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Microsoft Holding 'Screw Google' Meetings In DC
Runaway1956 writes "Microsoft's chief Washington lobbyist has been convening regular meetings, attended by the company's outside consultants, that have become known by some beltway insiders as 'screw Google' meetings, DailyFinance has learned. The meetings are part of an ongoing campaign by Microsoft, other Google opponents, and hired third parties to discredit the Web search leader, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the matter. 'Microsoft is at the center of a group of companies who see Google as a threat to them in some combination of business and policy,' said a source who requested anonymity to avoid retribution. 'The effort is designed to make Google look like the big high-tech bad guy here.'"
can't say I'm surprised.
Pathetic. You're going DOWN, microsoft.
I've been holding some pretty good 'screw Microsoft' meetings for years in the toilet.
Nothing new here...
Joking aside; a little farther and these meetings could been seen as illegal collusion.
Anyone else reading "other third parties" as "politicians"?
...the kettle called to say "YOU"RE BLACK".
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
Really?
Microsoft and its cronies are wasting time. They forget that it all comes down to what people want to use, choice in this case.
I just did a fresh install of xp and ie8. It was maddening trying to set google as my default search engine AND to remove bing from the list. It was definitley setup up in way to make it unintuitive.
http://p8ste.com - Web based Clipboard
Actually, you know, I'm kinda getting nostalgic. In ye goode olde days, even just a "Microsoft exists" would generate a flurry of pure hate, and let's not even get into news of such obviously evil behaviour as offering a free CLI version of their compiler. Now as of the time I've hit "Reply To This" were only 5 replies, and mostly moderate stuff. It hardly looks like the proper "screw Microsoft and the horse they rode in on" parties we used to hold :P
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Ballmer seen training a militia of chair-throwing monkeys...
All these competitors must be very desperate if they organize themselves instead of competing with one another. And I don't mean desperate as in "making less profit" or even "running at a loss", I mean desperate as in "about to be finished in the near future".
This is the best advertisement for Google I can imagine. It's basically Microsoft and there other competitors advising you to put your money on Google.
I don't think google needs help for that... I've been warning people about google for years and no one believed me until google started showing them their search records as a 'service'
Bing means disease in Chinese.
Just saying.
This is like the internal campaign Dell had going several years ago while I worked there, and I'm sure every company has something like that, even if it's only as a joke, or to improve employee morale.
Nothing to see here, move along.
I imagine there will be few chairs left in this meeting.
Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
Meh. Were I a Microsoft stockholder, I would sue them for malfeasance if they didn't exhaust every cost-effective, competitive resource available.
Every large corp. lobbies the government for market favoritism. Any large corp. that doesn't is screwing its shareholders.
The problem is that you can do this at all, when the government is supposed to regulate (i.e.: even out) commerce and promote the general welfare (i.e.: not pick winners and losers).
--
Toro
Scroogle Meetings?
Whoah! Looks like MS might be right on this one. After some detective work worthy of Sherlock Holmes, I have uncovered this.
...Google has been convening with other companies that see Microsoft as a threat and trying to lobby different Washington interest groups "Microsoft as a big bad technology company".
I.e. a practise otherwise discribed as a standard procedure of strategic competition in corporate America. You don't have to like it, but it's not exactly news. Catching them in the act of trying to bribe a congressmen/senators would be news.
In a competition, the playing field is level and the one who works the best or the hardest or the most efficient wins.
We need a new word for the kinds of "competitive behavior" we see where the focus isn't about making better stuff or providing better services, but is instead focused on bringing down the people around you. In competitive sports, there are rules against such behavior. We can't have ice skaters bashing in the knees of other ice skaters now can we?
Microsoft is very easy to criticize because they are very well focused on bringing the competition down instead of working to make themselves more competitive. They need to have their language license revoked when their describe their behavior as "competitive" and "innovative." The word "bully" comes to mind, but I fear it is too simplistic and doesn't adequately describe the depth of planning and focus demonstrated. Whatever the word, it needs to convey the abandonment of fair play principles of competition and the selfish and callous disregard for others in the damage they cause. Anyone know of a word that describes this sort of behavior? Perhaps a few from psychology text books might well fit in here somewhere.
That would make sense that at least one or two politicians (or their aids) would attend. But if they were to attend, would they be friend, foe or observer?
The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
"The effort is designed to make Google look like the big high-tech bad guy here." At least they're 'high tech' in contrast to Microsoft.
microsoft not only has dominance on the desktop & laptops, they also have damn near 100% market share in the EVIL department too.
