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Windows Drains MacBook's Battery; Who's To Blame?

Posted by timothy on from the pox-on-both-your-houses dept.

ericatcw writes "Users hoping that Windows 7's arrival will mean less power drain on their MacBook laptops may be disappointed, writes Computerworld's Eric Lai. Running Windows 7 in Boot Camp caused one CNET reviewer's battery life to fall by more than two-thirds. But virtualization software such as VMware Fusion suffer from the same complaints. Some blame Apple's Boot Camp drivers (the last ones were released in April 2008); others lay the blame at Windows' bloated codebase. With Apple and Microsoft both trying to avoid responsibility for improving the experience, Windows 7's reported improvements in power management will be moot for MacBook users for a while."

67 of 396 comments (clear)

  1. Nice title. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Windows Drains MacBook's Battery; Who's to blame?

    I blame Microsoft. Much like the title, I was expecting Windows 7 to actually recharge my laptop battery, not drain it.

    1. Re:Nice title. by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 3, Funny

      I don't blame the MacBook. Having to use Windows drains my battery too.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    2. Re:Nice title. by euxneks · · Score: 2, Funny

      I blame Microsoft.

      I wish I didn't have to say that sentence so often.

      --
      in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
    3. Re:Nice title. by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, no, if you actually read the article, the point is that Windows 7 drains batteries on MacBooks that it ISN'T INSTALLED ON. Just take your Windows 7 laptop to your nearest Starbucks, and watch your battery percentage climb as the hipsters around you lose theirs.

  2. Now this is special. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is a whole new and special kind of whining.
    /. has reached a new level.

    Waaaaahhhh!!!

    1. Re:Now this is special. by wampus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Offtopic my fat ass. On a side note, when did Slashdot turn into all Microsoft all the time?

    2. Re:Now this is special. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Offtopic my fat ass. On a side note, when did Slashdot turn into all Microsoft all the time?

      My pet theory is that the prospects of an actual sane and well received OS release from Microsoft with Win7 is something we have trouble relating to and handling, Vista has made us lazy ;), creating a panick in coming up with ever more esoteric MS-bashing stories. Just look at this one, and how it is written, calling it "troll" and FUD are major understatements, if this is all we have to come up with Microsoft have us on the defensive..

    3. Re:Now this is special. by denmarkw00t · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exactly: OH NO - the software I bought for the hardware it isn't supposed to run on doesn't work!

    4. Re:Now this is special. by gig · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > My pet theory is that the prospects of an actual sane and well received OS
      > release from Microsoft with Win7

      Windows 7 is neither sane, nor well-received. There was some pretty good hype for a while, but that bubble burst when it came out that there is no upgrade in-place from XP, which cannot be described as anything other than insane, when 80% of the Windows user base is running XP. Please identify for me even one feature of Windows 7 (6.1) that is so dramatically different from Vista (6.0) that it will cause adoption of Windows 7 to be different from Vista. People are buying XP machines right this minute, in spite of Vista being 2 years old and Windows 7 being on the horizon. There is no upgrade for those machines, they have to be wiped. You have to kill off your old system just to consider upgrading to Windows 7.

      Microsoft even explained that "pent-up demand" will cause Windows 7 to be a hit and have huge adoption. That is the exact same thing they said about Vista. Pent-up demand, if it even exists at all for Windows, is what causes excitement on launch day. It does not sell all-new operating systems or cause people to bite off a day of I-T work to destroy an XP computer and hopefully come out the other end with a Windows 7 system that is better.

      If XP Mode was seamless (it has many seams), and if it were in all Windows 7 (instead of just Ultimate), and if the Windows 7 installer could lift up your current XP and run it in XP Mode after the install is complete, then maybe you would have something here in Windows 7. If people could run the Windows 7 installer in XP and afterwards essentially have both XP and Windows 7, that would be a way forward for Windows. As it is, Windows 7 is just an upgrade for Vista. It will kill off Vista but not XP.

