Slashdot Mirror
Music Game Genre On the Decline
After enjoying several years of popularity, music games seem to be drawing less and less interest from gamers lately. Guitar Hero and Rock Band titles have been conspicuously absent from a list of the 20 best-selling software titles in the past two months, and one report estimates that revenue from those games has dropped by almost half. Analyst Jesse Divnich suggests that there's no longer much room for dramatic improvements in game play, saying, "it would be erroneous to assume that any franchise or brand can grow unless it brings something new to the table. After a while, utility to the gamer will diminish and he/she will surely move on." Nevertheless, the companies are happy to continue to rely on DLC sales while working on new releases. Harmonix is showing off a trailer and a partial set list for The Beatles: Rock Band, and Neversoft has detailed a number of new features and tracks for Guitar Hero 5.
Should I stop development of Bagpipe Hero? I JUST got the rights from AC/DC for "It's a Long Way to the Top (If you wanna rock and roll)"
Their new feature? "Challenges" aka achievements...
Disclaimer: I am not god.
We may not be created equal
But we can be treated equal.
Some innovative company will emerge with a new concept nobody's thought about, and we'll be hooked on that for a while.
There is no "perfection". There are only new concepts, and there's an unlimited supply of them.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
the link to destructoid got destroyed.
Anyone know what the "Number of New Features" is?
It doesn't help that the controllers cost an arm and a leg. In tough economic times, if I have to choose between 3 or 4 games and one game with it's proprietary controllers....guess what, I'm getting the former.
Guitar hero needs more Buckethead, less Elton John.
How about a game called "Bong Champion"? They could make controllers which are shaped like 2-foot bongs, and they could show onscreen representations of your character toking fat bong hits, as controlled by the inspiration presure sensor in the bong controller, as activated by a "lighter switch" on the bong-troller.
When the player gets tired and stops sucking, the on-screen character could be shown as passing out. When a player sucks for more than x seconds, he or she can get "puke power" and double points after their on-screen player pukes all over the place.
Alternately, there could be a hidden mini-game called "fellatio" champ. Use your imaginations :) Except for religious pussies, they have no imagination and they'd be best left to playing pin the tail on the donkey with mommy nearby to make sure that the punch stays non-alcoholic.
-- Ethanol fueled
What's been released in the last 2 months ? Guitar Hero : Smash hits ? It's basically a rehash of already released content, you can't expect record sales from that. The last big release in the genre was Guitar Hero : World Tour/Rock Band 2, and that was late last year. Big article about nothing if you ask me.
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
Could never understand the appeal of carpel tunnel hero...
Don't get me wrong--I enjoy extended Guitar Hero sessions with friends as much as the next guy, so I'm glad it exists. But it seems to me that if you're interested enough in playing music to spend hours on a simplified simulator, you might as well buy a cheap guitar / bass / drum kit and do it for real. It's not quite as easy, but it's far more rewarding and you aren't limited to playing other people's songs.
Your brain is not a computer.
Gee, think that might have anything to do with flooding the market with sequel after sequel until nobody can keep track of them any more?
DJ Hero looks to be the newest addition to freshen up the genre.
I'm not sure people will find it as "accessible" as guitar hero though due simply to the fact that almost everyone young and old understands the concept of a guitar.
Guitar Hero "Smash Hits" to sell like Hot Cakes?!?!?!?! Its a greatest hits album for a music game.....any greatest hits should have just been released as DLC. In fact, I think I've bought about 300 rock band songs, at $2 each, that equals about 10 times a single copy of a game (since they've said they don't make money on the controllers).
Activision especially has been milking this market for a while with new Guitar Hero packages yearly. Harmonix seems to be much more focused on quality vs quantity and also focused more on DLC than retail goods. In the end I think Activision is going to be hit the hardest by this as they've been pushing new instruments and Guitar Hero games yearly. There's only so many times people will upgrade their plastic instruments before the market is saturated.