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
All major corporations have strategic meetings about their main competition. Why is this so different just because its Mircosoft doing it?
Or is news really that slow today?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Upon a -fresh- install of IE8, you are -asked- what default search provider (and accelerator and a few other things) you want, and Google is in those lists.
I don't remember FireFox, Chrome, Safari -or- Opera presenting me with the option; and I should know, I installed them all just a few days ago on a desktop machine that I'm getting ready for a web designer (so he can easily test in each browser; older versions are in different VMs).
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/05/01/ie8-installation-the-user-is-in-control.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/05/09/ie-setup-experience-just-the-facts-and-the-screenshots.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/07/16/changes-to-ie8-s-first-run.aspx
Honestly, I know MS is probably just responding to industry/EU/customerbase pressure rather than doing things out of goodwill, but they -are- getting their stuff together.
I agree with you about that. It seems obvious that Microsoft would rather try to bash their competitors and hold them down until they drown than to compete on the merits. But they can't do it by themselves.
A previous poster described this as collusion. Conspiracy might be a better word, but that might be construed as a "theory" rather than something that was actually documented.
Now if Microsoft is having meetings with their competitors to take down Google, I have to wonder just how cooperative Microsoft really is. Given the level of paranoia exhibited by MS, anyone MS deals with is a potential threat to them. The vast majority of partners and collaborators with Microsoft have wound up either dead or permanently handicapped. I wonder if all of the attendees at those meetings have considered that trend. To see the trend, go here.
The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
Italy was invited.
The effort is designed to make Google look like the big high-tech bad guy here.
If your effort has widely become known as the "screw Google" meeting, it seems to me that you're doing a pretty bad job of it. Of course, this is DC... cash can easily substitute for credibility.
Like last year's prom queen spiking the punch. Maybe if she hadn't turned into a total bitch, people would still give a shit what she has to say.
Do you see what I did there?
It is a shame that Microsoft feels it is unable to compete in the marketplace, and now must walk the shadowy halls and back rooms of Washington DC in order to stay relevant.
I love the irony of holding regular smear meetings in order to make others look like the bad guy.
In other news... Slashdot holding 'screw microsoft' meeting for it's 7th consecutive year.
If BING was one of the attempts to "screw Google" then Microsoft are playing Pee Wee Morris to Google's Lassie.
Google doesn't even seem to see microsoft as competition.
Microsoft busts ass to try and outdo google at every turn. And google just ignores them and does what they were going to do anyway. Make things people want to use. And make it free.
I'm sure many people at google might have a 'screw microsoft' thought or two. But they're not wasting millions of dollars on it!
Google is on the verge of monopolistic powers... already have that in search. Being in control of search is much more scarier to me than in control of PC platforms. If you hate Microsoft, you should also hate/fear Google.
Journal
If there is enough money involved yes we'd do that.
Microsoft used to ignore DC until they got screwed over by the Clinton administration. The anti-trust judgment obtained by the Clinton justice department burst the tech bubble and caused the recession Bush inherited.
So now, yeah, they are in Washington trying to win that game, too.
Jeezuz, what is it with you Microsoft drones? Do you think that if you act like vitimised kittens for long enough that people will either take pity on you or believe you? You creeps have been playing the poor, hurt, innocent victim card for so long that I think the only people who take you seriously are the other anal, Microsoft dipshits who post the same, childish, boring crap, no matter whether Microsoft has just released a free upgrade to Windows Explorer (yay) or screwed some partner or customer over again.
We get it, now fuck off.
We can't have ice skaters bashing in the knees of other ice skaters now can we?
I would watch ice skating if they did.
The new details about Microsoft's D.C.-based efforts to undermine Google shine a light on the role of third-party firms, funded by tech giants, that engage in activities such as astroturfing, corporate propaganda, and misinformation. Media reports have hinted at a "whisper campaign" undertaken by entities acting at Microsoft's behest to undermine Google, both with policymakers and the public.
Coupled with Microsoft's long standing campaign to influence social media discussions in technical forums, like this one. Instead of investing that money in making better products, we've come to the point where success has to include not only dominating the market, but influencing social media and the regulatory environment. It's almost like their operating system business is an afterthought for Microsoft these days. They're not about building better products as much as hanging on to their market share and putting down competition.
