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Malaysia Seeking to Copyright Food?
Techdirt is reporting that Malaysia seems to be jumping on the copyright/trademark bandwagon and attempting to protect the "ownership" of certain ethnic foods. Of course, this may just be a massive PR push in an attempt to grab some eyeballs. "Last year, around this time, we noted that the country of Lebanon was trying to claim that it owns hummus and other middle eastern foods, such as falafel, tabouleh and baba gannouj, and that no other country could produce them. It seems that other parts of the world are seeing the same sort of thing, as Malaysia is trying to declare that it owns popular Malaysian dishes, like nasi lemak."
Worry not, there will be cheap knockoffs coming out of China soon enough.
I don't think anyone is going to challenge Scotland's copyright of haggis.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Malaysia is a melange of 5 or more cultures. Good luck.
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Because Malaysia has been claiming certain Indonesian dances are Malaysian.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/09/16/issue-%E2%80%98betawi-group-threatens-harass-malaysians%E2%80%99.html
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
RMS has been making recipe analogies (with respect to free software) for decades. Finally, the until-recently-lawless world of cooking is catching up with the highly developed and modern law-abiding world of software. That will teach our bearded gourmet! There's no free(-as-in-speech) lunch!
Ezekiel 23:20
I hereby copyright the idea of putting chocolate pieces into a cookie -- pizza fillings inside pastry dough available for microwave or oven bake -- and the idea of diet sodas.
let's see how this goes over
"i lost my dignity on a slippery wiener"
It sounds a little silly, but how different is it from other copyrights? I think most people would agree that culinary arts are as as much an exercise in creativity as visual or audio art. A particular combination of available flavors creates whole greater than the sum. Certainly copyrighting a recipe doesn't seem any different to me than a piece of software code. I guess the weak part in Malaysia's claim is that they seem to be trying to retroactively pull public domain works (recipes that have been around for generations) back into the copyrighted realm, but even that is nothing new. If they can get back the rights to their ethnic food, it seems like Beethoven's descendants should be able to continue collecting royalties on his works.
in america, and the recipe copyrights as is evidenced by kernel sanders and his infamous C&D orders against imitators are enforced. look in the drinks book at any applebees bar, youll see copyrights. bonefish copyrights all their sauce recipes and mcdonalds copyrights their secret sauce recipe.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Wrong. Those are designations of origins. Champagne and Parma are actual places. You can make parmesan or champagne, but you can't call it such (in Europe, anyway) because such a designation would denote that the foodstuff actually came from that region, and if it sucked, it would reflect poorly on the region. In the USA, a syrup producer in Kansas could not call their product 'Vermont maple syrup.' Calling a cheese 'Parmesan' or a sparkling wine 'Champagne' is like calling a syrup 'Vermont.'
AFAIK, Hummus, falafel, and so forth are generic names for foods traditional to dozens of countries. Nasi lemak means 'rice in cream' and is also not a designation of origin, therefore, attempting to copyright it is ridiculous and no other country is going to honor Malaysia's demands. Not that we in the US honor Europe's protected designations of origins anyway.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Now getting Mugatu to summon Zoolander...
First those silly and outdated child labor laws, now this.
Yes, but won't you just be hungry again in an hour if you eat one?
-1, Disagree is not a valid option. Troll, Flamebait and Offtopic are not a substitute.
1: Trademark hamburger (cheeseburger too! Fries while I'm at it.)
2: License to McDonald's
3: Profit!
----------
Any problem can be made unsolvable if there are enough meetings made to discuss it.
The more copyrights, patents, trademarks and the like are applied to all aspects of existence the less people will pay attention to them. People will largely treat them as meaningless and tread all over them even in areas generally considered legitimate.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
Same as in the UK. Cornish Pasties, Yorkshire Pudding etc. Just give it another name and you're sorted.
You could make hummous. You just couldn't call it "hummous".
The concept is foreign to the US, but to much older areas, culturally, it's very important. You can't make "Delft" pottery except in Delft. You can't make "champaign" except in the Champaign region of France.