Plus, there's also the fact that you can go out and buy a real guitar for twice the price of one of these sets and develop a real skill with a real instrument that if properly maintained will last a life time.
Seriously -- we are going to need something new to keep us entertained. How many Rock Bank/Guitar Hero games have there been now? Do they really think that people are dumb enough to keep buying the same thing over and over? They need to innovate! Figure out a way to use a real guitar, for instance. Then people can actually learn to play an instrument! Make it easier for users to upload their own songs. I don't know what the answer is, all I know is that they keep dumping the same thing on people over and over again, and most are not going to be willing to keep shelling out $60 for a new collection of songs every 6 months. They are not even beating a dead horse anymore, they have completely annihilated the horse's carcass and are now beating a vaguely horse-shaped grease spot into the ground.
To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
Like your significant other giving you dagger eyes when you mention picking up a $300 video game. It's okay though. I still have Enemy Territory. I mean, those guys who it happens to still have Enemy Territory.
No, honey, I'm not on slashdot again. Yes, I'm updating my resume. What don't... what, is that a baseball bat? What are you... OH JESUS, MY LEGS! WHY ARE YOU DOI
!#&^!$#^(&*) NO CARRIER
If we could just get rid of modern music and reality TV shows.
There's so many damn versions out there, not just of major number releases like GH5 but spin-offs and other crap.
Frankly, I'm astounded at the level of popularity and dumbfounded by the success of something like Rock Band with all those expensive peripherals. I would have pointed to that sniper game on that Sega system, the one with the $200 gun accessory with the TV built into the scope and said it would be another failure like that. Looks like I was wrong but it also looks like they're going to run the genre into the ground until people are sick of it.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Maybe most people started playing Frets on Fire... LOL!
Seriously though, if that game (had) really caught on, Guitar Hero and Rock Band would be finished. Especially if there was full band integration and some of the other features from both other franchises were added.
interactive hologram, or it didn't happen.
I'm a fan of RB, love the drums, but can't stand the guitar with buttons. I'd love to be able to use a real drum kit or guitar and interface them with the game. Would be great for learning how to play and would allow people to learn skills with real instruments. I'm aware of guitar rising although it has been under development for years.
Chris
"Serious" must mean "selling extremely poorly compared to Rock Band and Guitar Hero."
I love DDR but gimme a break, you can't really say that the lawsuits and discontinuation of DDR from arcades counts as "going strong." Or that any of those DDR games have ever come close to touching Rock Band's popularity outside of an increasingly small niche audience.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
Well, there are problems so far: Roxor's In the Groove being sued out by Konami (I still question why Konami would do such a thing to an innovative series), Pop'n Music not having a serious home Japanese title since 14 (the Wii version does not count), and PiU Pro not gaining as much acceptance as anticipated. Pop'n and IIDX, sadly, have not ever had a decent American release, and even though this is the time to do it, Konami has not done a good job at all. IIDX US and DDR Hottest Party, anyone? :(
IMHO, In the Groove has been one of the more successful of the American hardcore rhythm gaming group; I have some friends who are working feverishly on a fan-made spinoff of ITG, called "OpenITG," which strives to bring back the glory days of this title. And of course, the game engine is based strongly on StepMania, which alone has some insane keyboard and pad charts created by its community.
It's funny how the fans are usually the ones who help drive along the rapid difficulty increases in rhythm games (Pop'n, for one, is an outstanding example of when a "family friendly game" quickly becomes an exceptionally challenging title. Just look for "Blue River EX 43" on YouTube, for example).
Anyone else thinking that sales are down because there is only a finite market for music based games and it's much closer to saturation point now than it was when the last batch of good games were released? GH Metalica is really only a purchase if you're a metalica fan, while GH Greatest/Smash Hits has had lack-luster reviews and will largely only get a purchase from the hardcore fans and those new to the series that didn't get to play GH1/2/3/80's.
RB Beatles and GH5 are slated for September release and have now been out of the top 20 for 2 months. How exactly is the last major game release of a developer dropping out of the top 20 just 4 months before the release of their next major title a "decline"? Most development studios would make blood sacrafices to be in the top 20 that long!