Remind me again why the artificial person that is a corporation deserves the same freedom of speech protections as an individual? Seems like they sort of have an unfair advantage already when it comes to getting their free speech packaged and distributed.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Gee, I wonder where all of these anti-trust concerns came from regarding Google? Gee, I wonder why Eric Schmidt and Arthur Levinson had to leave Apple's board? So, lame. And pathetic. I know some people will say that every company does this... And that's fine but it doesn't make it right. In fact it just makes MS look... lame and pathetic. Oh we can't compete let's lobby!
The time is not far off when all will realise that Google Earth is not simply the name of an application but our destiny !
Here's the procedures for the major browsers as I find them 'intuitively'; e.g. I'll double-click an item expecting a dialog of options to come up.. in lieu of that, or in the case of fields, I right-click the thing expecting a fly-out of options.
There might be shorter routes, but in that case they weren't very intuitive -to me-.
I had to cheat for FireFox's Address bar, doing a google search, to find out that setting was hidden in about:config .
=====
IE8
As above, but please note that it's the dropdown -next to- the search box, on the right of the magnifying glass.
=====
For the remaining exercises, let's try adding Bing to the others (for demonstration purposes - though I guess if you like Bing...), making it the default, and then removing it again.
=====
FireFox 3.5 (3.5.1) - 'Default' Search: Google
-----
Adding Bing
-----
1. Click on the drop-down arrow on the left hand side of the search field
2. Select "Manage Search Engines..."
3. Click on the "Get more search engines..." option
You will now be presented with the FireFox add-ons website. None of the top-listed options are the major search engines, and bing is nowhere to be found in page 1, so...
4. enter "Bing" in the search field
5. change the "within" dropdown to "Search Tools"
6. click the big green Search btton
7. the first result should be the official, Microsoft bing! team-supplied, search engine. Click on the Download Now button
8. click on Accept [the license] and Install (if you want, read the license first.. It's Ms-PL)
A "Add Search Engine" dialog will now pop up
9. Click the Add button. ( You can check the "Start using it right away" option if you want, but that won't make it the default. )
-----
Making Bing the default (while adding: n/a; from scratch only)
-----
FireFox doesn't really have a 'default search'. It will simply use whatever you have selected last in the search field.
One could argue, however, that any junk entered into the address bar, which leads to a search engine (guess which?), is akin to a default search engine. So to that point...
1. Enter "about:config" in the address bar.
1.5. If you haven't previous ignored the "This might void your warranty!" (what warranty would that be, Mozilla? Tongue-in cheek humor, eh?) warning, click the "I'll be careful, I promise!" button.
2. Double-click on the entry "keyword.URL" (scroll down, use filter, not counting that as a 'step')
3. Enter the string: "http://www.bing.com/search?q="
(For arbitrary engines, you'll have to figure out which part of the address is the keyword bit and make sure that's the last item, etc.)
4. Click the OK button
-----
Removing Bing
-----
1. Click on the drop-down arrow on the left hand side of the search field
2. Select "Manage Search Engines..."
3. Select the Bing item
4. Click on the Remove button
5. Click OK
=====
=====
Google Chrome 2 (2.0.172.43) - Default Search: Google ( XD )
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Adding Bing
-----
1. Right-click on the address/search bar
2. Choose "Edit Search Engines..." from the context menu
3. Click the Add button
4. Enter as Name: "Bing"
5. Enter as URL: "http://www.bing.com/search?q=%s"
(For arbitrary engines, you'll have to figure out which part of the address is the keyword bit and make sure to place a "%s" in the place where the keyword would occur.)
6. Click the OK button
7. Click the Close button
-----
Making Bing the default - from having added it
-----
( do not follow step 7 above )
7. Click the "Make Default" button.
8. Click the Close button.
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Making Bing the default - from scratch
-----
1. Right-click on the address/search bar
2. Choose "Edit Search Engines..." from the context menu
3. Select "Bing"
4. Click the "Make Default" button.
5. Click the Close button.
-----
Removing Bing
-----
1. Right-clic
VICTORIA, Steampunk Britain, Thursday -- An all-out Microsoft rocket attack on Google's London office yesterday caused a small fire from a ruptured gas cylinder, a reminder of the browser and search engine wars and Microsoft's overwhelming might.
The six-story-tall Microsoft mecha, approaching from the direction of Victoria Station, unleashed an all-out attack, belching amusing farts of smoke from its Zune HD assault flamethrowers, before halting with an E74 error and collapsing onto the top of the building, where Google employees were enjoying their regular Thursday afternoon barbecue roasting a Snow Leopard on a spit.
Four fire engines and twenty firefighters in hazmat suits were sent out after reports of Vista fumes in the area.