      What Microsoft is doing is very much like what Apple tried in 1997. They announced that Mac OS would soon be retired, and that Mac OS X would take its place. But the Mac OS X they were talking about did not have classic Mac compatibility and the user base and developers took a fit. Had Apple released that Mac OS X, Mac OS 9 would have competed with it endlessly, the same way Vista competed with XP (and lost), and the same way Windows 7 will compete with XP and lose. Instead, Apple created a different Mac OS X that could run Mac OS 9 simultaneously, enabling the entire platform to treat Mac OS X as if it were Mac OS 9 (you could sell one Mac OS 9 app to both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X users) and that acted as a bridge from old to new. Microsoft may be ready to do this for XP in a couple of years (2011) going by the current state of XP Mode, and XP will be 10 years old by then and still the majority of Windows installations.

      Windows 7 is going nowhere. It's surprising you are buying into the idea that this Windows is finally the one people were asking for. They've never, ever come close to building that. Windows 7 is certainly not it. The primary feature people want is XP -upgradability and -compatibility, and it is not in there.

  3. Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by Em+Emalb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have a new MBP and use Fusion. I have an XP image and a Vista image loaded up. I have not noticed any unusual power drain, but that's kind of to be expected, IMO. Also, I have to question the wisdom of using a VM session for more than an hour or so on just the battery.

    I can see some instances where this would be an issue for some, but this seems like senseless "hating" to me. No, I'm not trying to troll or anything else, I'm just having a hard time figuring out why someone would spend a long-ish amount of time in Fusion running a guest OS on battery power. It seems obvious to me that there are issues running a non-native OS on a laptop designed for a specific OS...

    --
    Sent from your iPad.
    1. Re:Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by dr.newton · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree that there would be issues, but going from 4.5 hours of battery life on OS X on a MBP to 2 hours on any other OS is a little extreme!

      I would love to be able to use Linux on my MBP as the primary operating system, but often it is impractical because of the limited battery life.

      That being said, 2 hours is about standard for any other laptop I've owned, so maybe I should think of it as OS X being uncannily power-efficient. ;)

      --
      Just another proletarian malcontent.
    2. Re:Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by ByOhTek · · Score: 2, Funny

      ?? My last notebook got 3.5 hours on the 6 cell battery (could have gotten a 9 cell, but didn't want too) with Windows XP or FreeBSD.

      Dunno what my new notebook will do yet, it came pre-raped with Windows Vista, and I have to clean to goo off the drive and install XP (slipstream the ICH9 drivers anyone?) and FreeBSD (7.2 doesn't have a functional NIC driver, 8.0Beta driver fails at something, not sure what), or KUbuntu (faster than Vista off of the CD, WTF, but also lacking a NIC driver) to test.

      after two days of vista, my butt hurts.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    3. Re:Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by fullgandoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree with you. For instance on my previous generation Macbook Pro, there is no way to tap the touch pad for a mouse click under Windows. You are forced to use the touchpad button.

      On the face of it, it looks like an innocent little accidental omission by Apple, which they steadfastly refuse to fix. Since all the Windows drivers are provided by Apple, I believe it is deliberate on their part to degrade the user experience on anything but OSX. That is just typical mean-spirited behavior by Apple.

    4. Re:Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by gad_zuki! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Its typical slashdot two minutes of hate. I remember this issue being big news here and no where else with XP on boot camp. Apple updated some driver in boot camp the the issue went away. Considering 7 isnt even officially out yet, perhaps the haters should wait for some updates.

    5. Re:Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by fooslacker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your post doesn't really have any rationale behind it but rather states your opinions such as "I have to question the wisdom of using a VM session for more than an hour or so on just the battery" and "that's kind of to be expected, IMO". My response would be why? I'm willing to listen by not just take your word for it. Explain.