And cheeses, don't get me started.
Of course, that wouldn't apply in the US which doesn't recognize this (since they're ancient names and words, which thus would not be copyrightable or trademarkable, IANAL YMMV) but the US's not the point here.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
I am "steaking" a claim on Prime Rib, in the name of the United States of America! We will not give up this wonderful, artery-clogging delicacy!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8180791.stm We just decided we didn't like it any more :P
As the linked article mentions, the cited article only mentions "copyright" in the headline. Nowhere in the actual article does it mention that Malaysia is making any copyright claims (or with which copyright entity).
Rather, the article details Malaysia's claim that the food originated from Malaysia, not that it's owned by Malaysia. I read it as just a semantic claim.
It's the equivalent to Germany asserting that the hot dog is German.
When people have to campaign for their freedom to share and change recipes, they can simply reverse Stallman's recipe example:
But these freedoms should not be strange to you. At least, not if you cook, because people who cook enjoy the same four freedoms in using recipes.
The freedom to cook the recipe when you want. Thatâ(TM)s freedom zero. The freedom to study the ingredients and how itâ(TM)s done, and then change it. Thatâ(TM)s freedom one. Cooks frequently change recipes. And then the freedom to copy it and hand copies to your friends. Thatâ(TM)s freedom two. And then, freedom three is less frequently exercised because itâ(TM)s more work, but if you cook your version of the recipes for a dinner with your friends, and a friend says "that was great, can I have the recipe?" you can write down your version of the recipe and make a copy for your friend.
Please help publicise swpat.org - the software patents wiki
History, Culture, Government, Land, and anything else that I may or may not have thought of related to Malaysia. Please pay me.
.... ... }
int main (void) {
Tequila can only be named as such if it is made in Jalisco, Mexico (I don't remember if it have to actually be made in the the town of Tequila or it can be anywhere in the state), however there is no restriction on the production, you can actually make tequila, but not name it "Tequila".
DON'T PANIC.
I can think of at least one example of a protected food name which has nothing to do with origin. Feta cheese:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DQA/is_2002_Nov_7/ai_94448045/
Indonesia and Malaysia is currently in a...uh.. copyright war. For a few months, there are some cultural stuff (like dance, show, food) that each claims to origin from themselves. I believe it was started by a Malaysia tourism advertisement that claims certain dance to origin from Malaysia.
If you delay pleasure infinitely, the pleasure will be infinite. (YM)
I don't know how you could blame them. In 1997 a US company called RiceTek patented a strain of Rice they called Basmati, a name the Indians have been using for centuries. All kinds of companies take out defensive patents, where they never intend to collect money from other people, but they don't want to pay for obvious ideas either. There's no reason the same thing wouldn't happen in the copyright arena. From here:
It doesn't seem odd the Malaysians would seek to prevent similar problems. The situation isn't exactly the same, since this is a copyright and RiceTek took out a patent, but I think the business objective is the same.
I'm all for reasonable PDO's where there's a meaningful common generic name for the product; it's basic truth-in-advertising.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
In the USA, a syrup producer in Kansas could not call their product 'Vermont maple syrup.' Calling a cheese 'Parmesan' or a sparkling wine 'Champagne' is like calling a syrup 'Vermont.'
No it's not. The difference is that Vermont maple syrup has never been sold as just "Vermont". It's sold as "Vermont maple syrup". For better or worse "Champagne" has become a genericized trademark. Nobody (besides a few wine snobs and angry Frenchmen) is going to look at you funny if you request 'champagne' instead of 'sparkling wine'.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
I don't know about you but I'd take some Vermont on my pancakes any day...
Wrong. Those are designations of origins. Champagne and Parma are actual places. You can make parmesan or champagne, but you can't call it such (in Europe, anyway) because such a designation would denote that the foodstuff actually came from that region, and if it sucked, it would reflect poorly on the region.
I wonder if there's any laws in Mexico (or US) for the product known as Tequila. Contrast Tequila with mezcal, and only the latter ever contains a "worm", etc.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
Techdirt is reporting that Malaysia seems to be jumping on the copyright/trademark bandwagon and attempting to protect the "ownership" of certain ethnic foods. Of course, this may just be a massive PR push in an attempt to grab some eyeballs.
