Gene Therapy Cures Color-Blind Monkeys

SpuriousLogic writes "After receiving injections of genes that produce color-detecting proteins, two color-blind monkeys have seen red and green for the first time. Except in its extreme forms, color blindness isn't a debilitating condition, but it's a convenient stand-in for other types of blindness that might be treated with gene therapy. The monkey success raises the possibility of reversing those diseases, in a manner that most scientists considered impossible. 'We said it was possible to give an adult monkey with a model of human red-green color blindness the retina of a person with normal color vision. Every single person I talked to said, absolutely not,' said study co-author Jay Neitz, a University of Washington ophthalmologist. 'And almost every unsolved vision defect out there has this component in one way or another, where the ability to translate light into a gene signal is involved.' The full-spectrum supplementation of the squirrel monkeys' sight, described Wednesday in Nature, comes just less than a year after researchers used gene therapy to restore light perception in people afflicted by Leber Congenital Amaurosis, a rare and untreatable form of blindness."

Comments

biotech rocks

[joocemann]

nuff' said

Re:biotech rocks

[overbaud]

Not as much as geology rocks...

Re:biotech rocks

[NoYob]

Just wait! First the monkeys, then the orangutans, the chimps and then the apes.

The World will one day be run by those damn dirty apes and they'll enslave us!

Re:biotech rocks

[dmbasso]

Indeed. It'll be cool when we'll be able to receive some butterfly genes, and see ultraviolet.

Re:biotech rocks

[Goldberg's Pants]

I'm colour blind myself. (Seriously).

I'm currently looking around for a cheap monkey suit. I have my own supply of bananas.

Re:biotech rocks

[Grishnakh]

I wonder if they could use this gene therapy to give certain color-detecting genes to cats, to give them full color vision. Cats are partially color-blind naturally, so if they could give cats something that none of them are born with, and it works, there's no telling what kind of wacky things they could add onto living humans, like UV vision, fluorescing skin, poison fangs, etc.

Re:biotech rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

Orangutans and chimpanzees ARE apes.

Re:biotech rocks

[Foobar of Borg]

Just wait! First the monkeys, then the orangutans, the chimps and then the apes.
The World will one day be run by those damn dirty apes and they'll enslave us!

Well, so long as they keep their stinking paws off me, I for one welcome our new simian overlords!

Re:biotech rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure will be fun watching all those people who won't eat a GM tomato line up for gene therapy that fixes the particular problem they have...

Re:biotech rocks

[TitusC3v5]

Indeed. Now if they could only make this work for humans. One of my X chromosomes has been missing a leg for as long as I can remember. Here's to hoping this research can fix it. :)

Re:biotech rocks

[interkin3tic]

I'd wait until they find a way to make it work without injecting the viruses into your eyes. I haven't been following gene therapy or viral transfection, I'm assuming there's still the problem that these viruses still insert their genes into your genome at random, potentially interrupting, say retinoblastoma. I think if that happened you'd be many times more likely to develop the cancer the protein is named after.

Re:biotech rocks

[LegionKK]

Well, the color blindness would certainly be cured if they had removed the monkeys' eyes and replaced them with rocks.

Re:biotech rocks

[NoYob]

Orangutans and chimpanzees ARE apes.

I DARE you to say that to their faces!

Re:biotech rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

The question is, how did they get them to willingly participate in the study? Did they offer them malt liquor or just promise them white women? And then run for the hills when the chimpout ensued?

Re:biotech rocks

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

That'd be a visit from our mutual friend the "risk/reward ratio"(Actually "Perceived risk/Perceived reward; but that is always the case).

Shockingly enough, people are willing to take larger risks to solve more serious problems, and for most of the people who object to GM crops, some previously incurable disease is a much larger problem than food supply, which is already good and solved if you have the money.

Re:biotech rocks

[mackhaX0r]

Indeed. It'll be cool when we'll be able to receive some butterfly genes, and see ultraviolet.

That would make most peoples day

Re:biotech rocks

[Goldberg's Pants]

Yeah, I know. It's just really exciting. I am genuinely colour blind and the possibility of seeing PROPER colours, like everyone else, is really exciting.

Of course ultimately pointless. I can genuinely say my colour blindness has never caused me any problems. It's limited my job choices a couple of times, but that was minor really.

Still, sure would be cool to see stuff properly. I mean grass is green, I know that. But what I see as green is vastly different to what other people see.

Be nice to see what grass really looks like.

Re:biotech rocks

[joocemann]

Sure will be fun watching all those people who won't eat a GM tomato line up for gene therapy that fixes the particular problem they have...

... i know... the ignorance amazes.

Re:biotech rocks

[interkin3tic]

Shockingly enough, people are willing to take larger risks to solve more serious problems, and for most of the people who object to GM crops, some previously incurable disease is a much larger problem than food supply, which is already good and solved if you have the money.

Disclaimer: I easily might not know what I'm talking about here, and as a (non agricultural) biologist myself, I'm probably skewed opinion towards the "we can improve on nature without serious consequence" end of things.

We do have enough food I guess, and we do have advanced ways of making that much food. It would be great if the cost of GOOD food came down, if we could make the food better, and if we could get away from some agriculture methods, assuming the risk was low enough.

You can get all the calories you need in a day for about ten cents. If you want healthy food, that strains some people's budget. Seems to me that if we made a fresh salad cheaper than a microwave burrito or what have you, a decent amount of the of obesity and malnutrition problems poorer america faces would dissapear. I believe that when the price of produce drops, the quality of life increases, even though we have enough food for everyone to not starve.

Second, again on the "nutrition could be improved" end, some crops can be healthier for you. Golden rice is one example I've heard of. Vitamin A deficiency is apperantly a big problem in the developing world, especially parts in which rice is a staple of the diet. Rice which has been engineered to contain more beta carotene, great idea.

Third, we could use crops which didn't require as much fertilizer, pesticides, and other ecologically damaging maintenece. I'm sure there are more environmentally sound methods of crop production that don't require genetic modification, but to each one, I'd ask why they aren't being used right now. If it's an efficiency question, or just more expensive, then that gets into my first point.

Most GM protests and protesters I've heard of have focused more on costumes than actual risks, which makes me think that they might not be motivated by risks so much as FUD.

Re:biotech rocks

[Idiomatick]

I bet the risk of injecting a virus into your eye is higher than eating a gm tomato...

And GM crops solve tons of problems though I think there should be room for two markets. The problem I have isn't people fighting for the choice of natural foods in their supermarket but fighting to stop GM crops. The threat of other people in your city eating GM crops is infinitesimally low.

Re:biotech rocks

[emjay88]

No no, Geology rocks, Biotech grows on you

Re:biotech rocks

[Ihmhi]

I've been looking for geeky posters to add in my classroom for when I become an elementary/primary school teacher. Aside from a picture of Gandalf with the text "If you do not study, you shall not pass!", I now have another to add to the potential collection of wallgeekery. :3

Re:biotech rocks

[koxkoxkox]

A lot of people objecting to GMO don't do it for personal safety. They fear the possible contamination of natural ecosystems, or just dislike the importance it gives to firms which are not really known for their philanthropic behavior (for example, the possibility of seeds producing sterile plants so you have to buy them each year).

Re:biotech rocks

[compro01]

It wouldn't necessarily be an advantage. People with colourblindness also often have the secondary effect that they have far better night vision than someone with normal colour vision. I would image it is much the same with cats.

Re:biotech rocks

[Bigjeff5]

...possibility of seeing PROPER colours...

Even more than that, it opens it up for everybody else to see in TRUE color, seeing as how even we color-advantaged folk only see a tiny sliver of the EM spectrum.

Could you imagine being able to see halfway down the IR spectrum, or well past UV on the other end? Things would look very different, that's for sure. Even just a little bump in both directions would be amazing.

Re:biotech rocks

[Runaway1956]

Ditto here. I saw the article at discovery dot com today, and read it. Man, it would be GREAT to get a shot or six, and start seeing all those colors people SAY that they see. I could swear that people are involved in a conspiracy to convince people like me that we're nuts. Purple, lilac, lavender, and a whole lot of others are ALL THE SAME!!

Oddly enough, the little sample color vision chart they stuck in the article? I was able to see the eye in it. Not real clearly, but when I read the tag caption, I was able to see the eye. The real charts just don't work, though.

Re:biotech rocks

[Bigjeff5]

The problem non-GM croppers have (I'm not one of them, btw, I say it's about damn time we had killer tomatoes!), is GM crops almost always genetically compatible with non-GM crops, and most GM crops don't lose the ability to procreate.

