punished, fine. But let's advocate doing it in a manner that is consistent with our ideals (and the US Constitution, Amendments 5 and 14).

    --
    They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  46. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This guy deserves to rot in prison until he decides to come clean. He held the keys to his release the entire 14 years. He was just a stubborn liar.

    Wait, wait!

    When is it my turn to have the right to decide which activity qualifies for being 'asshole' enough to justify spending life in prison without a trial? Is there a list to sign up for this right?

    There's a few things that people are doing which I think shouldn't be done in a good society, nothing would please me more than seeing those assholes rot and die crying with no way of getting released .

  47. Martin Armstrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what about Martin Armstrong?

  48. I think nobody ever thought someone would do this by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    Laws have to writter and this means somebody has to have thought of what could happen. This hostage taking by the court is supposed to convince you to comply. Most people do. The only people who often refuse are journalists out of principles that most of would support.

    This guy ain't somekind of hero. If he really didn't have the money, he could have fought that in court, but he didn't. Me thinks he got the money and an enormous stick up his ass that made him act this way.

    The entire world relies on the fact that people more or less follow the rules. Someone who doesn't can seriouysly upset the system. Take serial killers. One of the "rules" of society is that you kill loved ones, not random strangers. Most murders are solved but serial killings are the major exception because it is very difficult for the system to deal with someone who works outside it.

    Say a person is standing in front of your door. Doesn't go away when asked, doesn't go away when it rains or snows. If arrested resists, if released goes right back. If sent to jail, the moment he is out is right back. Year in, year out. What can the system do? NOTHING!

    The system relies on people, even criminals, to obey the rules. If you really just don't, the system falls apart.

    Just as countless women are killed by abusive husbands despite restraining orders and jailtime because if an abuser just does not listen, well the only cure then is the death penalty or he will go back and kill his ex.

    We can more or less live without fear until the day we are on the wrong end of someone who just doesn't follow the rules.

    This guy broke the rules and got trapped in a grey area where society doesn't work anymore. Nobody has any answer for somebody NOT complying with a court order other then prison and/or death.

    Proof? 14 yrs and no proof the money ain't there or a payment.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  49. Totally worth the 14 years... by mech_knight · · Score: 1

    $2.5 Million over 14 years amounts to about $178k/year (not including interest earned if he had it invested somewhere). A great "up yours" to his gold digger ex-wife.

    --
    "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you?" --Yoda {whips out green light saber}
  50. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by minion · · Score: 1

    I saw this story on TV a few years ago.

    This guy is a real tool. He was a multi-millionaire ultra-tightwad. He made his wife do all the landscaping on their mansion. She left him when he started rationing her toilet paper usage.

    Then when she sued for divorce he hid all his money in some offshore company and pretended it was lost in a "bad investment". It was a blatant lie. This guy deserves to rot in prison until he decides to come clean. He held the keys to his release the entire 14 years. He was just a stubborn liar.

    You're completely wrong.

    I think this country still believes in innocent until proven guilty.

    You're no better than the judge if you feel that way. You need to use the law to make judgements, not your feelings, empathy, biasness, or your strong latina back ground.

    --

    -- If we don't stand up for our rights, now, there will be no right to stand up for them later.
  51. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 1

    All of this is absolutely, 100% irrelevant. I don't think anybody here on /. will argue that this guy is not worthy of condemnation, I am sure he is human pond scum, but that is NOT a good reason to put someone in prison! In America you have the right to be an a-hole -- you don't have anything to worry about until you A) violate the law and B) a jury of your peers decides that there is sufficient evidence of said infraction as to punish you for it. That is not what happened, this judge put a man in jail on a whim, because he would not immediately cooperate, which is a grotesque abuse of judicial power. He should have been brought up on fraud/perjury charges in a criminal court. If he was found to be in violation of the law, then it would be legitimate to send him to prison. Short of this, keeping him in jail for such a long time is inexcusable.

    --
    To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
  52. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    He probably LIKED being in prison, where he could save money and the government paid for everything he needed.

    --
    Qxe4
  53. You are all missing one thing by jd.schmidt · · Score: 1

    Before you sharpen your pitch forks too much, there is one thing to look into. Did the man in this case have proof he actually lost the money? Was the money traceable? Did the court have proof he at one time had the money?