The attack came a day after a Microsoft suicide car bomber killed seven cockroaches and gave himself a papercut when his car computer bluescreened. Microsoft disclaimed responsibility, asserting it was a completely independent suicide commando who only coincidentally happened to be in the pay of their PR agency.
The BBC has reported Microsoft's complete victory in the battle, with extensive Zune downloads in Silverlight format of the victorious Seattle Revolutionary Army in action.
Illustration: The destruction of the Isengard data centre
http://rocknerd.co.uk
... from Google's business.
Microsoft has to get more money for share holders. Google's money sources are better than their "original" money coming from Windows selling.
Do you own shares from Microsoft or Google? If both, which one's shares you perefer?
In Capitalist West, MS screws Google in front of you.
In Soviet USA, AT&T, Apple, Google, MS and the NSA screw you.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Take a chill pill, fanboy. Yes, I get it. In your little world, everyone who isn't at Microsoft's throat, must be some kind of "Microsoft drone" and "acting like victimized kittens".
Meanwhile, the rest of us have better things to attach our self-esteem to, than to either corporation. You know, actual personal achievements, not "I barked for my corporate master like a good doggy today." I swear some people should have been four-legged.
Briefly: rest assured that some of us are merely amused at the whole butthurt fanboy act, rather than being pro-Microsoft. But, then again, if you had enough brain to understand that, you wouldn't be a fanboy in the first place.
But, yes, thanks for amply illustrating my point. It's exactly that kind of idiotic fanboy foaming at the mouth act that I was referring to.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
When Linux rose in the server market Sun went down, now Linux is rising in the Desktop market and Microsoft fears same path as Sun.
Well, if the median age _dropping_ has caused more professionalism and less butthurt fanboy acts, I guess that's a heck of a vindication of teenagers. You know, since the stereotype about 14 year olds is the other way around :P
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
In ye goode olde days, even just a "Microsoft exists" would generate a flurry of pure hate
The problem with this was that the two minutes hate often didn't last much more then two minutes, and was a bit repetitive and superficial. For recidivist agents of spiteful malevolence such as Microsoft, even a detailed two decades hate would not suffice.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
In competition No the playing field isnt always level, some teams are way better than others and even the good guys will lose quite often BUT
at least everyone in theory is playing by the same rules.
Google is winning because people like their search engine, it works and even 6 year olds can and do use it.
Microsoft often won, and they got in trouble for this, because they owned many of the playing fields and made the rules and told the teams they sponsored about hidden ways of getting an edge on their fields that werent in the rulebook.
I dont really care if Microsoft is selfish as long as they play by the rules and make good products...because Microsoft does make some very good products. Microsoft Publisher is a very good product, there is nothing in open source that comes even close.
Microsoft, we have taught you well.
Who's Microsoft? I only use Linux & OS X. I thought virus plagued bloatware was out of fashion? :)
Why is this so more newsworthy than the continuous "screw microsoft" efforts that go on continuously in this industry?
when you say 'Click' do i right-click again?
(can't tell you how many times i've been asked that during a 'support' call...)
While simple for people who can bounce between operating system and program interfaces but MOST people don't even (our mac friends inc(de)luded), don't even know there is such a thing as a right click - let alone what it is for.
While you agonizingly make your point, the reality is that FF & Chrome users DON"T WANT TO USE BING. If Bing is a tool it is the one in the bin at the grocery store as you wait in line to checkout. Or in the 100 yard long aisl to checkout at Fry's.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
Everyone regularly holds meetings with the theme 'screw X'.
Democrats regularly hold meetings with the theme 'screw Republicans'. I thought that didn't make them evil, or?
..typing this as I'm going, so technically the results weren't in yet when I wrote that subject line.
After uninstaling IE8 (back to IE7), making sure Google is -not- one of the providers in IE7 already (in case the IE8 update is a smartypants and transfers that over), and going through the rebootings..
- Downloading IE8 ( from www.microsoft.com - don't want the non-English version installed through automatic updates )
MD5 (after saving): fae1f096b5e97209f3c5c3badb5db7cf *IE8-WindowsVista-x86-ENU.exe
filesize: 13,944,160 bytes
- execute installer
- "Do you want to run this file?" yup, sure do, Run .. machine begins reboot process, stating "Configuring updates: Stage 2 of 3 [...]." in the Windows Vista style screen, machine actually reboots, Vista starts back up.. "Configuring updates: Stage 3 of 3 [...]", login ..
- "Welcome to Windows Internet Explorer 8". Typical 'welcome' screen. Options: Next, Cancel. I choose Next.