In other words, if there is an "organic" (what a bullshit term, btw, if it weren't organic we couldn't eat it!) non-GM farm sitting next a GM farm, within a few years the non-GM farm will become a GM farm at least in part and the farmer may not even realize it. Well, until he starts getting ridiculously good tomatoes even though he uses no pesticides and only natural fertilizers, and most of his tomatoes used to come out sortof "iffy" (I'm exaggerating, of course).

So eventually, given enough time, everything will be at least a partially GM'd crop. That's not cool to non-GM'ers.

Re:biotech rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

Not as much as geology rocks...

Don't take it for granite.

Re:biotech rocks

[Runaway1956]

Are you color "blind", or color "deficient". I can't see much of the red and green spectrum, but yellow and blue are just fine. A far smaller number of people can't see yellow and blue, but they are alright with reds and greens. It's a very rare individual who is "color blind".

If you are really color blind, I feel for you. Damned road signs and traffic lights must be real killers. They're bad enough for me!

Re:biotech rocks

[Bigjeff5]

It's not seeds that produce sterile plants that is the problem, the little guys will just continue to use reproducing plants. They get subsidies here in the US so it's no big deal for them one way or the other.

It's the repdroducing GM plants that are the problem, because most of the time they WILL reproduce with non-modified plants, and the result is a modified plant. You can't go back to non-modified once it is modified, it will forever be "changed".

I don't think it's a bad thing, as long as we take care in what we do, but in general humans tend to break stuff first and try to fix it later. The biggest example today is what China is doing to their air, and what the US and Europe did to their's a hundred years ago. We don't tend to make the same mistake in new places, but there are a lot of old places that we may never be able to clean up all the way.

Re:biotech rocks

[MarkRose]

I prefer not to know. Igneous is bliss.

Re:biotech rocks

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I have no particular confidence in the accuracy of the typical GMO protesters' risk perception(or, for that matter, the accuracy of their opponents. The details are tricky enough, and the number of people familiar with them small enough, that majority attitudes are going to come down to choice of authorities, not independent understanding.)

I just don't think that it is either surprising or particularly ironic that someone who opposes GMO food production would seek genetic treatment for a condition affecting them.

Re:biotech rocks

[Runaway1956]

GM foods? Hmmm. I object to GM foods for a couple of reasons, IN ADDITION to simple queasiness.

First, the GM foods are replacing a number of cultivars. A widely varied pool of genes, nationwide and world wide are being replaced with a monoculture. Never a good idea. One blight that affects the favored cultivar can ensure widespread hunger, and possibly starvation.

Second, man evolved as an omnivore. We take nourishment from almost anything and everything that doesn't take nourishment from us first. In fact, the healthiest people are those who consume a wide variety of foods. Again - we are replacing that wide variety with monocultures. Might we be overlooking the importance of some thing? Hmmmm.

THIRD - those monocultures are developed and marketed by corporations that make full use of "copyright" "patent" and any other laws they can bring to bear. Using those foods with licenses attached pretty much gives a small group of developers a HUGE financial leverage on EVERYONE.

Personally, I might be willing to pay for a gene therapy treatment for something like this. I am NOT willing to pay big corporations to monopolize the world food supply. Big difference, IMHO.

I don't even think there is any irony in my attitude.

Re:biotech rocks

[ChromeAeonium]

Your arguments against monoculture and possible parent abuse are valid, but remember, a tool is only as good as you use it. Genetic engineering is a tool, just like any other branch of engineering, and GMOs and monoculture/patent trolling need not be mutually inclusive. Given time, hopefully we'll see a wide variety of GMO crops grown, and better patent laws, to avoid those problems.

Re:biotech rocks

[Miamicanes]

> Could you imagine being able to see halfway down the IR spectrum, or well past UV on the other end

IR might be do-able, but UV is almost structurally impossible for the human eye to meaningfully view. The spectral peak of "blue" cones is actually closer to violet than blue. If you look at a sensitivity curve for human blue cones, you'll notice that its peak is just slightly above violet, and its lower third is simply chopped off or attenuated away. The problem is the cornea -- it blocks most UV light. What the cornea doesn't block, the fluid inside the eye absorbs and scatters. There have been reports that people who've had cataract surgery are able to perceive UV as hazy, diffuse "purplish-yellow" light. The idea that something can be purple and yellow is strange, but not as crazy as it sounds when you consider that the color we call "purple" is NOTHING like spectral violet, and is actually an artifact of human vision caused by a nonlinear slope in blue sensitivity. There's a tiny area where the upper end of blue overlaps with the lower end of red, with a small ripple in blue that introduces just enough error in that region to make purple possible.

There's another problem: chromatic aberration. Ever notice that you can make a fake 3d-like pic using pure red and pure blue, so the blue parts seem to be floating in space compared to the red? That's chromatic aberration at work. The cornea can only focus light from a relatively narrow band. The lower you go, the less-focused the light would be. Similar distortion would become problematic in the infrared range, though not as quickly as at the blue end.

Re:biotech rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, that was informative.

Re:biotech rocks

[interkin3tic]

I see that I did go off on a tangent there when you weren't actually advocating that viewpoint.

I will point out that, especially with the viral method of transfection, you'd be much more likely to get cancer from this rather than GMO. I'm optimistic that if someone were offering to cure colorblindness by this method, someone would point out that and buisiness would dry up as people weigh the risks. I'm less optimistic that if they figure out how to do gene therapy without viral transfection or increased risk of cancer, GMO protesters will trust scientists.

Heck, I suspect the "infectedwithrage" tag currently on the story isn't completely sarcastic, and we're supposed to be at least a little more science oriented than the average joes.

Re:biotech rocks

[MadUndergrad]

That is awesome. I'd never realized that purple is an artifact of our genes, not of the em spectrum. But really, using gene therapy to be a pentachromat would be amazing. You wouldn't even need a thermometer to see how hot the roast is, it'd just have to have the right tint. Maybe even dark thermographic vision.

Re:biotech rocks

[interkin3tic]

I'd be happy to see in IR, but I'd undergo treatment to become a tetrachromat. That seems a little more likely, since there seem to be people who are tetrachromats.

Re:biotech rocks

[beav007]

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing octarine.

Re:biotech rocks

[Hognoxious]

Do you have a sedimentary job?

Re:biotech rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

So are you.

Re:biotech rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

In other words, if there is an "organic" non-GM farm sitting next a GM farm, within a few years the non-GM farm will become a GM farm at least in part and the farmer may not even realize it.

So eventually, given enough time, everything will be at least a partially GM'd crop. That's not cool to non-GM'ers.

This is documented as happening already. In fact, the pharma companies that produce GM crops (Monsanto, et al) have already successfully sued farmers for growing GM crops without paying for a license because of this effect.

This is one of the most serious objections to GM crops (outside of pure environmentalism). Given time, the cross-contamination effect will mean that pretty much all our crops have GM genes, whether intentionally or not, and under current licensing laws, that means that Monsanto and the other GM companies will effectively own the whole planet's food supply.

If that's not scary, I don't know what is.

(and yes, I know this is getting dangerously close to being off-topic)

Re:biotech rocks

[plastbox]

Couldn't agree more! I want to become a tetrachromat so I can see if women can actually tell the difference between towels and drapes colored #000000 and #110000 (which both seem quite black to me). Hell, perhaps I'd even be able to understand how our living room walls are brown (like all the women who visit agree they are), not light pink (like all my mates agree they are)! o.O

Would it, in theory, be possible to inject DNA that caused the rod cells to produce IR/UV reactive proteins? Granted, there probably isn't that much infrared light bouncing about at night but it might help, right? And of course there is the novelty and excitement of seeing the world like no human has ever seen it before..

Re:biotech rocks

[plastbox]

..fluorescing skin, poison fangs, etc.

Oh MAN, Twilight fans on slashdot? -__-'

Re:biotech rocks

[plastbox]

I am intrigued! What are these "GameMaster tomatoes" of which you speak, and why would it be bad if they wrested control from non-GM tomatoes by virtue of being better..?

Re:biotech rocks

[TheLink]

I'd rather keep the normal eyes, but add two (or more) auxiliary hi-res hi-spectrum video inputs :).

After all, if an ape can learn to see a colour it has never seen before, and people can learn to see with their tongues, I figure given some suitable tech the brain can learn to support extra video ins.

If that's not possible for adults, but only for children, oh well...

Re:biotech rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

Which would be accurate as to any hominid. But since you're a racist troll you looked on the other side instead of in the mirror.

Re:biotech rocks

[mcgrew]

Yes, it does. It's too late for my dad, though.

Except in its extreme forms, color blindness isn't a debilitating condition

Yes it is.

