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Heart Monitors In Middle School Gym Class?
An anonymous reader writes "My son brought home an order form from his middle school. Apparently the 7th (his grade) and 8th graders are being asked (required?) to purchase their own straps for the heart monitors they're to wear during gym class. I know nothing yet of the device in question, but have left a voice-mail with the assistant principal asking him to call me so I may ask some questions about the program and the device. My tinfoil-hat concern is that the heart rate data will be tied to each child, then archived and eventually used for/against them down the road when applying for insurance, high-stress jobs, etc. 'I see you had arrhythmia during 7th grade pickle ball? No insurance for you' Has anyone heard of such a program, or had their child(ren) take part in it? Does the device transmit to the laptop the overweight gym teacher will be watching instead of running laps with the kids? Perhaps data is downloaded from the device after the class? Or am I just being paranoid? Thanks for any insight."
Are people really this paranoid?
They're probably just going to monitor heart rate to optimize aerobic exercise. At a certain point if your heart is beating too fast you'll end up in anaerobic mode.
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4736
That device isn't sophisticated enough to detect arrhythmias. It's heart rate, that's it. And if your child DOES have heart problems, sooner or later he or she will need to see a physician, who will be sure to inform the insurance company of the condition. What I am getting at is that there's no hiding from big brother anyways, so you might as well not worry about the minor infringements of privacy.
This would be a pretty good troll posting. Nicely done, if so.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Supplying that information to anyone else would be a violation of FERPA and HIPAA statutes. In fact, you should hope that they DO leak this information, because then you could sue their asses off.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
That's nothing!!!111
My kid was drugged and kidnapped, then had an explosive collar put around their neck, and dumped on an Island for a battle to the death.
Also, I think you're over reacting
If your child has heart problems, the device will alert staff. Or, they could be like this guy and be on trial for manslaughter.
http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/57036257.html
Lots of others like him too. They probably just want to avoid lawsuits.
It's a fucking middle school.
You had a good reason to consult the principal, if you don't get assurances in writing I wouldn't suggest that you allow the device to be used on your child.
Bruce Perens.
I vote paranoid. In all the places I've heard of this used its only used as a way for the students to collect their own information and to monitor themselves and their own heart rate. These devices are generally only heart rate monitors, in no way are they designed to notice an arrhythmia, and I've never heard of the data being collected in any way. Besides since they've asked you to purchase the equipment, you would be better able to know exactly what the capabilities of the model you were asked to buy then a bunch of random Slashdotters. Stop reading the site and do some research.
I saw something similar in a school where I teach. A research project involving a group of children was asked to participate after parental permission and notification and consent were given, detailing the purpose of the project, asking for permission for blood samples and a complete physical given to the child free of charge. The students were awarded gift certificates and other free items such as calculators, CD carriers, and water bottles. The heart monitors were worn during gym class only, and the heart rates were compared prior to and after exercised to measure heart rate resting times. The data was tied to numbers, not names, and was stored that way, so there were no long term consequences of the test, and all information was shared with parents. If you have not given your permission for this testing, I would certainly be upset as a parent that you have not been given any information as to the use of the data, or the confidentiality of the data.
A heart rate monitor is an incredibly valuable exercise aid.
You want to keep your heart going fast, but not TOO fast. Especially when coupled with treadmills and similar devices, you can stay in the target heart rate zone automatically as the device adjusts the load.
Likewise, its very useful in combination with a GPS-based bicycle computer: it really allows you to see where you are strong, where you are pushing yourself TOO hard, and when you really need to go harder.
Also, exercise heart-rate monitors aren't THAT precise: you can detect a gross abnormality like atrial fibrilation, but nothing subtle.
Test your net with Netalyzr
And homeschool. Unless you know about the government mind control devices implanted in all books. No-schooling is the safest. What the kids don't know can't hurt them. Plus with all their free time they can start digging and pouring cement to prepare for the invasion of the mole-men.
You're debating over the "privacy issues" or whatever.
