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Dogs As Intelligent As Average Two-Year-Old Children
Ponca City, We love you writes "The Telegraph reports that researchers using tests originally designed to demonstrate the development of language, pre-language and basic arithmetic in human children have found that dogs are capable of understanding up to 250 words and gestures, can count up to five and can perform simple mathematical calculations putting them on par with the average two-year-old child. While most dogs understand simple commands such as sit, fetch and stay, a border collie tested by Professor Coren showed a knowledge of 200 spoken words. 'Obviously we are not going to be able to sit down and have a conversation with a dog, but like a two-year-old, they show that they can understand words and gestures,' says Professor Stanley Coren, a leading expert on canine intelligence at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. Dogs can tell that one plus one should equal two and not one or three,' says Coren, adding that dogs 'can also deliberately deceive, which is something that young children only start developing later in their life.' Coren believes centuries of selective breeding and living alongside humans has helped to hone the intelligence of dogs. 'They may not be Einsteins, but are sure closer to humans than we thought.'"
Be interesting to see what a Wolf would be like as they tend to have a larger brain to body mass ratio.
And a 2 year old is pretty damn smart!!
I foresee in my magic eight ball... In a not so distant future... dog answering help desk call, giving us good support. It's true, they are the man's best friend !
...my dog is a lot like Einstein, in that her hair goes everywhere and she refuses to accept quantum mechanics.
Just because you sold your soul to the devil that needn't make you a teetotaler. --The Devil and Daniel Webster
I've suspected this for a while, which is why I get especially worked up over people who get their jollies tormenting and abusing animals.
It's basically like abusing a child, and is just as sick.
'They may not be Einsteins, but are sure closer to humans than we thought.'
I don't think so. You're comparing a fully-mature animal to one in its infancy. We've long known that animals can learn behaviors that mimick that of humans -- in some cases, their physiological parts are superior to humans (the eyes of a hawk, for example). But to say they're "closer to humans than we thought" -- that's a quotable designed to be eaten up by the popular press because a lot of people are dog lovers and will jump at the chance to say "Aw, see, old charlie here is almost human smart!"
I'm sorry to say that, no, Charlie is still a dog. A creature that has spent several thousand years being domesticated by humans -- I'd damn well expect it to be able to emulate certain kinds of human behavior and show types of intelligence other animals do not, that's exactly what domestication is supposed to do. But a dog does not have near-human intelligence. It doesn't even have remotely human intelligence -- it has simply learned behaviors that we can understand and manipulate to a far greater degree than other animals.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
One test was that the subject was offered a treat inside a cage -- a banana pellet for the ape, a Gummy Bear candy for the human child -- an a kind of toothed rake to retreive the treat.
In each case, the rake was handed to the subject tooth-side down, and the teeth were to widely spaced to make and headway retrieving the treat. In each case the subject, a chimp and a 2-year-old human, raked away to no effect.
Then the experimenter turned the rake over and demonstrated how the treat could easily be retrieved using the flat end of the rake. Then the rake was returned to the subject with the tooth-side-down position of the rake.
The ape went back to raking away to no effect. With respect to the human 2-year-old, however, not only did the 2-year-old achieve 1-trial learning that the flat side of the rake was the effective way to get the Gummy Bear candy, when the 2-year-old was shown this technique, the 2-year-old laughed out loud, as if to say, "Oh, that's cheating, but if cheating is allowed, I am certainly going to do it."
What I figure was the role of the laughter and the sense that the rake experiment was a joke is this: humor is connected with this type of reasoning and this type of learning. A lot of learning is a matter of figuring out the exception to the rule, what has to be un-learned in order to effect an outcome. So not only did the 2-year-old learn in one trial, the 2-year-old developed a mental model of how the rake was supposed to operate and then made a conceptual correction to that model, and thought the whole thing to be funny.
I don't know the equivalent experiment with a dog as dogs lack the hand dexterity of humans and apes, but the minute I see a dog respond with 1-trial learning to a related situation, only then will I believe any claim as to a dog have the intelligence of a 2-year-old human.
That would probably be a mistake; I'd expect most dogs to vote Democratic.
Cats, on the other hand, would be overwhelmingly Republican.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
...my dog is a lot like Einstein, in that her hair goes everywhere and she refuses to accept quantum mechanics.
There's no reason we can't have a Schrödinger's dog too. Try it. Whether the dog survives or not, it'll have a far greater appreciation of quantum mechanics. Note: Do not put Schrödinger dog with Schrödinger cat. Experimental results may be random.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
does this additional knowledge mean that we will end up with dogs in other support roles?
How about a "Thinking Brain" dog for some of the terminally stupid people I have to deal with? The blind and deaf already use dogs, why not stupid people? Are you a stupid person who can't make a decision in the fast food restaurant? Dog orders you a cheeseburger. Are you so stupid that you can't decide if you should turn left or right at the stoplight? Dog tells you to turn left. Are you a dumb pedestrian who stops in the middle of the intersection to answer their cell phone? Dog drags you to the curb.
This would be GREAT!