    Look, the woman and the court presumably had indisputable proof he had the money shortly before the divorce. I think we all understand the likely thing that happened next was he put his money in a untraceable location and *failed* to provide any documentation. He could as easily claimed aliens took his money, can you prove they didn't?

    The courts can't imprison you for something they have no evidence of, but remember they had evidence and he absolutely lost. Once he loses the case, he HAS to comply. If courts are literally unable to punish you for failing to follow a court order, all court orders would be ignored. Really, every court order would be ignored and why not? They court has no power to do anything about it. After a trial do you have to have another trial for ignoring the results of the first trial? Followed by another trial for ignoring the results of that trial and so on? And imagine what the case would look like "Members of the jury, here is the court order for the defendant to do X, we will now call the pervious judge as a witness to verify that X was not done."

    OK, you may think that the court would have been better served by taking other assets it could reach. Maybe that might have worked in this case. But if Courts are unable to enforce rulings they literally have no power at all.

    1. Re:You are all missing one thing by dynamo · · Score: 1

      Before you sharpen your pitch forks too much, there is one thing to look into. Did the man in this case have proof he actually lost the money? Was the money traceable? Did the court have proof he at one time had the money?

      Look, the woman and the court presumably had indisputable proof he had the money shortly before the divorce. I think we all understand the likely thing that happened next was he put his money in a untraceable location and *failed* to provide any documentation. He could as easily claimed aliens took his money, can you prove they didn't?

      Under the US System, it's the wife that needs the proof, to legally lock up this guy. If they had documentation that the money existed, they would have gotten it in the last 14 years. There's no longer any way a reasonable person could call the judge unbiased. That disregarder of justice could have been doing the wife at the time, and he still wouldn't have looked more unfair than he does now.

      The courts can't imprison you for something they have no evidence of, but remember they had evidence and he absolutely lost. Once he loses the case, he HAS to comply. If courts are literally unable to punish you for failing to follow a court order, all court orders would be ignored. Really, every court order would be ignored and why not? They court has no power to do anything about it. After a trial do you have to have another trial for ignoring the results of the first trial?

      No, but you shouldn't go to jail unless you've been legally sentenced to it for a crime after being found and convicted by a jury.

      Followed by another trial for ignoring the results of that trial and so on?

      If the previous trial was not for a criminal offense that carries the sentence of jail time (which a divorce trial is not), then yes, until you have been legitimately and legally sentenced to jail.

      And imagine what the case would look like "Members of the jury, here is the court order for the defendant to do X, we will now call the pervious judge as a witness to verify that X was not done."

      OK, you may think that the court would have been better served by taking other assets it could reach. Maybe that might have worked in this case. But if Courts are unable to enforce rulings they literally have no power at all.

      If the ruling was clearly something that was possible for the guy to do, then sure, yes. But it's not clear.

      What if everyone starts saying they don't have the money from now on? Then the other side has to prove it.
      That's a very similar question to - what if the guilty always say they are innocent - guess what, they do. And the system has to prove them guilty before locking them up.

  54. breaking the law or judge's will??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So basicaly what are you saying is, if i am a judge, and i order you to fly across the street or more credible to produce the 10kg of heroine which you buried in the forest, and you don't comply then of course you are breaking the law, and should go to jail for 14 years?

  55. So, who exactly is this judge? by careysb · · Score: 1

    Ok, I read the article, I also read the NYT article. Unless my eyes skipped over it I didn't see any mention of the name of the judge that cited him with contempt, only the name of the judge that let him out. I wonder about reporters who leave the "who dun'it" info out of an article.

  56. Offshore accounting gnomes business plan: by amateur6 · · Score: 1

    1) Send $2.5 Million overseas.

    2) Get divorced.

    3) ??? (x14 years)

    4) PROFIT!

  57. n Guilty Men by dereference · · Score: 1

    It is better to set the gulity free than to punish the innocent.

    The more interesting societal issue: At what ratio?

  58. What about proportionate punishment/deterrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So after you is ok a 14 year term for 2.5 mil your own money, and not endangering anyone? As a matter of fact i heard smaller penalties for robbing a bank of 2.5 mil, or for murdering someone!!