Have you never stopped to wonder how stupidly ridiculous it is to ask a child to use heart monitors while performing basic physical activities? Soon they'll be outlawing sports for kids altogether as they raise the chance of physical injuries or whatever.
And the fact that they might be doing this just to avoid lawsuits is every more disturbing. American society is still one of the greatest around - and I'm not an American - but it seems it's clearly entering a downward-spiral these days. Silly lawsuits, silly laws, "intellectual property", GPS-tracked mileage taxes.
Seriously, you need to save your country.
This is beyond tinfoil. This is the among the stupidest things I've ever read as an ask slashdot. It just goes to show that parental instincts can turn intelligent humans into frightened, protective, stupid animals.
Submitter: A heart rate monitor is just a more accurate way of measuring someone's pulse. Have you ever exercised in your life? Did you put your fingers to your neck to check your pulse? This is the same thing, but with more accurate reading. And it beeps if your heart rate gets too high so you know to slow down.
Do some damn research and try to collect your brains back into your skull. The big scary world isn't trying to ruin your little darling by checking his pulse.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
is to remove manditory PE from the schools. Use it as time to learn music, or have a out of class work for an hour to help kids deal with homework.
Here is the thing:
30 minutes of half hearted PE exercise in a gym where you mostly goof off really doesn't provide anything. If the child isn't getting exercise at home and learning proper diets then this isn't going to help them.
Use the money for PE top provide a healthy lunch. No more pizza and cheap hot dogs.
Kids that are inclined to exercise will play at home. Many kids do not get an opportunity to learn music in the home, and just learning to play a little each day stimulates the brain.
no, I do not play music, but I wish all the effort schools spent to get me to wear shorts and sweat had been put into making learn an instrument..any instrument
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I sure as hell hope that Obama and the congress/senate outlaws denying insurance based on preexisting conditions. It seems like such an obvious abuse of the uneven patient - insurer relationship and an area sorely in need of regulation.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
"They don't teach you crap!" ---- As opposed to my younger sister's experience where she takes written tests in gym class? I was always under the impression that gym class existed in order to ensure that as we grow up we are making good habits in using our bodies-- not knowing the ins and outs of every retarded sport the world has come up with. (American football, anyone?)
Personally, I never had much use for the class. I don't really care to learn how to play basketball, soccer, "football". I prefer biking, kayaking, climbing, etc. as enjoyable ways to maintain a healthy body. The administration never seemed to understand that pre-college though.
I can't see any reasonable reason to be monitoring students' heart rate either-- Whatever their supposed purpose is, it only is a detriment to the ability of the gym class instructor to do their job-- and at worst will leave that individual (or group of people) even more lazy about their jobs.
I'd rather have incentives for people to work harder and do a better job than using technology to be lazy.
Why not ask the teacher what it's being used for? I can think of a couple of things.
Just find out what they are using it for. If you are really paranoid, get the principal to sign some slip saying that can only use it for those purposes.
Not everything has to be sinister. This doesn't seem like any real invasion of privacy. Would you be worried if the kids were running on fancy treadmills that already do this anyway?
Knowing your heart rate can be an important thing in exercising.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Have you ever been rejected for family medical coverage because your child had a urinary infection once, and a test to make sure it wasn't serious? I have.
Bruce Perens.
There is a secret device in there that is using WiFi (with it's own cancer-causing radio waves, too) to communicate directly to Obama's death panels in the (former) white house. They are still perfecting the reverse control that can kill your kid right on the spot the moment they figure out his health care will be too expensive, so I would really watch out if they insist on updating the device! Fortunately a tin foil hat pressed firmly around the kids head will stop the transmissions, and for extra security you can also get a surgeon to implant tin foil wrapped right around the kid's heart, too.
Seriously, this is obviously a heart-rate monitor like those in treadmills to measure the quality of aerobic exercise.
Do you have a kid? It is required at my sons school. Just in case a medical emergency arises and they need documentation forwarded to another physician or hospital. It is pretty standard on most emergency contact forms actually.