My dad got a job at Union Electric in the early fifties when I was a toddler. He wanted to be an indoor wireman, but to be an indoor wireman you have to be able to tell a red wire from a green wire, and he can't. He became a lineman instead, and has been retired for about twenty years now.

When they changed the color of stop signs form yellow to red around 1960, it put him and you in danger, because stop signs are invisible to him if there is foliage behind them. I'm glad to see they've started putting white or (better yet) yellow around the edges of stop signs, because there are a LOT of people with that condition who can run the invisible stop sign and broadside you at any time.

At a traffic ligt, he doesn't go by color since he can't tell a red light from a green light. Instead, top means stop and bottom means go. He once got a ticket in Arizona for running a red light because they'd installed the traffic signal upside down.

I was severely nearsighted all my life (until I got my implant), but even though eyeglasses are a PITA, they never affected my life in any consequential way. My dad's got 20/20 vision (well, he did in his youth) but his color blindness has hampered his life. His late brother had the same condition.

And BTW, "color blind" is a misnomer. People with this condition see colors, they just don't see the same colors you do. It's a color deficiency.

Re:biotech rocks

[orangesquid]

Your eyeballs would have to pass a sufficient amount of IR/UV to the back of the eye -- I'm not sure if they do. If only a tiny bit gets through, you could play with UV and IR light sources in an otherwise dark room, but as far as seeing the UV coloration on flower petals, for example, you'd probably be out of luck, as your eyes would be swamped with visible light.
(Biologists who study vision, please correct me if I'm wrong)

And, brown versus light pink? Surely you mean they say "light brownish off-white" to refer to the very light reddish tan that appears light pink to people who don't have thousands of mental snapshots of flashy pink outfits to compare them to. ;)
[Yeah, I know that's a stereotype, and many women hate pink, including my girlfriend, but hey, it's a joke]

Re:biotech rocks

[mcgrew]

The problem is the cornea -- it blocks most UV light.

Key word "most". If you had cones the right size you would indeed see UV.

Prevention
Although cataracts have no scientifically proven prevention, it is sometimes said that wearing ultraviolet-protecting sunglasses may slow the development of cataracts.[22][23] Regular intake of antioxidants (such as vitamin A, C and E) is theoretically helpful, but taking them as a supplement has been shown to have no benefit.[24]

You couldn't see UV if your eyeglass lenses were glass, as glass is opaque to UV.

Re:biotech rocks

[vegiVamp]

> "purplish-yellow" light

Octarine ?

Re:biotech rocks

[mcgrew]

for most of the people who object to GM crops, some previously incurable disease is a much larger problem than food supply

GM crops aren't going to solve hunger. There is more than enough food grown to feed everyone even without GM. The problem is with economics and greed.

My only beef against GM crops is I don't think one should be able to patent a life form.

Re:biotech rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

Purple, lilac, lavender, and a whole lot of others are ALL THE SAME!!

To be fair, those colors look exactly the same to 90% of men.

Re:biotech rocks

[Tdawgless]

You could eat some fungus for the same effect.

Re:biotech rocks

[An ominous Cow art]

Gneiss one.

Re:biotech rocks

[holmstar]

Did you know that it is possible to get an idea of the true color of the sky? (the sky is actually blue-violet rather than blue-white) You just have to overload your blue cone cells a bit... stare at a blue object that is brightly lit, such as a slip-n-slide or blue kiddie pool sitting in the sun, and after 20-30 seconds, look up at the sky. It will now appear to be a shade of blue-violet instead of blue-white.

Re:biotech rocks

[srleffler]

That's not likely to happen. It's much easier to add a capability that already exists in the human genome, than it is to add a capability that only exists in other animals, or not at all. Besides getting the genetics of the photoreceptor right, the brain has to have the right wiring to interpret the resulting signals. Get it wrong, and at best the new visual receptors won't work. Complete blindness would not be the worst possible outcome, either.

Re:biotech rocks

[Idiomatick]

Well all I can say to that is lawyers suck and that needs to be changed.... badly.

Re:biotech rocks

[Grishnakh]

Actually, I know you're joking but I wasn't even thinking of anything like that, as I've never seen that horrible movie. The fluorescing skin was from some Slashdot article I remember a while back, where they, I believe, made some mutant pigs with genes from some sea animal causing it to have fluorescing skin. And the poison fangs is probably because I live in Arizona and we're surrounded by rattlesnakes and scorpions. I have to catch a scorpion every few days in my house, now that it's summertime (they like the A/C).

Re:biotech rocks

[FreeFull]

How metamorphic.

Re:biotech rocks

[xmundt]

no schist....

Re:biotech rocks

[The_mad_linguist]

The brain is really awesome about getting the right wiring for interpreting signals. For example, the widely publicized "seeing tongue" research.

Re:biotech rocks

[plastbox]

Suuuure, that's what you were thinking!

That being said.. I enjoyed the movie and I look forward to enjoying the next ones. Yeah, mindless drivel and whatnot but it's got vampires and it's definitely quite far from the worst mindless drivel I have forced myself through. I'd rather see Twilight again, three times in a row at that, than suffer through Kill Bill again!

Re:biotech rocks

[plastbox]

Surely you mean they say "light brownish off-white" to refer to the very light reddish tan that appears light pink to people who don't have thousands of mental snapshots of flashy pink outfits to compare them to.

"light brownish off-white" sounds a lot like how they describe the color. Doesn't change the actual color one bit though! It's still pink, just as ligt blue is still light blue no matter how much I insist it's "light indigoish off-white". =P

Colors - for the first time

[NotQuiteReal]

Upon seeing the new colors, the monkeys also made the signs for "far out" and "trippy, dude".

Re:Colors - for the first time

[MarkRose]

Given those results, I say we give the human trials a green light!

Re:Colors - for the first time

[feepness]

Given those results, I say we give the human trials a green light!

Just make sure the people running it aren't red/green colorblind.

Re:Colors - for the first time

[Anonymous Coward]

or a red light, if you can't tell the difference.

Re:Colors - for the first time

[ignavus]

Given those results, I say we give the human trials a green light!

We already did. Can't you see it?

This is great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now all those poor monkeys will finally be able to get unrestricted pilot licenses!

Re:This is great!

[Tablizer]

Now all those poor monkeys will finally be able to get unrestricted pilot licenses!

What scares me is this implies they currently have restricted licenses.
         

Re:This is great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, i saw this trick.

the crazy device will rise out of the floor and zap them all first.

Re:This is great!

[maxume]

You have simply repeated the joke, with less subtlety.

Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Gizzmonic]

What about those crazy women with 4 color receptors. They are real life mutants! Are we going to get some gene therapy like that? I want 2 receptors for green! I'll be like a human HDTV! In fact, that will be my crimefighting name: The Human HDTV! I fight crime in 1080i! (it would be in 1080p but that's as high as my TV goes)

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[1 a bee]

Why not go infra-red? From the article..

Williams, however, was quicker to speculate. âoeUltimately we might be able to do all kinds of interesting manipulations of the retina,â he said. âoeNot only might we be able to cure disease, but we might engineer eyes with remarkable capabilities. You can imagine conferring enhanced night vision in normal eyes, or engineering genes that make photopigments with spectral properties for whatever you want your eye to see.â

âoeThis study makes that kind of science fiction future a distinct possibility, as opposed to a fantasy,â continued Williams.

Aye. A story deserving of being /.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[keeboo]

What about those crazy women with 4 color receptors [tomes.biz]. They are real life mutants! Are we going to get some gene therapy like that?

I'm not sure I would want that.
All color movies and photographs up now are recorded for a audience of tricromats. Watching movies, seeing your family pictures, browsing the internet etc would probably look poor to tetracromats.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Trahloc]

That was the first thing I thought of as well. If they can bring a sub-par eye up to normal levels then I can't wait until we can add infravision 60'

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Brian Gordon]

Something makes me suspicious... oh yeah:

Every single person I talked to said, absolutely not

I have no knowledge of which labs are trustworthy or whatever but that sentence demands skepticism

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[SheeEttin]

All color movies and photographs up now are recorded for a audience of tricromats. Watching movies, seeing your family pictures, browsing the internet etc would probably look poor to tetracromats.

So? Glasses to filter out all but visible light (today's visible light) should be trivial. Just like those blue & red 3D glasses.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Trebawa]

Mod parent up. I want Darkvision so I can see in dimly lit dungeons! In all seriousness, however, it would be extremely useful to allow humans to see a wider spectrum than they currently can. Perhaps the hyperspectral vision of the mantis shrimp could yield proteins that could allow human eyes to see well into UV and IR.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Samah]

Why not go infra-red?