      As for your comments on usage patterns and there not being a need for this sort of usage, I sometimes do .NET development in Fusion on my MacBook Pro (especially while traveling). Normally I'm plugged in when doing this but I do sometimes go on battery and I haven't had any issues. I know that not everyone does multi-platform development but if you do you and you find yourself traveling then you try to limit the amount of hardware you have to lug around. The easiest way to do this if you're doing OS X, Java, and .NET work is to use a Mac then run a VM for the .NET stuff, IMO.

    6. Re:Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      >>>going from 4.5 hours of battery life on OS X on a MBP to 2 hours on any other OS is a little extreme!

      Agreed. I've been using Microsoft products off-and-on for the last 25 years... ...and they haven't made a superior product since BASIC 7.0 on my C=128. The Windows 1-to-3 releases were jokes, Win95 was decent but still inferior to the Amiga or Mac OSes, and the new Vista 6.1 (Win7) is a giant blob of amorphous code that refuses to run properly even with 1.5 gigs of RAM in my brother's computer. Even though my XP machine only has 1/3rd as much memory, it still runs faster.

      Windows Vista 6.1 still needs some major rewriting for efficiency. Maybe by the time we get to NT 7.0 these issues will finally be resolved.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by jac89 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I use the windows 7 RC on my macbook via bootcamp and have found the battery life almost the same as osx. Especially if you actually use the power saving menu and switch to low performance.

    8. Re:Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by Rynor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that Microsoft is not a PC vendor, and since you're running Windows on a Macbook you already have bought a license from then so why should they want to sabotage their own business ?

    9. Re:Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Honest Question here. Is the same behavior observed for Vista, or are we only talking about Windows 7? If we are only talking about windows 7, why does everyone expect Apple to have properly working drivers for a BETA version of Windows that hasn't been released yet.

    10. Re:Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe, at least for the VM, it's neither Microsoft nor Apple, but rather VMWare. I wouldn't question the wisdom of using a VM session at all on battery or not. I do all of my browsing, email, IM, etc through different VMs, (eg. 1 VM for Firefox, 1 VM for Outlook, 1 VM for ICQ/MSN), I can't say that I've ever noticed it draining my HP Pavillion's battery any more than anything else really...

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    11. Re:Don't use bootcamp, but I use Fusion by tcc3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      People seem to think you are being reactionary, or a troll. But the truth is the touch pad worked fine in the Bootcamp beta, then at some point it got crippled.

      Its a little too convenient. It wouldn't surprise me if there are other drivers poorly written to punish you for using WIndows.

  4. Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by Sockatume · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Macbooks are essentially the same hardware as Windows machines, down to battery capacity. It is unlikely that a "bloated codebase" would chew through the battery like nobody's business on one x86 machine and suddenly become perfectly benign on a practically identical x86 machine. Bloat doesn't magically appear when you put an Apple logo on something.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    1. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by fatalwall · · Score: 5, Funny

      [...] Bloat doesn't magically appear when you put an Apple logo on something.

      Unless your talking about price!!!

    2. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by gintoki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is slashdot, any issue involving microsoft is automatically their fault. Why RTFA when microsoft is to blame for everything that is wrong with the world.

    3. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Funny

      You don't understand. Buying an Apple is like buying a Lexus or Acura. It gives you the opportunity to brag about your awesome machine, even though there's no real difference between a Lexus v. Toyota, or Acura v. Honda, except the inflated +33% higher pricetag.

      I still remember my friends' reaction when I pointed to his shiny-new Acura and said, "The logo on the glass says Honda. And here inside the glovebox is another Honda logo. And... yep there's a Honda logo on the wheel cover." You would have thought I just insulted his best girl. "No, no that can't be. This is Acura not Honda. That logo's wrong. I only buy the best; the best I tell you."

      I stepped back several feet.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    4. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      LOL... They do have that reputation. However, last time I went shopping for a notebook it was about the same price as a similarly-equipped Dell and so I went with the MacBook Pro. To be fair, some of the features are hard to price-compare - but the pricing was within 5%.