Half of writing history is hiding the truth.
Heart rate monitors cannot detect heart defects. They're simple pieces of athletic equipment that are used to get good aerobic exercise. I think it's great that PE is introducing kids to the concept.
One of the signs of paranoia is a tendency to spin fanciful tales off the slimmest of evidence...it's not to look up what these things are if you're not familiar.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I appreciate your concern, but honestly it's nothing to be worried about, millions of people around the world use heart rate monitors without any issue. I actually have to give kudos to your kids' school as well. Learning about proper anerobic/aerobic zones is pretty important when it comes to exercise. Further, be glad they're having your child purchase the strap, as opposed to using someone else's which could lead to ringworm, and a bunch of other gross fungal problems.
You think this bad? Sure now they are just monitoring the rate of your child's cardiopulmonary development. and perhaps worse yet, they are probably going to compare your child to all the other children based on this metric. But this is just the tip of iceberg! I know how these public schools work. In a few weeks time you'll get notice that they have also been tracking your child's mental and cognitive development!! And, per their M.O., comparing your child to all the other children. They'll probably even have your child get up in front of all the other children and perform some sort of demonstration or cognitive feat. I've even seen cases where they administer tests and enter the results into your child's permanent record. Let's just hope and pray that the laws of the land will prevent these so-called "tests" from falling into the hands of potential future employers. Or, god forbid, future high schools.
-whoa, I'm jones'ing for a sig right about now...
Particularly since if we did have government run health care, no one would be denied. You should be more worried that we don't get a health care bill passes and some how insurance companies would get this data. Then they would for sure not cover your child since it had a pre-existing condition.
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On the practical side, schools don't have any money for the necessities, so I doubt they'd spend any money on equipment to log heart rates of individuals. They're likely just going to use it to optimize physical training for each kid as much as possible. Look on the bright side: if your kid learns now to use a heart rate monitor, he might use one later in life for regular exercise and be overall healthier.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Isn't the purpose of a School to TEACH???
When it comes to monitoring heart rates in Gym Class, there are two ways to go about this
1) Teach them to take their own pulse, and they can learn a valuable skill to be used anytime
or
2) Use Heart Rate Monitors, therefore teaching the students to be peons to the capitalistic sale of gadgets that are only useful when they are present and work
I love gadgets as much as the next geek here on slashdot, but come on... without basic knowledge, how will the next generation be able to function without these tools.
.... this is as bad as the match classes that now teach use of a calculator, as opposed to teaching MATH
The heart rate monitor is actually a fun thing to have.
I usually only wear it when I'm on my bike, and I do find it quite fun to see just for how long I can keep my heart rate at 170+, 175+ and 180+. I'm 32, so my target should really be around 160, but I'm still in really bad shape, so I'm constantly above that if I want to feel like I'm doing something.
But when I started this back in June I could hit a peak of about 180 for maybe a minute before I'd feel like I was dying, and now I can hold 180+ for several minutes. My resting heart rate has dropped from about 80 (!!!) to roughly 65 as well.
I'm using this as a fun toy, and I honestly think that if approached properly in gym, you could get the disinterested kids more interested. If you're giving them grades in gym class (btw, wtf?), don't grade them on how well they play football or whatever, as that'll take away the bad players' motivation. Grade them on how well they've done. If you're already in great shape at the start of the school year and you don't improve, give them an A. If they start in great shape and end up in bad shape, give them a C- or D or something. If they start out in lousy shape and end up in great shape (entirely doable while you're still fat) - give them an A or an A+. Start lousy and keep that - give them a C- or a D.
It isn't monitoring their health status, it is monitoring their excertion level.
You mean the teachers are measuring how much they're crapping in the toilet? Eeww... that's definitely going too far!
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
The straps go around the chest.
The chest of a middle schooler.
A sweaty, pubescent middle schooler.
Running around in the hot sun.
Who is only beginning to understand about the need for personal hygiene.
Yeah. I don't want to keep a collection of those in the same building I work in either. Ew. I think that's an OSHA violation or something.