Filler article for the summer games-news drought.
I only buy pepper spray that's been tested on anti-vivisectionists.
Alesis had a cool theremin-like synth years ago. I bet you could get a Wii controller to behave like one.
If your only tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.
Hmm, that comment seems familiar. Are you still bitter that Guitar Freaks didn't catch on with anyone except 5 Japanese guys? Don't kid yourself, all that crap is niche...even in Japan.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
I'll buy one when we finally have Dire Straits available to play on guitar. 'Cause I want my ... you know.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
DDR is nowhere near as popular as it used to be.
Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
Even if they keep adding more songs, it's pretty much the same thing over and over. I played it here and there at a friend's place and the repetitive button mashing gets old fast - there's no real sense of accomplishment.
Add a mod or controller that allows you to hook up a real guitar, and figure out some "skill / sound = more points" system. Something similar to the voice recognition for the microphone in rock band. Now you're actually learning a real instrument and feel some sense of accomplishment (and your parents / spouse won't be on your ass for wasting time 'playing video games'). Set up some gaming version of i-tunes where you can buy new songs and play them. I've never met a guitar player that just stopped playing 'cause it was boring or they "just didn't feel like it anymore". Factor in the continuous influx of songs by artists and now you've got a virtually infinite business model.
Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
Not to mention that the retail sales should be smaller than last year due to fewer bundles being sold (since everyone that wants the controllers already has them). Add that we're in a recession and game sales as a whole are down, and that this study doesn't include digital song download revenue (at $2 a pop!); this is a non-story.
Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
1) MTV doesn't play music.
2)Are you seriously implying that the Who, Nirvana, Elvis Costello etc are MTV bands? Or the obscure stuff Bikini Kill, the Libyans, etc? So, they have a Panic at the Disco song, there's 70+ other tracks. Don't pick that song if you don't like it.
You're a whiner!
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
I'm a musician, I've been playing for as long as I can remember. And all my musician jackass friends snidely say this exact same thing to people who are good at rock band, and it has started to irritate me. Guitar hero is not playing music, and the skills do not transfer as people seem to think. Pressing buttons while holding your hands in a similar position as when playing a guitar gives you zero indication of musical ability or any positive benefit for your playing. It only shows you can move your fingers in time with a beat, but thats where the similarity ends. Its like me saying "oh fly fishing you wave a big wooden stick and baseball you do the same! Fisherman should be good at baseball!"
Don't get me wrong, I think these games are fun as hell even though I don't own them. I love when a friend has rock band and we all knock back a few and rock out, cheap easy fun. But don't dellude yourself, rock band will do little to lessen the years it takes to be able to play live with people and not make horrible noise. That being said, I respect people who are really good at it becase although i'm a pretty decent guitarist, I can't do those nutso songs on expert. And my friends are wrong to presume I should be able to.
Gamasutra has discovered that U.S. Guitar Hero/Rock Band revenues are down 49% year on year, as discounted hardware and over 20 SKUs flood the market.
Anonymous Coward wrote:
America isn't the only country.
The article is about sales in the United States.
All you wasted time looking up about the game isn't going to push sales, but to a few very hardcore players. New players either get it because they didn't play the older games, or don't because they are sick of playing the same songs over and over again. It's not the main series, so forget about sales being high, especially in the summer months, right in the middle of a recession.
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
Are you still bitter that Guitar Freaks didn't catch on with anyone except 5 Japanese guys?
It has. Konami has acknowledged Guitar Hero Arcade as the North American counterpart to Guitar Freaks by licensing its GF patents to Activision for use in GH. See the Wikipedia article and its references.
Basically, each new title that comes out invalidates all the previous songs. I now own GH III. GH Aerosmith, GH World Tour and GH Metallica. There is *some* sharing of DLC amongst the latest titles, but for every disk I put in my console - that acts to eliminate the majority of my collected songs from my available playlist. Until/Unless the next version of Guitar Hero allows me to copy ALL the songs from ALL my Guitar Hero's onto my disk and play them all from a single playlist, well, i'm losing interest.