Now, I've heard of some weird foreign foods, but is that some kind of Malaysian delicacy?
In the US, we sidestep silly restrictions such as your "Vermont syrup" example. Wisconsin cheese is constantly being trucked into California, taken out of the boxes, dropped into other boxes labeled "Packaged in California" with no hint of it's origins.
Customers are suckers, aren't they?
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Actually, the USA partially does so; the EU's gripe is that the USA doesn't honor them enough. But basically, in the USA:
Are you adequate?
Sparkling wine is correct - though you it's mostly the French-owned companies (like Chandon) that call it that, plenty of the CA wineries call their sparking wine "champagne" (no capital C at least...)
But "powdered cheese"?!? You my friend, have clearly never made it past basic Kraft cheese food products. Have you ever had good Parmesean reggiano? Or in your culinary world, does Velveeta == cheddar?
There's a perfectly decent generic term for sparkling wine. Talking about grana cheese generically is considerably more difficult, though, at least if you want people to understand you.
Are you adequate?
What's wrong with "Parmesan-style", "Champagne-style", etc.
You could require that the "style" be in the same size and font as the other part of the name on the packaging. You could also require that the actual origin be near the name: Parmesan-style cheese from Champagne.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
It turns out now there's a Grana Padano protected designation, so you can't call that kind of cheese grana anymore.
Are you adequate?
By definition, Champagne (the beverage) comes exclusively from the Champagne region of France. Everything else is "Sparkling white wine".
The United States have recognized the exclusive nature of this name, yet maintain a legal structure that allows longtime domestic producers of sparkling wine to continue to use the term "champagne" under specific circumstances. Some states have laws banning this usage.
If, for decades if not centuries, Maple syrup was only available from Vermont, from specific Maple trees whose export was banned, using a technique that was a secret known only to people from Vermont, as was the case for Champagne, then Maple syrup might be known as "Vermont".
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
I'd take some Vermont on my pancakes any day
Would you like the sandy loam or the loose clay?
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Although forces of evil like Disney would like to have it otherwise, copyrights are still for a limited period of time. In the U.S. this is even spelled out in our Constitution, with the copyrighted material them passing into Public Domain. This article is talking about traditional foods, not some newfangled "Invention" (which might be covered by shorter lasting patents than longer lasting copyright). So even if the concept of copyright on food were valid (and I believe it is bogus), wouldn't these foods have passed into Public Domain long ago?
Alternately, can a claim of copyright be made by a country? Wouldn't a copyright claim have to be made by an author? Clearly the government of these countries are not the authors of these foods, so they have no copyright claim on them. It is more reasonable to assume that the real author wanted their intellectual property to pass into public domain than to fall into the hands of politicians.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Uh, this has nothing to do with copyright. The TRIPS agreement formally established geographical indicators as protected intellectual property about 15 years ago. It's similar to a trademark, as it is an assurance of quality and consistency of product. As others above pointed out, the same protection exists for Champagne, Cognac, Parmigiano, Basmati, and several hundred others. I can make no assessment of whether this instance is justified or not, but the linked blog post (and most of the responses here) is kneejerk and uninformed.
Your own link contradicts you. Champagne has never been a trademark; it's a protected designation of origin.
Are you adequate?
This system seems to me to adequately protect consumers and producers, while acknowledging the fact that certain designations have become semi-generic. In America, people do not associate Champagne or Parmesan with a particular region, but with a particular taste or style. Champagne is synonymous with sparkling wine, labeling it 'California Champagne' removes any uncertainty as to origins while using a word that consumers are familiar with. While one could call Champagne 'sparkling wine,' what could one even call Parmesan except Parmesan without confusing the consumer even more? Stinky hard Italian style cow's milk cheese?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
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Bourbon is not a protected geographical indicator, it is a style of whiskey. Jack Daniel's is not a Bourbon whiskey, it is a Tennessee whiskey. It tastes nothing like Bourbons of the same price range.
n/t
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
That's like saying an American company can't sell French Fries if they were made in Idaho. I can call the syrup I make in my backyard Vermont Syrup all I want.