Well, he didn't have an existing illness. But you have just explained, pretty well, why insurance companies should not be allowed to be involved in individual medical coverage. Because it's not in their interest to cover sick people! I hope all of the folks who are against the public option get for-profit fire departments in their towns.
Bruce Perens.
We learned to take our pulse in grade school. After that, for me at least, there was nothing new in regards to that.
As an adult, whenever I work out I take a heart rate monitor with me. Martial arts, archery, weight lifting, or running I like to know where I'm at. If I'm running I can back my pace down a bit to keep it at good and safe exercise levels, the same is true of martial arts.
When it comes to weight lifting, I can rest up until my heart rate is back to a lower exertion level between sets. And believe me, when you start moving big weights your heart rate will go up in leaps and bounds during the exercise.
Looking back, for football or other team sports I wish we had been able to use an HRM. It would have provided me the info I needed later in life to avoid putting on a lot of the weight I did (though I've subsequently lost it) since I could have used that info to figure out approximately how many calories I was burning.
From the comments, I suspect that most Slashdot readers don't spend much time in gyms.
Heart rate monitors are very useful. They tell you what resistance level you should be using on the cardio machines. Some of the fancier cardio machines read your heart rate and automatically adjust the resistance level to keep your heart rate in the training zone.
Great for obese kids. And adults. It fine-tunes their workout to a level they can handle while preventing goofing off.
If the school is really doing that, good for them. They're doing it right.
A heart rate monitor, or a person measuring the pulse with his finger and a watch after a 2-step test, measure a figure that is of potential interest to a party which wishes to use information to filter to whom medical coverage will be offered. The difference between electronic and manual is that electronic records are made automatically, in a medium that is extremely easy to transmit.
Bruce Perens.
Dr Ratley, Harvard has documented effect of exercise in HS math based on 25 min daily exercise in target zone. http://www.learningreadinesspe.com/vid/vidmain.html NBC http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113506 Naperville HS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_sana_in_corpore_sano Too much Fox news rots the brain and induces paranoia, but I forgot where that is documented.
What the fuck are you babbling about?
When did the user that submitted the article ever mention anything about politics? Or race? The submitter is concerned with ramifications regarding personal rights.
You're the sort of person who just sits around waiting for anything even similar to a discussion so you can spew out your political beliefs and try to act holier-than-thou.
There's the running joke about slashdotters living in their parents basements and not having a life, but you really don't seem to a have a life. So put down the moral superiority and go get one.
Actually no, I don't. I was recalling from my own experiences from when I was a kid and since. I stand corrected! Thanks for setting me straight. :)
It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
Scenario:
* Kid has tiny routine temporary infection. It's resolved.
* Parent wants to insure kid, wife, self, against costs of broken arms, car accidents, heart attacks, etc.
* Insurance company goes on data mining expedition, sees tiny temporary infection in past, denies whole family coverage for all health issues.
Now do you see the fallacy in your argument?
[
is to remove manditory PE from the schools. Use it as time to learn music, or have a out of class work for an hour to help kids deal with homework.
Here is the thing:
30 minutes of half hearted PE exercise in a gym where you mostly goof off really doesn't provide anything. If the child isn't getting exercise at home and learning proper diets then this isn't going to help them.
Use the money for PE top provide a healthy lunch. No more pizza and cheap hot dogs.
Kids that are inclined to exercise will play at home. Many kids do not get an opportunity to learn music in the home, and just learning to play a little each day stimulates the brain.
no, I do not play music, but I wish all the effort schools spent to get me to wear shorts and sweat had been put into making learn an instrument..any instrument
Mother of god, so much stupidity crammed into a single post I hardly know where to start.
Oh that's a great idea. Just when the obesity epidemic couldn't get much worse, let's drop the one chance many people get to burn a few transfats just because one fatass wanted to learn more music. (Hint: if you regret that you didn't learn how to play an instrument, why don't you just go and learn how to play an instrument?)