    1. Re:What about proportionate punishment/deterrent by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      The 14 years and the 2.5 million dollars(of his wife's money from a legal standpoint not his) are totally unrelated. It doesn't matter if it's a trillion dollars or 5 cents.

      He went to jail for 14 years because he refused to comply with the court order for 14 years. If he'd turned over the 2.5 million dollars he'd have been set free that instant. He wasn't sentenced to anything. Every time he refused to pay the money he owed he committed contempt again.

      No one seems to understand that if you say "the longest you can be held for contempt is 6 months" that no one will ever comply with any court order that is more of a penalty than 6 months in jail. You can't have that or everything falls apart.

  59. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except that they stated that he had it hidden offshore. Their 'proof' was in essence the lawyer's lack of proof.

    It's obvious he was a multi-millionaire. Their proof of this is that HE'S LIVING LIKE A MILLIONAIRE IN A MILLIONAIRE'S MANSION, AND IS A WELL KNOWN MILLIONAIRE! Where'd the money go? Lost it in bad business? Fine, toss us some proof, any proof. An invoice for buying something ludicrously expensive, an email or letter, a bank receipt, ANYTHING. The slightest shred or hint of ANYTHING indicating where millions of dollars... which tends to have paper trails... disappeared to.

    He didn't show them anything. Thus... contempt. Personally, I don't think he should have been let out. Now he can spend his millions of dollars for his last decade or whatever of life on himself and himself alone.

  60. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think anybody here on /. will argue that this guy is not worthy of condemnation ...

    I will.

  61. The real question here by dynamo · · Score: 1

    What is going to happen to the Judge? He deserves his own trial now. This guy was in his custody and either intentionally left to rot in captivity, or unintentionally forgotten about? Either way, if a parent with custody of a child did that, or a caretaker with custody of an ill person, they would be charged with a crime.

    Also - what that guy even married for 14 years?

  62. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Trecares · · Score: 1

    In order to convict someone of perjury, you need evidence that they actually lied. What they are lacking for that conviction is that evidence which he conveniently didn't turn over. So while they could have charged him, they don't have the evidence to convict him for lying.

  63. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Rich0 · · Score: 1

    Strangely, we manage to convict murderers without their cooperation in the investigation.

    If there isn't any evidence that the guy was lying about the $2.5M, then isn't it wrong to stick him in prison for 14 years?

  64. Wow by sonicmerlin · · Score: 0

    What a screwed up society we live in where a man is forced to live for over a decade in a jail cell for not giving his worthlessly evil wife millions of dollars for betraying him. Western society is full of anti-male propaganda and protects women far better than it protects men. It's despicable and ultimately saddening.

  65. So, by... by Cormophyte · · Score: 1

    "continued imprisonment would be legal only if there was some likelihood that ultimately he would comply with the order" you mean that after twelve years, or hell, two, it was still unclear that he committed to his story?

  66. definitely insightful by pigwiggle · · Score: 0, Troll

    in that it gives us insight into who you are. I think this "bitter man" mentality says everything about your personal defects, and next to nothing about women in general. Whenever I hear this kind of bitching I immediately wonder what kind of looser attracts the kind of woman you describe, or alternately, how clueless you must be to have overlooked the boundless clues to your mates deficits. I've been with my wife for a dozen years. She has almost always made twice my salary - often earning a solid six figures. We don't separate out finances, and she has never begrudged my sometimes extravagant purchases of giant TVS, toys, music, whatever. If she were to split today, far more than half of what we have would rightly be hers to take. I suppose it's possible we could have a terrible breakup sometime. But I know her better than anyone, and I can't see her making it so bad as to negate the many incredible years we have had together. I think in general - with exceptions of course - people deserve the mate they find. All told, you probably just suck. And I'm super awesome.

    --
    46 & 2
  67. Re:I think nobody ever thought someone would do th by sonicmerlin · · Score: 0, Informative

    Are you even aware that the violence committed between couples is split evenly between men and women? I'm sure feminist propaganda would have you believe otherwise, but if you knew anything about social psychology you would be shocked to find out women are perpetrators of severe violence just as often as men.

  68. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by WarlockD · · Score: 1

    That's the point, he went to court. The jury said he is a millionaire and he should put up his cash. Judge said pay up or show insolvency. He didn't and he was in contempt. At any point this guy could file for bankruptcy, show all his financial records, at the very least put a "best" effort into it. Even showing the "losses" in his overseas assets. So what he did?