Cool idea... your TV remote would look like an awesome torch. :)

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Miamicanes]

> So? Glasses to filter out all but visible light (today's visible light) should be trivial. Just like those blue & red 3D glasses.

Women believed to be tetrachromatic don't see light trichromats can't see... they recognize two variants of "green" as being different, the same way green and red are different to you. If you were genuinely tetrachromatic in the sense the women are believed to be, TV, film, photographs, and printed images would almost ALWAYS look like shit to you, because the "green" would be "wrong" in ways you couldn't really explain.

Here's an example: suppose you were a trichromat, living in a world where 94% of the population couldn't distinguish between red and green, and for all intents and purposes "yellow" was just a darker or brighter shade of red/green. Color film wouldn't be based on red, green, and blue... it would be based on blue and yellow. Your RGB monitor would be a BY monitor. To everyone else, the whole idea of "RGB" would be silly, because they could get the exact same image quality from just blue and yellow. You'd be the unfortunate person who kept babbling about there being a difference between "red" and "green", and that they were somehow different from the color everyone else knew as "yellow". Anyway, getting back to the example, a tetrachromatic woman wouldn't want RGB... she'd want RGgB, where "G" and "g" were slightly different frequencies of green. An RGB monitor to a tetrachromat would look just as artificial, fake, and bad as a Blue-Yellow monitor designed for deutranopes and protanopes would to you.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Anonymous Coward]

Good work missing the point there, smart guy.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Kickasso]

I say, tetrachromatism for all! You get a shot of vision genes toether with your polio vaccine and that's it, you see in RGZB like everyone else. Then we will redo all our imaging software and hardware to work in 4 colours. And then someone will develop a pentachromatism gene treatment. The possibilities are exciting.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[interkin3tic]

Not as poor as black and white television would look to people who can see in more than black and white.

A story from a while back showed that people who watched black and white TV as kids still often have monochromatic dreams. That to me suggests the brain might handle stepping DOWN in number of colors without much complaint. I'd be more concerned with "would the increased range of colors be extremely distracting, or cause seizures in those of us who have lived without 4 color channels?" It might be constant information overload.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[plastbox]

Random-rant, from hours upon hours of pondering things like how I would perceive wearing a sensory substitution vision system while seeing with my eyes, or some other sensory substitution gear to experience something completely new.

First of all, do you think tetrachromats know they perceive colors differently? Assume for a moment that you were born with your red/blue wiring swapped (assuming the eye and brain worked that way).. What you experience as red is what others experience as blue, but you are told it is blue and thus go through life perfectly unaware that your eyesight is in any way different.

Second, tetrachromats don't actually see an extra color, they just have higher color resolution in part of the spectrum. Say us trichromats have a 16 bit (per RGB channel) color resolution, tetrachromats have 16 bit red/blue channels but 20 bits to represent green.

Ok, those exact numbers are probably complete nonsense, but the point is tetrachromats don't see red, green, and blue. The "green" wavelengths are still green, they just have two receptors to pick it up and thus higher green resolution.

Or I might be completely wrong, I don't know. It just seems weird that extra equipment to perceive something our brains are already perceiving should give rise to completely new unclassified experiences (like a wholly new color). If we were to push this into f.ex. infrared, though..

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Miamicanes]

> First of all, do you think tetrachromats know they perceive colors differently?

Actually, yes. I read about an interview with a British woman who's believed to be a genuine tetrachromat. One thing that came up was the fact that color photographs and TV never look "right" to her. Prior to learning about tetrachromaticy, she always just thought she was "picky".

The 20-bit example is a good one. I'm actually trichromanomalous. In terms that make sense to most Slashdotters, most people with statistically normal color perception have roughly 17-bit green, 16-bit red, and 15-bit blue fidelity. I'm missing a red bit. The result is that I made it to my mid-20s before ever finding out there was officially anything wrong. Up to then, I just thought I had bad taste in colors. It turns out, my taste is as good as everyone else's... there's just a slightly wider range of reds that I think look good with a given mixture of blue and green than most. If I take a Munsell color test (the one where you have little cylinders that vary by a subtle fraction of a shade and have to be quickly arranged without scrutiny), I screw up the last two in the red-green series about 50% of the time... they both look like grayish peachy-beige. It happens because the frequency of my main red peak is slightly higher (and closer to my green peak) than 99.9% of the population's. In other words, I'm part of the group that's worse than 99.9%, but within the best 99.99%.

I'll never mistake a red traffic light for a green one, but I'm paralyzed with fear anytime I have to make decisions about color. The hardest part about remodeling my living room wasn't replacing the drywall, rewiring the entertainment wiring, or the custom moulding... it was picking the damn shades of off-white for the walls, ceiling, and trim. I agonized over it for weeks, driven by mortal fear that I'd accidentally pick a subtly brownish-beige that was too pink, or a subtly creamy-white that was too green. For subtly-anomalous trichromats, beige is a deadly minefield of potential embarrassments.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[mcgrew]

They can already bring a normal eye to better than 20/20 vision. Almost all baseball players heve LASIK surgery these days, and I have an implant in my left eye that gives me 20/16 vision. Unfortunately the other eye is still 20/400.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[holmstar]

Mantis shrimp can also differentiate the polarization of light. And not just in two directions, they can also differentiate circularly polarized light.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[The_mad_linguist]

If you replace the lens in your eye with an artificial one, you can see into the near UV.

Apparently your retina is sensitive to frequencies that normally get filtered out.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Trahloc]

Ditto, I went from 20/1050 and 20/950 to 20/20 in both, if my eyes aren't dry almost 20/10. But I have chronic dry eyes sadly, in any case I'm absolutely ecstatic with my results.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[The_mad_linguist]

Getting darkvision isn't all sunshine and roses.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/4601

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[bill_mcgonigle]

trichromanomalous

Is there another word that's useful here? Google fails on this one.

I'm somewhat red-green deficient, but none of the normal color tests fit my eyes' vision. I also see very well at night and can see a little bit into the UV that my friends can't (I nearly got marked down in high school chemistry class for reporting a spectrum line that the teacher said wasn't there. We looked it up in the book and it was right where it was supposed to be, on the edge of near-UV). But matching earth-tones is pretty tough.

My daughter sees color differently from either my wife or me. Hrm, I wonder if she's tetra.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[plastbox]

Actually, yes. I read about an interview with a British woman who's believed to be a genuine tetrachromat. One thing that came up was the fact that color photographs and TV never look "right" to her. Prior to learning about tetrachromaticy, she always just thought she was "picky".

Still not convinced. Why would a picture of a real scene trigger different signals in her brain than the scene itself? If she looks at her lawn, it's going to look normal because that's the way her lawn has looked to her all her life. If she looks at a picture of her lawn (disregarding compression etc.), why should that look "not right"?

For subtly-anomalous trichromats, beige is a deadly minefield of potential embarrassments.

Unlike most normal sighted men, to whom beige is a not-so-deadly field of.. well.. white'ish. If you ever want to repaint (and you live by yourself) just pick whatever colors you like. As soon as some woman moves in, she's going to redecorate the place anyways, even if it's already the Taj Mahal of interior decoration.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Oersoep]

I doubt extra colors would do a person much good. Your brain wouldn't know how to handle it and you couldn't describe normal colors anymore... And you couldn't sleep because of all that infrared from your eyelids. Maybe it would work with babies growing up with it. And think of the goths wearing all kinds of colorful black! Cop: "Sir, you ignored an octarine traffic light. I'll have to give you a fine for that."

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Oersoep]

"Why would a picture of a real scene trigger different signals in her brain than the scene itself?" Because the paint/ink/leds/whatever that're used may be different from the real thing for her, but perfectly on-spot in the eyes of the photo company.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[mcgrew]

LASIK or implants?

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[Trahloc]

LASIK, Dr Tooma out in Irvine, CA. The implants sound like an interesting idea but I stuck with the lasers. I'm not one who blogs often but I wrote down my experience so I wouldn't forget it and perhaps help friends/family who were on the fence.

Re:Next step: Tetrachromatism

[mcgrew]

I guessed LASIK. For a young person that would be the way to go. It's relatively inexpensive --implants are about $7k each, insurance won't pay unless you have a cataract and even then they'll only pay for the old monofocal implants. I paid about a thousand bucks out of pocket for my accomodating implant, if I'd gotten the old fashioned kind they'd have paid the whole bill. Secondly, implants are far more invasive and dangerous and can have extremely serious side effects. And, I believe for most people (especially younger folks) LASIK is more effective; my surgeon said my outcome was far better than most.

When you get old enough to need cataract surgery, I'm sure the accomodating lens will be the only one used, as the patent will have run out by then and there will be no reason for anyone to get a monofocal IOL (that I know of; I'm not an eye surgeon).