OMG, I can't believe that A I just read that, and B you got modded Insightful. Here's a question, what about those who are not inclined to exercise? What do you suggest we do for them? Annual liposuction? What about those who aren't inclined to exercise now but would be more inclined to if they learn an appreciation for sport in school? Would you prefer them to become diabetic pianists? What about those who are inclined to exercise? Would you prefer to deprive them of a shot at some athletic enjoyment during their school years?
Drill baby drill - on Mars
This is very much like being worried because your kid is taking trig, and the teachers were using dependable, hand-crafted slide rules, but decided to end that and switch to programmable calculators with memory, and ZOMG it could remember all your kids math mistakes and thus rule them out of future employment!
You can see where that sentence went silly right? Right about the point where you became afraid of any change, anything at all, that you were completely ignorant about. Ask Slashdot? Really? Ask the fscking gym teacher first.
Your choice. Be reasonable and talk to the teacher, or assume the gummint is out to get you, but you won't home school, so you'll just have to send your kid into school with a gun. Either should solve your problem. One would be very amusing, and you should post the story to Slashdot telling us what happens next.
--
Toro
You're assuming that only medically useful data would be used to deny people access to health care. As I commented here, my entire family was rejected for coverage because my child once had a VCUG test. That illustrates the problem pretty well, IMO: not medically useful, used to discriminate.
Bruce Perens.
Unfortunately people are not free to opt out of getting ill or injured; these are simply facts of life, unfortunately, and there are unavoidable associated expenses.
Sure, a healthy lifestyle reduces the risk to some degree, and a "fat tax" on obesity might be justified. The same logic also leads to an "adrenaline tax" for thrill-seekers, a "bachelor tax" since married people are generally more healthy (having less fun?)... but these are just differences of degree - choices do not eliminate risk. And ultimately everybody dies, which is usually expensive.
Perhaps as a stoic libertarian, your plan is to forego treatment and die of a curable illness. That's not a workable public policy. People actually faced with that situation do not go down with the ship, what they do is receive treatment and then declare bankruptcy. They are freeloaders.
I teach middle and high school PE and Health in a public school. Last year, I had the opportunity to order a set of heart rate monitors for my classes jumped at the chance. POLAR has a set designed for use in large group settings that make administering the system quite easy. Each student is assigned a watch, a monitor and strap. (The strap is a piece of elastic that attaches to the monitor and goes around the chest, and there are always clean straps available for each student). Students wear the monitors during class, while their heart rate is recorded onto the watch. Students get immediate feedback as to their heart rate and exertion level during any particular activity. Later, this data is download to a computer, for more detailed analysis. Students can see a graph of the HR data through class to identify areas of improvement. In my district, the data is used as their primary grade. If they stay in (or above) their target heart rate zone for 80% of class on a particular day, they've earned an 80% for that day. They don't get any points for being under their zone. In fact, the watch beeps like crazy when a student is out of their zone to get their attention. This system, coupled with daily aerobic and strengthening activities has dramatically improved the fitness level of my students over the course of a year. The HR data is used by me and only me. The district doesn't seem to care about HR data at this time so I wouldn't be concerned about it being filed away for later...yet. Many districts are starting PE initiatives to get kids active, and some of that energy is going into fitness testing, where scores are tracked from yer to year. My understanding is that the scores are used in an academic sense and shouldn't be used in any medical situation. PE Teachers are not doctors so any data collected from us should not be considered by any reasonable insurance company. In short, HR monitors are good for students, teachers and parents, when used properly.
Doctors don't only drop out of medicare. They drop out of the various negotiated-price private health insurance schemes, and for the same reasons. Note the rise of concierge health-care for rich folks. It doesn't solve the problem for you and I.
Bruce Perens.
Heart rate monitors monitor -- guess what -- heart rate. Heart rate is how often your heart beats per minutes. For optimal training, heart rate should be kept in a particular (age-dependent) range. That's completely normal training procedure: almost every piece of aerobic exercise equipment at health clubs supports it.