Not without a law suit you can't. French Fries are a recipe, not an ingredient. Try selling Idaho russet potatoes that aren't from Idaho and see how long you last.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
A Philly cheese-steak is a recipe not an ingredient. As I mentioned, you can't claim a syrup is from Vermont if it isn't. These food producing regions always have local quality control boards that ensure products from those regions meet certain standards. Someone from outside those regions could tarnish the name of the region by producing inferior products while piggy backing on the popularity of the quality controlled ingredients that actually come from the place and pass the local quality control standards.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
The recipe for Stilton Cheese is well known, but you can only call it Stilton if it has been made in the three Counties of Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire. It cannot be made in the village of Stilton that gave it its name since, at the time the EU came up with the definition, it had been forgotten that it had ever been produced there!
So eat all you want, but in the end you'll be paying me.... muahhahahahaha!!! 1 million dollars.
Hope is the currency of fools
You're not generally allowed to mislabel your products in the USA to make consumers believe that they come from some region that they do not, especially if you do so to mislead consumers into paying a higher price. There exist specific exceptions in regional wine names that are recognized as semi-generics with special rules, and some regional product names that are seen as generics ("parmesan"). You can take your Wisconsin cheese and label it "Parmesan," and nobody will go after you in the United States; but if you label your $5/lb Wisconsin cheese as "Parmigiano Reggiano," that's not cool.
Are you adequate?
I find it interesting that Malaysia would be claiming there should be copyright protection for foods, when there isn't any kind of copyright protection for anything else in that country/region -- not in any real sense.
This isn't a troll -- just try going to any market in Malaysia. You'll find whole tables of knockoff DVDs, knockoff Paul Frank T-shirts, knockoff shoes, knockoff handbags ... the average person sees nothing wrong with it.
I once went to a DVD store in a mall on the island of Penang, off the west coast of Malaysia, probably around 2002. I mean this was a real store with one of those roll-down metal cages that go in front of the plate glass windows when they close shop, inside a real mall with a food court and everything. This store had one small bookcase full of legitimate, imported American DVDs. The entire rest of the store was given over to knockoffs. You could get DVD-5 copies for about $5 and the DVD-9s were about $8. They were well aware what they were doing; they even had DVD players and TVs on hand so you could double-check the video quality of the copies you were buying. I picked up a set of the original Star Wars trilogy on DVD-9, plus a copy of Raiders of the Lost Ark. In passing, I told one of the kids working there (he was wearing a polo shirt with the store's logo on it) that you couldn't buy any of these movies in America (at that time, none of them was available on DVD). He looked at me like I'd just told him I'd never seen rice before.
Mind you, technically it was all illegal. Malaysia actually seemed to have a pretty strong force of "copyright cops" that would do sweeps for pirated DVDs. The problem was that copyright law was one of those laws that was so poorly respected by the average citizen -- basically, everybody living in Malaysia had broken it at least once, and probably did so routinely -- that there was absolutely no respect for enforcement, which in turn leads to corruption. Everybody involved in the knock-off trade seemed to have a contact who would tip them off when a sting was about to happen. I met some Australian tourists who were hoping to go to the DVD store I mentioned, but when they went (on a Wednesday afternoon) it was closed. Apparently they had been warned not to open that day. Similarly, even guys who were hawking their wares on blankets at the night markets would occasionally get calls on their cell phones, then immediately roll up their bundles and walk away while customers were still waving money.
Still, no doubt this effort by the Malaysian government does a couple things:
Personally, though, I doubt the average Malaysian cares much more about it than Americans care when we find out our home city is now "the sister city of Vladivostok." Sounds great, but what difference does it make to me?
Breakfast served all day!