I bet the relatively high input lag of LCD monitors has something to do with this. Even 20-40ms of latency can wreck games where timing and rhythm is important.
LCD manufacturers - please include this spec!! (CRT monitors don't suffer from this problem).
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
Seriously though, if that game (had) really caught on, Guitar Hero and Rock Band would be finished.
No, their publishers would just sue anybody who distributes Frets on Fire for patent infringement in every country that recognizes software patents. The article is about sales in the United States, which is one such country.
Same thing happened with DDR. I love it, and there will always be a hardcore group of DDR players. But the market is saturated, and it isn't new anymore, so sales won't continue to climb forever.
Comparing Guitar Freaks to Guitar Hero is like comparing a quill pen to a ballpoint. Yes, Guitar Freaks was first, but it's primitive and awkward compared to Guitar Hero or Rock Band. So, Activision settled with Konami to prevent a lawsuit...that doesn't make Guitar Freaks a popular game.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
You can thank Activision for that one, a new $60 game every couple months that is really nothing more than the same game with new songs gets old quick. DLC was supposed to end that but instead they do things like add some extra "frets" that are rarely used or throw in some cymbals to require the gamer to buy the entire package again to play the game properly. Harmonix has at least been a bit more responsible about it, but there is enough from them looming on the horizon to make them just as guilty. Things should get a little better now that there is at least some intercompatabilty between the two but in the end greed has turned off most gamers I know.
I don't want to buy another plastic instrument bundle, or pay $60 for effectively a song pack. The important thing for Guitar Hero and Rock Band was to distribute their product to the market, so that they could use those products as a store front to sell you more "DownLoadable Content" (add-on songs). Retail packages may be on the decline, but it's always fun to pick up a few new songs now and then. The concept of Rock Band or Guitar Hero don't really get boring unless you run out of songs you like, or over-saturate yourself with the various different editions of each game.
Then again, I can't wait for The Beatles game.
Twinstiq, game news
BagOnica or HarmPipe. Add orgies and drugs and you'll have a... HIT, in more ways than one. Bonus for learning to play the babpipe Porn-Elevator-Music (Pornavator) style. Extra points if you can avoid dizziness for continuous blows on looped "money shot" scenes.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
The genre as it exists now is just fun.
If it ever expanded into real teaching with a real guitar, you'd create a new generation of Eric Claptons zoning out with their guitar in their room for months at a time until they got good.
Real fun teaching software would rule the software world.
For those of you too young to remember, in 1993 MTV still played some music, and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was in heavy rotation at the time. In the early '90s, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, and what not were all very much MTV bands (and Kurt Cobain really hated that). The Who and Elvis Costello, not so much. :)
I'd love to play keyboard hero. Of course I already know how to play so would be at a bit of an advantage compared to my friends, but it could help improve my sight reading and give me some music to play in a situation I usually wouldn't be playing in (something like a 'real' rock band, as opposed to playing solo 99% of the time).
If they ever made keyboard hero they'd probably use some sort of silly way of showing the notes rather than the real score which would be annoying. They'd probably also use a tiny toy keyboard and not allow MIDI input from a real 88-keyboard but I'd take whatever I can get if it isn't too expensive/lousy.
*snicker* Oh, man. The desperate, flailing responses to this ought to achieve EPIC levels of hilarity. Here goes...
Could you define "serious" in terms of music games? Judging by your list of games, it has to be some combination of... let's see... inaccessibility to the US general public (either by gameplay, taste in music selection, and/or import restrictions)? Obscurity? Lower sales? Less popularity in the obviously oh-so-unhip US? J-Poppiness? Is it the J-Pop? It's the J-Pop, isn't it? The more Japanese and less American something is, the better it is by default, right? Ever since the lawsuit, ITG (er... ITG2? Why only 2?) was allowed onto your list, right?