The surgeon who implanted my IOL, Dr. Yeh of the Prarie Eye Center, also does LASIK.

BTW, you should mirror your blog as a slashdot journal, more people will likely see it.

Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm colour blind - bring it on.

I've always wondered what makes red so special.... never been able to see what all the fuss is about. Maybe one day I'l know.

Re:Excellent

[c0d3r]

I'm red color blind too.. and most of the items and clothing I own are red.. I even drive a cherry red camaro. I can see better in the dark and I have a sharp resolution.

curing blindness

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't quite understand how their methods stopped the monkeys masturbating. And the damage can be reversed?! If you can't trust nuns, who can you trust?

Re:Internet business advertising

[overbaud]

I like your other website more ... http://www.howtospeak-engrish.com/

Programming Implications

[ignavus]

This definitely has programming implications for me. If you ever have had to design web pages for a superior with color blindness, and they insist on choosing or refusing the colors you want to use, you know the programming problems that color blindness can cause.

"This page looks best after gene therapy" - hmm, I like it.

Re:Programming Implications

[plastbox]

Or what if you (like me) enjoy web development but have a sense of color harmonies and good design equivalent to that of Hellen Keller...

Re:Programming Implications

[janwedekind]

I would like to get a cortex with build-in syntax highlighting. More colour channels would also help of course.

Isn't that special

[HangingChad]

Color blind chimps everywhere rejoice.

Cerebral achromatopsia

[mindbrane]

Cerebral achromatopsia will give you a different take on colour blindness as a result of brain damage. Localized brain damage can drain all the colour from your world and leave you in a world of the grey hued zombies. What we tend to think of as our vision isn't just a straight run from the retina back to the occipital lobe, and, much of what we think of a vision is a complex production of various brain modules.

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[NoYob]

Localized brain damage can drain all the colour from your world and leave you in a world of the grey hued zombies.

Oh, shit! I bordered up myself in my house, held off the zombie cops and all the other zombies - for nothing?! They weren't zombies?! I'm the crazy one?!

Nah. Back off you zombies!!!

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[sumthinboutjesus]

To summarize for those who don't want to wade through the wikipedia article, achromatopsia is color blindness resulting from damage to the cortex, the outer layer of the cells in the brain that are generally responsible for all the higher-order processing of the sensory information our nervous system collects. Essentially, this means that your eyes are still functioning normally, but your brain is no longer able to interpret the signals properly; this is normally due to brain damage as result of loss of blood flow, often from a traumatic injury or stroke etc, although there are many other causes, some of which are unknown (idiopathic). This is certainly a different cause of color blindness, but I'm unsure as of why it's being discussed here because the treatments talked about in the article would only correct defects on the functional components of the eye. Correcting a problem in the cortex through a medical treatment is something that is most likely a good ways into the future; it's much more likely that your brain will spontaneously reroute the functional processing to a different undamaged part of the cortex and as a result recover full or partial color vision. If that doesn't happen, which often it doesn't, then it's unlikely that the problem will be fixed.

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[pclminion]

Whoa. From the Wiki article, it sounds like this condition renders one incapable of even imagining color in visual imagery, not just seeing it.

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[Brian Gordon]

That is so cool. I love that some people don't even realize they're seeing grey. They can still name colors perfectly fine (they can pick out the "blue flavored" gatorates in the supermarket at a glance), but they don't have the experience of color available to their consciousness. This sort of deconstruction of consciousness's functions is, IMO, the strongest evidence against Cartesian dualism.

This reminds me of an experiment Bill Nye did. He wore a pair of goggles that flipped his vision upside-down. After a few days (I think) of headaches he completely got used to it and was able to function normally with it upside down. I think I remember him saying that it didn't seem upside down to him, and when they took off the goggles at the end the world seemed upside down again. The really fascinating part was that there wasn't a moment of "flipping" during the experiment: the upside-down image became his expected norm. In other words, the optic nerves don't correspond directly to some raster format where they're tied directly into our Video In consciousness jack. They're interpreted as needed and presented to our consciousness experience post-processing.

And the simple experiment didn't prove this but I suspect that there's no relative relation between optic nerves either. Like they're just haphazardly bundled together and shipped off to the brain, and the brain's processing adaptively grows to sort and make sense of the random signals. So I suspect that if you sever the optic nerve and connect the nerves randomly your brain will eventually be able to just interpret the new signals as the norm like Bill Nye did.

The reason I suspect that is because of the really cool electronic sensing technology that's been developed in the last few decades. I think I've read something like they can just send signals into nerves (obviously with sensible modulation/frequency/amplitude) and make the signals vary in some way based on the external world and after awhile patients are able to sense it naturally. Like audio signals to the eardrums and such.

Oh yeah I found it. This. By just shocking areas of the tongue a blind patient can develop a kind of sight. If the top left pixel is dark you shock the top left area, etc. Again, I think that you could completely mix up all of the inputs and after awhile it would be perfectly natural.

Think of feeling with your hand. A priori you have no idea which nerves in that thick bundle of nerves correspond to a particular finger. But by observing and noticing that when you twitch a certain way a particular finger moves and when you touch something you get an input only on particular nerves you eventually build up an intuitive grasp of which nerve is which (handled transparently of course). The problem is complex and we see side effects all the time. I'm sure everyone's had the experience of being in a weird position with their arms or legs twisted up and you can't really tell which limb is which. You may experimentally try to move a particualar leg that you see and move the wrong one!

This whole field is fascinating

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[rgspb]

I always find it interesting how some color-blind people know that they don't see a color the same way a non color-blind person does. There have been quite a few posts here stating how they see the color and then describing what the non color-blind person sees. I'm color-blind (red/green) and don't have any idea I'm seeing something different until someone brings it up. I didn't know peanut butter was NOT red until I was 30. It's how I always saw it and since normally the color of peanut butter is not a topic of discussion it just never came up. (it finally came up in a radio commercial. the kid asks mom "why is peanut butter brown"? I looked at my friend and said "what a dumb question, everybody knows peanut butter is red"!) So I have no idea how someone else sees the color of peanut butter. For me, part of it is a learned thing. Grass is green, everybody knows that, so my mind sees green, but my eyes see brown. It's like a picture of a frog, like a cartoon picture. The assumption for me is that it would be green, because cartoon frogs (not just Kermit) are usually green. So I would see the brown frog but say it is green unless I'm not thinking. Some have asked me if I color-blind with red/green then why did I think peanut butter was red. Because it LOOKS red. I can see red and green, but they don't always come across as red or green. Then you get into all the shades. Pink is a tough one for me, sometimes I don't see the pink at all and other times it looks grey or silver (think pink car). Dark colors are worse for me, I don't even try to separate my own socks. I'm not real sure I'd want to see normal colors at this point anyway, wouldn't I have to learn my colors all over again? Wouldn't I see non-problem colors differently too? I did try one of the red contacts on a few years ago and that's what happened. While my problem colors were improved, my non-problem colors were hurt. I think I'll just pass on the eye injections!

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[Runaway1956]

"That is so cool. I love that some people don't even realize they're seeing grey."

I really don't think that you've read enough, or else that you have failed to understand what you have read.

I have both red and green color deficiency. My world is not gray. I see gray, as a distinct color, and I can see many shades of grey.

Instead of seeing gray where you see a shade of green, I see green. I am unable to distinguish very many shades of green - they sort of blend together. Where you might see 12 different colors in the grass, I may see one or two, but, it's all green. No gray, just green.

Early to middle spring is an awesome time for me, especially on a brightly lit day right after a rain. I look into the forest, and I can see a variety of colors that are visible to me at no other time. The different species of trees actually look DIFFERENT. There is no way in hell that I can name the colors, I can't describe them, but the forest actually looks green and alive, as it does at no other time. I suppose that it is entirely due to water droplets diffracting the light bouncing off the trees. But, again, as the light fades, or as the water dries off the vegetation, the leaves don't gray out for me - they just become a more uniform, more dull "green".

Red is very similar, but the effects are much less noticeable - probably because there is no place in nature that red just overwhelms everything else. Maroon and related colors tend to fade toward black for me, unless brightly lit.

Oddly though, I am unable to pick a bright red flower out of a field of green. That was one of the first hints that I was "color blind" as a child. Mother and I would be riding along, she says, "Oh, what beautiful roses!" and point. I would search and search, and never find that stupid rose bush.

Again - there was no gray spot in the field of green - those little red spots just blended into green.

Bahhh - I know that I've failed to explain what I see. Some day, you try explaining color to someone who has been blind from birth. You'll get the idea.