That decision, which only holds weight in the EU, comes from a case that is, in my mind, legitimate. Belgium was selling a cow's milk cheese as feta, which is totally wrong. I'm pretty sure 'feta' is semi-generic in the US. But it sure as heck better be a salty, white sheep's milk cheese and not some cow's milk knock off. Blech.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Does anyone but me have a problem with the title "Malaysia Seeking to Copyright Food?" right above a picture of a human foot?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana." --Groucho Marx
This is probably a move to protect itself from someone else doing the same. Some time ago, a US based Yoga teacher tried to patent some yogic positions, and there was a furor in India for obvious reasons. It happened again for Basmati rice which is grown in India - someone from another country patented it. I'm guessing the Malaysians are doing this so that the same thing doesn't happen to their foods.
Seems to me they are actually trying to claim a patent but calling it a "copyright". Won't work either way.
We'll just make very slight veriations, and call them "blowjus", "itsafel", "bouleh bouleh", and so on. Let them try to do anything about it.
The whole idea is ridiculous.
Of course, mexico is big on corruption.
Let me get you a "facial tissue" to help with that runny nose.
Oh wait, of course I meant "Kleenex".
With the first link, the chain is forged.
In England, we call them "chips". The things you call chips, we call "crisps".
Doesn't have to be made in Jalisco, just the blue agave is sourced from Jalisco. Use another type of agave in Jalisco and then it's Mezcal.
There aren't many dishes invented in America unless you include Mexico. Certainly none of the ones that you list are American.
We need to get an embargo on them pronto.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
The only thing that they should be allowed to own in this regard would be the name of a food item prefixed by their country name, e.g. Lebanese Hummus Other countries could have their own variations and the consumer could chose the "authentic" version of their choice.
Since when has there been a world-wide "copyright" anyway?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
No, you would patent trademarking.
Well, within Mexico, tequila can only be made in the state of Jalisco and a small portion of the state of Guanajuato. It's also only to be made of blue Weber agave, which is a type of maguey. Tequila is a subset of the mezcales, and there are other mezcales, like bacanora. Other mezcales can be made with other types of maguey.
Internationally, "tequila" was granted an OAC in 1977, but the USA doesn't recognize OAC as pointed out in so many other posts. Instead, the USA (and presumably other countries) depend on trade agreements to protect specific names, and that's the case with tequila in the USA.
--Jim (me)
Look, that's just putting a band-aid on the problem. You can't just xerox a product to make an identical copy.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Actually no
French Fries are actually Belgium.
And Pizza as you know it, is actually American.
And in a tiny little stub of Guanajuato, too. No, it doesn't have to me made in the town of Tequila. Penjamo, Guanajuato makes a tequila that I'm very fond of, for example.
--Jim (me)
Yes, IIRC in both countries Tequila must be derived at least 50% (100% if marked "100% de Agave", which is the only kind worth buying) from the syrup of the blue agave, grown in the state of Jalisco.
I'm not sure about mezcal.
And we look forward to more occasions when some kinds of food will be illegal to sell or serve outside of their native location.
For example, we cannot wait for the time when Yorkshire Pudding will vanish from all menus not in Yorkshire. When the Melton Mowbray pie will cease to exist except in the town of that name. When Brie will be confined to the town of Brie, and not Brie sur Seine either. When the Frankfurter will be unobtainable except by travelling to Frankfurt.
When the London Irish rugby club will only be able to have players who are both Irish and Londoners, and the Royal Irish Guards will consist only of men who are both Royal and Irish. A rare and distinctive combination.
What we need is truth in advertising and respect for local traditions. Cheshire cheese for instance, why should we have any uncertainty about where that was made. Or the even more disgracefully abused Cheddar. The fine Cheddar Gorge is the only place on the planet which should be permitted to make or serve it. Go through your supermarket shelves, you North Americans, and remove all that orange goop you have there. There is only one true Cheddar, and we Cheddarians have it.
And the Norwalk Island Sharpie shall never sail outside the sacred waters of Norwalk, nor shall the Cornish Shrimper ever fish in the waters off Devon. Yessir, the world is going to be a different and better place from here on in.