You didn't see Guitar Queer-o?
Well i have not heard anything about sports games sales being minuscule and all they do is release a game with slightly better graphics every year.
music based game sales are probably just lvling off and a bunch of idiots will continue to buy every iteration that they release, probably the same ones that buy sports titles.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
weren't they the group that killed Napster?
... actually, in all seriousness, I have most of their older catalog, but stopped buying albums after "the black album". Stuff like "Unforgiven" just grated on me ... I'd much rather listen to Master of Puppet, Ride the Lightning or And Justice for All. I didn't stop buying their stuff because of Napster ... I stopped buying their stuff because it started to suck.
(yes, I know, I'm setting myself up for the comments of "started to suck? They always sucked", etc.)
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Perhaps because everybody who is interested has already bought it? I hit my favorite box store once a week to see if a music pack I'm interested in is out. Until the Beatles one is released, I'm not going to have anything to buy to produce the sales blip they are looking for. I'm not saying this is the reason, but couldn't the article have considered this possibility, rather than assuming they knew the answer and writing a bunch of postulation based on that guess?
Given the model those games use, I'd expect a big surge when a new core game + bandkit combo is released that would then taper off, and given that the controllers are largely compatible between versions and across franchises, you'd expect the percentage of sales that are high revenue per unit bandkit + core game combo sales to drop over time, with more purchases of just the game, or individual "instrument" controllers as isolated upgrades and replacements, even if the popularity (which isn't the same thing as $ sales volume) of the genre were constant.
The controllers are a barrier to entry to the genre to begin with, but after that you already have them so they don't enter into the equation.
Seriously, once you're good at music beat games the controllers wear out and / or break after several months. The whammy bar will snap, the clicker will become unresponsive, the drum pad cracks, the pedal cracks in half, etc... The controllers take a lot of wear on the expert setting on the more advanced songs.
Luckily for me, I don't play them as much since guitar hero metallica was released. I really only break it out when I'm drinking with friends. As has been said, the game only goes so far until everything is the same. Metallica is about as hard as I want to go, it's like getting beaten down by notes, my arms get tired after 20 or 30 minutes (which is like one and a half songs, since they're so damn long).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.html?curid=3374411
Not quite the same situation here. There aren't nearly as many clones, you just have Activision saturating the market all by themselves with their own clones of Guitar Hero after the creator went off and made Rock Band.
Of course, I don't really remember the Myst clones, either, but that was probably because I was too busy playing FPS games (and instead of FPS games disappearing, we just got so many Wolfenstein clones that we can't even get a decent Wolfenstein game any more).
-PainKilleR-[CE]
I still play DDR somewhat regularly. I have pads at home and most of the time they are connected to the computer for Stepmania. I'll buy every main DDR title because Konami has an awesome team that knows exactly what they are doing. However, with the exception of ITG no one else has ever released a decent clone. I'm sure I'm not the only one who keeps up at this level so there's always going to be some market for DDR. It's possible that the guitar games will go this way. The big money and interest is in the fad phase. But unless some new genre completely replaces the fix you get from rocking out on the guitar or drums then there will always be some audience for these. As far as peripherals go, the guitar is relatively cheap and sturdy.
I couldn't agree more. The rhythm game genre constantly evolves. Frequency->Guitar Hero->Rock Band (all the same developers). We'll see where they go next.
Where to go next? Well, right now the drums and voice are both analogue instruments that could be hooked up to do whatever. Guitar/bass are not.
It would be terribly interesting to make a game where you tried to play as close to the "notes" as possible, but it actually sounds slightly different from play to play because there is no "master track".
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
...I wanted Piano Hero.
Seriously though, what a cool way to learn some piano that would be. You could start off with falling blobs but progress to actually reading sheet music scroll past. I would happily pay a couple hundred for that game including a simple unweighted keyboard. Then you could sell a nice weighted keyboard as an upgrade.