    Nothing.

    In the end, he didn't sign a petition by the wife that says he was poor. I am not saying this was the best solution. Maybe the state didn't have the laws in place to garnish wages like this. It could be that the only tool the judge had was to force an order. Whats really telling is that while his lawyer had been working pro bono for 6 years, how much was he being paid for the last 8...

    He could of left at any time, but he was THAT much of an asshole that he thought jail was better than paying his wife's fair share.

  69. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think you get it... he had the power to get himself out of prison!

    Imagine your mom coming home and seeing the TV in your living room just... gone. She goes to her son and says "WTF happened to the TV?!" and he replies that it was broken. Being suspect that he sold it or something as there was no mess left behind at all, she says "ok, where are the broken pieces?" and the son refuses to show them to her. The mom sends him to his room until he fesses up to doing whatever he did with the TV or showing her the broken pieces of the TV. The son is particularly stubborn and chooses not to own up to what he did, and the mom is just as stubborn and won't let him out until he fesses up.

    Its the same thing here, the guy apparently made zero attempt to prove his losses or come up with the money. I do agree that at some point, you have to look at what the maximum sentence would have been for any potential crime he may have committed, maybe add some time on for good measure, and then let him out. Then again, maybe that is what the judge did.

    Its just mind boggling that this guy would rather sit in prison than make any attempt, no matter how meager, to prove his losses.

  70. "Contempt of court" summarized here: by rebmaster · · Score: 1

    "contempt of court" is that all-encompassing non-offense that occurs anytime somebody fails to treat a pathologically vain cross-dresser with a gavel like a vacationing Olympian deity.
    - William Grigg

  71. Re:He's just a stubborn liar by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

    The problem with your argument is that he DID provide proof of the bad investment. It's patently ridiculous, but he has documentation that had made the bad investments. On the T.V. Program that profiled this case, roughly 6-8 years ago, they actually showed them.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  72. Marriage makes misery. Avoid at all costs, guys. by echtertyp · · Score: 1

    All this could have been avoided if the poor bastard had just NOT MADE THE BIGGEST MISTAKE A MAN CAN MAKE -- MARRIAGE. Guys, if you have not yet done so, take 10 minutes to Google for the problems of marriage for men. Or cut to the chase and skim nomarriage.com, either way. Educate yourself on the realities of marriage, please.

  73. What? by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    Looks like two of his constitutional rights were violated. We have a right to a jury trial for any dispute involving an amount of money over twenty dollars.

    Dude, he HAD the trial. That's how it was established he owed the $2.5M. When the trial was over he a) refused to pay up, and b) refused to show any reason why he couldn't (other than an assertion that he couldn't). I have no sympathy for the guy.

    1. Re:What? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but he was not convicted of any crimes. Refusal to pay a civil judgement should not be punishible by life in prison (which this case could easily have been since he was placed there indefinitely). There isn't even any evidence that he could pay the judgement in the first place. Some might aruge he had money, some might argue he didn't. Well, that's exactly what juries are for!

  74. Oh, for heaven's sakes by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    There was substantial evidence that the guy 1) moved the money out of the country, and 2) snuck it back into the country and hid it. He had like 14 appeals, and all the judges agreed with the original: the guy was thumbing his nose at the court. He could have gotten out of jail at any time if he had just done what the original court ordered. I have absolutely zero sympathy.

  75. There was a hell of a lot more than speculation by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    The plaintiff produced credible evidence that the guy was lying when he said he had used the funds to pay off a debt. He sent the money overseas, then snuck it back into the US and hid it somehow. He was far from innocent.

  76. Mod parent up by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    Geez, the assumption around here that the judge was some kind of moron who likes throwing people in jail for no particular reason is nuts. The guy appealed this order over a dozen times, and every time he was told (based on evidence the plaintiff had gathered) "you have the money - cough up". He just refused.

  77. What's with the "no trial"? by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    Dude, he HAD the damn trial. The plantiffs presented evidence that he had control of this money. The judge ordered him to pay it. He refused and was jailed for contempt. He appealed 14 times and was each time told to obey the original court's order. This business of being imprisoned without trial is BS... he had the trial, and refused to abide by the results.