Thank goodness, we will no longer be obliged to see the New York Times on sale wherever we travel in the US, and the International Herald Tribune will only be available internationally.
Some of us cannot wait!
Yeah, let's see China knock those off!
Are they going to go to war with my country?
Or is my country going to expel me? (And the thousand others who are also doing it.)
I don't think so.
So nothing is going to happen. The foreign minister is going to demand me to be punished.
My foreign minister will laugh into his face.
Their head of state will protest.
My head of state will laugh in his face. Harder.
Their state will declare us "evil"
We well laugh even harder at the insanity of a crazy state.
People will forget it.
The end.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
...Sweden is under attack from the Narns, over Breen/Swedish Meatballs.
Ed R.Zahurak
You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.
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What we call "pizza" certainly is, as Sabs also pointed out.
The Italian ancestor of it is a far different animal.
This is not a copyright or patent issue, nor is it strictly a trademark issue either. It is the seldom-referenced fourth category of "intellectual property," geographical indicators.
The fourth category is trade secrets. Geographical indicators are so close in intent to trademarks that some, such as "GROWN IN IDAHO" seal, have actually been registered.
This is essentially a trademark issue rather than an 'ownership' issue. Basically, if you sell a food product type under a name assumed from another geographic region, the argument is that you dilute the brand name if it's not 'really' from that geographic location. Champagne originated in France, so they fought for that trade mark. California wineries did the same thing ensuring that only wine that originates from Napa Valley can be labeled 'Napa Valley'.
While it's kind of dumb to say, the open source analogy here is actually somewhat humorous -- if you fork a project, generally you don't use the same name. I suppose you could, but in general the distinctive new name is used to set you apart from the original project. Imagine 100 forks of the Linux kernel each named 'Linux' with slightly different code bases with completely different hierarchies of submit control -- only one of them really would be the original Linux. Wouldn't you want to enforce that distinction with a trademark? ... Oh wait.. They do!
Same basic idea, except with food names.
Chances are, you're not buying Prime at the supermarket.
Some regional supermarket chains sell Sterling Silver brand beef. Sterling Silver is either Prime or the top tier of Choice. (The difference is that Prime has more marbling than Choice.) But you're right that many people think Choice-AAA rib is good enough.
Toss some chickpeas into this blender with some garlic, olive oil, lemon juice. Add in some tahini and some spices. Blend and we have... copyright infringement?!!
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
"The recipe for Stilton Cheese [stiltoncheese.com] is well known, but you can only call it Stilton if it has been made in the three Counties of Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire. It cannot be made in the village of Stilton that gave it its name since, at the time the EU came up with the definition, it had been forgotten that it had ever been produced there!"
But wait, there is more.
- it can only be produced in the three Counties of Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire
- it must be made from locally produced milk that has been pasteurised before use
- it can only be made in a cylindrical shape
- it must be allowed to form its own coat or crust
- it must never be pressed and
- it must have the magical blue veins radiating from the centre of the cheese
Stilton actually contains magic. Stilton cheese is awesome!
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Not quite. You do have to give it a name that's not so ridiculous that people will actually use the name you're trying to avoid. Some mob here in Australia has been trying for about 10 years to market cornish pasties under the name "Tiddly Oggie". To this day, I've never heard anyone else call them anything other than a pastie.
Are you listening to me, Ferguson Plarre? It's not a tiddly-anything, it's a fucking pastie! The battle is over - you lost!
EU take note as well. You can legislate what's printed on the label, but you can't legislate what we think. The label might say "sparkling Pinot Noir Chardonnay from the Barossa Valley", but you can't fool me - I know it's really "Champagne".
Ahh - My eye!
The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
A food blogger posted a variation on a potato salad recipe that she liked. She attributed the original source even though the recipe was altered. The source of the original recipe (Cook's Illustrated/Cook's Country) countered with a cease and desist notice claiming "no modifications allowed. Our recipes are tested up to 100 times for a reason (i.e. because they work)."