      I haven't tried to run Windows on it - so far everything from Windows-land that I need to run works in Crossover.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A computer is more then just the CPU. The case of how does Windows 7 handle the hardware or the Drivers handle the hardware or a combination of both. Can really effect a system. Apple Hardware isn't more expensive then normal PC's because Apple is making so much more per copy. It is more expensive because there is a lot of little things built in that add up. Go to Dell or Lenovo and try to build yourself a Laptop that matches all of Apples features. When I say All I mean ALL, no excuses like I don't need that anyways. You will find that the prices are about the same... +/- $100.00 or so. But all those little features OS X knows about and uses properly. Boot Camp Drivers Cover most of them, Windows handles other ones. I know for an instance Windows Vista with boot camp keeps the lights on the keyboard while OS X is a bit smarter then that.

      Now comes to the question. Is the Mac made Drivers for Vista keeping those lights on. Or Vista is telling the driver to keep it on. I am betting it is both.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by Dwedit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's a problem in how the NTVDM (Windows NT/2000/XP's DOS subsystem) works. It always gives 100% CPU usage to the program, regardless of what it actually needs. Qbasic runs smooth and snappy on a 286, it just might not be using HALT instructions to indicate that it's done with what it's doing.

    7. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by ByOhTek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bloat doesn't magically appear when you put an Apple logo on something.

      Have you ever used Apple produced software (iTunes, Quicktime, etc.) on Windows? Or noticed their memory requirements on their own OS?

      Not that MS is necessarily any better, but, yeah, Apple is one of the Triumvirate of Bloat for consumer software, in my not-so-humble opinion. The sit in their little triangular table with MS and Adobe.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    8. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

      The friend is clearly motivated by name value alone and doesn't see the respectability of the Acura brand as coming from the car quality but rather from some undefinable je ne sais quoi that somehow Honda doesn't have.

      Clearly, Honda is the Toyota of automobiles. There's nothing wrong with them and a lot right with them. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if they weren't a foreign maker.

    9. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by Nikademus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Multiple driver issues then, as running some OS in fusion isn't the same as in bare hardware, it's a whole new machine from the guest OS point of view.
      If you run windows on the bare hardware, it will use nvidia and all other real hardware drivers.
      If you run windows in fusion, it will use some "generic" hardware drivers.
      So I somehow doubt it's a specific driver problem if it happens both in fusion and on bare hardware.

      --
      I gave up with the idea of an useful sig...
    10. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Clearly, Honda is the Toyota of automobiles.

      Once again you've demonstrated why you chose the user name you did.

    11. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by bickerdyke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Clearly, Honda is the Toyota of automobiles. There's nothing wrong with them and a lot right with them. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if they weren't a foreign maker.

      You enjoy living up to your name, aren't you?

      What's next? Pepsi is the Coca Cola of softdrinks?

      +1 Funny

      --
      bickerdyke
    12. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by JustASlashDotGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes and No. Acura and Honda are made by the same company, but are not the same exact car. Acura is the upper end line, while Honda is not. If you drive a TL and then drive an Accord, there is no way you will confuse the handling, finish, or features of the too. The closest you will come is if you compare the low end Acuras (IE: TSX to the Honda line). Honda makes Acura, Toyota makes Lexus, Nissan makes Infinity, etc. It's nothing new.

      I myself drive a Acura TL and refer to it as a Honda all the time. If there was a comparable car in the Honda line when I got this car, I would have gladly purchased it.

      As for thinking people just Apples because they want to brag, I don't understand that logic. Apples use a completely different OS and way of doing things; there's now cheaper priced Mac OS they can get. In some cases, Apples are better suited for a given task than MS is. Saying Apple users pay more so they can brag to Windows users, is like saying Windows user pay more so they can brag to Linux users. Each OS has their niche. Personally, I wouldn't say any single OS is better than another in every way. To each their own.

    13. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by jimmyfrank · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I bought a macbook because I wanted to run Leopard and XP. Consumer reports also rated Apple laptops #1 in all screen size categories. I'm also not poor so I spent a few xtra bucks.