- EULA. Options: "printable version" link, "I accept" and "I decline". I choose "I accept".
- "Get the latest updates." "This will install updates for Windows and Internet Explorer to help protect your computer against security threats." Options: "Install updates" checkbox (checked by default), "Learn more about updates online" link, Back, Next and Cancel. I choose to disable the "Install updates" option, and click Next.
- "Installing Windows Internet Explorer 8...". Lots of little status updates, a progress bar that's not a progress bar (activity bar? marquee bar?).
- "Internet Explorer installation is complete" "You must restart your computer before using Internet Explorer 8 to ensure that all files are updated." Options: "Restart now (recmmended)" and "Restart Later". I choose "Restart now"
- double-click on Internet Explorer icon
Internet explorer seems to start up as usual, but then..
- "Welcome to Internet Explorer 8" sub-window, "[...]New features like search suggestions retrieve information as you type, and Accelerators let you preview online services just by pointing your mouse at them." Options: "Learn about these new features and how to manage their settings" link, "Read the Internet Explorer Privacy Statement online" link, "Next" and "Ask me later". I choose "next".
- "Turn on Suggested Sites" "Do you want to discover websites you might like based on websites you've visited?". Options: "Yes, turn on Suggested Sites", "No, don't turn on", (privacy statement link on all these pages, I guess), "Back", "Next" (greyed out until an option chosen), "Cancel". I choose "No" and "Next"
- "Choose your settings" "Before you get started, do you want to:". Options: "Use express settings:" 'Search provider: Bing' and further defaults, "Choose custom settings", Back, Next (greyed out - must make a choice) and Cancel. I choose "Choose custom settings" and "Next"
- "Choose a default search provider" "Search providers enable you to search for information on the Internet. Your current default search provider is Bing" (taken from IE7, I think). Options: "Keep my current default search provider" "Show me a webpage after setup to choose more search providers", Back, Next (greyed out, yadda), Cancel. I choose "Show me a webpage" and "Next"
- "Search Provider Updates", I'll skip these bits mostly as they don't apply to the issue at hand. "No, I don't want to download updates", "Next"
- "Choose your Accelerators". "Turn off all Accelerators", "Next"
- "Turn on SmartScreen Filter". "Turn off SmartScreen Filter", "Next"
- "Change your default browser". "No", "Import settings" unchecked, "Next"
- "Compatibility Settings". "No", "Finish"
A new tab opens at this point. "Add Search Providers to Internet Explorer"
- I click on the Google option.
- "Do you want to add this search provider?", a dialog box asks. Options: "Make this my default search provider", "Use search suggestions from this provider", "Add" and "Cancel". I choose "Make default", "Use", and "Add".
Done.
"Default Search" was set to Bing in the Express Install because IE7 had it set to Bing. If I had left Google sticking around, I would have had "Default Search: Google" in the Express Install, too.
Well it wasn't intended as a tech support manual. I daresay if you ask *some* people to right-click a button, they'll move the cursor on the right-hand side of the button and click it using the left mouse button. :)
Also.. the left mouse button is the on that is usually on the top, and not on the left -side- of the mouse (as some mice have buttons there).
We can keep this up all day - I'm sure you got the post just fine
"While you agonizingly make your point, the reality is that FF & Chrome users DON"T WANT TO USE BING." ;)
I used Bing as an example - I could have said AltaVista, or Baidu (hi China), or The Pirate Bay for all I care.
Just because Google is, by a huuuuuuuuuuuge margin, the most popular Search engine, and is the default search engine for all of the other major browsers (none, other than Google, of which are owned by any company that also happen to make a search engine), doesn't take away that the procedures in other browsers can also be a little... daunting, at times (if not just completely impossible).
If you're saying "well nobody wants to use any other search engine anyway, and those who do - well it's okay for them to suffer the pains"... right-o then
This is an excellent post, but let me provide an alternative explanation for Opera 10.00 (not sure if it works in 9, but it probably does...):
1. Navigate to www.bing.com
2. Right-click on search element and select "Create Search"
3. Enter a keyword. (since bittorrent is gone in Opera 10, I just select b by default)
4. Expand the window with the "Details >>" button
5. Tick the dialog boxes next to "Use as default search engine" and "use as Speed Dial search engine as appropriate" and click OK
6. The next tab you open will have a Bing search bar.
====
I do believe this is the simplest way to add a search to any browser. I may have expanded my steps more than the OP, though.
Just tested - yep, works in 9 as well.