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[Citizen of Earth]

One could imagine a cell-phone application that tells you the color at a crosshair in the camera input in a couple of different color models and using closest-match simple words like "pink" or "reddish pink". Then you could find out the true color of something just by whipping out your cell phone.

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[am 2k]

There are some nature paintings from color-blind people. Those are very enlightening, they don't look like nature at all for non-color blind people like me.

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[Rogue Haggis Landing]

There are some nature paintings from color-blind people. Those are very enlightening, they don't look like nature at all for non-color blind people like me.

My parents first discovered my color blindness when I was in kindergarten. I came home with a crayon drawing of my gerbils, in which I had captured them with in yellow-green. To me that looked more or less correct, or the best I could do with the Crayola 64 box. So imagine a world in which gerbils are more or less yellow-green and you've got my variant of color blindness (or color vision deficiency as my ophthalmologist would insist you call it).

Something that people occasionally notice is that all of the artwork I have up in my apartment is overwhelmingly blue and yellow. These are two basic colors that my receptors handle perfectly well, so they appear very bright to me and end up what I want when I'm looking for something to cheer up the room. Red and green just aren't very exciting. I mean, I understand the concept of "fire engine red" intellectually, but when I look at it I see a pretty subdued color. It's red, sure, but red is a pretty relaxed, cool color, right? It sure looks that way to me!

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[agnosticnixie]

TBH, I'm not colorblind and have never understood the cultural understanding of colors that exists in the west, just, intellectually, sure, physically? Are you kidding me?

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI there is Cerebral Achromatopsia which is caused by a brain injury and there is Congenital Achromatopsia which is a genetic condition. Similar names but different kinds of suck. Since I have the latter lets keep messing with those monkeys.

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[mcgrew]

In college I learned that seeing is almost all done in the brain; the eye just sends signals that the brain decodes and turns into a picture of reality (or what passes for reality).

Re:Cerebral achromatopsia

[holmstar]

What are you talking about?

Yo Gene Therapy, I'm really happy for you

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm gonna let you finish, but Gene Roddenberry was one of the best genes of all time. OF ALL TIME.

Re:Yo Gene Therapy, I'm really happy for you

[Vintermann]

Better than Gene Ray, at least. Or Gene Raskin.

TetraChromacy?

[mcrbids]

A vanishingly small percentage of the population actually sees four colors. To them, we're somewhat color blind as well. I wonder if this type of therapy can be used to give us 25% blindies another color to check out?

Re:TetraChromacy?

[telomerewhythere]

TetraChromancy? Four zombies from one infected dead body? Scary!!

Re:TetraChromacy?

[Tablizer]

I've never seen a study that verifies these "special" humans can actually detect the extra color channel.
     

Viral videos! Or, How the Future Looks

[telomerewhythere]

I wonder about the mechanism of how the gene goes from virus to DNA... (in the ?proper? place) If it was just as simple as get fixes near where they need to go, that would be awesome. What about genes for the UV cones (?rods?) that birds have? Or the EM wave properties of certain avians? Will it only work this easy where something is lost? If not, Meet tomorrow's new warrior, able to see in the dark, radar, cell phone waves and electricity...

Taking it one step further, why not give them (tomorrow's warrior) the unmutated myosin gene, thus able to be 5 to 7 times stronger kilo for kilo of muscle?

Or we could just help people with genetic problems, making the human race just a little better as a race. (hopefully)

This is ALL kinds of awesome.

[jeffb (2.718)]

First, it's a great achievement just to get the protein appearing sustainably in the right place. More importantly, though, this provides color perception in adult animals whose brains have never received red/green differential stimuli? I never would've guessed that was possible.

It gives me hope that, when we get retinal or cortical implants that can accept more than three bands of color, our brains will actually be able to handle them. Bring on all fifty-seven colors of the rainbow!

Impossible to imagine

[Nyeerrmm]

As someone who is color-blind (severely red/green), this news just astounds me.

The basic fact is that I have no idea, no point of reference to even understand what it is I don't see. It is impossible for me to imagine what "Purple" actually is, since to me it is merely a dark blue. Not hard to imagine, like an unusual experience is, but as far as I'm concerned impossible to imagine.

Until seeing this article today, I had assumed that I would never be able to understand what most people saw. Having the possibility open up is simply mind-blowing. Imagine what kind of leap that would be for more serious conditions like actual blindness.

Re:Impossible to imagine

[Mashiki]

My uncle and cousin are red/green color blind(severe), runs in our family. I know where you're coming from. I really hope this will becoming out to the public 'soonish'. This is a huge breakthrough.

Re:Impossible to imagine

[Hurricane78]

Gene therapy is really the only actual proper cure for genetic defects know to man. And I think in retrospect, we will see it as one of the greatest inventions ever.

I mean imagine the possibilities, if you can change any genetics in your body at will!
Sure, as always, there will be downsides, and there will be a "early alpha" phase. But what we get far surpasses anything bad! And besides: Who will try to stop every human on the planet form doing research in that area or using that knowledge? ^^

The first thing that I will do, is add the "can't get fat" mutation that my brother has. :D

Re:Impossible to imagine

[AF_Cheddar_Head]

It's nice to see someone else that thinks the color purple is a conspiracy that all the "normal" vision carry out on us. I can't tell you how many "purple" shirts my daughter has convinced me to buy. There is no such thing as "purple" it's all a conspiracy.

Re:Impossible to imagine

[tsstahl]

I hope it is not too anticlimactic for you. Stuff sucks the same in B&W and color. At least with black and white you get an aura of nostalgia. :) Seriously, this _is_ way cool.

Re:Impossible to imagine

[VValdo]

It is impossible for me to imagine what "Purple" actually is, since to me it is merely a dark blue.

Oh... be careful what you wish for. If you've lived without the color purple your entire life (and I assume you don't mean the book or movie), and suddenly it appears, who knows what effect this may have... ? Suddenly eggplants and bruises and certain over-the-top prose will connect and run together... things you've never associated before, you'll now see the hidden connections... it'll blow your mind. Soon, everything will become a 24-hour LSDesque trip with Grimace and Barney drinking grape juice with the LA Lakers... you'll grasp the subtleties of "Flying Purple People Eater" (is he purple? Or does he eat purple people?") The horror!

Then again, when the Tetrachromacy gene is available, I'll be first in line...

W

Re:Impossible to imagine

[Sir_Lewk]

Purple looks like artificial grape tastes. In other words, you arn't missing much ;)

Re:Impossible to imagine

[ZiakII]

The LA Lakers are really purple? Or are you screwing with my colorblind eyes? I always thought they were blue =(

Re:Impossible to imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, color-blind people don't usually see in black and white. They're usually just a color or two which then screws up every other color that needs the colors they are missing.

What they see is not comparable to what you see when you look at a black-and-white photo or TV show.

Re:Impossible to imagine

[Tablizer]

As someone who is color-blind (severely red/green), this news just astounds me. The basic fact is that I have no idea, no point of reference to even understand what it is I don't see. It is impossible for me to imagine what "Purple" actually is...

I suppose for us color-enabled people, an analogy might be trying to comprehend what it feels like to have a vagina.

Then again, for slashdot, merely what it's like to touch one :-)
     

Re:Impossible to imagine

[MadUndergrad]

They're really purple. And yellow.

Re:Impossible to imagine

[kjllmn]

I think actual blindness since birth has been proven to work like you would have expected this to work, that is, your brain is not capable of interpreting the signals even if they can be made to occur/reach it. (I guess it must have to do with age though, I can't see - no pun - why a six-months-old wouldn't be able to learn to see.) If this is so, apparently knowing how to see is of a different order of magnitude than what colors you see. Anyhow, it would be truly amazing to hear from an ex-colorblind person about the experience of seeing a to him completely new color.

Re:Impossible to imagine

[Spacezilla]

Question. If you're as much a nerd as everyone else here, why haven't you a long time ago made some kind of filter for looking at pictures online?

I think if I were colorblind, and could tell red and green apart, but not blue or purple, I would surf the net for a few days with a filter that turned all blues red and all greens purple. Then I would suddenly know the difference between blue and purple, and I would know things like what color the Lakers are.

What's the point? I'm not sure there is one, I think I'd just be curious, like I'm curious and try to find out more about the parts of Earth I haven't seen.