    14. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by krzy123 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Acura was a brand that was created purely for the NA market (because americans like shiny things/luxury brands). There cars used to be sold as Hondas in Japan. One example has always been the Acura TSX, which is a Honda Accord in Europe.

    15. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Macbooks are essentially the same hardware as Windows machines, down to battery capacity. It is unlikely that a "bloated codebase" would chew through the battery like nobody's business on one x86 machine and suddenly become perfectly benign on a practically identical x86 machine. Bloat doesn't magically appear when you put an Apple logo on something.

      It's (probably) not perfectly benign on an identical x86 machine. Anandtech broke this story in October 2008 (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3435&p=13), so Slashdot is picking things like this up about as quickly as usual. Have you ever wondered why Macbooks often have 50-100% more battery life than a similar non-Mac with very similar specs, including a battery of the same capacity? It's the OS. This is the one area where OSX is the unequivocal champion. Somehow its power savings are vastly better than those in Windows.

      Anand has also made some mistakes, I think, like talking about the 6 hour battery life on new Macbooks and claiming that there are no PCs that can match that time, which is absolutely false. What he needs to do to finish investigating this power difference is install OSX on, say, a Lenovo laptop and see whether battery life improves dramatically. Of course, I think that he won't publish about something that breaks a license agreement, so we'll have to wait for another site with fewer legal worries does it.

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    16. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by PeterChenoweth · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nope. There is. Keyboard backlighting works just fine on my MBP when bootcamped to XP. It does not, however, automatically adjust the keyboard backlight intensity with ambient lighting conditions as OSX does. One can still manually adjust the intensity with the keyboard buttons, if desired.

      Come to think of it, I'm not actually sure the screen brightness adjusts dynamically in bootcamped XP either. It might be the same deal as the keyboard. I can't recall.

      It could be little things like that adding up. Screen brightness is a major drain on battery power. It could be that since OSX can and does (by default anyway) aggressively ramp down the brightness whenever it can when on battery power, it's able to save more watts. Where if XP can't/doesn't do that (on an Apple), you'd get more of a battery drain. Just a thought.

    17. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by brusk · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually a triumvirate of bloat with four members would be quite apt.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    18. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 3, Informative

      LOL... You gave the standard answer, even briefly mentioning Dell. Macs are still way more expensive though.

      That's because Macs don't use the POS Intel graphics chips.

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    19. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by onkelonkel · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Clearly, Honda is the Toyota of automobiles."

      I salute you Sir! You have outdone yourself.

      --
      None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
    20. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by Wizlish · · Score: 2, Funny

      You mean like "Up in Harlem at a table for two / There were four of us -- me, your great big feets, and you"?

    21. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But all those little features OS X knows about and uses properly. Boot Camp Drivers Cover most of them, Windows handles other ones.

      Usually power is handled by ACPI. Apple has two opportunities to fuck up ACPI, in the implementation and in the driver. Most manufacturers do it by using Microsoft's tool to configure it, which creates a sort-of-compliant situation that has really complicated linux ACPI and ruined a lot of people's suspend/hibernate support. Windows can also handle properly compliant ACPI though, of course. Apple could have created a similar situation, or they could have created an ACPI driver included with boot camp which would also break everything. I don't know, since I don't have a mac, but I have been burned by ACPI problems in Linux over and over again.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:Doubt it's the "bloated codebase" by RedK · · Score: 2, Informative

      BZZZT. Thanks for playing. Most parts for the Honda Accord are manufactured in Ohio from 3rd parties. Not just imported and assembled, actually designed and built here. The Accord for a while was even exported back from the states to Japan.

      --
      "Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
      Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
  5. Not just Windows by dr.newton · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have a MBP 5.1, one with both the on-board and discrete Nvidia cards. OS X switches between them depending on whether it is going for power savings or performance.

    The drivers for Windows XP and Linux do not seem to have this ability. When I'm doing nothing but surfing, I get about 4.5 hours of battery life in OS X, but only about 2.1 hours in Linux (Ubuntu Jaunty) and Windows XP.