It's a great game. A fusion of puzzle and fast paced action, set to a soundtrack of any music you have on hand (a number of audio formats are supported, mp3s of course, as well as flac, ogg, and likely several others). Pick a slow, steady song, and the track will be generated accordingly, and be a simple, leisurely game. On the other hand, pick a fast paced, high tempo song (Dragonforce songs are popularized amongst the community as some of the most difficult songs available), and the game will be fast and dangerous, you will soar downhill, barely managing to avoid overflowing your playing area. In addition of any songs you have on hand, a number of songs are provided by Audiosurf for free (from Audiosurf Radio), for players to enjoy.
The game has three difficulty levels (Casual, Pro, and Expert), so anyone can enjoy the game, regardless of skill. Each difficulty has several characters, each with their own nuances and special abilities. Audiosurf maintains a scoreboard for each song every played, so players may compete with each other. You can compete with only friends, your local area, or across the globe. Scores are separated by difficulty, but not by character.
Audiosurf is available on Steam, bundled with the Orange Box soundtrack (some nice songs, if you're a fan of video game music, as I am), and is very cheap. $10 (USD), last I checked. It's the best music game I've seen yet (though I'm not a fan of the genre, really), so I'm sorry if this post seems a bit like an advertisement, but, no, I'm not getting paid for this (I wish I was, though
Some links:
(I know it would have been pithier to just leave this post at "Audiosurf", and I admit I considered it, but I felt an actual description of the game would be more useful.)
I know they have software similar, but not for the XBox with achievement points. Nothing like addictive positive feedback to keep you motivated in your practice.
A keyboard game that starts with the "home" keys and basic notes and scrolls them across the screen in rhythm like guitar hero/rock band, but uses real notes instead of button presses would be really cool.
The only problem is people would probably learn bad form. Its been years since I took real piano lessons, but you could pick up some nasty habits learning to play this way; but at least you could really learn to play...
Yeah its a continent.
There's nothing really new coming in this game. It's the same old stuff. I like EP's preview http://www.elecplay.com/watch/19/167/2/16 the GH5 Game Director is talking about all the new features, but none of them sound innovative. The ability to have multiple instruments like 4 guitar's seems cool, but there's not much other than that. DLC is really what these games are about. If they're releasing a new game they should have new instruments supported, like a keyboard. Or they should shift towards real instruments and doing proper music lessons, or at least head in that direction, or some direction, instead of releasing a bunch of features nobody cares about. At least Beatles Rock Band will have some awesome songs.
Mind writing that in English please? Or at least in provide an acronym dictionary with your dose of alphabet soup?
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
None, really, just more content. Over priced content, IMO.
40 bucks for GH AC/DC with an album full of songs I already own? After one or two purchases like that you start to feel like a sucker.
And it just feels wrong to pay 2$ for a single song download when the same Mp3 is 99 cents or less elsewhere. Most of us already own the songs we want to play with. Paying twice the cost of the song for what amounts to over-simplified tablature feels like a rip off.
I'll buy another rhythm game when I feel it's worth the price. A bigger, better bundle of songs and/or new game play.
Beatles will probably do well though...
These music games are terrible unless you've never played a video game in your life. If that's the case, then sure it will be fun because you have no idea how good other games are. Being an avid gamer, these kind of games are truly boring as the gameplay itself has almost no complexity to it other than different speeds. All you are doing is looking at a note and trying to hit that corresponding button. I mean, any 20 year old game developer novice could make a game like this.. Hardest part would be getting the rights to the songs.
But aren't the new games nothing but overpriced download content? is there really a difference between all the new versions coming out other than one has beatles music and the other has aerosmith? If they want to increase sales again, maybe try something new with the next game?
Xaotik Designs
DDR is so.... 1999.... grow up move on... this GH GF bullshit is just another stupid gaming phase. It's all played out... and I am sick to death of tweens acting like GH actually taught them something about playing guitar...
What a crock....
You wanna be a real hero? YouTube your sorry ass smashing the stupid controller over your console while the game is running.... that might actually be amusing.. /rant