John
If you are child-less, and thus have little patience for the little monsters, you'd say that dogs *can* be as stupid and annoying as those screaming spoiled rotten two year old brats at McDonalds. Please, parents, stick them in that soundproof screaming chamber area with the playground equipment!
But there is some breakthrough work being done on training 2-year-olds to sniff for bombs and drugs.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
No one needs academic elitists from Canada telling them their own sons and daughters are no smarter than an average dog. My husband Todd showed me this article while we were playing with Trig, and I sat down and I thought to myself, boy, what's the world coming to, that if you could equate a puppy's intelligence with that of an unborn child, you could give the puppy a post-birth abortion?
And I'm telling you, when you put forth Americans in front of these scientists on Obama's health care panel, and they put your baby and an Ivy League-educate golden retriever on the scale, who do you trust they'll declare the victor? This is dystopian, this is an outrage, this is what we must fight, America!
--Sarah Palin
http://www.livescience.com/animals/090808-smart-dogs.html
The average two year old understands 250 words? My two year old and all her same age friends know far far more than that. I also don't think that you get cleverer as you get older. You just learn more.
Well 200 words is plenty to say "Hello IT, have you tried turning it off and on again?" and "Are you sure its plugged in?"
I have seen some nasty, aggressive dogs. They tend to have nasty, aggressive owners. I have seen some nasty, aggressive children. They tend to have nasty, aggressive parents.
I have also seen well-behaved children and dogs. Guess what their parents are like?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
This makes me wonder how aborting a human life far less developed than a toddler can still draw so much debate, while relatively little concern is shown for the thousands of lost lives of unwanted pets euthanized every year in animal shelters.
Beagles are not Border Collies. I'm glad you enjoy your pets (and I'm not dumping on them).
There is a reason Border Collies, English Shepards, etc, are the norm on farms and ranches. They are quite clever and I think you would have to keep one to appreciate the difference.
I also have a Rhodesian Ridgeback just to keep the proselytizing missionaries away. Sweet but intimidating. I think he would quit breathing if it weren't for autonomous body functions, yet I have met owners who think theirs is borderline canine Einstein. No way.
I see you've called Dell's customer support then? Oh, wait... you said "good support"... sorry my mistake.
So a dog goes into the telegraph office and submits his message for transmission: "Woof woof woof woof woof woof woof woof woof."
The telegraph operator says, "We normally charge by the word, but if you like, I'll give you the tenth 'woof' for free."
To this, the dog responded, "But that, my good chap, would make no sense at all!"
The CB App. What's your 20?
So you can pay a dog to do your homework?
No, only to eat it.
Donate free food here
The statement "as intelligent as a 2 year old child" implies the ability to perform on par with a 2 year old with average mental abilities, or another child of different age with greater or lesser abilities, on an appropriate test of "intelligence" such the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (Revised).
Since those expected responses which are not verbal are written, obviously they'll score 0.
Since cognitive science seems to get further from a definition of intelligence the harder it tries to pin it down, even using the word is a problem. I quit believing in the concept when I saw a retarded child perform successfully (though slower, and with more effort)in a class of gifted children mostly because of the attention offered in the situation.
"Can perform successfully tests of some functions and display some cognitive abilities which when given to humans can be accomplished by more than half of 2 year old children" might be acceptable.
Besides, I've seen some dogs that were too stupid to live. And I've run and howled with some that I've trusted alone with my baby children. Who cares how smart a person they'd make? What matters is how smart a dog they are, and the smartest rarely need things like arithmetic.
For that matter, how smart is a 2 year old human on a dog scale of "intelligence"? After all, that's 21 in dog years. It's not 7 to 1, it's 10.5 to 1 for the first two, then 4 to 1 after.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
The simplest possible explanation: Your dog is the antichrist.
Coren believes centuries of selective breeding and living alongside humans has helped to hone the intelligence of dogs.
Yet it is also well established that both cats and dogs have smaller brains relative to body size than their wild counterparts. This being a result of selective breeding which may select for more juvenille traits. I'm quite sure a wild big cat or wolf raised carefully in captivity would do just as well as their domesticated cousins, and there is reason to believe they may do better.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
I must concede that cats are clearly Republicans. They are intensely conservative and set in their ways. They think that everybody should conform to their view of social norms. They're intensely territorial and a bit smug about it. They like hunting, big families, and the right to bear arms. And they don't like to share unless it's their idea. And trust me - I really do love cats - I'm just telling it like it is.
"Cats, on the other hand, would be overwhelmingly Republican."
But of course - who do you think funds the Cato Institute?
You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
Considering the Pranknet story, I'm going to have to say that dogs are smarter than a lot of TWENTY-two-year-olds.
--- Asking inconvenient questions for over 30 years...
Dogs might understand about as many words and gestures as the average two year old, but I don't believe they're as intelligent. At least not according to our definition of intelligence. My two year old (27 months) asked me last night, "Why are balls round?". Then followed up with "is the moon a ball?". You can teach a two year old to communicate, but they come up with those questions on their own. Would a dog ask questions like that if it could communicate with us? I doubt it, but maybe I'm wrong.
Dogs go on Slashdot, and cats go on 4chan. What, you didn't really think that LOLcats were the work of actual people?