    I always assumed it was the inability of XP and Linux to switch to the on-board graphics card.

    --
    Just another proletarian malcontent.
    1. Re:Not just Windows by lukas84 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have a ThinkPad W500, which has onboard Intel graphics or a Ati Radeon 3650. They too can be switched automatically or at will.

      The reason you can't do it on XP is because Apple hasn't bothered to release drivers for it.

    2. Re:Not just Windows by Ma8thew · · Score: 4, Informative

      OS X does no switching. Check the 'Energy Saver' System Preferences panel, and you'll see the toggle between the two graphics cards. If you haven't touched it, it'll be in 'Better Battery Life'. Changing between discrete and integrated graphics requires logging out. Windows and Linux cannot switch to the integrated graphics card, explaining some reduced battery life.

    3. Re:Not just Windows by Ma8thew · · Score: 4, Informative

      You've posted a link to an article speculating about Apple switching to the nvidia platform. I, on the other hand, actually own a MacBook pro, and can tell you that I have to logout to switch modes. And there's this article too.

  6. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    No matter how bloated Windows is, battery life is only a function of ACPI drivers --- bootcamp's fault

  7. Can we question the author's qualifications? by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    FTFA: Other than that, Windows 7 has been working great on my MacBook Pro... It looks good, too, even prettier than when it is installed on PC hardware.

    This reminds me of the iPod Nano review here at Slashdot that claimed that the Nano sounded great, even in a moving convertible with the top down. (http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/08/1439244)

    Yes, it's the Apple magic that makes the software look better.

    How can we know that the battery isn't simply returning strange battery level information to the OS that OSX knows how to parse but Windows doesn't? What a strange review.

  8. Boot Camp != Virtualization by guruevi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Boot Camp just resizes the hard drive so it can accomodate a Windows install and then you are able to dual-boot your system. It's also possible to install Linux on the other side for example. So it seems like Windows has an issue with the Intel or NVidia chipset, the processor or just plainly consumes more resources than Mac OS.

    A good comparison would be to install Linux on the other side and see what it's battery life is then. Mac OS X offloads a lot (all) of the desktop rendering to the GPU while the Windows XP desktop doesn't and although Vista's top-end version does, it is offset by the amount of graphics that need to be rendered and the low-end version still doesn't.

    There is a reason that the battery dies quicker and since there is no layer of Mac OS X between Windows and the hardware I doubt it's because Apple did something wrong. It's either Windows or the Intel or NVidia drivers. You can't really compare VMWare or Parallels performance because it's running Windows on top of Mac OS X, it is of course going to consume more resources.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    1. Re:Boot Camp != Virtualization by Lt.Hawkins · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Boot Camp just resizes the hard drive so it can accomodate a Windows install and then you are able to dual-boot your system. It's also possible to install Linux on the other side for example. So it seems like Windows has an issue with the Intel or NVidia chipset, the processor or just plainly consumes more resources than Mac OS."

      Not entirely accurate. Bootcamp also provides BIOS emulation, since current gen macs (not sure for how long though) use EFI.

      I haven't read the article yet (of course.) but I wonder how battery life is when Win7 (which supports EFI) is installed "Natively", i.e. without BIOS emulation.

      --
      -- My Sig is a P228.
  9. HOW by FranTaylor · · Score: 4, Informative

    Can you expect "power savings" when VMware is running? You are basically running two computers at once.

  10. Yeah, Windows XP did this too by Octorian · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Running Windows XP dual-boot on a MacBook Pro (what you people call "boot camp") also drains the battery a lot faster than OSX. I'm pretty sure Apple didn't put much effort into making sure all the hardware drivers worked anywhere near as well under Windows as they do in OSX. (additionally, I've seen display driver quirks and more iffy trackpad operation)

  11. It's Apple's job to find out. by mxh83 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple and it's customers are the only losers if something doesn't work on the Macbook. Microsoft never claimed it would. This situation is very similar to the Palm Pre / Itunes fiasco. If you're a Palm Pre owner, just STFU if Itunes doesn't behave the way it should.