That's -very- nifty - thanks for the heads-up - but to loop it back to this discussion... is it intuitive?
e.g. if you hadn't heard of it, or happened to spot it while e.g. copying/pasting into any field (as apparently it adds this for -any- text form field.. which makes it very powerful, though nonsensical for many fields), would you have expected that to be the way you -could- add a search engine?
My post was more expanded, actually, counting any reasonable interaction... for this, it would have been..
1. go to website
2. right-click on search field
3. choose Create Search...
4. enter a keyword
5. click OK
or
5. click "Details >>"
6. Check the "Use as default search engine"
7. Click OK
Again, though, that's an awesome feature. Must head on over to FF Add-ons to see if there's an FF version of this.
oh, silly me. I guess that would be the "Add a Keyword for this Search..." option.. I'd already forgotten about that. Although it technically doesn't add it as an option in the drop-down, but only through a keyword prefix in the address bar (probably why I'd already forgotten). /nokarma
M$. WTF are they crying about?
Ever tried switching users from M$ Office to something else? It's impossible, costs too much, etc,..
Ever tried convincing IT managers from switching from that horrible SharePoint crap to something else? Not a chance...
Switching search engines is easy, c'mon M$, stop being such little bitch..
You're doing things the hard way...
To add Bing, you just visit www.bing.com and click the link in the upper-right that says "Add Bing to your browser." (Actually, I'm not sure what browsers this supports, but at least IE and Firefox. I've done it.)
Comment of the year
Playa hatas!
We need a new word for the kinds of "competitive behavior" we see where the focus isn't about making better stuff or providing better services, but is instead focused on bringing down the people around you. In competitive sports, there are rules against such behavior. We can't have ice skaters bashing in the knees of other ice skaters now can we?
Microsoft is very easy to criticize because they are very well focused on bringing the competition down instead of working to make themselves more competitive. They need to have their language license revoked when their describe their behavior as "competitive" and "innovative." The word "bully" comes to mind, but I fear it is too simplistic and doesn't adequately describe the depth of planning and focus demonstrated. Whatever the word, it needs to convey the abandonment of fair play principles of competition and the selfish and callous disregard for others in the damage they cause. Anyone know of a word that describes this sort of behavior? Perhaps a few from psychology text books might well fit in here somewhere.
War?
The requested URL
Microsoft can't bring out anything to compete with Google. It fails in search, fails in consumer electronics (Other than the XBox, but they are unreliable).
It has had an unpopular Windows launch, competition from Apple in the computer market and phones.
They're a sore loser, their empire can't last forever. Perhaps if they were nicer people and spoke to their competitors instead of trying to blitz them off the face of the planet then they might come across as people that you want to buy from or work with?
Gone are the days (if they ever had been) when competition was based on the production of superior goods and services, i.e. building a better mouse trap. Now, advantage in the marketplace is gained by degrading the competition thhrough advertising and public relations ploys. Meanwhile, the actual products and services remain stagnant and even become inferior.
Who is to blame? The big corporations like Microsoft?
I would claim they are only partly at fault. The other side to the free eneterprise equation is the consumer, and in this age of ignorance and idiocy an informed consumer base does not exist allowing the conglomerates to ply their dirty tricks without repercussion. An educated consumer is always the ultimate check and balance, but in this day, the absence is quite conspicuous.
How about anti-competition?
Whatever the word, it needs to convey the abandonment of fair play principles of competition and the selfish and callous disregard for others in the damage they cause. Anyone know of a word that describes this sort of behavior? Perhaps a few from psychology text books might well fit in here somewhere.
How about Machiavellian?
You wouldn't mind answering a simple question, would you? Are you a neocon, or a republican? Wait - scratch that. The question is better phrased as, Are you a rabid neocon, or a foaming at the mouth republican?
Dear sir, while your gentlemanly approach is appreciated by those with fully function brains, I fear your liberal form of criticism is lost on this pug. --As I strongly suspect the man is simply barking mad. Or a mangy troll.
-FL
For Opera
1. Open bing.com
2. Right Click on search box and select Create Search
3. Click on details and select use as default search engine
4. Click OK
While we're here, does anyone know any reason for believing Google *is* evil? I ask people on occasion, but they're never able to point out anything rational, they just point into the darkness and tell me what *might* be out there...