Be happy that your school is teaching your kids something about modern fitness, since you obviously aren't able to teach them.
They drop out of the various negotiated-price private health insurance schemes, and for the same reasons.
Sure they do. I know of a few specific cases myself. In such cases though, you have other options (insurance companies, paying cash, out of network partial reimbursement, etc). If the government performs a complete take over- and that's the eventuality once we start, because that's the only way the math will work out- then you won't have other options.
Well, you will have other options- you'll be able to pay cash to see a doctor, a current situation which you imply is a problem.
Hard choices often need to be made in the face of limited resources. Will you make those decisions, or will the government?
Next time you go to the doctor, ask about their cash prices for various services. Think about how many you could pay for out of pocket if you had too. What common expenses would you be willing to give up to address those problems, if you had to? Eating out? Your cable tv/internet connection? Would you put off a computer upgrade? Sell the shiny new car and drive a beater?
Do you think you should never have to make those decisions in order to satisfy your medical needs?
Once you answer these questions, that will give you an idea of what sort of financial thresh hold you have, above which you would need insurance.
The public debate should reflect these sorts of questions. It doesn't.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
This is not at all a "would I have to give up ice cream" sort of situation.
Bruce Perens.
You are being paranoid and it troubles me greatly that your retarded ass reproduced.
quick.
I'm sure you're fed up of hearing it by now, but... worrying about knowing about health conditions out of fear that it will be used against you means your health-care system is broken, not that you shouldn't check your heart rate. Please don't construe this as coming down on one side or the other of US politics; I, as an englishman, honestly cannot fathom how a system that deprives people of poor health from care is acceptable.
To the OP, if you're so worried about this, get the kid a heart rate monitor yourself, and teach him about optimal heart rates for exercise.
First, they graded people based on physical capabilities - who runs the fastest. This had the effect of failing the fat kid.
Then, they graded them based on personal achievement - who has improved their running times the most. This had the effect of failing someone who put in their full effort the first time.
Then, they graded them based on stamina - who made it through the full two miles. This had the effect of failing whoever had the least muscle mass and most weight to carry - again, the fat kid.
Now, their idea may be to grade them based on who raises their heart rate to a specified level - the idea being that this is a more even distribution of effort even if it takes the athletic kid five times as much distance as the fat kid.
Personally, I don't see why we need to grade a bloody PE class.
People in Soviet Russia, however, appear to be afflicted with amusing juxtapositions of the aforementioned situation
I desperately wish I could make fun of you for your paranoia. unfortunately your concerns are terrible necessary considering this(USA) country's shift towards socialism and the opinion of governing bodies that they know what is best for you as well as the tendency to give corporations more rights than citizens.
Seriously. W. T. F.
The school is just telling kids how to monitor their heart rate. Back in my youth, we used to do this with a wristwatch and our fingers on our wrists or necks. They then use the numbers to make sure that kids learn how hard to workout to get the best results out of exercise and to make sure that kids aren't overdoing it -- for their own safety and health, the very things a PE teacher is supposed to care about. The only twist here is that they are using tools that can do the job better than your fingers and a watch.
But, OH NOES SOCIALSIM! TEH EVULZ! You people don't even understand what socialism is and isn't as a purely economic policy (and how it generally stands in opposition to giving corporations more rights than citizens, btw) -- it's just the latest watchword for everything you don't like. Just sad.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I miss being a libertarian, because the world was so much simpler. Government=bad. Business=freedom. But the entire libertarian viewpoint (capitalize it or not, your choice) is basically blind to any abuse of power that is motivated by financial profit. They correctly see the dangers in government power, but non-government coercion, especially when money is involved, doesn't even register. I had to break with it because I felt that I was achieving clarity at the expense of ignoring what was right before my eyes.
Related to the story, I'd guess the heart monitors in question are pulse monitors, not cardiac monitors that give you an EKG reading.
We need PE because, if you haven't noticed, even young children in the USA are disgusting fat asses. It is unhealthy, it is costly to society, and it is a reflection on self control and self respect.
Blar.