Re:Impossible to imagine

[PGC]

In your childhood your brains trains on how to interpret 2d images that come in from your eyes in 3d references. If you were blind from birth, your brain skipped that phase and later on (when blindness suddenly dissappears for whatsoever reason) won't be able to interpret the 2d images provided by your eyes. With colors however it is merely an extension of your already known palette... perhaps you might interpret the new colors in a way that's different from other people, but you will be able to recognise them. (perhaps it will become a 24 hour acid trip ... )

Re:Impossible to imagine

[plastbox]

If you're in for some amazing stuff, read up on sensory substitution, in particular the works of Professor Paul Bach-y-Rita. Even people who have been born blind quickly learn to use the TVSS (tactile visual substitution system). The system causes activity in the visual cortex and when the researchers suddenly zoomed the camera (the patients "eye") (s)he reacted naturally, as any sighted person would if the world suddenly came flying closer.

It is well recognized that sensory substitution systems (like TVSS, cochlear implants, etc.) provide a "mechanical" sense but critics whine about these systems lacking "quality". One man (born blind), when shown a picture of his wife through the TVSS, was disappointed that it didn't evoke any emotion.

Wife-jokes aside, no shit, Sherlock! I'm not a scientist but even I can see the problem and solution here. If course knowing that the person you see or hear for the first time is someone you love isn't going to trigger any emotion. The sight of that persons face or sound of his/her voice isn't tied into any of your memories of your life shared with that person. Wear the device for a few years though, actually see your wife every time you make love or experience something else together, and tell me her face isn't going to evoke any "quality"!

Long rant short: Sensory substitution ROCKS, and I WANT to experience new sensory modalities!

Re:Impossible to imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

The article makes it clear the monkeys did learn to see color. It took months and at this point it's only speculation on what happened during those months.

Re:Impossible to imagine

[MistrX]

This is certainly great news for the colourblind people amongst us! And I hope this research gets enough funding.

Maybe it's also an idea to find out what happens if you can make the therapy so that animals who have a natural colourblindedness can see a full spectrum. I wonder if that is possible aswell. :)

Re:Impossible to imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

IDK about blindness, but most people I know on the deafness spectrum tend to find it tedious at best, and I've heard of more people having CI removed than implanted, excepting the random audiophile who had the "bad luck" of becoming deaf older and will ruin themselves on wonky aids and implants the same way they did on wonky playback gear as hearing people.

Re:Impossible to imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would it be a defect and yet tetrachromacy is not treated as a goal. Oh, right, we don't really want to correct people but to enforce normalcy/mediocrity, and conceal the fact that everyone is a mutant and that gene combinations are a crapshoot (what are you breaking if you change that line of code, oops).

I, for one, welcome my new eugenist overlords. Especially the day where they're lined up on the wall (again).

Re:Impossible to imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

You're just limited to human genes either!

Want to glow at night? Sure!

Want to conduct electricity for your iPod via electric eel glands? Why not!

Want to develop a nice winter coat of fur? Go for it!

The possibilities are truly endless. I can't wait for the day when we can get viral vector 'blanks' from Best Buy:Bio and insert them into a computer peripheral to download whatever genes we want. A quick injection later and viola...

A New hope

[mackhaX0r]

Giving a color blind person the ability to tell the difference ( I know its not for humans yet, just thinking ahead) between red and green has got to be the equivalent of a homeless person winning 10,000 dollars. It opens up a whole new world of #FF0000 and #00A550, like something you thought you would never get, it sounded cool, but you couldn't see it, and then finally obtaining that sole item or in this case the ability to see the difference certain colors.

Re:A New hope

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting anon since I moderated.

I think I'm the only colorblind here in slashdot (and judging by the comments, there are a lot of colorblind ppl. here) that is not overly happy about the idea of a cure. Yes, it sounds interesting to be able to see what colors most people see, but I think that my colorblindness is something I may not want to lose.

I'm not a red/green colorblind, so I never confused a green light with a red light, and I didn't notice I was actually colorblind until I was 25, never got a problem derived from my colorblindness more than not being able to tell the resistance value without checking the chart. Enhanced nightvision and immunity to camouflage are actually advantages most colorblind people enjoy.

Re:A New hope

[mcgrew]

I think I have an idea of what it would feel like. After being severely nearsighted and wearing coke bottle glasses all my life, I got a cataract in my left eye from some prescription steroid eyedrops and got one of the new acommodating IOLs implanted. If you don't wear glasses you can't imagine what it's like to wake up in the middle of the night and actually be able to read the clock without searching for you glasses!

I've had the implant since 2006 and I still marvel. I imagine seeing "true*" colors would feel just l felt when I could read the clock on the recovery room wall.

*Color blind people see color, they just don't see the same colors you do. It makes me wonder if any two people see exactly the same colors; my dad's colorblind, and I've wondered that all my life.

Re:A New hope

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting anon, same reason - most of the cases where people complain about the effects colorblindness has on them are also heavily cultural, and seem to be things that in a situation where most of humanity was colorblind wouldn't happen (probably how these tetrachromatic people must feel since they, too are a minority) - aka people who can't make a distinction between the physical/mental aspects of a specific disability and the cultural aspects of disability - that happens a lot with people who lost their hearing older as opposed to people who are born deaf or become so as youth in their teens and twenties - I try to have as much compassion as I can for people who lose old since I do have a couple decades adaptation on them, but the stupid Helen Keller quote about deafness has become a bit of a berserk button of late)

Barriers to Human Usage

[sumthinboutjesus]

These are quite exciting developments obviously, especially in regards to the treatment of the myriad of other visual pathologies this approach is applicable to treating. However, the FDA and other relevant medical procedure approving bodies are notoriously against the use of viruses to treat conditions in humans, at least in the US. This is largely due to the nature of viruses; they can mutate rapidly and easily, can quickly become pathogenic, as well as migrate to and interfere with other cells and tissues. I would be somewhat surprised to see a treatment like this based on a viral vector approved even in the medium-term future; most likely the same team or other researchers will develop a different vector that can be proven to be safe and has the ability to more specifically target retinal cells using some sort of CD marker or other retinal-cell specific protein marker. Hopefully this work will be done expeditiously, as these treatments would be a godsend to people suffering from eye pathologies that don't fall within the typical poor eyesight treated by vision correction and/or Lasik.

Colors not yet invented

[Anonymous Coward]

But when will genetic manipulation allow me to see more colors than ROYGBIV?

Preferably, I would like to be able to see the color 'fart' so that I could avoid it.

We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenged"

[Sam_In_The_Hills]

One day my chromatically challenged brothers and I will rise up and take control. Then the changes will begin. Let's see how you "It's not light blue, it's teal" people handle traffic lights with three lens but only two colors, one of which is white so it matches the street lights at night. Emergency vehicles that might actually only be tow trucks and smarmy calls from the network engineer "The color of the led will change on the ethernet card if it's working". Maybe for you rainbow head but not for me. Once we're in charge there will be be other changes like no more colorized movies. Hell we just might black and whiterize them all just for spite. Just you wait. On that proud day we will hoist our many banners and just like always we will hear you say, as you always say, "You know that doesn't match your socks, right?"

Skeptical

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as the a member of the "would like to be a member of the red/green appreciation society" society, er, I'm skeptical about this. I have no doubt that the monkeys can now perceive red and green as I saw the video (well I think I saw the video, there was a lot of blue in it), but I doubt that they can put what they're seeing in the correct context.

With my HUGE amount of biology and genetics training (high school, 6 months) I expect the brain has to have some sort of internal map that says "this cone is blue" "this cone is green" for the colour detection to make sense. In electronics we get around this by having a rigid grid of RGB pixels. Biology isn't so neat and the rods are scattered randomly around the back of the eye, but the brain knows which is which.

I expect that, while the monkey's altered cone is detecting red and green wavelengths, the brain is still mapping it to something else. The only way we'd be able to tell is if a human were to undertake the therapy. If/when this happens I expect he (usually he) will say "oooo blue" or "oooo purple" when in fact he is being shown something red.

Now this could all be completely wrong if the cones somehow encode their colour signal and the brain simply interprets the impulse, so rather than "50% on" the cone sends "50% and I'm red" to the brain.

Re:Viral videos! Or, How the Future Looks

[PIBM]

Taking it one step further, why not give them (tomorrow's warrior) the unmutated myosin gene, thus able to be 5 to 7 times stronger kilo for kilo of muscle?

Or we could just help people with genetic problems, making the human race just a little better as a race. (hopefully)

Because they will simply break their bones when excerting their force ?

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[QuantumG]

They wouldn't let me join the army because I am "color blind". No-one mentioned this to me when I was in Cadets, and it's not like the topic didn't come up. I remember one day we all lined up in front of a field:

Instructor: Right. Everyone, listen up. Today we are doing a sweep search exercise. Hidden in this field are 6 soldiers, all highly trained in the skill of camouflage. You will form a single line, one arm length seperation, and walk this field. Be attentive, they may be right in front of them and you won't see them.