They're called Anti-Competitive Practicies, they're at times illegal in most western countries, Microsoft was found guilty of them in the US, and the US government rolled over and did nothing because "[some] advocates of laissez-faire capitalism (such as Monetarists, some Neoclassical economists, and the heterodox economists of the Austrian school) reject the term, seeing all "anticompetitive behavior" as forms of competition that benefit consumers." Feel free, especially, to read the part about "natural monopolies" and consider how many Republicans are so inclined to end regulation.
Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
We can't have ice skaters bashing in the knees of other ice skaters now can we?
So, you've never heard of Tonya Harding, Jeff Gilooly and Nancy Kerrigan, have you?
Now we know where they are when they aren't in their screw the customer meetings ;-)
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
I'm not in a position to know what high level strategy meetings Google holds and with who so just because I'm not privy to them, doesn't mean I assume they can't be happening (or would be shocked if I found out that they were). After all, given that Google is clearly not run by idiots, then it's implausible to think that they don't have meetings to plan how they'll take profit away from Microsoft. And if they did have such meetings, and somebody somewhere decided to call it a "screw Microsoft" meeting, then how would that be different to what we're seeing now, except that the actors would be different. Google throws plenty of money around in Washington, hiring former senators, lobbying firms and sons of politicians. What do you think that money goes toward? It's not buying office supplies, it's buying the "friendships" of people. There's a word for that, and the word smells as bad whether its Google or Microsoft footing the bill.
For someone who claims not to know what Google is doing, you sure claim to know a lot about what Google is doing.
Can you get me a copy of Windows 7 on your employee discount?
The damn basketcase of a division E&D just posted a 31 million dollar lost last quarter thanks to the Xbox fiasco and other turds of products they put out.
E&D isn't 'mitigating' anything.
Since when do I as a citizen care about stockholders? I care about me!
Right. but I would refrain from using words like "conspiracy" or "collusion", anything which paints this as criminal so quickly. Businesses can form alliances. They do form alliances against other businesses, and historically consumers and regulators have allowed this. Microsoft is paranoid, but so is any highly successful company that's being threatened by game-changing competitors. It's clear Google is a different kind of competitor, otherwise Microsoft would have been able to deal with Google sooner.
These meetings could very well be the stuff of movies, men in trenchcoats meeting at the docks at midnight to discuss putting a hit on Google; OR they can be one of a hundred strategy meetings that competitors in a common industry hold together annually. Until I see Ballmer tossing molotov cocktails, I'm just going to assume that this was an ordinary business meeting with donuts and bad coffee.
We need a new word for the kinds of "competitive behavior" we see where the focus isn't about making better stuff or providing better services, but is instead focused on bringing down the people around you.
Asshattery
No, I'm just doing things the browser-centric way, which is what the GP's post was about :)
What you mentioned works in Chrome as well - it should work for any browser that is compatible with OpenSearch. But that is search engine-centric, and a different topic (every search engine should offer such a link, for sure, as that would be -the- most intuivite method).
I think the terminology should draw (once again) from team sport. Google is "playing offense" and Microsoft is "playing defense"--in this case "defending a lead". Let the onlookers (i.e. slashdotters) decide whether play is clean or dirty. Personally, I find Microsoft's style of play old-fashioned and predictable and generally indicative of a dim future for the franchise. If they can't play good offense, it's only a matter of time before they lose.
Isn't this news a key part of the big "Screw Microsoft" campaign?
Who's chairing these meetings?
The problem isn't Google. Google got big by offering quality. Its standard Silicon Valley: Study, innovate, develop, and sell. Microsoft on the other hand, has been a pariah on the computer industry from two years prior to when Bill Gates sent his open letter to hobbyists till the present day. If the meetings are published or leaded n any way, Microsoft gets sued, (trillions in damages, and Google doesn't need any of microsofts software either). Google isn't evil. microsoft is evil. Its clear to all and sundry.
Labor unions have been targeting Wal-Mart for years. Why is it Ok for these trusts — entities existing solely to maintain and raise the price of their members' services — to target a business, instead of getting the taste of anti-trust laws?
Microsoft — even after partnering with Yahoo! — is far from holding a noticeable chunk of the search market. I'm pretty sure, they can do anything they want to, when challenging the dominant player, while the Google's hands are somewhat tied by the anti-monopoly legislation...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I would be inclined to agree with you. However, all the arm twisting that went on with the OOXML adoption process at the ISO level suggests that Microsoft may be willing to go a lot farther.
Did you read about the smear campaign against Peter Quinn in Massachusetts? How about the stacking of the committee responsible for approving and working on the defects in the OOXML "standard"? Maybe these events show no crime, maybe not.