    1. Re:It's Apple's job to find out. by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except it was Apple who changed Itunes to lock out the Palm Pre, so for your analogy to work, I'd say it's still Apple that the issue is with, not Palm.

      (I mean, by default it's obviously Apple's job with this battery issue - but if hypothetically it turned out that MS had intentionally modified Windows to drain the battery on Macs, there'd be an uproar about their action!)

  12. Re:So What? by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    First, a quibble with your argument. You do not pay a "massive premium". Depending on what product you bought, you paid a slight premium or slight discount vs. a similarly-spec'd Dell.

    Second, it should be pretty clear why one would occasionally need to run Windows in native mode. Aside from saving the additional cost of virtualization software, Boot Camp simply runs some programs faster. Also, if I hand my IT department my notebook to configure and it is in Mac mode, they'd have absolutely no ability whatsoever to load it up with the VPN software since they don't do Mac. Put it in Windows mode, and they give no complaints.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  13. Not specifically MacBook/Windows/BootCamp problem by amn108 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem is not specific to Windows or MacBooks. Many developers code as if the only machines that will run their software are permanently el-grid-connected servers or workstations. Polling loops with insane timers (like 1000hz), and they also take the advice "don't optimize prematurely" to mean "don't optimize unless you are payed for it". Re-drawing the display even if it is not needed at all, copying data structures all over, etc. No wonder batteries drain.

    In this case I believe all three are to blame - neither alone is the culprit - I mean Windows usually is compatible with real hardware enough to last couple-three hours on an average laptop battery doing average desktop stuff, MacBook is about the same. Probably BootCamp taking battery awareness too lightheartedly and/or unable to optimize for specific cases like virtualized Windows code running.

  14. Re:fp by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is /. ain't no ladies round here.

  15. I think I know the reason, disk by Ilgaz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    On latest gen (nv9300 based) Mac Mini, I have installed Win7 64bit. It installed all the drivers and even clever to figure mainboard driver giving direct link to nvidia driver exe which is absolutely a very serious risk but anyway...

    The ATA chipset driver is missing from Win7 since Apple didn't really put nv9300 chipset in exact way. So, it falls down to non DMA generic MS driver. Every single byte transferred to/from disk is guaranteed to use massive CPU along with horrible (down to 15MB/sec from 70MB/sec under OS X) slowness.

    So, if Macbooks have similar issue with Windows 7, it could be same issue. As they are battery powered, it would be visible in battery life too.

    BTW, there is no point testing Windows 7 until Apple releases boot camp for Windows 7. Apple computers aren't really PCs. If MS was really clever and wanted Windows 7 to be _really_ tested, they should have printed a very clear privacy policy on screen and actually make machine report all kinds of anonymous stats. That way, they could really figure what is going on. For example, a core duo powered 2009 machine shouldn't really max to 15mb/sec with a SATA 2 drive.

    I couldn't even find something similar to bugreporter.apple.com when I wanted to report issues. All I saw is a stupid forum which beginner level MS engineers are monkeying with templates. They even made their own wrong answer as 'answer to the issue' while it would create massive compatibility problems in one occasion.

  16. Re:Not specifically MacBook/Windows/BootCamp probl by zysus · · Score: 5, Informative

    I write driver level embedded code for a living. Everything from bootstrapping embedded linux to SoC level power management.

    Power management is usually the last thing to get done (if at all)... why? Because management usually sees it as icing on the cake. Attitudes are typically just make it work and we'll ship a bigger battery to make it last. Or we'll ship an upgrade in 6 months, if the product starts to take off and we decide to fund further development.

    Time to market is everything.

    Power management is also really hard to get right 100% of the time. It's really hard to debug code/hardware where stuff is shutting itself off, or worse, a controller uP is shutting you off unexpectedly.