So let's say you get a really good pasta recipe from Cook's but you don't like the broccoli that's in it. You can't replace it with snow peas. After all, they tested their recipe and it is perfect so you can't improve upon it. Or if that "perfect" recipe calls for sausage and you're a vegetarian. No leaving that sausage out! Cook it the "Cook's perfect" way and like it! And Flying Spaghetti Monster help you if you post a variation on that pasta recipe, even if it is radically altered.
Here's a blog post about the incident: http://maurarose.livejournal.com/tag/cooks+country It looks like the original blog has gone invite only (possibly in part due to Cook's threatening to sue if they posted any modified recipes). I'm not sure what happened with the cease and desist notice.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Clearly, the only way to honor these deep cultural traditions is to put a video camera in the kitchen of every American, and send in the cops the moment anyone makes tabouli.
...then food could possibly one day be copyrighted on the genetic or even molecular level. I wrote a story which hints at this a short while ago.
This conversation is giving me a headache. Anyone got an aspirin ?
Perhaps the Malaysian government would like me to send them back the nesi lemak I had for lunch today, since they claim it is theirs? I expect it to be ready to... ummmm... "ship" by morning.
Insightful and funny are really the same thing, except one has a punch line.
As an Englishman I herby claim for my nation copyright on Bangers and Mash, Fish n' Chips, and boiled vegatables that have been cooked so long they taste awful.
isn't that Monsanto's MO.
Patent the food crop and sue anyone that grows it, right?
"Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -- Homer Simpson
What really surprises me is that Malaysia is trying to copyright foods that were originally NOT from that region. Nasi lemak is only partly Malaysian - the rice made with screwpine leaves is unique to the region. But trying to copyright the spicy sauce(sambal) or the fried chicken that comes with it is ridiculous! Even the word "sambal" is ripped straight from Tamil, a South Indian language. Most Malaysian cuisine is a straight rip from Chinese and Indian cuisine, from the simplest sambal right up to the dishes mentioned in the article such as laksa and Hainanese chicken rice. Having spent my teenage years there, it is kind of ironic that a country where the latest movies are sold at street corners for a mere $1 per DVD(buy 5 get 1 free!) wants to copyright food that its immigrants brought in.
I can echo your statement for Thailand as well - except that I don't think there are these copyright cop sweeps as you've described in Malaysia. Actually, it was quite refreshing - you are essentially free to do as you wish there, other than actual harmful crimes like robbery (of physical items) and violence.
The point of my reply, though, is to point out that this kind of institutionalized bootlegging exists in North America as well - if you're ever in Toronto check out the Pacific Mall - "North America's Largest Indoor Asian Mall" (http://www.pacificmalltoronto.com/). There are at least ten or so separate shops selling bootleg DVDs and CDs. A lot of it is Asian stuff that isn't officially distributed in the US or Canada, yes, but easily 25% of it is mainstream Hollywood movies. It's a weird place... it's a nice mall in an upscale suburb in Canada, but with blatant bootlegging all over the place! Actually, there are a lot of official releases as well (of both Asian and Hollywood stuff), but I'm not sure how many people actually buy it (same deal as in any marketplace in Asia).
I don't know if perhaps they have the same thing going on, where they close down on certain days to avoid getting busted, but I've been there several times and the same shops have always been there and are always open.
Baked Potato Sandwich. I own it. Copy it and be sent to prison.
China has an interesting version of this. There are 52 minority ethnic groups in China, remember, 52 exactly. What the government has done is allow those groups to get a kind of royalty fee for distribution of those ethnic foods in non-ethnic regions. For example, if a big restaurant wants to serve 'GuiZhou Fish' then the peoples (government, some organization, I'm not sure...) of GuiZhou get some cut of the profits from that food. An interesting concept. Might serve them well. I can see no less reason why it's appropriate than any other intellectual property. If you concede that a product is simply the sum of parts + assembly, then why not ingredient + recipe?
I guess you skipped the part which said "only ... in certain regions of Greece will be allowed to be described as feta".
So the "feta" description is owned by Greece. Other countries in the EU cannot produce feta, even if they use milk from sheep.