[I raise my hand]

Instructor: Yes cadet, what is it?

Me: Do you mean [pointing] that guy, that guy, that guy, that guy, that guy, and that lady?

Instructor: [Sigh]. Ok smart-ass, you're dismissed. Everyone else, turn around while we reconfigure.

But hey, at least they won't draft me.

 

Nitpick

[Random5]

Maybe I'm being picky but if they ju,st treated it, it should be a 'formerly untreatable' type of blindness. Great news for the colourblind though

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[AF_Cheddar_Head]

Right on brother.

And by the way all of you that color-code the pie charts in Powerpoint without patterns, you are the first to go.

Glasses for Color Blindness Correction

[c0d3r]

I've heard of glasses that help correct colorblindness and found the following link.

http://www.dyslexia-help.co.uk/chromagen_colour_deficiency.html

They even have stuff for dyslexia.. weird.

Whats interesting is i can partially pass the tests and I don't land into any of the categories of color blindness. If i blur my eyes i can pass the tests, although i remember it being difficult in the "real" test.

Re:Glasses for Color Blindness Correction

[Anonymous Coward]

As another victim of the purple conspiracy I once had an assesment for contact lenses that 'corrected' Colour blindness. They were not suitable for me as the improvement was only slight, but for the hour I wore them I walked in an alien world of bright, vibrant even fluorescent colours. If that was 'true' colour sight then I want me some gene therapy now!

Re:So... will this be covered under ObamaCare?

[AF_Cheddar_Head]

Damn right it will be covered. If you never had to deal with the idiot question--What color is that, and that, and that?--you have noooooo idea how stupid you "normals" can be.

Re:Viral videos! Or, How the Future Looks

[telomerewhythere]

Taking it one step further, why not give them (tomorrow's warrior) the unmutated myosin gene, thus able to be 5 to 7 times stronger kilo for kilo of muscle?

Or we could just help people with genetic problems, making the human race just a little better as a race. (hopefully)

Because they will simply break their bones when excerting their force ?

yeah, I thought of that too. But, bones respond to stress... Stronger with more stress. Why do not Chimps break their bones. If answer is genetic, then maybe viruses can do double duty...

I wonder what is the difference between chimp bones and human's

most scientists considered impossible

[Anonymous Coward]

The best science is the science that prove to "most scientists considered impossible" to be possible.
Keep it up mad sciences! You rule!

You know what they say:

[Tablizer]

"Monkey see, monkey blue"

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[dafing]

Very cool story, I have heard about similar things happening before. Have you ever tested to see just how much better you can "see through" camouflage etc? I feel a little silly asking, but do you think its something you could describe to someone who is "not colour blind"? Funny huh, a "blind" person can see the truth :)

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[QuantumG]

Sure, this is the best article on the subject I've seen:

      http://critiquewall.com/2007/12/10/blindness

Enjoy.

Oh come on

[Anonymous Coward]

You already get an extra feat, extra skillpoints... And now you want a darkvision 60'? Geez. Overpowered much?

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[MadUndergrad]

Wait, you're color-blind, but you could distinguish more colors than other people?

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[dafing]

Thank you very much :)

I never thought that seeing "thermal" maps might be affected. I had a friend who found green and red to be the same shade, we could never find a way to agree on what colours looked like. I have seen the dot tests and other simulated images before, but never as well done as on that webpage. Thank you again.

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[QuantumG]

Camouflage works by dressing those trying to hide in similar colors to their surroundings. You unevolved people with your "normal" color vision are a monoculture that are easily fooled by such tricks. Us mutants have an evolutionary advantage ;)

Re:geology rocks...

[snikulin]

Not as much as applied physics rocks.

Cheap fix for the colorblind: tinted glasses

[Anonymous Coward]

A black and white seeing person can easily distinguish between red and green by wearing glasses, one red and one green. Any object that is red will appear pale seen through the red filter and dark seen through the green filter. Any object that is green will appear dark seen through the red filter and pale seen through the green filter.

So as long as both your eyes see the object, you will know whether it is red or green. You will look like a dork to everybody, though (with the exception of other colorblind people and slashdot readers).

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[migloo]

No, we the chromatically challenged have the same data processing equipment as everyone else, we just use it differently. That is why we are smarter too!

Sure about that?

[Anonymous Coward]

What if the monkeys where too stupid to choose the right color,
and after the therapy just have become much smarter!

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[Kjella]

Wait, you're color-blind, but you could distinguish more colors than other people?

Think of it more this way, in a graphics application you could do RGB separation. If your image is vastly dominated by one color, say green, it might be a lot easier to see differences in the red/blue color spectrum if green is zeroed out. Now the eye is a bit more complicated than that but it's the same principle.

It reminds of a blind test I saw of the mp3 format - the winner who could distinguish mp3s the best had an ear injury. The result was that the tone masking mp3 uses didn't work for him because he couldn't hear all frequencies as well as a normal person, so he heard sounds that would have been drowned out for others.

So yes, even though you see or hear less in total, you might actually see or hear more in the given situation. But I'd call that an annoyance most of the time since most illusions are entertainment, not soldiers hiding to kill you.

Calvin's dad explained that won't be a problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/calvin-father-on-black-and-white-pictures.gif

Just wait until you can perceive the great tetrachromatic paintings made by the old Masters

Re: flipping nerves and vision

[An anonymous Frank]

I remember hearing about doctors just reconnecting many nerves in the lower back after an accident, randomly since it couldn't be known which were which, and after some physical therapy, the patient learned to walk again under the new "wiring".

I have one questions/wonder about the "filpping the vision" experiment; what about reading, was he able to read as normal, even though the text was now upside down?

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[bwalling]

Which country? My uncle is red-green color blind and served in the US Army for years.

How fortuitous

[xednieht]

My driver monkey has a bad habit of running red lights.

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[shadowofwind]

I think that part of the issue is that some 'color blind' people aren't actually impaired, they just assign colors to wavebands in not quite the majority manner. For example, grass actually has more 'orange'-wavelength light in it than green, but most people see it as green, being hyper sensitive to green. If you are somewhat less sensitive to green and see it more as orange, they call you color-blind.

According to the standard color tests, I see no red, none. Yet I do have a vivid experience of red, and I'm in about 95% agreement with other people about which things are red. I suspect that some of the people who make confident pronouncements about other people's color experiences actually don't know what they are talking about.

I'll admit to seeing anything ...

[Lazy Jones]

... including new colors, after a few injections into my eyes, in order to make the torturers stop ...

Egads, homeopathic Google ad in the RSS feed

[Quay42]

I was saddened to see an add for Homeopathic "medication" in the RSS feed for this article. Obviously the editors don't have direct control over the Google Ads, but should be a way for certain things to *not* show up on a science and technology based site. Homeopathy is most definitely not science.

Re:Egads, homeopathic Google ad in the RSS feed

[The_mad_linguist]

I disagree. I'm not entirely certain how you can consider something not to be science when it's something that's as well documented, tested, and publicized as the placebo effect.

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[Anonymous Coward]

My housemate is similar. He can't distinguish bright yellow from bright green or blue from purple, but he CAN see red very clearly. It's as if he has red added to everything he sees, rather than subtracted from it. I've yet to find any mention of colorblindness that matches this description.

State vision tests

[maxwells_deamon]

Some states in the US have color vision tests before you get a drivers license.

I have never lived in one of those states. Do they actually test you for color vision when you apply?

This is one reason I will never live in West Virgina.

Has anyone here been refused a license due to color vision?

For those outside the US: In order to drive anywhere in the US you need to get a license from the state you live in. Each state has its own vision rules. I can get a license in Arizona where they do not test color vision and drive in West Virginia, but if I moved there I might not be able to drive untill I moved away.

PS: I have been driving for 30 years with no tickets.

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[mcgrew]

Things must have changed since the Korean war, because my dad was in the 101st airbourne and he's color blind. They wouldn't let him in the USAF though, and that's the branch he wanted to be in. Not sure if it was because he was colorblind or because he was missing part of one of his fingers.

My dog

[jim_v2000]

wants this.

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[Alarindris]

What? When the recruiters came to my highschool they had the colorblindness tests and said I couldn't join because I am colorblind. My grandpa wanted to join the army in WWII but he had to settle for the Seabees because he was colorblind. Your uncle is lying to you, or he was in some different branch.

Re:We prefer to be called "Chromatically Challenge

[The_mad_linguist]

Yeah, in World War II, when those with severe red-green or other forms of colorblindness were pressed into service as bombardiers instead of other branches, in view of their ability to "see through" colored camouflage, and not be distracted by what would be, to the normally sighted, a confusing and deceiving configuration of colors.