    It has NOTHING to do with 'bad code' or 'shitty programmers'. It's just management grinding down on the engineers to do it: better, faster, cheaper, pick two. Usually faster and cheaper win.

  17. Nvidia has the Answer Right here. by krzy123 · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2243 Pretty straight forward. Regular PC laptops with the dual/triple gpu's can use Nvidia's Hybrid SLI.

  18. Re:Who's to blame? by bdenton42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe it's because you've used Windows since release 1.0, have a ton of applications for it, and just want to run them on a really sharp looking laptop?

    IMO Apple would do well to open up their market a bit and offer MacBooks preloaded with Windows. They would destroy Dell & HP in the high end market.

  19. That is correct by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Informative

    To do something like that, it must be supported by the drivers. As an example a coworker got a new Thinkpad with that feature, may have been the same one you got not sure. The switching works fine in XP. However he wanted to run the Windows 7 RC on it. There, we couldn't get it to work, I had to go in to the BIOS and shut down the Intel card. Why? No Windows 7 drivers for it. In fact at the time, Lenovo had no 7 drivers at all. All drivers had to be obtained from manufacturers of the various parts.

    Any feature like this that deals with hardware must be supported in drivers. That is the responsibility of the OEM that puts the computer together. They don't necessarily write the drivers, but they work with the companies that make the hardware to get drivers for the OSes they wish to support. If Apple elects not to release drivers for Windows that support that, well then it won't work.

  20. Re:Who's to blame? by Karlt1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    of course the users who buy a MacBook, get a great OS shipped on it

    *nix?

    Yep.....

    http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2007/08/mac-os-x-leopard-receives-unix-03-certification.ars

  21. Re:Windows 7 isn't even out yet by smash · · Score: 2, Informative

    Someone subscribed to TechNet or MSDN is not going to be running Windows 7 on a Mac.

    Why not?

    I, for one, have a Mac and a technet subscription - the only reason I don't have the RTM downloading right now is because I've only just signed up and am waiting for my account to be processed.

    ANYONE is free to get a technet subscription and get access to any and all microsoft products (for time-unlimited "evaluation" on unlimited machines for personal use) for about the same price as a copy of Windows ultimate.

    If you're a geek (i.e., the type of person to run bootcamp) and want a copy of Windows RTM now, its "generally available" so long as you have broadband and about 300-400 bucks.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  22. Re:Windows 7 isn't even out yet by gig · · Score: 2, Informative

    > Someone subscribed to TechNet or MSDN is not going to be running Windows 7 on a Mac.

    Actually, I think you're 180 degrees wrong. If you're switching to the Mac for the hardware only, you're specifically running Windows, it's quite likely you're a Windows developer. There is MS Office Mac for business users, and creative people discover the Mac tools and never go back, and Web-oriented people get the real HTML 5 Web out-of-the-box on Mac OS, but if you program in C Sharp and .NET then you have to run Windows and Microsoft's tools. You can switch to Mac but you're keeping Windows.

    I've heard from a few different developer types that they were at conferences and they'd be at a table with 10 developer nerds and 10 MacBook Pros, but if you go around and look it was actually like 4 Mac OS, 2 Linux, and 4 XP. I heard from at least one Windows developer that he switched to Mac hardware so he could reboot in Mac OS X and make iPhone/iPod apps in addition to booting into Windows to make Win32 apps as before. He can't be the only guy who had that idea, it is a great one. And there is a blog called .NET Addict that has a Mac Pro grille in the masthead, the guy is using MacBook Pro and Mac Pro to do his MSDN programming and not only loving it, but sharing that far and wide.

    A key thing is that Apple has 90% market share in $1000+ PC's, they have taken the high-end PC market in the same way they took the music player market with iPod. Developers typically want high-end hardware because they're going to use it everyday and they want compiles to be fast and because they want to focus while they're working on the code they're writing, not troubleshooting their workstation (even if they have those skills.) And installing Windows from scratch is actually a feature for developers, they can install it all exactly how they want.