Yes, it's probably true that these meetings aren't collusion or a conspiracy. But it might also be equally true that to MS, it isn't illegal until they get caught. I guess I can say that I take a fairly pessimistic view of Microsoft in light of their history, and that we just happen to disagree on how to describe these meetings.
The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
Whatever the word, it needs to convey the abandonment of fair play principles of competition and the selfish and callous disregard for others in the damage they cause.
That word is "war".
The word "bully" comes to mind, but I fear it is too simplistic and doesn't adequately describe the depth of planning and focus demonstrated.
Strategic bullying?
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
So, how do I know, that this topic is not a result of Google's evil anti-microsoft meeting?
Until that happens they've got no fucking chance.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I mean, for years the U.S. federal government has been holding 'screw microsoft' meetings over at the dept. of justice, *cough*
"and let's not even get into news of such obviously evil behaviour as offering a free CLI version of their compiler." - by Moraelin (679338) on Saturday August 29, @08:32AM (#29241739)
Dope dealers do "freebies", also, to get you "hooked" & on that 'crazy train'... & to tell the truth? They're completely evil, and in the worst way, by taking advantage of addiction & also human frailty/stupidity (which is NOT their fault though, on the latter, &, on the converse).
Do I feel MS does what you state, for those reasons? ABSOLUTELY. It makes good "business sense", & you see it all the way thru the entire 'business strata', from street levels thieves & thugs, up thru "KORPORATE AMERIKA", MS being an evidence thereof. Is that their SOLE reason to do that? No. I do not think so, but it does "figure in" as to why though imo.
Personally, I am SO surprised @ Microsoft lately: It truly bothers me in fact!
First off, I am a software dev that primarily does work around Win32 OS' over time (they're the most used is why imo & thus, provide the "greatest surface area" for potential employ would be my guess, & thusfar, it seems to have worked out that way for myself & others, & the numbers DO seem to "bear that out" in my experience @ least, so, "argue with the numbers"). In a way, I suppose MS has provided myself & others in this trade, a living, as well as nice tools for others to utilize. Still - this past year though, ever since VISTA came out & especially since 12/09/2008 (more on that below, details)? They're making me wonder.
1.) MS made things in the HOSTS file NOT WORK RIGHT (using 0 is no longer possible on VISTA, for a "blocking 'ip address'" in HOSTS files, as of the 12/09/2009 "Patch Tuesday" update & it continues in Windows Server 2008, as well as Windows 7)
2.) What was said @ rootkit.com regarding NDIS6 firewalls (as well as the entire 1 piece "WFP" design, vs. the older "greek phalanx"/"Zone Defense" methods used in previous builds of Windows) ->
----
PERTINENT QUOTE EXCERPT:
http://www.rootkit.com/newsread.php?newsid=952
"BTW, the firewalls based on NDIS v6, which was introduced in Windows Vista, are much easier to unhook and bypass."
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Now, however?
THIS type of slimy, "not man" like behavior?? IF this is the truth??? Microsoft is slipping, & BADLY... stuff like this, gets out. We've all seen in it "the real world", & although some of you may not find it disgusting, I do & I am quite certain, I can assure you, that others feel thus as well - Why???? I hate "weasels & rats" who gang up on others to try to "harangue" them, or take them down, is why & I am not so different from most folks really, just an ordinary human being here.
I hate it, because I feel that type of activity IS "the province of scumbags"... & I have never, EVER felt that way, about Microsoft (@ least the "microsoft that was" under the guidance of "King Billy" & guys like Jim Alchin (but, they're "gone w/ the dawn" now pretty much). You want to do better?
Listen to your customers, deliver what they WANT (ala NO MORE DRM & the things I noted above on HOSTS + WFP/NDIS6) - build that better moustrap as "King Billy" put it during the hearings of United States vs. Microsoft, & you win, and you do so, on honorable grounds one can be proud of... not this type of crap. That's what PUSSIES do.
APK
P.S.=> I honestly hope this is NOT the truth about MS though, most of all, on this "ganging up on GOOGLE" really... because I hate seeing GOOD things, go BAD! Reputation's important, & people are NOT stupid, they can "see through" stuff like this, & I do not think most folks like it so, MS: Guys, cut the crap, you do NOT need to go about things this way, period... apk
That is what a US federal judge call msft tactics.
this is how I change the search engine:
The text box that I type in the search elements has a big Google Icon and an arrow drawn next to it that generally means "selection box".
I click that icon and a list of 12 search engines turn up.
I select one of those.
Done.
Two-click change.