Malaysia isn't actually claiming copyright on food. The use of the term "copyright" here is nothing more than typical Slashdot journalistic standards. What actually has happened is that some minister of something in Malaysia claimed... something over some specific dishes or recipes. What the hell that claim is, what acts are supposed to constitute violations of it, and what exactly the guy thinks should happen to people who violate it, well, that's something that's far from clear.
Are you adequate?
That exact cheese is made in dozens of countries. Only in Greece is it called 'feta.' The most common name for the cheese is some variant of 'sirenje.' So call it that and be done with it. Feta means Greek cheese, even though it isn't a specific place-name.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Indeed, that is the reason why the Malaysia claim is not like Protected Designations of Origin. It is worth mentioning, though, that Europe, the stronghold of PDO laws, works the same way as the USA in this regard. An analogue to a Philly Cheesesteak in Europe would be something like Paella Valenciana--a dish whose name incorporates the name of a place (Valencia). That doesn't get legal protection in the EU--a restaurant outside Valencia can call its own dish a "Paella Valenciana" if it wishes.
Are you adequate?
Okay Malaysia, I'll play your game. Instead of calling it nasi lemak, I'll call it "creamy rice," and my customers will just think it's some American invention. The word Malaysia will never enter their thoughts. They'll never wonder how good the food might taste if they actually visited Malaysia. Instead of being an advertisement of your country and culture, it'll just be a source of profit for me.
...Nasi Kangkang
I'm sure your wife or girlfriend will appreciated it.
[End Of Line]
MMMMMMmmmmmm, grab a handful of those spicy Malaysian eyeballs... the snack you can't sneak up on!
The seeds for the grains are all already patented.. so fuck a bunch of copyright... Hard to make the intellectually copyrighted food without the physically patented hardware, the non-reproducing seeds.
Oh, maybe we could get a licensing wars going too! No, you can't use our proprietary wheat, corn, rice, soy, or whatever because you have previously released your recipes as open source!
So, then we get an open source program from an Heirloom Seed program going and the big ConGloms say we can't use any of their fertilizers or insect control methods and...
oh crap
someone wants the baker to pay a royalty anytime a passer-by smells the fresh baked bread...
Jeez that's all so depressing...
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
If you could get decent maple syrup outside of Vermont you would call it Canadian.
Does that mean that I could be sued for taking a shit after eating a Malay curry, on the basis that I'm making a "derivative work"?
Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker
...when people view copyright as a fundamental human right, rather than a limited legal right created for particular purposes.
http://outcampaign.org/
Much of the food that Malaysia is trying to copyright include dishes that Singaporeans have considered all along to be their own. For example, Hainanese chicken rice (which was apparently created by a guy from Hainan who set up shop in Singapore), "all kinds of laksa" (essentially noodles in spicy soup with prawns) and even chilli crab, which is apparently the dish the island is best known for (and never Malaysia). Many Singaporeans here believe this to be a response by the Tourism Minister to recover her country's injured pride after having been given a kicking by Indonesia over the dance incident.
Chilis are not native to Malaysia. They came from Mexico with the Spanish ships in the 1500s or 1600s.
Mexicans were cooking with chilis when Cortez & Co. arrived in the early 1500s, including cooking crabs with chilis.
Mexico has prior art and IP claims on the concept of cooking with chilis, chocolate, vanilla, avocados, tomatoes, turkeys, and corn. Peru has IP claims on cooking with potatoes. This means Europe has been stealing their cultural and culinary heritage for centuries. REPARATIONS ARE DUE!
The champagne denomination describes a kind of drink that can be only made in the Champagne region.
No other part of the world has the same micro climate and soil, both of which influence the quality of the drink heavily (anybody that has tasted any other sparkling wines like Cava, who actually follows very closely the Champagne region methods, knows that it makes a difference, and prices reflect this).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
In the Western world we patent food instead. See Monsanto.
All this confusion over IP terminology...
Recipes can be copyrighted (the prose/description at least, not merely the ingredient list). To claim the kind of rights they're talking about here would require a patent. Of course, qualifying as novel and non-obvious would be difficult.