You just got troll'd!
I was with them until they ranked breeds by intelligence.
What they're not telling you (and most of the +3 posts on this thread would indicate that the posters know little of professional dog breeding) is the pedigree of the subjects under test.
I was especially disappointed when they chose to rank the Afghan Hound as one of the "dumber" breeds; which is sorting is such a human trait.
Those who know the history of the Afghan in Europe are aware the breed descends from a very shallow gene pool. Find the history of the breed written in the 19th century by "those who would be king" (Google books maybe?) to read the description of just how intelligent those imperialists found the long-haired variety.
I don't have a whole lot to add to the meat of the discussion, but thought some might be amused by the following way my dog (a Boston Terrier) tries to "deceive." He sometimes wants to go for a longer walk than I do, so when we're getting close to home he pulls in the opposite direction. Of course, I say No, sharply, and direct him home. But he's also learned that if he needs to poop, I'll let him. So, nearing home, he heads for a tree and goes into a crouch, watching me all the time. When he thinks I'm sufficiently deceived, he stands up (without pooping of course -- he didn't really have to go) and starts pulling off in the opposite direction. He seems to think I'll have forgotten I'm actually headed home. I find this quite hilarious.
Someone else mentioned that when you point, a dog will look where you are pointing whereas a wolf will look at the finger. Some months ago I read an article about research on autism and its association with "mirror neurons" -- neurons (postulated, I think) that are responsible for appropriate mimicry: what it is that makes a baby imitate your facial expression when he can't see his own face in the mirror. Autistic children lack this ability, apparently, as do chimpanzees. It was also mentioned in the article that chimpanzees, unlike dogs, but apparently like wolves, will look at the finger (and not where you are pointing) when you point.
Cow evolution has been driven by unnatural selection for a long time. We've sculpted the animal to be naturally docile. If the dumb tail waggin variety are more likely to reproduce curtesy of our intervention, then you get a race of big dumb cows.
Less interestingly but more practically - it's not like a cow ever came back from the slaughterhouse to warn the rest of them!
What evidence do you have that cows march happily off to the slaughterhouse? Or that tail wagging in a cow means they are happy? When I was a kid, we raised some "beefers". We had one slaughtered and the other cried and behaved oddly -- the first cow was butchered near the barn, not at some far away place.
Personally, I just don't eat mammals anymore. I'm not sure where the "too smart eat" line is, but I've quit eating in my own class at least. Birds concern me to some degree, but crustaceans don't. Anyway, if it has a neocortex, I won't eat it.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Have you ever tried to teach a 2 year old to sit?
You clearly have no understanding of how evolution works.
Evolution isn't some "magic memory" passed on magically from one cow that dies to all other cows that are born after that. Evolution is the result of tiny mutations that for one reason or another have been continuously passed down from generation to generation. All of the cows that have "realized" that they were about to be slaughtered (not that they would be capable of that kind of realization in the first place) have also been... well, slaughtered.
Not that this study had much to do with evolution. It just has to do with dog's current levels of intelligence.
Crows or other corvids are very smart too (smarter than chimps in some ways). Anyway, given the sorts of stuff they eat, it's probably a good idea to not eat them ;).
Octopuses are also quite smart. At least one seem to have rather poor memory though - forgets after a few days and has to relearn stuff.
http://www.pitara.com/discover/earth/online.asp?story=111
As a doctor, you should probably know that you can't have pups with a dog, neutered or not. Don't let that stop you from trying though.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
People are not comfortable with eating intelligent animals and cows are intelligent enough, the fact that they trust the people who raise them to lead them off for slaughter isn't a sign of stupidity. Your average small child would be as trusting.
Funny thing is we tend to reward animals that escape the slaughter house with a reprieve. Is this just due to a natural support of the underdog or perhaps that the animal will know whats coming and will freak out and alert the other animals to whats going on.
Chickens tend not to show the same survival instinct but being raised in a cage unable to move or see daylight is it any wonder they tend to just sit there when accidentally released early from a cage. death might seem a welcome release from such a poor quality of life.
An interesting thing is the difference between an animal and meat, it seems for most people once an animal has had its head removed it transitions from being an animal and some emotional involvement, to becoming meat something to eat.
I'm not a vegetarian by any means and I enjoy meat and fish, you can't beat eating fish that you have caught and prepared yourself (assuming you master deboning).
Some people think its cruel to do your own slaughtering and butchery, it could be if you didn't ensure a rapid and as pain free as possible death for the animal. It's not a good thing that people are divorced from the reality of how meat is produced because it means low standards of care get applied to animals while they are alive in the name of cheap meat production and maximum profit.
Honestly if you choose to eat meat you should choose to be informed about its production.
It's funny but a lot of racism seems to flow in the same way, denigrating intelligence, emphasizing small differences in order to treat people as less than human. Perhaps if there was a better understanding of killing and cruelty there would be less of it in the world.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
The cat doesn't care what you think because, in effect, like a human psychopath the relevant bit of brain is too small. This, btw, is why neurologists prefer cats for experiments. The results aren't affected by how the cat feels about its handler today, or the sudden dislike it's taken to the researcher.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."